View Full Version : CPF ups Min Sum to $148k and MinMedSave to $45.5k (increased of $11k in total)
http://http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/cpf-minimum-sums-retirement-and-medisave-contribution-ceiling-raised-2
By Poon Chian Hui
The minimum sum for the Central Provident Fund (CPF) and Medisave will be raised from July 1.
Account holders who turn 55 between July 1 and June 30 next year will need to set aside a minimum sum of $148,000 in their CPF retirement account. This is up from the $139,000 required last year.
Meanwhile, the minimum sum for healthcare savings scheme Medisave will be raised to $40,500, up from the current $38,500. This is the amount that a person turning 55 has to set aside for healthcare expenses in his old age.
In a statement released on Tuesday, the CPF Board said that the maximum amount of money one can have in his Medisave account, known as the Medisave Contribution Ceiling (MCC), would also be increased accordingly to $45,500. It is now at $43,500. It added that the CPF minimum sums have been adjusted over the years to account for inflation, longer lifespans and rising expectations of quality of life after retirement.
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IMHO: That is a $11K in total. ($9K for MS and $2K for MMS). Approx ballpark figure for discussion, Salary $10K pm, $1.8K to OA+SA+MedSave. Takes about 10mths to catch up with the shortfall of $11K. For those earning below $4k pm, the light is not at the end of the tunnel yet.:banghead:
Difficult to catch up coz by the time you close the gap the minimum sum will increase again.
Good. More money for sovereign funds to invest.
Invest or cover up losses?
Good. More money for sovereign funds to invest.
Invest or cover up losses?
Invest of course. Losses is a dirty word :tsk-tsk: :p
Slaried men should also have their salaries adjusted to offset "future inflation". By the same formula, our salaries will be increased $2k to $4k per mth in the following year !.:doh:
starrynight
07-05-13, 22:43
Really makes you wonder if the money is still there :confused:
Already know of some young civil servant who got an automatic pay rise recently of about $600 with a base pay of $3000.
Slaried men should also have their salaries adjusted to offset "future inflation". By the same formula, our salaries will be increased $2k to $4k per mth in the following year !.:doh:
It is increasing at a rate of about $8k every year, except for 2009 which was the year of economic recession and failed investments. This leads one to suspect another partial reason of the increase.
Year/ Min Sum in 2003 dollar/ Min Sum after adjusting for inflation/ % increase
1-Jul-03 $80,000 80000
1-Jul-04 $84,000 84500 5.6%
1-Jul-05 $88,000 90,000 6.5%
1-Jul-06 $92,000 94,600 5.1%
1-Jul-07 $96,000 99600 5.3%
1-Jul-08 $100,000 106000 6.4%
1-Jul-09 $104,000 117000 10.4%
1-Jul-10 $108,000 123000 5.1%
1-Jul-11 $112,000 131000 6.5%
1-Jul-12 $113,000 139000 6.1%
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/reach-55/Reach55-2.htm
55 yo, we will all surely reach/meet, but for MS, most will never meet the requirement !
thomastansb
08-05-13, 00:11
They might as well make it 10 millions. No one can take it out anyway.
Allthepies
08-05-13, 07:32
I don't really care. depend on one self to make money, I don't beg from people or government to feed me.
but the forced savings really good for the majority of the people. They don't save, indulge in gambling, womanizing, instant gratification when they are working.
The_Way_I_See_It
08-05-13, 07:47
I don't really care. depend on one self to make money, I don't beg from people or government to feed me.
but the forced savings really good for the majority of the people. They don't save, indulge in gambling, womanizing, instant gratification when they are working.
" but the forced savings really good for the majority of the people. They don't save, indulge in gambling, womanizing, instant gratification when they are working." -
that;s true till a point of time when they are economic productively BUT when the folks are above 60 for goodness sake, but don't locked their money b'cos they do need their money to survive when you don't have a welfare system for the elderly , and don't give the crap reasoning like people in their 60s " indulge in gambling, womanizing, instant gratification "
Keep moving the goal post only imply a lack of faith and trust and a hidden agenda. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
" but the forced savings really good for the majority of the people. They don't save, indulge in gambling, womanizing, instant gratification when they are working." -
that;s true till a point of time when they are economic productively BUT when the folks are above 60 for goodness sake, but don't locked their money b'cos they do need their money to survive when you don't have a welfare system for the elderly , and don't give the crap reasoning like people in their 60s " indulge in gambling, womanizing, instant gratification "
Keep moving the goal post only imply a lack of faith and trust and a hidden agenda. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
i tot goal post moving dun affect retirees.
only us. amt of cpf avail to buy hse remain stagnant over the yrs becoz MS keep gg up but salary cap and contrib rate remain same. wan to buy hse must grow cash
The_Way_I_See_It
08-05-13, 08:47
i tot goal post moving dun affect retirees.
only us. amt of cpf avail to buy hse remain stagnant over the yrs becoz MS keep gg up but salary cap and contrib rate remain same. wan to buy hse must grow cash
"i tot goal post moving dun affect retirees. - you are probably too young to see this.
:Goal post moving " in the sense that the legitimate withdrawal age is "moving from 55 to 62, then to 85 .... CPF annuity Life in drips and drap". Crap Crap Crap !!
Did'nt you hear Raymond Yap (age 66 ) at Hong LIm Park challenging the minitster on National TV to return him his migre CPF LIfe savings. He challenge the gahment to gurantee that he lived to 85 or longer like some old non-working MP still receiving citizens stipends ..What Raymund is saying is that the Gahment won't return him his money when he is still alive .:banghead: :banghead:
"i tot goal post moving dun affect retirees. - you are probably too young to see this.
:Goal post moving " in the sense that the legitimate withdrawal age is "moving from 55 to 62, then to 85 .... CPF annuity Life in drips and drap". Crap Crap Crap !!
Did'nt you hear Raymond Yap (age 66 ) at Hong LIm Park challenging the minitster on National TV to return him his migre CPF LIfe savings. He challenge the gahment to gurantee that he lived to 85 or longer like some old non-working MP still receiving citizens stipends ..What Raymund is saying is that the Gahment won't return him his money when he is still alive .:banghead: :banghead:
yah, totally agree. by the time i retire.. oops.. maybe i will never retire.. the goal post already past 100. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
thats y better retire now n die early a happy camper than a sad withered penniless soul at 99 yrs leasehold who despite slogging to contribute to this economy got no peace of mind till d day.
No you are wrong. They tell you that you are ungrateful for saying that!
You should thank them profusely for helping you to safe-guard your ever increasing min sum of money in CPF Life so that you will not squander them on womanizing, expensive luxuries, holidays, blah blah so that you have enough money to live until 99 years old! Don't hope for the state to help you because they don't provide benefits!
Oh wait a minute, isn't GST vouchers, and workfare etc a form of benefits as well? :beats-me-man:
thats y better retire now n die early a happy camper than a sad withered penniless soul at 99 yrs leasehold who despite slogging to contribute to this economy got no peace of mind till d day.
Can see:scared-5: , Cannot use:(
Give up citizenship can withdraw all the CPF. can retire elsewhere.
an interesting item.
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/Overseas/LivO9.htm
Refund of CPF
If you are an ex-Singapore Citizen or Singapore Permanent Resident (PR) and wish to return as a PR again, you would need to refund the full CPF amount you had previously withdrawn. A Letter of Clearance would then be issued to you for your submission to the Immigration and Checkpoint Authority (ICA) for completion of the PR formalities."
Question: Only refund full amount? No need to pay interest on the CPF amount withdrawn?
The_Way_I_See_It
08-05-13, 10:00
Give up citizenship can withdraw all the CPF. can retire elsewhere.
an interesting item.
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/Overseas/LivO9.htm
Refund of CPF
If you are an ex-Singapore Citizen or Singapore Permanent Resident (PR) and wish to return as a PR again, you would need to refund the full CPF amount you had previously withdrawn. A Letter of Clearance would then be issued to you for your submission to the Immigration and Checkpoint Authority (ICA) for completion of the PR formalities."
Question: Only refund full amount? No need to pay interest on the CPF amount withdrawn?
Now you see why those discerning those FT/PR would die die remain as PR status and not converting to Full CitizenSHIT ... The gahment have shot their own UNTHINKING Foot !!!
B'cos PR WILL Not have this disadvantage .. and PR remains a PREMIUM paper over CITIZENSHIT ..as PR you can Come and GO ..and RETURN to this Pro-foreign aligned policy country.. Only one in the world .. That's why we are truely indeed UNIQUELY SINGAPORE ..
and it villify the fact why we are unconsciously becoming 2nd class 3rd class people in our own homeland (need to do NS to protect who ???, BTW why do we need to buy 71 F135 for $9 Billion ?? for what n who ??).. and if we have 50% foreigners in our homeland in 2030 (really for very own economic survival ??? ) . Myopic ..What Pledge do you want to your children, grand children to say (sorri utter ) in school in 2030 ?? After all it is just an aspiration and can do away with ??
Are you still as patrotic as a Singaporean in 2030 or a bunch of economic strugglers fighting against a bunch of PR/FT in your homeland ?
The people in Hong LIm Park are there for this Raison d'être - are we still Singaporeans ??? :doh:
I don't really care. depend on one self to make money, I don't beg from people or government to feed me.
but the forced savings really good for the majority of the people. They don't save, indulge in gambling, womanizing, instant gratification when they are working.
agree:47::47::47:
I don't really care. depend on one self to make money, I don't beg from people or government to feed me.
but the forced savings really good for the majority of the people. They don't save, indulge in gambling, womanizing, instant gratification when they are working.
i don't agree with the assumption that retirees use their CPF to gamble, womanize, etc etc. at least 50% of the population are women and i don't think they fool around largely
i don't agree that we need the government to force us to save, in the guise of protecting us. if so, why can't it be fixed deposit, govt bonds? why CPF?
there can be ways to do this
1. voluntary opt-in system
2. provide incentives for those who opt-in
don't keep taking our retirements to go fund some mumbo jumbo temasek/GIC investment and please, don't think we are dumbos to believe the lies
and to cite another example, use of CPF monies for education
1. Parent pay for child's education from CPF = child taking a loan from parent
2. Parent decides it is his/her responsibility to provide for the child and decides that child does not need to pay back
3. CPF does not allow and requires child to pay back plus interest into parent's account
4. This raises the question = does the parent actually own the money in his/her account? tranposing into another scenario, I lend Ah Meng money (taken from my bank account) to gamble and Ah Meng doesn't want to pay me back. Out of goodwill, I cancel the debt out of friendship - can the bank insist Ah Meng on paying back the debt?
5. CPF claims that the child needs to pay back the capital, plus interest, due to its opportunity loss. Sorry, who's loss is it - parent's or CPF? This brings us back to the question - do I actually own the money in my CPF account?
and to cite another example, use of CPF monies for education
1. Parent pay for child's education from CPF = child taking a loan from parent
2. Parent decides it is his/her responsibility to provide for the child and decides that child does not need to pay back
3. CPF does not allow and requires child to pay back plus interest into parent's account
4. This raises the question = does the parent actually own the money in his/her account? tranposing into another scenario, I lend Ah Meng money (taken from my bank account) to gamble and Ah Meng doesn't want to pay me back. Out of goodwill, I cancel the debt out of friendship - can the bank insist Ah Meng on paying back the debt?
5. CPF claims that the child needs to pay back the capital, plus interest, due to its opportunity loss. Sorry, who's loss is it - parent's or CPF? This brings us back to the question - do I actually own the money in my CPF account?
Funny thing is that CPF matters are never debated in ParLiament and out of the blue become a new law ??? No one can ask, no one can refute , no (white, green or tissue ?) paper on it, no proposal , just a announcement by CPF Board, just like that also can . Uniquely Singapore:doh: :doh: :doh:
......
4. This raises the question = does the parent actually own the money in his/her account? tranposing into another scenario, I lend Ah Meng money (taken from my bank account) to gamble and Ah Meng doesn't want to pay me back. Out of goodwill, I cancel the debt out of friendship - can the bank insist Ah Meng on paying back the debt?
5. CPF claims that the child needs to pay back the capital, plus interest, due to its opportunity loss. Sorry, who's loss is it - parent's or CPF? This brings us back to the question - do I actually own the money in my CPF account?
Sorry. you dont owe the money once the money is in cpf. you only have a claim against the cpf.
similarly when you deposit money in a bank, the money is no longer yours. it belongs to the bank. you become a creditor to the bank.
if you notice, cpf can only be used to buy paper stuff and immovable goods like real estate. you cannot use cpf to buy movable real goods like physical gold.
Sorry. you dont owe the money once the money is in cpf. you only have a claim against the cpf.
similarly when you deposit money in a bank, the money is no longer yours. it belongs to the bank. you become a creditor to the bank.
if you notice, cpf can only be used to buy paper stuff and immovable goods like real estate. you cannot use cpf to buy movable real goods like physical gold.
this is the fundamental key - we are creditors to the bank. i can withdraw my money anytime i want, transfer anytime i want, or leave it there. i can do whatever i want with my money and the bank can't do shit about it. remember joker burning up his pile of cash in TDK?
if i am a creditor to CPF, then why should CPF impose rules, increasingly and restrictively, on me?
so in the case of using CPF for education, CPF does NOT give out loans, but it's a deduction from specific CPF accounts. hence, it is clear that the child does NOT owe a debt to CPF.
darkseed73
08-05-13, 15:08
Sorry. you dont owe the money once the money is in cpf. you only have a claim against the cpf.
similarly when you deposit money in a bank, the money is no longer yours. it belongs to the bank. you become a creditor to the bank.
if you notice, cpf can only be used to buy paper stuff and immovable goods like real estate. you cannot use cpf to buy movable real goods like physical gold.
This is an interesting point of view.
I once discuss with a US friend regarding their social security and medicial fees - foreigners actually thinks CPF is a great way to protect citizen from becoming a burden to the country.
Anyways, if I am a creditor and I "use" my own money to buy real estate. Why must I pay CPF interest?? I find this part insane.
Anyways, if I am a creditor and I "use" my own money to buy real estate. Why must I pay CPF interest?? I find this part insane.
precisely, it's BS.
this is the fundamental key - we are creditors to the bank. i can withdraw my money anytime i want, transfer anytime i want, or leave it there. i can do whatever i want with my money and the bank can't do shit about it. remember joker burning up his pile of cash in TDK?
if i am a creditor to CPF, then why should CPF impose rules, increasingly and restrictively, on me?
so in the case of using CPF for education, CPF does NOT give out loans, but it's a deduction from specific CPF accounts. hence, it is clear that the child does NOT owe a debt to CPF.
No. banks and cpf are the same. the only reason you can withdraw money anytime you want from banks is because the government/banks see no reason to restrict you yet. if the government/banks want to restrict you, they can pass some regulations, just like they did with cpf.
you can check whether the bank of cyprus' depositors can withdraw all their money. the short ans: no they can't.
if you put money in a bank, it is between you and the bank.
if you hold physical paper notes, it is between you and the singapore govt.
No. banks and cpf are the same. the only reason you can withdraw money anytime you want from banks is because the government/banks see no reason to restrict you yet. if the government/banks want to restrict you, they can pass some regulations, just like they did with cpf.
you can check whether the bank of cyprus' depositors can withdraw all their money. the short ans: no they can't.
if you put money in a bank, it is between you and the bank.
if you hold physical paper notes, it is between you and the singapore govt.
i'm not against having CPF restrictions entirely. i am happy to keep monies in the CPF till retirement. i am only missed that i can't take my money out (with the stupid annuity) or when i have someone changing the goalposts perpetually to deny me from enjoying the fruit of my labour. this is a pure violation of personal rights.
if the bank imposes the same restrictions, do you think people will want to deposit money with them?
now let's talk about the validity of the restrictions. is there statistics to show the proportion of retirees that squander away their CPF nest egg and turn to the state for help? no.
let's assume that the reasons are true, why can't it be a opt-in system, e.g. annuity? i am sure if a product is truly good, there won't be a lack of customers.
This is an interesting point of view.
I once discuss with a US friend regarding their social security and medicial fees - foreigners actually thinks CPF is a great way to protect citizen from becoming a burden to the country.
Anyways, if I am a creditor and I "use" my own money to buy real estate. Why must I pay CPF interest?? I find this part insane.
the answer is: the money in CPF is not yours. it is only a claim.
when you use CPF money to buy real estate, you are using CPF board's money to buy real estate, not your "money" in CPF.
eg. you have $100k in cpf, and you use $30k to buy HDB.
in effect, you borrow $30k to buy the HDB, which then have to be repaid with interest. your claim of $100k in cpf is still there.
this is why when you have $1million deposit in bank and a $1million mortgage from the same bank. When the bank goes bankrupt, you only get $50k from deposit insurance BUT you still owe the bank $1million.
There will not be any offsetting the deposit with the mortgage.
that $1million deposit is a claim against the bank.
the answer is: the money in CPF is not yours. it is only a claim.
when you use CPF money to buy real estate, you are using CPF board's money to buy real estate, not your "money" in CPF.
eg. you have $100k in cpf, and you use $30k to buy HDB.
in effect, you borrow $30k to buy the HDB, which then have to be repaid with interest. your claim of $100k in cpf is still there.
this is why when you have $1million deposit in bank and a $1million mortgage from the same bank. When the bank goes bankrupt, you only get $50k from deposit insurance BUT you still owe the bank $1million.
There will not be any offsetting the deposit with the mortgage.
that $1million deposit is a claim against the bank.
i've already explained, in the case of education funding that the loan is taken from an individual account, not CPF. taking my example further, if I decide to fund my kid's education and not expect repayment, can I then renounce my claim against CPF for the same amount of monies? No. CPF and the bank do not operate similarly. as for the bankruptcy, the depositor can still lay claims after the bank assets are liquidated.
secondly, i can choose whether to deposit with Bank A or B or none at all but for CPF, there isn't really a choice - which is the main bugbear for me.
the answer is: the money in CPF is not yours. it is only a claim.
when you use CPF money to buy real estate, you are using CPF board's money to buy real estate, not your "money" in CPF.
eg. you have $100k in cpf, and you use $30k to buy HDB.
in effect, you borrow $30k to buy the HDB, which then have to be repaid with interest. your claim of $100k in cpf is still there.
this is why when you have $1million deposit in bank and a $1million mortgage from the same bank. When the bank goes bankrupt, you only get $50k from deposit insurance BUT you still owe the bank $1million.
There will not be any offsetting the deposit with the mortgage.
that $1million deposit is a claim against the bank.Then if CPF goes bankrupt, how much can we claim?
Then if CPF goes bankrupt, how much can we claim?
whoa, you will still stick around to claim? i would have jumped ship liao ;) ;)
Good question. Bankrupt means nothing left to pay you right, what can you claim?
Then if CPF goes bankrupt, how much can we claim?
whoa, you will still stick around to claim? i would have jumped ship liao ;) ;)
even if i jumped down i also want an answer :D
Good question. Bankrupt means nothing left to pay you right, what can you claim?
yalor, bank money not my money, cpf money also not my money. That's sucks.
Good question. Bankrupt means nothing left to pay you right, what can you claim?
can claim after the assets are liquidated, but have to take queue number
even if i jumped down i also want an answer :D
CPF will give you a life jacket, no answers
Is it any wonder people rather Convert money to properties, gold, or even keep in tin cans at home etc rather than leaving in the banks, let alone in CPF?
yalor, bank money not my money, cpf money also not my money. That's sucks.
i've already explained, in the case of education funding that the loan is taken from an individual account, not CPF. taking my example further, if I decide to fund my kid's education and not expect repayment, can I then renounce my claim against CPF for the same amount of monies? No. CPF and the bank do not operate similarly. as for the bankruptcy, the depositor can still lay claims after the bank assets are liquidated.
secondly, i can choose whether to deposit with Bank A or B or none at all but for CPF, there isn't really a choice - which is the main bugbear for me.
You are mistaken in your belief that loan is taken from an individual account. If you have $1million deposit and you borrow $500k to buy house, do you need to pay interest on the $500k mortgage? What does the bank statement shows?
The key point is you cannot withdraw your CPF before retirement, so when you are funding your child's education, and since you cannot withdraw, you are borrowing money from CPF. that's why you cannot write off your children's debt. you are owing money to cpf.
CPF is a bank with many restrictions to prevent the deposits from being withdrawn. If i am not wrong, it is one of the anchor for financial stability in singapore, because there cannot ever be a bank run in CPF.
and if there is financial instablity, cpf can used its huge deposit base to backstop the singapore financial system.
And since it is a bank, it is a source of money creation in singapore. the deposit base needs to grow ever larger, hence higher and higher minimal sum. and That's why they make it very difficult to access and withdraw your cpf funds.
Can you withdraw your CPF funds in Singapore embassies when you are retired and already pass the minimum sums?
You are mistaken in your belief that loan is taken from an individual account. If you have $1million deposit and you borrow $500k to buy house, do you need to pay interest on the $500k mortgage? What does the bank statement shows?
The key point is you cannot withdraw your CPF before retirement, so when you are funding your child's education, and since you cannot withdraw, you are borrowing money from CPF. that's why you cannot write off your children's debt. you are owing money to cpf.
CPF is a bank with many restrictions to prevent the deposits from being withdrawn. If i am not wrong, it is one of the anchor for financial stability in singapore, because there cannot ever be a bank run in CPF.
and if there is financial instablity, cpf can used its huge deposit base to backstop the singapore financial system.
And since it is a bank, it is a source of money creation in singapore. the deposit base needs to grow ever larger, hence higher and higher minimal sum. and That's why they make it very difficult to access and withdraw your cpf funds.
Can you withdraw your CPF funds in Singapore embassies when you are retired and already pass the minimum sums?
just check out CPF website, the sum taken is specific to individual accounts. in fact, it is a pre-requisite.
just check out CPF website, the sum taken is specific to individual accounts. in fact, it is a pre-requisite.
can you withdraw more than 100% of your CPF account, for education, housing etc?
if can withdraw more than 100%, doesnt it defeat the stated purpose of retirement fund.
so sum taken out is specific to individual account in the sense that you cannot borrow more than your account.
My parents had cpf RA of $30K+ after retirement 55, partial drawdown. Now in late 70s, the $30K is all gone. Made to pay annuity plan of $3k+ every year! 10yrs $30k++++. How to retire ? Annuity should hv opt in or opt out. And not compulsory opt plan A or plan B, or C etc.
I don't really care. depend on one self to make money, I don't beg from people or government to feed me.
but the forced savings really good for the majority of the people. They don't save, indulge in gambling, womanizing, instant gratification when they are working.
agree. where is a investment that layman able to achieve 3%-4%? many donno wat to do just blindly buy instance which pay less than 2%.
Its very narrow minded not to see the value. without this forces saving those who never prepare for retirement one later fall into trouble who help them?
Anyway this is not new. many countries some some form or rather pension funds or forced saving to ensure the risk are taken care for the people.
"i tot goal post moving dun affect retirees. - you are probably too young to see this.
:Goal post moving " in the sense that the legitimate withdrawal age is "moving from 55 to 62, then to 85 .... CPF annuity Life in drips and drap". Crap Crap Crap !!
Did'nt you hear Raymond Yap (age 66 ) at Hong LIm Park challenging the minitster on National TV to return him his migre CPF LIfe savings. He challenge the gahment to gurantee that he lived to 85 or longer like some old non-working MP still receiving citizens stipends ..What Raymund is saying is that the Gahment won't return him his money when he is still alive .:banghead: :banghead:
Talk cock lah.... its fund pooled together that would use to pay for medical and standby retirement. Also as a safety net.
U ask raymond to go to a insurance company ask for all his claim back at 1 time. see he can get a not.
My parents had cpf RA of $30K+ after retirement 55, partial drawdown. Now in late 70s, the $30K is all gone. Made to pay annuity plan of $3k+ every year! 10yrs $30k++++. How to retire ? Annuity should hv opt in or opt out. And not compulsory opt plan A or plan B, or C etc.
Anunity still pay ur mum n dad $ wat. u make it sound like total lost. some people take 30K out donno wat to do. spend on china mei mei really gone in 1mth.
this is why when you have $1million deposit in bank and a $1million mortgage from the same bank. When the bank goes bankrupt, you only get $50k from deposit insurance BUT you still owe the bank $1million.
There will not be any offsetting the deposit with the mortgage.
that $1million deposit is a claim against the bank.
and the best part is, the reverse does work.
if you have deposit with the bank, the LO usually provides for bank to offset against your loan if you default. :doh:
Anunity still pay ur mum n dad $ wat. u make it sound like total lost. some people take 30K out donno wat to do. spend on china mei mei really gone in 1mth.
Minority got a good point.
We should not forget that CPF pays decent interest from layman's view.
Where else can you get risk free 4% interest ?
Thats why nowadays, Office Boy choose to use cash to pay for instalments and leave the CPF intact to earn more interest, so that can retire earlier...
DKSG
Then if CPF goes bankrupt, how much can we claim?
if CPF goes bankrupt, you have to take your physical gold and run road. all your ppty already become paper asset leow.
Anunity still pay ur mum n dad $ wat. u make it sound like total lost. some people take 30K out donno wat to do. spend on china mei mei really gone in 1mth.
this is quite true also. but also, CPF goal post should not move so often. the point is, the fundamental beliefs behind many sgp policies are good. it is often the implementation that screws up.
can you withdraw more than 100% of your CPF account, for education, housing etc?
if can withdraw more than 100%, doesnt it defeat the stated purpose of retirement fund.
so sum taken out is specific to individual account in the sense that you cannot borrow more than your account.
for bank loans, i don't need have my deposits exceeding the loan amount i take out.
secondly, i can do what i deem fit if it is truly my retirement fund eh? all these goalpost changing, isn't it the same as france, italy, spain all pushing back retirement age to deter pensioners from taking out their monies?
except in singapore, it's under the 'guise' of protecting the citizens. pttuuuii
Anunity still pay ur mum n dad $ wat. u make it sound like total lost. some people take 30K out donno wat to do. spend on china mei mei really gone in 1mth.
so it's alright to penalize the majority for the sins of the minority? :doh: :doh:
so it's alright to penalize the majority for the sins of the minority? :doh: :doh:
wat make u think the majority of the old people know wat to do with their $? after they take from cpf?
wat make u think the majority of the old people know wat to do with their $? after they take from cpf?
then my question to you is
what makes you think that the majority of the elderly do not know what to do with their $?
then my question to you is
what makes you think that the majority of the elderly do not know what to do with their $?
answer my question 1st duh....
i'm not against having CPF restrictions entirely. i am happy to keep monies in the CPF till retirement. i am only missed that i can't take my money out (with the stupid annuity) or when i have someone changing the goalposts perpetually to deny me from enjoying the fruit of my labour. this is a pure violation of personal rights.
if the bank imposes the same restrictions, do you think people will want to deposit money with them?
now let's talk about the validity of the restrictions. is there statistics to show the proportion of retirees that squander away their CPF nest egg and turn to the state for help? no.
let's assume that the reasons are true, why can't it be a opt-in system, e.g. annuity? i am sure if a product is truly good, there won't be a lack of customers.
eh moron, LEARN TO READ and follow the thread.
the question was raised way before you decide to gatecrash. and please, stop contributing since your nonsense will only denigrate the debate
eh moron, LEARN TO READ and follow the thread.
the question was raised way before you decide to gatecrash. and please, stop contributing since your nonsense will only denigrate the debate
U are a degenerate . Statistics? U don't read wan bao? Go geylang n look how's many uncle there at the kopi Tiam. Even if have statistics u can understand? U will say bluff 1.
So ? Duh!!!!!
U are a degenerate . Statistics? U don't read wan bao? Go geylang n look how's many uncle there at the kopi Tiam. Even if have statistics u can understand? U will say bluff 1.
So ? Duh!!!!!
so these uncle who hang out at kopi tiam in geylang represent the entire population??? :doh: :doh:
please do yourself a favor, shut up
phantom_opera
09-05-13, 16:09
now u know what is the real inflation level
2010 – $123,000
2011 – $131,000 (+6.5%)
2012 – $139,000 (+6.1%)
2013 – $148,000 (+6.5%)
so these uncle who hang out at kopi tiam in geylang represent the entire population??? :doh: :doh:
please do yourself a favor, shut up
Where n which blind eye of urs see me say entire population ? Degenerate !
Where n which blind eye of urs see me say entire population ? Degenerate !
wah piang, kam gong. didn't i ask should the majority be punished for the sins of the minority??
eh, please go spend time preparing for your PSLEs instead of wasting time here.
for bank loans, i don't need have my deposits exceeding the loan amount i take out.
secondly, i can do what i deem fit if it is truly my retirement fund eh? all these goalpost changing, isn't it the same as france, italy, spain all pushing back retirement age to deter pensioners from taking out their monies?
except in singapore, it's under the 'guise' of protecting the citizens. pttuuuii
Too complicated for u to understand I guess. When population decline n people don't replace themselves . N they reject new citizens. The model have to evolve to substain. Passing it to a insurance instead will prevent a run at the system.
Anyway it's too complicated for ur feeble brain. Everyone is out to makan u. Why don't u leave n go JB Loh. Go get rape there instead.
wah piang, kam gong. didn't i ask should the majority be punished for the sins of the minority??
eh, please go spend time preparing for your PSLEs instead of wasting time here.
Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Is that the best u can do? I thought u can do better!
Too complicated for u to understand I guess. When population decline n people don't replace themselves . N they reject new citizens. The model have to evolve to substain. Passing it to a insurance instead will prevent a run at the system.
Anyway it's too complicated for ur feeble brain. Everyone is out to makan u. Why don't u leave n go JB Loh. Go get rape there instead.
eh kam gong, what model? ponzi model? catwalk model?
do you even know what the discussion is about? go off tangent talking about insurance??!!
go prepare for PSLE
If you all go showflats and pay attention to those buyers > 55 years old. It is not difficult to understand the government's view.
It is indeed true that many older folks are unable to handle their finances. Those young ppl in this forum maybe cannot understand why 60 year old uncle can get conned by China MM (Mei Mei) - are their IQ so low ?
Nonono ... they just want instant gratification even if it means future sufferings.
So, forcing ppl (the general public) to put money is CPF is good one. Of course there is a group of ppl like those smart, intelligent, financial savvy forumers here who will feel short changed because with the money in CPF, you guys will be able to make even more than what the CFP is giving!
But what to do, our policies are not calibrated by individual IQ, so have to take this lor!
Trust me, if u can calculate how many uncles can get conned by CNN (China MM), multiply by the costs the country will have to bear (ie handouts, old folks shelter, etc), the cost will be exorbitant.
Those smart and intelligent should use this to help the rest, not use it for their own purpose and endanger the rest.
DKSG
eh kam gong, what model? ponzi model? catwalk model?
do you even know what the discussion is about? go off tangent talking about insurance??!!
go prepare for PSLE
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Is that all u can say. thats really feeble. u are just blind and jealous man. u are really kam lan. never tao is it?
If you all go showflats and pay attention to those buyers > 55 years old. It is not difficult to understand the government's view.
It is indeed true that many older folks are unable to handle their finances. Those young ppl in this forum maybe cannot understand why 60 year old uncle can get conned by China MM (Mei Mei) - are their IQ so low ?
Nonono ... they just want instant gratification even if it means future sufferings.
So, forcing ppl (the general public) to put money is CPF is good one. Of course there is a group of ppl like those smart, intelligent, financial savvy forumers here who will feel short changed because with the money in CPF, you guys will be able to make even more than what the CFP is giving!
But what to do, our policies are not calibrated by individual IQ, so have to take this lor!
Trust me, if u can calculate how many uncles can get conned by CNN (China MM), multiply by the costs the country will have to bear (ie handouts, old folks shelter, etc), the cost will be exorbitant.
Those smart and intelligent should use this to help the rest, not use it for their own purpose and endanger the rest.
DKSG
The Kum 1 wan to see stats.. u have stats bo. if not say u bluff 1. I personally also know few who have lost $ to China MM or worst 60 yrs old spend all his $ in China MM and then sign credit cards to rack up $200K debt before the children have to step in to bail him out and cut up all the credit cards etc.
.......
Trust me, if u can calculate how many uncles can get conned by CNN (China MM), multiply by the costs the country will have to bear (ie handouts, old folks shelter, etc), the cost will be exorbitant.
.....
i dont trust people who ask me to trust them.
if you are talking about getting con, how come govt still allow dubious investment schemes like geneva gold, profitable plots etc?
sorry i cannot calculate, can you provide some figures the cost of being cheated by china mei mei and cost of being cheated by dubious investment schemes.
for bank loans, i don't need have my deposits exceeding the loan amount i take out.
secondly, i can do what i deem fit if it is truly my retirement fund eh? all these goalpost changing, isn't it the same as france, italy, spain all pushing back retirement age to deter pensioners from taking out their monies?
except in singapore, it's under the 'guise' of protecting the citizens. pttuuuii
yes, have mentioned before. cpf is a more restrictive form of bank as compared to normal banks. if can borrow more than cpf account, then it lays bare the lie that cpf is a retirement fund instead of the bank. you put money in bank, you get interest. you put money in cpf, you get interest.
as stated earlier, it is not your money in your cpf account. it is not your money if you cannot hold it. always remember this, "possesion is 9/10 of the law".
as for pushing back retirement age, it is because of longer life expectancy.
last time people start work at 20, retire 55, died 70. so 35 years working to support 35 years non-working (15 years retirement + 20 years childhood).
people live longer. now died 80. and start work at 25. if maintain retirement age ie : 25: 55: 80. so 30 years working to support 50 years non-working (25 years retirement + 25 years childhood). System likely to be non-sustainable.
increase retirement age to 65
if ratio of 25:65:80. 40 years working to support 40 years non-working (15 years retirement + 25 years childhood), which is similar to 20:55:70
and yes, all governments do not like pension funds to be taken out in full. so they use ways and means to deter and restrict the flow of money out of pension funds. pension funds can be quite useful, as an eg. pension funds can be used to buy government bonds.
please get rid of the notion that cpf is your money. it is not.
and i am not telling the pros and cons of cpf, etc etc whether it is right or wrong restrictions, shifting goal post. i am only telling what it is.
You make a very good point. Those gold guarantee, land banking, time sharing companies many are dubious, why are they allowed to scam people so much money & no prior actions taken to stop them scaming while CPF min sum keep being raised by so much in the name of protecting these people's money?
We should have opt-in scheme where those assessed to be unable to manage their money can have all money managed by the state, not just min sum. That way they earn high interest of 2.5% & money very safe right? People who support CPF min sum should walk the talk
i dont trust people who ask me to trust them.
if you are talking about getting con, how come govt still allow dubious investment schemes like geneva gold, profitable plots etc?
sorry i cannot calculate, can you provide some figures the cost of being cheated by china mei mei and cost of being cheated by dubious investment schemes.
hopeful
interesting post on working years vs non-working years.
http://www.indofest.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/LikeINDOfestonfacebook.jpg
personally i feel the reason why this country is so sucessful is because of our
CPF scheme but then again maybe a BIT TOO sucessful that a lot of people
on the lower rung of the ladder are feeling the heat:o
i dont trust people who ask me to trust them.
if you are talking about getting con, how come govt still allow dubious investment schemes like geneva gold, profitable plots etc?
sorry i cannot calculate, can you provide some figures the cost of being cheated by china mei mei and cost of being cheated by dubious investment schemes.
Wah those also government fault ? u are so funny. so what abt car dealers? arent those who sold car never transfer also dubious? So need government to police also? like that many things to police. So the mini bond also government fault? The Lehman collapse and whole US issue also our government never police?
Maybe we should be police state?
Frankly people need to take some responsibility for their own action.
So I guess CPF is good. coz lock people $ up so people dont do stupid things and regret later.? So CPF increase is good! then.
You make a very good point. Those gold guarantee, land banking, time sharing companies many are dubious, why are they allowed to scam people so much money & no prior actions taken to stop them scaming while CPF min sum keep being raised by so much in the name of protecting these people's money?
We should have opt-in scheme where those assessed to be unable to manage their money can have all money managed by the state, not just min sum. That way they earn high interest of 2.5% & money very safe right? People who support CPF min sum should walk the talk
CPF raise stop people loose money to scam.! loose $ to scam blame government? LOL!
Time for people to take some responsibility! want freedom but cannot take responsibility ? LOL tats so childish and naive.
Since you said people need to take own responsibility, then don't need CPF right? People can take own responsibility if lose money to scam, people can also take own responsibility by not having CPF right? What for? Another idiotic statement!
CPF raise stop people loose money to scam.! loose $ to scam blame government? LOL!
Time for people to take some responsibility! want freedom but cannot take responsibility ? LOL tats so childish and naive.
The 2 statements just show you have no brain, keep contradicting yourselves.
If people can take own responsibility, then don't need CPF too since they can take own responsibility even if they lose all money later! :tongue3:
Wah those also government fault ? u are so funny. so what abt car dealers? arent those who sold car never transfer also dubious? So need government to police also? like that many things to police. So the mini bond also government fault? The Lehman collapse and whole US issue also our government never police?
Maybe we should be police state?
Frankly people need to take some responsibility for their own action.
So I guess CPF is good. coz lock people $ up so people dont do stupid things and regret later.? So CPF increase is good! then.
Since you said people need to take own responsibility, then don't need CPF right? People can take own responsibility if lose money to scam, people can also take own responsibility by not having CPF right? What for? Another idiotic statement!
Precisely! u see the people complain government must take care of them etc. so u think the people can be responsible?
U are a big idiot!
Not sure who is idiot? You have understanding problem right?
Hopeful is rebuking your statement that CPF is meant to help you all safe guard your money because if govt really wants to safe-guard you people's money, they should just stopped all those scammers operating time-share companies and gold guarantee first because they are obviously scams instead of letting people lose money in these stuffs. Since they are not willing to do so, then the purpose of having CPF to safe-guard people's money as you purported doesn't hold water.
Hopeful, please correct me if I am wrong about what you mean.
Precisely! u see the people complain government must take care of them etc. so u think the people can be responsible?
U are a big idiot!
Not sure who is idiot? You have understanding problem right?
Hopeful is rebuking your statement that CPF is meant to help you all safe guard your money because if govt really wants to safe-guard you people's money, they should just stopped all those scammers operating time-share companies and gold guarantee first because they are obviously scams instead of letting people lose money in these stuffs. Since they are not willing to do so, then the purpose of having CPF to safe-guard people's money as you purported doesn't hold water.
Hopeful, please correct me if I am wrong about what you mean.
LOL u are prata man.. CPF cannot be used to invest into those scam. there are a list of CPF approved investment fund. which have been limited to a smaller list.
So u agree CPF is good. LOL its a free market some one want to buy gold at 30% premium. who can stop them. So by saying that u are saying everything in singapore must be government policed. So u make $ is great! if government restrict dont let u make $ is government fuxk. But if u loose $ is always government fault! never regulate.
Anyway these company already are not MAS approved entity. already tell u at ur own risk. want freedom of choice? then this is the risk.
LOL u are a joke. wat a clown :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
if not the gold scam then the china Mei Mei. that want also must regulate too? LOL.. u are a joke... ok ok for u. u should also ask MAS regulate china mei mei too.. ok.. dumb ass.
So everytime there is a new scam come up. some people loose $ b4 it get close down. so its government fault? how fast can u catch scam?
So isnt it safer that CPF help sate guard the $?
I personally find cpf is good. If not for cpf alot of youngsters may not be able to buy hdb flat. Most youngers spend money blindly on luxury cars even they can bearly afford, restaurant fine dinning, luxury bags or things, impress girls etc. They don't save enough. Luckily got cpf they are able to buy hdb flat by monthly deduction. As for old people most tend to spend all their money when they were given a lump sum. They spend on gamble to past time, some on women, some spend on tours every few months in the end left with no money.
Cpf is indeed a good thing.
I personally find cpf is good. If not for cpf alot of youngsters may not be able to buy hdb flat. Most youngers spend money blindly on luxury cars even they can bearly afford, restaurant fine dinning, luxury bags or things, impress girls etc. They don't save enough. Luckily got cpf they are able to buy hdb flat by monthly deduction. As for old people most tend to spend all their money when they were given a lump sum. They spend on gamble to past time, some on women, some spend on tours every few months in the end left with no money.
Cpf is indeed a good thing.
CPF is a good thing for those under 55 for the reason you said.
After 60, 10 out of 10 men/women (including you ) would not live to see their CPF money taken out to be spend in the way they like (eg daily expenses, for their remaining day, mind you not even for coffin money ?? ).
I say CPF money should be return in FULL immediately after 70. No one live to 85 with this stress.. many died not from hunger but worry and unhappiness.. Forget about the CPF Life annuity.. Crab crab .. pian lao nang..
Is CPF still good for you after 60, think about it ?? :banghead: :banghead:
Not sure who is idiot? You have understanding problem right?
Hopeful is rebuking your statement that CPF is meant to help you all safe guard your money because if govt really wants to safe-guard you people's money, they should just stopped all those scammers operating time-share companies and gold guarantee first because they are obviously scams instead of letting people lose money in these stuffs. Since they are not willing to do so, then the purpose of having CPF to safe-guard people's money as you purported doesn't hold water.
Hopeful, please correct me if I am wrong about what you mean.
Yes, you get what i mean. If people asked politely like eng81157, i would respond. those with an attitude, i dont respond and just let them win.
As for losses to china mei mei and other reasons, that is a smoke screen. What is a bank worst fear? that their deposit base is getting smaller.
you see the govt has always used the term forced savings. Now where do you save. in a bank.
I was reading TREmeritus the other day, the article by prof balding about CPF rates being much lower as compared to GIC, TH returns and how cpf holders are being taken for a ride. Now I am not as qualified academically as prof balding, nor as smart.
Let's say I deposit money in DBS, i earn 0.75% interest. DBS earn 10% profit.
Now can DBS depositors demand DBS bank to share that 10% profit with all the depositors? The answer is a big NO.
That's why I find it humorous that cpf depositors are supposed to get higher returns just because GIC and TH are getting higher returns.
I cannot give definitive evidence that cpf is a bank. however....
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
Regulators
11-05-13, 09:08
cpf is a scam in itself. the majority of the country seems to be made up of dumbos like you that need the govt to plan your finances n all pappies who subscribe to cpf must be dumbos too. :doh:
CPF raise stop people loose money to scam.! loose $ to scam blame government? LOL!
Time for people to take some responsibility! want freedom but cannot take responsibility ? LOL tats so childish and naive.
The_Way_I_See_It
11-05-13, 09:09
CPF is a good thing for those under 55 for the reason you said.
After 60, 10 out of 10 men/women (including you ) would not live to see their CPF money taken out to be spend in the way they like (eg daily expenses, for their remaining day, mind you not even for coffin money ?? ).
I say CPF money should be return in FULL immediately after 70. No one live to 85 with this stress.. many died not from hunger but worry and unhappiness.. Forget about the CPF Life annuity.. Crab crab .. pian lao nang..
Is CPF still good for you after 60, think about it ?? :banghead: :banghead:
Let me just add that Here we are NOT A WELFARE State. ChengHU don't take care of elderly unlike the western country Even though the country seem" rich enough" to do so. So the more the state have no right to deprive you of your rightful own money when their mentality is you "died your own business". :doh:
Regulators
11-05-13, 09:20
the govt is using one size fits all approach for cpf which is flawed from the beginning. they assume everyone is a dumbo like minority, who incidentally belongs to the very small minority.
CPF is a good thing for those under 55 for the reason you said.
After 60, 10 out of 10 men/women (including you ) would not live to see their CPF money taken out to be spend in the way they like (eg daily expenses, for their remaining day, mind you not even for coffin money ?? ).
I say CPF money should be return in FULL immediately after 70. No one live to 85 with this stress.. many died not from hunger but worry and unhappiness.. Forget about the CPF Life annuity.. Crab crab .. pian lao nang..
Is CPF still good for you after 60, think about it ?? :banghead: :banghead:
Regulators
11-05-13, 09:26
yes, I agree with you. our govt in reality leaves us all to fend for ourselves yet they do not allow us to maximise the returns on our money and allow it to be tied down in cpf, paying lousy returns which are barely enough to cover inflation. :doh:
Let me just add that Here we are NOT A WELFARE State. ChengHU don't take care of elderly unlike the western country Even though the country seem" rich enough" to do so. So the more the state have no right to deprive you of your rightful own money when their mentality is you "died your own business". :doh:
Allthepies
11-05-13, 09:42
Everything is a scam . We being richer and enjoying better life than most people on planet Earth is a scam by itself. The less fortunate people have been scammed to allow us to lead better life than them.
Regulators
11-05-13, 09:47
it is luck, not scam. we happen to have a stupid neighbor that gave up a precious piece of land n we made good the foundation that raffles laid for us.
Everything is a scam . We being richer and enjoying better life than most people on planet Earth is a scam by itself. The less fortunate people have been scammed to allow us to lead better life than them.
Allthepies
11-05-13, 09:56
Hmmm, within Singapore itself, a lot of people have been scammed too. All workers have been scammed to provide good life for the bosses. :D
The Kum 1 wan to see stats.. u have stats bo. if not say u bluff 1. I personally also know few who have lost $ to China MM or worst 60 yrs old spend all his $ in China MM and then sign credit cards to rack up $200K debt before the children have to step in to bail him out and cut up all the credit cards etc.
eh moron, no one is asking CPF to be abolished. we are debating why can't there be an opt-in/out system?
using your example, why do we have 2 IRs then??! show me the stats that the elderly can't manage their finances
Yes, you get what i mean. If people asked politely like eng81157, i would respond. those with an attitude, i dont respond and just let them win.
As for losses to china mei mei and other reasons, that is a smoke screen. What is a bank worst fear? that their deposit base is getting smaller.
you see the govt has always used the term forced savings. Now where do you save. in a bank.
I was reading TREmeritus the other day, the article by prof balding about CPF rates being much lower as compared to GIC, TH returns and how cpf holders are being taken for a ride. Now I am not as qualified academically as prof balding, nor as smart.
Let's say I deposit money in DBS, i earn 0.75% interest. DBS earn 10% profit.
Now can DBS depositors demand DBS bank to share that 10% profit with all the depositors? The answer is a big NO.
That's why I find it humorous that cpf depositors are supposed to get higher returns just because GIC and TH are getting higher returns.
I cannot give definitive evidence that cpf is a bank. however....
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
a platypus?
Regulators
11-05-13, 10:20
why don't you say your parents scam you into this world as well? :doh: talking nonsense
Hmmm, within Singapore itself, a lot of people have been scammed too. All workers have been scammed to provide good life for the bosses. :D
I agreed that CPF should have opt-out system for people who know how to manage their money. Eg, by taking my money out of CPF & invest freely on my own, I can get 10% or more return a year, so I have more money when retired. However, that CPF life only pays you like 2% return, & ends up all you people are short-changed & destined to be poor without being able to grow your own money fast enough.
For too long, Singaporeans have been treated like idiots who don't know how to manage their money, esp like minority. I suggest gov should change CPF so that for people like minority, they can put all their fortune into CPF so that gov will help them to take care of their finances, while we can take ours out. Didn't somebody say we need to be responsible for our own finances & no problem to have IRs? Why suddenly we become cannot take care of our own finances & need CPF?
eh moron, no one is asking CPF to be abolished. we are debating why can't there be an opt-in/out system?
using your example, why do we have 2 IRs then??! show me the stats that the elderly can't manage their finances
Regulators
11-05-13, 11:32
Singaporeans at the May Day Protest Rally at Hong Lim Park.
9/05/2011
Is the CPF scheme turning into a scam?
It was a pillar of our social infrastructure. It gave the people a sense of assuredness, peace of mind, and a great feeling of security. That was our CPF.*Over the years the changes introduced to the CPF scheme have gradually transformed this institution of the people’s savings into an institution of grievances and frustration. It all started many years ago when some economic whiz kid discovered that there was too much money in the CPF waiting to be had. Anyone with a bright idea could lay his hands on this people’s treasure that have been laid aside to earn pittance from the interest rates.Now you understand why HDB flats are affordable and why the CPF savings are no longer enough for retirement? The policy of pricing HDB flats according to affordability is like pricing HDB flats according to how much the people have in their CPF savings. Brilliant. And the rest is history.This logic can be applied to the ever increasing medical costs. The CPF has been turned into a vehicle to enrich the medical profession. You have plenty of money in the Medisave or in medical insurance. Thus you can pay for the increasing medical fees. You can afford it, like it or not, your saving will be taken away from you in advance to fund the medical industry. And you may not need it at all. Medical fees and housing prices will keep going up as they are affordable, because there are money in the CPF savings.Did anyone really scheme to use the CPF for his own gambling habit, to fund his big billion dollar bets? Did anyone think that in such big gambles he could reap millions in bonuses when luck is with him, and simply ignore the losses as the losses came from other people’s money, not his own pocket? No need to pay back. The CPF contributors would be made to patch up the holes somehow through the shifting of goal posts or more schemes. I really hope that no one really thinks that the CPF money is for them to play. It is theft of the people’s hard earned money in all disguises. The line differentiating gambling from investments is too fine to make a difference.And I am very uncomfortable for anyone, or any economist, to lump the people’s hard earned money as the country’s reserves. It is the people’s money and not anyone else’s reserves. Once the reserves tag is glued on the people’s money, the one holding the key to the reserves may think that it is his for the taking or for his own schemes of things. I find it not only immoral but down right dangerous.No one can argue about putting aside some of our income as savings. But there are other important things to consider about savings. For those who can afford to, by all means save as much as you can. There are many out there who cannot afford to save. Saving is like eating half a bowl of rice or keeping the stomach half empty, to put some money aside. Forcing people to go hungry is not helping the people but ensuring them a slow death. Help the poor is to make provisions from other sources of revenue to allow them to have their bowl of rice and not go half hungry and not go half hungry by taking away the rice.*And there is a time to say providing for the rainy day is enough. The insurance agents will tell you that there is never enough in the insurance that you bought. Hmmm, reminds me of the reserves in the NKF as well as the reserves in the country’s vault. How much savings will be considered enough? Never enough. But the pragmatic reasoning will say up to a point, one needs not keep stuffing into the tin can for the tomorrow that may never come. There must be a sense of proportion.This brings to a point about savings by the oldies. At 60, 70, or 80, as long as one is self employed, one must continue to put money into the Medisave. What kind of stupidity or daylight robbery is that? At these ages, everyday is a bonus. If one is economically productive, one should be allowed to spend his keeps while he still can. Forcing grandpas to save! Economically active grandpas would have the comfort of his savings being left untouched. To add to more savings is the logic of an idiot, or robbing the oldies. Now why would people want to rob the oldies? Wicked isn’t it? No, they say they are helping the oldies so that they have more money to pay the hospitals when needed.There are many things that make the CPF smells foul. When the noble objective of a scheme is twisted to serve less noble objectives, or warped objectives, all schemes will turn foul. There is no need for oldies to keep savings. There is no moral reason to deprive the oldies from their hard earned savings to enjoy their twilight years even if it is for the use of god.Now what is the real reason to compel the old uncles and aunties to keep saving when they may hand in their identity cards anytime? Is it mercy or merciless?We have a very regimented institutions forcing people to save and save and while making it very difficult for the people to get back their hard earned money. On the other hand we have institutions like the HDB and the hospitals who are trying to take your money because you have money in your CPF. They price their products and services according to affordability and market forces, or to take every cent from you. It is like a candle burning on both ends.I have a better CPF scheme. Everyone must contribute 80% of his income to the CPF. Then he will have money to buy affordable flats, and money for all the medical bills, and for retirement. No more worries liao.
I do not understand why can't some investment savvy people be more magnanimous?
Those people should understand every responsible goverment will set up a retirement system for her people. As a public system, its responsibility is to look after the interest of most people, not everyone. From this aspect, I think CPF has played a successful role. Providing an opt-out option will make the system unnecessarily complex. One may think he himself is investment savvy. But in fact, it is these people who lose everything.
Those investment savvy one should have already made big money, why do they keep nagging and nagging on this peanut portion. Can't they just take CPF as a charity to keep the whole society in harmony? Anyhow, the goverment will return the fund back gradually, right?
Regulators
11-05-13, 11:41
you are very wrong, the cpf works only for the very small minority of Singaporeans who can't plan their finances, not majority.
I do not understand why can't some investment savvy people be more magnanimous?
Those people should understand every responsible goverment will set up a retirement system for her people. As a public system, its responsibility is to look after the interest of most people, not everyone. From this aspect, I think CPF has played a successful role. Providing an opt-out option will make the system unnecessarily complex. One may think he himself is investment savvy. But in fact, it is these people who lose everything.
Those investment savvy one should have already made big money, why do they keep nagging and nagging on this peanut portion. Can't they just take CPF as a charity to keep the whole society in harmony? Anyhow, the goverment will return the fund back gradually, right?
phantom_opera
11-05-13, 11:52
is cpf still enough consider
min sum up from 123k in 2010 to 148k now while contribution ceiling still at 5k
employer contrib still at 16pc not fully restored to 20pc
is cpf still enough consider
min sum up from 123k in 2010 to 148k now while contribution ceiling still at 5k
employer contrib still at 16pc not fully restored to 20pc
Based on phantom's calculation, the min sum increase 6-6.5% yearly.keep going up at this rate, I wonder when will we see our $. I think by the time my children reach 55...62 or 70...min sum is 1m or more.
But I understand if we passed on, the $ will go to our next of kin.
CPF is a good thing for those under 55 for the reason you said.
After 60, 10 out of 10 men/women (including you ) would not live to see their CPF money taken out to be spend in the way they like (eg daily expenses, for their remaining day, mind you not even for coffin money ?? ).
I say CPF money should be return in FULL immediately after 70. No one live to 85 with this stress.. many died not from hunger but worry and unhappiness.. Forget about the CPF Life annuity.. Crab crab .. pian lao nang..
Is CPF still good for you after 60, think about it ?? :banghead: :banghead:
Well CPF is given back over time why not given back? u want to take back all 1 time then its effectively a run on the system. unless u are willing to take zero interest on CPF?
cpf is a scam in itself. the majority of the country seems to be made up of dumbos like you that need the govt to plan your finances n all pappies who subscribe to cpf must be dumbos too. :doh:
lol... how is it a scam ? u can use it to buy shares. u can use it to pay for ur house. ur kids education etc. ? scam?
so all the similar systems in all the other countries are also consider a scam? when the people no $ go back kpkb at the state to take care. u get tax more to support them. then that I would say is more of a scam !
Let me just add that Here we are NOT A WELFARE State. ChengHU don't take care of elderly unlike the western country Even though the country seem" rich enough" to do so. So the more the state have no right to deprive you of your rightful own money when their mentality is you "died your own business". :doh:
peng u. u want jeng hu take care of u? u want to pay 45% tax? and many of such countries with these schemes are considering if its sustainable.
it is luck, not scam. we happen to have a stupid neighbor that gave up a precious piece of land n we made good the foundation that raffles laid for us.
really? without hard work good planing of the fore fathers u think this piece of swam will become today? we have oil? we have commodity? wat do we have naturally endowed to us? Nothing! its all hard work.
eh moron, no one is asking CPF to be abolished. we are debating why can't there be an opt-in/out system?
using your example, why do we have 2 IRs then??! show me the stats that the elderly can't manage their finances
So little people. how to opt in opt out. if we have 65M people sure u can opt in opt out. when CPF started we have ~1.5M people how to scale if marjority dont opt in.
use ur grey matter.. opp.. u bo.
phantom_opera
11-05-13, 15:11
Based on phantom's calculation, the min sum increase 6-6.5% yearly.keep going up at this rate, I wonder when will we see our $. I think by the time my children reach 55...62 or 70...min sum is 1m or more.
But I understand if we passed on, the $ will go to our next of kin.
many ppl kpkb because they think if they get the money out, they can outperform CPF 4% compound return (e.g. by buying shares / properties), this is basically based on past performance of property/share in Singapore @7-9%pa, but what if in next 20y, low return is the norm .. then they will probably appreciate the safety of CPF SA
to the very rich, it is peanut to them
to the very poor & young middle class, not much cpf
so most likely those kpkb one is sandwich class that is like earning 100-150kpa but when they reach 55, not much can be withdrawn due to ever increasing min sum for MA/SA
another point I would like to highlight is long term return for endowment policy is normally about 5-5.5%pa in Singapore in the past ... given then CPF has much bigger scale / lower cost, they should at least perform on par with insurance companies
Regulators
11-05-13, 15:13
how can using cpf to buy a house even be considered a benefit? where is the logic when one has to pay backdated interest when putting money back into cpf after selling the house? if govt can allow people to gamble their money away in stocks using cpf, what kind of rubbish safety net is that for the people?
lol... how is it a scam ? u can use it to buy shares. u can use it to pay for ur house. ur kids education etc. ? scam?
so all the similar systems in all the other countries are also consider a scam? when the people no $ go back kpkb at the state to take care. u get tax more to support them. then that I would say is more of a scam !
I agreed that CPF should have opt-out system for people who know how to manage their money. Eg, by taking my money out of CPF & invest freely on my own, I can get 10% or more return a year, so I have more money when retired. However, that CPF life only pays you like 2% return, & ends up all you people are short-changed & destined to be poor without being able to grow your own money fast enough.
For too long, Singaporeans have been treated like idiots who don't know how to manage their money, esp like minority. I suggest gov should change CPF so that for people like minority, they can put all their fortune into CPF so that gov will help them to take care of their finances, while we can take ours out. Didn't somebody say we need to be responsible for our own finances & no problem to have IRs? Why suddenly we become cannot take care of our own finances & need CPF?
So u take out loose all ur $ so u will be waiting for state to help u? well maybe u wont but there will be people kpkb. u can also invest ur CPF. wat u say cannot. talk cock.
Regulators
11-05-13, 15:17
go n read your history books, what was lky doing when Singapore first became a thriving port. Singapore was already marked for success from raffles days, so please don't give me the crap that pap built everything from scratch.
really? without hard work good planing of the fore fathers u think this piece of swam will become today? we have oil? we have commodity? wat do we have naturally endowed to us? Nothing! its all hard work.
phantom_opera
11-05-13, 15:20
assume we are at 40y old, another 15y b4 55y
@4% from 148k ... ag age of 55, CPF SA min sum is 269k
@5% from 148k ... at age of 55, CPF SA min sum is 312k
how can using cpf to buy a house even be considered a benefit? where is the logic when one has to pay backdated interest when putting money back into cpf after selling the house? if govt can allow people to gamble their money away in stocks using cpf, what kind of rubbish safety net is that for the people?
Well dont let u invest people like heee KPKB.. well tats why some part of CPF cannot use. like special acct and medisafe. a % of it allow those who like thos say he expert like heeee can make 10%! those who act hero loose % at least they never loose their special or medisafe! not 100% lost.
Those who no balls dont invest they get 3-4% beating bank interest. why not good. its options for people.
Why buy home not benifit? some people cant save a single cent! this they are forced to safe. some people over extend themselves ah long come take their %,. CPF ah long cannot touch. bank cannot touch. who say no good. its a safety net for those who are not able to plan for themselves. For those who can they can still go buy shares or invest it. and not all investor can make $ like so call expert hheeee. but who knows. when hhheee lost $ the will say knn jeng hu let him gamble the $ away! jeng hu never regulate!
but when he make he kpkb say knn never let him use all he would have made a bigger killing!
go n read your history books, what was lky doing when Singapore first became a thriving port. Singapore was already marked for success from raffles days, so please don't give me the crap that pap built everything from scratch.
Did I say PAP? wtf.. use ur eyes. I say fore fathers. we never take over this place all laid with gold.
u want to talk abt government. ok so when brits withdraw. no army to defend ourselves. then Malaysia bully us kick us out want us to die. so wat ? suddenly gold flow out of our land? people do work.
Pls go re read the history book not story book.
you are very wrong, the cpf works only for the very small minority of Singaporeans who can't plan their finances, not majority.
Lol out loud u mean majority can plan. I don't think so. I feel many cannot plan. I have seen so many cases of failure to plan. I only see a few handful of successful ones.
I agree with that those who made it. why kpkb abt the cpf treat it as charity. its loose chain to them anyway. and still get back. treat it as mthly kopi $.
Regulators
11-05-13, 15:40
only a brainwashed idiot like you would believe cpf helps you to save. why can't govt provide option to opt out for the financially prudent n leave financial idiots like you to park your money in cpf? :doh:
Lol out loud u mean majority can plan. I don't think so. I feel many cannot plan. I have seen so many cases of failure to plan. I only see a few handful of successful ones.
I agree with that those who made it. why kpkb abt the cpf treat it as charity. its loose chain to them anyway. and still get back. treat it as mthly kopi $.
Regulators
11-05-13, 15:47
did I say buying home not a benefit? I said why is using cpf to buy home a benefit?
Well dont let u invest people like heee KPKB.. well tats why some part of CPF cannot use. like special acct and medisafe. a % of it allow those who like thos say he expert like heeee can make 10%! those who act hero loose % at least they never loose their special or medisafe! not 100% lost.
Those who no balls dont invest they get 3-4% beating bank interest. why not good. its options for people.
Why buy home not benifit? some people cant save a single cent! this they are forced to safe. some people over extend themselves ah long come take their %,. CPF ah long cannot touch. bank cannot touch. who say no good. its a safety net for those who are not able to plan for themselves. For those who can they can still go buy shares or invest it. and not all investor can make $ like so call expert hheeee. but who knows. when hhheee lost $ the will say knn jeng hu let him gamble the $ away! jeng hu never regulate!
but when he make he kpkb say knn never let him use all he would have made a bigger killing!
Don't talk kok lah! Many cannot plan? You might as well say many don't know how to vote the correct MP & govt, so their vote will be forfeited and the govt will help them to vote? :tongue3:
Many are complaining that they have no freedom to deal with their CPF money! CPF is different from social security, and CPF is our own money, we get back how much we put in, different from social security (where you can get more than you put in!). Therefore, it is clear: That people must have say in how they want to do with it instead of being tied up by govt policy. If the return in CPF is so poor, then govt will have to let people take out their own money! Since Singapore has no social safety net, and if people choose to take out their CPF money, they die their problem, nobody will blame govt.
Lol out loud u mean majority can plan. I don't think so. I feel many cannot plan. I have seen so many cases of failure to plan. I only see a few handful of successful ones.
I agree with that those who made it. why kpkb abt the cpf treat it as charity. its loose chain to them anyway. and still get back. treat it as mthly kopi $.
why can't govt provide option to opt out for the financially prudent n leave .... to park your money in cpf? :doh:
Because gov needs the financially prudent ones to subsidize the non prudent ones. Yes you are supposed to sacrifice.
And if you are already financially prudent, you will have no problem dealing with the various restrictions wrt CPF. You are even smart enough to profit from it. Why complain ?
Ppl have to realize we need some sort of pension system as a country. We all pay the same 20% social tax as Europe. Europeans dun see a cent of their social contibution. We do . We have a claim , as aptly put by hopeful, and we can even make use of it, despite all the restrictions and such. CPF is not perfect, but I think it is far better than 20% straight tax.
If you think everyone should fend for himself anyway and there is no need for any contribution at all, well all I can say is, this is not what modern society is supposed to function.
Why does the CPF min sum keep increasing faster than their reported inflation rate?
Very simple, because of GST!
As such, I pity those who has NO INCOME but yet need to PAY GST TAX! That is a NO EMPATHY TAX! Simple as that!
Has any country implemented GST and the GST rate remain the same forever? The answer is obvious! So OLD PEOPLE, you deserve it for voting those people in to implement GST for your own benefits! :p
Don't think what you said is right.
1) There is no subsidy because what you put into CPF is what you take out (+that migre interest rate which you can get much higher outside of CPF), the rich don't subsidize the poor, not like social security where the poor can take out much more than what they put in.
2) Singapore system is not a pension system, not like other countries where the poor will benefit from such a pension system, they can take out more, while the rich contribute much more but can take out much less.
3) Singapore has no social safety net, isn't that as good as everyone fend for themselves? So this is not a modern society should be right? But that is exactly what Singapore is.
4) People put in so much money into CPF, get tied up for so many years, but get so little return! While they take your cheap source of funding to earn 6-8%! Therefore, to convince people to put money into CPF, there need to be some changes to the system to make fair for them, at least reward them for tying up their money for so long! Otherwise allow them to opt out because many can fend for themselves and get better return. Otherwise, all these rumours about CPF being cheap source of funding for them will never end, and indeed they make it looks like that is the case.
Because gov needs the financially prudent ones to subsidize the non prudent ones. Yes you are supposed to sacrifice.
And if you are already financially prudent, you will have no problem dealing with the various restrictions wrt CPF. You are even smart enough to profit from it. Why complain ?
Ppl have to realize we need some sort of pension system as a country. We all pay the same 20% social tax as Europe. Europeans dun see a cent of their social contibution. We do . We have a claim , as aptly put by hopeful, and we can even make use of it, despite all the restrictions and such. CPF is not perfect, but I think it is far better than 20% straight tax.
If you think everyone should fend for himself anyway and there is no need for any contribution at all, well all I can say is, this is not what modern society is supposed to function.
Don't think what you said is right.
1) There is no subsidy because what you put into CPF is what you take out (+that migre interest rate which you can get much higher outside of CPF), the rich don't subsidize the poor, not like social security where the poor can take out much more than what they put in.
2) Singapore system is not a pension system, not like other countries where the poor will benefit from such a pension system, they can take out more, while the rich contribute much more but can take out much less.
3) Singapore has no social safety net, isn't that as good as everyone fend for themselves? So this is not a modern society should be right? But that is exactly what Singapore is.
4) People put in so much money into CPF, get tied up for so many years, but get so little return! While they take your cheap source of funding to earn 6-8%! Therefore, to convince people to put money into CPF, there need to be some changes to the system to make fair for them, at least reward them for tying up their money for so long! Otherwise allow them to opt out because many can fend for themselves and get better return. Otherwise, all these rumours about CPF being cheap source of funding for them will never end, and indeed they make it looks like that is the case.
I agree with you. Bulk of the CPF is for HDB for most people, but the government actually sets the HDB price. The HDB sets the price floor for EC and pte properties, which in turn affects the land price and revenue from land sales. Effectively the CPF didn't leak out much from the government's finance. Anyone with clearer perspective can correct me.
did I say buying home not a benefit? I said why is using cpf to buy home a benefit?
Why not? It's protected from creditors. Also fix payment the people won't over spend n miss their mortgage payment.
Why does the CPF min sum keep increasing faster than their reported inflation rate?
Very simple, because of GST!
As such, I pity those who has NO INCOME but yet need to PAY GST TAX! That is a NO EMPATHY TAX! Simple as that!
Has any country implemented GST and the GST rate remain the same forever? The answer is obvious! So OLD PEOPLE, you deserve it for voting those people in to implement GST for your own benefits! :p
Lol ur gst bull shit again. Gst is the cause of all evil? Yeah rich people like u will Siam tax ! Now want to Siam gst! Gst tax u the most oz u can't Siam gst! N u consumer more ! Big house big car fancy trips n restaurants n cloths! Keep gst to tax u!
Regulators
12-05-13, 10:09
Huh??? You mean people pay mortgage from their bank account cannot be fix payment?? At least those who pay from their own bank accounts don't have to pay any nonsensical backdated interest when they sell their house, unlike if you use cpf money. If returns on the cpf so fantastic for the people, why then do they even bother to use cpf to pay for their house? they might as well pay in cash and leave the money in cpf to collect the interest. :doh:
Why not? It's protected from creditors. Also fix payment the people won't over spend n miss their mortgage payment.
assume we are at 40y old, another 15y b4 55y
@4% from 148k ... ag age of 55, CPF SA min sum is 269k
@5% from 148k ... at age of 55, CPF SA min sum is 312k
I am also seeing the same for the Min Sum's direction. I wonder what is the % of the population that can meet the current 148K min sum.
I remember it was previously something like <20% has more than the min sum in CPF? Not sure what is the figure now.
I am also seeing the same for the Min Sum's direction. I wonder what is the % of the population that can meet the current 148K min sum.
When I said "pension system", I meant a system where society collects social contributions and redistribute them for old age related benefits to the society. A "social charges" system.
So the 20% is your social contribution. It is not your money.
But we also do not like the European system where it is too socialist. Therefore CPF was designed with explicit entitlement, or claims, that is directly linked to your contibution. This is to discourage free loaders, and instill a sense of self dependence. A little bit like "fend for your self", but not totally. Gov still promised a 2.5% return for the less prudent ones. And the gov needs the wealthy ones to have their larger CPF sum to have nene fits of scale for the fund.
By and large, SG system is pro capitalist , not pro socialist. It does not redistribute your contributions. It uses your contributins to establish a large enough fiscal pool to derive yields for others, and to maintain a solid financial foundation for the country itself. It is almost like every one is forced to buy a SG perpetual gov bond, such that the gov always have funds to defend SGD. Such financial backing by design is very helpful to sustain SG's position. This is why the restrictions on CPF withdrawals, etc.
Huh??? You mean people pay mortgage from their bank account cannot be fix payment?? At least those who pay from their own bank accounts don't have to pay any nonsensical backdated interest when they sell their house, unlike if you use cpf money. If returns on the cpf so fantastic for the people, why then do they even bother to use cpf to pay for their house? they might as well pay in cash and leave the money in cpf to collect the interest. :doh:
So u use cpf or cash.
phantom_opera
12-05-13, 13:25
When I said "pension system", I meant a system where society collects social contributions and redistribute them for old age related benefits to the society. A "social charges" system.
So the 20% is your social contribution. It is not your money.
But we also do not like the European system where it is too socialist. Therefore CPF was designed with explicit entitlement, or claims, that is directly linked to your contibution. This is to discourage free loaders, and instill a sense of self dependence. A little bit like "fend for your self", but not totally. Gov still promised a 2.5% return for the less prudent ones. And the gov needs the wealthy ones to have their larger CPF sum to have nene fits of scale for the fund.
By and large, SG system is pro capitalist , not pro socialist. It does not redistribute your contributions. It uses your contributins to establish a large enough fiscal pool to derive yields for others, and to maintain a solid financial foundation for the country itself. It is almost like every one is forced to buy a SG perpetual gov bond, such that the gov always have funds to defend SGD. Such financial backing by design is very helpful to sustain SG's position. This is why the restrictions on CPF withdrawals, etc.
further to that there is a limit on voluntary contribution up to min sum that many are not aware so garmen is not so 'Gian' (craving) abt your money, but it is true that those have many months of bonus contribute much more to cpf by design
Regulators
12-05-13, 16:28
I use cash as I never believe in cpf from day one when I started work.
So u use cpf or cash.
You Moron, Already shown you that I will be better off if you tax me with GST than if you tax me with income tax. Simple calculation also can' figure out! :doh:
Lol ur gst bull shit again. Gst is the cause of all evil? Yeah rich people like u will Siam tax ! Now want to Siam gst! Gst tax u the most oz u can't Siam gst! N u consumer more ! Big house big car fancy trips n restaurants n cloths! Keep gst to tax u!
I use cash as I never believe in cpf from day one when I started work.
u mean us also use cash for your investment properties?
Regulators
12-05-13, 21:03
yes, I am self employed :)
u mean us also use cash for your investment properties?
phantom_opera
12-05-13, 22:53
to show how inadequate is CPF for retirement, just assume u can meet the minimum sum (through voluntary contribution, windfall whatever) and the entire min sum is committed to CPF Life annuity at 55, which as of today, the payout is about 1.2k pm for 139k, since min sum is pegged to inflation .. we would assume that u will get paid an inflation-adjusted figure worth 1.2kpm today from 65 till death
let's say husband/wife both work towards the cpf min sum ... that will be about 2.4kpm of today's value in the future
but ... btn 55-65 u get nothing for CPF Life to accummulate interest
if u want to retire at 55 with above assumption ... that means u have to prepare to clear all debt + about 300k of today's cash value to "tong" thru the 10y when CPF life does not pay out anything
2.4kpm x 12 x 10 = 120 x 2.4k abt 300k today's value (or inflation-adjusted around 500k 15y later)
that target is only $80 per day of today's value for 2 retirees
So little people. how to opt in opt out. if we have 65M people sure u can opt in opt out. when CPF started we have ~1.5M people how to scale if marjority dont opt in.
use ur grey matter.. opp.. u bo.
so tell us, how much of this 1.5m population, as you claim, are incapable of managing their retirement savings?
let me tell you, since you are a stats-ignoramus, the max you may have is merely 25%.
Lol out loud u mean majority can plan. I don't think so. I feel many cannot plan. I have seen so many cases of failure to plan. I only see a few handful of successful ones.
I agree with that those who made it. why kpkb abt the cpf treat it as charity. its loose chain to them anyway. and still get back. treat it as mthly kopi $.
wah piang moron, I see many cases of successful planning, only a small minority like you who have zero intellect and needs a nanny to spoonfeed you.
that's why, go pass your PSLE exams first so that you learn how to count for a start :doh: :doh:
Well CPF is given back over time why not given back? u want to take back all 1 time then its effectively a run on the system. unless u are willing to take zero interest on CPF?
i am surprised minority said this and i am further surprised nobody else caught this.
A run on the system?
i hope minority can clarify "Well CPF is given back over time why not given back?" i dont understatement this comment.
i am surprised minority said this and i am further surprised nobody else caught this.
A run on the system?
i hope minority can clarify "Well CPF is given back over time why not given back?" i dont understatement this comment.
i'm surprised that you actually try to make sense of his nonsense.
Why not? It's protected from creditors. Also fix payment the people won't over spend n miss their mortgage payment.
sorry, i am not well verse in HDB.
are you talking about using cpf to partially pay for hdb or using hdb loan.
please correct me if i am wrong, if you take hdb loan to buy hdb, then you are protected from seizure by other creditors. however hdb itself can seize your hdb (and forcibly downgrade to a smaller hdb?). if you take private loan to buy hdb, you are not protected from seizure by other creditors, however cpf, bank will take their cut first for forced sale.
where does cpf play a part in all this?
in addition, if you use cpf to help pay for downpayment for private property, the banks can still seize your property.
i dont see the connection of cpf with protection from creditors, can somebody help to enlighten me.
sorry, i am not well verse in HDB.
are you talking about using cpf to partially pay for hdb or using hdb loan.
please correct me if i am wrong, if you take hdb loan to buy hdb, then you are protected from seizure by other creditors. however hdb itself can seize your hdb (and forcibly downgrade to a smaller hdb?). if you take private loan to buy hdb, you are not protected from seizure by other creditors, however cpf, bank will take their cut first for forced sale.
where does cpf play a part in all this?
in addition, if you use cpf to help pay for downpayment for private property, the banks can still seize your property.
i dont see the connection of cpf with protection from creditors, can somebody help to enlighten me.
bro, don't bother trying to make sense of nonsense. and don't need to throw pearls of wisdom to swines
Think nobody bother to make sense of his nonsense, since nonsense how to make sense? There isn't any.
i am surprised minority said this and i am further surprised nobody else caught this.
A run on the system?
i hope minority can clarify "Well CPF is given back over time why not given back?" i dont understatement this comment.
$1.2k per month per person is sufficient for living if exclude housing, just plain simple & no frill, eat bread, plain rice & noodle at home.
If $1.2k per month per person is not enough, how could those family on state assistance survive with just assistance of $300+ per month? You mean govt trying to starve these people to death? No right? So if $300+ pm pf is sufficient for a family of 4, then min sum of $15k pp is enough according to gov's state assistance figure?
to show how inadequate is CPF for retirement, just assume u can meet the minimum sum (through voluntary contribution, windfall whatever) and the entire min sum is committed to CPF Life annuity at 55, which as of today, the payout is about 1.2k pm for 139k, since min sum is pegged to inflation .. we would assume that u will get paid an inflation-adjusted figure worth 1.2kpm today from 65 till death
let's say husband/wife both work towards the cpf min sum ... that will be about 2.4kpm of today's value in the future
but ... btn 55-65 u get nothing for CPF Life to accummulate interest
if u want to retire at 55 with above assumption ... that means u have to prepare to clear all debt + about 300k of today's cash value to "tong" thru the 10y when CPF life does not pay out anything
2.4kpm x 12 x 10 = 120 x 2.4k abt 300k today's value (or inflation-adjusted around 500k 15y later)
that target is only $80 per day of today's value for 2 retirees
shareidiot
13-05-13, 11:50
Heehee,
PA is S$450/mth for 1 pax or S$1180/mth for family of 4 pax. For families with children, additional S$150/child.
Citizens under PA scheme enjoys free medical treatment in polyclinics and government/restructured hospitals.
Therefore, I sincerely suggest you to indicate the correct information & avoid misleading the general forummers. Thank you.
Meanwhile, please also understand that those families who are under the PA scheme, they are usually assisted through other channels which provide:
1) some free meals
2) tuition for children
3) school pocket fund
4) et cetera
$1.2k per month per person is sufficient for living if exclude housing, just plain simple & no frill, eat bread, plain rice & noodle at home.
If $1.2k per month per person is not enough, how could those family on state assistance survive with just assistance of $300+ per month? You mean govt trying to starve these people to death? No right? So if $300+ pm pf is sufficient for a family of 4, then min sum of $15k pp is enough according to gov's state assistance figure?
sorry, i am not well verse in HDB.
are you talking about using cpf to partially pay for hdb or using hdb loan.
please correct me if i am wrong, if you take hdb loan to buy hdb, then you are protected from seizure by other creditors. however hdb itself can seize your hdb (and forcibly downgrade to a smaller hdb?). if you take private loan to buy hdb, you are not protected from seizure by other creditors, however cpf, bank will take their cut first for forced sale.
where does cpf play a part in all this?
in addition, if you use cpf to help pay for downpayment for private property, the banks can still seize your property.
i dont see the connection of cpf with protection from creditors, can somebody help to enlighten me.
What ever sales proceeds from the seizing of the property goes back to ur CPF. then the banks.
so u rather loose all to the banks then go back to ur CPF?
What ever sales proceeds from the seizing of the property goes back to ur CPF. then the banks.
so u rather loose all to the banks then go back to ur CPF?
if 20% downpayment,property value drop to 60%. bank seized the property.
scenario 1: all dp in cash
i lose all my 20% downpayment money and i owe the bank additional 20%.
scenario 2: 15% dp in cash, 5% in cpf.
i lose all my 15% cash downpayment, 5% of proceeds goes back to cpf. i owe the bank additional 25%.
are you saying that scenario 2 is preferable? because if you declare bankruptcy more of your debt is wipe out as compared to scenario 1?
Thanks for correcting me, so my figure is outdated.
$450 pm pp is sufficient means for a person to retire at 65 years old for 20 years means only need $108k only! So what is the rationale to increase min sum further?
Don't forget, we still have medisave for medical which has not been included here yet.
Heehee,
PA is S$450/mth for 1 pax or S$1180/mth for family of 4 pax. For families with children, additional S$150/child.
Citizens under PA scheme enjoys free medical treatment in polyclinics and government/restructured hospitals.
Therefore, I sincerely suggest you to indicate the correct information & avoid misleading the general forummers. Thank you.
Meanwhile, please also understand that those families who are under the PA scheme, they are usually assisted through other channels which provide:
1) some free meals
2) tuition for children
3) school pocket fund
4) et cetera
shareidiot
13-05-13, 13:57
"Good Question" ... I am also scratching my head....
Personally, I think CPF is a good tool (for forced savings). However, the garment cannot keep raising the bar for withdrawing age/amount and increasing the minimum sum.
Afterall, truly, these are OUR OWN $$$. why we can't take control of our own $$$ after a certain age ? ... 死了也看不到钱....
Thanks for correcting me, so my figure is outdated.
$450 pm pp is sufficient means for a person to retire at 65 years old for 20 years means only need $108k only! So what is the rationale to increase min sum further?
Don't forget, we still have medisave for medical which has not been included here yet.
phantom_opera
13-05-13, 14:05
Thanks for correcting me, so my figure is outdated.
$450 pm pp is sufficient means for a person to retire at 65 years old for 20 years means only need $108k only! So what is the rationale to increase min sum further?
Don't forget, we still have medisave for medical which has not been included here yet.
that is because of inflation loh, $450pm is sufficient does not mean 20y later is sufficient
pls also note my original assumption that both husband/wife must work to achieve CPF SA min sum at age of 55 to secure income after 65 after CPF Life ... it is not that easy hoh, how many ppl today at 55 has achieved CPF SA min sum? Probably 50%?
shareidiot
13-05-13, 14:12
what is the SA minimum sum ? i googled, and it seems to imply S$139K ? This is SA or SA+OA ?
Title of this thread is SGD 148K. New rule? Sorry a little confused with the ever changing numbers...
Scratched head...
that is because of inflation loh, $450pm is sufficient does not mean 20y later is sufficient
pls also note my original assumption that both husband/wife must work to achieve CPF SA min sum at age of 55 to secure income after 65 after CPF Life ... it is not that easy hoh, how many ppl today at 55 has achieved CPF SA min sum? Probably 50%?
if 20% downpayment,property value drop to 60%. bank seized the property.
scenario 1: all dp in cash
i lose all my 20% downpayment money and i owe the bank additional 20%.
scenario 2: 15% dp in cash, 5% in cpf.
i lose all my 15% cash downpayment, 5% of proceeds goes back to cpf. i owe the bank additional 25%.
are you saying that scenario 2 is preferable? because if you declare bankruptcy more of your debt is wipe out as compared to scenario 1?
well if u owe bank % and u go bankrupt. the bank sells ur place at a lost. if no CPF banks take 100% u get ZERO. with CPF the $ still goes back to CPF and u are still a bankrupt. u still get ur $ in CPF. u also forgot people pay the mthly installment with CPF. so its not just 20% or 5% from CPF.
ur example. u have to consider % paid up. u are assuming yr1 scenario? and also buying private. For most they buy HDB from HDB. 60% drop are unlikely.
So u dabble in private its also at ur risk. u are the % of folks who are richer.
So to address the folks with HDB and perhaps run into payment problem with banks or go bankrupt .
if 20% downpayment,property value drop to 60%. bank seized the property.
scenario 1: all dp in cash
i lose all my 20% downpayment money and i owe the bank additional 20%.
if u go bankrupt. u still have the 20% in CPF. If you are 50% paid up using CPF to pay ur mthly housing cost CPF still have the 1st bite on your foreclosure. then the banks. So you still have 50% or what ever u have paid via CPF. u are bankrupt or u owe the bank the delta.
scenario 2: 15% dp in cash, 5% in cpf.
i lose all my 15% cash downpayment, 5% of proceeds goes back to cpf. i owe the bank additional 25%.
Same as above. 5% CPF + 45% from mthly installment using CPF. or what ever amount being paid vial mthly installment.
Since when CPF suppose to reduce the % u owe the bank. If the bank have 1st bite at ur $ from the sale. u get zero anyway. coz its a lost sale. Its not the CPF role to be responsible for your lost but as a safety net where CPF gets 1st bite at the sales proceed. Then u can come and say the house u paid become ZERO thats 100% lost. but it wont happen to 100% lost. especially u buy from HDB. u go buy private then tats for the richer folks.
Thats why when u go bank ask for bank loan they will always ask u are u using CPF to pay. especially the 2nd home. they are not too keen to give u higher leverage rate if you are using CPF backsically they risk have difficulty recovering the all the $ when CPF is involved.
"Good Question" ... I am also scratching my head....
Personally, I think CPF is a good tool (for forced savings). However, the garment cannot keep raising the bar for withdrawing age/amount and increasing the minimum sum.
Afterall, truly, these are OUR OWN $$$. why we can't take control of our own $$$ after a certain age ? ... 死了也看不到钱....
True every want want to take control of their $. but some dont know at they do with it. take control liao spend on mei mei. and after that expect state to take care. anyway thats is debatable. some people here think other wise. anyway to each his own. if people want to die why cannot.
but like all insurance. the CPF to generate a decent return they have to be in some instruments long or short. and if everyone want to take out at one go. then it would also impact the existing folks its going to take care of. sure if everyone want to like take out as and when they want. then maybe CPF will pay u interest like the bank rate which is way lower than inflation rate.
but its also unfair to say u cannot take out entirely. there are many methods if u are savvy. invest it in shares. buy a home n collect rent. etc. there are ways. but not many people are that savvy or risk adverse. Some want bao jia no risk coz they cannot sleep.
Anyway its moving towards the insurance model like the west to offload the risk to insurance company. Coz without new working population the CPF model in the current mode might not be able to substain with the current interest pay out.
Regulators
13-05-13, 17:30
what insurance are you talking about?? you mean cpf takes care of all our medical expenses pertaining to critical illness, personal accidents n total permanent disability? what nonsense are you sprouting? I have to fork out hard cash of about $1k monthly to pay my own insurance, what has cpf done for me. you must differentiate between savings n insurance. withthe ageing population, the govt will surely fxxk with our money more n increase minimum sum even higher in future to avoid massive depletion, but again what right do they have to mess with our money? your theory of cpf safeguarding our money from China mei mei is really stale, maybe that only applies to people like you :doh:
True every want want to take control of their $. but some dont know at they do with it. take control liao spend on mei mei. and after that expect state to take care. anyway thats is debatable. some people here think other wise. anyway to each his own. if people want to die why cannot.
but like all insurance. the CPF to generate a decent return they have to be in some instruments long or short. and if everyone want to take out at one go. then it would also impact the existing folks its going to take care of. sure if everyone want to like take out as and when they want. then maybe CPF will pay u interest like the bank rate which is way lower than inflation rate.
but its also unfair to say u cannot take out entirely. there are many methods if u are savvy. invest it in shares. buy a home n collect rent. etc. there are ways. but not many people are that savvy or risk adverse. Some want bao jia no risk coz they cannot sleep.
Anyway its moving towards the insurance model like the west to offload the risk to insurance company. Coz without new working population the CPF model in the current mode might not be able to substain with the current interest pay out.
Please note that $108k I mentioned is lump sum from start, so I haven't include the return from the lump sum yet, which I assume will cancel out inflation, so inflation effect already included.
As I said, if gov believe $450 pm pp is sufficient, then this figure should be used for min sum calculation. Alternatively are you saying $450 pm pp is insufficient & gov purposely underpay to starve these people? Surely not right! So I believe my conclusion is right that $108k is sufficient based on gov assistance of $450 pm pp.
that is because of inflation loh, $450pm is sufficient does not mean 20y later is sufficient
pls also note my original assumption that both husband/wife must work to achieve CPF SA min sum at age of 55 to secure income after 65 after CPF Life ... it is not that easy hoh, how many ppl today at 55 has achieved CPF SA min sum? Probably 50%?
what insurance are you talking about?? you mean cpf takes care of all our medical expenses pertaining to critical illness, personal accidents n total permanent disability? what nonsense are you sprouting? I have to fork out hard cash of about $1k monthly to pay my own insurance, what has cpf done for me. you must differentiate between savings n insurance. withthe ageing population, the govt will surely fxxk with our money more n increase minimum sum even higher in future to avoid massive depletion, but again what right do they have to mess with our money? your theory of cpf safeguarding our money from China mei mei is really stale, maybe that only applies to people like you :doh:
Aiyo I feel like talking to a senile. CPF is use as a insurance tool to prevent u from total lost in event u go bankrupt . Or u go borrow money from ah long can they touch ur cpf? Min u still have $ in cpf.
I m really talking to another dumb dick expecting everything in the country to be free.
felicia_sg
13-05-13, 20:50
Just because a few people like you cannot control your money & will any how spend on china mei mei, you said the gov need to lock up everybody's CPF.
Just because you can't manage your wealth & will also any how spend on china mei mei, do the gov need to take control of everybody's wealth & manage for them? :doh:
You want gov to take care of your money because of your uselessness please go ahead, don't expect everybody to be like you. :p
True every want want to take control of their $. but some dont know at they do with it. take control liao spend on mei mei. and after that expect state to take care. anyway thats is debatable. some people here think other wise. anyway to each his own. if people want to die why cannot.
but like all insurance. the CPF to generate a decent return they have to be in some instruments long or short. and if everyone want to take out at one go. then it would also impact the existing folks its going to take care of. sure if everyone want to like take out as and when they want. then maybe CPF will pay u interest like the bank rate which is way lower than inflation rate.
but its also unfair to say u cannot take out entirely. there are many methods if u are savvy. invest it in shares. buy a home n collect rent. etc. there are ways. but not many people are that savvy or risk adverse. Some want bao jia no risk coz they cannot sleep.
Anyway its moving towards the insurance model like the west to offload the risk to insurance company. Coz without new working population the CPF model in the current mode might not be able to substain with the current interest pay out.
Just because a few people like you cannot control your money & will any how spend on china mei mei, you said the gov need to lock up everybody's CPF.
Just because you can't manage your wealth & will also any how spend on china mei mei, do the gov need to take control of everybody's wealth & manage for them? :doh:
You want gov to take care of your money because of your uselessness please go ahead, don't expect everybody to be like you. :p
well up to u. u are entitled ur view. u think everyone are able to plan? hah.. lol...
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
u all talk like singapore is the only place? every developed country have some form of social security tax. so argue all u want.
so?
Regulators
13-05-13, 22:47
who is the dumb dick here, you applaud the govt for coming up with some stupid law to restrict people's money coz your money might get swindled by some china mei mei? what a dick head. I did not say things should be free in Singapore, I simply don't see the benefit of cpf for an entire nation which evidently only serves to protect a very small minority of dumb asses like you who will trade your hard earned money for a pair of made in China boobs :doh:
Aiyo I feel like talking to a senile. CPF is use as a insurance tool to prevent u from total lost in event u go bankrupt . Or u go borrow money from ah long can they touch ur cpf? Min u still have $ in cpf.
I m really talking to another dumb dick expecting everything in the country to be free.
who is the dumb dick here, you applaud the govt for coming up with some stupid law to restrict people's money coz your money might get swindled by some china mei mei? what a dick head. I did not say things should be free in Singapore, I simply don't see the benefit of cpf for an entire nation which evidently only serves to protect a very small minority of dumb asses like you who will trade your hard earned money for a pair of made in China boobs :doh:
Well here u go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUwRbpnsaIk&feature=player_embedded
they systems are to ensure people have $ to retire. u want to jump jump on china mei mei coz I site it as example.
up to u. can be china mei mei, can be buy 4D can be son take all the parents $ , can be any dumb shit people do.
so? u are mean there are no people out there that have no idea how to plan or safe. So dont talk like its not happening.
Donno who is the dumb dick. I think u are selfish. like the hee hee all u site on a high chair KPKB and are selfish.
who is the dumb dick here, you applaud the govt for coming up with some stupid law to restrict people's money coz your money might get swindled by some china mei mei? what a dick head. I did not say things should be free in Singapore, I simply don't see the benefit of cpf for an entire nation which evidently only serves to protect a very small minority of dumb asses like you who will trade your hard earned money for a pair of made in China boobs :doh:
Let me Quote u.
" you mean cpf takes care of all our medical expenses pertaining to critical illness, personal accidents n total permanent disability? what nonsense are you sprouting? I have to fork out hard cash of about $1k monthly to pay my own insurance, "
Sure u have to pay for ur own insurance! u wat u expect free?
I am saying CPF is a insurance for people to retire n have some saving. "INSURANCE" u stupid take it liteterially as free insurance so kang jong.
Those that can plan well CPF in the end is just kopi $ in the gerying years. Those who never plan or suffer some setback in life at least have some $ to survive. U are rich $ to u might be kopi $ but to poor people this is a lot.
so u can kpkb all u want. small minority? lol its not a small minority its a large majority who never plan.
LESS THAN a third have a retirement plan.
http://www.btinvest.com.sg/wealth/retirement-plans/gap-retirement-planning-here-poll-20130112/
Gap in retirement planning here: poll
12 Jan 2013 09:03 by BY ANDREA SOH
HAVING a big enough nest egg for retirement may be one of Singaporeans' topmost financial concerns, but half of them don't know how much they would need.
Even fewer - or one-third - have a formal retirement plan, an annual survey by Citibank revealed.
Men are more likely than women to know how much they need for retirement, and to have a formal retirement plan.
According to the Citi Financial Quotient Survey, the top three financial concerns of Singapore residents are building their savings, doing a better job saving for retirement, and looking for a better-paying job.
To build up their retirement portfolio, most start on a regular cash savings plan (48 per cent), and invest in real estate (39 per cent) or stocks (35 per cent).
"Retirement awareness is high in Singapore, but the survey suggests a gap in the retirement planning competency," said Shrikant Bhat, Citibank head of wealth management. "A thorough assessment of one's current and future expenses and lifestyle is the first and most important step in determining one's retirement needs. This also needs to be reviewed and updated regularly."
In a sign that Singaporeans are becoming more financially-savvy, the financial quotient score for Singapore was 57.4 last year - the highest score in the past six years - up from 56 in 2011. The maximum score is 100.
The survey was conducted by CXC Research for Citi in October last year. The online questionnaire included over 80 questions ranging from the respondent's current approach to budgeting and credit card payment patterns to investing knowledge level.
The survey findings are based on 500 respondents with an average annual income of $99,000.
Regulators
14-05-13, 01:36
can't believe you would believe some of the trash you read in the newspaper n you obviously can't differentiate what is govt propaganda n what is not. I believe you must have missed the news about Singapore being ranked 149 in the world for press freedom :doh:
LESS THAN a third have a retirement plan.
http://www.btinvest.com.sg/wealth/retirement-plans/gap-retirement-planning-here-poll-20130112/
Gap in retirement planning here: poll
12 Jan 2013 09:03 by BY ANDREA SOH
HAVING a big enough nest egg for retirement may be one of Singaporeans' topmost financial concerns, but half of them don't know how much they would need.
Even fewer - or one-third - have a formal retirement plan, an annual survey by Citibank revealed.
Men are more likely than women to know how much they need for retirement, and to have a formal retirement plan.
According to the Citi Financial Quotient Survey, the top three financial concerns of Singapore residents are building their savings, doing a better job saving for retirement, and looking for a better-paying job.
To build up their retirement portfolio, most start on a regular cash savings plan (48 per cent), and invest in real estate (39 per cent) or stocks (35 per cent).
"Retirement awareness is high in Singapore, but the survey suggests a gap in the retirement planning competency," said Shrikant Bhat, Citibank head of wealth management. "A thorough assessment of one's current and future expenses and lifestyle is the first and most important step in determining one's retirement needs. This also needs to be reviewed and updated regularly."
In a sign that Singaporeans are becoming more financially-savvy, the financial quotient score for Singapore was 57.4 last year - the highest score in the past six years - up from 56 in 2011. The maximum score is 100.
The survey was conducted by CXC Research for Citi in October last year. The online questionnaire included over 80 questions ranging from the respondent's current approach to budgeting and credit card payment patterns to investing knowledge level.
The survey findings are based on 500 respondents with an average annual income of $99,000.
Regulators
14-05-13, 01:51
so the safety net is still meant for those nutheads like you who can't plan, isn't it? in that case, why didn't govt reserve cpf for nutheads like you n allow financially savvy people like the majority of Singaporeans to opt out? if majority of Singaporeans are financial goons, would we have among the highest per capita household income in the world? use your dickhead to think...
Let me Quote u.
" you mean cpf takes care of all our medical expenses pertaining to critical illness, personal accidents n total permanent disability? what nonsense are you sprouting? I have to fork out hard cash of about $1k monthly to pay my own insurance, "
Sure u have to pay for ur own insurance! u wat u expect free?
I am saying CPF is a insurance for people to retire n have some saving. "INSURANCE" u stupid take it liteterially as free insurance so kang jong.
Those that can plan well CPF in the end is just kopi $ in the gerying years. Those who never plan or suffer some setback in life at least have some $ to survive. U are rich $ to u might be kopi $ but to poor people this is a lot.
so u can kpkb all u want. small minority? lol its not a small minority its a large majority who never plan.
so the safety net is still meant for those nutheads like you who can't plan, isn't it? in that case, why didn't govt reserve cpf for nutheads like you n allow financially savvy people like the majority of Singaporeans to opt out? if majority of Singaporeans are financial goons, would we have among the highest per capita household income in the world? use your dickhead to think...
u are a waste of time. majority? 1/3 only have plan. less than 50% are savy. wat majority cock u talking.
can't believe you would believe some of the trash you read in the newspaper n you obviously can't differentiate what is govt propaganda n what is not. I believe you must have missed the news about Singapore being ranked 149 in the world for press freedom :doh:
LOL.. news papaers are trash so wat u say I must take it as truth? wat utter rubbish. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Its citibank dumb ass. Quote from citibank stupid.
Not only a singapore problem. many place people didnt plan well enough.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/072195e4-3ae4-11e2-bb32-00144feabdc0.html
A sweeping review of how people save for, and plan, their pensions published this week found that the majority of people miscalculate their income in retirement.
The report, by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, an independent think-tank, on behalf of the National Association of Pension Funds found that across all income ranges, savers with defined contribution pensions had difficulty predicting their life exp*ectancy and were therefore less likely to know how much they needed to save for the future.
Only 1/3 can plan? You believe in the 149th press and quoting from there? :p
To me, read everything with a pinch of salt, regardless of whatever press, everywhere. :rolleyes:
u are a waste of time. majority? 1/3 only have plan. less than 50% are savy. wat majority cock u talking.
Only 1/3 can plan? You believe in the 149th press and quoting from there? :p
To me, read everything with a pinch of salt, regardless of whatever press, everywhere. :rolleyes:
So I must take wat stupid rubbish u say as truth? lol :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
At least the news papers can be held accountable and show the source of quotes. u? u hide behind that keyboard of your and KBKP. and urs is the truth? totally no accountability and selfish GST crap.
Everything also GST.. I guess newspaper also charge u GST right!!! so bay song?
To me, read everything with a pinch of salt, regardless of whatever press, everywhere. :rolleyes:
UK tried to lock in their more of their citizen's money, without much success.
HK tried to milk more money from their citizens by trying to implement GST, but failed because their citizens are smart enough to elect MPs who know how to take care of their benefits.
The above are just reality happening around the world.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/072195e4-3ae4-11e2-bb32-00144feabdc0.html
A sweeping review of how people save for, and plan, their pensions published this week found that the majority of people miscalculate their income in retirement.
The report, by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, an independent think-tank, on behalf of the National Association of Pension Funds found that across all income ranges, savers with defined contribution pensions had difficulty predicting their life exp*ectancy and were therefore less likely to know how much they needed to save for the future.
To me, read everything with a pinch of salt, regardless of whatever press, everywhere. :rolleyes:
UK tried to lock in their more of their citizen's money, without much success.
HK tried to milk more money from their citizens by trying to implement GST, but failed because their citizens are smart enough to elect MPs who know how to take care of their benefits.
The above are just reality happening around the world.
yes yes yes I think u need to go to the moon. Earth have no place for u coz everywhere charge u something..Oppss u expecting like the dumb ah pek hee hee free?
Space is free! oppss GST will be charged to send ur sorry ass there!
stupid bear.. eat this for breakfast!
List of countries in ASEAN and their GST IVAT implementation dates
Country Year Initial Rate (%) Curent Rate (%)
Indonesia 1984 10 10
Cambodia 1999 10 10
Laos 2009 10 10
Philippines 1998 10 12
Singapore 1993 3 7
Thailand 1992 7 10
Vietnam 1999 10 10
SGP one of the lowest GST in asia. 7%..
opps looks like asia no place for u to go! u should just go breath some fresh air in Hongkong and save that 7% there. u are always welcome back for lung replacement in singapore.
stupid bear.. eat this for breakfast!
List of countries in ASEAN and their GST IVAT implementation dates
Country Year Initial Rate (%) Curent Rate (%)
Indonesia 1984 10 10
Cambodia 1999 10 10
Laos 2009 10 10
Philippines 1998 10 12
Singapore 1993 3 7
Thailand 1992 7 10
Vietnam 1999 10 10
SGP one of the lowest GST in asia. 7%..
opps looks like asia no place for u to go! u should just go breath some fresh air in Hongkong and save that 7% there. u are always welcome back for lung replacement in singapore.
Minority - you sure is a minority here.
Value-added-Tax (VAT) or GST is a commonly accepted idea of indirect taxation BUT in UNIQUELY Singapore you are OVERTAXED via COE, ERP, and a host of other unnecessary taxations eg sanitation fees , previously TV/radio taxes whereas ESTATE DUTIES is being abolished. WE have regressive INCOME TAX where the rich are actually taxed LESS and the majority have to pay GST when they have NO INCOME and that includes paying your cremation GST fees. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Now you know why we allowed 6.9 million here - Tax haven for the super rich. we are replacing Switzerland This is a City in the making no longer a country that's why Hong Lim Park protest:doh: :doh: :doh:
Minority - you sure is a minority here.
Value-added-Tax (VAT) or GST is a commonly accepted idea of indirect taxation BUT in UNIQUELY Singapore you are OVERTAXED via COE, ERP, and a host of other unnecessary taxations eg sanitation fees , previously TV/radio taxes whereas ESTATE DUTIES is being abolished. WE have regressive INCOME TAX where the rich are actually taxed LESS and the majority have to pay GST when they have NO INCOME and that includes paying your cremation GST fees. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Now you know why we allowed 6.9 million here - Tax haven for the super rich. we are replacing Switzerland This is a City in the making no longer a country that's why Hong Lim Park protest:doh: :doh: :doh:
Wait wait now GST is not a problem Liao? I m hearing the crazy bear kpkb abt it so u say its normal to have consumption tax? Hurray
Btw London also have some form of ERP . Hong Kong also have property tax levy. US have state n federal tax. N social security tax.
Ehhh so sibgapore very unique meh.!
Well at least we have $3 chicken rice. Yes there are also places sell at $1.50.
Have that price in ny? Not even hot dog stand sell u hot dog at $3 or $1.5 sgd.
Minority - you sure is a minority here.
Value-added-Tax (VAT) or GST is a commonly accepted idea of indirect taxation BUT in UNIQUELY Singapore you are OVERTAXED via COE, ERP, and a host of other unnecessary taxations eg sanitation fees , previously TV/radio taxes whereas ESTATE DUTIES is being abolished. WE have regressive INCOME TAX where the rich are actually taxed LESS and the majority have to pay GST when they have NO INCOME and that includes paying your cremation GST fees. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Now you know why we allowed 6.9 million here - Tax haven for the super rich. we are replacing Switzerland This is a City in the making no longer a country that's why Hong Lim Park protest:doh: :doh: :doh:
Wait wait now GST is not a problem Liao? I m hearing the crazy bear kpkb abt it so u say its normal to have consumption tax? Hurray
Btw London also have some form of ERP . Hong Kong also have property tax levy. US have state n federal tax. N social security tax.
Ehhh so sibgapore very unique meh.!
Well at least we have $3 chicken rice. Yes there are also places sell at $1.50.
Have that price in ny? Not even hot dog stand sell u hot dog at $3 or $1.5 sgd.
Wait wait now GST is not a problem Liao? I m hearing the crazy bear kpkb abt it so u say its normal to have consumption tax? Hurray
Btw London also have some form of ERP . Hong Kong also have property tax levy. US have state n federal tax. N social security tax.
Ehhh so sibgapore very unique meh.!
Well at least we have $3 chicken rice. Yes there are also places sell at $1.50.
Have that price in ny? Not even hot dog stand sell u hot dog at $3 or $1.5 sgd.
I have ZERO interest in engaging you b'cos you always SIDE-TRACKed the main issues in discussion. :D
I have ZERO interest in engaging you b'cos you always SIDE-TRACKed the main issues in discussion. :D
Side track? this is the best u can get. u are the 1 agree and that bring up GST is normal. which i agree GST is normal. And the crazy bear is kpkb ing abt it being like unique singapore problem.
I am addressing u in the face. we are not unique to have taxation on consumption etc. there are more forms of taxation in other countries which u plainly ignore. and say we are worst n unique.
I say we are not unique.
CPF is not a TAX get it right. u get it back. u can argue the time frame etc. u will get it back over time. and there are many ways to access it. housing, insurance, education etc.
rich people like the folks here look down on CPF coz they dont need it. to the pooer folks that have no plan or to people that fail to plan its a fall back option.
So don't SIAM if u cannot hold water to ur statement.
Regulators
14-05-13, 11:41
You are the perfect type of nuthead for the govt n media to brainwash :doh:
LOL.. news papaers are trash so wat u say I must take it as truth? wat utter rubbish. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Its citibank dumb ass. Quote from citibank stupid.
GST/VAT/... is normal only when basic necessities like food, medicine etc are exempted from such tax.
Singapore GST is not normal because no such exemption.
Therefore, Eg VAT of 20% in UK is only equivalent to 0.5% of SG GST for average family because of basic necessities exemption.
Therefore, please stop misleading people that SG GST of 7% is very low compared to eg UK VAT of 20%! We know you are just sprouting nonsense.
Oh, forgot to add that SG is the only country in the world where GST with no basic necessities exemption has been implemented so that the rich can have a tax cut of 13%. Need we say more?
Side track? this is the best u can get. u are the 1 agree and that bring up GST is normal. which i agree GST is normal. And the crazy bear is kpkb ing abt it being like unique singapore problem.
I am addressing u in the face. we are not unique to have taxation on consumption etc. there are more forms of taxation in other countries which u plainly ignore. and say we are worst n unique.
I say we are not unique.
CPF is not a TAX get it right. u get it back. u can argue the time frame etc. u will get it back over time. and there are many ways to access it. housing, insurance, education etc.
rich people like the folks here look down on CPF coz they dont need it. to the pooer folks that have no plan or to people that fail to plan its a fall back option.
So don't SIAM if u cannot hold water to ur statement.
GST/VAT/... is normal only when basic necessities like food, medicine etc are exempted from such tax.
Singapore GST is not normal because no such exemption.
Therefore, Eg VAT of 20% in UK is only equivalent to 0.5% of SG GST for average family because of basic necessities exemption.
Therefore, please stop misleading people that SG GST of 7% is very low compared to eg UK VAT of 20%! We know you are just sprouting nonsense.
So u mean exempted ur chicken rice will be $1? I dont see such exemption in US, Japan etc. there are some places perhaps exempted.
sure u want to say UK zero VAT on food. so have SGD $1.5 chicken rice there? Does zeroing out VAT on those consumable make the price of the consumable cheap? Cheapest oily Fish n Chip wrap in news papers $4-5 pound. go marks n spensers buy a sandwitch is $2-3 pound. want buy near expire food from marks n spence $1-2 pound. but meal? like a dish $1.5 - $3.5 SGD have bo?
even sure hk no tax! but chicken rice got $1? there? $1.5 have bo? u can say Singapore only some place have $1.5. well at least there is $1.5 at some place.
dont so naive everything blame on GST. if so u should go retire in UK or HK. no tax on food there. why u still here.
Heard during lunch time that the interest rate of CPF special account will
be reduced to 2.5% from end of this year. Can anyone here confirm it?
You are the perfect type of nuthead for the govt n media to brainwash :doh:
u are the right type of nut head that believe in all the shit u read online. When face with the truth. just plainly cannot accept it.
ok ok singapore is the worst place on earth. why are u still here? u can leave nothing stoping u to go. its a globalized world.
Singapore so bad I am sure at a blink of and eye u will be able to find a safe haven where there are no tax, car and house are almost free and medical near zero cost and you dont need to work for life while the state take care of all ur needs.
Go Go. I think its good for u.
Some more when u leave u can take back ur CPF!!! isnt that wat u wanted?
Regulators
14-05-13, 14:25
Just to add, uk has high vat but whatever taxes ppl pay goes to social welfare.
GST/VAT/... is normal only when basic necessities like food, medicine etc are exempted from such tax.
Singapore GST is not normal because no such exemption.
Therefore, Eg VAT of 20% in UK is only equivalent to 0.5% of SG GST for average family because of basic necessities exemption.
Therefore, please stop misleading people that SG GST of 7% is very low compared to eg UK VAT of 20%! We know you are just sprouting nonsense.
Oh, forgot to add that SG is the only country in the world where GST with no basic necessities exemption has been implemented so that the rich can have a tax cut of 13%. Need we say more?
Regulators
14-05-13, 14:28
For tying ppl's money down for decades , cpf really paying peanuts interest. I would rather take my chances with aussie dollar deposit that offers more than 4% interest.
Heard during lunch time that the interest rate of CPF special account will
be reduced to 2.5% from end of this year. Can anyone here confirm it?
Just to add, uk has high vat but whatever taxes ppl pay goes to social welfare.
oh really? not the high income tax too in UK? Interesting u mention social welfare. Isnt UK moving toward what singapore is doing. similar to workfare. encourage people to work. and not loaf on welfare system? with that our GST still 7% no need to increase. chicken rice $3.5. so we so unique in the world meh?
https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/simplifying-the-welfare-system-and-making-sure-work-pays
Issue
Many people on benefits believe that the financial risks of moving into work are too great. For some, the gains from work, particularly if they work part-time, are small, and any gain can easily be cancelled out by costs such as transport.
The government believes that the current system is too complex and there are insufficient incentives to encourage people on benefits to start paid work or increase their hours.
We are aiming to make the benefit system fairer and more affordable to help reduce poverty, worklessness and welfare dependency and to reduce levels of fraud and error.
Introducing Universal Credit
Introducing a cap on the amount of benefits working age people can receive
Making sure housing support is fair and affordable
Improving the Work Capability Assessment
etc.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303120/Mick-Philpott-vile-product-Welfare-UK-Derby-man-bred-17-babies-milk-benefits-GUILTY-killing-six.html
Vile product of Welfare UK: Man who bred 17 babies by five women to milk benefits system is guilty of killing six of them
Mick Philpott treated his children like cash cows generating £60,000 a year in benefits
He plotted to set fire to the family home with his wife Mairead to frame Philpott’s former live-in lover Lisa Willis
The gamble was to save the youngsters, win back custody and get a bigger council house
After he was convicted, it also emerged that ‘Shameless Mick’ faces a fresh police investigation for allegedly raping a woman
He was jailed for trying to kill a schoolgirl lover, stabbing her 27 times after she ended their relationship
He planned to ‘get rich quick’ – turning funeral funds donated by the local community into Argos vouchers
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303120/Mick-Philpott-vile-product-Welfare-UK-Derby-man-bred-17-babies-milk-benefits-GUILTY-killing-six.html#ixzz2TFmvjXpa
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Regulators
14-05-13, 18:24
If we do not have welfare , it is ok , but if we can't even use our own money to build a safety net for ourselves because the govt is stopping us from doing so, shouldn't the govt be blasted for that ? I can't even use my cpf money to purchase critical illness , total permanent disability n life insurance from AIA , you think this is acceptable ? Go and continue sucking up to pap like a dog n I hope the minimum sum increases to $1 million so nutheads like you can continue leaving your money inside n let temasek n gic spend it for you:doh:
oh really? not the high income tax too in UK? Interesting u mention social welfare. Isnt UK moving toward what singapore is doing. similar to workfare. encourage people to work. and not loaf on welfare system? with that our GST still 7% no need to increase. chicken rice $3.5. so we so unique in the world meh?
https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/simplifying-the-welfare-system-and-making-sure-work-pays
Issue
Many people on benefits believe that the financial risks of moving into work are too great. For some, the gains from work, particularly if they work part-time, are small, and any gain can easily be cancelled out by costs such as transport.
The government believes that the current system is too complex and there are insufficient incentives to encourage people on benefits to start paid work or increase their hours.
We are aiming to make the benefit system fairer and more affordable to help reduce poverty, worklessness and welfare dependency and to reduce levels of fraud and error.
Introducing Universal Credit
Introducing a cap on the amount of benefits working age people can receive
Making sure housing support is fair and affordable
Improving the Work Capability Assessment
etc.....
If we do not have welfare , it is ok , but if we can't even use our own money to build a safety net for ourselves because the govt is stopping us from doing so, shouldn't the govt be blasted for that ? I can't even use my cpf money to purchase critical illness , total permanent disability n life insurance from AIA , you think this is acceptable ? Go and continue sucking up to pap like a dog n I hope the minimum sum increases to $1 million so nutheads like you can continue leaving your money inside n let temasek n gic spend it for you:doh:
lol sucking up? I am presenting u the fact in UK since u talk abt uk. then u go off tangent 1M min sum sure why not. then it would means my pay will be 50K mth? sound not too bad then.
stopping u? cannot use it for equity? cannot use it for housing and collect rent? cannot meh? lol... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Regulators
14-05-13, 19:32
Try calling up cpf n tell them you want to improve your medical cover ith AIA using your cpf money n see what they tell you. Who gives a shit about the 2.5% interest given in the cpf account when the money can be used to increase medical cover by few hundred thousand to millions by taking up insurance policies which helps to protect you in certain medical events. Why is the govt stopping from covering ourselves ?
lol sucking up? I am presenting u the fact in UK since u talk abt uk. then u go off tangent 1M min sum sure why not. then it would means my pay will be 50K mth? sound not too bad then.
stopping u? cannot use it for equity? cannot use it for housing and collect rent? cannot meh? lol... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
felicia_sg
14-05-13, 20:33
You can't read is it?
Didn't many people including hee hee here say UK 20% VAT because of exemptions is like only 0.5% of Singapore GST? So you still saying 7% GST very low compared to 20% VAT? But then what can we expect from you, who is still trying to mislead people about this fact, you a swine, no moral character...
oh really? not the high income tax too in UK? Interesting u mention social welfare. Isnt UK moving toward what singapore is doing. similar to workfare. encourage people to work. and not loaf on welfare system? with that our GST still 7% no need to increase. chicken rice $3.5. so we so unique in the world meh?
https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/simplifying-the-welfare-system-and-making-sure-work-pays
Issue
Many people on benefits believe that the financial risks of moving into work are too great. For some, the gains from work, particularly if they work part-time, are small, and any gain can easily be cancelled out by costs such as transport.
The government believes that the current system is too complex and there are insufficient incentives to encourage people on benefits to start paid work or increase their hours.
We are aiming to make the benefit system fairer and more affordable to help reduce poverty, worklessness and welfare dependency and to reduce levels of fraud and error.
Introducing Universal Credit
Introducing a cap on the amount of benefits working age people can receive
Making sure housing support is fair and affordable
Improving the Work Capability Assessment
etc.....
You can't read is it?
Didn't many people including hee hee here say UK 20% VAT because of exemptions is like only 0.5% of Singapore GST? So you still saying 7% GST very low compared to 20% VAT? But then what can we expect from you, who is still trying to mislead people about this fact, you a swine, no moral character...
U are the 1 with selective reading skills. So wat u zero the essential! Like I say zero it still how much a sandwich or road dide oily fish n chips in uk? U want to compare uk but U turn a blind eye we have access to chicken rice at 3.5 n even 1.5!
I point that out so many times n then me reg here say it goes to welfare good! So I show u welfare.
Pls
Go back to school learn to read n understand before u jump ard like a mad cow.
Try calling up cpf n tell them you want to improve your medical cover ith AIA using your cpf money n see what they tell you. Who gives a shit about the 2.5% interest given in the cpf account when the money can be used to increase medical cover by few hundred thousand to millions by taking up insurance policies which helps to protect you in certain medical events. Why is the govt stopping from covering ourselves ?
Talk cock who says can't. I hold a few policies paid out of cpf. Don't talk cock never c cock.
Mine are even investment link! Which is not view too risky becoz dumb dicks like u anyhow buy n never read.
Try calling up cpf n tell them you want to improve your medical cover ith AIA using your cpf money n see what they tell you. Who gives a shit about the 2.5% interest given in the cpf account when the money can be used to increase medical cover by few hundred thousand to millions by taking up insurance policies which helps to protect you in certain medical events. Why is the govt stopping from covering ourselves ?
Who f care abt insurance . I put in equity , collect rent , buy insurance , send my kids to uni n pay for my house ! With wat! CPF!
Regulators
14-05-13, 21:14
What a dumbass as usual. You saying cpf allows you to buy all health policies sold by all authorised insurers in Singapore? Does it include life policies that can protect your family members when you die? Does it include accident plans for ppl doing risky jobs to bring home the bacon for the family ? Did cpf cap you on how much you can use n why if it is for your good ? Insurance also comes with savings element so why can't ppl opt to save money with an insurer?
Talk cock who says can't. I hold a few policies paid out of cpf. Don't talk cock never c cock.
Mine are even investment link! Which is not view too risky becoz dumb dicks like u anyhow buy n never read.
You must be very ignorant is it?
You want to compare like that without comparing salary?
Ok, here it goes: a cleaner in UK earns about GBP 2,000 pm or S$4000 pm, just normal working hours only.
A cleaner in Singapore earns $800 pm.
Road side Fish & Chip GBP 2.50 or S$5, vs your chicken rice S$3.50. Both not healthy, so comparable.
The cleaner in UK can afford a car, GBP 10,000 or S$20,000.
The cleaner in Singapore can afford a car or not?! :doh:
Who is better off hah? :p
U are the 1 with selective reading skills. So wat u zero the essential! Like I say zero it still how much a sandwich or road dide oily fish n chips in uk? U want to compare uk but U turn a blind eye we have access to chicken rice at 3.5 n even 1.5!
I point that out so many times n then me reg here say it goes to welfare good! So I show u welfare.
Pls
Go back to school learn to read n understand before u jump ard like a mad cow.
What a dumbass as usual. You saying cpf allows you to buy all health policies sold by all authorised insurers in Singapore? Does it include life policies that can protect your family members when you die? Does it include accident plans for ppl doing risky jobs to bring home the bacon for the family ? Did cpf cap you on how much you can use n why if it is for your good ? Insurance also comes with savings element so why can't ppl opt to save money with an insurer?
U r really stupid. Base on ur Analogy so Cpf cannot buy car too! So no good. Do I care can buy all insurance in the world? I don't fcare I easily can pay the 2k for 1m coverage who care use Cpf! I buy house buy insurance for myself send kid to school. Who care ur logic?
Do u need Cpf to pay for ur dildo too?
You must be very ignorant is it?
You want to compare like that without comparing salary?
Ok, here it goes: a cleaner in UK earns about GBP 2,000 pm or S$4000 pm, just normal working hours only.
A cleaner in Singapore earns $800 pm.
Road side Fish & Chip GBP 2.50 or S$5, vs your chicken rice S$3.50. Both not healthy, so comparable.
The cleaner in UK can afford a car, GBP 10,000 or S$20,000.
The cleaner in Singapore can afford a car or not?! :doh:
Who is better off hah? :p
U must be ignorant too. Wats the income tax there by the way ah?
Regulators
14-05-13, 21:53
We are debating about cpf providing for a safety net so obviously we are debating the use of cpf money to pay for insurance. Medical cost is obviously one of the most pressing issues for retirees n old age so obviously using cpf to pay for insurance is a valid suggestion. What a stupid dumbass u r for not following the line of argument.
U r really stupid. Base on ur Analogy so Cpf cannot buy car too! So no good. Do I care can buy all insurance in the world? I don't fcare I easily can pay the 2k for 1m coverage who care use Cpf! I buy house buy insurance for myself send kid to school. Who care ur logic?
Do u need Cpf to pay for ur dildo too?
You must be very ignorant is it?
You want to compare like that without comparing salary?
Ok, here it goes: a cleaner in UK earns about GBP 2,000 pm or S$4000 pm, just normal working hours only.
A cleaner in Singapore earns $800 pm.
Road side Fish & Chip GBP 2.50 or S$5, vs your chicken rice S$3.50. Both not healthy, so comparable.
The cleaner in UK can afford a car, GBP 10,000 or S$20,000.
The cleaner in Singapore can afford a car or not?! :doh:
Who is better off hah? :p
Don't fudge the no. Fish is 2,5 small no chips. U expect the ang mor eat small ? And chips cost 1.2 to go. So min 1 meal cost 3.7 to 5 pound which is 10 sgd. versed 3.5 or 1.5 chicken rice.
Cleaner salary is pay by hr. ard 7 pound. Avg p, is abt 1300 pound. To 1600 pound.
U factor tax in. Wat they get?
We are debating about cpf providing for a safety net so obviously we are debating the use of cpf money to pay for insurance. Medical cost is obviously one of the most pressing issues for retirees n old age so obviously using cpf to pay for insurance is a valid suggestion. What a stupid dumbass u r for not following the line of argument.
Well I m buying insurance with it! Medisafe is used to buy medical insurance too! I m using that too!
Duh!
This is what we call selective of facts mixed with lies...
Cleaners paid by hours and only earn <GBP 1600 pm? Fish & Chips no GBP 2.50?
GBP 2.50 f&c is better your bastard lies of $1.50 chicken rice!
Cleaners in UK can afford cars, Singapore cleaners can?
Cleaners in UK can get unemployment job benefits! Singapore have or not?
Cleaners in UK got no job get better benefits than working, Singapore got or not? :tongue3:
So conclusion? Better be cleaners in UK than in SG!
Don't fudge the no. Fish is 2,5 small no chips. U expect the ang mor eat small ? And chips cost 1.2 to go. So min 1 meal cost 3.7 to 5 pound which is 10 sgd. versed 3.5 or 1.5 chicken rice.
Cleaner salary is pay by hr. ard 7 pound. Avg p, is abt 1300 pound. To 1600 pound.
U factor tax in. Wat they get?
This is what we call selective of facts mixed with lies...
Cleaners paid by hours and only earn <GBP 1600 pm? Fish & Chips no GBP 2.50?
GBP 2.50 f&c is better your bastard lies of $1.50 chicken rice!
Cleaners in UK can afford cars, Singapore cleaners can?
Cleaners in UK can get unemployment job benefits! Singapore have or not?
Cleaners in UK got no job get better benefits than working, Singapore got or not? :tongue3:
So conclusion? Better be cleaners in UK than in SG!
This is what I call selective . So good why not u go be maid there?
Also get ur facts right Singapore cleaners are 1200 onwards no more 800!
Talk abt selective blindness.
This is what we call selective of facts mixed with lies...
Cleaners paid by hours and only earn <GBP 1600 pm? Fish & Chips no GBP 2.50?
GBP 2.50 f&c is better your bastard lies of $1.50 chicken rice!
Cleaners in UK can afford cars, Singapore cleaners can?
Cleaners in UK can get unemployment job benefits! Singapore have or not?
Cleaners in UK got no job get better benefits than working, Singapore got or not? :tongue3:
So conclusion? Better be cleaners in UK than in SG!
Here got worke fare!
Unemployed benifits? Loafers.! If so why be cleaners in the first place. Just collect benifits. Tock cock
Ha ha ha! Ignorant fool!
You think they really pay so high tax? They pay 40% tax, but about 20% go to social benefits, which will pay out as unemployment benefits and pension benefits when they retire!
Cleaners in UK can afford cars, Singapore cleaners can or not?
Cleaners in UK can afford landed properties, Singapore cleaners can or not? :doh:
Here got worke fare!
Unemployed benifits? Loafers.! If so why be cleaners in the first place. Just collect benifits. Tock cock
Ha ha ha! Ignorant fool!
You think they really pay so high tax? They pay 40% tax, but about 20% go to social benefits, which will pay out as unemployment benefits and pension benefits when they retire!
Cleaners in UK can afford cars, Singapore cleaners can or not?
Cleaners in UK can afford landed properties, Singapore cleaners can or not? :doh:
good good then. pls u go there be cleaner. ok. since u think its so good. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I dont need social benefit. I work for my own bread no need such useless taxed benefits to help loafers like u.
Ha ha ha! Ignorant fool!
You think they really pay so high tax? They pay 40% tax, but about 20% go to social benefits, which will pay out as unemployment benefits and pension benefits when they retire!
Cleaners in UK can afford cars, Singapore cleaners can or not?
Cleaners in UK can afford landed properties, Singapore cleaners can or not? :doh:
why must go UK pay so much tax to afforded a landed? malaysia also can afforded landed.
only fundge king like u say landed. wat kind of landed? kampong ah tat hse is landed. ok lor.
UK some grotto is landed. ok lor..
pls u go stay there. be cleaner then. good good. 1 less trash in singapore.
Regulators
15-05-13, 00:24
Oh yah , i almost forgot you will just follow like a dog the designated insurer given to you n not question why a wide range of better n more comprehensive products are not allowed to be bought using cpf money. Dogs just follow what masters tell them to do with out question. ..woof woof.... :doh:
Well I m buying insurance with it! Medisafe is used to buy medical insurance too! I m using that too!
Duh!
Regulators
15-05-13, 00:27
Of course you need benefit , cpf providing you benefit of safeguarding your money against china mei mei coz your money doomed to go to them without cpf :doh:
good good then. pls u go there be cleaner. ok. since u think its so good. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I dont need social benefit. I work for my own bread no need such useless taxed benefits to help loafers like u.
Oh yah , i almost forgot you will just follow like a dog the designated insurer given to you n not question why a wide range of better n more comprehensive products are not allowed to be bought using cpf money. Dogs just follow what masters tell them to do with out question. ..woof woof.... :doh:
Way a blind bat. Belive only the shit u see on line. Best can only see shit. Blind as a dumb ass bat. Yeah many many good insurance right when u loose ur money like those dumb ass who use cpf go buy investment link ins at a wrong age. Then loose $ .then u howl like a mad hernia why no regulation to safe guard cpf from this. Selfish people like u kpkb only. When loose to hold scam will come crying father crying mother kpkb why again no control esp important cpf.
U are another talk clock king.
Of course you need benefit , cpf providing you benefit of safeguarding your money against china mei mei coz your money doomed to go to them without cpf :doh:
Safe guard me from fools like u fuxkg up the whole country .
Regulators
15-05-13, 02:51
Your money is very "safe" now , you can go look for your pair of China boobs in geylang :tongue3:
Safe guard me from fools like u fuxkg up the whole country .
Your money is very "safe" now , you can go look for your pair of China boobs in geylang :tongue3:
Is that the best u can do?
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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