View Full Version : Be thankful that you can still afford HDB
phantom_opera
29-04-13, 18:42
More than a third of Italian men over the age of 30 live at home with their parents, a phenomenon blamed on sky-high apartment rents and bleak job prospects as much as a liking for mamma's cooking.
'Renting an apartment 30 years ago cost a quarter of the salary of a worker,' writer Aldo Nove who has penned a book called 'My Name is Roberta, I'm 40 years old and earn 250 euros a month', told Corriere della Sera newspaper.
'Today, it costs more than the salary of a young apprentice. What else is there to say?
- Italy
More than a third of Italian men over the age of 30 live at home with their parents, a phenomenon blamed on sky-high apartment rents and bleak job prospects as much as a liking for mamma's cooking.
'Renting an apartment 30 years ago cost a quarter of the salary of a worker,' writer Aldo Nove who has penned a book called 'My Name is Roberta, I'm 40 years old and earn 250 euros a month', told Corriere della Sera newspaper.
'Today, it costs more than the salary of a young apprentice. What else is there to say?
- Italy
What more can I say? Thank you Singapore for everything
thomastansb
29-04-13, 19:39
Good and bad la. More good than bad is good enough for me. Food and housing are really basic needs.
Singapore will still be okay in e next few years. Inflation at ur neighboring countries r worse for the locals. Their cost competitive advantages shd wear off in 5-10 years, just like e coastal cities in China tt r no longer cheap compare to 10 years ago.
HDB shd have been made cheaper n more easily available for citizens so tt e younger generation can set up their families more easily m have more time for families. The poor policies at HDB have screwed Singapore up, n e impact will still b felt 1-2 decades later.
with so much spare resource. I am sure farrari can now be mass produce cheaper with so much man power...
More than a third of Italian men over the age of 30 live at home with their parents, a phenomenon blamed on sky-high apartment rents and bleak job prospects as much as a liking for mamma's cooking.
'Renting an apartment 30 years ago cost a quarter of the salary of a worker,' writer Aldo Nove who has penned a book called 'My Name is Roberta, I'm 40 years old and earn 250 euros a month', told Corriere della Sera newspaper.
'Today, it costs more than the salary of a young apprentice. What else is there to say?
- Italy
some words of truth in this :)
Yes, be very thankful that only in Singapore can a Minister make a sweeping statement that HDB is losing millions and MOF has to subsidise HDB every year because of these losses.
Without having to substantiate such claims!! Without a breakdown!!
When land is sold to private developers, how much profit goes into the state coffers? Is that also loss making?
How on earth are Singaporeans convinced that HDB is losing millions when we don’t know the actual cost of building a HDB flat in the first place?
Yes, be very thankful that there is no transparency and accountability in Singapore.
Yes, be very thankful that only in Singapore can a Minister make a sweeping statement that HDB is losing millions and MOF has to subsidise HDB every year because of these losses.
This reminds me of my friend's boss. Keep telling the staff that the company did not make money, so no increment and yet the directors' one after another change cars.:doh:
phantom_opera
30-04-13, 22:34
obviously some Singaporeans think land should be totally free for them
in Europe now u will be lucky to have a job
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/04-2/20130430_Job3_0.jpg
The reverse is true, the govt bought the land from me almost free! Imagine bought from me at S$0.60 psf of land under so-called national development, now selling >$500 psf ppr! :doh:
Bloody hell! I am subsidizing these people who are still complaining HDB BTO too expensive? If not govt bought at S$0.60 psf of land from people like us, they will probably have to pay $500 psf ppr for their area space under their HDB!
obviously some Singaporeans think land should be totally free for them
in Europe now u will be lucky to have a job
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/04-2/20130430_Job3_0.jpg
Oh really? Buy from u a swamp. What abt the infra put into the area? Talk cock again.
People like you are the scambags that benefited from people like us!
We know how the system works, and I am owning lots of land when you are not even born, you idiot!
Oh really? Buy from u a swamp. What abt the infra put into the area? Talk cock again.
People like you are the scambags that benefited from people like us!
We know how the system works, and I am owning lots of land when you are not even born, you idiot!
politicians never tell us how they are going to achieve their goals.
if lky and gang have mentioned that they are going to seize the richies' land when they are campaigning, they themselves would be accused of being socialists/communists and they would a lot of headwind from the rich families. but once they seized the levers of government, they can do anything according to the law, just the nazi germany, which pass laws to enable to do what they want.
I guess the rich supporters of pap in 1950-60s are like the jews who donated to the nazi party in the 1920s-30s, ie kena betrayed by the party to whom they donated and helped.
The reverse is true, the govt bought the land from me almost free! Imagine bought from me at S$0.60 psf of land under so-called national development, now selling >$500 psf ppr! :doh:
Bloody hell! I am subsidizing these people who are still complaining HDB BTO too expensive? If not govt bought at S$0.60 psf of land from people like us, they will probably have to pay $500 psf ppr for their area space under their HDB!Thank you for contributing to nation building and benefitting us!
Ya right! They are very good in packaging it in a nice name of national development!:banghead:
politicians never tell us how they are going to achieve their goals.
if lky and gang have mentioned that they are going to seize the richies' land when they are campaigning, they themselves would be accused of being socialists/communists and they would a lot of headwind from the rich families. but once they seized the levers of government, they can do anything according to the law, just the nazi germany, which pass laws to enable to do what they want.
I guess the rich supporters of pap in 1950-60s are like the jews who donated to the nazi party in the 1920s-30s, ie kena betrayed by the party to whom they donated and helped.
phantom_opera
01-05-13, 10:46
nothing wrong with garmen making money from selling hdbs as long as profit goes into national development instead of pockets of corrupted officials, do take note that part of profit goes to lower income families in terms of grants, of course ministers get paid millions too
if anything construction cost for hdb is 150psf so 1000sqft hdb already 150k at cost even if land is free
if immigration floodgate opens 300m Chinese and 300m Indians will want to become SCs to buy HDBs
....
if immigration floodgate opens 300m Chinese and 300m Indians will want to become SCs to buy HDBs
why you dont mentioned indonesians/malays? ok maybe no 300m, but you could have mentioned 75m indonesians/malays.
hmm, cartoonist is right. tfr for malay higher, yet percentage goes down.
guess malays are bottom rung for desirability.
It is ok, we are very flexible, we will continue to stay up there, but we do it the righteous way.
However, the mention of those scambags who benefited from us and still arguing rubbish makes me boil.
Imagine, buy $0.60 psf of land.
They sell $500 psf ppr, nowsadays plot ratio mostly 3.0, so in actual fact is they are selling at $1,500 psf of land!
Wow! The profit is 1500/0.6 = 250,000.00 % !!!
If they didn't get from us almost free then what is it? :tsk-tsk:
Thank you for contributing to nation building and benefitting us!
Originally Posted by teddybear
The reverse is true, the govt bought the land from me almost free! Imagine bought from me at S$0.60 psf of land under so-called national development, now selling >$500 psf ppr! :doh:
Bloody hell! I am subsidizing these people who are still complaining HDB BTO too expensive? If not govt bought at S$0.60 psf of land from people like us, they will probably have to pay $500 psf ppr for their area space under their HDB!
But the point is that a few days ago Khaw just said HDB losing millions every year!! So HDB flats are heavily subsidised. Is that believable, or is the govt thinking that Singaporeans are ignorant?
Note: he did not say HDB making money, and the money used to help the low income. He said HDB very jialak, always losing money!!
Singapore Ministers are still the highest paid in the world. So obviously profits from land and COE and what not goes into their pockets. Legitimately, of course. You can legitimise everything. Even a legal firm can be legitimised to do HDB transactions. Even a govt town council can be legitimised to give business to a PAP-owned company with $20 paid up capital, but handling a project worth millions.
nothing wrong with garmen making money from selling hdbs as long as profit goes into national development instead of pockets of corrupted officials, do take note that part of profit goes to lower income families in terms of grants, of course ministers get paid millions too
if anything construction cost for hdb is 150psf so 1000sqft hdb already 150k at cost even if land is free
if immigration floodgate opens 300m Chinese and 300m Indians will want to become SCs to buy HDBs
Quoting from one analyst, who appears to be making sense:
According to Khaw Boon Wan, the annual losses over the last few years were about a billion, ie every year but not sure how many years he was referring to, no matter how many flats were built. So, how much is HDB losing for every flat that it sold? And how much will HDB be losing if the population increases to 6.9m? At 6.9, HDB will need to build another 400,000units to house the increase of 1.6m people at 4 person per flat.
Taking a best case scenario to do a rough calculation, the building of 50,000 units under Boon Wan, and using his annual $1b loss, HDB should incur a loss of $20,000 for every unit sold. Tiok boh? If $1b is the loss when only 10,000 units were sold, then the loss per unit should be $100,000.
To build another 400,000 units, the loss could be in the region of $8b to $40b depending on which number one is using. This is a serious amount to lose and a big sum to save if the population is not increased and there is no need to build the 400,000 units of flats. Would it be prudent and make more economic sense not to increase the population to incur more losses? But this is not all. Boon Wan is trying to bring down the prices of HDB flats from an average of 5.5 years of the buyers annual income to 4 years. This would definitely add to the losses that HDB would have to incur. It is terribly worrying as to where the Govt is going to find the money to subsidise these losses. Yes, this is a lot of money and it must come from somewhere and someone would have to pay for it.
Quoting from one analyst, who appears to be making sense:
According to Khaw Boon Wan, the annual losses over the last few years were about a billion, ie every year but not sure how many years he was referring to, no matter how many flats were built. So, how much is HDB losing for every flat that it sold? And how much will HDB be losing if the population increases to 6.9m? At 6.9, HDB will need to build another 400,000units to house the increase of 1.6m people at 4 person per flat.
Taking a best case scenario to do a rough calculation, the building of 50,000 units under Boon Wan, and using his annual $1b loss, HDB should incur a loss of $20,000 for every unit sold. Tiok boh? If $1b is the loss when only 10,000 units were sold, then the loss per unit should be $100,000.
To build another 400,000 units, the loss could be in the region of $8b to $40b depending on which number one is using. This is a serious amount to lose and a big sum to save if the population is not increased and there is no need to build the 400,000 units of flats. Would it be prudent and make more economic sense not to increase the population to incur more losses? But this is not all. Boon Wan is trying to bring down the prices of HDB flats from an average of 5.5 years of the buyers annual income to 4 years. This would definitely add to the losses that HDB would have to incur. It is terribly worrying as to where the Govt is going to find the money to subsidise these losses. Yes, this is a lot of money and it must come from somewhere and someone would have to pay for it.
u call that making sense? lol
I'm so sorryif you don't get it. To sum up and make it easier to understand, Khaw is bullshitting and trying to hoodwink people when he claims that HDB, the MOF, and basically, the govt, are losing money from building and selling HDB flats.
SLA (Singapore Land Authority) may be selling land to HDB at market rate, causing HDB to lose hundreds of millions of dollars for selling its flats. However, SLA is certainly making much more from the land sale to HDB. Hence, if one were to put SLA and HDB together, overall, the Govt would still be making money and this money would go to the State’s reserves. How do we know this? This came directly from the mouth of previous National Development Minister, Mah Bow Tan, 2 years ago just before the 2011 GE. His admission is in public domain.
u call that making sense? lol
It is ok, we are very flexible, we will continue to stay up there, but we do it the righteous way.
However, the mention of those scambags who benefited from us and still arguing rubbish makes me boil.
Imagine, buy $0.60 psf of land.
They sell $500 psf ppr, nowsadays plot ratio mostly 3.0, so in actual fact is they are selling at $1,500 psf of land!
Wow! The profit is 1500/0.6 = 250,000.00 % !!!
If they didn't get from us almost free then what is it? :tsk-tsk:
Originally Posted by teddybear
The reverse is true, the govt bought the land from me almost free! Imagine bought from me at S$0.60 psf of land under so-called national development, now selling >$500 psf ppr! :doh:
Bloody hell! I am subsidizing these people who are still complaining HDB BTO too expensive? If not govt bought at S$0.60 psf of land from people like us, they will probably have to pay $500 psf ppr for their area space under their HDB!
Your logic is flawed. The fact that the land price is high now, has nothing to do with how low that u sold it in the first place. Many land in the Malaysia or Indonesia costing 1 dollar a square feet now. But nobody will pay for it if u have to take a helicopter to go there. Its the development that is expensive. Its the. Software that is expensive, not the hardware. Its the people that live on the land that are able to earn a living that make the land is expensive.
teddy ancestors didnt volunteer to sell it for $0.60. The govt take it legally and compensate it for a pittance. it is compulsary acquisition. teddy use wrong choice of words.
Excuse me! This is not a logic! I am stating the fact!
Your logic is flawed. The fact that the land price is high now, has nothing to do with how low that u sold it in the first place. Many land in the Malaysia or Indonesia costing 1 dollar a square feet now. But nobody will pay for it if u have to take a helicopter to go there. Its the development that is expensive. Its the. Software that is expensive, not the hardware. Its the people that live on the land that are able to earn a living that make the land is expensive.
Yes! We don't want to sell but was forced to sell our lands to government in the nice name of national development.
teddy ancestors didnt volunteer to sell it for $0.60. The govt take it legally and compensate it for a pittance. it is compulsary acquisition. teddy use wrong choice of words.
proud owner
01-05-13, 13:05
Yes! We don't want to sell but was forced to sell our lands to government in the nice name of national development.
my friend"s grand father was forced to sell his land ...from behind King albert park ...all the way to the hill top florist along clementi ....
govt then said to develop a container park .... today ...its still a forest ...
Final post on this thread, which is after all about being thankful for having a roof over our heads. Yes we indeed should be thankful for living fairly comfortably. But we musn't forget the price of progress.
- people forced to resettle at a pittance, giving up land of their ancestors
- forced to stay in HDB (who's to say that HDB living is better than kampong? Many beg to differ. . . . )
- forced abortions because of 2-child policy
- forced to flee the country because of conflicts with Men-in-White
- the list goes on . . .
If we feel comfortable and well-off, that's great. But just spare a thought for the price that had to be paid and the lack of soul. Surely life is not only about comfort and well-being . . . if so, then there would be no likes of Nelson Mandela and closer to home, JBJ who fought like a tiger and died a pauper.
my friend"s grand father was forced to sell his land ...from behind King albert park ...all the way to the hill top florist along clementi ....
govt then said to develop a container park .... today ...its still a forest ...
Surely if only he used the money right away to buy other smaller piece of land, he won't be worse off. But who would have known today's price can be so high. If we can tell the future, there won't be any beggar.
phantom_opera
01-05-13, 13:31
matador just face it, do u think there is enough resources for utopia on Earth
brutality has just begun with rise of 900m BRIICs middle class
just look at unemployment rate at Europe
our children next time must compete with 600m Chinese for the same job
Do you know that the money that you got back is very much insignificant back then if you compare it to the market rate that you need to pay for other house (Listen, just a roof for your shelter not even a small piece of land, definitely not enough to buy another smaller piece of land) as a replacement? Back then, there is no such thing as compensate at prevailing market rate. It's up to them to quote. You appealed, they will increase a small pittance and leave you with either you take it or leave it.
Surely if only he used the money right away to buy other smaller piece of land, he won't be worse off. But who would have known today's price can be so high. If we can tell the future, there won't be any beggar.
teddy, what was the market rate for your land at that time? was it $0.60psf?
many of us seems to disregard teddy's experience, thinking it is for national good and perhaps thinking the same thing cannot happen to them.
what make us think the same thing cannot happen to us or to our children?
many here accumulated multiple properties, wanting to leave to our children, then one fine day, govt grab our childrens' inherited properties, paying them pittance.
Teddy forefather's sacrificed (something) to acquire the lands, wanting to leave them to their descendants. Are their sacrifice in vain?
would your sacrifice be in vain when govt seized your childrens' inherited properties?
oot: i would never trust somebody who sang more than 1 national anthem, whatmore one who has sang 4 anthem.
matadorepy
01-05-13, 14:17
I'm so sorryif you don't get it. To sum up and make it easier to understand, Khaw is bullshitting and trying to hoodwink people when he claims that HDB, the MOF, and basically, the govt, are losing money from building and selling HDB flats.
SLA (Singapore Land Authority) may be selling land to HDB at market rate, causing HDB to lose hundreds of millions of dollars for selling its flats. However, SLA is certainly making much more from the land sale to HDB. Hence, if one were to put SLA and HDB together, overall, the Govt would still be making money and this money would go to the State’s reserves. How do we know this? This came directly from the mouth of previous National Development Minister, Mah Bow Tan, 2 years ago just before the 2011 GE. His admission is in public domain.
Prescisely, Mabarok Tan admitted that lowering HDB prices is tantamount to "raiding the Nation Reserves $$$". Now out of the horse mouth, the dark secret is out. Now we know why the cost of Building a HDB unit is so secretive b;cos we need to maintain the nation reserves.
:doh: :doh:
phantom_opera
01-05-13, 14:26
the situation at that time justify the means
90pc probably living in slum like conditions
no natural resources no reserve no land
PAP wanted to build HDBs to replace slums so acquition of lands was mandatary
of course land owners are kind of expected to do national service
even now prop developers also must do national service
proud owner
01-05-13, 14:39
Surely if only he used the money right away to buy other smaller piece of land, he won't be worse off. But who would have known today's price can be so high. If we can tell the future, there won't be any beggar.
the point is ...
the govt forced acquired the land for a purpose that never materialized..
Do you know that the money that you got back is very much insignificant back then if you compare it to the market rate that you need to pay for other house (Listen, just a roof for your shelter not even a small piece of land, definitely not enough to buy another smaller piece of land) as a replacement? Back then, there is no such thing as compensate at prevailing market rate. It's up to them to quote. You appealed, they will increase a small pittance and leave you with either you take it or leave it.
When your forefather first landed in sg, he should have picked up the land at bukit timah or orchard road. Why many other pioneers' lands didn't get acquired, but your forefather did?. Isn't life a mystery?.
Nope! $0.60psf was not the market rate! The market rate was much higher at about 10 fold of this rate.:(
teddy, what was the market rate for your land at that time? was it $0.60psf?
many of us seems to disregard teddy's experience, thinking it is for national good and perhaps thinking the same thing cannot happen to them.
what make us think the same thing cannot happen to us or to our children?
many here accumulated multiple properties, wanting to leave to our children, then one fine day, govt grab our childrens' inherited properties, paying them pittance.
Teddy forefather's sacrificed (something) to acquire the lands, wanting to leave them to their descendants. Are their sacrifice in vain?
would your sacrifice be in vain when govt seized your childrens' inherited properties?
oot: i would never trust somebody who sang more than 1 national anthem, whatmore one who has sang 4 anthem.
Nevertheless, This besides the point! Are you saying I should blame my forefather bought the wrong piece of land! :doh::eek:
When your forefather first landed in sg, he should have picked up the land at bukit timah or orchard road. Why many other pioneers' lands didn't get acquired, but your forefather did?. Isn't life a mystery?.
This is exactly the point! They left it there for ages and did not develop the land immediately as per what they claimed - nation building...:doh:
the point is ...
the govt forced acquired the land for a purpose that never materialized..
isnt the latest example is pulau ubin? acquire land for adventure building in 90s. up to now, no news
Nevertheless, This besides the point! Are you saying I should blame my forefather bought the wrong piece land! :doh::eek:
But everybody else praising their forefathers for buying the right piece of land. Isn't life a lottery.
Just to add on. I'm fine with them to develop that piece of land for building HDB and then benefit many Singaporean. I'm not OK if they subsequently sold to private developer for them to build condos. If wanted to sell to private developers I can also sell, don't need to sell to govt first right? So I don't believe selling to private developers for building private condos is considered "national building acquisition"?
This is exactly the point! They left it there for ages and did not develop the land immediately as per what they claimed - nation building...:doh:
isnt the latest example is pulau ubin? acquire land for adventure building in 90s. up to now, no news
Should be for renting to F&B and adventure park operators like Sentosa, possibly including licence for cruise operation.
There are many way to do national service. For example, they can give us grace period for us to develop that piece of land or sell them to private developer for building houses/condos.
Not like they marked your piece of land for nation building, no developer dare to buy from you and you also have no choice but to sell it to them.
the situation at that time justify the means
90pc probably living in slum like conditions
no natural resources no reserve no land
PAP wanted to build HDBs to replace slums so acquition of lands was mandatary
of course land owners are kind of expected to do national service
even now prop developers also must do national service
Maybe it is very true in other countries like Malaysia and Indonesia etc.. It's not quite true in Singapore.
But everybody else praising their forefathers for buying the right piece of land. Isn't life a lottery.
Just to clarify, it was not my ancestors who sold, my ancestors passed to us and we need to sell. It was not that long really (for my age perhaps not that long ago)... :p
teddy ancestors didnt volunteer to sell it for $0.60. The govt take it legally and compensate it for a pittance. it is compulsary acquisition. teddy use wrong choice of words.
You don't understand the situation, so it is very easy for you to say anything now that really doesn't make sense at that time.
Surely if only he used the money right away to buy other smaller piece of land, he won't be worse off. But who would have known today's price can be so high. If we can tell the future, there won't be any beggar.
proud owner
01-05-13, 15:42
But everybody else praising their forefathers for buying the right piece of land. Isn't life a lottery.
for all we know ..those days ... people were afraid of the "red car" ...story of those who rebel ..kana dragged into Red car and wohlup ...
also those forefathers who bought the right land , right location ... might be those in the know ..those Friends of the govt .. who knew what would be the development and where would be the prime area ...
after all not one talked about Transparency those day right ???
or who dared to talked about it ?
obviously some Singaporeans think land should be totally free for them
in Europe now u will be lucky to have a job
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/04-2/20130430_Job3_0.jpg
be thankful we have so much now.
People like you are the scambags that benefited from people like us!
We know how the system works, and I am owning lots of land when you are not even born, you idiot!
Really? u are some jealous guy. wat a scum.
politicians never tell us how they are going to achieve their goals.
if lky and gang have mentioned that they are going to seize the richies' land when they are campaigning, they themselves would be accused of being socialists/communists and they would a lot of headwind from the rich families. but once they seized the levers of government, they can do anything according to the law, just the nazi germany, which pass laws to enable to do what they want.
I guess the rich supporters of pap in 1950-60s are like the jews who donated to the nazi party in the 1920s-30s, ie kena betrayed by the party to whom they donated and helped.
So you are Nazi?
nothing wrong with garmen making money from selling hdbs as long as profit goes into national development instead of pockets of corrupted officials, do take note that part of profit goes to lower income families in terms of grants, of course ministers get paid millions too
if anything construction cost for hdb is 150psf so 1000sqft hdb already 150k at cost even if land is free
if immigration floodgate opens 300m Chinese and 300m Indians will want to become SCs to buy HDBs
Some people jealous cannot take it.. keep screaming they are taken advantage of.
It is ok, we are very flexible, we will continue to stay up there, but we do it the righteous way.
However, the mention of those scambags who benefited from us and still arguing rubbish makes me boil.
Imagine, buy $0.60 psf of land.
They sell $500 psf ppr, nowsadays plot ratio mostly 3.0, so in actual fact is they are selling at $1,500 psf of land!
Wow! The profit is 1500/0.6 = 250,000.00 % !!!
If they didn't get from us almost free then what is it? :tsk-tsk:
Originally Posted by teddybear
The reverse is true, the govt bought the land from me almost free! Imagine bought from me at S$0.60 psf of land under so-called national development, now selling >$500 psf ppr! :doh:
Bloody hell! I am subsidizing these people who are still complaining HDB BTO too expensive? If not govt bought at S$0.60 psf of land from people like us, they will probably have to pay $500 psf ppr for their area space under their HDB!
Oh u suddenly forgot inflation and valued added to ur swamp? cock.. must well compare the iban and sir standford raffles days? u want to compare back to ming dynasty? or Ching dynansty ? or han? cock talking are so cheap.
Your logic is flawed. The fact that the land price is high now, has nothing to do with how low that u sold it in the first place. Many land in the Malaysia or Indonesia costing 1 dollar a square feet now. But nobody will pay for it if u have to take a helicopter to go there. Its the development that is expensive. Its the. Software that is expensive, not the hardware. Its the people that live on the land that are able to earn a living that make the land is expensive.
Aiyah he will tell u his great grand father story and he dont buy it. ignorance have no cure.
Excuse me! This is not a logic! I am stating the fact!
More like altered fact with a different time line. comparing apple and carrots.
Its like saying I bid $100 for COE but didnt get. If I have got it today I would have saved $60K!.. then go on and cliam being cheated of 59,999.
cock argument.
Do you know that the money that you got back is very much insignificant back then if you compare it to the market rate that you need to pay for other house (Listen, just a roof for your shelter not even a small piece of land, definitely not enough to buy another smaller piece of land) as a replacement? Back then, there is no such thing as compensate at prevailing market rate. It's up to them to quote. You appealed, they will increase a small pittance and leave you with either you take it or leave it.
Pls move to malaysia then. do we need u here?
the point is ...
the govt forced acquired the land for a purpose that never materialized..
Goverment also made us do NS for war that never came. So? wats the pt?
Nope! $0.60psf was not the market rate! The market rate was much higher at about 10 fold of this rate.:(
Means ur land was a DUMP. thats all.
proud owner
01-05-13, 16:19
Goverment also made us do NS for war that never came. So? wats the pt?
different leh
the gave a reason for wanting to acquire the land ...
as for NS .. we are all told ..to prepare ..in case ..
when the acquired the land at ridiculous price ..the gave precise use and when and what ...
that to me is LYING
I know very hard to make you see the point cos your head and heart only point to ONE direction ..
proud owner
01-05-13, 16:21
Means ur land was a DUMP. thats all.
check with teddy ...
that DUMP land you talking about could be a prime area today ...
different leh
the gave a reason for wanting to acquire the land ...
as for NS .. we are all told ..to prepare ..in case ..
when the acquired the land at ridiculous price ..the gave precise use and when and what ...
that to me is LYING
I know very hard to make you see the point cos your head and heart only point to ONE direction ..
So the urban planning we have which is better than even hong kong is accredited to what?
if every citizen is allow to horde land. wat would singapore be today? would it be something we are so proud of now?
check with teddy ...
that DUMP land you talking about could be a prime area today ...
I dont believe the his Shit. ( aka DUMP).
I also own land. My great grand father have many factories! land are also acquired. So? That make me a Billion air grand son too?
Stupid bear is just a wanna be that could not make it.
proud owner
01-05-13, 16:42
So the urban planning we have which is better than even hong kong is accredited to what?
if every citizen is allow to horde land. wat would singapore be today? would it be something we are so proud of now?
hoard not horde ..
so you are saying ... people cannot hold on to their land .. and in order to take back the land from the people ... it is right for the govt to acquire at cheap cheap price and LIE about its usage to make it acceptable ?
anyway no point arguing .. you are one sided
why doesnt pap mentioned this when they are campaigning in the 50s-60s?
"i am going to take your land away when i become the government. there is nothing you can do about it because i am going to pass a law that allow me to take your land away for free.
i am going to take land from the landowners and distribute it to the landless".
hmm, think they would still be elected because there are more landless than landlords.
why doesnt pap mentioned this when they are campaigning in the 50s-60s?
"i am going to take your land away when i become the government. there is nothing you can do about it because i am going to pass a law that allow me to take your land away for free.
i am going to take land from the landowners and distribute it to the landless".
hmm, think they would still be elected because there are more landless than landlords.
u prefer your Indonesia government to Singapore :confused: :confused:
u prefer your Indonesia government to Singapore :confused: :confused:
I am singaporean, served ns as commando, ypap member, serve in rc blah blah blah So iis singaporean enough for you?
Who say i am indonesian? Cannot attack the message, attack the messenger,
It is just hard truth. In the era where communists can take your land totally, and ppl can be put to jail without any trial, the people in power will do whatever they want by any means.
It is kind of lucky, that the ppl in power for Singapore turned out to be not bad as a whole. Today, the Sinpaopore passport can go anywhere without hassle, and foreigners are willing to accept SGD in exchange for their cars, TVs, oil, etc.
I think the majority of Singaporeans got to thank them for having a piece of land today that someone else are willing to pay millions of US$ to buy. Without the development of SG, the land in this tiny island is worth nothing.
Those educated today believe in justice, fairness, equality. All of these were secondary when th gov wanted to urbanize Singapore. Many people did not realize the original "back to basic" agenda of HDB was actually to get people give up the kampung land and move into concentrated high rises such that land can be used for industrial and urban development.
You talk cock sing song?
If can choose not to sell, we will not sell, but there is no choice there. Imagine the "swamp" that you mentioned people want to buy and say we cannot don't sell, when the market rate is almost 10 fold, what can we do? If you are a private individual/group, we will use the bloom to sweep you out! :tongue3:
Oh u suddenly forgot inflation and valued added to ur swamp? cock.. must well compare the iban and sir standford raffles days? u want to compare back to ming dynasty? or Ching dynansty ? or han? cock talking are so cheap.
A DUMP that people want so eager buy, saliva dripping, and tell us we cannot don't sell? :tongue3:
Means ur land was a DUMP. thats all.
That DUMP today is worth $1,000 MILLIONS!
I don't mind such DUMP and I would have hoped that they don't want to "buy" my DUMP at time, a "buyer" which we cannot tell them that we just simply refused to sell! A "buyer" which we cannot say NO! :rolleyes:
check with teddy ...
that DUMP land you talking about could be a prime area today ...
wrong post
I dont believe the his Shit. ( aka DUMP).
I also own land. My great grand father have many factories! land are also acquired. So? That make me a Billion air grand son too?
Stupid bear is just a wanna be that could not make it.
For your information, it was not 50s-60s.
To be exact, the period of land acquisition that happened is between 1981-1984. That is why I say it is not too long ago really. About 29-32 years ago.
why doesnt pap mentioned this when they are campaigning in the 50s-60s?
"i am going to take your land away when i become the government. there is nothing you can do about it because i am going to pass a law that allow me to take your land away for free.
i am going to take land from the landowners and distribute it to the landless".
hmm, think they would still be elected because there are more landless than landlords.
I agree, and that is why I said govt should concentrate on providing cheap HDB flats using the cheap land acquired from people like us, that is fine for us.
However, it is not Ok for them to sell these land to private developers, because then that benefits a small of group of individuals and no longer considered "national development".
They should just leave private property market alone.
It is just hard truth. In the era where communists can take your land totally, and ppl can be put to jail without any trial, the people in power will do whatever they want by any means.
It is kind of lucky, that the ppl in power for Singapore turned out to be not bad as a whole. Today, the Sinpaopore passport can go anywhere without hassle, and foreigners are willing to accept SGD in exchange for their cars, TVs, oil, etc.
I think the majority of Singaporeans got to thank them for having a piece of land today that someone else are willing to pay millions of US$ to buy. Without the development of SG, the land in this tiny island is worth nothing.
Those educated today believe in justice, fairness, equality. All of these were secondary when th gov wanted to urbanize Singapore. Many people did not realize the original "back to basic" agenda of HDB was actually to get people give up the kampung land and move into concentrated high rises such that land can be used for industrial and urban development.
I agree, and that is why I said govt should concentrate on providing cheap HDB flats using the cheap land acquired from people like us, that is fine for us.
However, it is not Ok for them to sell these land to private developers, because then that benefits a small of group of individuals and no longer considered "national development".
They should just leave private property market alone.
who are u? u build singapore? u are nothing but early squatters. wannabe now talking big hole.
why doesnt pap mentioned this when they are campaigning in the 50s-60s?
"i am going to take your land away when i become the government. there is nothing you can do about it because i am going to pass a law that allow me to take your land away for free.
i am going to take land from the landowners and distribute it to the landless".
hmm, think they would still be elected because there are more landless than landlords.
since u in ypap, why don't u ask them and then share with us. hahaha. u should understand politics wat.
I agree, and that is why I said govt should concentrate on providing cheap HDB flats using the cheap land acquired from people like us, that is fine for us.
However, it is not Ok for them to sell these land to private developers, because then that benefits a small of group of individuals and no longer considered "national development".
They should just leave private property market alone.
u mean free! housing lol!
Propaganda of the 80s? :rolleyes:
http://youtu.be/k5TACEPIQkY
When people were happy move into hdb....
"Imagine their delight when they moved into a new unit with ready supply of water, electricity and modern sanitation."
https://remembersingapore.wordpress.com/2012/12/12/ang-mo-kio-my-hometown/
:o
I know you are very jealous now and so making personal attack at me.
No problem, I am very magnanimous, will not try to do the same to a dog like you.
As I said, I am imitating Warren Buffett, just that I am not even 1% of his wealth of US$62 BILLIONS but still there are many noble and selfless and righteous people in this world... EXCEPT you as we know, trying to defend so heavily for just a small little "crumb" benefits that you get from cut of corporate taxes and implementation of GST................. :beats-me-man:
1 word, such people are scambags, NO EMPATHY! :mad:
who are u? u build singapore? u are nothing but early squatters. wannabe now talking big hole.
I know you are very jealous now and so making personal attack at me.
No problem, I am very magnanimous, will not try to do the same to a dog like you.
As I said, I am imitating Warren Buffett, just that I am not even 1% of his wealth of US$62 BILLIONS but still there are many noble and selfless and righteous people in this world... EXCEPT you as we know, trying to defend so heavily for just a small little "crumb" benefits that you get from cut of corporate taxes and implementation of GST................. :beats-me-man:
1 word, such people are scambags, NO EMPATHY! :mad:
LOL I am Obama have to see Dicks like u ard.EMPATHY? u are hiding behind the empathy word for own agenda. talk cock sing song.
since u in ypap, why don't u ask them and then share with us. hahaha. u should understand politics wat.
shhhh..i only tell you, dont tell others ok. one ex-min before he passed away, he did tell me the rakyat will ask them then what is the difference between them pap and the communist and socialist. he stated that pap is like the ants, and the rakyat is like the aphids. the ants will protect the aphids and in return will harvest the honey from the aphids.
the ex-min also say pap dont want to be a parasite that eventually kill the host, would rather be a symbiotic relationship, which would gain more for the ants in the long run.
something like better to have a small % of big cake rather than a big % of a small cake. and the cake keeps on growing too.
he further elaborated that the more aphids there are, the more honey they will produce. like 5 million aphids will produce more honey than 3 million aphids. (he died before the wp of 6.9m aphids).
if you dont see me in the next few week, that mean i am staying in changi hilton. i want to test how effective the tor browser is.
the point is ...
the govt forced acquired the land for a purpose that never materialized..
Plans do change. Not possible for them to know what exactly they want to do immediately after acquisition, and not possible to wait until developments plans firm up hen acquire and also possible resources not available after acquisition for deelopment. I'm referring to our early nation building days. There were many acquired lands that have since been developed and I'm one of the beneficiary.
My granny's land in Mandai/ Chua Chu Kang were acquired with little compensation but I benefited by way of other's land who were similarly acquired and majority of the nation too. I think it's fair.
I see the same happening in neighboring countries. Just came back from 1 such country where the nation's GDP is in the low hundreds. Yet, many locals have at least 3,4,5 plots of land....some in town, some farm land. The local govt is already acquiring such lands for building factories, reselling to private developers and building villas with little compensation. So what the smart locals do is to keep acquiring other plots of land. It's cheap anyway.....
Back to Sg....if want to blame, which I think is pointless, blame on your ancestors for not buying other lands when 1 is acquired.
hoard not horde ..
so you are saying ... people cannot hold on to their land .. and in order to take back the land from the people ... it is right for the govt to acquire at cheap cheap price and LIE about its usage to make it acceptable ?
anyway no point arguing .. you are one sided
Did they anyhow take back? In thw early state of development when the land was slump?
Now its fair marlet compensation.
Also they might not developt it immidetaily sont mean they are not like they will not. Time frame is sifferent. Like we do ns for war? Did war come? Was that a lie?
Same time frame are different.
Cheap cheap price is u look back today n comaprw. Was it fair market price then? U cant bench mark today price n 30yrs ago compensation.
So arenu complaining 30 yrs ago paid 6k for a 3 room hdb. Now can sell 300k?
Got complain about that?
the situation at that time justify the means
90pc probably living in slum like conditions
no natural resources no reserve no land
PAP wanted to build HDBs to replace slums so acquition of lands was mandatary
of course land owners are kind of expected to do national service
even now prop developers also must do national service
There is no turning back the clock, the PAP has done okay. But let us not validate and justify everything they do. We are not aspiring for utopia. But neither should we turn a blind eye to mistakes, cruelty and brutality. The problem is that Singaporeans - led by our leaders - often think we know best and are so proud of our so-called achievements. What is slum to us may not be slum to others, for example. Sometime back, Khaw Boon Wan scoffed at the idea that Bhutan was the happiest place on earth. He said he saw many people toiling in the fields when he visited Bhutan.
A Bhutanese replied to KBW - (excerpts)
Since you questioned the presence of happiness in Bhutan, let me answer by telling you few things that you overlooked when you visited my country. Those people you saw in the fields weren't unhappy, if you have gone closer you would have heard them singing and enjoying the social lives. If you have spent a little longer time watching them, you would have seen a woman with basket on her back and holding arms with several children coming with steaming food - we don't have McDonald or KFC. Then everybody will sit down to eat their lunch, laughing and joking, feeding babies, for over an hour - you wouldn't have had so much time to sit and watch I know, times means money in your country. But we have luxury of time. People don't worry "about the next harvest and whether there would be buyers for their products." And when the sun sets, doesn't really matter what time, people leave for their homes where they have a large family waiting. Our children don't cast away their parents when they age.
We don't need Health Insurance to survive, nor have to go for Education Loan for educating our children. We don't hang the drug users, we counsel them to hang on to their lives, we don't have to have a job to survive, and when we fall sick even the furthest cousin comes to attend without having to update Facebook status.
If you reread our history you will find that our wise kings have hidden us from the outside world so that we could remain the way we are today. If we start mining our mountains and lumbering our forests, we can become Singapore but no matter what you do you can never become Bhutan. It is far too difficult. We shall be the last breath of oxygen on earth. Bhutan may not be the Last Shangri-la but we are happy.
phantom_opera
02-05-13, 14:52
Bhutan has natural resources ... it exports hydropower to India and exploited high end tourism (i.e. only rich tourists are welcome)
If Singapore has the same natural resources, i think we can afford to be less stressful
Also it really up to individuals SCs to find their own happiness in life e.g. if u are sick with SG life, go volunteer in Cambodia ... PAP can't stop u right?
Bhutan has natural resources ... it exports hydropower to India and exploited high end tourism (i.e. only rich tourists are welcome)
If Singapore has the same natural resources, i think we can afford to be less stressful
Also it really up to individuals SCs to find their own happiness in life e.g. if u are sick with SG life, go volunteer in Cambodia ... PAP can't stop u right?
Well we now lived in a very globalized world. We can be Singaporen but living in JB , US , London or anywhere in the world we want to. The key is the ability to be mobile.
And with that we need to have economical strength. Spend our early yrs laboring and then decided what make us happy. Stay ard do the usual , go JB live in some quiet ulu place where birds dont lay eggs, go cheng mai stay in good weather slow Buddhist community or go to NY where the buzz are or London or romantic paris.
No matter where its up to each individual. and with hard work we have a choice. I rather we have a choice then have no choice at all.
Bhutan is like a close society. But once they open up they have to embrace the globalized society if not they will not survive. Like Cambodia.. look at the opening up. its going to move at blazing speed? is it good? well for those who move with more opportunities await. For those who refuse to move? then they will feel left behind later..
anyway Happiness it up to each to seek and what to aim for. most important is to be happy. Its not abt material stuff but many times is the family and friends that are around one. That makes ones happiness priceless.
Happiness is in each owns hands. We have so many people with shelter mentality. Expect garmen do everything for them. Happiness is for one to mandate not dependent on others.
[QUOTE=minority]
anyway Happiness it up to each to seek and what to aim for. most important is to be happy. Its not abt material stuff but many times is the family and friends that are around one. That makes ones happiness priceless.
Yes, you hit it on the nail here. That's the whole point actually. To each his own. For us to decide that other people are backward and hence Singapore is so progressive, so modernised is not the right attitude. We in Singapore value comfort and well-being but others may value civil rights, peace of mind, serenity. Casinos, for example, bring in lots of money, but at what social cost? Is the trade-off worth it? For families whose lives have been screwed up by problem gambling, the answer is obvious.
You usually make more sense. Unfortunately, unlike Minority, you have missed the point here. It's NOT about being sick with life in SG. It's about how we define happiness. Like KBW who felt Bhutanese cannot be happy because they spend their time toiling in the fields . . . I think you and some other SGporeans equate comfort, money, home and progress with happiness. Which is really not the case. We do have much much better things to be thankful for, rather than for the roof over our heads.
Bhutan has natural resources ... it exports hydropower to India and exploited high end tourism (i.e. only rich tourists are welcome)
If Singapore has the same natural resources, i think we can afford to be less stressful
Also it really up to individuals SCs to find their own happiness in life e.g. if u are sick with SG life, go volunteer in Cambodia ... PAP can't stop u right?
Well we now lived in a very globalized world. We can be Singaporen but living in JB , US , London or anywhere in the world we want to. The key is the ability to be mobile.
And with that we need to have economical strength. Spend our early yrs laboring and then decided what make us happy. Stay ard do the usual , go JB live in some quiet ulu place where birds dont lay eggs, go cheng mai stay in good weather slow Buddhist community or go to NY where the buzz are or London or romantic paris.
No matter where its up to each individual. and with hard work we have a choice. I rather we have a choice then have no choice at all.
Bhutan is like a close society. But once they open up they have to embrace the globalized society if not they will not survive. Like Cambodia.. look at the opening up. its going to move at blazing speed? is it good? well for those who move with more opportunities await. For those who refuse to move? then they will feel left behind later..
anyway Happiness it up to each to seek and what to aim for. most important is to be happy. Its not abt material stuff but many times is the family and friends that are around one. That makes ones happiness priceless.
Happiness is in each owns hands. We have so many people with shelter mentality. Expect garmen do everything for them. Happiness is for one to mandate not dependent on others.
No children, of course can live anywhere you want.
Can also live in timbaktu.
:D
phantom_opera
03-05-13, 11:25
You usually make more sense. Unfortunately, unlike Minority, you have missed the point here. It's NOT about being sick with life in SG. It's about how we define happiness. Like KBW who felt Bhutanese cannot be happy because they spend their time toiling in the fields . . . I think you and some other SGporeans equate comfort, money, home and progress with happiness. Which is really not the case. We do have much much better things to be thankful for, rather than for the roof over our heads.
u must understand that WP MP quoted Bhutan as the "role model" in parliament, Khaw simply just said Bhutan is not as good u would think
and I find it funny that WP MP has probably never been to Bhutan and Khaw was there invited by Bhutan garmen yet WP MP thinks she knows better lol
it is obvious that some forumers here want to turn everything into politics :mad:
u must understand that WP MP quoted Bhutan as the "role model" in parliament, Khaw simply just said Bhutan is not as good u would think
and I find it funny that WP MP has probably never been to Bhutan and Khaw was there invited by Bhutan garmen yet WP MP thinks she knows better lol
it is obvious that some forumers here want to turn everything into politics :mad:
so one must have traveled to bhutan then is qualified to comment or know better ah?
likewise it does not mean one who has been to bhutan therefore knows better.
and khaw dissing bhutan is not political?
http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/econmobile_optimize/images/2013/05/blogs/graphic-detail/20130504_gdc554.png
blablablablabla
off topic liaoz la
No children, of course can live anywhere you want.
Can also live in timbaktu.
:D
U think these days children want to live with u meh...
[QUOTE=minority]
anyway Happiness it up to each to seek and what to aim for. most important is to be happy. Its not abt material stuff but many times is the family and friends that are around one. That makes ones happiness priceless.
Yes, you hit it on the nail here. That's the whole point actually. To each his own. For us to decide that other people are backward and hence Singapore is so progressive, so modernised is not the right attitude. We in Singapore value comfort and well-being but others may value civil rights, peace of mind, serenity. Casinos, for example, bring in lots of money, but at what social cost? Is the trade-off worth it? For families whose lives have been screwed up by problem gambling, the answer is obvious.
duhhhh.... u are out of point. really? no 1 force people to gamble. no casino here so many go genting or go gambling on the boat.
If one kills oneself dont blame the knife. blame the person welding it.
If I drive my car into a tree and kills myself. is it the cars fault? the tree fault ? the road fault? or garmen fault to allow cars and build roads?
Or was it just my lousy driving skills?
So by what u are saying progressive is not good? go back live in a slump will be good? so then no crime?
Look at india its not progressive not as progressive . will u want to live there? move from sgp n go live in the slump there?
[quote=Matador]
duhhhh.... u are out of point. really? no 1 force people to gamble. no casino here so many go genting or go gambling on the boat.
If one kills oneself dont blame the knife. blame the person welding it.
If I drive my car into a tree and kills myself. is it the cars fault? the tree fault ? the road fault? or garmen fault to allow cars and build roads?
Or was it just my lousy driving skills?
So by what u are saying progressive is not good? go back live in a slump will be good? so then no crime?
Look at india its not progressive not as progressive . will u want to live there? move from sgp n go live in the slump there?
eh stupid, takes two hands to clap.
never read about toddlers killing people by triggering firearms unknowingly. blame the kid or the adult who put the firearm in reach??
just proves again how narrow your vision is. if you drive into a tree and kill yourself, i am sure it's because you're too stupid to differentiate left from right
felicia_sg
03-05-13, 14:23
As commonly said, STUPID got no cure, what can you do? You like that like talking to a cow? Better slaughter them for their meat... :p
eh stupid, takes two hands to clap.
never read about toddlers killing people by triggering firearms unknowingly. blame the kid or the adult who put the firearm in reach??
just proves again how narrow your vision is. if you drive into a tree and kill yourself, i am sure it's because you're too stupid to differentiate left from right
talk rubbish talk rubbish talk rubbish! :cheers4:
As commonly said, STUPID got no cure, what can you do? You like that like talking to a cow? Better slaughter them for their meat... :p
by the looks of it, this cow surely has CJD. would burn into ashes
[quote=minority]
eh stupid, takes two hands to clap.
never read about toddlers killing people by triggering firearms unknowingly. blame the kid or the adult who put the firearm in reach??
just proves again how narrow your vision is. if you drive into a tree and kill yourself, i am sure it's because you're too stupid to differentiate left from right
blame the adult then! why never supervise by the adult? no education from the adult? if not Gun can be knife what. So? as usual idoits like u will blame the gun the garmen god etc.
Why not say screw driver the kid poke his friends eye out.? so blame who? EDUCATION! The parent need to EDUCATE!.
u assume everyone like u the stupid unsupervised kid?
U should just go shoot urself. no will will blame u!
As commonly said, STUPID got no cure, what can you do? You like that like talking to a cow? Better slaughter them for their meat... :p
Right! so Right.. why are u still looking for Cure then?. admit it.. Stupid.
[quote=Matador]
If one kills oneself dont blame the knife. blame the person welding it.
no, u said blame the person welding the knife. stupid
[quote=minority]
no, u said blame the person welding the knife. stupid
yes. so blame the kid then. its the product of the parent.
like u!
u are really dumb its like talking to a piece of ROCK.
[quote=eng81157]
yes. so blame the kid then. its the product of the parent.
like u!
u are really dumb its like talking to a piece of ROCK.
one statement blame the perpetuator, another statement blame the supplier
that's why don't make stupid statements, but maybe your english proficiency ain't up to mark
[quote=minority]
one statement blame the perpetuator, another statement blame the supplier
that's why don't make stupid statements, but maybe your english proficiency ain't up to mark
Ur brian are not up to mark actually. u give me 1 example I give u the answer. u just too dumb to understand or blind to see?
Can I ask ur stupid self. who is responsible for a Kid? and who is responsible as a Adult?
Who is responsible for a Dog? ur Dog go bite people whose fault? The Dog? the person? garmen allow dog? God ? ( coz he created dog)? its the owner responsible for the DOG!
If u cannot tell a adult form a kid. you are just like a Rock.. Grey matter inside. Stupid skull as hard and thick.
Maybe u need to knock ur self on the rock. For that I wont blame u. I will let u blame the rock.! ok.
[quote=eng81157]
Ur brian are not up to mark actually. u give me 1 example I give u the answer. u just too dumb to understand or blind to see?
Can I ask ur stupid self. who is responsible for a Kid? and who is responsible as a Adult?
Who is responsible for a Dog? ur Dog go bite people whose fault? The Dog? the person? garmen allow dog? God ? ( coz he created dog)? its the owner responsible for the DOG!
If u cannot tell a adult form a kid. you are just like a Rock.. Grey matter inside. Stupid skull as hard and thick.
Maybe u need to knock ur self on the rock. For that I wont blame u. I will let u blame the rock.! ok.
thanks for confirming my example demonstrates the stupidity in your statements
Think you need to blame your parents for giving birth to an idiot like you? :D
yes. so blame the kid then. its the product of the parent.
like u!
u are really dumb its like talking to a piece of ROCK.
Think you need to blame your parents for giving birth to an idiot like you? :D
like him u are a dumb ass right? cannot tell kid from adult.?
well I guess u blame ur parents for ur stupidity and low IQ.
oh sorry.. u blame garmen for every darn shit.
[quote=Matador]
duhhhh.... u are out of point. really? no 1 force people to gamble. no casino here so many go genting or go gambling on the boat.
If one kills oneself dont blame the knife. blame the person welding it.
If I drive my car into a tree and kills myself. is it the cars fault? the tree fault ? the road fault? or garmen fault to allow cars and build roads?
Or was it just my lousy driving skills?
So by what u are saying progressive is not good? go back live in a slump will be good? so then no crime?
Look at india its not progressive not as progressive . will u want to live there? move from sgp n go live in the slump there?
:doh: :doh: no mention of kids in your statement. now kenna cornered, then change stance
EPIC FAIL
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, thanks for being the joke again
phantom_opera
03-05-13, 16:03
http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/econmobile_optimize/images/2013/05/blogs/graphic-detail/20130504_gdc554.png
blablablablabla
off topic liaoz la
it is law of diminishing return on happiness once u reach a certain income level
Actually what is this thread all about, it seems that it has been going out of the way.
sigh.....this always happens when minority enters a discussion and goes off tangent with his illogical rants and incoherence
[quote=minority]
:doh: :doh: no mention of kids in your statement. now kenna cornered, then change stance
EPIC FAIL
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, thanks for being the joke again
LOL u are really a village clown. U are the one who bring up the kid dahh... or have ur memory like always selective faded. and u flip n flop like prata?
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
sigh.....this always happens when minority enters a discussion and goes off tangent with his illogical rants and incoherence
With a rock like u? the thread typically dies when u come in . just sink the intelligence so low.
it is law of diminishing return on happiness once u reach a certain income level
Errhh not if u take GST away!!!
pund greatly intended. ;)
sigh.....this always happens when minority enters a discussion and goes off tangent with his illogical rants and incoherence
well summarised ~ :D
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.