View Full Version : Land Storm is Coming!!!
For those still clinging on to their over leveraged landed property, you might want to consider cashing out before the storm..
WingTai chairmen is selling his trophy GCB at Nissim, transaction for GCB is at all time low despite all the theory about influx of rich chinese new citizen while not realizing that money laundering could be something of the past for Singapore.
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7669/uraq113.png
Ringo, do you suggest buying a HDB, condo, shares or just leave money in the bank after cashing out on the landed?
sell nassim buy lots of nissin
Hi...A crash is imminent and within the horizon. Sit tight and prepare for the slide.
This crash will benefit many Singaporean.
Hi...A crash is imminent and within the horizon. Sit tight and prepare for the slide.
This crash will benefit many Singaporean.
Crash or no crash, you still cannot afford because it is either still too expensive for you or you had lost your job.
Crash will benefit many people except you.
For those still clinging on to their over leveraged landed property, you might want to consider cashing out before the storm..
WingTai chairmen is selling his trophy GCB at Nissim, transaction for GCB is at all time low despite all the theory about influx of rich chinese new citizen while not realizing that money laundering could be something of the past for Singapore.
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7669/uraq113.png
Wow! I remember this chart..
Last time the "curve" was forming in Q1 2012 & ppl inserted the "red circle".. telling ppl is time to sell..
And later the "red circle" keep-on postpone from quarter to quarter telling ppl is time to selling..
Just like MR B telling ppl since End 2008 "Pty price is coming down fast".. tell till today:D
Wow! I remember this chart..
Last time the "curve" was forming in Q1 2012 & ppl inserted the "red circle".. telling ppl is time to sell..
And later the "red circle" keep-on postpone from quarter to quarter telling ppl is time to selling..
Just like MR B telling ppl since End 2008 "Pty price is coming down fast".. tell till today:D
Doubt how useful historical data can be, last time There was no QE.
phantom_opera
28-04-13, 10:25
agree with kanarazu
nowadays market is so manipulated that only central bank insiders can make $$
who in the right mind will know kuroda going to x2 yen in 2y
Doubt how useful historical data can be, last time There was no QE.
Look at the mess in Euro Zone and surge in S&P , Dow Jones ..do you believe in ,, a big storm may be on .. after being delayed an halted somewhat ..Market insiders know best ... calm before the storm ,,, surge and peak before the off the cliff free fall ..be aware
sit tight wait for the free fall...... When? Nobody knows......:sleep:
The pattern of the curves does indicate a big bubble forming for landed properties. The exact same pattern can be seen during the 97 crash.
I think this thread should be re-named as :
Cash Storm is Coming !!!
With all the central banks flooding the market with massive amounts of paper money, CASH will be seen crashing onto our shores waves after waves.
Wanton noodles will hit $5 in hawker centre in NO TIME!
Those holding cash (including poor Office Boy!) will be facing major erosion.
We have already seen how our $100K since 2008-2009 is now worth about $80K only! And when seen from property perspective, thats worth even lesser!
So dear readers, please Think, Think, Think ... cling onto something that can be used to hedge the inflation even property prices only goes up 1% per quarter or month, it is better than leaving it in the bank.
Those who MTBs, this maybe your last chance to grab something before you and your children realised you are now in the lower social echeleon. I am say you have seen these people, people who cannot dream of owning a PC because they never had the chance to (financially).
Think, my friends, Think.
If a big economy like US can avert a deep depression, what to mention Singapore property market, which is totally controlled by the government ?
Price drop 15% ? Nevermind, we stop land sales, remove the ABSD, remove the loan restrictions to foreigners, etc.
We are even know to give discount on the 3% initial stamp duty during bad times to ensure that the property market turn around! ... Those were the days ...
DKSG
CondoInterested
28-04-13, 11:31
Where is the HDB line?
Where is the HDB line?
Beyond the graph, drawing that down will defeat the purpose of trying to tell us bubble is forming. The HDB line will show u, that bubble formed a few years back grew bigger and bigger ... then now stablised and now become the new norm/pricing ....
Office Boy sees a lot of such tricks in office manipulating the charts to show what the Bosses want to see. Office Boy himself is quite good at it one! If I draw, I can make you see that the market is in serious bubble problem and likely to crash next month...
DKSG
A multi-purpose Office Boy
Many enlighten ones seem to begin to comprehend this point and are seeking out high yielding properties. e.g. MM in Geylang
I agree with you....
Put 200k in the bank, earn 1200 max per year in interest...
Put 200k to buy a 1m property and earn nett rental income of at least 2% per year= 20k per year plus 1% rise in price per year = 20k + 20k = 40k per year....
Which one is better?
I think this thread should be re-named as :
Cash Storm is Coming !!!
With all the central banks flooding the market with massive amounts of paper money, CASH will be seen crashing onto our shores waves after waves.
Wanton noodles will hit $5 in hawker centre in NO TIME!
Those holding cash (including poor Office Boy!) will be facing major erosion.
We have already seen how our $100K since 2008-2009 is now worth about $80K only! And when seen from property perspective, thats worth even lesser!
So dear readers, please Think, Think, Think ... cling onto something that can be used to hedge the inflation even property prices only goes up 1% per quarter or month, it is better than leaving it in the bank.
Those who MTBs, this maybe your last chance to grab something before you and your children realised you are now in the lower social echeleon. I am say you have seen these people, people who cannot dream of owning a PC because they never had the chance to (financially).
Think, my friends, Think.
If a big economy like US can avert a deep depression, what to mention Singapore property market, which is totally controlled by the government ?
Price drop 15% ? Nevermind, we stop land sales, remove the ABSD, remove the loan restrictions to foreigners, etc.
We are even know to give discount on the 3% initial stamp duty during bad times to ensure that the property market turn around! ... Those were the days ...
DKSG
I'm quite amazed by your persistent bad mouth on Landed property but nothing against your thoughts but you might want to control yourselves as your creditability will definitely go under ground even though u are only sitting behind your computer using a nick...
GCB, how many % of landed is classified under GCB? i know you going to google about it, go ahead. this is definitely a different class and the chart is practically useless on such BIG items.
as someone said, last time no QE, now got QE, so history will only be history and it might not even repeat with the same tendency.
look at the chart below if you can understand. for those who understand, good for you, again, it is only as our reference...:2cents:
http://i43.tinypic.com/35aq3wz.gif
For those still clinging on to their over leveraged landed property, you might want to consider cashing out before the storm..
WingTai chairmen is selling his trophy GCB at Nissim, transaction for GCB is at all time low despite all the theory about influx of rich chinese new citizen while not realizing that money laundering could be something of the past for Singapore.
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7669/uraq113.png
Hi...A crash is imminent and within the horizon. Sit tight and prepare for the slide.
This crash will benefit many Singaporean.
Sigh....
Bro.... I never commented much in ur post but you have moved from someone who was crazy about getting a mt Sinai place, to thinking of all the creative options to own mt Sinai place to even more creative ways and finally when you cannot get it, you spread rumours that prices are going crash.... All within a couple of months....
Work harder, climb the corporate ladder, save money and then wait for the right opportunities to come.... Keep shouting market crash is useless here...
Khaw already said very clearly he wants soft landing coz 85% own their homes so the impact will be too great if market crash...
Try and not be so selfish ya.... But it doesn't matter, doesn't mean you shout loud loud market crash means it will crash... Mr B shout until he got no voice still prices are where they were or slightly rising... Now he disappear...
extracted....
The European Central Bank will cut its key interest rate, already at an all-time low, at its policy meeting next week and may also unveil new measures to kick-start bank lending to businesses, analysts predict......
:2cents:
I'm quite amazed by your persistent bad mouth on Landed property but nothing against your thoughts but you might want to control yourselves as your creditability will definitely go under ground even though u are only sitting behind your computer using a nick...
GCB, how many % of landed is classified under GCB? i know you going to google about it, go ahead. this is definitely a different class and the chart is practically useless on such BIG items.
as someone said, last time no QE, now got QE, so history will only be history and it might not even repeat with the same tendency.
look at the chart below if you can understand. for those who understand, good for you, again, it is only as our reference...:2cents:
http://i43.tinypic.com/35aq3wz.gif
agree with kanarazu
nowadays market is so manipulated that only central bank insiders can make $$
who in the right mind will know kuroda going to x2 yen in 2y
Tharman knows, hence introduce cm in Jan
Sigh....
Bro.... I never commented much in ur post but you have moved from someone who was crazy about getting a mt Sinai place, to thinking of all the creative options to own mt Sinai place to even more creative ways and finally when you cannot get it, you spread rumours that prices are going crash.... All within a couple of months....
Work harder, climb the corporate ladder, save money and then wait for the right opportunities to come.... Keep shouting market crash is useless here...
Khaw already said very clearly he wants soft landing coz 85% own their homes so the impact will be too great if market crash...
Try and not be so selfish ya.... But it doesn't matter, doesn't mean you shout loud loud market crash means it will crash... Mr B shout until he got no voice still prices are where they were or slightly rising... Now he disappear...
Hi...I never have the intent to crash the market, though I would very much welcome a crash so it will make my Mt Sinai affordable.
I am still holds great interest in Mt Sinai.
I'm quite amazed by your persistent bad mouth on Landed property but nothing against your thoughts but you might want to control yourselves as your creditability will definitely go under ground even though u are only sitting behind your computer using a nick...
GCB, how many % of landed is classified under GCB? i know you going to google about it, go ahead. this is definitely a different class and the chart is practically useless on such BIG items.
as someone said, last time no QE, now got QE, so history will only be history and it might not even repeat with the same tendency.
look at the chart below if you can understand. for those who understand, good for you, again, it is only as our reference...:2cents:
http://i43.tinypic.com/35aq3wz.gif
Landed property prices have already hit a threshold and where there are no more upside to capital appreciation, investors to will exit and put their money in other better yield assets.
Bank spread has already go up and sentiment from the banking industry is also expecting interest rate to rise this year.
When price hit astronomical level, then that will be a time to exit.
threshold set by you?? :o
so the condo psf will hit the roof whereby your EC will cost more than landed u mean....landed crash while others keep going....landed u mean 1.5mil to 3mil or 3mil - 7mil or those more than 10mil??
bro, wake up...;)
anyway, i dont wish to discuss this topic here with u, time wasting. sorry if i have offended u but you are indeed very persistent.
Landed property prices have already hit a threshold and where there are no more upside to capital appreciation, investors to will exit and put their money in other better yield assets.
Bank spread has already go up and sentiment from the banking industry is also expecting interest rate to rise this year.
When price hit astronomical level, then that will be a time to exit.
Hi...I never have the intent to crash the market, though I would very much welcome a crash so it will make my Mt Sinai affordable.
I am still holds great interest in Mt Sinai.
Adik YT, Mt Sinai ....... Tak Senang lah.
The pattern of the curves does indicate a big bubble forming for landed properties. The exact same pattern can be seen during the 97 crash.
Both pattern are totally different..
The current one you must thanks to the QE.. prolong low interest rate.. & most importantly the CMs...
Without CMs.. the pty prices could have shot thru the roof.. & crash much earlier..
With the CMs.. the gov has moderated & prolong the increase of price at the sustainable level.. & KBW already hinted ppl have to "tan gu-gu" to see some soft landing (if any) & the landing path has to be very very very loooooong (meaning you really need to tan gu-gu :sleep: )
That's why in the chart.. the "red circle" keep changing goal post.. initially from Q1 2012 say bubble forming.. now shifted to Q1 2013 still say bubble forming :D
Adik YT, Mt Sinai ....... Tak Senang lah.
Hi...my eyes are on Mt Sinai only. My passion and love for this place cannot be describe with words.
phantom_opera
28-04-13, 14:50
Tharman knows, hence introduce cm in Jan
No wonder everytime CM, Singaporeans will chiong to buy
CM = QE to come??:p
It happens everywhere. Recently in china. That is the normal response of humans. EC buyers will come next.
No wonder everytime CM, Singaporeans will chiong to buy
CM = QE to come??:p
You think so when unemployment rate is the us is 7.6% and still take a long while to drop to 6.6%.
Landed property prices have already hit a threshold and where there are no more upside to capital appreciation, investors to will exit and put their money in other better yield assets.
Bank spread has already go up and sentiment from the banking industry is also expecting interest rate to rise this year.
When price hit astronomical level, then that will be a time to exit.
Hi...my eyes are on Mt Sinai only. My passion and love for this place cannot be describe with words.
Each quarter you cannot buy anything in Mt Sinai, each quarter the price is going up by 1%.
Anyway, we also dont know who u r, maybe you are an existing owner of a Mt Sinai unit trying to offload for the last many months at high premiums from the market.
Whichever situation you are, wishing the bad for others so that you can benefit from it is the same as your doctor wishing you have cancer relapse again and again so that he can profit from you medical fees. I am sure no doctor is like that, but if you are a doctor, then I cannot say liao.
人在做 天在看 ! You no need to account to us here, but to your God, whichever religion you are.
All da best!
DKSG
Bulls vs bears....AGAIN:doh:
threshold set by you?? :o
so the condo psf will hit the roof whereby your EC will cost more than landed u mean....landed crash while others keep going....landed u mean 1.5mil to 3mil or 3mil - 7mil or those more than 10mil??
bro, wake up...;)
anyway, i dont wish to discuss this topic here with u, time wasting. sorry if i have offended u but you are indeed very persistent.
The decline in transaction volume and prices for large quantum properties is a clear sign of where the property market has already hit the threshold due to ABSD and LTV restriction.
Unlike landed property, developers for condo can shrink the unit size to make condo more affordable, something that is not possible for most landed property.
Unlikely landed, many are still investing in condo because there is still positive rental yield, for landed property if there are no much potential for capital appreciation, many will choose to cash out instead of holding.
My questions in my last post for u are supposed to clear your nonsensical assumptions. But if u choose to ignore, so be it. :2cents: ;)
There are many more to push u off but, no point...:2cents:
The decline in transaction volume and prices for large quantum properties is a clear sign of where the property market has already hit the threshold due to ABSD and LTV restriction.
Unlike landed property, developers for condo can shrink the unit size to make condo more affordable, something that is not possible for most landed property.
Unlikely landed, many are still investing in condo because there is still positive rental yield, for landed property if there are no much potential for capital appreciation, many will choose to cash out instead of holding.
CondoInterested
28-04-13, 17:57
The decline in transaction volume and prices for large quantum properties is a clear sign of where the property market has already hit the threshold due to ABSD and LTV restriction.
Unlike landed property, developers for condo can shrink the unit size to make condo more affordable, something that is not possible for most landed property.
Unlikely landed, many are still investing in condo because there is still positive rental yield, for landed property if there are no much potential for capital appreciation, many will choose to cash out instead of holding.
Ha ha ha... New concept invented, mm size landed... Small land, small house...
proud owner
28-04-13, 18:03
i am just curious ... that there exist this chart...specifically for landed ..with each color and line representing .. Detached, Semi D, Terrace, Condo, Apt ...
is there a similar chart for Condo
where each color and line represents 2 rm, 3rm, 4rm, PH ...?
if there is .. and will the owner of that chart be able to tell us should we keep 2 bedroom and sell PH etc etc ???
Ha ha ha... New concept invented, mm size landed... Small land, small house...
Actually the new concept of mm on a BIG build-in area already started at NeWest..
- Super Big terrace space
- Big planter area
- Small living & dining area
- Small kitchen
- Small masterbdrm
- All common bdrm almost similar to the size of maid's bdrm
Not surprising it will work on landed as well :(
http://newest-westcoast.officialnewlaunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Newest-West-Coast-Floorplan-011.jpg
One part of the film talked about the monetary system. It claimed that the growth of money supply is inherent in a capitalist system, which is why inflation is inevitable. Evidence: an apartment which was bought for $20,000 in the 1970s can now be sold for $500,000. Basically, there is just more and more money being circulated as time goes by.
The film showed a chart of the money supply in the US since the 1950s and juxtaposed that against the chart of the US national debt. The trajectories of both charts are strikingly similar, leading the filmmakers to conclude that money is created out of nothing but government debts. That in fact is the argument of the Modern Chartalism theory, which states that under a fiat money system, net currency is created by government through deficit spending.
That set me thinking. The Singapore government runs a budget surplus year after year. How is the money supply in Singapore created? And oh my, how the money supply in Singapore has grown.
M2 money supply in Singapore - which includes currency in active circulation, demand deposits of the private sector, fixed deposits, Singdollar negotiable certificates of deposits, savings and other deposits - totalled $170.9 billion at the end of 2000. By November last year, M2 in Singapore had ballooned to $401.4 billion. That's an increase of 135 per cent or 8.9 per cent a year in the past 10 years. In comparison, the gross domestic product (GDP) grew by about 6.4 per cent a year during that period.
So what makes the money supply grow in Singapore? I came across a document entitled Monetary Policy Operations in Singapore on the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) website. The 32-page document highlights the key aspects of MAS's monetary policy operations, foreign exchange and money market operations, and the various factors and considerations underlying them.
The four primary responsibilities of MAS are:
Implementation of exchange rate policy;
Conduct of money market operations for banking system liquidity management;
Management/issuance of Singapore Government Securities (SGS) in support of government initiatives in bond market development; and
Provision of banking and financial services to the government.
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My%2BMoney/Opinion/Story/A1Story20110131-261348/2.html
Crash or no crash, you still cannot afford because it is either still too expensive for you or you had lost your job.
Crash will benefit many people except you.
Huh?
Tot he already bought a unit at flamingo valley? Have not been follow up with this troll story since last year?
What is the lastest story? Last heard laguna reported ah tan trick to get 90% loan... did ah tan get it from his employer?
http://business.asiaone.com/news/odds-ecb-rate-cut-next-week-analysts
Odds on for ECB rate cut next week: Analysts
I think this thread should be re-named as :
Cash Storm is Coming !!!
With all the central banks flooding the market with massive amounts of paper money, CASH will be seen crashing onto our shores waves after waves.
Wanton noodles will hit $5 in hawker centre in NO TIME!
Those holding cash (including poor Office Boy!) will be facing major erosion.
We have already seen how our $100K since 2008-2009 is now worth about $80K only! And when seen from property perspective, thats worth even lesser!
So dear readers, please Think, Think, Think ... cling onto something that can be used to hedge the inflation even property prices only goes up 1% per quarter or month, it is better than leaving it in the bank.
Those who MTBs, this maybe your last chance to grab something before you and your children realised you are now in the lower social echeleon. I am say you have seen these people, people who cannot dream of owning a PC because they never had the chance to (financially).
Think, my friends, Think.
If a big economy like US can avert a deep depression, what to mention Singapore property market, which is totally controlled by the government ?
Price drop 15% ? Nevermind, we stop land sales, remove the ABSD, remove the loan restrictions to foreigners, etc.
We are even know to give discount on the 3% initial stamp duty during bad times to ensure that the property market turn around! ... Those were the days ...
DKSG
Certainly agree....and ppty will be one of those assets I will cling on tight tight! And landed being limted in Singapore, I will cling onto it even tighter!
Especially when its so difficult to buy with all the ABSD, SSD etc. If I have multiple ppty of various segments, landed will be the last to be sold. Furthermore, the purported supply glut will be in condo and tsunami of land govt land sales are for condos and not landed...even my 85 year old Ah-Ma also tell me she will not sell her semi-D at clover to buy a new condo even though its super lok kok :D She said condo not only unlimited, the sky's also the limit. Today limit 40 story, tomorrow 50 story, next time maybe 100 story. Landed is different, its limited and no new supply unless one buy from existing owners....
Dun understand why thread-starter use the chart and target landed. If drop, all will drop. And usually for multiple ppty holders, usually condo is the 1st to be liquidated....I seldon see people sell landed first. If sell landed, usually is to buy bigger landed....
Landed has always been limited and again it wont be a factor when crisis hit Singapore. good decent size landed is only worth keeping if you really own it (not the bank) and more importantly you must also have enough excess cash to hand down to your children to start a family if you mati mati wish to cling on to it. Else children will wish for the death of the old man so that they can cash out to buy condo.
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2052/uraq113b.png
Landed has always been limited and again it wont be a factor when crisis hit Singapore. good decent size landed is only worth keeping if you really own it (not the bank) and more importantly you must also have enough excess cash to hand down to your children to start a family if you mati mati wish to cling on to it. Else children will wish for the death of the old man so that they can cash out to buy condo.
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2052/uraq113b.png
The graph uses 4Q98 as the base, had the graph show 1Q97 as the base, the picture may be very different. Wonder if anyone has a graph using 1Q97 as the base index of 100 for all property types.
Someone posted it before. I think it look similar to this..
Like i said before, in 1996, everyone was also saying freehold landed is limited, better hold tight tight.
http://www.singaporepropertycycle.com.sg/charts/Singapore-Property-Price-Index-by-Landed-and-Non-Landed-Property.jpg
Someone posted it before. I think it look similar to this..
Like i said before, in 1996, everyone was also saying freehold landed is limited, better hold tight tight.
http://www.singaporepropertycycle.com.sg/charts/Singapore-Property-Price-Index-by-Landed-and-Non-Landed-Property.jpg
This graph uses 4Q98 as the base too.
This graph uses 4Q98 as the base too.
No point asking TS such questions. He doesn't even know how to interpret his own chart.
And IIRC, the interest rate for during 2000 and 2008 were pretty stable, however we did see a massive price correction of landed property during both period, which I believe DSR for landed owners were clearly <50%.
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b566/proper-t/ppi_zpsdad31159.jpg
The convergence will happen at some point in the future but it could be 3-4years down the road. Basically it will happen when the big recession comes and I don't think it'll be in the next 12 mths.
This graph uses 4Q98 as the base too.
Thats a pretty silly question actually.
why would using a higher price point as base reference make any difference to how the market track property prices? Ultimately it is still affordability and demand that drive the market, not the chart.
Are you thinking that by moving the base point higher, the entire property market have more room to move even higher?
The convergence will happen at some point in the future but it could be 3-4years down the road. Basically it will happen when the big recession comes and I don't think it'll be in the next 12 mths.
you will need to be superman who wear underwear outside to believe that with ABSD, SSD and LTV restriction, investors (not home owner) are still keen on putting money in landed property.
Thats a pretty silly question actually.
If this is a silly question -
The graph uses 4Q98 as the base, had the graph show 1Q97 as the base, the picture may be very different. Wonder if anyone has a graph using 1Q97 as the base index of 100 for all property types.
Then this is a ???? answer
Someone posted it before. I think it look similar to this..
Like i said before, in 1996, everyone was also saying freehold landed is limited, better hold tight tight.
http://www.singaporepropertycycle.com.sg/charts/Singapore-Property-Price-Index-by-Landed-and-Non-Landed-Property.jpg
you will need to be superman who wear underwear outside to believe that with ABSD, SSD and LTV restriction, investors (not home owner) are still keen on putting money in landed property.
There is always a few superman in the market rightly or wrongly. Rationally, it may not be the best bet. But markets have the ability to stay irrational longer than we can stay solvent.
There is always a few superman in the market rightly or wrongly. Rationally, it may not be the best bet. But markets have the ability to stay irrational longer than we can stay solvent.
Wrong quote lah. In property we only become insolvent when market become rational not irrational. Irrational means huat Liao
When it becomes irrational bearish for a prolonged period, people lose their pants.
Landed has always been limited and again it wont be a factor when crisis hit Singapore. good decent size landed is only worth keeping if you really own it (not the bank) and more importantly you must also have enough excess cash to hand down to your children to start a family if you mati mati wish to cling on to it. Else children will wish for the death of the old man so that they can cash out to buy condo.
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2052/uraq113b.png
So again my question, why do you say only landed or its owners will suffer? Why not the other classes of ppty like apt, condo, HDB? Any ppty buyers who over commit will mati, regardless of the type when poo hit the fan, who wish to cling on to it.
So again my question, why do you say only landed or its owners will suffer? Why not the other classes of ppty like apt, condo, HDB? Any ppty buyers who over commit will mati, regardless of the type when poo hit the fan, who wish to cling on to it.
The reason is simple. Landed property prices has climb too fast and furious and it has lose it economic sense of being a home, and you can easily tell from the rental
Assuming 3K rent / 1m asset, for someone living in a 4m landed property, the opportunity cost will be around 9 to 12k per month, which is around $300 to 400 per day, excluding all other expenses, wear and tear etc.
Don't prove yourselves to be a fool....it is no brainer that landed do not have good rental yield. So if your intention is to rent, wouldn't it better to get 2/3 MM to rent out rather than 1 normal terrace unit?
It is going up because of land scarcity. Understand?? Did u often see land being tender for landed development these days??
And as so many pointed out, if landed drop, all others will also drop. There is no such thing that landed drop while your EC maintain its price level!:2cents:
The reason is simple. Landed property prices has climb too fast and furious and it has lose it economic sense of being a home, and you can easily tell from the rental
Assuming 3K rent / 1m asset, for someone living in a 4m landed property, the opportunity cost will be around 9 to 12k per month, which is around $300 to 400 per day, excluding all other expenses, wear and tear etc.
Don't prove yourselves to be a fool....it is no brainer that landed do not have good rental yield. So if your intention is to rent, wouldn't it better to get 2/3 MM to rent out rather than 1 normal terrace unit?
It is going up because of land scarcity. Understand?? Did u often see land being tender for landed development these days??
And as so many pointed out, if landed drop, all others will also drop. There is no such thing that landed drop while your EC maintain its price level!:2cents:
Rent is actually the best parameter to gauge if the property price has gone beyond its true economic value of a home.
At the moment, for condo, the ballpark is around $3k rent per $1m apartment. So if someone living in a 4M landed property decided to cash out today and buy 4 units of $1m condo, he/she will be able to to live in one and rent out 3 others to collect around $9k of additional income for doing almost nothing, or $108K per year, or 2.7% yield over your initial $4m assets
so the logic behind this is, how many family will actually value that "landed tag" more than having additional $300 in your pocket everyday.
so when landed property owners wakes up decides to cash out for the sake of their future and children, you will know where the money will flow to. Even a fool will know this answer..:D
Bro, landed is just not for u la...hahaha....talk about economic value....so what is logic and economic value?? OCR at 1300psf and cluster landed at less than 500psf?? Which one u buy if u based on economic value and logic?
So EC psf will hit 1300psf while landed psf will continue to drop??
What economic value is there for a sedan car compared to a 10 seater van if the van is cheaper? What logic is there if a 2500sqf terrace cost 1.5mil while a condo of 1300sqf cost more than 1.2mil in the same district?? Who will buy porsche if u talk about economic value?? Come on bro, don't u get it??
Again, I told u there are seldom ppl buying landed just for renting as primary reason.
Rent is actually the best parameter to gauge if the property price has gone beyond its true economic value of a home.
At the moment, for condo, the ballpark is around $3k rent per $1m apartment. So if someone living in a 4M landed property decided to cash out today and buy 4 units of $1m condo, he/she will be able to to live in one and rent out 3 others to collect around $9k of additional income for doing almost nothing, or $108K per year, or 2.7% yield over your initial $4m assets
so the logic behind this is, how many family will actually value that "landed tag" more than having additional $300 in your pocket everyday.
Bro, landed is just not for u la...hahaha....talk about economic value....so what is logic and economic value?? OCR at 1300psf and cluster landed at less than 500psf?? Which one u buy if u based on economic value and logic?
So EC psf will hit 1300psf while landed psf will continue to drop??
What economic value is there for a sedan car compared to a 10 seater van if the van is cheaper? What logic is there if a 2500sqf terrace cost 1.5mil while a condo of 1300sqf cost more than 1.2mil in the same district?? Who will buy porsche if u talk about economic value?? Come on bro, don't u get it??
Again, I told u there are seldom ppl buying landed just for renting as primary reason.
Quantum is actually more important than psf today because as family size shrink, more and more families are willing to sacrifice space for lifestyle and convenience. For landed, if one doesnt need the space, all that you own are wasted. So might as well extract the value of these excess space by converting them into several condos for rental instead.
I have heard many people saying that buying landed is not for rental etc, so my question is, if there is not rental potential and not capital appreciation potential due to ABSD, SSD, LTV, then what is the point of holding on to landed?
Quantum is actually more important than psf today because as family size shrink, more and more families are willing to sacrifice space for lifestyle and convenience. For landed, if one doesnt need the space, all that you own are wasted. So might as well extract the value of these excess space by converting them into several condos for rental instead.
I have heard many people saying that buying landed is not for rental etc, so my question is, if there is not rental potential and not capital appreciation potential due to ABSD, SSD, LTV, then what is the point of holding on to landed?
No offence bro....I'm beginning to wonder if you are a ppty developer (Frgrance kind) who wants to buy land to build MM?
Sorry man....I'm really not willing to sacrifice space for life style and convenience. Maybe you are....not me man. Especially when Sg gets increasing crowded....the last thing i want is to come back home and squeeze onto a queen size bed with my wife when in the day time I'm already squeeze left, right, centre on the road, at the restuarant and the shopping centre.
let me share with you from my prospective if you have not heard from anyone...:2cents:
if u dont need the space and got no money or not enough money, then very obvious, dont go for landed. this goes not only in buying property. if you can only afford a 42 inch TV, then please dont try to buy a 56 inch tv and so on...
what abcd or ssd or whatever u call it, dont be too shortsighted. ppl who buy landed normally dont flip like in condo those days or even now...put up a longer horizon, if not, then u go for MM. again, let me say the fact is, land is scarce. so dont hold landed then hold what?? pigeon unit in 40 storey high condo which cost as much as landed or slightly lower then landed as I have show u some eg??
Quantum is actually more important than psf today because as family size shrink, more and more families are willing to sacrifice space for lifestyle and convenience. For landed, if one doesnt need the space, all that you own are wasted. So might as well extract the value of these excess space by converting them into several condos for rental instead.
I have heard many people saying that buying landed is not for rental etc, so my question is, if there is not rental potential and not capital appreciation potential due to ABSD, SSD, LTV, then what is the point of holding on to landed?
what abcd or ssd or whatever u call it, dont be too shortsighted. ppl who buy landed normally dont flip like in condo those days or even now...put up a longer horizon, if not, then u go for MM. again, let me say the fact is, land is scarce. so dont hold landed then hold what?? pigeon unit in 40 storey high condo which cost as much as landed or slightly lower then landed as I have show u some eg??
Pigeon hole bubble.
:D
let me share with you from my prospective if you have not heard from anyone...:2cents:
if u dont need the space and got no money or not enough money, then very obvious, dont go for landed. this goes not only in buying property. if you can only afford a 42 inch TV, then please dont try to buy a 56 inch tv and so on...
what abcd or ssd or whatever u call it, dont be too shortsighted. ppl who buy landed normally dont flip like in condo those days or even now...put up a longer horizon, if not, then u go for MM. again, let me say the fact is, land is scarce. so dont hold landed then hold what?? pigeon unit in 40 storey high condo which cost as much as landed or slightly lower then landed as I have show u some eg??
There is nothing new to what you are saying. All you need to do is ask yourself what was property investment like in the 90s, what were property investors thinking when they bought their landed property at the peak? How did it come down so hard and so fast? Are those detached houses investors not aware that landed are limited? And they should hold for long terms?
During good times, there is no need to talking about tightening of belt. It is only when recession hits and job retrenchment, then people will wake up and realize that they dont have what it takes to pull through the recession.
The same goes for buying luxury cars. Do you think that all luxury car driver are rich? You will be surprise how many are buying them using 100% loan.
I am old enough to see through several such cycles and I always remember there are only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
I am old enough to see through several such cycles and I always remember there are only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
Its amazing the lengths some people go to just to prove their own statement on infinite human stupidity...
Just in this thread alone:
1. TS uses a chart to try to strike fear that a crash is imminent and then goes on to say that certain segments will crash whilst others will not when the exact same chart historically shows all segments of the property market to converge whenever a crash occurs.
2. See post #50.
From other threads
3. Tells people to compare maintenance cost of a condo against the utility bills of a landed
btw, you might want to use maintenance cost of The Marq to compare to your landed utilities bills. I am sure that will be more appropriate..
4. Superb math skills
Today paper say there were 100 landed property break in cases last year. which mean, everyday almost 3 houses will get hit.
5. View from other forumers
he makes as much sense as his arguments that the 3rd IR will be in jurong
There's more but I don't have the time to cover infinity.
Quantum is actually more important than psf today...
What quantum are you talking??
I will sell my 2700sf apartment at Hamilton Scotts for $9-mil..
And buy 3 Luxus Hills inter-terrace cost $9-mil.. I'll stay in 1.. 1 for my son.. 1 for my daugher..
This is my so-called "quantum" :D
What quantum are you talking??
I will sell my 2700sf apartment at Hamilton Scotts for $9-mil..
And buy 3 Luxus Hills inter-terrace cost $9-mil.. I'll stay in 1.. 1 for my son.. 1 for my daugher..
This is my so-called "quantum" :D
thats if your Hamilton Scotts is fully paid loh. which I doubt so.
Haha Ringo....Ringo....Still trying to talk down landed properties like this is your full time job! Only idiots will believe in you.
Are you out of your mind? Your comparison is totally way out by a long distance. How can you compare a Lexus with a Corolla although both are Toyota cars? These are two separate classes. People who buy landed properties are mainly for own stay and for the space to enjoy. Given the level of congestion and land scarcity in Singapore, space become a precious item and landed property owners are not easily swayed to sell their houses like you said.
If landed property prices do go down, many existing landed owners will the opportunity to buy more instead of selling (me included). These owners can see the long term value of a landed property. I am sorry that your talk on landed property crashing will remain an illusion to you for a long time.
Rent is actually the best parameter to gauge if the property price has gone beyond its true economic value of a home.
At the moment, for condo, the ballpark is around $3k rent per $1m apartment. So if someone living in a 4M landed property decided to cash out today and buy 4 units of $1m condo, he/she will be able to to live in one and rent out 3 others to collect around $9k of additional income for doing almost nothing, or $108K per year, or 2.7% yield over your initial $4m assets
so the logic behind this is, how many family will actually value that "landed tag" more than having additional $300 in your pocket everyday.
Haha Ringo....Ringo....Still trying to talk down landed properties like this is your full time job! Only idiots will believe in you.
Are you out of your mind? Your comparison is totally way out by a long distance. How can you compare a Lexus with a Corolla although both are Toyota cars? These are two separate classes. People who buy landed properties are mainly for own stay and for the space to enjoy. Given the level of congestion and land scarcity in Singapore, space become a precious item and landed property owners are not easily swayed to sell their houses like you said.
If landed property prices do go down, many existing landed owners will the opportunity to buy more instead of selling (me included). These owners can see the long term value of a landed property. I am sorry that your talk on landed property crashing will remain an illusion to you for a long time.
Please do not hijack this thread to brag about your wealth because behind the computer anybody can say how rich and handsome they are, it is just your word vs mine. So, its pointless. I hope you get it.
Haha, Ringo...Ringo....Why keep talking bullshit? Your theory are all bullshit, understand?
Please do not hijack this thread to brag about your wealth because behind the computer anybody can say how rich and handsome they are, it is just your word vs mine. So, its pointless. I hope you get it.
[QUOTE=Ringo33]There is nothing new to what you are saying. All you need to do is ask yourself what was property investment like in the 90s, what were property investors thinking when they bought their landed property at the peak? How did it come down so hard and so fast? Are those detached houses investors not aware that landed are limited? And they should hold for long terms?
During good times, there is no need to talking about tightening of belt. It is only when recession hits and job retrenchment, then people will wake up and realize that they dont have what it takes to pull through the recession.
(deleted)
[QUOTE]
Again you have not answered my question....why did you single out landed? As far as I could remember, all ppty segments (HDB, apt, condos, landed) were peak in the 90s before all crashed after AFC.
So if you say conditions are similiar then and now, why this time only landed will crash while other segments wouldn't? Doesn't gel leh :confused:
[quote=Ringo33]There is nothing new to what you are saying. All you need to do is ask yourself what was property investment like in the 90s, what were property investors thinking when they bought their landed property at the peak? How did it come down so hard and so fast? Are those detached houses investors not aware that landed are limited? And they should hold for long terms?
During good times, there is no need to talking about tightening of belt. It is only when recession hits and job retrenchment, then people will wake up and realize that they dont have what it takes to pull through the recession.
(deleted)
[quote]
Again you have not answered my question....why did you single out landed? As far as I could remember, all ppty segments (HDB, apt, condos, landed) were peak in the 90s before all crashed after AFC.
So if you say conditions are similiar then and now, why this time only landed will crash while other segments wouldn't? Doesn't gel leh :confused:
I hope this help answer your question.
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2052/uraq113b.png
Same chart again? your universal answer to all questions.
1. Why do you think an imminent crash is coming? The 97 crash was caused by Asian financial crisis. What is going to cause your supposed crash and when do you think it will happen?
2. If a crash comes, Why do you think some segments will crash whilst others will not when the exact same chart you are using as your universal answer show otherwise?
Look back at the chart one more time, I just noticed that terrace rally more than semi d. Ha.
Look back at the chart one more time, I just noticed that terrace rally more than semi d. Ha.
That is not surprising because in the landed property segment, detached housing always take the lead. In this segment of the market, buyers tend to follow what the super rich are doing, hence they always do it a few step behind the market, which mean entering at the tail end of the cycle.
If you look at the below chart posted by Dtrax, you can see the during the last major crash in 1997, detached housing are coming down fast and furious while terrace housing are still chioging. Perhaps in those days, information are less available hence to a certain degree that is some lagging effect. But the same pattern is happening now as we speak, because human have short memory.
I think this is very similar to why institutional investors will tend to lead in the stock market before retail investors jump in to buy or sell.
In the luxury condo segment costing >$5m, we have already seen a slow down or correction (as you can see from the chart), and detached housing has already slowing down. the only that is still chionging are the terrace housing, perhaps they have an ultra long term outlook.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8491119713_d433249926_c.jpg
That is not surprising because in the landed property segment, detached housing always take the lead. In this segment of the market, buyers tend to follow what the super rich are doing, hence they always do it a few step behind the market, which mean entering at the tail end of the cycle.
If you look at the below chart posted by Dtrax, you can see the during the last major crash in 1997, detached housing are coming down fast and furious while terrace housing are still chioging. Perhaps in those days, information are less available hence to a certain degree that is some lagging effect. But the same pattern is happening now as we speak, because human have short memory.
Can you please explain the part in bold about terrace housing still `chioging` in relation to the chart you posted which I have magnified below for easy reference
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b566/proper-t/ppi-97_zps0a9d8f9a.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/proper-t/media/ppi-97_zps0a9d8f9a.jpg.html)
proud owner
02-05-13, 16:13
one thing for sure ..
if landed at Watten were to drop ... sure can find buyer ...
my friend lives there ... long time ...
according to him ... everytime mkt drop ... FEO's family member will buy ...
I think they are hoping to eventually own the entire watten estate ... expanding their Ng's Mansion ..
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-02/fed-open-to-expanding-qe-as-it-counters-talk-of-tapering.html
Facing the risk of a fourth straight summertime slowdown, Federal Reserve officials raised the prospect of increasing the monthly pace of bond buying above $85 billion to guard against any slump in growth or employment.
one thing for sure ..
if landed at Watten were to drop ... sure can find buyer ...
my friend lives there ... long time ...
according to him ... everytime mkt drop ... FEO's family member will buy ...
I think they are hoping to eventually own the entire watten estate ... expanding their Ng's Mansion ..
were they involved in building the landed houses there in the old days??
thomaspaine
03-05-13, 12:07
The reason is simple. Landed property prices has climb too fast and furious and it has lose it economic sense of being a home, and you can easily tell from the rental
Assuming 3K rent / 1m asset, for someone living in a 4m landed property, the opportunity cost will be around 9 to 12k per month, which is around $300 to 400 per day, excluding all other expenses, wear and tear etc.
Hi Ringo33
i have been following your Landed vs Condo arguments for quite a while now and I think your views are too biased.
How do you explain why women pay ridiculous amounts of money for a HERMES bag and men pay hefty amounts of cash to buy a ferrari ??
Hi Ringo33
i have been following your Landed vs Condo arguments for quite a while now and I think your views are too biased.
How do you explain why women pay ridiculous amounts of money for a HERMES bag and men pay hefty amounts of cash to buy a ferrari ??
It's either they have money or they want to look like they have money. Some might go as far as buying fake branded good to make them feel and think like they have money.
And this is exactly the reason why I am saying that prices of landed property no long carries the economic value of home, it is just a hot potatos which everyone is hoping will get hotter and hotter till it explode.
Hi Ringo33
i have been following your Landed vs Condo arguments for quite a while now and I think your views are too biased.
How do you explain why women pay ridiculous amounts of money for a HERMES bag and men pay hefty amounts of cash to buy a ferrari ??
:cheers4:
The 'fan' club is growing by the day...
:cheers4:
The 'fan' club is growing by the day...
Its nice to have guys like them around to make us look good.
Its nice to have guys like them around to make us look good.
fully agree!
It's either they have money or they want to look like they have money. Some might go as far as buying fake branded good to make them feel and think like they have money.
And this is exactly the reason why I am saying that prices of landed property no long carries the economic value of home, it is just a hot potatos which everyone is hoping will get hotter and hotter till it explode.
not everyone has a huge inferiority complex. There is not a whole lot to try to pretend to be rich.
not everyone has a huge inferiority complex. There is not a whole lot to try to pretend to be rich.
No point guessing lah. its only when the tide goes down, then we will know who is swimming naked. however judging by what I read from 2012 household income report, I am pretty certain that many are actually swimming naked.
History will repeat itself and it always will
what have you deduce from the 2012 household report? please enlighten and highlight the fact here. Does it mentioned who stays in landed?
No point guessing lah. its only when the tide goes down, then we will know who is swimming naked. however judging by what I read from 2012 household income report, I am pretty certain that many are actually swimming naked.
History will repeat itself and it always will
what have you deduce from the 2012 household report? please enlighten and highlight the fact here. Does it mentioned who stays in landed?
Have you read the report? Which section of the report do you not understand?
hahaha...it is not that i dont understand. I am puzzled by your remark "judging by what I read from 2012 household income report, I am pretty certain that many are actually swimming naked".......this is where i'm coming from. point to me what makes you deduce this remark and highlight the FACT here. not guessing here and there wasting time.;)
Have you read the report? Which section of the report do you not understand?
hahaha...it is not that i dont understand. I am puzzled by your remark "judging by what I read from 2012 household income report, I am pretty certain that many are actually swimming naked".......this is where i'm coming from. point to me what makes you deduce this remark and highlight the FACT here. not guessing here and there wasting time.;)
Since you have read the report, why dont you list down
1) What is the average price of Landed property (your estimate)
2) What is the average household of landed property
3) What is the average income of person living in landed property.
I am sure if you put them together you will know what I mean by "swimming naked"
Then again, I am not expecting you not to keep talking about the word NAKED because kids always get really excited when they hear adult mentioning words like naked or even sammyboy.
Someone still trying to increase his 'fan' base here.
Please tell us how you arrived at and what conclusions you are pointing out in your tide statement?
Does the report show how much debt or liabilities the household have?
Does it show the cash reserves that the household have?
What about rich semi-retirees whose income may be low (say earning only token director's fees for e.g) but sitting on a huge mountain of cash? Does the report show you the actual financial position of such households?
Walk around the nearest mature landed neighbourhood. How many houses do you see with older couples who have lived there for years and probably have zero loans on their property. Their sons or daughter who are still living with them may have just started work.
Household income doesn't prove a thing until you know the full financial position.
hahaha...you are really funny. you are the one who use the word and i still dont know what are you deducing from the report and u ask me to list down, something wrong with u.....
Since you have read the report, why dont you list down
1) What is the average price of Landed property (your estimate)
2) What is the average household of landed property
3) What is the average income of person living in landed property.
I am sure if you put them together you will know what I mean by "swimming naked"
Then again, I am not expecting you not to keep talking about the word NAKED because kids always get really excited when they hear adult mentioning words like naked or even sammyboy.
hahaha...you are really funny. you are the one who use the word and i still dont know what are you deducing from the report and u ask me to list down, something wrong with u.....
Its impossible to teach the blind how to drive, so I am definitely not going to waste my time doing that.
hahaha...this is lagi funny, u talk nonsense and then ppl ask u to clarify u say ppl blind....u really got prob, as many can see. who is blind?? i need not say. :o
it is good that u dont want to say, becuase that confirm is piece of shit nonsense again, waste my time. now that u dont want to say, then case close...:o
Its impossible to teach the blind how to drive, so I am definitely not going to waste my time doing that.
hahaha...this is lagi funny, u talk nonsense and then ppl ask u to clarify u say ppl blind....u really got prob, as many can see. who is blind?? i need not say. :o
it is good that u dont want to say, becuase that confirm is piece of shit nonsense again, waste my time. now that u dont want to say, then case close...:o
No need to discourage him lah. Let him continue to post and fall all over himself. He is revealing himself to more and more people day by day. We don't even have to put in effort. He is just digging the hole deeper and deeper every time he post.
hahaha...this is lagi funny, u talk nonsense and then ppl ask u to clarify u say ppl blind....u really got prob, as many can see. who is blind?? i need not say. :o
it is good that u dont want to say, becuase that confirm is piece of shit nonsense again, waste my time. now that u dont want to say, then case close...:o
I honestly dont see a point in engaging in this sort of meaningless discussion. If you have a different opinion to what I have posted, why not just present you case with some facts and figure instead of asking pointless questions.
As I said, if you think that landed property still has plenty of head room to move high, then please present your case with facts and figures. (which honestly I doubt you will be able to do so). but dont be ashamed of that because you are not alone.
For the the o
Since you have read the report, why dont you list down
1) What is the average price of Landed property (your estimate)
2) What is the average household of landed property
3) What is the average income of person living in landed property.
I am sure if you put them together you will know what I mean by "swimming naked"
Then again, I am not expecting you not to keep talking about the word NAKED because kids always get really excited when they hear adult mentioning words like naked or even sammyboy.
The PROBLEM with your conclusion is that you must use the average BUYING price of landed property. not the current price.
you need to see how many people bought landed in the past 2-3 years at high prices vs the total stock of landed (70k)
The average household income of landed owners is low just because a lot of them bought their house like 20 years ago.... like my inlaws... Their household income is zero but their house I think cost like 200k 20 years back and is fully paid.
The way you analyse is all WRONG as you don't have the household income of the people who bought recently.
The PROBLEM with your conclusion is that you must use the average BUYING price of landed property. not the current price.
you need to see how many people bought landed in the past 2-3 years at high prices vs the total stock of landed (70k)
The average household income of landed owners is low just because a lot of them bought their house like 20 years ago.... like my inlaws... Their household income is zero but their house I think cost like 200k 20 years back and is fully paid.
The way you analyse is all WRONG as you don't have the household income of the people who bought recently.
Several of my neighbours and inlaws neighbours owned landed bought some 40 years ago at $30-40k only, happily retired with zero income, it's their home, even if price crashed jialat jialat also won't sell...:2cents:
Several of my neighbours and inlaws neighbours owned landed bought some 40 years ago at $30-40k only, happily retired with zero income, it's their home, even if price crashed jialat jialat also won't sell...:2cents:
I am happily retired earning only a small salary from my former co as a consultant on a contract basis. My landed is fully paid up and I have no intention of selling.
I really question the motives of TS. Always posting all these negative comments and trying to talk down the market. So many have tried aka Mr Basic etc. and failed miserably.
For the the o
Cat got your tongue?
Pray continue with your postings...your 'fan' base is expanding
The way you analyse is all WRONG as you don't have the household income of the people who bought recently.
I really question the motives of TS. Always posting all these negative comments and trying to talk down the market. So many have tried aka Mr Basic etc. and failed miserably.
thanks for pointing that out....i was thinking that I will be wasting my time again thats why i dont mind whatever he says....he thought he knows everything. :doh:
The PROBLEM with your conclusion is that you must use the average BUYING price of landed property. not the current price.
you need to see how many people bought landed in the past 2-3 years at high prices vs the total stock of landed (70k)
The average household income of landed owners is low just because a lot of them bought their house like 20 years ago.... like my inlaws... Their household income is zero but their house I think cost like 200k 20 years back and is fully paid.
The way you analyse is all WRONG as you don't have the household income of the people who bought recently.
With a greeting population, household income will not be a good barometer. They should use an additional parameter , networth of people in a household.
Someone still trying to increase his 'fan' base here.
Please tell us how you arrived at and what conclusions you are pointing out in your tide statement?
Does the report show how much debt or liabilities the household have?
Does it show the cash reserves that the household have?
What about rich semi-retirees whose income may be low (say earning only token director's fees for e.g) but sitting on a huge mountain of cash? Does the report show you the actual financial position of such households?
Walk around the nearest mature landed neighbourhood. How many houses do you see with older couples who have lived there for years and probably have zero loans on their property. Their sons or daughter who are still living with them may have just started work.
Household income doesn't prove a thing until you know the full financial position.
Properties are bought to be kept especially FH landed near or in city. It should be preserved.
I am happily retired earning only a small salary from my former co as a consultant on a contract basis. My landed is fully paid up and I have no intention of selling.
I really question the motives of TS. Always posting all these negative comments and trying to talk down the market. So many have tried aka Mr Basic etc. and failed miserably.
Properties are bought to be kept especially FH landed near or in city. It should be preserved.
110% agree ;)
Preserve and pass them on as gift if you have children. They may be able to afford one in the future but at high $psf. It is better for them to invest in other real estate or other investment tools. You can even leave a legacy with your name on the land titles.
110% agree ;)
With a greeting population, household income will not be a good barometer. They should use an additional parameter , networth of people in a household.
A lot of sensitive information will need to be collated.
The PROBLEM with your conclusion is that you must use the average BUYING price of landed property. not the current price.
you need to see how many people bought landed in the past 2-3 years at high prices vs the total stock of landed (70k)
The average household income of landed owners is low just because a lot of them bought their house like 20 years ago.... like my inlaws... Their household income is zero but their house I think cost like 200k 20 years back and is fully paid.
The way you analyse is all WRONG as you don't have the household income of the people who bought recently.
Like in any investment, nobody is interested in historical price, what investors are more interested to know is how the price will move from here.
If you think that the report is pointless, then let me ask, why should government bother about sky high property price since many of these properties were bought long time ago? Perhaps government should only be concern about CM for NEW properties then?
Several of my neighbours and inlaws neighbours owned landed bought some 40 years ago at $30-40k only, happily retired with zero income, it's their home, even if price crashed jialat jialat also won't sell...:2cents:
The same applies to all property, not just for landed property only
I am happily retired earning only a small salary from my former co as a consultant on a contract basis. My landed is fully paid up and I have no intention of selling.
I really question the motives of TS. Always posting all these negative comments and trying to talk down the market. So many have tried aka Mr Basic etc. and failed miserably.
If thats your only property you have and you cant afford to take anymore housing loan because of your retirement, then you really dont have a choice. But that doesnt mean that when you are being happily retired price of landed property will not crash.
So in your opinion, do you think that landed property price will continue to surge ahead like what we have seen in the past few years?
Hahaha, u are completely insane & silly....the report is not for u to use as a tool to predict whether the landed price will move higher or clash, if u choose to use it in this way, so be it, but I see nobody supporting your idea. Anyone?? Another silly question u brought up.....let me ask u back, did govt implement any CM just for landed?? Since it has rocket so high as u said, so govt should right?? Silly right, u still don't get it don't u? The CM is not targeted in any specific segment in general! :2cents:
Like in any investment, nobody is interested in historical price, what investors are more interested to know is how the price will move from here.
If you think that the report is pointless, then let me ask, why should government bother about sky high property price since many of these properties were bought long time ago? Perhaps government should only be concern about CM for NEW properties then?
Don't be silly la, who say it will continue to surge like what it has but nobody say it will crash either....get it? I would say the price will be gradually moving upwards, in accordance to the general market sentiment!!! This is my logical assessment of the current situation barring any unforeseen circumstances.:2cents:
If thats your only property you have and you cant afford to take anymore housing loan because of your retirement, then you really dont have a choice. But that doesnt mean that when you are being happily retired price of landed property will not crash.
So in your opinion, do you think that landed property price will continue to surge ahead like what we have seen in the past few years?
Hahaha, u are completely insane & silly....the report is not for u to use as a tool to predict whether the landed price will move higher or clash, if u choose to use it in this way, so be it, but I see nobody supporting your idea. Anyone?? Another silly question u brought up.....let me ask u back, did govt implement any CM just for landed?? Since it has rocket so high as u said, so govt should right?? Silly right, u still don't get it don't u? The CM is not targeted in any specific segment in general! :2cents:
Household income report is a good indicator of affordability because if the household income remain stagnant or doesnt rise as quickly as price of property, then there is a bubble
Having said that, I am not expecting you to understand what I am talking about because you can never teach the blind how to drive. So please dont try to pretend like you understand what you are saying.
Someone is trying his best to try to twist and turn his way out of his fumble.
People have demolished his statements and now he talks about investments, prices and affordability. Can the poster below please enlighten all readers here the point you are trying to make in your statement below and how you came to your conclusion using the household income report.
Since you have read the report, why dont you list down
1) What is the average price of Landed property (your estimate)
2) What is the average household of landed property
3) What is the average income of person living in landed property.
I am sure if you put them together you will know what I mean by "swimming naked"
Then again, I am not expecting you not to keep talking about the word NAKED because kids always get really excited when they hear adult mentioning words like naked or even sammyboy.
Properties are bought to be kept especially FH landed near or in city. It should be preserved.
I long time nvr post, like your quote as always!
If thats your only property you have and you cant afford to take anymore housing loan because of your retirement, then you really dont have a choice. But that doesnt mean that when you are being happily retired price of landed property will not crash.
So in your opinion, do you think that landed property price will continue to surge ahead like what we have seen in the past few years?
I have more than sufficient cash reserves/investments to support my remaining years with enough left over for tidy trust funds for my kids and I'm sure your household income report won't tell you that. The landed is not my only property but if push comes to shove, I will definitely preserve my landed and sell the rest.
You really know how to switch topic. Did I ever say that landed prices won't crash? You were insinuating that landed owners would be caught swimming naked when the tide goes out and that it could be deduced from the household income report.
If you can't prove it via your household income report or other data, then please stop making such insinuations and stop trying to switch topic by asking people's opinion about whether landed prices will continue to surge ahead. I usually don't like to be too harsh, but after reading through all your posts, your credibility is really in question.
I have more than sufficient cash reserves/investments to support my remaining years with enough left over for tidy trust funds for my kids and I'm sure your household income report won't tell you that. The landed is not my only property but if push comes to shove, I will definitely preserve my landed and sell the rest.
You really know how to switch topic. Did I ever say that landed prices won't crash? You were insinuating that landed owners would be caught swimming naked when the tide goes out and that it could be deduced from the household income report.
If you can't prove it via your household income report or other data, then please stop making such insinuations and stop trying to switch topic by asking people's opinion about whether landed prices will continue to surge ahead. I usually don't like to be too harsh, but after reading through all your posts, your credibility is really in question.
Your retirement and your existing landed property really has got nothing to do with the intend of the thread or how the market will react in a crisis.
It is pretty obvious from the household report that income of landed household has not kept up with the unsustainable rise in the price of landed property. The same can also be said about luxury apartment that cost more than most landed property, hence we are starting to see many being depose off at huge loses.
If you disagree with this, perhaps you might want to tell us why you think that current landed property price is still affordable and sustainable.
Btw, back in 1997, there are many landed property owner who owes fully paid landed property etc, and that has not stop it from crashing hard during crisis.
Here is a snap shot of historical price movement for property in Singapore. Pretty obvious that the same bubble is developing and i am certain that history is about to repeat itself pretty soon. Perhaps when interest rate rises.
As I see it, I believe the reason why detached houses always spike at the peak of the property cycle is because of greed. After making money from condo, terrace and maybe semi, people are placing bigger bet on detached houses with hope they will make even more money.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8491119713_d433249926_c.jpg
hehehee...i also getting harsh for when i see such post....your brain grow on backside is it?
how to have household income kept up with property price? did your household income rise as much as your EC? answer this...in 5 yrs property price doubled, can your household income double? If not, then you will sell off your property at huge loses?? What logic is this?
what do you mean by landed property still affordable?? Is porsche affordable? so the price sustainable?
Back in 1997, which property segment never drop? dont show the rubbish chart again la.
:doh:
It is pretty obvious from the household report that income of landed household has not kept up with the unsustainable rise in the price of landed property. The same can also be said about luxury apartment that cost more than most landed property, hence we are starting to see many being depose off at huge loses.
If you disagree with this, perhaps you might want to tell us why you think that current landed property price is still affordable and sustainable.
Btw, back in 1997, there are many landed property owner who owes fully paid landed property etc, and that has not stop it from crashing hard during crisis.
Your retirement and your existing landed property really has got nothing to do with the intend of the thread or how the market will react in a crisis.
It is pretty obvious from the household report that income of landed household has not kept up with the unsustainable rise in the price of landed property. The same can also be said about luxury apartment that cost more than most landed property, hence we are starting to see many being depose off at huge loses.
If you disagree with this, perhaps you might want to tell us why you think that current landed property price is still affordable and sustainable.
Btw, back in 1997, there are many landed property owner who owes fully paid landed property etc, and that has not stop it from crashing hard during crisis.
Did you even get what I am saying? I am not here to argue with you over landed prices crashing but the fact that you insinuated that landed owners would be caught swimming naked when the tide goes out and deducing it from the household income report. Already a few bros have pointed out the fallacy of using that report which you have not rebutted at all. All you have done is switch topic and try to divert attention away from the fact that you could not substantiate your insinuations.
Did you even get what I am saying? I am not here to argue with you over landed prices crashing but the fact that you insinuated that landed owners would be caught swimming naked when the tide goes out and deducing it from the household income report. Already a few bros have pointed out the fallacy of using that report which you have not rebutted at all. All you have done is switch topic and try to divert attention away from the fact that you could not substantiate your insinuations.
If landed property owner are as rich and wealthy as what many here is saying, then I dont see why household income is not reflecting it and landed property price could crash so badly during past crisis.
If that is not call "swimming naked" as a figure of speech, then what is?
If landed property owner are as rich and wealthy as what many here is saying, then I dont see why household income is not reflecting it and landed property price could crash so badly during past crisis.
If that is not call "swimming naked" as a figure of speech, then what is?
You have obviously not been reading all the posts by the bros here. I brought up my own example to show you why household income may not reflect the actual wealth of landed owners but you obviously cannot accept it. I can see why a lot of the bros here just cannot stomach your kind of circular thinking. Keep re-hashing up the same points over and over again.
My advice to you - stop trying so hard to win at all cost. Going by all the responses so far, I doubt if anyone here takes you seriously. The harder you try, the more people are going to turn against you and eventually you'll be labelled a laughing stock. Its only your ego.
Well done Ringo33,
Just continue to post the same chart over and over again.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzz2t2psWo1r6aoq4o1_500.gif
You have obviously not been reading all the posts by the bros here. I brought up my own example to show you why household income may not reflect the actual wealth of landed owners but you obviously cannot accept it. I can see why a lot of the bros here just cannot stomach your kind of circular thinking. Keep re-hashing up the same points over and over again.
My advice to you - stop trying so hard to win at all cost. Going by all the responses so far, I doubt if anyone here takes you seriously. The harder you try, the more people are going to turn against you and eventually you'll be labelled a laughing stock. Its only your ego.
One common mistake that many investor make is to think that everyone think and act the same way.
If you think household income is not an accurate indicator, then could you tell us what is a more accurate indicator?
Could you also explain why detached housing suffer the worst crash in the past crisis when detached house owner are of people with higher net-worth?
The property boom we are seeing today is mainly caused by cheap loan and higher leverage, and there is no exceptions.
come dont run away....answer this first.
how to have household income kept up with property price? did your household income rise as much as your EC? answer this...in 5 yrs property price doubled, can your household income double? If not, then you will sell off your property at huge loses?? What logic is this?
Back in 1997, which property segment never drop?
One common mistake that many investor make is to think that everyone think and act the same way.
If you think household income is not an accurate indicator, then could you tell us what is a more accurate indicator?
Could you also explain why detached housing suffer the worst crash in the past crisis when detached house owner are of people with higher net-worth?
The property boom we are seeing today is mainly caused by cheap loan and higher leverage, and there is no exceptions.
One common mistake that many investor make is to think that everyone think and act the same way.
If you think household income is not an accurate indicator, then could you tell us what is a more accurate indicator?
Could you also explain why detached housing suffer the worst crash in the past crisis when detached house owner are of people with higher net-worth?
The property boom we are seeing today is mainly caused by cheap loan and higher leverage, and there is no exceptions.
Always using the same arguments to intimidate other forumers.
DC33 already mentioned it earlier but TS obviously doesn't bother to read
With a greeting population, household income will not be a good barometer. They should use an additional parameter , networth of people in a household.
The price index just shows price movement. All it takes is a few super low transactions to affect the price index. Having the greatest price drop is not the same as having the most forced sales transactions. What it does not show is which segment suffered the most in percentage terms of forced sales transactions during the crisis.
Readers here can refer to page 1 and 2 of the thread I started below to read the facts. In fact, pg 2 is where this current TS had nothing to rebutt and announced that he would quit my thread but then goes back on his word to keep coming back to post several times.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=17132
Here is a snap shot of historical price movement for property in Singapore. Pretty obvious that the same bubble is developing and i am certain that history is about to repeat itself pretty soon. Perhaps when interest rate rises.
As I see it, I believe the reason why detached houses always spike at the peak of the property cycle is because of greed. After making money from condo, terrace and maybe semi, people are placing bigger bet on detached houses with hope they will make even more money.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8491119713_d433249926_c.jpg
Hi Ringo,
Base on the chart, you said the pattern of 97 and the current one is the same.. & is pretty obvious blah blah blah..
NB! both pattern is totally difference leh :D
Price of landed property has already reached a unsustainable level and you could easily see that by studying the rental yield for such property.
Rental, is perhaps the most accurate indicator, because that is how much the market is willing to pay for living in such property. The only people who thinks otherwise are those who already leverage themselves heavily to buy one and the same people will argue that buying landed is for own stay or for capital appreciation etc. Own stay FYI, is consumption, and in the context of landed at its current price, it is excessive and foolish consumption.
And the situation gets clearer when you look into the average income of landed property household and household members vs the average price of landed property today.
As investor, one should invest based on facts rather than dream
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2052/uraq113b.png
you keep posting that useless chart, what happen to your answer to my question??
"come dont run away....answer this first.
how to have household income kept up with property price? did your household income rise as much as your EC? answer this...in 5 yrs property price doubled, can your household income double? If not, then you will sell off your property at huge loses?? What logic is this?
Back in 1997, which property segment never drop?"
Let me ask you,
- the price of OCR condo at 1500psf sustainable? if no, then dont single out landed. if yes, then it is also just based on your assumption.
- Rental is the most accurate indicator of what?? answer this. do u know how many rental contracts transacted for landed from Mar 2012 to Mar 2013? dont know then u go google, dont talk nonsense that if rental yield drop, landed market crash....this is really really nonsense. just this 7% of landed rented out and u say if price fall it will crash. if rental for landed really fall, u think the rental for condo will hold?? see, the whole market will have a chain reaction. all will fall apart, understand, not just landed!
anyway, your cockroach mentality really use in a wrong manner....:2cents: please keep your chart, burn it and drink if u like it so much...pardon me...
Price of landed property has already reached a unsustainable level and you could easily see that by studying the rental yield for such property.
Rental, is perhaps the most accurate indicator, because that is how much the market is willing to pay for living in such property. The only people who thinks otherwise are those who already leverage themselves heavily to buy one and the same people will argue that buying landed is for own stay or for capital appreciation etc. Own stay FYI, is consumption, and in the context of landed at its current price, it is excessive and foolish consumption.
And the situation gets clearer when you look into the average income of landed property household and household members vs the average price of landed property today.
As investor, one should invest based on facts rather than dream
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2052/uraq113b.png
Hi...my eyes are on Mt Sinai only. My passion and love for this place cannot be describe with words.
Cos there is nothing to describe.
The pattern of the curves does indicate a big bubble forming for landed properties. The exact same pattern can be seen during the 97 crash.
Hi Ringo,
I even try asked my kids between 5 to 12 years old..
Seriously, all told me the pattern seen during 97 & current one is totally difference..
Worst is.. My youngest one even suan me that how come I'm so stupid.. :banghead:
Seriously, don't play me leh.. :D
Hi Ringo,
I even try asked my kids between 5 to 12 years old..
Seriously, all told me the pattern seen during 97 & current one is totally difference..
Worst is.. My youngest one even suan me that how come I'm so stupid.. :banghead:
Seriously, don't play me leh.. :D
I dont blame them. Perhaps your kids should be in this forum, not you.
I dont blame them. Perhaps your kids should be in this forum, not you.
You need company is it?
Your math and chart interpretation skills appears to be around that level.
Today paper say there were 100 landed property break in cases last year. which mean, everyday almost 3 houses will get hit.
That is not surprising because in the landed property segment, detached housing always take the lead. In this segment of the market, buyers tend to follow what the super rich are doing, hence they always do it a few step behind the market, which mean entering at the tail end of the cycle.
If you look at the below chart posted by Dtrax, you can see the during the last major crash in 1997, detached housing are coming down fast and furious while terrace housing are still chioging. Perhaps in those days, information are less available hence to a certain degree that is some lagging effect. But the same pattern is happening now as we speak, because human have short memory.
Can you please explain the part in bold about terrace housing still `chioging` in relation to the chart you posted which I have magnified below for easy reference
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b566/proper-t/ppi-97_zps0a9d8f9a.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/proper-t/media/ppi-97_zps0a9d8f9a.jpg.html)
Here is a snap shot of historical price movement for property in Singapore. Pretty obvious that the same bubble is developing and i am certain that history is about to repeat itself pretty soon. Perhaps when interest rate rises.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8491119713_d433249926_c.jpg
Where is the bubble? I see a nice uptrend on the chart. There may be a dip ( or not) but it is still an uptrend. Perhaps this can help you understand the chart a little better.
Singapore residents in 1997 is less than 3 m. Today it is Hovering close to 4m , A 30% increase. In addition , purchasing power has increase compared to 1997 with higher salary and possible influx of higher net worth citizens. Did i mention landed supply had greatly reduced since 97? Lastly , there is no ' free money ' back in 1997, but there are tons coming from US , Japan and possible Europe in the near future.
Read the charts with all these facts and not just blindly see what you want to see. Otherwise, simply base on charts and scream crash is too :doh:
Small time investors are always lagging behind the curve when investing in property. Many big time investors have already started to off load their GCBs, while those wannabe are still screaming that price will continue to rise.
Please do not bored us with all the text book talk about purchasing power ( would call it fake because of inflation) population etc. Since you bring this up, perhaps you might want to apply what you learn from text book to the real world by studying the household income report on landed property and then match that with the average price of landed property today.
You are absolutely right about the free money, but you are absolutely wrong that this free money will continue forever.
Just read a report of US recovery, and I am hopeful that interest rate will rise in the very near future, and when that happen, those who over leverage of landed property with income of less than 25k per month to feed the entire household is going to be screaming for help.
Small time investors are always lagging behind the curve when investing in property. Many big time investors have already started to off load their GCBs, while those wannabe are still screaming that price will continue to rise.....
.......
Just read a report of US recovery, and I am hopeful that interest rate will rise in the very near future, and when that happen, those who over leverage of landed property with income of less than 25k per month to feed the entire household is going to be screaming for help.
Haha... After the last hot topic "Pty price is coming down fast" by MR B.. this will be the next hot topic to argue about..
But anyway.. the "curve" thing been repeating since Q1 2012 (when ppl saw the "curve").. repeating till now.. still repeating about the "curve" thing..
"..interest rate will rise in the very near future" oso been repeating since 2009 by MR B.. repeated till MR B go MIA.. till now next person took over.. & still repeating it..
Best is to give a dateline.. eg. "After this quarter will see crash" or something..
Otherwise, the "curve" thing & the "interest rate will rise in the very near future" will keep coming back Q after Q..
YAWN.. sibeh sigh liao leh.. :sleep:
Haha... After the last hot topic "Pty price is coming down fast" by MR B.. this will be the next hot topic to argue about..
But anyway.. the "curve" thing been repeating since Q1 2012 (when ppl saw the "curve").. repeating till now.. still repeating about the "curve" thing..
"..interest rate will rise in the very near future" oso been repeating since 2009 by MR B.. repeated till MR B go MIA.. till now next person took over.. & still repeating it..
Best is to give a dateline.. eg. "After this quarter will see crash" or something..
Otherwise, the "curve" thing & the "interest rate will rise in the very near future" will keep coming back Q after Q..
YAWN.. sibeh sigh liao leh.. :sleep:
Instead of talking about MR. B or Mr. C etc, why not confront the facts and tell us why think that current landed price is sustainable when the average household income of landed property is only around 25K?
@ 25K average, that mean some might make 500k and above, while others could be earning a no more than 15K per month.
perhaps the reason why some are saying that they will not sell their landed property is because if they sell, they only way forward is downgrade.
Instead of living happily in a fully paid landed property will small salary, why not just cash out and live in a condo enjoy the facilities, while still getting decent income from rental?
Please do not bored us with all the text book talk about purchasing power ( would call it fake because of inflation) population etc. Since you bring this up, perhaps you might want to apply what you learn from text book to the real world by studying the household income report on landed property and then match that with the average price of landed property today.
You are absolutely right about the free money, but you are absolutely wrong that this free money will continue forever.
.
Why do you ask me not to bring up textbook stuff and you quote to 'learn from text book to the real world ' at the same para? Very confusing if you decided to selectively pick what you can while have a biase against others.
You are right that free money will not continue forever, but it will not end tomorrow. By the way I did not state free money last forever but merely imply the prices today reflects what is happening in 'real life' as per your quote.
By the way free money save Us and created a boom that lasted since 07. Japan had just started the same. What will happen? Your guess is as good as mine.
Why do you ask me not to bring up textbook stuff and you quote to 'learn from text book to the real world ' at the same para? Very confusing if you decided to selectively pick what you can while have a biase against others.
You are right that free money will not continue forever, but it will not end tomorrow. By the way I did not state free money last forever but merely imply the prices today reflects what is happening in 'real life' as per your quote.
By the way free money save Us and created a boom that lasted since 07. Japan had just started the same. What will happen? Your guess is as good as mine.
If you wish to convince me that there is not bubble in landed property you will have to do much better than that. Yes what you said are all very text book like
perhaps the reason why some are saying that they will not sell their landed property is because if they sell, they only way forward is downgrade.
Instead of living happily in a fully paid landed property will small salary, why not just cash out and live in a condo enjoy the facilities, while still getting decent income from rental?
Very subjective leh.. How to distinguish upgrade or downgrade between landed or condo..
There are $3-mio landed pty & condo.. oso $9-mio landed pty & condo
Some ppl choose to stay in a $9-mio condo.. while some prefer to stay in a $3-mio landed pty..
Can consider sell landed pty & upgrade to condo.. can? :D
Mr ringo, 3 times I'm posting this as to share with you that the chart and your views are questionable...so have u got any comments before more ppl add on to your list?
you keep posting that useless chart, what happen to your answer to my question??
"come dont run away....answer this first.
how to have household income kept up with property price? did your household income rise as much as your EC? answer this...in 5 yrs property price doubled, can your household income double? If not, then you will sell off your property at huge loses?? What logic is this?
Back in 1997, which property segment never drop?"
Let me ask you,
- the price of OCR condo at 1500psf sustainable? if no, then dont single out landed. if yes, then it is also just based on your assumption.
- Rental is the most accurate indicator of what?? answer this. do u know how many rental contracts transacted for landed from Mar 2012 to Mar 2013? dont know then u go google, dont talk nonsense that if rental yield drop, landed market crash....this is really really nonsense. just this 7% of landed rented out and u say if price fall it will crash. if rental for landed really fall, u think the rental for condo will hold?? see, the whole market will have a chain reaction. all will fall apart, understand, not just landed!
anyway, your cockroach mentality really use in a wrong manner....:2cents: please keep your chart, burn it and drink if u like it so much...pardon me...
If you wish to convince me that there is not bubble in landed property you will have to do much better than that. Yes what you said are all very text book like
Sorry sir, I have no wish to change your mindset. For every seller , there is a buyer and that is the market. I am merely stating the facts I see. I guess that the same can be said of you. There are always 2 side to an argument, otherwise it is known as concession and this topic would not exist. There is no right or wrong in stating facts and if it sound textbook, there must be a reason why it had existed in the first place .
Sorry sir, I have no wish to change your mindset. For every seller , there is a buyer and that is the market. I am merely stating the facts I see. I guess that the same can be said of you. There are always 2 side to an argument, otherwise it is known as concession and this topic would not exist. There is no right or wrong in stating facts and if it sound textbook, there must be a reason why it had existed in the first place .
Well said! Welcome to the 'fan' club.
The only statement I am in disagreement is the one in bold whereby you accord him way too much credit. It is obvious from his postings that TS doesn't sees any facts any at all and what's worst, is in total denial. In fact, his statements are so filmsy that so many forumers here find it so easy to poke holes in them. The fact that he can only rebut with his chart (repeated ad nauseum) and motherhood statements about the curve and textbook answers is evidence enough.
In the mean time, invitations are opened to all to join in the 'fan' club. I think at the rate we are going, we should corner the entire forum in no time.
Ringo33, please do continue to grace us with your presence.
Sorry sir, I have no wish to change your mindset. For every seller , there is a buyer and that is the market. I am merely stating the facts I see. I guess that the same can be said of you. There are always 2 side to an argument, otherwise it is known as concession and this topic would not exist. There is no right or wrong in stating facts and if it sound textbook, there must be a reason why it had existed in the first place .
actually there is no 2 sides of what we are discussing here because what we are talking about is affordability and sustainability based on current landed price vs average household income of landed property owner.
As the report has pointed out that average land property household income is around $25k per month, which mean some of which will fall way below $25K because many landed property owners are actually making more than that.
So my question is how can landed property price continue to rise or sustain at this level if income is not rising?
actually there is no 2 sides of what we are discussing here because what we are talking about is affordability and sustainability based on current landed price vs average household income of landed property owner.
As the report has pointed out that average land property household income is around $25k per month, which mean some of which will fall way below $25K because many landed property owners are actually making more than that.
So my question is how can landed property price continue to rise or sustain at this level if income is not rising?
We only have information on average, so we cannot assume the range. In reality there are many kinds of landed from your 1 story 1960s terrace to the 300m property. As such , the range could accommodate both extremes. In addition, you are assuming most landed owners have only just bought their properties , thus may be affected by the downturn. Again, with only 6% of new launches per year for landed, the majority of landed owners most probably got it cheap way before the rise. As for affordability, with new citizens of a higher wealth bracket , they could very well cover the demand side ( especially when similar size condo cost far more in the same area for most cases) substainability is the question mark. It will substain as long as the current party of free cash prevails. As of now, no one is turning the lights off yet.
As for 2 sides, plain and simple. You said crash, I say no crash, that counts 2 scenario . If landed merely corrects 20%, I am sure it will pip the interest of those that are waiting to prounce on the sideline, thus bringing about the bull cycle once more. In the longer run with an exploding population , owning a piece of precious , limited land in this little island makes good economic sense .:2cents:
We only have information on average, so we cannot assume the range. In reality there are many kinds of landed from your 1 story 1960s terrace to the 300m property. As such , the range could accommodate both extremes. In addition, you are assuming most landed owners have only just bought their properties , thus may be affected by the downturn. Again, with only 6% of new launches per year for landed, the majority of landed owners most probably got it cheap way before the rise. As for affordability, with new citizens of a higher wealth bracket , they could very well cover the demand side ( especially when similar size condo cost far more in the same area for most cases) substainability is the question mark. It will substain as long as the current party of free cash prevails. As of now, no one is turning the lights off yet.
As for 2 sides, plain and simple. You said crash, I say no crash, that counts 2 scenario . If landed merely corrects 20%, I am sure it will pip the interest of those that are waiting to prounce on the sideline, thus bringing about the bull cycle once more. In the longer run with an exploding population , owning a piece of precious , limited land in this little island makes good economic sense .:2cents:
Dont need to assume, the URA transaction volume of landed property are open information. Recently I am starting to see some sign of correction.
And btw, there is no such thing as 300m landed property in Singapore yet, the largest being sold this year is around 25m I think.
new citizen or not, they are all included in the household income report and saying new citizen are all rich and dumb can only be an assumption, not something that is worth discussing or debating unless you have numbers to show.
Instead of talking about MR. B or Mr. C etc, why not confront the facts and tell us why think that current landed price is sustainable when the average household income of landed property is only around 25K?
@ 25K average, that mean some might make 500k and above, while others could be earning a no more than 15K per month.
Frankly speaking bro, I have never study & oso not interested to know about comparing average household income & pty price, in order to know whether Land Storm is Coming..
Cos base on the past history of pty price correction.. None of it is due to comparing "average household income & pty price"
That's why I'm not interested to use both of these it as a tools to judge whether the Land Storm is Coming
Till now I still remember one last time showed us lots of facts & charts.. & even said he's full of knowledge with strong fundamental & scold ppl moron for 4-yrs.. In the end oso go MIA :D
Dont need to assume, the URA transaction volume of landed property are open information. Recently I am starting to see some sign of correction.
Correction?
Sembawang terrace in Dist 20 recently transacted at $1,858 psf, Dist 11 Greenwood terrace transacted at $2,669pf
Date
2013-04-22
SEMBAWANG HILLS ESTATE, 112 NEMESU AVENUE, FREEHOLD,TERRACE 1,496sf, $2,788,000, $1,858psf
Date
2013-04-18
159 GREENWOOD AVENUE, FREEHOLD,TERRACE,1,625sf, $4,350,000, $2,669psf
Dont need to assume, the URA transaction volume of landed property are open information. Recently I am starting to see some sign of correction.
And btw, there is no such thing as 300m landed property in Singapore yet, the largest being sold this year is around 25m I think.
new citizen or not, they are all included in the household income report and saying new citizen are all rich and dumb can only be an assumption, not something that is worth discussing or debating unless you have numbers to show.
Ringo, if its just recently, I believe you will be able to quickly quote the respective transactions that showed weakness. And since you mentioned `some', you MUST have seen at least 2 or even 3 transactions to prove the point. So besides your beloved charts, maybe you could quote those examples for us to analyze?
Thx!
new citizen or not, they are all included in the household income report and saying new citizen are all rich and dumb can only be an assumption, not something that is worth discussing or debating unless you have numbers to show.
I have not indicate in my statement that new citizens are all rich and dumb . Why do you interpret as such? On the contrary I did state land price will not crash, which indirectly imply the new purchases could be a good idea.
Please do not twist words R33. I am new here but I sense you are not really interested in discussion. In that case, just leave it as that. Throwing in spicy comments to make yourself look noble is in your own words.. Dumb.
I have not indicate in my statement that new citizens are all rich and dumb . Why do you interpret as such? On the contrary I did state land price will not crash, which indirectly imply the new purchases could be a good idea.
Please do not twist words R33. I am new here but I sense you are not really interested in discussion. In that case, just leave it as that. Throwing in spicy comments to make yourself look noble is in your own words.. Dumb.
Ringo33, you really know how to 'please' your 'fans'. Please carry on with your posts.
Since we are on the subject, can you please clarify on your post below:
new citizen or not, they are all included in the household income report and saying new citizen are all rich and dumb can only be an assumption, not something that is worth discussing or debating unless you have numbers to show.
Please let readers know what assumption you are making about new citizens when you are calling for restrictions on them to buy landed property in the thread you started below?
If, in your view, they are not rich and dumb and landed market is going to crash, won't they stay away from buying landed? Why call for restrictions then?
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16809
Should government impose restriction on ownership of landed property to prevent individual from land hogging and new citizens using citizenship to profiteer on landed property.
I have not indicate in my statement that new citizens are all rich and dumb . Why do you interpret as such? On the contrary I did state land price will not crash, which indirectly imply the new purchases could be a good idea.
Please do not twist words R33. I am new here but I sense you are not really interested in discussion. In that case, just leave it as that. Throwing in spicy comments to make yourself look noble is in your own words.. Dumb.
Obviously you are making a baseless assumption that new citizen are wealthy and they will buy regardless of price. do you have facts to support your statement that new citizens are all rushing to buy landed property instead of HDB or Condo?
As for affordability, with new citizens of a higher wealth bracket , they could very well cover the demand side
Ringo, if its just recently, I believe you will be able to quickly quote the respective transactions that showed weakness. And since you mentioned `some', you MUST have seen at least 2 or even 3 transactions to prove the point. So besides your beloved charts, maybe you could quote those examples for us to analyze?
Thx!
Information are easily available on URA website, both in terms of transaction volume as well as quantum and size.
So please analyze the information before making cheap remarks like this.
For a moment there, we thought you had abandoned your 'fans' here.
Isn't it very telling to all readers here that when called upon to back up your statements with substantive data, you rely on such 'mature' methods of rebuttal such as telling people to prove their statements instead or refer them to URA to check and draw their own conclusions.
Please do continue. You are doing an excellent job so far of growing your 'fan' base.
You are aware that I will always have the last word as you neither have the courage or intellect to counter me. This is proving to be very entertaining indeed. :D
Information are easily available on URA website, both in terms of transaction volume as well as quantum and size.
So please analyze the information before making cheap remarks like this.
C'mon Ringo, GPGT, NPNT. You are the master of copying & pasting the same charts. Why don't you back up your assertion this time with real, new/ fresh facts for readers here to analyse? The charts & income reports are stale and besides, actual current transactions that shows price weakness will indeed prove your point more than historical date and trying to predict the future with income reports vs price level of properties.
Since you have tred so hard to prove your point, wouldn't it be better to quote those recent transactions you noted and shut us up once and for all? You are strange right? Now that you have prove, you don't want to show ..... :doh:
C'mon Ringo, GPGT, NPNT. You are the master of copying & pasting the same charts. Why don't you back up your assertion this time with real, new/ fresh facts for readers here to analyse? The charts & income reports are stale and besides, actual current transactions that shows price weakness will indeed prove your point more than historical date and trying to predict the future with income reports vs price level of properties.
Since you have tred so hard to prove your point, wouldn't it be better to quote those recent transactions you noted and shut us up once and for all? You are strange right? Now that you have prove, you don't want to show ..... :doh:
If you wish to make your point, you should learn to dig up some hard facts to back up what you think instead of always expect others to spoon feed you with information. This will only make you look like an armchair critic who make alot of noise and no substance.
If you want facts, here are some for you to think about.
2012 District 10,11 and 12
Average psf of landed property sold : $1405psf
Average transaction per month : 29
2013 (Jan to Apr)
Average psf of landed property sold : $1273 psf
Average transaction per month : 19 (Jan to Mar)
I have not indicate in my statement that new citizens are all rich and dumb . Why do you interpret as such? On the contrary I did state land price will not crash, which indirectly imply the new purchases could be a good idea.
Please do not twist words R33. I am new here but I sense you are not really interested in discussion. In that case, just leave it as that. Throwing in spicy comments to make yourself look noble is in your own words.. Dumb.
You have clearly argue that current landed property price is sustainable because of influx of rich new citizen, which as you say will take care of demand.
Again, I would like to ask you, do you have facts to show that new citizens are rushing to buy landed property in Singapore? Or is that just an assumption?
You have clearly argue that current landed property price is sustainable because of influx of rich new citizen, which as you say will take care of demand.
Again, I would like to ask you, do you have facts to show that new citizens are rushing to buy landed property in Singapore? Or is that just an assumption?
As for affordability, with new citizens of a higher wealth bracket , they could very well cover the demand side ( especially when similar size condo cost far more in the same area for most cases) substainability is the question mark
R33, my exact words are as such above. I said affordability not substainability. If you choose not to read or worse do not know how to read , then don't try to rebuttal using phantom assumptions and ' I know it all' mentality. Also my earlier statement was directed at you terming new citizens ' rich and dumb'. First I did not state they are rich nor did I use the demeaning word dumb. I just state that they are of a higher wealth bracket which you and I know is the truth. You ask me prove it with stats. Sorry , I don't think you can prove how smart or dumb a person is.
Again R33, you decide to rebuttal base on assumptions and refusal to acknowledge what is written. I am not here for that purpose. Since this is a forum, information are meant to be shared with others and not you exclusively. So kindly ignore this if you have nothing better to say. ( which I guess you most probably would not and decide to pluck something from the air just for the sake of argument)
Anyways, I do hope you brush up your reading skills. If you can't do that , I am really doubting your ability to analyse.
__________________
"Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
By the way R33, I don't disagree with you on all points.
I do agree with you ( surprise surprise) on the above statement. As such this will be my last comment to you ( at least on this topic)
Well said iwanland, this Ringo guy is really stubborn fellow who has eaten plenty of sour grapes.
__________________
"Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
By the way R33, I don't disagree with you on all points.
I do agree with you ( surprise surprise) on the above statement. As such this will be my last comment to you ( at least on this topic)
Haha, Ringo....Ringo....Don't talk about rubbish crash using insubstantial data below. This data does not show that the property prices have crashed! You can do better than this....
2012 District 10,11 and 12
Average psf of landed property sold : $1405psf
Average transaction per month : 29
2013 (Jan to Apr)
Average psf of landed property sold : $1273 psf
Average transaction per month : 19 (Jan to Mar)
If you wish to make your point, you should learn to dig up some hard facts to back up what you think instead of always expect others to spoon feed you with information. This will only make you look like an armchair critic who make alot of noise and no substance.
If you want facts, here are some for you to think about.
2012 District 10,11 and 12
Average psf of landed property sold : $1405psf
Average transaction per month : 29
2013 (Jan to Apr)
Average psf of landed property sold : $1273 psf
Average transaction per month : 19 (Jan to Mar)
Finally, you bare your sources to show us how you arrived at your conclusion that only Landed will crash and not other segments. I waited and waited, enduring sleepless nights wondering "Does Ringo knows something that landed owners do not know? Is landed really going to crash and burn while only non-landed will survive?"
From the above....I can rest well :sleep: . Boys and girls, the show has ended. Ringo, you can go on and dream your dreams.
My take is the same, if landed crash, all segments will crash. And secondly, you are a mini Mr B who thinks prices will crash...in this case, Landed :D
Alright, I will now ignore your posts as I have concluded you are just another MTB who try to present baseless evidence to try to spook ppty investors.
Information are easily available on URA website, both in terms of transaction volume as well as quantum and size.
So please analyze the information before making cheap remarks like this.
Wow! For one moment.. I tot MR B is back :scared-5:
Cos your style is like MR B..
MR B used to talk BIG BIG saying from this source from that source.. So when ppl asked him to prove it.. TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION MR B tell them go search for themselves.. is everywhere :doh:
As at today, I finally know who is the 'real' FOOL :D
tons in strait times classified & propertyguru....go & ask for it, you will get, 10-20%...
I sold what I need to...only fools still keep now....in next 1-2 yrs, you will know....:)
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=12285
:cheers5:
Finally, you bare your sources to show us how you arrived at your conclusion that only Landed will crash and not other segments. I waited and waited, enduring sleepless nights wondering "Does Ringo knows something that landed owners do not know? Is landed really going to crash and burn while only non-landed will survive?"
From the above....I can rest well :sleep: . Boys and girls, the show has ended. Ringo, you can go on and dream your dreams.
By the way Jayki, the data for 2013 has 50% transacted for strata titled.Strip them off and the average price is about 1787
As for 2012, landed ex strata title ave price is at 1709. 33 % transacted for the period are strata titled.
So land price actually increase 4.5%.
I choose not to put strata alongside with landed as they belong to a different classification.
Again, critical details are ignored and for some reason choose not to be disclose.
:cheers5:
By the way Jayki, the data for 2013 has 50% transacted for strata titled.Strip them off and the average price is about 1787
As for 2012, landed ex strata title ave price is at 1709. 33 % transacted for the period are strata titled.
So land price actually increase 4.5%.
I choose not to put strata alongside with landed as they belong to a different classification.
Again, critical details are ignored and for some reason choose not to be disclose.
In this particular topic, I suppose we are referring to "Landed pty" (exclude those strata titled)... no?
In this particular topic, I suppose we are referring to "Landed pty" (exclude those strata titled)... no?
We are Rysk, except for selected few who like to pick and choose whatever they can to support their argument.
As for affordability, with new citizens of a higher wealth bracket , they could very well cover the demand side ( especially when similar size condo cost far more in the same area for most cases) substainability is the question mark
R33, my exact words are as such above. I said affordability not substainability. If you choose not to read or worse do not know how to read , then don't try to rebuttal using phantom assumptions and ' I know it all' mentality. Also my earlier statement was directed at you terming new citizens ' rich and dumb'. First I did not state they are rich nor did I use the demeaning word dumb. I just state that they are of a higher wealth bracket which you and I know is the truth. You ask me prove it with stats. Sorry , I don't think you can prove how smart or dumb a person is.
Again R33, you decide to rebuttal base on assumptions and refusal to acknowledge what is written. I am not here for that purpose. Since this is a forum, information are meant to be shared with others and not you exclusively. So kindly ignore this if you have nothing better to say. ( which I guess you most probably would not and decide to pluck something from the air just for the sake of argument)
Anyways, I do hope you brush up your reading skills. If you can't do that , I am really doubting your ability to analyse.
Please dont not divert this discussion into comparing the english meaning of affordability and sustainability. In order for any property market to be sustainable it will have to be affordable, or else it will risk becoming a bubble. Please do read up the explaination about asset bubble, it will help you to connect affordability and sustainability.
And like I said again, using rich new citizen buying landed property regardless of price level to support your case is just an assumption unless you have some numbers to show us.
Finally, you bare your sources to show us how you arrived at your conclusion that only Landed will crash and not other segments. I waited and waited, enduring sleepless nights wondering "Does Ringo knows something that landed owners do not know? Is landed really going to crash and burn while only non-landed will survive?"
From the above....I can rest well :sleep: . Boys and girls, the show has ended. Ringo, you can go on and dream your dreams.
My take is the same, if landed crash, all segments will crash. And secondly, you are a mini Mr B who thinks prices will crash...in this case, Landed :D
Alright, I will now ignore your posts as I have concluded you are just another MTB who try to present baseless evidence to try to spook ppty investors.
Please do not try to summarize what I have written in this thread when you dont even understand the true meaning of asset bubble.
The above transaction numbers are only just to show you sign of landed property market softening, and you are most welcome to dispute that will your own findings.
The more concerning point I have made in this thread is actually the price level of landed property vs household income.
And please do try to associate me with Mr. B because it doesnt prove anything. If you disagree with what I said, please make a case for yourself by giving us some numbers. Mr B doesnt mean anything in this thread.
Please dont not divert this discussion into comparing the english meaning of affordability and sustainability. In order for any property market to be sustainable it will have to be affordable, or else it will risk becoming a bubble. Please do read up the explaination about asset bubble, it will help you to connect affordability and sustainability.
And like I said again, using rich new citizen buying landed property regardless of price level to support your case is just an assumption unless you have some numbers to show us.
Can you please enlighten readers here what was your assumption when you started this thread below on restricting new citizens from buying landed and posted the statement below?
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16809&page=2
For wealthy new citizens holding on to Singapore citizenship, they can easily go back to their home country and live as an expat, while at the same time continue to use Singapore as a safe heaven to park their wealth and bring up their children through our school system.
Should we allow these new citizens to own multiple landed property while they are not even living in Singapore?
First TS says correction
Dont need to assume, the URA transaction volume of landed property are open information. Recently I am starting to see some sign of correction
Definition of market correction- http://www.investinganswers.com/financial-dictionary/stock-market/market-correction-2491
A market correction refers to a price decline of at least 10% of any security or market index (http://www.investinganswers.com/financial-dictionary/investing/market-index-1305) following a temporary upswing in market (http://www.investinganswers.com/financial-dictionary/economics/market-3609) prices
Now he says softening....
Please do not try to summarize what I have written in this thread when you dont even understand the true meaning of asset bubble.
The above transaction numbers are only just to show you sign of landed property market softening, and you are most welcome to dispute that will your own findings.
The more concerning point I have made in this thread is actually the price level of landed property vs household income.
And please do try to associate me with Mr. B because it doesnt prove anything. If you disagree with what I said, please make a case for yourself by giving us some numbers. Mr B doesnt mean anything in this thread.
Rysk, you are spot on !
Wow! For one moment.. I tot MR B is back :scared-5:
Cos your style is like MR B..
MR B used to talk BIG BIG saying from this source from that source.. So when ppl asked him to prove it..TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION MR B tell them go search for themselves.. is everywhere :doh:
As at today, I finally know who is the 'real' FOOL :D
:cheers5:
By the way Jayki, the data for 2013 has 50% transacted for strata titled.Strip them off and the average price is about 1787
As for 2012, landed ex strata title ave price is at 1709. 33 % transacted for the period are strata titled.
So land price actually increase 4.5%.
I choose not to put strata alongside with landed as they belong to a different classification.
Again, critical details are ignored and for some reason choose not to be disclose.
Another classic example of selective reading. and this just remind me of this video from 90.5FM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRR3gEHLH8M
When comparing landed property rental, people here like to use strata landed housing to justify yield. When comparing psf, they choose to ignore strata landed
4.5% appreciation? That is barely enough to even hedge against inflation.
Perhaps you could try to compare the price appreciation of 2011 to 2012 since you are at it.
Please dont not divert this discussion into comparing the english meaning of affordability and sustainability. In order for any property market to be sustainable it will have to be affordable, or else it will risk becoming a bubble. Please do read up the explaination about asset bubble, it will help you to connect affordability and sustainability.
And like I said again, using rich new citizen buying landed property regardless of price level to support your case is just an assumption unless you have some numbers to show us.
Still can't read. Sigh. Next please...
Still can't read. Sigh. Next please...
might want to consider a different forum.
might want to consider a different forum.
Not everyone runs to the type of forum you frequent to overcome your disappointment.
I was hoping for some sammyboy type of information. so disappointed
Another classic example of selective reading. and this just remind me of this video from 90.5FM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRR3gEHLH8M
When comparing landed property rental, people here like to use strata landed housing to justify yield. When comparing psf, they choose to ignore strata landed
4.5% appreciation? That is barely enough to even hedge against inflation.
Perhaps you could try to compare the price appreciation of 2011 to 2012 since you are at it.
Hilarious! Not too long ago, TS was trying to insinuate that strata cluster housing is akin to a condo.
So, when taking a swipe at cluster housing owners, its ok to differentiate but when faced with facts that he can't dispute, its not?
actually if you havent notice, even propertyguru doesnt classified cluster house under landed property. They actually put it as condo.
Another classic example of selective reading. and this just remind me of this video from 90.5FM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRR3gEHLH8M
When comparing landed property rental, people here like to use strata landed housing to justify yield. When comparing psf, they choose to ignore strata landed
4.5% appreciation? That is barely enough to even hedge against inflation.
Perhaps you could try to compare the price appreciation of 2011 to 2012 since you are at it.
I laugh when I see this. Selective reading indeed quoted from the Master of one. By the way strata titled is not the same as landed.Landed is price on psf of land. Strata is price on psf of buildup. ( I guess most already know that here with the exception of one) If using your logic, then land is indeed underprice as most buildup ( discounting GCB ) are higher than land psf stated in Ura. Thanks for unlocking this hidden gem!
By the way 4.5% increase does not equate to a decrease in price like what you earlier wrote. So great job on shooting your own foot and for being so willing to show us how you did it.
After reading past pages, i see we have a joker here. Hilarious. Don't stop, keep the jokes coming R, you are doing a good job.
4.5% appreciation? That is barely enough to even hedge against inflation.
Perhaps you could try to compare the price appreciation of 2011 to 2012 since you are at it.
Again sound very much like MR B to me.. Oh I mean TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION EXPERT MR B.. :D
Last time trying very hard to prove that "(S'pore) Pty price is coming down fast" by posting a few transaction at a loss to show ppl that the pty mkt is indeed crashing..
Worst still.. divert attention by posting US pty mtk..China pty mkt..HK..Greece..Spain..London.. all the bad news around the world.. till go MIA:doh:
...:D
wa wa wa....these few thread really keep the forum alive...:D
So,
1) OCR at 1300-1500psf affordable, or even higher now for some? If it is not afforable, then it will not be sustainable too...why just landed??
2) how can your household income keep up with your property? Your EC from 2008 - 2013 doubled or more, did your salary doubled?? So, condo market going to crash soon? not just landed right??
3) why u keep linking rental to landed? many here already say they mostly buy for own stay. Of course, there are ppl with different needs and they rented out even though the rate might not be good. So? how many of these actually depends on the rental? how many % of 70K + unit rented out?? 7%....so if rental crash, landed market also crash? So one day landed rental of a terrace (OCR) will be less than a 2bed room condo (OCR). right? wouldn't the market adjust it self as some might think it is more worthwhile to rent terrace now? The market will adjust itself as supply and demand changes....
Your nonsense still holds? :2cents:
Please dont not divert this discussion into comparing the english meaning of affordability and sustainability. In order for any property market to be sustainable it will have to be affordable, or else it will risk becoming a bubble. Please do read up the explaination about asset bubble, it will help you to connect affordability and sustainability.
And like I said again, using rich new citizen buying landed property regardless of price level to support your case is just an assumption unless you have some numbers to show us.
Even though the Stubborn Head TS just CANNOT MAKE IT..
But I just hope that he will stick on to his arguement.. so that we will have a new MR B to keep this forum alive..
Maybe I missed MR B too much.. :o
One of my colleagues is still waiting for property to crash. He says people buying now are crazy later interest rate go up all die. Bah bah bah etc.
btw he is 55yrs old. Another 10years if market crash but also can't buy because he will be 65yrs old. Bank not lending.
Btw people still wait for crash but how long will it come maybe 10 or 20 yrs nobody knows. If always think of crash then buy then no need to buy already because always scare of this and that u can never buy a property. It might not be even crash maybe correction only.
Every year of wait shorten your loan period.
Even though the Stubborn Head TS just CANNOT MAKE IT..
But I just hope that he will stick on to his arguement.. so that we will have a new MR B to keep this forum alive..
Maybe I missed MR B too much.. :o
Actually, if TS has his way, also good for some of us. I really want to buy some more. Onli if bank wants to lend me money. I love landed. I am thinking of buying a big plot and then artificially divide it into 2 parts. The main part of the house is me and my wife. The minor part with maybe a side gate or small parking area for my children. Next time they can stay with us and they have their own privacy/corners like kitchen. So price drop also good lah.
If price continues to go up, next time can sell mah. Both way also can lah.:D . Most important all the forumers huat. But, I dont think landed price will drop much lah.
I laugh when I see this. Selective reading indeed quoted from the Master of one. By the way strata titled is not the same as landed.Landed is price on psf of land. Strata is price on psf of buildup. ( I guess most already know that here with the exception of one) If using your logic, then land is indeed underprice as most buildup ( discounting GCB ) are higher than land psf stated in Ura. Thanks for unlocking this hidden gem!
By the way 4.5% increase does not equate to a decrease in price like what you earlier wrote. So great job on shooting your own foot and for being so willing to show us how you did it.
After reading past pages, i see we have a joker here. Hilarious. Don't stop, keep the jokes coming R, you are doing a good job.
Thank you very much for highlighting the difference in strata and landed. glad to learn something new today.
I have made a comparison on the transaction volume, land price and unit size from Jan 12 to Apr 13, here are some interest facts
* record low transaction volume in Mar 13
* record low average unit size of 2513sqft in Mar 13, which explain the high psf price of $1933 psf
* Lowest psf price in Apr 13 since Apr 12
Pretty obvious that the new CMs introduce in Jan 13 is starting to affect the landed property market. And perhaps, the market is also moving towards strata landed due to higher rental yield.
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6845/landedaverage.jpg
Thank you very much for highlighting the difference in strata and landed. glad to learn something new today.
I have made a comparison on the transaction volume, land price and unit size from Jan 12 to Apr 13, here are some interest facts
* record low transaction volume in Mar 13
* record low average unit size of 2513sqft in Mar 13, which explain the high psf price of $1933 psf
* Lowest psf price in Apr 13 since Apr 12
Pretty obvious that the new CMs introduce in Jan 13 is starting to affect the landed property market. And perhaps, the market is also moving towards strata landed due to higher rental yield.
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6845/landedaverage.jpg
Haha..as usual, witholding critical information.
You failed to mentioned that the highest psf price in D.11 over the past 12 mths was $2,669 psf achieved on 18 Apr 2013 and
The highest psf price in district 20 over the past 12 months was was $1,858 psf achieved on 22 Apr 2013
Does it look like market is tanking?
The chart above is only for D 10,11,12, and using average numbers are the most accurate for comparison instead of cherry picking 1 or 2 transactions to tell the world that everything is well.
The sharp drop in transaction volume is an important sign that investor needs to pay attention because it shows that buyers and sellers price expectation are no longer inline.
The chart above is only for D 10,11,12, and using average numbers are the most accurate for comparison instead of cherry picking 1 or 2 transactions to tell the world that everything is well.
The sharp drop in transaction volume is an important sign that investor needs to pay attention because it shows that buyers and sellers price expectation are no longer inline.
Again withholding critical information. Transaction volume for all segments fell after the CM. Care to share the data for non landed segments too?
Thank you very much for highlighting the difference in strata and landed. glad to learn something new today.
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6845/landedaverage.jpg
I am impress you actually acknowledge that you do not know the difference. So I guess all you assumptions are wrongly deduced. Gish what a revelation !
I am impress you actually acknowledge that you do not know the difference. So I guess all you assumptions are wrongly deduced. Gish what a revelation !
I have removed strata landed transaction before plotting the chart. It still show the same trend. average price of landed in Apr is down. lowest since sep 2012.
I have removed strata landed transaction before plotting the chart. It still show the same trend. average price of landed in Apr is down. lowest since sep 2012.
The transaction volume of all segments of property fell with imposition of the CM.
Since you are saying that landed will crash and non-landed will not, could you explain how your data proves your point if you do not have corresponding data on non-landed for comparison?
Just heard that one of my relative, who have been thinking of buying a landed property in Singapore, has just bought a 3500sqft FH semi d in iskandar as retirement home.
I think he has made the right decision because the potential upside for landed property in Iskandar will be much better than Singapore.
Plus with all the new MAS regulation on tax evasion, I believe many rich foreigners will be thinking of parking the fund else where.
So if you are thinking of buying landed property in Singapore. it might be better to wait because storm is coming.
Just heard that one of my relative, who have been thinking of buying a landed property in Singapore, has just bought a 3500sqft FH semi d in iskandar as retirement home.
I think he has made the right decision because the potential upside for landed property in Iskandar will be much better than Singapore.
So why don't you join your relative and buy a house there? Hmmm, didn't you advise someone in this forum NOT to buy a house in Malaysia. You mean you didn't share your 'pearl of wisdom' with your relative?
I said to buy a Msian property to live in using income from renting out a PC in Sg.....if rental is SGD4K this will be $10K RM..... enough to pay off $2M + RM loan.....of course you do not neck get a RM$2M + property, RM$1M can get you a decent Demi-D Cluster....over 3500Sqft built-up.
To buy a Malaysia property, you will need to put in sizable down payment as interest rate in MY is a lot higher than in Singapore. So it will not be worth while if one need to take up 70% loan for a Malaysia property.
I believe that rental market for Malaysia property is pretty lousy bad, so it might make more sense to actually park your money in another Singapore property and then use your rental to pay for your rent in Malaysia.
Advantage is that you are mobile and you can choose to return to Singapore anytime you want without having to worry about mortgage payment for your Malaysia property.
Plus with all the new MAS regulation on tax evasion, I believe many rich foreigners will be thinking of parking the fund else where.
So if you are thinking of buying landed property in Singapore. it might be better to wait because storm is coming
Oh dear, someone doesn't know that rich FOREIGNERS cannot buy landed in SG unless they obtain approval. Looks like all the high end and luxury condos and apts are going to face the 'storm' instead. On the hand, rich NEW Citizens can buy landed...:cheers4:
Sentosa Cove transaction has already slow to a halt and it has been awhile since we have heard of rich chinese buying up landed property in Sentosa with bag of cash.
If you have been following the news, many analysts have also projected that luxury home price is coming down.
So if you think that landed property is still invincible, then good luck with your money.
On side note, its funny that condo investors in this forum could openly discuss about condo being sold at lost and not disputing that large quantum condo prices are on the decline, but for landed property owner (I wont even call them as investor), they just find it hard to accept the fact that landed property price has already peaked.
Sentosa Cove transaction has already slow to a halt and it has been awhile since we have heard of rich chinese buying up landed property in Sentosa with bag of cash.
If you have been following the news, many analysts have also projected that luxury home price is coming down.
So if you think that landed property is still invincible, then good luck with your money.
On side note, its funny that condo investors in this forum could openly discuss about condo being sold at lost and not disputing that large quantum condo prices are on the decline, but for landed property owner (I wont even call them as investor), they just find it hard to accept the fact that landed property price has already peaked.
Haha...bring up Sentosa cove because those are the only landed properties where FOREIGNERS can get fast track approval to buy.
Oh btw, guess who is predicting a global recession is going to happen between 2014 and 2015? Let's monitor this closely, shall we?
I am guessing that the announcement for next IR will happen during the next global recession. And this could possibly happen between 2014 and 2015, round the same time when the 10 years exclusive gaming license is expiring
I think your comments cover condo in Iskandar as well....ask your relative to buy 3 condo instead of one landed, that would be wiser ... Landed no yield one, some more in JB, get condo don't be silly...Don't buy in Sin, OCR getting to 1500psf as norm soon, how to be sustainable?? Average Household income of 16k how to afford a average 2mil condo....condo storm coming....:scared-5:
Just heard that one of my relative, who have been thinking of buying a landed property in Singapore, has just bought a 3500sqft FH semi d in iskandar as retirement home.
I think he has made the right decision because the potential upside for landed property in Iskandar will be much better than Singapore.
Plus with all the new MAS regulation on tax evasion, I believe many rich foreigners will be thinking of parking the fund else where.
So if you are thinking of buying landed property in Singapore. it might be better to wait because storm is coming.
I think your comments cover condo in Iskandar as well....ask your relative to buy 3 condo instead of one landed, that would be wiser ... Landed no yield one, some more in JB, get condo don't be silly...Don't buy in Sin, OCR getting to 1500psf as norm soon, how to be sustainable?? Average Household income of 16k how to afford a average 2mil condo....condo storm coming....:scared-5:
he is buying retirement home, not interest about yield.
he is buying retirement home, not interest about yield.
If 95% owner for landed not interested about yield.. Meaning the 5% who bought higher during the last 2-yr dun even bother it?? :scared-4:
Storm is coming.
Jalan Sejarah Detached 7,352sqft
Bought : 2011-05-23 $1,741psf $12.8m
Sold : 2013-05-06 $1,904psf $14.0m
Less than 2 years, 12% SSD = $1.68m + stamp duty $378.6K + 1% agent commission $140K
Total : $2.20m
Lost : ($1,000,000)
Wilkinson Road Semi-Detached 3,455sqft
Bought 2010-11-29 $767psf $2.65m
Sold 2013-05-03 $839psf $2.9m
SSD $30.8k + stamp duty $74.1K + 1% commission $29K
total $133.9K
Profit : $120k or 2% per year.
Storm is coming.
Jalan Sejarah Detached 7,352sqft
Bought : 2011-05-23 $1,741psf $12.8m
Sold : 2013-05-06 $1,904psf $14.0m
Less than 2 years, 12% SSD = $1.68m + stamp duty $378.6K + 1% agent commission $140K
Total : $2.20m
Lost : ($1,000,000)
Wilkinson Road Semi-Detached 3,455sqft
Bought 2010-11-29 $767psf $2.65m
Sold 2013-05-03 $839psf $2.9m
SSD $30.8k + stamp duty $74.1K + 1% commission $29K
total $133.9K
Profit : $120k or 2% per year.
Price went up from $1,714psf to $1,904psf means storm is coming ?
Make profit of $120K means storm is coming?
Maybe you can also explain to readers here why you think we are headed for a global recession in 2014/15?
I am guessing that the announcement for next IR will happen during the next global recession. And this could possibly happen between 2014 and 2015, round the same time when the 10 years exclusive gaming license is expiring
Storm is coming.
Jalan Sejarah Detached 7,352sqft
Bought : 2011-05-23 $1,741psf $12.8m
Sold : 2013-05-06 $1,904psf $14.0m
Less than 2 years, 12% SSD = $1.68m + stamp duty $378.6K + 1% agent commission $140K
Total : $2.20m
Lost : ($1,000,000)
Wow!! Like that also can "twist".. No wonder you are being called "TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION EXPERT" :doh: :banghead: :not-worthy:
You win lor :D
Since you are good in numbers & only believe in fact & figure.
I'll show you "storm is coming" numbers from URA :cheers5:
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-24a1.pdf
Wow!! Like that also can "twist".. No wonder you are being called "TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION EXPERT" :doh: :banghead: :not-worthy:
You win lor :D
Since you are good in numbers & only believe in fact & figure.
I'll show you "storm is coming" numbers from URA :cheers5:
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-24a1.pdf
Don't just post the link without telling us what you are trying to say leh. What are you trying to tell us?
Don't just post the link without telling us what you are trying to say leh. What are you trying to tell us?
Better than people who say a global recession is coming between 2014 & 2015 without any explanation at all.
Rysk, looks like you are spot on about him resembling another infamous poster in this forum.
I am guessing that the announcement for next IR will happen*during the next global recession. And this could possibly happen between 2014 and 2015,*round the same time when the 10 years exclusive gaming license is expiring
From this
"A global recession could possibly happen between 2014-2015"
it has now been twisted to become
"a global recession is coming between 2014 & 2015"
someone must be very desperate.
From this
"A global recession could possibly happen between 2014-2015"
it has now been twisted to become
"a global recession is coming between 2014 & 2015"
someone must be very desperate.
so please enlighten all readers here why a global recession could possibly happen between 2014 and 2015. Practise what you preach and provide supporting facts and numbers to back your claim.
Storm is coming.
Jalan Sejarah Detached 7,352sqft
Bought : 2011-05-23 $1,741psf $12.8m
Sold : 2013-05-06 $1,904psf $14.0m
Bro, price went up 9.4% over 2 years despite the latest cooling measure.
Haha, Ringo....Ringo.....Why pick one or two transactions and then claimed "Land storm is coming"? Did you fail your statistics in schools? :banghead:
Storm is coming.
Jalan Sejarah Detached 7,352sqft
Bought : 2011-05-23 $1,741psf $12.8m
Sold : 2013-05-06 $1,904psf $14.0m
Less than 2 years, 12% SSD = $1.68m + stamp duty $378.6K + 1% agent commission $140K
Total : $2.20m
Lost : ($1,000,000)
http://www.cracked.com/article_20318_the-5-most-popular-ways-statistics-are-used-to-lie-to-you.html
Statistics don't lie, but people do use statistics to lie. Statistics is simply a tool like a knife is a tool it can be used for good or evil. The user determines which. When in service to the truth, statistics are for the good. When in service to a lie, the evil of deception ensues.
http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2012/02/when-statistics-lie.html
“There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.”
― Benjamin Disraeli
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/lies
“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”
― Adolf Hitler
From this
"A global recession could possibly happen between 2014-2015"
it has now been twisted to become
"a global recession is coming between 2014 & 2015"
someone must be very desperate.
From this?? From what leh???
Till now I still dun know from what that global recession could happen between 2014-2015.. "TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION MR :D "
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Storm is coming.
:doh: :doh: :doh:
Storm is coming.
Jalan Sejarah Detached 7,352sqft
Bought : 2011-05-23 $1,741psf $12.8m
Sold : 2013-05-06 $1,904psf $14.0m
Less than 2 years, 12% SSD = $1.68m + stamp duty $378.6K + 1% agent commission $140K
Total : $2.20m
Lost : ($1,000,000)
So this single transaction is what you called "Land Storm is Coming"!! :doh:
Anyway, this is not new.. cos MR B had used the same tactics before.. :D
I think not only that you are awarded as "TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION EXPERT"... soon you'll be awarded as "YOUNG KOK cum INEXPERIENCE"......... :D
Even MR B & MR SMARIAN.. both will salute to you.. :not-worthy: :not-worthy:
As I have said before, landed property sector always like to take cue from what detached housing property are doing. Its obvious from the URA housing data that detach housing price has peaked, transaction is harder to come by, and now we are starting to see transaction losing money.
This is in total opposite of all the bull stories that have been reverberating in this forum.
Anyone thinking of buying landed property should reconsider or only buy if you can find a really good firesale.
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7669/uraq113.png
Wow!! Like that also can "twist".. No wonder you are being called "TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION EXPERT" :doh: :banghead: :not-worthy:
You win lor :D
Since you are good in numbers & only believe in fact & figure.
I'll show you "storm is coming" numbers from URA :cheers5:
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-24a1.pdf
RYSK, what exactly are you trying to tell us from the URA pdf file?
As I have said before, landed property sector always like to take cue from what detached housing property are doing. Its obvious from the URA housing data that detach housing price has peaked, transaction is harder to come by, and now we are starting to see transaction losing money.
Storm is coming.
Jalan Sejarah Detached 7,352sqft
Bought : 2011-05-23 $1,741psf $12.8m
Sold : 2013-05-06 $1,904psf $14.0m
Less than 2 years, 12% SSD = $1.68m + stamp duty $378.6K + 1% agent commission $140K
Total : $2.20m
Lost : ($1,000,000)
Lost? Yep, certainly describes you.
($1,000,000)? Are you sure?
Do you know that there are housing developers specialising in landed, especially detached houses. Quite a few were buying up detached in the past few years for re-sell. Looks like you are not even aware that housing developers don't need to pay SSD which means your 12% SSD or $1.68m may not be valid.
So looks like you don't have any more transactions to support your 'transaction losing money' point not that it even supported your premise in the first place. Look at the how hard it is to sell a CCR condo as well as the number of loss making transactions for CCR condos. Does it mean condo storm is coming?
Can u explain what do you mean.." now we are starting to see transaction losing money" :cool:;)
..... Its obvious from the URA housing data that detach housing price has peaked, transaction is harder to come by, and now we are starting to see transaction losing money.
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7669/uraq113.png
Can u explain what do you mean.." now we are starting to see transaction losing money" :cool:;)
No, you should first explain to us what are you trying to tell us with this link that you posted.
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-24a1.pdf
Which part of the english do you not understand?
No, you should first explain to us what are you trying to tell us with this link that you posted.
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-24a1.pdf
Which part of the english do you not understand?
Just let u see URA data.. Between Q4 2012 & Q1 2013.. Nothing to explain.. The numbers will explain itself.. Unless you dun understand a simply URA data
So can u explain about what you said.."now we are starting to see transactions losing money"??
Just let u see URA data.. Between Q4 2012 & Q1 2013.. Nothing to explain.. The numbers will explain itself.. Unless you dun understand a simply URA data
So can u explain about what you said.."now we are starting to see transactions losing money"??
Sometimes the data is so on your face that you dont even realized that you have seen them so many time before. Are you not aware that the chart which I have been posting on this thread are from also from URA, reflecting the same data which you are trying to show.
So what exactly are you trying to tell us with those set of data? Cant be just posting numbers without explanation?
Oh yes, I am suggesting that now we are seeing landed property selling at loss.
not likely to have any crash just a gradual decrease
condo also got ppl sell at a loss ma...so what is that? Condo storm crashing down??
:doh:
Sometimes the data is so on your face that you dont even realized that you have seen them so many time before. Are you not aware that the chart which I have been posting on this thread are from also from URA, reflecting the same data which you are trying to show.
So what exactly are you trying to tell us with those set of data? Cant be just posting numbers without explanation?
Oh yes, I am suggesting that now we are seeing landed property selling at loss.
Sometimes the data is so on your face that you dont even realized that you have seen them so many time before. Are you not aware that the chart which I have been posting on this thread are from also from URA, reflecting the same data which you are trying to show.
So what exactly are you trying to tell us with those set of data? Cant be just posting numbers without explanation?
Oh yes, I am suggesting that now we are seeing landed property selling at loss.
So from that ura data.. Q1 2013 is the highest price index..
With that, can u explain what do u mean by "now we are seeing landed property selling at loss"... I'm sure u have some data to back up before u said so.. Can u show us all??
Don't believe in his words. Nothing is substantial, just plenty of bullshit.
You just need to treat his postings as a form of entertainment. Nothing else.
So from that ura data.. Q1 2013 is the highest price index..
With that, can u explain what do u mean by "now we are seeing landed property selling at loss"... I'm sure u have some data to back up before u said so.. Can u show us all??
Don't believe in his words. Nothing is substantial, just plenty of bullshit.
You just need to treat his postings as a form of entertainment. Nothing else.
I have never been serious over this thread.. Just find it entertaining.. But I'm still waiting & waiting & waiting for TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION EXPERT R33 to prove his finding with regards to what he had suggested "now we are seeing landed property selling at a loss" with facts & figures etc
So from that ura data.. Q1 2013 is the highest price index..
With that, can u explain what do u mean by "now we are seeing landed property selling at loss"... I'm sure u have some data to back up before u said so.. Can u show us all??
You sure you are not lying? From this pdf file which you have posted to show me, how can you tell Q12013 is the highest price index??
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-24a1.pdf
Do you not understand the english meaning what I say? "now we are seeing landed property selling at loss"
Wilkinson Road Semi-Detached 3,455sqft 839
Bought 2010-11-29 $2.65m
Sold 2013-05-03 $2.90m
SSD $27.2K + stamp duty $74,100 + 1% agent commission $29K
total $130.3K
Profit $120k. Return 2% per year?
This is provided seller didnt spend money on intensive renovation.
Wilkinson Road Semi-Detached 3,455sqft 839
Bought 2010-11-29 $2.65m
Sold 2013-05-03 $2.90m
SSD $27.2K + stamp duty $74,100 + 1% agent commission $29K
total $130.3K
Profit $120k. Return 2% per year?
This is provided seller didnt spend money on intensive renovation.
Profit $120K = now we seeing landed property selling at a loss? :tsk-tsk:
Profit $120K = now we seeing landed property selling at a loss? :tsk-tsk:
Scroll back and stop quoting out of context or ask sily question. This is extremely childish.
2% return per year is pathetic,in fact I would consider loss after factoring in inflation and other cost related to property.
So much for all that big talk about capital appreciation
ppl could have better use of the money, so one off case also being used by your silly deduction?
Condo transaction no loss?? So crashing down?? before u proceed further can you comment on this?
Scroll back and stop quoting out of context or ask sily question. This is extremely childish.
2% return per year is pathetic,in fact I would consider loss after factoring in inflation and other cost related to property.
So much for all that big talk about capital appreciation
ppl could have better use of the money, so one off case also being used by your silly deduction?
Condo transaction no loss?? So crashing down?? before u proceed further can you comment on this?
I don't think these are one off transactions and i am expecting to see more coming.
Its good that you have progressed, from state of denial to state acceptance that landed price is coming down.
hahaha...very funny....:doh:
i say u silly, u say i concur...and u avoid answer my questions....well done ringo33, even the blind can feel whats going on.
I don't think these are one off transactions and i am expecting to see more coming.
Its good that you have progressed, from state of denial to state acceptance that landed price is coming down.
i think enough....damn silly...:doh: let u talk yourselves la...
Please help to monitor landed property transaction in the coming weeks, espeacially those who have access to transaction details. what looks like a one off now could very quickly become a trend.
How many of us know that URA index is weighted moving average?
and if we know, do we know what it means.
what is the implication of moving average?
eg 1
real q1: 5
real q2: 10
real q3: 15
real q4: 20
simple moving average (SMA) for past 2 qtrs
SMA q2: 7.5
SMA q3: 12.5
SMA q4: 17.5
eg 2
real q1: 5
real q2: 10
real q3: 15
real q4: 15
simple moving average for past 2 qtrs
SMA q2: 7.5
SMA q3: 12.5
SMA q4: 15
eg 3
real q1: 5
real q2: 10
real q3: 15
real q4: 12
simple moving average for past 2 qtrs
SMA q2: 7.5
SMA q3: 12.5
SMA q4: 13.5
eg 4
real q1: 5
real q2: 10
real q3: 15
real q4: 10
simple moving average for past 2 qtrs
SMA q2: 7.5
SMA q3: 12.5
SMA q4: 12.5
eg 5
real q1: 5
real q2: 10
real q3: 15
real q4: 8
simple moving average for past 2 qtrs
SMA q2: 7.5
SMA q3: 12.5
SMA q4: 11.5
implications
eg1. real q4 is more than q3 , SMA index is rising
eg2. real q4 is same as q3, SMA index is still rising
eg3. real q4 is a little lower than q3, SMA index is still rising
eg4. real q4 is much lower than q3, SMA index is only FLAT.
eg5. real q4 is much much lower than q3, than SMA index will fall.
I used the extreme figures of rise and fall as illustration.
if seen from URA chart, it looks like it is flat for the last quarter.
The actual transactions are probably lower than previous quarters. However due to the weighted moving average nature of URA, the URA index reflects that flat only.
some links:
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/newscontent/news/2013/ST_4Apr13%28pgA2%29.pdf
i think you can check the URA website to find out the actual formula used.
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/text/pr00-13.html
they used something called The Laspeyres method.
so statisticians wanna be, once you know the weights etc, you can determine whether the actual transactions for that quarter is rising, stagnant, or falling from the URA index slope inclination.
Another interesting transaction
Huddington AvenueTerrace 2,960 sq ft
Bought 2012-10-18 $1065psf $3.15m
Sold 2013-05-02 $1534psf $4.54m
Profit : $1.39m within 7 months? dont get so excited first.
I suspect this unit could be No. 27 Huddington Ave, a corner terrace which was rebuild with basement, attic and swimming pool etc.
http://maps.google.com/?ll=1.36718,103.865631&spn=0.002218,0.003074&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=1.367181,103.865631&panoid=bMZ8cKdRDG5ppKFOqaHeAw&cbp=12,201.4,,0,7.66
Wonder if seller make any money from this project?
Wilkinson Road Semi-Detached 3,455sqft 839
Bought 2010-11-29 $2.65m
Sold 2013-05-03 $2.90m
SSD $27.2K + stamp duty $74,100 + 1% agent commission $29K
total $130.3K
Profit $120k. Return 2% per year?
This is provided seller didnt spend money on intensive renovation.
Are you assuming owner pays full in CASH?
If he only pays 30% Cash ( 0.8 M )70 % loan, he would made a return of 15 % or 7.5 % per year.
(In case you need numbers to prove, 120 K / 800 K = 15 %)
Sounds like a good investment to me. :)
I don't think the majority buy house with 100% cash. If you do, good for you.
By the way, when price increase even by a mere 2%, it is in no way a crash.
Preschool maths 1+1=2 , not -2
I am no maths whiz, but your logic is way off R33. Try harder...
Do you not understand the english meaning what I say? "now we are seeing landed property selling at loss"
You hosei boh!
How to see? I tot you always base on fact & figure or even chart?
Without these you can see kok hah??
But anyway, I still waiting & waiting & waiting.. to see something from you to prove your sentence..
Please help to monitor landed property transaction in the coming weeks, espeacially those who have access to transaction details. what looks like a one off now could very quickly become a trend.
Don't be kok lah..
Even condo every now & then got transaction at a loss.. but never see you post "Non-Landed Storm is Coming"
3-4 years ago landed pty oso got transaction at a loss.. but never see you post "Landed Storm is Coming".. You are now a TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION EXPERT.. so please don't make ppl add you as YOUNG KOK cum INEXPERIENCE R33 lah :doh:
Are you assuming owner pays full in CASH?
If he only pays 30% Cash ( 0.8 M )70 % loan, he would made a return of 15 % or 7.5 % per year.
(In case you need numbers to prove, 120 K / 800 K = 15 %)
Sounds like a good investment to me. :)
I don't think the majority buy house with 100% cash. If you do, good for you.
By the way, when price increase even by a mere 2%, it is in no way a crash.
Preschool maths 1+1=2 , not -2
I am no maths whiz, but your logic is way off R33. Try harder...
The smoke screen you are trying to create here is actually what we call Return of Equity. However without knowing what is the exact equity of individual investment, it will actually be pointless to speculate or talk about ROE, hence the reason why people seldom talk about ROE in this forum.
ROE might sound attractive only if you assume that the cost of fund is zero, which actually is not the case because companies do borrow money, and as individual if you put the money into your CPF OA account, you will be making 2.5% return every year and there is no need for any headache of going to lawyer office or engaging agent and contractor etc etc.
I am glad that you are starting to lower down your expectation for landed property. Technically you are correct that 2% per year capital gain (excluding all other related expenses) is still a profit, but from investor point of view, that is actually a very lousy investment that is not worth considering unless the property offers very high rental yield. which I doubt so because its a landed property.
You hosei boh!
How to see? I tot you always base on fact & figure or even chart?
Without these you can see kok hah??
But anyway, I still waiting & waiting & waiting.. to see something from you to prove your sentence..
were you lying about the data? You didnt quite know how to read what you post right? And that is why you simply say that Q12013 price is highest when we obviously know that there is no way you would have know that just by looking at this table that you posted. http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-24a1.pdf
No offense, but if I show a 5 year old kid the same chart, he can also tell me that Q12013 is the highest.
To seek the truth, one would need to look back and prevent one's gullible mind to be corrupted by peers' influence. With a calm and pure mind, you will be able to see the answer. focus!!
were you lying about the data? You didnt quite know how to read what you post right? And that is why you simply say that Q12013 price is highest when we obviously know that there is no way you would have know that just by looking at this table that you posted. http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-24a1.pdf
No offense, but if I show a 5 year old kid the same chart, he can also tell me that Q12013 is the highest.
To seek the truth, one would need to look back and prevent one's gullible mind to be corrupted by peers' influence. With a calm and pure mind, you will be able to see the answer. focus!!
Helo TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION R33..
You are the URA data & chart expert.. So dun come & act blur..
Come on.. Prove it.. what you mean by "now we are seeing landed property selling at loss"..
Think I almost can confirm you just plucked the sky liao.. :D
Helo TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION R33..
Dun act blur.. Come on.. Prove it.. what you mean by "now we are seeing landed property selling at loss"..
Think I almost can confirm you just plucked the sky liao.. :D
Were you lying about the data?
To seek the truth, one would need to look back and prevent one's gullible mind to be corrupted by peers' influence. With a calm and pure mind, you will be able to see the answer. focus!!
Were you lying about the data?
To seek the truth, one would need to look back and prevent one's gullible mind to be corrupted by peers' influence. With a calm and pure mind, you will be able to see the answer. focus!!
You mean URA's data is not truth??
Come on.. I tried my best even with a calm and pure mind & stay focus..
Without prove.. I still can't see what you mean by "now we are seeing landed property selling at loss"
So prove it to me :D
You mean URA's data is not truth??
Come on.. Prove it.. what do you mean by "now we are seeing landed property selling at loss" :D
by simply quoting URA is no use unless you know how to use those information. So for your case, you quoted the link from URA, like you are trying to tell us something. I am just curious what is that something you want to tell us. Then you said that Q12013 price is highest. Then I am asking how are you able to tell its highest just by look at the table you posted. So were you lying?
As for landed property selling at loss, you might want to ask around, I am sure forummers here will be able to point you towards that information.
As for landed property selling at loss, you might want to ask around, I am sure forummers here will be able to point you towards that information.
Oh!! So finally you confess that you have no prove (as I already know it:D ).. And base on asking forummers around only.. And so you decide to post "Land Storm is Coming"??
I'm just curious who you asked.. can you name a few of them or show me their post??
The smoke screen you are trying to create here is actually what we call Return of Equity.
. Technically you are correct that 2% per year capital gain (excluding all other related expenses) is still a profit, but from investor point of view, that is actually a very lousy investment that is not worth considering unless the property offers very high rental yield. which I doubt so because its a landed property.
Ringo, no smoke screen, I lay my cards straight. I think you are the one with the smoke grenades.
By the way I am pointing out that 2% is a gain and I am glad you realise it is technically correct. But I guess in your realistic world a 2 % gain would mean a loss. :doh: Where in the world a gain would reflect " landed property selling at a loss" ? Your statements confuses me, or perhaps you are just disllusional.
Regardless it is really pointless to educate you on the meaning of gain, loss or crash. As far as I can tell you equate making profits to a loss using assumptions only understood by yourself.
At the end of the day, you are still providing me free entertainment, so for that I give you props.
proud owner
20-05-13, 13:37
Are you assuming owner pays full in CASH?
If he only pays 30% Cash ( 0.8 M )70 % loan, he would made a return of 15 % or 7.5 % per year.
(In case you need numbers to prove, 120 K / 800 K = 15 %)
Sounds like a good investment to me. :)
I don't think the majority buy house with 100% cash. If you do, good for you.
By the way, when price increase even by a mere 2%, it is in no way a crash.
Preschool maths 1+1=2 , not -2
I am no maths whiz, but your logic is way off R33. Try harder...
just curious ... bought and sold within 3 years ... if its the same unit ... owner sure kana SSD ... building that SSD into the equation ... I don't think theres any profit ...
just curious ... bought and sold within 3 years ... if its the same unit ... owner sure kana SSD ... building that SSD into the equation ... I don't think theres any profit ...
Bought before jan 2011, so ssd is 1/3 buyer stamp duty which r33 had already included in his calculation.
Still a profit lah..
Ringo, no smoke screen, I lay my cards straight. I think you are the one with the smoke grenades.
By the way I am pointing out that 2% is a gain and I am glad you realise it is technically correct. But I guess in your realistic world a 2 % gain would mean a loss. :doh: Where in the world a gain would reflect " landed property selling at a loss" ? Your statements confuses me, or perhaps you are just disllusional.
Regardless it is really pointless to educate you on the meaning of gain, loss or crash. As far as I can tell you equate making profits to a loss using assumptions only understood by yourself.
At the end of the day, you are still providing me free entertainment, so for that I give you props.
before you get all excited and bubbly, I just wish to let you know that there has been a trend of people in this forum who like to quote a discussion out of context, twist the fact and then use it as an argument. Which IMO is a sign of desperation.
In your case, perhaps you should look back and ask yourself if ringo33 has actually say that the this particular transaction, (which ringo33 has posted himself) the seller is making a loss? Or was it something that was fabricated by yourself just to make yourself look smart.
Do mean that Ringo33 could calculate the SSD, stamp duty and agent commission but he cannot tell the different between 120K profit or loss?
Again, sorry to bust your smoke screen again.
Wilkinson Road Semi-Detached 3,455sqft 839
Bought 2010-11-29 $2.65m
Sold 2013-05-03 $2.90m
SSD $27.2K + stamp duty $74,100 + 1% agent commission $29K
total $130.3K
Profit $120k. Return 2% per year?
This is provided seller didnt spend money on intensive renovation.
before you get all excited and bubbly, I just wish to let you know that there has been a trend of people in this forum who like to quote a discussion out of context, twist the fact and then use it as an argument. Which IMO is a sign of desperation.
In your case, perhaps you should look back and ask yourself if ringo33 has actually say that the this particular transaction, (which ringo33 has posted himself) the seller is making a loss? Or was it something that was fabricated by yourself just to make yourself look smart.
Do mean that Ringo33 could calculate the SSD, stamp duty and agent commission but he cannot tell the different between 120K profit or loss?
Again, sorry to bust your smoke screen again.
No twisting or argument here. just quoting you directly.
Scroll back and stop quoting out of context or ask sily question. This is extremely childish.
2% return per year is pathetic,in fact I would consider loss after factoring in inflation and other cost related to property.
So much for all that big talk about capital appreciation
proper-T, how many user accounts do you have in this forum, how come keep using different username to reply my post? very confusing leh
Are you trying to divert attention again. I can assure you that I am not iwantland. Let's not talk about proper-t and get back to the topic at hand. You challenged people to look back. I looked back and found the post. Did you write the sentence I quoted above or not?
Are you trying to divert attention again. I can assure you that I am not iwantland. Let's not talk about proper-t and get back to the topic at hand. You challenged people to look back. I looked back and found the post. Did you write the sentence I quoted above or not?
No diverting, because I noticed there are many user here taking turns to reply my post leh. Perhaps not iwantland. but do you have other account in this forum?
So you now you are diverting your attention into argument about English.
Ok, do you not noticed those words written in RED?
What was the average inflation for the past 3 years? Was it above 2%?
Also what about bank borrowing cost and cost of money?
2% return per year is pathetic,in fact I would consider loss after factoring in inflation and other cost related to property.
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