View Full Version : Home prices moving the right way: Tharman
http://www.straitstimes.com/premium/top-the-news/story/home-prices-moving-the-right-way-tharman-20130419
Home prices moving the right way: Tharman
Government has no plans for another round of cooling measures for now
Published on Apr 19, 2013
By Robin Chan
PROPERTY prices remain high but they are moving in the right direction, said Deputy Prime Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam, adding that the Government has no plans for another round of cooling measures for now.
The Government is determined to lower the prices of homes relative to incomes, he added, but does not want to cause a crash in the short term.
"We're not planning another round of measures, but it depends on market conditions," said Mr Tharman, who is also Finance Minister and chairman of the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS).
"We're determined to achieve our objective of having prices come down relative to incomes. And that can be achieved both through income growth as well as some stabilisation or even cooling of prices, he said.
His comments came amid speculation that more cooling measures could follow the seventh and toughest round in January.
Mr Tharman was replying to a question on how the Government can manage inflation in a wide-ranging video interview with The Straits Times last week.
The question had picked up the third most number of votes from readers in an online poll on The Straits Times' current affairs website Singapolitics carried out over seven days. The videos are available at Singapolitics.sg
Mr Tharman, who also gave insights into the tax system, the economy and politics, and shared his vision of society in the future, said he believes "there is bound to be some softening in prices" as more new homes come into the market over the next two years.
But he did not completely shut the door to more measures.
The Government has a range of tools to stabilise the market, and can also tighten the criteria for banks giving loans, though it does not directly control the mortgage spreads, he said.
"Whether we do anything more on the MAS front, on the fiscal front, or on supply measures depends on market conditions. We don't rule out any measure," he said.
The Government has rolled out seven rounds of measures to bring under control a rising property market fuelled by a long period of extraordinarily low interest rates and pent-up demand.
It has also delinked the prices of Build-To-Order flats from the resale market, and rolled out 70,000 new flats since 2011.
Mr Tharman's comments will temper speculation that an eighth round of measures is already in the works.
New private home sales surged to an all-time high last month, though analysts believe the momentum will not continue as the tough measures kick in.
Mr Donald Han, special adviser at HSR Property Consultants, said: "This will help reassure the market that the Government is working to find a level of sustainable prices in the long term, but will not bring it down with a sledgehammer."
In the longer term, Mr Tharman said, he favours a more steady growth of property prices and the ratio of prices to incomes being "somewhat lower" for "the average family... including those who are in the upper middle income group and go for private condominiums".
The Government has not decided what level it wants to reduce that ratio to, however, and the change will be through an "evolution" rather than any sharp correction.
Speaking more broadly about inflation concerns, DPM Tharman said that excluding housing and cars, "regular inflation" - costs for basic items, education and health-care needs - is "getting under control".
[email protected]
Since prices look like they are levelling and if we are heading in the right direction, it means income is looking up in the forseeable future. That is good news then.
TravieJackie
20-04-13, 12:28
To calm panic buying?
If Tharman increases GST further and continue his current policies to increase his so-called comsumption tax and tax on wealth by increasing property tax instead of taxing income and estate duty! Would any middle/upper middle income man with little intelligent level but at least higher than the minority know that they being are sort-changed? Would they vote against Tharman in the coming GE? Hmmmm
up to them to say what they wantwe just listen:cool:
phantom_opera
20-04-13, 17:05
b4 that agents will say quickly buy CM coming
now agent will say quickly buy garmen say price is right
oh ya keppel land elated
The cost of living is going to inch up further if they continue to increase the rental of the industrial/commercial lease.:scared-3:
b4 that agents will say quickly buy CM coming
now agent will say quickly buy garmen say price is right
oh ya keppel land elated
b4 that agents will say quickly buy CM coming
now agent will say quickly buy garmen say price is right
oh ya keppel land elated
anyhow also the agent can spin it in a positive light. lol.
phantom_opera
20-04-13, 17:14
The cost of living is going to inch up further if they continue to increase the rental of the industrial/commercial lease.:scared-3:
McDonald just up prices
McDonald just up prices
go for their $2 deals.
thomastansb
20-04-13, 17:23
Must see who is Tharman going to face lah. I cannot vote for an idiot because Tharman increase GST to 8% right?
If Tharman increases GST further and continue his current policies to increase his so-called comsumption tax and tax on wealth by increasing property tax instead of taxing income and estate duty! Would any middle/upper middle income man with little intelligent level but at least higher than the minority know that they being are sort-changed? Would they vote against Tharman in the coming GE? Hmmmm
phantom_opera
20-04-13, 17:25
we are behind china by 2y so capital gain tax will come 1y to 2y later
prepare fir divorce lol, inflation so high still Inc GST is suicide
I believe many, me included, will vote for that idiot as long as he is not Tharman because at least that idiot did not do these wrong things about taxes.... :rolleyes:
Must see who is Tharman going to face lah. I cannot vote for an idiot because Tharman increase GST to 8% right?
princess_morbucks
20-04-13, 20:32
So I guess Deutschebank did not predict correctly.
http://sbr.com.sg/economy/news/more-property-cooling-measures-incoming-deutsche-bank
See their article on 12 April 2013 :
More property cooling measures incoming: Deutsche Bank
Singapore badly wants to subdue inflation.
A new Deutsche Bank report explains that the Singapore government, keen on keeping inflation under control, will be eyeing even more property cooling measures, in conjunction with an unchanged monetary policy. But the bank signalled doubt at the impact of these measures because Singapore is still swayed heavily by macroeconomic winds in spite of forceful domestic policy efforts.
Here's more from Deustche Bank:
Singapore’s growth depends largely on external demand, which has been weak for a while, affecting exports and production, but the economy’s fundamentals remain strong, thanks to low interest rates supporting thriving domestic demand. If anything, some slowdown in growth is desirable as that could relieve some cost pressure on the economy.
With this backdrop, we don’t expect the authorities to have much desire to support the economy. Interestingly, the thrust of policy measures lately has been in the opposite direction, with the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) steepening the slope on the nominal effective exchange rate (NEER) appreciation last year and a series of macro prudential measures being put in place since 2010 to cool the property market.
As long as interest rates remain at their floor and global liquidity abundant, there will be only limited traction from steps to cool the property market. As cost of financing remains cheap, money will find its way to the property market and associated activities.
The curious characteristic of the Singaporean economy is that it is compelled to maintain a policy of exchange rate appreciation to fight tradable price inflation, which in turn brings in flows and keeps rates low, and consequently fuels non-tradable inflation (e.g. rent and transportation).
The authorities have taken an array of measures to stem the latter, but the impact has been limited so far. We think the MAS will likely maintain an unchanged stance during its policy review later this month (as it would not want to cause a rise in inflation expectations through the tradable channel when non-tradable inflation is so high), and more property cooling measures could well be in the pipeline. But we are not convinced if this policy mix will bring about the desired result. Like it or not, Singapore’s fortunes will continue to remain tied to the vagaries of global macro-economy and developed country monetary policy for years to come.
we are behind china by 2y so capital gain tax will come 1y to 2y later
prepare fir divorce lol, inflation so high still Inc GST is suicide
Isn't the absd, ssd more potent than capital gain tax? Make money or not u still have to pay. I would argue we are ahead of china in this aspect.
phantom_opera
20-04-13, 22:15
Isn't the absd, ssd more potent than capital gain tax? Make money or not u still have to pay. I would argue we are ahead of china in this aspect.
not really, SSD is over in 4y (and reducing each year), capital gain tax will be in force until they say remove
thomastansb
21-04-13, 00:28
It depends. I don't see him doing anything wrong. He has been great in fact. But different people, different views. Some people don't like GST 7%, some see GST as helping the poor by channeling the wealth. Some gain, some don't so too bad..
I believe many, me included, will vote for that idiot as long as he is not Tharman because at least that idiot did not do these wrong things about taxes.... :rolleyes:
I'm a very open people! Can you describe in detail how GST helps the poor by channeling the wealth by providing supporting number?
No point of giving the LIP-service as we are clever people and have intelligent level to comprehend and analyze. The floor is yours to convince us here!
You have other posting in other thread, I shall reply you tomorrow as I'm sleepy now....
It depends. I don't see him doing anything wrong. He has been great in fact. But different people, different views. Some people don't like GST 7%, some see GST as helping the poor by channeling the wealth. Some gain, some don't so too bad..
So u rather they go straight to increase your income tax? For those poor, do they go shopping in supermarket or eat in restaurant as often as u do or they do marketing in wet market and eat at home for instance? Do they have more chance to escape GST more likely?
Maybe also wrong to say that the rich would spend more and will pay more of such consumption tax...
Tax is inevitable! Ppl so happy about the free MRT trip, the low BTO price, so happy about MRT going to built at their doorstep and so happy about govt spending money to suit their lifestyle....all this money come from where??
There are many kinds of tax system and there are pros and cons...I'm not saying they are doing the right thing if they increase the GST but spare a thought....:o
:2cents:
I'm not trying to convince u as I see no point in doing that but just offering my views...:)
I'm a very open people! Can you describe in detail how GST helps the poor by channeling the wealth by providing supporting number?
No point of giving the LIP-service as we are clever people and have intelligent level to comprehend and analyze. The floor is yours to convince us here!
You have other posting in other thread, I shall reply you tomorrow as I'm sleepy now....
I think you are missing the trees.
1. Firstly, GST is unfair as it taxes everybody, including new borns, children, retirees, sick, disabled etc. they earn nothing why do they need to pay tax? Everything you buy, including everything from wet market & supermarket, attracts GST. You have confused GST with UK's VAT. VAT does not tax basic necessities, but GST do. In my opinion, GST 7% is equivalent to 50% VAT for middle income families!
2. If GST is implemented to collect more revenue, why are the top earners given income tax cuts? Isn't this giving people the impression that they impose additional tax on all other people in order to cut the tax of top earners (of which the policy makers are included in this category)?
3. Now they are talking of more tax on wealth, but same problem as 1 again, it affect the masses while the top earners still pay less taxes because of (2). As far as we can see, this tax is to collect more taxes from general population since the real tax on wealth for the rich, estate duty, has been abolished! Again, we know know who benefited right? :banghead:
So u rather they go straight to increase your income tax? For those poor, do they go shopping in supermarket or eat in restaurant as often as u do or they do marketing in wet market and eat at home for instance? Do they have more chance to escape GST more likely?
Maybe also wrong to say that the rich would spend more and will pay more of such consumption tax...
Tax is inevitable! Ppl so happy about the free MRT trip, the low BTO price, so happy about MRT going to built at their doorstep and so happy about govt spending money to suit their lifestyle....all this money come from where??
There are many kinds of tax system and there are pros and cons...I'm not saying they are doing the right thing if they increase the GST but spare a thought....:o
:2cents:
I'm not trying to convince u as I see no point in doing that but just offering my views...:)
Brudder teddy, Your points are very valid... The additional taxes are the mega rich who move from Aus/USA/India, etc.... You know who rite... This people will now need to incur taxes here when they set up offices. If this people don't set up shop here, no income for govt. now they set up here, additional income to govt that never was here.
Why did we lower income tax. Look at Hong Kong tax system...
The rich will always find ways to 'siam' tax
I think you are missing the trees.
1. Firstly, GST is unfair as it taxes everybody, including new borns, children, retirees, sick, disabled etc. they earn nothing why do they need to pay tax? Everything you buy, including everything from wet market & supermarket, attracts GST. You have confused GST with UK's VAT. VAT does not tax basic necessities, but GST do. In my opinion, GST 7% is equivalent to 50% VAT for middle income families!
2. If GST is implemented to collect more revenue, why are the top earners given income tax cuts? Isn't this giving people the impression that they impose additional tax on all other people in order to cut the tax of top earners (of which the policy makers are included in this category)?
3. Now they are talking of more tax on wealth, but same problem as 1 again, it affect the masses while the top earners still pay less taxes because of (2). As far as we can see, this tax is to collect more taxes from general population since the real tax on wealth for the rich, estate duty, has been abolished! Again, we know know who benefited right? :banghead:
So it is the job of the govt to close the loophole which these rich are using to avoid tax!
So you saying gov taking easy way to raise more taxes from general population instead since they have no way to Siam tax? :doh:
Yes, look at HK system, they have NO GST despite having max 15% income tax! :p
Sg govt not so capable why get pay >5x of HK govt hah? :rolleyes:
Brudder teddy, Your points are very valid... The additional taxes are the mega rich who move from Aus/USA/India, etc.... You know who rite... This people will now need to incur taxes here when they set up offices. If this people don't set up shop here, no income for govt. now they set up here, additional income to govt that never was here.
Why did we lower income tax. Look at Hong Kong tax system...
The rich will always find ways to 'siam' tax
thomastansb
21-04-13, 13:46
Top earners get income tax cuts? Who? Maybe you can enlighten me.
GST is fair because everyone get taxed but the poor get back more GST rebates, electrical rebates, workfare and many more. If you take away 7% GST, you take away all the rebates, all the workfare and all subsidies and all financial assistance. Someone earning 1k a month (my auntie) will pay at most $70 a month in GST or $840 a year. She gets back more than 8 times the amount every year. Of course, if you do away with the GST, everyone benefit including the rich. I benefit as well. You benefit as well. But the poor will suffer.
I think you are missing the trees.
1. Firstly, GST is unfair as it taxes everybody, including new borns, children, retirees, sick, disabled etc. they earn nothing why do they need to pay tax? Everything you buy, including everything from wet market & supermarket, attracts GST. You have confused GST with UK's VAT. VAT does not tax basic necessities, but GST do. In my opinion, GST 7% is equivalent to 50% VAT for middle income families!
2. If GST is implemented to collect more revenue, why are the top earners given income tax cuts? Isn't this giving people the impression that they impose additional tax on all other people in order to cut the tax of top earners (of which the policy makers are included in this category)?
3. Now they are talking of more tax on wealth, but same problem as 1 again, it affect the masses while the top earners still pay less taxes because of (2). As far as we can see, this tax is to collect more taxes from general population since the real tax on wealth for the rich, estate duty, has been abolished! Again, we know know who benefited right? :banghead:
thomastansb
21-04-13, 13:49
You can't compare like this. You can't take an apple and compare. You have to take the whole basket and compare. That is why no need compare other countries.
HK has no 90 sqm 4 bedroom HDB at 250k. Maybe 200k with grants and subsidy. And don't even talk about subsidised housing in HK :scared-4:. Sorry, cage I mean... So you want their "cage" standard?
I forgot, Singaporeans want the salary of danish, air of swiss, working hours of Greece and lastly, cost of living of Zimbabwe. Buy HDB at 20k, want to sell at 1M.
So it is the job of the govt to close the loophole which these rich are using to avoid tax!
So you saying gov taking easy way to raise more taxes from general population instead since they have no way to Siam tax? :doh:
Yes, look at HK system, they have NO GST despite having max 15% income tax! :p
Sg govt not so capable why get pay >5x of HK govt hah? :rolleyes:
You can't compare like this. You can't take an apple and compare. You have to take the whole basket and compare. That is why no need compare other countries.
HK has no 90 sqm 4 bedroom HDB at 250k. Maybe 200k with grants and subsidy. And don't even talk about subsidised housing in HK :scared-4:. Sorry, cage I mean... So you want their "cage" standard?
I forgot, Singaporeans want the salary of danish, air of swiss, working hours of Greece and lastly, cost of living of Zimbabwe. Buy HDB at 20k, want to sell at 1M.
hard truths man ... some singapore colleagues i come across actually perfect fit espectially the Africa standard of living and Swiss profits when they want to sell their property... wait a min ... this fits bro MTB ... :scared-2:
1. You don't even know this fact? If so, you are really ignorant indeed! Since you are so ignorant, what basis are you arguing as though you are wise & knowledgeable? :tongue3:
2. Typical excuses of MIW. Since they are not increasing GST for past few years, so no longer willing to help the poor anymore? :p
may be you can tell us how cutting the tax of tax earners by 5% & abolishing estate duty & then implement GST help the majority of middle-income earners, those making up of almost 90% of the population? :rolleyes:
1. Top earners get income tax cuts? Who? Maybe you can enlighten me.
2. GST is fair because everyone get taxed but the poor get back more GST rebates, electrical rebates, workfare and many more. If you take away 7% GST, you take away all the rebates, all the workfare and all subsidies and all financial assistance. Someone earning 1k a month (my auntie) will pay at most $70 a month in GST or $840 a year. She gets back more than 8 times the amount every year. Of course, if you do away with the GST, everyone benefit including the rich. I benefit as well. You benefit as well. But the poor will suffer.
thomastansb
21-04-13, 15:48
You still haven't answer me. How did the rich income taxes get cut? Still waiting for a reply.
1. You don't even know this fact? If so, you are really ignorant indeed! Since you are so ignorant, what basis are you arguing as though you are wise & knowledgeable? :tongue3:
2. Typical excuses of MIW. Since they are not increasing GST for past few years, so no longer willing to help the poor anymore? :p
may be you can tell us how cutting the tax of tax earners by 5% & abolishing estate duty & then implement GST help the majority of middle-income earners, those making up of almost 90% of the population? :rolleyes:
Please go google to find out. If you don't even know this fact and can't even bother to find out the facts, what facts are you using to argue on this issue? :tongue3:
People like you would just argue without any facts and basis to back up your argument?! It just shows how hollow you are. As the saying goes, empty vessels make the loudest noise. It is rather true when applied to you.
Please check the fact and come back again to argue why the top earners income tax were being cut by 5% such that GST needs to be implemented! :tsk-tsk:
You still haven't answer me. How did the rich income taxes get cut? Still waiting for a reply.
thomastansb
21-04-13, 19:17
Show me the proof... Don't talk so much...
Please go google to find out. If you don't even know this fact and can't even bother to find out the facts, what facts are you using to argue on this issue? :tongue3:
People like you would just argue without any facts and basis to back up your argument?! It just shows how hollow you are. As the saying goes, empty vessels make the loudest noise. It is rather true when applied to you.
Please check the fact and come back again to argue why the top earners income tax were being cut by 5% such that GST needs to be implemented! :tsk-tsk:
After so long, still can't find my example! REAL MORON!
Show me the proof... Don't talk so much...
i see u argue here and there and thats not the spirit....if we disagree, move on...
if u think HK has better tax system, then u might want to consider migrating there. First of all, you must know how much u pay and what u get. Unless u are very familiar with HK public housing policy, healthcare system, their educational system, then you can stand tall and make that statement. I need not argue with you because you can disagree and we move on.
Every tax system has its pros and cons and unless u work in IRAS and know all statistic, if not, i can firmly say u are not fit to make such a comment that GST is not working. I'm not saying that this is the best but, it can work.
and who are u to say tax the rich more?? how rich is rich?
Imagine if you go out with a group of friends for dinner and every time those poorer guys say, ok, those who own car will treat those taking public transport....what do u think in the long run??
think deeper my friend. If u think it is so easy to do this job, go get this million dollar job.
no offense...:o
we are here to share our opinion, not to force ppl to be convinced with our views.
I think you are missing the trees.
1. Firstly, GST is unfair as it taxes everybody, including new borns, children, retirees, sick, disabled etc. they earn nothing why do they need to pay tax? Everything you buy, including everything from wet market & supermarket, attracts GST. You have confused GST with UK's VAT. VAT does not tax basic necessities, but GST do. In my opinion, GST 7% is equivalent to 50% VAT for middle income families!
2. If GST is implemented to collect more revenue, why are the top earners given income tax cuts? Isn't this giving people the impression that they impose additional tax on all other people in order to cut the tax of top earners (of which the policy makers are included in this category)?
3. Now they are talking of more tax on wealth, but same problem as 1 again, it affect the masses while the top earners still pay less taxes because of (2). As far as we can see, this tax is to collect more taxes from general population since the real tax on wealth for the rich, estate duty, has been abolished! Again, we know know who benefited right? :banghead:
thomastansb
21-04-13, 20:35
If you can prove it, then we talk. So your statement of rich people pay lesser tax, where?
I only know rich people pay 20% income tax. Their property tax are much higher.
I am still waiting.....
After so long, still can't find my example! REAL MORON!
Well, the guru has spoken as below, rough guide of how rich is considered "rich"? May be in Singpapore we can use a junior minister's pay as a guide, say >$1m is considered rich? :ashamed1:
Quoting Warren Buffett:
The only argument against modestly raising these taxes, aside from the fact that no one wants to see their own personal taxes raised, is that increasing taxes on investing and earning will discourage the country's entrepreneurs and investors from building companies.
Buffett says, as he has before, that modestly higher taxes would not cause him to work any less hard. He points out that, even in the 1960s and 1970s, eras with truly high taxes, these taxes did not stop him and his clients from pursuing investment opportunities. Lastly, he notes that, given the vast sums of money that the richest Americans have banked in the past decade, they will have plenty of money to invest even if taxes rise modestly.
And then Buffett lays out a series of proposals that are eminently reasonable.
First, he only calls for raising taxes on Americans earning more than $500,000 a year, not the $250,000 that President Obama is focused on. Families who earn $250,000 and live in major cities justifiably point out that this salary does not leave them feeling "rich." So, raising the definition of rich would go a long way toward making these tax hikes more palatable.
Next, he calls for a minimum 30% tax on Americans making $1 million to $10 million or more
i see u argue here and there and thats not the spirit....if we disagree, move on...
if u think HK has better tax system, then u might want to consider migrating there. First of all, you must know how much u pay and what u get. Unless u are very familiar with HK public housing policy, healthcare system, their educational system, then you can stand tall and make that statement. I need not argue with you because you can disagree and we move on.
Every tax system has its pros and cons and unless u work in IRAS and know all statistic, if not, i can firmly say u are not fit to make such a comment that GST is not working. I'm not saying that this is the best but, it can work.
and who are u to say tax the rich more?? how rich is rich?
Imagine if you go out with a group of friends for dinner and every time those poorer guys say, ok, those who own car will treat those taking public transport....what do u think in the long run??
think deeper my friend. If u think it is so easy to do this job, go get this million dollar job.
no offense...:o
we are here to share our opinion, not to force ppl to be convinced with our views.
in every society, the definition of rich is different. In India, in Saudi or even in China now. Do you think maybe 500K is also not considered as rich in Saudi?? But maybe in India, 50K is considered rich....
anyway, Warren Buffet doesn't always be right. his view can only be taken as reference as we are in different country, different society...:o :2cents:
i just want to say that "tax" system is very complex and it is not as simple as you thought.
is it easier to implement GST and then give u GST rebate and decide who qualify for it? Or go straight to tax accordingly to income bracket??
And why do u think they still implement GST??
I hope you see my point now ;)
I could be wrong, just my opinion.
Well, the guru has spoken as below, rough guide of how rich is considered "rich"? May be in Singpapore we can use a junior minister's pay as a guide, say >$1m is considered rich? :ashamed1:
Quoting Warren Buffett:
The only argument against modestly raising these taxes, aside from the fact that no one wants to see their own personal taxes raised, is that increasing taxes on investing and earning will discourage the country's entrepreneurs and investors from building companies.
Buffett says, as he has before, that modestly higher taxes would not cause him to work any less hard. He points out that, even in the 1960s and 1970s, eras with truly high taxes, these taxes did not stop him and his clients from pursuing investment opportunities. Lastly, he notes that, given the vast sums of money that the richest Americans have banked in the past decade, they will have plenty of money to invest even if taxes rise modestly.
And then Buffett lays out a series of proposals that are eminently reasonable.
First, he only calls for raising taxes on Americans earning more than $500,000 a year, not the $250,000 that President Obama is focused on. Families who earn $250,000 and live in major cities justifiably point out that this salary does not leave them feeling "rich." So, raising the definition of rich would go a long way toward making these tax hikes more palatable.
Next, he calls for a minimum 30% tax on Americans making $1 million to $10 million or more
thomastansb
21-04-13, 22:18
Don't cherry pick lah. US got pension, US got jobless benefit. How to compare? Don't understand you. US got oil, US got land, US got nuclear plant and 5,000 unclear bombs. So different. Someone earning > 1M can claim no job relief and they pay 30% tax. Someone earning > 1M in SG has no where to go to and they pay 20% tax.
You standard noise maker. Keep complaining, then purposely pick something to debate. I also can do it. Swiss got better air quality, Tokyo got better transport system, HK has lower tax, Iran has oil. Then how? Go Iran?
Well, the guru has spoken as below, rough guide of how rich is considered "rich"? May be in Singpapore we can use a junior minister's pay as a guide, say >$1m is considered rich? :ashamed1:
No wonder they die die must reduce their income tax from 33% in 1994 to 20% since 2010! An income tax cut of 13% but GST increase of 7% only for them! Good job! Good deal! You reminded me to go further back and remember that the top income earners has a income tax cut of 13% and NOT 5%! :doh:
Poor middle income and poorer income families! Do they get such good deal? :rolleyes:
Don't cherry pick lah. US got pension, US got jobless benefit. How to compare? Don't understand you. US got oil, US got land, US got nuclear plant and 5,000 unclear bombs. So different. Someone earning > 1M can claim no job relief and they pay 30% tax. Someone earning > 1M in SG has no where to go to and they pay 20% tax.
You standard noise maker. Keep complaining, then purposely pick something to debate. I also can do it. Swiss got better air quality, Tokyo got better transport system, HK has lower tax, Iran has oil. Then how? Go Iran?
thomastansb
21-04-13, 23:18
They don't. They pay -30% income tax. It is not good. It is out of this world.
No wonder they die die must reduce their income tax from 33% in 1994 to 20% since 2010! An income tax cut of 13% but GST increase of 7% only for them! Good job! Good deal! You reminded me to go further back and remember that the top income earners has a income tax cut of 13% and NOT 5%! :doh:
Poor middle income and poorer income families! Do they get such good deal? :rolleyes:
No wonder they die die must reduce their income tax from 33% in 1994 to 20% since 2010! An income tax cut of 13% but GST increase of 7% only for them! Good job! Good deal! You reminded me to go further back and remember that the top income earners has a income tax cut of 13% and NOT 5%! :doh:
Poor middle income and poorer income families! Do they get such good deal? :rolleyes:
Who u think uses the public infrastructure more?
One who travel in mrt everyday? or one who pay high COE Car and road tax to reach at work?
one who use HDB rabate or one who buys private?
No system is perfect. SG is close to perfect and it works fine.
don't be :banghead::banghead::banghead:
No wonder they die die must reduce their income tax from 33% in 1994 to 20% since 2010! An income tax cut of 13% but GST increase of 7% only for them! Good job! Good deal! You reminded me to go further back and remember that the top income earners has a income tax cut of 13% and NOT 5%! :doh:
Poor middle income and poorer income families! Do they get such good deal? :rolleyes:
I believe the gahmen is trying to balance between attracting high income earner and too high GST.... I think we can probably increase income tax a bit for those above 1 m, but the problem will be.... What if they ask their bosses to relocate them to be based in hkg instead... Coz the tax there is 15% only... We lose out on taxing thisnguy at 20% just because we want to tax him at a higher rate...
I think there is no right answer.....
Difficult topic.....
I believe tharman is a smart as a finance minister we can find so levee him to do the job..... He already head shining like nobody business you still want him to pull his hair out? No more hair to pull Liao....
Very simple, I give them good idea if they cannot think of any: look at the industries.
Many industries and businesses they cannot earn singapore residents money without residing in Singapore. E.g. the ministers, they cannot earn so much if they go overseas to be ministers right?
Another example: retails, restaurants, supermarts, etc, they cannot setup shop overseas and sell their service to singapore residents right?
Another example, property developers and construction companies, they cannot build overseas and expect to sell for singapore residents to live in as own-stay house right?
There are many many such industries, e.g. airlines, shipping, etc etc which cannot be relocated because overseas infrastructure are just too poor.
So, they can save their empty useless threat and stupid idiotic excuse because if they want to threaten to relocate, please do so. Somebody will take over their vacancy to earn these money in Singapore that they have no way to bring overseas and earn if relocated overseas.
See, either they are plain lousy that they cannot even think of these or they are just plainly not interested to doing anything.
What say you? :p
I believe the gahmen is trying to balance between attracting high income earner and too high GST.... I think we can probably increase income tax a bit for those above 1 m, but the problem will be.... What if they ask their bosses to relocate them to be based in hkg instead... Coz the tax there is 15% only... We lose out on taxing thisnguy at 20% just because we want to tax him at a higher rate...
I think there is no right answer.....
Difficult topic.....
I believe tharman is a smart as a finance minister we can find so levee him to do the job..... He already head shining like nobody business you still want him to pull his hair out? No more hair to pull Liao....
Very simple, I give them good idea if they cannot think of any: look at the industries.
Many industries and businesses they cannot earn singapore residents money without residing in Singapore. E.g. the ministers, they cannot earn so much if they go overseas to be ministers right?
Another example: retails, restaurants, supermarts, etc, they cannot setup shop overseas and sell their service to singapore residents right?
Another example, property developers and construction companies, they cannot build overseas and expect to sell for singapore residents to live in as own-stay house right?
There are many many such industries, e.g. airlines, shipping, etc etc which cannot be relocated because overseas infrastructure are just too poor.
So, they can save their empty useless threat and stupid idiotic excuse because if they want to threaten to relocate, please do so. Somebody will take over their vacancy to earn these money in Singapore
that they have no way to bring overseas and earn if relocated overseas.
See, either they are plain lousy that they cannot even think of these or they are just plainly not interested to doing anything.
What say you? :p
I still think there are many people that can be based overseas.... Especially when we have so many mncs here.... Just look atbthe finance sector... All the Hugh paying jobs in hkg, only the lower end back room Jobs in Singapore....
Banking also got many types, those private wealth serving Singapore residents can go overseas mah? Those relying on local depositors money can serve Singapore residents using overseas offices? You expect the rich singapore residents to fly overseas to meet the private wealth banker etc? :p
See, there are many jobs earning money from Singapore residents which cannot be shipped overseas than you are made to believed! :rolleyes:
Those like property developers, construction, F&B, retails are even more obvious!
I still think there are many people that can be based overseas.... Especially when we have so many mncs here.... Just look atbthe finance sector... All the Hugh paying jobs in hkg, only the lower end back room Jobs in Singapore....
thomastansb
22-04-13, 10:04
We vote the ministers in and the fact is, they took a pay cut.
Just look at George Yeo. Work part time and earn so much. Yeah, they cannot earn so much if they go overseas? :banghead:
Very simple, I give them good idea if they cannot think of any: look at the industries.
Many industries and businesses they cannot earn singapore residents money without residing in Singapore. E.g. the ministers, they cannot earn so much if they go overseas to be ministers right?
Another example: retails, restaurants, supermarts, etc, they cannot setup shop overseas and sell their service to singapore residents right?
Another example, property developers and construction companies, they cannot build overseas and expect to sell for singapore residents to live in as own-stay house right?
There are many many such industries, e.g. airlines, shipping, etc etc which cannot be relocated because overseas infrastructure are just too poor.
So, they can save their empty useless threat and stupid idiotic excuse because if they want to threaten to relocate, please do so. Somebody will take over their vacancy to earn these money in Singapore that they have no way to bring overseas and earn if relocated overseas.
See, either they are plain lousy that they cannot even think of these or they are just plainly not interested to doing anything.
What say you? :p
We vote the ministers in and the fact is, they took a pay cut.
Just look at George Yeo. Work part time and earn so much. Yeah, they cannot earn so much if they go overseas? :banghead:
The fact is if the TAX on the rich is so high for income they will just base in HK and run the business from there. So zero tax collected. The idea with Singapore is to attract the high net worth to base here so with that they would also bring new business opportunity and job opportunities for the people.
I dont see pt making them feel poorer to make the locals feel richer? wats the pt.
http://www.taxreform.gov.hk/eng/pdf/sfst_article.pdf
Here u go. HK been trying to implement GST for the longest time. They also need to implement GST. With aging population if taxes are dependent on salary or business. they cannot plan or invest in resources as the collection are very volatile and un sustainable .
Very simple, I give them good idea if they cannot think of any: look at the industries.
Many industries and businesses they cannot earn singapore residents money without residing in Singapore. E.g. the ministers, they cannot earn so much if they go overseas to be ministers right?
Another example: retails, restaurants, supermarts, etc, they cannot setup shop overseas and sell their service to singapore residents right?
Another example, property developers and construction companies, they cannot build overseas and expect to sell for singapore residents to live in as own-stay house right?
There are many many such industries, e.g. airlines, shipping, etc etc which cannot be relocated because overseas infrastructure are just too poor.
So, they can save their empty useless threat and stupid idiotic excuse because if they want to threaten to relocate, please do so. Somebody will take over their vacancy to earn these money in Singapore that they have no way to bring overseas and earn if relocated overseas.
See, either they are plain lousy that they cannot even think of these or they are just plainly not interested to doing anything.
What say you? :p
Ministers are not industry.
thomastansb
22-04-13, 13:09
He got a lot to complain one. Like one forum-er pointed out, if he likes to complain so much, go meet the minister lor. If want to complain, there are tons of things to complain.
US - Unemployment benefits
Sweden - Allowance of 1.5k as a student, free healthcare
HK - Free education
Tokyo - Pension
Brunei - Cheap petrol
Somemore the things he complain about are also twisted one. If he says our transport is bad, I can accept that. But he claimed "The rich get 5% tax reduction". Till now, still haven't seen anything about that. The only thing I know from him is reduction in income tax across the board but as usual, these kind of opposition lovers only say "the rich benefits". The poor suffers. Then they will close both eyes on workfare and all the rebates the poor are getting. They will shut off their brains about the tax rebates the middle class are getting. Best of all, here is a property forum. Surely he would have heard of those staying at high AV house getting taxed more but as usual, his brain shut off automatically. He just continue ranting about the rich (jealousy) and how ministers can't earn much (George Yeo?) outside WITHOUT considering how the poor or middle class might suffer. That is pretty selfish....
http://www.taxreform.gov.hk/eng/pdf/sfst_article.pdf
Here u go. HK been trying to implement GST for the longest time. They also need to implement GST. With aging population if taxes are dependent on salary or business. they cannot plan or invest in resources as the collection are very volatile and un sustainable .
phantom_opera
22-04-13, 15:39
lai liao lai liao ... EP requirement will go north further, indeed, very good way of inflating Singaporean wages
Q1 Employment Pass
•Young foreign graduates earning at least $3,000
Mr Tan pointed out that he is “not particularly happy” with this situation, given that the economy continued to grow in the meantime. He asked, “Should $3,000, for example, be the threshold where we admit in people on the employment pass?”
“I think the numbers will go up … I don’t think it should be $3,000.”
EP holders are Sporeans? :beats-me-man: :beats-me-man:
lai liao lai liao ... EP requirement will go north further, indeed, very good way of inflating Singaporean wages
Q1 Employment Pass
•Young foreign graduates earning at least $3,000
Mr Tan pointed out that he is “not particularly happy” with this situation, given that the economy continued to grow in the meantime. He asked, “Should $3,000, for example, be the threshold where we admit in people on the employment pass?”
“I think the numbers will go up … I don’t think it should be $3,000.”
exactly....the rich are very mobile...:p
which is why i say earlier that it is not so easy and simple to implement tax.
If so simple, then just tax according to income bracket la, no need headache...no need to implement GST, then see who qualify for GST rebate, and then somemore let ppl cry father cry mother...what for??
for those who like to spend more shopping, eating in restaurant etc, pay consumption tax la (GST), and for those who cannot afford, then they should just go wet market do their marketing, eat healthy cook food more often at home, etc. Some more, can earn rebate if they really pay less consumption tax. Isn't this a better way to do it?
foreigners who come here to shop also pay....of course not for those items which they can claim back rebate. :o
The fact is if the TAX on the rich is so high for income they will just base in HK and run the business from there. So zero tax collected. The idea with Singapore is to attract the high net worth to base here so with that they would also bring new business opportunity and job opportunities for the people.
I dont see pt making them feel poorer to make the locals feel richer? wats the pt.
thomastansb
22-04-13, 16:47
Some people are saying go hawker or market need to pay GST :banghead:
Funny people. Twist facts and lie for the sake of winning an argument.
exactly....the rich are very mobile...:p
which is why i say earlier that it is not so easy and simple to implement tax.
If so simple, then just tax according to income bracket la, no need headache...no need to implement GST, then see who qualify for GST rebate, and then somemore let ppl cry father cry mother...what for??
for those who like to spend more shopping, eating in restaurant etc, pay consumption tax la (GST), and for those who cannot afford, then they should just go wet market do their marketing, eat healthy cook food more often at home, etc. Some more, can earn rebate if they really pay less consumption tax. Isn't this a better way to do it?
foreigners who come here to shop also pay....of course not for those items which they can claim back rebate. :o
Some people are saying go hawker or market need to pay GST :banghead:
Funny people. Twist facts and lie for the sake of winning an argument.
do you mean to say hawkers and groceries sellers at wet markets do not incur GST at all, in their entire process chain of delivery of services/goods?
thomastansb
22-04-13, 16:55
So I buy 1 plate of chicken rice for $3, do I pay GST?
do you mean to say hawkers and groceries sellers at wet markets do not incur GST at all, in their entire process chain of delivery of services/goods?
So I buy 1 plate of chicken rice for $3, do I pay GST?
that wasn't my question. let me put it in simpler terms - do chicken rice sellers incur GST, as part of their business costs, in the act of delivery their chicken rice to customers?
thomastansb
22-04-13, 17:06
It depends where they got their chicken from. If they buy from NTUC, of course.
But I am talking about a normal person. Like me. I go hawker eat, I don't pay GST. But some people rebutted that it is included in the $3. That is nonsense. Please let me know which hawker charge GST.
that wasn't my question. let me put it in simpler terms - do chicken rice sellers incur GST, as part of their business costs, in the act of delivery their chicken rice to customers?
It depends where they got their chicken from. If they buy from NTUC, of course.
But I am talking about a normal person. Like me. I go hawker eat, I don't pay GST. But some people rebutted that it is included in the $3. That is nonsense. Please let me know which hawker charge GST.
i believe their thought line is in the same drift as my question, though i'm not bothering to vet the language.
there are many other avenues where the hawkers may incur GST - utilities, rent, cleaning services, etc etc.
It depends where they got their chicken from. If they buy from NTUC, of course.
But I am talking about a normal person. Like me. I go hawker eat, I don't pay GST. But some people rebutted that it is included in the $3. That is nonsense. Please let me know which hawker charge GST.
got 1 famous western food selling at coffee shop started to charge GST since last year. :scared-5:
Yes you are right. I under-stated. In fact, the top income earners, the Ministers included, got a income tax cut of 13% since 1994! :tongue3:
And they have estate duty abolished as well, save even much more taxes! :p
Let's start calculating again: Earn $10m a year. Save 13% income tax means a tax savings of $1.3m a year! Wow! :scared-1:
Anybody would believe they pay $1.3m in GST a year? In order to pay $1.3m a year at a 7% GST rate, they need to spend $18.6m in 1 year! :doh:
He got a lot to complain one. Like one forum-er pointed out, if he likes to complain so much, go meet the minister lor. If want to complain, there are tons of things to complain.
US - Unemployment benefits
Sweden - Allowance of 1.5k as a student, free healthcare
HK - Free education
Tokyo - Pension
Brunei - Cheap petrol
Somemore the things he complain about are also twisted one. If he says our transport is bad, I can accept that. But he claimed "The rich get 5% tax reduction". Till now, still haven't seen anything about that. The only thing I know from him is reduction in income tax across the board but as usual, these kind of opposition lovers only say "the rich benefits". The poor suffers. Then they will close both eyes on workfare and all the rebates the poor are getting. They will shut off their brains about the tax rebates the middle class are getting. Best of all, here is a property forum. Surely he would have heard of those staying at high AV house getting taxed more but as usual, his brain shut off automatically. He just continue ranting about the rich (jealousy) and how ministers can't earn much (George Yeo?) outside WITHOUT considering how the poor or middle class might suffer. That is pretty selfish....
You are saying Singapore got items that are GST exempted? You mean the hawkers' food ingredients are GST exempted? If so, that must be the biggest lies we know. You trying to twist words and tell lies here in front of everybody? :tongue3:
Just like you are trying to tell people that Singapore's GST at 7% is so much lower than UK's VAT of 20%! Are they even comparable? As far as I know, to a middle income family, a UK VAT of 20% is equivalent to <1% of Singapore's GST! :rolleyes:
Some people are saying go hawker or market need to pay GST :banghead:
Funny people. Twist facts and lie for the sake of winning an argument.
It is not just that they started to charge GST, it is just whether they are explicit and transparent in their charges or not (because we all know that their nett charge already included all GST charges they pay to their vendors). Or may be they want to increase charges again and hence give charging GST as a good excuse? :doh:
got 1 famous western food selling at coffee shop started to charge GST since last year. :scared-5:
and there are some stupid idiots saying that the rich will pay more GST because they spend more? Can they earn $10m a year and spend $18.6m a year?! :tongue3:
And please note that they are the ones who started calling people idiots, so I just return them, furthermore my statement has been backed up with facts, not like theirs they have no facts to back up their statement! :tsk-tsk:
I have proved that they are indeed "IDIOTS"!
Yes you are right. I under-stated. In fact, the top income earners, the Ministers included, got a income tax cut of 13% since 1994! :tongue3:
And they have estate duty abolished as well, save even much more taxes! :p
Let's start calculating again: Earn $10m a year. Save 13% income tax means a tax savings of $1.3m a year! Wow! :scared-1:
Anybody would believe they pay $1.3m in GST a year? In order to pay $1.3m a year at a 7% GST rate, they need to spend $18.6m in 1 year! :doh:
Originally Posted by thomastansb
He got a lot to complain one. Like one forum-er pointed out, if he likes to complain so much, go meet the minister lor. If want to complain, there are tons of things to complain.
US - Unemployment benefits
Sweden - Allowance of 1.5k as a student, free healthcare
HK - Free education
Tokyo - Pension
Brunei - Cheap petrol
Somemore the things he complain about are also twisted one. If he says our transport is bad, I can accept that. But he claimed "The rich get 5% tax reduction". Till now, still haven't seen anything about that. The only thing I know from him is reduction in income tax across the board but as usual, these kind of opposition lovers only say "the rich benefits". The poor suffers. Then they will close both eyes on workfare and all the rebates the poor are getting. They will shut off their brains about the tax rebates the middle class are getting. Best of all, here is a property forum. Surely he would have heard of those staying at high AV house getting taxed more but as usual, his brain shut off automatically. He just continue ranting about the rich (jealousy) and how ministers can't earn much (George Yeo?) outside WITHOUT considering how the poor or middle class might suffer. That is pretty selfish....
This is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard about GST! :doh:
So I buy 1 plate of chicken rice for $3, do I pay GST?
thomastansb
22-04-13, 20:58
Do you even know the criteria to charge GST?
Nvm, when you set up business, you will know...
This is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard about GST! :doh:
thomastansb
22-04-13, 21:01
No, you said the rich get 5% income tax reduction. So you conveniently and sneakily forgot about the tax reduction of the middle class and of course the lower class. You are twisting the facts. How low can you get?
Anyway, based on the example below, the rich does pay MORE income tax. Both in terms of % and in terms of quantum.
Yes you are right. I under-stated. In fact, the top income earners, the Ministers included, got a income tax cut of 13% since 1994! :tongue3:
And they have estate duty abolished as well, save even much more taxes! :p
Let's start calculating again: Earn $10m a year. Save 13% income tax means a tax savings of $1.3m a year! Wow! :scared-1:
Anybody would believe they pay $1.3m in GST a year? In order to pay $1.3m a year at a 7% GST rate, they need to spend $18.6m in 1 year! :doh:
thomastansb
22-04-13, 21:07
In theory, they pay more. I buy an iPhone once a year. Definitely, I will pay more GST as compared to someone who can't afford handphone. If you are focusing on quantum, then you have to admit that the rich pay more tax. If you are focusing on %, the rich pay more as well.
and there are some stupid idiots saying that the rich will pay more GST because they spend more? Can they earn $10m a year and spend $18.6m a year?! :tongue3:
And please note that they are the ones who started calling people idiots, so I just return them, furthermore my statement has been backed up with facts, not like theirs they have no facts to back up their statement! :tsk-tsk:
I have proved that they are indeed "IDIOTS"!
:doh::doh::doh:
Too bad! There is no cure for stupidity!
You are beyond hope!
In theory, they pay more. I buy an iPhone once a year. Definitely, I will pay more GST as compared to someone who can't afford handphone. If you are focusing on quantum, then you have to admit that the rich pay more tax. If you are focusing on %, the rich pay more as well.
In theory, they pay more. I buy an iPhone once a year. Definitely, I will pay more GST as compared to someone who can't afford handphone. If you are focusing on quantum, then you have to admit that the rich pay more tax. If you are focusing on %, the rich pay more as well.
aiyah dont waste time. some folks just like to keep jumping n jumping. n not get anything done or ignore all the positive stuff. lets move on.
I believed your can't run a business at all as you do not know how to calculate cost :D
Do you even know the criteria to charge GST?
Nvm, when you set up business, you will know...
Two clowns!
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
“Time after time, history demonstrates that when people don't want to believe something, they have enormous skills of ignoring it altogether.”
― Jim Butcher, Dead Beat
May be you can tell us how much tax reduction the middle income get since 1994. Did they get 13% tax reduction or more? If not, aren't you telling lies that the tax reduction benefits the middle income? :tongue3:
No, you said the rich get 5% income tax reduction. So you conveniently and sneakily forgot about the tax reduction of the middle class and of course the lower class. You are twisting the facts. How low can you get?
Anyway, based on the example below, the rich does pay MORE income tax. Both in terms of % and in terms of quantum.
May be you can tell us how much tax reduction the middle income get since 1994. Did they get 13% tax reduction or more? If not, aren't you telling lies that the tax reduction benefits the middle income? :tongue3:
Who cares abt ur argument? u keep hubbing on this. the rich have may ways to siam tax. u can tax the 25% they will move to hk or somewhere and siam the tax anyway. best way is still via consumption.
why u so jealous the rich make 10M mth? u should go work on it than just complain n complain.
wat a clown.
Ha ha! From the way you talk & carry yourself, & your knowledge (rather the lack of), I am sure I am I am much much richer than you & earn much more than you!
So I am calling the govt to tax me more, but only on my income! Why you so unhappy I ask gov to tax me & the rest of high income earners more? Because you get less income when they get tax more? They will pay you less is it? Think it make sense also... :p
Pls stop taxing the innocent who has no income! :tongue3:
Who cares abt ur argument? u keep hubbing on this. the rich have may ways to siam tax. u can tax the 25% they will move to hk or somewhere and siam the tax anyway. best way is still via consumption.
why u so jealous the rich make 10M mth? u should go work on it than just complain n complain.
wat a clown.
Ha ha! From the way you talk & carry yourself, & your knowledge (rather the lack of), I am sure I am I am much much richer than you & earn much more than you!
So I am calling the govt to tax me more, but only on my income! Why you so unhappy I ask gov to tax me & the rest of high income earners more? Because you get less income when they get tax more? They will pay you less is it? Think it make sense also... :p
Pls stop taxing the innocent who has no income! :tongue3:
TCSS :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
Taxing some people to give money to some other people system is here to stay.
We all know that if taxation can be individual, as in IRAS looks at EACH individual and decide how much to tax them, that will be the best system but where to find some many senior taxation people to execute that equitably and fairly?
Also, there is a political advantage to "give" people money, see how the auntie of our dear forummer is so eternally grateful to the government for the $350 per month taken from the tax of others ?
If we just remove the GST, how to find these grateful people who will confirm chop sign vote for the incumbent ?
This topic is not as simple as we present here la! There are many other issues linked.
I suggest we end the taxation discussion here - ok ?
Office Boy also know a bit of tax leh!
Haha!
DKSG
thomastansb
22-04-13, 23:04
What else can they do except to twist things?
Like chicken rice $3 got GST... :doh:
GST is only applicable for business earning above certain amount. 1M was the last figure I heard. Really TCSS.
5% tax reduction for the rich suddenly twist until don't know like what :banghead:
Yeah, the rich breathe cleaner air. The poor breathe lousier air :p
TCSS :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
You twisting things right? You mean the oil the hawkers use do not attract GST? You mean the oil distributor has less than $1m sales so don't need to pay GST? You mean the electricity, water etc the hawker uses exempted from GST because the hawker has less than $1m in sales? you don't know it is so easy for hawkers to hit >$1m in sales? :scared-1:
You are trying to tell us that the top earners did not get income tax reduction of 13% since 1994 & this is not a fact?
based on the above, we now know you are biggest liar here! :tongue3:
What else can they do except to twist things?
Like chicken rice $3 got GST... :doh:
GST is only applicable for business earning above certain amount. 1M was the last figure I heard. Really TCSS.
5% tax reduction for the rich suddenly twist until don't know like what :banghead:
Yeah, the rich breathe cleaner air. The poor breathe lousier air :p
hahaha....its ok la, she dont know about GST. thought uncle selling goreng pisang also can charge GST...move on...:)
What else can they do except to twist things?
Like chicken rice $3 got GST... :doh:
GST is only applicable for business earning above certain amount. 1M was the last figure I heard. Really TCSS.
5% tax reduction for the rich suddenly twist until don't know like what :banghead:
Yeah, the rich breathe cleaner air. The poor breathe lousier air :p
You mean the hawker uncle pays GST on his ingredients, water, electricity etc & then can't pass on these extra costs to you & he absorb them that is why he didn't/can't charge GST? You mean they cannot include GST costs in the nett price you are paying unless they explicitly say you need to pay extra 7% GST? Ok ok, that is a real good joke indeed & we all here is having a good laugh! :D
hahaha....its ok la, she dont know about GST. thought uncle selling goreng pisang also can charge GST...move on...:)
your children got go tuition? you have maid? two eg i think enough. So did your tuition teacher charge u GST? your maid got charge u GST? Dont just simply assume and then it become fact...anyway, enough said.
You mean the hawker uncle pays GST on his ingredients, water, electricity etc & then can't pass on these extra costs to you & he absorb them that is why he didn't/can't charge GST? You mean they cannot include GST costs in the nett price you are paying unless they explicitly say you need to pay extra 7% GST? Ok ok, that is a real good joke indeed & we all here is having a good laugh! :D
talkingcock
23-04-13, 08:18
Condensed from...
http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/the-tax-system-explained-in-beer/
The Tax System Explained in Beer
by Dan Mitchell
===============================================
Suppose ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3
The seventh would pay $7
The eighth would pay $12
The ninth would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.
“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20″. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
The bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
your children got go tuition? you have maid? two eg i think enough. So did your tuition teacher charge u GST? your maid got charge u GST? Dont just simply assume and then it become fact...anyway, enough said.
go ask the maid agency if they charge GST, don't just simply assume and then it become fact.
You civil servant? :doh:
Anyway! you are indeed ignorant about the cost components that you need to pay for your tuition/maid services!!!
There are may tuition centres charge you GST and you still don't know. Your private tutors increase tuition free every now and then for what?
儒子不可教也！
I worried our Singapore future with so many young cocks can't think and can't comprehend & little empathy...:banghead:
Is it a BIG failure in our education system? Our children are indoctrinated to accept the model answer so much so that can't think independently as they are not going through the thinking process...:beats-me-man:
Noticed that they are very good in quoting others (because can't think wa).
hahahah
your children got go tuition? you have maid? two eg i think enough. So did your tuition teacher charge u GST? your maid got charge u GST? Dont just simply assume and then it become fact...anyway, enough said.
You civil servant? :doh:
Anyway! you are indeed ignorant about the cost components that you need to pay for your tuition/maid services!!!
There are may tuition centres charge you GST and you still don't know. Your private tutors increase tuition free every now and then for what?
儒子不可教也！
I worried our Singapore future with so many young cocks can't think and can't comprehend & little empathy...:banghead:
Is it a BIG failure in our education system? Our children are indoctrinated to accept the model answer so much so that can't think independently as they are not going through the thinking process...:beats-me-man:
Noticed that they are very good in quoting others (because can't think wa).
hahahah
what a crock of bull leh.
go ask the maid agency if they charge GST, don't just simply assume and then it become fact.
The statement is did maid charge GST when being paid. answer is NO.
Condensed from...
http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/the-tax-system-explained-in-beer/
The Tax System Explained in Beer
by Dan Mitchell
===============================================
Suppose ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3
The seventh would pay $7
The eighth would pay $12
The ninth would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.
“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20″. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
The bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
This is a Good 1 !!! :):D :D :D
The beer example also shows that the rich benefit the most when there is a tax reduction.
The statement is did maid charge GST when being paid. answer is NO.
to hire the maid, the employer paid GST - to insurance company, to govt, to agency. while the maid didn't charge GST, the employer must incur GST costs to hire her services.
if you want to be your moronic self and quibble on a technicality, so be it.
thanks for making it clear....i say teacher they say tuition centre, i say maid they say maid agency...anyway, i see no point in discussing this with them. :o
I not sure they too young or wat....ever been to the Jurong fish market last time how they buy fish to sell in the wet market? ever go to pasir panjang to buy vege?? Ya, they charge u gst for the spring onion....and many more....:D
The statement is did maid charge GST when being paid. answer is NO.
Condensed from...
http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/the-tax-system-explained-in-beer/
The Tax System Explained in Beer
by Dan Mitchell
===============================================
Suppose ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3
The seventh would pay $7
The eighth would pay $12
The ninth would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.
“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20″. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
The bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
Very true and well said.
This is a Good 1 !!! :):D :D :D
:doh: :doh: :doh:
first you slam teddybear and now praise the example that supports his argument.
forgot you are unable to demonstrate any semblance of logic or coherence.
thanks for making it clear....i say teacher they say tuition centre, i say maid they say maid agency...anyway, i see no point in discussing this with them. :o
I not sure they too young or wat....ever been to the Jurong fish market last time how they buy fish to sell in the wet market? ever go to pasir panjang to buy vege?? Ya, they charge u gst for the spring onion....and many more....:D
a product or service isn't merely a static point but an endpoint from a chain of processes. from a business viewpoint, your argument is not valid.
to hire a maid, do you DIY or go through a maid agency? does the fishmonger pay GST on his rental?
As said in the article, do not tax the rich too much:
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
From the discussion above, I think GST is one of the greatest misunderstood tax. Those who disagree with Teddy on the $3 chicken rice example, do read up on IRAS website how GST works.
Any business, not just businesses with T/O > $1m, can register for GST. Registering for GST just means the business is a `collecting agent' on behalf of IRAS on the GST charged to the buyer or consumer. IT DOES NOT MEAN the costs of producing and delivering the plate of chicken rice do not have GST. Of coz all the `inputs' of the plate of chicken rice have components of GST. They are all costs of production.
Question is `can the chicken rice seller' off-set the GST he paid with the GST he CHARGED (thus the term `charge GST) to the buyer of the plate of chicken rice. GST is a consumption tax paid for consuming a product or service. The chicken rice seller do not consume the plate of rice but actually produces it.
Unless the seller says he `absorbed' GST. Otherwise, we pay GST for most of the goods and services we consume in Singapore.
what are you talking about??? i go public toilet i pay 10cents also incur GST?? I hire part-time maid for 10/hr also got GST? enough said. u slowly go and think about your GST....:cool:
a product or service isn't merely a static point but an endpoint from a chain of processes. from a business viewpoint, your argument is not valid.
to hire a maid, do you DIY or go through a maid agency? does the fishmonger pay GST on his rental?
what are you talking about??? i go public toilet i pay 10cents also incur GST?? I hire part-time maid for 10/hr also got GST? enough said. u slowly go and think about your GST....:cool:
wah piang eh, haven't i explained that your argument merely looks at the transaction as a single point?
to hire the cleaner - need to pay GST
to buy cleaning products - need to pay GST
utilities - need to pay GST
rent - need to pay GST
evidently you aren't familiar with pricing. GST is already embedded as part of the equation,
Total Costs + Y%profit = (Price of 1 unit of Product or Service) x Projected Volume
-> Price of 1 unit of Product or Service = (Total Costs + Y%profit)/Projected Volume
You are saying Singapore got items that are GST exempted? You mean the hawkers' food ingredients are GST exempted? If so, that must be the biggest lies we know. You trying to twist words and tell lies here in front of everybody? :tongue3:
Just like you are trying to tell people that Singapore's GST at 7% is so much lower than UK's VAT of 20%! Are they even comparable? As far as I know, to a middle income family, a UK VAT of 20% is equivalent to <1% of Singapore's GST! :rolleyes:
Been a silent reader all this while but find it interestin a thread in a property forum can develop into this.
We certainly do pay GST (knowingly or unknowingly) for a plate of chicken rice imo but i am more curious to find out why are you still hanging around in Spore if you tink the pasture is greener at the other side? (no political agenda here)
thomastansb
23-04-13, 11:39
The poor - Eat at hawker, buy at wet market. No GST, cheap.
The rich - Buy iPhone, eat at restaurant. Consumption tax, GST incurred.
The poor - Don't pay tax
The middle - Pay 10% tax.
The rich - Pay 20% tax.
If there is any adjustment to tax, the poor get more $$. The middle pay 5% lesser. The rich pay 5% lesser. Same rate. Quantum of course different (no brainer statement).
Some people proposed - The poor don't get $$. Middle class no tax. Rich high tax. So we have a half socialist, half communist system. The poor dies, the middle class earn 5k and get back 2.5k, the rich earn 100k and get back 2.8k.
It must be the fault of the rich people to be earning so much.
to hire the maid, the employer paid GST - to insurance company, to govt, to agency. while the maid didn't charge GST, the employer must incur GST costs to hire her services.
if you want to be your moronic self and quibble on a technicality, so be it.
so every mth i pay the maid she charge me GST? talk abt moronic. u are technically blind like Teddy.
The poor - Eat at hawker, buy at wet market. No GST, cheap.
The rich - Buy iPhone, eat at restaurant. Consumption tax, GST incurred.
The poor - Don't pay tax
The middle - Pay 10% tax.
The rich - Pay 20% tax.
If there is any adjustment to tax, the poor get more $$. The middle pay 5% lesser. The rich pay 5% lesser. Same rate. Quantum of course different (no brainer statement).
Some people proposed - The poor don't get $$. Middle class no tax. Rich high tax. So we have a half socialist, half communist system. The poor dies, the middle class earn 5k and get back 2.5k, the rich earn 100k and get back 2.8k.
It must be the fault of the rich people to be earning so much.
Aiyah they will tell u its not fair coz everyone wants to buy a iphone.
To a
low wage worker earn $1200 pm. Iphone is 79% of their salary
Middle income person $3000 pm. iPhone is 31% of their salary
High wage earner $10000pm. iPhone is 9% of their salary
A Wealthy say $1M pm . iphone is 0.00009% of their salary.
so its the fault of the iphone not being priced for the poor. or is the rich at fault? its favor the rich coz it sell to the rich cheap! It unfair to sell iphone so high to the poor!
:doh: :doh: :doh:
The beer example also shows that the rich benefit the most when there is a tax reduction.
the article also says "The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier."
the article also says "The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier."
relax and take a break.
my statement includes the word 'also'. it is impossible to miss the above. I just point out the other fact.
I find it very strange to debate on what the types of goods and services which are not GSTed.
I would thought that the beer example had closed the chapter. move on and discuss on other topics. :)
thomastansb
23-04-13, 12:56
When the rich pays a few million dollars worth of tax, no one complain it is a lot. Our tax system is already at 20/80. The top 20% pays 80% of the tax. You want top 10% pay 90% of the taxes, then are Singaporeans prepared to lose their jobs and take cuts in salary? Some might be prepared but I am not.
Aiyah they will tell u its not fair coz everyone wants to buy a iphone.
To a
low wage worker earn $1200 pm. Iphone is 79% of their salary
Middle income person $3000 pm. iPhone is 31% of their salary
High wage earner $10000pm. iPhone is 9% of their salary
A Wealthy say $1M pm . iphone is 0.00009% of their salary.
so its the fault of the iphone not being priced for the poor. or is the rich at fault? its favor the rich coz it sell to the rich cheap! It unfair to sell iphone so high to the poor!
:doh: :doh: :doh:
The poor want to withdraw 100 dollar, no sufficient fund
The rich want to withdraw 300 dollar, still left over a million dollar
http://www.businessinsider.com/image/51760863eab8ea5d69000012-960-720/532959_10151436364147800_1839825130_n.jpg
I already said before! When highest Singapore Tax rate was at 25%, we have already very attractive to tycoons from US, Australia, Russia, India etc...
There is no point to reduce from 25% 20% to enrich them further while there are many people struggling (bottom 11-40% as they dont receive handout from gov) to make end end to pay for the increase of GST.
When the rich pays a few million dollars worth of tax, no one complain it is a lot. Our tax system is already at 20/80. The top 20% pays 80% of the tax. You want top 10% pay 90% of the taxes, then are Singaporeans prepared to lose their jobs and take cuts in salary? Some might be prepared but I am not.
Now we all know you all are very good in twist and turn. :tsk-tsk:
Firstly you all started with Singapore GST 7% very low compared to eg UK VAT of 20%. After being pointed out that that is whole load of bullshit because UK VAT of 20% is equivalent to <1% of Singapore GST for middle income families (because all basic necessities exempted from VAT), you all started to argue many basic necessities and things in Singapore like hawker food got no GST. After that lose argument because how can hawker food's price be not inflated by GST when the electricity and water and gas alone they use to cook up the food are already subjected to GST? (we have to yet to include the other ingredients yet...)
Then you all start to say maid no GST. Tuition centre no GST. Wow really? Tuition centre no GST? :doh:
Maid no GST obviously because I got hit with $270 maid levy every month! And that is almost than 50% tax on my maid's salary! What is the 7% GST compared to this 50% maid levy tax?! You can ask govt to introduce GST to maid salary and remove that 50% maid levy tax? :tongue3:
The statement is did maid charge GST when being paid. answer is NO.
Why maid can charge GST? Is maid a business entity? You don't even know how GST is charged? :rolleyes:
The statement is did maid charge GST when being paid. answer is NO.
so every mth i pay the maid she charge me GST? talk abt moronic. u are technically blind like Teddy.
eh moron, the maid is a business???!!!!
eh moronic mongrel, why don't you suggest all of us, employees, start charging our employers 7% GST???!!!!
can't believe you are that blind to your errors
thomastansb
23-04-13, 13:53
What bullshit. I around 60% I also get GST rebate. Only the top don't get. Anyway, you don't say until the bottom 40% like earning $800 like this lah. Even the bottom 5% earn more than 2k a month ! That is in 2012 somemore. At 3k a month, it is at 24.2% only. That means more than 75% of people earn more than 3k a month.
Source - http://www.salary.sg/2012/compare-your-annual-income-latest/
Struggling to buy the latest S4, iPhone 5, going overseas trip is it? :tongue3:
I already said before! When highest Singapore Tax rate was at 25%, we have already very attractive to tycoons from US, Australia, Russia, India etc...
There is no point to reduce from 25% 20% to enrich them further while there are many people struggling (bottom 11-40% as they dont receive handout from gov) to make end end to pay for the increase of GST.
thomastansb
23-04-13, 13:57
Inflated hawker price? You got to the kidding me. $3 one plate, how "INFLATED" it can be...
Bottom 3% earn 2k a month. Don't tell me cannot afford $3 a plate. Not healthy enough, yong tau foo also $3. Not oily enough, carrot cake also $3. One day $10 x 30 days = $300.
Oh wait, I forget the rich earn 1M a year. $3 is nothing to them. It is their fault to be earning 1M a year. Even though they pay $200,000 of income tax while the one earning 2k a month pay $0 income tax.
Now we all know you all are very good in twist and turn. :tsk-tsk:
Firstly you all started with Singapore GST 7% very low compared to eg UK VAT of 20%. After being pointed out that that is whole load of bullshit because UK VAT of 20% is equivalent to <1% of Singapore GST for middle income families (because all basic necessities exempted from VAT), you all started to argue many basic necessities and things in Singapore like hawker food got no GST. After that lose argument because how can hawker food's price be not inflated by GST when the electricity and water and gas alone they use to cook up the food are already subjected to GST? (we have to yet to include the other ingredients yet...)
Then you all start to say maid no GST. Tuition centre no GST. Wow really? Tuition centre no GST? :doh:
Maid no GST obviously because I got hit with $270 maid levy every month! And that is almost than 50% tax on my maid's salary! What is the 7% GST compared to this 50% maid levy tax?! You can ask govt to introduce GST to maid salary and remove that 50% maid levy tax? :tongue3:
Let me quote you a story:
----------------------------
Once upon a time, there is a village. The village head controls the village, and employed the people to work for him, and the village head's position was passed down to his son/daughter for generation to generation.
Now now, the great-great grandfather of the village head previously came up with a tax scheme, that the rich were tax 40% progressively and were subjected to estate duty, while the poor and those with no income paid zero tax. Not only that, the village head dictated the pay he paid to the villagers that worked for him because he was the richest man in the village and he "create" jobs for the villagers!
However, when it came to don't know how many generation after, the new head started to think: "Not fair, how can the poor villagers now be able to afford so many things? Must be because I paid too much tax and they paid close to nothing while I paid them too well!".
So, after paying a princely sum for a group consultants to brainstorm, they came up with a "brilliant idea": "consumption tax" and "progressive tax on wealth"!
The new head said: "Wait a minute, progressive tax on wealth? What consumption tax? I definitely have much much much x10,000 more wealth and consume much much much x10,000 more than the ordinary villagers! You bloody idiots, you suggest to tax me more using these 2 schemes?!"
So, after another round of brainstorming, ah, the consultants come out with revised suggestions:
1) must abolish "estate duty" and
2) must reduce income tax when the consumption tax is introduced/raised, the reason being otherwise no other rich people (the new head included) will create jobs in the village!
The consultants also this time come out with exact figures to explain why: "You see, now this time you have ZERO estate duty tax, you got tax cut that is much much more than the consumption tax you need to pay! Furthermore if you consume lesser or go somewhere with no consumption tax to consume you pay even much less tax! The villagers are poor and can't go else where to consume to avoid these taxes, but you can! You also don't have to pay so much tax upfront because of significant reduction of your income tax!. So you see, you will benefit tremendously!".
The consultants continued: "Furthermore, you can collect even more taxes because the taxes are spreaded out to every villager, including those who does not work, new-born, young children, disabled, retired, unemployed, etc etc. Who cares? As long as they are breathing and have to eat and live they have to pay more taxes! The aging situation in your village is so bad that we expect your tax revenue collection to drop because less and less people working and hence you must find some way to increase your tax revenue! You won't want to increase your own income tax to make up for the short-fall don't you? Obviously you are the only few who can afford to pay much much more taxes! Anyway they won't feel as much pain as you because the taxes are spreaded out to everybody, every living humans, in the village now that each time you increase a little bit and you collect so much more tax!".
This time, the village head is immersely satisfied and proceed to introduce the new scheme!
So now, the consultants are being tasked to brain-wash the villagers into accepting the above the 2 schemes and the new head become even much much more richer than all the past generations of village heads and so much more happier as a result because he can afford so much more things and still save a lot of money because his income tax has been reduced much more than the consumption tax he needs to pay, and he can pass his wealth to his 1,000,000 future generations without being tax a single cent because no more "estate duty"!
Many years later, the consultants are really amazed to hear the oridinary woodhead villagers talking so good about the "consumption tax" and the "tax on wealth" : "Our new village head is so smart! He introduced new tax scheme to tax the rich so much less so that they are encouraged to come here to create jobs for us! Otherwise we will all be jobless! The tax on wealth and consumption tax actually taxes the village head more! He is so honourable to introduce these 2 tax schemes to tax himself more! Only those stupid idiots will say that the new tax scheme is bad for the ordinary folks like us"..................................
----------------------------
Condensed from...
http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/the-tax-system-explained-in-beer/
The Tax System Explained in Beer
by Dan Mitchell
===============================================
Suppose ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3
The seventh would pay $7
The eighth would pay $12
The ninth would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.
“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20″. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
The bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
talkingcock
23-04-13, 14:33
Let me quote you a story:
quoted from which source?
anyway, i am not here for a quarrel. i know i am not worthy with my low post count.
just bringing up something i read that is related to the discussion. i am terribly sorry if you feel it offended you.
Ujin, obviously you are not born-bread Singaporean and have a mind to look for greener pasture all the time. I also noticed that you registered just to post this! You see, I'm a born - bread Singaporean and All Singaporen have the right to question and debate our policies if we think it is a wrong policy. This is for the betterment of Singapore and I would like to see improvement. People like me have a great life in Singapore. The least thing that I wanted to see is most of our fellow citizen are struggling to make end meet. As you see, a hungry man is a angry man and this will affect our stability and my quality of life will then affected. Got it?
Been a silent reader all this while but find it interestin a thread in a property forum can develop into this.
We certainly do pay GST (knowingly or unknowingly) for a plate of chicken rice imo but i am more curious to find out why are you still hanging around in Spore if you tink the pasture is greener at the other side? (no political agenda here)
Ujin, obviously you are not born-bread Singaporean and have a mind to look for greener pasture all the time. I also noticed that you registered just to post this! You see, I'm a born - bread Singaporean and All Singaporen have the right to question and debate our policies if we think it is a wrong policy. This is for the betterment of Singapore and I would like to see improvement. People like me have a great life in Singapore. The least thing that I wanted to see is most of our fellow citizen are struggling to make end meet. As you see, a hungry man is a angry man and this will affect our stability and my quality of life will then affected. Got it?
I disagree fellow citizens are struggling to meet end needs due to GST. There are many other factors to it. I do not know of anyone who are in crisis after being imposed with GST.
Logically GST is a fair system, spend more pay more. So rich rightfully should tax more due to their spending power. But you know people spending pattern varies, there are rich who are thrifty and so do many average one who spent on luxuries.
Being humble and understand how GST works may help you clear some misunderstandings on the system.
I am not saying GST is flawless. It may be better if some daily necessity are excluded. But administratively it can be a nightmare.
It is definitely not as unfair as you mentioned.
eh moron, the maid is a business???!!!!
Oh maid is not business? U mean its charity? Dick!
I disagree fellow citizens are struggling to meet end needs due to GST. There are many other factors to it. I do not know of anyone who are in crisis after being imposed with GST.
Logically GST is a fair system, spend more pay more. So rich rightfully should tax more due to their spending power. But you know people spending pattern varies, there are rich who are thrifty and so do many average one who spent on luxuries.
Being humble and understand how GST works may help you clear some misunderstandings on the system.
I am not saying GST is flawless. It may be better if some daily necessity are excluded. But administratively it can be a nightmare.
It is definitely not as unfair as you mentioned.
i believe the general gripe is the burden being exacted upon the low wage or poor. after all, the rich or poor still takes 3 meals a day and a reasonable intake of food per meal. certainly, we are not gonna quibble about the rich enjoying lobsters while the poor eats dried shrimps. opponents of this regressive tax have long argued for the government to exclude basic neccessities from GST, but notion was rejected.
on top of that, teddy's taking the high moral ground, like warren buffet, suggesting to increase taxes for the rich.
Oh maid is not business? U mean its charity? Dick!
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Def. "maid" = domestic female servant, houseservant, a servant hired to do domestic work
did you even graduate from primary school? don't know the difference between a person and a business entity??
thanks for being the joke of the day again
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Def. "maid" = domestic female servant, houseservant, a servant hired to do domestic work
did you even graduate from primary school? don't know the difference between a person and a business entity??
thanks for being the joke of the day again
Wah here u go again try to goggle n wiki ur way out ? Wat rubbish . Do something new! I m getting bored!
You talk like a minister! Then, can you tell me why there are so much hatred n unhappiness everywhere about high cost of living nowadays. Gst is one of the contributor. You thought people like to vent their unhappiness for itching?
Minister, please analyse the situation and then 对症下药! A hungry man is an angry man. No point of doing lip-service here and tell us it has nothing to do with the high cost of living. The people is now smart enough to know how to do their sums and analyse their costs. I'm not too sure for some though
I disagree fellow citizens are struggling to meet end needs due to GST. There are many other factors to it. I do not know of anyone who are in crisis after being imposed with GST.
Logically GST is a fair system, spend more pay more. So rich rightfully should tax more due to their spending power. But you know people spending pattern varies, there are rich who are thrifty and so do many average one who spent on luxuries.
Being humble and understand how GST works may help you clear some misunderstandings on the system.
I am not saying GST is flawless. It may be better if some daily necessity are excluded. But administratively it can be a nightmare.
It is definitely not as unfair as you mentioned.
You talk like a minister! Then, can you tell me why there are so much hatred n unhappiness everywhere about high cost of living nowadays. Gst is one of the contributor. You thought people like to vent their unhappiness for itching?
Minister, please analyse the situation and then 对症下药! A hungry man is an angry man. No point of doing lip-service here and tell us it has nothing to do with the high cost of living. The people is now smart enough to know how to do their sums and analyse their costs. I'm not too sure for some though
无知是痛苦的根源。You have the right to continue barking on the wrong tree.
I am not an expert but I do know how GST works.
You know how GST works?
So you support GST to tax the poor, the retired, the new born, the young children, the unemployed, the disabled as long as they need to drink water, eat, live under a roof? Wow! No wonder people say Singaporeans got no empathy! :tongue3: I am very ashamed to be one here! I am sure I am the majority here while people like you are the minority! I can't believe people like you got no shame! :tsk-tsk:
无知是痛苦的根源。You have the right to continue barking on the wrong tree.
I am not an expert but I do know how GST works.
You know how GST works?
So you support GST to tax the poor, the retired, the new born, the young children, the unemployed, the disabled as long as they need to drink water, eat, live under a roof? Wow! No wonder people say Singaporeans got no empathy! :tongue3: I am very ashamed to be one here! I am sure I am the majority here while people like you are the minority! I can't believe people like you got no shame! :tsk-tsk:
here we go again with the age old bull...
Wah here u go again try to goggle n wiki ur way out ? Wat rubbish . Do something new! I m getting bored!
please, you flatter yourself. do we even need to google to know the definition of a maid? you make the stupid look good.
if maid = business :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
then I = Singapore MNC
You talk like a minister! Then, can you tell me why there are so much hatred n unhappiness everywhere about high cost of living nowadays. Gst is one of the contributor. You thought people like to vent their unhappiness for itching?
Minister, please analyse the situation and then 对症下药! A hungry man is an angry man. No point of doing lip-service here and tell us it has nothing to do with the high cost of living. The people is now smart enough to know how to do their sums and analyse their costs. I'm not too sure for some though
I think u are itching leh. u sound like u need a scratch. actually a angry man is a irrational man. a man than can only help himself if he stand up and do some real work instead of blaming the sun, moon, sky , god and the air.
please, you flatter yourself. do we even need to google to know the definition of a maid? you make the stupid look good.
if maid = business :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
then I = Singapore MNC
if maid ia not a business why are u hiring 1? to do charity?
Do you employ a maid? or u adopt a maid? or u befriend a maid? maybe u sian a maid?
if maid ia not a business why are u hiring 1? to do charity?
Do you employ a maid? or u adopt a maid? or u befriend a maid? maybe u sian a maid?
WHOA, this is like teaching a kid,
a maid = P-E-R-S-O-N
maid agency = B-U-S-I-N-E-S-S
so bangla construction workers are businesses, that's why construction firms hire them?????
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, let us see your PSLE cert
WHOA, this is like teaching a kid,
a maid = P-E-R-S-O-N
maid agency = B-U-S-I-N-E-S-S
so bangla construction workers are businesses, that's why construction firms hire them?????
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, let us see your PSLE cert
so there u go! maid no charge u GST! correct. blind boy!
so there u go! maid no charge u GST! correct. blind boy!
enough of repetition, employers incur GST costs just to hire the maid. prove this statement is wrong
eh moron, though this is a tall order but follow the thread of discussion. let me teach you,
1. take a dictionary
2. go to the last two pages
3. read
4. raise your hand and ask teacher if you don't understand
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
thomastansb
23-04-13, 16:59
Yeah, high costs of LIVING. iPhone, overseas trip, car etc. If the bottom 3% can earn 2k, then I would say it is a pretty good system so don't screw things up. If not, the bottom 30% earn 2k and below.
Anyway, Singaporeans complain about everything. Build an elderly homes, they also petition. Ask them to build somewhere else. The "somewhere else" residents also started a violent protest.
Build a childcare center, they go to the press and say it disrupt the peacefulness. And you are telling us about unhappiness???
Seems like Singaporeans are unhappy about everything, isn't it?
You always take the bottom few % and paint the scenario like 90% of Singaporeans are damn poor and the remaining 10% are super rich and taking advantage of the 90% poor people.
You talk like a minister! Then, can you tell me why there are so much hatred n unhappiness everywhere about high cost of living nowadays. Gst is one of the contributor. You thought people like to vent their unhappiness for itching?
Minister, please analyse the situation and then 对症下药! A hungry man is an angry man. No point of doing lip-service here and tell us it has nothing to do with the high cost of living. The people is now smart enough to know how to do their sums and analyse their costs. I'm not too sure for some though
thomastansb
23-04-13, 17:06
Talk to them also no use one lah. At first, they say chicken rice $3 include GST. I tell them above 1M then can charge GST. Then they say electricity also need GST. This GST crap started when I said "POOR PEOPLE CAN EAT AT HAWKER WITHOUT PAYING GST - WHILE THE RICH PAY GST AT RESTAURANT".
Whether the hawker need to pay GST or not, who cares. I only know most hawkers have $2.50 food. I attas a bit, go MBFC food court and pay $3.50 ONLY. Clementi still have $1.90 food. Bedok still have $2 food. We take $3 already give so much allowance. Anyway, the topic is about the poor being TAXED MORE. But in fact, the poor don't really get taxed as much as the rich. Because if you are poor, you should be eating at hawker, buy from wet market, no handphone, no luxury items etc. That means minimal GST.
The rich is different. They buy phones, cars, boats etc..
so there u go! maid no charge u GST! correct. blind boy!
You talk like a minister! Then, can you tell me why there are so much hatred n unhappiness everywhere about high cost of living nowadays. Gst is one of the contributor. You thought people like to vent their unhappiness for itching?
Minister, please analyse the situation and then 对症下药! A hungry man is an angry man. No point of doing lip-service here and tell us it has nothing to do with the high cost of living. The people is now smart enough to know how to do their sums and analyse their costs. I'm not too sure for some though
mr bear, it is very natural for human to complain and complain.. including myself...
in fact singaporeans are really good at complaining. they complain even though they are not really affected by the things around them... so dont get too over concern about this noise maker.. though there are sure to have some genunine case lah..
but of course there are some very gracious singaporeans too like most of the forumers here...
:p
Yeah, high costs of LIVING. iPhone, overseas trip, car etc. If the bottom 3% can earn 2k, then I would say it is a pretty good system so don't screw things up. If not, the bottom 30% earn 2k and below.
Anyway, Singaporeans complain about everything. Build an elderly homes, they also petition. Ask them to build somewhere else. The "somewhere else" residents also started a violent protest.
Build a childcare center, they go to the press and say it disrupt the peacefulness. And you are telling us about unhappiness???
Seems like Singaporeans are unhappy about everything, isn't it?
You always take the bottom few % and paint the scenario like 90% of Singaporeans are damn poor and the remaining 10% are super rich and taking advantage of the 90% poor people.
though generally true.. but still got a lot of gracious and appreciatiave singaporeans like you and the forumers here...
enough of repetition, employers incur GST costs just to hire the maid. prove this statement is wrong
eh moron, though this is a tall order but follow the thread of discussion. let me teach you,
1. take a dictionary
2. go to the last two pages
3. read
4. raise your hand and ask teacher if you don't understand
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
LOL.. is this all u are good at.? google. wiki and flip dicks? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I think there is a genuine complain here that:
1) it is absolutely wrong to tax people who has No income
2) It is even more wrong to purposely reduce the tax of the rich & then tax the poor even more!
Are you the type that complain only when it affects you otherwise you can't be bothered?
Luckily there still many righteous people in this world who will up & fight for unfairness even if they are not affected. But surely there are many ugly one like those we are seeing here, black try to twist to become white.
mr bear, it is very natural for human to complain and complain.. including myself...
in fact singaporeans are really good at complaining. they complain even though they are not really affected by the things around them... so dont get too over concern about this noise maker.. though there are sure to have some genunine case lah..
but of course there are some very gracious singaporeans too like most of the forumers here...
即已知道愚昧是痛苦的根源，还持续被窝在无知深处，
断除这个根源需要智慧, 莫待无花空折枝，回首已茫茫矣 :D
I'm afraid you don't quite understand how it works! :scared-3:
无知是痛苦的根源。You have the right to continue barking on the wrong tree.
I am not an expert but I do know how GST works.
即已知道愚昧是痛苦的根源，还持续被窝在无知深处，
断除这个根源需要智慧, 莫待无花空折枝，回首已茫茫矣 :D
I'm afraid you don't quite understand how it works! :scared-3:
固执让无知成愚昧。。谦卑自省自救吧！
felicia_sg
23-04-13, 20:47
Bottom 3% earn $2k a month? :scared-1:
Please be specific, is that individual or household? Is that basic pm or gross pm?
Irregardless, which ever you have meant also grossly inflated the figure.
If you want people to take what you say seriously, please make sure you get you facts right! It is so obvious that you are talking nonsense & plugging figures from the air just to support you lies! :doh:
The real hard truth is that: 9.2% of the households excluding unemployed & retirees households (please read carefully : HOUSEHOLD) has a gross income inclusive of employer CPF (please read carefully : GROSS including employer CPF) of <$2000 pm !
What is the significance of the figure? it means, the household can only have take home cash of only $1481.50 per month.
If there are 4 members in the family, means each of them only has $370.37 pm to spend! Wow! That amount to you is a lot? Yah right, $370.37 pm can buy 52 plates of chicken rice of $3 each a month, no wonder these people don't even have enough money to fill their stomach & have proper 3 meals a day! :banghead:
And we are hearing idiots like you saying more GST is OK for them? :rolleyes:
Inflated hawker price? You got to the kidding me. $3 one plate, how "INFLATED" it can be...
Bottom 3% earn 2k a month. Don't tell me cannot afford $3 a plate. Not healthy enough, yong tau foo also $3. Not oily enough, carrot cake also $3. One day $10 x 30 days = $300.
Oh wait, I forget the rich earn 1M a year. $3 is nothing to them. It is their fault to be earning 1M a year. Even though they pay $200,000 of income tax while the one earning 2k a month pay $0 income tax.
felicia_sg
23-04-13, 21:36
You raised a very valid point: the top 20% earners pay >80% of total taxes, really alarming!
But on deeper thought, why is this so? Could it really be because the top income earners, by virtue of their high authority, are under paying their subordinates by so much & over-paying themselves by way too too much? If this is the case, shouldn't we have a strong govt to correct this problem? That these people are tremendously enriching themselves & yet they refused to pay more tax & still have the cheek to demand cut in their taxes? :doh:
Instead of a strong govt to correct this problem, some are helping them to enrich themselves even more? :rolleyes:
When the rich pays a few million dollars worth of tax, no one complain it is a lot. Our tax system is already at 20/80. The top 20% pays 80% of the tax. You want top 10% pay 90% of the taxes, then are Singaporeans prepared to lose their jobs and take cuts in salary? Some might be prepared but I am not.
You are real sharp indeed!
This reminds me of what Warren Buffett previously said that in 1970s, CEO pay is only about 30x that of lowest rank worker. However, now CEO pay is 1,000 to >10,000x more than lowest rank worker. He questioned whether these CEOs now have 3 heads & 6 hands to demand such high multiples of salaries? If this is not GREED then what is it? :simmering:
So instead, he ask the govt to tax the rich more. But instead some gov are doing the opposite! :doh:
You raised a very valid point: the top 20% earners pay >80% of total taxes, really alarming!
But on deeper thought, why is this so? Could it really be because the top income earners, by virtue of their high authority, are under paying their subordinates by so much & over-paying themselves by way too too much? If this is the case, shouldn't we have a strong govt to correct this problem? That these people are tremendously enriching themselves & yet they refused to pay more tax & still have the cheek to demand cut in their taxes? :doh:
Instead of a strong govt to correct this problem, some are helping them to enrich themselves even more? :rolleyes:
Originally Posted by thomastansb
When the rich pays a few million dollars worth of tax, no one complain it is a lot. Our tax system is already at 20/80. The top 20% pays 80% of the tax. You want top 10% pay 90% of the taxes, then are Singaporeans prepared to lose their jobs and take cuts in salary? Some might be prepared but I am not.
Bottom 3% earn $2k a month? :scared-1:
Please be specific, is that individual or household? Is that basic pm or gross pm?
Irregardless, which ever you have meant also grossly inflated the figure.
If you want people to take what you say seriously, please make sure you get you facts right! It is so obvious that you are talking nonsense & plugging figures from the air just to support you lies! :doh:
The real hard truth is that: 9.2% of the households excluding unemployed & retirees households (please read carefully : HOUSEHOLD) has a gross income inclusive of employer CPF (please read carefully : GROSS including employer CPF) of <$2000 pm !
What is the significance of the figure? it means, the household can only have take home cash of only $1481.50 per month.
If there are 4 members in the family, means each of them only has $370.37 pm to spend! Wow! That amount to you is a lot? Yah right, $370.37 pm can buy 52 plates of chicken rice of $3 each a month, no wonder these people don't even have enough money to fill their stomach & have proper 3 meals a day! :banghead:
And we are hearing idiots like you saying more GST is OK for them? :rolleyes:
Helping the poor is good intention. But blaming on GST system is not helping them either. Removing it may reduces the poor's cost by merely 7% (e.g. $70 from $1000 monthly expenses) but there are much less taxes government can gain from the rich (e.g. $700 from $10,000 monthly expenses).
GST is fair for all consumers. It is whether you trust the government is helping the poor in coping with additional 7% cost on daily expenses.
Who are the "poor"? Can you define clear what is the definition of the "Poor"?
I think 80% of Singaporeans are all very poor because they earn less than $3800 pm! :rolleyes:
So how many % of these poor has the govt helped after increasing GST to 7%?
I only see that they had clearly & very swiftly helped the top few % rich to reduce their tax by 13%! This is a fact right? You want to clarify more on this fact? :tsk-tsk:
Helping the poor is good intention. But blaming on GST system is not helping them either. Removing it may reduces the poor's cost by merely 7% (e.g. $70 from $1000 monthly expenses) but there are much less taxes government can gain from the rich (e.g. $700 from $10,000 monthly expenses).
GST is fair for all consumers. It is whether you trust the government is helping the poor in coping with additional 7% cost on daily expenses.
I think there is a genuine complain here that:
1) it is absolutely wrong to tax people who has No income
2) It is even more wrong to purposely reduce the tax of the rich & then tax the poor even more!
Are you the type that complain only when it affects you otherwise you can't be bothered?
Luckily there still many righteous people in this world who will up & fight for unfairness even if they are not affected. But surely there are many ugly one like those we are seeing here, black try to twist to become white.
Well not necessary person with no income means poor.
felicia_sg
23-04-13, 22:17
Not poor mean can tax more even without income? The purpose is so that those who earn a lot & have authority to change the rule can pay much less tax? :simmering:
Then why abolish estate duty? It achieve what you say perfectly right? :rolleyes:
Well not necessary person with no income means poor.
You are real sharp indeed!
This reminds me of what Warren Buffett previously said that in 1970s, CEO pay is only about 30x that of lowest rank worker. However, now CEO pay is 1,000 to >10,000x more than lowest rank worker. He questioned whether these CEOs now have 3 heads & 6 hands to demand such high multiples of salaries? If this is not GREED then what is it? :simmering:
So instead, he ask the govt to tax the rich more. But instead some gov are doing the opposite! :doh:
Originally Posted by thomastansb
When the rich pays a few million dollars worth of tax, no one complain it is a lot. Our tax system is already at 20/80. The top 20% pays 80% of the tax. You want top 10% pay 90% of the taxes, then are Singaporeans prepared to lose their jobs and take cuts in salary? Some might be prepared but I am not.
sharp? lol.. more like twisted argument. So u start a company and u make good profit for the company u mean its not right that u took $ out on the venture the risk n idea and vision that the owner be paid? So am I right to hear we are asking for communist style? Yes to the death to any entrepreneurship?
Am I hearing all u confused mongers right?
Not poor mean can tax more even without income? The purpose is so that those who earn a lot & have authority to change the rule can pay much less tax? :simmering:
Then why abolish estate duty? It achieve what you say perfectly right? :rolleyes:
dont u know without estate duty the $ that goes to financial system is more.? indirectly there are tax from the financial systems to render the HNW parking their $ here. and transactions.
With that it also create a jobs for people to support such industry. in other words it create jobs.
Taxes should be directed at the rentier class. For they are the real "takers" from society, not the poor.
http://www.salon.com/2013/03/25/defeating_useless_rich_people/
sharp? lol.. more like twisted argument. So u start a company and u make good profit for the company u mean its not right that u took $ out on the venture the risk n idea and vision that the owner be paid? So am I right to hear we are asking for communist style? Yes to the death to any entrepreneurship?
Am I hearing all u confused mongers right?
nowadays, ceo usually not equal to owner.
teddy was talking about pay of ceo, not owner.
Bottom 3% earn $2k a month? :scared-1:
Please be specific, is that individual or household? Is that basic pm or gross pm?
Irregardless, which ever you have meant also grossly inflated the figure.
If you want people to take what you say seriously, please make sure you get you facts right! It is so obvious that you are talking nonsense & plugging figures from the air just to support you lies! :doh:
The real hard truth is that: 9.2% of the households excluding unemployed & retirees households (please read carefully : HOUSEHOLD) has a gross income inclusive of employer CPF (please read carefully : GROSS including employer CPF) of <$2000 pm !
What is the significance of the figure? it means, the household can only have take home cash of only $1481.50 per month.
If there are 4 members in the family, means each of them only has $370.37 pm to spend! Wow! That amount to you is a lot? Yah right, $370.37 pm can buy 52 plates of chicken rice of $3 each a month, no wonder these people don't even have enough money to fill their stomach & have proper 3 meals a day! :banghead:
And we are hearing idiots like you saying more GST is OK for them? :rolleyes:
Actually if u want to argue like u have the hard truth u should also not anyhow pull numbers out of the air.
taking ur assumption of 4 person per house hold. and still under 2K that . 4 X ( population earning between $400-$799). Tats is 3% of population today.
I am very liberal with the no. not taking the lower end statistics of people making less than $400 per mth.
http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/statistics-publications/yearbook12/mrsd_2012YearBook.pdf
Page G7
No one is asking to raise GST. the bear here is saying GST is unfair. I don't agree.
I also not agree in taxation without a cause. Taxing the Rich to make the less rich or poor feel more rich or less poor? thats works? Its not a crime to be rich. So cannot everything blame the Rich. Same as its not a crime to be poor either.
Its enabling the poor to arm themselves with skills to achieve what they want. If they become rich in future they should be made to feel that they have sinned becoz they worked for it.
nowadays, ceo usually not equal to owner.
teddy was talking about pay of ceo, not owner.
so company no CEO can function? Some shit happens who that the blame? the receptionist ?
Law suit. kana sue who go to jail?
Who are the "poor"? Can you define clear what is the definition of the "Poor"?
I think 80% of Singaporeans are all very poor because they earn less than $3800 pm! :rolleyes:
So how many % of these poor has the govt helped after increasing GST to 7%?
I only see that they had clearly & very swiftly helped the top few % rich to reduce their tax by 13%! This is a fact right? You want to clarify more on this fact? :tsk-tsk:
earn $3800pm is consider poor. LOL.... So I guess u are also the one complaining chicken rice $3 is expensive?
So by ur standard of no poor is? $6000 or $9000 a mth?
Then Chicken rice will be $8 $12 a plate. Coz someone have to pay for the labour cost.
Then wat next? chicken rice is $8 n $12 will become ur problem to argue again?
Who are the "poor"? Can you define clear what is the definition of the "Poor"?
I think 80% of Singaporeans are all very poor because they earn less than $3800 pm! :rolleyes:
So how many % of these poor has the govt helped after increasing GST to 7%?
I only see that they had clearly & very swiftly helped the top few % rich to reduce their tax by 13%! This is a fact right? You want to clarify more on this fact? :tsk-tsk:
Did u forget the poor dont pay tax too? and there are work fare? and there are tax reduction across the board?
Wow interesting!
That seems to go along with my suggestion: Tax those whose jobs & businesses cannot be moved overseas more!
Rein in the REITs, many controlled by GLCs!
But will we see that above happening? Think quite fat hope right? :banghead:
Taxes should be directed at the rentier class. For they are the real "takers" from society, not the poor.
http://www.salon.com/2013/03/25/defeating_useless_rich_people/
When shits hit, like the SMRT ex-CEO, just leave with after several years of fat fat salaries + bonuses lor! Who shoulder the responsibility and the consequences? :rolleyes:
so company no CEO can function? Some shit happens who that the blame? the receptionist ?
Law suit. kana sue who go to jail?
By my standard? $3800 pm is very poor.
$6000 pm still quite poor.
$9000 pm bearly made it!
Why I say so? Very simple: Look at the PM pay lor, $3.8m a year.
At $9000 pm, PM pay is 35x of this figure, so is about the pay of a lowest rank worker when compared to what Warren Buffett quoted that previously CEO pay is only about 30x that of lowest rank worker! :p
earn $3800pm is consider poor. LOL.... So I guess u are also the one complaining chicken rice $3 is expensive?
So by ur standard of no poor is? $6000 or $9000 a mth?
Then Chicken rice will be $8 $12 a plate. Coz someone have to pay for the labour cost.
Then wat next? chicken rice is $8 n $12 will become ur problem to argue again?
Why not we introduce work fare for civil servants like you so that we can pay you peanuts? :tsk-tsk:
May be you can tell us how much tax reduction across the board those people earning <$100k a year get since 1994 compared to the 13% tax cut that those who earn >$320k a year get? :rolleyes:
Did u forget the poor dont pay tax too? and there are work fare? and there are tax reduction across the board?
When shits hit, like the SMRT ex-CEO, just leave with after several years of fat fat salaries + bonuses lor! Who shoulder the responsibility and the consequences? :rolleyes:
here u go blind boy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/top-10-ceos-sent-to-prison_n_1527361.html
By my standard? $3800 pm is very poor.
$6000 pm still quite poor.
$9000 pm bearly made it!
Why I say so? Very simple: Look at the PM pay lor, $3.8m a year.
At $9000 pm, PM pay is 35x of this figure, so is about the pay of a lowest rank worker when compared to what Warren Buffett quoted that previously CEO pay is only about 30x that of lowest rank worker! :p
LOL u are 1 talk cock king.
thomastansb
23-04-13, 23:22
Hey fool, I already post the source. You can see for yourself. And of course, I mean 2k a month INDIVIDUAL. Household income is stupid right? How I know how many people staying together. Use your brain lah. I post the source of data, you don't want to see. And you are that stupid not to google for it. Lazy as well.
Bottom 3% earn $2k a month? :scared-1:
Please be specific, is that individual or household? Is that basic pm or gross pm?
Irregardless, which ever you have meant also grossly inflated the figure.
If you want people to take what you say seriously, please make sure you get you facts right! It is so obvious that you are talking nonsense & plugging figures from the air just to support you lies! :doh:
The real hard truth is that: 9.2% of the households excluding unemployed & retirees households (please read carefully : HOUSEHOLD) has a gross income inclusive of employer CPF (please read carefully : GROSS including employer CPF) of <$2000 pm !
What is the significance of the figure? it means, the household can only have take home cash of only $1481.50 per month.
If there are 4 members in the family, means each of them only has $370.37 pm to spend! Wow! That amount to you is a lot? Yah right, $370.37 pm can buy 52 plates of chicken rice of $3 each a month, no wonder these people don't even have enough money to fill their stomach & have proper 3 meals a day! :banghead:
And we are hearing idiots like you saying more GST is OK for them? :rolleyes:
Why not we introduce work fare for civil servants like you so that we can pay you peanuts? :tsk-tsk:
May be you can tell us how much tax reduction across the board those people earning <$100k a year get since 1994 compared to the 13% tax cut that those who earn >$320k a year get? :rolleyes:
maybe u should give ah Eng Eng a call to find out how to google or check wiki. pls go look up work fare.
nuf said.
felicia_sg
23-04-13, 23:31
Typical of minority twist and turn liar "artist" at work! :scared-1:
Let get back to what thomastb wrote:
If the bottom 3% can earn 2k, then I would say it is a pretty good system so don't screw things up. If not, the bottom 30% earn 2k and below.
But fact is, bottom 9.2% of the households excluding unemployed & retirees households has a gross income inclusive of employer CPF of <$2000 pm !
Now, you give us even more startling factual data from MOM http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/statistics-publications/yearbook12/mrsd_2012YearBook.pdf :
MOM 2012 year book says that 36.7% of the singapore workers earn <$2k pm!
Now, this figure of 36.7% is even worst than the 30% that thomastb quoted! So would thomastb admit now that Singaporeans are really very poor since it is now confirmed that bottom 36.7% of workers earn <$2k pm!!!
Now now, it is now true for me to say based on your provided data that 36.7% of singaporeans are very very poor because earning <$2k pm!!!
About 75% of singaporeans are still quite poor because earning <$4.5k pm!!!
What other facts you want to provide to us for us to scrutinize to prove that you are a even bigger liar again? :simmering:
Actually if u want to argue like u have the hard truth u should also not anyhow pull numbers out of the air.
taking ur assumption of 4 person per house hold. and still under 2K that . 4 X ( population earning between $400-$799). Tats is 3% of population today.
I am very liberal with the no. not taking the lower end statistics of people making less than $400 per mth.
http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/statistics-publications/yearbook12/mrsd_2012YearBook.pdf
Page G7
No one is asking to raise GST. the bear here is saying GST is unfair. I don't agree.
I also not agree in taxation without a cause. Taxing the Rich to make the less rich or poor feel more rich or less poor? thats works? Its not a crime to be rich. So cannot everything blame the Rich. Same as its not a crime to be poor either.
Its enabling the poor to arm themselves with skills to achieve what they want. If they become rich in future they should be made to feel that they have sinned becoz they worked for it.
Bottom 3% earn $2k a month? :scared-1:
Please be specific, is that individual or household? Is that basic pm or gross pm?
Irregardless, which ever you have meant also grossly inflated the figure.
If you want people to take what you say seriously, please make sure you get you facts right! It is so obvious that you are talking nonsense & plugging figures from the air just to support you lies! :doh:
The real hard truth is that: 9.2% of the households excluding unemployed & retirees households (please read carefully : HOUSEHOLD) has a gross income inclusive of employer CPF (please read carefully : GROSS including employer CPF) of <$2000 pm !
What is the significance of the figure? it means, the household can only have take home cash of only $1481.50 per month.
If there are 4 members in the family, means each of them only has $370.37 pm to spend! Wow! That amount to you is a lot? Yah right, $370.37 pm can buy 52 plates of chicken rice of $3 each a month, no wonder these people don't even have enough money to fill their stomach & have proper 3 meals a day! :banghead:
And we are hearing idiots like you saying more GST is OK for them? :rolleyes:
Yeah, high costs of LIVING. iPhone, overseas trip, car etc. If the bottom 3% can earn 2k, then I would say it is a pretty good system so don't screw things up. If not, the bottom 30% earn 2k and below.
Anyway, Singaporeans complain about everything. Build an elderly homes, they also petition. Ask them to build somewhere else. The "somewhere else" residents also started a violent protest.
Build a childcare center, they go to the press and say it disrupt the peacefulness. And you are telling us about unhappiness???
Seems like Singaporeans are unhappy about everything, isn't it?
You always take the bottom few % and paint the scenario like 90% of Singaporeans are damn poor and the remaining 10% are super rich and taking advantage of the 90% poor people.
felicia_sg
23-04-13, 23:40
Hey you fool! minority just posted the link to prove that you are a big big liar!!! What do you mean by only 3% individual earn <$2k a month?
According to the facts provided by MOM based on the link provided by minority, 36.7% of individual in Singapore earn <$2k a month!!!
So instead of only 3% individual earn <$2k a month, we have 36.7% of individual earning <$2k a month, so the system is much much more screw up than you imagined and expected! Need I say more? Or you going to twist and turn again and eat back your words that you wrote below? :tsk-tsk:
Hey fool, I already post the source. You can see for yourself. And of course, I mean 2k a month INDIVIDUAL. Household income is stupid right? How I know how many people staying together. Use your brain lah. I post the source of data, you don't want to see. And you are that stupid not to google for it. Lazy as well.
Typical of minority twist and turn liar "artist" at work!
Let get back to what thomastb wrote:
If the bottom 3% can earn 2k, then I would say it is a pretty good system so don't screw things up. If not, the bottom 30% earn 2k and below.
But fact is, bottom 9.2% of the households excluding unemployed & retirees households has a gross income inclusive of employer CPF of <$2000 pm !
Now, you give us even more startling factual data from MOM http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/statistics-publications/yearbook12/mrsd_2012YearBook.pdf :
MOM 2012 year book says that 36.7% of the singapore workers earn <$2k pm!
Now, this figure of 36.7% is even worst than the 30% that thomastb quoted! So would thomastb admit now that Singaporeans are really very poor since it is now confirmed that bottom 36.7% of workers earn <$2k pm!!!
Now now, it is now true for me to say based on your provided data that 36.7% of singaporeans are very very poor because earning <$2k pm!!!
About 75% of singaporeans are still quite poor because earning <$4.5k pm!!!
What other facts you want to provide to us for us to scrutinize to prove that you are a even bigger liar again?
Yeah, high costs of LIVING. iPhone, overseas trip, car etc. If the bottom 3% can earn 2k, then I would say it is a pretty good system so don't screw things up. If not, the bottom 30% earn 2k and below.
Anyway, Singaporeans complain about everything. Build an elderly homes, they also petition. Ask them to build somewhere else. The "somewhere else" residents also started a violent protest.
Build a childcare center, they go to the press and say it disrupt the peacefulness. And you are telling us about unhappiness???
Seems like Singaporeans are unhappy about everything, isn't it?
You always take the bottom few % and paint the scenario like 90% of Singaporeans are damn poor and the remaining 10% are super rich and taking advantage of the 90% poor people.
OMG not 80% of singaporean are poor?!!!!! so the bear is also a liar?
I state 3 % of population house hold u dumb ass. u are the one tat say 2K per household.
now u want to change goal post to 2K per person. make up ur mind before u jump allover the board like a stupid fly.
Typical of minority twist and turn liar "artist" at work! :scared-1:
Let get back to what thomastb wrote:
If the bottom 3% can earn 2k, then I would say it is a pretty good system so don't screw things up. If not, the bottom 30% earn 2k and below.
But fact is, bottom 9.2% of the households excluding unemployed & retirees households has a gross income inclusive of employer CPF of <$2000 pm !
Now, you give us even more startling factual data from MOM http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/statistics-publications/yearbook12/mrsd_2012YearBook.pdf :
MOM 2012 year book says that 36.7% of the singapore workers earn <$2k pm!
Now, this figure of 36.7% is even worst than the 30% that thomastb quoted! So would thomastb admit now that Singaporeans are really very poor since it is now confirmed that bottom 36.7% of workers earn <$2k pm!!!
Now now, it is now true for me to say based on your provided data that 36.7% of singaporeans are very very poor because earning <$2k pm!!!
About 75% of singaporeans are still quite poor because earning <$4.5k pm!!!
What other facts you want to provide to us for us to scrutinize to prove that you are a even bigger liar again? :simmering:
felicia_sg
23-04-13, 23:47
Please continue to twist and turn, and I will point out the lies all the way....
Now even civil servant like you are resorting to lying! Is many of you all like that? Hope not! Really hope you are the only minority! :doh:
OMG not 80% of singaporean are poor?!!!!! so the bear is also a liar?
I state 3 % of population house hold u dumb ass. u are the one tat say 2K per household.
now u want to change goal post to 2K per person. make up ur mind before u jump allover the board like a stupid fly.
thomastansb
23-04-13, 23:50
Hey lazy fool, here is the link again.
http://www.salary.sg/2012/compare-your-annual-income-latest/
Please continue to twist and turn, and I will point out the lies all the way....
Now even civil servant like you are resorting to lying! Is many of you all like that? Hope not! Really hope you are the only minority! :doh:
thomastansb
23-04-13, 23:54
Anyone that can buy a HDB is considered poor nowadays....
earn $3800pm is consider poor. LOL.... So I guess u are also the one complaining chicken rice $3 is expensive?
So by ur standard of no poor is? $6000 or $9000 a mth?
Then Chicken rice will be $8 $12 a plate. Coz someone have to pay for the labour cost.
Then wat next? chicken rice is $8 n $12 will become ur problem to argue again?
Don't you know that only poor people live in HDB? :p
Anyone that can buy a HDB is considered poor nowadays....
felicia_sg
24-04-13, 00:17
This website gives you inflated figure!
You rather trust some unknown website than Government's Ministry of Manpower released data?
http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/statistics-publications/yearbook12/mrsd_2012YearBook.pdf :doh:
You think MOM is lying that 36.7% of individuals in Singapore only earn <$2k per month? :hell-hath-no-fury:
Hey lazy fool, here is the link again.
http://www.salary.sg/2012/compare-your-annual-income-latest/
Please continue to twist and turn, and I will point out the lies all the way....
Now even civil servant like you are resorting to lying! Is many of you all like that? Hope not! Really hope you are the only minority! :doh:
Wat a crock of bull. civil servant? my ass. u mean u are the disgruntled civil servant?
BTW selective blindness have no cure.
Don't you know that only poor people live in HDB? :p
Well isnt some folks here also complain rich live in HDB? make up ur mind. :doh: :doh: :doh:
This website gives you inflated figure!
You rather trust some unknown website than Government's Ministry of Manpower released data?
http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/statistics-publications/yearbook12/mrsd_2012YearBook.pdf :doh:
You think MOM is lying that 36.7% of individuals in Singapore only earn <$2k per month? :hell-hath-no-fury:I supposed you have never study statistics before. You use a figure for a single year and make a conclusion :scared-1:
It is like a tourist came out from airport, see a mercedes car, so will say Singaporean bloody rich. While another tourist came out of airport and saw a Geely and say Singaporean bloody poor.
Pls look over the years, see the % of the low income.
Also, the classic half-filled glass. You can always choose to see the empty half and wack on it. Or you can view the full half and say good things. Pls enroll in some basic Stats 101 so that won't lose face here. Let me give you one more present:
面子是别人给的 脸是自己丢的
Those are the not rich enough ones? Don't you know? You see the rich like Kwek Leng Beng, Wee Cho Yaw, they live in HDB? :p
Well isnt some folks here also complain rich live in HDB? make up ur mind. :doh: :doh: :doh:
thomastansb
24-04-13, 00:59
According to you, all are poor. Except the top 1% and the ministers. We should tax them 99% because even after taxing them, they still have more than the lowest income earner.
$3 chicken rice also too ex btw :doh:. Need to pay GST also.
Those are the not rich enough ones? Don't you know? You see the rich like Kwek Leng Beng, Wee Cho Yaw, they live in HDB? :p
http://www.salary.sg/2012/compare-your-annual-income-latest/
Note that residents earning $20k and below do not pay tax. Hence they are not included in the above comparison.
10 Responses to “Compare Your Annual Income (latest)”
Joe Says:
June 18th, 2012 at 10:27 am (http://www.salary.sg/2012/compare-your-annual-income-latest/#comment-15189) Dear Sir,
My salary is $2k a month, $24k a year. Shockingly,my result is I’m better off than only 3.2%. But I realised in your notes that people who earn $20k and below are not included. There are many people earning less than $2k a month. So what is the percentage of people earning less than $20k a year? I figure that more than 40% of workers don’t pay income tax.
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page04.aspx?id=1190
Please continue to twist and turn, and I will point out the lies all the way....
Now even civil servant like you are resorting to lying! Is many of you all like that? Hope not! Really hope you are the only minority! :doh:
don't bother, he doesn't have sufficient grey matter to process even primary school grade stuff. just let him continue posting nonsense and be the joke of our days
to him, a maid = business entity :doh: :doh: :doh:
By my standard? $3800 pm is very poor.
$6000 pm still quite poor.
$9000 pm bearly made it!
Why I say so? Very simple: Look at the PM pay lor, $3.8m a year.
At $9000 pm, PM pay is 35x of this figure, so is about the pay of a lowest rank worker when compared to what Warren Buffett quoted that previously CEO pay is only about 30x that of lowest rank worker! :p
After all this arguments on how GST affects the poor...so you are trying to help poor of these levels? I think too highly of you.
Why compare with PM, what not with these billionairs in SG? That will make your life miserable to the fullest.
http://www.forbes.com/singapore-billionaires/
Squall8888
24-04-13, 13:49
That is why I said this red eye jealousy filled guy has political agenda. His main message is to condemn the Government for:-
1) High ministerial salary
2) Not doing a good job (by attacking that poor are not taken care of)
3) Charging GST and which impact his own pocket
You think this guy genuinely want to help the poor? Of course, he flatly denied that but his messages tell it all.
After all this arguments on how GST affects the poor...so you are trying to help poor of these levels? I think too highly of you.
Why compare with PM, what not with these billionairs in SG? That will make your life miserable to the fullest.
http://www.forbes.com/singapore-billionaires/
...Why compare with PM, what not with these billionairs in SG? That will make your life miserable to the fullest.
http://www.forbes.com/singapore-billionaires/
WAHLAUEH !
Good brother bsslang! It is not the intention of my family to make you miserable leh :(
WAHLAUEH !
Good brother bsslang! It is not the intention of my family to make you miserable leh :(
I am saddened that our family are making you guys miserable :(
blackjack21trader
24-04-13, 14:07
SIGH... 2 siaolangs above hallucinating that they are billioanires while I am the real one leh ....SIGH.....
WAHLAUEH !
Good brother bsslang! It is not the intention of my family to make you miserable leh :(
Not me, I am happy even though my income is only a small fraction of PM's pay. I am happy for you too.
blackjack21trader
24-04-13, 14:12
Not me, I am happy even though my income is only a small fraction of PM's pay. I am happy for you too.
Thanks ! Good brother :) I was just teasing you la. I know it was just a figure of speech (wink wink )
Just ignore those 2 crappy guys.
SIGH... 2 siaolangs above hallucinating that they are billioanires while I am the real one leh ....SIGH.....
Double SIGH........
i'm but only a little he bi, watching 2 siaolangs hallucinating that they are billionaires and one claiming to be.
Wow interesting!
That seems to go along with my suggestion: Tax those whose jobs & businesses cannot be moved overseas more!
Rein in the REITs, many controlled by GLCs!
But will we see that above happening? Think quite fat hope right? :banghead:
So u mean increasing TAX on REITs won't also push inflation up as tax increase get embeded into the rental? Then it get pass to goods Cost. Then will u be screaming its tax inclusive in ur goods too???
thomastansb
24-04-13, 14:25
He will also close both eyes and say "NO, THERE ISN'T ANY WORKFARE !!!!!!!"
Then what is my auntie collecting?
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/cpf_trans/ssl/financial_model/wis/wis_calc.asp
That is why I said this red eye jealousy filled guy has political agenda. His main message is to condemn the Government for:-
1) High ministerial salary
2) Not doing a good job (by attacking that poor are not taken care of)
3) Charging GST and which impact his own pocket
You think this guy genuinely want to help the poor? Of course, he flatly denied that but his messages tell it all.
thomastansb
24-04-13, 14:28
Everything is closely related. Every action has pros and cons. Singapore just make decisions that have more pros than cons. Sadly, people focus on the cons and ignore the pros that come with it.
Chicken price up, your chicken rice also go up. Then he will ask Singapore to go back to farming industry.
So u mean increasing TAX on REITs won't also push inflation up as tax increase get embeded into the rental? Then it get pass to goods Cost. Then will u be screaming its tax inclusive in ur goods too???
bsslang, you still have not answered this?
It's insulting my intelligent level to answer those clowns here...
Who are the "poor"? Can you define clear what is the definition of the "Poor"?
I think 80% of Singaporeans are all very poor because they earn less than $3800 pm! :rolleyes:
So how many % of these poor has the govt helped after increasing GST to 7%?
I only see that they had clearly & very swiftly helped the top few % rich to reduce their tax by 13%! This is a fact right? You want to clarify more on this fact? :tsk-tsk:
Sigh! You described yourself very well in your own Chinese phrase below. :doh:
I throw the best and most current statistic data from MOM.
Next, you have to ask yourself whether the 2011 data and before are better or worst off than 36.7% for individuals in Singapore only earn <$2k per month?.
The answer is obvious! :p
I supposed you have never study statistics before. You use a figure for a single year and make a conclusion :scared-1:
It is like a tourist came out from airport, see a mercedes car, so will say Singaporean bloody rich. While another tourist came out of airport and saw a Geely and say Singaporean bloody poor.
Pls look over the years, see the % of the low income.
Also, the classic half-filled glass. You can always choose to see the empty half and wack on it. Or you can view the full half and say good things. Pls enroll in some basic Stats 101 so that won't lose face here. Let me give you one more present:
面子是别人给的 脸是自己丢的
Interesting read
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20130308-407187.html
http://forums.condosingapore.com/images/icons/favicon.gif
Let me quote you a story:
----------------------------
Once upon a time, there is a village. The village head controls the village, and employed the people to work for him, and the village head's position was passed down to his son/daughter for generation to generation.
Now now, the great-great grandfather of the village head previously came up with a tax scheme, that the rich were tax 40% progressively and were subjected to estate duty, while the poor and those with no income paid zero tax. Not only that, the village head dictated the pay he paid to the villagers that worked for him because he was the richest man in the village and he "create" jobs for the villagers!
However, when it came to don't know how many generation after, the new head started to think: "Not fair, how can the poor villagers now be able to afford so many things? Must be because I paid too much tax and they paid close to nothing while I paid them too well!".
So, after paying a princely sum for a group consultants to brainstorm, they came up with a "brilliant idea": "consumption tax" and "progressive tax on wealth"!
The new head said: "Wait a minute, progressive tax on wealth? What consumption tax? I definitely have much much much x10,000 more wealth and consume much much much x10,000 more than the ordinary villagers! You bloody idiots, you suggest to tax me more using these 2 schemes?!"
So, after another round of brainstorming, ah, the consultants come out with revised suggestions:
1) must abolish "estate duty" and
2) must reduce income tax when the consumption tax is introduced/raised, the reason being otherwise no other rich people (the new head included) will create jobs in the village!
The consultants also this time come out with exact figures to explain why: "You see, now this time you have ZERO estate duty tax, you got tax cut that is much much more than the consumption tax you need to pay! Furthermore if you consume lesser or go somewhere with no consumption tax to consume you pay even much less tax! The villagers are poor and can't go else where to consume to avoid these taxes, but you can! You also don't have to pay so much tax upfront because of significant reduction of your income tax!. So you see, you will benefit tremendously!".
The consultants continued: "Furthermore, you can collect even more taxes because the taxes are spreaded out to every villager, including those who does not work, new-born, young children, disabled, retired, unemployed, etc etc. Who cares? As long as they are breathing and have to eat and live they have to pay more taxes! The aging situation in your village is so bad that we expect your tax revenue collection to drop because less and less people working and hence you must find some way to increase your tax revenue! You won't want to increase your own income tax to make up for the short-fall don't you? Obviously you are the only few who can afford to pay much much more taxes! Anyway they won't feel as much pain as you because the taxes are spreaded out to everybody, every living humans, in the village now that each time you increase a little bit and you collect so much more tax!".
This time, the village head is immersely satisfied and proceed to introduce the new scheme!
So now, the consultants are being tasked to brain-wash the villagers into accepting the above the 2 schemes and the new head become even much much more richer than all the past generations of village heads and so much more happier as a result because he can afford so much more things and still save a lot of money because his income tax has been reduced much more than the consumption tax he needs to pay, and he can pass his wealth to his 1,000,000 future generations without being tax a single cent because no more "estate duty"!
Many years later, the consultants are really amazed to hear the oridinary woodhead villagers talking so good about the "consumption tax" and the "tax on wealth" : "Our new village head is so smart! He introduced new tax scheme to tax the rich so much less so that they are encouraged to come here to create jobs for us! Otherwise we will all be jobless! The tax on wealth and consumption tax actually taxes the village head more! He is so honourable to introduce these 2 tax schemes to tax himself more! Only those stupid idiots will say that the new tax scheme is bad for the ordinary folks like us"..................................
----------------------------
Another interesting read
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/budget-2013-income-tax-rebates-both-individuals-and-companies-20130225
Read this
http://news.xin.msn.com/en/singapore/budget-2013-govt-to-spend-sdollar17b-to-help-households-cope-with-rising-cost-of-living
Another read
http://news.xin.msn.com/en/singapore/extra-gst-voucher-sandc-and-income-tax-rebates-lower-maid-levy-to-cope-with-cost-of-living-1
Actually, I am not so in tuned with all this until u guys brought it up and I started googling....:D
bsslang, you still have not answered this?
It's insulting my intelligent level to answer those clowns here...
We are in different frequency. My poor are those who are struggling with basic necessities and cannot own a home and has to rent one.
I am one of the 80% poor Singaporean in your definition. I am not rich but I am definitely not poor.
Let me quote you a story:
So teddybear is suggesting to return to estate tax and raised income tax in favour of GST.
If you accumulated hard earn money of exceeding $600K, you want to get tax again meh..by then you will also curse and swear in your coffin: "why double tax me and take those money for my children"...
And your income tax will grow from 20%-25%. Isn't it a lump sum of GST... LPPL.
Even if the riches wish to pass their fortune to their decents, then be it. It isn't your money.
Think he made his maid do side-business with him, hence his maid is doing "business"? Obviously this kind of side-business nobody pay GST!
don't bother, he doesn't have sufficient grey matter to process even primary school grade stuff. just let him continue posting nonsense and be the joke of our days
to him, a maid = business entity :doh: :doh: :doh:
Double SIGH........
i'm but only a little he bi, watching 2 siaolangs hallucinating that they are billionaires and one claiming to be.
dun b like that la, good brother. What "shrimp" ?
u know this blackjack is the most boastful, arrogant, detestable human ever alive on Planet Earth leh.
he tok cork sing song la. his uncle is the real billionaire la, he is only a "billions-air" la
woahahaahhahahahhahahahha
blackjack21trader
24-04-13, 19:47
dun b like that la, good brother. What "shrimp" ?
u know this blackjack is the most boastful, arrogant, detestable human ever alive on Planet Earth leh.
he tok cork sing song la. his uncle is the real billionaire la, he is only a "billions-air" la
woahahaahhahahahhahahahha
SI GIN NA.
I am saddened that our family are making you guys miserable :(
we dont feel miserable. I am happy to be the poor like crazy teddy is calling all of us. but I guess u are making feel miserable due to their low self esteem.
this idiotic blackjack thought he darn handsome. last time i tell you, he tried to go after a famous TCS actress la.
People also dun like him. He kept asking her out and even went as far as to gift her a stupid extra scarf which he overbought for all his girlfriends on a Hong Kong trip la.
CHIOKAPENG LA... WOAHAHAHEHHEHEHEHEHHEHEH
he drove so many different sports cars to TCS to woo this actress which was so many years older than him until someone in TCS cannot tahan and asked him if he is a car valet lor.
sibeh THICK SKIN ONE I tell you. kena rejected so many time also dunno. Kept telling me that actress was trying to play hard to get.
PUI ARHHHHHH!
WOAHAHAHHEHEHEHEHEHHEHEH
In one function at the Peak, this one many billionaires also know about it.
He boasted so much about his look that one TVB actress cannot tahan and praised that he look like a horse la.
You know what he asked her? He asked her if a horse meant he was handsome like a horse.
The actress said no la.....a horse has eyes on opposite side of its head that is why cannot know itself ugly leh...
The whole room bursted out laughing la....NABeh... this blackjack can still laugh with everyone and asked everyone to cheer.
SIBEH THICK SKIN LA.
WOAHAHHEHEHEHEHEHEHHEH
blackjack21trader
24-04-13, 20:16
Leo Cheng, out with it, who paid you?
on the outside, act so gentleman and serious.
inside the mind like a can of worms lor.
WOAAHHEHEHEHEHHEHEHEHEH
Pls read the latest report by Orange Tee on Singapore property market. You will know why people bought properties in the last couple years. :D
blackjack21trader
24-04-13, 21:48
Pls read the latest report by Orange Tee on Singapore property market. You will know why people bought properties in the last couple years. :D
good brother, why let the rabbit out of the hat ;)
hehehehhehehehhehehehehhe
like that no fun liao leh.....
last time in VJC, a pretty sister ever splash a glass of coke onto the face of a laughing uncle blackjack. this blackjack kept laughing although the poor sister was crying already!
totally siao lang, this blackjack.
those are donkey years stories liao. u wanna know more recent ones? a leopard never change its spots, as the saying goes.
good brother, why let the rabbit out of the hat ;)
hehehehhehehehhehehehehhe
like that no fun liao leh.....Good brother BJ! Your postings always make me laugh, a good break from the usual childish arguments here. :p
good brother, why let the rabbit out of the hat ;)
hehehehhehehehhehehehehhe
like that no fun liao leh.....
Bro BJ
u dont let rabbit out of the hat? oh no!
Crazy Ted will say
The rabbit represent the poor. Confined to live in a small hat! Paying most of the taxes and dues. You are the Rich who make benefit from the rabbit enjoying the good life and have a hat but never have to wear it. Now even the rabbit is put in side ur hat!. You are indeed the oppressing power causing undue suffering of the rabbit in the hat!
Following that Crazy Ted will tell u a super long story of the Rabbit with a HAT that was in a HAT the live with many HATs and a HAT that was made to work for that rabbit. which u donno why u bother to even read the super long story in the 1st place.
eng eng123 will say
You are a Moron. don't you know what a Hat is? H _ A _ T. How to spell a hat? HAT is for put on head not put rabbit in it. Dont u understand what HAT is for? follow by WIKI you the HAT and check dictionary the HAT meaning.
Then
PMS felica will say
How many % of the Rabbit is in the Hat? 37.5% or 57.3%? Is that 4 rabbit in the HAT. Dont you know rabbit in HAT earn less than $<2K? wait was it a rabbit or 4 rabbit. Aiya all in HAT dont care. PMS anyway why argue. Coz u are a liar and twister. coz there was no RABBIT! if not why u dont let the rabbit out! Liar.
In the End u will be standing there with a HAT wondering wat happen? its just a HAT. u had a rabbit who u are taking care of who needed the HAT to sleep in.
:D :D :D :D :D
opps forgot is there a maid , chicken rice and a minster also in the HAT btw?
So teddybear is suggesting to return to estate tax and raised income tax in favour of GST.
If you accumulated hard earn money of exceeding $600K, you want to get tax again meh..by then you will also curse and swear in your coffin: "why double tax me and take those money for my children"...
And your income tax will grow from 20%-25%. Isn't it a lump sum of GST... LPPL.
Even if the riches wish to pass their fortune to their decents, then be it. It isn't your money.
Aiyah when that happen will be KPKB another thing liao. best he should go to some ice berg in Alaska live there. no government no people.
nothing 1. bestest. no tax , no GST, no hazy, no nothing , no work fare. but then he will complain other things like ice berg too pointy the polar bear there too big. why white polar bear not brown. where are the fish etc.
Nowsaday seem like civil servant too well paid is it? And very free some more! Paid too well and too little to do like you? :doh:
And did you just come out from IMH with consultation charges at tax-payers' expense? :simmering:
Aiyah when that happen will be KPKB another thing liao. best he should go to some ice berg in Alaska live there. no government no people.
nothing 1. bestest. no tax , no GST, no hazy, no nothing , no work fare. but then he will complain other things like ice berg too pointy the polar bear there too big. why white polar bear not brown. where are the fish etc.
thomastansb
24-04-13, 23:30
You sounded more like one. Chicken rice $3 need to pay GST :)
Nowsaday seem like civil servant too well paid is it? And very free some more! Paid too well and too little to do like you? :doh:
And did you just come out from IMH with consultation charges at tax-payers' expense? :simmering:
Extra GST voucher, S&C & income tax rebates, lower maid levy to cope with cost of living in Budget 2013
All these are as good as govt. confessed that they also think an increase in cost of living and thus provided all the bonus/goodies for Singapore to cope! :D
Actually, I am not so in tuned with all this until u guys brought it up and I started googling....:D
Your master already said that cost of living is high in Singapore! Who paid your salary?
You sounded more like one. Chicken rice $3 need to pay GST :)
Nowsaday seem like civil servant too well paid is it? And very free some more! Paid too well and too little to do like you? :doh:
And did you just come out from IMH with consultation charges at tax-payers' expense? :simmering:
another blind bat? u and eng eng came out same mental institution. Which hallucination of urs say I civil servant?
I no job. I am siting ard waiting for free dough. waiting for u to delivery me free french bread and free wine.! without GST of course!
Nowsaday seem like civil servant too well paid is it? And very free some more! Paid too well and too little to do like you? :doh:
And did you just come out from IMH with consultation charges at tax-payers' expense? :simmering:
I think seems like have been not doing shit waiting ard for freebiz to fall from sky. wait and cannot wait. realizing that there are no free lunch and now panic have to KPKB try to get more sheep of same fur to black mail the state?
I think u too free. and too desperate too selfish too self centered.
No, you are wrong.
I am suggesting that they shouldn't even cut the top earners' income tax in the first place! I believe that if you earn more, you should get tax more. If you earn nothing, you shouldn't get tax. However, the current situation is that the top earners' income tax got cut by 13% and GST has been raised by 7% to cover the short-fall because the top earners get to save a lot more taxes than the GST taxes that they will pay. So, where does all these extra GST taxes mostly come from in order to make up for the shortfall due to the net tax cut for the top income earners? The answer is very obvious. Any layman with the right sense of mind would understand very well. Those who don't, well, we know....... :rolleyes:
So teddybear is suggesting to return to estate tax and raised income tax in favour of GST.
If you accumulated hard earn money of exceeding $600K, you want to get tax again meh..by then you will also curse and swear in your coffin: "why double tax me and take those money for my children"...
And your income tax will grow from 20%-25%. Isn't it a lump sum of GST... LPPL.
Even if the riches wish to pass their fortune to their decents, then be it. It isn't your money.
All the extras that they receive is only a portion of what they had already made to come out from the own pocket. So what to thank? :doh:
just do a simple calculation: 4-room flat household get max $1500 (most don't get the max figure). With medium household income of about $5xxx pm, and they probably spend almost all of their income say $5000 pm on whole family expenses, that will include extra $3925 paid as 7% GST taxes. They pay $3925 as GST taxes a year and get back $1500 in 2013 (this is not every year goodie but GST taxes must be paid every year)! Obviously still luggie! :p
if they don't need to pay 7% GST, then they will earn back $3925 every year instead of incurring extra taxes of $2425 (less tax just this year only!) and back to $3925 in subsequent YEARS! :o
Extra GST voucher, S&C & income tax rebates, lower maid levy to cope with cost of living in Budget 2013
All these are as good as govt. confessed that they also think an increase in cost of living and thus provided all the bonus/goodies for Singapore to cope! :D
No, you are wrong.
I am suggesting that they shouldn't even cut the top earners' income tax in the first place! I believe that if you earn more, you should get tax more. If you earn nothing, you shouldn't get tax. However, the current situation is that the top earners' income tax got cut by 13% and GST has been raised by 7% to cover the short-fall because the top earners get to save a lot more taxes than the GST taxes that they will pay. So, where does all these extra GST taxes mostly come from in order to make up for the shortfall due to the net tax cut for the top income earners? The answer is very obvious. Any layman with the right sense of mind would understand very well. Those who don't, well, we know....... :rolleyes:
talk cock again.. taking the IRAS tax from 2012 to 2006
in fact the highest % gain from the reduction are the low income. with middle income getting 17% reduction and top earners get 5% . The lower income get more coz there is workfare given out too. talk cock sing song. again.
2012 2011-2007 2006 % reduced
First $20,000 0 0 0 0%
Next $10,000 2 3.5 3.75 47%
First $30,000
Next $10,000 3.5 5.5 5.75 39%
First $40,000
Next $40,000 7 8.5 8.75 20%
First $80,000
Next $40,000 11.5 14 14.5 21%
First $120,000
Next $ 40,000 15 14 18 17%
First $160,000
Next $ 40,000 17 17 18 6%
First $320,000
Above $320,000 20 20 21 5%
I don't debate with clowns whose competency level are <PSLE level. :tsk-tsk:
blackjack21trader
25-04-13, 08:11
Good brother BJ! Your postings always make me laugh, a good break from the usual childish arguments here. :p
It is my pleasure to make people laugh, good brother :)
Although I have to agree the language used in the arguments a bit childish, but the exchanges between teddybear and minority really makes me think a lot about these issues that were raised.
Some of them can be very legitimate although so childish :P
blackjack21trader
25-04-13, 08:13
It is my pleasure to make people laugh, good brother :)
Although I have to agree the language used in the arguments a bit childish, but the exchanges between teddybear and minority really makes me think a lot about these issues that were raised.
Some of them can be very legitimate although so childish :P
As a matter of fact, I have a very vague idea forming in my enlightened brain from reading their debate on what could happen in say 40 or 50 years down the road.
By then.....I will be in another dimension liao la.
blackjack21trader
25-04-13, 08:17
As a matter of fact, I have a very vague idea forming in my enlightened brain from reading their debate on what could happen in say 40 or 50 years down the road.
By then.....I will be in another dimension liao la.
I dare to say, my brain is better than Einstein's.
I can do "experiments" in my brain just like him.
It is like seeing the various forces ( as mentioned by teddybear and minority ) reacting with each other on my holistic plane from above the ground. And I could jolly well see the result in my brain like a movie.
Guess that is why some say I am a mental case.
blackjack21trader
25-04-13, 08:19
I dare to say, my brain is better than Einstein's.
I can do "experiments" in my brain just like him.
It is like seeing the various forces ( as mentioned by teddybear and minority ) reacting with each other on my holistic plane from above the ground. And I could jolly well see the result in my brain like a movie.
Guess that is why some say I am a mental case.
My brain I dare say is better than Einstein because it was subjected to the worse kind of abuse when I was a kid. I had brain seizures many times. I think that sort of re-wired the electrical pulses inside it.
blackjack21trader
25-04-13, 08:22
My brain I dare say is better than Einstein because it was subjected to the worse kind of abuse when I was a kid. I had brain seizures many times. I think that sort of re-wired the electrical pulses inside it.
Really, I am better than Einstein because I made use of this ability to create wealth, while sad to say, Einstein was not that great with money.
WOAHAHEHHHEHE
Brudder, u may be will graham. Hahahahahahaha
blackjack21trader
25-04-13, 08:26
Really, I am better than Einstein because I made use of this ability to create wealth, while sad to say, Einstein was not that great with money.
WOAHAHEHHHEHE
My friends,colleagues and busness associates always ask me how come I know what they are thinking or what they wanted to say or do.
Frankly, I do not la. I merely visual what they are going to do next from their current and past actions or conversations. It was so obvious to me, but sad to say, their ability in this was uncovered and buried deep somewhere in their intelligence.
blackjack21trader
25-04-13, 08:27
Brudder, u may be will graham. Hahahahahahaha
Good brother chestnut ! So happy to see you here !
No la...I am more handsome than him lor :(
BTW, you like Thomas Harris ? And must have watched Silence of the Lambs twice, am I correct ?
blackjack21trader
25-04-13, 08:32
Good brother chestnut ! So happy to see you here !
No la...I am more handsome than him lor :(
BTW, you like Thomas Harris ? And must have watched Silence of the Lambs twice, am I correct ?
I never get to watch Red Dragon, but I certainly enjoyed watching Jodie Foster in Silence of the Lambs.
Actually, only after watching the movie than I go and read Thomas Harris.
I bet you also read stuffs like " The Rainmakers" ?
Good brother chestnut ! So happy to see you here !
No la...I am more handsome than him lor :(
BTW, you like Thomas Harris ? And must have watched Silence of the Lambs twice, am I correct ?
Hahahaha.. That's for sure....
:cheers4: :cheers4: :cheers4: :cheers4:
blackjack21trader
25-04-13, 08:36
Hahahaha.. That's for sure....
:cheers4: :cheers4: :cheers4: :cheers4:
My THIRD EYE see that you also read John Grisham.
I like John Grisham better because it is like Thomas Harris minus the murders.
blackjack21trader
25-04-13, 08:40
I hope young schooling brothers and sisters here start to read more. Especially those novels by great writers that challenge your thinking skills. You will not regret it. Reading newspapers will not improve your thinking skills one la.
WAOAHAHEHEHEH
I hope young schooling brothers and sisters here start to read more. Especially those novels by great writers that challenge your thinking skills. You will not regret it. Reading newspapers will not improve your thinking skills one la.
WAOAHAHEHEHEH
James Patterson - Alex Cross
This one also damn good
The Motley Fool
thomastansb
25-04-13, 10:01
Standard opposition thinking.
Give workfare, GST rebate - Government sucks because increase in cost of living
Don't give - Goverment sucks because never care for people.
By the way, you need to wake up. Every country will face increase in cost of living. Inflation is healthy around 3 to 4% from an economic point of view.
Extra GST voucher, S&C & income tax rebates, lower maid levy to cope with cost of living in Budget 2013
All these are as good as govt. confessed that they also think an increase in cost of living and thus provided all the bonus/goodies for Singapore to cope! :D
thomastansb
25-04-13, 10:02
True, you can't debate with yourself :D
I don't debate with clowns whose competency level are <PSLE level. :tsk-tsk:
thomastansb
25-04-13, 10:12
You forgot something. Something that is very important.
If they don't have GST 7%, the income tax will be increased by 5% (this is what you said :D ).
5% extra income tax x $5000 per month x 12 months = $3000.
So now, a family pays $3000 more. Higher than the $2425 that you have calculated. So now, the whole family suffer more in your scenario :tsk-tsk:. That is why I say, don't selfish lah. Think of the low to mid-low class.
Also, don't forget a family earning 5k will be eating at hawker for most of the time. Places where you don't pay GST. So the figure of 3.9k is lower.
So you might ask the difference between $3000 and $2425 come from where? One possible revenue is the tourism. Tourist pay GST for most stuffs. Ya, I know you will say people buy LV can claim GST. But people who eat at Mac, KFC (except hawker :D), shop at cold storage, shop at IT fair etc won't be able to claim. So this benefit the family that you were talking about. And we know how robust our tourism industry is.
Not forgetting, workfare benefit. You always forget this. You remove GST, workfare might be reduced or even removed.
Lower tax also attract more businesses - This explain why we have a very low unemployment rate. Lower than in the 80s where the tax was higher (you said one, I don't know so I quote you). So you want to go back to the 80s where there is higher unemployment, no GST, higher income tax? I wouldn't want.
All the extras that they receive is only a portion of what they had already made to come out from the own pocket. So what to thank? :doh:
just do a simple calculation: 4-room flat household get max $1500 (most don't get the max figure). With medium household income of about $5xxx pm, and they probably spend almost all of their income say $5000 pm on whole family expenses, that will include extra $3925 paid as 7% GST taxes. They pay $3925 as GST taxes a year and get back $1500 in 2013 (this is not every year goodie but GST taxes must be paid every year)! Obviously still luggie! :p
if they don't need to pay 7% GST, then they will earn back $3925 every year instead of incurring extra taxes of $2425 (less tax just this year only!) and back to $3925 in subsequent YEARS! :o
True, you can't debate with yourself :D
Aiyah when presented the facts they say u stupid I don't talk to u! Typical so typical.
You forgot something. Something that is very important.
If they don't have GST 7%, the income tax will be increased by 5% (this is what you said :D ).
5% extra income tax x $5000 per month x 12 months = $3000.
So now, a family pays $3000 more. Higher than the $2425 that you have calculated. So now, the whole family suffer more in your scenario :tsk-tsk:. That is why I say, don't selfish lah. Think of the low to mid-low class.
Also, don't forget a family earning 5k will be eating at hawker for most of the time. Places where you don't pay GST. So the figure of 3.9k is lower.
So you might ask the difference between $3000 and $2425 come from where? One possible revenue is the tourism. Tourist pay GST for most stuffs. Ya, I know you will say people buy LV can claim GST. But people who eat at Mac, KFC (except hawker :D), shop at cold storage, shop at IT fair etc won't be able to claim. So this benefit the family that you were talking about. And we know how robust our tourism industry is.
Not forgetting, workfare benefit. You always forget this. You remove GST, workfare might be reduced or even removed.
Lower tax also attract more businesses - This explain why we have a very low unemployment rate. Lower than in the 80s where the tax was higher (you said one, I don't know so I quote you). So you want to go back to the 80s where there is higher unemployment, no GST, higher income tax? I wouldn't want.
He will tell u he want!!!! But when he get there he will tell u another story blame again. The standard it's all ur fault make me feel good! U owe me! Coz u depend on me! BS.
Maybe that's why he is a bear. Always pessimist n depressed. Bear TRUELY need to be kept in a national park. City are to confusing for a bear.
Squall8888
25-04-13, 14:46
To be fair, not everything is rosy. Like our transport is pretty bad. But overall, my rating is 8/10. In life, you can't expect everything to be perfect and I won't vote my Government out just because the transport is bad (that is dumb). But overall, I still find it pretty good.
The poor people are definitely better off from what I witnessed for the past 30 years. GST or no GST, more or less income taxes, all these will have detrimental effects on each other. You can't just pluck a 7% GST and 5% reduction in income tax and say it is no good because you are ignoring the tangible and intangible benefits. Just like pension scheme, free education, free healthcare. You want it, someone has to pay for it. It doesn't drop from the sky. As long as the Government has low corruption, strong economy, plenty of jobs, I think it is moving the right direction. Who will bother about the rich people when you lose your job and have nothing to eat like some European countries? You think you will have the time and energy to complain about MRT breakdown? That is why, don't play with the economy. It is everything and everything is about survival :)
You forgot something. Something that is very important.
If they don't have GST 7%, the income tax will be increased by 5% (this is what you said :D ).
5% extra income tax x $5000 per month x 12 months = $3000.
So now, a family pays $3000 more. Higher than the $2425 that you have calculated. So now, the whole family suffer more in your scenario :tsk-tsk:. That is why I say, don't selfish lah. Think of the low to mid-low class.
Also, don't forget a family earning 5k will be eating at hawker for most of the time. Places where you don't pay GST. So the figure of 3.9k is lower.
So you might ask the difference between $3000 and $2425 come from where? One possible revenue is the tourism. Tourist pay GST for most stuffs. Ya, I know you will say people buy LV can claim GST. But people who eat at Mac, KFC (except hawker :D), shop at cold storage, shop at IT fair etc won't be able to claim. So this benefit the family that you were talking about. And we know how robust our tourism industry is.
Not forgetting, workfare benefit. You always forget this. You remove GST, workfare might be reduced or even removed.
Lower tax also attract more businesses - This explain why we have a very low unemployment rate. Lower than in the 80s where the tax was higher (you said one, I don't know so I quote you). So you want to go back to the 80s where there is higher unemployment, no GST, higher income tax? I wouldn't want.
NorthernStar
25-04-13, 14:51
No, you are wrong.
I am suggesting that they shouldn't even cut the top earners' income tax in the first place! I believe that if you earn more, you should get tax more. If you earn nothing, you shouldn't get tax. However, the current situation is that the top earners' income tax got cut by 13% and GST has been raised by 7% to cover the short-fall because the top earners get to save a lot more taxes than the GST taxes that they will pay. So, where does all these extra GST taxes mostly come from in order to make up for the shortfall due to the net tax cut for the top income earners? The answer is very obvious. Any layman with the right sense of mind would understand very well. Those who don't, well, we know....... :rolleyes:
Very simple... previously only 10 persons pay the tax.. now if i can attract 100 person to immigrate here.. i get 10X and eventually 90 persons more to pay GST
To be fair, not everything is rosy. Like our transport is pretty bad. But overall, my rating is 8/10. In life, you can't expect everything to be perfect and I won't vote my Government out just because the transport is bad (that is dumb). But overall, I still find it pretty good.
The poor people are definitely better off from what I witnessed for the past 30 years. GST or no GST, more or less income taxes, all these will have detrimental effects on each other. You can't just pluck a 7% GST and 5% reduction in income tax and say it is no good because you are ignoring the tangible and intangible benefits. Just like pension scheme, free education, free healthcare. You want it, someone has to pay for it. It doesn't drop from the sky. As long as the Government has low corruption, strong economy, plenty of jobs, I think it is moving the right direction. Who will bother about the rich people when you lose your job and have nothing to eat like some European countries? You think you will have the time and energy to complain about MRT breakdown? That is why, don't play with the economy. It is everything and everything is about survival :)
I keep hearing this term Low middle and high
What is the house hold income to be consider middle class.
I know we all follow from a baseline , I believe the hospital has a guideline to define what class you suppose to pay for your medical when warded.
From that definition, we could get a better viewpoint .
Looks like you are talking about yourself? :eek:
Aiyah when presented the facts they say u stupid I don't talk to u! Typical so typical.
Inflation from economic point of view? Think that is the most useless view, as we know economists can't read tea leaves, and they are always wrong, even Nobel Prize winners of Economics!
Please ask the middle-income family what is their actual living inflation on the ground, that is the real one, not some inflation index that seems to be so disconnected and does not take in the real truth! An inflation that takes a plate of chicken rice at the face price value when the portion has become so small (chicken meat become less and less) that I need to buy 2 plates to fill my stomach! So did they take 2 plates' price or 1 plate? Shouldn't they take 2 plates' price to be equivalent to previously? Or how about the same quality of toilet paper now the price has gone up by almost double but the still take the cheapest one in the basket? :doh:
Standard opposition thinking.
Give workfare, GST rebate - Government sucks because increase in cost of living
Don't give - Goverment sucks because never care for people.
By the way, you need to wake up. Every country will face increase in cost of living. Inflation is healthy around 3 to 4% from an economic point of view.
Did Singapore's population increase by 10x? :rolleyes:
Very simple... previously only 10 persons pay the tax.. now if i can attract 100 person to immigrate here.. i get 10X and eventually 90 persons more to pay GST
Talking to an idiot!
Why not you take out a spreadsheet, calculate the middle-income family work for 30 years, pay less income tax for 30 years, but need to live for 70 years, and pay extra GST for 70 years, a GST that is expected to increase the older he lives (and pay until they die) when his income tax is long zero after he stopped working even if it increased? So how much worst off they will be? :doh:
And when did middle income get 17% tax reduction?
Why not you take 1993 to now, 13% tax reduction for those at the top?
talk cock again.. taking the IRAS tax from 2012 to 2006
in fact the highest % gain from the reduction are the low income. with middle income getting 17% reduction and top earners get 5% . The lower income get more coz there is workfare given out too. talk cock sing song. again.
2012 2011-2007 2006 % reduced
First $20,000 0 0 0 0%
Next $10,000 2 3.5 3.75 47%
First $30,000
Next $10,000 3.5 5.5 5.75 39%
First $40,000
Next $40,000 7 8.5 8.75 20%
First $80,000
Next $40,000 11.5 14 14.5 21%
First $120,000
Next $ 40,000 15 14 18 17%
First $160,000
Next $ 40,000 17 17 18 6%
First $320,000
Above $320,000 20 20 21 5%
thomastansb
25-04-13, 16:10
Hmm.. Things that you think is beneficial to your argument, you take it without considering. What makes you think your citing of articles are good? I don't have to ask middle income. I am at 60% and I know how it is like.
Anyway, I have already show you earlier. GST of 7% and your 5% reduction in income tax is much better for the family example that you cited. Contrary to what you have been arguing about. Pure calculations so you won't be able to argue back.
Inflation from economic point of view? Think that is the most useless view, as we know economists can't read tea leaves, and they are always wrong, even Nobel Prize winners of Economics!
Please ask the middle-income family what is their actual living inflation on the ground, that is the real one, not some inflation index that seems to be so disconnected and does not take in the real truth! An inflation that takes a plate of chicken rice at the face price value when the portion has become so small (chicken meat become less and less) that I need to buy 2 plates to fill my stomach! So did they take 2 plates' price or 1 plate? Shouldn't they take 2 plates' price to be equivalent to previously? Or how about the same quality of toilet paper now the price has gone up by almost double but the still take the cheapest one in the basket? :doh:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.