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minority
15-04-13, 10:54
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article39948.html

Gold Brutal Price Crash - The Final Liquidation of the Gold Bug
Commodities / Gold and Silver 2013
Apr 14, 2013 - 07:08 PM GMT
By: Michael_Swanson


What you are witnessing in the gold market right now is the final liquidation of the gold bug. On Friday gold fell $84 an ounce for a 5.38% drop while the HUI gold stock index fell 6%. Big bad moves. What is worse these drops have come after months of falling gold prices all while the S&P 500 has gone higher.

This has been a very painful time for gold and silver bugs. While they have lost money they have for the most part watched the broad US stock market go up, which means that while their gold positions went down in value those not invested in gold and in just about anything else made money while they lost money. It feels awful to do that. There is only one word for this - brutal.


Gold bugs have been holding on to their positions since gold last made a peak in the Fall of 2011. Since then the HUI has dropped 53% since it topped out on September 8, 2011. They have held on through some frightening declines and seeming bottoms that provided nothing but false hope. Last year we saw a potential bottom in the Spring and a rally in the Fall that led to nothing but another top and a nosedive into this year and into the present.

The reward for believing in gold has been to be punished over and over again. Many gold bugs bought into gold with the idea that it was a safe haven - that to buy into the US stock market or stocks anywhere else in the world was just too risky to do. Didn't the 2008 stock market crash prove that? Didn't the European crisis of last year show us all the risks of debt? Not exactly - as European markets have boomed since last summer with Greece of all places being the fastest gaining market in the world.

But many have said that only gold can go up. That only gold will provide a way to make money. They promised that if you bought gold you would come out a winner while one day everyone else will lose money. Now it seems that all of the promises have proven to not be true and that gold has been the big disappointment.

Now many are selling disgust. CNBC is saying that gold is done, because Ben Bernanke and President Obama have put the country on the verge of a coming economic boom. They say command and control economics is the future and anyone who doubts this by owning gold is a dinosaur. In the last month we have seen days in which good economic news comes out that gold has gone done in value. Then on days when bad news has been announced gold goes down too instead of doing up.

Then on Friday the Cyprus government said it would sell gold and give the proceeds to the European Monetary Union to finance its bank bailouts as it gives up its national birthright. It seems no news is good for gold. Goldman Sachs sent a note to clients last week telling them to short gold. Marc Faber told a reporter this weekend that he thinks gold could drop to $1,300 an ounce before bottoming.

Many are saying gold is over and there are some now that have held on to their gold positions for years and are now selling. Some are taking that money and moving it into the S&P 500 in obedience to the talking heads on CNBC and really more in fear of missing out on more stock market gains than anything else. If that turns out to be a mistake well at least they won't be alone - so for many there is emotional comfort in that. They'll lose money with everyone else and that isn't as bad as possibly being all alone in gold while your neighbors in their boring mutual funds make money not knowing what they are doing. But that is not prudent investment behavior.


And Goldman Sachs isn't always right. What Goldman Sachs does with its own money and what it tells clients can be two different things. Back in March of 2000 Goldman Sachs talking head Abby Cohen told people to keep buying Internet stocks just as they topped. In July of last year Goldman Sachs sent a note to clients telling them to SHORT the S&P 500 due to what they thought were signs of economic weakness in the US economy. That was a mistake and this call now to short on gold on their behalf will be proven to be one too.

"So what is going on then?" you probably are asking. Why is gold falling? What does this mean? Are all the economic risks gone? Is deflation coming? Is Fed QE the miracle CNBC's Steve Liesman says it is? Yes there are some who hate gold bugs, because they represent doubts over the Federal Reserve. They wish they would become extinct.

But gold is not going away. Here is the thing. No one really knows exactly why gold is falling, because there probably is not some big economic reason for it. The truth is markets are cruel. They go up and trap people at tops and then fall far enough to cause as many people to sell on a bottom as they can. This is how bull and bear markets work.

Bear markets do not come to an end when news all of a sudden gets better. They come to an end when every potential seller in them sells out. This is what really causes bear markets - more selling than buying. Gold has been in a bear market now since 2011. However, that is a two year bear cycle within a long-term secular bull market cycle that has been going on for gold now for over a decade and is not over yet.

There are two things you need to realize. When this gold bear market is over a new bull market will begin and those that are invested in that bull market will make an absolute killing. Gold is still up over 580% from 2001 even with its decline of the past two years. And since then gold has gone through two other major declines which lasted over a year that led to awesome gains once they ended. There is no reason to think this time will be different.

Whatever you do you need to make sure that you are in gold during that next bull market. To sell now would mean to give that up. Perhaps though you have to sell. Maybe you own too much. Maybe you are on margin. Maybe you are a hedge fund with investors that now will have no more patience for your gold positions with the S&P 500 going up the past few months. You see bear markets force people to sell for many reasons. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being forced out of the gold market right now.

Second you have to realize that there is nothing easy about trying to make big bucks out of a financial market, because financial markets are cruel. If you thought the gold game was going to be easy than grow up. But realize that nothing else will be any easier. Don't think for a second that the S&P 500 is going to remain an easy game for people either. Since I've been in the financial markets there have been two massive stock market wipeouts that were just as bad - if not worse - than what we are witnessing in gold right now. And I am sure eventually once this bull market in the US stock market ends there will be another cruel bear market that will wipeout another round of investors.

This is how the stock market works and this cycle will never end. You see bull markets thrive on buying. They depend on more people putting more money into use to drive them higher. As people buy they get bullish. If someone has money and is on the sidelines he has doubts about the market. But once he buys he pushes those doubts away and proclaims himself to be a bull! That is why at major market tops bullish sentiment is widespread and just about everyone you know is in. But when there are no buyers left to get in the bull market ends as sellers take control.

As bear market start people hold on in hope. Each rally that comes appears to be the start of a new bull market, but as each successive rally disappoints more and more people sell. Sellers take control of the market. Whether the news is good or bad the market drops anyway.

You see the NEWS DOES NOT MATTER. In bull markets bad news is bought and in bear markets all news gets sold. The news means nothing. All that matters is whether the sellers are in control or the buyers. All that matters is whether the market is in a bull market or a bear market and that is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW. Trying to figure out why gold is dropping right now is a total waste of your time. It is dropping because it has been in a bear market for almost two years now and at the end of bear markets you can get crashes and extremes in bearish sentiment as every person who is a potential seller finally sells in a giant capitulation. What you are witnessing is not some grand change in the world economy, but the mass liquidation of all remaining gold bugs. It is simply the natural process of a bear market cycle that started in the Fall of 2011.

Right now the sentiment surrounding this gold market is just about as bad now as I've ever seen it. For instance see this comment from the blog Theshortsideoflong.com:

I have hinted at the extreme depressed sentiment including the following important indicators:
• In early March COT reported Gold short positions reached the highest level in over a decade
• In early March Gold's Public Opinion reached one of the lowest levels in at least a decade
• Last week COT reported Silver short positions reached the highest level in almost two decades
• Last week Silver's Public Opinion reached one of the lowest levels in at least a decade


The latest development worthy of "decade extreme" or "record extreme" within the Precious Metals sector, comes to us thanks to Mark Hulbert Financial Digest. According to Mark's latest WSJ column, there has been a huge plunge in exposure of various Gold newsletter advisors. Currently, the Hulbert Gold Newsletter Sentiment index (HGNSI) is at -31% net short, a historical record low since the inception of the survey in 1997. Essentially, this means that the average Gold newsletter advisor is telling subscribers and various other clients to be short Gold with 31% of their portfolio.

I just want to plead with you, do not give up on gold! You see no one cannot predict at what exact price the current gold price drop is going to end, but I can tell you two things for sure. I can tell you first of all that gold stocks are super cheap now on a fundamental basis with many gold stocks paying big dividends - dividends bigger than you can get from buying a US treasury bond. Newmont for example has a P/E of 10 and is paying a dividend over 4.30%.

I know you are probably thinking well they were cheap a month ago too and that doesn't mean that gold and gold stocks can't go lower. And yes you are right! They can. But one thing we both know for sure all bear markets come to an end and this one will too. And once it does gold prices will explode in value and a whole new cycle of gold investors will make a mint off of it.

I plan on being a part of that. I have a little gold and gold stock position so this drop has barely made a dent in my portfolio. You see I own positions in markets all over the world and gold has just been a tiny part of my portfolio. I didn't want to buy a whole lot of it until I was sure the bear trend was over.

Now I am getting excited about the idea of buying more of it. Tomorrow morning I am going to send premium WSW Power Investors my game plan for doing just that. We are all learning lessons from these markets. You never stop learning.

If you have had no choice but to sell gold positions because of this decline or feel like you must due to the impact a further drop in gold would have on your portfolio or your job if you are a fund manager then the lesson you need to take away from this is not that gold is now bad, but that you need to manage your money differently in the future. The mistake you made was not in owning gold, but in owning too much of it or not reducing your position at the right time and taking some profits if you sold years ago.

Maybe you are in cash and are feeling no pain at all though. I do not know what your personal position is on gold as I am writing this for myself and thousands of others who will read it. What all of us must do, no matter what our current investments are, is figure out what is the best way to make money in these markets going forward. If you believe like I do that gold will go higher once again once its current decline that started way back in the Fall of 2011 is over than you must figure out how you want to be a part of that next bull run in gold and precious metals. You need to figure out when you want to buy it and how much.

You need to figure out how you want to manage your money in a bull market. You see people buy in tops and sell on crashes over and over again never learning anything, because they never stop to learn from what they have already done. Once you learn then you make money in a sustainable manner.

Bull markets come and go. So do bear markets. These cruel cycles and patterns never will end, because they are human nature. With gold we are witnessing climatic bear market crash action. We are witnessing the liquidation of the gold bug and the beginning of a bottom. The only thing left once all of the potential sellers are gone will be the few strong hands left - those will be the people who just own a little bit so they don't get crushed so much they have to sell and those simply tough enough to hold on. They are the few and the brave.

What you have to think about though isn't being tough - but getting smarter when it comes to investing. Market action like this is when it makes sense to make plans to buy. Think about last year when European markets crashed and everyone said it was stupid to invest there. No one believed, because no one was left to believe. And now the gold bugs are almost all gone too.
To get future updates from me about the price of gold and actionable investment ideas subscribe to my free newsletter at

http://www.wallstreetwindow.com/newslettersubscribeforfree.htm
By Michael Swanson

DC33_2008
15-04-13, 22:09
Gold has dropped to US$1409 now. :)

teddybear
15-04-13, 22:15
I had already warned about GOLD for a few months already... I am not saint so I can't tell for sure when will happen but what is happening below is just a matter of time... :ashamed1:
Another thing, usually agile investors/traders/speculators play gold futures, not physical gold... Don't know who playing physical gold... :p
The worst are those who copycat hear other people gold good to "invest", copy other people do... :doh:


Gold has dropped to US$1409 now. :)


http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article39948.html

Gold Brutal Price Crash - The Final Liquidation of the Gold Bug
Commodities / Gold and Silver 2013
Apr 14, 2013 - 07:08 PM GMT
By: Michael_Swanson


What you are witnessing in the gold market right now is the final liquidation of the gold bug. On Friday gold fell $84 an ounce for a 5.38% drop while the HUI gold stock index fell 6%. Big bad moves. What is worse these drops have come after months of falling gold prices all while the S&P 500 has gone higher.

This has been a very painful time for gold and silver bugs. While they have lost money they have for the most part watched the broad US stock market go up, which means that while their gold positions went down in value those not invested in gold and in just about anything else made money while they lost money. It feels awful to do that. There is only one word for this - brutal.


Gold bugs have been holding on to their positions since gold last made a peak in the Fall of 2011. Since then the HUI has dropped 53% since it topped out on September 8, 2011. They have held on through some frightening declines and seeming bottoms that provided nothing but false hope. Last year we saw a potential bottom in the Spring and a rally in the Fall that led to nothing but another top and a nosedive into this year and into the present.

The reward for believing in gold has been to be punished over and over again. Many gold bugs bought into gold with the idea that it was a safe haven - that to buy into the US stock market or stocks anywhere else in the world was just too risky to do. Didn't the 2008 stock market crash prove that? Didn't the European crisis of last year show us all the risks of debt? Not exactly - as European markets have boomed since last summer with Greece of all places being the fastest gaining market in the world.

But many have said that only gold can go up. That only gold will provide a way to make money. They promised that if you bought gold you would come out a winner while one day everyone else will lose money. Now it seems that all of the promises have proven to not be true and that gold has been the big disappointment.

Now many are selling disgust. CNBC is saying that gold is done, because Ben Bernanke and President Obama have put the country on the verge of a coming economic boom. They say command and control economics is the future and anyone who doubts this by owning gold is a dinosaur. In the last month we have seen days in which good economic news comes out that gold has gone done in value. Then on days when bad news has been announced gold goes down too instead of doing up.

Then on Friday the Cyprus government said it would sell gold and give the proceeds to the European Monetary Union to finance its bank bailouts as it gives up its national birthright. It seems no news is good for gold. Goldman Sachs sent a note to clients last week telling them to short gold. Marc Faber told a reporter this weekend that he thinks gold could drop to $1,300 an ounce before bottoming.

Many are saying gold is over and there are some now that have held on to their gold positions for years and are now selling. Some are taking that money and moving it into the S&P 500 in obedience to the talking heads on CNBC and really more in fear of missing out on more stock market gains than anything else. If that turns out to be a mistake well at least they won't be alone - so for many there is emotional comfort in that. They'll lose money with everyone else and that isn't as bad as possibly being all alone in gold while your neighbors in their boring mutual funds make money not knowing what they are doing. But that is not prudent investment behavior.


And Goldman Sachs isn't always right. What Goldman Sachs does with its own money and what it tells clients can be two different things. Back in March of 2000 Goldman Sachs talking head Abby Cohen told people to keep buying Internet stocks just as they topped. In July of last year Goldman Sachs sent a note to clients telling them to SHORT the S&P 500 due to what they thought were signs of economic weakness in the US economy. That was a mistake and this call now to short on gold on their behalf will be proven to be one too.

"So what is going on then?" you probably are asking. Why is gold falling? What does this mean? Are all the economic risks gone? Is deflation coming? Is Fed QE the miracle CNBC's Steve Liesman says it is? Yes there are some who hate gold bugs, because they represent doubts over the Federal Reserve. They wish they would become extinct.

But gold is not going away. Here is the thing. No one really knows exactly why gold is falling, because there probably is not some big economic reason for it. The truth is markets are cruel. They go up and trap people at tops and then fall far enough to cause as many people to sell on a bottom as they can. This is how bull and bear markets work.

Bear markets do not come to an end when news all of a sudden gets better. They come to an end when every potential seller in them sells out. This is what really causes bear markets - more selling than buying. Gold has been in a bear market now since 2011. However, that is a two year bear cycle within a long-term secular bull market cycle that has been going on for gold now for over a decade and is not over yet.

There are two things you need to realize. When this gold bear market is over a new bull market will begin and those that are invested in that bull market will make an absolute killing. Gold is still up over 580% from 2001 even with its decline of the past two years. And since then gold has gone through two other major declines which lasted over a year that led to awesome gains once they ended. There is no reason to think this time will be different.

Whatever you do you need to make sure that you are in gold during that next bull market. To sell now would mean to give that up. Perhaps though you have to sell. Maybe you own too much. Maybe you are on margin. Maybe you are a hedge fund with investors that now will have no more patience for your gold positions with the S&P 500 going up the past few months. You see bear markets force people to sell for many reasons. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being forced out of the gold market right now.

Second you have to realize that there is nothing easy about trying to make big bucks out of a financial market, because financial markets are cruel. If you thought the gold game was going to be easy than grow up. But realize that nothing else will be any easier. Don't think for a second that the S&P 500 is going to remain an easy game for people either. Since I've been in the financial markets there have been two massive stock market wipeouts that were just as bad - if not worse - than what we are witnessing in gold right now. And I am sure eventually once this bull market in the US stock market ends there will be another cruel bear market that will wipeout another round of investors.

This is how the stock market works and this cycle will never end. You see bull markets thrive on buying. They depend on more people putting more money into use to drive them higher. As people buy they get bullish. If someone has money and is on the sidelines he has doubts about the market. But once he buys he pushes those doubts away and proclaims himself to be a bull! That is why at major market tops bullish sentiment is widespread and just about everyone you know is in. But when there are no buyers left to get in the bull market ends as sellers take control.

As bear market start people hold on in hope. Each rally that comes appears to be the start of a new bull market, but as each successive rally disappoints more and more people sell. Sellers take control of the market. Whether the news is good or bad the market drops anyway.

You see the NEWS DOES NOT MATTER. In bull markets bad news is bought and in bear markets all news gets sold. The news means nothing. All that matters is whether the sellers are in control or the buyers. All that matters is whether the market is in a bull market or a bear market and that is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW. Trying to figure out why gold is dropping right now is a total waste of your time. It is dropping because it has been in a bear market for almost two years now and at the end of bear markets you can get crashes and extremes in bearish sentiment as every person who is a potential seller finally sells in a giant capitulation. What you are witnessing is not some grand change in the world economy, but the mass liquidation of all remaining gold bugs. It is simply the natural process of a bear market cycle that started in the Fall of 2011.

Right now the sentiment surrounding this gold market is just about as bad now as I've ever seen it. For instance see this comment from the blog Theshortsideoflong.com:

I have hinted at the extreme depressed sentiment including the following important indicators:
• In early March COT reported Gold short positions reached the highest level in over a decade
• In early March Gold's Public Opinion reached one of the lowest levels in at least a decade
• Last week COT reported Silver short positions reached the highest level in almost two decades
• Last week Silver's Public Opinion reached one of the lowest levels in at least a decade


The latest development worthy of "decade extreme" or "record extreme" within the Precious Metals sector, comes to us thanks to Mark Hulbert Financial Digest. According to Mark's latest WSJ column, there has been a huge plunge in exposure of various Gold newsletter advisors. Currently, the Hulbert Gold Newsletter Sentiment index (HGNSI) is at -31% net short, a historical record low since the inception of the survey in 1997. Essentially, this means that the average Gold newsletter advisor is telling subscribers and various other clients to be short Gold with 31% of their portfolio.

I just want to plead with you, do not give up on gold! You see no one cannot predict at what exact price the current gold price drop is going to end, but I can tell you two things for sure. I can tell you first of all that gold stocks are super cheap now on a fundamental basis with many gold stocks paying big dividends - dividends bigger than you can get from buying a US treasury bond. Newmont for example has a P/E of 10 and is paying a dividend over 4.30%.

I know you are probably thinking well they were cheap a month ago too and that doesn't mean that gold and gold stocks can't go lower. And yes you are right! They can. But one thing we both know for sure all bear markets come to an end and this one will too. And once it does gold prices will explode in value and a whole new cycle of gold investors will make a mint off of it.

I plan on being a part of that. I have a little gold and gold stock position so this drop has barely made a dent in my portfolio. You see I own positions in markets all over the world and gold has just been a tiny part of my portfolio. I didn't want to buy a whole lot of it until I was sure the bear trend was over.

Now I am getting excited about the idea of buying more of it. Tomorrow morning I am going to send premium WSW Power Investors my game plan for doing just that. We are all learning lessons from these markets. You never stop learning.

If you have had no choice but to sell gold positions because of this decline or feel like you must due to the impact a further drop in gold would have on your portfolio or your job if you are a fund manager then the lesson you need to take away from this is not that gold is now bad, but that you need to manage your money differently in the future. The mistake you made was not in owning gold, but in owning too much of it or not reducing your position at the right time and taking some profits if you sold years ago.

Maybe you are in cash and are feeling no pain at all though. I do not know what your personal position is on gold as I am writing this for myself and thousands of others who will read it. What all of us must do, no matter what our current investments are, is figure out what is the best way to make money in these markets going forward. If you believe like I do that gold will go higher once again once its current decline that started way back in the Fall of 2011 is over than you must figure out how you want to be a part of that next bull run in gold and precious metals. You need to figure out when you want to buy it and how much.

You need to figure out how you want to manage your money in a bull market. You see people buy in tops and sell on crashes over and over again never learning anything, because they never stop to learn from what they have already done. Once you learn then you make money in a sustainable manner.

Bull markets come and go. So do bear markets. These cruel cycles and patterns never will end, because they are human nature. With gold we are witnessing climatic bear market crash action. We are witnessing the liquidation of the gold bug and the beginning of a bottom. The only thing left once all of the potential sellers are gone will be the few strong hands left - those will be the people who just own a little bit so they don't get crushed so much they have to sell and those simply tough enough to hold on. They are the few and the brave.

What you have to think about though isn't being tough - but getting smarter when it comes to investing. Market action like this is when it makes sense to make plans to buy. Think about last year when European markets crashed and everyone said it was stupid to invest there. No one believed, because no one was left to believe. And now the gold bugs are almost all gone too.
To get future updates from me about the price of gold and actionable investment ideas subscribe to my free newsletter at

http://www.wallstreetwindow.com/newslettersubscribeforfree.htm
By Michael Swanson

rockinsg
15-04-13, 22:20
Gold has dropped to US$1409 now. :)

It might be a good time to invest, but who got balls.
Same as property , when price are down those who are crying now, still wont have balls to play :D:D

DC33_2008
15-04-13, 22:21
Bloomberg shows US$1396 now:scared-4:
It might be a good time to invest, but who got balls.
Same as property , when price are down those who are crying now, still wont have balls to play :D:D

Laguna
15-04-13, 22:23
Deleted

Deleted

DC33_2008
15-04-13, 22:23
Can go in when reaches US$1200?
It might be a good time to invest, but who got balls.
Same as property , when price are down those who are crying now, still wont have balls to play :D:D

DC33_2008
15-04-13, 22:35
US$ is SGD1.23 and DJI is down 100pts.
Can go in when reaches US$1200?

bargain hunter
15-04-13, 22:52
in sg, there are many of those gold guarantee "scams" rite?

those which promise to buy back from u at a much higher price? (i m not familiar with those)

bargain hunter
15-04-13, 22:54
1363.........................


Bloomberg shows US$1396 now:scared-4:

kane
15-04-13, 22:56
in sg, there are many of those gold guarantee "scams" rite?

those which promise to buy back from u at a much higher price? (i m not familiar with those)

this crushing drop might change a few dynamics on their repurchase program.

bargain hunter
15-04-13, 23:00
u mean END their repurchase program? :D


this crushing drop might change a few dynamics on their repurchase program.

kane
15-04-13, 23:05
u mean END their repurchase program? :D

friends tried to refer me to this scheme, i tell them one thing, the world has a risk free rate, and that is the reference point and good gauge as to what the risk of the investment is. the higher the return, the less bao jiak it is. and when things are too good to be true...

sgbuyer
15-04-13, 23:30
in sg, there are many of those gold guarantee "scams" rite?

those which promise to buy back from u at a much higher price? (i m not familiar with those)


Actually, these scams work on the basis that people won't redeem their physical gold. Once too many people redeem - like when gold prices are tumbling, these scams can't produce the gold and collapse.

minority
15-04-13, 23:34
this crushing drop might change a few dynamics on their repurchase program.


Mostly run road Liao.

kane
16-04-13, 00:01
listening to Dennis Gartman's tele-interview on CNBC right now. even this guy says he has never seen this before. :D

the better news is pump prices are likely to come down some more this week.

rockinsg
16-04-13, 01:39
Can go in when reaches US$1200?

If I have no use for it I have no idea why other pay so high for it.:doh:
Gold cycle are long and painful.

But if go below 1000 will play play:D:D:D

DC33_2008
16-04-13, 07:17
Gold drops till US$1359 this morning.
If I have no use for it I have no idea why other pay so high for it.:doh:
Gold cycle are long and painful.

But if go below 1000 will play play:D:D:D

kane
16-04-13, 08:49
It is 1330 now.

DC33_2008
16-04-13, 09:19
Anyone has gone down to the UOB to check on the actual rate for physical gold?

Laguna
16-04-13, 09:19
Look like 1300 will be broken
Silver is much worst

More margin calls and liquidation by funds.

Cyprus selling US $500m in fact is not that huge amount if it is managed over a period of time.

There are now many short sellers in the market, VIX for gold is now more than 45

indomie
16-04-13, 09:25
All hail the mighty greenback. Now gold, oil, euro, yen fall to its knee. Some country must be very nervous now after Boston explosion. The American is going to get u.

Laguna
16-04-13, 09:33
Extremely bearish
Comex silver is lower than spot

mcmlxxvi
16-04-13, 09:34
Who the frisk is that swan song guy.

sgbuyer
16-04-13, 09:36
All hail the mighty greenback. Now gold, oil, euro, yen fall to its knee. Some country must be very nervous now after Boston explosion. The American is going to get u.


America knows what we're doing and everyone of us. Every sms we sent (android, iphone, nokia), every website we go to (google, facebook), our friends, family, they know all. ;)

Rosy
16-04-13, 10:02
Waiting for 11xx.

18 for silver will be very nice too.

leesg123
16-04-13, 10:30
it is them to load some more gold!

indomie
16-04-13, 10:50
Obnoxious Troll Asks Massachusetts Governor If Marathon Attack Was A 'False Flag'
Walter Hickey | Apr. 15, 2013, 9:20 PM | 14,745 | 35
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During a press conference intended to provide updates regarding the investigation into the bombing of the Boston Marathon, one individual present asked Massachusetts governor if the bombing was a "false flag" attack.
A false flag is a war term that refers to perpetrating an attack under the guise of the enemy for the purpose of making them look bad.
Senator Elizabeth Warren and Governor Deval Patrick were both in attendance.
"Why were people in the audience telling people to be calm moments before the bomb went off," the person asked, "Was this another false flag staged attack to take our civil liberties and promote Homeland Security by sticking their hands down our pants on the streets?"
"No," the Governor said, "Next question."

newbie11
16-04-13, 11:52
UOB price
https://uniservices1.uobgroup.com/secure/online_rates/gold_and_silver_prices.jsp?keepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&width=560&height=400

minority
16-04-13, 13:25
If hit 900? Buy?

sgbuyer
16-04-13, 14:56
If hit 900? Buy?


Production cost is now $1200 per once. If hit $900, of course can buy lah.

Similarly, production cost of condo is S$250 psf. If price drops to S$200, of course can buy lah!

:D

teddybear
16-04-13, 16:31
Buy Gold at below production cost then use it to knock your head since can't do anything else with it and it can't produce rental/dividend for you? :p

Sure or not, production cost of condo at S$250 psf? I thought that is already HDB BTO bare unit construction costs? :tsk-tsk:


Production cost is now $1200 per once. If hit $900, of course can buy lah.

Similarly, production cost of condo is S$250 psf. If price drops to S$200, of course can buy lah!

:D

stl67
16-04-13, 16:50
wah $1200 to produce 1 ounce and the gold price is about $1400... how to expect gold to drop to below <$1200? is my understanding correct?

we to buy some gold for our kids when they get marry, is it a good time to buy now? or should i wait?

lionhill
16-04-13, 16:53
Production cost is now $1200 per once. If hit $900, of course can buy lah.

Similarly, production cost of condo is S$250 psf. If price drops to S$200, of course can buy lah!

:D
First thing, how is the production cost calculated?

sgbuyer
16-04-13, 17:37
First thing, how is the production cost calculated?


I don't know, that's what I read. But production cost can also drop if demand drops. Cost somehow seem to follow the price of commodities, but if business is bad, somehow the companies will find ways to lower cost. :D

This was what happened with oil producers in Canada when Canada Sweet select plunged to $60 per barrel.

rockinsg
16-04-13, 20:58
Production cost is now $1200 per once. If hit $900, of course can buy lah.

Similarly, production cost of condo is S$250 psf. If price drops to S$200, of course can buy lah!

:D

Property will always be valuable. Worse come to worse u can still rent out at lower rate.

richwang
16-04-13, 22:19
I am long in gold - must be the minority now. Cheers!

1000g
16-04-13, 23:13
http://www.globalresearch.ca/fed-orchestrated-smash-in-gold/5331174

http://www.globalresearch.ca/paper-gold-market-collapses-scarcity-of-physical-gold-for-sale-in-asia/5331570

Anyone checked if it is physically available?

1000g
16-04-13, 23:54
I am long in gold - must be the minority now. Cheers!

http://www.resourceinvestor.com/2013/04/16/the-gold-takedown-another-glimpse-into-the-central?ref=hp

👍

sgbuyer
17-04-13, 09:59
http://www.globalresearch.ca/fed-orchestrated-smash-in-gold/5331174

http://www.globalresearch.ca/paper-gold-market-collapses-scarcity-of-physical-gold-for-sale-in-asia/5331570

Anyone checked if it is physically available?


A bubble is a bubble. Gold has overshot fundamentals.

1000g
17-04-13, 10:49
A bubble is a bubble. Gold has overshot fundamentals.

Just my 2cts. China central banks couldn't get the physical gold at the price.
Hope that everyone huat, be it hold, sell or buy. 😄

sgbuyer
17-04-13, 11:17
Just my 2cts. China central banks couldn't get the physical gold at the price.
Hope that everyone huat, be it hold, sell or buy. 😄


You really believe in those gold bug articles?

China is the biggest producer of gold in the world, producing 9.7 million ounces of gold a year. They can't get physical gold is really a joke when the gold is all inside China and inside the mines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_mining_in_China

1000g
17-04-13, 12:35
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u148/1000g/D2A5CFCA-71DB-4EB1-9C11-7768FEE293EF-2933-00000430190B9E35.jpg

People at UOB B1 as per this morning.

Rosy
17-04-13, 13:11
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u148/1000g/D2A5CFCA-71DB-4EB1-9C11-7768FEE293EF-2933-00000430190B9E35.jpg

People at UOB B1 as per this morning.
Herd mentality?

1000g
17-04-13, 13:25
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u148/1000g/3135F543-7EC1-42F7-A0BA-1321033756E5-2933-0000043F50829668.jpg

Probably, or maybe the correction was good enough for some.

richwang
17-04-13, 14:07
just came back from UOB Bank.
The queue is so long, they still have 100g, 1kg, etc. But refuse to distribute the usual price list. You will only know the price when it is your turn.
With this kind of speed, physical gold for 100g will likely be sold out, and you will need to wait for 3 months for them to restock. By then the price will be different.
This happened during the finanicial crisis time.

Thanks,
Richard

Amber Woods
17-04-13, 14:55
What will happen if someday UOB decides to close down its gold trading business?

I believe it will be very difficult to sell those gold bars we bought from UOB to other institutions. They may not even want to buy them and if they want to buy them it will sure incur a huge haircut.

ay123
17-04-13, 15:54
What will happen if someday UOB decides to close down its gold trading business?

I believe it will be very difficult to sell those gold bars we bought from UOB to other institutions. They may not even want to buy them and if they want to buy them it will sure incur a huge haircut.
UOB buy back at market price if original condition

sgbuyer
17-04-13, 17:19
just came back from UOB Bank.
The queue is so long, they still have 100g, 1kg, etc. But refuse to distribute the usual price list. You will only know the price when it is your turn.
With this kind of speed, physical gold for 100g will likely be sold out, and you will need to wait for 3 months for them to restock. By then the price will be different.
This happened during the finanicial crisis time.

Thanks,
Richard


They could ship some over from Portugal. Portugal has 382,500 kg of gold - http://portuguese-american-journal.com/portugal-holds-the-largest-gold-reserve-in-the-eu-update/

:p

Rosy
17-04-13, 19:09
What will happen if someday UOB decides to close down its gold trading business?

I believe it will be very difficult to sell those gold bars we bought from UOB to other institutions. They may not even want to buy them and if they want to buy them it will sure incur a huge haircut.
Canadian gold coins are internationally recognised. I prefer physical coins over cast bars.

I prefer to trade gold etf instead.

minority
17-04-13, 21:08
just came back from UOB Bank.
The queue is so long, they still have 100g, 1kg, etc. But refuse to distribute the usual price list. You will only know the price when it is your turn.
With this kind of speed, physical gold for 100g will likely be sold out, and you will need to wait for 3 months for them to restock. By then the price will be different.
This happened during the finanicial crisis time.

Thanks,
Richard

Just go buy a EFT now to hedge the price loh. 3 mths later go back and buy the physical bar.

richwang
17-04-13, 21:21
What will happen if someday UOB decides to close down its gold trading business?

I believe it will be very difficult to sell those gold bars we bought from UOB to other institutions. They may not even want to buy them and if they want to buy them it will sure incur a huge haircut.
The physical gold sold by UOB is indeed Swiss gold.
Gold is gold, it is the hard currency recognized anywhere in the world.
You can sell it to pawn shop, jewelery maker, etc.
And no more GST now.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. You can only bring 50g of gold out of china without the need to declare.

kane
17-04-13, 21:35
Just go buy a EFT now to hedge the price loh. 3 mths later go back and buy the physical bar.

lose out a bit on the comms and the GST differential on the higher price of gold. well, i guess it boils down to how much they are buying when they are queueing now.

teddybear
18-04-13, 00:11
My understanding is they will test whether genuine or not, then buy at 60-70% of market price?


The physical gold sold by UOB is indeed Swiss gold.
Gold is gold, it is the hard currency recognized anywhere in the world.
You can sell it to pawn shop, jewelery maker, etc.
And no more GST now.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. You can only bring 50g of gold out of china without the need to declare.

minority
19-04-13, 09:43
lose out a bit on the comms and the GST differential on the higher price of gold. well, i guess it boils down to how much they are buying when they are queueing now.


No more gst. But etf is more liquid. Want to cash out less hassle. Unless there is a huge desire to hold n hug the physical metal. ETF is a good alternative. Comm is relative low. Considering the pyhsical selling hassle n spread. I prefer agility. Maybe a few pieces as trophy pieces thats all.

yowetan
19-04-13, 09:58
Hi...what are the ETFs available? GLDUSD is one of them?

phantom_opera
19-04-13, 10:14
I feel sad for these last minute heroes

good luck, I will not touch gold above 1,200USD

Laguna
19-04-13, 10:54
US$1,300 first support, but appears weak
stronger support at US$1170 level.

stl67
19-04-13, 10:58
US$1,300 first support, but appears weak
stronger support at US$1170 level.

Someone said that the cost of producing 1 ounce is US$1200 and I went to verify in the internet.

So chances of it dropping below cost is not so high right. I plan to buy some gold contracts.

sgbuyer
19-04-13, 11:26
Someone said that the cost of producing 1 ounce is US$1200 and I went to verify in the internet.

So chances of it dropping below cost is not so high right. I plan to buy some gold contracts.


$1200 is the average. There are some that can produce at $1000. Moreover costs can be reduced through cost cutting.

phantom_opera
19-04-13, 11:33
cost can also escalate when the workers of major gold miners go on strike, kill the boss lol

anyway listen to Buffet, never buy anything that u are not familiar with, 5% portfolio is ok, 25% is a no-no

Laguna
19-04-13, 11:47
Just finished reading the
Precious metals update- gold April 2013 by RBS Morgan

The cash cost ranges from 200 to 850
All in cost 590 to 1200

hopeful
19-04-13, 15:11
just fyi, abn amro defaulted on their gold certificates from 1st april.
they are not going to deliver physical gold anymore, now is cash settled.

lucky UOB still have gold convertibility for certificate. Don't know when they will close the window. now have converted uob gold certificates to gold bars. and adding more 2kg since the big drop, will add somemore if price drop some more.

still cried a bit, but didnt people here like to quote Nathan Rothschild,""buy when there's blood on the street, including your own".

sgbuyer
19-04-13, 15:32
cost can also escalate when the workers of major gold miners go on strike, kill the boss lol

anyway listen to Buffet, never buy anything that u are not familiar with, 5% portfolio is ok, 25% is a no-no



That was when business was good. Now gold price has crashed, the boss will just lock the gates to the gold mine and fly out of town.

lajia
19-04-13, 16:42
there is also another saying....dont catch the knife when it is falling...:2cents:
it might fall below 1000 soon...;)
just my opinion.


just fyi, abn amro defaulted on their gold certificates from 1st april.
they are not going to deliver physical gold anymore, now is cash settled.

lucky UOB still have gold convertibility for certificate. Don't know when they will close the window. now have converted uob gold certificates to gold bars. and adding more 2kg since the big drop, will add somemore if price drop some more.

still cried a bit, but didnt people here like to quote Nathan Rothschild,""buy when there's blood on the street, including your own".

sgbuyer
19-04-13, 18:38
there is also another saying....dont catch the knife when it is falling...:2cents:
it might fall below 1000 soon...;)
just my opinion.


I suspect some banks got huge derivative paper position in gold.

lajia
19-04-13, 19:10
Mkt up or down, they have great influence....take the cue from them might be too late, u need to be ahead of them. :cool: :2cents:

I suspect some banks got huge derivative paper position in gold.

hopeful
20-04-13, 07:50
have anyone seen on bloomberg where the president of the chinese gold and silver exchange interviewed?
they almost run out of gold bullion and have to wait till wednesday for new shipments.
now i know why when i buy from uob this time, i get swiss gold bar instead of the usual indonesian gold bar (antam gold).

Shanhz
21-04-13, 13:00
All hail the mighty greenback. Now gold, oil, euro, yen fall to its knee. Some country must be very nervous now after Boston explosion. The American is going to get u.

If eveything falls, something has to go up. The big players need to put their money somewhere. Equity?

Shanhz
21-04-13, 13:02
Production cost is now $1200 per once. If hit $900, of course can buy lah.

Similarly, production cost of condo is S$250 psf. If price drops to S$200, of course can buy lah!

:D

How do we know the production cost?

Shanhz
21-04-13, 13:05
just came back from UOB Bank.
The queue is so long, they still have 100g, 1kg, etc. But refuse to distribute the usual price list. You will only know the price when it is your turn.
With this kind of speed, physical gold for 100g will likely be sold out, and you will need to wait for 3 months for them to restock. By then the price will be different.
This happened during the finanicial crisis time.

Thanks,
Richard

Was there on friday. Longer than two hr q. Two weeks ago, i could walk in and buy gold within 5 minutes.

There were some private transactions going on in the closed rooms. I saw many workers wheeling out suitcases of heavy stuff. No guesses whats inside.

Anyway i hv always been long gold. I will buy a coin or two every now and then.

minority
21-04-13, 13:08
Was there on friday. Longer than two hr q. Two weeks ago, i could walk in and buy gold within 5 minutes.

Anyway i hv always been long gold. I will buy a coin or two every now and then.

If pass through airport T3 UOB counter might see less Q. But at 1200 per oz then I will touch.

Rosy
21-04-13, 14:03
If eveything falls, something has to go up. The big players need to put their money somewhere. Equity?
this question is very late.

Rosy
21-04-13, 14:05
If pass through airport T3 UOB counter might see less Q. But at 1200 per oz then I will touch.
watch out for dow jones.

I will buy some more gold when dow shows weakness.

Rosy
21-04-13, 14:21
Was there on friday. Longer than two hr q. Two weeks ago, i could walk in and buy gold within 5 minutes.

There were some private transactions going on in the closed rooms. I saw many workers wheeling out suitcases of heavy stuff. No guesses whats inside.

Anyway i hv always been long gold. I will buy a coin or two every now and then.
Some Chinatown goldsmith like poh heng was very crowded. Seemingly china buyers buying with cash.

retail demand for gold is REAL globally. Silver too.

kane
21-04-13, 17:50
wah, suddenly everyone rushing to buy gold.