View Full Version : Khaw: HDB will be the price-setter
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 10:23
As reported in the Straits Times, 13 April 2013
Mr Khaw lamenated that, judging from the packed showrooms, it has not "sunk in" for Singaporeans that the era of huge capital gains for property gains is at an end, with slower economic and thus wages growth in the years ahead.
While property prices have moderated across the board in the past year, "there is still scope to bring (prices) down to minus (growth rates) for some segments", he said.
You probably can get which segments. :scared-2:
As reported in the Straits Times, 13 April 2013
Mr Khaw lamenated that, judging from the packed showrooms, it has not "sunk in" for Singaporeans that the era of huge capital gains for property gains is at an end, with slower economic and thus wages growth in the years ahead.
While property prices have moderated across the board in the past year, "there is still scope to bring (prices) down to minus (growth rates) for some segments", he said.
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 10:34
You probably can get which segments. :scared-2:
Mr Khaw is so determined to bring down prices of new BTO flats by 30% and resale prices to 2009 price level. It will have great impact on prices for mass market PCs. These are the segments that need to be managed.
The mid end and high end will find their own niches in the market going forward.
Mr Khaw is so determined to bring down prices of new BTO flats by 30% and resale prices to 2009 price level. It will have great impact on prices for mass market PCs. These are the segments that need to be managed.
The mid end and high end will find their own niches in the market going forward.
He only said bto flat in non mature estate and it will be bounded by some rules.
He did not say anything on resale flat. Don't misled.
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 11:03
He only said bto flat in non mature estate and it will be bounded by some rules.
He did not say anything on resale flat. Don't misled.
One must learn how to read between the lines of politicians. You are free to believe otherwise.
Private home price will go gradually higher as land price is getting higher. Foreigner workers levy cost is getting higher. If it is cheap foreigners will flood in here.
Khaw mulls the idea of no income ceiling for HDB flats..price going up soon?
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 11:07
Mr Khaw was also wondering why people are still packing the showflats. Singaporeans have not sunk-in to the new reality.
On Monday, one lady from Queenstown came all the way to my MPS at Sembawang. She came with her son. She had not slept well since she heard the news that I may stop the resale of HDB flats in the open market, and that all resale would be to HDB only. She wanted to know if she had heard correctly.
She has a fully paid up 3R flat and had booked a new BTO flat in Bukit Panjang which will be ready in a couple of years’ time. She has done her sum and expects to have a sizeable net cash proceeds. That will be her retirement fund. The news that she has heard may squash her dream.
I told her that she has completely misunderstood the media reports on what I said in Parliament! Briefly I told Parliament that there had been many calls for HDB to “return to basics”, for example to “return to the past when flats could only be sold to HDB, and not in the open market”. Such a call would have major impact on existing flat owners, especially the seniors, like her.
We want to provide affordable housing for new homeowners, especially young couples, but we will not forget the interest of the many hundreds of thousands of existing homeowners. Some plan to rely on their flat to finance retirement needs. Some hope to bequeath their flats to the next generation. Some rely on renting out a room to bring in extra cash proceeds. Their concerns matter to me too.
I told her that I do plan to see how we can come up with a new housing option which can be a lot cheaper than today’s BTO price. And if we offer such a low-cost housing option, it must come with restrictions to differentiate it from the existing BTO flats. I mentioned some such restrictions as proposed by some MPs: longer minimum occupation period, shorter lease and no resale in the open market.
Obviously, if we offer such an option, these restrictions of a longer minimum occupation period, or shorter lease or no resale in the open market will only apply to the new buyers, and will not apply to existing flat owners like the Queenstown lady. I assured her that her dream is safe and I congratulate her on how the HDB policies have benefited her, and that she could now look forward to both a new BTO flat (with 99 year lease) and a significant retirement fund.
Our Singapore ConversationThere must be many like her out there. They have been silent in not voicing their views publicly. I intend to give voice to this majority of flat owners and to invite them to join the Our Singapore Conversation, to articulate their concerns when housing policies are discussed. If the flat owners who form the vast majority remain silent, discussion on housing policies may get wrongly skewed.
She was relieved after I explained to her. She went on to tell me that her son is still single and asked if I could introduce some girl friends to him!
Looks like she will be sleepless no more.
He did not say anything on resale flat. Don't misled.
You need to read ST's full article on KBW's interview.
"Being led by the private sector is like a tail wagging the dog. We should be the price-setter, not the price follower...."
" I can't set market prices in the private sector, but I can influence it..."
KBW
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 11:10
Khaw mulls the idea of no income ceiling for HDB flats..price going up soon?
He mentioned this is to allow more bold ideas coming in. He wants prices of new BTO flat reduce by 30%.
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 11:15
You need to read ST's full article on KBW's interview.
"Being led by the private sector is like a tail wagging the dog. We should be the price-setter, not the price follower...."
" I can't set market prices in the private sector, but I can influence it..."
KBW
Exactly! If we read his message clearly, Khaw is concerned with the current high prices for the mass market as well and he wants to influence it through the pricing of new BTO flats and hence resale flats.
Lol. Let see how price goes when land cost rises.
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 11:19
Lol. Let see how price goes when land cost rises.
You have forgotten (maybe too young to remember) many developers were stucked with their highly bid price lands in the past and how they cut losses during those days. If developers read wrongly how the market is going forward, they will suffer losses just like any investors who buy their PCs during the peak of the cycle.
Exactly! If we read his message clearly, Khaw is concerned with the current high prices for the mass market as well and he wants to influence it through the pricing of new BTO flatsand hence resale flats.
Yap. I think KBW's strategy is pretty clear. He will use BTO's supply and prices to moderate resale flat prices and in turn the mass PC market will moderate too. That's the supply side. Tharman will hit the demand side with CMs. :scared-3:
The market can be stubborn, but the government is just as determined to moderate the market.
You have forgotten (maybe too young to remember) many developers were stucked with their highly bid price lands in the past and how they cut losses during those days. If developers read wrongly how the market is going forward, they will suffer losses just like any investors who buy their PCs during the peak of the cycle.
Hahahaha. Interesting. Pls crash it. Pls i beg u. :p
Hahahaha. Interesting. Pls crash it. Pls i beg u. :p
In ancient, folks pray for rain, in modern days, folks pray for property/stock market to crash.
:doh:
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 11:24
Hahahaha. Interesting. Pls crash it. Pls i beg u. :p
Your wish is not likely to come true. Khaw wants a soft landing so that people have time to react and take actions.
Obviously, if we offer such an option, these restrictions of a longer minimum occupation period, or shorter lease or no resale in the open market will only apply to the NEW buyers, and WILL NOT apply to existing flat owners like the Queenstown lady. I assured her that her dream is safe and I congratulate her on how the HDB policies have benefited her, and that she could now look forward to both a new BTO flat (with 99 year lease) and a significant retirement fund.
Our Singapore ConversationThere must be many like her out there. They have been silent in not voicing their views publicly. I intend to give voice to this majority of flat owners and to invite them to join the Our Singapore Conversation, to articulate their concerns when housing policies are discussed. If the flat owners who form the vast majority remain silent, discussion on housing policies may get wrongly skewed.
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 11:26
Obviously, if we offer such an option, these restrictions of a longer minimum occupation period, or shorter lease or no resale in the open market will only apply to the NEW buyers, and WILL NOT apply to existing flat owners like the Queenstown lady. I assured her that her dream is safe and I congratulate her on how the HDB policies have benefited her, and that she could now look forward to both a new BTO flat (with 99 year lease) and a significant retirement fund.
Our Singapore ConversationThere must be many like her out there. They have been silent in not voicing their views publicly. I intend to give voice to this majority of flat owners and to invite them to join the Our Singapore Conversation, to articulate their concerns when housing policies are discussed. If the flat owners who form the vast majority remain silent, discussion on housing policies may get wrongly skewed.
Khaw wants a soft landing so that people have time to react and take appropriate actions.
I congratulate her on how the HDB policies have benefited her, and that she could now look forward to both a new BTO flat (with 99 year lease) and a significant retirement fund
So we will see new mass market condo next to mrt station to be launched at 580psf like caspian in 2009? :rolleyes:
Allthepies
13-04-13, 11:32
So we will see new mass market condo next to mrt station to be launched at 580psf like caspian in 2009? :rolleyes:
I'm willing to pay 100psf more for the whole stack if really priced so cheaply....;)p
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 11:33
So we will see new mass market condo next to mrt station to be launched at 580psf like caspian in 2009? :rolleyes:
It will takes time if base on policies alone to influence the market. It will be much faster if other external factors stuck us.
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 11:42
Yap. I think KBW's strategy is pretty clear. He will use BTO's supply and prices to moderate resale flat prices and in turn the mass PC market will moderate too. That's the supply side. Tharman will hit the demand side with CMs. :scared-3:
The market can be stubborn, but the government is just as determined to moderate the market.
You have summed up the government's intents very clearly and in simple English.
phantom_opera
13-04-13, 11:48
it is not the talking that matters, where is the action?
can garmen sell GLS cheap? can garmen lose $$ in BTOs ? can construction cost go down from 300psf bk to 150psf?
khaw just warning developers not to be greedy, that's all
it is not the talking that matters, where is the action?
can garmen sell GLS cheap? can garmen lose $$ in BTOs ? can construction cost go down from 300psf bk to 150psf?
khaw just warning developers not to be greedy, that's all
i echo the same sentiments - talk is kinda cheap, and its track record of fulfilling rhetoric discussions had not been overwhelming consistent. I will place my money (and vote) when I see clear tangible action plan and results though
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 11:56
There are many ways for the government to increase its tax revenue. If people are spending less on housing, they have more to pay in term of other taxes such as GST, income tax etc etc. If revenues from land selling is costing more social and political hardships in the longer term, no government or political party will want to dig their own graves.
Yes! the government is certainly giving warning to greedy developers. The era of high profits and increasing property prices are coming to an end due to slower economic and hence wages growth in the years ahead.
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 11:58
i echo the same sentiments - talk is kinda cheap, and its track record of fulfilling rhetoric discussions had not been overwhelming consistent. I will place my money (and vote) when I see clear tangible action plan and results though
I urge you to be a little more patient. You may benefit from it.
Then again, in investment, one also needs to move in front of the herds.
Hahahaha. Interesting. Pls crash it. Pls i beg u. :p
crash so foreigners can buy...:cool:
I urge you to be a little more patient. You may benefit from it.
Then again, in investment, one also needs to move in front of the herds.
sounds like good advice for marriage...:D:D:D
They been saying all this since CM1. If had listen to them would be :banghead::banghead::banghead:
A crash will be a good one to serve a great slap to speculators and inspired landlords who own several properties.
A crash will be a good one to serve a great slap to speculators and inspired landlords who own several properties.
This is nonsense. Just because a landlord manage by his own fortitude and expertise and risk taking to own more than one property does not mean he is deserving of this - just as your very own inaction had led you to not purchase a private property.
To be blatantly frank with you - your posts of late are somewhat childish and lack maturity of thought. I am also an owner of just a property, does not mean that I downplay on others just so I can benefit and all others fail. Reflect on yourself and not expect someone to hand over things to u on a platter - be a man and man up please.
Mass market condo will be the first to be hit given the large no. of units sold at relatively high prices in the last couple of years. They are closing up the $psf gap to CCR.
Yap. I think KBW's strategy is pretty clear. He will use BTO's supply and prices to moderate resale flat prices and in turn the mass PC market will moderate too. That's the supply side. Tharman will hit the demand side with CMs. :scared-3:
The market can be stubborn, but the government is just as determined to moderate the market.
This is nonsense. Just because a landlord manage by his own fortitude and expertise and risk taking to own more than one property does not mean he is deserving of this - just as your very own inaction had led you to not purchase a private property.
To be blatantly frank with you - your posts of late are somewhat childish and lack maturity of thought. I am also an owner of just a property, does not mean that I downplay on others just so I can benefit and all others fail. Reflect on yourself and not expect someone to hand over things to u on a platter - be a man and man up please.
He is an example of all the recent noises about high property prices, because of vested interest to want to buy cheap and becoming illogical.
phantom_opera
13-04-13, 16:16
how does removing income cap for hdb help to cool property prices?
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 17:11
how does removing income cap for hdb help to cool property prices?
Removing income ceiling for new BTO flat means that high income earners can now also buy new BTO flats and not having to buy resale HDB flats or mass market condos. Hence, more demand for BTO flats, less demand for resale flats and private condos. Prices of BTO flats are within the control of HDB. The effect is prices for mass market condos and resale flats will be moderated.
Revert MOP to 10 years is one of the most effective measures.
I guess HDB BTO construction costs is about $200 psf?
it is not the talking that matters, where is the action?
can garmen sell GLS cheap? can garmen lose $$ in BTOs ? can construction cost go down from 300psf bk to 150psf?
khaw just warning developers not to be greedy, that's all
Revert MOP to 10 years is one of the most effective measures.
reverting to MOP 10 years not as selling off BTO and remove income cap effective. noone go for resale, resale will gotta come down. 1 month 1 viewing
all will cheong for BTO and renovate swee swee and can afford drive supercars for high earners:D
They can help to reduce cost by providing only sink, WCs, basins minus finishes, doors, etc.
I guess HDB BTO construction costs is about $200 psf?
You guys can considering volunteering yourself in the national conversation on housing issues with mr khaw.
if BTO is open for all citizens and PRs- I am sure demand will spike up and all will do nice nice renovation like PC style regardless of location. I am sure will want to jump in also - then demand > supply, pple start to blame the government again for failing to ensure everyone has a BTO though :beats-me-man:
..we will have to wait till the Cows go home before we see any price correction...if MOP is is increase to 10 yrs, if new HDBs can only sell to govt....what do you think would be the value of existing non-restricted HDBs? Do you think these young generations just want a roof over their head? Do you think these ambitious young guns would go for the most affordable unit? Do you think they will remain satisfied with their first purchase for the rest of their lives? Wishful mooing......
Did you hear what the guy who said hdb is an investment tool. Rent out hdb at $2900/mth and stay in a condo. He seems to mean it is part of garment duty. :doh:
Amber Woods
13-04-13, 17:47
if BTO is open for all citizens and PRs- I am sure demand will spike up and all will do nice nice renovation like PC style regardless of location. I am sure will want to jump in also - then demand > supply, pple start to blame the government again for failing to ensure everyone has a BTO though :beats-me-man:
As long as supply can meet demand and not allowing the renting of whole HDB flats will tame the demand for new BTO flats.
Mr Khaw had mentioned that the government wants to ensure its ability to meet uuexpected demand by building before order. I believe Mr Khaw has aready had his game plan and wanting the public to further discuss for their buying in.
Hdb is certainly monitoring the rental market as owner used to renew rental online 4 years but reduce to 3 years now.
As long as supply can meet demand and not allowing the renting of whole HDB flats will tame the demand for new BTO flats.
Mr Khaw had mentioned that the government wants to ensure its ability to meet uuexpected demand by building before order. I believe Mr Khaw has aready had his game plan and wanting the public to further discuss for their buying in.
This morning when some agents were promoting hdbs beside a wet market, I told myself how good it would be if I could buy another unit. So, those who want HDB price to drop in the near term, be patient.
However, I would tell my children never buy BTO. It would be much better to buy a second-hand HDB at a nice, mature area. I was locked by my enbloced HDB for 8 years (from announcement till metting MOP). I know what it means.
so, do not worry about the demand of BTO wihtout income limit.
phantom_opera
13-04-13, 21:25
right now the HDB BTO cap is 10k family income ... if removed, the it will only increase competition for mature estate BTOs ... that's all
then no need ECs liao loh
Did you hear what the guy who said hdb is an investment tool. Rent out hdb at $2900/mth and stay in a condo. He seems to mean it is part of garment duty. :doh:
Yea! Saw that!
I think HDB rental proceeds should be taxed at 40% of gross rental.
Why should the country sell a subsidized flat to citizens for them to earn rental income at current market rate? Then what about the rest? They should tax these people 40% and give the money to the poor folks staying in 1-BR HDB. The same theory as they tax people who are buying 2nd 3rd PC.
Those who are able to move beyond HDB should pay more taxes on their existing HDB rentals.
Can someone go to the National Conversation and tell the Minister that ?
I dont think they will allow an Office Boy to be part of the conversation - too low level.
DKSG
Yea! Saw that!
I think HDB rental proceeds should be taxed at 40% of gross rental.
Why should the country sell a subsidized flat to citizens for them to earn rental income at current market rate? Then what about the rest? They should tax these people 40% and give the money to the poor folks staying in 1-BR HDB. The same theory as they tax people who are buying 2nd 3rd PC.
Those who are able to move beyond HDB should pay more taxes on their existing HDB rentals.
Can someone go to the National Conversation and tell the Minister that ?
I dont think they will allow an Office Boy to be part of the conversation - too low level.
DKSG
What if the flat is bought from resale market with no subisdy plus COV and rented out? Should they be subjected to the same rules? Just want to make the point that not everyone enjoys govt subsidies on HDB housing, and hence it may be unfair to impose an across the board restriction on everyone.
delirious_jeff
14-04-13, 01:34
Did you hear what the guy who said hdb is an investment tool. Rent out hdb at $2900/mth and stay in a condo. He seems to mean it is part of garment duty. :doh:
Why not? Bought HDB cheap more than 5 yrs ago, fully paid up... Now renting it out FTs and we stay in condo with mortgage monthly repayments fully paid for by FTs. :cheers6:
right now the HDB BTO cap is 10k family income ... if removed, the it will only increase competition for mature estate BTOs ... that's all
then no need ECs liao loh
That why he said non mature estate Bto 30% cheaper.
Actually I think what he say more effective than a cm:scared-4:
That why he said non mature estate Bto 30% cheaper.
Actually I think what he say more effective than a cm:scared-4:
if he keeps repeating this with no impending definite timeline - machiam like crying wolf all the time leh heh
phantom_opera
14-04-13, 09:20
non mature hdb far from mrt is of course 30pc cheaper, but if I am young Kok high flyers I want duxton, Dawson or min bishan
it is mbt who spoilt the market by having Dawson n duxton last time
if u notice all the EC location cmi, if khaw is smart is release one EC next to mrt once a year to make young Kok happy enough, non mature bto cmi
phantom_opera
14-04-13, 09:23
young Kok can pay, just look at city life EC
but bishan EC is what they want
garmen dun want to release EC near mrt lah, land too valuable
most young koks high flyers are either lawyers, doctors, traders or personal bankers, work in shenton way but stay at punggol? use your brain lah
thomastansb
14-04-13, 09:26
I still prefer last time old lee style. HDB only for staying. You financial difficulties, sure. You rent 1 room out. You want to rent the whole flat out and you stay private, go F yourself.
What if the flat is bought from resale market with no subisdy plus COV and rented out? Should they be subjected to the same rules? Just want to make the point that not everyone enjoys govt subsidies on HDB housing, and hence it may be unfair to impose an across the board restriction on everyone.
Finally, Mr Khaw is showing his cards. With supply fast catching up (or already caught up) with demand, Mr Khaw is now in a stronger position to contain the inflated property prices.
He spelted out very clearly the following:
1. HDB with 80% of the market share will now become the price-setter and not price-follower.
2. Cannot let private developers dictate the sizes of apartments and prices of the property market.
Towards this end, Mr Khaw is doing the following:
1. Bring down the prices of new BTO HDB flats (within his control)
2. Bring down the prices of resale HDB flats through policy changes and low entry prices of BTO flats (within his control and influence)
3.Influence the prices of mass market condos as price-setter for resale HDB flats and BTO flats.
4. Influence the prices of mid private condos through the moderation of prices of HDB resale flats and mass market condos.
Mr Khaw has been consistent in his plan since the day he became Minister of MND. With supply now catching up with demand, Mr Khaw is taking the market to the next phase of restructuring; just like he did when he was tasked to restructure various government hospitals in the early 90s'.
The reasons people are still packing the showflats today is according to Mr Khaw, "it has not "sunk in" for Singaporeans that the era of huge capital gains for property gains is at an end, with slower economic and thus wages growth in the years ahead".
People are deeply sold to the idea of asset enhancement during the high growth years and still cannot or slow to adjust to the new reality. The sooner people accept the new reality the better for them. They can make necessary adjustments to their plans and not wait until when everything is cast in stone and you find yourself having to compete with the herds.
2. Cannot let private developers dictate the sizes of apartments and prices of the property market.
Well said, good summary. I think more hidden cards were prepared instead; the right time to show those cards will depend on how long it keeps for those stubborn people to adjust new reality.
This is the group which khaw will be reviewing.
Why not? Bought HDB cheap more than 5 yrs ago, fully paid up... Now renting it out FTs and we stay in condo with mortgage monthly repayments fully paid for by FTs. :cheers6:
Amber Woods
14-04-13, 11:36
Well said, good summary. I think more hidden cards were prepared instead; the right time to show those cards will depend on how long it keeps for those stubborn people to adjust new reality.
I think if I am a property agent, I would be telling my clients to sell now while the price is still high. I will still be able to earn my keep instead of the present state where nobody want to sell or buy and my earnings suffer.
Ppl are not stubborn per se when they pick up more than one property. It is more to do with the macro economic situation.
His job is to make hdb affordable. And making private property affordable or intervene too much on the free market is extremely unwise especially when sin is a very open market!
If he is worry about the bubble, that is the job of the other guy, not him...:2cents:
Bear in mind that this is happening everywhere even in Bangkok, Manila, etc...if we attempted to stop the regional investment trend, it will only do harm in the longer term!:p
In my opinion, when he has control over the supply and price of hdb now, he better watch out and be careful, any wrong step will only hurt his reputation.:)
Well said, good summary. I think more hidden cards were prepared instead; the right time to show those cards will depend on how long it keeps for those stubborn people to adjust new reality.
I think if I am a property agent, I would be telling my clients to sell now while the price is still high. I will still be able to earn my keep instead of the present state where nobody want to sell or buy and my earnings suffer.
Owners are equally stubborn people who need time to adjust new reality. They will not sell at a lose/without gain/little gain for sure, unless they find better investment opportunity elsewhere, or they worry running into a financial difficulty in future.
Amber Woods
14-04-13, 11:50
In my opinion, when he has control over the supply and price of hdb now, he better watch out and be careful, any wrong step will only hurt his reputation.:)
In my view, Mr Khaw has nothing to fear. He is "too old" to be the next PM (he is not competing for the PM job). He is an extremely experienced civil servant and politician and has great support all round. As Chairman of PAP, he commands a lot of respect within the party. He is not afraid of doing the right things and offending others.
We are fortunate to have humble people like Mr Khaw, Mr Heng (Education Minister) and Therman in the cabinet.
i)His job is to make hdb affordable. And making private property affordable or intervene too much on the free market is extremely unwise especially when sin is a very open market!
ii)If he is worry about the bubble, that is the job of the other guy, not him...:2cents:
i) Right, he should never disturb the "very open market" directly. Also, he has clearly mentioned that his plan is to protect the 80%. The PC’s pricing, if it was inflated one, just like the private decide the "up" or "down", they need no help/protection over bubble issue after all.
ii) Please take note, they don't work alone, inter-ministry partnership was often seem on big issues in Singapore.
Amber Woods
14-04-13, 12:07
i) Right, he should never disturb the "very open market" directly. Also, he has clearly mentioned that his plan is to protect the 80%. The PC’s pricing, if it was inflated one, just like the private decide the "up" or "down", they need no help/protection over bubble issue after all.
ii) Please take note, they don't work alone, inter-ministry partnership was often seem on big issues in Singapore.
Mr Khaw was reported in CNA that the imbalance supply and demand for properties had pushed prices to bubble-like level & the govt will pull all stops to deflate the bubble, without causing it to burst suddenly
I think Therman and Khaw are working very well together to tackle the problem.
Government is always concern with asset bubble. It is the government's core responsibility to maintain financial sustainability.
A crash or "correction" as what many of you prefer to call, is imminent. It is already in the pipelines; I guess my constant flurry of emails are being answered and responds by Mr. Khaw indirectly.
I must thank the Soh and Ye for imparting me the greatest skillset of this century - whistleblowing.
May the correction (which most of you prefer to call) comes and bestow me and us (which many of you are trying to deny by acting righteous) the grand opportunities to upgrade to our ideal home.
My ideal home to get a landed/private property in Mt Sinai.
Ya they work together and one try to suppress the property price while one try to maximize the tender price of land sales...
Works very well right, sell high high to developer and then try to work on pulling the trigger and say that there could be a bubble...what a ironical situation...do u guy see it? Anyway, my opinion only...:o
If they really want to control the private property pricing, get the lowest bid with excellent concept to build the project...
Win win...
i) Right, he should never disturb the "very open market" directly. Also, he has clearly mentioned that his plan is to protect the 80%. The PC’s pricing, if it was inflated one, just like the private decide the "up" or "down", they need no help/protection over bubble issue after all.
ii) Please take note, they don't work alone, inter-ministry partnership was often seem on big issues in Singapore.
Wake up la bro...if u want mt Sinai, work hard for it, and not sitting there and what for mkt to crash....I hope u are not representative of your generation, if not, we will all die in your generation hand...
I also want a GCB...but I work hard, if cannot, then get something more realistic for yourselves.
A crash or "correction" as what many of you prefer to call, is imminent. It is already in the pipelines; I guess my constant flurry of emails are being answered and responds by Mr. Khaw indirectly.
I must thank the Soh and Ye for imparting me the greatest skillset of this century - whistleblowing.
May the correction (which most of you prefer to call) comes and bestow me and us (which many of you are trying to deny by acting righteous) the grand opportunities to upgrade to our ideal home.
My ideal home to get a landed/private property in Mt Sinai.
A crash or "correction" as what many of you prefer to call, is imminent. It is already in the pipelines; I guess my constant flurry of emails are being answered and responds by Mr. Khaw indirectly.
I must thank the Soh and Ye for imparting me the greatest skillset of this century - whistleblowing.
May the correction (which most of you prefer to call) comes and bestow me and us (which many of you are trying to deny by acting righteous) the grand opportunities to upgrade to our ideal home.
My ideal home to get a landed/private property in Mt Sinai.
Once u had your wish of Mt Sinai. Are u comfortable with the current loan restriction to finance your loan. Or perhaps u want 80% loan in 30 years back?
Once u had your wish of Mt Sinai. Are u comfortable with the current loan restriction to finance your loan. Or perhaps u want 80% loan in 30 years back?
Hi...I will dispose all HDB flats and acquire the ideal unit/landed in Mt Sinai.
As mentioned before, I want to house all members under one roof.
Hi...I will dispose all HDB flats and acquire the ideal unit/landed in Mt Sinai.
As mentioned before, I want to house all members under one roof.
I see, u are prepared to pay it in cash. Shouldn't u sell all your HDB flats now that the price is good? Rather than waiting when the price crashed. How do u time your selling of your HDB flats?
I see, u are prepared to pay it in cash. Shouldn't u sell all your HDB flats now that the price is good? Rather than waiting when the price crashed. How do u time your selling of your HDB flats?
Hi...I do not intend to time in selling it until I secure and confirm Mt Sinai acquisition.
Meanwhile, I can only sit back waiting for a crash, or aka Correction (As many forumers want it to be called). A severe correction will just serve the right antidote to this vicious cycle we are running in now.
I do not have the backing of Soh and Ye of 30% downpayment for a 99LH private unit in far end of Singapore, but I do have a core family backing to house and united all family members under a roof.
We are currently residing in Tiong Bahru flat with all members.
Ya they work together and one try to suppress the property price while one try to maximize the tender price of land sales...
Works very well right, sell high high to developer and then try to work on pulling the trigger and say that there could be a bubble...what a ironical situation...do u guy see it? Anyway, my opinion only...:o
If they really want to control the private property pricing, get the lowest bid with excellent concept to build the project...
Win win...
You sound to me as someone who does not understand how the economic of the business/commercial world works. The government is very transparent in its macro management of its tender system. It spells out what the government's objectives are to the market. If the market continue to defy government's thinking and continue to bid high, they are taking the risk just like any investor who decide to buy at current peak price. Didn't the government toying with the idea of having more sites for tender at any one time hoping that developers will bid cautionly even though the government is not obligated to do so?
The business and commercial world is all about risk and return. Developers are taking risk to bid for the land knowing very well what the giovernment's intents. This is what "free market" is given the imperfect market environment.
Hi...I do not intend to time in selling it until I secure and confirm Mt Sinai acquisition.
Meanwhile, I can only sit back waiting for a crash, or aka Correction (As many forumers want it to be called). A severe correction will just serve the right antidote to this vicious cycle we are running in now.
I do not have the backing of Soh and Ye of 30% downpayment for a 99LH private unit in far end of Singapore, but I do have a core family backing to house and united all family members under a roof.
We are currently residing in Tiong Bahru flat with all members.
The problem is when the price of Mt Sinai is crashing, so will all of your HDBs.
Now that the price of Mt Sinai is high, all of your HDBs are high too.
So there is no significant different between buying now or when the price crash.
Unless of course u sell the HDBs high now and wait for the Mt Sinai to crash
The problem is when the price of Mt Sinai is crashing, so will all of your HDBs.
Now that the price of Mt Sinai is high, all of your HDBs are high too.
So there is no significant different between buying now or when the price crash.
Hi...the base selling of the HDB 5 room flats will be of reasonable range even when there is a downfall. I will not speculate as I am accumulating the disposal income, and preparing for the crash aka correction to come.
The base price of a HDB (Price structure) is somewhat more defensive and robust compared to the private units.
phantom_opera
14-04-13, 13:50
The problem is when the price of Mt Sinai is crashing, so will all of your HDBs.
Now that the price of Mt Sinai is high, all of your HDBs are high too.
So there is no significant different between buying now or when the price crash.
Unless of course u sell the HDBs high now and wait for the Mt Sinai to crash
rent a landed at ubin send old folk there, sell three hdbs, rent a hdb rm for working folks, wait for crash lol
You need to read ST's full article on KBW's interview.
"Being led by the private sector is like a tail wagging the dog. We should be the price-setter, not the price follower...."
" I can't set market prices in the private sector, but I can influence it..."
KBW
Years ago Tampines DBSS was a price-setter for HDB flat,
Then came EC as other price-setter for sandwich class, 750psf Esparina kick off another wave of EC rush.
You are the 2nd one I ask to wake up today...sin is a very small market, if investor cannot buy here, they buy in neighboring countries...so what have they achieved? I can agree that it is all about risk and return like what u said, "The business and commercial world is all about risk and return. Developers are taking risk to bid for the land knowing very well what the government's intents." so why should they curb this curb that?? See, it is not what u mention, nothing is ideal like where u are living in. This is a real world with many variables...if the garmen allow the developers to calculate their risk, then they should do likewise for any investors. They don't buy here they buy elsewhere...enough said. :2cents:
You sound to me as someone who does not understand how the economic of the business/commercial world works. The government is very transparent in its macro management of its tender system. It spells out what the government's objectives are to the market. If the market continue to defy government's thinking and continue to bid high, they are taking the risk just like any investor who decide to buy at current peak price. Didn't the government toying with the idea of having more sites for tender at any one time hoping that developers will bid cautionly even though the government is not obligated to do so?
The business and commercial world is all about risk and return. Developers are taking risk to bid for the land knowing very well what the giovernment's intents. This is what "free market" is given the imperfect market environment.
I urge you to be a little more patient. You may benefit from it.
Then again, in investment, one also needs to move in front of the herds.
Usually the slower ones will ask the front runner to slow down so that they can catch up or get ahead instead of they themselves running faster.
Hi...the base selling of the HDB 5 room flats will be of reasonable range even when there is a downfall. I will not speculate as I am accumulating the disposal income, and preparing for the crash aka correction to come.
The base price of a HDB (Price structure) is somewhat more defensive and robust compared to the private units.
I think you are being modest about the power of your whisle blowing. U should have more confident and start selling all your HDBs. That way u can maximised your gain. Maybe u could get 2 Mt Sinai. Think about it, its not too late to cash out all your HDBs.
You are the 2nd one I ask to wake up today...sin is a very small market, if investor cannot buy here, they buy in neighboring countries...so what have they achieved? I can agree that it is all about risk and return like what u said, "The business and commercial world is all about risk and return. Developers are taking risk to bid for the land knowing very well what the government's intents." so why should they curb this curb that?? See, it is not what u mention, nothing is ideal like where u are living in. This is a real world with many variables...if the garmen allow the developers to calculate their risk, then they should do likewise for any investors. They don't buy here they buy elsewhere...enough said. :2cents:
Government's intents are very clear. When developers or people defy and continue to bid high or buy at current peak, curbings are necessary to ensure financial and economic sustainability. The developers and buyers all know that more curbings are in the pipelines if they continue to defy. The "game" is very transparent. Government needs to regulate to maintain market order. Many of the developers are branching out to overseas markets knowing the risk / return in Singapore is narrowing. This is free market at its best under imperfect market condition.
Yea! Saw that!
I think HDB rental proceeds should be taxed at 40% of gross rental.
Why should the country sell a subsidized flat to citizens for them to earn rental income at current market rate? Then what about the rest? They should tax these people 40% and give the money to the poor folks staying in 1-BR HDB. The same theory as they tax people who are buying 2nd 3rd PC.
Those who are able to move beyond HDB should pay more taxes on their existing HDB rentals.
Can someone go to the National Conversation and tell the Minister that ?
I dont think they will allow an Office Boy to be part of the conversation - too low level.
DKSG
How about also taxing those who buy pc who rent out to people where govt has spent millions on infrastructure, eg Changi Business Park. After all, it's tax payers money that govt spent on developing these infrastructure which could be used to give to those staying in 1-room flats. All are in a way benefiting from taxpayers money, just differently. So why should only HDB rental be tax higher than pte ppty? Dun make sense leh :beats-me-man:
phantom_opera
14-04-13, 14:40
changi biz park growth speed is neck breaking, much faster than the much hyped JLD
Swiss bakery, Hans with illy coffee, nz grills n bar, table manners are among the new shops
the new tenants all big big names like Cisco, wipro, infosys, credit suisse, emc
How about also taxing those who buy pc who rent out to people where govt has spent millions on infrastructure, eg Changi Business Park. After all, it's tax payers money that govt spent on developing these infrastructure which could be used to give to those staying in 1-room flats. All are in a way benefiting from taxpayers money, just differently. So why should only HDB rental be tax higher than pte ppty? Dun make sense leh :beats-me-man:
makes sense if u dont own or rent ur hdb...:cool:
Hahaha....ppl standing at different positions will have different views....whatever policies that they going to implement, it should not affects the existing ones...besides, they should not change their original intent...letting ppl rent out, let asset appreciate were some of those unwritten objectives....my opinion. ;) many old folks unlock their asset by renting out and getting passive income for their retirement.
How about also taxing those who buy pc who rent out to people where govt has spent millions on infrastructure, eg Changi Business Park. After all, it's tax payers money that govt spent on developing these infrastructure which could be used to give to those staying in 1-room flats. All are in a way benefiting from taxpayers money, just differently. So why should only HDB rental be tax higher than pte ppty? Dun make sense leh :beats-me-man:
changi biz park growth speed is neck breaking, much faster than the much hyped JLD
Swiss bakery, Hans with illy coffee, nz grills n bar, table manners are among the new shops
the new tenants all big big names like Cisco, wipro, infosys, credit suisse, emc
i heard MUSTAFA cafe going to open there due to OVERWHELMING demand:scared-1::scared-1::scared-1:
phantom_opera
14-04-13, 14:58
i heard MUSTAFA cafe going to open there due to OVERWHELMING demand:scared-1::scared-1::scared-1:
won't be surprised, already many Indian restaurants here
Hahaha....ppl standing at different positions will have different views....whatever policies that they going to implement, it should not affects the existing ones...besides, they should not change their original intent...letting ppl rent out, let asset appreciate were some of those unwritten objectives....my opinion. ;) many old folks unlock their asset by renting out and getting passive income for their retirement.
That's my point. It's very difficult to please everybody and each group of people will have their own agenda and interests to protect. I seriously think its actually a mistake to have a 'National Conversation.' Sometimes, the govt just got to do what it's got to do instead of yielding to the loudest but not necessary the needy group. Often times, the needy is too busy trying to make ends meet to than surfing Temasek Review or kpkb on FB.
http://www.mnd.gov.sg/HomeSweetHome/
i)That's my point. It's very difficult to please everybody and each group of people will have their own agenda and interests to protect.
ii) I seriously think its actually a mistake to have a 'National Conversation.' Sometimes, the govt just got to do what it's got to do instead of yielding to the loudest but not necessary the needy group. Often times, the needy is too busy trying to make ends meet to than surfing Temasek Review or kpkb on FB.
i):cheers4:
ii) I think the needy still KpKb, they do it everywhere but very inappropriately most times, they are desperate and disorganized but really have the “balls” as many were already pushed beyond their limit. My view, the poorest are the angriest people around. Maybe, also not well represented as well.
delirious_jeff
14-04-13, 16:04
As long as interest are this low, lower than HDB concessionary loan rates, it would be interesting to see how MND going to bring prices down.
several months after Mr Khaw took step in 2011, he also said that the property price had finally been under control, and he felt relaxed. That time,
I trusted him.
Today's Zaobao cited similar viewpoints from Mr Khaw again. This time, I sneered to myself: if only Mr Khaw was so powerful to control the market which is influenced not only by internal factors but external factors.
Mr Khaw is human, not God.
Mr khaw is a politician, not man in the street.
won't be surprised, already many Indian restaurants here
Bad move for them. Lots of Indians working in CBP have recently moved out of Singapore back to India and more to follow suit.
phantom_opera
14-04-13, 20:32
Bad move for them. Lots of Indians working in CBP have recently moved out of Singapore back to India and more to follow suit.
really? they got fired or EP renewals rejected?
Crash - a great way to reset infinity to zero.
Crash - a great way to reset infinity to zero.
:cheers5: After a "reset", will comes another cycle of bull run giving those agents/investors another chance to make money.
The cycle goes on and on..history repeating.
really? they got fired or EP renewals rejected?
Asked to relocate back as part of offshoring.
Asked to relocate back as part of offshoring.
A sign that Singapore is moving towards higher value add industries!
Good for the country.
DKSG
The problem is when the price of Mt Sinai is crashing, so will all of your HDBs.
Now that the price of Mt Sinai is high, all of your HDBs are high too.
So there is no significant different between buying now or when the price crash.
Unless of course u sell the HDBs high now and wait for the Mt Sinai to crash
There is a difference, the amount of drop is difference. it is still worth to buy low a GCB and sell low a HDB than buying high a GCB and selling high a HDB.
Upgrade during low time and downgrade during high time. Make sense?
Upgrade during low time and downgrade during high time. Make sense?
Dont forget that we are in a situation where expensive condos are getting cheaper and cheaper condos are getting expensive.
Upgrade sounds like the better strategy.
DKSG
A sign that Singapore is moving towards higher value add industries!
Good for the country.
DKSG
Those are fairly decent pay IT jobs, I am not so sure if losing these jobs permanently is good for Singapore.
With sgd taking an appreciating stance there is lots of pressure for MNC to keep cost down, afterall expenses are calculated in foreign currency back in the HQ so Singapore sticks out like a sore thumb.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/164663_10200170418076095_1045979870_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/164663_10200170418076095_1045979870_n.jpg
i see a waste of taxpayers money on the greens
Dont forget that we are in a situation where expensive condos are getting cheaper and cheaper condos are getting expensive.
Upgrade sounds like the better strategy.
DKSG
this makes sense - HDBs getting more exp still have COV component, pple sell condo do valuation also most of the time not be able to sell at above valuation but most of the time is at a discount of the valuation price
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/164663_10200170418076095_1045979870_n.jpg
A nation with perhaps 10+ years of economic growth or boom. An even longer period of social costs.
this makes sense - HDBs getting more exp still have COV component, pple sell condo do valuation also most of the time not be able to sell at above valuation but most of the time is at a discount of the valuation price
I think Mr DKSG means to offloading OCR to buy CCR?
Compared with condo, HDB is still much cheaper for middle class people.
Actually, some new HDBs are very nice, and more confortable to stay in that the cramped condos.
on a side note, this talk about de-linking new BTO prices from resale HDB transaction is BS.
as long as HDB refuses to publish a breakdown of the BTO costs, we will never know what the land price is pegged to.
CondoInterested
15-04-13, 11:09
...
May the correction (which most of you prefer to call) comes and bestow me and us (which many of you are trying to deny by acting righteous) the grand opportunities to upgrade to our ideal home.
...
What you wish upon other people will soon comes back to you. What goes round comes around.
Since you love the two C (crash and correction) so much, you will be blessed with further Cs of say 50% after you have upgraded and bank start asking for top up.
CondoInterested
15-04-13, 11:30
...
I think HDB rental proceeds should be taxed at 40% of gross rental.
...
Be careful of making such sweeping statement.
What the other bro. say is correct, why tax only hdb rental, it should be all rental.
What about retirees living in his or her own house renting out other rooms and depends on it for survival. Should we tax that? If so the authorities are heartless.
on a side note, this talk about de-linking new BTO prices from resale HDB transaction is BS.
as long as HDB refuses to publish a breakdown of the BTO costs, we will never know what the land price is pegged to.
Had this from a main con for HDB back in early 90s.
The actual construction cost per unit in a project involving a cluster of flats was about 50k-70k depending on how high, the design, surroundings like multiple storey car-park and landscaping. Average new HDB price about $90k - $250k for 4rm-exec.
The building cost should be easily doubled by now in view of materials (+50%), labour (+50%), other inflationary running cost (~30%). That may translate to costing from $50 psf to $130 psf present day (say 1000 sqft per unit). Main contractor also want to make some profit for shareholders else all contractor become like that P L, how?
Including cost of land now (also debatable in public housing context), the actual cost of HDB should be avg $250 (land) + $130 (construction) = $380 psf so any unit sold lower than $400k would be a loss to HDB as a developer. In this context, HDB BTO is really subsidised.
As for DBSS, the construction is privatised so we can derive our own conclusion?
As for EC, the entire project is privatised except for govt intervention of land price.
PC, definitely profit driven.
That is the BMT passing out photo right?
A very clear message to the Singaporean and Foreigner Investor - We are the SAFEST in the WORLD :D
Of course, those got negative thinking, will be forever think bad about it, no matter how much effort other contribute.
If not because of CM, many will had buy more property in this wonderful & amazing country! But with CM also good, property price won't crash and it will go up slow & steady :rolleyes:
Good photo, tks Arcachon.
https:
The building cost should be easily doubled by now in view of materials (+50%), labour (+50%), other inflationary running cost (~30%). That may translate to costing from $50 psf to $130 psf present day (say 1000 sqft per unit). Main contractor also want to make some profit for shareholders else all contractor become like that P L, how?
Including cost of land now (also debatable in public housing context), the actual cost of HDB should be avg $250 (land) + $130 (construction) = $380 psf so any unit sold lower than $400k would be a loss to HDB as a developer. In this context, HDB BTO is really subsidised.
it should be the price of land - $250psf. the cost of land should be what the govt purchased the land parcel for, at 1950-70s pricing.
hence, i don't agree that selling a BTO at less than $380psf is a loss to HDB. it is merely booking less profits.
it should be the price of land - $250psf. the cost of land should be what the govt purchased the land parcel for, at 1950-70s pricing.
hence, i don't agree that selling a BTO at less than $380psf is a loss to HDB. it is merely booking less profits.
Of course there will be profit if one take the low land cost. At least the amount is always accounted for in a Stat board. I am not too sure how much of the cost of PH project really translate into the physical construction in other countries. :scared-2:
Selling at 1950-70s land price + present day construction cost?
This model will change the dynamics of real estate in Singapore as there will be lack of monetising of assets from 80% market share of public housing.
I worry that the state of our PH will go to the dogs just like that of other countries with really shoddy looking buildings and paintworks.
The asset enhancement in PH here also comes from the upgrading and high maintenance schedule and standards. The motivation to maintain them well will feed the overall confidence in the country from foreign investment.
Why are the SPR so keen to buy our resale HDB?
I am sure foreigners will want to jump in if they are given the green light?
Selling at 1950-70s land price + present day construction cost?
This model will change the dynamics of real estate in Singapore as there will be lack of monetising of assets from 80% market share of public housing.
I worry that the state of our PH will go to the dogs just like that of other countries with really shoddy looking buildings and paintworks.
The asset enhancement in PH here also comes from the upgrading and high maintenance schedule and standards. The motivation to maintain them well will feed the overall confidence in the country from foreign investment.
Why are the SPR so keen to buy our resale HDB?
I am sure foreigners will want to jump in if they are given the green light?
have no worries about that. the monthly maintennance bills is more than sufficient to provide for the upkeep of the buildings (or else our town councils won't have tens of millions to lose during the lehman brother saga)
as HDB prices don't crash, it's a sure-win, short-cut ticket to riches back during the mid 2000s. all they need to fork out is the downpayment and they sit tight.
it should be the price of land - $250psf. the cost of land should be what the govt purchased the land parcel for, at 1950-70s pricing.
hence, i don't agree that selling a BTO at less than $380psf is a loss to HDB. it is merely booking less profits.
tock cock. expect land to be zero cost.? its national reserves. definitely its at a lost to nation when land are sold to build HDB. thus subsidized. dont get it dont any how say.
tock cock. expect land to be zero cost.? its national reserves. definitely its at a lost to nation when land are sold to build HDB. thus subsidized. dont get it dont any how say.
eh, don't be a moronic mongrel. who on earth said land cost zero??
if you are too stupid to read, let me repeat - govt bought land parcels at 1950s-70s prices.
please show me the calculation how the loss is incurred. by the way, another spelling error WAHAHAHAHA
by definition: loss = the amount by which the purchase price of an asset exceeds the selling price; the loss is realized when the asset is sold
The question is can people salary go back to 1950s or 1970s?
The question is can people salary go back to 1950s or 1970s?
the funnies thing I read today papers. people want price to to be cheap cheap so that their children can buy. but want to retain their assets value so they can sell later.
so who pay ah? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
eh, don't be a moronic mongrel. who on earth said land cost zero??
if you are too stupid to read, let me repeat - govt bought land parcels at 1950s-70s prices.
please show me the calculation how the loss is incurred. by the way, another spelling error WAHAHAHAHA
by definition: loss = the amount by which the purchase price of an asset exceeds the selling price; the loss is realized when the asset is sold
tack cock sing song. So if government buy in 1950-1970s the price paid then no inflation? how abt the land cost in terms of current market value? that is the current cost. when government acquire land it belong to state reservers.
so to sell it at anything less than current value is a lost to reserve. donno how to count talk cock sing song.
tack cock sing song. So if government buy in 1950-1970s the price paid then no inflation? how abt the land cost in terms of current market value? that is the current cost. when government acquire land it belong to state reservers.
so to sell it at anything less than current value is a lost to reserve. donno how to count talk cock sing song.
don't give me the BS about reserve and whatsoever.
if govt and HDB is a for-profit commercial entity, then the argument about opportunity cost makes sense.
what is the ethos of HDB? do you even know what is a social contract between a govt and her citizens? if you can't answer these two questions, please shut up. only know how to quote all the BS rheteoric.
even if we adjust prices for inflation, why is there so much resistance from HDB then to release a breakdown of per unit costs?
tack cock sing song. So if government buy in 1950-1970s the price paid then no inflation? how abt the land cost in terms of current market value? that is the current cost. when government acquire land it belong to state reservers.
so to sell it at anything less than current value is a lost to reserve. donno how to count talk cock sing song.
Best of all reserves that are not accountable to Singaporeans. :D
Got a dumb qns, does govt really pay for the land they build for HDB?????
Got a dumb qns, does govt really pay for the land they build for HDB?????
it's a yes and no.
yes, if they evicted farm/landowners to shift the populace into public housing.
no, if they merely evicted monkeys residing on top of durian trees
don't give me the BS about reserve and whatsoever.
if govt and HDB is a for-profit commercial entity, then the argument about opportunity cost makes sense.
what is the ethos of HDB? do you even know what is a social contract between a govt and her citizens? if you can't answer these two questions, please shut up. only know how to quote all the BS rheteoric.
even if we adjust prices for inflation, why is there so much resistance from HDB then to release a breakdown of per unit costs?
wat a dumbo. when present the fact. then is dont care abt reserve. it national reserves dumb ass. SOLD to hdb for people thus on the books is marked as a lost in reserver. Thus its subsidized. get it? i guess u can't. skull too thick.
wat a dumbo. when present the fact. then is dont care abt reserve. it national reserves dumb ass. SOLD to hdb for people thus on the books is marked as a lost in reserver. Thus its subsidized. get it? i guess u can't. skull too thick.
eh moronic mongrel, the govt is obliged to do so because of her social contract with its citizens.
i have already said, if you can't answer my two fundamental questions - shut up.
govt is not a business, stupid.
Just ask yourself, if you neighbour ask you to help fork out $10K to help buy a EC, will you do so ?
If you answer is NO WAY! Then you got it! Giving subsidy to any group of people means taking money from the rest of the people.
We certainly want to minimise that. As a society, we have norms and conscience, we know that giving subsidies to poor folks who earn less than $1,000 a month for utilities bills is ok.
But giving subsidy to people buying private properties - I think it is a hard sell.
DKSG
eh moronic mongrel, the govt is obliged to do so because of her social contract with its citizens.
i have already said, if you can't answer my two fundamental questions - shut up.
govt is not a business, stupid.
u are just like those people on the papers today asking goverment to make housing cheap for thier children. but hor!!! pls pls dont devalue my home.
LOL.. wat a idiot. So who is paying for it. huh?
ur skull really thick cannot understand. govt is not a business. They already transfer the land to hdb to build HDB. Thus reserve recorded lost. its lost to the nation. Wat talking cock u.. really got roaches in ur head leh. pls go :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: a few times.
Just ask yourself, if you neighbour ask you to help fork out $10K to help buy a EC, will you do so ?
If you answer is NO WAY! Then you got it! Giving subsidy to any group of people means taking money from the rest of the people.
We certainly want to minimise that. As a society, we have norms and conscience, we know that giving subsidies to poor folks who earn less than $1,000 a month for utilities bills is ok.
But giving subsidy to people buying private properties - I think it is a hard sell.
DKSG
aiyah he will tell u wat $10K ? ah kong go pay the 10K! coz its not mine 10K wat. and wat 10K? wat is that? got 10K meh?
dumbo head all air lah.
When tax become 45% then KPKB again.
aiyah he will tell u wat $10K ? ah kong go pay the 10K! coz its not mine 10K wat. and wat 10K? wat is that? got 10K meh?
dumbo head all air lah.
When tax become 45% then KPKB again.
Wah! Your intelligence is also a minority leh!
Ah Kong's $10K is also OUR $10K la! Ah Gong's money is taken from us one.
DKSG
We like your energy, but really useless for you spend time talk to those people who negative and just refuse to admit their mistake.
They will blame everyone except themselve.
Move on best, Bro, don't waste time on them, have a good monday evening.
:D ;) :rolleyes: :cool:
pls go :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: a few times.
Wah! Your intelligence is also a minority leh!
Ah Kong's $10K is also OUR $10K la! Ah Gong's money is taken from us one.
DKSG
precisely. people say hack care reserve wat. :D
We like your energy, but really useless for you spend time talk to those people who negative and just refuse to admit their mistake.
They will blame everyone except themselve.
Move on best, Bro, don't waste time on them, have a good monday evening.
:D ;) :rolleyes: :cool:
LOL.. yeah I think better move on. wast my time right... but something dont say anything it sound like everyone are like them.
LOL.. yeah I think better move on. wast my time right... but something dont say anything it sound like everyone are like them.
U better moved on :rolleyes:
Yes, Move on , Bro.
This forum got many people viewing ,
who is anti-govt,
who just here to spread negative thinking,
who here just to create trouble,
who are from those low standard forum to create bad new of our country, or shout "Crash Crash Crash, let me buy Cheap cheap cheap", everyone know :banghead:
Your effort had been seen, leave the "dog" behind the door please
(oh, we should not insult as Dog are even better then them)
Next time, just ignore them.
We stay positive :cheers1: :D :o :p :cool:
Don't forget we are here to learn about property investment , and hope to find good value soon.
LOL.. yeah I think better move on. wast my time right... but something dont say anything it sound like everyone are like them.
have no worries about that. the monthly maintennance bills is more than sufficient to provide for the upkeep of the buildings (or else our town councils won't have tens of millions to lose during the lehman brother saga).....
Town Council may have been allowed to grow these collected funds through approved fund managers as the interest rate started to stay <3% from 90s. It could be part of a deliberated effort to grow the financial industry then. Thus creating lots of job opportunities and skills for the locals to learn from the more experienced western bankers. Recall those days when CPF were liberalised and suddenly the pools for fund management grew so huge. There was also talk about a famous British Insurance and Fund company managing the reserve for S'pore. It did not work out and finally GIC & Temasek had their own to managed them as the so called SWF now.
Anyway, the 10 mil loss was glaring during the 09 crisis but most did not remember that there were in fact multiple growth in the years leading to that saga. The point is the fund was not mismanaged but performed badly so causing alarm. So managing the risk involved in such public trust is the key.
I am sure all the philanthropic, endowment or opportunity funds were also invested so that they can grow to benefit more generations of needy students etc.
U better moved on :rolleyes:
LOL.. I must take 1 last jab at this guy reserved anal logy.
So say some wise parent or acquired land at $10 land in the 70s and 80s. So base on the anal logy of this guy. the land are cheap mah. so its true cost is $10. where got lost to give. its social contract.
well the parent now in the 2013 is going to craft a will. The land now is worth millions if not more. So is it fair that the parent give Son A the $Million dollar land and give Daughter B $10 ? after all cost is $10 wat. Base on this guy anal logy this is fair. coz its the true cost.
Surely the daughter bay song wat. coz thats not the true value in todays terms what.
So its a lost to the daughter. And this is not a business too wat. social contract between parent and child.
ok I am signing off this topic. no pt waste time on thick skulled dumbos. ah di yos....
Town Council may have been allowed to grow these collected funds through approved fund managers as the interest rate started to stay <3% from 90s. It could be part of a deliberated effort to grow the financial industry then. Thus creating lots of job opportunities and skills for the locals to learn from the more experienced western bankers. Recall those days when CPF were liberalised and suddenly the pools for fund management grew so huge. There was also talk about a famous British Insurance and Fund company managing the reserve for S'pore. It did not work out and finally GIC & Temasek had their own to managed them as the so called SWF now.
Anyway, the 10 mil loss was glaring during the 09 crisis but most did not remember that there were in fact multiple growth in the years leading to that saga. The point is the fund was not mismanaged but performed badly so causing alarm. So managing the risk involved in such public trust is the key.
I am sure all the philanthropic, endowment or opportunity funds were also invested so that they can grow to benefit more generations of needy students etc.
in the first place, TCs are not meant to be investment institutions and we aren't even sure that previous earnings, if any, were shared. if temasek and GIC are examples, then it is a definite no.
the issue is not about the quantum of the loss, but the lack of transparency and accountability. just look at City Harvest saga and how CoC is pursuing the issue.
I think Mr DKSG means to offloading OCR to buy CCR?
Compared with condo, HDB is still much cheaper for middle class people.
Actually, some new HDBs are very nice, and more confortable to stay in that the cramped condos.
that is true also - but first pot of gold for middle class especially now comes with resale HDBs from central areas. Then OCR then later CCR ba i guess. Cannot one shot from HDB to CCR at current market conditions unless buy MM to stay I guess
u are just like those people on the papers today asking goverment to make housing cheap for thier children. but hor!!! pls pls dont devalue my home.
LOL.. wat a idiot. So who is paying for it. huh?
ur skull really thick cannot understand. govt is not a business. They already transfer the land to hdb to build HDB. Thus reserve recorded lost. its lost to the nation. Wat talking cock u.. really got roaches in ur head leh. pls go :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: a few times.
eh moronic mongrel, you haven't answered about the social contract so shut up.
please lah, look at your track record
1- "manufacturing-isn't-a-pillar-of-SG-economy" claim: kenna smack by MTI which openly stated in the papers otherwise
2- all your BS about healthcare: kenna smack by MoH which openly stated they are forking out more without increasing taxes
LOL.. I must take 1 last jab at this guy reserved anal logy.
So say some wise parent or acquired land at $10 land in the 70s and 80s. So base on the anal logy of this guy. the land are cheap mah. so its true cost is $10. where got lost to give. its social contract.
well the parent now in the 2013 is going to craft a will. The land now is worth millions if not more. So is it fair that the parent give Son A the $Million dollar land and give Daughter B $10 ? after all cost is $10 wat. Base on this guy anal logy this is fair. coz its the true cost.
Surely the daughter bay song wat. coz thats not the true value in todays terms what.
So its a lost to the daughter. And this is not a business too wat. social contract between parent and child.
ok I am signing off this topic. no pt waste time on thick skulled dumbos. ah di yos....
wah piang, fail example.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
truly beyond stupid.
show us the govt is practising inequality in their housing policies toward the citizens. if a father chooses to practice inequality, it is a family matter. but if he chooses NOT to provide the basic neccessities for his child, the govt the legal power to remove the child from his care.
answer my question, moron, what is the social contract between a govt and her citizens? if you can't, let me guide you further - is public housing a neccessity or a luxury item?
answer these questions, before you go on about your opportunity cost BS.
wah piang, fail example.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
truly beyond stupid.
show us the govt is practising inequality in their housing policies toward the citizens. if a father chooses to practice inequality, it is a family matter. but if he chooses NOT to provide the basic neccessities for his child, the govt the legal power to remove the child from his care.
answer my question, moron, what is the social contract between a govt and her citizens? if you can't, let me guide you further - is public housing a neccessity or a luxury item?
answer these questions, before you go on about your opportunity cost BS.
pls answer my question on reserve. u are asking for inequality here boy boy. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Here is $10 nah.... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: go get urself a starbucks ok. KPKB
pls answer my question on reserve. u are asking for inequality here boy boy. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Here is $10 nah.... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: go get urself a starbucks ok. KPKB
eh moron, i answered your question already even before you asked it. hence, answer my question about social contract before you spout nonsense.
and your example is of inequality, please learn to read. kenna smacked by MTI and MoH, still want to make noise. oh ya, that's what empty vessels and moronic mongrels do
eh moron, i answered your question already even before you asked it. hence, answer my question about social contract before you spout nonsense.
and your example is of inequality, please learn to read. kenna smacked by MTI and MoH, still want to make noise. oh ya, that's what empty vessels and moronic mongrels do
Let me quote u what Abraham Lincoln said
"You Cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot help the wage-earner by pulling the wage-payer." - Abraham Lincoln
I dont need to say more dumb ass.
Let me quote u what Abraham Lincoln said
"You Cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot help the wage-earner by pulling the wage-payer." - Abraham Lincoln
I dont need to say more dumb ass.
eh moronic mongrel, you still haven't answered my questions.
why don't you start quoting from the bible, quran too? that's better than conjuring stupid examples
your pathetic track record speaks volume
in the first place, TCs are not meant to be investment institutions and we aren't even sure that previous earnings, if any, were shared. if temasek and GIC are examples, then it is a definite no.
the issue is not about the quantum of the loss, but the lack of transparency and accountability. just look at City Harvest saga and how CoC is pursuing the issue.
If an organisation have $2M in coffer and its obligation is at most $50k a month, it will take about 40 months to use up $2M.
Meanwhile, through some guidelines with proper jurisdiction & prudence, the organisation can engage a investment company who are able to grow $1M at min. 5% pa which translate to $50k to either pass back to consumer or build other essential facilities in the estate.
Does this sound like a good plan?
Not nice to comment on the recent saga as it is still undergoing investigation and involves religious entity. But that also should not discourage the public from giving offerings to grow such social cause and organisation. After NKF, Renci, Teen..... something, life for them still goes on, probably with even greater clarity now. All are audited, whether TC or welfare org. It will be made right with vigilance and proper scrutiny.
If an organisation have $2M in coffer and its obligation is at most $50k a month, it will take about 40 months to use up $2M.
Meanwhile, through some guidelines with proper jurisdiction & prudence, the organisation can engage a investment company who are able to grow $1M at min. 5% pa which translate to $50k to either pass back to consumer or build other essential facilities in the estate.
Does this sound like a good plan?
Not nice to comment on the recent saga as it is still undergoing investigation and involves religious entity. But that also should not discourage the public from giving offerings to grow such social cause and organisation. After NKF, Renci, Teen..... something, life for them still goes on, probably with even greater clarity now. All are audited, whether TC or welfare org. It will be made right with vigilance and proper scrutiny.
there is a difference between running a for-profit commercial organization vs non-profit/not-for-profit entities. if i'm a CEO running the latter, is it in my interest to charge my clients $100 for service when knowing that $20 will cover my operating costs?
secondly, you mentioned that earnings were transferred back to the estate. you must know that there was a deafening silence on this when Teo Ho Ping was queried over and over again (and we can infer, it is a no).
the purpose of quoting the CoC and CHC saga, is to show the stark difference in treatment between the TCs and CHC and the need for transparency and accountability. it is not to pass judgement or demean CHC (that is a separate thing that i would be more than glad to share juicy facts)
there is a difference between running a for-profit commercial organization vs non-profit/not-for-profit entities. if i'm a CEO running the latter, is it in my interest to charge my clients $100 for service when knowing that $20 will cover my operating costs?
secondly, you mentioned that earnings were transferred back to the estate. you must know that there was a deafening silence on this when Teo Ho Ping was queried over and over again (and we can infer, it is a no).
the purpose of quoting the CoC and CHC saga, is to show the stark difference in treatment between the TCs and CHC and the need for transparency and accountability. it is not to pass judgement or demean CHC (that is a separate thing that i would be more than glad to share juicy facts)
If your facts showed certain truth which should be brought to light, then it should. Hope you continue to enjoy such policing and social activism.
Good luck.
there is a difference between running a for-profit commercial organization vs non-profit/not-for-profit entities. if i'm a CEO running the latter, is it in my interest to charge my clients $100 for service when knowing that $20 will cover my operating costs?
secondly, you mentioned that earnings were transferred back to the estate. you must know that there was a deafening silence on this when Teo Ho Ping was queried over and over again (and we can infer, it is a no).
the purpose of quoting the CoC and CHC saga, is to show the stark difference in treatment between the TCs and CHC and the need for transparency and accountability. it is not to pass judgement or demean CHC (that is a separate thing that i would be more than glad to share juicy facts)
By ur analogy on cost. I guess apple should 1st to be crucified . Why they make so much better margin selling their apple products!
This is call value selling. End user happy to pay for the value they see.
Really talk cock leh.
eh moronic mongrel, you haven't answered about the social contract so shut up.
please lah, look at your track record
1- "manufacturing-isn't-a-pillar-of-SG-economy" claim: kenna smack by MTI which openly stated in the papers otherwise
2- all your BS about healthcare: kenna smack by MoH which openly stated they are forking out more without increasing taxes
Lol u are going nuts huh. U what the truth! U can't handle the truth!
If your facts showed certain truth which should be brought to light, then it should. Hope you continue to enjoy such policing and social activism.
Good luck.
well, let's let justice have its due process. the juicy facts shall remain for another day in the mean time.
Lol u are going nuts huh. U what the truth! U can't handle the truth!
yawn.......as expected, no guts to admit your failed arguments.
but.....WAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA, still can't get over the moron who claims manufacturing isn't a pillar of singapore's economy
When did Town Council head start to act like they are investment manager? :doh:
They should remember their role, and provide the job service befitting of their role and not try to act like a investment manager! And despite of all that happened, they were not being held responsible?
TCs should not be allowed to accumulate so much fund, and whatever there are should only be in savings and fixed deposit account, nowhere else!
in the first place, TCs are not meant to be investment institutions and we aren't even sure that previous earnings, if any, were shared. if temasek and GIC are examples, then it is a definite no.
the issue is not about the quantum of the loss, but the lack of transparency and accountability. just look at City Harvest saga and how CoC is pursuing the issue.
When did Town Council head start to act like they are investment manager? :doh:
They should remember their role, and provide the job service befitting of their role and not try to act like a investment manager! And despite of all that happened, they were not being held responsible?
TCs should not be allowed to accumulate so much fund, and whatever there are should only be in savings and fixed deposit account, nowhere else!
high five!!!
i hate the fact that NOOOOO ONE was held accountable for the tens of millions lost.
So we will see new mass market condo next to mrt station to be launched at 580psf like caspian in 2009? :rolleyes:
possible, cos khaw is determined to bring the $ down.
actually the govt cannot understand the rationale of buyers.
we will continue to buy. if market crashes, den we will buy more :cheers1:
so whether crash or not is a win win situation for us.
u will nid to be scared of overpriced if u r oni buying 1 ppty
Finally he has found the root of the problem!
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