View Full Version : Why doesn't govt sell land with higher plot ratios?
All this enbloc redevelopment is really a waste of resources and damages the environment. Why doesn't the govt sell land with the highest possible plot ratio? :doh:
They want to collect Development Charge.
They want to collect Development Charge.
Land price is always based on per GPR, so higher plot ratio means higher price. Especially land near MRT, should always be sold with the highest possible plot ratio so more people can benefit.
I can't understand this thinking. Perhaps they think that if plot ratio is increased, people realize Singapore has more than enough land....
There is always enough land, there problem is there is too much money. Hence, the price is always higher.
Amber Woods
10-04-13, 14:32
All this enbloc redevelopment is really a waste of resources and damages the environment. Why doesn't the govt sell land with the highest possible plot ratio? :doh:
It was reported in the press sometime ago that land sold under GLS would come with increased plot ratio especially land near MRT stations. New BTO flats are also built on land with higher plot ratio and higher height limit.
The government is not likely to increase plot ratio for developments sitting on existing land to avoid another en bloc craze in the mid 90s'.
issit becos the land cannot tahan? cos I see some cluster of land is all low rise development ...
There is always enough land, there problem is there is too much money. Hence, the price is always higher.
If there's too much money then all the more the govt should make this money by increasing plot ratio and rake in as much money as possible from land sale.
If the US can sell mortgage backed securities by the trillions, why can't the govt come out with sometime that can be sold to these foreigners?
One easy way I can think of is to increase plot ratio to 10 for condo plots near MRT, so a 150,000 sq ft plot can build a project for 1500 units.
The govt can launch 10 such sites to build 15,000 units.
evolutionx
10-04-13, 14:39
issit becos the land cannot tahan? cos I see some cluster of land is all low rise development ...
could be also due to zoning issues, or close to army camp ...
It was reported in the press sometime ago that land sold under GLS would come with increased plot ratio especially land near MRT stations. New BTO flats are also built on land with higher plot ratio and higher height limit.
The government is not likely to increase plot ratio for developments sitting on existing land to avoid another en bloc craze in the mid 90s'.
Not good enough, they should increase the plot ratio to 10, like they have in HK.
evolutionx
10-04-13, 14:44
If there's too much money then all the more the govt should make this money by increasing plot ratio and rake in as much money as possible from land sale.
If the US can sell mortgage backed securities by the trillions, why can't the govt come out with sometime that can be sold to these foreigners?
One easy way I can think of is to increase plot ratio to 10 for condo plots near MRT, so a 150,000 sq ft plot can build a project for 1500 units.
The govt can launch 10 such sites to build 15,000 units.
so .... what your're proposing is to stuff 6000 people in 1 building (lets assume 1500 families x 4 person each) might not be very practical as you would have to increase a lot of capacities to deal with a building of that size + transportation might not even be enough ...?
even worse if its 10 sites and about 60,000 people man ...
Wild Falcon
10-04-13, 14:50
Depends also on FH or 99LH lah. Usually same area FH has much lower plot ratio. for 99LH, govt pocket the money if plot ratio increase. For FH, the owners pocket the money. at the end of the day, PAP only want to line their own pockets and not the people's pockets.
so .... what your're proposing is to stuff 6000 people in 1 building (lets assume 1500 families x 4 person each) might not be very practical as you would have to increase a lot of capacities to deal with a building of that size + transportation might not even be enough ...?
even worse if its 10 sites and about 60,000 people man ...
Since the sites will be near MRT, they could sell the apartment and carpark separately like they do in Hong Kong.
For example, a 150,000 sq ft development with 1500 apartments may have only 750 parking spaces.
Anyway, with 6.9 million population target, you can't possibly increase the car population at the same rate as the population increases.
so .... what your're proposing is to stuff 6000 people in 1 building (lets assume 1500 families x 4 person each) might not be very practical as you would have to increase a lot of capacities to deal with a building of that size + transportation might not even be enough ...?
even worse if its 10 sites and about 60,000 people man ...
Imagine if 6000 people use the toilet all at the same time. Catastrophic
plot ratio is ok, i think the limiting factor is the storey heights.
low storeys per block, no choice have to build many blocks, in the end, blocks are near to each other and it looks very cramped.
now plot ratio is same, but URA impose a new minimum storey height ruling, and increase the maximum height.
suddenly there is fewer and taller blocks. distance between blocks increase. the project dont look cramp at all.
This is all part of urban and infrastructure development plan, as well as to create a sustainable construction industry.
tearing down and rebuilding helps create job and it drives the economy.
Once there is enough housing for 6.9Mil, very likely the policies will be in place to deter redevelopment, such as through super high construction cost.
Redevelopment is the main contributor to the demand for construction workers.
Once the critical mass of housing is achieved, likely.. will be like mature cities like HK, or tokyo or London.. lesser construction projects.
tearing down and rebuilding helps create job and it drives the economy.
You win liao. :D
Not good enough, they should increase the plot ratio to 10, like they have in HK.
I don't think land planning is so easy. How to ensure there is sufficient amenity for people on those plot? How to control traffic congestions leading into those developments? All the land use confugurations surrounding those plots need to be planned out properly. My sense is it is possible to raise plot ratio but not without careful deliberation of knock-on impact on related planning issues
I don't think land planning is so easy. How to ensure there is sufficient amenity for people on those plot? How to control traffic congestions leading into those developments? All the land use confugurations surrounding those plots need to be planned out properly. My sense is it is possible to raise plot ratio but not without careful deliberation of knock-on impact on related planning issues
There are not many places where there is human congestion - usually due to large foreign worker congregations like Tampines, Boonlay, Woodlands. Foreign workers like to loiter in shopping centres to enjoy free aircon, especially on hot days.
In most places, the main congestions are on the roads. To overcome this problem, developers can sell apartments without parking lots. This should be limited to projects within 3-4 min walking distance, approximately 300m, of MRT stations.
As for human congestion within the residential development, it is unlikely to be an issue. A large office building can have easily 20,000 to 30,000 workers, many times more than any condo project of the same size.
There are not many places where there is human congestion - usually due to large foreign worker congregations like Tampines, Boonlay, Woodlands. Foreign workers like to loiter in shopping centres to enjoy free aircon, especially on hot days.
In most places, the main congestions are on the roads. To overcome this problem, developers can sell apartments without parking lots. This should be limited to projects within 3-4 min walking distance, approximately 300m, of MRT stations.
As for human congestion within the residential development, it is unlikely to be an issue. A large office building can have easily 20,000 to 30,000 workers, many times more than any condo project of the same size.
i hope most of us heard KenoBiWan on yesterday's news. He said he is open to the idea of housing FWs on offshore islands.
Kusu Island Residences, anyone?
i hope most of us heard KenoBiWan on yesterday's news. He said he is open to the idea of housing FWs on offshore islands.
Kusu Island Residences, anyone?
if he can offer FH condo @888psf, I dun mind staying in Kusu Residences :tongue3:
i hope most of us heard KenoBiWan on yesterday's news. He said he is open to the idea of housing FWs on offshore islands.
Kusu Island Residences, anyone?
You know Waterfront housing is very expensive? :D
All this enbloc redevelopment is really a waste of resources and damages the environment. Why doesn't the govt sell land with the highest possible plot ratio? :doh:
The roads/sewerage/water/electicity for any neighbhourhood is already in place, based on past assumptions of population density of say.. Plot Ratio of 2.8 to 3.5.
If suddenly allow a PR of 10, then alot of existing infrastructure needs to be upgraded as well. The whole neighbourhood will feel congested.
evolutionx
10-04-13, 17:52
There are not many places where there is human congestion - usually due to large foreign worker congregations like Tampines, Boonlay, Woodlands. Foreign workers like to loiter in shopping centres to enjoy free aircon, especially on hot days.
In most places, the main congestions are on the roads. To overcome this problem, developers can sell apartments without parking lots. This should be limited to projects within 3-4 min walking distance, approximately 300m, of MRT stations.
As for human congestion within the residential development, it is unlikely to be an issue. A large office building can have easily 20,000 to 30,000 workers, many times more than any condo project of the same size.
no parking lots eh ... so if the mrt breaks down ... you expect everyone to take bus/cab home? how will people visit you? how will sp services come to do meter reading? how will repairmen come to service / do repairs? all take mrt ...? can you imagine the swarm of people heading to mrt in the morning to go to work?
also, for example, a large project like pinnacle@ duxton, which sits on 270,000sqft of land (PR 9.28 according to the architect's site) can only house approximately 7000 residents (over 1800+ units) and this is a 50 storey building ....
think only the large skyscrapers (ie uob centre) can manage 20k employees... and thats with a lot of supporting infrastructure all around :)
no parking lots eh ... so if the mrt breaks down ... you expect everyone to take bus/cab home? how will people visit you? how will sp services come to do meter reading? how will repairmen come to service / do repairs? all take mrt ...? can you imagine the swarm of people heading to mrt in the morning to go to work?
also, for example, a large project like pinnacle@ duxton, which sits on 270,000sqft of land (PR 9.28 according to the architect's site) can only house approximately 7000 residents (over 1800+ units) and this is a 50 storey building ....
think only the large skyscrapers (ie uob centre) can manage 20k employees... and thats with a lot of supporting infrastructure all around :)
By the time reach 6.9 million, COE price $250,000 a piece (in today's price), not many can afford also.
You want 6.9 million, you can't expect everyone to be able to afford $250k COE.
Let's be realistic, we can squeeze people like sardines, make houses smaller and smaller, but cars cannot be squeezed and need the space or they will hit each other, causing accidents and even more jam.
Anyway, I'm talking about projects near MRT only. :D
The roads/sewerage/water/electicity for any neighbhourhood is already in place, based on past assumptions of population density of say.. Plot Ratio of 2.8 to 3.5.
If suddenly allow a PR of 10, then alot of existing infrastructure needs to be upgraded as well. The whole neighbourhood will feel congested.
Yep, that will translate to good urban planning esp. City with high population density. Isn't the curb on limited number of MMs to be built eg. Telok Kurau, Kovan something of that effect. The infra cannot cope.
If GPR becomes 10.0, it will send so many more owners to the mega million club after enbloc. We should not mind if this will help to ease cost of owning new property for Singaporeans. Existing owner gets to collect more because of higher GPR, govt collect some of redevelopment cost, developer should be able to built more per plot so increase number of units and lessen unit price. Everybody wins, but is it that simple....
Any guru here, free to critic this simplistic view?
The roads/sewerage/water/electicity for any neighbhourhood is already in place, based on past assumptions of population density of say.. Plot Ratio of 2.8 to 3.5.
If suddenly allow a PR of 10, then alot of existing infrastructure needs to be upgraded as well. The whole neighbourhood will feel congested.
That's why I said the government wants to collect Development Charge. Height restriction aside, developers can pay DC to up allowable PR. The government will take the DC paid to improve the surrounding infrastructure.
Allthepies
10-04-13, 18:53
Depends also on FH or 99LH lah. Usually same area FH has much lower plot ratio. for 99LH, govt pocket the money if plot ratio increase. For FH, the owners pocket the money. at the end of the day, PAP only want to line their own pockets and not the people's pockets.
All government land sales goes into reserve for our future generations.
Because of our prudent government, we haven't use our reserve except once if I remember correctly.
Of course we can change government and distribute all our reserve for enjoyment. Think each citizen can get 100K.
The way you are saying is like they have no proper planning and principle? They only increase their own land's plot ratio and not the rest around their land? So after that we have so many isolated land and buildings with super high plot ratio? Wow! That means lesson learnt is never never buy such properties sitting on such super isolated high plot ratio because got no prospect and cannot increase in value! :banghead:
It was reported in the press sometime ago that land sold under GLS would come with increased plot ratio especially land near MRT stations. New BTO flats are also built on land with higher plot ratio and higher height limit.
The government is not likely to increase plot ratio for developments sitting on existing land to avoid another en bloc craze in the mid 90s'.
All government land sales goes into reserve for our future generations.
Because of our prudent government, we haven't use our reserve except once if I remember correctly.
Of course we can change government and distribute all our reserve for enjoyment. Think each citizen can get 100K.
please, it's more than 100k. last year's surplus alone was more than $300bn and that works out to $60k per headcount (foreigner + citizen)
last year's surplus alone was more than $300bn
I think that number got extra 0s or it's in other currency.......
I think that number got extra 0 or it's in other currency.......
nope. it is $300bn, you can check up on IMF's website. our govt reports an entirely different figure that doesn't include lots of revenue receipts.
as to why it is so, we can talk more if we want to delve into the politics of which
nope. it is $300bn, you can check up on IMF's website. our govt reports an entirely different figure that doesn't include lots of revenue receipts.
as to why it is so, we can talk more if we want to delve into the politics of which
You mean like this?
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/avo7007/budget_zps4f6d54a3.jpg
Also not $300B leh?
toiletsiao
11-04-13, 09:44
You mean like this?
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/avo7007/budget_zps4f6d54a3.jpg
Also not $300B leh?
300billion is too wayward a figure already lah...
300billion is almost the size of the entire Singapore GDP (about 320billion)...
You mean like this?
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/avo7007/budget_zps4f6d54a3.jpg
Also not $300B leh?
oh ya, my bad. i just remember that our govt reported just a tenth of that given to IMF. didn't realise the number given by our MSM is merely $3bn.
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