View Full Version : Law passed to ensure 'what you see is what you get' at showflats
bargain hunter
08-04-13, 20:23
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/law-passed-ensure-what-you-see-what-you-get-showflats-20130408
By Elgin Toh
Developers of private housing projects face more stringent laws on marketing and information disclosure, after Parliament passed amendments to the Housing Developers Act today.
Showflats, for instance, can no longer be made to look bigger than the final product through the use of glass panels instead of brick walls, or higher ceilings.
Transaction prices reported will also have to reflect all forms of discounts and rebates, including furniture vouchers and stamp duty refunds - to counter any artificial inflation of prices by developers.
The amendments give the Government greater power to punish errant developers - with fines up to $100,000 and the power to inspect and, if necessary, close showflats, among other measures.
In laying out the Government's case, Senior Minister of State (National Development) Lee Yi Shyan said the bill would further safeguard the interests of home-buyers and enhance professionalism in the residential property industry.
He noted: "A home is, in most cases, the single largest investment in one's lifetime. It is only right that home-buyers are provided with the appropriate tools and legal safeguards to make informed decisions."
So long then pass the bill?? I thought it was suppose to have started long ago.
Condomania
08-04-13, 22:24
Let the crashes begin!
Is that all you could offer as comments? Nothing but "crashes" ... :doh:
I'm beginning to think that u indeed "clash" with many people by those remarks of yours.... hmmmm :doh:
mirror and glass are the lethal weapon for showflat ID ...
so now cannot use mirror and glass liao?
i also see many new showflat do not have wall or partition but a simple line to separate section to make it looks huge instead of 4 walls ... cramped
now all must have walls ? :D
Is that all you could offer as comments? Nothing but "crashes" ... :doh:
I'm beginning to think that u indeed "clash" with many people by those remarks of yours.... hmmmm :doh:
Ya
no idea what has happen to him
something up there must have snapped a few weeks back
With this new measure
Next best thing to do is to note down all the details of the unit the agent tells you in the brochure or catalogue and get him to sign it off at the end of the tour :D
Is that all you could offer as comments? Nothing but "crashes" ... :doh:
I'm beginning to think that u indeed "clash" with many people by those remarks of yours.... hmmmm :doh:
I will never forget the Soh's and the Ye's for smattering my dream.
Ya
no idea what has happen to him
something up there must have snapped a few weeks back
With this new measure
Next best thing to do is to note down all the details of the unit the agent tells you in the brochure or catalogue and get him to sign it off at the end of the tour :D
Take pictures all round. Print out and countersign against it? Heh.
Condomania
08-04-13, 22:54
I will never forget the Soh's and the Ye's for smattering my dream.
u poor thing..muz hv suffered a lot... pls go n see counsellor if need to...
meanwhile hv another dream....:sleep:
creative_vitamin
08-04-13, 22:57
This is good!
Govt should also banned sales of precious land to crazy developers who build silly size units
I will never forget the Soh's and the Ye's for smattering my dream.
Who's the ah Soh n ah ye' ? And what have they done ?
Instead of cursing and cry fouls , works toward your goal, or set your expectation within your reach..:)
In fact, u already have a roof called home with all family members under one, you should be contented ...
Maybe next time showflat shall be the exact replica of the empty unit you will see when you get your keys, together with the wires dangling from the ceiling.
:rolleyes:
I will never forget the Soh's and the Ye's for smattering my dream.
Thought u have a flat at Tiong Bahru plus your parents and in-laws flats? Your net worth is not too bad with all these assets. Should be contented alr what:doh:
Show flats are lies......always so beautiful....ceiling high...but the final product is so so and much smaller
So long then pass the bill?? I thought it was suppose to have started long ago.
When it comes to protecting the man in the street, they usually take a long time, lol.
rymccondo77
09-04-13, 00:17
I will never forget the Soh's and the Ye's for smattering my dream.
You have a supportive wife (from what I have gathered from your past postings) and 2 children - many people don't even have that.
So please count your blessings, not your "missings"!
(Sigh - somehow, I think you will keep harping about your shattered dreams, instead of having a thankful and grateful heart for the loved ones that you have in your life :doh: )
Would like to see brochure floor plan with all dimensions of the units.
Erect all blocks on the models n not just leave empty space, indicate block to block distance.
Full pricing list for all units less whatever crap discount.
A empty show flat less all the ID, a copy exact unit upon TOP showing the A/C, RC ledge, roof terrace and personal enclose space, window, glass panel, railing etc.
rymccondo77
09-04-13, 00:47
Would like to see brochure floor plan with all dimensions of the units.
Erect all blocks on the models n not just leave empty space, indicate block to block distance.
Full pricing list for all units less whatever crap discount.
A empty show flat less all the ID, a copy exact unit upon TOP showing the A/C, RC ledge, roof terrace and personal enclose space, window, glass panel, railing etc.
(1) Yes, would very much like to see the floor plans with the dimenisons provided, or at least provide the indicative dimensions.
(2) Could show a smaller site plan model with all the blocks erected. The bigger site plan can then have the empty spaces - so that potential buyers can see the facilities (e.g. swimming pools, clubhouse, etc. which are typically located between blocks) easily.
i would like a floor plan that specifies what is the live in space EXCLUDING the air con ledge.
i would like a floor plan that specifies what is the live in space EXCLUDING the air con ledge.
The worst floor plans are those that didn't show furnitures so that one cannot even gauge the dimensions of the space. Have to rely on width of door.
i would like a floor plan that specifies what is the live in space EXCLUDING the air con ledge.
Sorry my Duplicate post
NorthernStar
09-04-13, 07:18
Maybe next time showflat shall be the exact replica of the empty unit you will see when you get your keys, together with the wires dangling from the ceiling.
:rolleyes:
Most of the Malaysia's developments show both units.. 1 with IDs and 1 is bare..
mirror and glass are the lethal weapon for showflat ID ...
so now cannot use mirror and glass liao?
i also see many new showflat do not have wall or partition but a simple line to separate section to make it looks huge instead of 4 walls ... cramped
now all must have walls ? :D
yes, but there is no stopping developers from halving the wall thickness that can create illusions of space too
So buyers bring their own measuring tapes next time?
bargain hunter
09-04-13, 09:26
PUBLISHED APRIL 09, 2013
Blank cheque practice ahead of property launches set to be regulated
New rules give minister power to put in safeguards
The practice of property agents collecting blank cheques from prospective private home buyers as a form of advance booking ahead of a project's launch will come under greater scrutiny.
New rules under the Housing Developers (Control and Licensing) (Amendment) Bill 2013 empower the Minister for National Development to regulate such activities, if there is a need to do so in the future, though developers will retain flexibility in their marketing and promotional activities, said Senior Minister of State for National Development Lee Yi Shyan.
He revealed this during the second reading of the Bill, which was passed yesterday.
"... the Council for Estate Agencies is already working with the relevant government agencies and the real estate industry to set guidelines on the collection and proper use of cheques. We have also made provisions in this Bill and will monitor the situation before assessing if further regulatory safeguards are needed," he added.
Market watchers say that the practice of collecting cheques varies widely, and a set of guidelines would help to standardise procedures and improve controls. For one, there needs to be greater accountability in the issuance and collection of cheques; for example, the buyer's particulars including identity card number should be properly recorded and kept in a register which can be audited to ascertain the cheques' authenticity so that there is no misrepresentation of demand.
International Property Advisor CEO Ku Swee Yong said: "The more responsible developers do issue booking forms for agents to fill when they collect cheques.
"But in some cases, the developers may leave their agents to do their own paperwork and what sometimes happens is cheques are taken by the agents without issuing the proper paperwork. There's room to tighten rules so the practice is consistent. This paperwork should be issued by the developer rather than the property agency."
Knight Frank chairman Tan Tiong Cheng notes that cheque collections, which are typically based on an indicative price range, are often used by developers to gauge the level of interest in a project before finalising its price, "similar to an IPO process". "So if the number of cheques collected is high relative to units in the project, the developer will price the project at the higher end of the range, and vice versa. Furthermore, the developer will be able to assess the level of interest for different unit types and be able to push out units that will create a sustained sales momentum."
The convenience to the buyer in giving a cheque ahead of launch is that he does not need to queue at the showflat when bookings start. "However, the danger of this practice is that it can lead to hype and create pressure on some buyers," Mr Tan acknowledged. In his speech in Parliament, Mr Lee also said that the amendments to The Housing Developers Act will require developers to provide accurate information on residential transactions to the Controller of Housing "in the same way they would to the Monetary Authority of Singapore for the purpose of loan applications".
"In other words, they will need to disclose any price discount, rebate, or any other benefit, including the reimbursement of any stamp duty or tax granted to home-buyers."
In addition, the amendments arm the Controller with legal power to collect and publish information on building projects, units sold and made available for sale by developers, and sales transactions. "Data collected will be published in an aggregated manner, as frequently as weekly, to aid home-buyers in timely decision-making," said Mr Lee.
The grounds on which the Controller can revoke or suspend a housing developer's licence are being expanded to include the developer's failure to furnish information on the project, its sale and sales transactions.
Developers are also required to accurately depict homes through showflats. All structural walls of a showflat should be built in the same thickness as the final product. Using a glass panel in lieu of a solid brick wall would be misleading. All "add-ons", such as furnishings and interior fittings, must be duly labelled and made known to buyers.
Besides suspension and revocation of licences and fines, deterrent measures in the amended Act include imprisonment.
yes, but there is no stopping developers from halving the wall thickness that can create illusions of space too
sorry no halve wall thickness.
er.. what is a structural wall and a non-structural wall?
http://app.mnd.gov.sg/Newsroom/NewsPage.aspx?ID=4411&category=Parliamentary%20Speech
Improving Quality of Information
(A) Showflats
11 First, we will amend Section 22 of the Act to empower the Minister to make rules requiring developers to accurately depict homes through showflats. Many home-buyers base their purchases on what they see in the showflats. It is therefore crucial for showflats to be built to scale, and be “WYSIWYG”, or what you see is what you get.
12 For instance, all structural walls of a show flat should be erected with dimensions as per approved in the approved building plan. Using a glass panel in lieu of a solid brick wall would be misleading. Likewise, the ceiling height of a showflat shall be the same as that approved in the building plan.
13 This Bill also introduces Section 17A to empower the Controller of Housing to investigate and penalise instances of non-compliance with the requirements relating to showflats.
(B) Sales transactions
14 Second, we have made provisions in this Bill to give the Minister new rule-making powers requiring developers to disclose and publish all rebates, discounts and other benefits offered or extended to home-buyers.
15 Over the years, we have noticed more and more developers offering discounts to home-buyers. More recently, some developers have started to mark their units at a higher price, while offering significant discounts through rebates and other benefits such as furniture vouchers. Such inflated sale prices mask the real transacted prices and undermine transparency in the property market.
16 The proposed amendments will require developers to provide accurate information on residential transactions to the Controller of Housing in the same way they would to the Monetary Authority of Singapore for the purpose of loan applications. In other words, they will need to disclose any price discount, rebate, or any other benefit, including the reimbursement of any stamp duty or tax granted to home-buyers.
17 In addition, Section 11 of the current Act will be amended to give the Controller of Housing legal power to collect and publish information on building projects, units sold and made available for sale by developers, and also sales transactions. Data collected will be published in an aggregated manner, as frequently as weekly, to aid home-buyers in timely decision-making.
whatever happened to the need to show pricelist 2 days before launching?
bargain hunter
09-04-13, 09:52
yah. they seem to have ignored that.
also,
there's no stopping developers from building decent 3 bedders and 3 bedder showflats while omitting 1 and 2 bedder showflats?
I will never forget the Soh's and the Ye's for smattering my dream.
bcos there are so many "can't see people good" people everywhere.
yah. they seem to have ignored that.
also,
there's no stopping developers from building decent 3 bedders and 3 bedder showflats while omitting 1 and 2 bedder showflats?
i was about to say that
sorry no halve wall thickness.
er.. what is a structural wall and a non-structural wall?
http://app.mnd.gov.sg/Newsroom/NewsPage.aspx?ID=4411&category=Parliamentary%20Speech
Improving Quality of Information
(A) Showflats
11 First, we will amend Section 22 of the Act to empower the Minister to make rules requiring developers to accurately depict homes through showflats. Many home-buyers base their purchases on what they see in the showflats. It is therefore crucial for showflats to be built to scale, and be “WYSIWYG”, or what you see is what you get.
12 For instance, all structural walls of a show flat should be erected with dimensions as per approved in the approved building plan. Using a glass panel in lieu of a solid brick wall would be misleading. Likewise, the ceiling height of a showflat shall be the same as that approved in the building plan.
13 This Bill also introduces Section 17A to empower the Controller of Housing to investigate and penalise instances of non-compliance with the requirements relating to showflats.
(B) Sales transactions
14 Second, we have made provisions in this Bill to give the Minister new rule-making powers requiring developers to disclose and publish all rebates, discounts and other benefits offered or extended to home-buyers.
15 Over the years, we have noticed more and more developers offering discounts to home-buyers. More recently, some developers have started to mark their units at a higher price, while offering significant discounts through rebates and other benefits such as furniture vouchers. Such inflated sale prices mask the real transacted prices and undermine transparency in the property market.
16 The proposed amendments will require developers to provide accurate information on residential transactions to the Controller of Housing in the same way they would to the Monetary Authority of Singapore for the purpose of loan applications. In other words, they will need to disclose any price discount, rebate, or any other benefit, including the reimbursement of any stamp duty or tax granted to home-buyers.
17 In addition, Section 11 of the current Act will be amended to give the Controller of Housing legal power to collect and publish information on building projects, units sold and made available for sale by developers, and also sales transactions. Data collected will be published in an aggregated manner, as frequently as weekly, to aid home-buyers in timely decision-making.
ta-da, who will know the difference between a structural or non-structural wall from the developer's brochure? unless it is compulsory to look at detailed engineering plans, you can never tell
I remember in the past when you visit a showflat, you get a nice brochure from the developer which contains a price list stating the selling price of all the units launched, the discount given, and the final selling price. This creates transparency as all prospective buyers know the price range of the project beforehand and agents cannot mislead them.
Unfortunately, this is no longer practised. Instead buyers have to frantically copy the prices of the units from the agent who holds on to the master price list..... :banghead:
whatever happened to the need to show pricelist 2 days before launching?
even the current "show flat must show actual unit" thing, I thought it was already in place.
now looks like, *everything* that has been said before, are simply "guidelines" only, with no enforcement. developer can choose to ignore them.
KBW should not have missed this.
even the current "show flat must show actual unit" thing, I thought it was already in place.
now looks like, *everything* that has been said before, are simply "guidelines" only, with no enforcement. developer can choose to ignore them.
KBW should not have missed this.
this is the formal act of legislation. it must be debated and passed in parliament and ministries can't suka suka come up with policies/rules
bargain hunter
09-04-13, 11:24
its also gonna take awhile before it gets implemented. starting from projects which have yet to get approval and those will only be launched a long time later.
I'm not legal expert, but why must this be a "law" ? MAS says you cannot loan x%, and that is immediate, it does not need a law. In the past when CPF money was not allowed to use for 2nd pty unless you get minimum sum etc, the rule was also immediate, I dun remember passing any "amendment" on CPF Act.
(that's why I said earlier, Tharman should have gotten this KBW job, and let him play with the big shot developers as *financial matters*)
I remember in the past when you visit a showflat, you get a nice brochure from the developer which contains a price list stating the selling price of all the units launched, the discount given, and the final selling price. This creates transparency as all prospective buyers know the price range of the project beforehand and agents cannot mislead them.
Unfortunately, this is no longer practised. Instead buyers have to frantically copy the prices of the units from the agent who holds on to the master price list..... :banghead:
haha, terrible. the agent told me it is the developer who decides to do it this way. Says a lot about the developer, in that particular instance it is CDL.
just to add on...
should also show location of lift shafts as well as rubbish chutes on individual floor level, in relation to the units. so that you know where the noise is coming from and whether you are sleeping next to the rubbish chute. :D
this info is found only in a few of the brochures.
also the location of the rubbish dump and electrical substation.
doubt these will be included and just got to ask for them.
Very soon we will see showroom cladded with mirrors all round to create the next level of illusion and ultra white glossy floor tiles. Bright LEDS etc etc :doh:
I'm not legal expert, but why must this be a "law" ? MAS says you cannot loan x%, and that is immediate, it does not need a law. In the past when CPF money was not allowed to use for 2nd pty unless you get minimum sum etc, the rule was also immediate, I dun remember passing any "amendment" on CPF Act.
(that's why I said earlier, Tharman should have gotten this KBW job, and let him play with the big shot developers as *financial matters*)
MAS and CPF board had vested powers under the relevant legislation to make their announcements and recommendations have immediate effect and the force of law - statutory powers granted to stat boards for limited scope which is subject to regular reviews by ministry of law etc - so their powers are legislatively provided
Bill passing and debate at parliamentary level are for those outside of the norm measures and act amendments such as this one which takes a bit more time and also because of the public sensitivity arising out of this (also to cover backside like that time when they debate about legalizing gambling industry in Singapore) to have deliberate prolonged discussions and properly documented records of them having done so heh
just to add on...
should also show location of lift shafts as well as rubbish chutes on individual floor level, in relation to the units. so that you know where the noise is coming from and whether you are sleeping next to the rubbish chute. :D
this info is found only in a few of the brochures.
also the location of the rubbish dump and electrical substation.
doubt these will be included and just got to ask for them.
the location of substations and dumps are typically found in the site plan. but no one puts up location of rubbish chute in brochures since it's of no interest. just have to ask if the chute is inside or outside of the unit
even if the site plan shows the locations of substation, rubbish points, etc, develop can change w/o notice.
in my condo, there suppost to hv a linkway to the carpark near a block. but developer didnt build citing overlooked GFA. so those living in the block hv one less access to carpark.
linkway was there in the intial site plan.
even if the site plan shows the locations of substation, rubbish points, etc, develop can change w/o notice.
in my condo, there suppost to hv a linkway to the carpark near a block. but developer didnt build citing overlooked GFA. so those living in the block hv one less access to carpark.
linkway was there in the intial site plan.
substation is a big thing. unless the site is freaking huge and has multiple options for road access, it is unlikely to shift.
a linkway can't be mentioned in the same breath as a substation.
even if the site plan shows the locations of substation, rubbish points, etc, develop can change w/o notice.
in my condo, there suppost to hv a linkway to the carpark near a block. but developer didnt build citing overlooked GFA. so those living in the block hv one less access to carpark.
linkway was there in the intial site plan.
you can ask for paper CAD plans at the showflat. more accurate than showflat or brochure since these have already been approved by the authorities.
i dont think it is likely they sell first then submit engineering plans.
more likely they get approval for engineering plans, then sell the project. in the meantime, they "tinker" a bit with brochure, showflat, and the project model. dont trust the siteplan etc. again refer to engineering plans.
To solve all the problem, just by resale property lah. What you see is what you get.
you can ask for paper CAD plans at the showflat. more accurate than showflat or brochure since these have already been approved by the authorities.
i dont think it is likely they sell first then submit engineering plans.
more likely they get approval for engineering plans, then sell the project. in the meantime, they "tinker" a bit with brochure, showflat, and the project model. dont trust the siteplan etc. again refer to engineering plans.
Or pay $20 go BCA inspect the building plans. Very informative stuff.
To solve all the problem, just by resale property lah. What you see is what you get.
some like the smell of new house mah.
Or pay $20 go BCA inspect the building plans. Very informative stuff.
Even so, I understand developer may amend the plans at any time. But they are probably minor changes.
I tried once and it does only show detailed building plans for each level. But it does not provide dimensions for each indivial unit type .
Even so, I understand developer may amend the plans at any time. But they are probably minor changes.
I tried once and it does only show detailed building plans for each level. But it does not provide dimensions for each indivial unit type .
Yes building plan can change again but usually to conform to safety regulations, eg creating a fire engine access road into the less accessible part of the estate, changes to wall/door, cabinet length etc to cater to wheelchair accessibility etc.
I managed to find dimensions on only the oldest building plan. If dont have then use 60cm for the depth of wardrobe cabinet and extrapolate from there.
There is an architectural symbol in the plan I don't understand. It's a T in a circle but slanted slightly at a small angle. Usually found in the toilet. What does it mean?
....
There is an architectural symbol in the plan I don't understand. It's a T in a circle but slanted slightly at a small angle. Usually found in the toilet. What does it mean?
thermostat?
thermostat?
But why need a thermostat in the toilet ? 點解？
But why need a thermostat in the toilet ? 點解？
so that u can 'bomb' in comfort??
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