View Full Version : & we wonder why we aren't spending enough on healthcare as a nation
The share of global conventional arms purchases and imports from year 2008 to 2012 are as follows (courtesy of The Stockholm Peace Research Institute):
Country, % Share of global arms purchase, Population (% of World Population)
India : 12%, 1,200m (17.1%)
China: 6%, 1,350m (19.14%)
Pakistan: 5%, 182m (2.58%)
South Korea: 5%, 50m (0.71%)
Singapore: 4%, 5m (0.07%http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/04/01/sg-small-country-but-top-global-arms-buyer/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacDonald_House_bombing
Operationally Ready National Servicemen who served in 1991 would recall the joint Malaysian-Indonesian military exercise, codenamed Malindo Darsasa 3AB, that occurred that year. It involved an airborne assault by paratroopers in southern Johor.
http://www.asiaone.com/News/the%2BStraits%2BTimes/Story/A1Story20080701-73867.html
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-I_r41Zo1X_A/TzkQ0JJlVGI/AAAAAAAAGpw/b8rBAb3hFkw/s1600/Capture.JPG
these are antiquated events :doh: :confused:
fyi, there is no longer a communist threat in this region, as experienced in the 1960s/70s
if our conscription period is longer than S.Korea and Taiwan and we are spending more money than on defence relatively and we aren't facing threats of reunification or being bombarded by nuclear weapons or being rained by rocket artillery, you can be sure that we are spending too much on defence
Flor Contemplacion, a Filipino domestic helper, was arrested for the murders of domestic worker and friend, Delia Maga, and Maga’s employer’s child, Nicolas, in 1991. She was subsequently executed in 1995. This affected diplomatic relations between Singapore and the Philippines very badly.
http://www.fes.de/aktuell/focus_interkulturelles/focus_1/documents/8_000.pdf
http://www.humansecuritygateway.com/documents/SJIR_MaritimeCrimeStraitOfMalacca.pdf
Flor Contemplacion, a Filipino domestic helper, was arrested for the murders of domestic worker and friend, Delia Maga, and Maga’s employer’s child, Nicolas, in 1991. She was subsequently executed in 1995. This affected diplomatic relations between Singapore and the Philippines very badly.
http://www.fes.de/aktuell/focus_interkulturelles/focus_1/documents/8_000.pdf
this is a foreign affairs, diplomatic issue. if old Lee and mahatir weren't at each other's throats, we could have been spared, possibly, lots of unneccessary flare ups.
the point of contention is whether the amount spent on defence is sensible, or whether some resources could be diverted to more important causes.
taiwan is on its toes but conscription is shorter and defence spending is relatively lesser. go figure it out
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1777430.stm
From Tragedy Springs Peace: The Aceh Story
http://www.fetzer.org/our-work/projects/tragedy-springs-peace-aceh-story
http://www.humansecuritygateway.com/documents/SJIR_MaritimeCrimeStraitOfMalacca.pdf
piracy went up in spite of our huge spending. it is when there are talks between three countries in this region to join hands to patrol and combat maritime crime, piracy became subdued.
when economies become inter-dependent, foreign relations and diplomacy should play a much more important role than having a big military for intimidating neighbours
Claiming its assistance had been requested by East Timorese leaders, Indonesian military forces invaded on 7 December and by 1979 had all but destroyed armed resistance to the occupation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_occupation_of_East_Timor
http://www.oocities.org/~budis1/august98/singapore_strains_relations_with.htm
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/16/us-usa-navy-asia-idUSTRE7BF04Y20111216
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/USS_Independence_LCS-2_at_pierce_%28cropped%29.jpg/800px-USS_Independence_LCS-2_at_pierce_%28cropped%29.jpg
dude, seriously...........
there isn't a rebel on kusu island waiting to declare independence and your second example precisely supports my point - diplomacy and foreign relations.
don't need to keep antagonizing our neighbours and strain foreign relationships, only to claim there is a need to maintain a ridiculous amount of military spending.
anyway, you have not stated your case of why we should not divert some resources from military to other social causes
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/06/navy-singapore-host-4-littoral-combat-ships-060212d/
Singapore will now host 4 littoral combat ships
By Marcus Weisgerber - Staff writer
Posted : Saturday Jun 2, 2012 17:49:08 EDT
SINGAPORE — The Singapore military has agreed in-principle to allow the U.S. Navy to deploy up to four littoral combat ships to the city-state on a rotational basis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1hS3dOVkB0
please stop spamming irrelevant stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAtIidWcZyc
外国人怎样看新加坡11 (中国深圳版)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXOHEkhBUbE
外国人怎样看新加坡12 (恕气冲天版)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vYhGrQ6hjs
外国人怎样看新加坡13 (居者有其屋)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QJCnKrcjVg
外国人怎样看新加坡14 (大马沙巴版)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLcQgLWlluA
军情解码 2012-10-18 新加坡13万英军不战而降之谜
肃清大屠杀
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sook_Ching_massacre
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DRcEZ9ZOvuM/ThBcP9r09gI/AAAAAAAAABw/FFPKVjXQkbY/s1600/sook+ching+operation+ford+motor+factory.jpg
http://wdlhysec2b05.blogspot.fr/2013/02/the-sook-ching-massacre.html
wah piang eh, please don't turn into another minority.........all these irrelevant stuff to the discussion is pointless
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1805000/images/_1806389_pow300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1806389.stm
http://www.tresorslegendaires.com/image_1060.jpg
http://www.tresorslegendaires.com/le_tresor_de_guerre_des_japonais._1017.htm
Jean-Michel Thibaux : à Singapour, lors de l'opération Sook-Ching, 70 000 Chinois furent exécutés par les Japonais commandés par le colonel Tsuji.
Allthepies
01-04-13, 16:54
The share of global conventional arms purchases and imports from year 2008 to 2012 are as follows (courtesy of The Stockholm Peace Research Institute):
Country, % Share of global arms purchase, Population (% of World Population)
India : 12%, 1,200m (17.1%)
China: 6%, 1,350m (19.14%)
Pakistan: 5%, 182m (2.58%)
South Korea: 5%, 50m (0.71%)
Singapore: 4%, 5m (0.07%http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/04/01/sg-small-country-but-top-global-arms-buyer/
One misstep and there will no longer be a republic of Singapore. You don't take gamble with this kind of things, do you? What is your motive for posting this article?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QoBdfo8cZ68/Sj9iRstuXCI/AAAAAAAAASk/YaaYkYAYuM4/s1600/japanese-chinese-behead.jpeg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QoBdfo8cZ68/Sj9iRTipfzI/AAAAAAAAASc/ovh8XxH6PzU/s400/chinese-beheadings-by-japan.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QoBdfo8cZ68/Sj9iRCq984I/AAAAAAAAASU/ZvEuv4U9BX0/s1600/boyoneting3.jpg
http://1942malaya.blogspot.fr/2009/06/sook-ching-massacres.html
The Sook Ching massacre (Chinese: 肅清大屠殺) was a systematic extermination of perceived hostile elements among the Chinese in Singapore by the Japanese military during the Japanese Occupation of Singapore, after the British colony surrendered in the Battle of Singapore on 15 February 1942 during World War II. Sook Ching was later extended to include Chinese Malayans. The massacre took place from February 18 to March 4 1942 at various places.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Sook_Ching_Centre_site.JPG/800px-Sook_Ching_Centre_site.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SvqZXQuLXRs/SkcbwpoUT3I/AAAAAAAAAB4/Wl6NLdDSzj4/s1600/pow%2B2.jpg
http://historymadeeasyatchangi.blogspot.fr/2009/06/treatment-of-people-during-war.html
The Sook Ching massacre (Chinese: 肅清大屠殺) was a systematic extermination of perceived hostile elements among the Chinese in Singapore by the Japanese military during the Japanese Occupation of Singapore, after the British colony surrendered in the Battle of Singapore on 15 February 1942 during World War II.....
shouldn't we welcome the victors with open hands?
be more like LKY can or not?
if LKY can work for the victors, i am wondering why is he sacrificing singaporeans to defend singapore? why doesnt he urge singaporeans to follow his example?
be like the grass, instead of the tree.
please watch zhang yimou's film, "to live".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtSWII6Gf-o
東海和南海之爭
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1998_riots_of_Indonesia
in 98 singapore was on high alert during the riots. there was a risk of it spill over the cost. as there was notable activity on the indo side.
the sgp battalions was all on alert as chatter was high that they might have a spill over effect. Due to the possible military coup.
These are little know facts that went behind the scene the most people do not appreciate. Having a strong deterrent makes people think twice. We are small but we do bite.
http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/04/01...al-arms-buyer/
These folks talk cock sing song.
lessons from Kuwait? maybe many forgot? or just watch the invasion by Iraq as entertainment? we can very easily be kuwait if we dont pack a punch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait
Singapore being small and rich. Is just a vulnerable . Unless we pack a punch and we bite. many itchy hands will pick a reason to take advantage. being well armed is a must to make sure we are able to defend ourselves.
All these tremeritus are bull shit talkers. throw them in 98 to the wolves see what they say then. TCSS
Maybe all forget we got call the the Pi Sai by Taiwan? or Indonesia Habibie say Singapore only a red dot. or Malaysia constant threat to turn off the water ?
not to say the many postures of military exercise by Malaysia n Indonesia that was very near singapore which was never reported in the media.
Dont simply during peace time , when job is plenty and food are abundant and peace is take for granted forget there are people on the walls guarding Singapore while the rest sleep a good nigh sleep.
All these bloggers need a real slice of life then talk cock sing song and spread untruth. when the wolves are at their door banging it down see who they want to call for help.
wah piang eh, please don't turn into another minority.........all these irrelevant stuff to the discussion is pointless
I hear u are calling my name :D :D :D . Irrelevant when u are comfortable sitting at home reading ur papers enjoying digging urself. Relevant when the aggressor or mob is at ur door bang it down. want to come in dig ur ass and have a good time with ur family.
relevance? or irrelevance depends if it impact u when it happen. I hope its stay irrelevant for u.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cYuArQXifE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR-RzUUFgXU
航母杀手进驻新加坡
why not follow LKY example.
let other people fight and die.
isnt it hypocritical of LKY to ask people to die, when he himself work for the victors.
or follow swiss & israel example. every citizen keep gun at home.
when will we see this in singapore beaches?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4425657/Israeli-soldier-on-the-beach-in-a-bikini-holding-a-gun.html
I hear u are calling my name :D :D :D . Irrelevant when u are comfortable sitting at home reading ur papers enjoying digging urself. Relevant when the aggressor or mob is at ur door bang it down. want to come in dig ur ass and have a good time with ur family.
relevance? or irrelevance depends if it impact u when it happen. I hope its stay irrelevant for u.
eh moron, i've already stated this is not about whether having a strong military at all. it's about whether we can spend a little less on defence and transfer the resources to better social causes. even a 0.5% less on military translates to a significant amount.
if you don't know the context, shut up. if not, prove that spending a lesser amount would translate to Singapore being at danger of invasion
Maybe all forget we got call the the Pi Sai by Taiwan? or Indonesia Habibie say Singapore only a red dot. or Malaysia constant threat to turn off the water ?
not to say the many postures of military exercise by Malaysia n Indonesia that was very near singapore which was never reported in the media.
Dont simply during peace time , when job is plenty and food are abundant and peace is take for granted forget there are people on the walls guarding Singapore while the rest sleep a good nigh sleep.
All these bloggers need a real slice of life then talk cock sing song and spread untruth. when the wolves are at their door banging it down see who they want to call for help.
eh moron, u realize all the problems u quoted are all our failures of maintaining foreign relations. our neighbours didn't just throw us threats without due cause.
please do your own homework first before you slap yourself in the face......AGAIN :doh: :doh:
perhaps pap government are well aware of the ancient history, eg welfare in the roman empire.
if you open the door a little bit, gradually the door will open wider and wider. until system collapse. they prefer to spend money on defence, infrastructure, in fact on anything except welfare and healthcare.
eh moron, u realize all the problems u quoted are all our failures of maintaining foreign relations. our neighbours didn't just throw us threats without due cause.
please do your own homework first before you slap yourself in the face......AGAIN :doh: :doh:
really? wat dick head. If we cannot even deter foreign forces or defend ourselves. Wat make u think we are not open for reaping?
At many time we are use as scape goat becoz of the neighbor countries internal turmoil.
Spend a little less? pui. then 5 yr later u will say who not more? wat a bunch of bull. defense is defense. you like those every day KPKB folks on buy insurance are waste money. why not buy a little less. but when shit happens. you will KPKB scream why not much more.
frankly its talk cock.
perhaps pap government are well aware of the ancient history, eg welfare in the roman empire.
if you open the door a little bit, gradually the door will open wider and wider. until system collapse. they prefer to spend money on defence, infrastructure, in fact on anything except welfare and healthcare.
Who says we dont spend on health care? or u mean FREE HEALTH CARE. hah hah. these days all want FREE.
Who pay then?:doh: :doh:
eh moron, i've already stated this is not about whether having a strong military at all. it's about whether we can spend a little less on defence and transfer the resources to better social causes. even a 0.5% less on military translates to a significant amount.
if you don't know the context, shut up. if not, prove that spending a lesser amount would translate to Singapore being at danger of invasion
really 0.5% is significant ? why not 1% why not 10% blind man talk blind language.
The share of global conventional arms purchases and imports from year 2008 to 2012 are as follows (courtesy of The Stockholm Peace Research Institute):
Country, % Share of global arms purchase, Population (% of World Population)
India : 12%, 1,200m (17.1%)
China: 6%, 1,350m (19.14%)
Pakistan: 5%, 182m (2.58%)
South Korea: 5%, 50m (0.71%)
Singapore: 4%, 5m (0.07%http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/04/01/sg-small-country-but-top-global-arms-buyer/
Defence expenditure is something Singapore should never ever cut back or reduce. Especially when we have less and less Singaporean males being conscripted. We need to spend more on highly advanced weaponery to compensate for the lack of manpower, even as security threats evolve in complexity. There is no home if there is no country.
The agenda of the link above is suspect and dangerous. In fact, I would even venture to say its selfish of them to even suggest or imply we have been spending too much on defence and for you to then suggest the monies be spent on health care (highly noble and populist) is questionable. I would first question the real agenda and motive of the article and as for the questions raised by the article itself....
If I may, I copy one excellent and simple retort to the article from one reader....
Quote:
"Lucille:
April 1, 2013 at 10:33 am Lucille(Quote)
1)What’s the justification of such out-of-proportion defence spending?
To protect our ass lah you idiot.
2) Isn’t it time to review our national budget priorities so that our national resources can be more evenly utilized to the benefits of health, education and welfare of Singaporean?
If you cannot protect your country whats teh point of being healthy, educated. You fools.
3) What good does it bring in terms of regional harmony with our neighbouring countries with them knowing we have such heavy defence spending?
You probably forgotten how someone threaten to turn off the tap, block Malacca Striats, burn our flag over hanging a murderous maid, shoot down our satellite, hijack our planes. bomb our airport etc etc. You swine.
4) What’s the hidden agenda, if any??
And whats your hidden agenda to ask Spore to lay down arms."
Seems many have forgotten the story of the three little pigs and the big bad wolf.
really? wat dick head. If we cannot even deter foreign forces or defend ourselves. Wat make u think we are not open for reaping?
At many time we are use as scape goat becoz of the neighbor countries internal turmoil.
Spend a little less? pui. then 5 yr later u will say who not more? wat a bunch of bull. defense is defense. you like those every day KPKB folks on buy insurance are waste money. why not buy a little less. but when shit happens. you will KPKB scream why not much more.
frankly its talk cock.
eh moron, please go read up on history. our neighbours didn't make damning comments about singapore without us making provocative statements first.
if you don't even know your case studies in detail, you fail
really? wat dick head. If we cannot even deter foreign forces or defend ourselves. Wat make u think we are not open for reaping?
At many time we are use as scape goat becoz of the neighbor countries internal turmoil.
Spend a little less? pui. then 5 yr later u will say who not more? wat a bunch of bull. defense is defense. you like those every day KPKB folks on buy insurance are waste money. why not buy a little less. but when shit happens. you will KPKB scream why not much more.
frankly its talk cock.
eh moron, do you even know the vast difference between our defence and healthcare spending??!
please lah, do yourself a favor and go do some homework before you even attempt to debate.
just like your major face-slapping statement "Manufacturing is not an economic pillar of Singapore" :doh: :doh:
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, go read what MTI wrote in the papers today
[quote=Jaykj]Defence expenditure is something Singapore should never ever cut back or reduce. Especially when we have less and less Singaporean males being conscripted. We need to spend more on highly advanced weaponery to compensate for the lack of manpower, even as security threats evolve in complexity. There is no home if there is no country.
The agenda of the link above is suspect and dangerous. In fact, I would even venture to say its selfish of them to even suggest or imply we have been spending too much on defence and for you to then suggest the monies be spent on health care (highly noble and populist) is questionable. I would first question the real agenda and motive of the article and as for the questions raised by the article itself....
If I may, I copy one excellent and simple retort to the article from one reader....
quote]
then it is your, and those who support such high amount of defence spending, onus to prove that a 0.5% reduction would amount to a weakened defence.
taiwan faces the very real threat of reunification with china but spends less than us, conscripts a shorter period than us. s korea has to deal with nuclear threats and conscripts a shorter period than us. both have really huge land mass to defend. hence, i say we can learn to from them.
i repeat again - this argument is not about to put defence spending at zero but whether resources can be put to other national uses. as to all the examples of "water tap turning off", please note that it was solved not through flexing of military might, but diplomatic efforts (plus, please go read up the historical context and the then-perpetual boxing fight between mahatir and LKY).
really 0.5% is significant ? why not 1% why not 10% blind man talk blind language.
this only goes to show u don't even know how big the difference is between defence and healthcare spending.
do your homework before you even try to pick a fight :doh: :doh:
[quote=Jaykj]Defence expenditure is something Singapore should never ever cut back or reduce. Especially when we have less and less Singaporean males being conscripted. We need to spend more on highly advanced weaponery to compensate for the lack of manpower, even as security threats evolve in complexity. There is no home if there is no country.
The agenda of the link above is suspect and dangerous. In fact, I would even venture to say its selfish of them to even suggest or imply we have been spending too much on defence and for you to then suggest the monies be spent on health care (highly noble and populist) is questionable. I would first question the real agenda and motive of the article and as for the questions raised by the article itself....
If I may, I copy one excellent and simple retort to the article from one reader....
quote]
then it is your, and those who support such high amount of defence spending, onus to prove that a 0.5% reduction would amount to a weakened defence.
taiwan faces the very real threat of reunification with china but spends less than us, conscripts a shorter period than us. s korea has to deal with nuclear threats and conscripts a shorter period than us. both have really huge land mass to defend. hence, i say we can learn to from them.
i repeat again - this argument is not about to put defence spending at zero but whether resources can be put to other national uses. as to all the examples of "water tap turning off", please note that it was solved not through flexing of military might, but diplomatic efforts (plus, please go read up the historical context and the then-perpetual boxing fight between mahatir and LKY).
The `proof' if any, will be when we are over-run by invaders and we will be FIBUA in Pinnacle at Duxton instead of Ama Keng. It will be too late by then and I'm not prepared to `test' and see if it works. It's in our blood and genes to be kiasu....we have too, especially when our land mass is so small as non-stop artillery or air raid can bring us to our knees in 24-48 hours I reckon.
We can complain about Minister's pay, govt levies, brompton bicycles etc but please do not discuss defence spending.
i find people kena brainwashed by government easily.
a little bit of thinking will help
1) the threats made by neigbouring countries are for INTERNAL consumption, to "wayang" their own population and not to be taken seriously by singapore.
2) singapore govt pay bribes to both govt and opposition members in neighbouring countries. and you know bribes have a tendency to become larger and larger. if an official demand for bribes goes to much, down he goes via scandals about corruption or sex.
3) if i am malaysia pm, hell bent intent on taking over singapore. I would buy lots and lots of artillery and station them in johor, which will cover the entire island of singapore, target the infrastructure first, like electrical generation, fuel bunkers, runways, telecommunication. cut off food, water supply.
No need to even send soldiers set foot in singapore.
4) the threat of war also enough to send singapore economy into recession, lower property prices, send investors running.
under CONSTANT threat of war, singapore mobilised reserves 100k NS men. so who is working and contributing to economy?
5) even if Singapore wins battle of singapore and occupies johor, what is singapore going to do with the occupied territories?
6) singapore has no strategic depth, malaysia can retreat all the way to penang.
sometimes, i :doh: singaporeans really believed they can deter malaysia and/or indonesia if they really serious.
but thanks to skillful usage of bribes, playing off bigger dogs against each other, singapore is at peace.
in this regard, i do support eng8157, can do with 1 less F-35 and spend more on healthcare, education etc.
eh moron, please go read up on history. our neighbours didn't make damning comments about singapore without us making provocative statements first.
if you don't even know your case studies in detail, you fail
u are blind. fail on sight! :doh: :doh: :doh:
Seems many have forgotten the story of the three little pigs and the big bad wolf.
When all so full and comfy... WAT wolf?
When wolf come then cry wolf mah. Then KPKB. tats wat the blind folks here are saying.
i find people kena brainwashed by government easily.
a little bit of thinking will help
1) the threats made by neigbouring countries are for INTERNAL consumption, to "wayang" their own population and not to be taken seriously by singapore.
2) singapore govt pay bribes to both govt and opposition members in neighbouring countries. and you know bribes have a tendency to become larger and larger. if an official demand for bribes goes to much, down he goes via scandals about corruption or sex.
3) if i am malaysia pm, hell bent intent on taking over singapore. I would buy lots and lots of artillery and station them in johor, which will cover the entire island of singapore, target the infrastructure first, like electrical generation, fuel bunkers, runways, telecommunication. cut off food, water supply.
No need to even send soldiers set foot in singapore.
4) the threat of war also enough to send singapore economy into recession, lower property prices, send investors running.
under CONSTANT threat of war, singapore mobilised reserves 100k NS men. so who is working and contributing to economy?
5) even if Singapore wins battle of singapore and occupies johor, what is singapore going to do with the occupied territories?
6) singapore has no strategic depth, malaysia can retreat all the way to penang.
sometimes, i :doh: singaporeans really believed they can deter malaysia and/or indonesia if they really serious.
but thanks to skillful usage of bribes, playing off bigger dogs against each other, singapore is at peace.
in this regard, i do support eng8157, can do with 1 less F-35 and spend more on healthcare, education etc.
I find u guy so easily lap up junk form such hate blog site. Cannot tell the agenda? wat joke.
I can understand the want for alternative media. but to lap up any junk you guys read on line. tats really immature.
Are u even singaporean? or did ur NS? maybe like the ah eng are either store man , clerks or cooks or maybe keng ah kua get excuse NS?
We are never train as aggressor. We are train to defend and to deter. What we lack in man power we augment with technology. We might be small but we bite.
Want to be ah kua peng nation? hah hah ... wat a joke
[quote=eng81157]
The `proof' if any, will be when we are over-run by invaders and we will be FIBUA in Pinnacle at Duxton instead of Ama Keng. It will be too late by then and I'm not prepared to `test' and see if it works. It's in our blood and genes to be kiasu....we have too, especially when our land mass is so small as non-stop artillery or air raid can bring us to our knees in 24-48 hours I reckon.
We can complain about Minister's pay, govt levies, brompton bicycles etc but please do not discuss defence spending.
thus, are you implying by having a 0.5% cut in defence spending, we will be overrun by invaders?
[quote=Jaykj]
thus, are you implying by having a 0.5% cut in defence spending, we will be overrun by invaders?
u are implying 0.5% cut will have huge benefit to health care?
I find u guy so easily lap up junk form such hate blog site. Cannot tell the agenda? wat joke.
I can understand the want for alternative media. but to lap up any junk you guys read on line. tats really immature.
Are u even singaporean? or did ur NS? maybe like the ah eng are either store man , clerks or cooks or maybe keng ah kua get excuse NS?
We are never train as aggressor. We are train to defend and to deter. What we lack in man power we augment with technology. We might be small but we bite.
Want to be ah kua peng nation? hah hah ... wat a joke
WAHAHAHAHA, spending less on defence = being an ah kua peng nation!!!!
WOOHOO!!!! thanks but i never knew stupidity can go to such low extremes
WAHAHAHAHA, spending less on defence = being an ah kua peng nation!!!!
WOOHOO!!!! thanks but i never knew stupidity can go to such low extremes
u are the ah kua peng mentality. BO JEE..
I find u guy so easily lap up junk form such hate blog site. Cannot tell the agenda? wat joke.
I can understand the want for alternative media. but to lap up any junk you guys read on line. tats really immature.
......
Want to be ah kua peng nation? hah hah ... wat a joke
sorry, but you are diverting, not actually responding to my points mentioned above. let me break down.
eg.
1) if malaysia on war footing and threatened war with singapore, what will happen to singapore's economy, property prices, the inflow/outflow of foreigner, foreign investments.
2) if malaysia actually go to war with singapore, what will happen to singapore's economy, property prices, the inflow/outflow of foreigner, foreign investments.
3) if singapore win the battle of singapore, do you things will go back to normal, eg HDB goes back to the normal price, investor will continue to see Singapore as safe haven etc?
sorry, but you are diverting, not actually responding to my points mentioned above. let me break down.
eg.
1) if malaysia on war footing and threatened war with singapore, what will happen to singapore's economy, property prices, the inflow/outflow of foreigner, foreign investments.
2) if malaysia actually go to war with singapore, what will happen to singapore's economy, property prices, the inflow/outflow of foreigner, foreign investments.
3) if singapore win the battle of singapore, do you things will go back to normal, eg HDB goes back to the normal price, investor will continue to see Singapore as safe haven etc?
Sometimes it's not necessary to respond to every provocation as responding to it is already playing into the hands of the perpetrators.
I remember you are an Indonesian. Why do you use Malaysia as an example of an aggressor? What is your motive? Are you driving a wedge between us, seeing that ties are warming between Singapore & Malaysia? Why do you urge us to spend less on defense and thus weaken our security?
It is obvious Singapore cannot afford even the slightest security threat and you are asking all the rhetorical questions. In any case, we do not discuss such matters in a public forum like this.
[quote=eng81157]
u are implying 0.5% cut will have huge benefit to health care?
Quote me on this - YES!!!
WAHAHAHAHA, spending less on defence = being an ah kua peng nation!!!!
WOOHOO!!!! thanks but i never knew stupidity can go to such low extremes
US spends how much to fight in Afghanistan?
The Talibans spend how much to fight in Afghanistan?
Is the US winning or the Talibans winning?
Looks like the ah kuas are winning LOL.
he is dumb indeed.
u are the ah kua peng mentality. BO JEE..
i knew you were stupid, but i never knew you were eyeing my jewels too :scared-5: :scared-5:
k k, let me just use your "Bo Jee" theory to slap your face
if i'm cowardly, i would spend even more money to defend myself
if i'm brave or even foolhardy, i would just rush into a fight bare-handed.
tada, don't even need to use logic to slap you. WAHAHAHAHAHA
i knew you were stupid, but i never knew you were eyeing my jewels too :scared-5: :scared-5:
k k, let me just use your "Bo Jee" theory to slap your face
if i'm cowardly, i would spend even more money to defend myself
if i'm brave or even foolhardy, i would just rush into a fight bare-handed.
tada, don't even need to use logic to slap you. WAHAHAHAHAHA
LOL,
your friend there dunno why every day also so angry, complain n complain, wait he burst a blood vessel.
Sometimes it's not necessary to respond to every provocation as responding to it is already playing into the hands of the perpetrators.
I remember you are an Indonesian. Why do you use Malaysia as an example of an aggressor? What is your motive? Are you driving a wedge between us, seeing that ties are warming between Singapore & Malaysia? Why do you urge us to spend less on defense and thus weaken our security?
It is obvious Singapore cannot afford even the slightest security threat and you are asking all the rhetorical questions. In any case, we do not discuss such matters in a public forum like this.
A simple find "malaysia" and replace with "indonesia". are you happier?
1) if indonesia on war footing and threatened war with singapore, what will happen to singapore's economy, property prices, the inflow/outflow of foreigner, foreign investments.
2) if indonesia actually go to war with singapore, what will happen to singapore's economy, property prices, the inflow/outflow of foreigner, foreign investments.
3) if singapore win the battle of singapore, do you think life will go back to normal, eg HDB goes back to the normal price, investor will continue to see Singapore as safe haven etc?
what if a single indonesian barrage lands in raffles place, would property price drop 50%? would singapore occupying batam restore raffles place property prices to what it was?
dont be silly, it is not military hardware that is the ones protecting singapore.
and of course, nobody else want to say lky is hypocritical. he collaborated with the victors and yet he ask other people to die?
How many soldiers die while the generals enjoy the high life?
to a peasant, it doesnt matter who the master is. one master is as bad as another. so why should peasant die for the master? afterall, what every master wants are the fruits of my labour. the new master is not interested in my life, only my labour. the peasant just have to learn new language.
again, my favourite yet unanswered questions:
1) who controls the billions in CPF, Temasek, GIC money if singapore loses and/or forms a government in exile?
2) can a singaporean overseas withdraw cpf money from singapore embassies?
eh moron, i've already stated this is not about whether having a strong military at all. it's about whether we can spend a little less on defence and transfer the resources to better social causes. even a 0.5% less on military translates to a significant amount.
if you don't know the context, shut up. if not, prove that spending a lesser amount would translate to Singapore being at danger of invasion
This statement is correct.
Its not about not having any defence, it about how much is enough.
Unfortunately, there is no clear answer on that. It depends how vulnerable or insecure we feel. And that cannot be measured. So arguments on defence budget will be perpetually unresolved.
We have to be careful of SHIT STIRRERS like this guy here....
why not follow LKY example.
let other people fight and die.
isnt it hypocritical of LKY to ask people to die, when he himself work for the victors.
or follow swiss & israel example. every citizen keep gun at home.
when will we see this in singapore beaches?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4425657/Israeli-soldier-on-the-beach-in-a-bikini-holding-a-gun.html
This statement is correct.
Its not about not having any defence, it about how much is enough.
Unfortunately, there is no clear answer on that. It depends how vulnerable or insecure we feel. And that cannot be measured. So arguments on defence budget will be perpetually unresolved.
thanks. if we consider the notion that 1 less F-16D can build 1-2 nursing homes, do we then say having one less F-16D will amount to a heightened danger of invasion and thus, we hold off building 2 nursing homes for the population needs?
We have to be careful of SHIT STIRRERS like this guy here....
which part of the post is factually incorrect?
We have to be careful of SHIT STIRRERS like this guy here....
how so?
i find many sporeans unprepared to face the hard truth and prefer to drown themselves in the propaganda concocted by the 'nation-building' media.
You have made a lot of baseless accusations here. You are an ungrateful foreigner reaping the rewards of the peace that my country has offered you.
You are right that there are many ways to "strangle" Singapore without even setting foot here. But are you aware that those actions constitute an act of war under provisions of the Geneva Convention?
I don't suppose so..... you see you are a smart alec... know a little bit but claim to know all and still want to lecture us and distort history and fact.
My fellow Singaporeans... there are too many sensitive issues that shouldn't be discussed here but I assure you that there are ROEs (rules of engagement) that allow us to act if such aggression is thrust upon us. There are many reasons why some neighbours would want to do us harm.... again ... too sensitive to discuss here...
The question is how do we or can we respond?... of course diplomacy is top on the list... but carrying a big stick behind our back helps. Remember that politics is our neighbouring countries are fickle, who is friendly to us today may not be tomorrow.
This joker here is diverting the intent of the thread... which is .. are we spending too much on defence a very valid question... he is turning it around to lecture us.
i find people kena brainwashed by government easily.
a little bit of thinking will help
1) the threats made by neigbouring countries are for INTERNAL consumption, to "wayang" their own population and not to be taken seriously by singapore.
2) singapore govt pay bribes to both govt and opposition members in neighbouring countries. and you know bribes have a tendency to become larger and larger. if an official demand for bribes goes to much, down he goes via scandals about corruption or sex.
3) if i am malaysia pm, hell bent intent on taking over singapore. I would buy lots and lots of artillery and station them in johor, which will cover the entire island of singapore, target the infrastructure first, like electrical generation, fuel bunkers, runways, telecommunication. cut off food, water supply.
No need to even send soldiers set foot in singapore.
4) the threat of war also enough to send singapore economy into recession, lower property prices, send investors running.
under CONSTANT threat of war, singapore mobilised reserves 100k NS men. so who is working and contributing to economy?
5) even if Singapore wins battle of singapore and occupies johor, what is singapore going to do with the occupied territories?
6) singapore has no strategic depth, malaysia can retreat all the way to penang.
sometimes, i :doh: singaporeans really believed they can deter malaysia and/or indonesia if they really serious.
but thanks to skillful usage of bribes, playing off bigger dogs against each other, singapore is at peace.
in this regard, i do support eng8157, can do with 1 less F-35 and spend more on healthcare, education etc.
sorry, but you are diverting, not actually responding to my points mentioned above. let me break down.
eg.
1) if malaysia on war footing and threatened war with singapore, what will happen to singapore's economy, property prices, the inflow/outflow of foreigner, foreign investments.
2) if malaysia actually go to war with singapore, what will happen to singapore's economy, property prices, the inflow/outflow of foreigner, foreign investments.
3) if singapore win the battle of singapore, do you things will go back to normal, eg HDB goes back to the normal price, investor will continue to see Singapore as safe haven etc?
In Case u have not learn how to read ENGLISH. I recommend u read again. I say we are deterrent not aggression doctrine. if u dont understand u can go book store get a dick tionary. to check.
[quote=minority]
Quote me on this - YES!!!
YES! LOL. YES U ARE BLIND? YES U ARE STUPID? YES U CANNOT MAKE IT? or YES U are AH KUA?
[quote=eng81157]
YES! LOL. YES U ARE BLIND? YES U ARE STUPID? YES U CANNOT MAKE IT? or YES U are AH KUA?
WAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! i always knew u had difficulty following what others are talking about, never knew u even have trouble following your own train of thoughts.
i can't find even find a worse phrase than 'stupid' to describe u
[quote=minority]
WAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! i always knew u had difficulty following what others are talking about, never knew u even have trouble following your own train of thoughts.
i can't find even find a worse phrase than 'stupid' to describe u
ANOTHER YES for u.!
U ARE A JUST PLAIN STUPID!.
You have rightly pointed out that Singapore is very vulnerable.
Things will never be the same if we go to war. Being bullied by your neighbours is different from being invaded by a distant foreign force as in WW2. Investments will drain and property prices will plummet.
So... do I just sit and watch... allow it to happen?
But one thing for sure... people like you will flee... that much is guaranteed.
A simple find "malaysia" and replace with "indonesia". are you happier?
1) if indonesia on war footing and threatened war with singapore, what will happen to singapore's economy, property prices, the inflow/outflow of foreigner, foreign investments.
2) if indonesia actually go to war with singapore, what will happen to singapore's economy, property prices, the inflow/outflow of foreigner, foreign investments.
3) if singapore win the battle of singapore, do you think life will go back to normal, eg HDB goes back to the normal price, investor will continue to see Singapore as safe haven etc?
what if a single indonesian barrage lands in raffles place, would property price drop 50%? would singapore occupying batam restore raffles place property prices to what it was?
dont be silly, it is not military hardware that is the ones protecting singapore.
and of course, nobody else want to say lky is hypocritical. he collaborated with the victors and yet he ask other people to die?
How many soldiers die while the generals enjoy the high life?
to a peasant, it doesnt matter who the master is. one master is as bad as another. so why should peasant die for the master? afterall, what every master wants are the fruits of my labour. the new master is not interested in my life, only my labour. the peasant just have to learn new language.
again, my favourite yet unanswered questions:
1) who controls the billions in CPF, Temasek, GIC money if singapore loses and/or forms a government in exile?
2) can a singaporean overseas withdraw cpf money from singapore embassies?
let me put more info up for everyone to have a better perspective. all these are available in the public domain and should not be deemed sensitive.
"The Ministry of Defence's total expenditure in the financial year 2012 'is projected to be $12.28 billion', the budget report said."
"A total of $4.7 billion is allocated to MOH in FY2012 to achieve this mission."
Seems disproportionate.
I think more can be spent expanding the capabilities of the polyclinics... waits there can be 3-4 hours.
let me put more info up for everyone to have a better perspective. all these are available in the public domain and should not be deemed sensitive.
"The Ministry of Defence's total expenditure in the financial year 2012 'is projected to be $12.28 billion', the budget report said."
"A total of $4.7 billion is allocated to MOH in FY2012 to achieve this mission."
let me put more info up for everyone to have a better perspective. all these are available in the public domain and should not be deemed sensitive.
"The Ministry of Defence's total expenditure in the financial year 2012 'is projected to be $12.28 billion', the budget report said."
"A total of $4.7 billion is allocated to MOH in FY2012 to achieve this mission."
So ? Wat does this tells me? Arms are not cheap? what abt medical insurance? u mean everything are free funded by government ?
Do you pay arms tax? or u mean when there is a aggression come collect $ from u to protect dicks like u?
dont confuse going to see a doctor and preparing to go see a doctor if sickness strike.
wat a dick head. :doh: :doh: :doh:
You have rightly pointed out that Singapore is very vulnerable.
Things will never be the same if we go to war. Being bullied by your neighbours is different from being invaded by a distant foreign force as in WW2. Investments will drain and property prices will plummet.
So... do I just sit and watch... allow it to happen?
But one thing for sure... people like you will flee... that much is guaranteed.
LKY just sit and watch, allow it to happened didnt he? And you have nothing to say about his action?
Seems disproportionate.
I think more can be spent expanding the capabilities of the polyclinics... waits there can be 3-4 hours.
wait for taxi to go see doctor also seems long when u need it. shall we also have taxi travel improvement as part of the health care budget too? seems reasonable to me. I would persevere health care be a door to door service. Must be FREE and must also be fast and even better right?
F it!. get the doctor come on house visit for every citizen. afterall its our right to be taken care of too!
Frankly there are so much we can ask for before we have to pay for it via taxes. question to all the noise makers here are u willing to pay 45%?
Anyone tried the Brunei $1 medical service? pls share how many 4 hrs the wait is and the quality of the service.
So ? Wat does this tells me? Arms are not cheap? what abt medical insurance? u mean everything are free funded by government ?
Do you pay arms tax? or u mean when there is a aggression come collect $ from u to protect dicks like u?
dont confuse going to see a doctor and preparing to go see a doctor if sickness strike.
wat a dick head. :doh: :doh: :doh:
moron, scroll up and read. i take $0.02bil from the defence budget, i build 1-2 more nursing homes.
totally nonsensical
Seems disproportionate.
I think more can be spent expanding the capabilities of the polyclinics... waits there can be 3-4 hours.
thanks for echoing similar sentiments
before the figures were up, we were going either "spend less on defence = NO defence", or "spend more on defence = increased state of security"
now the truth is out. can we transfer $0.02-0.05bil from the defence budget to healthcare budget? can we delay the purchase of two F16Ds and build more healthcare infrastructure to meet immediate population needs instead?
that is the point of the debate.
.........
You are right that there are many ways to "strangle" Singapore without even setting foot here. But are you aware that those actions constitute an act of war under provisions of the Geneva Convention?
......
even if singapore initiate aggression taking pre-emptive strikes in response to acts of war by indonesia, like naval blockade, shutting down Natunas gas supply, it still loses.
singapore might win military, but it will still lose the shine of it being a safe haven. And once it loses the status of safe haven, how many people will come back to singapore?
100 thousand able bodied NSmen being called up for months on end, to deter any invasion by indonesia. what will it do to the economy?
again, it is not the military hardware that is defending singapore.
it is the briberies and skillful playing off the 2 big neighbours that are protecting singapore.
to address your point that i am diverting the thread, singapore is definitely spending too much on defence budget, especially on the hardware side.
what it has done rightly is to make it too valuable to be attacked, to be like the golden goose. like if you leave me alone, you continue to receive your monthly golden eggs. if not, well......nobody wins.
The air force by virtue of the cost of hardware will consume a sizeable potion of the budget. Fighter planes and choppers cost helluva lot to buy.... specialised training for air and ground crew means means more money too.
However, the problem Singapore faces is lack of depth in battle... basically we have no ground/land to fight. Even Israel has a buffer.
But applying the same strategy... if a war has to be fought, it cannot be fought close to home... it has to be brought further away out and only the air force can do that. If somebody wants to wage war on us, the air force has to deliver the war to their front door and into their living room, bedroom and toilets.
Without a credible airforce, there is in fact no deterrent element.
Again.... how many F-16s, F-15 and Apaches is enough... and how many is too much?... That is difficult
thanks. if we consider the notion that 1 less F-16D can build 1-2 nursing homes, do we then say having one less F-16D will amount to a heightened danger of invasion and thus, we hold off building 2 nursing homes for the population needs?
The air force by virtue of the cost of hardware will consume a sizeable potion of the budget. Fighter planes and choppers cost helluva lot to buy.... specialised training for air and ground crew means means more money too.
However, the problem Singapore faces is lack of depth in battle... basically we have no ground/land to fight. Even Israel has a buffer.
But applying the same startegy... if a war has to be fought, it cannot be fought close to home... it has to be brought further away out and only the air force can do that. If somebody wants to wage war on us, the air force has to deliver the war to their front door and into their living room, bedroom and toilets.
Without a credible airforce, there is in fact no deterrent element.
Again.... how many F-16s, F-15 and Apaches is enough... and how many is too much?... That is difficult
let me put a different perspective to your story. rather than saying we do not purchase the planes, can they be purchased a year later while resources are channeled to more immediate concerns?
the official rhetoric is that "if we increase healthcare spending, we gotta hike taxes". to me, that's BS
let me then put a even further spin on this topic. look at taiwan's healthcare system - worldclass and yet kept really affordable through a national insurance system. can we take a leaf and learn?
our healthcare system does not reward the population for staying healthy or shift the citizens toward a healthy lifestyle. the sicker are you, the more resources you consume, the national healthcare expenditure goes up. can we look at spending less but devise policies and programs toward getting people to stay healthy? there is certainly a lot of room to be done
What exactly are you talking about?
What has this discussion have to do with LKY?
LKY just sit and watch, allow it to happened didnt he? And you have nothing to say about his action?
let me put a different perspective to your story. rather than saying we do not purchase the planes, can they be purchased a year later while resources are channeled to more immediate concerns?
the official rhetoric is that "if we increase healthcare spending, we gotta hike taxes". to me, that's BS
Agree. But I am not sure if hiking the taxes to improve healthcare is the official rhetoric. But I guess that would be true, the money has to come from somewhere.
Anyway, wrt healthcare and defence spending there was a suggestion to introduce NS to female Singaporeans. The idea was to enlist females for NS in the healthcare services, train them and deploy them in the health care infrastructure as nurses, assistants, caregivers....etc. This was supposed to reduce our dependency on foreign health care support workers and at the same time make it equitable to the Singaporean male.
However, this idea was opposed by the Nurses Association.
What exactly are you talking about?
What has this discussion have to do with LKY?
i think he was refering to an earlier point about how some leaders have their own personal agenda that may not be aligned with the interests of the people they lead.
Agree. But I am not sure if hiking the taxes to improve healthcare is the official rhetoric. But I guess that would be true, the money has to come from somewhere.
Anyway, wrt healthcare and defence spending there was a suggestion to introduce NS to female Singaporeans. The idea was to enlist females for NS in the healthcare services, train them and deploy them in the health care infrastructure as nurses, assistants, caregivers....etc. This was supposed to reduce our dependency on foreign health care support workers and at the same time make it equitable to the Singaporean male.
However, this idea was opposed by the Nurses Association.
yes, hiking taxes is the official rhetoric. you can read up in the news in Feb/Mar. the money doesn't have to come from the citizens when there is a whopping $300+bn of surpluses in a single year.
it ain't hard to understand why the idea was turned down. look at the quality of SAF's doctors & medics. look at how the camps are only now being equipped with defribillators. look at how the PES A NSF dropped dead because he had a cogenital heart defect. the irony is he was certified to be PES A, and all MINDEF did was "sorry there is no way such a defect can be picked up during screening. there are so many preventable deaths but........(don't get me started on this)
Singapore will not initiate aggression. Under established ROEs, Singapore has the right to strike back when acts of war are upon us.
Yes... when Singapore does that.... life as we know it is gone. Nobody will feel safe anymore...
But if we don't do it... what then?... we are equally screwed when our water is cut, artillery units are lined towards us and sea lanes are blocked.
Now both scenarios will end up with Singapore screwed. But one option has a penalty for the aggressor the other does not.
even if singapore initiate aggression taking pre-emptive strikes in response to acts of war by indonesia, like naval blockade, shutting down Natunas gas supply, it still loses.
singapore might win military, but it will still lose the shine of it being a safe haven. And once it loses the status of safe haven, how many people will come back to singapore?
100 thousand able bodied NSmen being called up for months on end, to deter any invasion by indonesia. what will it do to the economy?
again, it is not the military hardware that is defending singapore.
it is the briberies and skillful playing off the 2 big neighbours that are protecting singapore.
to address your point that i am diverting the thread, singapore is definitely spending too much on defence budget, especially on the hardware side.
what it has done rightly is to make it too valuable to be attacked, to be like the golden goose. like if you leave me alone, you continue to receive your monthly golden eggs. if not, well......nobody wins.
moron, scroll up and read. i take $0.02bil from the defence budget, i build 1-2 more nursing homes.
totally nonsensical
u are nonsensical
oh right u can build and run a few nursing home with 20M... right..... docs no need to pay , ambulance no need to buy... land leh?
let me put a different perspective to your story. rather than saying we do not purchase the planes, can they be purchased a year later while resources are channeled to more immediate concerns?
the official rhetoric is that "if we increase healthcare spending, we gotta hike taxes". to me, that's BS
to me cut defense is BS. go hike tax then.
.....
Now both scenarios will end up with Singapore screwed. But one option has a penalty for the aggressor the other does not....
in ancient times, it matters not to the peasant whether he sings the national anthem of country A or country B. Both kings tax their peasants and mistreated them.
just be aware of the difference of how the mongols treated the cities that resisted their conquests and those that accepted their rule.
as recently as WWII, the malays were treated better under Japanese rule. why? according to some history books, they collaborated with japanese and didnt resist as much.
if singapore resisted fiercely and is conquered, what would be the retribution inflicted on the populace?
would it matter to an average singaporean if indonesia or malaysia take over singapore?
btw, the elites of singapore would be safe in another part of the world. and will still be controlling the billions in the GIC, Temasek funds. Do you still want to follow the orders to resist the invasion? you die, they get to enjoy.
in ancient times, it matters not to the peasant whether he sings the national anthem of country A or country B. Both kings tax their peasants and mistreated them.
just be aware of the difference of how the mongols treated the cities that resisted their conquests and those that accepted their rule.
as recently as WWII, the malays were treated better under Japanese rule. why? according to some history books, they collaborated with japanese and didnt resist as much.
if singapore resisted fiercely and is conquered, what would be the retribution inflicted on the populace?
would it matter to an average singaporean if indonesia or malaysia take over singapore?
btw, the elites of singapore would be safe in another part of the world. and will still be controlling the billions in the GIC, Temasek funds. Do you still want to follow the orders to resist the invasion? you die, they get to enjoy.
Wat a joke . Licking a toes of ur aggressor u think is right thing to do? U bloody ah Kua.
Even as a captive it's the directive to regain control from ur aggressor. So by what u are saying. I come ur home kick down ur door. Have ur daughter eat ur good n kick u to the maids room. U ok with it? Talk cock chow ah Kua leh.
Wat a joke . Licking a toes of ur aggressor u think is right thing to do? U bloody ah Kua.
Even as a captive it's the directive to regain control from ur aggressor. So by what u are saying. I come ur home kick down ur door. Have ur daughter eat ur good n kick u to the maids room. U ok with it? Talk cock chow ah Kua leh.
did u not know LKY worked for the Japanese during WW2? Are u going to call him an ah Kua?? wahahahahahaha!
Its unthinkable that any Singaporean that reads this doesn't have a problem with it.
in ancient times, it matters not to the peasant whether he sings the national anthem of country A or country B. Both kings tax their peasants and mistreated them.
just be aware of the difference of how the mongols treated the cities that resisted their conquests and those that accepted their rule.
as recently as WWII, the malays were treated better under Japanese rule. why? according to some history books, they collaborated with japanese and didnt resist as much.
if singapore resisted fiercely and is conquered, what would be the retribution inflicted on the populace?
would it matter to an average singaporean if indonesia or malaysia take over singapore?
btw, the elites of singapore would be safe in another part of the world. and will still be controlling the billions in the GIC, Temasek funds. Do you still want to follow the orders to resist the invasion? you die, they get to enjoy.
Its unthinkable that any Singaporean that reads this doesn't have a problem with it.
what's the problem? that the truth hurts? :cool:
Dude... you have a problem with LKY or PAP... that's fine, it's your right. No arguments.
But if you are a Singaporean and you agree with what this Indonesian fella Hopeful here is saying about not resisting an invasion and that it doesn't matter whether the Malayasians or Indonesians are our masters.... then I think you have a problem.
what's the problem? that the truth hurts? :cool:
Regulators
02-04-13, 21:13
no wonder you have no real sense of belonging coz you don't understand the true meaning of loyalty n sacrifice n what motherland means. :doh:
in ancient times, it matters not to the peasant whether he sings the national anthem of country A or country B. Both kings tax their peasants and mistreated them.
just be aware of the difference of how the mongols treated the cities that resisted their conquests and those that accepted their rule.
as recently as WWII, the malays were treated better under Japanese rule. why? according to some history books, they collaborated with japanese and didnt resist as much.
if singapore resisted fiercely and is conquered, what would be the retribution inflicted on the populace?
would it matter to an average singaporean if indonesia or malaysia take over singapore?
btw, the elites of singapore would be safe in another part of the world. and will still be controlling the billions in the GIC, Temasek funds. Do you still want to follow the orders to resist the invasion? you die, they get to enjoy.
when you say you are defending singapore against external enemy,
what are you actually defending?
is it
1) your lifestyle ?
2) your family ?
3) your relatives and friend ?
4) your properties ?
since this is a property forum, lets consider 4) first.
initially lets say your properties are worth $1million.
harsh words commenced, what happen to your property, drop 5%? so now you are defending your properties worth $950k.
posturing becomes worse, indonesia conduct military exercise, drop 10% so now you are defending your properties worth $850k.
1st shot fire, now you are defending your properties worth $500k.
1 month down, your properties are now rubble. you are defending stones worth $0k.
You are laying down your life to defend stones worth $0k?
would it not be better if you sell at $850k ?
point 1) in a war, would your lifestyle be worsened if you stay in warzone? would there be food shortages, water shortages, would your stress level increase? definitely, so isnt it more likely if you move out of the warzone, you can maintain your lifestyle.
point 2) would you put your family in a warzone? I wouldn't. I would get them to a safe place as soon as possible.
A forummer expressed concerned about female family members getting raped. If the female members are not in the warzone, then they would not be there to be rape isn't it? So move the female members out of the warzone.
3) would you want your friends and relatives to be safe? the best way is to inform them to move out of harm's way.
So when people say they are defending singapore, what are they actually defending about?
Although i made the statement about the elites enjoying the GIC, Temasek funds without factual evidence (while peons die), can anybody point out to the contrary? give reasonable conjecture etc,
and can singaporeans overseas withdraw CPF funds from singapore embassies?
when you say you are defending singapore against external enemy,
what are you actually defending?
is it
1) your lifestyle ?
2) your family ?
3) your relatives and friend ?
4) your properties ?
since this is a property forum, lets consider 4) first.
initially lets say your properties are worth $1million.
harsh words commenced, what happen to your property, drop 5%? so now you are defending your properties worth $950k.
posturing becomes worse, indonesia conduct military exercise, drop 10% so now you are defending your properties worth $850k.
1st shot fire, now you are defending your properties worth $500k.
1 month down, your properties are now rubble. you are defending stones worth $0k.
You are laying down your life to defend stones worth $0k?
would it not be better if you sell at $850k ?
point 1) in a war, would your lifestyle be worsened if you stay in warzone? would there be food shortages, water shortages, would your stress level increase? definitely, so isnt it more likely if you move out of the warzone, you can maintain your lifestyle.
point 2) would you put your family in a warzone? I wouldn't. I would get them to a safe place as soon as possible.
A forummer expressed concerned about female family members getting raped. If the female members are not in the warzone, then they would not be there to be rape isn't it? So move the female members out of the warzone.
3) would you want your friends and relatives to be safe? the best way is to inform them to move out of harm's way.
So when people say they are defending singapore, what are they actually defending about?
Although i made the statement about the elites enjoying the GIC, Temasek funds without factual evidence (while peons die), can anybody point out to the contrary? give reasonable conjecture etc,
and can singaporeans overseas withdraw CPF funds from singapore embassies?
obviously u never serve NS before u should go spend 2.5 yrs there. ur questions are pointless.
what's the problem? that the truth hurts? :cool:
Its Bullshit u guys are eating. it dont hurts. it just make u all smell bad. Thats why we are telling u guys stink.
when you say you are defending singapore against external enemy,
what are you actually defending?
is it
1) your lifestyle ?
2) your family ?
3) your relatives and friend ?
4) your properties ?
since this is a property forum, lets consider 4) first.
initially lets say your properties are worth $1million.
harsh words commenced, what happen to your property, drop 5%? so now you are defending your properties worth $950k.
posturing becomes worse, indonesia conduct military exercise, drop 10% so now you are defending your properties worth $850k.
1st shot fire, now you are defending your properties worth $500k.
1 month down, your properties are now rubble. you are defending stones worth $0k.
You are laying down your life to defend stones worth $0k?
would it not be better if you sell at $850k ?
point 1) in a war, would your lifestyle be worsened if you stay in warzone? would there be food shortages, water shortages, would your stress level increase? definitely, so isnt it more likely if you move out of the warzone, you can maintain your lifestyle.
point 2) would you put your family in a warzone? I wouldn't. I would get them to a safe place as soon as possible.
A forummer expressed concerned about female family members getting raped. If the female members are not in the warzone, then they would not be there to be rape isn't it? So move the female members out of the warzone.
3) would you want your friends and relatives to be safe? the best way is to inform them to move out of harm's way.
So when people say they are defending singapore, what are they actually defending about?
Although i made the statement about the elites enjoying the GIC, Temasek funds without factual evidence (while peons die), can anybody point out to the contrary? give reasonable conjecture etc,
and can singaporeans overseas withdraw CPF funds from singapore embassies?
It's quite obvious you have no sense of belonging and you have no country to call your own. You might even have PR or citizenship in Singapore or other foreign countries but from the above, one can tell you are selfish and only care for your own well being....just like most traitors who might even betray his own family for one's own survivor.
I'm absolutely certain most if not all of my fellow Singaporeans will stay and fight for Singapore. We are born in Singapore, our family is in Singapore, our friends are in Singapore, our memories are in Singapore, we have benefited much from being born and raised in Singapore, our freedom....these are the reasons why we will stay and protect Singapore & it's sovereignty.
Again, you will not understand.....coz you probably feel you have never benefited from your birth country, in fact, you do not even feel wanted in your birth country and can't wait to get out.... quite sad actually. Then you have to become an economic refugee in a foreign land. And of coz, you will never be grateful to your adopted country coz you reasoned you have paid your dues/ taxes and also contributed to our adopted country so it's purely a fair trade. No loyalty, no sense of belonging. Again, very sad. Before long, you might move on to another country...trying once again to make new friends in a new land. The truth is, you will end up feeling lonely.....
Before you accuse me of making baseless assumptions, those were the exact feelings of many indos I spoke to. I'm sure you know of friends who fled places like Medan, Jakarta in 1998 ..... At least we are protecting our woman from being raped by foreigners if ever. My Indo associates were protecting their woman from being raped by fellow country man, some of them neighbors in the same village. You tell me how to live in such a country. Another reason why you wouldn't understand why we protect our country: you have never experience such freedom in your country.
Dude... you have a problem with LKY or PAP... that's fine, it's your right. No arguments.
But if you are a Singaporean and you agree with what this Indonesian fella Hopeful here is saying about not resisting an invasion and that it doesn't matter whether the Malayasians or Indonesians are our masters.... then I think you have a problem.
i choose to look at the message instead of the messenger. the fact that the messenger happens to be a non-sporean does not matter.
if you are invaded & conquered, does it matter whether the invaders are malaysans, indons, or aliens? is it more ok if the invaders are prc or americans or brits?
http://ihportfoliosam.weebly.com/uploads/1/2/7/9/12798369/277427937.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_i0TSOOL6JMw/TCNpCeSeIwI/AAAAAAAAAB0/Pf29qQq5NGY/s1600/adnan+.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pasir_Panjang
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDu4fwfqEKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Mcx1tdJ50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp2E6qnzgBM
i choose to look at the message instead of the messenger. the fact that the messenger happens to be a non-sporean does not matter.
if you are invaded & conquered, does it matter whether the invaders are malaysans, indons, or aliens? is it more ok if the invaders are prc or americans or brits?
The message comes from the heart of the messenger and thus you cannot separate the message from the messenger. In this instance, many of us Singaporeans like Logic, Jaykj, Minority etc question the motives of Hopeful and thus the heart of the messenger and the message.
Like 1 forumer said earlier, if he has not tasted freedom and gratitude to any country, least of all his birth country, how can he understand why we spend such amount on defense. And if he does not understand, who is he to lecture us that we should spend less on defense but more on health care. And who is he to even accuse wrongdoings in our defense spending :simmering:
I dare him to post all this accusations in Straits Times and Facebook in his own identity. Let the nation educate him why we spend so much on defense...for peace, not for war.
In fact, why don't he start with his birth country? If he has experienced peace and freedom, as a responsible citizen, he should yearn that such freedom and peace be spread to other parts of the world, starting from his home country so that we as human race can all experience peace and freedom. Until that day, maybe we can indeed eliminate defense spending altogether. Is it because he has no rights in his birth country and thus try to exercise those rights in ours? If that's the case, isn't he infringing on our tuff? And if he is a new citizen, which gives him rights to question the above, then he should publish his concerns in Straits Times or post on LSL facebook openly instead of being a keyboard warrior :p
August, if you are a Singaporean, a foreigner would already be gloating that he manage to turn a local against another. Be very careful who the enemy is and their hidden agenda and not let outsiders sow discord among Singaporeans.
It's quite obvious you have no sense of belonging and you have no country to call your own. You might even have PR or citizenship in Singapore or other foreign countries but from the above, one can tell you are selfish and only care for your own well being....just like most traitors who might even betray his own family for one's own survivor.
.......
what do you say about me ? i was born in 1923, so around 19 years when japanese invaded. was i underage to join the resistance?
i am pretty sure you all aware the kempeitai.
just like nazis, japanese view all others as sub-human races.
if i look at a japanese officer with an angry look in my eye, my head would be cut off.
now, what does it take to work with japanese during ww2?
capability, servility?
NO.
there will be "initiation" rites.
for eg, a certain gang require a new initiate to rape a white woman before he can be a gang member. african rebels require new initiates to eat human flesh. can't blame them, either you eat or you get shot.
what is the possible initiation rites for working for the japanese?
the japs would demand names, "give me the names of those who resist the japanese."
and i as a collaborator is well aware that the names i give out to the japanese would die.
does any sane person think for an untrusting agency like the kempeitai, i would not be asked to give out names for the 3 years i am working there.
how can i proof my loyalty to the jap if i am unwilling to betray my fellow men? and yet if i dont give any names, i would proof myself untrustworthy and disloyal to the japanese, i myself would be shot death and they would easily find another translator.
i have no problem singing 4 anthems, "God Save The King" when Singapore was a British colony; second, "Kimigayo", the Japanese national anthem during the Japanese occupation of Singapore; third, the Malaysian national anthem "Negaraku", when Singapore was part of Malaysia for two bitter years; fourth, Majulah Singapura, the national anthem of Singapore
and yet here I am, still alive and kicking. did i want to fight and die for the british master? do i want to fight and die for the japanese master? heck no.
but now do i want people to fight and die for me? heck yes.
so what kind of person am I?
u are nonsensical
oh right u can build and run a few nursing home with 20M... right..... docs no need to pay , ambulance no need to buy... land leh?
eh moron, i only said build nursing home. who talked about running?
if you can't read, go to school and learn instead of disgracing yourself repeatedly online
ok, i suggest everyone please take a chill pill. let us not embark on personal attacks. please keep in view that we are NOT talking about zero spending on defence, but merely lesser while channeling the savings to more immediate social concerns.
quoting from my earlier post,
"before the figures were up, we were going either "spend less on defence = NO defence", or "spend more on defence = increased state of security"
now the truth is out. can we transfer $0.02-0.05bil from the defence budget to healthcare budget? can we delay the purchase of two F16Ds and build more healthcare infrastructure to meet immediate population needs instead?"
The message comes from the heart of the messenger and thus you cannot separate the message from the messenger. In this instance, many of us Singaporeans like Logic, Jaykj, Minority etc question the motives of Hopeful and thus the heart of the messenger and the message.
Like 1 forumer said earlier, if he has not tasted freedom and gratitude to any country, least of all his birth country, how can he understand why we spend such amount on defense. And if he does not understand, who is he to lecture us that we should spend less on defense but more on health care. And who is he to even accuse wrongdoings in our defense spending :simmering:
I dare him to post all this accusations in Straits Times and Facebook in his own identity. Let the nation educate him why we spend so much on defense...for peace, not for war.
In fact, why don't he start with his birth country? If he has experienced peace and freedom, as a responsible citizen, he should yearn that such freedom and peace be spread to other parts of the world, starting from his home country so that we as human race can all experience peace and freedom. Until that day, maybe we can indeed eliminate defense spending altogether. Is it because he has no rights in his birth country and thus try to exercise those rights in ours? If that's the case, isn't he infringing on our tuff? And if he is a new citizen, which gives him rights to question the above, then he should publish his concerns in Straits Times or post on LSL facebook openly instead of being a keyboard warrior :p
August, if you are a Singaporean, a foreigner would already be gloating that he manage to turn a local against another. Be very careful who the enemy is and their hidden agenda and not let outsiders sow discord among Singaporeans.
it is normal to question the motive of the messenger. but the questions raised by the messenger are equally valid if not more important & should not be ignored.
yes becareful who the enemy is, especially those at the top who seek to play the nationality card to further their own agenda at the expense of their own people.
Other than minority..... l don't think anyone else disagrees that money spent on defence perhaps could be better spent on other areas... eg healthcare. The amount of course is debatable, the areas to be cut is also debatable.
However, there are elements in the internet that wants to subvert this topic from one of anti-policy to one of anti-Singapore. It is subtle.... they feed on ignorance and discontent with government.
Slowly the tone of their postings change.... now we are to believe defence is useless, we might as well be invaded, don't put up any resistance... otherwise we will be treated worse under our new masters, the fiercer our resistance the worse our treatment. There is further insinuation that our founding leader is a traitor.... therefore it is alright to submit to invaders...
You see... feeble minded Singaporeans (like August) who read little real history books and rely on heavily on the internet for information are easily brainwashed... they cannot distinguish fact from fiction... yet they think they are very smart and know it all... that's where the danger lies...
Very sad indeed.
ok, i suggest everyone please take a chill pill. let us not embark on personal attacks. please keep in view that we are NOT talking about zero spending on defence, but merely lesser while channeling the savings to more immediate social concerns.
quoting from my earlier post,
"before the figures were up, we were going either "spend less on defence = NO defence", or "spend more on defence = increased state of security"
now the truth is out. can we transfer $0.02-0.05bil from the defence budget to healthcare budget? can we delay the purchase of two F16Ds and build more healthcare infrastructure to meet immediate population needs instead?"
eh moron, i only said build nursing home. who talked about running?
if you can't read, go to school and learn instead of disgracing yourself repeatedly online
LOL u really prata king. Flip left flip right. On moment say wats 0.02M to use for to open nursing home next say who talk abt running it.
Get a brain n make up ur mind. U are like a village clown jumping up n down running ard crazy screaming nonsense shit.
Before u scream n scream get a brain n think 1st then get a pair of eyes too look ard.
U are just plain stupid n blind.
Other than minority..... l don't think anyone else disagrees that money spent on defence perhaps could be better spent on other areas... eg healthcare. The amount of course is debatable, the areas to be cut is also debatable.
However, there are elements in the internet that wants to subvert this topic from one of anti-policy to one of anti-Singapore. It is subtle.... they feed on ignorance and discontent with government.
Slowly the tone of their postings change.... now we are to believe defence is useless, we might as well be invaded, don't put up any resistance... otherwise we will be treated worse under our new masters, the fiercer our resistance the worse our treatment. There is further insinuation that our founding leader is a traitor.... therefore it is alright to submit to invaders...
You see... feeble minded Singaporeans (like August) who read little real history books and rely on heavily on the internet for information are easily brainwashed... they cannot distinguish fact from fiction... yet they think they are very smart and know it all... that's where the danger lies...
Very sad indeed.
most people find the hard truth uncomfortable, and hence either chose to shut down their critical thinking ability, descend into cognitive dissonance, or feign ignorance as ignorance is bliss.
but i agree with u perhaps we have gone a little off topic.
LOL u really prata king. Flip left flip right. On moment say wats 0.02M to use for to open nursing home next say who talk abt running it.
Get a brain n make up ur mind. U are like a village clown jumping up n down running ard crazy screaming nonsense shit.
Before u scream n scream get a brain n think 1st then get a pair of eyes too look ard.
U are just plain stupid n blind.
scroll up and read. firstly, it's 0.02-0.05BIL, stupid. secondly, i have specifically stated we can 'build nursing homes'.
my statements are all online. freaking moron.
let me give you another personlized quote
"Stupidity knows no bounds till it mets its worst enemy - Minority", Sir A.W.
This is called the facilitation process.
Hopeful has caerfully written a piece that has pinches of truth and fistfuls of speculation and conjecture. By meshing this together the whole piece appears credible. At the same time he is also slightly fearful that this thread is being watched and he doesn't want to get into trouble for spreading half-truths.
He has left out names and asked rhetorical questions for the reader to "come to his own conclusion". An idiotic reader (without realising he is being led by the nose) comes to Hopeful's conclusion instead.
But the reader thinks he is smart and independant.... how sad.
what do you say about me ? i was born in 1923, so around 19 years when japanese invaded. was i underage to join the resistance?
i am pretty sure you all aware the kempeitai.
just like nazis, japanese view all others as sub-human races.
if i look at a japanese officer with an angry look in my eye, my head would be cut off.
now, what does it take to work with japanese during ww2?
capability, servility?
NO.
there will be "initiation" rites.
for eg, a certain gang require a new initiate to rape a white woman before he can be a gang member. african rebels require new initiates to eat human flesh. can't blame them, either you eat or you get shot.
what is the possible initiation rites for working for the japanese?
the japs would demand names, "give me the names of those who resist the japanese."
and i as a collaborator is well aware that the names i give out to the japanese would die.
does any sane person think for an untrusting agency like the kempeitai, i would not be asked to give out names for the 3 years i am working there.
how can i proof my loyalty to the jap if i am unwilling to betray my fellow men? and yet if i dont give any names, i would proof myself untrustworthy and disloyal to the japanese, i myself would be shot death and they would easily find another translator.
i have no problem singing 4 anthems, "God Save The King" when Singapore was a British colony; second, "Kimigayo", the Japanese national anthem during the Japanese occupation of Singapore; third, the Malaysian national anthem "Negaraku", when Singapore was part of Malaysia for two bitter years; fourth, Majulah Singapura, the national anthem of Singapore
and yet here I am, still alive and kicking. did i want to fight and die for the british master? do i want to fight and die for the japanese master? heck no.
but now do i want people to fight and die for me? heck yes.
so what kind of person am I?
ok, i suggest everyone please take a chill pill. let us not embark on personal attacks. please keep in view that we are NOT talking about zero spending on defence, but merely lesser while channeling the savings to more immediate social concerns.
quoting from my earlier post,
"before the figures were up, we were going either "spend less on defence = NO defence", or "spend more on defence = increased state of security"
now the truth is out. can we transfer $0.02-0.05bil from the defence budget to healthcare budget? can we delay the purchase of two F16Ds and build more healthcare infrastructure to meet immediate population needs instead?"
Why must compromise on defense? Divert abit!? Next will be divert more? Then later must well dont spend on it? Health care? Get the people to accept nursing home on their estate 1st all this NIBS issue are all selfish people. $ to build nursing home? Take from taxes why must touch defends budget! I seriously doubt ur intellect n intention of using those propaganda blog post to stir shit.
Other than minority..... l don't think anyone else disagrees that money spent on defence perhaps could be better spent on other areas... eg healthcare. The amount of course is debatable, the areas to be cut is also debatable.
However, there are elements in the internet that wants to subvert this topic from one of anti-policy to one of anti-Singapore. It is subtle.... they feed on ignorance and discontent with government.
Slowly the tone of their postings change.... now we are to believe defence is useless, we might as well be invaded, don't put up any resistance... otherwise we will be treated worse under our new masters, the fiercer our resistance the worse our treatment. There is further insinuation that our founding leader is a traitor.... therefore it is alright to submit to invaders...
You see... feeble minded Singaporeans (like August) who read little real history books and rely on heavily on the internet for information are easily brainwashed... they cannot distinguish fact from fiction... yet they think they are very smart and know it all... that's where the danger lies...
Very sad indeed.
thanks for being clear headed. we need more of such to maintain a meaningful debate.
however, don't you think that the SG govt is using the same tactics too? when the same motion is raised, they (or specifically Generalissmo KeeChiu) state that Singapore would be wiped out or invaded. the inability to listen to alternative views or hold no cows as too sacred for slaughter, is what is eroding public confidence in the government.
it is normal to question the motive of the messenger. but the questions raised by the messenger are equally valid if not more important & should not be ignored.
yes becareful who the enemy is, especially those at the top who seek to play the nationality card to further their own agenda at the expense of their own people.
Yeah right u are those bs Tock cock rumour mongering trying to drive a wedge between the people n goverment. Only when we work together we can achieve more . Divided we fail. I doubt ur intention of rumour mongering .
Why must compromise on defense? Divert abit!? Next will be divert more? Then later must well dont spend on it? Health care? Get the people to accept nursing home on their estate 1st all this NIBS issue are all selfish people. $ to build nursing home? Take from taxes why must touch defends budget! I seriously doubt ur intellect n intention of using those propaganda blog post to stir shit.
before i even bother to rubbish this, please tell us the amount of surplus that Singapore had in FY2012.
as if national budget is not debated and approved by MoF and PM :doh: :doh:
what do you say about me ? i was born in 1923, so around 19 years when japanese invaded. was i underage to join the resistance?
i am pretty sure you all aware the kempeitai.
just like nazis, japanese view all others as sub-human races.
if i look at a japanese officer with an angry look in my eye, my head would be cut off.
now, what does it take to work with japanese during ww2?
capability, servility?
NO.
there will be "initiation" rites.
for eg, a certain gang require a new initiate to rape a white woman before he can be a gang member. african rebels require new initiates to eat human flesh. can't blame them, either you eat or you get shot.
what is the possible initiation rites for working for the japanese?
the japs would demand names, "give me the names of those who resist the japanese."
and i as a collaborator is well aware that the names i give out to the japanese would die.
does any sane person think for an untrusting agency like the kempeitai, i would not be asked to give out names for the 3 years i am working there.
how can i proof my loyalty to the jap if i am unwilling to betray my fellow men? and yet if i dont give any names, i would proof myself untrustworthy and disloyal to the japanese, i myself would be shot death and they would easily find another translator.
i have no problem singing 4 anthems, "God Save The King" when Singapore was a British colony; second, "Kimigayo", the Japanese national anthem during the Japanese occupation of Singapore; third, the Malaysian national anthem "Negaraku", when Singapore was part of Malaysia for two bitter years; fourth, Majulah Singapura, the national anthem of Singapore
and yet here I am, still alive and kicking. did i want to fight and die for the british master? do i want to fight and die for the japanese master? heck no.
but now do i want people to fight and die for me? heck yes.
so what kind of person am I?
You are a selfish person, one who self no master except yourself. Or are you playing the `devil's advocate' all along ..... or worst drawing out.....:rolleyes:
I think enough said, defence is important and discussion to reduce is moot. Lets stop here.
You are a selfish person, one who self no master except yourself. Or are you playing the `devil's advocate' all along ..... or worst drawing out.....:rolleyes:
I think enough said, defence is important and discussion to reduce is moot. Lets stop here.
Alamak. You've fallen into his trap .
Hopeful is not born in 1923. The whole passage is not about himself.
You are a selfish person, one who self no master except yourself. Or are you playing the `devil's advocate' all along ..... or worst drawing out.....:rolleyes:
I think enough said, defence is important and discussion to reduce is moot. Lets stop here.
Office Boy also agree that defence is important.
The main point is we DO NOT need to cut any expense to increase healthcare expenditure.
We are a VERY RICH nation. Each year, we keep surplus surplus surplus, but did we ever think whats the surplus for ?
We surplus until the old who sacrificed for the nation die already, still trying to accumulate surplus, just dont want to spend. I say ... take out 1-2B to help the poor and reduce healthcare costs for CITIZENs la ..
Tax the foreigners coming here to get top class healthcare - just make a visit to Mt E or Paragon Medical you will see thousands of them everyday!
That's all I have to contribute ...
All the Best!
DKSG
Office Boy also agree that defence is important.
The main point is we DO NOT need to cut any expense to increase healthcare expenditure.
We are a VERY RICH nation. Each year, we keep surplus surplus surplus, but did we ever think whats the surplus for ?
We surplus until the old who sacrificed for the nation die already, still trying to accumulate surplus, just dont want to spend. I say ... take out 1-2B to help the poor and reduce healthcare costs for CITIZENs la ..
Tax the foreigners coming here to get top class healthcare - just make a visit to Mt E or Paragon Medical you will see thousands of them everyday!
That's all I have to contribute ...
All the Best!
DKSG
sigh.......me think this alternative works too, except garmen keep threatening me that surplus no enough leh. at the back of my mind, $300Bn in a year also considered not enough??
siao liao, GIC and Temasek must be burning up lots of my CPF.
......
You see... feeble minded Singaporeans (like August) who read little real history books and rely on heavily on the internet for information are easily brainwashed... they cannot distinguish fact from fiction... yet they think they are very smart and know it all... that's where the danger lies...
....
can you recommend some real history books? i presume you have read them, analyse them, that's why you dare to criticise the feeble minded for being easy brainwashed.
or perhaps, you will tell me to find it myself in the nlb?
afterall, we are what we read.:)
hmmm, if defence is so important, why not allocate more to defence then?
why aren't anybody here clamouring for a higher defence budgets?
some of the ways to allocate more to
1) cut more from other sectors, eg like healthcare, transport to give to defense.
2) tax more to give to defense.
3) take out reserves to pay for defense.
why when govt say budget enough for defense, people here accepted it as the right amount?
instead of 12 F-35, why are people here not clamouring for another 24 F-35 planes and they are willing to pay higher taxes for defense?
the thing is government say $5 billion defense budget enough, people accept. government say $10 billion defense budget enough, people also accept.
if government has already allocated more to healthcare and lesser to defence budget, people here also accept.
yet, when private individuals propose to reduce defence budget, and to increase the healthcare, they received brickbats.
the thing i find humorous is people's near-blind acceptance in the government's decisions.
Perhaps as 1 forummer has mentioned, thinking is hard, better to go about daily routine. or they make excuses that budget allocations is a delicate balancing act. better to leave it to the experts.
and from the responses i received, i think it is clear that nationalism is a very easy card for ANY government to play.
i mentioned i am foreigner, immediately people questioned my motives.
if i had mentioned i am a true-blue singaporean who served NS and is a commando like minority etc, what would be those people's responses? perhaps they may say i am a traitor, not worthy to be a singapore son :rolleyes:
the us against them mentality.
it's sure is an easy card for the masters to play with, isnt it.
and yet the ones who dies are the peons, not the masters.
btw, dont listen to what the masters say, see what they do and do as they does. as for myself, i am going to follow my country's founding father actions during ww2. and each one of us here will do as we see fit to protect our loved ones.
Yeah right u are those bs Tock cock rumour mongering trying to drive a wedge between the people n goverment. Only when we work together we can achieve more . Divided we fail. I doubt ur intention of rumour mongering .
when i am the leader in power, naturally i will be exhorting those under me to repeat mantras like "Only when we work together we can achieve more. Divided we fail" and so on, especially when i as leader stands to gain the most by others toiling and shedding blood for me. And anyone who exhibits dissent, which is to my detriment, i will accuse them of "bs Tock cock rumour mongering trying to drive a wedge between the people n goverment". hahaha
when i am the leader in power, naturally i will be exhorting those under me to repeat mantras like "Only when we work together we can achieve more. Divided we fail" and so on, especially when i as leader stands to gain the most by others toiling and shedding blood for me. And anyone who exhibits dissent, which is to my detriment, i will accuse them of "bs Tock cock rumour mongering trying to drive a wedge between the people n goverment". hahaha
by the way, this is how CHC managed to garner ardent supporters, even with revelations that there may be plausible financial fraud and integrity issues.
p.s. i used to be from the 'dark side' too
......There is further insinuation that our founding leader is a traitor.... therefore it is alright to submit to invaders...
You see... feeble minded Singaporeans (like August) who read little real history books and rely on heavily on the internet for information are easily brainwashed... they cannot distinguish fact from fiction... yet they think they are very smart and know it all... that's where the danger lies...
.......
Just to add on:
the thing is i am interested in what the real history books have to say about the kempeitai.
from all accounts (from the internet, from secondary school textbooks), kempeitai was said to be quite fearsome. they would use torture on peace loving natives :scared-3: just because they dont like the way the natives look at them. :scared-3::scared-3:. dispense justice without trial (oot: a little bit like our ISA perhaps?).
Maybe the internet accounts are wrong.
Perhap the real history books would tell us kempeitai is a charity volunteer organisation.
instead of shedding blood, kempeitai members donate their own blood.
instead of ripping foetus out of the womb, kempeitai members help to deliver babies.
instead of shooting natives in the head, kempeitai members would act as body shields for the natives.
instead of waterboarding the natives, kempeitai members provide water for the thirsty natives.
working under the kempeitai would be like a walk in the park. you have lunch break, tea break, and even transport provided.
what is life working under (not for) the kempeitai?
if kempeitai is like the secret police around the world, and if it believes in collective punishment (collective punishment is : if your neighbour do wrong, you also kena punished, one way to avoid punishment is to report your neighbour). especially if the chineses are view as troublesome sub-human race.
what does it take to earn the trust of kempeitai?
what does it take to deflect suspicions from the kempeitai?
perhaps the real history books will tell us.
logic, i am waiting with baited breath for the real history books to be revealed.
Alamak. You've fallen into his trap .
Hopeful is not born in 1923. The whole passage is not about himself.
Before people get misled by Hopeful post.
Older generation like me have the greatest respect for LKY and I believe I'm not alone.
In a 乱世，the most important thing is look at your own capability and see what you can do and how to protect your own family members. 留得青山在不怕没柴烧。Japanese are ruthless during WWII. One wrong move & you're died meat.
And mind you, he also live in fear of during the Japanese rule. Read this
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~dremer/sm%20lee.htm
One late leader ever mentioned that there are mainly 3 types of people in this world. 好人, 坏人, 小人
好人 - You don't have to worry about them because everybody know they are harmless
坏人 - Not good for the society but you can identify and avoid them easily
小人 - This is the most scary one. He appears to be nice to you but has a hidden agenda and will stab you behind your back.
Hopefully no forumer is 小人
Before people get misled by Hopeful post.
Older generation like me have the greatest respect for LKY and I believe I'm not alone.
In a 乱世，the most important thing is look at your own capability and see what you can do and how to protect your own family members. 留得青山在不怕没柴烧。Japanese are ruthless during WWII. One wrong move & you're died meat.
you hurt me deep, me misleading people?
i have utmost respect for lky.
that's why i urge everybody to follow his example. do as the leader does.
if the next "japanese" comes, you can become a translator.
if not good at languages, well you can become a garderner for the next. "japanese".
if not good at gardening, well you can become a cook.
if cannot cook, well then can become laborer.
there are so many career options if the next "japanese" comes, it is not the end of the world.
just dont make the wrong career choice like become a "terrorist" to the next"japanese".
you hurt me deep, me misleading people?
i have utmost respect for lky.
that's why i urge everybody to follow his example. do as the leader does.
if the next "japanese" comes, you can become a translator.
if not good at languages, well you can become a garderner for the next. "japanese".
if not good at gardening, well you can become a cook.
if cannot cook, well then can become laborer.
there are so many career options if the next "japanese" comes, it is not the end of the world.
just dont make the wrong career choice like become a "terrorist" to the next"japanese".
Aiya. 天啊..............
难道这都是一场误会 ？是我以小人之心度君子之腹了？我是那个小人？:rolleyes:
My late mom ever told me that my father worked as a coolie (苦力）during the Japanese occupation. Depending on he mood of the Japanese soldier, if he see you 不爽，you'll get a slap on the face for no reason. And when they slap, there is no warning one and they don't aim nicely on the cheek one hor. The slap may land on your ear, your mouth or anywhere on the head. As a result, my dad's left ear hearing wasn't very good due to those slapping.
Being alive and have food just enough to fill the stomach is a luxury during that time.
Before people get misled by Hopeful post.
Older generation like me have the greatest respect for LKY and I believe I'm not alone.
In a 乱世，the most important thing is look at your own capability and see what you can do and how to protect your own family members. 留得青山在不怕没柴烧。Japanese are ruthless during WWII. One wrong move & you're died meat.
And mind you, he also live in fear of during the Japanese rule. Read this
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~dremer/sm%20lee.htm
while there are collaborators and some who chose to make things easier for themselves by working for the Jap invaders, there are many many more who refused to have anything to do with the invaders. Times of turmoil & strife will reveal a person's true character, not the chest thumping rhetoric spoken during peace times.
Before people get misled by Hopeful post.
Older generation like me have the greatest respect for LKY and I believe I'm not alone.
In a 乱世，the most important thing is look at your own capability and see what you can do and how to protect your own family members. 留得青山在不怕没柴烧。Japanese are ruthless during WWII. One wrong move & you're died meat.
And mind you, he also live in fear of during the Japanese rule. Read this
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~dremer/sm%20lee.htm
I might not be the old. I do respect the efforts that hav taken to get us so far. its not a small feat.
when i am the leader in power, naturally i will be exhorting those under me to repeat mantras like "Only when we work together we can achieve more. Divided we fail" and so on, especially when i as leader stands to gain the most by others toiling and shedding blood for me. And anyone who exhibits dissent, which is to my detriment, i will accuse them of "bs Tock cock rumour mongering trying to drive a wedge between the people n goverment". hahaha
so becoz u are not in power everything that is are BS and a conspiracy. LOL
My late mom ever told me that my father worked as a coolie (苦力）during the Japanese occupation. Depending on he mood of the Japanese soldier, if he see you 不爽，you'll get a slap on the face for no reason. And when they slap, there is no warning one and they don't aim nicely on the cheek one hor. The slap may land on your ear, your mouth or anywhere on the head. As a result, my dad's left ear hearing wasn't very good due to those slapping.
Being alive and have food just enough to fill the stomach is a luxury during that time.
Interesting. These days people also like to sell the I slap u to keep u awake story. and a lot of folks are lapping it up.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijnaf.htm
GOD save the Queen.
During the 1920s, as a consequence of its military treaty with Great Britain, Japan received a naval aviation delegation from the Royal Navy. The Britsih delegates made recommendations for the establishment of a well-organized Imperial Japanese Navy Air Force and even helped to train some of its officers.
http://www.combatreform.org/midwaymyth.htm
Singapore benefits from a stable and prosperous Southeast Asia. We enjoy good relations with our neighbours. We are cooperating with Malaysia on Iskandar Malaysia – a special development zone in Southern Malaysia that is larger than Singapore. Iskandar and Singapore can be like New Jersey and Manhattan. We are also planning a High*Speed Rail link from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore, which are as close together as DC and New York. Our relations with Indonesia are similarly warm. Singapore is Indonesia’s largest foreign investor, despite our small size, while Indonesia is our biggest source of tourists.
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/US%20ABAC%20Speech%20Final.pdf
to add some more perspective into the thread of debate, 12 planes = 1 year's worth of national healthcare budget
"In the recent parliamentary sitting, Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen told the Parliament, “For the longer term, the Republic of Singapore Air Force has identified the F-35 as a suitable aircraft to further modernise our fighter fleet.”
He said, “The F-35 will be the vanguard of next-generation fighter aircraft in operation.”
He further added, “We are now in the final stages of evaluating the F-35.”
AOL Defense even reported that Singapore will be ordering 12 F-35Bs soon (‘S’pore soon to order 12 F-35Bs costing total S$3.5B (http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/03/28/spore-soon-to-order-12-f-35bs-costing-total-s3-5b/)‘). And according to information on Wikipedia [Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II)], the unit price of a F-35B, which is the short take-off and vertical-landing (STOVL) variant, is about US$240 million a piece. If Singapore really goes ahead to place order for the 12 F-35Bs, it will cost Singapore a total of US$2.8 billion or S$3.5 billion"
Lets compare
Malaysia
Combat aircraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Royal_Malaysian_Air_Force
Total 62 Combat fighters
Singapore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Singapore_Air_Force
Total 70 Combat fighters
Indonesia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_Air_Force
Total 150 Combat fighters
Taiwan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_Air_Force
Total 359 Combat Fighters.
Vietnam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_People's_Air_Force
Total 323 Combat fighters
Thailand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Air_Force
Total 144 Combat Fighters
So we alot meh? to stand up to defend at least must be on par. Air superiority has always been the key pillar in all warfare. Min we must be able to defend ourself.
Korea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Korea_Air_Force
Total 468 Combat Fighters
Republic of China
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army_Air_Force
Total 1144 Combat fighters
Philippines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Air_Force
Total 289 Combat Fighters
Lets compare
Malaysia
Combat aircraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Royal_Malaysian_Air_Force
Total 62 Combat fighters
Singapore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Singapore_Air_Force
Total 70 Combat fighters
Indonesia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_Air_Force
Total 150 Combat fighters
Taiwan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_Air_Force
Total 359 Combat Fighters.
Vietnam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_People's_Air_Force
Total 323 Combat fighters
Thailand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Air_Force
Total 144 Combat Fighters
So we alot meh? to stand up to defend at least must be on par. Air superiority has always been the key pillar in all warfare. Min we must be able to defend ourself.
WAHAHAHAHA, eh u don't really know how to read into the details
Counting modern combat planes
SG: 98
MY: 36
IN: 20
If you really think a BAE Hawk can outgun a F16D or F15, then i've got nothing more to say about what goes up in your airtunnel
WAHAHAHAHA, eh u don't really know how to read into the details
Counting modern combat planes
SG: 98
MY: 36
IN: 20
If you really think a BAE Hawk can outgun a F16D or F15, then i've got nothing more to say about what goes up in your airtunnel
up to u how u like to read it . fighters are fighters. thus we need to pack a punch as deterrent.
up to u how u like to read it . fighters are fighters. thus we need to pack a punch as deterrent.
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, kenna slap by your own stunt. wonder how it feels
using your analogy, perhaps we should buy 300 F5s and A4 Hawks, instead of 12 F35s.
fighters are fighters, WAHAHAHAHAHAHA
maybe many forget.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze
"began in October 1944, followed several critical military defeats for the Japanese. They had long lost aerial dominance due to outdated aircraft and the loss of experienced pilots.
"
" these factors led to the use of kamikaze tactics as Allied forces
"
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Health/images-2/kamikaze.jpg
u dont need super modern planes to cause damage .
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, kenna slap by your own stunt. wonder how it feels
using your analogy, perhaps we should buy 300 F5s and A4 Hawks, instead of 12 F35s.
fighters are fighters, WAHAHAHAHAHAHA
talk cock sing song prata man.:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
maybe many forget.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Health/images-2/kamikaze.jpg
u dont need super modern planes to cause damage .
WAHAHAHA, now kamikaze is an option. then we should buy 10000 zero fighters instead.
moron, kamikaze was the last desperate option that the japs had. and once executed, it caused irreversible loss to their own airforce - loss of pilot and craft, and ceded even further air advantage to USAF
third joke of the day, thanks
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
maybe many forget.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze
u dont need super modern planes to cause damage .
why need to buy modern planes?
i would buy plenty of cheap artillerty guns, mlrs and a few sam to defend.
no need to fly can bombard singapore from johor or batam.
if hamas & hizbollah have thousands of rockets. i supposed state actors can afford tens of thousands of rockets.
imo, singapore airplane for pre-emptive strikes and/or to fly to kl, jakarta.
but what do i know, i am only a commando, just like minority. the top brass never tell the ka-kias anything.
why need to buy modern planes?
i would buy plenty of cheap artillerty guns, mlrs and a few sam to defend.
no need to fly can bombard singapore from johor or batam.
if hamas & hizbollah have thousands of rockets. i supposed state actors can afford tens of thousands of rockets.
imo, singapore airplane for pre-emptive strikes and/or to fly to kl, jakarta.
but what do i know, i am only a commando, just like minority. the top brass never tell the ka-kias anything.
good I give u a water pistol to go fight. Here u go. u can go wet urself with it.
http://www.nashvillescene.com/binary/a585/waterpistol.jpg
WAHAHAHA, now kamikaze is an option. then we should buy 10000 zero fighters instead.
moron, kamikaze was the last desperate option that the japs had. and once executed, it caused irreversible loss to their own airforce - loss of pilot and craft, and ceded even further air advantage to USAF
third joke of the day, thanks
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Desperate. u mean our aggressor wont get desperate on us?
u are wat a desperately low intellect we have. Is all I can say.
good I give u a water pistol to go fight. Here u go. u can go wet urself with it.
i am quite slow, your point being?
btw, i like your signature
“Time after time, history demonstrates that when people don't want to believe something, they have enormous skills of ignoring it altogether.”
― Jim Butcher, Dead Beat
WAHAHAHAHA, eh u don't really know how to read into the details
Counting modern combat planes
SG: 98
MY: 36
IN: 20
If you really think a BAE Hawk can outgun a F16D or F15, then i've got nothing more to say about what goes up in your airtunnel
So funny actually looking at ur analogy. It again proof my point. Thank you. We need maintain air superiority a engagement ratio of 3:1.
Thus we pack a punch and this will deter any aggression to think abt mucking with us.
i am quite slow, your point being?
btw, i like your signature
“Time after time, history demonstrates that when people don't want to believe something, they have enormous skills of ignoring it altogether.”
― Jim Butcher, Dead Beat
My point being we use technology to make up the lack of sheer volume either in people or equipment.
u talk abt low end equipment. So I give u a water pistol. to go fight can a not? its a gun too right.?
in other words we need to increase productivity ;)
My point being we use technology to make up the lack of sheer volume either in people or equipment.
u talk abt low end equipment. So I give u a water pistol. to go fight can a not? its a gun too right.?
in other words we need to increase productivity ;)
so how much does a airplane and a gun cost? airplane and gun just being delivery systems. the ones that does damage are the missiles,bombs and shells.
based on your analogy, how does water caused damage?
can a large water cannon shoot from johor or batam?
i agree water can cause damage, eg water jet cutter, but it is effective only for a very very short distance.
since malaysia and indonesia are peace loving nations, they dont need to project their firepower very far, hence they have few airplanes.
either that since they are poor countries, they can only afford a few airplanes.
but i really dont see how singapore planes can defend against rockets and artillery shells?
and in my earlier post, how come you are not clamouring for a much higher defense budget since defense is obviously so important.
i apologized for my lack of intelligence and being dimwitted, my head has been knocked about too many times serving Singapore.
again reiterate its deterrence. Like u buy insurance. u dont wish to claim it. but its call insurance. right. u need it to defer risk.
again reiterate its deterrence. Like u buy insurance. u dont wish to claim it. but its call insurance. right. u need it to defer risk.
the thing i don't exactly see how it is a deterrence?
and speaking of deterrence, wouldn't having more weapons ie higher defence budget be even more of a deterrence.
During my kopi sessions, they think the defence budget is just right. they didnt demand for more deterrence. i am the only one who wants more planes, more submarines, and even acquire fissile materials. heck our reserves can afford all that, and yes i am ready to pay higher taxes.
which leads me to wonder, are my kopi kakis really patriots or what?
ps. i am a true believer of the samson option.
So funny actually looking at ur analogy. It again proof my point. Thank you. We need maintain air superiority a engagement ratio of 3:1.
Thus we pack a punch and this will deter any aggression to think abt mucking with us.
Quoting Minor Airhead "So we alot meh? to stand up to defend at least must be on par. Air superiority has always been the key pillar in all warfare. Min we must be able to defend ourself."
one hand you claim we don't have enough (so that's why buying the 12 F35s is probably justified) and after being exposed, now you say we have overwhelming superiority.
one very, very important rule of debate: never use a lie or a bad example to cover up your BS, it just snowballs
My point being we use technology to make up the lack of sheer volume either in people or equipment.
u talk abt low end equipment. So I give u a water pistol. to go fight can a not? its a gun too right.?
in other words we need to increase productivity ;)
and in your thread, you calculated we outnumber our neighbour's airforce combat 3:1.
now you claim we use tech to make up for our lack of volume ????? :banghead: :banghead:
again reiterate its deterrence. Like u buy insurance. u dont wish to claim it. but its call insurance. right. u need it to defer risk.
nuclear is the best deterrence, so let's get it to defer risk??
PFFFFTTT!! what a load of rubbish!!! never heard of escalating arms race?
Quoting Minor Airhead "So we alot meh? to stand up to defend at least must be on par. Air superiority has always been the key pillar in all warfare. Min we must be able to defend ourself."
one hand you claim we don't have enough (so that's why buying the 12 F35s is probably justified) and after being exposed, now you say we have overwhelming superiority.
one very, very important rule of debate: never use a lie or a bad example to cover up your BS, it just snowballs
u really tock cock water in the brain. skull so thick brian so small. ear deaf eyes blind.
1. I already say are our planes a lot meh? I dont think its a lot.
2. your thick head cannot understand bring our the old plane new plane. regardless old or new they are fighters planes. with larger no. still are superior.
3. I point to the japan kamakazi as a example u don't need superior planes to cause destruction. Old planes in large numbers can also cause damage.
4. Taking ur anal logy of new plane only ration. even u want to anal ur logy. sure. we still justified to have that number or new planes. why? coz 3:1 air superiority. maybe u never sit in a plane b4. never fly 1 most likly. In a Dog fight 3:1 is a superiority advantage. maybe u still stupid don't understand. 1/3 is 33% only win chance ok.. a hiao bo.
stupid people have really limited ability to understand anything.
nuclear is the best deterrence, so let's get it to defer risk??
PFFFFTTT!! what a load of rubbish!!! never heard of escalating arms race?
u are really stupid. :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
insurance is a derered risk u buy every single one to the max? wat dumb ass are u? must be shit for brains.
and in your thread, you calculated we outnumber our neighbour's airforce combat 3:1.
now you claim we use tech to make up for our lack of volume ????? :banghead: :banghead:
goon doo. u want to count new plane? sure 3:1 . 3 modern plane verse 1 enemy modern plane.
shit for brian prata man. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDv8NxGv9Yg
the samson option is very attractive to me.
even though we fought very hard and still we lose, enemy forces occupied singapore, i worried about what will happened to the women folk and children.
Our women will be raped and children be raped too, then they will be enslaved.
To spare the menfolk and womenfolk the indignity, the dishonor heaped upon us, the samson option is very attractive to me. DEATH BEFORE DISHONOUR !!!
I think my kopi kakis patriot in name only, they complain gst, they complain income tax, they complain this and that and they only think about property, stocks, bonds prices and how much profit they can make. I dont mind higher transport fares, higher gst, higher COEs etc. all this for a much better deterrent. What better deterrent can there be is singapore has nukes and a MAD policy.
now i know why the singapore keep many bases around the world. not to defend singapore per se, (they are too far away to do any help), but to maintain the capability of second strike on the enemy's capital.
if you dont support nuclear deterrent, then you surely want your womenfolk and children to be raped.
btw, Logic where are you? I am still waiting your recommendations for REAL HISTORY BOOKS. hopefully NLB has them. if NLB dont have, then perhaps Amazon or Google Books has them.
you dont recommend because you want to keep me ignorant is it, want me to find out wrong info on net. Why u so like dat.:beats-me-man:
:D
I also think that we should cut some defense budget and also transfer some of the funds for healthcare.
We spent way too much than Malaysia, Indonesia & Philippines in absolute monetary value in defense. They are such as a big country and have much biggest LAND to protect and also to deter attacks than a small little dot and yet they spent lesser/much lesser than us.
Here is the data for all you see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
SIPRI military expenditure database
Rank Country Spending ($)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures#cite_note-4) % of GDP Per capita
23 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Flag_of_Singapore.svg/33px-Flag_of_Singapore.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore) Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Armed_Forces) 8,302,000,000 3.7% 1,593
28 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Flag_of_Indonesia.svg/33px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia) Indonesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Indonesia) 5,220,000,000 0.7%
47 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Flag_of_Malaysia.svg/33px-Flag_of_Malaysia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia) Malaysia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Malaysia) 3,259,000,000 2.0% 0.8%
59 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Flag_of_the_Philippines.svg/33px-Flag_of_the_Philippines.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines) Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_of_the_Philippines) 1,486,000,000 0.8%
btw, Logic where are you? I am still waiting your recommendations for REAL HISTORY BOOKS. hopefully NLB has them. if NLB dont have, then perhaps Amazon or Google Books has them.
you dont recommend because you want to keep me ignorant is it, want me to find out wrong info on net. Why u so like dat.:beats-me-man:
I suggest raise income tax to at least 40% to fund health care then. if everyone so desperadoes need to get it funded.
We are too lowly taxed. compare to all the so call developed countries then. since we want to have the perks like them lets get taxed liked them.
USA 39.65%
France 75%
Australia 45%
Denmark 59.5%
Spain 52%
Belgium 50%
Norway 47%
Austria 45%
South Korea 38%
Canada 54%
even china no perks already 45%
China 45%
:D
I also think that we should cut some defense budget and also transfer some of the funds for healthcare.
We spent way too much than Malaysia, Indonesia & Philippines in absolute monetary value in defense. They are such as a big country and have much biggest LAND to protect and also to deter attacks than a small little dot and yet they spent lesser/much lesser than us.
Here is the data for all you see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
SIPRI military expenditure database
Rank Country Spending ($)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures#cite_note-4) % of GDP Per capita
23 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Flag_of_Singapore.svg/33px-Flag_of_Singapore.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore) Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Armed_Forces) 8,302,000,000 3.7% 1,593
28 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Flag_of_Indonesia.svg/33px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia) Indonesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Indonesia) 5,220,000,000 0.7%
47 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Flag_of_Malaysia.svg/33px-Flag_of_Malaysia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia) Malaysia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Malaysia) 3,259,000,000 2.0% 0.8%
59 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Flag_of_the_Philippines.svg/33px-Flag_of_the_Philippines.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines) Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_of_the_Philippines) 1,486,000,000 0.8%
u r comparison is so flawed. per capital GDP? population size are not considered? larger population sized countries even the per capital is low 1% there is more than 1% of Singapore.
I suggest raise income tax to at least 40% to fund health care then. if everyone so desperadoes need to get it funded.
We are too lowly taxed. compare to all the so call developed countries then. since we want to have the perks like them lets get taxed liked them.
USA 39.65%
France 75%
Australia 45%
Denmark 59.5%
Spain 52%
Belgium 50%
Norway 47%
Austria 45%
South Korea 38%
Canada 54%
even china no perks already 45%
China 45%
I am all for raising income tax of top earners e.g. ministers, CEOs, and if need be all salaried workers as well, to 40%.
I am all for raising income tax of top earners e.g. ministers, CEOs, and if need be all salaried workers as well, to 40%.
raise it all across the board. since health care is for eveyrone.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sn.html
Singapore Armed Forces: Army, Navy, Air Force (includes Air Defense) (2010)
Military service age and obligation:
18-21 years of age for male compulsory military service; 16 years of age for volunteers; 2-year conscript service obligation, with a reserve obligation to age 40 (enlisted) or age 50 (officers) (2008)
Manpower available for military service:
males age 16-49: 1,255,902 (2010 est.)
Manpower fit for military service:
males age 16-49: 1,018,839
females age 16-49: 1,087,134 (2010 est.)
Manpower reaching militarily significant age annually:
male: 27,098
female: 25,368 (2010 est.)
Military expenditures:
4.9% of GDP (2005 est.)
country comparison to the world: 17
http://www.ibtimes.com/singapore-little-tiger-big-military-roar-705487
Ng defended Singapore’s military spending, insisting the Ministry of Defense only buys what is required to satisfy its security needs.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Singapore
Only 359 aircraft.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/05/09/spore-looks-ink-435m-defense-deal.html
Singapore’s F-15SG fighter jet pilots in Idaho will receive a US$435 million boost, if a proposed investment goes through within a year.
The sale is of laser-guided bombs, vehicles and aerial refueling services, among other things, to be used in the north-west American state by about 250 of the Republic of Singapore Air Force's (RSAF) pilots, weapon systems officers and ground crew for five years.
Take the regional giant, Indonesia. The Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004 not only devastated communities, it also laid bare the shortcomings of the armed forces, which proved to be ill-equipped and demoralised. As American and Australian troops poured off aircraft carriers and other ships into the ravaged province of Aceh to bring aid and search for victims, Indonesian troops were reduced to spectators. The newly elected president, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, took the humiliation personally. A former general, Mr Yudhoyono has since made modernising Indonesia's armed forces a priority.
Singapore has long sold weapons to other developing countries, but has recently been winning its first large orders from Western armies too. ST Engineering, the only South-East Asian firm in SIPRI's top 100 defence manufacturers, has sold over 100 Bronco (or Warthog) armoured troop carriers to the British, for use in Afghanistan.
http://defense-update.com/covers/cover_large/bronco_mod.jpg
http://defense-update.com/products/b/bronco_191208.html
ST Kinetics Awarded £150m for Delivery of over 1000 Bronco Armored All Terrain Tracked Carriers to Replace the British Forces' Viking All-Terrain Vehicles in Afghanistan
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4742057158_ede72d4e3e_b.jpg
http://militarynuts.com/index.php?showtopic=3018
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w275/spyder-album/Singapore/1st-Military-Intelligence.jpg
http://www.airshowaction.com/nlls2000/nlls2000_41.jpg
1. Singapore
**Total Fighter Fleet in 2009 = 99
(i) F-16C/Ds = 60 (other sources suggest higher numbers)
(ii) F-15SGs = 4 (20 on order)
(iii) F-5S/Ts = 35 (see other source on Singapore F-5s by tail numbers)
#No. of Troops (active/reserve)..........: 72,500 (active) and 312,000 (reserves)
2009 GDP (nominal) .........................: US$182.23 billion (IMF data)
*Defence Spending as a % of GDP ...: Between a low of 3.9% to a high of 5.1% (from 2000 to 2008)
*2010 Defence Spending...................: US$7,651 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2005 Defence Spending...................: US$6,908 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2001 Defence Spending...................: US$5,995 million (at constant 2009 prices)
2. Indonesia
**Total Fighter Fleet in 2009 = 39
(i) F-16A = 7
(ii) Su-27/30 = 7 (3 on order)
(iii) Hawk 209 = 25
#No. of Troops (active/reserve)..........: 302,000 (active) and 400,000 (reserves)
2009 GDP (nominal) .........................: US$539.37 billion (IMF data)
*Defence Spending as a % of GDP ...: Between a low of 1.0% to a high of 1.4% (from 2000 to 2008)
*2010 Defence Spending...................: US$6,009 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2005 Defence Spending...................: US$4,313 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2001 Defence Spending...................: US$2,025 million (at constant 2009 prices)
3. Thailand
**Total Fighter Fleet in 2009 = 97
(i) F-16A/Bs = 50
(ii) F-5A/E = 47
(iii) Gripen C = 0 (other sources suggest that it is 6 +6 on order)
#No. of Troops (active/reserve)..........: 305,860 (active) and 200,000 (reserves)
2009 GDP (nominal) .........................: US$263.97 billion (IMF data)
*Defence Spending as a % of GDP ...: Between a low of 1.1% to a high of 1.5% (from 2000 to 2008)
*2010 Defence Spending...................: US$4,336 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2005 Defence Spending...................: US$2,547 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2001 Defence Spending...................: US$2,747 million (at constant 2009 prices)
4. Malaysia
**Total Fighter Fleet in 2009 = 59
(i) Su-30MKM = 18
(ii) F/A-18D = 8
(iii) MiG-29 = 10
(iv) RF-5E= 9
(v) Hawk 208 = 14
#No. of Troops (active/reserve)..........: 109,000 (active) and 296,300 (reserves)
2009 GDP (nominal) .........................: US$192.95 billion (IMF data)
*Defence Spending as a % of GDP ...: Between a low of 2.0% to a high of 2.6% (from 2000 to 2008)
*2010 Defence Spending...................: US$3,259 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2005 Defence Spending...................: US$3,758 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2001 Defence Spending...................: US$2,513 million (at constant 2009 prices)
5. Vietnam
**Total Fighter Fleet in 2009 = 202
(i) MiG-21 = 146
(ii) Su-22 = 38
(iii) Su-27/30 = 18 (8 on order)
#No. of Troops (active/reserve)..........: 455,000 (active) and 5 million (reserves)
2009 GDP (nominal) .........................: US$92.43 billion (IMF data)
*Defence Spending as a % of GDP ...: Between a low of 2% to a high of 2.5% (data from 2003 to 2008)
*2010 Defence Spending...................: US$2,410 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2005 Defence Spending...................: US$1,462 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2001 Defence Spending...................: No data shown in SIPRI database
6. Philippines
**Total Fighter Fleet in 2009 = 0
(i) S-211 = 13 (S211 is not classed as fighter aircaft, as its not even an AJT)
(ii) OV-10 =11 (ground attack and not usually classes as fighter aircaft)
[Note: I believe the actual working inventory may be lower]
#No. of Troops (active/reserve)..........: 120,000 (active) and 131,000 (reserves)
2009 GDP (nominal) .........................: US$161.19 billion (IMF data)
*Defence Spending as a % of GDP ...: Between a low of 0.8% to a high of 1.0% (from 2001 to 2008)
*2010 Defence Spending...................: US$1,486 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2005 Defence Spending...................: US$ 1,231 million (at constant 2009 prices)
*2001 Defence Spending...................: US$ 1,130 million (at constant 2009 prices)
This post has been edited by Grunt on Aug 15 2011, 10:11 PM
http://defense-update.com/covers/cover_large/guardium_large.jpg
Past: Population matters. More people = more guns.
Future: Money matters. More money = more guns.
raise it all across the board. since health care is for eveyrone.
yes, agree. Please carry on.
Excuse me! Can you read my note. My comparison is in absolute dollar value! Singapore >$8M and it's still so much higher than the rest of neighbor the countries.:tsk-tsk:
Since when did I say it is in per capital GDP!:rolleyes:
u r comparison is so flawed. per capital GDP? population size are not considered? larger population sized countries even the per capital is low 1% there is more than 1% of Singapore.
Since the elite group and top earners got all the benefits from the growth of GDP. They made full use of the Singapore situation/advantages/facilities/infrastructures/amenities/etc and reap the benefits/profile out of the Singapore situation. I must say they SHOULD pay more taxes than average people. More taxes are for also for others NOT just for health care!
raise it all across the board. since health care is for eveyrone.
Insisting the Ministry of Defense only buys what is required to satisfy its security needs is not good enough, should explain what is required to satisfy its security needs. :rolleyes: How buying those can satisfy its security need?
http://www.ibtimes.com/singapore-little-tiger-big-military-roar-705487
Ng defended Singapore’s military spending, insisting the Ministry of Defense only buys what is required to satisfy its security needs.
Since the elite group and top earners got all the benefits from the growth of GDP. They made full use of the Singapore situation/advantages/facilities/infrastructures/amenities/etc and reap the benefits/profile out of the Singapore situation. I must say they SHOULD pay more taxes than average people. More taxes are for also for others NOT just for health care!
Being rich is not a crime. U mean the other Singaporean never benefited from Singapore growth?
http://www.tremeritus.com/2012/09/01/perm-sec-who-went-to-france-to-learn-cooking-retires-as-millionaire/
Take the regional giant, Indonesia. The Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004 not only devastated communities, it also laid bare the shortcomings of the armed forces, which proved to be ill-equipped and demoralised. As American and Australian troops poured off aircraft carriers and other ships into the ravaged province of Aceh to bring aid and search for victims, Indonesian troops were reduced to spectators. The newly elected president, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, took the humiliation personally. A former general, Mr Yudhoyono has since made modernising Indonesia's armed forces a priority.
dude, please don't be a simpleton. it was a natural disaster of an epic scale, and no amount of army forces will prevent it from happening and decimating coastlines.
unless u intend the army to line up tanks on beaches to soak up the brunt of the waves.
u really tock cock water in the brain. skull so thick brian so small. ear deaf eyes blind.
1. I already say are our planes a lot meh? I dont think its a lot.
2. your thick head cannot understand bring our the old plane new plane. regardless old or new they are fighters planes. with larger no. still are superior.
3. I point to the japan kamakazi as a example u don't need superior planes to cause destruction. Old planes in large numbers can also cause damage.
4. Taking ur anal logy of new plane only ration. even u want to anal ur logy. sure. we still justified to have that number or new planes. why? coz 3:1 air superiority. maybe u never sit in a plane b4. never fly 1 most likly. In a Dog fight 3:1 is a superiority advantage. maybe u still stupid don't understand. 1/3 is 33% only win chance ok.. a hiao bo.
stupid people have really limited ability to understand anything.
1. i've already shown you our modern combat planes outnumber all of those from indonesia and malaysia combined
2. sure, old fighter planes are still fighter planes. zero fighters and B-42s are all fighter planes, so why bother getting F35s? stupid. we can buy 10000 zero fighters now, why bother with 12 F35s with the same amount of money?
3. i've already told u to read up on history. and please, the destruction of kamikaze attacks isn't that great. if u plan to quote pearl harbor, it was the element of surprise and the knowledge of knowing that they don't have fuel to make the return trip that prompted the suicide attacks. u burn a plane, u just order another one. u kill a pilot, u take years to train. the kamikaze strategy was a desperate ploy and it unwittingly destroyed japan's air capabilities.
4. we already outnumber malaysia's and indonesia's airforce 3:1 - stupid. so what next? 10:1?
eh, how stupid can u be? u contradict yourself between each point
u r comparison is so flawed. per capital GDP? population size are not considered? larger population sized countries even the per capital is low 1% there is more than 1% of Singapore.
wah piang, the data had absolute dollars and u can even fail to see that??!!!
this is beyond stupid. i don't even have a word to describe you
1. i've already shown you our modern combat planes outnumber all of those from indonesia and malaysia combined
2. sure, old fighter planes are still fighter planes. zero fighters and B-42s are all fighter planes, so why bother getting F35s? stupid. we can buy 10000 zero fighters now, why bother with 12 F35s with the same amount of money?
3. i've already told u to read up on history. and please, the destruction of kamikaze attacks isn't that great. if u plan to quote pearl harbor, it was the element of surprise and the knowledge of knowing that they don't have fuel to make the return trip that prompted the suicide attacks. u burn a plane, u just order another one. u kill a pilot, u take years to train. the kamikaze strategy was a desperate ploy and it unwittingly destroyed japan's air capabilities.
4. we already outnumber malaysia's and indonesia's airforce 3:1 - stupid. so what next? 10:1?
eh, how stupid can u be? u contradict yourself between each point
When u are stupid there is no use to explain to u. coz it just beyond ur intellect.
wah piang, the data had absolute dollars and u can even fail to see that??!!!
this is beyond stupid. i don't even have a word to describe you
u are stupid is it? population size do matters. to. shit for brains.
Knock Knock any thing in there? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Since the elite group and top earners got all the benefits from the growth of GDP. They made full use of the Singapore situation/advantages/facilities/infrastructures/amenities/etc and reap the benefits/profile out of the Singapore situation. I must say they SHOULD pay more taxes than average people. More taxes are for also for others NOT just for health care!
Being rich is not a crime. U mean the other Singaporean never benefited from Singapore growth?
who benefits more from a safe environment? or rather who has more to lose in an unsafe enviroment?
if a poor man is killed in a robbery, how much money can he lose?
if a rich man is killed in a robbery, how much money will he lose?
since a rich man has more to lose if he is robbed, hurt, killed, he should pay higher taxes because he benefit more in a safe environment. Lets tax the rich more so that our government can spend more on defense and security.
btw, If I am a garbage collector, it doesnt matter if Singapore is independent or conquered. I will still be a garbage collector, living a hand-to-mouth existence. so why should i pay any tax at all, be it income tax, gst etc.
u are stupid is it? population size do matters. to. shit for brains.
Knock Knock any thing in there? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
thanks for scolding yourself, we can all ascertain you have no idea what you are getting into:
Rank Country Spending ($)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures#cite_note-4) % of GDP Per capita
23 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Flag_of_Singapore.svg/33px-Flag_of_Singapore.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore) Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Armed_Forces) 8,302,000,000 3.7% 1,593
28 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Flag_of_Indonesia.svg/33px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia) Indonesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Indonesia) 5,220,000,000 0.7%
47 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Flag_of_Malaysia.svg/33px-Flag_of_Malaysia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia) Malaysia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Malaysia) 3,259,000,000 2.0% 0.8%
59 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Flag_of_the_Philippines.svg/33px-Flag_of_the_Philippines.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines) Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_of_the_Philippines) 1,486,000,000 0.8%
Singapore has the smallest population but outspends the fourth largest country by $3trillion.
this is what i call "FACEPALM" bigtime. :doh: :doh: save yourself the embarrassment. being outdebated is one thing, but scoring own goals is reprehensible.
......
Singapore has the smallest population but outspends the fourth largest country by $3trillion.
.....
quick change trillion to billion
quick change trillion to billion
oops, ya. my bad, trying hard to beat the zzz monster after lunch
"The Fairness of the System": Lee Kuan Yew's Encounter with Britain's National Health Service
George P. Landow, Professor of English and Art History, Brown University; Distinguished Visiting Professor, National University of Singapore, 1998-1999
Although Lee Kuan Yew's experience of the Japanese conquest of Malaya left him with few illusions about either the permanence of Empire or any caucasian racial superiority or mission, his first encounters with Britain's National Health Service left him greatly impressed:
Soon after the National Health Service Act was passed in 1948, I went to collect my spectacles from an optician in Regent Street in Cambridge. I had expected to pay between five and six pounds for them. At the counter the optician proudly told me that I did not have to pay for them, and instead gave me a form to sign. I was delighted and thought to myself that this was what a civilised society should be. [129]
Visits to a dentist and a physician while he was a student at Cambridge again left him "enormously impressed," as did the British willingness to provide "free dental treatment" for Europeans who travelled to the U. K. to avoid paying for such care at home. "What struck me most," he added, "was the fairness of the system. The government was creating a society that would get everybody -- rich or poor, high or low or middle class -- on to one broad band of decent living standards. And this although there were still shortages" (129).
Looking back from more than four decades after his encounters with Britain's NHS and Harold Laski's lectures at socialism at the London School of Economics, Lee confessed that he was then "too idealistic" to realize the financial costs of such policies, and when Singapore became independent, it did not have enough wealth to fund them. He also did not realize, he says, "that under such an egalitarian system each individual would be more interested in what he could get out of the common pool than in striving to do better for himself, which had been the driving force for progress throughout human evolution (129).
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/singapore/government/leekuanyew/lky13.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mATjvcwSjrA
李敖解释为什么说新加坡人笨
oops, ya. my bad, trying hard to beat the zzz monster after lunch
ZZZ monster or just plain stupid?
thanks for scolding yourself, we can all ascertain you have no idea what you are getting into:
Rank Country Spending ($)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures#cite_note-4) % of GDP Per capita
23 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Flag_of_Singapore.svg/33px-Flag_of_Singapore.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore) Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Armed_Forces) 8,302,000,000 3.7% 1,593
28 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Flag_of_Indonesia.svg/33px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia) Indonesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Indonesia) 5,220,000,000 0.7%
47 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Flag_of_Malaysia.svg/33px-Flag_of_Malaysia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia) Malaysia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Malaysia) 3,259,000,000 2.0% 0.8%
59 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Flag_of_the_Philippines.svg/33px-Flag_of_the_Philippines.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines) Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_of_the_Philippines) 1,486,000,000 0.8%
Singapore has the smallest population but outspends the fourth largest country by $3trillion.
this is what i call "FACEPALM" bigtime. :doh: :doh: save yourself the embarrassment. being outdebated is one thing, but scoring own goals is reprehensible.
Like I say. we are small our population is not big. so we need more defence gear. Stupid is Stupid. u can palm ur head a few times more.. coz its really hollow.
And they have the cheek to cut their own tax rates, and spread the taxes via so called "progressive taxes" like GSTs down to the middle incomes and lower incomes, expecting the buck of the people (mainly middle and upper-middle income group) to help pay more taxes so that they the top 0.1% income earners can save more on taxes?! :tsk-tsk:
I believe going by this trend, they will lose more votes come 2016 because of their so-called "progressive taxes" (like recently introduced additional property taxes expecting the rest of 30% people to pay more taxes while they so conveniently removed estate duty that only hits the top 0.01% richie rich several years ago!).
who benefits more from a safe environment? or rather who has more to lose in an unsafe enviroment?
if a poor man is killed in a robbery, how much money can he lose?
if a rich man is killed in a robbery, how much money will he lose?
since a rich man has more to lose if he is robbed, hurt, killed, he should pay higher taxes because he benefit more in a safe environment. Lets tax the rich more so that our government can spend more on defense and security.
btw, If I am a garbage collector, it doesnt matter if Singapore is independent or conquered. I will still be a garbage collector, living a hand-to-mouth existence. so why should i pay any tax at all, be it income tax, gst etc.
And they have the cheek to cut their own tax rates, and spread the taxes via so called "progressive taxes" like GSTs down to the middle incomes and lower incomes, expecting the buck of the people (mainly middle and upper-middle income group) to help pay more taxes so that they the top 0.1% income earners can save more on taxes?! :tsk-tsk:
I believe going by this trend, they will lose more votes come 2016 because of their so-called "progressive taxes" (like recently introduced additional property taxes expecting the rest of 30% people to pay more taxes while they so conveniently removed estate duty that only hits the top 0.01% richie rich several years ago!).
A minor correction, GST is not a progressive tax. It is a regressive tax.
really ? In 2010, 84.2% of all GST paid was collected from foreigners and the top 40% of Singaporean households, while the bottom 20% of households contributed only 4% of all GST paid. The government argued that as the GST was a core part of a fiscal system that provides transfers to the lower income, reducing the GST rate would be costly and inequitable, and leave the government with less resources to help the lower income
lowering GST only help the rich save $.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/video/uss-stennis-sails-home-af/630168.html
USS Stennis sails home after stopping by Singapore
Like I say. we are small our population is not big. so we need more defence gear. Stupid is Stupid. u can palm ur head a few times more.. coz its really hollow.
population not big and we need more defence gear??!!! :doh: :doh:
so kusu island needs a billion troops to defend it.
moron, u need a freaking huge army to defend a nation the size of indonesia. the larger the land size, the greater the border risk. the more resources the country has, the greater the need to protect them.
then using your analogy, Monaco, the second smallest country in the world, should have an army size that rival or dwarf USA's. it has loads of ultra rich and a well-established financial system to protect. guess what, there are 255 soldiers serving in Monaco's military (not including civilian employees who currently number 35 total), making its military the third smallest in the world
http://www.monaco.alloexpat.com/monaco_information/military_monaco.php
really ? In 2010, 84.2% of all GST paid was collected from foreigners and the top 40% of Singaporean households, while the bottom 20% of households contributed only 4% of all GST paid. The government argued that as the GST was a core part of a fiscal system that provides transfers to the lower income, reducing the GST rate would be costly and inequitable, and leave the government with less resources to help the lower income
lowering GST only help the rich save $.
do u even know what the opponents of GST are even clamouring for? you are totally off-tangent. no one is demanding for an abolishment of GST.
and for that, go read up or else you are going to embarrass yourself again and again and again
do u even know what the opponents of GST are even clamouring for? you are totally off-tangent. no one is demanding for an abolishment of GST.
and for that, go read up or else you are going to embarrass yourself again and again and again
which blind eye of urs did u read I say abolish GST? wat a nut head. the reduction of GST from the current level do not help the poor. basically the richer population actually have more saving coz they are the ones buying big ticket items thus form the larger portion of GST.
What a stupid fool. u want to jump go jump into the sea. dump ass.
population not big and we need more defence gear??!!! :doh: :doh:
so kusu island needs a billion troops to defend it.
moron, u need a freaking huge army to defend a nation the size of indonesia. the larger the land size, the greater the border risk. the more resources the country has, the greater the need to protect them.
then using your analogy, Monaco, the second smallest country in the world, should have an army size that rival or dwarf USA's. it has loads of ultra rich and a well-established financial system to protect. guess what, there are 255 soldiers serving in Monaco's military (not including civilian employees who currently number 35 total), making its military the third smallest in the world
http://www.monaco.alloexpat.com/monaco_information/military_monaco.php
geographical neighbors also have to be considered. Who are Monaco neighbors? So by ur anal theory Isreal should also not have so much weapons too right? after all they are also a small population country . ~8M people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
so ? with ur anal logy Monaco have the best health care in this case? since they spend less on arms? wat cock u got up ur ass? talk cock sing song.
I guess u like to be like monaco depend on ur neighbor to defend u? wat a weak ass u are. Monaco better hope they not become a Kuwait.
geographical neighbors also have to be considered. Who are Monaco neighbors? So by ur anal theory Isreal should also not have so much weapons too right? after all they are also a small population country . ~8M people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
so ? with ur anal logy Monaco have the best health care in this case? since they spend less on arms? wat cock u got up ur ass? talk cock sing song.
u were the one who came up with BS about correlation between population and military size. so now you equate singapore's relations with malaysia and indonesia to the likes of israel with palestine and iran. do you know the detrimental repercussions if ever such a statement gets out on MSM?
even if we were to use your newly cooked up goalposts, phillipines and vietnam are wrestling for control of territory with china but both spend significantly less on defence than singapore. go figure that out, stupid.
and may i bring back the focus of the debate - no one is saying we don't spend a cent on defence, but we can spend a little less so that other more immediate societal needs can be addressed. and till now, you have not even addressed the issue with all your nonsense.
that's why i keep saying, don't embarrass yourself. and please, the more you defend yourself, the more ludicrious and incendiary your statements become.
and putting resources into healthcare do not mean only building hospitals or nursing homes, it can be used for training physicians, allied health professionals and nurses.
http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/04/09/angry-man-sells-house-to-finance-daughters-medicine-study-overseas/
http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Asian%2BOpinions/Story/A1Story20130409-414629/2.html
A joke at his expense.
And so two dogs are swimming in the waters between Singapore and Borneo - but in opposite directions.
They pause halfway to exchange greetings.
The dog headed towards Borneo asked the other dog why he's swimming to Singapore. The answer: "Ah, the shopping, the housing, the air-conditioning, the health care, the schools. So why are you going to Borneo?" Says the dog from Singapore: "Oh, I just want to bark."
u were the one who came up with BS about correlation between population and military size. so now you equate singapore's relations with malaysia and indonesia to the likes of israel with palestine and iran. do you know the detrimental repercussions if ever such a statement gets out on MSM?
even if we were to use your newly cooked up goalposts, phillipines and vietnam are wrestling for control of territory with china but both spend significantly less on defence than singapore. go figure that out, stupid.
and may i bring back the focus of the debate - no one is saying we don't spend a cent on defence, but we can spend a little less so that other more immediate societal needs can be addressed. and till now, you have not even addressed the issue with all your nonsense.
that's why i keep saying, don't embarrass yourself. and please, the more you defend yourself, the more ludicrious and incendiary your statements become.
LOL prata man. change again? flip n flip.. I think u need a dash of curry sauce to spice it up.
and putting resources into healthcare do not mean only building hospitals or nursing homes, it can be used for training physicians, allied health professionals and nurses.
another bullshit bias blog site. censors all comments who dont agree with them. All the want to post is negative. comments. wat "unbias" net journalism is this crap.
only fools like u keep reading those trash.
so we are not investing in those? do you know not many singaporean want to be nurse? we are recruiting from overseas?
opps forgot again. u anti foreigners only want to see singaporean nurse right. wat a dumb bs. hypocrite .
another bullshit bias blog site. censors all comments who dont agree with them. All the want to post is negative. comments. wat "unbias" net journalism is this crap.
only fools like u keep reading those trash.
so we are not investing in those? do you know not many singaporean want to be nurse? we are recruiting from overseas?
opps forgot again. u anti foreigners only want to see singaporean nurse right. wat a dumb bs. hypocrite .
moron, i and my friends lived the experience ourselves. hundreds of straight As students not given even an interview for med school.
it is a fact that our shortage of doctors is caused by government policies and a dearth of medical schools.
can't believe you would be moronic enough to argue against history
LOL prata man. change again? flip n flip.. I think u need a dash of curry sauce to spice it up.
WAHAHAHAHAHA, kenna outmaneuvered and all you can do is this??
pathetic
Not I said le, I am echoing what they said le...:beats-me-man:
A minor correction, GST is not a progressive tax. It is a regressive tax.
WAHAHAHAHAHA, kenna outmaneuvered and all you can do is this??
pathetic
out maneuvered LOL really I dont see how u out maneuvered? with all ur anal litics power all u can is WAHAHAHAHAHAH ? u also can flip leh.. prata man.
WAHAHAHAHAHA, kenna outmaneuvered and all you can do is this??
pathetic
BTW are u related or Gilbert Goh? U sounded like him the flip flop artist leh.
Not I said le, I am echoing what they said le...:beats-me-man:
erm, it is a regressive tax.
out maneuvered LOL really I dont see how u out maneuvered? with all ur anal litics power all u can is WAHAHAHAHAHAH ? u also can flip leh.. prata man.
let me give you another personalized quote
"What is more vexful than being stupid? Being stupid and not recognising it", Sir A.W.
let me give you another personalized quote
"What is more vexful than being stupid? Being stupid and not recognising it", Sir A.W.
are u speaking from experience? and trying to share with the folks here? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
are u speaking from experience? and trying to share with the folks here? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
WAHAHAHAHA, definitely speaking from experience after seeing how you make your arguments.
WAHAHAHAHA, definitely speaking from experience after seeing how you make your arguments.
its good that u finally recognized ur stupidity. Recognizing ur shortcoming is the 1st step to rehabilitation .
its good that u finally recognized ur stupidity. Recognizing ur shortcoming is the 1st step to rehabilitation .
yawn........
sure sure, coming from someone who can't even differentiate between capitalism and socialism
sure sure, coming from someone who doesn't even know the definition of xenophobia
sure sure, coming from someone who claims that manufacturing is no longer an economic pillar of singapore.
sure sure, coming from someone who proposes to stop hiring of FDWs
sure sure, coming from someone who correlates the size of military inversely to a nation's population
by the way, thanks for responding so that we are reminded of your extraodinary stupidity
yawn........
sure sure, coming from someone who can't even differentiate between capitalism and socialism
sure sure, coming from someone who doesn't even know the definition of xenophobia
sure sure, coming from someone who claims that manufacturing is no longer an economic pillar of singapore.
sure sure, coming from someone who proposes to stop hiring of FDWs
sure sure, coming from someone who correlates the size of military inversely to a nation's population
by the way, thanks for responding so that we are reminded of your extraodinary stupidity
For someone that is xenophobic . U are one super prata man. Either u are just plain stupid or constantly miss quoting n miss interpreting what is being said. I totally feel it's the latter. Plan stupid n like to flip n flop ard.
Who was the smart Alec that says 20m taken from defense budget can put to a start a hospital ? And all the so solid benefits. When question 20m enough meh land cost , doc , nurse , equipment . Prata man say who talk abt running it.
Goes to show ur skill at flipping ard . Stupid.
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