View Full Version : HDB resale price index up 1.2% qoq
phantom_opera
01-04-13, 09:32
The resale flat price index climbed 1.2 per cent to 205.4 in the first quarter of 2013, from 202.9 in the previous quarter, according to the Housing & Development Board's (HDB) flash estimates released on Monday.
=> this quarter will have higher growth due to US stock ...my guesstimate peak is 270
=> Kenobi-wan may introduce socialist HDBs??
Inflation 4% to 5% per year and if hdb sell back to hdb, good luck. Now hdb owners still can catch up with inflation.
Inflation 4% to 5% per year and if hdb sell back to hdb, good luck. Now hdb owners still can catch up with inflation.
Can also sell back based on inflation rates right?
Can also sell back based on inflation rates right?
there is no details as of now. but i wouldn't place my bet on HDB doing so. Simply because who is to fund the extra monies?
e.g. HDB sells one flat at $100k
10 years later, HDB buys back the same flat at $134.4k
-> who is going to fund the difference of $34? Is HDB expected to incur a loss to its books?
there is no details as of now. but i wouldn't place my bet on HDB doing so. Simply because who is to fund the extra monies?
e.g. HDB sells one flat at $100k
10 years later, HDB buys back the same flat at $134.4k
-> who is going to fund the difference of $34? Is HDB expected to incur a loss to its books?
The buyer will have gained at minimum 2.6% (savings of interest) every year!
Anyway I suppose they might have lease at 70 yrs just like China. Sell in 10 years still have some buffer for second buyer to loan.
The buyer will have gained at minimum 2.6% (savings of interest) every year!
Anyway I suppose they might have lease at 70 yrs just like China. Sell in 10 years still have some buffer for second buyer to loan.
Sure, but who is coming up with the funds to pay the buyer? HDB? Government?
unless the above question is solved, i won't place my bet on HDB repurchasing units at inflation-adjusted prices
Lease depreciates by 1.4K a year (simplified), 10 years, 14K.
So the buyer saves 2.6% (assuming 2.6K per year), 10 years, 26K.
Include inflation: 10 years, 34-40K.
So at the end of 10 years sell back to HDB @ 100K. Everybody happy?
Lease depreciates by 1.4K a year (simplified), 10 years, 14K.
So the buyer saves 2.6% (assuming 2.6K per year), 10 years, 26K.
Include inflation: 10 years, 34-40K.
So at the end of 10 years sell back to HDB @ 100K. Everybody happy?
heh, try asking potential buyers if they would want to purchase these 'low-cost' flats or not
heh, try asking potential buyers if they would want to purchase these 'low-cost' flats or not
Got lah. Some just want to live there until they die there. Frankly, 70 years will be sufficient to see them through. Two groups:
1. Singles
2. Couples without children.
This is the best boat for them as the big ones have already left the harbour, cruising in open seas already.
Can you imagine the savings compounded over 70 years?
Got lah. Some just want to live there until they die there. Frankly, 70 years will be sufficient to see them through. Two groups:
1. Singles
2. Couples without children.
This is the best boat for them as the big ones have already left the harbour, cruising in open seas already.
Can you imagine the savings compounded over 70 years?
that is merely an assumption. wait for HDB to announce details and see the pick-up rate. whatever we say now, is at best, speculation
there is no details as of now. but i wouldn't place my bet on HDB doing so. Simply because who is to fund the extra monies?
e.g. HDB sells one flat at $100k
10 years later, HDB buys back the same flat at $134.4k
-> who is going to fund the difference of $34? Is HDB expected to incur a loss to its books?
To solve that is pretty simple, just sell the HDB to the next buyer at $134k or $145k or higher hahaha.
I like the idea that selling back the HDB to at cost + inflation concept. This will actually help those who really in needs.
My suggestion is to create another asset group (Buy frm HDB-Sell back to HDB with inflation). Govt can allocate 5-10% from the existing HDB to test out the market (% may fluctuate depends on demand). There will be no differentiation in terms quality and location. This will allow a good mixture between the poor and average/rich. The catch is, they cant sell to the public, they cant rent out for profit, they cant own private ppty. As for those who choose (Buy frm HDB/Public- Sell to public) , They can sell at market price, they can rent out whole unit, they can own private ppty at the same time.
The owner for (Buy frm HDB-Sell back to HDB with inflation) can later choose to convert to the later scheme once they are more financially sound at a price dertermine by the market
The target group for (Buy frm HDB-Sell back to HDB with inflation) are young couple(less saving), Business man (need cashflow for Biz), Retiree (free up cash for medical), Non Ppty investor (invest in stock, bond, comodities.Etc).
Target group for (Buy frm HDB/Public- Sell to public), Multiple Ppty owner, Target rental yield, Ppty speculator, support housing agent.
These 2 assets group should address the concern of high ppty price by youngster and not affecting those already vested in HDB. Moreover, Govt can change the ratio of the 2 groups based on demands in within the same area/block.
Win Win Win
To solve that is pretty simple, just sell the HDB to the next buyer at $134k or $145k or higher hahaha.
I like the idea that selling back the HDB to at cost + inflation concept. This will actually help those who really in needs.
My suggestion is to create another asset group (Buy frm HDB-Sell back to HDB with inflation). Govt can allocate 5-10% from the existing HDB to test out the market (% may fluctuate depends on demand). There will be no differentiation in terms quality and location. This will allow a good mixture between the poor and average/rich. The catch is, they cant sell to the public, they cant rent out for profit, they cant own private ppty. As for those who choose (Buy frm HDB/Public- Sell to public) , They can sell at market price, they can rent out whole unit, they can own private ppty at the same time.
The owner for (Buy frm HDB-Sell back to HDB with inflation) can later choose to convert to the later scheme once they are more financially sound at a price dertermine by the market
The target group for (Buy frm HDB-Sell back to HDB with inflation) are young couple(less saving), Business man (need cashflow for Biz), Retiree (free up cash for medical), Non Ppty investor (invest in stock, bond, comodities.Etc).
Target group for (Buy frm HDB/Public- Sell to public), Multiple Ppty owner, Target rental yield, Ppty speculator, support housing agent.
These 2 assets group should address the concern of high ppty price by youngster and not affecting those already vested in HDB. Moreover, Govt can change the ratio of the 2 groups based on demands in within the same area/block.
Win Win Win
let us look at your first target group - the cash strapped. even if there is a conversion scheme in place, are they able to pay say a difference (purchase vs resale price) in premium of at least $400k to do so? if they managed to do it, it makes no difference from purchasing a resale. unless the prices of resale flats descend, the scheme may not make much sense.
secondly, if HDB purchases these low-cost units, is it a guarantee that it will not make any profit from re-selling the unit to the next buyer? please keep in mind that transactions as such do cost money. as claimed by MND, current new flat prices are already "cost+". if we do our calculations well, it isn't entirely true since a major factor that is causing the ballooning prices is HDB's insistence on pegging land costs to market value. hence, when HDB's "cost+" isn't truly as what it claims to be.
lastly, we question the desirability of such low cost flats.
let us look at your first target group - the cash strapped. even if there is a conversion scheme in place, are they able to pay say a difference (purchase vs resale price) in premium of at least $400k to do so? if they managed to do it, it makes no difference from purchasing a resale. unless the prices of resale flats descend, the scheme may not make much sense.
secondly, if HDB purchases these low-cost units, is it a guarantee that it will not make any profit from re-selling the unit to the next buyer? please keep in mind that transactions as such do cost money. as claimed by MND, current new flat prices are already "cost+". if we do our calculations well, it isn't entirely true since a major factor that is causing the ballooning prices is HDB's insistence on pegging land costs to market value. hence, when HDB's "cost+" isn't truly as what it claims to be.
lastly, we question the desirability of such low cost flats.
Yes, the premium of $400k can obtain a loan from bank/HDB as the ppty value now is not pegged to buy price + inflation (after conversion) but resale value. The idea of making it no difference from buying from resale is to prevent any loopholes and disadvantage to those already vested in the area. Secondly, the choice is with the owner whether to move out to another resale flat or conveniently convert and life goes on. This should work like a bridge to help those in need of housing and ultimately turn it into an investment asset.
There is no guarantee that HDB will not profit from the Low-cost HDB, is their call, but this Low-cost HDB should be minimumly be affordable to the people (example 3yrs average annual household salary)
HDB should unpegged the land cost for this group of asset. The poorer citizen will never make it if this practice continue as the land cost will only go higher and higher (scarce in land). However HDB can always get the return back from the (Buy frm HDB/Public- Sell to public) Grp . This group should see a surge in rental or resale if Govt allocate more for the Low-cost.
Your 3rd Question on desirability, there is no diff in term of quality and location. This could happen within the same block. Say 1st floor to 5th floor (Group1), 6th floor onwards (grp2) or the other way round. Best is not to have obvious diffrentiation, otherwise young ppl complain.
The different should only be as follow, cannot resale on open market, cannot rent out, cannot hold more than 1 ppty.
Yes, the premium of $400k can obtain a loan from bank/HDB as the ppty value now is not pegged to buy price + inflation (after conversion) but resale value. The idea of making it no difference from buying from resale is to prevent any loopholes and disadvantage to those already vested in the area. Secondly, the choice is with the owner whether to move out to another resale flat or conveniently convert and life goes on. This should work like a bridge to help those in need of housing and ultimately turn it into an investment asset.
There is no guarantee that HDB will not profit from the Low-cost HDB, is their call, but this Low-cost HDB should be minimumly be affordable to the people (example 3yrs average annual household salary)
HDB should unpegged the land cost for this group of asset. The poorer citizen will never make it if this practice continue as the land cost will only go higher and higher (scarce in land). However HDB can always get the return back from the (Buy frm HDB/Public- Sell to public) Grp . This group should see a surge in rental or resale if Govt allocate more for the Low-cost.
Your 3rd Question on desirability, there is no diff in term of quality and location. This could happen within the same block. Say 1st floor to 5th floor (Group1), 6th floor onwards (grp2) or the other way round. Best is not to have obvious diffrentiation, otherwise young ppl complain.
The different should only be as follow, cannot resale on open market, cannot rent out, cannot hold more than 1 ppty.
HDB has always maintained that public housing is affordable but prices have still continued to run away. if these low cost housing are pegged at 3years median national household salary, it makes sense but violates HDB's costing principle.
the desirability stems from the fact that one is able to enjoy huge capital appreciation while the other can only look on (and suck thumb). as for the conversion scheme, these low cost flats should never be viewed upon as an option for investment in the first place. it, again, violates the core essence of why these flats should exist
Allthepies
01-04-13, 16:38
I thought one of the forumers has already proposed quite a good solution: New HDB can only be resold to citizens age 35 years or younger. This will make new HDB even more affordable and new resale HDB even more affordable. Win win for all.
I don't mind paying higher taxes so that the really poor family can get HDB for free.
HDB has always maintained that public housing is affordable but prices have still continued to run away. if these low cost housing are pegged at 3years median national household salary, it makes sense but violates HDB's costing principle.
the desirability stems from the fact that one is able to enjoy huge capital appreciation while the other can only look on (and suck thumb). as for the conversion scheme, these low cost flats should never be viewed upon as an option for investment in the first place. it, again, violates the core essence of why these flats should exist
The HDB costing principle still remain for the 2nd grp, just that group1 of low-cost housing is to serve the poorer/in need urgently. HDB can always allocate the additional cost to Grp 2 where they can recoup it back via rental to Foreigner or resale it to the market at a higher price. HDB can decide the allocation for low cost and normal HDB.
The propose to allow conversion is to allow them to take advantage when the market crash (resale value drop) and this should workout as an opportunity for them to upgrade and ride on the profit if price surge(no more suck tumb). HDB can also use this premium collected to subsidise other HDB flat. By having this grp1 of people in the market, it will put a stop for the poorer citizen continue supporting the richer (Richer keep on asking for sky rocket price, high COV) since they can opt for this scheme from HDB. Again HDB can decide the alloaction on each block balancing between vested and not vested. Idea is to close the gap between rich and poor not widen it.
that is merely an assumption. wait for HDB to announce details and see the pick-up rate. whatever we say now, is at best, speculation
Guaranteed and chop will have subscriber lah...
If no demand the Ministry will not specially arrange for this.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tv/tvshows/on_the_red_dot/housing-the-nation-should-hdb-flats-be-a/622238.html
To buy back means you want them to hedge your inflation risk?? 4-5% a year very ex leh. I think it's wishful thinking. Haha.
phantom_opera
01-04-13, 18:51
dream of entitlements that is
No party can guarantee you a return of inflation rate every year. That's the whole point of putting some money in real estate. Leave it to the market to hopefully hedge you against inflation.
No party can guarantee you a return of inflation rate every year. That's the whole point of putting some money in real estate. Leave it to the market to hopefully hedge you against inflation.
Its a v important idea. But the way many people do it makes you wonder if they are creating a hedge or wedge.
phantom_opera
01-04-13, 20:11
ppl think Temasek/GIC very rich, little they know that if we hand out these reserve + whatever MOF/MAS have, everyone will get something like 200k only
so think again, how much u want SG to subsidize u
Its a v important idea. But the way many people do it makes you wonder if they are creating a hedge or wedge.
the wedge begets a larger wedge. that's why there are boom and bust cycles.
CondoInterested
02-04-13, 00:54
You got read THIS (http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=384928&postcount=29) before your post?
If you haven't, we think alike. If you have, copycat.
To solve that is pretty simple, just sell the HDB to the next buyer at $134k or $145k or higher hahaha.
I like the idea that selling back the HDB to at cost + inflation concept. This will actually help those who really in needs.
My suggestion is to create another asset group (Buy frm HDB-Sell back to HDB with inflation). Govt can allocate 5-10% from the existing HDB to test out the market (% may fluctuate depends on demand). There will be no differentiation in terms quality and location. This will allow a good mixture between the poor and average/rich. The catch is, they cant sell to the public, they cant rent out for profit, they cant own private ppty. As for those who choose (Buy frm HDB/Public- Sell to public) , They can sell at market price, they can rent out whole unit, they can own private ppty at the same time.
The owner for (Buy frm HDB-Sell back to HDB with inflation) can later choose to convert to the later scheme once they are more financially sound at a price dertermine by the market
The target group for (Buy frm HDB-Sell back to HDB with inflation) are young couple(less saving), Business man (need cashflow for Biz), Retiree (free up cash for medical), Non Ppty investor (invest in stock, bond, comodities.Etc).
Target group for (Buy frm HDB/Public- Sell to public), Multiple Ppty owner, Target rental yield, Ppty speculator, support housing agent.
These 2 assets group should address the concern of high ppty price by youngster and not affecting those already vested in HDB. Moreover, Govt can change the ratio of the 2 groups based on demands in within the same area/block.
Win Win Win
You got read THIS (http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=384928&postcount=29) before your post?
If you haven't, we think alike. If you have, copycat.
so u are saying we should have a rich HDB i.e. the HDB/Public and the Poor HDB/Private.
so the poor will remain poor and the HDB/Private live by all the poorer will become a poor grotto? The cycles repeat it selves and the poor have no chance to get out of the cycle at all even when the nation prosper. i.e. the rich HDB/pubic see price appreciation in their assets?
Thus the widening of the rich and poorer divide. how else can we split the nation even further...
dont think its win win more like win lost to me.
ppl think Temasek/GIC very rich, little they know that if we hand out these reserve + whatever MOF/MAS have, everyone will get something like 200k only
so think again, how much u want SG to subsidize u
wait till they are bing told must pay 45% tax then all will KPKB.
ppl think Temasek/GIC very rich, little they know that if we hand out these reserve + whatever MOF/MAS have, everyone will get something like 200k only
so think again, how much u want SG to subsidize u
The counter is, you don't have to touch the reserves. Just put land aside cheaply for this group. Feasible or fair?
the wedge begets a larger wedge. that's why there are boom and bust cycles.
Sounds great, until one gets wedged and immobilized in the process of trying to hedge.
I think it is important, but it's a important to consider the setup of hedging carefully.
The HDB costing principle still remain for the 2nd grp, just that group1 of low-cost housing is to serve the poorer/in need urgently. HDB can always allocate the additional cost to Grp 2 where they can recoup it back via rental to Foreigner or resale it to the market at a higher price. HDB can decide the allocation for low cost and normal HDB.
The propose to allow conversion is to allow them to take advantage when the market crash (resale value drop) and this should workout as an opportunity for them to upgrade and ride on the profit if price surge(no more suck tumb). HDB can also use this premium collected to subsidise other HDB flat. By having this grp1 of people in the market, it will put a stop for the poorer citizen continue supporting the richer (Richer keep on asking for sky rocket price, high COV) since they can opt for this scheme from HDB. Again HDB can decide the alloaction on each block balancing between vested and not vested. Idea is to close the gap between rich and poor not widen it.
you are then essentially transferring the risk to the used-to-be cash strapped owners when they opt to convert. the question then remains how much further can their property go, given that they are paying the premium (plus interest) at market rate? assume they convert and they opt to sell in the open market, would potential buyers pay an even higher premium for these units?? maybe a carrothead would, but i wouldn't. hence, my conclusion that the owners are made to bear the risk.
the reason why current units are more desirable is that capital appreciation outpaces inflation, plus interest costs.
Guaranteed and chop will have subscriber lah...
If no demand the Ministry will not specially arrange for this.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tv/tvshows/on_the_red_dot/housing-the-nation-should-hdb-flats-be-a/622238.html
well, i didn't say there won't be subscribers. i merely question the desirability of these units.
if i were to choose, i would want to get a BTO under the current scheme since it gives me more liberty to do what i want in the future
the reason why current units are more desirable is that capital appreciation outpaces inflation, plus interest costs.
An enlightened statement. Young people who see their salaries should read this statement and understand the implications of what they are requesting. You can't have the cake and eat it. As for those who are really of very low income, I guess they could use more help in the form of larger grants/subsidies.
Sounds great, until one gets wedged and immobilized in the process of trying to hedge.
I think it is important, but it's a important to consider the setup of hedging carefully.
Lelong prices only exist because of gung ho people attempting to hedge at the top of the cycle.
phantom_opera
02-04-13, 09:10
The counter is, you don't have to touch the reserves. Just put land aside cheaply for this group. Feasible or fair?
the lands, being scarce, are part of our reserve, we have nothing else
proceeds from land sales are then channeled into Temasek/GIC to ensure our reserve is not anyhow spent but invested for returns
why do u think GLS has reserve price and the chief valuer has the right to reject bids?
why make the HDB system so complicated?
just learn from China, raise the salary of some low-paid domains rapidly, say 10% per year. Mr Khaw will keep his promise by 2016.
Looking around the world, the blue collars are unfairly paid in Singapore just in the excuse of competitiveness of the country. How come the salary in finance is so high and it never affects the competitiveness of the country?
To me ,it is a kind of bully, deep from the mindset of the elitists. If goverment really worries about that will afect the comeptitiveness, more subsidies can be given to these fields.
you are then essentially transferring the risk to the used-to-be cash strapped owners when they opt to convert. the question then remains how much further can their property go, given that they are paying the premium (plus interest) at market rate? assume they convert and they opt to sell in the open market, would potential buyers pay an even higher premium for these units?? maybe a carrothead would, but i wouldn't. hence, my conclusion that the owners are made to bear the risk.
the reason why current units are more desirable is that capital appreciation outpaces inflation, plus interest costs.
Well, basically the idea is to help the needy and not affecting the current owner. The premium will allow the felxibility of owning private and HDB, Able to enjoy the passive income from rental and able to see it in the open market. Rich citizen/Optimistic would likely to opt for this. As for your question how much further can the price goes, it depends on the cycle of the property. There are people out there who think the price has reached the peak but due to desperate from getting a flat to start a family can always opt for the cheaper scheame. Subsequently if their forecast is correct they can convert to the resale scheme at the point of crash (cheaper after crash), then enjoy the upside. If their prediction is wrong, at least they can enjoy the stay in the flat at the cheaper price. We must always remember that, there are always 2 groups of people The Bull and The bear. One man meat could be another man poison.
phantom_opera
02-04-13, 09:39
Well, basically the idea is to help the needy and not affecting the current owner. The premium will allow the felxibility of owning private and HDB, Able to enjoy the passive income from rental and able to see it in the open market. Rich citizen/Optimistic would likely to opt for this. As for your question how much further can the price goes, it depends on the cycle of the property. There are people out there who think the price has reached the peak but due to desperate from getting a flat to start a family can always opt for the cheaper scheame. Subsequently if their forecast is correct they can convert to the resale scheme at the point of crash (cheaper after crash), then enjoy the upside. If their prediction is wrong, at least they can enjoy the stay in the flat at the cheaper price. We must always remember that, there are always 2 groups of people The Bull and The bear. One man meat could be another man poison.
what is the % of BTO u think should allocate to socialist housing? you roll out 5% 2r, 3r ... ppl will not be happy, they will demand 50% 4r, 5r ... what is the right balance? how about projects like NRP, are socialists HDBs qualified for revamp when it runs down?
remember, social housing and its maintenance is subsidized by taxpayers, if more BTOs turn into socialist housing, taxpayers will pay more and more, there is no free lunch in this world ...
why make the HDB system so complicated?
just learn from China, raise the salary of some low-paid domains rapidly, say 10% per year. Mr Khaw will keep his promise by 2016.
Looking around the world, the blue collars are unfairly paid in Singapore just in the excuse of competitiveness of the country. How come the salary in finance is so high and it never affects the competitiveness of the country?
To me ,it is a kind of bully, deep from the mindset of the elitists. If goverment really worries about that will afect the comeptitiveness, more subsidies can be given to these fields.
My view is that, whether is a skilled blue collar or unskill blue collar. Demands and supply globally/locally. In another 10 years times, we should se the salary gap between White collar and Blue collar narrow. Govt policy will import more white collar then the blue. Look at the local University, every year how many finance grad it produce, Vs how many plumber, garderner, electrician produced each year. I have many skilled blue collar friends and they are doing much better than me but of course without air con, without comfy seats in office. look at UK , US, Australia. Skilled blue collars are so in demand. As for the case of China, the salary increase only impacting those in rural China. Those in 1st tier Shanghai, Beijing already way above the minimum wage. Objective to close up the gap betweeen 3rd tier and 1st tier city.
what is the % of BTO u think should allocate to socialist housing? you roll out 5% 2r, 3r ... ppl will not be happy, they will demand 50% 4r, 5r ... what is the right balance? how about projects like NRP, are socialists HDBs qualified for revamp when it runs down?
remember, social housing and its maintenance is subsidized by taxpayers, if more BTOs turn into socialist housing, taxpayers will pay more and more, there is no free lunch in this world ...
folks dont care. when they have to pay they will KPKB. Why must pay! pay means I want to change government. Coz someone promised the promised land. RAPE the reserves 1st!
phantom_opera
02-04-13, 10:06
http://www.tremeritus.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/rpi.jpg
Well, basically the idea is to help the needy and not affecting the current owner. The premium will allow the felxibility of owning private and HDB, Able to enjoy the passive income from rental and able to see it in the open market. Rich citizen/Optimistic would likely to opt for this. As for your question how much further can the price goes, it depends on the cycle of the property. There are people out there who think the price has reached the peak but due to desperate from getting a flat to start a family can always opt for the cheaper scheame. Subsequently if their forecast is correct they can convert to the resale scheme at the point of crash (cheaper after crash), then enjoy the upside. If their prediction is wrong, at least they can enjoy the stay in the flat at the cheaper price. We must always remember that, there are always 2 groups of people The Bull and The bear. One man meat could be another man poison.
by your question that "how much further can property prices go", it already speaks of the inherent risks that owners have to bear. should i opt to "convert" at the peak, i take on the risk.
if you want capital appreciation, opt in the current system. if you want cheap housing, go for these low-cost units, baring in mind of all the speculated restrictions. if we have this "conversion" scheme in place, we should then question the need to have such low-cost units. it is akin to having the cake in your hand and eating in - this puts buyers of normal BTOs at a disadvantage
what is the % of BTO u think should allocate to socialist housing? you roll out 5% 2r, 3r ... ppl will not be happy, they will demand 50% 4r, 5r ... what is the right balance? how about projects like NRP, are socialists HDBs qualified for revamp when it runs down?
remember, social housing and its maintenance is subsidized by taxpayers, if more BTOs turn into socialist housing, taxpayers will pay more and more, there is no free lunch in this world ...
The % and 2r,3r,4r,5r , we leave it to the scholar from HDB to work out. Depends on Demand and supply,statistic numbers and ppty cycle. The socialist housing still entitle for NRP and revamp if run down. Yes taxpayer is subsidizing the opportunity cost , but is also the taxpayer get to enjoy the socialist housing, therefore no free lunch. As for the normal scheme, please go ahead and enjoy the high rental yield (supply drop due to socialist housing, cannot rent) and enjoy the potential upside too to offset their portion of subsidizing the socialist housing.
phantom_opera
02-04-13, 10:38
The % and 2r,3r,4r,5r , we leave it to the scholar from HDB to work out. Depends on Demand and supply,statistic numbers and ppty cycle. The socialist housing still entitle for NRP and revamp if run down. Yes taxpayer is subsidizing the opportunity cost , but is also the taxpayer get to enjoy the socialist housing, therefore no free lunch. As for the normal scheme, please go ahead and enjoy the high rental yield (supply drop due to socialist housing, cannot rent) and enjoy the potential upside too to offset their portion of subsidizing the socialist housing.
would u agree if socialist housing is only available in ulu places like Colin Island, Tengah or on Tekong / rubbish island :tongue3:
Regulators
02-04-13, 10:45
really don't know what the hell you blabbering :doh:
so u are saying we should have a rich HDB i.e. the HDB/Public and the Poor HDB/Private.
so the poor will remain poor and the HDB/Private live by all the poorer will become a poor grotto? The cycles repeat it selves and the poor have no chance to get out of the cycle at all even when the nation prosper. i.e. the rich HDB/pubic see price appreciation in their assets?
Thus the widening of the rich and poorer divide. how else can we split the nation even further...
dont think its win win more like win lost to me.
really don't know what the hell you blabbering :doh:
heh, that's expected of him
would u agree if socialist housing is only available in ulu places like Colin Island, Tengah or on Tekong / rubbish island :tongue3:
Hahahaha…you don’t need socialist housing there, is already cheap (my guess only). I would suggest the socialist housing be part of all BTO, Govt can play with the %. 50-50, 80-20%.....By differentiating these 2 grps of owner, govt can better manage their measure, instead announcing blanket policy that affecting either side. These 2 grps has different objective. 1 is to Huat Huat Huat price up up up, the other group satartup family, shelter. Let the people decide which grp they belongs to. The point is, if they made wrong decision dont blame the policy maker. Is their own choice , suck it up.
phantom_opera
02-04-13, 10:56
Hahahaha…you don’t need socialist housing there, is already cheap (my guess only). I would suggest the socialist housing be part of all BTO, Govt can play with the %. 50-50, 80-20%.....By differentiating these 2 grps of owner, govt can better manage their measure, instead announcing blanket policy that affecting either side. These 2 grps has different objective. 1 is to Huat Huat Huat price up up up, the other group satartup family, shelter. Let the people decide which grp they belongs to. The point is, if they made wrong decision dont blame the policy maker. Is their own choice , suck it up.
I am sure when market is good many will want an option to top up and become rich (so they want an option that has no downside but only upside .. at the end it is not sustainable)... if governing a country is so easy you won't need LKY to lead us from 3rd world to become first world country
the real test will come in July, let's see how popular is 2r HDB for singles ... cheap cheap 100k only
really don't know what the hell you blabbering :doh:
really? cannot accept the reality? or only want the polarized view?
I am sure when market is good many will want an option to top up and become rich (so they want an option that has no downside but only upside .. at the end it is not sustainable)... if governing a country is so easy you won't need LKY to lead us from 3rd world to become first world country
the real test will come in July, let's see how popular is 2r HDB for singles ... cheap cheap 100k only
precisely, if there is a sure-win, fail-safe option, you can be sure that everyone (the rich, middle class and low-waged) will CHEONG for it and the queue will be longer than that for Mac's Hello Kitty dolls and free McMuffins.
I am sure when market is good many will want an option to top up and become rich (so they want an option that has no downside but only upside .. at the end it is not sustainable)... if governing a country is so easy you won't need LKY to lead us from 3rd world to become first world country
the real test will come in July, let's see how popular is 2r HDB for singles ... cheap cheap 100k only
After they top up with their hard earn $ they are on par with the rest, here comes the risk…Maket fluctuation risk, bubble burst, Ppty price collaps. All this depends on their prediction. If they become rich, everyone is happy.If they made wrong decision, too bad. When market is good and the price is high, there might be more poorer ppl want to take up the socialist housing, there might be people want to sell can profit it.(sustainable). Let the people decide. Their choice, their $, their risk.
precisely, if there is a sure-win, fail-safe option, you can be sure that everyone (the rich, middle class and low-waged) will CHEONG for it and the queue will be longer than that for Mac's Hello Kitty dolls and free McMuffins.
how stupid can u be. Rich and middle class can qualify the wage and income and age requirement specified. wat cock talk is that.
After they top up with their hard earn $ they are on par with the rest, here comes the risk…Maket fluctuation risk, bubble burst, Ppty price collaps. All this depends on their prediction. If they become rich, everyone is happy.If they made wrong decision, too bad. When market is good and the price is high, there might be more poorer ppl want to take up the socialist housing, there might be people want to sell can profit it.(sustainable). Let the people decide. Their choice, their $, their risk.
these group of people, who bought into the low-cost units, need more help from the govt in the beginning. should they, then, be subject to risks that they may be ill-afford to weather? if so, there is then an element of gamble or speculation, which then runs against the principle of having these low costs units again.
how stupid can u be. Rich and middle class can qualify the wage and income and age requirement specified. wat cock talk is that.
WAHAHAHAHA!!! k k, let me have a play of words with u.
LHL once made a statement about "Mee Siam mai hum" on a national day rally. Did he actually mean that he was selling mee siam??
please lah, i can't even be bothered to rubbish your arguments now.
these group of people, who bought into the low-cost units, need more help from the govt in the beginning. should they, then, be subject to risks that they may be ill-afford to weather? if so, there is then an element of gamble or speculation, which then runs against the principle of having these low costs units again.
This group of people can choose not to convert then no need to risk and no upside potential too. This group, I suspect are those young people who newly wed, income still at the low-middle, need to buy milk powder. But once they reach middle age, stable income, they are welcome to join the rewards (come with risk).They can also park their extra cash elsewhere where they deem fit (stock market...) if choose not to convert. I work in Investment field, to me everything with choices are gambling.Eg. marriage, education, having kids, food, accomodation, comodities, socer result, Election result, you name it, we can restruture an investment product for you. Everything can be hedge.
This group of people can choose not to convert then no need to risk and no upside potential too. This group, I suspect are those young people who newly wed, income still at the low-middle, need to buy milk powder. But once they reach middle age, stable income, they are welcome to join the rewards (come with risk).They can also park their extra cash elsewhere where they deem fit (stock market...) if choose not to convert. I work in Investment field, to me everything with choices are gambling.Eg. marriage, education, having kids, food, accomodation, comodities, socer result, Election result, you name it, we can restruture an investment product for you. Everything can be hedge.
let me quote from a real-life example. a couple friend cannot qualify for BTO as combined income is higher than the ceiling. wife quit (made an arrangement with the employer to be reemployed after quiting) at the time of signing documents to circumvent the restriction.
i am sure they aren't the first and they won't be the last. my take is if you want your medicine, you take it and bear all the benefits or bitterness that comes along with it. if these folks want to join in, sell the flat and apply for a normal BTO. these low cost flats can then be sold to those are need it more. afterall, you supposed there is a fix ratio of such units around
let me quote from a real-life example. a couple friend cannot qualify for BTO as combined income is higher than the ceiling. wife quit (made an arrangement with the employer to be reemployed after quiting) at the time of signing documents to circumvent the restriction.
i am sure they aren't the first and they won't be the last. my take is if you want your medicine, you take it and bear all the benefits or bitterness that comes along with it. if these folks want to join in, sell the flat and apply for a normal BTO. these low cost flats can then be sold to those are need it more. afterall, you supposed there is a fix ratio of such units around
Good employer...I think those SME allow that, but not MNC or Financial Institution. Glad they did that and able to get the grand.
Good employer...I think those SME allow that, but not MNC or Financial Institution. Glad they did that and able to get the grand.
wrong, it was a MNC.......
wrong, it was a MNC.......
Very understanding employer...I generally support the idea of finding loopholes/ways and profit from it. Most business work that way. They able to see something that others cant or Dare not. To success, one must have foresight and guts. Your friend got both, bravo. Well done.
Very understanding employer...I generally support the idea of finding loopholes/ways and profit from it. Most business work that way. They able to see something that others cant or Dare not. To success, one must have foresight and guts. Your friend got both, bravo. Well done.
do we want people finding loopholes to worm their way to getting hold of these "sure-win" units, or let those who truly need it obtain a roof over their heads?
do we want people finding loopholes to worm their way to getting hold of these "sure-win" units, or let those who truly need it obtain a roof over their heads?
There no sure-win unit lah…like you said, there is gambling element in it, both sweet and bitter. We have to rewards those who are smart and with guts too, otherwise what is the incentive to be smart and taking the extra risk. Govt can only set a policy that protect the lower income, (Eg, lower tax, grant, incentive, socialist housing). But if the rich/smart able to find their way to outsmart the policy, they should be rewarded. Happy for them. let the Govt set another policy to counter that. When economic crisis, ppty price drop, these are the group try to benefit form it.bravo.
There no sure-win unit lah…like you said, there is gambling element in it, both sweet and bitter. We have to rewards those who are smart and with guts too, otherwise what is the incentive to be smart and taking the extra risk. Govt can only set a policy that protect the lower income, (Eg, lower tax, grant, incentive, socialist housing). But if the rich/smart able to find their way to outsmart the policy, they should be rewarded. Happy for them. let the Govt set another policy to counter that. When economic crisis, ppty price drop, these are the group try to benefit form it.bravo.
it's sure-win to me. i will find a loophole, exploit and get my hand on the unit. quantum low, interest low, sure can pay off in a year or two. sit on it and wait till property cycle hits a low, convert, then sit on and wait.
there, sure-win formula. i essentially transferred all my risk to HDB and by doing so, taxpayers are ultimately picking up the tab.
and please, there is no point talking any more on a scheme that does not even exist. i have already stated my case that it runs against the principle of having low-cost housing and should not exist for cheats to exploit it. wait for HDB to announce the details first
it's sure-win to me. i will find a loophole, exploit and get my hand on the unit. quantum low, interest low, sure can pay off in a year or two. sit on it and wait till property cycle hits a low, convert, then sit on and wait.
there, sure-win formula. i essentially transferred all my risk to HDB and by doing so, taxpayers are ultimately picking up the tab.
and please, there is no point talking any more on a scheme that does not even exist. i have already stated my case that it runs against the principle of having low-cost housing and should not exist for cheats to exploit it. wait for HDB to announce the details first
When I buy shares in the stock market, I always thought I got the shares at the lowest price, until it hit a new low, then I realised I just got F by the market. It will take another cycle to breakeven. Sigh
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