View Full Version : Which Government's service is the worst?
Since last year, I been to hospitals SGH, TTSH, and poly clinics, etc. The average turnaround time including collecting the medicine is 4 horus.
The worst, like the shuttle bus in SGH, the waiting time is 45 minutes.
I had a trigger thumb last Friday, went as private to SGH yesterday, charged me $170, including of 1 min of laser pen treatment and 5 minutest of hot sand treatment. The waiting time at the Specialist clinic was ok as I was a private, and the wait time at the Pharmacy was 1.5 hours.
I was not pleased with the treatment at SGH, so I went to Poly clinic today, the turnaround time is almost 4 hours. Of course, cheap. The young doctor at the Poly clinic was very caring and prescibed me medicine, explained to me the stages of treatment I can receive and risk. Whereas the AP at SGH, just gave me the univeral cream Fastum, and that is.
Last week, at A&E, saw a young PRC woman there for sore throat.
The standard of public medical services is now in hell, badly under-capacity, lack of care. All poly clinics, are flooded with aged and sick.
I grade the public health service is the worst among all.....
Since last year, I been to hospitals SGH, TTSH, and poly clinics, etc. The average turnaround time including collecting the medicine is 4 horus.
The worst, like the shuttle bus in SGH, the waiting time is 45 minutes.
I had a trigger thumb last Friday, went as private to SGH yesterday, charged me $170, including of 1 min of laser pen treatment and 5 minutest of hot sand treatment. The waiting time at the Specialist clinic was ok as I was a private, and the wait time at the Pharmacy was 1.5 hours.
I was not pleased with the treatment at SGH, so I went to Poly clinic today, the turnaround time is almost 4 hours. Of course, cheap. The young doctor at the Poly clinic was very caring and prescibed me medicine, explained to me the stages of treatment I can receive and risk. Whereas the AP at SGH, just gave me the univeral cream Fastum, and that is.
Last week, at A&E, saw a young PRC woman there for sore throat.
The standard of public medical services is now in hell, badly under-capacity, lack of care. All poly clinics, are flooded with aged and sick.
I grade the public health service is the worst among all.....
The service will get worse and price of treatment will increase. Time to register yourself for Afiniti and Avira projects to enjoy wellness.
thomastansb
27-03-13, 16:35
I rate transport as the worst and healthcare as 2nd worst.
It maybe better service to go acrossborder in jb to attend private hosp service.
the popular TCM I go to in my neighborhood is worst. wait for 3hrs before can see the TCM guy. so which is worst?
Different people have to different needs, so worst may be due to individual circumstances?
I heard people say public transport is the worst! Always breakdown, and for more than half a day some more!
I heard people say Singapore's education has become worst ever! What democracy and justice is there when GEP kids based on scoring on P3 exams can go straight to Best Sec School via DSA (don't need to see their PSLE results and don't need to compete fairly based on their PSLE results for entrance into best Sec School) and then the best Sec Schools are now IP schools and don't have to compete using "O" level results again to get into best JC! Wow! 1 P3 exams determined them no competition for next 9 years until they take their A level exams! What's more, the GEP kids are supposed to be cleverest kids need small class size of about 20 students to 1 teacher vs lousy kids grouped into class of 40+ students to 1 teacher! :doh: Who are the ones who implemented GEP and IP schools and give these GEP kids all the super priority without needing to compete fairly? These people complaining say they deserve to be shot!
Since last year, I been to hospitals SGH, TTSH, and poly clinics, etc. The average turnaround time including collecting the medicine is 4 horus.
The worst, like the shuttle bus in SGH, the waiting time is 45 minutes.
I had a trigger thumb last Friday, went as private to SGH yesterday, charged me $170, including of 1 min of laser pen treatment and 5 minutest of hot sand treatment. The waiting time at the Specialist clinic was ok as I was a private, and the wait time at the Pharmacy was 1.5 hours.
I was not pleased with the treatment at SGH, so I went to Poly clinic today, the turnaround time is almost 4 hours. Of course, cheap. The young doctor at the Poly clinic was very caring and prescibed me medicine, explained to me the stages of treatment I can receive and risk. Whereas the AP at SGH, just gave me the univeral cream Fastum, and that is.
Last week, at A&E, saw a young PRC woman there for sore throat.
The standard of public medical services is now in hell, badly under-capacity, lack of care. All poly clinics, are flooded with aged and sick.
I grade the public health service is the worst among all.....
phantom_opera
27-03-13, 20:45
the popular TCM I go to in my neighborhood is worst. wait for 3hrs before can see the TCM guy. so which is worst?
this TCM doc must be good so u cannot complain ... demand & supply
Ya lor they are not publish service. TCM is private, you think you need to wait very long then don't go la.
You have no choice but have to go public health service if you have no money for private. Public health service is supposed to serve the public at very affordable price. Nobody complains about private, the most is don't go private as you already paid premium to expect good services. If no good, don't go.
this TCM doc must be good so u cannot complain ... demand & supply
Different people have to different needs, so worst may be due to individual circumstances?
I heard people say public transport is the worst! Always breakdown, and for more than half a day some more!
I heard people say Singapore's education has become worst ever! What democracy and justice is there when GEP kids based on scoring on P3 exams can go straight to Best Sec School via DSA (don't need to see their PSLE results and don't need to compete fairly based on their PSLE results for entrance into best Sec School) and then the best Sec Schools are now IP schools and don't have to compete using "O" level results again to get into best JC! Wow! 1 P3 exams determined them no competition for next 9 years until they take their A level exams! What's more, the GEP kids are supposed to be cleverest kids need small class size of about 20 students to 1 teacher vs lousy kids grouped into class of 40+ students to 1 teacher! :doh: Who are the ones who implemented GEP and IP schools and give these GEP kids all the super priority without needing to compete fairly? These people complaining say they deserve to be shot!
I suppose your kids are not in GEP?
What has this got to do with whether my kid is in GEP or not?
Just use crow sense not even common sense, also can't figure out any sense:doh:
You mean all GEP parents think that their kids are so smart that their kids deserve all the privileges and benefits as opposed to other normal kids since serve them right that they are less mortal?
You will be surprised that some GEP parents also do not think so but play by the rules as they don't want their kids to be deprived.:o Just can't bear to see the kids have no childhood nowadays.
Of course, some think so la.
I suppose your kids are not in GEP?
What has this got to do with whether my kid is in GEP or not?
Just use crow sense not even common sense, also can't figure out any sense:doh:
You mean all GEP parents think that their kids are so smart that their kids deserve all the privileges and benefits as opposed to other normal kids since serve them right that they are less mortal?
You will be surprised that some GEP parents also do not think so but play by the rules as they don't want their kids to be deprived.:o Just can't bear to see the kids have no childhood nowadays.
Of course, some think so la.
Juz curious which group of parent will u be as above if ur kids r smart enough to b in GEP?
Regulators
28-03-13, 00:56
worst jobs are carpark attendants, everyone looks at them with scorn lol
need to ask? of coz the taxman lah!
When they created jobs like Minister Mentor, Minister without Portfolio . . . service who, what? Mentoring full time? No portfolio? We have many firsts in the world. But the most inefficient is People's Association hands-down. Claim to be non-government but only do things for govt benefit. Organises events that people only come for goodie bags.
Since last year, I been to hospitals SGH, TTSH, and poly clinics, etc. The average turnaround time including collecting the medicine is 4 horus.
The worst, like the shuttle bus in SGH, the waiting time is 45 minutes.
I had a trigger thumb last Friday, went as private to SGH yesterday, charged me $170, including of 1 min of laser pen treatment and 5 minutest of hot sand treatment. The waiting time at the Specialist clinic was ok as I was a private, and the wait time at the Pharmacy was 1.5 hours.
I was not pleased with the treatment at SGH, so I went to Poly clinic today, the turnaround time is almost 4 hours. Of course, cheap. The young doctor at the Poly clinic was very caring and prescibed me medicine, explained to me the stages of treatment I can receive and risk. Whereas the AP at SGH, just gave me the univeral cream Fastum, and that is.
Last week, at A&E, saw a young PRC woman there for sore throat.
The standard of public medical services is now in hell, badly under-capacity, lack of care. All poly clinics, are flooded with aged and sick.
I grade the public health service is the worst among all.....
my advise is never go to public hospitals as a private patient. there is no demarcation between A class and C class patients in terms of priority or service treatment. this is simply because public healthcare infrastructure was never geared towards treating the few rich but the commoners (and the situation of overstrained capacity was caused by the policies implemented by the buffon - Lim Hng Kiang)
phantom_opera
28-03-13, 08:58
ST forum said dental must wait 1.5y ... by then tooth also come out by itself liao lol
Singapore spends bare minimum on healthcare so more money goes to Temasek/GIC to secure our future ... LKY hard truth
ST forum said dental must wait 1.5y ... by then tooth also come out by itself liao lol
Singapore spends bare minimum on healthcare so more money goes to Temasek/GIC to secure our future ... LKY hard truth
It is mysterious where the money from land sales, surpluses and returns from Temasek/GIC go to.
My record waiting time at SGH was a 4hrs wait at the specialist clinic. Appointment given was 1:30pm but waited till 5:30pm to see the doc.
But I thought recently, the waiting time for specialist clinics has improved tremendously. Had my last few rounds of visit at TTSH specialist clinic. Each wait was not more than 5 min (from my given appointment time) to see my specialist. But to get the 1st appointment date is like a 3-mth wait...
ST forum said dental must wait 1.5y ... by then tooth also come out by itself liao lol
Singapore spends bare minimum on healthcare so more money goes to Temasek/GIC to secure our future ... LKY hard truth
SHHHHHH!!!!! later ISD invite you lim kopi :scared-3:
back to dental, PTTUUUUIIIII!!!! had a tooth fracture years back and needed to do an emergency crowning, so called national dental centre.
guess what?! NO staff price, have to wait for months (imagine this for an emergency) and the cost quoted is higher than what private dental clinics charge (by $100-200)
I was told that, not sure how true it is
Even in name you have a Professor to operate on you, but in the OT, you could be ended up in someone else's hands
govt has a purpose.
the bad service in healthcare is to encourage us to take care of own health better.
SHHHHHH!!!!! later ISD invite you lim kopi :scared-3:
back to dental, PTTUUUUIIIII!!!! had a tooth fracture years back and needed to do an emergency crowning, so called national dental centre.
guess what?! NO staff price, have to wait for months (imagine this for an emergency) and the cost quoted is higher than what private dental clinics charge (by $100-200)
For NUH dental, if it is an emergency, you can turn up without appt as a "walk in" patient and you will be attended to. I am not sure of the procedure for SGH but I suspect it's the same.
Agree that for their "routine" appts, you have to wait for weeks/months, depending on the dept. But I am a satisfied customer as I need the services of their specialists and I think the prices charged by the specialists is reasonable overall.
govt has a purpose.
the bad service in healthcare is to encourage us to take care of own health better.
This also makes a healthy market for the private hospitals and clinics. :o
A lot of people are mistaken. Most of our hospitals are run privately:
http://www.moh.gov.sg/content/moh_web/home/our_healthcare_system/Healthcare_Services/Hospitals.html
This piece of news is still new!
They just updated 5 days ago but do not know which has been udpated!
How come they didn't make announcement?
So, do we have public hospitals in Singapore?
I help you to paste here:
Hospital Services
In 2006, there were a total of about 11,545 hospital beds in the 29 hospitals and speciality centres in Singapore, giving a ratio of 2.6 beds per 1,000 total population. About 72% of the beds are in the 13 public hospitals and speciality centres with bed complements between 185 to 2,064 beds. On the other hand, the 16 private hospitals tend to be smaller, with capacity ranging from 20 to 505 beds. The Government's role as the dominant health care provider allows the Government to influence the supply of hospital beds, the introduction of high-tech/high-cost medicine, and the rate of cost increases in the public sector which sets the bench mark in terms of pricing for the private sector.
The 8 public hospitals comprise 6 acute general hospitals (SGH, NUH, CGH, TTSH, KTPH & AH), a women's and children's hospital (KKH) and a psychiatry hospital (IMH). The general hospitals provide multi-disciplinary acute inpatient and specialist outpatient services and a 24-hour emergency department. In addition, there are 6 national specialty centres for cancer, cardiac, eye, skin, neuroscience and dental care.
Within the public hospitals, patients have a choice of the different types of ward accommodation on their admission. 80% of the public hospitals' beds (class B2 and C) are heavily subsidised with the remaining 20% with lower subsidy at 20% for class B1 and no subsidy for A class wards. In Jun 2006, the average length of stay in the acute care hospitals is about 4.7 days while the average occupancy rate is around 75%.
The Government has restructured all its 14 acute hospitals and speciality centres to be run as private companies wholly-owned by the government. This is to enable the restructured hospitals to have the management autonomy and flexibility to respond more promptly to the needs of the patients. In the process, commercial accounting systems have been introduced, providing a more accurate picture of the operating costs and instilling greater financial discipline and accountability. The restructured hospitals are different from the other private hospitals in that they receive an annual government subvention or subsidy for the provision of subsidised medical services to the patients. They are to be managed like not-for-profit organisations. The restructured hospitals are subject to broad policy guidance by the Government through the Ministry of Health.
The Government has also introduced community hospitals for intermediate healthcare for the convalescent sick and aged who do not require the care of the general hospitals.
Last updated on 22 Mar 2013
A lot of people are mistaken. Most of our hospitals are run privately:
http://www.moh.gov.sg/content/moh_web/home/our_healthcare_system/Healthcare_Services/Hospitals.html
A lot of people are mistaken. Most of our hospitals are run privately:
http://www.moh.gov.sg/content/moh_web/home/our_healthcare_system/Healthcare_Services/Hospitals.html
eh, that's just another failed legacy of lim hng kiang. our pay is pegged to the civil service even though we have a "pte ltd" on our company registration. we don't have a free rein and have to take cue from MoH
What has this got to do with whether my kid is in GEP or not?
Just use crow sense not even common sense, also can't figure out any sense:doh:
You mean all GEP parents think that their kids are so smart that their kids deserve all the privileges and benefits as opposed to other normal kids since serve them right that they are less mortal?
You will be surprised that some GEP parents also do not think so but play by the rules as they don't want their kids to be deprived.:o Just can't bear to see the kids have no childhood nowadays.
Of course, some think so la.
Hahaha.... this is a simple and obvious case of jealousy.
You won't be spouting this nonsense if your kids are in GEP. :doh:
Nonsense? :doh:
So you are telling us that:
1) a P3 exam can tell whether a person is gifted?
2) a P3 exam can determine that a student can be exempted from all future fair competition for the best schools and this is fair, equitable, and democratic?
3) a GEP students are so good that they need a 20:1 students:teacher ratio while a normal kids can learn well with a 40+:1 students:teacher ratio?
The answers to above are very obvious. So, the education system are terribly screwed!
My comments has nothing with jealous or not, but putting a fair statements to ask the govt & MOE to really practise equality, fairness, and democracy in their implemented policies. People who are objecting to calls for equality and fairness are, well, we know what kind of characters you are. :scared-2:
Hahaha.... this is a simple and obvious case of jealousy.
You won't be spouting this nonsense if your kids are in GEP. :doh:
govt has a purpose.
the bad service in healthcare is to encourage us to take care of own health better.
:) like your humour
Since last year, I been to hospitals SGH, TTSH, and poly clinics, etc. The average turnaround time including collecting the medicine is 4 horus.
The worst, like the shuttle bus in SGH, the waiting time is 45 minutes.
I had a trigger thumb last Friday, went as private to SGH yesterday, charged me $170, including of 1 min of laser pen treatment and 5 minutest of hot sand treatment. The waiting time at the Specialist clinic was ok as I was a private, and the wait time at the Pharmacy was 1.5 hours.
I was not pleased with the treatment at SGH, so I went to Poly clinic today, the turnaround time is almost 4 hours. Of course, cheap. The young doctor at the Poly clinic was very caring and prescibed me medicine, explained to me the stages of treatment I can receive and risk. Whereas the AP at SGH, just gave me the univeral cream Fastum, and that is.
Last week, at A&E, saw a young PRC woman there for sore throat.
The standard of public medical services is now in hell, badly under-capacity, lack of care. All poly clinics, are flooded with aged and sick.
I grade the public health service is the worst among all.....The long wait time is largely due to the following 2 factors...
1. Insufficient hospitals and medical facilities. This is long overdue. Like MRT breakdown. There is a lack of anticipation for the huge increase in population thus MRT breakdown (of course plus a list of other reasons). Here, Singapore is a fast aging population. This is an age old knowledge but only until this year did the govt promise to build another 3 hospitals (or is it 4?) and XX polyclinics. Same scenario for the construction of the NS highway to run parallel with CTE. Long overdue. Jam like crazy over the last 10 years at CTE. Only using ERP to control that stretch of traffic and pushing vehicles to other roads. Increase in population would inevitably cause an increase in car ownership (and did they only know it recently?) but only after things have ballooned was remediation action taken.... sigh! Don't get me started on HDB undersupply... Only when KBW took over did he propose to build, build and build. Recently he even said its ok to have a bit of oversupply to control HDB prices (bravo). Such a trend is ever so prevalent in our country, isn't it? This, my friend, is what they call 'fire-fighting'. No fire no need to fight lah...
2. Lack of medical practitioners, whether doctors or pharmacists alike. No choice therefore hire many foreigners. Well I must admit that some foreign doctors are pretty good though! If a doctor is inexperienced (as all new doctors will be as new doctors are brought in every other month to meet the ever increasing demand for them), they would inevitably take a longer time to diagnose or prescribe the appropriate medication or carry out various medical procedures. Such an unfortunate situation is probably here to stay for some time to come.
Btw, some of my colleagues mentioned that SGH is nothing more than a high class polyclinic. :cheers5:
While Singapore may not have many violent crimes, riots, natural disaster etc. our quality of living has deteriorated a lot. We are highly constrained by our land size. Don't increase population we will die, increase population we also die. This island is not sustainable for the quality of living we initially envisage. The red passport is just something slightly more than a long term working VISA. It will be a struggle to retire here for an average person in the next 10-20 years.
This island is getting more and more like Monoco.
While Singapore may not have many violent crimes, riots, natural disaster etc. our quality of living has deteriorated a lot. We are highly constrained by our land size. Don't increase population we will die, increase population we also die. This island is not sustainable for the quality of living we initially envisage. The red passport is just something slightly more than a long term working VISA. It will be a struggle to retire here for an average person in the next 10-20 years.
phantom_opera
28-03-13, 23:58
Nonsense? :doh:
So you are telling us that:
1) a P3 exam can tell whether a person is gifted?
2) a P3 exam can determine that a student can be exempted from all future fair competition for the best schools and this is fair, equitable, and democratic?
3) a GEP students are so good that they need a 20:1 students:teacher ratio while a normal kids can learn well with a 40+:1 students:teacher ratio?
The answers to above are very obvious. So, the education system are terribly screwed!
My comments has nothing with jealous or not, but putting a fair statements to ask the govt & MOE to really practise equality, fairness, and democracy in their implemented policies. People who are objecting to calls for equality and fairness are, well, we know what kind of characters you are. :scared-2:
agree with u .... smart yes, genius or gifted too early to judge at P3
phantom_opera
29-03-13, 00:00
While Singapore may not have many violent crimes, riots, natural disaster etc. our quality of living has deteriorated a lot. We are highly constrained by our land size. Don't increase population we will die, increase population we also die. This island is not sustainable for the quality of living we initially envisage. The red passport is just something slightly more than a long term working VISA. It will be a struggle to retire here for an average person in the next 10-20 years.
that's why must hold your properties tight tight ... never sell if return does not match 20y of gross rentals :tsk-tsk:
Logic, what logic you have?
If I said, I think they should also scrap PSLE and foundation banding at P4 altogether, does that also mean that I was jealous? or my kid is doing badly in school? :doh:
Spare a thought for the children now, they are deprived of playing, sleeping and having a decent childhood. To me, this is like abusing children. Why a young child pays for bad education system here?
Many people are abusing the kids without even knowing it.:scared-1:
Hahaha.... this is a simple and obvious case of jealousy.
You won't be spouting this nonsense if your kids are in GEP. :doh:
There you go again....
First of all... I didn't say the education system is good.
I was referring to your constant bitching about GEP thoughout... not just on this thread but several others.
Its obvious your kid/s didn't get in. Now.... this doesn't mean they are doing badly in school. In fact they may be even doing better academically than kids in GEP. But they just did not possess that extra spark that GEP is looking for.
Many parents in Singapore forget that GEP is not mainsteam... they are one-offs... a mere 1-2% of the cohort. Does it mean they are good students? Of course not! But they do have a quality that MOE is looking for in their GEP classes (whatever they may be rightfully or not)
It is exactly your competitive and kiasu behaviour that is so typical of most Singaporeans... While you spout your nonsense... you also harbour a desire for your child to go RI or Hwa Chong.
I am certain if your child is in GEP and got a though train ticket DSA all the way to Cambridge or Harvard.. you won't be bitching.
It is an obvious case of sour grapes.
Logic, what logic you have?
If I said, I think they should also scrap PSLE and foundation banding at P4 altogether, does that also mean that I was jealous? or my kid is doing badly in school? :doh:
Spare a thought for the children now, they are deprived of playing, sleeping and having a decent childhood. To me, this is like abusing children. Why a young child pays for bad education system here?
Many people are abusing the kids without even knowing it.:scared-1:
Nonsense? :doh:
So you are telling us that:
1) a P3 exam can tell whether a person is gifted?
2) a P3 exam can determine that a student can be exempted from all future fair competition for the best schools and this is fair, equitable, and democratic?
3) a GEP students are so good that they need a 20:1 students:teacher ratio while a normal kids can learn well with a 40+:1 students:teacher ratio?
The answers to above are very obvious. So, the education system are terribly screwed!
My comments has nothing with jealous or not, but putting a fair statements to ask the govt & MOE to really practise equality, fairness, and democracy in their implemented policies. People who are objecting to calls for equality and fairness are, well, we know what kind of characters you are. :scared-2:
Answers
1) Yes
2) No
3) What's the question?
Wrt fairness... it is very meritocratic. Its very fair, if you produce the results and have the qualities the school wants, you are in.
The qualities can be academic, athletic, artistic or music. As long as you have what the school wants, you are in.... GEP or not.
However, of course for DSA everyone has to take a GAT (General Ability Test) plus an interview. For GEPers worth their salt, they tend to do well in the GAT. If not, they are out... DSA for GEP into the top schools is not automatic.
Why don't you complain about the non-academic DSA? who don't do as well in their GAT but still get in?... You know why?... because you are jealous of the GEPers.
The school decides on what type of students they want to admit. Be they GEPers, athletes or musicians... the school also decides what GAT scores is acceptable for the various "talents". (BTW, mainstream students can also apply for DSA academic like the GEPers too)
The school knows what kind of mix they want for their school GEPers or not. If your child cannot get into RI or Hwachong... by whatever way... that means the school doesn't want him/her. Just get over it... why are Singaporeans so hard-up about getting into these top schools?
The schools certainly know what they are doing. Because they keep producing stellar results.
Logic, what logic you have?
If I said, I think they should also scrap PSLE and foundation banding at P4 altogether, does that also mean that I was jealous? or my kid is doing badly in school? :doh:
Spare a thought for the children now, they are deprived of playing, sleeping and having a decent childhood. To me, this is like abusing children. Why a young child pays for bad education system here?
Many people are abusing the kids without even knowing it.:scared-1:
Teddy - nothing is fair. You just try your best to groom the talents in your children and inculcate good values in them. After decades of GEP, we still didn't produce a single Nobel Prize winner or truly notable MNC*, this speaks volume about the limitations of GEP's philosophy and education model.
* Creative came close but...
Our children in Singapore will never be very creative!! not even 100 years with current system!
You know why? Because the system does not allow them to have sufficient time to digest n enjoy learning but demand a very high standard of expectation for them to meet in very short time frame at very young age. Many children resort to rote learning or having tutor to get quick fix. Very sad, right?
You thought about inculcate good value, that is another very sad area. The whole society is getting very competitive that is no longer a very healthy and we are basically producing a robot with little empathy. I looked at our so called top brains in RI and HCI, many of them tried to out smart their peers at all costs. We are no longer seeing that type of gentlemen' healthy competition among them. Basically, the stupid education system here do not have program to inculcate good values in our children or giving them some room to shape them. Of course, u can always say parents also play a part. However, the children are soaking their heads into book all the time now with very little time for interaction with family members!:eek:
Btw, the MNC model is not a creative piece of work come out by our people! It's inspired la. :tongue3: Hahaha..
Teddy - nothing is fair. You just try your best to groom the talents in your children and inculcate good values in them. After decades of GEP, we still didn't produce a single Nobel Prize winner or truly notable MNC*, this speaks volume about the limitations of GEP's philosophy and education model.
* Creative came close but...
There you go again....
First of all... I didn't say the education system is good.
I was referring to your constant bitching about GEP thoughout... not just on this thread but several others.
Its obvious your kid/s didn't get in. Now.... this doesn't mean they are doing badly in school. In fact they may be even doing better academically than kids in GEP. But they just did not possess that extra spark that GEP is looking for.
Many parents in Singapore forget that GEP is not mainsteam... they are one-offs... a mere 1-2% of the cohort. Does it mean they are good students? Of course not! But they do have a quality that MOE is looking for in their GEP classes (whatever they may be rightfully or not)
It is exactly your competitive and kiasu behaviour that is so typical of most Singaporeans... While you spout your nonsense... you also harbour a desire for your child to go RI or Hwa Chong.
I am certain if your child is in GEP and got a though train ticket DSA all the way to Cambridge or Harvard.. you won't be bitching.
It is an obvious case of sour grapes.
well said!!!!!!!
There you goes again.
The way you are saying is that people are jealous and didn't benefit from policies that is why they are saying bad things about policies etc? I can only say that in your mind, there is no people who can be fair and stand out for justice and equality, and that is a state of affairs of people in Singapore now. They have no heart, like a walking corpse. They only think about themselves, and believe that people make remarks based on their own personal benefits, and not for the wellness of the society and the country as a whole (and you yourself from you comments is a very good example). Are you saying also that govt policies implemented are also biased based on the benefits the policy-makers can derive? Only in that way than your statement holds. I hope that!
So you are saying that same as properties, many Miss-the-boat people complaining, including about HDB flats too expensive because they are incapable to afford and hence complaining? If that is the case, why is MND Khaw & MAS coming out all the property cooling measures? They must have been very stupid to listen to them just because they are jealous and keep complaining?
Quality that MOE looks for? What has quality MOE looks for to do with:
1) requiring half the students to teacher ratio (about 20:1) in GEP schools when normal schools can do well with 40+:1 students to teacher ratio.
2) What has those quality to do with giving them priority and privilege with DSA into most popular secondary schools without even needing to compete fairly based on PSLE results?
3) What has those quality to do with giving them priority and privilege with to get into most popular JCs without even needing to compete fairly based on GCE "O" level results?
Priority and privilege and unfair treatments (eg. 20:1 student to teacher ratio) given to GEP students are not fair and equitable.
I see you are talking about "meritocratic" about GEP system for GEP students. This is the most hypocratic comments of all! You are advocating that by allowing GEP students to DON'T NEED to compete fairly on PSLE and "O" level exams results for priority entry into most popular Sec Schools and JCs is "meritocratic"? I thought "meritocratic" in terms of admission into academic schools should be on their results and not because they are labelled "GEP" students? :doh:
There you go again....
First of all... I didn't say the education system is good.
I was referring to your constant bitching about GEP thoughout... not just on this thread but several others.
Its obvious your kid/s didn't get in. Now.... this doesn't mean they are doing badly in school. In fact they may be even doing better academically than kids in GEP. But they just did not possess that extra spark that GEP is looking for.
Many parents in Singapore forget that GEP is not mainsteam... they are one-offs... a mere 1-2% of the cohort. Does it mean they are good students? Of course not! But they do have a quality that MOE is looking for in their GEP classes (whatever they may be rightfully or not)
It is exactly your competitive and kiasu behaviour that is so typical of most Singaporeans... While you spout your nonsense... you also harbour a desire for your child to go RI or Hwa Chong.
I am certain if your child is in GEP and got a though train ticket DSA all the way to Cambridge or Harvard.. you won't be bitching.
It is an obvious case of sour grapes.
Response to your comments:
1) Who say based on a P3 Exams can determine that a person is "gifted"?
2) So you are saying that "a P3 exam can determine that a student can be exempted from all future fair competition for the best schools and this is fair, equitable, and democratic"?
I see you are talking about "meritocratic" about GEP system for GEP students. This is the most hypocratic comments of all! You are advocating that by allowing GEP students to DON'T NEED to compete fairly on PSLE and "O" level exams results for priority entry into most popular Sec Schools and JCs is "meritocratic"? I thought "meritocratic" in terms of admission into academic schools should be on their results and not because they are labelled "GEP" students? :doh:
As usual, with people like you, when I comments on GEP problems and you can't give a good reply, you try to diverge attention and topic and say why I never comment on "non-academic DSA". How do you know I have no issue with that? Let's stay focused on discussing on 1 topic at a time:
****** That is, GEP system and current treatments of GEP students (vs normal students) are not fair, not equitable, and violates Singapore National Pledge of trying to build a democratic society based on justice and equality.
Also, after the GEP system has been around for 30 years, the GEP students after getting so much privilege and unfair advantage and treatment (and significant additional resources and tax-payers money delicated to them vs very much less for normal students) has not resulted in better prosperity, progress, and happiness for the nation, it is time to scrape it. If the authority believes otherwise, please ask them to show data including achievements and name names of these previous GEP students who have contributed significantly to Singapore and Singapore's society. There are about 500 GEP students a year, over 30 years means there should abundance number of names for them to name if what they believe is true.
In case you forgot about Singapore's National Pledge and hence sprouting non-sense here, please go and memorise the below:
The Singapore's National Pledge is:
We, the citizens of Singapore,
pledge ourselves as one united people,
regardless of race, language or religion,
to build a democratic society
based on justice and equality
so as to achieve happiness, prosperity and
progress for our nation.
Answers
1) Yes
2) No
3) What's the question?
Wrt fairness... it is very meritocratic. Its very fair, if you produce the results and have the qualities the school wants, you are in.
The qualities can be academic, athletic, artistic or music. As long as you have what the school wants, you are in.... GEP or not.
However, of course for DSA everyone has to take a GAT (General Ability Test) plus an interview. For GEPers worth their salt, they tend to do well in the GAT. If not, they are out... DSA for GEP into the top schools is not automatic.
Why don't you complain about the non-academic DSA? who don't do as well in their GAT but still get in?... You know why?... because you are jealous of the GEPers.
The school decides on what type of students they want to admit. Be they GEPers, athletes or musicians... the school also decides what GAT scores is acceptable for the various "talents". (BTW, mainstream students can also apply for DSA academic like the GEPers too)
The school knows what kind of mix they want for their school GEPers or not. If your child cannot get into RI or Hwachong... by whatever way... that means the school doesn't want him/her. Just get over it... why are Singaporeans so hard-up about getting into these top schools?
The schools certainly know what they are doing. Because they keep producing stellar results.
Teddy - nothing is fair. You just try your best to groom the talents in your children and inculcate good values in them. After decades of GEP, we still didn't produce a single Nobel Prize winner or truly notable MNC*, this speaks volume about the limitations of GEP's philosophy and education model.
* Creative came close but...
The objective of GEP is not to produce Nobel Prize winners.
It is to cater for a particular group of students with a particular intellect. Before GEP, academically talented students who were well ahead of their peers skipped grades. This may have shortened their time in school but did not add any value to their education. They may take PSLE one or two years earlier... but what is the use of that?
Now... again, please remember that this group of students represent only 1-2% of the cohort.
If our education system cannot cater for these 1-2% like other advanced countries.... then some people would say it is not progressive enough. However, when we do cater for them, the typical Singaporean like Teddybear would be jealous if their kids cannot get in.
And then there those parents who "artificially" train their kids to get into GEP... those are even worse.
Fellas.... don't get too caught up in this GEP thingy... live and let live... be easy on yourself and your kids.
Lastly, wrt the Nobel Prize, there are only 6 prizes a year. Since the birth of the Singapore 1965, only 276 Nobel Prizes have been awarded including the Peace Prizes.
In the past 47 years, the world's average population is about 5billion (1965 3.3B - 2012 6.9B), compare this with Singapore's average population 2.5million (1965 1.8M - 2012 3.3M).... statistically based on the number of prizes and percentage to the world population. Singapore is at great odds to achieving a Nobel Prize.
In any case, achieving a Nobel Prize takes more than just the education system. Singaporeans are just too practical. Students who do exceedingly well are inclined to do Medicine, Dentistry or Law.... not for the love of it... but for the potential income.
Wah... so colourful...
Jealous people are angry people....
There you goes again.
The way you are saying is that people are jealous and didn't benefit from policies that is why they are saying bad things about policies etc? I can only say that in your mind, there is no people who can be fair and stand out for justice and equality, and that is a state of affairs of people in Singapore now. They have no heart, like a walking corpse. They only think about themselves, and believe that people make remarks based on their own personal benefits, and not for the wellness of the society and the country as a whole (and you yourself from you comments is a very good example). Are you saying also that govt policies implemented are also biased based on the benefits the policy-makers can derive? Only in that way than your statement holds. I hope that!
So you are saying that same as properties, many Miss-the-boat people complaining, including about HDB flats too expensive because they are incapable to afford and hence complaining? If that is the case, why is MND Khaw & MAS coming out all the property cooling measures? They must have been very stupid to listen to them just because they are jealous and keep complaining?
Quality that MOE looks for? What has quality MOE looks for to do with:
1) requiring half the students to teacher ratio (about 20:1) in GEP schools when normal schools can do well with 40+:1 students to teacher ratio.
2) What has those quality to do with giving them priority and privilege with DSA into most popular secondary schools without even needing to compete fairly based on PSLE results?
3) What has those quality to do with giving them priority and privilege with to get into most popular JCs without even needing to compete fairly based on GCE "O" level results?
Priority and privilege and unfair treatments (eg. 20:1 student to teacher ratio) given to GEP students are not fair and equitable.
I see you are talking about "meritocratic" about GEP system for GEP students. This is the most hypocratic comments of all! You are advocating that by allowing GEP students to DON'T NEED to compete fairly on PSLE and "O" level exams results for priority entry into most popular Sec Schools and JCs is "meritocratic"? I thought "meritocratic" in terms of admission into academic schools should be on their results and not because they are labelled "GEP" students? :doh:
The screening process require specific tests to test for specific qualities. If your child makes the cut then it means he possesses the qualities.
Btw, it is immaterial whether the the child artificially trained for these screenings or is naturally talented. If the child makes it then he is in. But it is unfortunate for the child if he does not have real aptitude... for that ... please blame the parents.
In Singapore, the screening is already more rigid than other countries consisting of 2 stages, an academic portion and a non-verbal reasoning portion. In UK, you can buy books on non-verbal reasoning off the shelves at like say Waterstones, to sharpen your exam chances.
As to whether it is appropriate to have it at P3?... why not? if not P3... then when? I guess for Teddy it is never... since his kids couldn't get in.
It is also unfortunate that the program is called "Gifted...." . Such labels only make people have intense jealousy towards the program.
Response to your comments:
1) Who say based on a P3 Exams can determine that a person is "gifted"?
2) So you are saying that "a P3 exam can determine that a student can be exempted from all future fair competition for the best schools and this is fair, equitable, and democratic"?
I see you are talking about "meritocratic" about GEP system for GEP students. This is the most hypocratic comments of all! You are advocating that by allowing GEP students to DON'T NEED to compete fairly on PSLE and "O" level exams results for priority entry into most popular Sec Schools and JCs is "meritocratic"? I thought "meritocratic" in terms of admission into academic schools should be on their results and not because they are labelled "GEP" students? :doh:
As usual, with people like you, when I comments on GEP problems and you can't give a good reply, you try to diverge attention and topic and say why I never comment on "non-academic DSA". How do you know I have no issue with that? Let's stay focused on discussing on 1 topic at a time:
****** That is, GEP system and current treatments of GEP students (vs normal students) are not fair, not equitable, and violates Singapore National Pledge of trying to build a democratic society based on justice and equality.
Also, after the GEP system has been around for 30 years, the GEP students after getting so much privilege and unfair advantage and treatment (and significant additional resources and tax-payers money delicated to them vs very much less for normal students) has not resulted in better prosperity, progress, and happiness for the nation, it is time to scrape it. If the authority believes otherwise, please ask them to show data including achievements and name names of these previous GEP students who have contributed significantly to Singapore and Singapore's society. There are about 500 GEP students a year, over 30 years means there should abundance number of names for them to name if what they believe is true.
In case you forgot about Singapore's National Pledge and hence sprouting non-sense here, please go and memorise the below:
The Singapore's National Pledge is:
We, the citizens of Singapore,
pledge ourselves as one united people,
regardless of race, language or religion,
to build a democratic society
based on justice and equality
so as to achieve happiness, prosperity and
progress for our nation.
Hahaha!
I'm a happy person and like loud colours! People here know that loud colours are the typical colours that I like to use.:D
That's all you can come out? Can't find a good reason to hold your point? :tongue3:
Here you go again! What logic is it? When people stated the obvious such as injustice and inequity, you started to say others' jealous. Typical of some GEP parents that I have seen many in GEP class....
Also, they themselves sent their GEP kids for tuition and still denying..when spotted in one of the popular private class for GEP kid, they said it's not tuition but it's a enrichment class :rolleyes:
Wah... so colourful...
Jealous people are angry people....
Btw Teddy,
Your sense of justice and equality is warped ... either that or you are a naive person.
Your choice of words reveal this.... you say "popular" schools instead of "good" schools. Of course invariably, in Singapore, parents like you equate "popular" with "good".
Acceptance into a school has always been the perogative of the school. Using academic scores are only one of the tools the schools use to assess the suitability of the student. This applies also to all the top UK universities and Ivy Leagues. It is not a competition, and scores alone should not determine everything...
But a typical Singaporean like Teddy would feel shortchanged. Because most Singaporeans want their child be in a "popular" school.... so they can boast to their friends or ask their child to "network" with other students for future benefit.
DSA actually allows the schools to accept specific talents despite the scores. For example, an exceptionally gifted mathematician who does poorly in Chinese will suffer in PSLE. But DSA allows him an avenue to continue to a good school that can enhance his mathematical ability.
Hahaha!
O, Your kids are the trained type to get in:D I also know, how come I know, as I said, majority of kids are trained to get in.
You said it's immaterial whether the the child artificially trained for these screenings or is naturally talented. But this is not MOE said, did you go for the GEP briefing after you kid selected for GEP? GEP branch from MOE said they have never wrong one le. Any above-average kids who have gone through the training, they will get in! All they need to do get exposed to those questions and doing a lot of all those question la..
Why the program should not call "Gifted le" It's consistent with the rest of the countries wa, they also called gifted
The screening process require specific tests to test for specific qualities. If your child makes the cut then it means he possesses the qualities.
Btw, it is immaterial whether the the child artificially trained for these screenings or is naturally talented. If the child makes it then he is in. But it is unfortunate for the child if he does not have real aptitude... for that ... please blame the parents.
I am sure you are not GEP sicne you can't read properly, I never said why to have GEP screening at P3? I said, why you got selected in P3, then you got free rides all the way to JC.. READ properly.
To be fair and live up to the name of meritocracy, They should have the screening every year la if they really want to implement GEP, opportunity should be giving out every year...then only.. those children who are consistently doing very well still maintain, if not, give way to others who are more reserved...
In Singapore, the screening is already more rigid than other countries consisting of 2 stages, an academic portion and a non-verbal reasoning portion. In UK, you can buy books on non-verbal reasoning off the shelves at like say Waterstones, to sharpen your exam chances.
As to whether it is appropriate to have it at P3?... why not? if not P3... then when? I guess for Teddy it is never... since his kids couldn't get in.
It is also unfortunate that the program is called "Gifted...." . Such labels only make people have intense jealousy towards the program.
Yah.... true...
GEP parents are also typical Singaporeans... (unfortunately). Their GEP kids are already at the top of the educational food chain and yet they only feel secure if their kids go for tuition classes.
So now you are starting to see it... it is not so much about the system. Its about the parents.
Why? because its only 1-2% of the cohort, Singapore (like other advanced countries) can certainly tolerate having a GEP program.....
Its about the people and the culture... Singaporeans cannot tolerate it.
Many parents lament that the education system was better last time. But its not true...the education system was not better... the parents were better.
Parents of the 60s and 70s left their kids pretty much to their own... tuition was rare, having a maid was unheard of. Children of those times just developed naturally unlike now...
Hahaha!
I'm a happy person and like loud colours! People here know that loud colours are the typical colours that I like to use.:D
That's all you can come out? Can't find a good reason to hold your point? :tongue3:
Here you go again! What logic is it? When people stated the obvious such as injustice and inequity, you started to say others' jealous. Typical of some GEP parents that I have seen many in GEP class....
Also, they themselves sent their GEP kids for tuition and still denying..when spotted in one of the popular private class for GEP kid, they said it's not tuition but it's a enrichment class :rolleyes:
Eh?.... what makes you say majority are trained to get in?
And what makes you say my kids are trained too..? Why are you so sure my kids are in GEP?... just because I see to be defending it?
In fact... what makes you so sure I have kids in the first place?
Hmmmm...
Hahaha!
O, Your kids are the trained type to get in:D I also know, how come I know, as I said, majority of kids are trained to get in.
You said it's immaterial whether the the child artificially trained for these screenings or is naturally talented. But this is not MOE said, did you go for the GEP briefing after you kid selected for GEP? GEP branch from MOE said they have never wrong one le. Any above-average kids who have gone through the training, they will get in! All they need to do get exposed to those questions and doing a lot of all those question la..
Why the program should not call "Gifted le" It's consistent with the rest of the countries wa, they also called gifted
[1] So, then tell us what is the objective of GEP?
If GEP system is not to produce Nobel Prize winners, to produce people who can contribute significantly to the standing of Singapore, then why have GEP system and spend so much additional resources and tax-payers money on them to the detriment of all other normal students?
So far, many people like us can only see that GEP system only achieved 1 aim: To prove to all Singaporeans that a govt's introduced system can be so screwed up, and so unfair and inequitable, building an undemocratic society, and in the process of specially giving special priority and privilege to these GEP students without them having to compete fairly based on their PSLE results and GCE "O" levels to gain entry in the most popular top sec schools & JCs, tell us that Singapore is not "meritocratic" at all? (at least not in practice?!) (although many like to pay lips service that Singapore is "meritocratic", what Hippocratic they are when actions speak louder than words and tell us otherwise)!
[2] What a load of rubbish indeed. You are telling us that based on a P3 exams of English and Math you can tell whether they have a particular intellect?
What intellect do you think they trying to measure? You mean students good in Chinese and Science cannot have good intellect and hence GEP entry exams do not need to measure "intellect" in Chinese language and Science ability? :doh:
You mean students who perform very well in P4, P5, P6 do not have "intellect" because they have not performed well enough in P3 exams in English and Math? :tongue3:
[3] Again, we see typical "losers" mentality here, that it is Ok to be unfair, inequitable, injustice, undemocratic, because they only benefits a very small number, 1-2%! If a society and country really practices fairness, equality, justice, and meritocracy (instead of lips' service), then not to mention 1-2%, even 1 student given such unfair privilege, priority, backdoor entry without fairly competing with other students based on their standard exams is also a big NO NO, and still constitute unfairness, inequality, injustice, and no-meritocracy at all, not to mention 1-2%!!! :tsk-tsk: If Singapore is indeed unfair, inequality, unjust, undemocratic, then please say so. Don't have to be so hypocrite. Actions speak louder than words, and everybody has eyes to see, ears to hear, you think people nowsdays so stupid and uneducated?! :p
[4] Typical of those people who try to achieve all means to benefit themselves, and when other people point out the facts, they will try to find excuses like you all not so noble, must be because of jealous, blah blah blah. Luckily this world still have many righteous and noble people who believe in fighting for fairness, equality, and real democracy and meritocracy for others, especially the disadvantaged lots. On the other hand, you are the 180 degree opposite of these people. What can we say? :o
I think the above are enough...
[1] The objective of GEP is not to produce Nobel Prize winners.
[2] It is to cater for a particular group of students with a particular intellect. Before GEP, academically talented students who were well ahead of their peers skipped grades. This may have shortened their time in school but did not add any value to their education. They may take PSLE one or two years earlier... but what is the use of that?
[3] Now... again, please remember that this group of students represent only 1-2% of the cohort.
[4] If our education system cannot cater for these 1-2% like other advanced countries.... then some people would say it is not progressive enough. However, when we do cater for them, the typical Singaporean like Teddybear would be jealous if their kids cannot get in.
And then there those parents who "artificially" train their kids to get into GEP... those are even worse.
Fellas.... don't get too caught up in this GEP thingy... live and let live... be easy on yourself and your kids.
Lastly, wrt the Nobel Prize, there are only 6 prizes a year. Since the birth of the Singapore 1965, only 276 Nobel Prizes have been awarded including the Peace Prizes.
In the past 47 years, the world's average population is about 5billion (1965 3.3B - 2012 6.9B), compare this with Singapore's average population 2.5million (1965 1.8M - 2012 3.3M).... statistically based on the number of prizes and percentage to the world population. Singapore is at great odds to achieving a Nobel Prize.
In any case, achieving a Nobel Prize takes more than just the education system. Singaporeans are just too practical. Students who do exceedingly well are inclined to do Medicine, Dentistry or Law.... not for the love of it... but for the potential income.
See, I learnt very fast, and I learnt from you. People who say bad is jealous, those who say good must have been benefiting tremendously from GEP system because they know that their kids cannot perform if they are going to compete fairly using PSLE and/or GCE "O" level exams. They just get burnt out! :p (I know of many such cases. That is why MOE cannot even name names of many successful people who are GEP students!).
Eh?.... what makes you say majority are trained to get in?
And what makes you say my kids are trained too..? Why are you so sure my kids are in GEP?... just because I see to be defending it?
In fact... what makes you so sure I have kids in the first place?
Hmmmm...
So.... finally you are admitting you are jealous
Good for you... well done!
See, I learnt very fast, and I learnt from you. People who say bad is jealous, those who say good must have been benefiting tremendously from GEP system because they know that their kids cannot perform if they are going to compete fairly using PSLE and/or GCE "O" level exams. They just get burnt out! :p (I know of many such cases. That is why MOE cannot even name names of many successful people who are GEP students!).
[1] Now, tell us, which part of my writing can give you make the conclusion that my "sense of justice and equality is warped"?
It is more like When you have no facts to back up your argument, you say people are naive, sense is warped, blah blah blah.
People can see clearly from the facts and arguments put forth, whose sense are warped, who are fighting for their benefits!
[2] Very funny, now you pushing responsibility to the schools? Might as well say it is the schools' perogative to give last priority to PRs and foreigners now instead of MOE's policy! This statement of yours is really "WARPED" indeed!
[3] You trying to blah us people is it?
May be many people don't know, MOE give special additional funding, SBGE, only to selected schools and only given based on number of GEP students these schools admit. So, these top schools will always give preference and priority to admiting GEP students so that they get more funding! So, it is obvious that there are already differential treatment given to GEP students, despite the fact that they don't even gain entry based on how well they did in their PSLE! So, what fairness, equality, and justice in Sec 1 entrance are you people talking about?!
So, all the bullshit/crap about giving normal students who are very good in 1 particular subject but poor in others to gain entry via DSA into good sec schools are just lips' service?
In the first place, GEP entry exam don't even test Chinese and Science, so people good in Chinese and Science but poorer in English and Math are already labelled as not gifted. So now you are saying that DSA give them a chance to get into good sec schools? Can you tell us which Sec Schools give DSA for students who are good in Chinese and Science only? So students who are good in English and Math can only be considered as gifted and labelled as "GEP" and as such they deserve DSA without needing to look at their PSLE results? What a whole load of hypocrite!
Btw Teddy,
[1] Your sense of justice and equality is warped ... either that or you are a naive person.
Your choice of words reveal this.... you say "popular" schools instead of "good" schools. Of course invariably, in Singapore, parents like you equate "popular" with "good".
[2] Acceptance into a school has always been the perogative of the school. Using academic scores are only one of the tools the schools use to assess the suitability of the student. This applies also to all the top UK universities and Ivy Leagues. It is not a competition, and scores alone should not determine everything...
But a typical Singaporean like Teddy would feel shortchanged. Because most Singaporeans want their child be in a "popular" school.... so they can boast to their friends or ask their child to "network" with other students for future benefit.
[3] DSA actually allows the schools to accept specific talents despite the scores. For example, an exceptionally gifted mathematician who does poorly in Chinese will suffer in PSLE. But DSA allows him an avenue to continue to a good school that can enhance his mathematical ability.
Please highlight which part of my writing where I say I admit that I am jealous?
Finally, you give us evidence that your sense is really warped! You can say things that doesn't existed and distort what other people wrote.
You are really il"logic"al indeed. No wonder you call yourself "logic", to remind yourself to practice "logic" frequently?
So.... finally you are admitting you are jealous
Good for you... well done!
Originally Posted by teddybear
See, I learnt very fast, and I learnt from you. People who say bad is jealous, those who say good must have been benefiting tremendously from GEP system because they know that their kids cannot perform if they are going to compete fairly using PSLE and/or GCE "O" level exams. They just get burnt out! :p (I know of many such cases. That is why MOE cannot even name names of many successful people who are GEP students!).
I hope my answers are satisfactory.
1. Each student should be developed to their fullest potential. If you can identify a child to be academically gifted why not develop the child with a specialised program if the system can afford it?
well... if the system can't afford it... its a different story ...then we may have to prioritise and maybe GEP can be shoved aside but if the system can afford it, shouldn't we?
2. Mathematics is the most neutral subject suitable for determining intellect, there are no new topics and the test topics are those they have learnt before.. like addition and subtraction. But at a more intense level... many would wonder how difficult can addition and subtraction be.... well you would be surprised.
English proficiency is required in order to be able to follow the class as it is the medium of instruction. However, an exceptional Math score can override a mediocre English score.
Science at P3 does not measure intellect but knowledge. A bright but underexposed child may lose out.
Chinese is a subject but not a medium of intruction.
3. Everyone takes the PSLE. It is one of the tools to measure the child's suitability for the school. For certain schools, they have additional tests called GAT to further refine the selection process. The GAT is actually more demanding than the PSLE and is taken before the PSLE... so a child can qualify for a school even before PSLE if he does well for the GAT. But that is not the end of it... the child still needs to meet minimum PSLE score requirements.
4. You wrote a lot rubbish.... but what is your question?
[1] So, then tell us what is the objective of GEP?
If GEP system is not to produce Nobel Prize winners, to produce people who can contribute significantly to the standing of Singapore, then why have GEP system and spend so much additional resources and tax-payers money on them to the detriment of all other normal students?
So far, many people like us can only see that GEP system only achieved 1 aim: To prove to all Singaporeans that a govt's introduced system can be so screwed up, and so unfair and inequitable, building an undemocratic society, and in the process of specially giving special priority and privilege to these GEP students without them having to compete fairly based on their PSLE results and GCE "O" levels to gain entry in the most popular top sec schools & JCs, tell us that Singapore is not "meritocratic" at all? (at least not in practice?!) (although many like to pay lips service that Singapore is "meritocratic", what Hippocratic they are when actions speak louder than words and tell us otherwise)!
[2] What a load of rubbish indeed. You are telling us that based on a P3 exams of English and Math you can tell whether they have a particular intellect?
What intellect do you think they trying to measure? You mean students good in Chinese and Science cannot have good intellect and hence GEP entry exams do not need to measure "intellect" in Chinese language and Science ability? :doh:
You mean students who perform very well in P4, P5, P6 do not have "intellect" because they have not performed well enough in P3 exams in English and Math? :tongue3:
[3] Again, we see typical "losers" mentality here, that it is Ok to be unfair, inequitable, injustice, undemocratic, because they only benefits a very small number, 1-2%! If a society and country really practices fairness, equality, justice, and meritocracy (instead of lips' service), then not to mention 1-2%, even 1 student given such unfair privilege, priority, backdoor entry without fairly competing with other students based on their standard exams is also a big NO NO, and still constitute unfairness, inequality, injustice, and no-meritocracy at all, not to mention 1-2%!!! :tsk-tsk: If Singapore is indeed unfair, inequality, unjust, undemocratic, then please say so. Don't have to be so hypocrite. Actions speak louder than words, and everybody has eyes to see, ears to hear, you think people nowsdays so stupid and uneducated?! :p
[4] Typical of those people who try to achieve all means to benefit themselves, and when other people point out the facts, they will try to find excuses like you all not so noble, must be because of jealous, blah blah blah. Luckily this world still have many righteous and noble people who believe in fighting for fairness, equality, and real democracy and meritocracy for others, especially the disadvantaged lots. On the other hand, you are the 180 degree opposite of these people. What can we say? :o
I think the above are enough...
This is called inference... from your passages
good = benefit, bad = jealous
Ok... you didn't say it I inferred it... haha... but its so obvious you are jealous... hahaha..
Please highlight which part of my writing where I say I admit that I am jealous?
Finally, you give us evidence that your sense is really warped! You can say things that doesn't existed and distort what other people wrote.
You are really il"logic"al indeed. No wonder you call yourself "logic", to remind yourself to practice "logic" frequently?
Originally Posted by teddybear
See, I learnt very fast, and I learnt from you. People who say bad is jealous, those who say good must have been benefiting tremendously from GEP system because they know that their kids cannot perform if they are going to compete fairly using PSLE and/or GCE "O" level exams. They just get burnt out! :p (I know of many such cases. That is why MOE cannot even name names of many successful people who are GEP students!).
Wow! so now you admit that you "inference" from my passages?
But wait, just now you tell everybody about me having "finally you are admitting you are jealous"!
In fact, I didn't say that admit that I am jealous but you made a statement saying that I did that.
On further questioning, you in your own words, say that you "inference... from your passages".
Now, what you wrote in few past postings just proves 1 thing:
You are naive or your sense is really warped?! And you like to distort and put words into other people's mouth (for what they have not said)!!!
This is called inference... from your passages
good = benefit, bad = jealous
Ok... you didn't say it I inferred it... haha... but its so obvious you are jealous... hahaha..
Please highlight which part of my writing where I say I admit that I am jealous?
Finally, you give us evidence that your sense is really warped! You can say things that doesn't existed and distort what other people wrote.
You are really il"logic"al indeed. No wonder you call yourself "logic", to remind yourself to practice "logic" frequently?
So.... finally you are admitting you are jealous
Good for you... well done!
Originally Posted by teddybear
See, I learnt very fast, and I learnt from you. People who say bad is jealous, those who say good must have been benefiting tremendously from GEP system because they know that their kids cannot perform if they are going to compete fairly using PSLE and/or GCE "O" level exams. They just get burnt out! :p (I know of many such cases. That is why MOE cannot even name names of many successful people who are GEP students!).
Oops...
Hit a raw nerve here.... it's pointless arguing with you... you obviously don't understand or cannot accept how things work anyway.
Ok bye bye... spend the long weekend with your family instead of in front of the computer.
:)
[1] Now, tell us, which part of my writing can give you make the conclusion that my "sense of justice and equality is warped"?
It is more like When you have no facts to back up your argument, you say people are naive, sense is warped, blah blah blah.
People can see clearly from the facts and arguments put forth, whose sense are warped, who are fighting for their benefits!
[2] Very funny, now you pushing responsibility to the schools? Might as well say it is the schools' perogative to give last priority to PRs and foreigners now instead of MOE's policy! This statement of yours is really "WARPED" indeed!
[3] You trying to blah us people is it?
May be many people don't know, MOE give special additional funding, SBGE, only to selected schools and only given based on number of GEP students these schools admit. So, these top schools will always give preference and priority to admiting GEP students so that they get more funding! So, it is obvious that there are already differential treatment given to GEP students, despite the fact that they don't even gain entry based on how well they did in their PSLE! So, what fairness, equality, and justice in Sec 1 entrance are you people talking about?!
So, all the bullshit/crap about giving normal students who are very good in 1 particular subject but poor in others to gain entry via DSA into good sec schools are just lips' service?
In the first place, GEP entry exam don't even test Chinese and Science, so people good in Chinese and Science but poorer in English and Math are already labelled as not gifted. So now you are saying that DSA give them a chance to get into good sec schools? Can you tell us which Sec Schools give DSA for students who are good in Chinese and Science only? So students who are good in English and Math can only be considered as gifted and labelled as "GEP" and as such they deserve DSA without needing to look at their PSLE results? What a whole load of hypocrite!
I hope my answers make sense to all others who are reading these replies to you:
1. Indeed, every student should be developed to their fullest potential.
However, MOE seem to give people like me the impression that MOE is not interested to develop all the other normal students to their fullest potential, BUT they are only interested in developing to fullest potential of the GEP kids!
Why do I say so? Because only GEP kids are given students-to-teachers ratio of 20:1. By virtue that they are considered "GIFTED", why do they need such low students-to-teachers ratio? Isn't it the normal students who need such low students-to-teachers ratio so that they get more help to develop to their fullest potential? But see, instead, MOE make the students-to-teachers ratio of normal kids classes 40+:1 !!! Now, are the GEP students who are considered gifted and can do so well in P3 GEP entry exams so lousy until they need 20:1 students:teacher ratio to do well?
And you say our govt can afford to spend more on GEP students? So, govt can afford and yet purposely don't want to let normal students to have 20:1 students-to-teachers ratio?
The facts and actions of MOE just doesn't tally. :tsk-tsk:
2. Wow! What a load of crap indeed. You are telling us that "gifted" must be good in Math and English only? :doh:
I felt very sorry for all the Nobel Prize Winners in Chemistry, Physics, Biology, Economics, except Math. You and Singapore's MOE says that all of you these bunch of Non-Math Nobel Prize Winners cannot be gifted and are not gifted at all despite winning Nobel Prize!
Oh wait a minute, there is NO Nobel Prize Winners for Math! Not in the past, not now, not in the future! What does that mean? The people who set up Nobel Prize do not believe that being good in Math can be considered "gifted" or worthy of being awarded a Nobel Prize? Now, who is more experts, you and MOE, or the bunch of people who setup and give out Nobel Prizes? :tongue3:
3. Now, Everyone takes the PSLE. So, why is GEP students exempted from using their PSLE results to compete fairly to gain entry into their choice of Sec Schools? You say GEP students still needs to meet minimum PSLE score requirements.
Wow! Big deal for the GEP kids to achieve minimum PSLE score requirements? What is this requirements? 200 points? A score that can only gain entry into neighbourhood Sec schools but GEP students can use to get entry into RI, Hwa Chong, etc when other normal students need 260 points in order to gain entry?!
Another thing, Why is it that MOE only give extra funding to schools who admit every single additional GEP student and not any other student who did exceedingly well in PSLE? Now now, we are seeing lots of unexplainable stuffs, the stuffs that are indeed unfair, inequatable, and un-meritocracy indeed?!
I hope my answers are satisfactory.
1. Each student should be developed to their fullest potential. If you can identify a child to be academically gifted why not develop the child with a specialised program if the system can afford it?
well... if the system can't afford it... its a different story ...then we may have to prioritise and maybe GEP can be shoved aside but if the system can afford it, shouldn't we?
2. Mathematics is the most neutral subject suitable for determining intellect, there are no new topics and the test topics are those they have learnt before.. like addition and subtraction. But at a more intense level... many would wonder how difficult can addition and subtraction be.... well you would be surprised.
English proficiency is required in order to be able to follow the class as it is the medium of instruction. However, an exceptional Math score can override a mediocre English score.
Science at P3 does not measure intellect but knowledge. A bright but underexposed child may lose out.
Chinese is a subject but not a medium of intruction.
3. Everyone takes the PSLE. It is one of the tools to measure the child's suitability for the school. For certain schools, they have additional tests called GAT to further refine the selection process. The GAT is actually more demanding than the PSLE and is taken before the PSLE... so a child can qualify for a school even before PSLE if he does well for the GAT. But that is not the end of it... the child still needs to meet minimum PSLE score requirements.
4. You wrote a lot rubbish.... but what is your question?
Oh no no, I don't need to spend much time, and I am very free indeed.
I can type very very fast, so very little time needed to type all these. Yo yo yo! :tongue3:
And let me point out that it is because you talk rubbish, you have no facts and logics to back you up, and yet you want to argue for the sake of arguing. Is it because you or your kids have benefited or benefiting tremendously and hence must keep defencing despite having no basis to back up your arguments! :banghead:
Oops...
Hit a raw nerve here.... it's pointless arguing with you... you obviously don't understand or cannot accept how things work anyway.
Ok bye bye... spend the long weekend with your family instead of in front of the computer.
:)
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