View Full Version : VoicesTODAY: HDB flats: How far ‘back to basics’ should we go?
Overwhelming majority wants hdb to be severely restricted. Watch the next cm.
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http://m.todayonline.com//voices/voicestoday-hdb-flats-how-far-back-basics-should-we-go
Ricky Lye: HDB flats are built for people to stay, not for rent to make money. The MND has no obligation to protect the 80,000 owners who are currently renting out rooms or entire flats
Cherry Lee: Focus shld be on affordability of new flats (to help those with housing problems) rather than to bring down prices of resale flats … If new HDB are priced within range of young couples, there’s no issue even if resale goes for $2million
Soka SG: To ensure HDB is always affordable for all Singaporean, we must cut the source (of the rising prices) from its roots, ie to stop all investment opportunities for HDB flats
Peter Ng: Fine tuning the pricing of NEW HDB flats to make it affordable for first time buyers (is) the way to go…The flat is an asset and privilege of a citizen and its value can be unlocked when one retires
Andrew Tan:(HDB prices should be) lower … For those who like to profit from HDB flats, think of your children
K C Tham: I oppose allowing those staying in private property to rent out (their HDB flat) at a preferential property tax as well. The chain reaction has resulted in lesser resale flats available n high prices
Henry Ng: Creating a category of HDBs that cannot be held as an asset is a must. This is the basic and should be meant for those who really cannot afford to regard housing as an investment
KC: I don’t think it’s right to make big profits from subsidised housing. Some are using this vehicle (for) more property in land scarce Singapore. I recommend implementing high taxes on HDB subletting revenue, maybe 30%
Alan Lee: Every HDB home owner knows that their flat will be worth a few grand more after a few years of occupancy. If that’s not the case, how are we to believe we can upgrade to a larger unit or move into private homes
Tan Kok Tim: HDB new flats - 50-yr lease instead of 99? Possible? The choice of buying at lease of 99 or 50 years for new HDB 1, 2 or 3-rm flats should be given to buyers. Other conditions: (minimum occupation of) 5 yrs or to sell it back to HDB
Tan Hui Leong: They (Govt) actually only need ONE rule (for) buying HDB flats: All applicants and those who live in the same unit shall not own any private property in Singapore and Overseas
Terence Yeo: this is PUBLIC housing. NOT property speculation! Do not lose the OBJECTIVE
Jeremy Hu: Don’t allow resale, reduce mortgage tenure to max 15yrs, increase down payments to 40%. Many ways to reduce prices, so it’s just a question of feasibly implementing them, which means reduced HDB sales revenues
Jonny Lee: Wealth creation through the use of the HDB’s restrictive policies has always been one of the biggest mistakes… Even now people who gotten estates in mature estates think they strike lottery. Why should this be for public housing?
Yang Chun Hong: ’No frills housing’ should cost no higher than $100,000 for a 3-room flat to $200,000 for 5-room flat. The target buyers would be children staying near elderly parents in mature estates where land space is limited
George Wong: Imposing punitive levy or taxes to force HDB owners to sell their properties is unfair. Many rely on the rental income for retirement and to supplement their income
Wong Kum Chow: Prices of BTO flats shld be maintained or reduced by up to 10% in next 5 yrs, Govt shld provide or enhance additional housing grants to needy, MOP shld be extended to 10 years, with first time owners allowed to downgrade or upgrade after 5 yrs
Hitoriwasaki Abe: Bottom line is the cost of new HDB houses… What is needed is some correction on the HDB housing price and not forgetting HDB needs to make some profits too for their overhead
Thumper Koh: The current (subletting) rules are already sufficient. With the tiered income tax structure, if owners are accurately declaring their rental income, they would think twice about keeping the HDB
Raymond Ng: No-Frills housing means a well-designed unit with No “dead space” such as sharp corners, big toilets and more efficient usage of (space). Around 850 sq ft stand alone building with no attached multi-story car park, no pricey amenities
Raymond Ng: We should advocate stringent mortgage tenure of up to 10 years mutatis mutandis to promote fiscal discipline and a low debt society
Cheow-Seng Ho: It would be good if the HDB gives the public an idea of what is meant by “No-frills housing”
Wayne Lee: HDB should also start looking at interior of the BTO flats. We are paying off heaps for an empty flat without common fixtures like cabinets or it is not really a full move in conditions
Chen: A young graduate couple can hit the 10K income ceiling while trying to secure a BTO (and) may not (be able) to purchase a private home…How is it than that EC becomes irrelevant when there is this group of sandwiched class to address?
Raymond Ng: Last 2 decades, HDB flats were bought for shelter and capital gain, causing property bubbles, affordability issues… Important that public housing provider develops affordable no-frills housing n promote policy of 10yr Mortgage Pay up Scheme
Jassica Ong: If basic needs of the people are not first met, then this (rooftop gardens) means nothing
Serynn Guay: Premium flats are ok but in moderation. Mass market should be the main focus due to higher demand. I don’t think it’s possible to have lower prices but it would be good if HDBs come with better quality doors and flooring ...Would be good if flats come with aircon and some furnishing, so it’s more live-in/move-in condition. ... Flats can be built higher, but don’t compromise too much on the unit size... Abolish the bomb shelter too
Tan Hock: Affordability for 1st timers is one thing. How about for those seeking “entitlements” for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th bites of the “cherries”? Where are the proper balances? Who should set-up the criteria and priorities required?
Darren Tan: The govt should give freedom of choice. some just want more cash for business or risk taking
@AzriSabari: I suggest that HDB should give an exception price to the younger generation who see flats as shelter to them
@honestlypotter: I think the prices are reasonable compared to first world economy we live in, the Govt has put aside various policies for people to afford what they’re buying. Compared to most countries security, safety here is higher
@sharifahsharoms: Housing is a basic human right, not a privilege. I think If someone can afford to buy condo, they must sell off hdb flat
Philip Lim: Policy must be fair and just. If private property owner buys HDB flat and must sell their property within 6 months, likewise must apply to HDB owner who bought private property, regardless whether for own stay or investment
Philip Lim: Being in the position to be able to buy another property, it shows that they are already more than self-sufficient. They should the less self-sufficient to get a chance to buy a HDB flat
@yuankang84: Agree that income ceiling should be related to type of flat. But some low income families may want big families
Benny Tay: A home is a shelter. If you treat it as an investment and sell it for profit, you lost your shelter. A house become an investment if it is not not only shelter!
Ah Tom: HDB flats are an asset and hence they should be an investments, something that can appreciate over time in capital in these times where bank interests are low and where stocks are volatile and when inflation is so high
Serene Chew: I’m a home owner. The way I see it, it is better to let prices fall than to rise. The current status is only advantageous to people who want to sell at a high price and cash out and run away from Singapore
Serene Chew: If I want to move house, even if I sell high, I have to buy high too. And end up paying more interests on my new home! So there is nothing in it for me even if my current flat appreciates double
Seb Oh: Isn’t HDB public housing? If one wish to invest, there is private housing. Investing in public housing has caused an issue for true Singaporeans wanting to buy a home
@JoeTanCY: HDB flats are suppose to be affordable, for the people. Not for investments for the rich or middle class
Tan Kwong Moh: Public housing is (now) very expensive in S’pore. If a house buyer must pay for 30 years installments until they retire, is it affordable?
Christopher Lim: To suddenly bring a sharp correction in property market, many people will get hurt. 40-50% of homeowners are still servicing mortgages
Abdul Kalik: Property market must be corrected or we’ll be like Japan’s highly inflated property boom and eventually the cause of the “lost decade”
@TODAYOnline: Should every HDB owner who buys private property be made to sell off their flat?
@mlukshumayeh: yes provided they are not Singaporeans. If Singaporean, must sell if they own more than one private property
@NINGOSTAR: yes. They don’t deserve to own the HDB if they have the ability to buy private properties
@chanweijie: Build basic flats so that it is affordable for all. Those seeking nicer flats can spend more on renovation or buy a condo
@mlukshumayeh: back to basics must mean to ensure Sporeans are provided a subsidised roof over their heads
@minicloud: Housing is a right, not a privilege
@yuankang84: As long as my HDB has supermarket/food court nearby, it is neat n spacious, parks n greenery..I’m happy. Balance is key
@1nineeight3: Forget EC, DBSS and other gimmicks. HDB should just go back to their roots and build AFFORDABLE PUBLIC HOUSING
@Maryho2323: It is more of a HOME to me!!! Please price it cheaper!!!
@sgshortstories: I feel that every Singaporean should be entitled to at least 1 HDB flat and (if they can afford) 1 private property, thats the cap
@thea_otaku4life: i think they should make simple flats to have a better start for newly weds
@sharifahsharoms: govt should protect the people’s needs for affordability to basic housing
@DanRisda: Society has changed so much? In what way bro? we still want good and affordable house. We’re still the same!
@benjapoh: why not enforce rules that the high income can’t rent it out? This could prevent inflation in HDB price
@BenLCX_:I work my life to pay the HDB, I doubt I have much cash to have children
@haboo213: give singaporeans what they want, let them pay for more. The HDB is like a budget airline, and private housing is a privilege
@CBuay: So long it is your first subsidized flat, all Singaporeans should be given the privilege
Every answer from the individuals have an agenda depending on their circumstance. Ask a newly wed and they'll say anything as long as they can get a flat cheaply NOW. Interview them 10 years later when they have kids and are more affluent and they'll sing a different tune.
Cant please everyone. You win some, you lose some. This is life.
My answer is the most objective. I am not eligible for HDB. I say it is for the greater good for this country that HDB must return to its roots. :)
SINGAPORE: Housing must be affordable, but the Housing & Development Board (HDB) must also remain financially viable, said former HDB chief executive officer Liu Thai Ker.
He was speaking about Singapore's housing policies at a lecture organised by the Ministry of National Development (MND) on Thursday.
Dr Liu, who is also the chairman of the Centre for Liveable Cities, said that Singapore must remain prudent, making sure that "government finance is sound".
He also gave suggestions on making housing more affordable.
He said supply should match with demand, adding that it might not be a bad idea to over-supply "marginally".
He said this would keep market prices in check.
Dr Liu also spoke about the difficulties and challenges faced in executing public housing policies.
He also discussed how the Singapore model may be applied to highly dense cities in developing countries.
Dr Liu Thai Ker, former chief architect and chief executive officer of HDB, said: "We should go to the basics, in the sense that we should not emulate condominiums, because... (they) require more expensive materials...
"Go back to the basics, keep the housing prices still affordable, and let the residents embellish the house."
- CNA/al
thomastansb
22-03-13, 13:40
Don't forget many elderlys are using their HDB flat to retire. But nowadays, the younger generations don't really care. No childcare and no elderly homes. This is how selfish they have become.
phantom_opera
22-03-13, 14:27
These lemmings will always see the glass as half empty rather than half full
Those Pinncale@Duxton lucky owners must be shivering with fear now .. they should organize counter attack by going to Hong Lim Park - The Pinnacle@Duxton residents support HDB as assets yeah :rolleyes:
phantom_opera
22-03-13, 14:33
A crash is needed.
you should rename to lemming tan
lemming:
a member of any large group following an unthinking course towards mass destruction
Regulators
22-03-13, 14:41
your agenda is crash so u can buy cheap, but most people are not so desperate to sell u cheap.
A crash is needed.
These lemmings will always see the glass as half empty rather than half full
Those Pinncale@Duxton lucky owners must be shivering with fear now .. they should organize counter attack by going to Hong Lim Park - The Pinnacle@Duxton residents support HDB as assets yeah :rolleyes:
haha, will they be wearing white too? :)
for years that we heard "hdb" is not just a flat with rooms and walls. hdb also can be decent class, good quality and meet today "expectation" as flat owner not just want a roof like the 70s 80s.
now talk about back to basics? so, back to cheapo finishing and long corridor with as many units as possible?
thomastansb
22-03-13, 15:24
That is why HDB is coming up with this option lor. Sell you cheap, no rental, MOP 10 years and no open market resale. Basically, cheap and no profit and standard layout. No premium, nothing. Let's see if anyone will bite.
Imagine you buy 100k, sell back to HDB 150k 20 years later
Your friend buy 250k, OMV 700k 20 years later
I leave it to individual to choose...
for years that we heard "hdb" is not just a flat with rooms and walls. hdb also can be decent class, good quality and meet today "expectation" as flat owner not just want a roof like the 70s 80s.
now talk about back to basics? so, back to cheapo finishing and long corridor with as many units as possible?
Regulators
22-03-13, 15:40
If HDB is not an asset, does the gahmen then expect all home owners savings that is tied to the flat be eroded away by inflation with zero growth? I think this is far from healthy.
That is why HDB is coming up with this option lor. Sell you cheap, no rental, MOP 10 years and no open market resale. Basically, cheap and no profit and standard layout. No premium, nothing. Let's see if anyone will bite.
Imagine you buy 100k, sell back to HDB 150k 20 years later
Your friend buy 250k, OMV 700k 20 years later
I leave it to individual to choose...
That is why HDB is coming up with this option lor. Sell you cheap, no rental, MOP 10 years and no open market resale. Basically, cheap and no profit and standard layout. No premium, nothing. Let's see if anyone will bite.
Imagine you buy 100k, sell back to HDB 150k 20 years later
Your friend buy 250k, OMV 700k 20 years later
I leave it to individual to choose...
selling back to HDB is a financial nightmare - who is going to pay for the difference? HDB - is it regarded as a hit on their balance sheet? Taxpayers?
If HDB is not an asset, does the gahmen then expect all home owners savings that is tied to the flat be eroded away by inflation with zero growth? I think this is far from healthy.
i doubt so. if the criteria to purchase these low cost housing is so unfavourable, i believe most like-minded folks would take their chance at balloting a normal BTO. or worse, this may even push up demand for normal HDB flats and thus, resale prices
Regulators
22-03-13, 15:48
it may not be equitable to sell back to hdb unless hdb is prepared to take back at valuation without any cov.
selling back to HDB is a financial nightmare - who is going to pay for the difference? HDB - is it regarded as a hit on their balance sheet? Taxpayers?
it may not be equitable to sell back to hdb unless hdb is prepared to take back at valuation without any cov.
then this becomes a conflict of interest - HDB valuers are currently doing the valuation of flats.
even if HDB is prepared to take back the unit at valuation without COV, who is going to fund it? from HDB coffers? from taxpayers' pockets?
Regulators
22-03-13, 16:04
they have to work out some formula to value the unit at a price at a discount from the open market but yet take into consideration gdp growth and inflation.
then this becomes a conflict of interest - HDB valuers are currently doing the valuation of flats.
even if HDB is prepared to take back the unit at valuation without COV, who is going to fund it? from HDB coffers? from taxpayers' pockets?
they have to work out some formula to value the unit at a price at a discount from the open market but yet take into consideration gdp growth and inflation.
erm, that still doesnt address who should be picking the tab
How to go back to the basic? No way... It is too damaging to the GDP... And for most of the HDB holder, you may as well tell them.. I am going to rob you...
if people use cpf to help pay for the flat, and only sell back to hdb.
if lease already expire 50 years, presumably the value of hdb flat will be down.
yet when sell back to hdb, wont the cpf used has to be paid back + interest?
like that value of flat sold back to HDB can cover the cpf interest payment?
The biggest problem is HDB is doing too well. The main issue is the discrepancy between the BTO price and the resales price, that a place to rest, sleep and watch TV in Singapore is just too valuable according to world standards.
No subsidy - Govt no good, price unaffordable. New buyers complain.
Full / max subsidy - Govt no good, people with too much spare cash swamp the private market, cars, etc. People who have bought resale unhappy, people who cannot buy BTO complain.
It's tough being the Govt actually - they are trying very hard to walk the middle ground to benefit all groups. No matter which group you are, rest assured there is something for all.
Now I fully realise what it means that "one man's meat is another man's poison..."
Good idea, you should suggest to HDB , if they really buy the idea let individual choose, see who still Prefer no raise in HDB price & want to buy it.
10yrs time, we will know who is crying , who is buying few more private unit or upgrade to bigger flat by selling their 1st BTO flat at high price!
That is why HDB is coming up with this option lor. Sell you cheap, no rental, MOP 10 years and no open market resale. Basically, cheap and no profit and standard layout. No premium, nothing. Let's see if anyone will bite.
Imagine you buy 100k, sell back to HDB 150k 20 years later
Your friend buy 250k, OMV 700k 20 years later
I leave it to individual to choose...
venetiacoffee
22-03-13, 16:46
for years that we heard "hdb" is not just a flat with rooms and walls. hdb also can be decent class, good quality and meet today "expectation" as flat owner not just want a roof like the 70s 80s.
now talk about back to basics? so, back to cheapo finishing and long corridor with as many units as possible?
That guy created the ugly massive monotonous long corridor HDB flats ...; town councils not doing their job to get rid of laundry sunning at parapet walls make things worse ...hdb becomes a "poor" class
That is why HDB is coming up with this option lor. Sell you cheap, no rental, MOP 10 years and no open market resale. Basically, cheap and no profit and standard layout. No premium, nothing. Let's see if anyone will bite.
Imagine you buy 100k, sell back to HDB 150k 20 years later
Your friend buy 250k, OMV 700k 20 years later
I leave it to individual to choose...
this is pure conjecture and greed talking. It is already clear the huge run-up in resale hdb prices in the past will be a thing of the past.
if people use cpf to help pay for the flat, and only sell back to hdb.
if lease already expire 50 years, presumably the value of hdb flat will be down.
yet when sell back to hdb, wont the cpf used has to be paid back + interest?
like that value of flat sold back to HDB can cover the cpf interest payment?
i dont see an issue here. this is merely a transfer between two stat boards, left pocket to right pocket, as long as it is hdb loan.
Regulators
22-03-13, 17:56
hdb will be buying back from these owners below market price but not at a loss to owners, taking into consideration inflation n economic factors. in the end, hdb would be picking up the tab as they would be buying back at higher than what they sold simply because property prices rise with inflation.
erm, that still doesnt address who should be picking the tab
phantom_opera
22-03-13, 18:09
many mainland SPRs very super rich ... pay 1m is like peanut
so you want to buy mature estate, pay 500k and then later sell to mainland SPRs for 1m
or
you want to buy cheap cheap 100k and sell later back to HDB for 200k
socialist system already proven a failure in modern time ...
:doh:
selling back to HDB is a financial nightmare - who is going to pay for the difference? HDB - is it regarded as a hit on their balance sheet? Taxpayers?
The next buyer will pay...HDB merely takes back the unit at original cost + interest (not market valuation) and release for ballot to other buyers. The new release price, before subsidy, obviously need to be higher than the buy-back price.
phantom_opera
22-03-13, 18:16
I agree with LKY, some Singaporeans are simply daft ... they do not understand how valuable Singapore property can be
and Singapore is free of pollution ... this factor alone is priceless
‘Toxic cocktail’ threatens the Ganges
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/3b4c2046-91f6-11e2-a6f4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2OGJ0ngbO
Beijing air pollution
http://www.economist.com/blogs/analects/2013/01/beijings-air-pollution
By opting for the socialist HDB, some claim that they can then save for retirement ... this remains to be seen ... the extra CPF savings can be easily lost in MBS, RWS, Bintan, Batam, China mei mei etc. End up which one is the lesser evil - locking up retirement fund in your HDB or lose your CPF savings and go hungry ??
many mainland SPRs very super rich ... pay 1m is like peanut
so you want to buy mature estate, pay 500k and then later sell to mainland SPRs for 1m
or
you want to buy cheap cheap 100k and sell later back to HDB for 200k
socialist system already proven a failure in modern time ...
:doh:
What complainers want is this. Buy cheap cheap 100k in mature estate and sell at 1 mio to rich SPR. Many just pushing their luck, crying sob stories etc, without realizing there is no free lunch in this world.
Allthepies
22-03-13, 18:28
These people don't even know what they are wishing for. Ask them to look at hdb flat built 40 years ago, do they really want those type compared to duxton and new bto tat rival condo.:doh: as a young person myself, I would choose duxton and those condo like bto without a second thought.
Allthepies
22-03-13, 18:32
And it is even simpler choosing between a non appreciating liability hdb against an appreciating asset hdb. Take the asset la.
If hdb really become non appreciating, then I would advise all not to buy, instead go rent hdb. Use the fund to buy condo instead.
many mainland SPRs very super rich ... pay 1m is like peanut
so you want to buy mature estate, pay 500k and then later sell to mainland SPRs for 1m
or
you want to buy cheap cheap 100k and sell later back to HDB for 200k
socialist system already proven a failure in modern time ...
:doh:
u can always buy private, where there is a healthy resale market.
leave public housing to where it belongs - back to its roots.
The expectation of younger generation and old generation is totally different. Liu Thai Ker is talking non-sense. It is no way for HDB to build flats of the 70s and 80s.
And it is even simpler choosing between a non appreciating liability hdb against an appreciating asset hdb. Take the asset la.
If hdb really become non appreciating, then I would advise all not to buy, instead go rent hdb. Use the fund to buy condo instead.
Allthepies
22-03-13, 20:05
The expectation of younger generation and old generation is totally different. Liu Thai Ker is talking non-sense. It is no way for HDB to build flats of the 70s and 80s.
If you want $40K 4 room flat, I think really need to go 50s or 60s...
Ya quite true, young people and old people have different expectation...
should just build the old 1. no frills hdb for everyone see they want a not. lift on 1 , 6, 12 only. and walls can see the brick lines and all the pipes and wire in pipes expose everywhere. see all want a not lor.
The expectation of younger generation and old generation is totally different. Liu Thai Ker is talking non-sense. It is no way for HDB to build flats of the 70s and 80s.
want to go back to 70s and 80s price? can ask them go diff up the workers who build the hdb in the 70s n 80s. and pay them the wages of 70s n 80s lor..
or any takeres to be paid 70s or 80s wages today? Pay cut anyone?
should just build the old 1. no frills hdb for everyone see they want a not. lift on 1 , 6, 12 only. and walls can see the brick lines and all the pipes and wire in pipes expose everywhere. see all want a not lor.
People who say they want will retract on it after receiving the key, and more complaints will come.
thomastansb
22-03-13, 22:10
Taxpayers lah. Who else. We are already paying for all the HDB. The cost of land + cost to build. HDB only sell you cheap cheap at 250k. If at cost price + land price, you think can get at 250k?
erm, that still doesnt address who should be picking the tab
thomastansb
22-03-13, 22:13
This is not greed. This is common sense. You buy a house at 100k, you want to sell 100k? You won't have huge run up due to third to first world but at least, today you buy 250k, the resale value is about 450 to 500k. In other words, Singaporeans benefit 100%. But many don't get it. Soon, you buy 250k, sell 280k and they will be happy.
this is pure conjecture and greed talking. It is already clear the huge run-up in resale hdb prices in the past will be a thing of the past.
phantom_opera
22-03-13, 22:17
obviously, some do not appreciate the brutal capitalist Singapore system, wait till u hit Cyprus like crisis
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/03/Cyprus%20Ratings_0.jpg
thomastansb
22-03-13, 22:17
What happen to Socialist Hollande? Ever since he promise to tax the rich more (sound familiar to some suggestion recently), the economy is in free fall. Opps, he also promise to help the poor more. But he realise all the super rich are leaving (due to higher tax) and France collected lesser tax so he can't help the poor. Worse still, he needs to raise the tax for the middle class because some super rich left. But economy already so weak, he raise the tax = worse recession.
This is what happen when you promise too much and do too little. His popularity is the worst in France history btw.
I agree with LKY, some Singaporeans are simply daft ... they do not understand how valuable Singapore property can be
and Singapore is free of pollution ... this factor alone is priceless
‘Toxic cocktail’ threatens the Ganges
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/3b4c2046-91f6-11e2-a6f4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2OGJ0ngbO
Beijing air pollution
http://www.economist.com/blogs/analects/2013/01/beijings-air-pollution
By opting for the socialist HDB, some claim that they can then save for retirement ... this remains to be seen ... the extra CPF savings can be easily lost in MBS, RWS, Bintan, Batam, China mei mei etc. End up which one is the lesser evil - locking up retirement fund in your HDB or lose your CPF savings and go hungry ??
thomastansb
22-03-13, 22:24
It is not brutal.
If you are poor, you still can have education up to tertiary. You won't have an easy life (like me) but you won't die. You buy a small HDB, find a job in a robust economy and your HDB has already doubled by the time you sign the OTP.
If you are middle class (75% of population), you buy a 4 or 5 bedroom HDB, make 100% gain, easy to find job, taking sucky transport everyday.
If you are rich, it is easy to make more money and some are happily chatting here :D. And many can afford to buy car and indirectly, paying more tax.
Of course, it is not perfect but it is good enough. Transport is horrible during peak hours and shortage of HDB from 2006 to 2009. 80% of taxes are paid by the top 20%. To me, it is pretty balanced.
obviously, some do not appreciate the brutal capitalist Singapore system, wait till u hit Cyprus like crisis
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/03/Cyprus%20Ratings_0.jpg
This is not greed. This is common sense. You buy a house at 100k, you want to sell 100k? You won't have huge run up due to third to first world but at least, today you buy 250k, the resale value is about 450 to 500k. In other words, Singaporeans benefit 100%. But many don't get it. Soon, you buy 250k, sell 280k and they will be happy.
I want to ask u: Today u buy 250k, when do u expect it to double to 500k? in 5 yrs time? 10 yrs? when??
obviously, some do not appreciate the brutal capitalist Singapore system, wait till u hit Cyprus like crisis
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/03/Cyprus%20Ratings_0.jpg
what's the relevance here, other than fear mongering?
Good point :cheers1:
I agree with LKY, some Singaporeans are simply daft ... they do not understand how valuable Singapore property can be
and Singapore is free of pollution ... this factor alone is priceless
‘Toxic cocktail’ threatens the Ganges
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/3b4c2046-91f6-11e2-a6f4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2OGJ0ngbO
Beijing air pollution
http://www.economist.com/blogs/analects/2013/01/beijings-air-pollution
By opting for the socialist HDB, some claim that they can then save for retirement ... this remains to be seen ... the extra CPF savings can be easily lost in MBS, RWS, Bintan, Batam, China mei mei etc. End up which one is the lesser evil - locking up retirement fund in your HDB or lose your CPF savings and go hungry ??
Think many agree with what you share, however those negative thinking will question "sure or not, when can take profit" etc
You are right, many don't get it, especially those who :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: everyday even it is pure win win for them.
I support because I am one who benefit under such scheme, and this BTO idea still available to all new web ( or now single above 35)
This is not greed. This is common sense. You buy a house at 100k, you want to sell 100k? You won't have huge run up due to third to first world but at least, today you buy 250k, the resale value is about 450 to 500k. In other words, Singaporeans benefit 100%. But many don't get it. Soon, you buy 250k, sell 280k and they will be happy.
thomastansb
22-03-13, 23:14
How I know? I only know if economy stays strong, unemployment stays low, then the prices will remain strong. Just like from 1970s till now, prices on average are going up.
I want to ask u: Today u buy 250k, when do u expect it to double to 500k? in 5 yrs time? 10 yrs? when??
thomastansb
22-03-13, 23:16
I didn't benefit much but I have seen real cases. My bro bought 4 bedroom at buangkok mrt at 185k. Hehe.. He just sold it. I think we know how much he made. Just upgraded to a big nice condo. I don't care what people say. I only know HDB allows poor people like us to have a chance to upgrade to private.
Think many agree with what you share, however those negative thinking will question "sure or not, when can take profit" etc
You are right, many don't get it, especially those who :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: everyday even it is pure win win for them.
I support because I am one who benefit under such scheme, and this BTO idea still available to all new web ( or now single above 35)
How I know? I only know if economy stays strong, unemployment stays low, then the prices will remain strong. Just like from 1970s till now, prices on average are going up.
but didnt u say in an earlier post the e.g. of buy at 250k, 20yrs later sell at OMV of 700k?
how can u be certain this past e.g. will also repeat in the future? especially when the govt has made clear to u wages have not caught up and it is determined to ensure prices do not rise like in the past?
Amber Woods
22-03-13, 23:33
This is not greed. This is common sense. You buy a house at 100k, you want to sell 100k? You won't have huge run up due to third to first world but at least, today you buy 250k, the resale value is about 450 to 500k. In other words, Singaporeans benefit 100%. But many don't get it. Soon, you buy 250k, sell 280k and they will be happy.
If you buy at 250k, sell at 280k and able to upgrade at 400k, isn't it better than than buying at 250k, sell at 500k and upgrade at 800k?
In another word, if overall prices down, you buy low, sell low and upgrade at lower price with a lower loan.
after the get their first house at an affordable price and realise they don't have the platform to upgrade, they will be complaining again.
Haha, I agree with your sharing.
Let those KPKP question so much & no confidence on our govt be the loser for life.
10yrs, 15yrs,20yrs later our HDB will raise again as we don't expect Macdonald meal to still sell at $5.50 right?
Same as HDB which $550K, it will raise due to inflation.
However I will never sell my HDB, as it is something got $$$ also can't buy anymore. Congrats to your Bro profit, he really earn a lot by looking at HDB transaction price at that area.
We will wish to be the only 5% who got the best in whole world ( HDB + Private + Commercial )
Got time coffee , chees
I didn't benefit much but I have seen real cases. My bro bought 4 bedroom at buangkok mrt at 185k. Hehe.. He just sold it. I think we know how much he made. Just upgraded to a big nice condo. I don't care what people say. I only know HDB allows poor people like us to have a chance to upgrade to private.
phantom_opera
23-03-13, 00:02
while the lemmings talk about 'back to basics', the smart buyers are returning to the market in big waves... as they realize that the golden era is indeed arriving ... our PC is still affordable relative to HK/Shanghai/Beijing
2000 units in March ??
http://tivohdmg.photobucket.com/albums/v212/chngz/photo1-1.jpg
while the lemmings talk about 'back to basics', the smart buyers are returning to the market in big waves... as they realize that the golden era is indeed arriving ... our PC is still affordable relative to HK/Shanghai/Beijing
2000 units in March ??
http://tivohdmg.photobucket.com/albums/v212/chngz/photo1-1.jpg
isnt minister Khaw the one who is looking to return hdb 'back to basics'? why call him a lemming? You guys are really confused.
2000 units sold in March, CM8 in April...
phantom_opera
23-03-13, 00:21
2000 units sold in March, CM8 in April...
very soon, you can only own two, one HDB one PC or two PCs
chiong ah
http://www.tradingfloor.com/images/blog/medium/fb8a7c99-f914-4383-8073-aa7dc59c9d99.png
very soon, you can only own two, one HDB one PC or two PCs
chiong ah
Hint hint leh, how will it be implemented? Will affect existing owners with more than 2 homes? :D
very soon, you can only own two, one HDB one PC or two PCs
chiong ah
http://www.tradingfloor.com/images/blog/medium/fb8a7c99-f914-4383-8073-aa7dc59c9d99.png
when they go to such extremes, other asset classes could balloon.
thomastansb
23-03-13, 00:52
The key is "do not rise". But won't drop. Right?
That means currently buy 250k, can sell 500k. But in 20 years time, you go figure out the inflation.
Of course, no one can be sure. But this is the scenario now so it is up to individual. Of course, you can don't buy and continue to rent. It's your choice.
but didnt u say in an earlier post the e.g. of buy at 250k, 20yrs later sell at OMV of 700k?
how can u be certain this past e.g. will also repeat in the future? especially when the govt has made clear to u wages have not caught up and it is determined to ensure prices do not rise like in the past?
thomastansb
23-03-13, 00:54
It's up to individual. There is no right answer. As long as can make money and retire, that is the most important.
If you buy at 250k, sell at 280k and able to upgrade at 400k, isn't it better than than buying at 250k, sell at 500k and upgrade at 800k?
In another word, if overall prices down, you buy low, sell low and upgrade at lower price with a lower loan.
thomastansb
23-03-13, 00:55
He hinted at 2 types of HDB. 1 is basic, the other is the usual route.
Buyers have a choice but let's see how many will go for "non-profitable" HDB.
isnt minister Khaw the one who is looking to return hdb 'back to basics'? why call him a lemming? You guys are really confused.
I want to ask u: Today u buy 250k, when do u expect it to double to 500k? in 5 yrs time? 10 yrs? when??
After MOP 5yrs. Those 30yrs old 4rm already selling on average $400k or more now. If yours is new flat it will worth even more.
How I know? I only know if economy stays strong, unemployment stays low, then the prices will remain strong. Just like from 1970s till now, prices on average are going up.
Simply put we still need to work hard to keep things going. Dont forget all these did not come without sacrifice or hard work from the previous generations.
Many simply forget and take it for granted. Want Bao Jiao but without any sacrifice or hard work?
If you buy at 250k, sell at 280k and able to upgrade at 400k, isn't it better than than buying at 250k, sell at 500k and upgrade at 800k?
In another word, if overall prices down, you buy low, sell low and upgrade at lower price with a lower loan.
Well its pretty mis leading with ur example. why cannot be buy 250K sell 500K and upgrade at 620K?
Anyway u are saying is upgrade cost u $ or more $ sure.. I its upgrade. Ah Kong guarantee u 1st time gain. rest is up to u. handwork , ingenuity etc. What abt retirement? folks stay till they retire and down grade say to a government studio or go live with kids? which scenario better? the one buy 250K and sell 280K or the 1 buy 250K sell 500K?
upgrade or not it up to individual capability. But the alternative safety net its suppose to help provide out weight the upgrading functions.
For the upgrade
Anyway maybe take a life example then of today. with differing time line.
EC bought at 2000 sold now and upgrade.
2000 EC ard 530K
Today EC ard 1.15M
difference ~ 620K
Upgrade to another condo near by? market 1.4M ?
the owner of this hav a choice take the profit. go downgrade to HDB have $$ 500K or pay 200K more to upgrade to something near by. Pay or spend up to individual. diff people diff needs. If must upgrade to town n complain its $2.5-3M now.. wat can I say . cant blame the sky , haven and the holy ghost right.
Their predecessor enjoyed the benefit and they want the same if nt more. :beats-me-man: That is worrisome.
Simply put we still need to work hard to keep things going. Dont forget all these did not come without sacrifice or hard work from the previous generations.
Many simply forget and take it for granted. Want Bao Jiao but without any sacrifice or hard work?
Their predecessor enjoyed the benefit and they want the same if nt more. :beats-me-man: That is worrisome.
With rising costs of labour and raw materials, the only thing Mr Khaw can discount is land price. But pricing of land is a sensitive issue, as it has been one of the main gripe against HDB in the last decades.
Like the former URA Chief planner and HDB CEO said about just giving the basic shell. Internal brick wall replaces with dry wall, etc. Alter the lease period from 99 to 70 eventhough there may be some implication. Banks and CPF will have to adjust their policies. People will learn to accept it just like COE.
With rising costs of labour and raw materials, the only thing Mr Khaw can discount is land price. But pricing of land is a sensitive issue, as it has been one of the main gripe against HDB in the last decades.
Amber Woods
23-03-13, 09:00
If you buy at 250k, sell at 280k and able to upgrade at 400k, isn't it better than than buying at 250k, sell at 500k and upgrade at 800k?
In another word, if overall prices down, you buy low, sell low and upgrade at lower price with a lower loan.
Well its pretty mis leading with ur example. why cannot be buy 250K sell 500K and upgrade at 620K?
The above example is simply to illustrate that it does not matter if we buy low and sell low because we will also get to upgrade at lower price if we choose to.
This compares with buying high and selling high and ended up having to upgrade at a higher price which resulted in us having to take a much larger loan.
Which is the better devil?
It is in the interest of the garment to see real estate goes up as it helps to boost their economy.
The above example is to illustrate that it does not matter if we buy low and sell low because we will also get to upgrade at lower price if we choose to.
This compares with buying high and selling high and ended up having to upgrade at a higher price which resulted in us having to trake a much larger loan.
Which is the better devil?
Amber Woods
23-03-13, 09:06
It is in the interest of the garment to see real estate goes up as it helps to boost their economy.
The government had already said in no uncertain terms that prices are too high for our own good. This is the fact.
Did you hear LKY at standard chartered forum?
The government had already said in no uncertain terms that prices are too high for our own good. This is the fact.
Amber Woods
23-03-13, 09:12
Did you hear LKY at standard chartered forum?
Did you hear DPM Therman? LKY was talking generally and not at any specific price point. DPM Therman clearly stated that prices should come down for the greater good of our economy.
KBW has already started to act on Tharman's statement. Hdb will be within their control but not PCs. You look at this month's sale at Sennett residence, bartley ridge at mount Vernon, hillion at Bukit panjang, Urban V, etc.,
Did you hear DPM Therman? LKY was talking generally and not at any specific price point. DPM Therman clearly stated that prices should come down for the greater good of our economy.
Amber Woods
23-03-13, 09:26
KBW has already started to act on Tharman's statement. Hdb will be within their control but not PCs. You look at this month's sale at Sennett residence, bartley ridge at mount Vernon, hillion at Bukit panjang, Urban V, etc.,
KBW cannot be telling the market so clearly on market sensitive issue. He was already bold enough to say about bringing the prices of BTO flat down by 30%. Surely, he cannot be so bold to tell us even more. The market will crash instead of a soft landing which the government is trying to achieve.
We must learn to read between the lines of politicians.
and Singapore is free of pollution ...
not anymore.... you try to wind down your windows and drive around and see if you can breath in any fresh air. our dear top leaders are just waiting for things to happen (and then pass the problem to someone else).
growth growth and more growth (for bigger pockets) but do they care about conserving the environment and keeping the air fresh for everyone?:mad:
phantom_opera
23-03-13, 10:43
capitalist system must expand, buy low sell low upgrade low is against capitalist system, unless u totally ban SPRs and foreigners from buying otherwise price is always relative to hk, shanghai n Beijing
even u ban, ppl buy thru proxy
thomastansb
23-03-13, 10:47
I think we have to be reasonable and realistic.
Without growth, how would your salary go up? You want lesser growth means your salary go up slower or even stagnant. Because company profit comes first. Are people aware of that? Lower growth also mean higher tax eventually.
Let's be honest. We don't have Zurich air or Mount Everest breeze. But we don't have heavy pollution and our air is very good by international standard. So sometimes, give and take. It is very easy to pinpoint a few areas and say it is not gold standard or people aren't working. But how much effort and money to achieve that "gold" standard? Just go to our neighbouring countries then you know liao. Can even go Taiwan, HK or Seoul to take a look.
not anymore.... you try to wind down your windows and drive around and see if you can breath in any fresh air. our dear top leaders are just waiting for things to happen (and then pass the problem to someone else).
growth growth and more growth (for bigger pockets) but do they care about conserving the environment and keeping the air fresh for everyone?:mad:
thomastansb
23-03-13, 10:50
Go back to communist system also not bad.
HDB price the same. No foreigners. Same haircut. Same food everyday. No traffic jam.
capitalist system must expand, buy low sell low upgrade low is against capitalist system, unless u totally ban SPRs and foreigners from buying otherwise price is always relative to hk, shanghai n Beijing
even u ban, ppl buy thru proxy
phantom_opera
23-03-13, 10:57
my friend cousin started work in Beijing with 5kpm salary
that is how fast the salary inflation in Beijing, it is little wonder Beijing psf is now higher than Singapore
if u price Sg hdb cheap cheap, the q for sprs will extend till south china sea and after a while pinnacle duxton all belong to SPRS
A crash is needed.
I support yowetan. The government should crash the market so that we can be back to basic without all sort of greeed and "artificial" wants.
thomastansb
23-03-13, 11:05
My cousin working in China. She told me the salary there is at least 50% higher than Singapore. But very competitive. Once you cannot perform, you are out. They will sack you. But she say tax too high so take home pay almost equivalent to Singapore.
Oh ya, they have many different taxes. Some are quite funny. Like farming tax also. Haha. But all add up close to 50% so bo hua liao.
my friend cousin started work in Beijing with 5kpm salary
that is how fast the salary inflation in Beijing, it is little wonder Beijing psf is now higher than Singapore
if u price Sg hdb cheap cheap, the q for sprs will extend till south china sea and after a while pinnacle duxton all belong to SPRS
He hoped for a crash because he believes he will then be able to buy mt sinai property. He already own a hdb flat and living off on his parents and in-laws rental.
Greed and artificial want.
My cousin working in China. She told me the salary there is at least 50% higher than Singapore. But very competitive. Once you cannot perform, you are out. They will sack you. But she say tax too high so take home pay almost equivalent to Singapore.
Oh ya, they have many different taxes. Some are quite funny. Like farming tax also. Haha. But all add up close to 50% so bo hua liao.
Many go there for the experience.
The uni undergraduates there can only sleep for 4hours each day and commit to books for the rest of the day.
phantom_opera
23-03-13, 11:22
My cousin working in China. She told me the salary there is at least 50% higher than Singapore. But very competitive. Once you cannot perform, you are out. They will sack you. But she say tax too high so take home pay almost equivalent to Singapore.
Oh ya, they have many different taxes. Some are quite funny. Like farming tax also. Haha. But all add up close to 50% so bo hua liao.
u are right tax is much higher in china but the salary inflation cannot sustain at current rate also, many lemmings in Sg want cheap housing, if resale is cheap, very soon mainland Chinese will own all resale hdbs lol
phantom_opera
23-03-13, 11:45
lemmings also dun understand that u need to pay a premium for ease of access to good jobs and quality of life
u stay near mrt, u can have organic breakfast at cedele at raffles shopping mall, buy some breads at Pullman bakery, get some decent lunch at suntec food republic all airconed, this is especially important when u are working with kid when time is precious
when u retire then u have all the time so ease of access to facilities less critical
of course some will expect free lunches, stay at mature estate with lim chu kang prices
Allthepies
23-03-13, 12:02
I think we have to be reasonable and realistic.
Without growth, how would your salary go up? You want lesser growth means your salary go up slower or even stagnant. Because company profit comes first. Are people aware of that? Lower growth also mean higher tax eventually.
Let's be honest. We don't have Zurich air or Mount Everest breeze. But we don't have heavy pollution and our air is very good by international standard. So sometimes, give and take. It is very easy to pinpoint a few areas and say it is not gold standard or people aren't working. But how much effort and money to achieve that "gold" standard? Just go to our neighbouring countries then you know liao. Can even go Taiwan, HK or Seoul to take a look.
Fully agree with you :cheers1: :cheers1: .
Some Singaporeans no longer think, they just expect to have the best of everything with zero trade off. High pay yet don't want economy to fly, 24 hours shopping and convenience yet expect malls to be empty just to serve them, cheap food yet expect air conditioning, want maids to serve them yet don't want to see them on the streets.....
Allthepies
23-03-13, 12:09
lemmings also dun understand that u need to pay a premium for ease of access to good jobs and quality of life
u stay near mrt, u can have organic breakfast at cedele at raffles shopping mall, buy some breads at Pullman bakery, get some decent lunch at suntec food republic all airconed, this is especially important when u are working with kid when time is precious
when u retire then u have all the time so ease of access to facilities less critical
of course some will expect free lunches, stay at mature estate with lim chu kang prices
Fully agree with you too!
If we have too many lemmings, Singapore will collapse...
I think we have to be reasonable and realistic.
Without growth, how would your salary go up? You want lesser growth means your salary go up slower or even stagnant. Because company profit comes first. Are people aware of that? Lower growth also mean higher tax eventually.
Let's be honest. We don't have Zurich air or Mount Everest breeze. But we don't have heavy pollution and our air is very good by international standard. So sometimes, give and take. It is very easy to pinpoint a few areas and say it is not gold standard or people aren't working. But how much effort and money to achieve that "gold" standard? Just go to our neighbouring countries then you know liao. Can even go Taiwan, HK or Seoul to take a look.
not expecting much... just take some actions on soot pollutios from buses, vans, lorries, trucks, ... and stop measuring pollution from buses from the number of people they can carry. imagine another 800 black soot polluting buses on the road! our land area is very small. we need to think differently :2cents:
Allthepies
23-03-13, 12:14
I support yowetan. The government should crash the market so that we can be back to basic without all sort of greeed and "artificial" wants.
I think what he really want is to buy big condo cheap which is really beyond his payscale...
Fully agree with you too!
If we have too many lemmings, Singapore will collapse...
Arent the lemmings strongly behind the PAP?
Go back to communist system also not bad.
HDB price the same. No foreigners. Same haircut. Same food everyday. No traffic jam.
Back to communist system? Are u from china? bcos Spore never had a communist system.
Go back to communist system also not bad.
HDB price the same. No foreigners. Same haircut. Same food everyday. No traffic jam.
healthy. everyday cycle to work. no distraction of smart phones, ipad, note II too. no internet no blockbusters to deal with more time to go hubba hubba..
lemmings also dun understand that u need to pay a premium for ease of access to good jobs and quality of life
u stay near mrt, u can have organic breakfast at cedele at raffles shopping mall, buy some breads at Pullman bakery, get some decent lunch at suntec food republic all airconed, this is especially important when u are working with kid when time is precious
when u retire then u have all the time so ease of access to facilities less critical
of course some will expect free lunches, stay at mature estate with lim chu kang prices
++++++++++++++Like
thomastansb
23-03-13, 14:05
Slowly lor. They implementing the Euro IV or V soon I heard.
But also need to think of those people earning money by those old buses. But slowly will change so I think right direction...
not expecting much... just take some actions on soot pollutios from buses, vans, lorries, trucks, ... and stop measuring pollution from buses from the number of people they can carry. imagine another 800 black soot polluting buses on the road! our land area is very small. we need to think differently :2cents:
thomastansb
23-03-13, 14:07
I was just being sarcastic.
Back to communist system? Are u from china? bcos Spore never had a communist system.
felicia_sg
23-03-13, 14:24
KBW said property in suburb should be about 4x their annual salary.
Since only 20% houses are private, & top 20 quantile household about $12k pm, 4 years mean That mean OCR private property eg pasir ris 1000sqft should worth about $576k, or $576 psf! Wow! But now pasir ris new launch >$1000 psf or overpriced by 73.6%! so govt going to drop private property price in pasir ris by 73.6% to achieve aim of 4x annual salary? Or since they sell land at >$500 psf, may be they can give free to developer to build private properties to achieve the aim? Or alternatively their quote of 4x annual salary is plucking figure from the air & is wrong?
I would believe that 8x annual salary is more reasonable, that make affordable private prop at pasir ris at $1.15m, or current price is absolutely affordable. Don't we see the truth already? Otherwise how to explain pasir ris condos now still can sell so fast after 8CMs? :rolleyes:
KBW cannot be telling the market so clearly on market sensitive issue. He was already bold enough to say about bringing the prices of BTO flat down by 30%. Surely, he cannot be so bold to tell us even more. The market will crash instead of a soft landing which the government is trying to achieve.
We must learn to read between the lines of politicians.
Regulators
23-03-13, 14:36
4 years to fully pay a flat makes our properties seem so cheap when I land is more precious than gold. QUOTE=felicia_sg]KBW said property in suburb should be about 4x their annual salary.
Since only 20% houses are private, & top 20 quantile household about $12k pm, 4 years mean That mean OCR private property eg pasir ris 1000sqft should worth about $576k, or $576 psf! Wow! But now pasir ris new launch >$1000 psf or overpriced by 73.6%! so govt going to drop private property price in pasir ris by 73.6% to achieve aim of 4x annual salary? Or since they sell land at >$500 psf, may be they can give free to developer to build private properties to achieve the aim? Or alternatively their quote of 4x annual salary is plucking figure from the air & is wrong?
I would believe that 8x annual salary is more reasonable, that make affordable private prop at pasir ris at $1.15m, or current price is absolutely affordable. Don't we see the truth already? Otherwise how to explain pasir ris condos now still can sell so fast after 8CMs? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Amber Woods
23-03-13, 14:41
KBW said property in suburb should be about 4x their annual salary.
Since only 20% houses are private, & top 20 quantile household about $12k pm, 4 years mean That mean OCR private property eg pasir ris 1000sqft should worth about $576k, or $576 psf! Wow! But now pasir ris new launch >$1000 psf or overpriced by 73.6%! so govt going to drop private property price in pasir ris by 73.6% to achieve aim of 4x annual salary? Or since they sell land at >$500 psf, may be they can give free to developer to build private properties to achieve the aim? Or alternatively their quote of 4x annual salary is plucking figure from the air & is wrong?
I would believe that 8x annual salary is more reasonable, that make affordable private prop at pasir ris at $1.15m, or current price is absolutely affordable. Don't we see the truth already? Otherwise how to explain pasir ris condos now still can sell so fast after 8CMs? :rolleyes:
Mr Khaw mentioned prices at 2009 level as a reference where prices should ideally be.
4 years to fully pay a flat makes our properties seem so cheap when I land is more precious than gold.
:D :D :D eat wind ah?
thomastansb
23-03-13, 14:50
He is referring to HDB. Not private. As long as HDB remains affordable, he is happy liao. Private, you have to earn more and work harder. No free lunch.
KBW said property in suburb should be about 4x their annual salary.
Since only 20% houses are private, & top 20 quantile household about $12k pm, 4 years mean That mean OCR private property eg pasir ris 1000sqft should worth about $576k, or $576 psf! Wow! But now pasir ris new launch >$1000 psf or overpriced by 73.6%! so govt going to drop private property price in pasir ris by 73.6% to achieve aim of 4x annual salary? Or since they sell land at >$500 psf, may be they can give free to developer to build private properties to achieve the aim? Or alternatively their quote of 4x annual salary is plucking figure from the air & is wrong?
I would believe that 8x annual salary is more reasonable, that make affordable private prop at pasir ris at $1.15m, or current price is absolutely affordable. Don't we see the truth already? Otherwise how to explain pasir ris condos now still can sell so fast after 8CMs? :rolleyes:
felicia_sg
23-03-13, 15:11
Didn't they say should be pegged to income? Otherwise they should say fair price should be 2009 price & not 4x annual salary? :doh:
Mr Khaw mentioned prices at 2009 level as a reference where prices should ideally be.
felicia_sg
23-03-13, 15:14
Really? Then why is there a need for 7CMs? :rolleyes:
He is referring to HDB. Not private. As long as HDB remains affordable, he is happy liao. Private, you have to earn more and work harder. No free lunch.
I was just being sarcastic.
Actually i thought u and some others are prone to exaggeration.
phantom_opera
23-03-13, 15:25
all the bears here take Khaw/Tharman too seriously ... there is such a thing called political lip service
action to silence certain camp .. yes, may be 5% allocated for socialist HDBs (even lemmings need to ballot lah) ... to significantly distort capitalist system .. NO
if 50% is socialist HDBs cheap cheap but cannot rent out cannot sell to open market ... then there will be shortage of rental & rental supply liao, how to achieve 6.9m population target hah?? :beats-me-man:
6.9m done deal liao lah, LKY confirmed this in recent forum
thomastansb
23-03-13, 15:54
It is called cooling, not crashing.
Really? Then why is there a need for 7CMs? :rolleyes:
thomastansb
23-03-13, 15:55
Pot calling kettle black?
Actually i thought u and some others are prone to exaggeration.
Amber Woods
23-03-13, 17:42
all the bears here take Khaw/Tharman too seriously ... there is such a thing called political lip service
action to silence certain camp .. yes, may be 5% allocated for socialist HDBs (even lemmings need to ballot lah) ... to significantly distort capitalist system .. NO
if 50% is socialist HDBs cheap cheap but cannot rent out cannot sell to open market ... then there will be shortage of rental & rental supply liao, how to achieve 6.9m population target hah?? :beats-me-man:
6.9m done deal liao lah, LKY confirmed this in recent forum
Housing agents speak the same way as you. Please feel free to think this way if you so wish.
Amber Woods
23-03-13, 17:43
Didn't they say should be pegged to income? Otherwise they should say fair price should be 2009 price & not 4x annual salary? :doh:
2009 price was about what that matches our incomes.
thomastansb
23-03-13, 17:56
That is the truth actually. Maybe not 6.9M but I think will be somewhere close. Maybe 6.7 to 6.8M.
We have so many HDBs coming up, who will sweep the estate? Or throw the rubbish. Singaporeans?
Housing agents speak the same way as you. Please feel free to think this way if you so wish.
He hoped for a crash because he believes he will then be able to buy mt sinai property. He already own a hdb flat and living off on his parents and in-laws rental.
Greed and artificial want.
Totally, agree.
In reality, it is the greed people that want the crash.
Amber Woods
23-03-13, 18:11
That is the truth actually. Maybe not 6.9M but I think will be somewhere close. Maybe 6.7 to 6.8M.
We have so many HDBs coming up, who will sweep the estate? Or throw the rubbish. Singaporeans?
These are the workers usually live in dormitory and not PCs or HDB flats.
Amber Woods
23-03-13, 18:13
Totally, agree.
In reality, it is the greed people that want the crash.
In reality, all are the same.
He is referring to HDB. Not private. As long as HDB remains affordable, he is happy liao. Private, you have to earn more and work harder. No free lunch.
And also mentioning the silent majority of hundreds of thousands of existing home owners.
phantom_opera
23-03-13, 18:21
on the population ... of course you cannot go on to grow forever, sooner or later you reach an equilibrium ... the big problem is Singapore population is too small relative to other tigers in Asia ... therefore it is better to reach a higher point b4 settling down
In reality, all are the same.
Buy within ones means, greed cannot get one anywhere.
Amber Woods
23-03-13, 20:11
Buy within ones means, greed cannot get one anywhere.
The point of discussion is that greed applies to all people; be it those who planning to buy and hoping for a price correction and those who already bought and hoping for prices to remain firm or higher.
The point of discussion is that greed applies to all people; be it those who planning to buy and hoping for a price correction and those who already bought and hoping for prices to remain firm or higher.
Agreed. Which is why I say buy within means to be safe. Greed is one thing, need to plan for ones future.
The above example is simply to illustrate that it does not matter if we buy low and sell low because we will also get to upgrade at lower price if we choose to.
This compares with buying high and selling high and ended up having to upgrade at a higher price which resulted in us having to take a much larger loan.
Which is the better devil?
Like my example not necessary if I sell high I must take up another loan to pay. I can retire too without taking any loan.
So to retire with more cash on hand than less i.e. ur 250K buy sell 280K verse 250K buy sell 500K example.
which is the better evil? more cash on hand or less?
Amber Woods
24-03-13, 13:57
Like my example not necessary if I sell high I must take up another loan to pay. I can retire too without taking any loan.
So to retire with more cash on hand than less i.e. ur 250K buy sell 280K verse 250K buy sell 500K example.
which is the better evil? more cash on hand or less?
If this is the option available to him, would he still want to depend on encashlng his flat as an option for a better retirement? Investment is about options
If this is the option available to him, would he still want to depend on encashlng his flat as an option for a better retirement? Investment is about options
True. But for some less savy this is the only option.
thomastansb
24-03-13, 18:02
Government already gave an option to those who don't know how to invest. Buy BTO, stay > 5 years, apply 2nd BTO.
Eg: Buy at 200k 5 years back, sell 450k. Then buy now at 250k and keep the balance.
Buy low, sell high and buy low again. Regardless of cycle. But many people want to upset this system :doh:
They don't even need to know property cycle or buy low sell high and buy high again.
True. But for some less savy this is the only option.
thomastansb
24-03-13, 18:06
Investment is about knowledge and risks. You want to invest, then be prepared to lose everything. Like minibonds. If you want the safer route, buy 2 BTOs in your lifetime. You want more options or better retirement, then unfortunately, you have to do your homework. No Government will guarantee your investment. The closest I have seen is our HDB scheme. But people are complaining about it :scared-4: I hope they know what they will be getting in a few years time.
If this is the option available to him, would he still want to depend on encashlng his flat as an option for a better retirement? Investment is about options
Amber Woods
24-03-13, 18:51
True. But for some less savy this is the only option.
Investment is about knowledge and risks. You want to invest, then be prepared to lose everything. Like minibonds. If you want the safer route, buy 2 BTOs in your lifetime. You want more options or better retirement, then unfortunately, you have to do your homework. No Government will guarantee your investment. The closest I have seen is our HDB scheme. But people are complaining about it :scared-4: I hope they know what they will be getting in a few years time.
That is why for the less savy, the government has various aunnity for investment through their CPF.
That is why for the less savy, the government has various aunnity for investment through their CPF.
thats like u say is just another option. Annuity wont beat inflation much. also if have sickness? or have some major crisis need $ or want to send kid to uni etc? or start a business for some. This HDB gain also help not just retirement also some to cross the income divide. With work of course.
4 years to fully pay a flat makes our properties seem so cheap when I land is more precious than gold. QUOTE=felicia_sg]KBW said property in suburb should be about 4x their annual salary.
Since only 20% houses are private, & top 20 quantile household about $12k pm, 4 years mean That mean OCR private property eg pasir ris 1000sqft should worth about $576k, or $576 psf! Wow! But now pasir ris new launch >$1000 psf or overpriced by 73.6%! so govt going to drop private property price in pasir ris by 73.6% to achieve aim of 4x annual salary? Or since they sell land at >$500 psf, may be they can give free to developer to build private properties to achieve the aim? Or alternatively their quote of 4x annual salary is plucking figure from the air & is wrong?
I would believe that 8x annual salary is more reasonable, that make affordable private prop at pasir ris at $1.15m, or current price is absolutely affordable. Don't we see the truth already? Otherwise how to explain pasir ris condos now still can sell so fast after 8CMs? :rolleyes:[/quote]
there are 2 issues. firstly, KenoBiWan is taming HDB prices first, not private properties. secondly, singaporeans are either really cash-rich or else, motivated to purchase now for fear of CM 9,10,11,12,etc etc
there are 2 issues. firstly, KenoBiWan is taming HDB prices first, not private properties. secondly, singaporeans are either really cash-rich or else, motivated to purchase now for fear of CM 9,10,11,12,etc etc[/quote]
Agree, I also think that most people fear that further CM will deprive them from buying their dream home. The last cm is the worst which affect most Singaporeans who wants to own a 2nd ppty.
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