View Full Version : Low-cost housing curbs will only affect new buyers
SINGAPORE — National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan made it clear yesterday that if a new housing option is offered, which could see flats being priced lower than current Build-To-Order (BTO) flats, restrictions “will only apply to the new buyers, and will not apply to existing flat owners”.
Mr Khaw said this as he related how an elderly woman, who lived in Queenstown, travelled to his Meet-the-People’s Session in Sembawang on Monday, after she heard that the resale of Housing and Development Board (HDB) flats in the open market may be stopped, and that all resale transactions would be to the HDB only.
On Sunday, two days after signalling a rethink of the role and nature of public housing, Mr Khaw floated three ideas on possible restrictions to help lower the prices of new flats.
They are: Longer minimum occupation period, shorter lease and no resale in the open market.
Yesterday, Mr Khaw recounted: “She had not slept well since she heard the news ... She wanted to know if she had heard correctly.” He told the woman that she had misunderstood the media reports. While there were many calls for the HDB to “return to basics”, these would have a major impact on existing flat owners, especially the seniors, like her, the Minister added.
Mr Khaw wrote on his blog: “We want to provide affordable housing for new homeowners, especially young couples, but we will not forget the interest of the many hundreds of thousands of existing homeowners. Some plan to rely on their flat to finance retirement needs. Some hope to bequeath their flats to the next generation. Some rely on renting out a room to bring in extra cash proceeds. Their concerns matter to me too.”
And if a low-cost housing option is offered, Mr Khaw said it must come with restrictions to differentiate it from the existing BTO flats.
“Obviously, if we offer such an option, these restrictions of a longer minimum occupation period, or shorter lease or no resale in the open market will only apply to the new buyers, and will not apply to existing flat owners like the Queenstown lady,” he added.
Property analysts interviewed felt the new low-price housing option should also come with a restriction on the sublet of the units. If such a restriction is not imposed, it would “take away the essence” of the HDB’s goal of home ownership, said Mr Chris Koh, Director of Chris International.
Head of Research and Consultancy at Chesterton Suntec International Colin Tan said that shortening the lease could pose other unintended problems, such as how some banks may not provide loans to borrowers to service loans for properties which have shorter leases. This may result in older flats with longer leases appreciating in resale value, which may further impact the market, he added.
phantom_opera
16-03-13, 14:49
70y lease like China on the cards, probably with 10y MOP also
10y MOP is a long time, this will deter those high flyers from choosing 70y lease BTOs
70y lease like China on the cards, probably with 10y MOP also
10y MOP is a long time, this will deter those high flyers from choosing 70y lease BTOs
High flyers salary range at 35 yrs old unlikely to qualify. Unless their salary is not fixed or mostly unrecorded.
If singles i think 70 yrs more than enough, even 60. Because add 35 years to 70, will be 105 years old.
If they marry, then will qualify for other types of housing. So i think it makes sense.
phantom_opera
16-03-13, 17:40
this will be more political then practical to shut the mouths of critics by having a housing option that u can't monetize
70y lease like China on the cards, probably with 10y MOP also
10y MOP is a long time, this will deter those high flyers from choosing 70y lease BTOs
Wouldn't shortening the lease significantly impact the older hdb flat prices? In essence govt is quantifying the price of lease, which until now doesn't matter becos implicit assumption is govt will top up depleted lease at some stage (eg via SER). This is unlikely to be in line with their promise not to affect existing homeowners. A better solution may be tan kin Lian's one, or longer MOP. Just my 2 cents. Feel free to disagree.
edwinleeap
16-03-13, 18:33
Wouldn't shortening the lease significantly impact the older hdb flat prices? In essence govt is quantifying the price of lease, which until now doesn't matter becos implicit assumption is govt will top up depleted lease at some stage (eg via SER). This is unlikely to be in line with their promise not to affect existing homeowners. A better solution may be tan kin Lian's one, or longer MOP. Just my 2 cents. Feel free to disagree.
My real question is: how does shorter lease affect the chances of SERS?
If 60 year lease also qualify for SERS without restriction, then no difference with 99yr lease.
My real question is: how does shorter lease affect the chances of SERS?
If 60 year lease also qualify for SERS without restriction, then no difference with 99yr lease.
There are many existing old hdb precincts with large land areas but are low rise. If govt wants to intensify land use to cater to 6.9 million people, it has to SERs these areas. Too long to wait for lease to expire in 60 years time. In other words, these will still qualify for SERs without restriction and are no different from 99-yr lease. As for new class of BTO with say 60 year of lease, the chance of SERs will be low in next few decades if govt max out plot ratio right from day 1. No waste of land means limited chance for SERs.
Regulators
17-03-13, 10:26
gen y keep screaming for low cost housing, after buying they cannot sell to anyone but hdb or have mop of 10 years n cannot rent out, you think they will bite? knowing gen y, they are the type that want to have the cake n eat it n want to profit like their parents, I don't think they will go for it n would LL look for resale, in the end slapping their own mouths lol.
gen y keep screaming for low cost housing, after buying they cannot sell to anyone but hdb or have mop of 10 years n cannot rent out, you think they will bite? knowing gen y, they are the type that want to have the cake n eat it n want to profit like their parents, I don't think they will go for it n would LL look for resale, in the end slapping their own mouths lol.
I don't think all are like that. Those simply looking for a place to stay and bring up family will still take the discount.
i welcome 60LH and 10yr MOP no resale to open mkt.
gimme a 50k bto in matured estate then.
Regulators
17-03-13, 11:06
with 30% discount n all this draconian restrictions, let us wait and see how many of these gen y will go for it, it will be the minority of gen y. let me tell you why, anyone who buys will be stuck for ten years not being able to invest any other kind of property n when these gen y reach a stage when they are earning well in less than ten years, they will get frustrated about not being able to own a condo, it is just human nature to improve one's life. in fact most of these gen y that make noise can actually afford a resale with some help from parents but they just want to make noise to see what carrots govt can give them. I think kbw just doesn't understand them well enough.
I don't think all are like that. Those simply looking for a place to stay and bring up family will still take the discount.
How can 30% down of BTO affects only1st time buyer? There will be indirect impact on other hdb flats.
i welcome 60LH and 10yr MOP no resale to open mkt.
gimme a 50k bto in matured estate then.
It will have to commensurate with the discounts given.
200K 5-rm BTO with 60LH and 10yr MOP. Can stomach still.
But might have new income caps. Can only buy this if combined income does not exceed $6 or $7K.
with 30% discount n all this draconian restrictions, let us wait and see how many of these gen y will go for it, it will be the minority of gen y. let me tell you why, anyone who buys will be stuck for ten years not being able to invest any other kind of property n when these gen y reach a stage when they are earning well in less than ten years, they will get frustrated about not being able to own a condo, it is just human nature to improve one's life. in fact most of these gen y that make noise can actually afford a resale with some help from parents but they just want to make noise to see what carrots govt can give them. I think kbw just doesn't understand them well enough.
Some of those I know sincerely just want a place to stay and never thought about selling or cashing out. Even if you offer them super high price for their HDB they do not want to sell unless they are forced to.
So it depends on who you talk to...
Regulators
17-03-13, 11:26
they r in the minority
Some of those I know sincerely just want a place to stay and never thought about selling or cashing out. Even if you offer them super high price for their HDB they do not want to sell unless they are forced to.
So it depends on who you talk to...
By creating a new housing option with shorter lease and restrictions and leaving the normal BTO flats as it is means that a different 'social class' will also be created. This is against the government's efforts in wanting to close the social divide which we now experiencing.
I believe the government is only putting the various options for discussions and to gain acceptance from different shakeholders. A more socially and politically acceptable option will evolute through the discussions.
Regulators
17-03-13, 11:32
the noise makers asked to be put into that class
By creating a new housing option with shorter lease and restrictions and leaving the normal BTO flats as it is means that a different 'social class' will also be created. This is against the government's efforts in wanting to close the social divide which we now experiencing.
I believe the government is only putting the various options for discussions and to gain acceptance from different shakeholders. A more socially and politically acceptable option will evolute through the discussions.
Imo 10 years is a reasonable time frame for a normal couple with degrees to save up enough money for a 2nd investment property.
Unless both couples are thrifty and without kids, it can be done within 5 years or so.
phantom_opera
17-03-13, 11:34
what is wrong with new class of 70ylh? same as china Mah
hk has cage class leh
I for one think is very good move .. give ppl a choice.. old retirees can sell off 99lh and downgrade to 70lh
Nothing wrong with 10year MOP.
However i do not recommend shorter lease unless it is for singles above 35 or retirees.
the noise makers asked to be put into that class
The government was largely responsible for what we are today as admitted by the PM. The elected government has the duty of care to make good the wrongs.
By creating a new housing option with shorter lease and restrictions and leaving the normal BTO flats as it is means that a different 'social class' will also be created. This is against the government's efforts in wanting to close the social divide which we now experiencing.
I believe the government is only putting the various options for discussions and to gain acceptance from different shakeholders. A more socially and politically acceptable option will evolute through the discussions.
Food for thought. In the not so recent past, HDB created new housing options like DBSS, and EC. Do they not create different 'social classes' too? DBSS has since been scrapped. Why is it now that when a new more affordable housing option is being contemplated, suddenly we are bringing up 'social class'?
Food for thought. In the not so recent past, HDB created new housing options like DBSS, and EC. Do they not create different 'social classes' too? DBSS has since been scrapped. Why is it now that when a new more affordable housing option is being contemplated, suddenly we are bringing up 'social class'?
The 'social class' in question is about not having the possible option to unlift themselves while the rest of the population enjoys. This is different from DBSS and EC which cater to different needs and income levels.
The 'social class' in question is about not having the possible option to unlift themselves while the rest of the population enjoys. This is different from DBSS and EC which cater to different needs and income levels.
is there a difference? why is 'downgrading' to a new category means creating new social class while 'upgrading' to a new category is not? just semantics isnt it?
Regulators
17-03-13, 11:50
those who buy resale hdb are in the same predicament as they are tied for five years, only difference is they get to sell to open market. if you want to talk social class, isn't there already a class divide between those who live n hdb, those who in pc n those who live in gcb? even for pc, living in ardmore is a different class from this living in caspian, that is a class within a class.
The 'social class' in question is about not having the possible option to unlift themselves while the rest of the population enjoys. This is different from DBSS and EC which cater to different needs and income levels.
what is wrong with new class of 70ylh? same as china Mah
hk has cage class leh
I for one think is very good move .. give ppl a choice.. old retirees can sell off 99lh and downgrade to 70lh
Even better one : 15yr MOP 50% off, 20y , FREE ! :cool:
Seriously, if this is implemented, I can foresee a lot of ppl who buy under this scheme will make noise 5ys later when they cannot catch a booming market. I predict they will say "ok I top up the 30% and you allow me to sell now" , so this becomes a free option. Ppl are greedy , trust me on this.
is there a difference? why is 'downgrading' to a new category means creating new social class while 'upgrading' to a new category is not? just semantics isnt it?
those who buy resale hdb are in the same predicament as they are tied for five years, only difference is they get to sell to open market. if you want to talk social class, isn't there already a class divide between those who live n hdb, those who in pc n those who live in gcb?
If the new housing option does not allow some form of asset enhancement like the normal BTO flats do, then this group of people would not be able to up the value chain while the rest of the population does. This is inequality and create greater social divide which the government is trying hard to address and without much success thus far.
the noise makers asked to be put into that class
Actually the much more entertaining aspect of this is : you think these noise makers will really take it ? I would love to see KBW really doing this, giving what they ask, and see if they actually want it.
phantom_opera
17-03-13, 11:59
Even better one : 15yr MOP 50% off, 20y , FREE ! :cool:
Seriously, if this is implemented, I can foresee a lot of ppl who buy under this scheme will make noise 5ys later when they cannot catch a booming market. I predict they will say "ok I top up the 30% and you allow me to sell now" , so this becomes a free option. Ppl are greedy , trust me on this.
option to have upside only, how smart lol
If the new housing option does not allow some form of asset enhancement like the normal BTO flats do, then this group of people would not be able to up the value chain while the rest of the population does. This is inequality and create greater social divide which the government is trying hard to address and without much success thus far.
Yea sure. In short, "we want the cake, and eat it too". What's new ? :cool:
Yea sure. In short, "we want the cake, and eat it too". What's new ? :cool:
The role of any good government is to redistribute wealths fairly (or at least perceive to be fair) to its people.
Regulators
17-03-13, 12:05
they can still up the value chain by investing in another property, the biggest question govt should answer is whether the discounts given to these noise makers and the restrictions are proportionate. new home buyers could effectively be facing a double whammy, long restriction to own another pty n no enhancement in value of their hdb flat. this is a question that is not easy to answer.
If the new housing option does not allow some form of asset enhancement like the normal BTO flats do, then this group of people would not be able to up the value chain while the rest of the population does. This is inequality and create greater social divide which the government is trying hard to address and without much success thus far.
No need shorten the lease, if they can only sell back to HDB at cost, it will already warrant a 30% haircut in value.
Oh no, buy very cheap still want asset enhancement?! This is like people who buy TERM LIFE insurance expect return just like buying WHOLE LIFE insurance?! :doh:
Let's just say, buying BTO flats should be like buying WHOLE LIFE insurance where you pay much larger premium, You get return out of it and gains in future and coverage for whole life!
So the new class of cheap housing should be like buying TERM LIFE insurance where you pay very low premium, you get free high-coverage insurance (replace with "high-cost housing" for property) and ZERO return and for a shorter period of coverage! :p
If the new housing option does not allow some form of asset enhancement like the normal BTO flats do, then this group of people would not be able to up the value chain while the rest of the population does. This is inequality and create greater social divide which the government is trying hard to address and without much success thus far.
Regulators
17-03-13, 12:09
the new policy would be doing just that, but these noise makers are not dumb, I think only a small group who have zero interest in pty investment would be keen to have those restrictions imposed on them. but you and I know all youngsters will always aspire to buy a pc n waiting ten years is just too long for me personally.
Actually the much more entertaining aspect of this is : you think these noise makers will really take it ? I would love to see KBW really doing this, giving what they ask, and see if they actually want it.
"redistribute wealths fairly"? Did I hear wrong?
A democratic govt is always about giving fair chance to those from disadvantaged background in terms of education and giving them a helping hand, but never about "redistribute wealths". Think you are talking about communists who will "redistribute wealths fairly" if "fairly" means "equally" (to some people)?!
How about don't take so much salary otherwise how can that be considered as "redistribute wealths fairly"? :scared-2:
The role of any good government is to redistribute wealths fairly (or at least perceive to be fair) to its people.
they can still up the value chain by investing in another property, the biggest question govt should answer is whether the discounts given to these noise makers and the restrictions are proportionate.this is a question that is not easy to answer.
How to invest in another property for this group of people without them having to sell their HDB flats under current policy?
Like I said earlier, through the discussions of the various options, the government should come up with more equitable solution or option.
If the government could succeed in guilding the property market for a soft landing through more calibrated cooling measures, the new housing options may not even be needed.
Regulators
17-03-13, 12:15
they can still invest in pc after 10 yr mop
How to invest in another property for this group of people without them having to sell their HDB flats under current policy?
Like I said earlier, through the discussions of the various options, the government should come up with more equitable solution or option.
If the government could succeed in guilding the property market for a soft landing through more calibrated cooling measures, the new housing options may not even be needed.
they can still invest in pc after 10 yr mop
How to without the help of asset appreciation of their existing flat like the rest of the population who buy normal BTO flats?
the new policy would be doing just that, but these noise makers are not dumb, I think only a small group who have zero interest in pty investment would be keen to have those restrictions imposed on them. but you and I know all youngsters will always aspire to buy a pc n waiting ten years is just too long for me personally.
Nonetheless a worthwhile experiment KBW should take, if only for nothing but to shutting them up. Just make sure this is not a free option as I mentioned earlier jokingly.
How to without the help of asset appreciation of their existing flat like the rest of the population who buy normal BTO flats?
Then work harder in other areas ! You already have a cheap housing cost to free you from 10yrs of worry.
Are you taking it for granted that gov is "obliged" to provide a HDB bonus ?
If the new housing option does not allow some form of asset enhancement like the normal BTO flats do, then this group of people would not be able to up the value chain while the rest of the population does. This is inequality and create greater social divide which the government is trying hard to address and without much success thus far.
spore adopts a capitalistic free market economy. Such a system leads to greater inequality as wealth will over time gradually concentrates in fewer and fewer hands. This is inevitable and the reality.
the solution is not to further aggravate by encouraging asset enhancement in a different category bcos there will be no end to it. Instead the solution is to have socialistic measures to redistribute wealth and safety nets to catch those who fall through the cracks.
so while we rightly embrace a free market economy, we must also hand in hand have strong socialistic measures in place. For spore the later has been lacking for a long time going by international benchmarks.
Regulators
17-03-13, 12:24
kbw's idea of going back to the basics is to remove asset enhancement from hdb for nrw flats.
How to without the help of asset appreciation of their existing flat like the rest of the population who buy normal BTO flats?
What you said is really contradictory.... :doh:
In your earlier post, you ask govt to crash property prices cheap cheap for people (like you) to buy.
Then you say that govt must ensure asset appreciation of their existing flat?!
We all know that these don't go hand in hand, once property prices crash (especially if it is caused by govt policies), the property price will take many many years to recover and there will not be "asset appreciation" to dream of! Sounds to me another case of asking govt to crash property for them to buy cheap cheap and after they buy govt must make the prices go up high high (in the name of asset appreciation) for them to sell? :tsk-tsk:
How to without the help of asset appreciation of their existing flat like the rest of the population who buy normal BTO flats?
How to invest in another property for this group of people without them having to sell their HDB flats under current policy?
Like I said earlier, through the discussions of the various options, the government should come up with more equitable solution or option.
If the government could succeed in guilding the property market for a soft landing through more calibrated cooling measures, the new housing options may not even be needed.
Regulators
17-03-13, 12:45
actually I feel hdb should give them the option of buying flats from hdb at full market value n have only 5yr mop n can sell for profit or take the discounted long mop no asset enhancement package. this is a win win situation as it will shut noise makers for good.
Allthepies
17-03-13, 12:47
I don't think all are like that. Those simply looking for a place to stay and bring up family will still take the discount.
Those really need housing ones have already bought by buying further away from MRT and town (cheaper) or buying smaller size unit (again cheaper). Those that are screaming non-stop actually have no urgency to buy, they just want to buy cheap and sell high to make tremendous profits.:D:D
kbw's idea of going back to the basics is to remove asset enhancement from hdb for nrw flats.
Exactly! that is why I said creating a new housing option with restrictions may not be the right thing to do unless there is no normal BTO flats.
Then work harder in other areas ! You already have a cheap housing cost to free you from 10yrs of worry.
Are you taking it for granted that gov is "obliged" to provide a HDB bonus ?
Exactly! that is why the government may not want to create two different market; one for normal BTO and one with restrictions.
"redistribute wealths fairly"? Did I hear wrong?
A democratic govt is always about giving fair chance to those from disadvantaged background in terms of education and giving them a helping hand, but never about "redistribute wealths". Think you are talking about communists who will "redistribute wealths fairly" if "fairly" means "equally" (to some people)?!
How about don't take so much salary otherwise how can that be considered as "redistribute wealths fairly"? :scared-2:
I was wondering if I should response to you since you do not appear to understand economic, social and political science. I will try to make this a simple exercise for you or others who need help.
Singapore's Budget 2013 is about government collecting taxes from different sources including property tax, corporate tax, income tax COE etc etc. These revenues collected are than redistributed to the people in the form of reliefs. In our case, the poor and the middle incomers get a lot more reliefs in this Budget. This is call wealth redistribution. Deciding who can buy what such as HDB flats and private properties is also part of wealth redistribution.
In our case, the government taxes the rich more and this is perceived as fair in the eyes of most members of society. Of course, there will always be some rich guys who feel unfair. There will also some poor guys who think the government should give more. What is important in our capitalist sysstem is for the government to redistribute wealth fairly and people are happy as a whole.
What you said is really contradictory.... :doh:
In your earlier post, you ask govt to crash property prices cheap cheap for people (like you) to buy.
Then you say that govt must ensure asset appreciation of their existing flat?!
We all know that these don't go hand in hand, once property prices crash (especially if it is caused by govt policies), the property price will take many many years to recover and there will not be "asset appreciation" to dream of! Sounds to me another case of asking govt to crash property for them to buy cheap cheap and after they buy govt must make the prices go up high high (in the name of asset appreciation) for them to sell? :tsk-tsk:
First, you did not understand what is wealth redistribution and hence misunderstood my writings. Your misunderstanding further lead you to misquote me entirely.
I am afraid I could not response to you any further. It is tiring and least enjoying trying to engage with you.
spore adopts a capitalistic free market economy. Such a system leads to greater inequality as wealth will over time gradually concentrates in fewer and fewer hands. This is inevitable and the reality.
the solution is not to further aggravate by encouraging asset enhancement in a different category bcos there will be no end to it. Instead the solution is to have socialistic measures to redistribute wealth and safety nets to catch those who fall through the cracks.
so while we rightly embrace a free market economy, we must also hand in hand have strong socialistic measures in place. For spore the later has been lacking for a long time going by international benchmarks.
You pointed out a very serious issue we are facing and that is the increasing inequality that is wdening the social divide. Singapore's model is more like the US and indeed we are seeing the government being 'forcely' geared towards the European's model. Perhaps, this what economists termed as economic evolution. The system that brought us success in the past decades is no longer useful given the new economic developments and demograhpic changes as we become first world country.
Everyone take the same salary while doing different work?:confused:
"redistribute wealths fairly"? Did I hear wrong?
A democratic govt is always about giving fair chance to those from disadvantaged background in terms of education and giving them a helping hand, but never about "redistribute wealths". Think you are talking about communists who will "redistribute wealths fairly" if "fairly" means "equally" (to some people)?!
How about don't take so much salary otherwise how can that be considered as "redistribute wealths fairly"? :scared-2:
People has realised that they have paid a social cost for the success of Singapore and yet still cannot have a better life. Tat is the problem. :cheers1:
You pointed out a very serious issue we are facing and that is the increasing inequality that is wdening the social divide. Singapore's model is more like the US and indeed we are seeing the government being 'forcely' geared towards the European's model. Perhaps, this what economists termed as economic evolution. The system that brought us success in the past decades is no longer useful given the new economic developments and demograhpic changes as we become first world country.
People has realised that they have paid a social cost for the success of Singapore and yet still cannot have a better life. Tat is the problem. :cheers1:
Indeed, thats' appear to be the case
How can 30% down of BTO affects only1st time buyer? There will be indirect impact on other hdb flats.
agree.
If the lease is shorted to 60 years, the chance of SERS will be reduced greatly. some people will hesitate to bite it. Of course, if the rental is very attractive, people will go for it and hold for rental.
if the MOP is extended to 10 years, I doubt if there is sufficient demand.
In this case, i will tell my children to forget about HDB, and I believe HDB price will naturally drop 30%.
If the new housing option does not allow some form of asset enhancement like the normal BTO flats do, then this group of people would not be able to up the value chain while the rest of the population does. This is inequality and create greater social divide which the government is trying hard to address and without much success thus far.
At the end of the day, aren't you basically asking for a cheaper (30% discount) entry price from current level. Once you have entered the ppty boat, you want 'asset enhancement' to move up the social ladder. Since, you (or the group of people you r talking about) believe in asset enhancement, it doesn't matter what prices are now, it will be enhanced anyway. So technically, there isn't a need for 30% price reduction since it will increase eventually anyway to current level. Or we then going to discount 30% again?
Always be careful what you ask for. Once a person is on-board the ppty boat, they will be calling for the unwinding of CMs.
want asset enhancement, then go buy a 300-400k hdb flat at sengkang. there's a lot happening at seletar and tanah merah nowadays. stop day dreaming of buying it at a 30% discount and double your money after MOP.
want asset enhancement, then go buy a 300-400k hdb flat at sengkang. there's a lot happening at seletar and tanah merah nowadays. stop day dreaming of buying it at a 30% discount and double your money after MOP.
The tone of forummers here are starkly different from those who post on kbw's blog. So many people there are crying out sob stories, lobbying for this and that. We know their intent is to ask for bigger bites of the cherry, and not many are genuine hardship cases. just want bigger profit margins after MOP, as you suggested.
My worry is that the govt, in trying to please the complainers go too far in its policy adjustments, or make lots of promises that benefit the young but are detrimental for overall population over the long run.
The tone of forummers here are starkly different from those who post on kbw's blog. So many people there are crying out sob stories, lobbying for this and that. We know their intent is to ask for bigger bites of the cherry, and not many are genuine hardship cases. just want bigger profit margins after MOP, as you suggested.
My worry is that the govt, in trying to please the complainers go too far in its policy adjustments, or make lots of promises that benefit the young but are detrimental for overall population over the long run.
Ask kbw's ofice boys and girls at mnd to pop by here.:spliff:
That's why Mr Khaw says we must consider hdb role.
Are ppl buying hdb to live or just to rent out? What should we encourage or discourage?
Regulators
17-03-13, 21:16
at least kbw has the sense to want to impose restrictions on discounted purchases n not allow these noise makers to have everything their way.
The tone of forummers here are starkly different from those who post on kbw's blog. So many people there are crying out sob stories, lobbying for this and that. We know their intent is to ask for bigger bites of the cherry, and not many are genuine hardship cases. just want bigger profit margins after MOP, as you suggested.
My worry is that the govt, in trying to please the complainers go too far in its policy adjustments, or make lots of promises that benefit the young but are detrimental for overall population over the long run.
gen y keep screaming for low cost housing, after buying they cannot sell to anyone but hdb or have mop of 10 years n cannot rent out, you think they will bite? knowing gen y, they are the type that want to have the cake n eat it n want to profit like their parents, I don't think they will go for it n would LL look for resale, in the end slapping their own mouths lol.
agree with you, they see other hdb price keep going up whereas their 70 yr lease must sell back to whatever hdb price set.
hdb just set back at same price as what they paid will do them a great favour
People complain that govt is not doing enough to bring the ppty prices down but in fact, I think govt has been trying their best to do it, if not there won't be so many cm after one another. Complain somemore, govt will impose more taxes, stamp duties/levy and more restrictions, in the end who benefit it, addn revenue will go to govt, will the prices for that ppty that you are eyeing of drop?
I think we must really find out the source, what causes the ppty prices to keep going up, is it due to so many foreign immigrants that we are taking in too fast.
Nothing is fair in this world, we cannot expect the total fairness in this society, if not there won't have rich, average and poor people. Sometimes is the luck, hardwork etc that segregate the poor and the rich. There are people who are from poor family but they know how to make use of their money to generate more revenue, in the end, they earn their 1st pot of gold. I save for 10 yrs before I can pay my downpayment for my 2nd ppty, I don't earn much and I'm not spendthrift, I only go to restaurants for my meals when there are special occasions and I don't buy branded goods. Some people, when they have money, they will start to spend this and that, some even use future money (ie credit card). Do you think this type of people have any savings?
May be some forumers here can cut and paste what are being discussed here into KBW's blog to let him know the truth that many of those crying sob stories just want to buy at 30% discount from current market price of BTO and yet is already talking about govt (and hence KBW)'s job to provide asset enhancement (after they have bought)?!
The tone of forummers here are starkly different from those who post on kbw's blog. So many people there are crying out sob stories, lobbying for this and that. We know their intent is to ask for bigger bites of the cherry, and not many are genuine hardship cases. just want bigger profit margins after MOP, as you suggested.
My worry is that the govt, in trying to please the complainers go too far in its policy adjustments, or make lots of promises that benefit the young but are detrimental for overall population over the long run.
At the end of the day, aren't you basically asking for a cheaper (30% discount) entry price from current level. Once you have entered the ppty boat, you want 'asset enhancement' to move up the social ladder. Since, you (or the group of people you r talking about) believe in asset enhancement, it doesn't matter what prices are now, it will be enhanced anyway. So technically, there isn't a need for 30% price reduction since it will increase eventually anyway to current level. Or we then going to discount 30% again?
Always be careful what you ask for. Once a person is on-board the ppty boat, they will be calling for the unwinding of CMs.
There isn't a need to create an alternative housing if the option is too restrictive to the extend that it widens our social divide.
Is there a need for a price reduction? The government thinks so, many people hope so. Economic is at work all the time and the cycle continues.
People complain that govt is not doing enough to bring the ppty prices down but in fact, I think govt has been trying their best to do it, if not there won't be so many cm after one another. Complain somemore, govt will impose more taxes, stamp duties/levy and more restrictions, in the end who benefit it, addn revenue will go to govt, will the prices for that ppty that you are eyeing of drop?
I think we must really find out the source, what causes the ppty prices to keep going up, is it due to so many foreign immigrants that we are taking in too fast.
Nothing is fair in this world, we cannot expect the total fairness in this society, if not there won't have rich, average and poor people. Sometimes is the luck, hardwork etc that segregate the poor and the rich. There are people who are from poor family but they know how to make use of their money to generate more revenue, in the end, they earn their 1st pot of gold. I save for 10 yrs before I can pay my downpayment for my 2nd ppty, I don't earn much and I'm not spendthrift, I only go to restaurants for my meals when there are special occasions and I don't buy branded goods. Some people, when they have money, they will start to spend this and that, some even use future money (ie credit card). Do you think this type of people have any savings?
Take a look at he show flat these days. All are singaporean buyers. Many Singaporean have $ to plonk in. While other singaporean blame ah kong or foreigners. Local buyers are the one chasing up the private market.
How to be an all-inclusive society? Look at the proposed childcare centre at punggol. :doh: People are self-centred and think everyone out there owe them a living. :banghead:
Agree with Irising. Nothing is fair. I have a friend whose late father passed him a few hundred k. I have been hinting to him that 2010/2011 property price still reasonable, should invest. He didn't buy any property thinking living in HDB with his mum is good enough and why take the risk? Now he is keen but chicken out last minute.
I have seen friends and colleagues just spend $ on holidays (few times per year) and good food. When talk about voting. They blame the govt and always complaint 1m HDB in Queestown/ Bishan. They simply avoid talking BTO flat in non-mature estate.
Ironic isn't it?
I was like that before until I start to open up my mind with books, seminars, and having friends who are investors.
Agree with Irising. Nothing is fair. I have a friend whose late father passed him a few hundred k. I have been hinting to him that 2010/2011 property price still reasonable, should invest. He didn't buy any property thinking living in HDB with his mum is good enough and why take the risk? Now he is keen but chicken out last minute.
I have seen friends and colleagues just spend $ on holidays (few times per year) and good food. When talk about voting. They blame the govt and always complaint 1m HDB in Queestown/ Bishan. They simply avoid talking BTO flat in non-mature estate.
Ironic isn't it?
Rich/poor and positive/negative mentality.
Take a look at he show flat these days. All are singaporean buyers. Many Singaporean have $ to plonk in. While other singaporean blame ah kong or foreigners. Local buyers are the one chasing up the private market.
I wonder who are those who bought the resale HDB flats? Is it most of them are Singaporeans or PR? The prices for the resale HDB flats are really ridiculous. Singaporeans are lucky, they can buy direct from HDB at a subsidize price, then sell high high, with the profit, they invest in pte ppty or they rent out their HDB and use it to finance their 2nd ppty. Who normally do HDB owners rent it too, Singaporeans or foreigners?
I have a friend whose late father passed him a few hundred k. I have been hinting to him that 2010/2011 property price still reasonable, should invest. He didn't buy any property thinking living in HDB with his mum is good enough and why take the risk? Now he is keen but chicken out last minute.
I have seen friends and colleagues just spend $ on holidays (few times per year) and good food. When talk about voting. They blame the govt and always complaint 1m HDB in Queestown/ Bishan. They simply avoid talking BTO flat in non-mature estate.
Ironic isn't it?
I have a friend too, staying in 3 rooms HDB flat near Queenstown, spend lots of money buying 4-D and sometimes borrow money to go to China to pray.:doh:
My father had a landed at Hougang and sold away for $70k only. At that time, I was still young, just came out to work only, so no money to buy from him. In fact, i have missed out a lot of boats but what to do, cannot complain lah, blame on my luck lor.
I was like that before until I start to open up my mind with books, seminars, and having friends who are investors.
When I just got married, I always tell my husband if I have money, I will rather invest in ppty than cars but I didn't take it seriously and just let the years pass by. At that time, I was eyeing on 1 ppty at Tanglin Halt and the selling price was only $180k.:scared-1: I was thinking of buying but my husband didn't want to commit leh:banghead: .
Regulators
18-03-13, 17:03
what is wrong with high private property prices when it forms only 1x% of Singapore housing. like cars, private property is a luxury item in Singapore n an aspiration, not a right for all Singaporeans. the property debate should be concerned about public housing.
Take a look at he show flat these days. All are singaporean buyers. Many Singaporean have $ to plonk in. While other singaporean blame ah kong or foreigners. Local buyers are the one chasing up the private market.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.