View Full Version : Property prices not yet at an acceptable level: Tharman
The Straits Times
www.straitstimes.comPublished on Mar 01, 2013
Property prices not yet at an acceptable level: Tharman
By Fiona Chan
PROPERTY prices in Singapore still have "some ways to go" before they reach an acceptable level, according to Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam.
"We're still in a wrong part of the cycle," he told Bloomberg Television in an interview on Thursday.
Mr Tharman said the process of property prices becoming appropriate would "happen through a combination of income improvement, as well as prices certainly not going up further".
"Some correction in prices will not be out of order," he added.
The wage credit scheme will help to up the income, as long as the currebt cooling measure still in place, price will become more appropriate. Wats next after appropriate? Mkt cheong lah!
proud owner
01-03-13, 23:22
The Straits Times
www.straitstimes.comPublished (http://www.straitstimes.comPublished) on Mar 01, 2013
Property prices not yet at an acceptable level: Tharman
By Fiona Chan
PROPERTY prices in Singapore still have "some ways to go" before they reach an acceptable level, according to Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam.
"We're still in a wrong part of the cycle," he told Bloomberg Television in an interview on Thursday.
Mr Tharman said the process of property prices becoming appropriate would "happen through a combination of income improvement, as well as prices certainly not going up further".
"Some correction in prices will not be out of order," he added.
why he never made these statements before ?
Cm8 coming?
or is he planning to up everybody's income?? hurray!
The Straits Times
www.straitstimes.comPublished on Mar 01, 2013
Property prices not yet at an acceptable level: Tharman
By Fiona Chan
PROPERTY prices in Singapore still have "some ways to go" before they reach an acceptable level, according to Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam.
"We're still in a wrong part of the cycle," he told Bloomberg Television in an interview on Thursday.
Mr Tharman said the process of property prices becoming appropriate would "happen through a combination of income improvement, as well as prices certainly not going up further".
"Some correction in prices will not be out of order," he added.
I think this is the strongest and clearest direction from the gahment about property prices in near to medium term. They want a correction and they will get it... be it CM8, 9 or 10.
Once prices start to fall, we might see more sellers heading to sell off their units in anticipation for the correction.
The key is to find out what is an "acceptable" price level. If one can discover the acceptable level, then one's property investment strategy can be fine tuned towards this acceptable level.
Did the Minister meant really that our property price level is out of sync with the economic growth?
As far as I am aware, our GDP had already been hammered due to the many cooling measures and labor tightening. I had expected a higher growth of 3%.
If so is the case, what will happen if World's economy recovers from March this year? Would the cooling measures be removed ? Or would the price levels then be acceptable?
Also, which property segment ( condos or landed ) did he exactly mean or did he mean price levels in general?
Many questions for me to ponder :)
propertyhans
02-03-13, 07:08
Did the Minister meant really that our property price level is out of sync with the economic growth?
As far as I am aware, our GDP had already been hammered due to the many cooling measures and labor tightening. I had expected a higher growth of 3%.
If so is the case, what will happen if World's economy recovers from March this year? Would the cooling measures be removed ? Or would the price levels then be acceptable?
Also, which property segment ( condos or landed ) did he exactly mean or did he mean price levels in general?
Many questions for me to ponder :)
Dun need to waste brain cells. Minister was trying to buy a landed and found prices too high la...so its unacceptable. Dun think minister will buy condo or hdb. Haha.
I feel that the govt is giving the citizens exactly what they asked for...be it lower coe, lesser ft and then lower house prices so that we will suffer and then in 2016 we will be BEGGING for 10million ppl, higher coe and higher house prices.
Then they will say guniangs...told u so! Who ask u to keep listening to co driver. U still want more co drivers? This is what will happen. Haha!
as good as saying gold is yet to explode to the level we expect..:p
smellyfish
02-03-13, 07:41
welll, the statement then begs the question what is an acceptable level. a minister cannnot just make this statement and left it hanging:banghead:
they say so many times already lah.
He wants to raise income to close the GAP???
he must be dreaming lah... our property market cheong up 100% in the past few years.... how can income catch up?
He is not stupid. He knows the only way is to drop property prices but too scared to say up front. Say "Some correction in prices will not be out of order,"
I think the government realised half stop measures will not work. That is why the recent car loan changes and CM is quite drastic. I really wonder who will buy a property now...
welll, the statement then begs the question what is an acceptable level. a minister cannnot just make this statement and left it hanging:banghead:
More like straits times left it hanging there. Tharman said a lot more so maybe better not to just rely on secondary sources.
See video for full interview.
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/singapore-s-fm-on-preventing-asset-bubbles-_NTE7fOzQPeQ_Ua88ckGBA.html
The key is to find out what is an "acceptable" price level. If one can discover the acceptable level, then one's property investment strategy can be fine tuned towards this acceptable level.
I don't think he will ever reveal that "level". But for sure, he wants to arrest price growth and maybe initiate a moderate price correction (without jeopardizing our banking industry) at least until GDP and income can catch up.:2cents:
Allthepies
02-03-13, 08:16
Once FT reduce, housing demand drop, the next step is to enlarge the ban on the type of hdb that can be rented out. This will indirect out lead to a further drop in hdb price. HDB will slowly revert to its basic function of owner occupation, less of an appreciating asset. This is what the people wanted.
HDB will slowly revert to its basic function of owner occupation, less of an appreciating asset. This is what the people wanted.
I think you need to qualify it with "some people" instead. Have you look at the latest stats about buyer of private properties majority being HDB owners? They definitely want HDB to be an appreciating asset so that they can afford their upgrade.
phantom_opera
02-03-13, 08:34
wage inflation will support prices, family median income up 7.5pc in 2012
another 7pc or more in 2013 likely
gls price still firm, no sign of softening
hk and shanghai dragon heads we dragon tail
I think the government is going to complete the combo on the property like what I have say earlier... They have already flank in on the property owners slowly without them knowing it. Now is to surround them and go for the kill.
Low interest rate environment and promise of high upside is the bait used to lure potential buyers into the net.
SSD is used to close up the escape route of buyers. ABSD is used to further reduce the chances of escaping of buyers.
The final few step is clear. Increase tax and interest rate. Both are within the power of the government. People always look at interest rate in USA and think that Singapore government cannot do anything to it. But they must remember, the government can anytime say they will not use US interest rate for our loans.
wage inflation will support prices, family median income up 7.5pc in 2012l
Income and property price growth aside, it is obvious that the government is not even comfortable with our current property price level. At the minimum , they want to put a freeze on any more price appreciation and perhaps even fashion some sort of correction.
they say so many times already lah.
He wants to raise income to close the GAP???
he must be dreaming lah... our property market cheong up 100% in the past few years.... how can income catch up?
He is not stupid. He knows the only way is to drop property prices but too scared to say up front. Say "Some correction in prices will not be out of order,"
I think the government realised half stop measures will not work. That is why the recent car loan changes and CM is quite drastic. I really wonder who will buy a property now...
probably up salary 1-2% every few years? not sure if this is possible or not... definitely will hurt alot of private companies..
And, govt can always 'tank' with minor correction and give reason like due to limited land etc.. all kind of excuses to justify the high price..
sad but the hard truth is no way govt will give in to big correction. :o ..even they do, those developers buying land at rocket high price will not let go too.. :o
I believe one can still sell those OCR condos not under CM to enhance them to a single big CCR unit. In this case, still not under the CM7 except you have to wait another further 4 years to sell the new unit :)
I believe one can still sell those OCR condos not under CM to enhance them to a single big CCR unit. In this case, still not under the CM7 except you have to wait another further 4 years to sell the new unit :)
meaning you realise all your profits and use a portion to buy only one single CCR unit for own stay as well as for investment. this means you own only 1 property so not under CM7 but only have to pay if you sell the new unit within 4 years :)
meaning you realise all your profits and use a portion to buy only one single CCR unit for own stay as well as for investment. this means you own only 1 property so not under CM7 but only have to pay if you sell the new unit within 4 years :)
obviously you will save on the new property tax regulations as well ;)
probably up salary 1-2% every few years? not sure if this is possible or not... definitely will hurt alot of private companies..
And, govt can always 'tank' with minor correction and give reason like due to limited land etc.. all kind of excuses to justify the high price..
sad but the hard truth is no way govt will give in to big correction. :o ..even they do, those developers buying land at rocket high price will not let go too.. :o
salary up 1-2% can't even keep pace with inflation. in real wage terms it is called a real wage drop.
phantom_opera
02-03-13, 10:00
since EP min salary is 3.2k now .. local graduates will ask for 4k ..family income starts at 8k , after 3y 10k cannot buy BTOs must either go for EC or PC
housing so affordable lol
obviously you will save on the new property tax regulations as well ;)
not only reducing your risks in property investment, you are actually realising paper gains which could vanish if not careful. when you find one very good unit to stay in and invest, you will not loose out on any property bull run. but you will also not be affected by any crash ;)
salary up 1-2% can't even keep pace with inflation. in real wage terms it is called a real wage drop.
we know inflation will continue to go up for these few years..
what are the chances of 2% wage increase for every 3 years? possible?
how bad will this increase affect the private companies business?
If inflation stays at 4% per year for 5 years, it will be 23% in 5 years.... So property prices staying stagnant for 5 years means prices actually drop 20%?
probably up salary 1-2% every few years? not sure if this is possible or not... definitely will hurt alot of private companies..
And, govt can always 'tank' with minor correction and give reason like due to limited land etc.. all kind of excuses to justify the high price..
sad but the hard truth is no way govt will give in to big correction. :o ..even they do, those developers buying land at rocket high price will not let go too.. :o
developer has to sell completely within 5 years.
phantom_opera
02-03-13, 10:13
roly simi 2pc increase .. min also 6 to 10 lah
....
The final few step is clear. Increase tax and interest rate. Both are within the power of the government. People always look at interest rate in USA and think that Singapore government cannot do anything to it. But they must remember, the government can anytime say they will not use US interest rate for our loans.
How does Singapore government determine the SIBOR/SOR?
if Singapore government bonds higher coupon rate, SIBOR/SOR higher?
obviously you will save on the new property tax regulations as well ;)
when you have one property, you merely end up selling high and buying high or selling low and buying low. the profits are all theoretical until the day you sell it and move to the HDB or migrate.
An acceptable level of price increase is now set at the new bar of 30% pa.
Your expectations have been pwned by the 40% wage increment perceived to come.
Smart move by the govt.
Everyone HUAT ah!
phantom_opera
02-03-13, 14:02
hk, china, oz, nz, taipei,Bombay politicians all say price not acceptable .. who will say acceptable
sg mm and rental support will come from min EP requirement of 3.2k and new breed citizen graduates who ask for min 4kpm
hdb and mm best of the best now especially near major REIT mall who always enhance their asset to boost yield
job market is boiling now ad MOM is asking 20 to 30pc higher to qualify for EPs
Only one way to go.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CieF_QjxFcQ/TY_WFCRc2wI/AAAAAAAAEBQ/oA-XvP_nQNs/s1600/up%2Bmovie%2Bposter%2Bcarl%2Bfredricksen%2Bpixar%2Bballoons%2Bdisney%2Banimation.jpg
we know inflation will continue to go up for these few years..
what are the chances of 2% wage increase for every 3 years? possible?
how bad will this increase affect the private companies business?
Will you stay in a job where the economy is decent and inflation is 5% but your increment is only 2% per year? Unless every year the bonus is 12 months perhaps. Haha.
You will need multiple sources of income in this new economy.
Will you stay in a job where the economy is decent and inflation is 5% but your increment is only 2% per year? Unless every year the bonus is 12 months perhaps. Haha.
Just like a a380 with 4 turbines. The more the merrier.
You will need multiple sources of income in this new economy.
must prepare for the worst liao :o
must prepare for the worst liao :o
those who haven't must be foolhardy.
Actually the message very clear -
1. Income will raise ( but they got limitation to do much)
2. Property price must Down , down , down ( they can do a lot to crash it, but also aware they will made many unhappy, however when interest rate raise or another financial crises + CM 1 to CM7 .... = A Perfect Storm )
Really thinking should sell 1-2 units here to buy overseas project, as Indonesia, Thailand, especially Iskandar Malaysia rental yield are higher also cheaper.
But there alway unknow risk at these country :beats-me-man:
Actually the message very clear -
1. Income will raise ( but they got limitation to do much)
2. Property price must Down , down , down ( they can do a lot to crash it, but also aware they will made many unhappy, however when interest rate raise or another financial crises + CM 1 to CM7 .... = A Perfect Storm )
Really thinking should sell 1-2 units here to buy overseas project, as Indonesia, Thailand, especially Iskandar Malaysia rental yield are higher also cheaper.
But there alway unknow risk at these country :beats-me-man:
If there is financial crisis it would be CM7 to CM0 rollback..followed by -HM1 to -HM7..no need to worry
HM: Heating measure :D:D:D:D
More like straits times left it hanging there. Tharman said a lot more so maybe better not to just rely on secondary sources.
See video for full interview.
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/singapore-s-fm-on-preventing-asset-bubbles-_NTE7fOzQPeQ_Ua88ckGBA.html
Watched the video. Agreed he said more. Wage increase, supply and some correction to achieve what gov wants.. He mentioned about price-income level being out of sync so it's clear it's time to up wages..
wage goes up means cost also go up loh. So if u think still do same things but pay increase ;)
then the pay increase will have to impact coz inflation will makan it away. so better be ready to do more for the more wage. If not the feeling will be LPPL.
....sometimes such words from the people up there will have cooling effects as people start speculating - like what is happening here...
....sometimes such words from the people up there will have cooling effects as people start speculating - like what is happening here...
there will be a parliament budget debate next week, let's hear what the MPs have to say about the property taxation cooling measures. I am very interested to know their personal opinion on this as I believe most are property owners :)
since EP min salary is 3.2k now .. local graduates will ask for 4k ..family income starts at 8k , after 3y 10k cannot buy BTOs must either go for EC or PC
housing so affordable lol
you are looking at household income from a graduate couple. what about those graduate couples staying with chairperson paternal parents and with 2 paternal siblings who are working graduates too? I estimate the household income to be much higher :)
Watched the video. Agreed he said more. Wage increase, supply and some correction to achieve what gov wants.. He mentioned about price-income level being out of sync so it's clear it's time to up wages..
private properties target market is the top quartile. so if he intends to raise the income of the top quartile as well, that's quite nice of him. heh.
Follow closely from tharman and KbW and you will be able to know what is the next CM. Has implemented for the cars with more cash upfront. It will also be implemented for all properties 1st timer and investors with restriction of home loan like amount. Bank will be very upset as their earning will be reduced. QUOTE=Leo.Cheng]there will be a parliament budget debate next week, let's hear what the MPs have to say about the property taxation cooling measures. I am very interested to know their personal opinion on this as I believe most are property owners :)[/QUOTE]
phantom_opera
03-03-13, 10:27
just now went to suntec food republic prices of Yong soon soy milk up 10c to 1.60 and other stalls prices up also
I can also say rental price of REIT unacceptable
if u go china their malls always empty also high price due to high land cost, never say anything also
teddybear is right..they are just double standard ??
I went breadtalk bought bread, all breads went up by 10 cts to 20 cts! :doh:
They so concern about private property prices and rentals? But private property rentals only up <50% in past 10 years, but commercial / industrial / retail rental gone up by >300% in past 10 years! The prices also gone up by >100% in past 10 years! Wow! But strangely, we don't see cooling measures for commercial / industrial / retail properties & rentals!
just now went to suntec food republic prices of Yong soon soy milk up 10c to 1.60 and other stalls prices up also
I can also say rental price of REIT unacceptable
if u go china their malls always empty also high price due to high land cost, never say anything also
teddybear is right..they are just double standard ??
Correction:
commercial / industrial / retail RENTAL gone up by >100% in past 6 years!
commercial / industrial / retail PRICES gone up by >100% in past 6 years!
I went breadtalk bought bread, all breads went up by 10 cts to 20 cts! :doh:
They so concern about private property prices and rentals? But private property rentals only up <50% in past 10 years, but commercial / industrial / retail rental gone up by >300% in past 10 years! The prices also gone up by >100% in past 10 years! Wow! But strangely, we don't see cooling measures for commercial / industrial / retail properties & rentals!
Originally Posted by phantom_opera
just now went to suntec food republic prices of Yong soon soy milk up 10c to 1.60 and other stalls prices up also
I can also say rental price of REIT unacceptable
if u go china their malls always empty also high price due to high land cost, never say anything also
teddybear is right..they are just double standard ??
Ok ok, below too generalized and based on my perception, so some rubbish people will try to "rubbish" me off, now I check and provide facts, irrefutable facts! :p
According to the data I have on hand, it says:
Since 2009Q3, (over past 3+ years), Industrial PPI +102.8% vs residential PPI +34.9% !!!
Come on! Businemen needs the industrial property prices and rentals low so that inflation will not be shoot up, which in turn will be passed down to consumers.
Look at Residential PPI that has increased by 34.9% over past 3+ years, we get 7 Cooling measures!
Look at Industrial PPI (Property Price Index) increassed by 102.8% over 3+ years, we get 1 half-baked cooling measure (3years SSD) only!!!
As I said before, 3 years SSD is not really cooling measure if people are buying new launch as by the time the property is ready, 3 years is over! What cooling measure is that?! :rolleyes:
What is your conclusion based on the above facts? :doh:
Is it any wonder Breadtalk up prices by 5%-10% recently?!
Correction:
commercial / industrial / retail RENTAL gone up by >100% in past 6 years!
commercial / industrial / retail PRICES gone up by >100% in past 6 years!
I went breadtalk bought bread, all breads went up by 10 cts to 20 cts! :doh:
They so concern about private property prices and rentals? But private property rentals only up <50% in past 10 years, but commercial / industrial / retail rental gone up by >300% in past 10 years! The prices also gone up by >100% in past 10 years! Wow! But strangely, we don't see cooling measures for commercial / industrial / retail properties & rentals!
phantom_opera[/b]]
just now went to suntec food republic prices of Yong soon soy milk up 10c to 1.60 and other stalls prices up also
I can also say rental price of REIT unacceptable
if u go china their malls always empty also high price due to high land cost, never say anything also
teddybear is right..they are just double standard ??
It's a wonder coz their bread prices should have upped like 100% more like!
thomastansb
03-03-13, 16:40
Bread also affected by increasing commodity costs. Anyway, I agree with commercial rental. It is way too high. The Government has to find some way to lower it.
phantom_opera
03-03-13, 16:46
due to low income tax sg must tax u on item like car
if one month 2k cost of owning a car is more than one million
can buy two ocr mms
those middle class who bought cars last few months must shout new rule as unacceptable
Cm7 intro industrial Ssd
then investment money refocus park back at good old residential property market ? Then another CM into residential market again heh :(
due to low income tax sg must tax u on item like car
if one month 2k cost of owning a car is more than one million
can buy two ocr mms
those middle class who bought cars last few months must shout new rule as unacceptable
case in point: my colleague just bought a VW Jetta in December 2012. Super foul mood now, dun dare to even go near him these days until he simmer down a bit post the recent car CM :scared-3:
We need a hard reset... HDB will need a harder reset... Target value should be at mid point of 07 and 12 prices.
We need a hard reset... HDB will need a harder reset... Target value should be at mid point of 07 and 12 prices.
Then u need a real recession
Then u need a real recession
thats not going to happen ... and u can imagine there will be more issues to worry about if that happens :(
phantom_opera
03-03-13, 19:38
hard reset? be prepared for REITs to crash 70pc
in eunos hawker sugar cane juice without ice 1.30, bedok is $2, vivo probably $3
sugar cane juice is enhanced by REIT lol
phantom_opera
03-03-13, 20:46
is Beijing's air acceptable??
how about a can of fresh air for 80 cents
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/03/air%20for%20sale.jpg
In order for a good recession to hit Singapore property market, you need a series combination of hard attacks instead of 1 or 2.
In order for a good recession to hit Singapore property market, you need a series combination of hard attacks instead of 1 or 2.
Already CM7 plus property tax on residential property. Is it not a a series combination of hard attacks?
Why don't they have a series of cooling measures on industry/commercial instead of 1 half-baked cooling measure to help the business now. All these high rental costs will be passed down to consumers leading to high inflation here.
Already CM7 plus property tax on residential property. Is it not a a series combination of hard attacks?
Why don't they have a series of cooling measures on industry/commercial instead of 1 half-baked cooling measure to help the business now. All these high rental costs will be passed down to consumers leading to high inflation here.
You really think that is enough to cool the market?
If that is not enough to cool private residential,
then a lot more severe cooling measures must be need for industrial properties isn't it? :beats-me-man:
Remember,
Since 2009Q3, (over past 3+ years), Industrial PPI +102.8% (1 cooling measure) vs residential PPI +34.9% (7 cooling measures) !!!
You really think that is enough to cool the market?
Dun need to waste brain cells. Minister was trying to buy a landed and found prices too high la...so its unacceptable. Dun think minister will buy condo or hdb. Haha.
I feel that the govt is giving the citizens exactly what they asked for...be it lower coe, lesser ft and then lower house prices so that we will suffer and then in 2016 we will be BEGGING for 10million ppl, higher coe and higher house prices.
Then they will say guniangs...told u so! Who ask u to keep listening to co driver. U still want more co drivers? This is what will happen. Haha!
i suspect this too.
Actually the message very clear -
1. Income will raise ( but they got limitation to do much)
2. Property price must Down , down , down ( they can do a lot to crash it, but also aware they will made many unhappy, however when interest rate raise or another financial crises + CM 1 to CM7 .... = A Perfect Storm )
Really thinking should sell 1-2 units here to buy overseas project, as Indonesia, Thailand, especially Iskandar Malaysia rental yield are higher also cheaper.
But there alway unknow risk at these country :beats-me-man:
govt has no intention to crash the mkt. it does no good for anyone, be it bank or GLS. correction yes. not crash.
case in point: my colleague just bought a VW Jetta in December 2012. Super foul mood now, dun dare to even go near him these days until he simmer down a bit post the recent car CM :scared-3:
he should have seen it come. i have advised everyone around me not to touch cars at all during high COE period. if really need to buy, get a 6-7 yr old B&B car. anyway, now that it has been announced, we just wait for the plunge.
buy VW is largi jialat one. becoz the car got perennial problem. imagine after 2-3 yrs you wannt give up on the car, but can only export at scrap value becoz coe is 30k by then.
like i said before, a property cycle is around 4 to 5 years. but it can also be 10 years relentless price appreciation.
:)
like i said before, a property cycle is around 4 to 5 years. but it can also be 10 years relentless price appreciation.
:)
you said or BJ21 said?
i just hope we are not in that 10 years cycle.
:):) :):):):)
you said or BJ21 said?
BJ21 said before he collapsed last week . I said a few days ago in this forum.
:)
btw, i hope you guys can clean up your minds after listening to a manaic for so long. especially one that is possessed by the Dark Angel.
:) :) :) :) :) :)
A car workshop told me his brother one VW recently and got some signal issue. Is it really so bad?
he should have seen it come. i have advised everyone around me not to touch cars at all during high COE period. if really need to buy, get a 6-7 yr old B&B car. anyway, now that it has been announced, we just wait for the plunge.
buy VW is largi jialat one. becoz the car got perennial problem. imagine after 2-3 yrs you wannt give up on the car, but can only export at scrap value becoz coe is 30k by then.
A car workshop told me his brother one VW recently and got some signal issue. Is it really so bad?
VW is infamous for its gearbox. There is a lawsuit in china.
VW is infamous for its gearbox. There is a lawsuit in china.
Their gearbox made in china?
Their gearbox made in china?
No the chinese sue VW for their lemons. I think VW extend the gearbox warranty.
A car workshop told me his brother one VW recently and got some signal issue. Is it really so bad?
the 7-sp DSG gearbox is a killer.
most european cars are design for european type of nice climate. they will suffer in SEA's hot humid weather. mercs have ironed these issues out long ago, perhaps bmw and volvos etc.
VW not exactly so. dun really know the reason, but better to avoid lah. anyway their low OMV not helping also.
if not a merc, i would prefer to get a solid asian car rather than a conti car. there are some good and safe asian cars around too. most of the new kias meet 5 star safety standards and come with full myriad of safety features. so do most high end subarus. the CRV too.
i'm quite hands on too, so i buy spare parts myself and go to my own workshop, and save 50% off dealer prices. anyway we are digressing. want to talk abt cars can star another thread. bro radha will be expert
My jap car has logged more than 100,000 km does not have major overhaul except for the usual wear and tear like tyres and brake pad. Only service my car once every 7 months by a local and reliable car mechanics at a fraction of the cost as compared to the dealer's workshop.
the 7-sp DSG gearbox is a killer.
most european cars are design for european type of nice climate. they will suffer in SEA's hot humid weather. mercs have ironed these issues out long ago, perhaps bmw and volvos etc.
VW not exactly so. dun really know the reason, but better to avoid lah. anyway their low OMV not helping also.
if not a merc, i would prefer to get a solid asian car rather than a conti car. there are some good and safe asian cars around too. most of the new kias meet 5 star safety standards and come with full myriad of safety features. so do most high end subarus. the CRV too.
i'm quite hands on too, so i buy spare parts myself and go to my own workshop, and save 50% off dealer prices. anyway we are digressing. want to talk abt cars can star another thread. bro radha will be expert
The 6 speed is fine. The 7 speed seems to be the one with the issue.
how about korean car? Kia or hyundai ?
In order for a good recession to hit Singapore property market, you need a series combination of hard attacks instead of 1 or 2.
First, I must really say it is unthinkable that ppl wants a recession so that property prices fall so that they can buy cheap. If there is a recession, do you think people got money to buy ? Got job to sustain themselves ?
Secondly, I think many totally missed the point when they say that prices are beyond reach. If we keep adding people in the top 20% bracket, you will realised that those who can afford PC, suddenly cannot afford because the intention is PC for top 20% bracket. These are the ppl who totally missed the boat, cannot even find the jetty.
Many older folks are aware of this already and hence are busy buying PCs for their children's sake, so that they get a chance to squeeze into the top bracket.
Hope I make sense on a Tues afternoon.
DKSG
recession whether we like it or not, is typically the reset time where the wealth gap narrows.
Secondly, I think many totally missed the point when they say that prices are beyond reach. If we keep adding people in the top 20% bracket, you will realised that those who can afford PC, suddenly cannot afford because the intention is PC for top 20% bracket. These are the ppl who totally missed the boat, cannot even find the jetty.
DKSG
in principle, this is the correct comment. but i read somewhere that garmen does intend to make it a 30/70 ratio instead of the current 18/82. so statistically, there are more singpaoreans who can afford PC despite the adding on at the top of the rich millionaires coming to sgp.
those who cry foul may not be the marginal ones, but the younger ones who grew up in condos and now realise they have to downgrade to HDB when thye marry. or those who have been conscientiously saving up but suddenly find themselves out of the game due to rising prices or CM.
how about korean car? Kia or hyundai ?
anecdotal evidence... hyundai cars got small issues like door lock or something.. but generally they can easily last 10 yrs becoz they are very mechanical.
Just build more EC for the next 12% after the 18%. Sell less land for PC and more for EC. That should make it more affordable for that 12%.
phantom_opera
06-03-13, 08:05
US Fed balance sheet not yet at acceptable level
Japan/US debt not yet at acceptable level
Dow hits ALL TIME HIGH lol :tongue3:
But Dow can only purchase 1/3 of oil & old compared to 10y ago :scared-3:
oh ... wait a minute Dow has 2/3% dividend yield :banghead:
and recently I received a few resumes from Beijing ... 8/9y so-so experience working with Amercian MNC same pay as Singapore :eek: UNACCEPTABLE LEVEL again
those who cry foul may not be the marginal ones, but the younger ones who grew up in condos and now realise they have to downgrade to HDB when thye marry. or those who have been conscientiously saving up but suddenly find themselves out of the game due to rising prices or CM.
Shanhz, have it not occured to you that the rich and the upper middle incomers are the one who are crying foul knowing that the upside is limited? They are the ones who understand what is buy low sell high. Their voices are always louder than the margainal ones. Reports confirmed that the majority of the people who are buying now have HDB addresses. The rich and upper incomers are not buying now.
At the end of the day, when come to investment, it is always the average guy that will be holding the baby.
Shanhz, have it not occured to you that the rich and the upper middle incomers are the one who are crying foul knowing that the upside is limited? They are the ones who understand what is buy low sell high. Their voices are always louder than the margainal ones. Reports confirmed that the majority of the people who are buying now have HDB addresses. The rich and upper incomers are not buying now.
At the end of the day, when come to investment, it is always the average guy that will be holding the baby.
good post ... so hold bb is dangerous izit :p
Shanhz, have it not occured to you that the rich and the upper middle incomers are the one who are crying foul knowing that the upside is limited? They are the ones who understand what is buy low sell high. Their voices are always louder than the margainal ones. Reports confirmed that the majority of the people who are buying now have HDB addresses. The rich and upper incomers are not buying now.
At the end of the day, when come to investment, it is always the average guy that will be holding the baby.
When government announced they are less foreigner buying, you should already see the first signal... When the government announced they are more HDB owners buying, you should see the second signal... Rich are not longer into property now..
When government announced they are less foreigner buying, you should already see the first signal... When the government announced they are more HDB owners buying, you should see the second signal... Rich are not longer into property now.. may i know why can't it be like the HDB owners' children buying? HDB address buying, means not necessary be the owner of the HDB flat right? some clarification please.
Shanhz, have it not occured to you that the rich and the upper middle incomers are the one who are crying foul knowing that the upside is limited? They are the ones who understand what is buy low sell high. Their voices are always louder than the margainal ones. Reports confirmed that the majority of the people who are buying now have HDB addresses. The rich and upper incomers are not buying now.
At the end of the day, when come to investment, it is always the average guy that will be holding the baby.
that could be true.
http://www.straitstimes.com/archive/saturday/premium/top-the-news/story/home-prices-not-acceptable-level-yet-20130302
Home prices 'not at acceptable level yet'
Tharman says some correction in prices will not be out of order
Published on Mar 02, 2013
By Fiona Chan Senior Economics Correspondent
PROPERTY prices in Singapore still have "some ways to go" before they reach an acceptable level relative to incomes, according to Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam.
"We're still in a wrong part of the cycle," he told Bloomberg TV in an interview on Thursday.
Mr Tharman, who is also Deputy Prime Minister, said the adjustment process would "happen through a combination of income improvement, as well as prices certainly not going up further".
"Some correction in prices will not be out of order," he added.
With seven rounds of property cooling measures implemented since 2009, as well as a significant increase in the supply of new homes, Mr Tharman is "pretty confident" that the Government will get a handle on the situation.
"We can prevent a real bubble from being formed which then eventually crashes, and that's our objective," he said.
Housing prices in Singapore have risen about 30 per cent since 2009, on the back of healthy economic growth, low interest rates and strong capital inflows.
The pace of price growth has slowed in recent years with the cooling measures, but home prices have yet to ease significantly.
In the hour-long interview, Mr Tharman also indicated that Singapore's economic growth this year "could come out at the lower end" of the Government's official forecast of 1 per cent to 3 per cent.
"The biggest issue is still what happens in the most developed economies," he said, referring to potential threats to Singapore's economic expansion. "As a highly open economy, as an economy that lives by being global and regional, that matters to us."
But he also indicated that there is no need for Singapore to relax monetary policy at this juncture, given the tight labour market.
"We don't have an output gap, and evidence of that is in an extremely tight labour market," he said. "In that context basically, you can't have an easy monetary policy, which in our case is an exchange-rate policy."
Economists expect the Monetary Authority of Singapore, of which Mr Tharman is chairman, to maintain its stance of an appreciating currency when it next reviews monetary policy next month.
Touching on foreign worker curbs, which he tightened in his annual Budget speech on Monday, Mr Tharman said the Government's key priority is to raise productivity "to a new level".
"If you don't raise productivity, it's hard to raise incomes," he said. "And if you can't raise incomes for the average person, for the median household and for those at the lower end of the wage ladder, your society frays."
[email protected]
http://www.straitstimes.com/archive/saturday/premium/top-the-news/story/home-prices-not-acceptable-level-yet-20130302
Home prices 'not at acceptable level yet'
Tharman says some correction in prices will not be out of order
Published on Mar 02, 2013
By Fiona Chan Senior Economics Correspondent
PROPERTY prices in Singapore still have "some ways to go" before they reach an acceptable level relative to incomes, according to Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam.
"We're still in a wrong part of the cycle," he told Bloomberg TV in an interview on Thursday.
Mr Tharman, who is also Deputy Prime Minister, said the adjustment process would "happen through a combination of income improvement, as well as prices certainly not going up further".
"Some correction in prices will not be out of order," he added.
With seven rounds of property cooling measures implemented since 2009, as well as a significant increase in the supply of new homes, Mr Tharman is "pretty confident" that the Government will get a handle on the situation.
"We can prevent a real bubble from being formed which then eventually crashes, and that's our objective," he said.
Housing prices in Singapore have risen about 30 per cent since 2009, on the back of healthy economic growth, low interest rates and strong capital inflows.
The pace of price growth has slowed in recent years with the cooling measures, but home prices have yet to ease significantly.
In the hour-long interview, Mr Tharman also indicated that Singapore's economic growth this year "could come out at the lower end" of the Government's official forecast of 1 per cent to 3 per cent.
"The biggest issue is still what happens in the most developed economies," he said, referring to potential threats to Singapore's economic expansion. "As a highly open economy, as an economy that lives by being global and regional, that matters to us."
But he also indicated that there is no need for Singapore to relax monetary policy at this juncture, given the tight labour market.
"We don't have an output gap, and evidence of that is in an extremely tight labour market," he said. "In that context basically, you can't have an easy monetary policy, which in our case is an exchange-rate policy."
Economists expect the Monetary Authority of Singapore, of which Mr Tharman is chairman, to maintain its stance of an appreciating currency when it next reviews monetary policy next month.
Touching on foreign worker curbs, which he tightened in his annual Budget speech on Monday, Mr Tharman said the Government's key priority is to raise productivity "to a new level".
"If you don't raise productivity, it's hard to raise incomes," he said. "And if you can't raise incomes for the average person, for the median household and for those at the lower end of the wage ladder, your society frays."
[email protected]
That'd old news. anything new?
Why those people didn't say their pay is at unacceptable level compared to their US counterpart (eg US President) and their Finnish counterpart especially if after deducting local tax rate and the local cost of living? :tongue3:
US Fed balance sheet not yet at acceptable level
Japan/US debt not yet at acceptable level
Dow hits ALL TIME HIGH lol :tongue3:
But Dow can only purchase 1/3 of oil & old compared to 10y ago :scared-3:
oh ... wait a minute Dow has 2/3% dividend yield :banghead:
and recently I received a few resumes from Beijing ... 8/9y so-so experience working with Amercian MNC same pay as Singapore :eek: UNACCEPTABLE LEVEL again
Regulators
08-03-13, 11:29
fully concur on that :cheers5:
Why those people didn't say their pay is at unacceptable level compared to their US counterpart (eg US President) and their Finnish counterpart especially if after deducting local tax rate and the local cost of living? :tongue3:
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