luxury market is in for a very hard time.

[Ringo33]

OCR will continue to chiong?




UOL Group, which yesterday posted a 19 per cent rise in full-year net profit to $807.7 million, said it expected demand and prices for residential property to fall in the aftermath of the latest cooling measures. Said Gwee Lian Kheng, UOL's group chief executive: "The recent cooling measures and the latest property tax changes by the government in Singapore will dampen overall demand and moderate prices.
"We remain cautious and selective in our land acquisitions and will continue to reinforce our recurrent income streams and focus on improving the performance of our property investments and hospitality."
The group will also stay away from the luxury market for now.
"I think the luxury market is in for a very hard time. . . If I were to go in now I would go for the mass, or possibly lower end, type of market. For high end, I think I would go into hibernation for a while," said Mr Gwee

[Allthepies]

OCR will continue to chiong?

time to look for high-end when everybody is not interested. of course you have to have the $$$$$

[leesg123]

How much more can ocr chiong?

Agree that now is a good time to consolidate on ccr properties, provided able to find seller willing to sell cheap.

[roly8]

time to look for high-end when everybody is not interested. of course you have to have the $$$$$
true.. got bullet, got winner..
:o

[sherlock]

time to look for high-end when everybody is not interested. of course you have to have the $$$$$

Agree. Buy when no one is buying.... and better still if can hold

[smellyfish]

what is considered high end?

i mean the ardmores etc are clear cases. is a 2 plus mil aspen heights or d leedon considered high end?

do we go by quantum or psf?

in any case, the 5-10m market has been dead for 2 years already.

[smellyfish]

what is considered high end?

i mean the ardmores etc are clear cases, but is a 2 plus mil aspen heights or d leedon considered high end?

do we go by quantum or psf?

in any case, the 5-10m market has been dead for years already.

[Lovelle]

maybe everybody will be in hard time

[Kelonguni]

With 6.9 Million cramming here, there will be no end to the high end suffering in the back end for many more weekends...

[Wild Falcon]

I think high-end luxury must refer to the $5 million and above market bah. How can those $2+ million be considered high end? Also cannot go by PSF. Or else all the MMs are high end liao. Haha.


what is considered high end?

i mean the ardmores etc are clear cases. is a 2 plus mil aspen heights or d leedon considered high end?

do we go by quantum or psf?

in any case, the 5-10m market has been dead for 2 years already.

[Wild Falcon]

There is a reason why it is not moving. Don't anyhow use warped logic like because nobody buy condos >$4kpsf means I need to buy now. At the end of the day, in mature market like Singapore, look at fundamentals and yields.


time to look for high-end when everybody is not interested. of course you have to have the $$$$$

[Wild Falcon]

Delete. Double post


time to look for high-end when everybody is not interested. of course you have to have the $$$$$

[Ringo33]

what is considered high end?

i mean the ardmores etc are clear cases, but is a 2 plus mil aspen heights or d leedon considered high end?

do we go by quantum or psf?

in any case, the 5-10m market has been dead for years already.
my definition will be >3000psf non MM

[smellyfish]

my definition will be >3000psf non MM


hmmm, to me those are the uber, and apart from Simon "anyhow" cheong's developments, not that many I would think. Leedon Residences for eg is at about $2000 psf, and i think very classy and high end. Rivergate, and the newer stuff at River Valley should also be high end?

to my low end eyes, high end probably means >3 million >2000 psf and in CCR :)

[DC33_2008]

Extracted from Squarefoot.com. Rental at D9 and 10 is quite poor.

Orchard / Tanglin (D9-D10)

Note: Monthly rents followed by number of contracts
Source: URA, squarefoot.com.sg



200 to 300
(sq ft)300 to 400
(sq ft)400 to 500
(sq ft)500 to 600
(sq ft)600 to 700
(sq ft)700 to 800
(sq ft)800 to 900
(sq ft)900 to 1000
(sq ft)1000 to 1100
(sq ft)1100 to 1200
(sq ft)1200 to 1300
(sq ft)1300 to 1400
(sq ft)1400 to 1500
(sq ft)1500 to 1600
(sq ft)1600 to 1700
(sq ft)1700 to 1800
(sq ft)1800 to 1900
(sq ft)1900 to 2000
(sq ft)2000 to 2100
(sq ft)2100 to 2200
(sq ft)2200 to 2300
(sq ft)2300 to 2400
(sq ft)2400 to 2500
(sq ft)2500 to 2600
(sq ft)2600 to 2700
(sq ft)2700 to 2800
(sq ft)2800 to 2900
(sq ft)2900 to 3000
(sq ft)>3000
(sq ft)District
9 - $3,200
# 21 $3,300
# 53 $3,700
# 80 $4,050
# 50 $4,200
# 53 $4,550
# 71 $4,300
# 87 $5,250
# 111 $5,300
# 104 $5,500
# 87 $6,000
# 85 $6,100
# 50 $6,250
# 75 $6,000
# 51 $7,000
# 44 $8,100
# 22 $8,400
# 14 $7,300
# 29 $9,300
# 17 $9,900
# 18 $8,500
# 19 $17,000
# 9 $12,000
# 7 $12,000
# 11 $10,340
# 7 $13,750
# 12 - $14,000
# 25 District
10 - - $3,400
# 12 $3,400
# 41 $3,400
# 17 $3,500
# 40 $3,800
# 49 $4,100
# 100 $4,400
# 85 $4,200
# 81 $4,600
# 93 $5,500
# 91 $5,400
# 80 $5,650
# 76 $6,050
# 68 $6,650
# 72 $6,750
# 47 $8,000
# 47 $9,700
# 35 $10,000
# 21 $9,200
# 29 $8,600
# 21 $9,200
# 11 $12,800
# 17 $11,500
# 12 $14,850
# 24 $10,000
# 19 $11,625
# 6 $13,500
# 75

[charle]

May i know what does MM refers to?

[thomaspaine]

time to look for high-end when everybody is not interested. of course you have to have the $$$$$


I CONCUR ....
I think Old CCR properties $1400-$1800 psf (if you can get) are real GEMs.

[smellyfish]

I CONCUR ....
I think Old CCR properties $1400-$1800 psf (if you can get) are real GEMs.

quite a lot in that range what if you are looking at 3 room or bigger apts.

[Wild Falcon]

How can that price range be considered "high end"? Then you mean mid range? Anyway, that price range is everywhere. When something is so common, not considered high end liao.


I CONCUR ....
I think Old CCR properties $1400-$1800 psf (if you can get) are real GEMs.

[thomastansb]

Nothing except MM will chiong. If prices don't drop, already bonus.

Investors confirm won't buy. 18% tax is nuts.
Upgraders won't buy.
Those with 1 house won't buy.
Those who haven't buy, most bought BTO HDB.

The left over are those who don't want to buy HDB, income above 12k and if they haven't been buying over the past few years, they probably won't need to buy. So left really a tiny portion who will buy. As to how tiny, I won't know.




OCR will continue to chiong?

[evolutionx]

May i know what does MM refers to?

MM = mass market (homes)


How can that price range be considered "high end"? Then you mean mid range? Anyway, that price range is everywhere. When something is so common, not considered high end liao.

gotta agree with you on this one. then projects like ardmore would have to be reclassified as "ultra high end".

i would say a property is high based based on a couple of factors, price psf primarily, followed by developer's name and fittings/facilities etc. it's really hard for everyone to be on the same page as to the exact definition, but i would have to say that going by quantum is difficult (you can get a big landed property in sembawang for saying 4-5mil ... but that is not considered high end at all). quantum only tells one part of the story ... :)

[phantom_opera]

Tharman said in Bloomberg, income must go up, property price must stay flat

He also said a little correction is ok
================

Mr Tharman said the process of property prices becoming appropriate would "happen through a combination of income improvement, as well as prices certainly not going up further".
"Some correction in prices will not be out of order," he added.

[Jonathan0503]

To me

High-end would be psf>$2k and quantum >$2m

Luxury would be psf>$3k and floor area >2k sqft

[thomaspaine]

quite a lot in that range what if you are looking at 3 room or bigger apts.

FH unless otherwise stated :
1300-1800psf (estimates) :
1. Tulip garden
2. Sommerville park
3. Spanish village
4. Aspen Heights
5. Cairnhill Plaza
6. Cairnhill Mansions
7. Grange Heights
8. Elizabeth Tower
9. Orchard Bel Air (99Y)


1700-2100psf (estimates) :
1. Yong An Park
2. The Balmoral
3. Regency Park
4. Tanglin Park
5. Avalon
6. Elizabeth Heights

[roly8]

MM = mass market (homes)



MM can be also coin as mickey mouse condo unit .. aka 1 bed unit..:D

[evolutionx]

MM can be also coin as mickey mouse condo unit .. aka 1 bed unit..:D

good catch. have completed forgotten about mickey mouse apts ... lol.

[puffer_fish]

been viewing a number of units within orchard area. it still a tough neg with owners, either they stood firm on their asking, if not the units that are willing to neg has bad facing etc...

it's a number game, need to see lots more units to find out the best deal.

[smellyfish]

been viewing a number of units within orchard area. it still a tough neg with owners, either they stood firm on their asking, if not the units that are willing to neg has bad facing etc...

it's a number game, need to see lots more units to find out the best deal.

i think the middle of the year is when you see the greatest effect of CM7. now is still early days.

I would think that Feb transaction volume has completely crashed.

[Allthepies]

There is a reason why it is not moving. Don't anyhow use warped logic like because nobody buy condos >$4kpsf means I need to buy now. At the end of the day, in mature market like Singapore, look at fundamentals and yields.
I use stock market as an analogy, when market crash big time and nobody buying, is it not a good time to buy????

[newbie11]

If 30% MSR is applied to private, it will die. Dead.

[sh]

It quantum... Nothing else, many many mil means high end, wherever it is. Who cares about per sq ft.

And it's the yield that's killing the high end, whether it's landed or Ardmore, just can't justify the investment.

MM rules!:D

[Ringo33]

It quantum... Nothing else, many many mil means high end, wherever it is. Who cares about per sq ft.

And it's the yield that's killing the high end, whether it's landed or Ardmore, just can't justify the investment.

MM rules!:D

its quantum and rental play. but then again, if prices continue to rise, MM will also be out of reach for the batch of property buyer.

[Cupcakes]

When is MM = mass Mkt or MM = mickey mouse :confused:

[teddybear]

High end probably no fixed definition and many variables? High end probably also include the following in the estate:
1) Concierge service
2) Air-con lift lobby on every floor
3) <200 units in the estate
4) >$2000 psf & >$3m total quantum?
5) Miele or equivalent appliances
6) Marble flooring
7) ???

Sorry, D'Leedon cannot even pass any 2 of the above criteria, let alone 6! How to be highend? :banghead:


hmmm, to me those are the uber, and apart from Simon "anyhow" cheong's developments, not that many I would think. Leedon Residences for eg is at about $2000 psf, and i think very classy and high end. Rivergate, and the newer stuff at River Valley should also be high end?

to my low end eyes, high end probably means >3 million >2000 psf and in CCR :)

[VS]

its quantum and rental play. but then again, if prices continue to rise, MM will also be out of reach for the batch of property buyer.

If Mass Market or Mickey Mouse also out of reach, then developers will come out with MMMM, ie Mass Market Mickey Mouse, eg Mickey Mouse in Pasir Ris or Pungol or Woodlands

[thomastansb]

Still got location. You have all the below but in Punggol also pointless.

Only D1, D4, D9, D10 IMO.




High end probably no fixed definition and many variables? High end probably also include the following in the estate:
1) Concierge service
2) Air-con lift lobby on every floor
3) <200 units in the estate
4) >$2000 psf & >$3m total quantum?
5) Miele or equivalent appliances
6) Marble flooring
7) ???

Sorry, D'Leedon cannot even pass any 2 of the above criteria, let alone 6! How to be highend? :banghead:

[Lovelle]

aim for rivergate la.

can buy at 1400 boh ?

[bargain hunter]

1400 can buy but need to wait long long before it gets there. so far, only the 3000psf+ chop price to 2500psf. haven't seen 2000psf chop to 1400psf.


aim for rivergate la.

can buy at 1400 boh ?

[kane]

1400 can buy but need to wait long long before it gets there. so far, only the 3000psf+ chop price to 2500psf. haven't seen 2000psf chop to 1400psf.


have, the sail from 2200-2300 chop to 1300-1400psf during Lehman crisis. woe to the seller, happy the buyer. chio mi mi now.

[proud owner]

have, the sail from 2200-2300 chop to 1300-1400psf during Lehman crisis. woe to the seller, happy the buyer. chio mi mi now.


same period Ardmore II fell from 2500 psf to 1500 psf not sure if it was traded but my agent offered me i didnt take it
cos i didnt like it

[kane]

same period Ardmore II fell from 2500 psf to 1500 psf not sure if it was traded but my agent offered me i didnt take it
cos i didnt like it


I heard the original Ardmore one unit done at just over $6mio. woe to the seller, happy the buyer.

I heard the new ardmore just isn't like the original.

[bargain hunter]

crisis of course have, but not now mah. if there's a decline in CCR prices, i think it will be at a slower pace and more long drawn. :scared-1:


have, the sail from 2200-2300 chop to 1300-1400psf during Lehman crisis. woe to the seller, happy the buyer. chio mi mi now.

[kane]

crisis of course have, but not now mah. if there's a decline in CCR prices, i think it will be at a slower pace and more long drawn. :scared-1:

without crisis, almost impossible to get a drop from 2000psf to 1400psf. that's a 30% haircut.

[CCR]

Don't expect high end prices to drop till 2016 coz big Ben say interest rates will remain low till then....

Where is the motivation to sell when holding costs is practically and the economy is doing ok?

So what if the nett rental yield is 1.5%? Take 3m condo value x 1.5% and you get 45000 nett gain per year..... No good meh?

[bargain hunter]

The Edge's City & Country section has a full report on Luxe market feeling the heat.

Residences at Emerald Hill TOP in Jun 11. If they don't sell by Jun 13, the penalties will kick in. They launched it last weekend, not sure how's the response.

Prices were indeed cut from 2800 to 3200psf range to 2500 to 2600psf range.

[CCR]

The Edge's City & Country section has a full report on Luxe market feeling the heat.

Residences at Emerald Hill TOP in Jun 11. If they don't sell by Jun 13, the penalties will kick in. They launched it last weekend, not sure how's the response.

Prices were indeed cut from 2800 to 3200psf range to 2500 to 2600psf range.

So can buy?

[bargain hunter]

in the report, it also said OUE has applied for 1 block at Twin Peaks to be converted to serviced residences. can like that one meh?

market sources also said OUE is exploring the possibility of offering discounts from the median price of 2944psf achieved so far for the 62 out of 462 units.

[hopeful]

Don't expect high end prices to drop till 2016 coz big Ben say interest rates will remain low till then....

Where is the motivation to sell when holding costs is practically and the economy is doing ok?

So what if the nett rental yield is 1.5%? Take 3m condo value x 1.5% and you get 45000 nett gain per year..... No good meh?

errr... follow your example, nett rental yield 1.5% x 3 year = 4.5%.
drop 10% in 2016 how?

[bargain hunter]

personally, i don't like such a boutique project. limited land size and high maintenence.

they bought the land at 803psf ppr in 2006. if u r keen, ask them to cut some more? :D

the marketing agents said good turnout last weekend but didn't boast of any units sold leh so................

anyway, the report said the initial launch is for 12 units only at 2500 to 2600psf. 3 bedder of 15xx sq ft is the smallest unit. 4 bedders up to 22xx sq ft.


So can buy?

[kane]

for service residences, is URA zoning required?

[bargain hunter]

the report also says yet to be launched, 156 unit CDL-Wing Tai JV joint venture Nouvel 18 will TOP end 2013. 58 unit Ardmore Residence by Pontiac land will be completed middle of this year and all units will be for lease only.

[kane]

pontiac has a habit of doing lease only units.