View Full Version : The 900,000 Singapore child
phantom_opera
26-02-13, 13:09
Very well written article ...
====================
RECENT economic research on happiness has established a good correlation between a person's sense of well-being and his propensity to procreate. As in nature, animals need to feel well before procreation can happen.
One fundamental factor for well-being is financial sufficiency. One must earn enough to make ends meet, plus save enough for retirement and the proverbial rainy day.
Without financial sufficiency, successful procreation is unlikely because it will make you go broke. Again, nature sets the example. Animals will not procreate or will abort their offspring when resources are inadequate.
It thus makes sense, as a very basic starting point, to look at procreation as a hard-nosed business investment decision.
How financially viable is it to have children, given Singapore's cost structure and available resources? Does it cost too much for us to have our own children as a nation?
The current discussion about procreation financing has largely revolved around who pays - the state, businesses or parents - and for what. But can we, as a nation, even afford to have children? What is the total cost of raising a child?
Unlike in the United States, there is little published official data on what it costs to bring up a child here. Combining my own private data with whatever published data I could find, I worked out a ballpark estimate.
As a former chief executive officer of a financial advisory firm, I have worked on and reviewed many client financial plans. From the cash-flow analysis of these financial plans, we worked out the expected costs of bringing up a child in Singapore for a mid- to upper-income family.
My estimate is about $600,000 in real dollars per child for a one-child family, and about $500,000 per child for a two-child family to raise a child. The lower figure is due to some economies of scale.
This covers the costs of raising a child, including childcare, clothing, food, schooling, imputed rental of a room to house the child. I assume tuition of $1,000 a month for 11 years, amounting to $132,000. Tuition is seen as a necessity in many families, although the amount spent varies. Household expenditure surveys suggest families spend more on private tuition than on university fees, so $1,000 a month is not unduly high. My estimate also includes the approximate costs for a four-year stint at a local university. If the child does not go to university, deduct about $100,000 from the total cost.
For this article, let's take a non-university-going, one-child family's cost of $500,000.
The implications of the $500,000 cost to bring up a child are not trivial. It means that there will be a shortfall of $500,000 in the couple's retirement fund.
Retirement has to be a top priority because it is non-negotiable - it is rarely possible to work until one passes on. An individual has a duty to himself to avoid the fate of being old and infirm but destitute.
Seen in this context, children are an option - to be exercised only if one can afford it. A retirement fund of $500,000 translates into a retirement income stream of $20,000 - using a 4 per cent draw-down rate - each year. The hard-nosed question that needs to be asked is: "Is your child worth an annual retirement income stream of $20,000?"
The above cost-estimates to raise a child do not include the estimated subsidies paid by the state. This amounts to about another $400,000, with about $300,000 going to education - assuming 13 years of subsidised education. My $300,000 estimate is higher than the government's own internal estimates because I have imputed rental. Singapore's public-funded schools do not pay rental for their premises, unlike private ones. Imputed rental cannot be ignored, as it is a substantial real economic cost.
Hence, each child is expected to cost the nation about $900,000 - $500,000 in family funds and $400,000 in state funds.
Based on about 40,000 live births each year currently, every new cohort that is born is expected to cost about $36 billion or about 11 per cent of gross domestic product or about $11,000 per Singaporean every year.
This is far more than the GDP per capita of Laos and about the same as Thailand. If the Laotians and Thais had our cost structure, they would not be able to afford any children.
The trouble with tuition
WHY is it so costly to raise a child in Singapore?
In the US, it costs about $360,000 to raise a child in a one-child US family, excluding university costs. This is about $140,000 less than the equivalent Singaporean situation.
One reason for the difference appears to be the costs of Singapore's parallel education system, which is not prevalent in the US - the expected costs of private tuition, which represents the single largest expenditure for many parents.
Based on the Household Expenditure Survey 2007/08 (HES2007) published by the Department of Statistics, Singapore resident households already spend more on private tuition for their children annually than on university fees, local and overseas combined as of 2007. Based on HES2007 and GDP breakdown data, the private tuition industry was already a $1.2 billion industry or about 17 per cent of the Ministry of Education's budget in 2007. Extrapolating to today, the private tuition industry is probably worth more than $1.6 billion annually.
The education budget increased by 78 per cent between 2005 and 2011, but parents appear to be paying increasing amounts for private tuition, which many complain is necessary because of the way their children are (not) being educated. This is akin to a company whose revenue is surging but shareholders' losses keep widening. As a professional investor, I would say that something has gone awry.
HES2007 showed that the main bulk of spending on tuition is by residents living in private properties and the largest Housing Board flats.
As a society, we need to reverse the growth of private tuition quickly. The MOE and every school should be measured on how many hours of private tuition students consume and given incentives to reduce consumption at least 10 per cent a year every year for the next 10 years. This will focus the ministry and schools to manage curriculum and teaching techniques creatively so that private tuition becomes unnecessary. Schools should also be forbidden to recommend tuition of any sort to parents. Reducing reliance on tuition will remove one great cost-barrier to fertility.
Will immigrants dilute our resources?
HOWEVER, if we decline to reduce our overall child-rearing cost structure but rely on immigration to meet the shortfall, we won't be better off because the costs are far higher than we think. Every new immigrant who is sworn in may be a tangible dilution of the wealth of all Singaporeans.
The reason rests with the balance sheet of the state, that is our reserves. Every new immigrant has a claim to benefits from the reserves. This is unlike in the US where new citizens have to shoulder the burden of federal and state debt. Part of the taxes paid by every US citizen goes into paying interest on the national debt.
The official book value of our reserves is about $308 billion. The current market value is probably about $800 billion or about $245,000 per citizen. The exact value may be moot but the benefit from the reserves is already tangible. In the 2012 budget, $7.33 billion was taken from returns on reserves - about $2,230 per citizen. If goods and services tax had been used to raise $7.33 billion, GST would have had to increase to 13 per cent - a hardship for the average citizen. Unless each new immigrant has an economic value of at least $245,000, Singapore would be diluting citizens' wealth.
When we understand the true cost of raising children in Singapore, we can see that the solution does not lie in importing immigrants. Rather, a more concerted effort needs to be made to reduce the costs of having a baby. A good start can be made from reducing the reliance on tuition.
Unfortunately, the procreation package announced by the Government on Jan 21 does not adequately address the issue of total costs of rearing a child. Instead, it shifts the cost burden from the family to the state, or other taxpayers. At $2 billion a year, it is a non-trivial recurring cost and represents about 4.3 per cent of the state budget. Although I hope it is effective, it is not possible to reasonably forecast its impact until we get a firm grip on the total cost perspective. If the total cost continues to rise aggressively, it would negate any well-intended subsidies from the state.
Until we satisfactorily address the issue of total cost, it would be imprudent to throw any more taxpayer dollars at the problem.
The writer was previously the chief executive officer of a wealth management firm.
Wild Falcon
26-02-13, 14:45
I dun think the kiasu mentality will ever change. And too much tax dollars channeled to children and their education.
That is why we need to parallel import humans at 20,000 a year.
20,000 x SGD 900,000 = 18 Billion a year.
I disagree the cost of raising up a child is so frightening. And $1K for tuition is probably for high-end tuition centers or doing classes 5 days a week.
The cost can varies greatly with adult's expectations. If people providing their children with things within their financial means, raising children isn't that difficult.
I find those figures meaningless and they do not help in improving birth rates.
the rising cost really turn people off..
:o
phantom_opera
26-02-13, 15:38
So assume a young couple starting a family
1. HDB (include loan interest) down 500k
2. First child down 600k
3. Insurance for 30y at 3k per year = 100k
4. 4 cars in whole life + car related expenses 500k
5. Maid at 12k per year for 30y = 360k
Wah piang eh ... already down almost 2 million :scared-4: :doh: :banghead:
phantom_opera
26-02-13, 15:43
I disagree the cost of raising up a child is so frightening. And $1K for tuition is probably for high-end tuition centers or doing classes 5 days a week.
The cost can varies greatly with adult's expectations. If people providing their children with things within their financial means, raising children isn't that difficult.
I find those figures meaningless and they do not help in improving birth rates.
i think you are out of touch of reality, let me quote some of the "common" stuff:
-1. Delivery - normally 3k but can go up to 10k if got problem
0. Baby care - 1kpm
0.5. Confinement lady - 3k
1. Fully day childcare or half day playgroup - 1kpm
2. Preschool Montessori - 1.7 to 2kpm
3. British Council - 2.4k per year
4. Tuition with group size of 15 (e.g. Mind Stretcher) per subject - $120 per month for lower primary
5. Adam Khoo motivational camp - 2.5k in one week
6. Personal tuition (language) - 300 per month (4 times a month only)
7. Tuition with group size of 5-8 - 200 per month
8. Personal swimming lesson - 250 per month
9. Personal Piano lesson - 120 per month
10. Mindchamp guarantee improve one grade tuition - 10k per year
wah biang, the brown skins are the richest in Singapore - if only they dont give birth to so many children. 4 kids will cost them $2milion:scared-5:.
i think you are out of touch of reality, let me quote some of the "common" stuff:
-1. Delivery - normally 3k but can go up to 10k if got problem
0. Baby care - 1kpm
0.5. Confinement lady - 3k
1. Fully day childcare or half day playgroup - 1kpm
2. Preschool Montessori - 1.7 to 2kpm
3. British Council - 2.4k per year
4. Tuition with group size of 15 (e.g. Mind Stretcher) per subject - $120 per month for lower primary
5. Adam Khoo motivational camp - 2.5k in one week
6. Personal tuition (language) - 300 per month (4 times a month only)
7. Tuition with group size of 5-8 - 200 per month
8. Personal swimming lesson - 250 per month
9. Personal Piano lesson - 120 per month
10. Mindchamp guarantee improve one grade tuition - 10k per year
That is why I say cost can varies greatly accordingly to expectations. Here are my expectations:
-1. Delivery - normally 3k but can go up to 10k if got problem
[Cash probably 1K will do for normal delivery]
0. Baby care - 1kpm
[Ok, possible]
0.5. Confinement lady - 3k
[2.2K is a recent rate that I know]
1. Fully day childcare or half day playgroup - 1kpm
[I am paying $200/month for a half day playgroup]
2. Preschool Montessori - 1.7 to 2kpm
[Got playgroup or childcare already, isn't it?]
3. British Council - 2.4k per year
[No need. PA courses as good.]
4. Tuition with group size of 15 (e.g. Mind Stretcher) per subject - $120 per month for lower primary
[PA got $140 for 10 lessons]
5. Adam Khoo motivational camp - 2.5k in one week
[Unless your kids not motivated]
6. Personal tuition (language) - 300 per month (4 times a month only)
[Do not need get China one. My wife is a Chinese teacher will charge much lesser]
7. Tuition with group size of 5-8 - 200 per month
[$140 for 10 lessons, once a week]
8. Personal swimming lesson - 250 per month
[$150 per 4 lessons, some more comes to condo to teach]
9. Personal Piano lesson - 120 per month
[Ok reasonable]
10. Mindchamp guarantee improve one grade tuition - 10k per year[/QUOTE]
[Leave your child at current grade and spend more time to try improve it will save that $]
The person who wrote the article is a very stupid and shallow person. :doh:
Very well written article ...
====================
RECENT economic research on happiness has established a good correlation between a person's sense of well-being and his propensity to procreate. As in nature, animals need to feel well before procreation can happen.
One fundamental factor for well-being is financial sufficiency. One must earn enough to make ends meet, plus save enough for retirement and the proverbial rainy day.
The writer was previously the chief executive officer of a wealth management firm.
-1. Delivery - normally 3k but can go up to 10k if got problem
0. Baby care - 1kpm (needed meh? Drink gold milk, gold plated diaper?)
0.5. Confinement lady - 3k(needed meh? cannot ownself take care? parent? inlaws?)
1. Fully day childcare or half day playgroup - 1kpm (no money still want to spend on so exp childcare?)
2. Preschool Montessori - 1.7 to 2kpm (no money still want to spend on so exp childcare?)
3. British Council - 2.4k per year (needed meh? )
4. Tuition with group size of 15 (e.g. Mind Stretcher) per subject - $120 per month for lower primary (needed meh? )
5. Adam Khoo motivational camp - 2.5k in one week (needed meh? )
6. Personal tuition (language) - 300 per month (4 times a month only) (needed meh? )
7. Tuition with group size of 5-8 - 200 per month (needed meh? )
8. Personal swimming lesson - 250 per month(needed meh? )
9. Personal Piano lesson - 120 per month(needed meh? )
10. Mindchamp guarantee improve one grade tuition - 10k per year(needed meh? )
i think you are out of touch of reality, let me quote some of the "common" stuff:
-1. Delivery - normally 3k but can go up to 10k if got problem
0. Baby care - 1kpm
0.5. Confinement lady - 3k
1. Fully day childcare or half day playgroup - 1kpm
2. Preschool Montessori - 1.7 to 2kpm
3. British Council - 2.4k per year
4. Tuition with group size of 15 (e.g. Mind Stretcher) per subject - $120 per month for lower primary
5. Adam Khoo motivational camp - 2.5k in one week
6. Personal tuition (language) - 300 per month (4 times a month only)
7. Tuition with group size of 5-8 - 200 per month
8. Personal swimming lesson - 250 per month
9. Personal Piano lesson - 120 per month
10. Mindchamp guarantee improve one grade tuition - 10k per year
-1. Delivery - normally 3k but can go up to 10k if got problem
0. Baby care - 1kpm (needed meh? Drink gold milk, gold plated diaper?)
0.5. Confinement lady - 3k(needed meh? cannot ownself take care? parent? inlaws?)
1. Fully day childcare or half day playgroup - 1kpm (no money still want to spend on so exp childcare?)
2. Preschool Montessori - 1.7 to 2kpm (no money still want to spend on so exp childcare?)
3. British Council - 2.4k per year (needed meh? )
4. Tuition with group size of 15 (e.g. Mind Stretcher) per subject - $120 per month for lower primary (needed meh? )
5. Adam Khoo motivational camp - 2.5k in one week (needed meh? )
6. Personal tuition (language) - 300 per month (4 times a month only) (needed meh? )
7. Tuition with group size of 5-8 - 200 per month (needed meh? )
8. Personal swimming lesson - 250 per month(needed meh? )
9. Personal Piano lesson - 120 per month(needed meh? )
10. Mindchamp guarantee improve one grade tuition - 10k per year(needed meh? )
lol. !! it is either a need or want.. :D:D:D
for me, i don't think i need any of the above.. :p
Most don't need, but we will have people want to spent all that amount, no wonder how much $$$ also not enough.
Who made the child don't have a happy life? - Dad, Mum ....
Maybe a course " Property Investment Sure Win Strategy 101" that target 12-15yrs old will be popular too, even charge at $10,000 for 2days course :rolleyes:
lol. !! it is either a need or want.. :D:D:D
for me, i don't think i need any of the above.. :p
i think you are out of touch of reality, let me quote some of the "common" stuff:
-1. Delivery - normally 3k but can go up to 10k if got problem
0. Baby care - 1kpm
0.5. Confinement lady - 3k
1. Fully day childcare or half day playgroup - 1kpm
2. Preschool Montessori - 1.7 to 2kpm
3. British Council - 2.4k per year
4. Tuition with group size of 15 (e.g. Mind Stretcher) per subject - $120 per month for lower primary
5. Adam Khoo motivational camp - 2.5k in one week
6. Personal tuition (language) - 300 per month (4 times a month only)
7. Tuition with group size of 5-8 - 200 per month
8. Personal swimming lesson - 250 per month
9. Personal Piano lesson - 120 per month
10. Mindchamp guarantee improve one grade tuition - 10k per year
Why your tuition so cheap one? TLL is about $13K per year for 3 subjects. only 1 lesson per week & 1 sport only! Where got enough? How come your piano lesson so cheap one? You sure you got good one? I think all your tuition centres, coach, tutors etc must the lousy one. If not, why so cheap? :D
Nowadays, a kid needs to attend 2 preschools within a day. One in the morning (easily $1.5-2k per month) and another in the afternoon (another $1.5-2k per month). In between and during weekends, kid will go to enrichment/tuition classes/spots. Swimming need to join club one with 3-4 lessons per week including Gym. Personal swimming coach will charge you $100 per hour, Personal tuition per language is about $75-100 per hour, (typically, 2-3 lessons per week per subject). Piano lesson is about $75-100 per hour (1 lesson is not good enough, must have 2-3 lessons per week, else how to make it G8 distinction at primary 5 or diploma in early P6 before can use the certificates for DSA) Only one piano is also not good enough, must have Violin too (another 2-3 lessons per week). One swimming is also not good enough, must have Tennis too (another 2-3 lessons per week). Also, must have maths Olympiads personal coaching, and GEP preparation classes, else, how to make it for GEP program!:tsk-tsk:
-1. Delivery - normally 3k but can go up to 10k if got problem
0. Baby care - 1kpm (needed meh? Drink gold milk, gold plated diaper?)
0.5. Confinement lady - 3k(needed meh? cannot ownself take care? parent? inlaws?)
1. Fully day childcare or half day playgroup - 1kpm (no money still want to spend on so exp childcare?)
2. Preschool Montessori - 1.7 to 2kpm (no money still want to spend on so exp childcare?)
3. British Council - 2.4k per year (needed meh? )
4. Tuition with group size of 15 (e.g. Mind Stretcher) per subject - $120 per month for lower primary (needed meh? )
5. Adam Khoo motivational camp - 2.5k in one week (needed meh? )
6. Personal tuition (language) - 300 per month (4 times a month only) (needed meh? )
7. Tuition with group size of 5-8 - 200 per month (needed meh? )
8. Personal swimming lesson - 250 per month(needed meh? )
9. Personal Piano lesson - 120 per month(needed meh? )
10. Mindchamp guarantee improve one grade tuition - 10k per year(needed meh? )
What era do you live in now? Mata wearing short era?:D
You don't want to do , Can! then don't blame your kids are being deprived or say other people Kelong one and take short circuit processes to top schools. :tsk-tsk:
phantom_opera
27-02-13, 08:07
teddybear, I am "less than middle class" (according to some forumers 300-400k pa is middle class, 500kpa is upper middle class)... so my quotes are way below the norm loh
bro leesg really out of touch ......
http://www.mindstretcher.net/Latest/congrats-to-moses-mind-stretcher-student-1-a-son-of-mind-stretcher-principal-for-being-awarded-the-2012-presidents-scholarship.html
Invest so much on the kid for what? then kid turn out to be normal engineer, banker etc.,. Afterall not everybody can be the top 20%.
Invest the 900k in property or business.
If business, then the 900k kid will work for your kid.
I disagree the cost of raising up a child is so frightening. And $1K for tuition is probably for high-end tuition centers or doing classes 5 days a week.
The cost can varies greatly with adult's expectations. If people providing their children with things within their financial means, raising children isn't that difficult.
I find those figures meaningless and they do not help in improving birth rates.
Agree. Tuition costs are luxury and not mandatory. Children should be taught to do self-learning, to explore and not to be over reliant on tuition centres. I'm sure many of us here have learnt to learn by ourselves. Afterall, what are teachers in school for, if tuition teachers are deemed more effective?
I think it all boils down to parents' expectations and perceptions.
phantom_opera
27-02-13, 08:56
Agree. Tuition costs are luxury and not mandatory. Children should be taught to do self-learning, to explore and not to be over reliant on tuition centres. I'm sure many of us here have learnt to learn by ourselves. Afterall, what are teachers in school for, if tuition teachers are deemed more effective?
I think it all boils down to parents' expectations and perceptions.
do u have a kid in primary school? otherwise u won't understand one lah ... your thinking is out of touch
tuition today is not luxury, it is only for survival :tsk-tsk: next time you pass your market, look for the stall that sells exam paper for top primary schools, get some and try yourself :scared-3:
do u have a kid in primary school? otherwise u won't understand one lah ... your thinking is out of touch
tuition today is not luxury, it is only for survival :tsk-tsk: next time you pass your market, look for the stall that sells exam paper for top primary schools, get some and try yourself :scared-3:
i can't reconcile with this mentality. was at katong 112 and saw the Learning Lab's poster boasting top students (some were in GEP) as part of their learning cohort.
why would GEP students even need tuition?!?!??!??!?!?!?!?!?!?
do u have a kid in primary school? otherwise u won't understand one lah ... your thinking is out of touch
tuition today is not luxury, it is only for survival :tsk-tsk: next time you pass your market, look for the stall that sells exam paper for top primary schools, get some and try yourself :scared-3:
Yes, very difficult for us now. Mine past primary school already. They tackled those top sch papers with help from their school teachers and sheer determination from themselves. Very reassuring in that sense.
do u have a kid in primary school? otherwise u won't understand one lah ... your thinking is out of touch
tuition today is not luxury, it is only for survival :tsk-tsk: next time you pass your market, look for the stall that sells exam paper for top primary schools, get some and try yourself :scared-3:
I have 2 kids in primary school. It isn't that difficult as you may think. Some schools does give higher difficulty questions to the kids, probably to differentiate the high IQ ones. It is parents being too anxious when their kids are unable to do those questions. It is a matter of time their kids are mature enough to tackle those questions with proper guidance.
And like most parents, you think it is difficult because you do not understand the new methology that the topics they are taught now. It is your knowledge that is out of touch.
phantom_opera
27-02-13, 11:13
I have 2 kids in primary school. It isn't that difficult as you may think. Some schools does give higher difficulty questions to the kids, probably to differentiate the high IQ ones. It is parents being too anxious when their kids are unable to do those questions. It is a matter of time their kids are mature enough to tackle those questions with proper guidance.
And like most parents, you think it is difficult because you do not understand the new methology that the topics they are taught now. It is your knowledge that is out of touch.
care to share how much have u spent on tuition for your 2 primary school kids?? it must be zero right?
care to share how much have u spent on tuition for your 2 primary school kids?? it must be zero right?
I have two children in primary school. Only one need more help on a language subject and therefore we spend $140 for 10 1.5hour tuition in a community center on her. That is about it.
I do not disapprove adult from letting children going for tuition or giving them the best of all things. It is their choice but making an assumption that raising a kid needs $1K tuition and > $500K for raising them is over-exaggerating.
i can't reconcile with this mentality. was at katong 112 and saw the Learning Lab's poster boasting top students (some were in GEP) as part of their learning cohort.
why would GEP students even need tuition?!?!??!??!?!?!?!?!?!?
If no tuition, you thought they can be GET student! I've never seen any GEP student who does not go for tuition/ enrichment class. Some of them said never go tuition but mother stayed at home to coach/teach/ enrich their kids la. :tongue3:
Our GEP students are normal kid la cant beat the China's 神童! Theirs is 1 in a million but ours is 560 in 36, 000:D
Yes, very difficult for us now. Mine past primary school already. They tackled those top sch papers with help from their school teachers and sheer determination from themselves. Very reassuring in that sense.
The standard of psle now is very much higher than the standard in 5 or 10 years old ago
They have more higher order thinking questions. :D With this type rate, our poor kids/grandchildren may be doing master degree standard in JC:scared-5:
and might end up earning substandard paying job? :D:D
study so smart also cannot find a job nowadays.. especially in south korea..
singapore can't be better off than time.. lol :o
If no tuition, you thought they can be GET student! I've never seen any GEP student who does not go for tuition/ enrichment class. Some of them said never go tuition but mother stayed at home to coach/teach/ enrich their kids la. :tongue3:
Our GEP students are normal kid la cant beat the China's 神童! Theirs is 1 in a million but ours is 560 in 36, 000:D
these are GEP students who went for tuition, not those who made it into GEP because of tuition.
WHY DO THEY EVEN NEED TUITION??!!! to make sure they get 290, instead of 275 in PSLE??!!!
sorry, but i can't reconcile with such kiasu mentality. to me, tuition is for those who need an extra help in their studies.
-1. Delivery - normally 3k but can go up to 10k if got problem
Agreed, cannot control. BB needs special care also cannot help what
0. Baby care - 1kpm
Agreed. See if u want 1 to 1, 1 to 2 or 1 to 4.
0.5. Confinement lady - 3k
Agreed. Parents or PIL too old to help. Nowadays, people settle down too late. Sometime is no choice and confinement lady are very hard to book now.
The rest are needs and wants.
1. Fully day childcare or half day playgroup - 1kpm
2. Preschool Montessori - 1.7 to 2kpm
3. British Council - 2.4k per year
4. Tuition with group size of 15 (e.g. Mind Stretcher) per subject - $120 per month for lower primary
5. Adam Khoo motivational camp - 2.5k in one week
6. Personal tuition (language) - 300 per month (4 times a month only)
7. Tuition with group size of 5-8 - 200 per month
8. Personal swimming lesson - 250 per month
9. Personal Piano lesson - 120 per month
10. Mindchamp guarantee improve one grade tuition - 10k per year
these are GEP students who went for tuition, not those who made it into GEP because of tuition.
WHY DO THEY EVEN NEED TUITION??!!! to make sure they get 290, instead of 275 in PSLE??!!!
sorry, but i can't reconcile with such kiasu mentality. to me, tuition is for those who need an extra help in their studies.
Let young people explain to you :D I learnt most of my stuff in tuition center rather than in class. You will not think that tuition is not important if you have seen how the teacher rush through the teaching.
i learn all from internet.. :ashamed1::ashamed1:
Let young people explain to you :D I learnt most of my stuff in tuition center rather than in class. You will not think that tuition is not important if you have seen how the teacher rush through the teaching.
that's fine. if you are weak in a subject and need help, please go enrol in tuition. but if you are in GEP..........by the way, if GEP students can't catch up, they are not worthy to be in GEP
i was half bored throughout my primary school days cos' i find the pace too slow
i think you are out of touch of reality, let me quote some of the "common" stuff:
-1. Delivery - normally 3k but can go up to 10k if got problem
0. Baby care - 1kpm
0.5. Confinement lady - 3k
1. Fully day childcare or half day playgroup - 1kpm
2. Preschool Montessori - 1.7 to 2kpm
3. British Council - 2.4k per year
4. Tuition with group size of 15 (e.g. Mind Stretcher) per subject - $120 per month for lower primary
5. Adam Khoo motivational camp - 2.5k in one week
6. Personal tuition (language) - 300 per month (4 times a month only)
7. Tuition with group size of 5-8 - 200 per month
8. Personal swimming lesson - 250 per month
9. Personal Piano lesson - 120 per month
10. Mindchamp guarantee improve one grade tuition - 10k per year
this is for middle and upper class kids. yes, numbers are about right. i reckon each child is $1k/mth for basic level with some courses thrown in. not talking about montessori type.
lol. !! it is either a need or want.. :D:D:D
for me, i don't think i need any of the above.. :p
when you have kids, let's discuss this again.
Let young people explain to you :D I learnt most of my stuff in tuition center rather than in class. You will not think that tuition is not important if you have seen how the teacher rush through the teaching.
yes nowadays it is very difficult to learn in a proper classroom. class size is too big.
The standard of psle now is very much higher than the standard in 5 or 10 years old ago
They have more higher order thinking questions. :D With this type rate, our poor kids/grandchildren may be doing master degree standard in JC:scared-5:
Ya, true. Sometimes, mine come back to teach me. We should learn from them instead. Children/grandchildren upgrade, we also must upgrade. Haha!
that's fine. if you are weak in a subject and need help, please go enrol in tuition. but if you are in GEP..........by the way, if GEP students can't catch up, they are not worthy to be in GEP
i was half bored throughout my primary school days cos' i find the pace too slow
The group study I attended, majority are from top school, not sure if they are from GEP thou. And I paid $300 per topic once per week (iirc) and that is like 10 years ago :D From dunno to Grade A wor :p So... Tuition is still very important unless the child is very discipline.
4 of my primary classmates turned out to be SAF overseas scholars and none had tuition. we all did just fine
4 of my primary classmates turned out to be SAF overseas scholars and none had tuition. we all did just fine
Ok, I will do an experiment. I will have 2 kids in future. One grow up with enrichment course and tuition, the other one with nothing. Haha...
Ok, I will do an experiment. I will have 2 kids in future. One grow up with enrichment course and tuition, the other one with nothing. Haha...
it boils down to the genes to begin with. even for twins, not exactly the same. my 3 kids brought up under same control environment, outcome totally diff. so your experiment will not work.
A leader is born or a leader is make? :D:D:D
A leader is born or a leader is make? :D:D:D
trust me, even the academics don't have an answer. there is no universally agreed definition of leadership in the first place
It all boils down to expectation. My kids have the basic education is sufficient. Most importantly, they have to be street smart! Not study smart.
With the inherited multiple properties, my kids should be well taken care of. So yeah, heck to all the tuitions and enrichment scams.
A leader is born or a leader is make? :D:D:D
I would think Obama is an example of a leader born to lead and Lee Hsien Loong is an example of a leader groomed to lead from young.
phantom_opera
27-02-13, 16:05
I would think Obama is an example of a leader born to lead and Lee Hsien Loong is an example of a leader groomed to lead from young.
because Obama is a born salesman ... LHL is good at Maths:rolleyes:
because Obama is a born salesman ... LHL is good at Maths:rolleyes:
and george bush jr is a poor salesman and a failure at math??
phantom_opera
27-02-13, 16:09
and george bush jr is a poor salesman and a failure at math??
lol ... I think Bush got conned by many of the people around him ... he said Saddam got WMD but ended up there is nothing ... he also a fool to let Alan Greenspan & Wall Street go on auto pilot on subprime
lol ... I think Bush got conned by many of the people around him ... he said Saddam got WMD but ended up there is nothing ... he also a fool to let Alan Greenspan & Wall Street go on auto pilot on subprime
so he was a poor salesman, a failure at math and hopeless in choosing friends??!!!
so he was a poor salesman, a failure at math and hopeless in choosing friends??!!!but he has good karma and born in the right family.
A leader is born or a leader is make? :D:D:D
Leadershit..
Leader is born. Shit is Made. :D :D :D
these are GEP students who went for tuition, not those who made it into GEP because of tuition.
WHY DO THEY EVEN NEED TUITION??!!! to make sure they get 290, instead of 275 in PSLE??!!!
sorry, but i can't reconcile with such kiasu mentality. to me, tuition is for those who need an extra help in their studies.
Yes. GEP also got exams la. I saw some got in by mistake one n parents bochap n did badlyn lost their gep status after primary
A leader is born or a leader is make? :D:D:D
A leader is make.
http://www.scienceclarified.com/scitech/images/lsge_0001_0001_0_img0007.jpg
Yes. GEP also got exams la. I saw some got in by mistake one n parents bochap n did badlyn lost their gep status after primary
am not contesting that GEP do not need to sit for PSLEs. my take is PSLE is meant for everyone in the spectrum of abilities and GEP students should be right up there - top 1-2% in the bell curve.
If these folks need tuition, what about the rest of the 98%, bearing in mind that not all can afford enrolling into the likes of Learning Lab?
A leader is make.
and the nature camp will shred you to pieces for that. the debate as to nurture v nature is still ongoing in the academic circle
why not look at the world around us for example?
1) if bee larva given royal jelly, then it becomes queen.
if not given royal jelly, then it is normal bee.
2) alpha males are usually the largest animals.
how do they become larger? 1st born will out compete the later born for milk.
why not look at the world around us for example?
1) if bee larva given royal jelly, then it becomes queen.
if not given royal jelly, then it is normal bee.
2) alpha males are usually the largest animals.
how do they become larger? 1st born will out compete the later born for milk.
This is exactly our education system here. If feed with honey, becomes normal bee, if feed with royal jelly ( lot of gep materials n quality enrichment), then becomes queen (leader). :D
am not contesting that GEP do not need to sit for PSLEs. my take is PSLE is meant for everyone in the spectrum of abilities and GEP students should be right up there - top 1-2% in the bell curve.
If these folks need tuition, what about the rest of the 98%, bearing in mind that not all can afford enrolling into the likes of Learning Lab?
Err, they are GEP students, that doesn't mean they do well in psle. I have seen some got 230+n 240+ which are average results. If you rallied for them to make it to top 1-2%, the whole GEP mums will protest. Theie usual reasons are GEP programme do not prepare them for psle drilling as they spent a lot time to do project. But you ask school and teachers, they all said GEP students are well prepared for PSLE.
The current situation is psle tested 200% ( a lot of additional higher order thinking questons. Only GEP students are exposed to now) n normal school teaches 100% syllabus n foundation classes teach 75% syllabus n take psle foundation paper n thier tscore will b adjusted down by 25%.
You outdated already, almost the whole nation are now taking tuition to make up the shortfall of 100% in order to do well in psle if they are not in gep class. If in gep, almost all also take tuition to catch up. :D
A bad vicious cycle now as everyone is trying to outsmart other to get higher tscore. Parents blames moe to set unrealistic psle standard and they have to send their kids to tuition now. moe blames parents to b kiadu n send the kids for tuition n they have no choice but have to raise the standard
To solve this problem, if I head moe. I will scrap GEP program as it doesnt serve any major purposes but driving up the unlistic standard for psle and costing a lot of money on education. Gov can say they only spend 4% GDP in education. It' s not true in reality, on average, parents pay more in thousands on tuition. All these money could be better diverted to other areas and help our economic.
We dont need another parallel private centre for education.
GEP is really 伤财劳民!
Err, they are GEP students, that doesn't mean they do well in psle. I have seen some got 230+n 240+ which are average results. If you rallied for them to make it to top 1-2%, the whole GEP mums will protest. Theie usual reasons are GEP programme do not prepare them for psle drilling as they spent a lot time to do project. But you ask school and teachers, they all said GEP students are well prepared for PSLE.
The current situation is psle tested 200% ( a lot of additional higher order thinking questons. Only GEP students are exposed to now) n normal school teaches 100% syllabus n foundation classes teach 75% syllabus n take psle foundation paper n thier tscore will b adjusted down by 25%.
You outdated already, almost the whole nation are now taking tuition to make up the shortfall of 100% in order to do well in psle if they are not in gep class. If in gep, almost all also take tuition to catch up. :D
A bad vicious cycle now as everyone is trying to outsmart other to get higher tscore. Parents blames moe to set unrealistic psle standard and they have to send their kids to tuition now. moe blames parents to b kiadu n send the kids for tuition n they have no choice but have to raise the standard
the GEP students are the top 1-2%. if PSLE, as you've claimed contains questions of higher order learning, then tuition will never help. tuition is meant for rote learning, nothing more - e.g. by the look of the 1st three words in a question, the student knows the answer, not because of thinking, but through repetitive drilling. i'm pretty sure that most of them, who enrol in tuition classes, are of the mentality - "can never be over-prepared"
i am aware that tuition is prevalent, and i'm pretty confident that the 230/240s GEP are outliers. if the education system is as claimed, then i might as well sack all the MOE teachers, shut down the public schools and get students directly into tuition centers?!
and to think that we have ZERO nobel peace prize winners, or even nominees.
the GEP students are the top 1-2%. if PSLE, as you've claimed contains questions of higher order learning, then tuition will never help. tuition is meant for rote learning, nothing more - e.g. by the look of the 1st three words in a question, the student knows the answer, not because of thinking, but through repetitive drilling. i'm pretty sure that most of them, who enrol in tuition classes, are of the mentality - "can never be over-prepared"
i am aware that tuition is prevalent, and i'm pretty confident that the 230/240s GEP are outliers. if the education system is as claimed, then i might as well sack all the MOE teachers, shut down the public schools and get students directly into tuition centers?!
and to think that we have ZERO nobel peace prize winners, or even nominees.
Those tution centres which are meant for rote learning are slowly out of business as ineffective. All those popular tuiton centres, oops! They are now called enrichment centres such as TLL, you looked at their materials, all are higher thinking materials nowadays. :D
Already many parents voiced out the current education system, moe up to now do nothing. Standard shoot up through the roof just these 5 years.
Btw, you may not know that all the good teachers are now in private where all the money are.:D kids told me they learnt all in private centres but do revision in our public school.
You can check our textbook - think n nothing much in the text book. In fact, you can throw those into the dustbins. Next, you looked at their test papers to see if all covered in the textbook or not.
Exactly, too much resources/money are spent in education and moe allows another parallel private centres n yet we are not much better off.
Those tution centres which are meant for rote learning are slowly out of business as ineffective. All those popular tuiton centres, oops! They are now called enrichment centres such as TLL, you looked at their materials, all are higher thinking materials nowadays. :D
Already many parents voiced out the current education system, moe up to now do nothing. Standard shoot up through the roof just these 5 years.
if the claims are true, the more we should sack the entire MOE, shut all primary schools and demand for the head of the education minister since they are not doing what they are paid for
and the nature camp will shred you to pieces for that. the debate as to nurture v nature is still ongoing in the academic circle
Put LKY in China and he will still be LKY.
Put him in Singapore he is the leader.
Put him in Africa, he will be running around looking for his next meal.
A Leader is make not born.
You outdated already, almost the whole nation are now taking tuition to make up the shortfall of 100% in order to do well in psle if they are not in gep class. If in gep, almost all also take tuition to catch up. :D
A bad vicious cycle now as everyone is trying to outsmart other to get higher tscore. Parents blames moe to set unrealistic psle standard and they have to send their kids to tuition now. moe blames parents to b kiadu n send the kids for tuition n they have no choice but have to raise the standard
Why are so much money spent on tuition and enrichment classes? To develop and shape the children to be "elites."
And I thought the majority of Sporeans dislike the "elites."
Why are so much money spent on tuition and enrichment classes? To develop and shape the children to be "elites."
And I thought the majority of Sporeans dislike the "elites."
coz many Singaporean are double headed they say but in the heart they hope the best for their kids. best become elites.
but then if we have a nation full of elites. Will the elites feel elite anymore? maybe must have elites of elites.
Put LKY in China and he will still be LKY.
Put him in Singapore he is the leader.
Put him in Africa, he will be running around looking for his next meal.
A Leader is make not born.
let me poke some holes in your example - is he born with leadership qualities, e.g. the typical charisma, A-type personality? is his IQ/intellect a product of nature or nurture?
if the academics are still debating about it, don't bother
let me poke some holes in your example - is he born with leadership qualities, e.g. the typical charisma, A-type personality? is his IQ/intellect a product of nature or nurture?
if the academics are still debating about it, don't bother
What else can academics do other than debating.
I always believe in 时势造英雄.
A person may have have potentieal leadership quality but if dont have opportunity, he is still a nobody.
刘邦 is one good example.
I always believe in 时势造英雄.
A person may have have potentieal leadership quality but if dont have opportunity, he is still a nobody.
刘邦 is one good example.
If 刘邦 does not have opportunity, how he became first emperor of 汉 dynasty in the end?:rolleyes: He is the typical 时势造英雄.
If 刘邦 does not have opportunity, how he became first emperor of 汉 dynasty in the end?:rolleyes: He is the typical 时势造英雄.
That's exactly what I meant. ;)
felicia_sg
28-02-13, 19:28
Wah, like that you need to sack several past education ministers because they are the ones who introduced all these things, including IP & GEP schools etc (like current Finance Minister cum Deputy PM, Ng EH, Prof Tay Eng Soon (deceased), ...) :banghead:
if the claims are true, the more we should sack the entire MOE, shut all primary schools and demand for the head of the education minister since they are not doing what they are paid for
A leader is born or a leader is make? :D:D:D
looking at my kids, i am 90% certain that leaders are born.
you can train someone to be a manager, but you can't train someone to be a leader
It all boils down to expectation. My kids have the basic education is sufficient. Most importantly, they have to be street smart! Not study smart.
With the inherited multiple properties, my kids should be well taken care of. So yeah, heck to all the tuitions and enrichment scams.
you are not doing justice to your grandchildren if you assume that the pptys will keep your children well taken care of.
Put LKY in China and he will still be LKY.
Put him in Singapore he is the leader.
Put him in Africa, he will be running around looking for his next meal.
A Leader is make not born.
LKY may not do as well in china as in SGP. but he will do not too badly still.
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