View Full Version : Should there be restriction on landed property?
Should government impose restriction on ownership of landed property to prevent individual from land hogging and new citizens using citizenship to profiteer on landed property.
Here are my suggestion
a) Singaporeans can only own a maximum on 1 landed property at any one time
b) For new sg citizens not born in Singapore,
i) They will not be allowed to rent out their landed property
ii) MOP of 5 years or face Additional SSD
buttercarp
12-02-13, 10:40
Aiyo, Ringo... why are you so against landed property?
It is private, so why should there be so strict control over it?
Should government impose restriction on ownership of landed property to prevent individual from land hogging and new citizens using citizenship to profiteer on landed property.
Here are my suggestion
a) Singaporeans can only own a maximum on 1 landed property at any one time
b) For new sg citizens not born in Singapore,
i) They will not be allowed to rent out their landed property
ii) MOP of 5 years or face Additional SSD
Landed already have more than their fair share of worries, such as incidence of pests (for e.g. mosquitoes causing dengue fever) and parking headaches (especially those near shopping centres or amenities).
The issue with new citizens is that they are eligible for both HDB and landed immediately, and both present problems for native Singaporeans. Condos on the other hand are mainly supported by Singaporeans in my view.
Any easy solution? I doubt so.
smellyfish
12-02-13, 10:55
(a) is never ever going to happen; the MIWs surely wont pass a law that affect them, their relatives, and their friends at the highest echelon the most.
i also cannot imagine a Kwek Leng Beng or a Ooi Hong Leong or a Ong Beng Seng all limited to one landed each.
Landed already have more than their fair share of worries, such as incidence of pests (for e.g. mosquitoes causing dengue fever) and parking headaches (especially those near shopping centres or amenities).
The issue with new citizens is that they are eligible for both HDB and landed immediately, and both present problems for native Singaporeans. Condos on the other hand are mainly supported by Singaporeans in my view.
Any easy solution? I doubt so.
I believe should just focus on the price of HDB will do. This will ensure that people have access to cheap housing no matter what happen. As for landed and PC, we should let the market decide for itself.
The government recent CM is not to control the private market pricing but to control the loan as it is going to a dangerously high level for all the major bank in Singapore.
I believe should just focus on the price of HDB will do. This will ensure that people have access to cheap housing no matter what happen. As for landed and PC, we should let the market decide for itself.
The government recent CM is not to control the private market pricing but to control the loan as it is going to a dangerously high level for all the major bank in Singapore.
landed properties in Singapore should be something meant for born and bred Singaporeans to enjoy, not something which can easily be bought and hog by investors to make money.
Aiyo, Ringo... why are you so against landed property?
It is private, so why should there be so strict control over it?
He is not against lah....he has been eyeing landed for a long time now so every opportunity he gets, he will try to talk it down. Just read his posts in the landed sub-forum. Always negative. The facts are clear below
From thread started by RINGO33 titled : I LOVE THIS LANDED PROPERTY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo33
this landed look lovely
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...ury-home-upp-t (http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/11069591/for-sale-contemporary-thai-style-luxury-home-upp-t)
With the white paper on population passed, he now has to face the reality that there may be quite a no. of new citizens competing with him for landed and driving up prices so his dream has just gone up in smoke
landed properties in Singapore should be something meant for born and bred Singaporeans to enjoy, not something which can easily be bought and hog by investors to make money.
It's ok as long as they and their future generations contribute to our future generations.
Only with magnanimity can our nation grow stronger over time.
As Khaw says, as long as native Singaporeans have access to affordable HDBs, it's alright already. Not everyone wants to live in landed actually.
Haha, are u too free today?? Kidding...
This is private property, the meaning of private u know? Although it might have lose its meaning after so many CM but that doesn't mean the govt is free to intervene anything in the free market. My opinion...:)
Ppl make money u not happy? Is it a crime? Relax la...:D everything also intervene die la. Or should they make landed affordable? :D
landed properties in Singapore should be something meant for born and bred Singaporeans to enjoy, not something which can easily be bought and hog by investors to make money.
It's ok as long as they and their future generations contribute to our future generations.
Only with magnanimity can our nation grow stronger over time.
As Khaw says, as long as native Singaporeans have access to affordable HDBs, it's alright already. Not everyone wants to live in landed actually.
there is no such thing as emotion or feeling when it comes to making money or pursuing opportunity. A good example will be seeing HDB address owner buying up 10-20m properties in Singapore or seeing our million dollar china import ping pong stars end up going back to China for good.
there is no such thing as emotion or feeling when it comes to making money or pursuing opportunity. A good example will be seeing HDB address owner buying up 10-20m properties in Singapore or seeing our million dollar china import ping pong stars end up going back to China for good.
If you want to analyse without emotion also have to consider the big picture. For every 1 that leaves, there are 9 who stay on with their next generation. Is there net gain or loss for SG overall?
In the case you were referring to, she contributed to help put SG on the world map at the very least. It's not that SG had not gained anything from her. It was win-win for both.
HDB owners are also subject to Govt ruling (5-year MOP etc) and they might have lost out on opportunities to invest within the 5 year period.
Being bitter never helps the individual or the country. Consider win-win situations instead of insisting that everything must be fair. Nothing in the world is fair.
there is no such thing as emotion or feeling when it comes to making money or pursuing opportunity. A good example will be seeing HDB address owner buying up 10-20m properties in Singapore or seeing our million dollar china import ping pong stars end up going back to China for good.
I do not understand the exact argument here as a landed buy is almost always an emotional buy for most people.
I have seen HDB buyers buying 30-40m GCBs. Most fall within the category of new citizens. Are they competing with the majority of Singaporeans? I guess you fall within the elite group whereby there is direct competition in the GCB playground. Why not "downgrade" to the Semi-D and D categories instead then?
Lastly, there seems to be no corrrelation between table-tennis stars leaving SG and landed?
I do not understand the exact argument here as a landed buy is almost always an emotional buy for most people.
I have seen HDB buyers buying 30-40m GCBs. Most fall within the category of new citizens. Are they competing with the majority of Singaporeans? I guess you fall within the elite group whereby there is direct competition in the GCB playground. Why not "downgrade" to the Semi-D and D categories instead then?
Lastly, there seems to be no corrrelation between table-tennis stars leaving SG and landed?
welcome back bullman:cheers2:
<p>well said...one need to constantly strive to stay afloat, relevant and competitive...which is what we have achieved today. not by chance...if we keep complaining and slack behind, we will be in trouble especially our next generation.</p><p> </p><p>
</p><p>Being bitter never helps the individual or the country. Consider win-win situations instead of insisting that everything must be fair. Nothing in the world is fair.</p>
welcome back bullman:cheers2:
Hi buddy! Took a hiatus after CM7 to consolidate my thoughts. Back to contribute to this wonderful forum in any small manner that I can.
All you need is to vote enough moron to parliament to use the act and convert all GCB to HDB land.
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;ident=5f6a65c6-d87a-4ac2-ac23-86f63c5f619c;page=0;query=DocId%3Ad9ce0dc1-ace5-497a-8d75-4973861101dc%20%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0#legis
Acquisition of Land
From time to time, land in the private sector may be required for various vital public programmes such as schools, hospitals, housing and infrastructure developments including roads, drains and mass rapid transit projects. The legal framework for the acquisition of private land by the Government is provided for in the Land Acquisition Act.
SLA is the sole government authority responsible for the administration of the Land Acquisition Act. Our role is to ensure that acquisitions are properly justified through close scrutiny of public development projects affecting private land. We are also committed to ensuring that compensation is appropriately assessed and promptly disbursed to the affected landowners.
Yes. Just evict 1 GCBs you can create space to house 45 families.
Basis of GCB land 1500SQM x 3.0 plot ratio = 4500sqm
4500 / 100sqm 4room flats = 45 units of happy families.
EVICT THE GCBs!
All you need is to vote enough moron to parliament to use the act and convert all GCB to HDB land.
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;ident=5f6a65c6-d87a-4ac2-ac23-86f63c5f619c;page=0;query=DocId%3Ad9ce0dc1-ace5-497a-8d75-4973861101dc%20%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0#legis
Acquisition of Land
From time to time, land in the private sector may be required for various vital public programmes such as schools, hospitals, housing and infrastructure developments including roads, drains and mass rapid transit projects. The legal framework for the acquisition of private land by the Government is provided for in the Land Acquisition Act.
SLA is the sole government authority responsible for the administration of the Land Acquisition Act. Our role is to ensure that acquisitions are properly justified through close scrutiny of public development projects affecting private land. We are also committed to ensuring that compensation is appropriately assessed and promptly disbursed to the affected landowners.
I do not understand the exact argument here as a landed buy is almost always an emotional buy for most people.
I have seen HDB buyers buying 30-40m GCBs. Most fall within the category of new citizens. Are they competing with the majority of Singaporeans? I guess you fall within the elite group whereby there is direct competition in the GCB playground. Why not "downgrade" to the Semi-D and D categories instead then?
Lastly, there seems to be no corrrelation between table-tennis stars leaving SG and landed?
emotion only happens if you are buying a home. When you are buying assets for investment or to wash dirty money, you dont need emotion, you just need opportunity to do so and I am totally against the idea of letting these so-called new citizens coming to our shore to hog our land. I am not against them buying, but there should be a limit to how many they could own and how they intend to use it./
table tennis star and new citizens are just using Singapore as a stepping stone, they will leave when this country doesnt not offer them the lifestyle they need or if the green is greener else where.
table tennis star and new citizens are just using Singapore as a stepping stone, they will leave when this country doesnt not offer them the lifestyle they need or if the green is greener else where.
I agree with you that there should be some kinds of limitations on what new citizens are eligible for.
But do consider the following:
When we say that they are using SG as stepping stone, are we sure that SG is not using them as a stepping stone to gain foothold into some Sports International games coverage, just like what many other countries are doing? In fact, that particular game is dominated by Chinese players, no matter which Nation they represent.
Are you sure the player deliberately asked to leave, and was not "terminated" due to recent performance? Maybe the organisation and the media gave her some face to let her say she chose to return?
Also, if we have a SG talent who became citizen elsewhere, got married to a Singaporean and returned to SG after she gave birth (in her 30s) to follow her husband, to fulfill her duties as a wife and mother, would we have negative feelings towards her?
Again, I restate that I agree that some limitations here are useful, but excessive ones do not show our magnanimity, which will limit our country in the long run.
I agree with you that there should be some kinds of limitations on what new citizens are eligible for.
But do consider the following:
When we say that they are using SG as stepping stone, are we sure that SG is not using them as a stepping stone to gain foothold into some Sports International games coverage, just like what many other countries are doing? In fact, that particular game is dominated by Chinese players, no matter which Nation they represent.
Are you sure the player deliberately asked to leave, and was not "terminated" due to recent performance? Maybe the organisation and the media gave her some face to let her say she chose to return?
Also, if we have a SG talent who became citizen elsewhere, got married to a Singaporean and returned to SG after she gave birth (in her 30s) to follow her husband, to fulfill her duties as a wife and mother, would we have negative feelings towards her?
Again, I restate that I agree that some limitations here are useful, but excessive ones do not show our magnanimity, which will limit our country in the long run.
For wealthy new citizens holding on to Singapore citizenship, they can easily go back to their home country and live as an expat, while at the same time continue to use Singapore as a safe heaven to park their wealth and bring up their children through our school system.
Should we allow these new citizens to own multiple landed property while they are not even living in Singapore?
Should we allow these new citizens to own multiple landed property while they are not even living in Singapore?
Is there a probation period for "New Citizens"?
As long as they obtain citizenship.. they shd be accorded the same status as any citizen. This is just being consistent with worldwide practices.
Is there a probation period for "New Citizens"?
As long as they obtain citizenship.. they shd be accorded the same status as any citizen. This is just being consistent with worldwide practices.
This is only for discussion purposes and not meant to judge anyone.
I have peers who left Spore in their early twenties and worked overseas for many many years. They have not given up their citizenship and some are owners of HDB flats, which are rented out. These people still receive some benefits from the country like growth dividends.
Although they were born and educated in Spore, they gave their youth and contributed economically to another country.
Who do you think is more beneficial for this country? New citizens who is in our work force or Sporeans who chose to work elsewhere from their youth to their retirement?
buttercarp
13-02-13, 18:29
I think it is very difficult to differentiate new sc n old sc.
Sc means sc n all sc should be treated the same way.
If the sc stays in another country it is privilege as an sc to be able to let out his hdb flat.
This is only for discussion purposes and not meant to judge anyone.
I have peers who left Spore in their early twenties and worked overseas for many many years. They have not given up their citizenship and some are owners of HDB flats, which are rented out. These people still receive some benefits from the country like growth dividends.
Although they were born and educated in Spore, they gave their youth and contributed economically to another country.
Who do you think is more beneficial for this country? New citizens who is in our work force or Sporeans who chose to work elsewhere from their youth to their retirement?
The ability to procure a landed property, and the economic contribution of an individual, has no co-relation.
I think it is very difficult to differentiate new sc n old sc.
Sc means sc n all sc should be treated the same way.
If the sc stays in another country it is privilege as an sc to be able to let out his hdb flat.
beg to differ. there should be 2 categories of citizens. those who serve ns and those who do not. of course, there will be difficulties, if foreigner woman become citizen, is she 1st tier citizen or 2nd tier citizen.
For wealthy new citizens holding on to Singapore citizenship, they can easily go back to their home country and live as an expat, while at the same time continue to use Singapore as a safe heaven to park their wealth and bring up their children through our school system.
Should we allow these new citizens to own multiple landed property while they are not even living in Singapore?
I think your issue is more fundamental. The issue is more towards "should homes be only reserved for own stay or investment"?
Our system will not change in this case. Everyone worldwide is looking for places to park, hedge or grow their savings.
I think your issue is more fundamental. The issue is more towards "should homes be only reserved for own stay or investment"?
Our system will not change in this case. Everyone worldwide is looking for places to park, hedge or grow their savings.
Thats not true. The system has already changed after several round of cooling measures to discourage foreign investors to park their money in Singapore property.
And I see no reason why Singapore should allow new citizens to hog lands in Singapore while they continue to live abroad. ultimately those who will suffer will be the born and bred Singaporeans
this is the problem with many ppl. cant they who pay can make their own choice to stay or to leave it vacant? would ppl feel better if they did not rent out but leave it vacant to collect dust? These landed are not in any case subsidize rite? So just let ppl choose what they want to do la...relax...the system hasn't change much except that it is becoming more expensive to invest, thats all...:2cents:
Thats not true. The system has already changed after several round of cooling measures to discourage foreign investors to park their money in Singapore property.
And I see no reason why Singapore should allow new citizens to hog lands in Singapore while they continue to live abroad. ultimately those who will suffer will be the born and bred Singaporeans
.... actually I am not sure what kind of landed you are talking about.
If you are talking about GCB kind, you should not be complaining right? Either you have the money or you don't....
If you are thinking about an entry level landed like terrace house, I think a VERY HIGH percentage of terrace houses are owned by Singaporeans vs New citizens.
I think landed are subjected to the same CM restrictions as condos but there is much less foreign speculation in the entry level landed I think.
Thats not true. The system has already changed after several round of cooling measures to discourage foreign investors to park their money in Singapore property.
And I see no reason why Singapore should allow new citizens to hog lands in Singapore while they continue to live abroad. ultimately those who will suffer will be the born and bred Singaporeans
The system has not changed much for the private segment, except for higher taxes.
And I beg to differ regarding "suffering Singaporeans". HDBs are our birthright and bedrock.
Just don't think about landed can already. I prefer to be in the air than grounded. The air is better. Personal sentiments only.
The system has not changed much for the private segment, except for higher taxes.
And I beg to differ regarding "suffering Singaporeans". HDBs are our birthright and bedrock.
Just don't think about landed can already. I prefer to be in the air than grounded. The air is better. Personal sentiments only.
What ringo lkes to see is a more equitable society rather than a capitalist society we live in now.
instead of the elites, now we have a new group to compete hording land while the not so well off are cramped up in hdb flats.
HDB flats cramped & bad? Then it is time for gov to abolish Building HDB flats, all private just like HK? :p
What ringo lkes to see is a more equitable society rather than a capitalist society we live in now.
instead of the elites, now we have a new group to compete hording land while the not so well off are cramped up in hdb flats.
I think landed property in Singapore should be reserve for Singaporeans who are either born in Singapore or family with son who served national service, or daughter who have given birth to Singaporean children in Singapore
I think landed property in Singapore should be reserve for Singaporeans who are either born in Singapore or family with son who served national service, or daughter who have given birth to Singaporean children in Singapore
I think further tightening is required. Use HDB family nucleus & disallow sole ownership or multiple ownership. Any sale of landed should be only to Singaporean families only. This will encourage and advance family as a basic unit of society.
It should fall under population and planning policies to allow citizens space to grow and nurture their young so that the country objectives of defending your land can be easily understood. Try telling the young singaporeans now about defending your HDB flat? sounds like a joke right?
I think landed property in Singapore should be reserve for Singaporeans who are either born in Singapore or family with son who served national service, or daughter who have given birth to Singaporean children in Singapore
Then there will be people who lobby for the same criteria for MPs.
I think further tightening is required. Use HDB family nucleus & disallow sole ownership or multiple ownership. Any sale of landed should be only to Singaporean families only. This will encourage and advance family as a basic unit of society.
It should fall under population and planning policies to allow citizens space to grow and nurture their young so that the country objectives of defending your land can be easily understood. Try telling the young singaporeans now about defending your HDB flat? sounds like a joke right?
there are people who doesnt realize that born and bred Singapore living in HDB estate has got to give up all their precious neighborhood space for development, while NC could just bring their money to scope up multiple landed properties to preserves their wealth.
Then there will be people who lobby for the same criteria for MPs.
Do you know that MPs are elected by Singaporeans? are you born in Singapore?
might want to kiss the 6.9m goodbye liao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upYDD8im5W0
Do you know that MPs are elected by Singaporeans? are you born in Singapore?
Yes I do. New citizens as MPs was one sore issue during the last GE FYI. MP Puthucheary was a new citizen from 2008.
It does not make sense if he became our MP but is not allowed to buy landed housing right?
Yes I do. New citizens as MPs was one sore issue during the last GE FYI. MP Puthucheary was a new citizen from 2008.
It does not make sense if he became our MP but is not allowed to buy landed housing right?
yes, because of the rate which NC are coming into Singapore, it does make perfect sense to impose restriction on NC to buy landed property as we need to protect our sovereign land from ending up in the hands of wealthy NC who make no contribution to the society.
wow, after so many comments u still very persistent that garmen should impose restriction for New SC to buy landed??
they got money, they buy landed u not happy, when all these millionaires start to buy resale HDB and price all rocket high, then u will also be even more unhappy and soon ppl start saying wa all these rich new SC should not be allow to buy resale HDB la, there should be restriction over it and stop them from buying, if not it will not be affordable for our young generation...:eek:
then in the end, where u want them to stay? all rent? New SC not SC is it? they are new because they come later than your great grand parents...they are new doesn't mean they are not contributing more than our local born and bred existing SC...ppl got good and bad. everthing got both side, that is why we have two eyes, see from both sides...:o :2cents:
just offering my opinion and not to offend u.
yes, because of the rate which NC are coming into Singapore, it does make perfect sense to impose restriction on NC to buy landed property as we need to protect our sovereign land from ending up in the hands of wealthy NC who make no contribution to the society.
wow, after so many comments u still very persistent that garmen should impose restriction for New SC to buy landed??
they got money, they buy landed u not happy, when all these millionaires start to buy resale HDB and price all rocket high, then u will also be even more unhappy and soon ppl start saying wa all these rich new SC should not be allow to buy resale HDB la, there should be restriction over it and stop them from buying, if not it will not be affordable for our young generation...:eek:
then in the end, where u want them to stay? all rent? New SC not SC is it? they are new because they come later than your great grand parents...they are new doesn't mean they are not contributing more than our local born and bred existing SC...ppl got good and bad. everthing got both side, that is why we have two eyes, see from both sides...:o :2cents:
just offering my opinion and not to offend u.
The difference between landed and HDB/PC is that the supply for highrise apartments is almost unlimited as government can always build higher and deeper underground. Plus most landed in Singapore are FH while HDB are all LH.
When a country that has a policy that allow truck load of NC coming into Singapore everyday, then I think its important that we impose temporary measures to prevent any abuse.
Having said that, may I know why are you so eager to sell our FH land to NC? Self interest? Or are you hoping that your daughter will end up in a Ferrari driven by NC?
wow, after so many comments u still very persistent that garmen should impose restriction for New SC to buy landed??
they got money, they buy landed u not happy, when all these millionaires start to buy resale HDB and price all rocket high, then u will also be even more unhappy and soon ppl start saying wa all these rich new SC should not be allow to buy resale HDB la, there should be restriction over it and stop them from buying, if not it will not be affordable for our young generation...:eek:
then in the end, where u want them to stay? all rent? New SC not SC is it? they are new because they come later than your great grand parents...they are new doesn't mean they are not contributing more than our local born and bred existing SC...ppl got good and bad. everthing got both side, that is why we have two eyes, see from both sides...:o :2cents:
just offering my opinion and not to offend u.
You are quoting him out of context. The objective of discussion is one man one property. It will be a privilege to buy but not to hoard.
Please don't make crazy presumptions just like the elites.
wow, after so many comments u still very persistent that garmen should impose restriction for New SC to buy landed??
they got money, they buy landed u not happy, when all these millionaires start to buy resale HDB and price all rocket high, then u will also be even more unhappy and soon ppl start saying wa all these rich new SC should not be allow to buy resale HDB la, there should be restriction over it and stop them from buying, if not it will not be affordable for our young generation...:eek:
then in the end, where u want them to stay? all rent? New SC not SC is it? they are new because they come later than your great grand parents...they are new doesn't mean they are not contributing more than our local born and bred existing SC...ppl got good and bad. everthing got both side, that is why we have two eyes, see from both sides...:o :2cents:
just offering my opinion and not to offend u.
No point lah, he is not happy because all the money that these rich new SC are throwing at landed owners is not going to him. He has invested in apts which are stuck at the moment because resale mkt is in a slump and a lot of new supply coming on-line. Wait till he owns a landed and then miraculously he will sing a different song.
Its the New Year, no point getting ourselves worked up over nothing. Stay happy and have a good year ahead...Huat ah! :cheers4:
I am neither eager, nor am i for the restriction.
what i am pointing out is that why should garmen impose restriction on new SC buying landed? your ears are shut so I dont think I want to go into such personal stuff especially when you start to bring out daughters and stuff like that...this is not rite...case close. Let the rich start to buy HDB and inflat the COV and make the 1 mil hdb common...kidding...
:2cents:
The difference between landed and HDB/PC is that the supply for highrise apartments is almost unlimited as government can always build higher and deeper underground. Plus most landed in Singapore are FH while HDB are all LH.
When a country that has a policy that allow truck load of NC coming into Singapore everyday, then I think its important that we impose temporary measures to prevent any abuse.
Having said that, may I know why are you so eager to sell our FH land to NC? Self interest? Or are you hoping that your daughter will end up in a Ferrari driven by NC?
huh?? :scared-4:
You are quoting him out of context. The objective of discussion is one man one property. It will be a privilege to buy but not to hoard.
Please don't make crazy presumptions just like the elites.
huh?? :scared-4:
Aiyah, already from all the postings from him , you will know his sincerity level.
Before the white paper came out and even now (you read his thread about renting a landed), he would go on and on about how poor landed property is as an investment.
If landed property is such a poor investment in his opinion, why should he worry about new SC buying them up? They may buy one for stay (which meets his objectives) but the rich new SC are surely not stupid enough to pour their money into bad investments by buying more?
Now in this thread, he tries to be all patriotic.
I find his views to be very contradictory which begs to question his real motive in posting all these remarks.
You are quoting him out of context. The objective of discussion is one man one property. It will be a privilege to buy but not to hoard.
Please don't make crazy presumptions just like the elites.
Should not be overly surprise why so many landed property owners are so pro immigrants because the immigrants is the only reason to justify their commitment in landed property in Singapore.
As you can see from my other thread about the mismatch between resale price and rent for landed property, so you dont need to be a economist to know that when interest rate rise which segment of the market will fall first.
Then again, some diehard landed property fans will say that price is not too high, rent is just too low. perhaps when recession comes, rent of landed property could miraculously rise to close the gap. Perhaps perhaps
And yes, my recommendation is that we must prevent NC from coming into Singapore with the purpose for hoarding our land at the expense of the people who have serve this country as Singaporeans.
I am neither eager, nor am i for the restriction.
what i am pointing out is that why should garmen impose restriction on new SC buying landed? your ears are shut so I dont think I want to go into such personal stuff especially when you start to bring out daughters and stuff like that...this is not rite...case close. Let the rich start to buy HDB and inflat the COV and make the 1 mil hdb common...kidding...
:2cents:
You reaction is totally expected and understandable as I dont expect someone who is already struggling to float in the sea of debt will be happy if government put more weight on their back.
Again HDB and landed are different.
Should not be overly surprise why so many landed property owners are so pro immigrants because the immigrants is the only reason to justify their commitment in landed property in Singapore.
As you can see from my other thread about the mismatch between resale price and rent for landed property, so you dont need to be a economist to know that when interest rate rise which segment of the market will fall first.
Then again, some diehard landed property fans will say that price is not too high, rent is just too low. perhaps when recession comes, rent of landed property could miraculously rise to close the gap. Perhaps perhaps
And yes, my recommendation is that we must prevent NC from coming into Singapore with the purpose for hoarding our land at the expense of the people who have serve this country as Singaporeans.
U got to check who are the ppl staying in landed estate.
:cool:
U got to check who are the ppl staying in landed estate.
:cool:
domestic helper, housewife, unemployed, students, taxi driver, hawker teacher fishmonger ah long, pork seller, pmet, bankers, CEO, politicians etc
whats your point?
domestic helper, housewife, unemployed, students, taxi driver, hawker teacher fishmonger ah long, pork seller, pmet, bankers, CEO, politicians etc
whats your point?
The last group is significant, get it.:cool:
They own many many
The last group is significant, get it.:cool:
They own many many
the last group is significant in terms of the wealth, but that doesnt mean they are in favor for 6.9m population.
In fact most Singaporeans I know who are living in prime district landed property are against the idea of 6.9m as they dont depend on property to generate wealth.
To Ringo33
You obviously are of the opinion that investing in landed is a bad decision.
actually with the ridicules price today, investing in landed property in Singapore just doesnt make anymore sense.
Imagine cost of investment at >$1000psf with rental rate of <$2psf. After factoring the interest and cost of up keeping property, what do you have left?
Why then are you so worried about new SC buying up and hoarding the landed and advocating for govt to impose restrictions? Why not let them buy it up and then crash and burn. You can then go and pick it up cheap.
The last group is significant, get it.:cool:
They own many many
Wah. You are so sharp. So its vested interest.
Some born and bread citizen who are ceo's of sg listed companies dont even own or live in one of these GCBs. Wheras some new converted citizen close one eye, buy up two or three GCB. everyone must do some reading in business times then you will appreciate why even local towkays are angry.
Some elite already buay ta han.
Actually >60% of citizens have no objection to white paper, they trust gov able to do a good job. Those making loudest noise is minority ..........:scared-4:
the last group is significant in terms of the wealth, but that doesnt mean they are in favor for 6.9m population.
In fact most Singaporeans I know who are living in prime district landed property are against the idea of 6.9m as they dont depend on property to generate wealth.
Actually >60% of citizens have no objection to white paper, they trust gov able to do a good job. Those making loudest noise is minority ..........:scared-4:
Why 60%?
1) Are you assuming that 100% of PAP voters will agree to 6.9m population?
2) Are you assuming that 100% of those who didnt vote for PAP will disagree with voters?
3) Are you assuming that the result for recent punggol elections does not reflect the ground sentiment towards PAP?
4) Are you assuming that voters number is = citizens number?
actually with the ridicules price today, investing in landed property in Singapore just doesnt make anymore sense.
Imagine cost of investment at >$1000psf with rental rate of <$2psf. After factoring the interest and cost of up keeping property, what do you have left?
Should government impose restriction on ownership of landed property to prevent individual from land hogging and new citizens using citizenship to profiteer on landed property.
Here are my suggestion
a) Singaporeans can only own a maximum on 1 landed property at any one time
b) For new sg citizens not born in Singapore,
i) They will not be allowed to rent out their landed property
ii) MOP of 5 years or face Additional SSD
Could you please help me reconcile these two statements of yours?
If, in your opinion, investing in landed is senseless and a bad investment,
1. How do you expect new citizens to profiteer?
2. Why are you advocating restrictions on new citizens? Wouldn't it be better to let them buy and then choke on their bad investments so that old citizens can buy cheap?
In fact, based on your expert opinion, the better measure would be to disallow old citizens to buy and only let new citizens buy as many as they like, then when they lose big, the old citizens can buy back cheap :D !
Could you please help me reconcile these two statements of yours?
If, in your opinion, investing in landed is senseless and a bad investment,
1. How do you expect new citizens to profiteer?
2. Why are you advocating restrictions on new citizens? Wouldn't it be better to let them buy and then choke on their bad investments so that old citizens can buy cheap?
In fact, based on your expert opinion, the better measure would be to disallow old citizens to buy and only let new citizens buy as many as they like, then when they lose big, the old citizens can buy back cheap :D !
Below is a simple analogy which I hope will explain what I was saying.
Imaging there are 2 Singaporeans, Mr. Prop-T and Mr. Prop-Rich
Prop-T, a born and bred Singaporeans who has servesd NS for his country use all his saving and bought a landed property with 80% loan for own stay as he has been advised that buying landed sure make money because 25K NC per year and limited supply etc etc
While Prop-Rich is NC who originally is from China, came to Singapore with bags full of cash, bought several FH landed properties with no loan and keep them aside for rental. As he is hardly in Singapore due to business commitment in China, he decided to buy a 3 bedder apartment for himself to stay whenever he is back. While he is away, all his rented property are generating income which is financing his living expenses in Singapore, and his investment in landed property are well protected by the sons of Singaporeans who is serving their NS.
So from an investment point of few, who do you think is wiser investors?
Below is a simple analogy which I hope will explain what I was saying.
Imaging there are 2 Singaporeans, Mr. Prop-T and Mr. Prop-Rich
Prop-T, a born and bred Singaporeans who has servesd NS for his country use all his saving and bought a landed property with 80% loan for own stay as he has been advised that buying landed sure make money because 25K NC per year and limited supply etc etc
While Prop-Rich is NC who originally is from China, came to Singapore with bags full of cash, bought several FH landed properties with no loan and keep them aside for rental. As he is hardly in Singapore due to business commitment in China, he decided to buy a 3 bedder apartment for himself to stay whenever he is back. While he is away, all his rented property are generating income which is financing his living expenses in Singapore, and his investment in landed property are well protected by the sons of Singaporeans who is serving their NS.
So from an investment point of few, who do you think is wiser investors?
1. Firstly what is the motivation for Mr PropRich NC to plonk down cash for multiple FH landed, don't live in them, pay high rent for an apt and just hold on to these FH landed since you have claimed many times in other threads that
a. the rents for landed are pathetic
b. maintenance costs are high
c. there are so many empty landed competing for rent
d. the values of landed is already ridiculous
How does Mr Prop Rich NC profiteer?
2. Secondly, assuming there is some motivation driving MR Prop Rich, what is the impact of many other future Mr Prop Rich NC like him plonking down cash for multiple FH landed in SG?
When NC buys landed, it usually results in a very happy seller.
I don't see why this is such a bad thing. Foreign $ is committing to Sg.
1. Firstly what is the motivation for Mr PropRich NC to
plonk down cash for multiple FH landed, don't live in them, pay high rent for an apt and just hold on to these FH landed since you have claimed many times in other threads that
a. the rents for landed are pathetic
b. maintenance costs are high
c. there are so many empty landed competing for rent
d. the values of landed is already ridiculous
How does Mr Prop Rich NC profiteer?
2. Secondly, assuming there is some motivation driving MR Prop Rich, what is the impact of many other future Mr Prop Rich NC like him plonking down cash for multiple FH landed in SG?
you see, when rich NC coming to Singapore, they are actually using Singapore as a secure place to park their money, which sometime could be dirty money from their own country or if their home country are politically unstable. So to them rental returns etc are secondary as their primary goal is wealthy preservation, plus renting them out will also give him positive cash returns which is much better than putting them in the bank.
For prop-t thats a whole difference dimension. He is overly leverage and all he can enjoy is the "paper gain" base on future future sale. Perhaps in his life, me might not even be able to see the fruits of his investment.
This is only a simply analogy, so please dont ask me who is prop-rich, who old he is, if he has mistress etc etc.
When NC buys landed, it usually results in a very happy seller.
I don't see why this is such a bad thing. Foreign $ is committing to Sg.
when NC buys condo it also result in happy sellers, however, the problem is that our government is not very happy with foreign investment driving up property prices as such investment doesnt create job and will only drive up inflation.
And using SG citizenship to buy property in Singapore is a possible loophole which greedy investors (like those buying GCB with HDB address) could explore because our government is bringing in bus load of NC into Singapore everyday.
you see, when rich NC coming to Singapore, they are actually using Singapore as a secure place to park their money, which sometime could be dirty money from their own country or if their home country are politically unstable. So to them rental returns etc are secondary as their primary goal is wealthy preservation, plus renting them out will also give him positive cash returns which is much better than putting them in the bank.
For prop-t thats a whole difference dimension. He is overly leverage and all he can enjoy is the "paper gain" base on future future sale. Perhaps in his life, me might not even be able to see the fruits of his investment.
This is only a simply analogy, so please dont ask me who is prop-rich, who old he is, if he has mistress etc etc.
Get your story straight. First you paint me a scenario and ask me who is the WISER INVESTOR, then you ply me with this fairytale about shady characters who just want to park their money and where rental returns are secondary. Your views in other threads is that landed prices are ridiculous and is going to fall the hardest. How does this gel with their wealth preservation? These characters are considered a 'wise investor' under your definition?
The most hilarious part is when you mentioned "Positive cash returns"
Wow, from a senseless investment, buying a few landed properties is starting to looking good for those with millions of dollars to park because you can get back positive cash returns.
actually with the ridicules price today, investing in landed property in Singapore just doesnt make anymore sense.
Imagine cost of investment at >$1000psf with rental rate of <$2psf. After factoring the interest and cost of up keeping property, what do you have left?
Sure there is no interest cost but what happened to all the supposed high upkeep cost that you are always talking about, property tax, income tax and risk of vacancy because you claim that there are lots of competition.
Even if I play along with you, I still fail to see how the New Citizen is going to PROFITEER based on your scenario. Please help me understand your remark.
If the govt miracuously allows all these characters in as citizens to park their money and they channel it into multiple FH landed, please let me know what will be the likely impact on landed prices ?
Especially what would be the impact on MR Prop-t who bought his landed before all these new citizens?
Get your story straight. First you paint me a scenario and ask me who is the WISER INVESTOR, then you ply me with this fairytale about shady characters who just want to park their money and where rental returns are secondary. Your views in other threads is that landed prices are ridiculous and is going to fall the hardest. How does this gel with their wealth preservation? These characters are considered a 'wise investor' under your definition?
The most hilarious part is when you mentioned "Positive cash returns"
Wow, from a senseless investment, buying a few landed properties is starting to looking good for those with millions of dollars to park because you can get back positive cash returns.
Sure there is no interest cost but what happened to all the supposed high upkeep cost that you are always talking about, property tax, income tax and risk of vacancy because you claim that there are lots of competition.
Even if I play along with you, I still fail to see how the New Citizen is going to PROFITEER based on your scenario. Please help me understand your remark.
If the govt miracuously allows all these characters in as citizens to park their money and they channel it into multiple FH landed, please let me know what will be the likely impact on landed prices ?
Especially what would be the impact on MR Prop-t who bought his landed before all these new citizens?
The reason why I not very keen in engaging any discussion with you is your limited reading capacity as you always have this tendency to selectively read what you choose and then quote me out of context.
Didnt you not remember that I said prop-t took up 80% loan to buy a landed property for self indulgent while other using his citizenship paid his properties in cold hard cash?
Noticed the difference? 1 paid in cash for rental while the other leverage to max for self indulgent and then hoping more truck load of NC coming to Singapore like their life depends on it.
As i told you, this is just an analogy to explain to you 2 very contrasting scenario and I repeat, T and Rich are fictional characters, so please stop asking more question about why this why that how this how that.
The reason why I not very keen in engaging any discussion with you is your limited reading capacity as you always have this tendency to selectively read what you choose and then quote me out of context.
Didnt you not remember that I said prop-t took up 80% loan to buy a landed property for self indulgent while other using his citizenship paid his properties in cold hard cash?
Noticed the difference? 1 paid in cash for rental while the other leverage to max for self indulgent and then hoping more truck load of NC coming to Singapore like their life depends on it.
As i told you, this is just an analogy to explain to you 2 very contrasting scenario and I repeat, T and Rich are fictional characters, so please stop asking more question about why this why that how this how that.
You are the one who is not following the argument and trying to cloud it with your analogies. Let me explain it clearly.
You are the one who is claiming that buying landed property is a senseless investment.
You are also the one also claiming that new citizens will be buying up landed property and we need restrictions or curbs to stop their buying and profiteering from it.
If landed property is such a senseless investment, why must they only buy landed. How are they going to profiteer from it if it is a lousy investment? Can't they buy several high end condos and get much better yields as you tout so often in the other threads?
Therein lies my difficulty in reconciling between the two statements below.
Ringo33][/b]
actually with the ridicules price today, investing in landed property in Singapore just doesnt make anymore sense.
Imagine cost of investment at >$1000psf with rental rate of <$2psf. After factoring the interest and cost of up keeping property, what do you have left?
Ringo33][/b]
Should government impose restriction on ownership of landed property to prevent individual from land hogging and new citizens using citizenship to profiteer on landed property.
Here are my suggestion
a) Singaporeans can only own a maximum on 1 landed property at any one time
b) For new sg citizens not born in Singapore,
i) They will not be allowed to rent out their landed property
ii) MOP of 5 years or face Additional SSD
Therein lies my difficulty in reconciling between the two statements below.
thats not my problem
thats not my problem
Oh please, resorting to such cheap shots just means you have nothing substantive left to counter. Please counter my points if you can because your two statements are totally at odds with each other.
proud owner
18-02-13, 23:22
actually alot of CCR condos > 2000 psf have very very low yield as well ...
yet still many bought well knowing the yield is much lower than OCR or RCR condos
actually alot of CCR condos > 2000 psf have very very low yield as well ...
yet still many bought well knowing the yield is much lower than OCR or RCR condos
And the reason for their buying is ?
proud owner
18-02-13, 23:36
And the reason for their buying is ?
lots of kaching lor
lots of kaching lor
Might be misplaced confidence that the past = future.
Think about how nations have risen and fallen in the last decade. Think about some of the superpower countries we discount just a decade ago, and some of those who have from superpower status, fallen behind. Do you think the current situation can be easily reversed in future?
With the car and human population continuing to grow, the lure of away-from-city living will just get stronger and stronger.
The wild card now is Iskandar. Can they solve the security issue to bring even more investments worldwide into the tips of Southeast Asia? If they can, I will put all my eggs there - you will get a real chance at quality living at a proximity.
I heard it is almost impossible for PR to buy landed properties in SG now. True?
I have no problem about new citizen buying landed.
I heard it is almost impossible for PR to buy landed properties in SG now. True?
I have no problem about new citizen buying landed.
Not too sure as I have not come across any recent numbers on PR approvals for landed.
Ringo33 however, is of the opinion that new citizens will plonk millions of dollars to invest in 'senseless' FH landed investments and profiteer from these 'senseless' investments hence he is lobbying hard for restrictions/curbs on new citizens.
I heard it is almost impossible for PR to buy landed properties in SG now. True?
I have no problem about new citizen buying landed.
Not true, those PR holding onto a QC is akin to holding onto a winning lottery ticket. However, there is an expiry date on this ticket and they tend to get irrational closer to the date, much to the joy of fellow SCs.
Ic, thanks.
I am only against PR buying landed.
Not too sure as I have not come across any recent numbers on PR approvals for landed.
Ringo33 however, is of the opinion that new citizens will plonk millions of dollars to invest in 'senseless' FH landed investments and profiteer from these 'senseless' investments hence he is lobbying hard for restrictions/curbs on new citizens.
It has reached beyond the point of using common sense to rationalise with TS. I really question his/her motive of even starting the thread. Not to discuss the movement of landed in 2013, but to "complain".
As many kind souls have pointed out, landed is really free market play. If a new SC has enough moolah to plonk for a few GCBs, then so be it. There is no need to link that with one's daughter/son etc, that is so low IMHO.
Hopefully, from this point onwards, there could be constructive discussion on landed movement in 2013 as the thread seem to suggest.
The popular play among investors/developers nowadays seem to be IT. I noticed quite a few property agencies branching into development wings. Some are really aggressive with at least 20 units on hand.
Not too sure as I have not come across any recent numbers on PR approvals for landed.
Ringo33 however, is of the opinion that new citizens will plonk millions of dollars to invest in 'senseless' FH landed investments and profiteer from these 'senseless' investments hence he is lobbying hard for restrictions/curbs on new citizens.
We live in a capitalism society, Rich Foreigner or new SC or whoever can buy landed as they will have the resources to do so. how so? don't ask me , I'm not rich enough.:cool:
Hopefully, from this point onwards, there could be constructive discussion on landed movement in 2013 as the thread seem to suggest.
The popular play among investors/developers nowadays seem to be IT. I noticed quite a few property agencies branching into development wings. Some are really aggressive with at least 20 units on hand.
Agree fully :D
We live in a capitalism society, Rich Foreigner or new SC or whoever can buy landed as they will have the resources to do so. how so? don't ask me , I'm not rich enough.:cool:
Capitalism can be a friend or enemy, if left unchecked it will bring the entire country down to it knees. The recent elections result and the demonstration at hong lin park is a good example of where Singapore is heading and if government doesnt do anything to address the people's concern, PAP will be voter out in the coming few election.
In the past Singapore was one of the most friendly country for such investors, but of recent years, they have made it more difficult for rich foreigners to qualify for PR and making if extremely difficult for PR to buy landed property. This could also be due to worldwide clamp down on money laundering.
So IF the government is to continue bringing in bus load of NC to Singapore, I think it will be prudent to review current policy of landed property.
Capitalism can be a friend or enemy, if left unchecked it will bring the entire country down to it knees. The recent elections result and the demonstration at hong lin park is a good example of where Singapore is heading and if government doesnt do anything to address the people's concern, PAP will be voter out in the coming few election.
In the past Singapore was one of the most friendly country for such investors, but of recent years, they have made it more difficult for rich foreigners to qualify for PR and making if extremely difficult for PR to buy landed property. This could also be due to worldwide clamp down on money laundering.
So IF the government is to continue bringing in bus load of NC to Singapore, I think it will be prudent to review current policy of landed property.
So your reason for lobbying for curbs is based on the asssumption that NC will buy up landed property even though you think that buying landed is a senseless investment.
It has reached beyond the point of using common sense to rationalise with TS. I really question his/her motive of even starting the thread. Not to discuss the movement of landed in 2013, but to "complain".
As many kind souls have pointed out, landed is really free market play. If a new SC has enough moolah to plonk for a few GCBs, then so be it. There is no need to link that with one's daughter/son etc, that is so low IMHO.
I believe there is already a thread talking about price movement of landed property and I have also made a comment recently about how misleading land price index could be/ Perhaps as a landed property investors you could help shed some light.
So I am not sure why do we need to another thread to talk about the same thing? http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=15071&page=10
I am not sure what the other are saying, AFAIK, landed property is not a free market play because only Singaporeans and selective PR can be qualify to buy landed property. How is this equal to free market?
I believe there is already a thread talking about price movement of landed property and I have also made a comment recently about how misleading land price index could be/ Perhaps as a landed property investors you could help shed some light.
So I am not sure why do we need to another thread to talk about the same thing? http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=15071&page=10
I am not sure what the other are saying, AFAIK, landed property is not a free market play because only Singaporeans and selective PR can be qualify to buy landed property. How is this equal to free market?
I think if u are rich enough, there will be ways to buy even if you're not singaporean.:cool:
I think if u are rich enough, there will be ways to buy even if you're not singaporean.:cool:
Wah.. You are very sharp.. The global citizens will know their way around it. Its just our barriers are not high enough.
Wah.. You are very sharp.. The global citizens will know their way around it. Its just our barriers are not high enough.
Lots of money can do wonders:cool:
It is true that many rich new Singapore Citizens from mainland China are buying up landed properties in Singapore. MP Inderjit Singh commented one such case recently in the Parliament. In that case, the new citizen bought 3 landed properties in Kebun Baru.
When native Singapore citizens have to compete with new citizens with tons of cash, then I believe it is not fair to the native citizen. Having said that I do not think this government will do anything about it because they care less to private property owners.
It is true that many rich new Singapore Citizens from mainland China are buying up landed properties in Singapore. MP Inderjit Singh commented one such case recently in the Parliament. In that case, the new citizen bought 3 landed properties in Kebun Baru.
When native Singapore citizens have to compete with new citizens with tons of cash, then I believe it is not fair to the native citizen. Having said that I do not think this government will do anything about it because they care less to private property owners.
Ours is open policy to rich ppl. the more the merrier:cool:
It is true that many rich new Singapore Citizens from mainland China are buying up landed properties in Singapore. MP Inderjit Singh commented one such case recently in the Parliament. In that case, the new citizen bought 3 landed properties in Kebun Baru.
When native Singapore citizens have to compete with new citizens with tons of cash, then I believe it is not fair to the native citizen. Having said that I do not think this government will do anything about it because they care less to private property owners.
Private is private play. anyway not just NC buying local Singapore Citizen made $$ from their PC sales also buying landed.
Ours is open policy to rich ppl. the more the merrier:cool:
Perhaps prices are so overly inflated tat the landed owners holding to the hot potatos needs to depend on rich foreigners to come rescue them.
Jia lat Liao
Perhaps prices are so overly inflated tat the landed owners holding to the hot potatos needs to depend on rich foreigners to come rescue them.
Jia lat Liao
Can foreigners buy landed without approval? In another post, you claim that such approvals have already been tightened.
How did you arrive at the conclusion that landed owners need rich FOREIGNERS to bail them out (assuming they even needed to be bailed out)?
Can foreigners buy landed without approval? In another post, you claim that such approvals have already been tightened.
How did you arrive at the conclusion that landed owners need rich FOREIGNERS to bail them out (assuming they even needed to be bailed out)?
Many landed owners are sitting on gold mine.
They bought at a fraction of the current mkt price.
Need to bail them out ??
Hmmmmmmm.......Don't understand........:cool:
pardon me, me no understand
HDB owners sell home, upgrade to PC
PC owners sell home, upgrade to landed
Landed owners sell home, upgrade to .......?
pardon me, me no understand
HDB owners sell home, upgrade to PC
PC owners sell home, upgrade to landed
Landed owners sell home, upgrade to .......?
To 1mil HDB, haha.:cool:
2 friends sold landed and buy HDB
pardon me, me no understand
HDB owners sell home, upgrade to PC
PC owners sell home, upgrade to landed
Landed owners sell home, upgrade to .......?
Landed is too general. What kind of landed? 2m or 40m?
Landed is too general. What kind of landed? 2m or 40m?
it's the same as what you guys are discussing in this thread - no boundaries. get my point?
it's the same as what you guys are discussing in this thread - no boundaries. get my point?
Thats a nice one. :D
Landed is too general. What kind of landed? 2m or 40m?
got 2m landed now meh??? very hard to find....
I agree it run up for landed is quite ridiculous but I think all kinds of property prices is also too high.
Waiting for the bubble to pop :)
In case someone comes in and say I missed the boat, while I got my landed in 2009 but that is my only property. So I am kind of on the fence. Price go up, I happy, drop I also happy :)
got 2m landed now meh??? very hard to find....
I agree it run up for landed is quite ridiculous but I think all kinds of property prices is also too high.
Waiting for the bubble to pop :)
In case someone comes in and say I missed the boat, while I got my landed in 2009 but that is my only property. So I am kind of on the fence. Price go up, I happy, drop I also happy :)
The price gap right now is ripe for correction. When the big boys exit the market, the rest will follow.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8491119713_d433249926_c.jpg
I am not too sure about price correction for landed property. Let's revisit this issue same date next year.
The price gap right now is ripe for correction. When the big boys exit the market, the rest will follow.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8491119713_d433249926_c.jpg
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