View Full Version : In the event Singapore system collapse who would suffer most?
All this bickering online & offline. I would like to ask. Who would suffer most in event of a singapore system collapse. Hearing all the noise and complains and whining going on. All want a change. Some call for de construct. etc.
If we don't plan with foresight and willing to make hard decisions and we screw up. End up like a Greece with mountain of deficit or become as backward as Vietnam. Who do you thing will suffer most in such situation?
My take will be the 60% of the not so well to do Singaporean. Why I feel so. coz in either situation the more economically mobile can move their assets overseas and continue to survive.
Its the not so economically mobile singaporean that will eventually suffer.
All this bickering online & offline. I would like to ask. Who would suffer most in event of a singapore system collapse. Hearing all the noise and complains and whining going on. All want a change. Some call for de construct. etc.
If we don't plan with foresight and willing to make hard decisions and we screw up. End up like a Greece with mountain of deficit or become as backward as Vietnam. Who do you thing will suffer most in such situation?
My take will be the 60% of the not so well to do Singaporean. Why I feel so. coz in either situation the more economically mobile can move their assets overseas and continue to survive.
Its the not so economically mobile singaporean that will eventually suffer.
in the event the more economically mobile choose to leave, their place here will be replaced by the not so economically mobile. :D
hence will lead to even faster downfall of singapore! :doh:
in the event the more economically mobile choose to leave, their place here will be replaced by the not so economically mobile. :D
All this bickering online & offline. I would like to ask. Who would suffer most in event of a singapore system collapse. Hearing all the noise and complains and whining going on. All want a change. Some call for de construct. etc.
If we don't plan with foresight and willing to make hard decisions and we screw up. End up like a Greece with mountain of deficit or become as backward as Vietnam. Who do you thing will suffer most in such situation?
My take will be the 60% of the not so well to do Singaporean. Why I feel so. coz in either situation the more economically mobile can move their assets overseas and continue to survive.
Its the not so economically mobile singaporean that will eventually suffer.
this kind of thing need to ask in this forum? isnt it obvious that always the poor and the middle class who suffer in any crisis.
more importantly, you can ask your MP.
1) whether you can withdraw your CPF in singapore embassies overseas if SHTF in singapore and you are overseas.
2) who has control of GIC, Temasek, CPF if PAP form a government-in-exile for example.
my thinking is if SHTF in singapore, like invaded or lose election for example, PAP will drop all pretence and will assume direct control of the said funds and it will not be the opposition government nor the president who will have control.
please vote for PAP so the music can go on longer.
hence will lead to even faster downfall of singapore! :doh:
downfall for who? one man's meat is another's poison, hence the french revolution.
this kind of thing need to ask in this forum? isnt it obvious that always the poor and the middle class who suffer in any crisis.
more importantly, you can ask your MP.
1) whether you can withdraw your CPF in singapore embassies overseas if SHTF in singapore and you are overseas.
2) who has control of GIC, Temasek, CPF if PAP form a government-in-exile for example.
my thinking is if SHTF in singapore, like invaded or lose election for example, PAP will drop all pretence and will assume direct control of the said funds and it will not be the opposition government nor the president who will have control.
please vote for PAP so the music can go on longer.
You'd prefer kicking the can down the road to the next generation?
buttercarp
07-02-13, 10:18
I think landlords will suffer most.
I think landlords will suffer most.
heh heh landlords will move assets to other country 1st.
I think landlords will suffer most.
Depends which type of landlords....
After so many CMs you are still seeing many cash rich buyers... These ppl can afford 40% downpayment.. so I think they are quite resistant to economy downturn.
I think the ones who will suffer most are the middle-class who are heavily on loans... Rich ones are resistant and poor ones probably have nothing much to lose in the first place.
Depends which type of landlords....
After so many CMs you are still seeing many cash rich buyers... These ppl can afford 40% downpayment.. so I think they are quite resistant to economy downturn.
I think the ones who will suffer most are the middle-class who are heavily on loans... Rich ones are resistant and poor ones probably have nothing much to lose in the first place.
poor ones will not be land lord to the land lording issue will be irrelevant. but question will be jobs. as well as if external economy is doing well and we are not would also means elevated inflation. Thus can hurt the poor in that aspect. especially the hand to mouth folks.
poor ones will not be land lord to the land lording issue will be irrelevant. but question will be jobs. as well as if external economy is doing well and we are not would also means elevated inflation. Thus can hurt the poor in that aspect. especially the hand to mouth folks.
Yeps.. in economy downturn one of the greatest fear is losing jobs.. the poor ones would be worrying about filling their stomachs, while the middle class who have investments would have to worry both their stomachs and mortgages ..
Allthepies
07-02-13, 11:17
The poor loh, who else. Try to reduce your assets holding in Singapore before 2016 next GE. The ground sentiments point to a strong likelihood that wp will take over the government if they field enough candidates. This is easily done.
buttercarp
07-02-13, 11:24
Depends which type of landlords....
After so many CMs you are still seeing many cash rich buyers... These ppl can afford 40% downpayment.. so I think they are quite resistant to economy downturn.
I think the ones who will suffer most are the middle-class who are heavily on loans... Rich ones are resistant and poor ones probably have nothing much to lose in the first place.
Yes I agree with you about the type of landlords.
Those who can remain resilient without tenants won't suffer, those who depend entirely on rental will suffer alot.
So this CM7 is in a way good to reduce suffering in case of recession.
The poor loh, who else. Try to reduce your assets holding in Singapore before 2016 next GE. The ground sentiments point to a strong likelihood that wp will take over the government if they field enough candidates. This is easily done.
I do not think a strong likelihood. Possible for WP to take down few more GRC and if that happen, 2020 is the year to watch. Stock market will take a big hit first if that happen.
Regulators
07-02-13, 11:35
as if you give a shit about whether Singaporeans will suffer. if you do, you would not be supporting ponzi demography. gdp growth led by population increase who doesn't know, even a monkey knows that. do we pay our leaders millions to come up with a ponzi scheme or a brilliant solution that can drive economy without compromising on people's quality of life? has the govt placed focus on drivers of the economy that is less reliant on labor? being paid millions, I would have expected them to go down that path.
All this bickering online & offline. I would like to ask. Who would suffer most in event of a singapore system collapse. Hearing all the noise and complains and whining going on. All want a change. Some call for de construct. etc.
If we don't plan with foresight and willing to make hard decisions and we screw up. End up like a Greece with mountain of deficit or become as backward as Vietnam. Who do you thing will suffer most in such situation?
My take will be the 60% of the not so well to do Singaporean. Why I feel so. coz in either situation the more economically mobile can move their assets overseas and continue to survive.
Its the not so economically mobile singaporean that will eventually suffer.
as if you give a shit about whether Singaporeans will suffer. if you do, you would not be supporting ponzi demography. gdp growth led by population increase who doesn't know, even a monkey knows that. do we pay our leaders millions to come up with a ponzi scheme or a brilliant solution that can drive economy without compromising on people's quality of life? has the govt placed focus on drivers of the economy that is less reliant on labor? being paid millions, I would have expected them to go down that path.
is there any racial breakdown, religion breakdown of the recent immigrants?
do you see more yellow skin or brown skin than before.
imo, there is no doubt they dont want minority race to become majority race.
as if you give a shit about whether Singaporeans will suffer. if you do, you would not be supporting ponzi demography. gdp growth led by population increase who doesn't know, even a monkey knows that. do we pay our leaders millions to come up with a ponzi scheme or a brilliant solution that can drive economy without compromising on people's quality of life? has the govt placed focus on drivers of the economy that is less reliant on labor? being paid millions, I would have expected them to go down that path.
I think u need a X-files... department. so much hate? maybe u had a unloved childhood. must be..
Regulators
07-02-13, 11:45
I think a lot are from China n India with the former being more. just a guess but immigration figures are sensitive so I don't think they will reveal much.
is there any racial breakdown, religion breakdown of the recent immigrants?
do you see more yellow skin or brown skin than before.
imo, there is no doubt they dont want minority race to become majority race.
The poor loh, who else. Try to reduce your assets holding in Singapore before 2016 next GE. The ground sentiments point to a strong likelihood that wp will take over the government if they field enough candidates. This is easily done.
LTK is not stupid. if i'm not wrong, 2016 he will plan his moves well so that even if there is freak result, they will not control parliament. he will not contest every ward, or maybe he will contest in wards he know he will not win. he knows he cannot do as good a job as PAP. we know too.
princess_morbucks
07-02-13, 12:09
LTK is not stupid. if i'm not wrong, 2016 he will plan his moves well so that even if there is freak result, they will not control parliament. he will not contest every ward, or maybe he will contest in wards he know he will not win. he knows he cannot do as good a job as PAP. we know too.
I agree with you.
He already said this:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1250489/1/.html
Mr Low said WP has limited resources and does not want to give Singaporeans false expectations. "We, the Workers' Party, will play our role entrusted by the people to make sure that the government does its work and where the government has shortcomings. We will point it out and where possible, we will assist wherever we can by giving our opinion. But we are not ready to be the next government or alternative government, and we are clear about this and we do not want to give Singaporeans the false expectation of an alternative government."
Regulators
07-02-13, 12:13
I think you are the one with a pathetic childhood, spreading the notion of fear n suffering to everyone. get a life and accept the fact that the govt has lost its bearings.
I think u need a X-files... department. so much hate? maybe u had a unloved childhood. must be..
I think you are the one with a pathetic childhood, spreading the notion of fear n suffering to everyone. get a life and accept the fact that the govt has lost its bearings.
maybe u lost ur BEARINGs.... too. 2 of them. Cant handle the hard truth?
Regulators
07-02-13, 12:24
I think you like a govt that takes shortcut solutions. the white paper reflects the kind of attitude seen in the young generation, always looking for quick fix solutions.
maybe u lost ur BEARINGs.... too. 2 of them. Cant handle the hard truth?
as if you give a shit about whether Singaporeans will suffer. if you do, you would not be supporting ponzi demography. gdp growth led by population increase who doesn't know, even a monkey knows that. do we pay our leaders millions to come up with a ponzi scheme or a brilliant solution that can drive economy without compromising on people's quality of life? has the govt placed focus on drivers of the economy that is less reliant on labor? being paid millions, I would have expected them to go down that path.
well said.
dun blame him, some well meaning sporeans can be quite myopic.
well said.
dun blame him, some well meaning sporeans can be quite myopic.
well said? LOL. :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
well said? LOL. :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
Take a look at your own reply at post #17. People can disagree, but u shld not make personal attacks the moment u cannot argue on facts and logic. :)
Take a look at your own reply at post #17. People can disagree, but u shld not make personal attacks the moment u cannot argue on facts and logic. :)
It beyond logic n facts when its all blind n deaf. nothing to say will mean any diff.
Regulators
07-02-13, 14:59
sometimes it is not about disagreeing with you, but the things you say just makes no cowsense. below is one good example, assets belonging to landlords are properties, you expect them to move their properties out of the country??? I think you make everybody chio gao peng with your comments. please lah, either brush up your English or pump some grey matter into your brain. :doh:
heh heh landlords will move assets to other country 1st.
sometimes it is not about disagreeing with you, but the things you say just makes no cowsense. below is one good example, assets belonging to landlords are properties, you expect them to move their properties out of the country??? I think you make everybody chio gao peng with your comments. please lah, either brush up your English or pump some grey matter into your brain. :doh:
use ur brian pls. do I need to connect all the dots for u?
Landlords are investors. they can divest an move on. move the funds to UK and invest there etc.
:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
In this contest my money on minority
use ur brian pls. do I need to connect all the dots for u?
Landlords are investors. they can divest an move on. move the funds to UK and invest there etc.
:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
according to your statement, landlords divest the properties and move the funds out.
so the original investor is no consider a landlord.
The new investor who bought over is now considered a landlord right?
so landlord as a class cannot shift property out. property stay where it is, only the landlords change.
Regulators
07-02-13, 15:55
90% of Singaporeans living in hdb flats are landlords. you expect everyone to sell their hdb flats and leave the country? who is the one having no brains? :doh:
use ur brian pls. do I need to connect all the dots for u?
Landlords are investors. they can divest an move on. move the funds to UK and invest there etc.
:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
according to your statement, landlords divest the properties and move the funds out.
so the original investor is no consider a landlord.
The new investor who bought over is now considered a landlord right?
so landlord as a class cannot shift property out. property stay where it is, only the landlords change.
Landlord is a loose term for someone who owns more than one property. It's similar to the term trader who we might know as unemployed individual who play stock once in a while. Or when we call someone tai lo (boss), he is not a real boss per se, it's just a general term
proud owner
07-02-13, 16:58
I agree with you.
He already said this:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1250489/1/.html
Mr Low said WP has limited resources and does not want to give Singaporeans false expectations. "We, the Workers' Party, will play our role entrusted by the people to make sure that the government does its work and where the government has shortcomings. We will point it out and where possible, we will assist wherever we can by giving our opinion. But we are not ready to be the next government or alternative government, and we are clear about this and we do not want to give Singaporeans the false expectation of an alternative government."
as long as he runs his ward well ... he is already doing a good job ...
he can always replicate that success if he wins another ward ...
on the other hand ...PAP tried to suck up to china with that Suzhuo project
failed so badly .... and not talked about it again ...
as long as he runs his ward well ... he is already doing a good job ...
he can always replicate that success if he wins another ward ...
on the other hand ...PAP tried to suck up to china with that Suzhuo project
failed so badly .... and not talked about it again ...
I feel this is not a right comparison . U are comparing some one running a ward n Someone growing singapire economy n dealing with geopolitical scene.
according to your statement, landlords divest the properties and move the funds out.
so the original investor is no consider a landlord.
The new investor who bought over is now considered a landlord right?
so landlord as a class cannot shift property out. property stay where it is, only the landlords change.
Ur definition is a home owner. Home for for stay. Do not derive revenue from it. Ehh don't say rent 1 room how hor.. Different meaning I m referring to property investors.
90% of Singaporeans living in hdb flats are landlords. you expect everyone to sell their hdb flats and leave the country? who is the one having no brains? :doh:
If U cannot tell the different between a home owner that need the property for own stay n investor who derive rent from a property . I have nothing to say . how to teach u? Even Frankenstein is smarter then u.
proud owner
07-02-13, 17:30
I feel this is not a right comparison . U are comparing some one running a ward n Someone growing singapire economy n dealing with geopolitical scene.
remember long time ago ... many pro PAP said :
if singapore govt were to rule JB ... JB would be the prime-st state in malaysia ...
so is WP is given more wards to run .... i am sure they can do just as well as they did in Hougang
have faith in people my man
give people a chance ...
like i said before ... if they were not given the chance at the first interview ... they wont be alot of successful people inthis world
as long as he runs his ward well ... he is already doing a good job ...
he can always replicate that success if he wins another ward ...
on the other hand ...PAP tried to suck up to china with that Suzhuo project
failed so badly .... and not talked about it again ...
Being critical is not a good substitute to giving a good solution. How often that someone can point out your err, but they themselves couldn't do. Like we often forgot that we live in a country with one of the highest standard of living.
Regulators
07-02-13, 18:08
from landlords, now you change to property investor, did pap teach you to be a spin doctor? even if you talk about property investors divesting,who do you think will buy the properties of these divestors? old landlords go, new landlords come in, it happens everyday. properties will never be left vacant if that is what you are hoping to see. what people are trying to educate you is old landlords moving out is squared off against new landlords moving in, so what is the issue here with you?? may I suggest next time before you say something, get your teacher to check what you type first. :doh:
If U cannot tell the different between a home owner that need the property for own stay n investor who derive rent from a property . I have nothing to say . how to teach u? Even Frankenstein is smarter then u.
Regulators
07-02-13, 18:13
before you insult others, check your own comments first. I think your posts are more of a laughing stock than anybody else in this forum.
If U cannot tell the different between a home owner that need the property for own stay n investor who derive rent from a property . I have nothing to say . how to teach u? Even Frankenstein is smarter then u.
from landlords, now you change to property investor, did pap teach you to be a spin doctor? even if you talk about property investors divesting,who do you think will buy the properties of these divestors? old landlords go, new landlords come in, it happens everyday. properties will never be left vacant if that is what you are hoping to see. what people are trying to educate you is old landlords moving out is squared off against new landlords moving in, so what is the issue here with you?? may I suggest next time before you say something, get your teacher to check what you type first. :doh:
give up..!! :banghead: :banghead: a block wood have more grey matter than u.
is ok skip.. I wont bother waste my time to reply anymore.
Regulators
07-02-13, 20:45
you can't get people to understand your jibberish n you turn to insults. you seriously need to brush up on your English for your own good. in another post, you suggested capitalism leading to socialism n I am still having a good laugh till now. keep up the good work in being a comic relief in this forum :D
give up..!! :banghead: :banghead: a block wood have more grey matter than u.
is ok skip.. I wont bother waste my time to reply anymore.
Allthepies
08-02-13, 06:44
LTK is not stupid. if i'm not wrong, 2016 he will plan his moves well so that even if there is freak result, they will not control parliament. he will not contest every ward, or maybe he will contest in wards he know he will not win. he knows he cannot do as good a job as PAP. we know too.
Any credible party leader will want to take over leadership and not just be a back bencher. You think they are saints ah?
If I tell you I buy Toto I only aim for 2nd prize, I'm not interested in the first prize, you believe ah?
Probably if they win through freak result, the noble party will just hand over back to pap. This you also believe ah?
Probably if they win through freak result, the noble party will just hand over back to pap. This you also believe ah?
that's why i wonder if current govt can survive 2016 or not
that's why i wonder if current govt can survive 2016 or not
If they don't survive then get ready for a freak economy. Frankly they are making a tough choices. They could have taken the easy road kick the can 20yrs down. By then all retire Liao. Take their $ go else where. Why take so much back lash for wat?
On the contrary I feel all the opposition is oppose for sake of opposing. Just give the people wat they want regardless of consequence . All in the name for votes.
If they don't survive then get ready for a freak economy. Frankly they are making a tough choices. They could have taken the easy road kick the can 20yrs down. By then all retire Liao. Take their $ go else where. Why take so much back lash for wat?
On the contrary I feel all the opposition is oppose for sake of opposing. Just give the people wat they want regardless of consequence . All in the name for votes.
I thought the opposition would be a ray of hope during the last GE. It is almost 2 years and there is nothing very concrete coming out of them except for making the ruling party more vigilant (which is good). The current number of opposition is good enough. Anything more we may not get anything good out of them and they will upset the delicate balance.
It is not that I pro the ruling party but I would rather stick with status quo and let them improve things gradually, recognising the fact that it will take years to rectify the earlier errors.
I thought the opposition would be a ray of hope during the last GE. It is almost 2 years and there is nothing very concrete coming out of them except for making the ruling party more vigilant (which is good). The current number of opposition is good enough. Anything more we may not get anything good out of them and they will upset the delicate balance.
It is not that I pro the ruling party but I would rather stick with status quo and let them improve things gradually, recognising the fact that it will take years to rectify the earlier errors.
most people think this way, they complain complain but still want pap to stay in power. in the punggol east BE the pple dare dare vote for wp coz it will not tilt the balance. it will be different in ge2016, pple are wary of freak result, i also believe the most wp can get is another 1 or 2 grc (unless pap really screw up big time la). the rise of wp is good for singapore because now we really have a 'shadow cabinet' behind the pap. wp has recruited more n more qualified pple, many of them are professionals. thus we have more pple brainstorming for the good of singapore.
I believe what you all miss out here is accountability. When the ruling party make a major screw-up who is being held accountable? Sadly now, it is always the people.
Look at our once beautiful and wonderful Singapore. Now it is really in a total mess..
What have we improve in the past ten years? Let me see,
1) We have a MRT system that alway break-down..
2) We have a ERP system that does not solve the problem of traffic jams
3) We have a detention centre that even a limp can escape.
4) We have a GIC losing big money during the crisis
5) We have a CPF that we can never withdrawn in our life
6) We have a Expressway that is almost like a carpark nowadays.
7) We have a COE that is more expensive than the cost of the car.
8) We have a HDB that PR can buy but Single Singaporean cannot buy..
..... And the list goes on and on....
I feel we did well as a nation actually in the past ten years...
I believe what you all miss out here is accountability. When the ruling party make a major screw-up who is being held accountable? Sadly now, it is always the people.
Look at our once beautiful and wonderful Singapore. Now it is really in a total mess..
What have we improve in the past ten years? Let me see,
1) We have a MRT system that alway break-down..
2) We have a ERP system that does not solve the problem of traffic jams
3) We have a detention centre that even a limp can escape.
4) We have a GIC losing big money during the crisis
5) We have a CPF that we can never withdrawn in our life
6) We have a Expressway that is almost like a carpark nowadays.
7) We have a COE that is more expensive than the cost of the car.
8) We have a HDB that PR can buy but Single Singaporean cannot buy..
..... And the list goes on and on....
I feel we did well as a nation actually in the past ten years...
so will u also give them credit for things they did right?
Its so easy to critic. just like all the opposition. Critics are easy can anyone come up with a better plan or do it better? without bankrupting the country and kicking the tin down the road?
Talk are so easy. no 1 want to do the real work. all just sit there on the high chair complain n critic.
Wait Long Long
08-02-13, 13:32
If they don't survive then get ready for a freak economy. Frankly they are making a tough choices. They could have taken the easy road kick the can 20yrs down. By then all retire Liao. Take their $ go else where. Why take so much back lash for wat?
On the contrary I feel all the opposition is oppose for sake of opposing. Just give the people wat they want regardless of consequence . All in the name for votes.
Why freak economy? Ony PAP have capable people to run country? I really question if increasing population is the only way to go. Rather we improve productivity and take in lesser foreigners. It's known that Singapore's productivity certainly not numero uno...despite decades of productivity movement
Wait Long Long
08-02-13, 13:33
so will u also give them credit for things they did right?
Its so easy to critic. just like all the opposition. Critics are easy can anyone come up with a better plan or do it better? without bankrupting the country and kicking the tin down the road?
Talk are so easy. no 1 want to do the real work. all just sit there on the high chair complain n critic.
So what are the things they have done right? Care to share?
rymccondo77
08-02-13, 13:43
Yes, Singapore is now having problems that need fixing, but saying that Singapore is in a total mess to me is "gross exaggeration".
Most of us here will have families / loved ones / colleagues / business associates that we will be celebrating CNY with (e.g. celebrate / eat in restaurants, visiting homes and giving / receiving ang pows, etc.)
Some of us here will be looking forward to new homes to live in (by the way congrats to all whose homes are TOP in 2013).
And some of us are eyeing the next property to invest in / or buy for own stay / upgrade to.
Singapore in a total mess - I don't think so. And if we pull together (and get rid of the "Not in my backyard" attitude), Singapore can survive and still thrive.
Regulators
08-02-13, 13:46
you expect ministers who are paid millions a year to have others coming out with a better plan for them? it is like a CEO of a company asking someone to run the company for him. opposition critics so govt can come up with a better plan, not for opposition to do the job of a govt. as usual, talking through your butt :doh: :doh:
so will u also give them credit for things they did right?
Its so easy to critic. just like all the opposition. Critics are easy can anyone come up with a better plan or do it better? without bankrupting the country and kicking the tin down the road?
Talk are so easy. no 1 want to do the real work. all just sit there on the high chair complain n critic.
Why freak economy? Ony PAP have capable people to run country? I really question if increasing population is the only way to go. Rather we improve productivity and take in lesser foreigners. It's known that Singapore's productivity certainly not numero uno...despite decades of productivity movement
really? what is u proposition than complain? Ur kid go carry bricks and lay bricks? or ur kid want to become butcher? ur kid want to go sweep the floor?
without foreigners to do the jobs we dont wat to do ur kids want to to? before u go round running screaming we can have singaporean do the job 1st go look at the mirror and ask ur self are u going to do the job 1st. or want ur kids to do the job?
Oh productivity!! wah BIG word. seem like everyone also use this word. increase. Productivity come at a cost. Equipment , automation or local labour. So dont complain inflation cost not controlled.
All you guys do is complain. come up with a solution. I dont see 1 credible that either contradict itself or want to bankrupt the country or pass the problem to the next generation.
U want CHEAP , dont want to see singaporean do the job ( as long is not u or ur family ?) , want fast, want efficient, want everything bao. DID I miss out CHEAP!???? if not FREE.
Have such deal in which county pls also advice too? tell me ? pls? :banghead: :banghead:
oh did I leave out no 1 want to pay more TAX TOO????? ehh....:doh: :doh: :doh:
you expect ministers who are paid millions a year to have others coming out with a better plan for them? it is like a CEO of a company asking someone to run the company for him. opposition critics so govt can come up with a better plan, not for opposition to do the job of a govt. as usual, talking through your butt :doh: :doh:
wood head. pls.. dont waste my time.
show me a plan. dont talk so much.
Yes, Singapore is now having problems that need fixing, but saying that Singapore is in a total mess to me is "gross exaggeration".
Most of us here will have families / loved ones / colleagues / business associates that we will be celebrating CNY with (e.g. celebrate / eat in restaurants, visiting homes and giving / receiving ang pows, etc.)
Some of us here will be looking forward to new homes to live in (by the way congrats to all whose homes are TOP in 2013).
And some of us are eyeing the next property to invest in / or buy for own stay / upgrade to.
Singapore in a total mess - I don't think so. And if we pull together (and get rid of the "Not in my backyard" attitude), Singapore can survive and still thrive.
Well there are a generation that is brewing that everything is a mess. I guess they have not experience real MESS yet.
They read a few news headlines, read some blogs, all fired up yes!!! MESS!
when the MESS comes they won't even be able to yelp.
Regulators
08-02-13, 13:53
butthead, I am not government show you what plan? you have a fever? :doh: :doh:
wood head. pls.. dont waste my time.
show me a plan. dont talk so much.
like i said before ... if they were not given the chance at the first interview ... they wont be alot of successful people inthis world
don think we can afford the risk. is like if i tell u trust me with yr 1 million, i guarantee will return u with 20% return, will u do it?
So what are the things they have done right? Care to share?
Let me wast some of my time here.
1) We have a MRT system that alway break-down..
Well when u were using the MRT from the 1980s why not complaining? Things get old system need upgrade. so its natural they have to invest more $ to the system. At least the are investing in it now to make it right.
look at BKK? the city got what train system n persistent jam? look at vietnam? No $ to build, Look at malaysia? half bake train system that most of the time dont function well.
2) We have a ERP system that does not solve the problem of traffic jams
Why have it not? It worked initially. Didnt people get put off buying cars? at 100K people think twice before they buy. Which to me it works. ERP have to catcup with times to. If its so lousy why would london take leaf from our system and implement it too?
3) We have a detention centre that even a limp can escape.
How many time that happens? What abt the criminals that never ever escaped? so ? they caught him finally anyway.
4) We have a GIC losing big money during the crisis
When they make $ and pay u CPF interest u never complain? Investment have win hve lost. If GIC all can sure win. they wont be working for singapore.
5) We have a CPF that we can never withdrawn in our life
really? I don't see wat logic this is. all just sweeping statements that is baseless.
6) We have a Expressway that is almost like a carpark nowadays.
Take public transport then.? who ask u drive at those hours. can change the whole island to a F big express way. if everyone want to go to the same place at the same time it will be a jam. have u try BKK, Seoul,NY etc? peak hr all jam. that to me is all city will have. so?
7) We have a COE that is more expensive than the cost of the car.
Well its meant to control its a luxury. got public transport ! take a Fxxing Cab then! complain for wat. no one point a guy at u to buy. With singaporean making more $ all can afford thats why price also rush up.
8) We have a HDB that PR can buy but Single Singaporean cannot buy..
If every single also buy hdb all the KS people rush in no no. of house will be enough. and people delay marriage even further. but looks like poilicy will accommodate as more people get married later or don't get married. Whats the problem single go stay with ur parents then! take care of them! or go buy resale loh. not like is forced to sleep in the street!
let me add and wont bring up history in case smart people here say ah kong time story. no count. so lets look at what we have
1.) the system ensure every kid in singapore are able to enter a education system.
2.) low income tax in the region. Using consumption tax to balance the taxation system. u consume u pay. i.e COE, GST, ABSD etc. u can dont pay the tax if u dont consume. To me this is fairer than 1 blunt 30-40% tax flat.
3.) one of the lowest un employment rate in the region.
4. ) get us out of the post lehman crash with relatively low hit to jobless rates.
5.) ensuring everyone have a fair chance to own a roof via HDB.
6.) nice and beautiful infrastructure that put singapore on the map in Asia/World.
7.) a successful eco system that allow business to flourish and the singaporean to participate in the growth.
8.) one of the safest city in asia. u can walk in the street and not worry u get rape , mug or stabbed. Go walk in JB and u tell me?
and the list goes on...
if all u can focus on is the glass half empty then what can we say. nothing will be good at all . but do you have a better solution that can do better ? So easy to critic everything is MESS.. hah hah.. u have not seen or tried mess yet.
anyway dont have to reply. I wont be wasting more of my time to debate. Coz its a waste of time debating with folks who are full and not hugary sitting on high chair KPKB.
If they don't survive then get ready for a freak economy. Frankly they are making a tough choices. They could have taken the easy road kick the can 20yrs down. By then all retire Liao. Take their $ go else where. Why take so much back lash for wat?
On the contrary I feel all the opposition is oppose for sake of opposing. Just give the people wat they want regardless of consequence . All in the name for votes.
our opposition is the "best" opposition in the world. probably they understand the word opposition too well that they even build into their party vision. OPPOSE OPPOSE OPPOSE....whatever the govt say just oppose :D
butthead, I am not government show you what plan? you have a fever? :doh: :doh:
i dont u have. u have Hay fever?.... complain so much u got a better solution? or just like to whine? i guess so.... all dead wood. jia liao bee
after all debate still drill down to ppl who very buay gum wan minister draw million $ and they draw peanut$. so the whole episode still talk abt minister pay. these ppl should really go :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: for not able to make million$ like minister
Regulators
08-02-13, 14:21
if pap reason things like the way you do, I think they will get booted out in the next election. what a butthead :doh:
Let me wast some of my time here.
1) We have a MRT system that alway break-down..
Well when u were using the MRT from the 1980s why not complaining? Things get old system need upgrade. so its natural they have to invest more $ to the system. At least the are investing in it now to make it right.
look at BKK? the city got what train system n persistent jam? look at vietnam? No $ to build, Look at malaysia? half bake train system that most of the time dont function well.
2) We have a ERP system that does not solve the problem of traffic jams
Why have it not? It worked initially. Didnt people get put off buying cars? at 100K people think twice before they buy. Which to me it works. ERP have to catcup with times to. If its so lousy why would london take leaf from our system and implement it too?
3) We have a detention centre that even a limp can escape.
How many time that happens? What abt the criminals that never ever escaped? so ? they caught him finally anyway.
4) We have a GIC losing big money during the crisis
When they make $ and pay u CPF interest u never complain? Investment have win hve lost. If GIC all can sure win. they wont be working for singapore.
5) We have a CPF that we can never withdrawn in our life
really? I don't see wat logic this is. all just sweeping statements that is baseless.
6) We have a Expressway that is almost like a carpark nowadays.
Take public transport then.? who ask u drive at those hours. can change the whole island to a F big express way. if everyone want to go to the same place at the same time it will be a jam. have u try BKK, Seoul,NY etc? peak hr all jam. that to me is all city will have. so?
7) We have a COE that is more expensive than the cost of the car.
Well its meant to control its a luxury. got public transport ! take a Fxxing Cab then! complain for wat. no one point a guy at u to buy. With singaporean making more $ all can afford thats why price also rush up.
8) We have a HDB that PR can buy but Single Singaporean cannot buy..
If every single also buy hdb all the KS people rush in no no. of house will be enough. and people delay marriage even further. but looks like poilicy will accommodate as more people get married later or don't get married. Whats the problem single go stay with ur parents then! take care of them! or go buy resale loh. not like is forced to sleep in the street!
let me add and wont bring up history in case smart people here say ah kong time story. no count. so lets look at what we have
1.) the system ensure every kid in singapore are able to enter a education system.
2.) low income tax in the region. Using consumption tax to balance the taxation system. u consume u pay. i.e COE, GST, ABSD etc. u can dont pay the tax if u dont consume. To me this is fairer than 1 blunt 30-40% tax flat.
3.) one of the lowest un employment rate in the region.
4. ) get us out of the post lehman crash with relatively low hit to jobless rates.
5.) ensuring everyone have a fair chance to own a roof via HDB.
6.) nice and beautiful infrastructure that put singapore on the map in Asia/World.
7.) a successful eco system that allow business to flourish and the singaporean to participate in the growth.
8.) one of the safest city in asia. u can walk in the street and not worry u get rape , mug or stabbed. Go walk in JB and u tell me?
and the list goes on...
if all u can focus on is the glass half empty then what can we say. nothing will be good at all . but do you have a better solution that can do better ? So easy to critic everything is MESS.. hah hah.. u have not seen or tried mess yet.
anyway dont have to reply. I wont be wasting more of my time to debate. Coz its a waste of time debating with folks who are full and not hugary sitting on high chair KPKB.
if pap reason things like the way you do, I think they will get booted out in the next election. what a butthead :doh:
if the whole country people are like you. I think no ruling party can save Singapore from its downfall. All dead wood that keep whining.
you expect ministers who are paid millions a year to have others coming out with a better plan for them? it is like a CEO of a company asking someone to run the company for him. opposition critics so govt can come up with a better plan, not for opposition to do the job of a govt. as usual, talking through your butt :doh: :doh:
to be fair many people are getting more $$... i can think of 2 persons in my company and I dont think their jobs are as stressful...
beside nowadays 1 mio in SG can't really get you very far...
my circle of friends especially contractors, businessmen are easily making a few hundred thousand each year and they are enjoying life, almost every other day in the golf course....
dont't get mistaken, 1 mio is a lot lot to me... i am sure it is to you too.. but the no of people getting more than 1mio a year are many many..
Regulators
08-02-13, 14:32
since you are allergic to change and like to worship just one one party and one leader, i suggest you take up north korean citizenship. You can put the statue of kim jong il in your living room and bedroom and worship it everyday till you enter the coffin. :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
if the whole country people are like you. I think no ruling party can save Singapore from its downfall. All dead wood that keep whining.
since you are allergic to change and like to worship just one one party and one leader, i suggest you take up north korean citizenship. You can put the statue of kim jong il in your living room and bedroom and worship it everyday till you enter the coffin. :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
I think suit you better. Coz want everything free and state provided . want no cars in the road , want cheap housing etc. . U even get cloths with 1 color(green) free!. Food stamps!!!! free food ! !
I already mention in earlier post u should go N.Korea. be original.! dont follow opposition just copy idea.
That place suit dead wood like you. u can also have tree bark for breakfast.!
Regulators
08-02-13, 14:44
i am against dictatorship, but you like dictatorship n autocratic rule so you should be there instead. if you lick kim jong un's gonads hard enough, i think he may give you a post in his govt. Just don't forget to worship the statue everyday :doh: :D
I think suit you better. Coz want everything free and state provided . want no cars in the road , want cheap housing etc. . U even get cloths with 1 color(green) free!. Food stamps!!!! free food ! !
I already mention in earlier post u should go N.Korea. be original.! dont follow opposition just copy idea.
That place suit dead wood like you. u can also have tree bark for breakfast.!
if the whole country people are like you. I think no ruling party can save Singapore from its downfall. All dead wood that keep whining.
This is why you should follow what some in this thread are claiming to do or have done - move their assets elsewhere and plan for exit out of Spore. I urge you to follow them as they like you feel that Spore is heading for a downfall as a result of rising opposition voices. :)
Regulators
08-02-13, 15:18
below is minority's famous piece of jibberish in the ABSD thread, "capitalism leading to socialism". I am still having a good laugh till now. Since he believes the eventual end of capitalism is socialism, then he should be moving to a communist country. Kim jong un will welcome him with open arms :D
anyway u dont collect $$ how u find a socialist needs? need to be capitalist 1st.
below is minority's famous piece of jibberish in the ABSD thread, "capitalism leading to socialism". I am still having a good laugh till now. Since he believes the eventual end of capitalism is socialism, then he should be moving to a communist country. Kim jong un will welcome him with open arms :D
So? Wood head?
I recall prior to the return of Hong Kong to China in 1997, many rich and middle class Hong Kongers sold their HK assets and set up homes in Canada, Australia and even Singapore. Many of these people who migrated had long returned to Hong Kong for the better.
Mr Lee Kuan Yew then in 1997 had advised the rich Hong Kongers to stay put to negotiate and work with the new legislatior for the greater good of Hong Kong. However, the rich and middle class chose to leave. The rest is history.
Here in Singapore, we are developing our own democracy. Given time, our very own democracy will evolute. We are in the process of transition. If things evolute as it should, we should be witnessing more capable people joining the opposition with the dilution of power of the ruling party. Whether a two-party system is good for Singapore or not is debatable.
The ruling party thinks that we are too small a country with limited talent for a two-party system to work well. The opposition party (parties) rightly think that given time and equal playing field, they are capable of attracting good and talent people to run the country. This is where we are now.
As a Singaporean, I would like to see progress in our journey towards greater democracy. It would be a sad day if one day our rich and middle class citizens choose to migrate (just like the rich Hong Kongers did in 1997) to other countries when face with adversity. For Capitalism system to work, the rich and the middle class must stay put to help whoever in power for the greater good of Singapore. This is the spirit of democracry and the spirit we look for in every Singaporeans.
Regulators
08-02-13, 22:14
so it shows you are a rubbish sprouting butthead :doh: :tongue3:
So? Wood head?
so it shows you are a rubbish sprouting butthead :doh: :tongue3:
yes thats the only things dead wood can understand.
I recall prior to the return of Hong Kong to China in 1997, many rich and middle class Hong Kongers sold their HK assets and set up homes in Canada, Australia and even Singapore. Many of these people who migrated had long returned to Hong Kong for the better.
Mr Lee Kuan Yew then in 1997 had advised the rich Hong Kongers to stay put to negotiate and work with the new legislatior for the greater good of Hong Kong. However, the rich and middle class chose to leave. The rest is history.
Here in Singapore, we are developing our own democracy. Given time, our very own democracy will evolute. We are in the process of transition. If things evolute as it should, we should be witnessing more capable people joining the opposition with the dilution of power of the ruling party. Whether a two-party system is good for Singapore or not is debatable.
The ruling party thinks that we are too small a country with limited talent for a two-party system to work well. The opposition party (parties) rightly think that given time and equal playing field, they are capable of attracting good and talent people to run the country. This is where we are now.
As a Singaporean, I would like to see progress in our journey towards greater democracy. It would be a sad day if one day our rich and middle class citizens choose to migrate (just like the rich Hong Kongers did in 1997) to other countries when face with adversity. For Capitalism system to work, the rich and the middle class must stay put to help whoever in power for the greater good of Singapore. This is the spirit of democracry and the spirit we look for in every Singaporeans.
doesn't matter ...
we are losing more green land for shopping mall, hdb etc.. really losing hope in singapore..
money cannot bring back the green environment i want..
:beats-me-man:
doesn't matter ...
we are losing more green land for shopping mall, hdb etc.. really losing hope in singapore..
money cannot bring back the green environment i want..
:beats-me-man:
The entire economic model is flawed and not sustainable as it destroys the environment to create consumption and GDP growth. Singapore is the best illustration of the limitation of the environment on economic growth and social and political stabilities. We are almost off the cliff now - only land reclamation can save us for the next few decades, but it will destroy the coast and disrupt marine life. We may not be able to reclaim land forever.
doesn't matter ...
we are losing more green land for shopping mall, hdb etc.. really losing hope in singapore..
money cannot bring back the green environment i want..
:beats-me-man:
why not look at the broad picture.
think of singapore as new york
jb as florida
bangkok as sin city - lv
cebu as miami beach
bali as hawaii
sea is like a usa.
why so pessimistic? u control your feelings. find solutions instead of complaining. i don't understand. it is so easy to complain. at this rate of pessimism, looks like u will be stuck for a while. :doh:
The entire economic model is flawed and not sustainable as it destroys the environment to create consumption and GDP growth. Singapore is the best illustration of the limitation of the environment on economic growth and social and political stabilities. We are almost off the cliff now - only land reclamation can save us for the next few decades, but it will destroy the coast and disrupt marine life. We may not be able to reclaim land forever.
don't be so pessimistic. learn to enjoy life. look at the great security we have. look at how we can go out in the nite without worrying. see how many have warned u of jb, but none have done that about Singapore - security? look at the healthcare. why do indonesians come Singapore for health care treatment. see how many no so well off citizens can have many kids and still be happy? we control our own feelings. don't let it get you down. there are more examples which I will not elaborate. you have a choice. stop blaming and take charge. you have a choice !
don't be so pessimistic. learn to enjoy life. look at the great security we have. look at how we can go out in the nite without worrying. see how many have warned u of jb, but none have done that about Singapore - security? look at the healthcare. why do indonesians come Singapore for health care treatment. see how many no so well off citizens can have many kids and still be happy? we control our own feelings. don't let it get you down. there are more examples which I will not elaborate. you have a choice. stop blaming and take charge. you have a choice !
I share Roly's concern that Singapore's environment is degrading due to Singapore's obsession with GDP growth.
I also have the concern that JB is now growing at the expense of its environment. The coastal areas are now filled up for waterfront developments. Interior land is cleared for housing and factories.
Singapore's easy growth in 1970s and 1980s were partly due to cheap land and labour. As land become more scarce, costs went up and we are where we are today.
JB is undergoing a similar phase as Singapore in 1970s-1980s. However some Tamans property prices are rocketing due to localised scarcity of land. This phenomena should spread to other parts of JB closer to Singapore in few years time, which should drive up the prices further. The reason why I'm in JB is to catch this early phase of cheap rapid growth.
Cheers.
Just to add, I agree with TS (minority) comment that the lower income will be suffering more, even without the collapse of Singapore's system (I doubt it will ever collapse).
People with means will always be able to find opportunities to exploit the situation. The more cloudy the situation, the greater the chances of opportunities if you can see them.
If everyone thinks like you, the country would be doomed. Fortunately you are a minority. A tiny tiny inconsequential minority. Let's keep it that way - for the sake of our children and our children's children.
If they don't survive then get ready for a freak economy. Frankly they are making a tough choices. They could have taken the easy road kick the can 20yrs down. By then all retire Liao. Take their $ go else where. Why take so much back lash for wat?
On the contrary I feel all the opposition is oppose for sake of opposing. Just give the people wat they want regardless of consequence . All in the name for votes.
why not look at the broad picture.
think of singapore as new york
think singapore like hongkong, Tokyo,.... think money...
wake up, think money again...
that's all is a singaporean's life about ...for future
think singapore like hongkong, Tokyo,.... think money...
wake up, think money again...
that's all is a singaporean's life about ...for future
you have a choice. u can choose to live a simple life or an extravagant life. you can also choose to migrate or work overseas. like many of our foreigner friends. but pray, when u go overseas to work or retire, the citizens in the country do not treat you negatively. i see that there will be many pent up frustration in jb from the johor people. they are already frustrated that Singaporeans coming over and buying groceries and causing inflation in their country. now the frustration is Singaporeans buying up their houses. really a satire.
.....
Mr Lee Kuan Yew then in 1997 had advised the rich Hong Kongers to stay put to negotiate and work with the new legislatior for the greater good of Hong Kong. However, the rich and middle class chose to leave. The rest is history.
.....
the advise by LKY is an evil one.
if he turns out wrong, the elites/rich would be caught by the PRC. HK would not be a competitor to Singapore anymore, without the elites/rich leading HK.
if he turns out right, he can always say "i told you so".
Many who fled Shanghai to HK are still alive and memories should still be fresh. So is it strange when PRC takeover HK, they would go elsewhere.
the advise by LKY is an evil one.
if he turns out wrong, the elites/rich would be caught by the PRC. HK would not be a competitor to Singapore anymore, without the elites/rich leading HK.
if he turns out right, he can always say "i told you so".
Many who fled Shanghai to HK are still alive and memories should still be fresh. So is it strange when PRC takeover HK, they would go elsewhere.
With due respect to Hong Kongers and the Chinese community at large, the fact that the rich Hong Kongers chose to leave HK at that particular time had got to do with the 'selfishness' in nature of the Chinese community at large. This thinking was echoed by LKY himself.
In retrospect, Chinese are more self-centred if we look at the history of China and the Chinese. We care more about ourselves than our country when things start to fall apart. Perhaps, it was Capitalism itself that breeds such value. It is debatable and I doubt we could come to any conclusion.
Wll the Chinese Singaporeans behave the same way when we reach our crossroad someday????
Regulators
09-02-13, 10:51
why is Singapore so obssessed with exponential growth? many Singaporeans are more interested in moderate growth and better quality of life as the population ages. foreigners do not share in that same ideal as core Singaporeans, they are only interested in reaping as much from Singapore and bringing the money back to their country eventually. I know of so many prs who would rather send their kids back to India or China upon reaching national service age than to serve our country that has provided them with education n a job. these foreigners will never stay to fight for the country when things go wrong, they will flee back to whichever place they originally come from. look at li jia wei, how much good have we given her but yet do you think she really regards Singapore as home? it will just be a matter of time all these bought athletes go back to their country of origin. the govt thinks that they can integrate these foreigners into our society n make this place a home for them, but majority will never see our tiny dot as a complete home. when things go wrong, they will be the first to flee.
phantom_opera
09-02-13, 11:10
Without good growth it is the end for CCR properties
With due respect to Hong Kongers and the Chinese community at large, the fact that the rich Hong Kongers chose to leave HK at that particular time had got to do with the 'selfishness' in nature of the Chinese community at large. This thinking was echoed by LKY himself.
In retrospect, Chinese are more self-centred if we look at the history of China and the Chinese. We care more about ourselves than our country when things start to fall apart. Perhaps, it was Capitalism itself that breeds such value. It is debatable and I doubt we could come to any conclusion.
Wll the Chinese Singaporeans behave the same way when we reach our crossroad someday????
because chinese concept of after death is suffering in hell follow by reincarnation. the only way to enjoy is now ie when people are still living.
different from another unnamed religion where after matyrdom, can enjoy 72 virgins in heaven, no reincarnation. so stay in heaven is permanent.
If everyone thinks like you, the country would be doomed. Fortunately you are a minority. A tiny tiny inconsequential minority. Let's keep it that way - for the sake of our children and our children's children.
Totally agreed, luckily he's just a minority whom can't speak for the majority. Hence just treat his words as bullshxt :D
Majority will know what to do in 2016!
If everyone thinks like you, the country would be doomed. Fortunately you are a minority. A tiny tiny inconsequential minority. Let's keep it that way - for the sake of our children and our children's children.
Yes if so many of you like to Doomed. I guess its indeed a doom scenario.
so many ignorant people here. Foreigners render service to Singapore here. How many want thier kids here to sweep the floor, become shampoo girl, go be come hawker or stall helper , or become butcher or go sell fish , or work in car wash or construction worker laying bricks ?? all aspire their children become lawyer, doctor, engineers etc. Well so simple right as long the one do dirty job is not my kid great. but I want to see singaporean only.. :banghead: :banghead:
but oh.. yeah here all sound high n mighty.. quality of life... oh oh oh.. don't want economy to grow.. blah blah when no job all kao pay kao bu.
with the master plan 2030 a forecast to build the infra. all kao pa. its a ah kong grantee 20 yrs of job creation across all sectors.
INFLATION? cause by foreigners??? all ar blind never read news is it? or cannot read? pls go GOOGLE QE!.. if our economy slow inflation will be worst. and the best is no jobs... * CLAP * * CLAP* then.
what a bunch of whinners .....
think singapore like hongkong, Tokyo,.... think money...
wake up, think money again...
that's all is a singaporean's life about ...for future
That is u. not Singaporean. if u choose to think money then dont blame the country. send u to africa u will aslo wake up think money.
So citizens will not flee when shit hits home? Frankly speaking, it is those who own properties here (the more the more likelihood) that will probably not flee. May be we should encourage singaporeans to buy properties here rather than cooling measures to discourage them to buy? :beats-me-man:
why is Singapore so obssessed with exponential growth? many Singaporeans are more interested in moderate growth and better quality of life as the population ages. foreigners do not share in that same ideal as core Singaporeans, they are only interested in reaping as much from Singapore and bringing the money back to their country eventually. I know of so many prs who would rather send their kids back to India or China upon reaching national service age than to serve our country that has provided them with education n a job. these foreigners will never stay to fight for the country when things go wrong, they will flee back to whichever place they originally come from. look at li jia wei, how much good have we given her but yet do you think she really regards Singapore as home? it will just be a matter of time all these bought athletes go back to their country of origin. the govt thinks that they can integrate these foreigners into our society n make this place a home for them, but majority will never see our tiny dot as a complete home. when things go wrong, they will be the first to flee.
why is Singapore so obssessed with exponential growth? many Singaporeans are more interested in moderate growth and better quality of life as the population ages. foreigners do not share in that same ideal as core Singaporeans, they are only interested in reaping as much from Singapore and bringing the money back to their country eventually. I know of so many prs who would rather send their kids back to India or China upon reaching national service age than to serve our country that has provided them with education n a job. these foreigners will never stay to fight for the country when things go wrong, they will flee back to whichever place they originally come from. look at li jia wei, how much good have we given her but yet do you think she really regards Singapore as home? it will just be a matter of time all these bought athletes go back to their country of origin. the govt thinks that they can integrate these foreigners into our society n make this place a home for them, but majority will never see our tiny dot as a complete home. when things go wrong, they will be the first to flee.
Wood head is Wood head. U mean they come here make $ we dont gain from them when they are here? its a trade. they render service they get paid.
u mean when u are on overseas assignment u go there do nothing and get paid? Wat a simple minded wood head.
The entire economic model is flawed and not sustainable as it destroys the environment to create consumption and GDP growth. Singapore is the best illustration of the limitation of the environment on economic growth and social and political stabilities. We are almost off the cliff now - only land reclamation can save us for the next few decades, but it will destroy the coast and disrupt marine life. We may not be able to reclaim land forever.
so u want to go back live in kampong. fetch water from the well and light candles for the night.? and when day come go toil in the farm plant cabbage? I guess that's more sustainable ?
When ur children grow up they can go become buffalo boy. or maybe go become a carpenter . I think that's quite sustainable too.
but the world outside are moving. but its ok I guess its sustainable right?
Coz once development come there are never turning back. unless u want to go N.Korea too coz sounds like N.korea is where development are a standstill and sustainable ?
Regulators
10-02-13, 18:22
butthead, if you don't know what I am writing about, don't comment, otherwise you make yourself more like a clown :doh:
Wood head is Wood head. U mean they come here make $ we dont gain from them when they are here? its a trade. they render service they get paid.
u mean when u are on overseas assignment u go there do nothing and get paid? Wat a simple minded wood head.
so u want to go back live in kampong. fetch water from the well and light candles for the night.? and when day come go toil in the farm plant cabbage? I guess that's more sustainable ?
When ur children grow up they can go become buffalo boy. or maybe go become a carpenter . I think that's quite sustainable too.
but the world outside are moving. but its ok I guess its sustainable right?
Coz once development come there are never turning back. unless u want to go N.Korea too coz sounds like N.korea is where development are a standstill and sustainable ?
It is very difficult to have a sustainable environment for modern living, because human being dominates all other species (except some virus etc). We can only try to slow down the destruction. The GDP model is flawed.
Allthepies
10-02-13, 18:41
Totally agreed, luckily he's just a minority whom can't speak for the majority. Hence just treat his words as bullshxt :D
Majority will know what to do in 2016!
The minority calling themselves the majority :doh:
40% of the population is less than 60% right? Simple maths.
Just that you all are more vocal and loud. :D :D
butthead, if you don't know what I am writing about, don't comment, otherwise you make yourself more like a clown :doh:
Wood head needs help knocking some senses into that thick skull of urs?
It is very difficult to have a sustainable environment for modern living, because human being dominates all other species (except some virus etc). We can only try to slow down the destruction. The GDP model is flawed.
Not much choice right? its either live or die. At least we try to be more env friendly. like u say slow it down. only unless some huge asteroid come wipe all the population from earth then that might change the course.
Regulators
10-02-13, 23:00
butthead, think you are talking about yourself. think kim jong un would love to hear your speech on capitalism transforming to socialism :tongue3: :tongue3:
so u want to go back live in kampong. fetch water from the well and light candles for the night.? and when day come go toil in the farm plant cabbage? I guess that's more sustainable ?
When ur children grow up they can go become buffalo boy. or maybe go become a carpenter . I think that's quite sustainable too.
but the world outside are moving. but its ok I guess its sustainable right?
Coz once development come there are never turning back. unless u want to go N.Korea too coz sounds like N.korea is where development are a standstill and sustainable ?
butthead, think you are talking about yourself. think kim jong un would love to hear your speech on capitalism transforming to socialism :tongue3: :tongue3:
Kim will WELCOME U. !!! :doh: :doh: :doh:
in the event the more economically mobile choose to leave, their place here will be replaced by the not so economically mobile. :D
I agree, 30 years later, Singapore will be successful again and the children of the less economically mobile will prosper and still be 1st class citizen in their own country.
Meanwhile, the children of the more economically mobile will become 3rd class citizens in angmo countries.
Karma! :scared-4:
Singapore is built on the basis of a democratic system. The uniqueness of a democratic system is that the system 'will not fail' even if a 'weak government' is in power because democracry will ensure that the best political power to run the country.
Even if there is a feak result and the WP come into power; democracry would ensure that if the WP cannot deliver, it would be casted out through reelection or National Referendum.
A good democratic system will survive the time.
Since Singapore adopted the democratic system, we should allow the system to work. History has shown that a good democratic system would survive the most trying times.
Allthepies
11-02-13, 10:27
I agree, 30 years later, Singapore will be successful again and the children of the less economically mobile will prosper and still be 1st class citizen in their own country.
Meanwhile, the children of the more economically mobile will become 3rd class citizens in angmo countries.
Karma! :scared-4:
It is a very big question mark for a country without natural resources,a very very small land mass, and a 2nd tier city. Think about the significance of the above statement. don't be too emotional, look at the facts.
Allthepies
11-02-13, 10:35
Singapore is built on the basis of a democratic system. The uniqueness of a democratic system is that the system 'will not fail' even if a 'weak government' is in power because democracry will ensure that the best political power to run the country.
Even if there is a feak result and the WP come into power; democracry would ensure that if the WP cannot deliver, it would be casted out through reelection or National Referendum.
A good democratic system will survive the time.
Since Singapore adopted the democratic system, we should allow the system to work. History has shown that a good democratic system would survive the most trying times.
Once bitten twice shy. I referring to foreign investment in our country. Most situation don't have 2nd chance.
It is a very big question mark for a country without natural resources,a very very small land mass, and a 2nd tier city. Think about the significance of the above statement. don't be too emotional, look at the facts.
does switzerland or luxembourg have natural resources?
look wider around the world and always exercise your critical thinking and question what those in power will wish you believe.
Once bitten twice shy. I referring to foreign investment in our country. Most situation don't have 2nd chance.
Singapore is not likely to experience drastic change politically with good democratic system in place. Every crisis lies opportunity. Why are so many investors going to Myanmar despite the weak government? Business and investments goes where there is opportunity for higher returns and political stability. If we achieve demorcary like what the US did, can a change in government causes instability? This is what a good democratic system is all about.
.....
Since Singapore adopted the democratic system, we should allow the system to work. History has shown that a good democratic system would survive the most trying times.
just to point, singapore is a republic, see the name "republic of singapore".
Regulators
11-02-13, 15:42
those in power will always try to make people think they are indispensible and paint a picture of economic chaos when they are no longer around. Only the tiny minded will buy into this crap. In reality, without the MIW, things will still be status quo.
does switzerland or luxembourg have natural resources?
look wider around the world and always exercise your critical thinking and question what those in power will wish you believe.
those in power will always try to make people think they are indispensible and paint a picture of economic chaos when they are no longer around. Only the tiny minded will buy into this crap. In reality, without the MIW, things will still be status quo.
if a boss still needs to be around in the office looking after things, means he is not a good boss. a good boss is one whose company can still go on operating without him.
http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?126013-Perm-Sec-who-went-to-France-to-learn-cooking-retires-as-millionaire-at-57
"Mr Tan, a top civil servant who earned $1.54M a year, wrote in the article, “Taking five weeks leave from work is not as difficult as one thinks. Most times when you are at the top, you think you are indispensable. But if you are a good leader who has built up a good team, it is possible.”
just to point, singapore is a republic, see the name "republic of singapore".
A republic and a democracy are identical in every aspect except one. In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group.
Regulators
11-02-13, 18:38
Exactly, the system will continue to function with or without the people at the top. MRT, buses and cars will still be travelling around even as per normal even if the lui tuck yew doesnt report to office for one year, not to mention 5 weeks. people will still continue to pay taxes even if the minister of finance go on a 1 years vacation.
if a boss still needs to be around in the office looking after things, means he is not a good boss. a good boss is one whose company can still go on operating without him.
http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?126013-Perm-Sec-who-went-to-France-to-learn-cooking-retires-as-millionaire-at-57
"Mr Tan, a top civil servant who earned $1.54M a year, wrote in the article, “Taking five weeks leave from work is not as difficult as one thinks. Most times when you are at the top, you think you are indispensable. But if you are a good leader who has built up a good team, it is possible.”
A republic and a democracy are identical in every aspect except one. In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group.
Then.... what is a democratic republic?
does switzerland or luxembourg have natural resources?
look wider around the world and always exercise your critical thinking and question what those in power will wish you believe.
Are Switzerland and Luxembourg in similar geopolitical circumstances?
Are they fair comparisons?
Are Switzerland and Luxembourg in similar geopolitical circumstances?
Are they fair comparisons?
Why not? or would u only want to compare with those worse off than spore? :)
Why not? or would u only want to compare with those worse off than spore? :)
It is not the matter of better off or worse off...
Geopolitical circumstances.
Of course, no two countries are the same.
So you think Switzerland and Luxembourgis very similar to Singapore?....hmmmm
does switzerland or luxembourg have natural resources?
look wider around the world and always exercise your critical thinking and question what those in power will wish you believe.
Anyway before we start mouth off abt Switzerland. They are also having the same problem as us. and their solution? immigration too!
And similar like the white paper proposed. target immigrants we want are high skills folks. Which is also what the swiss are also hoping to do.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/archive/Migration_drives_population_increase.html?cid=7363400
"small Switzerland – current population 7.7 million – could see the number of its inhabitants rise to 8.35 million by 2030, according to the latest figures."
"Immigrants will make up the bulk of the population increase, believes the Federal Statistics Office, which released the information. "We expect there to be more arrivals than departures," the federal office's Raymond Kohli told swissinfo."
"Nevertheless, at 1.48 children per woman, the rate is still insufficient to maintain the population at its current level. For this a rate of 2.1 would be needed."
"By 2050, however, the population will drop again to 8.33 million. Life expectancy is growing and the high numbers of baby boomers – born between 1945-1965 – will be dying out.
"The number of older people is going to rise but the number of younger people is going to stay the same or even get smaller, so that means we'll have an ageing population with a higher proportion of older people," Kohli said."
New migrants are likely to head for the cities. This differs from the past, when Switzerland opened its doors to lower skilled, more rural people from countries like Spain and Bosnia-Herzegovina.
"These new, more highly skilled migrants, people from Germany, the United States or even from Asia, are already urban and used to being in urban contexts," explained Schuler.""
It is not the matter of better off or worse off...
Geopolitical circumstances.
Of course, no two countries are the same.
So you think Switzerland and Luxembourgis very similar to Singapore?....hmmmm
spore has always try to model after switzerland.
The only countries I know that name themselves "democratic republic" are run by dictators or communists, the real democracies name themselves republic. Singapore is suppose to be a demcracy, even our national pledge says so.
Remember "Swiss standard of living" ?, even PAP MP Inderjit Singh mentioned it recently in his speech on the population white paper. Seems fair to compare Singapore with Switzerland, PAP has been doing that for many years especially during elections.
if a boss still needs to be around in the office looking after things, means he is not a good boss. a good boss is one whose company can still go on operating without him.
http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?126013-Perm-Sec-who-went-to-France-to-learn-cooking-retires-as-millionaire-at-57
"Mr Tan, a top civil servant who earned $1.54M a year, wrote in the article, “Taking five weeks leave from work is not as difficult as one thinks. Most times when you are at the top, you think you are indispensable. But if you are a good leader who has built up a good team, it is possible.”
Sure.. no boss for a while things will works. boss go on 6mth holiday come back the company will be in chaos. U need a clear vision from the top which is the boss job. the middle management will work out a strategy base on this vision. And the working level focus on execution of this strategy.
A company without a boss is equal to a company without Vision. Sure u can leave it to ur mid mgmt.. but they all fight coz they have factions. in the end there are no strategy if not a mess 1. Then how to execute?
Exactly, the system will continue to function with or without the people at the top. MRT, buses and cars will still be travelling around even as per normal even if the lui tuck yew doesnt report to office for one year, not to mention 5 weeks. people will still continue to pay taxes even if the minister of finance go on a 1 years vacation.
U guys are taking this quote out of context. this guy is going on holiday. any big decisions his mgr will still call him. what u guys are saying is a total vacancy of the post. which means no lead.
When that happens things will start to fall apart. might not be immideate. but surely will slowly fall apart.
Speech by Mr Inderjit Singh,
MP for Ang Mo Kio GRC
On the White Paper on Population
Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to join the debate on the White Paper on Population.
While the report has some compelling arguments for the 6.9m population figure projected, we all know it is based mainly on economic considerations. Had we focused on things like building a cohesive nation with a strong national identity, the outcome would likely be very different.
I feel the time has come for us to find a better balance between economic growth and social cohesion and yes there will have to be tradeoffs of economic growth but I would rather trade some of these for a cohesive, united nation where people feel taken care of at home and are confident of their future. I am not saying we go for low or no growth. Instead I am willing to adjust my growth expectations for a more comfortable life for all Singaporeans. I am confident we will still be able to pursue respectable economic growth when companies and Singaporeans are faced with a situation of tightened labour availability by focusing on improving ourselves through productivity and higher value capabilities. Finland and other small nations have done, we can do it too.
Our past decade of rapid population growth has already created too many problems which need to be solved first before we take the next step. I call on the government to take a breather for five years, solve all the problems created by the past policies of rapid economic and population growth. We can safely say that we have failed to achieve the goal set by the then Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong, of a Swiss standard of living for most Singaporeans, except for the higher income Singaporeans including foreigners who just recently decided to make Singapore their home. So I call for a breather in this quest of growing the population and focus on improving the lives of Singaporeans and achieve that promised Swiss Standard of living for most Singaporeans first before we plan our next growth trajectory.
Taking Care of the Singaporean Core
I have a big issue with the number of PRs and new citizens we are planning to add to our population. I don’t see the necessity to be as aggressive when the key consideration of the population growth is the economy. We have already added too many new citizens and PRs and need time for integration and social cohesion to happen. Looking at history, our population grew from around 2.4m in 1980 to 3m in 1990 and then to 4m in 2000, reaching 5.3m last year. Just looking at the resident population alone, we grew the numbers from 2.3m in 1980 to 2.7m in 1990, 3.3m in the year 2000 and then to 3.8m last year. So in the last decade we added more than 1m to the resident population, and the in last 25 years, which is close to 1 generation of Singaporeans, we have added another close to 50% more to our resident population. I believe this must be the fastest rate of population growth in the world and I feel this is just too much for us to comfortably go back and build a national identity and social cohesion which was progressing very well till the 1990s. Adding another 500,000 to 800,000 more PRs and citizens as proposed by the white paper will be disastrous and add to our already difficult infrastructure and social problems.
If it is economic growth we want then let’s just adopt the Dubai model of a transient workforce which will give us a lot more flexibility to manage numbers in the longer term. On PRs, today we already have too many of them and they are enjoying full citizen privileges without the citizens’ responsibilities. For example;
Far too many PR boys who skip NS when they turn 18. After enjoying the privileges they have a choice of not doing NS and then leave the country. I believe only around 30% of all PR boys do NS today. Well, our Singapore sons don’t have a choice but to do NS, it is an offense not to do it.
PR children study at their International system schools sticking to their home cultures.
PRs can buy HDB flats from the open market driving prices of HDB flats too high.So I urge the government to reduce the number of projected new PRs and citizens just to the population replacement levels and be more selective and differentiate their privileges from citizens. I have a few suggestions for the government to consider;
• The government in the past couple of years has tried to draw the distinction between PRs and citizens by increasing school fees and healthcare fees for them. But I wonder would it not have been better to instead partially subsidize these same fees for Singapore citizens? So do it the other way round, reduce fees for Singaporeans not just increase for PRs.
• PR children must be made do national service – it should no longer be a choice and we should make it an offence if they don’t do it. We should not grant PRs to families who don’t commit their sons to National Service.
• HDB – if a PR buys a HDB flat from the open market, charge a levy of say $50k and allow them to sell only to Singaporeans. If the PR takes up citizenship within 5 years, we can refund the levy.
• Children of PRs should be made to study in our national schools so that we increase the chance of integrating them at the next generation.
• On the employment front, it is time we implement a Singaporean first hiring policy like what is done in some developed countries like Canada. Companies should show proof first that they were not able to fill a position with a Singaporean before they are allowed to hire a foreigner.
• Reconsider the dependents policy – I have come across a number of cases where our targeted one child from China brings in 2 parents who then bring 2 parents each as their dependents – Net is that we gain one young one child who we brought in for our future but also inherited 6 older people – making our ageing population issue worse not better.
I feel the differentiated privileges will separate the genuine ones from those who are here for a ride. We should grant PRs to those who are most likely going to take up citizenships so these differentiated privileges should not stifle our plans to attract quality PRs and new citizens.
This brings me to the point of how many Singaporeans are feeling about the presence of such huge numbers of new citizens, PRs and foreigners amongst our midst. First for housing – there is no doubt that the influx of foreigners in Singapore has driven up our property prices. PRs are buying HDB flats from the open market which drives up prices.
Just last week I had a dialogue session with my private estates residents and one of my residents complained that a new citizens recently bought a landed property in this old estate and was building a 3 and a half storey towering house. Well the, new citizen, the owner of the house was also present and when, I spoke with him during the tea session I found out that he was a new citizen formerly from China, just gained his citizenship and bought not 1 but 3 landed properties in Kebun Baru alone. I was surprised and saddened because many Singaporeans cannot afford to do the same, and this new citizen, no matter how he may have made his wealth is able to do so.
Many young Singaporeans I talk to, especially those who have recently graduated and have just entered the workforce feel demoralized because many of the things that they grew up aspiring to have are now beyond their reach. Our aggressive growth strategies, which allowed cheaper foreign workers, including professionals to easily gain employment passes degraded or depressed wage levels of many Singaporeans, not just the lower income Singaporeans. I remember when I started work in 1985, my salary was $1900 as an entry level engineer. After a few years I could afford a house and a car. Today, 28 years later, an entry level engineer in Singapore earns $2600, just $700 more than what I earned when I started. The mathematics is very simple, the cost of living did not just go up by 1.3% per annum the last 27 years and even more, the cost of owning a HDB flat is did not just go up by 37% since 1985.
Finally, I am perturbed by the banquet analogy used by Minister Khaw. We are talking about lives of Singaporeans. Our banquet guests come for one night and leave when the function is over. There is no turning back when we grant PR and citizenships. We must be more exact about the numbers we want to add to the Singapore population and not plan on a basis of ‘hoping we hit some number”. Because if overdo things and end up with a population of more than 7m, it may be too late to stop the fast moving train of population growth when we fire up all the engines of growing the population. We missed the mark the last 10 years, and are already paying a high price for that mistake.
In my speech in this house in 2008 during the committee of supply debate on the population I urged the government to abandon the “the instant tree mentality” in trying to grow the population in response to the declining birth rates. At that time, I did not agree with the rate of growth pursued and we know the consequences and the hardship Singaporeans faced as a result of the rapid growth, Instant trees cannot grow strong roots and can be uprooted in difficult times. I once again urge the government to slow down and plan on reaching their population target over a longer time horizon. I don’t think we can live with a 6.9m population in 2030. We may be able to handle it in 2050, no one really knows. Please abandon this ‘instant tree” mentality as we cannot afford to make Singaporeans lives more difficult as a result. I rather we err on the side of caution when it comes to growing our population. We cannot keep paying a high price for planning misjudgements.
In Conclusion, I would like to see us take a breather from re-growing our population again. We have too many problems as a result of the last breath taking population growth rate. As a government we need to rebuild the trust and confidence among Singaporeans that our citizens matter most to us and that we are willing take a break from our relentless drive for growth to solve their problems, make their lives more comfortable, give them a better quality of life and show them that any future growth of population will not create similar social and cost of living problems. At this stage many Singaporeans from all walks of life don’t have the confidence that we can handle another steep growth of the population, so let’s not push it. I would like all of us, including the government to spend the time creating and environment that gives us confidence in our future and one where our young can see a sense of hope of opportunity and if we fail to instil a sense of hope and opportunity for our future generations, we will not be able to root them here and build a strong national identity and a strong nation. This is what building a strong Singapore core should entail. So let’s delay all plans for further population growth for now
those in power will always try to make people think they are indispensible and paint a picture of economic chaos when they are no longer around. Only the tiny minded will buy into this crap. In reality, without the MIW, things will still be status quo.
Matter is that does the meritocracy will still survive after this? based on what WP is doing? Bringing the whole country down so that few can catch up?:banghead:
I hate socialist society where people who do nothing, get rewarded. :mad:
Wait and watch.
Allthepies
11-02-13, 21:02
does switzerland or luxembourg have natural resources?
look wider around the world and always exercise your critical thinking and question what those in power will wish you believe.
Look at my whole statement, no natural resources AND very small land masses. Don't always attack part of the statement la.
Using luxemberg population density, we can only support 150,000 population.
Allthepies
11-02-13, 21:05
Singapore is very very unique, we have very very little land masses and no natural resources. We also have zero backing. Please propose or argue based on our very unique situation please. :cheers1:
Singapore is very very unique, we have very very little land masses and no natural resources. We also have zero backing. Please propose or argue based on our very unique situation please. :cheers1:
only got human to leverage on ..
:beats-me-man:
Allthepies
11-02-13, 21:11
only got human to leverage on ..
:beats-me-man:
Yes finally we have people who are factual and objective.
Sure.. no boss for a while things will works. boss go on 6mth holiday come back the company will be in chaos. U need a clear vision from the top which is the boss job. the middle management will work out a strategy base on this vision. And the working level focus on execution of this strategy.
A company without a boss is equal to a company without Vision. Sure u can leave it to ur mid mgmt.. but they all fight coz they have factions. in the end there are no strategy if not a mess 1. Then how to execute?
currently PAP is the top, give directions to the civil service to plan and execute.
i think they are not saying there is no government, instead there is a change in government, the middle and lower levels will still be there to execute what the head decides.
unless of course, those in the civil service sabotage the WP government to bring back the PAP back in power, after the citizen have seen the "incompetence" of the WP government. which may well be possible.
Singapore is very very unique, we have very very little land masses and no natural resources. We also have zero backing. Please propose or argue based on our very unique situation please. :cheers1:
singapore is like the story of the little dog who gets the bone, while the 2 much bigger dogs, indonesia and malaysia fight each other.
Allthepies
11-02-13, 21:15
singapore is like the story of the little dog who gets the bone, while the 2 much bigger dogs, indonesia and malaysia fight each other.
Internal fragmentation is not helping us. Yes we can be easily eaten by the 2 bigger dogs. Sigh.....
Regulators
11-02-13, 21:25
think you should talk some sense into minority coz he believes the purpose of capitalism is towards a socialist end. I must say I am 100% against socialism.
Matter is that does the meritocracy will still survive after this? based on what WP is doing? Bringing the whole country down so that few can catch up?:banghead:
I hate socialist society where people who do nothing, get rewarded. :mad:
Wait and watch.
Regulators
11-02-13, 21:35
this is not called fragmentation, this is called societal maturation. people are starting to understand the importance of democracy, a word they have said thousands of times in the pledge.
Internal fragmentation is not helping us. Yes we can be easily eaten by the 2 bigger dogs. Sigh.....
currently PAP is the top, give directions to the civil service to plan and execute.
i think they are not saying there is no government, instead there is a change in government, the middle and lower levels will still be there to execute what the head decides.
unless of course, those in the civil service sabotage the WP government to bring back the PAP back in power, after the citizen have seen the "incompetence" of the WP government. which may well be possible.
Frankly I dont care who is on the top. To me if things are not broken why must change? Change means will be better? I dont feel its a certainty. so must take that chance. Why cannot improve whats working now?
I dont see WP can do the job. and some people say must give chance? Well why must take a chance our future? I want a more grantee proven future. There is no room for mistake in taking chance.
This is the real world we don't live a dream that can wake up to a nice sweet
coffee. And take a nightmare as just a bad dream.
this is not called fragmentation, this is called societal maturation. people are starting to understand the importance of democracy, a word they have said thousands of times in the pledge.
oh really? word more important than bread? well maybe comes a time no bread then u worry and blame again?
Look at my whole statement, no natural resources AND very small land masses. Don't always attack part of the statement la.
Using luxemberg population density, we can only support 150,000 population.
swiss also depending on immigration to boost their population. They also have the same problem as us with a TFR of 1.2
and their immigration focus are now going for skill workforce.
so frankly what we are doing is not un proven or never done before.
currently PAP is the top, give directions to the civil service to plan and execute.
i think they are not saying there is no government, instead there is a change in government, the middle and lower levels will still be there to execute what the head decides.
unless of course, those in the civil service sabotage the WP government to bring back the PAP back in power, after the citizen have seen the "incompetence" of the WP government. which may well be possible.
u are also assuming the new head is BETTER? ;)
in the mean time the mid mgmt fragments. and fight.
Look at taiwan. a bloody weak head. see whats happening to the country?
Regulators
12-02-13, 00:03
society needs to progress lah, are you still worried about bread and butter issues at this stage? If you are, maybe you are not working hard enough to take care of your family well, that is why you are turning to socialism. :doh:
oh really? word more important than bread? well maybe comes a time no bread then u worry and blame again?
A good leader will leave a good system such that it will work well no matter who take over.
So now the brainless is saying opp take over wont cause chaos to singapore because a proper system is in place. In another words, acknowledging we have good leaders now. Yet want to change it because these bunch of people are lazy and choose to be keey board warriors instead of working hard. Expecting property price to come down becuase they cannot afford it due to laziness to find extra income.
Anyway, i wont be replying to all dumb post on alternative gov views. If you are brainless, you will reply to this post.
society needs to progress lah, are you still worried about bread and butter issues at this stage? If you are, maybe you are not working hard enough to take care of your family well, that is why you are turning to socialism. :doh:
hah hah.. wood head is wood head.
currently PAP is the top, give directions to the civil service to plan and execute.
i think they are not saying there is no government, instead there is a change in government, the middle and lower levels will still be there to execute what the head decides.
unless of course, those in the civil service sabotage the WP government to bring back the PAP back in power, after the citizen have seen the "incompetence" of the WP government. which may well be possible.
i used to think so until the AIM-gate saga happened. even town councils are viewed as political assets by the ruling party, when they should be serving the general public.
the grassroots, CC, RC, HDB, whatever-privately-owned-PAP-business, etc etc, are already sabotaging WP in the handover process of aljunied GRC.
there must be a clear separation of powers between civil service and political parties
Regulators
14-02-13, 12:16
the concept of separation of powers has long gone down the drain when the miw came into power.
i used to think so until the AIM-gate saga happened. even town councils are viewed as political assets by the ruling party, when they should be serving the general public.
the grassroots, CC, RC, HDB, whatever-privately-owned-PAP-business, etc etc, are already sabotaging WP in the handover process of aljunied GRC.
there must be a clear separation of powers between civil service and political parties
the concept of separation of powers has long gone down the drain when the miw came into power.
sigh...me know too.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.