View Full Version : see alot of netizens very angry with govt ..but who can be better ?
i must say our PM Lee H L is indeed doing his best for singapore's future..
alot of decisions & ideas had been discussed internally and i guess this route which pm lee build upon for us is the right one.. some will suffer and some will gain..
so, our PM lee isn't a bad guy lah :ashamed1: just that he is doing his job to keep singapore in better shape for the future... (i just sense it isn't an easy job when other neighbor countries grow in 10-20 years time) ... future sg govt will have a tough time.. :o
i must say our PM Lee H L is indeed doing his best for singapore's future..
alot of decisions & ideas had been discussed internally and i guess this route which pm lee build upon for us is the right one.. some will suffer and some will gain..
so, our PM lee isn't a bad guy lah :ashamed1: just that he is doing his job to keep singapore in better shape for the future... (i just sense it isn't an easy job when other neighbor countries grow in 10-20 years time) ... future sg govt will have a tough time.. :o
do u think he can survive 2016 ? :D
i must say our PM Lee H L is indeed doing his best for singapore's future..
alot of decisions & ideas had been discussed internally and i guess this route which pm lee build upon for us is the right one.. some will suffer and some will gain..
so, our PM lee isn't a bad guy lah :ashamed1: just that he is doing his job to keep singapore in better shape for the future... (i just sense it isn't an easy job when other neighbor countries grow in 10-20 years time) ... future sg govt will have a tough time.. :o
Well Singapore is like a kid in the teens. notthing the parent says are right. Only things they hear from their friends are correct. I guess if things F up. We just have to learn from the hard knocks
Anyway I feel the current administration at least have the balls to address this. They could have kick the can down the road and take the popular vote like what the opposition is doing. Just give the people wat the want and F it. not their problem anyway after 20yrs.
Let's not forget we are here today not by mistake or sheer luck but hard work and planning.
do u think he can survive 2016 ? :D
hopefully not. :D
Well Singapore is like a kid in the teens. notthing the parent says are right. Only things they hear from their friends are correct. I guess if things F up. We just have to learn from the hard knocks
Anyway I feel the current administration at least have the balls to address this. They could have kick the can down the road and take the popular vote like what the opposition is doing. Just give the people wat the want and F it. not their problem anyway after 20yrs.
Let's not forget we are here today not by mistake or sheer luck but hard work and planning.
is the relationship between the govt and citizens that of parent and kid?
to think so belies a fundamental error in thinking and a lack of understanding of democracy.
Alexander Fraser Tytler:
Why democracies fail
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."
Seems relevant in Singapore context. PAP in tough position now. Opposition promise this promise that.
Alexander Fraser Tytler:
Why democracies fail
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."
Seems relevant in Singapore context. PAP in tough position now. Opposition promise this promise that.
this is so true..
different people different strokes..
to me democracy is not as important as the country's future... i still belive that sometimes we need to make a hard decision
hopefully not. :D
why not ah?
do u think he can survive 2016 ? :D
According to chinese astrology, his dragon luck should improve from 2013 onwards. :D
http://www.wayonnet.com/2013/dragon.asp
Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-plans-rare-protest-population-debate-rages-124703195--sector.html
I find all these people lack of hindsight and foresight...
just complain and complain...
Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-plans-rare-protest-population-debate-rages-124703195--sector.html
I find all these people lack of hindsight and foresight...
just complain and complain...
its just stirring up emotions. Some want to see singapore fail. some want to see leading party fail. some want to see crash so can benefit.
question is wat do this generation of singaporean want for the next?
my take many simply don't care. only care what they feel will have benefit for them right here right now. Future ? thats other people tai ji.
why not ah?
he shld step down as he has proven to have no new ideas and a poor leader. No solutions never mind, but make problems worse. :D
Estrangable
07-02-13, 09:54
Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-plans-rare-protest-population-debate-rages-124703195--sector.html
I find all these people lack of hindsight and foresight...
just complain and complain...
planning a protest is lacking of hindsight or foresight? BTW we are living in a democratic country and people have the right to protest. Protest is not a form of complaining.
i think you are the one who is not thinking clearly. 6.9 mil in this tiny island. Maybe you are so vested in the property market that you are blinded.
Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-plans-rare-protest-population-debate-rages-124703195--sector.html
I find all these people lack of hindsight and foresight...
just complain and complain...
I personally believe Singapore is now doomed.
Hardworking generation is gone and now is the generation who will spoil everything so they can have cheap housing and can raid the reserves.
I am avoiding any more exposure to Singapore.
very good question.
some naive ppl think LTK can do the job. when tat happen is time to be a FT elsewhere :D
I suppose most of netizens are gen Y and X.
This big group of people have been so well taken care by the Govt, and sad to say, not appreciative.
They shall see what happen to the same group of people in China, HK, Taiwan, India, Europe, US, any part of the world and compare.
Our Govt has done exceptionally well especially when the country has nothing in natural resources.
As far as the population policy is concerned, the only wish is they be more selective and take in the right people.
i really don see a problem if govt want to build everything based on 6.9m. at least we are sure we are infrastructure ready by 2030. whether or not the population hit tat number is still a question mark. if it hit, we are ready. if it did not we are more than ready
I suppose most of netizens are gen Y and X.
This big group of people have been so well taken care by the Govt, and sad to say, not appreciative.
They shall see what happen to the same group of people in China, HK, Taiwan, India, Europe, US, any part of the world and compare.
Our Govt has done exceptionally well especially when the country has nothing in natural resources.
As far as the population policy is concerned, the only wish is they be more selective and take in the right people.
agree. now that we are more attractive we can choose the people we want.
i really don see a problem if govt want to build everything based on 6.9m. at least we are sure we are infrastructure ready by 2030. whether or not the population hit tat number is still a question mark. if it hit, we are ready. if it did not we are more than ready
actually I feel its a good plan. At least during the process of building we also create jobs for the next 20 yrs.
I suppose most of netizens are gen Y and X.
This big group of people have been so well taken care by the Govt, and sad to say, not appreciative.
They shall see what happen to the same group of people in China, HK, Taiwan, India, Europe, US, any part of the world and compare.
Our Govt has done exceptionally well especially when the country has nothing in natural resources.
As far as the population policy is concerned, the only wish is they be more selective and take in the right people.
but does anyone here feel there seems many later Baby Boomer are following the cult?
phantom_opera
07-02-13, 10:18
I Do Not Trust Data From Any Government
I dont trust the data from any government, including the U.S. for goodness sake. We know governments lie to us all the time...but we know they are all lying. I dont know whether China is growing at 3 percent or 33 percent but I do know they are booming. I know there is a lot of good stuff going on in China and a lot of good stuff going on throughout Asia. - Jim Rogers
Is good stuff happening in SG?
agree. now that we are more attractive we can choose the people we want.
I was talking to some China friends on some major issues about China :
1. popullation in air, river, water
2. food safety
3. transport problems
4. physical safety, especially the young children
The consequences of these, the rich will find a place be a second home outside China or even HK.
Also, where is the best place you can think off? Sg? HK? Canada? Australia? US? Europe?
All these riches still have their businesses running in China, they cannot be too far away from China.
thomastansb
07-02-13, 10:21
I got some really stupid colleagues and friends telling me HDB so ex. 1 million, how to buy. I really find them really f*cking dumb and I talked to them lesser after that. You talk too much with such idiots, you will become stupid also.
A 4 bedroom HDB costs only 250k. We have so many brainless people around, I think Singapore will not survive 4th gen. Better take my money and go somewhere else. Singapore can become Vietnam in 10 years time if some fools take over the Government.
Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-plans-rare-protest-population-debate-rages-124703195--sector.html
I find all these people lack of hindsight and foresight...
just complain and complain...
I was talking to some China friends on some major issues about China :
1. popullation in air, river, water
2. food safety
3. transport problems
4. physical safety, especially the young children
The consequences of these, the rich will find a place be a second home outside China or even HK.
Also, where is the best place you can think off? Sg? HK? Canada? Australia? US? Europe?
All these riches still have their businesses running in China, they cannot be too far away from China.
why look so far, look at what the rich in malaysia and indonesia are doing?
they buy properties in singapore, but they still stay in their home countries.
thomastansb
07-02-13, 10:26
I am moving my funds slowly out also. Just in case. Planning to get a PR in Japan or New Zealand. I am a Gen Y btw but I can see many of my Gen Y friends saying that many people deserve a car and HDB should be priced at 50k. What a joke...
I personally believe Singapore is now doomed.
Hardworking generation is gone and now is the generation who will spoil everything so they can have cheap housing and can raid the reserves.
I am avoiding any more exposure to Singapore.
I got some really stupid colleagues and friends telling me HDB so ex. 1 million, how to buy. I really find them really f*cking dumb and I talked to them lesser after that. You talk too much with such idiots, you will become stupid also.
A 4 bedroom HDB costs only 250k. We have so many brainless people around, I think Singapore will not survive 4th gen. Better take my money and go somewhere else. Singapore can become Vietnam in 10 years time if some fools take over the Government.
all only read the news head lines or sensationalized emails or blogs. All miss out the actual picture. 1M wah..... all scream. seel 6.9M wahh all scream. fear then brew more fear. and some parties strive on these thus stir up emotions.
Lets throw the baby out with the bath water too!! economy? its a conspiracy too...
frankly it take guts n a steady mind to see through all the noise and focus on the real things. people are all just carried away.
like the protest.. I think some feel its hip! other country have we must too! yeah...:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
One can quote whatever definition of democracy is. At the end of the day, who take the blame for the issues highlighted if this is not addressed. The one tat suffers will be the very one who kpkb and vote the alternative voice in. As i said, i am damn lucky to have vested overseas as wat the miw has always warned, if things turn out bad, the capable will leave sg. Tat is so true.
Regulators
07-02-13, 10:27
it is not lacking foresight, they are just suffering from a disease, they are sick of the pap :D
Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-plans-rare-protest-population-debate-rages-124703195--sector.html
I find all these people lack of hindsight and foresight...
just complain and complain...
I am moving my funds slowly out also. Just in case. Planning to get a PR in Japan or New Zealand. I am a Gen Y btw but I can see many of my Gen Y friends saying that many people deserve a car and HDB should be priced at 50k. What a joke...
welcome to a sheltered nation.
it is not lacking foresight, they are just suffering from a disease, they are sick of the pap :D
its a case of grass is greener on the other side. But ehhhh is it grass ?? cant see clearly leh.... i think end up as just dirt painted green.
Regulators
07-02-13, 10:32
you are so young and planning to leave? Japan has the highest cost of living in the world, why do you want to move there?
I am moving my funds slowly out also. Just in case. Planning to get a PR in Japan or New Zealand. I am a Gen Y btw but I can see many of my Gen Y friends saying that many people deserve a car and HDB should be priced at 50k. What a joke...
forummers really rich here. different forums for different folks.
here i pro-pap.
in tre, i also pro-pap, become troll bait.
Regulators
07-02-13, 10:34
did I say the people are moving? :doh:
its a case of grass is greener on the other side. But ehhhh is it grass ?? cant see clearly leh.... i think end up as just dirt painted green.
did I say the people are moving? :doh:
did I say they moved? yet?:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
I got some really stupid colleagues and friends telling me HDB so ex. 1 million, how to buy. I really find them really f*cking dumb and I talked to them lesser after that. You talk too much with such idiots, you will become stupid also.
A 4 bedroom HDB costs only 250k. We have so many brainless people around, I think Singapore will not survive 4th gen. Better take my money and go somewhere else. Singapore can become Vietnam in 10 years time if some fools take over the Government.
actually, many people are like that leh.. their expectations is to buy a big bto flats near their parents in the central.. then sell it and make many $
i wonder how come when i started, i never complain.. i just humbly queue and buy a flat in the far north.... how come the expectation of the young generation are so different now.. expect the good thing with less work.. to me this is really worrying...it makes me think of OZ... but OZ is very very blessed country...
forummers really rich here. different forums for different folks.
here i pro-pap.
in tre, i also pro-pap, become troll bait.
There are all 1 set mind. u give them a troll as MP they will pick the Troll over a PAP. its blind hate.
Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-plans-rare-protest-population-debate-rages-124703195--sector.html
I find all these people lack of hindsight and foresight...
just complain and complain...
The easiest way to solve a problem is pointing it to another person.
That's y the are still complaining:cool:
very good question.
some naive ppl think LTK can do the job. when tat happen is time to be a FT elsewhere :D
i think as Amy Khor said just the other day, Sporeans are free to move elsewhere. those want to be elsewhere do feel free to do so. :D
its a case of grass is greener on the other side. But ehhhh is it grass ?? cant see clearly leh.... i think end up as just dirt painted green.
Obviously the grass is greener elsewhere! Dont u see a few in this thread already telling u they have moved their assets elsewhere or planning to uproot? :)
There are all 1 set mind. u give them a troll as MP they will pick the Troll over a PAP. its blind hate.
i did try to give them the example that all people are their own bosses, and selling their labour to the companies and in return for their labour, they are paid, ie the form of salary.
for example, in sim lim square, you buy a computer from cheapest store. would anybody buy from a more expensive store?
same same, companies is sourcing for the cheapest labour. if singaporeans more expensive, why should companies hire singaporeans? unless there are product differentiation?
if want to work in foreigner proof industries, join police force or other security sensitive jobs where only citizens can work.
Obviously the grass is greener elsewhere! Dont u see a few in this thread already telling u they have moved their assets elsewhere or planning to uproot? :)
If it makes them happier, y not.
Complaining won't solve the problem leh.
unless the person in charge really listens:cool:
i did try to give them the example that all people are their own bosses, and selling their labour to the companies and in return for their labour, they are paid, ie the form of salary.
for example, in sim lim square, you buy a computer from cheapest store. would anybody buy from a more expensive store?
same same, companies is sourcing for the cheapest labour. if singaporeans more expensive, why should companies hire singaporeans? unless there are product differentiation?
if want to work in foreigner proof industries, join police force or other security sensitive jobs where only citizens can work.
Thus singaporean if u demand more pay u have to move up the value chain. things we do have to be of higher value to the international world. but that would also means we have to be constantly on the move on our toes to stay a head.
thats life. u want it u have to work for it. no free lunch.
i think this is classic :D want the best available, but cannot wait :D
Speed up work on older BTO projects <url> (http://www.straitstimes.com/premium/forum-letters/story/speed-work-older-bto-projects-20130202)
THE Government encourages married couples to have babies. My husband and I do want to have children, but we cannot do so at the moment because we have no home to call our own.
I have been married for more than three years, and all this while, I have been living with my in-laws.
My husband and I do not plan to have children yet because of space constraints in my in-laws' home.
We applied for a Build-to-Order (BTO) project, SkyVille@Dawson, in December 2009.
The Government has said that more affordable new housing would be provided with shorter waiting times ("Buying HDB flats: Easier, more affordable"; March 4, 2011). But this is not the case for older projects that were launched before the announcement.
The estimated completion date of our BTO flat is between the third quarter of 2015 and 2016.
If we were to wait till then, we would have been married for six years before we can start thinking about having children.
By then, it would be harder for us to conceive because of our age.
I urge the Government to speed up older BTO projects such as Skyville@Dawson to help couples like us start families earlier.
Jaslin Huang (Ms)
If it makes them happier, y not.
Complaining won't solve the problem leh.
unless the person in charge really listens:cool:
Exactly, the people who are complaining here and claiming they will uproot have already make their plans and put their money where their mouth is.
i am supportive of them moving elsewhere and hope they are happy. :)
i think this is classic :D want the best available, but cannot wait :D
last time 1 house 3 family live in it. and they still have many children. well expectation have changed. state need to provide for all. from place to have kid to cost to have kids. to emotional support to education support to transport support.
arent we a sheltered bunch?
phantom_opera
07-02-13, 11:03
both the Pinnacle@Duxton and this Dawson prime HDBs taking long long time to complete ... from apply, TOP till 5y MOP can be 10y ... is this purposely done by HDB?? ;)
both the Pinnacle@Duxton and this Dawson prime HDBs taking long long time to complete ... from apply, TOP till 5y MOP can be 10y ... is this purposely done by HDB?? ;)
Hdb reply:
http://www.straitstimes.com/premium/forum-letters/story/more-complex-bto-projects-need-longer-time-complete-hdb-20130206
More complex BTO projects need longer time to complete: HDB
LAUNCHED in December 2009, SkyVille@Dawson is a 47-storey development with unique features such as sky bridges, building facade treatment and architectural features ("Speed*up work on older BTO projects" by Ms Jaslin Huang; last Saturday).
The construction time would inevitably be longer for projects of such complexity.
Buyers were informed of the estimated completion date (third quarter of 2015) at the time the project was launched and again when they were invited to select the flats.
Together with SkyVille@Dawson, there*were two other projects launched in the same Build-to-Order sale exercise that had earlier completion dates in 2013 and 2014.
Ms Huang therefore had the option of applying for either of these projects if she needed a flat earlier.
The HDB is closely monitoring the progress of SkyVille@Dawson to meet the committed completion date.
Chong Chung Nee
Director (Project Devt & Mgt)
Housing & Development Board
thomastansb
07-02-13, 11:41
That is why I say they are fools. It is like you say "Uncle, 1 chicken rice". Uncle say "Only left breast meat". You say "Ok".
When the chicken rice come, you ask, how come breast meat? Can drumstick or not?
Are they even educated? Or they are plain stupid. The next gen will pull us all down. Better get a PR somewhere first. At least got other options.
i think this is classic :D want the best available, but cannot wait :D
That is why I say they are fools. It is like you say "Uncle, 1 chicken rice". Uncle say "Only left breast meat". You say "Ok".
When the chicken rice come, you ask, how come breast meat? Can drumstick or not?
Are they even educated? Or they are plain stupid. The next gen will pull us all down. Better get a PR somewhere first. At least got other options.
what drum stick? wanna the whole chicken now. but I dont want see the effort to make it hor. and must be cheap too! and dont tell me u need FT to make it ok.!
Regulators
07-02-13, 11:55
so you are saying for the past donkey years that the govt has implemented skill upgrading for Singaporean workers n integrating older workers is all just done for show? as mentioned, govt can attract companies here in other ways, they should incentivise hiring of local workers, but did they? they should have have tax cuts for companies who hire local workers but did they? there are tons that the govt can do to help locals but they obviously haven't, choosing to favor corporations n allowing them to slash wages at their whim.
i did try to give them the example that all people are their own bosses, and selling their labour to the companies and in return for their labour, they are paid, ie the form of salary.
for example, in sim lim square, you buy a computer from cheapest store. would anybody buy from a more expensive store?
same same, companies is sourcing for the cheapest labour. if singaporeans more expensive, why should companies hire singaporeans? unless there are product differentiation?
if want to work in foreigner proof industries, join police force or other security sensitive jobs where only citizens can work.
I was talking to some China friends on some major issues about China :
1. popullation in air, river, water
2. food safety
3. transport problems
4. physical safety, especially the young children
The consequences of these, the rich will find a place be a second home outside China or even HK.
Also, where is the best place you can think off? Sg? HK? Canada? Australia? US? Europe?
All these riches still have their businesses running in China, they cannot be too far away from China.
In Singapore, the middle class is the one suffering..
In China, the lower class is the one suffering..
As for going out of China, it is for those who are corrupted as a way out.
I have relatives all went to china and work and never come back anymore. You ask them why, all the answer are the same.. It is just better there...
thomastansb
07-02-13, 12:14
Haha. They want the whole chicken at $2. So they can sell the drumstick at $3 out and still eat the chicken. Preferably, someone can give $1 more as COV.
I remember someone asking the minister to allow 1 car per household in Singapore. We have roughly 1.5 million household in Singapore and we have about 500k private cars now and the roads are already at its limit and there is insufficient parking spaces. Guess what will happen when 500k becomes 1,500k.
That is why I say, many young people are brainless, daft, ignorant etc. I don't know what kind of education they are going through when they tell you 1+1=0.2.
what drum stick? wanna the whole chicken now. but I dont want see the effort to make it hor. and must be cheap too! and dont tell me u need FT to make it ok.!
Haha. They want the whole chicken at $2. So they can sell the drumstick at $3 out and still eat the chicken. Preferably, someone can give $1 more as COV.
I remember someone asking the minister to allow 1 car per household in Singapore. We have roughly 1.5 million household in Singapore and we have about 500k private cars now and the roads are already at its limit and there is insufficient parking spaces. Guess what will happen when 500k becomes 1,500k.
That is why I say, many young people are brainless, daft, ignorant etc. I don't know what kind of education they are going through when they tell you 1+1=0.2.
its the ME ME ME.. all abt MEEEzzzz coz I BOOMZZZZZ generation.
I have relatives all went to china and work and never come back anymore. You ask them why, all the answer are the same.. It is just better there...
got any details included?
they have more space to breathe, which i know.. lol:D
Regulators
07-02-13, 12:26
I don't know about better air if they live in the capital
got any details included?
they have more space to breathe, which i know.. lol:D
Haha. They want the whole chicken at $2. So they can sell the drumstick at $3 out and still eat the chicken. Preferably, someone can give $1 more as COV.
I remember someone asking the minister to allow 1 car per household in Singapore. We have roughly 1.5 million household in Singapore and we have about 500k private cars now and the roads are already at its limit and there is insufficient parking spaces. Guess what will happen when 500k becomes 1,500k.
That is why I say, many young people are brainless, daft, ignorant etc. I don't know what kind of education they are going through when they tell you 1+1=0.2.
It is understandable why they have this line of thought given that they were not the direct beneficiaries of the infancy of a new credit cycle, unlike those of the older age groups who were there.
I don't know about better air if they live in the capital
Pollution (smog) in Beijing has gone beyond the index.
what drum stick? wanna the whole chicken now. but I dont want see the effort to make it hor. and must be cheap too! and dont tell me u need FT to make it ok.!Not only drum stick or whole chicken, they expect it to be presented and taste like the one at Mandarin Hotel, but expect to pay $2 for it, best if can $1 or comes with free egg and drink. Screw up.
EXPECT EVERYTHING, WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING! :banghead:
Really feel insecure about the future of our country, not because our leaders are not making things right all the time, but the growing grumpiness of the complain kings and queens who prefer to savour on instant gratification. Just feel strange about this group of people who are just so anti-pro that no matter how good the pro is, they are simply unsatisfied (as if they have better solution). Everybody on the streets errs sometimes, let alone be our leaders. They are doing their best, couldnt think of any who can do better. As long as the infrastructure, land usage and facility issues are put right, there shouldnt be much issue about having more people. The fact that people here are mostly employed in our natural resource-scarce country is the attraction of foreign setups that create more jobs. Couldnt imagine what will happen if all these foreign companies pack their bags and go. Guess these people who complain will be left jobless, and of course never failing to raise their complaining decibel, ha and never knowing they are smacking themselves on their face. I love a vibrant and energetic country, not a dull and greying one.
biggest mistake by govt is listening and give in too much to the ground. Every policy will certainly hurt some group of ppl. they should always put country first in every policy making. afterall if country fail theres not much to talk about. sometime i think iron Lee method need to revive with a little twist. if someone deserve a slap, really need to slap them and not give in to them.
planning a protest is lacking of hindsight or foresight? BTW we are living in a democratic country and people have the right to protest. Protest is not a form of complaining.
i think you are the one who is not thinking clearly. 6.9 mil in this tiny island. Maybe you are so vested in the property market that you are blinded.
May I know protest is productive? issue already known. Government already acknowledge they hear the people pains. Need protest?
what next? free country also should have riot too?
Singapore is small but we are bigger than HK. if HK can house 7M and they have lots of less usable land than us. u mean we cannot? plus our urban planning is much better done than HK.
IF u think u cannot u never can.
does any pro 6.9million supporters agree that 6.9 million is not the final figure?
as long TFR is below 2.1, population is greying.
soon it will be 8mil , then 10mil.
it will be a geometric rise in population growth.
lets say 6 worker to support 1 retiree.
down the years, we need 36 workers to support the original 6 worker retiring.
i do agree with naysayers from TRE that TFR is the problem.
does any pro 6.9million supporters agree that 6.9 million is not the final figure?
as long TFR is below 2.1, population is greying.
soon it will be 8mil , then 10mil.
it will be a geometric rise in population growth.
lets say 6 worker to support 1 retiree.
down the years, we need 36 workers to support the original 6 worker retiring.
i do agree with naysayers from TRE that TFR is the problem.
6.9 compromise lot of foreigners who will leave once they get old.
May I know protest is productive? issue already known. Government already acknowledge they hear the people pains. Need protest?
what next? free country also should have riot too?
Singapore is small but we are bigger than HK. if HK can house 7M and they have lots of less usable land than us. u mean we cannot? plus our urban planning is much better done than HK.
IF u think u cannot u never can.
does that mean u are happy with the latest white paper and think no more improvement can be made?
The white paper is grousely inadequate! They should plan for 12m population by 2030!
does that mean u are happy with the latest white paper and think no more improvement can be made?
biggest mistake by govt is listening and give in too much to the ground. Every policy will certainly hurt some group of ppl. they should always put country first in every policy making. afterall if country fail theres not much to talk about. sometime i think iron Lee method need to revive with a little twist. if someone deserve a slap, really need to slap them and not give in to them.
A major crisis is what is needed. A big one, like sars. This will make the complain king and queen wet their pants and diam diam.
A major crisis is what is needed. A big one, like sars. This will make the complain king and queen wet their pants and diam diam.
why wet their pants? it will make properties, both private and hdb affordable.
proud owner
07-02-13, 16:09
do u think he can survive 2016 ? :D
i am sure he can survive 2016
some of the other ministers i am not sure though
transport still a major problem
and by the way which ministry is in charge of traffic police ?
i think they are crappy
proud owner
07-02-13, 16:12
is the relationship between the govt and citizens that of parent and kid?
to think so belies a fundamental error in thinking and a lack of understanding of democracy.
definitely not
at least LKY doesnt believe so ... PAP is not the parent
see how they treat the Opposition wards ...
they dont get upgrading etc ...
is that how parents treat their children who do not obey them ?
proud owner
07-02-13, 16:15
very good question.
some naive ppl think LTK can do the job. when tat happen is time to be a FT elsewhere :D
and why not ?
why can LTK do a good job ?
proud owner
07-02-13, 16:19
i think as Amy Khor said just the other day, Sporeans are free to move elsewhere. those want to be elsewhere do feel free to do so. :D
is that why the ex chief justice Yong P H moved out of singapore ?
is that why the ex chief justice Yong P H moved out of singapore ?
sure or not? :scared-4:
how you know about it?
did he get 'fixed' by the white shirt for doing something wrong?
proud owner
07-02-13, 16:25
biggest mistake by govt is listening and give in too much to the ground. Every policy will certainly hurt some group of ppl. they should always put country first in every policy making. afterall if country fail theres not much to talk about. sometime i think iron Lee method need to revive with a little twist. if someone deserve a slap, really need to slap them and not give in to them.
problem is the Iron Lee method slapped local harder than foreigner ...
proud owner
07-02-13, 16:28
sure or not? :scared-4:
how you know about it?
did he get 'fixed' by the white shirt for doing something wrong?
he lives in Shanghai
Regulators
07-02-13, 16:32
pap has become so petty that just because they lost punggol east, they are not pushing for upgrades to the town. this further proves wp right that pap is far from being caring to the people. the pap must remember that the people in punggol are paying taxes for nation building so should town upgrading be something left to their whim?
definitely not
at least LKY doesnt believe so ... PAP is not the parent
see how they treat the Opposition wards ...
they dont get upgrading etc ...
is that how parents treat their children who do not obey them ?
phantom_opera
07-02-13, 16:36
George W Bush: it is either you are with us or with the terrorists :p
proud owner
07-02-13, 16:40
George W Bush: it is either you are with us or with the terrorists :p
thats why he lost the subsequent election
flawed ... as long you have enough new foreigners to fill up the gap with buffer ... the whole econ can continue to run without stalling ...
your 6 workers will be booted out once they earn enough to go back and retire ... you think they would stay here if they can retire as a King back home?
the ageing is fixed ... 900k .. who's going to support them?
their children? please look at the youngsters nowadays ...
the aged themselves in future? look at all the kpkb ... complain and complain everything cannot afford ... working mentality and attitude so sucky ...
like that who's going to take care of them?
does any pro 6.9million supporters agree that 6.9 million is not the final figure?
as long TFR is below 2.1, population is greying.
soon it will be 8mil , then 10mil.
it will be a geometric rise in population growth.
lets say 6 worker to support 1 retiree.
down the years, we need 36 workers to support the original 6 worker retiring.
i do agree with naysayers from TRE that TFR is the problem.
phantom_opera
07-02-13, 16:57
Elitist thinking is in danger of a backlash now in Singapore
CCR property will carry more risk now
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/cap-population-6m-says-nmp-laurence-lien-20130207
Growth could be supported instead by better restructuring efforts to bring in higher-skilled firms and labour, to use the reserves to invest in strategic industries and to make use of Singaporeans' savings "to maintain economic vitality".
"I am having a major disconnect. How did we go from fearing ageing and depopulation to having a potential population explosion? Where does this dependence on growing GDP (gross domestic product) through increased immigration end?" he said in Parliament on the fourth day of the debate.
The goals of raising productivity and slowing down workforce growth gave a sense of deja vu, he pointed out, as they were same targets set exactly 10 years ago by the then-government's Economic Review Committee, as he questioned whether the Government is really serious about moderating foreign workforce growth.
Companies are still addicted to cheap, less-skilled foreign labour, and need "restructuring, or rehabilitation, not more drugs", he said.
flawed ... as long you have enough new foreigners to fill up the gap with buffer ... the whole econ can continue to run without stalling ...
your 6 workers will be booted out once they earn enough to go back and retire ... you think they would stay here if they can retire as a King back home?
the ageing is fixed ... 900k .. who's going to support them?
their children? please look at the youngsters nowadays ...
the aged themselves in future? look at all the kpkb ... complain and complain everything cannot afford ... working mentality and attitude so sucky ...
like that who's going to take care of them?
I don't understand how 6 foreigner worker can support 1 retiree? R retiree getting any pension or support from the government? R the government paying for all the medical bill? Bullshit.. U r asking 6 foreigner worker to come and push down the salary of the 2 adult children supporting one retiree... Hahaha..
proud owner
07-02-13, 17:21
flawed ... as long you have enough new foreigners to fill up the gap with buffer ... the whole econ can continue to run without stalling ...
your 6 workers will be booted out once they earn enough to go back and retire ... you think they would stay here if they can retire as a King back home?
the ageing is fixed ... 900k .. who's going to support them?
their children? please look at the youngsters nowadays ...
the aged themselves in future? look at all the kpkb ... complain and complain everything cannot afford ... working mentality and attitude so sucky ...
like that who's going to take care of them?
exactly
i have spoken with many PRs .... almost 9/10 said they wud return to their home country ...
so to make this plan work ... they govt shud only give out citizenship and not PR so easily ...
as to whos going to look after the aged ... cant depend on the younger generations...
it all boils down to up bringing again ...
try as we may to impart that sense of taking care of the older ones ...... unfortunately the govt is not doing their part ...
todate they have never given any FREE to the oder generation ...
whats the point of that stupid dinner at community center and an ang pow ???
these old folks are happy only for that moment ...
The way things are going govt and people won't have to worry abt population.
Once the MNCs see these protests and restrictions they will leave on their own taking jobs and people somewhere else.
what's the revenue source for Singapore anyway?
How long it can survive without MNCs?
exactly
i have spoken with many PRs .... almost 9/10 said they wud return to their home country ...
so to make this plan work ... they govt shud only give out citizenship and not PR so easily ...
as to whos going to look after the aged ... cant depend on the younger generations...
it all boils down to up bringing again ...
try as we may to impart that sense of taking care of the older ones ...... unfortunately the govt is not doing their part ...
todate they have never given any FREE to the oder generation ...
whats the point of that stupid dinner at community center and an ang pow ???
these old folks are happy only for that moment ...
If even that we have to depend on government to impart. indeed as a generation of sgpean we are doomed.
is that why the ex chief justice Yong P H moved out of singapore ?
good riddance i say. :D
I'm sure its not just PRs .. its all our new citizens who will return home once target achieved (xcluding those young kids that grew up here since super young, i'm sure they stay) ... what is citizenship?
Bro RCT, yes, it is true that you cannot see how 6 foreigners can support our aged .. because of the way how we are taking in any foreigner ... in fact, easily 80% are all FW, not FT ... coz the quality is so lousy .. esp those PMETs
practically most of the important and difficult work are done by locals .. only locals can do the work .. that's why they are being suppressed and overworked
its a messy mess ... shared blame .. no point just pointing fingers .. we have to clear this ourselves as one people
exactly
i have spoken with many PRs .... almost 9/10 said they wud return to their home country ...
so to make this plan work ... they govt shud only give out citizenship and not PR so easily ...
as to whos going to look after the aged ... cant depend on the younger generations...
it all boils down to up bringing again ...
try as we may to impart that sense of taking care of the older ones ...... unfortunately the govt is not doing their part ...
todate they have never given any FREE to the oder generation ...
whats the point of that stupid dinner at community center and an ang pow ???
these old folks are happy only for that moment ...
Now PAP is the ruling party, those who complain will support opposition. Once WP takes over, those ppl will continue to complain and want another party to take over. Tough tough.. :doh:
Allthepies
07-02-13, 20:29
Really feel insecure about the future of our country, not because our leaders are not making things right all the time, but the growing grumpiness of the complain kings and queens who prefer to savour on instant gratification. Just feel strange about this group of people who are just so anti-pro that no matter how good the pro is, they are simply unsatisfied (as if they have better solution). Everybody on the streets errs sometimes, let alone be our leaders. They are doing their best, couldnt think of any who can do better. As long as the infrastructure, land usage and facility issues are put right, there shouldnt be much issue about having more people. The fact that people here are mostly employed in our natural resource-scarce country is the attraction of foreign setups that create more jobs. Couldnt imagine what will happen if all these foreign companies pack their bags and go. Guess these people who complain will be left jobless, and of course never failing to raise their complaining decibel, ha and never knowing they are smacking themselves on their face. I love a vibrant and energetic country, not a dull and greying one.
I'm glad we have 1 more pro progress people around. Please hang in there and please don't migrate, we need more of you around in Singapore. :cheers1:
I don't understand how 6 foreigner worker can support 1 retiree? R retiree getting any pension or support from the government? R the government paying for all the medical bill? Bullshit.. U r asking 6 foreigner worker to come and push down the salary of the 2 adult children supporting one retiree... Hahaha..
But hor, if the immigrants are mostly people who do the jobs that most Singaporeans don't want to do ( eg in construction sites, nursing), they dont really push down wages of the average Singaporean so much. In fact, it will help keep construction cost and medical costs contained. Of course there will be Singaporeans who fall thru the cracks becos they are in same sector as these foreigners, and I hope the govt will do something to ensure they are not left behind. Many of these are respectable jobs but it's unfortunate they are thankless jobs that Singaporeans tend to shun.
I find tt usu e more we whine, e more we get to eat bitter medicine later. I have decided to stay more positive n look for opportunities ahead. Pop will def grow, Singapore will def get more crowded n expensive, it is juz a matter of time but within our life time. Juz try harder now to make life easier for urself later.
Really feel insecure about the future of our country, not because our leaders are not making things right all the time, but the growing grumpiness of the complain kings and queens who prefer to savour on instant gratification. Just feel strange about this group of people who are just so anti-pro that no matter how good the pro is, they are simply unsatisfied (as if they have better solution). Everybody on the streets errs sometimes, let alone be our leaders. They are doing their best, couldnt think of any who can do better. As long as the infrastructure, land usage and facility issues are put right, there shouldnt be much issue about having more people. The fact that people here are mostly employed in our natural resource-scarce country is the attraction of foreign setups that create more jobs. Couldnt imagine what will happen if all these foreign companies pack their bags and go. Guess these people who complain will be left jobless, and of course never failing to raise their complaining decibel, ha and never knowing they are smacking themselves on their face. I love a vibrant and energetic country, not a dull and greying one.
:cheers4: :cheers4: lazy to type using iPad so shortcut.... Precisely nobody is perfect
I'm glad we have 1 more pro progress people around. Please hang in there and please don't migrate, we need more of you around in Singapore. :cheers1:
more concrete jungle, less green, stagnating wages for the middle income and below, widening income gap, traffic jams on the road, sardine packed public transport... all these are progress?
i think your definition of 'progress' is perverse. More like regression to me.
more concrete jungle, less green, stagnating wages for the middle income and below, widening income gap, traffic jams on the road, sardine packed public transport... all these are progress?
i think your definition of 'progress' is perverse. More like regression to me.
More concrete jungle? That''s development. Compare to the other cities we have the highest densities of greenery in a city state. Unless ur idea of progress is to live in Mandai?
Stagnating wages? Wages been growing. Excess wage growth without increase in value of skill set increase inflation. which have a net effect on wage increase.
Widening income gap? where? Its a meritocratic system. u work harder n smarter on higher value job u get paid more. stick to simple task u are worth less get paid less. whats there to complain? less stress less pay then.
Traffic jams on roads ? that to me I see it wage have improved more people are able to afford cars. Causing a growth in car population.
Pack Trains ? i guess u never try japan / NY trains before? or HK trains before during peak hours? Or even Bangkok? This is city living. at least u are not shoved into the train like in japan.
Want to live in Mandai jungle , take a empty bus home on a road without cars and everyone don't have wage concerns? hmm want to try north korea perhaps?
more concrete jungle, less green, stagnating wages for the middle income and below, widening income gap, traffic jams on the road, sardine packed public transport... all these are progress?
i think your definition of 'progress' is perverse. More like regression to me.
I have a suggestion for you. follow Richard Bronson buy ur own island. solve all ur complains. Opps... u need to work hard 1st to build a empire... forgot....
easier to just complain.
http://www.privateislandsmag.com/wp-content/gallery/celebrities/necker-island.jpg
more concrete jungle, less green, stagnating wages for the middle income and below, widening income gap, traffic jams on the road, sardine packed public transport... all these are progress?
i think your definition of 'progress' is perverse. More like regression to me.
To many dumb dumb,
PROGRESS = High salary ($10k per mth)
+ $50k HDB (prime area, mrt downstair, high floor, unblocked view)
+ less foreigner (who the fk do the cleaning of your rubbish chute, sweep the road, trim grass, build house, service your dick, clear the table etc)
+ $50 per mth childcare of montesori standard
+ every child study in SAP sch, free overseas trip every year
+ $8 hospital bill regardless of operations and has to be Mt E standard (who the fk clean your shit and urine if dont want foreigner?)
+ 1 car per household (best is per adult, each at cost price), but dont want traffic jams (WTF? Cukookoo?)
If can find such a place on earth please let everyone know!
.....
Stagnating wages? Wages been growing. Excess wage growth without increase in value of skill set increase inflation. which have a net effect on wage increase.
.....
how do you address the issue of affordability? like the increase in house prices outstripping the the increase in wages?
lets compare 1990/2000 to 2010. would more citizens prefer to live in 1990/2000 or 2010?
To many dumb dumb,
PROGRESS = High salary ($10k per mth)
+ $50k HDB (prime area, mrt downstair, high floor, unblocked view)
+ less foreigner (who the fk do the cleaning of your rubbish chute, sweep the road, trim grass, build house, service your dick, clear the table etc)
+ $50 per mth childcare of montesori standard
+ every child study in SAP sch, free overseas trip every year
+ $8 hospital bill regardless of operations and has to be Mt E standard (who the fk clean your shit and urine if dont want foreigner?)
+ 1 car per household (best is per adult, each at cost price), but dont want traffic jams (WTF? Cukookoo?)
If can find such a place on earth please let everyone know!
wat!!! 10K salary only!!!!! so little!
I have a suggestion for you. follow Richard Bronson buy ur own island. solve all ur complains. Opps... u need to work hard 1st to build a empire... forgot....
easier to just complain.
http://www.privateislandsmag.com/wp-content/gallery/celebrities/necker-island.jpg
i know who is charles bronson, but who is richard bronson? lol
hopefully u are also not reading your road map upside down.
wat!!! 10K salary only!!!!! so little!
Oh yah, maybe $100k per mth? And also no inflation please, keep the price of food cheap cheap. Best is chicken rice maintain at $1, coffee maintain at 50ct, and so on...
how do you address the issue of affordability? like the increase in house prices outstripping the the increase in wages?
lets compare 1990/2000 to 2010. would more citizens prefer to live in 1990/2000 or 2010?
lets compare.. HDB
2000 a 5 room flat is 220K ( i paid this price)
2013 a 5 room is 334K ( not considering other subsidy for applicant)
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/Hougang+ParkEdge+BTO+review/
Thats works out to be about 3.9% increase per year. Thats is inline with most inflation per yer. avg 3-4%
So to me its still very much affordable.
in 2000 a fresh grad pay is $1800per mth
today ? lets look at 2012 a fres grad is asking $2.9K . Thats is also ard 4% avg per year increase.
take a further look at data Top 100 jobs. lowest ~5Kpm.
http://www.salary.sg/
from the bottom 10.
Quantity surveyor $5,200
Network/ Computer systems administrator $5,180
Human resource consultant (excluding executive search consultant) $5,173
Industrial and production engineer $5,100
Book editor $5,075
Catering services manager $5,050
Application/ Systems programmer $5,023
Petroleum/ Natural gas engineer $4,955
Chemist $4,945
Information technology testing/ quality assurance specialist $4,800
Ships engineer $4,765
So I dont see any affordability issue.
lets look further. a 334K home. per mth how much installment to pay ? at 30ys work out to be ard 1200pm, a working couple with similar income. CPF can cover. so u are telling affordability issue?
unless u are telling me the guy sit at home dont work. or u want to tell me not everyone is a grad!
ok there are also 3 room flats too. which is 165K! so tell me how un affordable is that? unless u want to tell me last time my ah ma bought her house only 8K!!! then I have nothing to say.
that time eat noodle 1 bowl also 50c only. cilvil servant pay is $200 pm. Police wear shorts.
I have no intention of coming across rude. but I am just cheese off at people ( not u) jumping up n down screaming HDB 1M not affordable. blah blah blah.. fact is there are affordable HDB.
There are more 5room flat bto applicants than 4room flat. I think either buyers are getting too greedy and/or bto is too affordable.
There are more 5room flat bto applicants than 4room flat. I think either buyers are getting too greedy and/or bto is too affordable.
its affordable lah. and most people know if they dont get a bigger unit later very hard to get a bigger unit.
lets compare.. HDB
2000 a 5 room flat is 220K ( i paid this price)
2013 a 5 room is 334K ( not considering other subsidy for applicant)
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/Hougang+ParkEdge+BTO+review/
Thats works out to be about 3.9% increase per year. Thats is inline with most inflation per yer. avg 3-4%
So to me its still very much affordable.
in 2000 a fresh grad pay is $1800per mth
today ? lets look at 2012 a fres grad is asking $2.9K . Thats is also ard 4% avg per year increase.
take a further look at data Top 100 jobs. lowest ~5Kpm.
http://www.salary.sg/
from the bottom 10.
Quantity surveyor $5,200
Network/ Computer systems administrator $5,180
Human resource consultant (excluding executive search consultant) $5,173
Industrial and production engineer $5,100
Book editor $5,075
Catering services manager $5,050
Application/ Systems programmer $5,023
Petroleum/ Natural gas engineer $4,955
Chemist $4,945
Information technology testing/ quality assurance specialist $4,800
Ships engineer $4,765
So I dont see any affordability issue.
lets look further. a 334K home. per mth how much installment to pay ? at 30ys work out to be ard 1200pm, a working couple with similar income. CPF can cover. so u are telling affordability issue?
unless u are telling me the guy sit at home dont work. or u want to tell me not everyone is a grad!
ok there are also 3 room flats too. which is 165K! so tell me how un affordable is that? unless u want to tell me last time my ah ma bought her house only 8K!!! then I have nothing to say.
that time eat noodle 1 bowl also 50c only. cilvil servant pay is $200 pm. Police wear shorts.
I have no intention of coming across rude. but I am just cheese off at people ( not u) jumping up n down screaming HDB 1M not affordable. blah blah blah.. fact is there are affordable HDB.
Brother Minority, you got it wrong again! $334k hdb? Where? These punks want it at Pinnacle there or queenstown, next to mrt station afew stops to cbd. They want high floor unblocked view all the way to batam or jb. They want $1m hdb at $50k deh! They Can consider gettong a one bedder at buangkok IMH.
The govt should just treat PR same as foreigner lah! :p
Really, PR and foreigner don't take Singapore passport & IC, so no different right? :D
exactly
i have spoken with many PRs .... almost 9/10 said they wud return to their home country ...
so to make this plan work ... they govt shud only give out citizenship and not PR so easily ...
as to whos going to look after the aged ... cant depend on the younger generations...
it all boils down to up bringing again ...
try as we may to impart that sense of taking care of the older ones ...... unfortunately the govt is not doing their part ...
todate they have never given any FREE to the oder generation ...
whats the point of that stupid dinner at community center and an ang pow ???
these old folks are happy only for that moment ...
No sure lei, but if they only target 6.9m that is stupid. I say we should have 12m... :p
does any pro 6.9million supporters agree that 6.9 million is not the final figure?
as long TFR is below 2.1, population is greying.
soon it will be 8mil , then 10mil.
it will be a geometric rise in population growth.
lets say 6 worker to support 1 retiree.
down the years, we need 36 workers to support the original 6 worker retiring.
i do agree with naysayers from TRE that TFR is the problem.
No sure lei, but if they only target 6.9m that is stupid. I say we should have 12m... :p
Hopful also assume no 1 dies?
perhaps thats why we have a segment of PR and Foreigners . which we can trade in to constantly keep them young!
The govt should just split all job sectors into 2 categories:
1) Businesses and jobs that cannot be shifted out of Singapore
2) Businesses and jobs that can be shifted out of Singapore
For category (1) (e.g. retail shops, restaurants, hospitals, govt stat boards & GLCs, etc), priority must be given to employing singapore citizens. If the boss not happy never mind, they can close shop lor, somebody will take over their business since they earn local money and can't move out of singapore to make money from locals right?
For (2), no restriction (since if you don't let them free hand to employ they can move out mah).
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/cap-population-6m-says-nmp-laurence-lien-20130207
Growth could be supported instead by better restructuring efforts to bring in higher-skilled firms and labour, to use the reserves to invest in strategic industries and to make use of Singaporeans' savings "to maintain economic vitality".
"I am having a major disconnect. How did we go from fearing ageing and depopulation to having a potential population explosion? Where does this dependence on growing GDP (gross domestic product) through increased immigration end?" he said in Parliament on the fourth day of the debate.
The goals of raising productivity and slowing down workforce growth gave a sense of deja vu, he pointed out, as they were same targets set exactly 10 years ago by the then-government's Economic Review Committee, as he questioned whether the Government is really serious about moderating foreign workforce growth.
Companies are still addicted to cheap, less-skilled foreign labour, and need "restructuring, or rehabilitation, not more drugs", he said.
There are more 5room flat bto applicants than 4room flat. I think either buyers are getting too greedy and/or bto is too affordable.
is it because the present flat sizes are smaller than the old flat sizes? hence a 5 room flat today is same as 4room flat yesterday?
Regulators
07-02-13, 23:11
I think you can go into damnation yourself and leave all the other singaporeans alone
If even that we have to depend on government to impart. indeed as a generation of sgpean we are doomed.
I think you can go into damnation yourself and leave all the other singaporeans alone
with wood head like u ard we are indeed in a very dense part of the woods.
Regulators
07-02-13, 23:15
the problem with you is you feel like dying and want to drag everyone with you, why leh? scared to die alone ah? if scared then why keep talking about dying, suffering and doom? I think you are a very pathetic creature. :doh:
with wood head like u ard we are indeed in a very dense part of the woods.
the problem with you is you feel like dying and want to drag everyone with you, why leh? scared to die alone ah? if scared then why keep talking about dying, suffering and doom? I think you are a very pathetic creature. :doh:
HAH HAH HAH... i have no idea wat you are mumbling abt. dead wood...
I cant help it if you are too dense to understand anything.
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