View Full Version : 6.9 million population a worst case scenario: Khaw *
http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-story/population-paper/story/69-million-population-worst-case-scenario-khaw-20130201
The projected population figure of 6.9 million by 2030 is a worst case scenario, and it is hoped that the actual figure would be much lower, said National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan on Friday.
On his blog, he said the two papers released earlier this week - the Population White Paper and Land Use Plan - were about the quality of lives people lead here, even as the nation shifts into its next phase of development.
"Having met basic needs, our people are rightly yearning for a better quality of life: a more meaningful life, a better work-life balance, a smarter working life with quality time for family, leisure, friends, arts and sports," he said.
This is why the government has planned for the long term, and has anticipated challenges this way, in a bid to ensure future generations do not suffer. "That will be irresponsible, and that is not our style," he added.
But he acknowledged that problems don't solve themselves overnight. An MRT line, for instance, takes more than 10 years to build.
Hence the only way the government can cover all bases, is to plan for an aggressive projection of 6.9 million. "This way we will not be caught under-providing, as we are experiencing currently," he said.
"We may never reach that figure. But as planners, we have to ensure that the infrastructure could accommodate such a figure, if need be," he said.
The documents will be tabled to be debated in Parliament next week.
http://m.todayonline.com/singapore/hope-we-do-not-reach-69-million-minister-khaw
SINGAPORE — The Government hopes that the country does not reach the population estimate of 6.9 million by 2030, National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan said in a blog post yesterday.
Stressing that the White Paper on population that was released on Tuesday was “not a forecast or a target”, Mr Khaw said it “simply states the assumptions going forward, based on certain set of productivity and workforce growth rates”.
For planning purposes, however, Mr Khaw said “it is safer to take the more aggressive projection” and plan infrastructural needs accordingly. “This way we will not be caught under-providing, as we are experiencing currently,” he added.
Reiterating that the 6.9 million figure should be viewed as “the worst-case scenario”, Mr Khaw wrote: “We hope we do not reach that figure; we may never reach that figure. But as planners, we have to ensure that the infrastructure could accommodate such a figure, if need be. Our hope is that the actual figure would turn out to be much lower.”
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said yesterday he fully agrees with Mr Khaw’s explanation that a 6.9 million population is not a target, but just a worst-case, aggressive scenario the Government must prepare for.
In a Facebook post, Mr Lee said the Government needs to plan consciously and responsibly for the future, so that Singaporeans can continue to enjoy a good quality of life and that Singapore continues to thrive.
Many Singaporeans had reacted with surprise at the population projection contained in the White Paper, with several wondering whether the country can cope with the 30-per-cent increase.
Yesterday, three Opposition parties — the Democratic Progressive Party, the National Solidarity Party and the Reform Party — criticised the White Paper and questioned some assumptions behind the population projection.
On Monday, Parliament will debate the Government’s White Paper and the National Development Ministry’s Land Use Plan, which details how a 6.9 million population will fit. Deputy Prime Minister Teo Chee Hean will ask the House to endorse the two papers.
While the two papers contained “many pages, many statistics”, Mr Khaw said they are not just about numbers, but rather about striving for a “quality living environment” in Singapore’s next phase of development.
That is why the reports are published, as the demographic challenges of a shrinking and ageing population confronting Singapore “are severe”, said Mr Khaw. “If they are not dealt with properly, our children will suffer. We cannot simply pretend they do not exist. We cannot ignore them and pass the problem to the future generation for them to deal with. That will be irresponsible, and that is not our style,” he added.
Mr Khaw, however, noted that solutions “require long lead time to implement”. For example, an MRT line takes more than 10 years to build, he said.
But to build infrastructure ahead of demand, the Government needs some planning assumption, and “a key assumption” is the projected population size.
“Are you planning for five million, six million, or what? Actually, we cannot be sure. So many things can happen between now and 2030. But we still need to plan, and invest,” Mr Khaw said.
:scared-4: :scared-4: :scared-4: :scared-4:
http://m.todayonline.com/singapore/hope-we-do-not-reach-69-million-minister-khaw
SINGAPORE — The Government hopes that the country does not reach the population estimate of 6.9 million by 2030, National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan said in a blog post yesterday."
......
always beware of government double speak.
KBW should have said "does not exceed the population estimate of 6.9million by 2030"
just like dont come 200meter within polling station, inside polling station is different from 200meter within polling station :).
by his remark, population will exceed 6.9million.
http://mndsingapore.wordpress.com/2013/02/01/prepare-for-the-worst-hope-for-the-best/
Title: Prepare for the worst, hope for the best
:doh: :doh: :doh:
So comforting :rolleyes:
Can someone copy and paste his blog post? I can't seem to do that on mobile. Thanks
phantom_opera
02-02-13, 10:12
it is very simple, PAP tries to boost productivity, if that fails, immigration ... :banghead:
Wild Falcon
02-02-13, 12:19
Everything is within their control. After all, they are the ones who open up the fldgates for new immigrants. If 6.9 is worst case then takein less and create best case. We don't vote in govt to create worst case.
Singapore is already the most congested country in the world with 10.2k people per km. Today te disgusting straits times massage numbers and take away the hilly and forested land in HK and say HK is worse. Hello? HK population density only 6k per sq km. Those hilly and forested land is still land the locals can use for trekking and recreation and part of quality of life. Why should those natural areas in HK be excluded
in computing density?
Everything is within their control. After all, they are the ones who open up the fldgates for new immigrants. If 6.9 is worst case then takein less and create best case. We don't vote in govt to create worst case.
Singapore is already the most congested country in the world with 10.2k people per km. Today te disgusting straits times massage numbers and take away the hilly and forested land in HK and say HK is worse. Hello? HK population density only 6k per sq km. Those hilly and forested land is still land the locals can use for trekking and recreation and part of quality of life. Why should those natural areas in HK be excluded
in computing density?
Yah loh, HK only the city center is crowded. There are so much open space parklands in new territories and lantau lsland. :)
In 1980s, I bought a book called "Singapore Today". The long term target of the Govt has always been 8 million as stated in the book if I did not remember wrongly, for domestic demand strength and self sustainability. I always remember because every time I tell people the figure, nobody believes me.
Don't be alarmed by 6.9 million. That had never been the target.
phantom_opera
02-02-13, 15:25
Without population Inc how to flip Ccr properties he he he
In 1980s, I bought a book called "Singapore Today". The long term target of the Govt has always been 8 million as stated in the book if I did not remember wrongly, for domestic demand strength and self sustainability. I always remember because every time I tell people the figure, nobody believes me.
Don't be alarmed by 6.9 million. That had never been the target.
Agree. The future of Sg is to be able to stay ahead or alongside with the likes of big cities like that of NY, London, of west. Our competition here is with HK, KL, jkt, Tokyo, Shanghai, Guangzhou. ESP for talents to bring in the Biz. There is a critical mass needed to be there. Could be minimal 7-8 mil. cities like Shanghai, Jkt have more than 12 mil people during weekday & shrinking to about 9-10 mil by weekend. That could be the numbers to look at.
In 1980s, I bought a book called "Singapore Today". The long term target of the Govt has always been 8 million as stated in the book if I did not remember wrongly, for domestic demand strength and self sustainability. I always remember because every time I tell people the figure, nobody believes me.
Don't be alarmed by 6.9 million. That had never been the target.
do you still have the book?
if the target population is 8million, why still have "stop at 2" in the early 80s?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1kcpo0K8EZE/UQdSZqUMs9I/AAAAAAAAEqY/jtxl8L-U7M8/s1600/8thmilllion.jpg
Quite nice
http://seijieiga.blogspot.com
maybe u should have another comic. island all old people. anyone fancy living in a old folks home?
come 2060. whole island is 1 big old folks home.
Sure it wont be crowded.. coz all expiring.
maybe u should have another comic. island all old people. anyone fancy living in a old folks home?
come 2060. whole island is 1 big old folks home.
Sure it wont be crowded.. coz all expiring.
Haha hope you have lightened up. It's a faceless forum, man. ;) have a blessed Sunday.
If reach 6.9mil, my greater concern is half foreigners. A country with such a scenario would not have her own unique identity. Sigh!
Govt should do something drastic but successful. For eg, every third and fourth child in a family will have free education and family will get an MPV from MND along with a bonus of S$180k and S$280k respectively given over next 18 years so less concern for the ever rising cost of living. Singapore population will explode in next 10 years. Target people are those already with 2 or 3 kids. If got 100k third child and 100k fourth child over next 10 years, Singapore govt only spend about 60mil over 18 years. Cheap and effective. By 2030, got additional 400k citizens automatically.
For those with no kids, implement something else. Like that we'll reach 6.9mil without opening too many floodgates. Lol...
If reach 6.9mil, my greater concern is half foreigners. A country with such a scenario would not have her own unique identity. Sigh!
Govt should do something drastic but successful. For eg, every third and fourth child in a family will have free education and family will get an MPV from MND along with a bonus of S$180k and S$280k respectively given over next 18 years so less concern for the ever rising cost of living. Singapore population will explode in next 10 years. Target people are those already with 2 or 3 kids. If got 100k third child and 100k fourth child over next 10 years, Singapore govt only spend about 60mil over 18 years. Cheap and effective. By 2030, got additional 400k citizens automatically.
For those with no kids, implement something else. Like that we'll reach 6.9mil without opening too many floodgates. Lol...
sorry, wont be acceptable. in time, minority will become majority.
Yah loh, HK only the city center is crowded. There are so much open space parklands in new territories and lantau lsland. :)
u can go kusu island or ubin also. :D
"The Government hopes that the country does not reach the population estimate of 6.9 million by 2030, National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan said in a blog post yesterday."
he never say that they will not reach 6.9m by 2031? or 6.8m by 2030? aiya... anything is up to them to say. if it was really meant to be an overprojection, they should have SAID SO in the initial press release, not wait for reactions before coming up with excuse. they just trying to pacify us after the outlash.
when the time comes, they can say all they like. GE2016, 2021, 2026 already gone by. chill guys. nothing much we can do. just work hard, invest hard and enjoy the fruits of our labour when that time comes.
sorry, wont be acceptable. in time, minority will become majority.You mean the forummer minority? :D
Haha hope you have lightened up. It's a faceless forum, man. ;) have a blessed Sunday.
U2 have a good 1! ;)
If reach 6.9mil, my greater concern is half foreigners. A country with such a scenario would not have her own unique identity. Sigh!
Govt should do something drastic but successful. For eg, every third and fourth child in a family will have free education and family will get an MPV from MND along with a bonus of S$180k and S$280k respectively given over next 18 years so less concern for the ever rising cost of living. Singapore population will explode in next 10 years. Target people are those already with 2 or 3 kids. If got 100k third child and 100k fourth child over next 10 years, Singapore govt only spend about 60mil over 18 years. Cheap and effective. By 2030, got additional 400k citizens automatically.
For those with no kids, implement something else. Like that we'll reach 6.9mil without opening too many floodgates. Lol...
Nope won't work it's not abt $$ it's lifestyle. N the life style do not include kids.
I guess u forgot we are all decendents of immigrants ? If that's the case we are all foreigners . The real locals are the indeginous malays then!
Currently, the land size of Singapore is 714 sq km. In 2030, the size of Singapore should increase to 766 sq km. Assuming that land reclaimation will continue after 2030, the size of Singapore should exceed 800 sq km by 2050 or earlier.
Currently, the population of Singapore is 5.3 million. By 2030, the population should reach 7 million. After 2030 I am sure the PAP government will want to increase it to 10 or even 12 million.
Assuming the plot ratio of all HDB land will be increased from the current 2.8 to 4.3, Singapore should be able to add more than 550000 new homes by redevelopment of existing HDB flats through SERS.
KBW also mentioned that some Singaporeans can stay and work in underground homes. Can Singapore accommodate more than 10 million people? What is the ideal population size for Singapore?
:confused:
Nope won't work it's not abt $$ it's lifestyle. N the life style do not include kids.
I guess u forgot we are all decendents of immigrants ? If that's the case we are all foreigners . The real locals are the indeginous malays then!Yup.... what makes you think I'm not the descendent of the malays then.. Lol.. well, a recent survey did suggest that many young couples want kids. Anyway, I'm not referring to lifestyles with or without kids. Its one of those carrots that govt likes throwing out periodically. I'm referring to the need for govt to do something drastic. You won't know it won't work till you've tried it. :cheers5:
You mean the forummer minority? :D
given such incentives, a particular minority race will become majority race.
even at their current (and lower) economic levels, the minority race are already outproducing the majority race. if given the same incentives to reproduce as the majority race, their fertility rate would even be much higher.
given such incentives, a particular minority race will become majority race.
even at their current (and lower) economic levels, the minority race are already outproducing the majority race. if given the same incentives to reproduce as the majority race, their fertility rate would even be much higher.
yes, in indo, the chinese community is shrinking. there are a lot of inter racial marriages.
given such incentives, a particular minority race will become majority race.
even at their current (and lower) economic levels, the minority race are already outproducing the majority race. if given the same incentives to reproduce as the majority race, their fertility rate would even be much higher.
tat is why certain measures like income tax rebates will favour the higher income vs the lower income.
aiyo ah khaw said is worst case scenario mah. if all plan goes well by 2030 for 6.9m but the target population not achieved. isnt it nice to have a 6.9m space with only maybe 6m population....:D
aiyo ah khaw said is worst case scenario mah. if all plan goes well by 2030 for 6.9m but the target population not achieved. isnt it nice to have a 6.9m space with only maybe 6m population....:D
the thing is, nobody has mentioned what is best case scenario.
if KBW mentioned 6.5m is best case, and realised only 6.2m, the result is "better than best" scenario or "worse" scenario?
if infrastructure 6.9m and population only 6m, who is going to pay for the additional infrastructure?
and if 700k homes built, only 500k occupied or rented, disaster.
the thing is, nobody has mentioned what is best case scenario.
if KBW mentioned 6.5m is best case, and realised only 6.2m, the result is "better than best" scenario or "worse" scenario?
if infrastructure 6.9m and population only 6m, who is going to pay for the additional infrastructure?
and if 700k homes built, only 500k occupied or rented, disaster.
Why disaster? People want cheap house. Crach got cheap house why disaster? Good! It means we have arrested the problem!
the thing is, nobody has mentioned what is best case scenario.
if KBW mentioned 6.5m is best case, and realised only 6.2m, the result is "better than best" scenario or "worse" scenario?
if infrastructure 6.9m and population only 6m, who is going to pay for the additional infrastructure?
and if 700k homes built, only 500k occupied or rented, disaster.
infrastucture definitely need to cater for 6.9m but housing can be build according to the intake flow. importantly is the infrastructure since this is the area that was lacking
u can go kusu island or ubin also. :D
Even the southern islands are not spared from developments. :tsk-tsk: What used to be crystal clear waters around there now is just muddy waters after all the reclamation and fillings.
:mad:
infrastucture definitely need to cater for 6.9m but housing can be build according to the intake flow. importantly is the infrastructure since this is the area that was lacking
talk of infrastructure sparked something. electricity.
http://www.ema.gov.sg/reports/id:72/
installed capacity is 10.000MW ++
peak demand is 6.600MW.or about 1.2kW per person.
so population hits 8 million people would still not be a problem, about 9.600MW.
why government build so much spare capacity in power generation? unless they already planned for 7 million population way earlier?
housing is 3-4 years lead time.
mrt is 8-10 years lead time.
bus is 0 years lead time?
water?
sanitation?
electricity?
there was discussion in skyscrapercity, very hard to deal with peak demand for transport.
talk of infrastructure sparked something. electricity.
http://www.ema.gov.sg/reports/id:72/
installed capacity is 10.000MW ++
peak demand is 6.600MW.or about 1.2kW per person.
so population hits 8 million people would still not be a problem, about 9.600MW.
why government build so much spare capacity in power generation? unless they already planned for 7 million population way earlier?
housing is 3-4 years lead time.
mrt is 8-10 years lead time.
bus is 0 years lead time?
water?
sanitation?
electricity?
there was discussion in skyscrapercity, very hard to deal with peak demand for transport.
this was mooted a few years ago when they sold off power assets to private entities. extra power was expected to cater for future industrial usage, with excess being sold to neighbouring countries (of course, the latter failed to materialize)
this was mooted a few years ago when they sold off power assets to private entities. extra power was expected to cater for future industrial usage, with excess being sold to neighbouring countries (of course, the latter failed to materialize)
1) why would any country want to be held hostage?
even singapore doesnt want to be held hostage by water supplies.
2) cater for future industrial usage? looks like they underplan for housing and transport, overplan for industrial growth? hindsight 20/20.
1) why would any country want to be held hostage?
even singapore doesnt want to be held hostage by water supplies.
2) cater for future industrial usage? looks like they underplan for housing and transport, overplan for industrial growth? hindsight 20/20.
the plan was to generate revenue, as in singapore selling excess power off to neighbouring countries. well, it works in the US (but that's across states).
Even the southern islands are not spared from developments. :tsk-tsk: What used to be crystal clear waters around there now is just muddy waters after all the reclamation and fillings.
:mad:
look at sentosa n sgp section. after reclaim water is clean and grennish blue. its ok.
1) why would any country want to be held hostage?
even singapore doesnt want to be held hostage by water supplies.
2) cater for future industrial usage? looks like they underplan for housing and transport, overplan for industrial growth? hindsight 20/20.
well different times different needs. earlier days started out as putting bread on table. Hand to mouth...
now everyone have big fish big meat on table everyday full watch 3D HD movies. Now start to question why need? we are always full and never hungry anyway.
if we lack foresight then there will be no hindsight either.
given such incentives, a particular minority race will become majority race.
even at their current (and lower) economic levels, the minority race are already outproducing the majority race. if given the same incentives to reproduce as the majority race, their fertility rate would even be much higher.That I have to agree... :p
aiyo ah khaw said is worst case scenario mah. if all plan goes well by 2030 for 6.9m but the target population not achieved. isnt it nice to have a 6.9m space with only maybe 6m population....:DDO not be taken by the words 'worst case scenario'. Its the right words to calm the angry audience. Worst case means it will eventually happen if no other stimuli come along to tweak the situation... :rolleyes:
aiyo ah khaw said is worst case scenario mah. if all plan goes well by 2030 for 6.9m but the target population not achieved. isnt it nice to have a 6.9m space with only maybe 6m population....:D
Believe me, if they say 6.9m in 2030. the target will be achieve earlier rather then later. maybe 2020 worst case scenario, haha:cool:
KenoBiWan is BS-ing. after the vociferous backlash, the govt now U-turns to say it isn't a target.
If it isn't a target, why bother to expend the effort to come up with a white paper?! for planning - PUUTTTIIII. a white paper isn't needed for planning.
now DPM endorses the white paper :doh: :doh: just like snakes, twisting and turning
6.9M I dont see whats the problem. The bigger problem would be higher taxation, less work opportunities and a less competitiveness in future for our children.
All major cities are scaling up the population. And with 6.9M or more people we would have better economical scale. I don't see why people cannot accept having old folks home in their back yard can accept a population that is 75% old people in the future. Coz Singapore will be a island of old people.
To keep the city going and economy moving we need to have a rejuvenation program. Either we have more kids or just top it up.
Having more kids is a mind set, lift style change. its not just about $. So its not a simple change in $ policy will help.
How many Woman in Singapore want to go back become house wives?
So to me FACT: no matter 5.9,6.5,6.9 wat ever no. Singapore generation currently is shrinking. Doing nothing it not going to help us or our next generation. Increasing core population didn't work. so import some as citizens and keep some for economy as support is a valid idea. Dont forget our for fathers/mothers are also immigrants. So what make us more special then the new citizens? Becoz we are here 1st ? at this rate we will be the last here too.
If not we will likely go down in history as the next EASTER island with bunch of statues left standing.
http://www.bestourism.com/img/items/big/973/Easter-Island_Moai-Stone-Statues_3642.jpg
KenoBiWan is BS-ing. after the vociferous backlash, the govt now U-turns to say it isn't a target.
If it isn't a target, why bother to expend the effort to come up with a white paper?! for planning - PUUTTTIIII. a white paper isn't needed for planning.
now DPM endorses the white paper :doh: :doh: just like snakes, twisting and turning
exactly. if it was 6.5-6.9, and if it was not the "target" but the infrastructure planning, then say so upfront!!! 马后炮. after all the backlash, then come up with excuses. these guys really need to do more marketing and PR. that's what you get when u have a whole lot of civil servants sitting there. send in some marketing experts, you see the difference.
exactly. if it was 6.5-6.9, and if it was not the "target" but the infrastructure planning, then say so upfront!!! 马后炮. after all the backlash, then come up with excuses. these guys really need to do more marketing and PR. that's what you get when u have a whole lot of civil servants sitting there. send in some marketing experts, you see the difference.
Aiyah its a PR disaster. The old man still ard he will tell all to Fxxx off. end of discussion. but with this new generation this dont work. they try to show they listen to the feedback but people accuse them of back paddle.
So to me nothing they do will ever be right when people view and critic with a pre judged mentality. They are wrong already even before open their mouth.
Tell the people and debate people accuse that they are wrong. Don''t tell the people and execute they get branded as iron fist.
Its a shit job.
Singapore is degenerating because of a bunch of mis-guideded policies, starting from 2005...
Aiyah its a PR disaster. The old man still ard he will tell all to Fxxx off. end of discussion. but with this new generation this dont work. they try to show they listen to the feedback but people accuse them of back paddle.
So to me nothing they do will ever be right when people view and critic with a pre judged mentality. They are wrong already even before open their mouth.
Tell the people and debate people accuse that they are wrong. Don''t tell the people and execute they get branded as iron fist.
Its a shit job.
Totally agree dude. To play popular the miw could have raid the reserves to give lots of welfare to the people, but they dont. They could have wash hand on the population thing and pack up to migrate 10yrs down the road, but they dont and help plan for the future. Like that also wacked.
The opp voice getting too ridiculous. Anything and everytging they will want to polticalise. Wat the sh##. E.g the tampines accident invovling two boys, the opp voice start to blame LTA, foreign driver and end up the gov kena wacked. F&N took over, also pull out article about it being poorly managed no to full potential tat is why a good takeover, Old lee second son the chairman kena, then end up the miw kena also. Wat the sh##
治标不治本. This problem will resurface with even bigger issue. Due to jobs security reason etc, SC population will shrink even further.
Which group of ppl they are going to bring in. Think !!!
Some companies (which i will not quote), having 4(SC) : 6 (F) ratio few years back and now a 2(SC) : 8 (F).
Aiyah its a PR disaster. The old man still ard he will tell all to Fxxx off. end of discussion. but with this new generation this dont work. they try to show they listen to the feedback but people accuse them of back paddle.
Its a shit job.
old man's method will no longer work in today's era with new media and a much more mobile younger generation.
having said all of the above, i agree it's a shit job. but give me a shit job with 1m pay anytime. i will take it.
Aiyah its a PR disaster. The old man still ard he will tell all to Fxxx off. end of discussion. but with this new generation this dont work. they try to show they listen to the feedback but people accuse them of back paddle.
So to me nothing they do will ever be right when people view and critic with a pre judged mentality. They are wrong already even before open their mouth.
Tell the people and debate people accuse that they are wrong. Don''t tell the people and execute they get branded as iron fist.
Its a shit job.
I think the white paper is a disaster. Now MIW is fire-fighting.
me is sibei sian
really must buy $400-500k BTO flat meh?:beats-me-man:
don't see to have any other route:o
6.9M I dont see whats the problem. The bigger problem would be higher taxation, less work opportunities and a less competitiveness in future for our children.
All major cities are scaling up the population. And with 6.9M or more people we would have better economical scale. I don't see why people cannot accept having old folks home in their back yard can accept a population that is 75% old people in the future. Coz Singapore will be a island of old people.
To keep the city going and economy moving we need to have a rejuvenation program. Either we have more kids or just top it up.
Having more kids is a mind set, lift style change. its not just about $. So its not a simple change in $ policy will help.
How many Woman in Singapore want to go back become house wives?
So to me FACT: no matter 5.9,6.5,6.9 wat ever no. Singapore generation currently is shrinking. Doing nothing it not going to help us or our next generation. Increasing core population didn't work. so import some as citizens and keep some for economy as support is a valid idea. Dont forget our for fathers/mothers are also immigrants. So what make us more special then the new citizens? Becoz we are here 1st ? at this rate we will be the last here too.
If not we will likely go down in history as the next EASTER island with bunch of statues left standing.
agree. when native population continue to shrink we have to do something or Singapore will be "extinct". Maybe taken over by neighbouring country and Singapore will become a "protected city" and be one of tourist spot. tats why i always say our opp task is only to go against the govt. is the easiest job in this world. every policy from govt, they oppose. tats our opposition. they never come out with any good suggestion. is a hopeless party but they always have simple-minded followers....sigh....just like city harvest followers who still think tat kong hee's action is for god's sake!!!
agree. when native population continue to shrink we have to do something or Singapore will be "extinct". Maybe taken over by neighbouring country and Singapore will become a "protected city" and be one of tourist spot. tats why i always say our opp task is only to go against the govt. is the easiest job in this world. every policy from govt, they oppose. tats our opposition. they never come out with any good suggestion. is a hopeless party but they always have simple-minded followers....sigh....just like city harvest followers who still think tat kong hee's action is for god's sake!!!
I have lost faith in the opposition parties. Not much concrete initiatives from them after the GE.
I have lost faith in the opposition parties. Not much concrete initiatives from them after the GE.
they are shit party to me. only know how to stir SHIT!!!! is the easier job to find fault in any policy. white paper say 6.9 they say 5.9, if whiter paper say 5.9 they will say 4.9 is better :doh:
i do agree the opp party is paper tiger... can't do much ..
sianz
me is sibei sian
really must buy $400-500k BTO flat meh?:beats-me-man:
don't see to have any other route:o
I know ur dream buy a BTO at $100K but u will like to sell it later at $700K right ;)
everyone also have same dream ;)
cheers
I know ur dream buy a BTO at $100K but u will like to sell it later at $700K right ;)
everyone also have same dream ;)
cheers
not everyone dream is to buy & sell at high leh..
some just want affordable home and without too much debt..
not everyone dream is to buy & sell at high leh..
some just want affordable home and without too much debt..
Face it life, death, tax and inflation 4 certainties in life. u cannot get away from it.
unfortunately in the current world with us/europe/japan exporting its debt. u cant get away from it. look at it this way. 400K / 30yrs = ~1.1K pm. its consumption like rental.
not considering some residue value later when u sell and go live with ur kids or downgrade in the future. and also not factoring in inflation.
unless u want become a monk go live in monstarty ;) but then monk hood these days also more complicated then b4.. thats life man. ;)
not everyone dream is to buy & sell at high leh..
some just want affordable home and without too much debt..
u might not be trading ur place to stay at some pt u might upgrade or downgrade for wat every reasons. then the sell price matters to you.
Thus put urself in the current owner shoes also the sell price do matter to them mah.
yea..the hot money just push everything up..
:o
not everyone dream is to buy & sell at high leh..
some just want affordable home and without too much debt..High salary, high inflation, high property price. Can we accept a lower salary or not? if can, property price can drop.
治标不治本. This problem will resurface with even bigger issue. Due to jobs security reason etc, SC population will shrink even further.
Which group of ppl they are going to bring in. Think !!!
Some companies (which i will not quote), having 4(SC) : 6 (F) ratio few years back and now a 2(SC) : 8 (F).
well thats lets face it tats the fact when u have less sgporean in some sectors too. anyway perhaps the government want to strengthen the labour laws to protect the singaporeans. but a balance have to be strike and not go overboard with end up strifle the business too.
High salary, high inflation, high property price. Can we accept a lower salary or not? if can, property price can drop.
salary can only go up. with tighten labour flow sure salary will surely move up.
but remember everyone salary move up the cost is pass back to the system. so in the end u dont feel any different. coz it comes back as inflation.
Caveat being if our economy dont collapse with too much bickering and politicking fxxxing up the system.
thats why I am all for cheaper labour in the population. while we improve our own value. Thats where u can demand higher pay and yet keep cost in check.
but unfortunately u cannot expect everyone to be the same.. if everyone is the same again dont feel any different. key is always keep ahead. thus i think thats why many feel pressured n unhappiness brew.
so my take is always educate the young plan a head. fight and cheong when young then slow down later to rest in the later years.
yea..the hot money just push everything up..
:o
hot money alone pushed SG all the way up to 3rd most expensive city to live in the world?
it is time to redevelop ubin.
ubin vista
reflections at ubin bay
ubin residence
ubin view
ubillion????
hot money alone pushed SG all the way up to 3rd most expensive city to live in the world?
Yes. a chase for yield. plus becoz we are attractive so more inflow of interest. factor in the singaporean also chase the property yield. everyone rushing into the market then all go up. coz limited pool easy to push up. like our SGX just some large funds enter all can easily move up too.
look at whole asia where property never move up? except vietnam.
If we are in deep shit like vietnam. no FDI wants to even come in. then sure.. nothing move. all go down.
Regulators
05-02-13, 22:50
WP opposes Population White Paper: Sylvia Lim
By Rachel Chang
Singapolitics
Monday, Feb 04, 2013
The Workers' Party opposes the Government's Population White Paper , said party chairman Sylvia Lim in Parliament today.
It believes that the Government, in expanding the population to reach its economic growth targets, has gotten its priorities the wrong way around, she said.
Ms Lim laid out the WP's stance on the first day of the parliamentary debate, setting the agenda for her party's nine MPs.
It proposes an alternative population projection of about 5.9 million by 2030, and a greater tradeoff between economic growth and population expansion.
Singapore should work towards a more modest Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth rate of 2.5 to 3 per cent to 2020, and 1.5 per cent to 2 per cent from 2020 to 2030.
This is about half a percentage point lower than the White Paper's projections.
Ms Lim also said that senior citizens "are not as much of a burden" as the Government is making them out to be.
A key plank of the White Paper's argument is that by 2030, there will only be 2.1 working citizens to support every person 65 years old and above, down from 5.9 now.
This assumes that senior citizens do not have economic resources of their own and will not be able to contribute to the economy, said Ms Lim. The WP believes they should be seen as resources, not burdens, she added.
Ms Lim also took aim at the Government's "half-hearted" attempts to boost the total fertility rate (TFR), which stems from the fact that immigration remains its key approach to augment the population. The Government seems "resigned" that the TFR will not improve greatly, and has not invested as much resources or tackled the issue as thoroughly as other counties like South Korea have done, she said.
In a parting shot, Ms Lim charged that the Population White Paper's title - "A Sustainable Population for a Dynamic Singapore" - illustrated the Government's muddled priorities. Rather, it should be titled "A Dynamic Population for a Sustainable Singapore," she said.
Regulators
05-02-13, 22:51
Ministers are supposed to work round the problem and boost economy without affecting the lives of singaporeans. They are obviously not listening to people and want to take the short cut to things. From the white paper, it is very obvious that govt cares more about growth than the welfare of core citizens. :doh:
Regulators
05-02-13, 23:05
Do you even know what you are talking about? No wonder eng calls you a hare brain :doh:
Yes. a chase for yield. plus becoz we are attractive so more inflow of interest. factor in the singaporean also chase the property yield. everyone rushing into the market then all go up. coz limited pool easy to push up. like our SGX just some large funds enter all can easily move up too.
look at whole asia where property never move up? except vietnam.
If we are in deep shit like vietnam. no FDI wants to even come in. then sure.. nothing move. all go down.
Do you even know what you are talking about? No wonder eng calls you a hare brain :doh:
like u know? pea brian?
Ministers are supposed to work round the problem and boost economy without affecting the lives of singaporeans. They are obviously not listening to people and want to take the short cut to things. From the white paper, it is very obvious that govt cares more about growth than the welfare of core citizens. :doh:
without ecnomical growth wats resources are there to use take care of people. no wonder u think with ur ass.
u think sgp gold everyday fall from sky? or oil seeping out of the ground?
Regulators
05-02-13, 23:15
there are many factors for growth, population growth is not the only solution. anyway won't bother elaborating to you coz would just be playing the piano to a cow. Think you should learn not to contradict yourself first, but that being said, your posts do give everyone a good laugh :D
without growth wats resources there are to take care of people. no wonder u think with ur ass.
there are many factors for growth, population growth is not the only solution. anyway won't bother elaborating to you coz would just be playing the piano to a cow. Think you should learn not to contradict yourself first, but that being said, your posts do give everyone a good laugh :D
dont bother to reply . coz cant make a blind bat see.
without a working population wat factors of growth u want? growing deficit? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
there are many factors for growth, population growth is not the only solution. anyway won't bother elaborating to you coz would just be playing the piano to a cow. Think you should learn not to contradict yourself first, but that being said, your posts do give everyone a good laugh :D
eh, can't reason with an organism with limited neuro synapses. i can't even be bothered to insult it, much more debate with it ;)
http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8321
Ponzi demography is essentially a pyramid scheme that attempts to make more money for some by adding on more and more people through population growth.
The underlying strategy of Ponzi demography is to privatize the profits and socialize the costs incurred from increased population growth.
:beats-me-man:
so much conspiracy theories these days... I think can write books.
http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8321
Ponzi demography is essentially a pyramid scheme that attempts to make more money for some by adding on more and more people through population growth.
The underlying strategy of Ponzi demography is to privatize the profits and socialize the costs incurred from increased population growth.
:beats-me-man:
Singapore is essentially running a Ponzi demography, no doubt about that.
I always question where the extra money from the additional population goes to.
so much conspiracy theories these days... I think can write books.
indeed.. very scary world la.... world is not so simple & innocent like in the past... getting complicated year by year :(
http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8321
Ponzi demography is essentially a pyramid scheme that attempts to make more money for some by adding on more and more people through population growth.
The underlying strategy of Ponzi demography is to privatize the profits and socialize the costs incurred from increased population growth.
:beats-me-man:
yes.. :o:o
Singapore is essentially running a Ponzi demography, no doubt about that.
I always question where the extra money from the additional population goes to.
at least our govt is smart to tap on this kind of strategy to help singapore prosper.... if not, singapore is really nothing compare to malaysia & indonesia .. my & indo got huge population & natural resources.. they can win or match singapore by 2030..
:o
indeed.. very scary world la.... world is not so simple & innocent like in the past... getting complicated year by year :(
yes.. :o:o
at least our govt is smart to tap on this kind of strategy to help singapore prosper.... if not, singapore is really nothing compare to malaysia & indonesia .. my & indo got huge population & natural resources.. they can win or match singapore by 2030..
:o
this can only last one generation. after 6.9m, 12m, then 24m, then what? each generation will only reproduce less and less, and you need to import more and more to support the ever-enlarging aging population.
who is the greatest beneficiary of a large "new citizen" population?
who is the greatest beneficiary of a large "new citizen" population?
the one sitting on top of the mountain..:p
this can only last one generation. after 6.9m, 12m, then 24m, then what? each generation will only reproduce less and less, and you need to import more and more to support the ever-enlarging aging population.
who is the greatest beneficiary of a large "new citizen" population?
At least the plan is to look beyond 1 generation. the next generation will have to work on the challenge. Didnt we start from a generation that was facing challenges in the 60s? then the 70s?
Thats life. There is no 100% guarantee all the way. If this are such solution then every nation before us would have done it.
As for who will benefit. I would digress to say why are we son focus on how much benefit who will get. If the system benefit singaporean regardless to me the proposal works.
its a eco system all are inter related. If i was to look at it I would say singaporean benefit . and yes the new citizen will also benefit. you cannot have a I win u loose mentality. Then all end up loosing.
the one sitting on top of the mountain..:p
I would actually say those who are more willing to take risk and work for it would benefit.
Those sitting on their hands waiting for handout would still be sitting on their hands whining away.
I would actually say those who are more willing to take risk and work for it would benefit.
Those sitting on their hands waiting for handout would still be sitting on their hands whining away.
this statement i agree.
we will have to look beyond all the distractions, and concentrate on our investments and lifegoals. PAP will not stop to listen to your whining. :D
I would actually say those who are more willing to take risk and work for it would benefit.
Those sitting on their hands waiting for handout would still be sitting on their hands whining away.
given the influx of people, supposedly wages at the lower levels would remain depressed. Would these drive more people to become bosses?
eg additional 700,000 homes. if average 1 mil value, 700billion. commision 1% = 7bil over 17 years = 411.8million per year in additional commission.
of course have to be in top 20% agent to reap the majority of this windfall.
given the influx of people, supposedly wages at the lower levels would remain depressed. Would these drive more people to become bosses?
eg additional 700,000 homes. if average 1 mil value, 700billion. commision 1% = 7bil over 17 years = 411.8million per year in additional commission.
of course have to be in top 20% agent to reap the majority of this windfall.
excuse me if everyone expect higher wages n still do the same level of work. there are no meaning to higher wages. coz everything seep back into the basic service n material cost. so what if you get paid $100 a hr? if chicken rice end up $90? coz the worker and store owner must pass the cost on?
工子不出头 . Work gets u by. Some get by more comfortable than others. want to lead the pack u have to strive beyond the norm. Go venture go take risk . Sit ard and complain about suppress wages? not going to get anyone any where.
WP gerald's argument is to reduce the growth rate and yet increase the minimum wage to attract more locals. BUT govt suppose to bear bulk of these. is really like raiding the reserve. if govt keep bearing such cost, even 10 gold mine also dry up.
Regulators
07-02-13, 10:12
I can't agree more, we are in for the ponzi. we need wp to stop it.
http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8321
Ponzi demography is essentially a pyramid scheme that attempts to make more money for some by adding on more and more people through population growth.
The underlying strategy of Ponzi demography is to privatize the profits and socialize the costs incurred from increased population growth.
:beats-me-man:
Are any of you chinese here comfortable with a chinese minority population?
WP gerald's argument is to reduce the growth rate and yet increase the minimum wage to attract more locals. BUT govt suppose to bear bulk of these. is really like raiding the reserve. if govt keep bearing such cost, even 10 gold mine also dry up.
u think WP cares? to all the opposition is giving the people wat they ask for. regardless the rational. Objective is simple ceasing power.
Thats why most of the proposal are half bucket full. and never consider longer term view. All are short term fix which involves using reserve.
The other is use reserve to pays for SME rental. I would be happy land lord. but why must reserve be use to pay rental? how long can that last? well opposition dont care. coz message sound sexy and thats what people want. handout. $$ from sky.
Are any of you chinese here comfortable with a chinese minority population?
sure if there are sufficient interracial cross population. why not? kids look prettier too!
Regulators
07-02-13, 10:21
the rate mat yoyos are reproducing and foreigners coming in, born n bred Chinese shrinking to minority. think it was never the intention of having minorities overtaking majority race.
sure if there are sufficient interracial cross population. why not? kids look prettier too!
minority race is one thing, minority religion become majority religion another thing.
be careful what you wish for.
Are we talking about 2 wives policy? If the means justify the end, we should consider it as a mean to boost indigenous sg population.
Are we talking about 2 wives policy? If the means justify the end, we should consider it as a mean to boost indigenous sg population.
GOOD! IDEA!
why not implement surrogate motherhood for the busy couple.
also without stretch marks and other side effects, a female is more willing to have a baby.
also have higher bonus for female babies. a male can impregnate 1000 females. yet a female only a baby per year. so a female is more valuable than a male.
hence male have to serve ns (and go to war), female no need.
even if 80% males die in a war, the remaining 20% males can impregnate the 100% surviving females.
this is the reasoning why 1 man can have 4 wives. so that population can be built up quickly after a war. a prostitute is more likely to abort rather than carry a child full term.
why not implement surrogate motherhood for the busy couple.
also without stretch marks and other side effects, a female is more willing to have a baby.
also have higher bonus for female babies. a male can impregnate 1000 females. yet a female only a baby per year. so a female is more valuable than a male.
hence male have to serve ns (and go to war), female no need.
even if 80% males die in a war, the remaining 20% males can impregnate the 100% surviving females.
this is the reasoning why 1 man can have 4 wives. so that population can be built up quickly after a war. a prostitute is more likely to abort rather than carry a child full term.
u give a singaporean man 10 wife oso no children, nowadays pple want song, dowan to pay.
:doh: :doh:
phantom_opera
07-02-13, 10:47
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/01/20130206_allwell_0.jpg
u give a singaporean man 10 wife oso no children, nowadays pple want song, dowan to pay.
:doh: :doh:
song too much low sperm count. then blame state for policy miss match again.. :D :D :D :D :D
would it better to employ 10 $1000 WP holder or 1 $10000 S-pass?
my thinking is the lowly paid WP holder will spend a higher proportion of their income in singapore as compare to the higher paid worker.
just like the poor citizens in singapore spend a higher proportion of their income as compared to the rich citizens.
if WP holder spend 80% of their income, then they spend $8000.
S-pass holder spend 60% of his income, he spend $6000, save $4000 which doesnt boost the economy.
In the past, some thought and planning for Sg future were forgotten today, good example is intro of IR.
2030.. the world of many unknowns, subway cross borders.
Sg become like bus interchange, ppl come n go.
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