View Full Version : Two-thirds of Singaporeans in white-collar jobs by 2030
Source: http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/two-thirds-singaporeans-white-collar-jobs-2030-20130129
Two thirds of Singaporeans will hold white-collar PMET jobs by 2030, up from half the workforce currently, a new population White Paper has projected.
Growth rates of 3 to 5 per cent may be achieved in this decade, but is likely to be more modest at 2 to 3 per cent per year from 2020 to 2030, said the new study by the National Population and Talent Division (NPTD).
To ensure there are enough good jobs to go around, Singapore needs to innovate and restructure its industries even as it improves on its productivity, said NPTD.
In its widely-anticipated White Paper, which sets out Singapore's population and immigration policies for the future, the NPTD noted that the citizen workforce will age and plateau beyond 2020.
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/pop2.jpg
he paper recommends a calibrated inflow of foreign workers to complement the Singaporean workforce.
As citizen workforce growth slows, the total workforce growth is also projected to slow to 1 to 2 per cent - half the average of the past 30 years.
Given this workforce growth rate, and if Singapore achieves the stretch target of 2 to 3 per cent productivity growth per year in this decade, the country can get 3 to 5 per cent GDP growth on average up to 2020.
From 2020 to 2030, with workforce growth likely at 1 per cent and productivity growth rates at 1 to 2 per cent per year, Singapore will see more modest GDP growth of 2 to 3 per cent per year.
Aiya whatever lah... if he wants to bring in more foreigners from all walks of life, we can't stop him. We just need to ensure that we continuously upgrade ourselves so that we are not left out. Of course this is at the expense of lesser pay. :scared-5:
By then, the minority Blue Collar workers will complain about being disadvantaged in society and some strive to upgrade themselves to the other side. Nobody is going to do the mundane manual jobs. Sigh, the consequence of progress.
Blue collar workers will be the valuable ones. Plumber gets pay more than a white collar worker. :D
Regulators
29-01-13, 15:07
my hawker friend with primary school education earns $30-40k a month, my white collar friend with a degree earns $5k plus a month
my hawker friend with primary school education earns $30-40k a month, my white collar friend with a degree earns $5k plus a month
these are anomalies or outliers.
the median income of white collar workers is surely higher than the median income of blue collar workers.
but congrats to your fren.. he must be really savvy with his biz marketing and pricing policies to do so well (plus a good cook too)! :cheers6:
my hawker friend with primary school education earns $30-40k a month, my white collar friend with a degree earns $5k plus a month
the thing is how many of your friends with primary school education earns 30-40k? and how many of your graduate friends earn 5k?
Blue collar workers will be the valuable ones. Plumber gets pay more than a white collar worker. :D
in japan, bus driver paid almost the same as a medical doctor
in japan, bus driver paid almost the same as a medical doctor
where did u get this information? is this the general norm? :confused:
Spain’s Lost Generation Spends Salad Days Toiling in U.K.
By Andrea Gerlin & Alex Morales - Jan 23, 2013 8:46 PM GMT+0800
Spain's Unemployed Youth Seek Opportunities in U.K.
Carlos Hernandez Sonseca studied six years for a bachelor’s degree and couldn’t find a job near his home outside Madrid when he graduated in 2011. Last year, he took an increasingly well-worn path to the U.K.
Enlarge image
U.K. fast-food jobs and other low-wage roles have been dominated by Poles and others who arrived after the European Union expanded eastward in 2004. Now they’re joined by young Spaniards who can’t find work at home, where unemployment hit 25 percent last year. Photographer: Chris Ratcliffe/Bloomberg
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The 27-year-old journalist now washes and chops vegetables eight hours a day at the Vital Ingredient salad bar in London’s financial district, making 260 pounds ($418) before taxes in a 40-hour week. Thirteen other Spaniards are among a workforce of 17, said manager Francisco “Chico” Baumle, a Brazilian.
U.K. fast-food jobs and other low-wage roles have been dominated by Poles and others who arrived after the European Union expanded eastward in 2004. Now they’re joined by young Spaniards who can’t find work at home, where unemployment hit 25 percent last year. In the financial year to April, 30,370 Spaniards registered to work in the U.K., up 25 percent from the previous year, and more than double the 2009-10 levels, according to data from the Department for Work and Pensions.
“We are a lost generation, for sure,” Hernandez Sonseca said. “Spain has nothing to offer us, so we go abroad and we work as salad makers and kitchen porters. They are losing money and they are losing skilled people.”
The newest workers have it toughest in Spain’s labor market, where the jobless rate among adults under 25 reached 52 percent in the third quarter of 2012, according to the most recent data from Spain’s National Institute of Statistics.
McDonald’s Job
The unemployment rate in the fourth quarter, due to be released tomorrow by the institute, probably rose to 26 percent, according to the median of 10 estimates in a Bloomberg survey. In the U.K., where the unemployment rate is 7.7 percent, jobless claims unexpectedly fell in December, the Office for National Statistics said today.
Hernandez Sonseca is one of three members of his university class now working at the same salad bar. His colleague Pablo Medina Martin came to London in January 2012 and ran down his savings during a month-long job hunt. He cleared tables and unloaded deliveries at a McDonald’s Corp. (MCD) restaurant in east London before moving to the salad bar in May.
“When I went to university, I never thought I’d end up working in a McDonald’s,” said Medina Martin. “In Spain, the staff in McDonald’s tends to be from South America, Ecuador, Colombia, the immigrants. Here in London, we’ve realized we’re the ones who are the immigrants.”
Attracting Youth
The U.K. has been the biggest destination for emigrating Spaniards for eight of the past 10 years for which data is available, according to the University of Oxford’s Determinants of International Migration project, which analyzes consulate data.
“Higher-educated Spaniards are unemployed, and even doctorate holders have higher rates of unemployment than in other European countries,” Maria Villares-Varela, a project researcher at Oxford’s International Migration Institute, said in an e-mail. “You can point to these factors as attracting youth to other countries.”
Spaniards arriving in Britain aren’t just taking jobs in shops and restaurants. Maria Paz Exposito, who manages the Barcelona-based nanny-placement website www.aupairspain.com, said she’s seen a 25 percent increase in young people seeking au pair work compared with two years ago. “Their first target is the U.K.,” she said.
There’s skilled work available, too. After computer programmer Belen Albeza finished her master’s degree in Barcelona in 2010, she ruled out working in Spain because her potential earnings would just cover expenses.
London Guide
“It was as cold as looking at the numbers,” Albeza said. “The math added up in London.”
Albeza said she sent her resume to friends in London. Within 15 days, she had job interviews via Skype that led to a position as a programmer. She now works at a telecommunications company and said she’s able to save.
Her friend Soledad Penades was asked to advise her compatriots so often that she posted a “Spanish Guide to Working in London” on the Internet to offer advice.
“I was getting tired of answering the same questions once, and once, and once again,” said Penades, a programmer who moved to the U.K. before the 2008 financial crisis. Her guide has received more than 3,000 hits, she said.
The opportunity to learn English is an advantage of London, according to Medina Martin, who said he wants to be “proud” of his language skills when he returns to Spain. That’s also a focus for Carmen Serrano, a 27-year-old from Valencia who has a bachelor’s degree in journalism from Alicante University.
Learning English
Serrano emigrated in 2011 after five months seeking work in Barcelona. After stints in an EU post in Ireland and a restaurant in London’s Canary Wharf, she now works at Mexican chain restaurant Chilango in the financial district.
“I’m trying to have low goals, to learn English,” Serrano said. “If not, it’s depressing.”
Like Serrano, Hernandez Sonseca can’t currently envision a future in his homeland, where one of every three jobless in the euro region reside.
“I don’t even think about buying a house or settling down because I cannot do it,” Hernandez Sonseca said. “If the economy there gets better, then maybe. It will be at least 10 years.”
‘My Way’
For his colleague and compatriot Raquel del Rosario, 29, it’s hard to accept working in a job like one she had in a bakery 12 years ago.
Since then, del Rosario said she studied accounting and finance for four years in her native Tenerife before becoming a trainee accountant in the Canary Islands in 2005. She used her final pay-check after being fired from a subsequent job selling cars to move to Chichester, England, in 2010 to work and study. In September she began preparing salads for 6.25 pounds an hour at Vital Ingredient.
“I get depressed when I think ‘oh my God, five years ago I was working for 2,000 euros a month,’” del Rosario said. “But I have a job, I can pay for myself. I came here with no job, knowing nobody. I made my own way.”
Wild Falcon
29-01-13, 20:10
Good one. Not as if everyone aspire to do "white collar" job. Nowadays cool to be cooks and barristas etc.
my hawker friend with primary school education earns $30-40k a month, my white collar friend with a degree earns $5k plus a month
WOW, earns more than a new MP, or TPL...
Wonder if 30-40K is net net or gross pay. (free rentals?)
the thing is how many of your friends with primary school education earns 30-40k? and how many of your graduate friends earn 5k?
Regulators
29-01-13, 23:16
if you had been to adam rd or chomp chomp, you have probably patronised his stall before. not only does he earn that kind of money, he doesnt need to lift a finger to earn that, his ka kias slog at the stalls for him.
Good one. Not as if everyone aspire to do "white collar" job. Nowadays cool to be cooks and barristas etc.
WOW, earns more than a new MP, or TPL...
Wonder if 30-40K is net net or gross pay. (free rentals?)
I am not surprise that blue collar is earning much more than white collar, provided they are self employed. Is easier to be be their own boss compare to white collar.
Low capital requirement (Plumber, electrician, hawker, air con servicing)
Pay less Govt tax (If you know what i meant)
Staff salaries are low (Hired those cheap foreigner)
Less competitors (Less blue collars more white collars)
if you had been to adam rd or chomp chomp, you have probably patronised his stall before. not only does he earn that kind of money, he doesnt need to lift a finger to earn that, his ka kias slog at the stalls for him.
which exactly fulfills my previous prediction that he's biz savvy. he's not considered blue collar worker in this scenario since he runs the stalls but not actually a hawker per se (since he employs others to cook and man the stall).
just as the owner of a coffeeshop or kopitiam is definitely not a normal blue collar worker.
these days, alot of hawker stalls tat have built a good client following are beginning to do that.. juz look at the wanton mee stalls at old airport road. the original owners now hire prcs to cook while they chill and relax. tat's why these days u see lao zi haos trying to hook for multi-million payoffs in exchange for their store and secret recipe. :cheers6:
where did u get this information? is this the general norm? :confused:
yup, after a makan session at "no signboard" with a jap gynaeoncologist. he complained of the poor quality of life (needing to earn extra $ by taking locum night calls), even as a specialist before mentioning that a public bus driver earns almost as much as he does.
yup, after a makan session at "no signboard" with a jap gynaeoncologist. he complained of the poor quality of life (needing to earn extra $ by taking locum night calls), even as a specialist before mentioning that a public bus driver earns almost as much as he does.
so who is underpaid and who is overpaid?
yup, after a makan session at "no signboard" with a jap gynaeoncologist. he complained of the poor quality of life (needing to earn extra $ by taking locum night calls), even as a specialist before mentioning that a public bus driver earns almost as much as he does.
i seriously doubt that he's representing the truth and not just a mere exaggeration of his frustrations.
just like investment bankers like to say that due to the hours put in and stress of their work, they are paid as much or even lower than bus drivers.
which is ridiculous.
so who is underpaid and who is overpaid?
to provide a perspective, the bus driver earns slightly over USD$100k per year before taxes.
i can't comment whether who is under or overpaid, because societal norms are different from singapore.
however, if we compare between SG and JP bus drivers, then JPnese are definitely much better paid
I am glad that as an Office Boy, I am properly paid.
DKSG
i seriously doubt that he's representing the truth and not just a mere exaggeration of his frustrations.
just like investment bankers like to say that due to the hours put in and stress of their work, they are paid as much or even lower than bus drivers.
which is ridiculous.
i don't know what is your basis for doubting? neither do i know his reasons for lying.
if he can quote concrete figures, why is it ridiculous? bus drivers in osaka earn over USD$80k per year, assuming that it's status quo since years back
to provide a perspective, the bus driver earns slightly over USD$100k per year before taxes.
i can't comment whether who is under or overpaid, because societal norms are different from singapore.
however, if we compare between SG and JP bus drivers, then JPnese are definitely much better paid
wonder wad's the after tax income.. it's seriously big money for a bus driver. but i will reckon a specialist doctor should be earning alot more than 100k pa before taxes.
to put into perspective, average bus driver salaries around the world (japan not included in the study). japan easily trounces the highest paid aussie or norwegian drivers by 3 times more (if we take usdyen at 90).
http://www.worldsalaries.org/busdriver.shtml
anyway, the 700 "lucky" osaka drivers must be sweating now with the new mayor's intention to cut their salary by 40% to make it on par with private bus salaries. luckily they have their powerful bus driver union to fight for them. :rolleyes:
http://www.houseofjapan.com/local/osaka-to-cut-city-bus-drivers-annual-pay-by-40
i don't know what is your basis for doubting? neither do i know his reasons for lying.
if he can quote concrete figures, why is it ridiculous? bus drivers in osaka earn over USD$80k per year, assuming that it's status quo since years back
so did he show you that he earns USD80k per year as a specialist doctor? ;)
i don't know what is your basis for doubting? neither do i know his reasons for lying.
if he can quote concrete figures, why is it ridiculous? bus drivers in osaka earn over USD$80k per year, assuming that it's status quo since years back
my basis is the same as my disbelief that investment bankers earn as much or lower than bus drivers. :doh:
so did he show you that he earns USD80k per year as a specialist doctor? ;)
why does he even need to show me his payslip?! do you do that?!! :doh: :doh:
my basis is the same as my disbelief that investment bankers earn as much or lower than bus drivers. :doh:
open up your mind lah :banghead: :banghead: what you may not see in singapore, does not mean it is not happening in other parts of the world
http://www.worldsalaries.org/generalphysician.shtml
so the reason for him lying to me, after a good session of chilli crab, is to gain my sympathy?! :doh:
why does he even need to show me his payslip?! do you do that?!! :doh: :doh:
so what makes u believe wadeva he said is the truth? that he earns less than a bus driver? :doh: :doh: :doh:
u are just bs along with him then.
open up your mind lah :banghead: :banghead: what you may not see in singapore, does not mean it is not happening in other parts of the world
http://www.worldsalaries.org/generalphysician.shtml
so the reason for him lying to me, after a good session of chilli crab, is to gain my sympathy?! :doh:
ok ok.. i'm the hermit and u are the observer who has seen the world. i've only worked in hong kong, taiwan, singapore and europe in my career and not japan.. so i definitely am not aware of what happens outside singapore.
specialists doctors in japan earn less than a bus driver... just as investment bankers earn less than a bus driver... u the man.. i kowtow to u your absolute knowledge compared to my inferior knowledge... :D
ok ok.. i'm the hermit and u are the observer who has seen the world. i've only worked in hong kong, taiwan, singapore and europe in my career and not japan.. so i definitely am not aware of what happens outside singapore.
specialists doctors in japan earn less than a bus driver... just as investment bankers earn less than a bus driver... u the man.. i kowtow to u your absolute knowledge compared to my inferior knowledge... :D
oh by the way, from a hermit's point of view, you need to understand that the link u attached from world salaries affirms my judgement that your fren is lying.
the average salary of a physician (not even a specialist) according to world salaries org is 9.13million yen. while the mind boggling salary of the bus driver is 7.39 million yen (and to be reduced by 40% gradually beginning fiscal 2012).
if my hermit brain is not wrong, 9.13 million is definitely more than 7.39 million.. or do i need to open my mind further to see that 7.39million is actually more than 9.13 million? :rolleyes: please enlighten me oh wise one.
....
if my hermit brain is not wrong, 9.13 million is definitely more than 7.39 million.. or do i need to open my mind further to see that 7.39million is actually more than 9.13 million? :rolleyes: please enlighten me oh wise one.
maybe per hour basis bus driver earn more?
just like nuclear jumper can earn U$5000 per day, or actual 1 hour of work on the reactor?
oh by the way, from a hermit's point of view, you need to understand that the link u attached from world salaries affirms my judgement that your fren is lying.
the average salary of a physician (not even a specialist) according to world salaries org is 9.13million yen. while the mind boggling salary of the bus driver is 7.39 million yen (and to be reduced by 40% gradually beginning fiscal 2012).
if my hermit brain is not wrong, 9.13 million is definitely more than 7.39 million.. or do i need to open my mind further to see that 7.39million is actually more than 9.13 million? :rolleyes: please enlighten me oh wise one.
eh, hare-brained, learn to read ".....that a public bus driver earns almost as much as he does"
firstly, do you know for sure that drivers in tokyo are paid the same as in osaka?
secondly, the average salary a GP earns, in a PRIVATE ESTABLISHMENT with 10 or more employees, is merely USD$5.4k per mth. This is what a doctor in a huge, private clinic earns in a month. go make your assumptions for one in the public sector.
multiply by the norm of about 50%, it's max USD$8k per mth = approx. USD$100k per year
if you can't read, at least learn to calculate.
oh by the way, from a hermit's point of view, you need to understand that the link u attached from world salaries affirms my judgement that your fren is lying.
the average salary of a physician (not even a specialist) according to world salaries org is 9.13million yen. while the mind boggling salary of the bus driver is 7.39 million yen (and to be reduced by 40% gradually beginning fiscal 2012).
if my hermit brain is not wrong, 9.13 million is definitely more than 7.39 million.. or do i need to open my mind further to see that 7.39million is actually more than 9.13 million? :rolleyes: please enlighten me oh wise one.
oh ya, again hare-brained. it's only drivers in Osaka :doh:
eh, hare-brained, learn to read ".....that a public bus driver earns almost as much as he does"
firstly, do you know for sure that drivers in tokyo are paid the same as in osaka?
secondly, the average salary a GP earns, in a PRIVATE ESTABLISHMENT with 10 or more employees, is merely USD$5.4k per mth. This is what a doctor in a huge, private clinic earns in a month. go make your assumptions for one in the public sector.
multiply by the norm of about 50%, it's max USD$8k per mth = approx. USD$100k per year
if you can't read, at least learn to calculate.
yes my great wise one.. 9 is smaller than 7.. oh wise one. me hare brained so not very smart with maths.. u just introduced earth shattering new math concepts that is oh so exotic. :D
oh ya, again hare-brained. it's only drivers in Osaka :doh:
oh yes great wise one... your maths very powderful... and your ability to provide proof of your great vision is very the powderful... 7 is bigger than 9.. yes it must be true from the wise one... :cheers6:
maybe per hour basis bus driver earn more?
just like nuclear jumper can earn U$5000 per day, or actual 1 hour of work on the reactor?
well, if that's the basis of the oh-so-wise-one's argument, i will be happy for him to prove me right with the numbers and calculation.. but considering his hypothetical situation is based on the fact his oh-so-truthful gynaecologist jap fren claims he earns as much (or as little depending on how one conceives it), then we are talking about absolute nominal sum, and not the hourly rates.
even on the latter basis as per your suggestion, i will still believe that the hourly rate of a doctor may not pale in comparison to that of the bus drivers in japan.. or some other worldly place that is not known to me; as very rightly pointed out by oh-so-wise-one that i'm a little hermit who cant see outside Singapore..
guess it shows the extent one is willing to distort truths and facts when one can overthrow basic math by claiming 9.13mil is smaller than 7.39 mil. really made my day man! :D
Sanitary hygiene executive (toilet cleaner), automotive engineer (workshop mechanic), F&B maintenance engineer (food court table wiper and floor mopper), mass transit customer service executive (bus and train drivers), junior executive chef (hawker centre assistant), etc
All these are white collar jobs, no?
Also, can Govt please define the term "Singaporeans" in 2030?
As far as I know, this term encompasses all born in Singapore citizens, new citizen immigrants as well as permanent residents?
So does it mean that from now till 2030, Govt will give out citizenship like crazy in order to archive the 2/3 by 2030 goal?
Sanitary hygiene executive (toilet cleaner), automotive engineer (workshop mechanic), F&B maintenance engineer (food court table wiper and floor mopper), mass transit customer service executive (bus and train drivers), junior executive chef (hawker centre assistant), etc
All these are white collar jobs, no?
yes, as long as their uniform have white collar, then they are considered as white collar employees.
Also, can Govt please define the term "Singaporeans" in 2030?
As far as I know, this term encompasses all born in Singapore citizens, new citizen immigrants as well as permanent residents?
So does it mean that from now till 2030, Govt will give out citizenship like crazy in order to archive the 2/3 by 2030 goal?
singaporeans = born in singapore citizens + new citizen immigrants
residents = singaporeans + permanent residents.
Regulators
31-01-13, 11:10
he had been tending to the stall with his father for years until he decided the best way forward was to let people do the work and him taking a back seat.
which exactly fulfills my previous prediction that he's biz savvy. he's not considered blue collar worker in this scenario since he runs the stalls but not actually a hawker per se (since he employs others to cook and man the stall).
just as the owner of a coffeeshop or kopitiam is definitely not a normal blue collar worker.
these days, alot of hawker stalls tat have built a good client following are beginning to do that.. juz look at the wanton mee stalls at old airport road. the original owners now hire prcs to cook while they chill and relax. tat's why these days u see lao zi haos trying to hook for multi-million payoffs in exchange for their store and secret recipe. :cheers6:
he had been tending to the stall with his father for years until he decided the best way forward was to let people do the work and him taking a back seat.
His stalls or his father's stalls originally? We know what usually happens when the next generation boss is off-hand from running the business.
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