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http://www.straitstimes.com/archive/tuesday/premium/singapore/story/some-buyers-taking-advantage-ecs-profit-20130115
Parliament
Some buyers 'taking advantage of ECs to profit'
Khaw: Some rent out dual-key units at once, others can afford private
Published on Jan 15, 2013
By Melissa Tan
THE Government will continue building executive condominiums (ECs) and has moved to fix loopholes that lead to abuse of the policy, Minister for National Development Khaw Boon Wan said.
He told Parliament yesterday that the Government changed the EC rules as soon as it realised that some buyers were taking advantage of them to profit.
For instance, dual-key EC units - which have two separate entrances to provide privacy - are meant to support multi-generational families, but some people were buying them to get "immediate rental yield" instead, he said.
Also, "families that can actually afford private property are coming in to take up ECs", Mr Khaw said, noting that they were "very much encouraged" to do so by the sale of huge EC units.
This goes against the original intent of the EC policy, which is to cater to a "sandwiched class" of buyers who might not qualify for public housing but find private property beyond their reach.
Several MPs pressed the minister on whether recent launches of super-large and pricey EC units violated the original spirit and intent of the policy.
Mr David Ong (Jurong GRC) cited the sale of a 4,349 sq ft penthouse at an EC in Tampines for a record $2.05 million last month and asked if the developer had won official approval to market such a unit.
Mr Khaw replied that earlier EC plans were approved based on the planning rules at that time "but as soon as we realised that the planning rules were being taken advantage of, we fixed it, and I think this should be history".
Maintaining that ECs were "really a wonderful scheme", he noted that measures unveiled by the Government last Friday were meant to "make sure the scheme returns to its original spirit".
The changes include capping the size of an EC unit at 160 sq m and allowing only multi-generational families to buy new dual- key units, among others.
Mr Khaw said the EC scheme "protects middle-income Singaporeans from competition while ensuring a very market-friendly way of allowing them to buy condos at very affordable prices... We should try to ensure its continuance because it is relevant".
"By capping the size of the EC, I think automatically the price will become more sober."
Mr Hri Kumar Nair (Bishan-Toa Payoh GRC) asked whether the Government should continue with ECs if the scheme could still be abused.
Mr Khaw said: "I will continue to be vigilant and see. And if indeed the abuse continues, we may have to think of other ways of fixing this problem."
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proud owner
16-01-13, 13:08
on the same note ....
transport minister please take note
what was the original purpose of COE ?
to curb car population ... traffic jams during peak hours
right ??/
has COE done what its supposed to ??
has ERP ( a cure to failing COE ) done what its intended for ?
yet COE and ERP still there and getting higher ...
so who is exploiting who now ???
http://www.straitstimes.com/archive/tuesday/premium/singapore/story/some-buyers-taking-advantage-ecs-profit-20130115
Parliament
Some buyers 'taking advantage of ECs to profit'
Khaw: Some rent out dual-key units at once, others can afford private
Published on Jan 15, 2013
By Melissa Tan
THE Government will continue building executive condominiums (ECs) and has moved to fix loopholes that lead to abuse of the policy, Minister for National Development Khaw Boon Wan said.
He told Parliament yesterday that the Government changed the EC rules as soon as it realised that some buyers were taking advantage of them to profit.
For instance, dual-key EC units - which have two separate entrances to provide privacy - are meant to support multi-generational families, but some people were buying them to get "immediate rental yield" instead, he said.
Also, "families that can actually afford private property are coming in to take up ECs", Mr Khaw said, noting that they were "very much encouraged" to do so by the sale of huge EC units.
This goes against the original intent of the EC policy, which is to cater to a "sandwiched class" of buyers who might not qualify for public housing but find private property beyond their reach.
Several MPs pressed the minister on whether recent launches of super-large and pricey EC units violated the original spirit and intent of the policy.
Mr David Ong (Jurong GRC) cited the sale of a 4,349 sq ft penthouse at an EC in Tampines for a record $2.05 million last month and asked if the developer had won official approval to market such a unit.
Mr Khaw replied that earlier EC plans were approved based on the planning rules at that time "but as soon as we realised that the planning rules were being taken advantage of, we fixed it, and I think this should be history".
Maintaining that ECs were "really a wonderful scheme", he noted that measures unveiled by the Government last Friday were meant to "make sure the scheme returns to its original spirit".
The changes include capping the size of an EC unit at 160 sq m and allowing only multi-generational families to buy new dual- key units, among others.
Mr Khaw said the EC scheme "protects middle-income Singaporeans from competition while ensuring a very market-friendly way of allowing them to buy condos at very affordable prices... We should try to ensure its continuance because it is relevant".
"By capping the size of the EC, I think automatically the price will become more sober."
Mr Hri Kumar Nair (Bishan-Toa Payoh GRC) asked whether the Government should continue with ECs if the scheme could still be abused.
Mr Khaw said: "I will continue to be vigilant and see. And if indeed the abuse continues, we may have to think of other ways of fixing this problem."
[email protected]
on the same note ....
transport minister please take note
what was the original purpose of COE ?
to curb car population ... traffic jams during peak hours
right ??/
has COE done what its supposed to ??
has ERP ( a cure to failing COE ) done what its intended for ?
yet COE and ERP still there and getting higher ...
so who is exploiting who now ???
imo, all the issues regarding high COE, Property prices, break down of MRT has a lot to do with the significant increase in population over the last 5 years without a corresponding increase in infrastructure investments.
As a result, there is over-crowding as well as under-maintenance leading to break downs and price increases.
imo, all the issues regarding high COE, Property prices, break down of MRT has a lot to do with the significant increase in population over the last 5 years without a corresponding increase in infrastructure investments.
As a result, there is over-crowding as well as under-maintenance leading to break downs and price increases.
Singapore has a population of 5.18million, much more than the 4.4million of New Zealand. :doh:
Singapore has a population of 5.18million, much more than the 4.4million of New Zealand. :doh:
5.31 mil in 2012. Our population growth rate is still maintained. Don't be mistaken that we are reducing immigrants or rejecting EPs. It is just stricter screening process to reduce blue collar workers coming in (that lead to all the basic services price increase due to lack of these workers) but the growth numbers are still there.
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/hist/popn.html
Wild Falcon
16-01-13, 14:37
Wah lau. Isn't that the intention of subsidised EC and HDB? People use it to profit and move up the ladder from working to middle class? Frankly, if one's income is below $10k and qualifies, getting a HDB flat or EC direct from HDB is a surefire way to make a few hundred k within 5 years. Those not qualified - too bad.
Wah lau. Isn't that the intention of subsidised EC and HDB? People use it to profit and move up the ladder from working to middle class? Frankly, if one's income is below $10k and qualifies, getting a HDB flat or EC direct from HDB is a surefire way to make a few hundred k within 5 years. Those not qualified - too bad.
If I'm a first timer, I would certainly start with a HDB if I qualify but I wouldnt be too happy even if I managed to `earn' a few hundred k in 5 years time coz I'm sure the whole mkt moves up in tandem and in almost similiar '% wise'. Assuming upgrade means from HDB -> PC, the PC would have gone by an even higher amount by virtue of the fact the base is higher.
For me, the safer way to upgrade is to save up for a 2nd ppty without selling the 1st ppty. Keep the consumption cost low (instead of increasing your commitment by taking on a bigger loan due to the `upgrade' to PC) and most certainly, family expenses will also increase due to the arrival of kids.
With the 2nd ppty as investment, hopefully one is able to profit from it to both clear the loan of the 1st ppty and also provide the seed money for subsequent investment to start accumulating funds for the proper upgrade. To jump straight from HDB to PC with the profits made by liquidating the HDB is quite risky to most average 1st timer imo, especially those without parental support.
5.31 mil in 2012. Our population growth rate is still maintained. Don't be mistaken that we are reducing immigrants or rejecting EPs. It is just stricter screening process to reduce blue collar workers coming in (that lead to all the basic services price increase due to lack of these workers) but the growth numbers are still there.
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/hist/popn.html
Why are they reducing blue collar FW when local PMETs are screaming and crying for reduction of white collar FTs?
What does the govt have up their sleeves?
Singapore has a population of 5.18million, much more than the 4.4million of New Zealand. :doh:
Dear Sir,
At least we now have more human beans than cows in NZ! Fernleaf milk powder can no longer claim that NZ has more cows than our population! :D
hdb eligibility = $10k limit
ec eligibility = $12K limit
the extra $2K really make that huge difference from can afford hdb to afford ec? in reality, ec price vs bto is a huge difference leh
how the income limit is being determined :beats-me-man:
simply $8k + $2k ... then $10k + $2k without any further consideration
in any case, if household income is $8k-$10k, why go with bto, betting on ec will make the highest profit after mop
buy at corolla price ... sell at lexus price ... where to find such bargain outside singapore :D
Wah lau. Isn't that the intention of subsidised EC and HDB? People use it to profit and move up the ladder from working to middle class? Frankly, if one's income is below $10k and qualifies, getting a HDB flat or EC direct from HDB is a surefire way to make a few hundred k within 5 years. Those not qualified - too bad.
So for those who buy dual key before this, when their EC TOP they won't be able to rent out their studio yes?
buttercarp
17-01-13, 08:19
So for those who buy dual key before this, when their EC TOP they won't be able to rent out their studio yes?
I don't think they have come up with any rules on this yet.
But because there is supposed to be 3 generations under one roof, letting out the studio may result in overcrowding within the main unit.
how to enforce? the studio is part of the dual key unit it's considered a "room". dual key unit owner simply rent out a room.
that's why dual key is so hot. live in and can rent out a room at a premium price with 100% privacy.
the entire dual key unit is considered 1 unit not 1 + 1 (studio)
So for those who buy dual key before this, when their EC TOP they won't be able to rent out their studio yes?
Next measure will come in very soon to disallow renting out of EC rooms before 5 years MOP ends
hdb eligibility = $10k limit
ec eligibility = $12K limit
the extra $2K really make that huge difference from can afford hdb to afford ec? in reality, ec price vs bto is a huge difference leh
how the income limit is being determined :beats-me-man:
simply $8k + $2k ... then $10k + $2k without any further consideration
in any case, if household income is $8k-$10k, why go with bto, betting on ec will make the highest profit after mop
buy at corolla price ... sell at lexus price ... where to find such bargain outside singapore :D
There's a difference between the income ceiling and the income range of EC /BTO buyers.
Setting the income ceiling at 10k for BTO and 12k for EC does not mean EC buyers are earning between 10k to 12k.
take a look at the grants given, <10k = $30k, 10-11k = $20k and 11-12k = $10k.
Up till date, most EC buyers who i've spoken have had their 20% down payment paid for by their parents.
IMO, only a small group of 2nd timers are the genuine "Sandwiched Class" who earns between 10-12k household income.
aiyah.. wtf stupid report lah.. who wont make profit of anything? If there are intention to make $ give the dude a toothpaste he will also find way to make $ out if it! dont want to allow profiting. nationalize all housing in Singapore! Wats there to complain.
Everyone pay rent fix per mth to government.
HDB people also make $ what? so how?
its a matter of folks who can buy and folks that cant. complain n complain.
Is that what u want to do?
Singapore has a population of 5.18million, much more than the 4.4million of New Zealand. :doh:
new zealand u rear sheep.. and swat flies.. why dont u comapre with brunei? only 300K population? make the comparison more drastic and dramatic?
hdb eligibility = $10k limit
ec eligibility = $12K limit
the extra $2K really make that huge difference from can afford hdb to afford ec? in reality, ec price vs bto is a huge difference leh
how the income limit is being determined :beats-me-man:
simply $8k + $2k ... then $10k + $2k without any further consideration
in any case, if household income is $8k-$10k, why go with bto, betting on ec will make the highest profit after mop
buy at corolla price ... sell at lexus price ... where to find such bargain outside singapore :D
so how EC 15K? then people complain again EC to ex. HDB reduce to 5K? then people complain many cannot qualify at all!
so how? wats ur solution other then set a problem statement?
I give u a solution go stay in Iskanda lor.. Big house n cheap price. comes with lots of land . i mean empty land.
plus got many other amenities like thieves n robbers and kidnappers to spice up the excitement.
when have time still can go legoland. pick some lego.?
my solution? as many pointed out and also highlighted in parliament debate ...
is EC still relevant? if no, scrap it
EC is not meeting its purpose and "noble" vision of fulfilling sandwich class who want to live in private condo but cannot afford. unless the eligibility of EC are done through "stricter validation process" instead of a simple income limit.
EC is a tool to make money ... like kena lottery
any tom, dick and harry even with household income $5K-$6K will hope to get EC (penthouse the best if got rich parent) because buy at corolla price and sell at lexus price and above ...
look at recent years EC launches ... most land next to PC ... straight away the agent will tell you ... just whack ... EC is side-by-side with PC
after mop ... your unit magically turn into PC ... sell to PR no $1000 psf no sell
so how? wats ur solution other then set a problem statement?
my solution? as many pointed out and also highlighted in parliament debate ...
is EC still relevant? if no, scrap it
EC is not meeting its purpose and "noble" vision of fulfilling sandwich class who want to live in private condo but cannot afford. unless the eligibility of EC are done through "stricter validation process" instead of a simple income limit.
EC is a tool to make money ... like kena lottery
any tom, dick and harry even with household income $5K-$6K will hope to get EC (penthouse the best if got rich parent) because buy at corolla price and sell at lexus price and above ...
look at recent years EC launches ... most land next to PC ... straight away the agent will tell you ... just whack ... EC is side-by-side with PC
after mop ... your unit magically turn into PC ... sell to PR no $1000 psf no sell
GOOD Scrap it then!
so how abt HDB? people also make $ from it. shall we do away with it too?
my solution? as many pointed out and also highlighted in parliament debate ...
is EC still relevant? if no, scrap it
EC is not meeting its purpose and "noble" vision of fulfilling sandwich class who want to live in private condo but cannot afford. unless the eligibility of EC are done through "stricter validation process" instead of a simple income limit.
EC is a tool to make money ... like kena lottery
any tom, dick and harry even with household income $5K-$6K will hope to get EC (penthouse the best if got rich parent) because buy at corolla price and sell at lexus price and above ...
look at recent years EC launches ... most land next to PC ... straight away the agent will tell you ... just whack ... EC is side-by-side with PC
after mop ... your unit magically turn into PC ... sell to PR no $1000 psf no sell
'buy at corolla price and sell at lexus price' is a myth. very simple.
EC and PC development in the same vicnity, same age, same size, same price: which one will you go for? no brainer, since PCs are better designed and of better quality
'buy at corolla price and sell at lexus price' is a myth. very simple.
EC and PC development in the same vicnity, same age, same size, same price: which one will you go for? no brainer, since PCs are better designed and of better quality
Some folks cannot accept that there are money can be made.
Its social mobility. Allowing the assets to appreciate allow to help and aid owner to be able to more social mobile. People take this that its a gievn they should be social mobile? Mine u. its to aid not a given. its up to the individual who can make it better to use the appreciable assets to help them to be more social mobile.
is it that bad? or everyone rather the assets is like water or a iPhone? use it and throw become no value? but then would it still mean it become very cheap? nope... when everyone want the same thing then it would never be cheap coz supply is less than demand. i.e. why would some one Q for the lastest iPhone while the old iPhone 1 can be bought for $100!
anyway lets not digress . So my take its a good thing. Those that can afford HDB buy HDB. those who can afford EC. buy EC.. if they make $ then be it.. allow the HDB guys move to EC if cannot afford PC. The EC guy can go PC. etc..
wats so wrong with that. :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
Well those with rich parents... people bay song... common.. those with parents help also buy HDB.. those with parents with bigger pockets help buy EC.
So is that anything wrong parents help the kids? also all these are Singapore citizen who pay tax in their own way. So to be fair these are the benefit for everyone of them for contributing to the economy.
So I dont see what is wrong with it. Just bunch of folks who decide they dont want to go with the system. end up dont qualify. then dont complain. u are better off then the avg folks... Jealous no rich daddy.. well thats another problem maybe should go ask mother... not something government can help u.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Some folks cannot accept that there are money can be made.
Its social mobility. Allowing the assets to appreciate allow to help and aid owner to be able to more social mobile. People take this that its a gievn they should be social mobile? Mine u. its to aid not a given. its up to the individual who can make it better to use the appreciable assets to help them to be more social mobile.
is it that bad? or everyone rather the assets is like water or a iPhone? use it and throw become no value? but then would it still mean it become very cheap? nope... when everyone want the same thing then it would never be cheap coz supply is less than demand. i.e. why would some one Q for the lastest iPhone while the old iPhone 1 can be bought for $100!
anyway lets not digress . So my take its a good thing. Those that can afford HDB buy HDB. those who can afford EC. buy EC.. if they make $ then be it.. allow the HDB guys move to EC if cannot afford PC. The EC guy can go PC. etc..
wats so wrong with that. :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
Well those with rich parents... people bay song... common.. those with parents help also buy HDB.. those with parents with bigger pockets help buy EC.
So is that anything wrong parents help the kids? also all these are Singapore citizen who pay tax in their own way. So to be fair these are the benefit for everyone of them for contributing to the economy.
So I dont see what is wrong with it. Just bunch of folks who decide they dont want to go with the system. end up dont qualify. then dont complain. u are better off then the avg folks... Jealous no rich daddy.. well thats another problem maybe should go ask mother... not something government can help u.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
wah piang, going entirely off tangent. please follow the line of discussion, which is not about social mobility :doh: :doh:
using your iphone example, new iphone and old iphone cost the same price - which would consumers choose? :banghead: :banghead:
rest my case
wah piang, going entirely off tangent. please follow the line of discussion, which is not about social mobility :doh: :doh:
using your iphone example, new iphone and old iphone cost the same price - which would consumers choose? :banghead: :banghead:
rest my case
So I guess the response u would like to hear is:
It all depends if my daddy rich a not. Rich I ask my maid go Q get new iphone 5. No rich daddy I go buy 3rd hand old iPhone1.
Some folks cannot accept that there are money can be made.
Its social mobility. Allowing the assets to appreciate allow to help and aid owner to be able to more social mobile. People take this that its a gievn they should be social mobile? Mine u. its to aid not a given. its up to the individual who can make it better to use the appreciable assets to help them to be more social mobile.
those that cry fowl.. all loser mentality. life is unfair, let's face it. the winner is the one who work hard and smart to jump onto the next social class. the loser is the one who whine and wait for $$$ to drop fr the sky.
District 84483535
18-01-13, 11:09
test sdfasd fasdf asdfa s
proud owner
18-01-13, 13:03
'buy at corolla price and sell at lexus price' is a myth. very simple.
EC and PC development in the same vicnity, same age, same size, same price: which one will you go for? no brainer, since PCs are better designed and of better quality
it was an insult to Lexus owners hahha
as for COE , the situation now is more like , Buy a Corolla at almost Lexus price ...
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