View Full Version : cm7 - sell hdb for condo?
Good time to sell HDB and move to a condo in view of latest cm7? Or still hold HDB tight tight?
Hold HDB, only Singaporean can rent out their HDB.
Hold HDB, only Singaporean can rent out their HDB.
If he has only one property, how to rent out hdb??
if he is looking for upgrade in lifestyle, yest, good time to sell hdb and move on to condo (so tat can get the absd refunded).
Maybe it is time to consider selling HDB, in particular an old HDB flat.
Those restrictions starting from July will make selling an old HDB an issue.
Thanks,
Richard
bakasa2002
15-01-13, 23:01
Good time to sell HDB and move to a condo in view of latest cm7? Or still hold HDB tight tight?
If u sell hdb and condo price don't cm down ... How?
Good time to sell HDB and move to a condo in view of latest cm7? Or still hold HDB tight tight?
Keep HDB coz only singaproean own and 1st home
Sell BAckside.. coz only 1 per person also.
then buy private condo.... and rest the back.!
this may be the beginning of cm on hdb. Long term, hdb will be less and less an investment vehicle ie. cannot rent out all ...we see ...soon
Always said, Singaporeans be careful what you wished for...
+80% own HDB... If crash, all on this small island also die together...
Sigh!
:47:
Yesterday strait times forum page someone wrote to request cooling measure to be permenant. How come no one wrote to strait times to request cm to be remove?? It is more often those complainers wrote in.
maybe all hdb owners should go to MPS and raise an issue with MP..
Yesterday strait times forum page someone wrote to request cooling measure to be permenant. How come no one wrote to strait times to request cm to be remove?? It is more often those complainers wrote in.
Capitalism rewards the rich. On the other hand, a good society must help the poor or at least appear to be helping the poor. This is where we are.
The community which has neither poverty nor riches will always have the noblest principles. (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/p/plato403379.html)
Plato
Always said, Singaporeans be careful what you wished for...
+80% own HDB... If crash, all on this small island also die together...
Sigh!
:47:
Think deeper!
Yes! 80% own HDB flats. Perhaps, 70% own their only flat. If crash, only 30% not happy; the remaining 70% are not affected.
Think deeper!
Yes! 80% own HDB flats. Perhaps, 70% own their only flat. If crash, only 30% not happy; the remaining 70% are not affected.
Cannot say own :tsk-tsk: ... It is just a special type of rental flat.. That mean if you rent the flat for 30 years, it will be yours...
Think deeper!
Yes! 80% own HDB flats. Perhaps, 70% own their only flat. If crash, only 30% not happy; the remaining 70% are not affected.
are you saying 30% has private property as well? so if 30% of 80%, it translates to 24% has private which will make the total sum to be 104%. which means all private property owners has a hdb? or did you mean somethingelse?
blackapple
16-01-13, 11:14
For those with 2 or more properties, the immediate task is to build another down payment for the next property..
If the crash come, the down payment can help to tide other properties. If the drop is not deep, maybe can buy next property..
So hold your horse and wait.... Either way you WIN!!!
Always said, Singaporeans be careful what you wished for...
+80% own HDB... If crash, all on this small island also die together...
Sigh!
:47:
this is one of the most commonly repeated but stupid statement I have seen in this forum....
"80% own hdb so 80% will want HDB prices to rise"....
duh....
You know out of this 80% how many of them want to UPGRADE their property vs DOWNGRADE their property????
If you want to upgrade like most normal people, even if you own HDB you will want property prices to fall.
Allthepies
16-01-13, 19:51
this is one of the most commonly repeated but stupid statement I have seen in this forum....
"80% own hdb so 80% will want HDB prices to rise"....
duh....
You know out of this 80% how many of them want to UPGRADE their property vs DOWNGRADE their property????
If you want to upgrade like most normal people, even if you own HDB you will want property prices to fall.
how many ah? care to share?
I only know most people who want property to fall only for a short period of time (like a few months); but once they get their properties, they will wish it to cheong (99.5% of their lives)
how many ah? care to share?
I only know most people who want property to fall only for a short period of time (like a few months); but once they get their properties, they will wish it to cheong (99.5% of their lives)
Well said. We have been waiting for complainers to buy for too long. Time to cheong up.
this is one of the most commonly repeated but stupid statement I have seen in this forum....
"80% own hdb so 80% will want HDB prices to rise"....
duh....
You know out of this 80% how many of them want to UPGRADE their property vs DOWNGRADE their property????
If you want to upgrade like most normal people, even if you own HDB you will want property prices to fall.
Totally agreed with u! Many of the people I know want property prices to fall so they can upgrade since HDB price will not fall as much as private condo! :) common sense!
Are you advocating a communist country regime? Only then everybody will be the same, no rich and no poor, got knowledge doesn't matter because will still be sent to do hard labor and blue collar job, everybody laze around waiting for the people next door to do all the work? What for work so hard and get the same as next door?
Capitalism rewards the rich. On the other hand, a good society must help the poor or at least appear to be helping the poor. This is where we are.
The community which has neither poverty nor riches will always have the noblest principles. (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/p/plato403379.html)
Plato
Very funny. Upgraders want property prices to crash before they upgrade?
Let's recollect the fact:
(1) Think back, during 2000-2005, very few upgraders (OCR private almost like dead town), because HDB prices almost never move after crashing >25% in tandem with private property prices. Bishan HDB selling about $550k in 1997 dropped to about $400k in 2003.
(2) Then come 2006-2012, private property prices move up, HDB prices move up even more, wah! So many hdb upgraders to private (look at huge volume of OCR private transactions!)! :scared-1:
So, as we can see, the most recent facts does not support your arguments.
this is one of the most commonly repeated but stupid statement I have seen in this forum....
"80% own hdb so 80% will want HDB prices to rise"....
duh....
You know out of this 80% how many of them want to UPGRADE their property vs DOWNGRADE their property????
If you want to upgrade like most normal people, even if you own HDB you will want property prices to fall.
how many ah? care to share?
I only know most people who want property to fall only for a short period of time (like a few months); but once they get their properties, they will wish it to cheong (99.5% of their lives)
whatever it is, saying like all 80% of HDB owners want property price to go up is just plain stupid.
Let me do some good and educate you.
http://www.propwise.sg/ask-mr-propwise-3-%E2%80%93-the-residential-stock-in-singapore/
According the the above website there is like 840k HDB and around 260k private property. Not counting multiple private property owners, I can tell you more than 2/3 of HDB owners DO NOT own a private property. you think these people want property price to go up or down???
If they are not thinking of upgrading and intend to stay in their HDB forever, you think they care about property price going up or down? If they want to buy a better place, you think they want property price to do up??
alamak common sense right....
Very funny. Upgraders want property prices to crash before they upgrade?
Let's recollect the fact:
(1) Think back, during 2000-2005, very few upgraders (OCR private almost like dead town), because HDB prices almost never move after crashing >25% in tandem with private property prices. Bishan HDB selling about $550k in 1997 dropped to about $400k in 2003.
(2) Then come 2006-2012, private property prices move up, HDB prices move up even more, wah! So many hdb upgraders to private (look at huge volume of OCR private transactions!)! :scared-1:
So, as we can see, the most recent facts does not support your arguments.
duh.... sigh....
people did not upgrade in 2000-2005 is not because they are not happy that the price is falling, it is because they think the property market will fall even more. During 2006-2012, people upgrade is not because they like the high property price, it is because they think the price will be higher. Given a choice, every upgrader will want to buy at low property price.
common, ask any upgrader, you want property price high or low?? this kind of thing also can argue...
Capitalism rewards the rich. On the other hand, a good society must help the poor or at least appear to be helping the poor. This is where we are.
The community which has neither poverty nor riches will always have the noblest principles. (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/p/plato403379.html)
Plato
Are you advocating a communist country regime? Only then everybody will be the same, no rich and no poor, got knowledge doesn't matter because will still be sent to do hard labor and blue collar job, everybody laze around waiting for the people next door to do all the work? What for work so hard and get the same as next door?
My apology if my statement and the quote from Plato sounded too profile to some people. It is certainly not the effect I set to create.
My statement simply means that we are operating under a Capitalism system where it generally rewards the rich. To be a great society under a Capitaliem sysyem, the community needs to help the poor or at least appear to helping the poor. This is where our society is right now.
The quote by the great Greek philosopher (Plato) suggests that the noblest principles only exist in society where there is neither proverty nor riches. In another word, society where there is great divide in income disparity, it is difficult to have the noblest principles. We are about to be one or already are.
To be equal is not good.
If everyone is equally rich or poor, each one may try other evil ways to be better than others.
When there are some poor and rich people, practically
The poor will work hard to reach their desired status,
While the rich will give more to charity and society.
But because of unpractical way human are living,
Each country need to have a common and agreed control to set a desired rules.
To be equal is not good.
If everyone is equally rich or poor, each one may try other evil ways to be better than others.
When there are some poor and rich people, practically
The poor will work hard to reach their desired status,
While the rich will give more to charity and society.
But because of unpractical way human are living,
Each country need to have a common and agreed control to set a desired rules.
The income disparity in Singapore is widening and the government is aware that without proper management, there will be social divide or even social unrest like in some other countries. When such society having the 'Nobles' making decisions and policies, it is difficult to achieve fairness or "noblest principles" in Plato's words.
Allthepies
16-01-13, 23:17
That day I was taking MRT I saw a blind couple making their way through the MRT gantry and up the escalator. The guy was infront with his walking stick leading the lady behind.
I suddenly has a very strong emotion stirring in me and I feel that I'm really very fortunate to be able to see and walk. I realise we should be more appreciative of what we have right now, rather than to complain and jealous of what others have.
That day I was taking MRT I saw a blind couple making their way through the MRT gantry and up the escalator. The guy was infront with his walking stick leading the lady behind.
I suddenly has a very strong emotion stirring in me and I feel that I'm really very fortunate to be able to see and walk. I realise we should be more appreciative of what we have right now, rather than to complain and jealous of what others have.
Great thoughts to have!
duh.... sigh....
people did not upgrade in 2000-2005 is not because they are not happy that the price is falling, it is because they think the property market will fall even more. During 2006-2012, people upgrade is not because they like the high property price, it is because they think the price will be higher. Given a choice, every upgrader will want to buy at low property price.
common, ask any upgrader, you want property price high or low?? this kind of thing also can argue...
I tend to agree with you. Buyer (especially upgrader) will want to buy low (thus hope for price to crash) while seller would always want prices to go up.
Why do I say this? For an upgrader within the same locality (eg Kim Tian HDB to Meraprime), he usually has to pay more in times when ppty is high vs when ppty price is low due to the widening gap in adsolute amount EVEN if both ppty increase the same amount in % terms due to the fact HDB has a lower base. And even if HDB increase at a higher %, its usually still not enough to close the gap on the higher base of a PC.
In 2006:
Kim Tian Resale 5 Rm HDB ~ $500k }
Meraprime 3 bedder ~ $800k } Spread $300k
In 2013
Kim Tian Resale 5 Rm HDB ~ $980k (+ 96%, + $480k) }
Meraprime 3 bedder ~ $1.7m ( +113%, + $900k) } Spread $720k
Thus, when price increase, it usually cost more to upgrade.
Of coz the above example is just 1 isolated case but in general i think it applies to many cases. Where it does not apply, usually its due to the old age of LH Condos > 10 yrs old. Eg, Comparison between Dover Close HDB Flats vs Heritage View Condos over the same period.
And this applies even for multiple ppty owners who are looking to buy. Being a multiple ppty owner, he is already of the opinion ppty makes investment sense and will rise in the long run. Thus it never hurts to buy on price weakness.
I was actually looking to buy a 3rd ppty but due to CM7, I have decided the govt message is clear. Let the 1st timers buy now...dun join the crowd and create more demand. Investors, and to a certain extent, upgraders, you can wait awhile more. Prices will not run away. And even before CM7 when I was holding 2 ppty, I dun mind price correction because I'm looking to buy my 3rd ppty....
Anyway, now's the time to take a back seat as ABSD and lower LTV makes it that bit harder to buy the 3rd ppty.
Totally agreed with u! Many of the people I know want property prices to fall so they can upgrade since HDB price will not fall as much as private condo! :) common sense!
but hor.. once they bot that bigger flat, they wish it will cheong (or maybe they dun care). but i dun tink they want it to drop, becoz they will bang wall coz could have got it cheaper. if it cheong, at least they can tell everyone they making money after getting it cheap.
so conclusion.. other than this short few months (as someone mentioned earlier), during which they want the price to fall, after that they want it up. the rest of the general population either dun care (coz they are more concerned abt daily bread issue).
That day I was taking MRT I saw a blind couple making their way through the MRT gantry and up the escalator. The guy was infront with his walking stick leading the lady behind.
I suddenly has a very strong emotion stirring in me and I feel that I'm really very fortunate to be able to see and walk. I realise we should be more appreciative of what we have right now, rather than to complain and jealous of what others have.
Yes. When i saw autism kids, i feel so happy and blessed that my kids are normal, and the thought that they must go to the top schools are gone. But the competitive nature of our country and peers around us will repeatedly remind us that we still need to get our kids to the better school..... this leads me to think of selling my HDB to move to a condo with a good primary school (although we do have another private one but is not near any good school).
whatever it is, saying like all 80% of HDB owners want property price to go up is just plain stupid.
Let me do some good and educate you.
http://www.propwise.sg/ask-mr-propwise-3-%E2%80%93-the-residential-stock-in-singapore/
According the the above website there is like 840k HDB and around 260k private property. Not counting multiple private property owners, I can tell you more than 2/3 of HDB owners DO NOT own a private property. you think these people want property price to go up or down???
If they are not thinking of upgrading and intend to stay in their HDB forever, you think they care about property price going up or down? If they want to buy a better place, you think they want property price to do up??
alamak common sense right....
As consumers, we must learn to understand what is a sale puff. Very often, we are blinded by what we called salesman's puff.
Unfortunately, under Common Law, salesman's puff is not blinding as long as it is does not lead to Mispresentation.
Below are some of the salesman's puffs I often heard from real estate agents:
1. Don't worry! govt will not let property crash one; because 80% (of population) stay in HDB flats will suffer (real classic)
2. Property is long term, even you buy HIGH now, it will go higher
3. This one sure make money one! Got potential (en bloc)
4. If you can hold, don't worry! You sure make money later.
When we decided to make a purchase, sometime these salesman's puffs do make us feel good about our decision.
2. Property is long term, even you buy HIGH now, it will go higher
4. If you can hold, don't worry! You sure make money later.
actually point 2 is true. the caveat is - how long, and got take into account interest cost and inflation or not? anyone here dare to bet with me.. 30 yrs later. in absolute $$ term, it will NOT go higher? :tongue3:
point 4 is also true. but again, sure make money is net of interest or inflation or not. also, how many pple really know whether they "can hold" or not? other than like i said b4, the top top 0.5% creme of the creme who are well sought after.
actually point 2 is true. the caveat is - how long, and got take into account interest cost and inflation or not? anyone here dare to bet with me.. 30 yrs later. in absolute $$ term, it will NOT go higher? :tongue3:
point 4 is also true. but again, sure make money is net of interest or inflation or not. also, how many pple really know whether they "can hold" or not? other than like i said b4, the top top 0.5% creme of the creme who are well sought after.
True or not true depends on your risk profile and investment horizon. Please see below:
http://www.singaporepropertycycle.com.sg/smallcharts/Singapore-Property-Price-Index.jpg (http://www.singaporepropertycycle.com.sg/property-cycles/singapore-property-cycle-summary-of-past-cycles/)
Perhaps, the property price index can help those who are not sure to make a decision.
Singapore real estate took off in 1990 and within just 23 years, we experience "4 peaks" or "cycles" including today. Those who bought in 1996 are still being punished largely considering the time value of money and opportunity cost. Those who had no holding power and bought in 2000 were also punished. Of course those who have long holding power and bought in the peak of 2000 would have been rewarded today.
With the price index "plateauing" now, those who bought over the last 3 years and may be making paper gain of 20% or 30% but are finding it difficult to find buyers base on today's asking price. Their "profits" if any are also erroded by seller's stamp duty.
Knowing that the upside (if any) is going to be limited with continuous government's interventions, we should be caution in property investment especially if one does not have long holding power.
If we are talking about the next 30 years, be prepared to experience at least another 4 cycles.
Timing the cycle can be difficult but buying at the right price and at the right time can be very rewarding.
Very funny. Upgraders want property prices to crash before they upgrade?
Let's recollect the fact:
(1) Think back, during 2000-2005, very few upgraders (OCR private almost like dead town), because HDB prices almost never move after crashing >25% in tandem with private property prices. Bishan HDB selling about $550k in 1997 dropped to about $400k in 2003.
(2) Then come 2006-2012, private property prices move up, HDB prices move up even more, wah! So many hdb upgraders to private (look at huge volume of OCR private transactions!)! :scared-1:
So, as we can see, the most recent facts does not support your arguments.
hahhah totally agree.. When it happens many dare not enter. My take these folks will never enter. up too high down too scared.
actually point 2 is true. the caveat is - how long, and got take into account interest cost and inflation or not? anyone here dare to bet with me.. 30 yrs later. in absolute $$ term, it will NOT go higher? :tongue3:
point 4 is also true. but again, sure make money is net of interest or inflation or not. also, how many pple really know whether they "can hold" or not? other than like i said b4, the top top 0.5% creme of the creme who are well sought after.
aiyah no need to explain. those who wating will never buy even in a crash. coz scared shitless and hoping it go even lower!
aiyah no need to explain. those who wating will never buy even in a crash. coz scared shitless and hoping it go even lower!
Such statement adds no value to any forum. Instead of engaging with the contents of the subject, the writer chose to make grossly wrong assumption about others or make a puff statement about others when face with differing ideas that are not consistent with their own. A very weak attempt.
the TS was asking if its a good time for one to sell HDB and buy a PC
my simplistic view after reading all the comments on this thread.
PC prices drop, HDB price will also drop. some view that the HDB price drop will not be as much as the PC price drop. if that's the case, then shouldn't every HDB upgrader sell HDB now, shift to rental for 24 months, then take their time to buy a PC?
no offence, your comment doesn't add value either...be open, thats the spirit of being in a forum. anything u dont like to hear, just ignore. everyone of us comes from different walks of life; respect and be respected. :o
just my opinion, not to pick up with you. :2cents:
we are here to share and learn. but that doesnt make u a teacher or lecturer. :o
Such statement adds no value to any forum. Instead of engaging with the contents of the subject, the writer chose to make grossly wrong assumption about others or make a puff statement about others when face with differing ideas that are not consistent with their own. A very weak attempt.
no offence, your comment doesn't add value either...be open, thats the spirit of being in a forum. anything u dont like to hear, just ignore. everyone of us comes from different walks of life; respect and be respected. :o
just my opinion, not to pick up with you. :2cents:
we are here to share and learn. but that doesnt make u a teacher or lecturer. :o
There is a different between sharing and bashing.
no offence, your comment doesn't add value either...be open, thats the spirit of being in a forum. anything u dont like to hear, just ignore. everyone of us comes from different walks of life; respect and be respected. :o
just my opinion, not to pick up with you. :2cents:
we are here to share and learn. but that doesnt make u a teacher or lecturer. :o
i agree with you. we need freedom of speech. :D
Enough said for me...freedom prevails...:o
There is a different between sharing and bashing.
When the same people started bashing Seleter and others, did it occur to these people the right to free speech?
To enjoy the benefit of free speech, one must respect each other even if we disagree.
we are here to share and learn. but that doesnt make u a teacher or lecturer. :o
... I guess the last line was subtle enough it went unnoticed ;)
i agree w you.. that's why i making plans to exit hdb, hoot one MMM.. krkrkr..
this may be the beginning of cm on hdb. Long term, hdb will be less and less an investment vehicle ie. cannot rent out all ...we see ...soon
in my opinion, hdb should never be viewed as an investment vehicle. it is the sg citz first asset (unless u are born with silver spoon or has ignored it even when u have a chance) and the garmen has long seen it as retirement asset for sg citz. so if you have it and rent it out within those rules, u should be safe and it is given to you...:p
it should give u the best yield then your MM and never never sell your hdb, as someone once said! even when your hdb is 30-40yrs old, it is still more valuable than your LH PC...:rolleyes:
:2cents: :2cents:
i agree w you.. that's why i making plans to exit hdb, hoot one MMM.. krkrkr..
... I guess the last line was subtle enough it went unnoticed ;)
It went "unnoticed" because it was base on his own assumption. At least he was not bashing others. Such comments should be ignored.
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