View Full Version : 200 SMRT bus drivers refuse to go to work over pay issue
Source: http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/200-smrt-bus-drivers-refuse-go-work-over-pay-issue-20121126
GG. Coe prices gonna go up, condo prices near mrt gonna go up
wow is this the first strike in so many decades or since independence?:doh:
Not sure what is the point of them striking ?
To hold Singapore ransom ?
If you maid refuse to cook dinner because your neighbour's maid got an increment she didnt (and she thinks she deserves it, but you dont think so), what will you do ?
Answer is clear...
If I go to my Boss (Manager of Office Admin) and say I wont send documents anymore until I get the same increment as the ang mos in my office, guess what they will tell me ?
Answer is clear ...
DKSG
Let them go back if they are not happy here.
... and our roads will be less dangerous:)
... and our roads will be less dangerous:)
Confirm. Chop. Sign.
But dont worry la .. when this batch of 200 go back, there will be another 200 applying to come over.
You know drive bus in China earn how much ?
I also dont know, but I think certainly worth their effort to be posted here.
DKSG
Not sure what is the point of them striking ?
To hold Singapore ransom ?
If you maid refuse to cook dinner because your neighbour's maid got an increment she didnt (and she thinks she deserves it, but you dont think so), what will you do ?
Answer is clear...
If I go to my Boss (Manager of Office Admin) and say I wont send documents anymore until I get the same increment as the ang mos in my office, guess what they will tell me ?
Answer is clear ...
DKSG
they have been in sgp too long and think they are FT
The mere fact that we let it happened is a disgrace.
a bunch of softie and sissy we have become...
bakasa2002
26-11-12, 21:45
The mere fact that we let it happened is a disgrace.
a bunch of softie and sissy we have become...
It just shows how much we have become dependent on them and it's hard to wean business off. Try telling them biz owners who have all along been having easy access to cheap labour that your costs gonna increase more by employing a local and you gonna make less per mth ....
Case in point, Malaysian SMRT drivers get paid more than their Chinese counterpart ...
Soon we may have MRT station staff and train drivers going on strike haa ha a haa.... :p
Soon we may have MRT station staff and train drivers going on strike haa ha a haa.... :p
是曠工不是罷工。。。mass media very careful with the words.
是曠工不是罷工。。。mass media very careful with the words.
to save some people's blushes? :o
how dare they go on strike when they are not even citizens or PRs.
tell them to piss off.
Soon we may have MRT station staff and train drivers going on strike haa ha a haa.... :p
actually this sort of incident are not funny.....
bargain hunter
26-11-12, 22:24
the point is smrt is NEGOTIATING WITH THEM. ang chia police come already also only to MAINTAIN ORDER. they strike and still don't get arrested and get to negotiate somemore!
this is now a serious problem for us. its not as simple as asking them to go back.
bakasa2002
26-11-12, 22:57
the point is smrt is NEGOTIATING WITH THEM. ang chia police come already also only to MAINTAIN ORDER. they strike and still don't get arrested and get to negotiate somemore!
this is now a serious problem for us. its not as simple as asking them to go back.
Indeed, if we ask 102 of them to go back, our buses won't be able to run normally for the interim. If we nego w them, we be setting precedence. No win situation. That's y our founding father take a v strong stance against strike and the impact it has on the reputation of SG. Anyone rem alpha-s? :D
I understand they also blocked the gates preventing other bus captains from going to work. They have committed an offence relating to an unlawful assembly under the penal code. They should be charged in court and punished. Nobody, least of all, foreigners, should come to this country, commit an offence and get away with it.
If we gave in to the demands, we could set a ourselves for dangerous precedent...
Most of you miss another thing...
There is another interesting confirmation through this incident. While online forums everywhere reported the story by 1500hrs, channelnewsasia and STnews remained quiet, as if waiting for instruction on what to report. Only after 1623hrs was the news reported on ST website. The board members probably held an urgent meeting ...Lol. :scared-2:
So this confirms once again that ST and CNA are controlled media. Not accurate at all!!! :rolleyes:
Most of you miss another thing...
There is another interesting confirmation through this incident. While online forums everywhere reported the story by 1500hrs, channelnewsasia and STnews remained quiet, as if waiting for instruction on what to report. Only after 1623hrs was the news reported on ST website. The board members probably held an urgent meeting ...Lol. :scared-2:
So this confirms once again that ST and CNA are controlled media. Not accurate at all!!! :rolleyes:
aiyo.. nothing new. we all know long long ago.
the interesting thing is... if the 102 men were banglah, indian, filipino... not PRC. would the treatment be different? throw straight into jail?
who is being protected here? SMRT (to ensure efficient running of buses)? PRC becoz of their nationality? or... ? alot of politics behind. it is not about us becoming softie or what. and what is 102 men? i think easily can recruit from malaysia lor. SGD2k/mth=RM$5k leh.
Most of you miss another thing...
There is another interesting confirmation through this incident. While online forums everywhere reported the story by 1500hrs, channelnewsasia and STnews remained quiet, as if waiting for instruction on what to report. Only after 1623hrs was the news reported on ST website. The board members probably held an urgent meeting ...Lol. :scared-2:
So this confirms once again that ST and CNA are controlled media. Not accurate at all!!! :rolleyes:
aiyo pls. every1 shud know that by heart liao brudder.
conrad raj always sing his own tunes also was frm TODAY not the above... but sometimes he sing off key one la. but hor but hor.... same parent company with CNA leh... so tell me where got true free media in SG.
so tell me where got true free media in SG.
lian he wan bao and xin ming, considered semi free media?? they were the ones who spill the beans on cecilia sue and co. but maybe also pre-meditated move.
Their salary of 1.1k is actually quite low compare to the Malaysian. but then, is accomodation provided for the PRC or they have to fork out their own? if they have to fork out their own, then how to survive?
bus drivers strike - bo dai chee
SIA pilots mention about pay hike - a prominent Lee intervenes and issues a warning
http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2003/12/03/lee-kuan-yew-govt-cannot-let-pilots-have-their-way/
talk about the difference in harshness of how both incidents were handled. begs to think that bus drivers are more precious than pilots??!
Their salary of 1.1k is actually quite low compare to the Malaysian. but then, is accomodation provided for the PRC or they have to fork out their own? if they have to fork out their own, then how to survive?
news mentioned they stay in their dormitary refuse to go to work. means got lodging. i'm quite sure the malaysians dun have lodging. always see them ride bike home. SMRT shld ask the PRC go fly kite, get their own lodging. like that our HDB got more tenants also.
lian he wan bao and xin ming, considered semi free media?? they were the ones who spill the beans on cecilia sue and co. but maybe also pre-meditated move.
have you been to NS?
then u shud know that the wayang is good guys is me bad guys also me... left hand and right hand and even buttock also i act.
u juat pay ur dues to sit back relac watch the show...
Imagine suddenly no bus services. Lots of people will be very upset. SMRT CEO will be very busy. PRCs drivers must have been felt cheated after coming over. Malaysian drivers are getting at least 2k plus. No wonder buses on the roads are quite reckless and cars have to give way to them. Pity our elderly who cannot speak mandarin.
bus drivers strike - bo dai chee
SIA pilots mention about pay hike - a prominent Lee intervenes and issues a warning
http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2003/12/03/lee-kuan-yew-govt-cannot-let-pilots-have-their-way/
talk about the difference in harshness of how both incidents were handled. begs to think that bus drivers are more precious than pilots??!
lian he wan bao and xin ming, considered semi free media?? they were the ones who spill the beans on cecilia sue and co. but maybe also pre-meditated move.Wan bao more protected, only xin ming is semi media.. yesterday's paper only xin ming reported the strike incident. Wan bao headline is about a son throwing his father out of the house or somthing like that.
Also you noticed that today's ST did not use the word 'strike' coz politically sensitive. Only said workers did not report to work... Lol!
A nice wake up call to policy makers who look for the easy way out by importing cheap foreign labor to suppress cost so as to remain 'competitive'.
Their salary of 1.1k is actually quite low compare to the Malaysian. but then, is accomodation provided for the PRC or they have to fork out their own? if they have to fork out their own, then how to survive?The issue here is mismanagment. If lodgin plus salary is provided for the PRC drivers, then it must be told them properly that their Malaysian counterparts don't have accomodation. Also, it must be properly conveyed to them concerning their bonus issue this year coz think this was one of the problem surfaced. Don't talk properly and make PRC drivers happy no wonder got 'strike' lah...
SMRT very busy... last year service disruption, this year 'strike'... interesting. Minister invited to PM office to lim kopi today liaoz! :rolleyes:
Imagine suddenly no bus services. Lots of people will be very upset. SMRT CEO will be very busy. PRCs drivers must have been felt cheated after coming over. Malaysian drivers are getting at least 2k plus. No wonder buses on the roads are quite reckless and cars have to give way to them. Pity our elderly who cannot speak mandarin.If language was an issue for the lower pay, then SMRT must consider their method of employment and interview. If language inefficiency compromises the standards of their bus services, then SMRT shouldn't employ them in the first place. They cannot employ people who cannot meet a first class transportation standard only to give them half the pay others are getting. I know that PRC workers are also employed in construction sites and education services but these sectors do not require english speaking PRCs so standards are not compromised. How can SMRT cite language inability as one of the reason for lower pay? They merely shot their own foot!!! :tsk-tsk:
mismanagement is the word.
HR and comms failure - why the differences in pay hike between 2 groups not communicated clear and well to stakeholders? in the first place, why the difference? now conclaves are created within the company :doh:
Management failure - why didn't detect the displeasure earlier? weren't there warning signs when they attempted to make the drivers work longer hours, under the guise of 'increasing' their pay? NTUC and some dimwit MP came out in full defence of SMRT's decision
by giving in, what kind of signal is management sending to the rest within the organization? how to manage morale issues and cultural undercurrents?
60 PRC drivers didn't turn up for work today and will be arrested by police... why police??? why? If you didn't report to work, will your boss send police to arrest you? Only on pretext of an impending strike therefore police are called, certainly not coz didn't come to work... sigh! Singapore still attractive for business companies next year? :(
Their salary of 1.1k is actually quite low compare to the Malaysian. but then, is accomodation provided for the PRC or they have to fork out their own? if they have to fork out their own, then how to survive?
nothing is free.. accom have to be paid. could be by employer. coz for construction worker employer have to pay for the dom fees. can amount to abt $400+ a bed.
Otherwise, how can they pay dividends to the shareholders. Should not be privatised in the first place.
[/quote] HR and comms failure - why the differences in pay hike between 2 groups not communicated clear and well to stakeholders? in the first place, why the difference? now conclaves are created within the company :doh:
Management failure - why didn't detect the displeasure earlier? weren't there warning signs when they attempted to make the drivers work longer hours, under the guise of 'increasing' their pay? NTUC and some dimwit MP came out in full defence of SMRT's decision
by giving in, what kind of signal is management sending to the rest within the organization? how to manage morale issues and cultural undercurrents?[/quote]
[quote=DC33_2008]Otherwise, how can they pay dividends to the shareholders. Should be not be privatised in the first place.]
same sentiments, public services should never be privatised.
Bus and Train services in switzerland are also not privatised. Why Singapore? Reasons could be Profit and Liability.
[quote=DC33_2008]Otherwise, how can they pay dividends to the shareholders. Should be not be privatised in the first place.]
same sentiments, public services should never be privatised.
PRCs drivers must have been felt cheated after coming over. .
don't agree. if all demand same pay for same job, then can we also demand for angmo pay and package? after all they also NATO.
the world is unfair. accept it. even u ask construction sector, for the same job, different nationalities get diff pay.
Bus and Train services in switzerland are also not privatised. Why Singapore? Reasons could be Profit and Liability.
bigger question is why utility services also privatised and then sold off.
So that they can increase electrical rates as and when barrel of crude oil goes up. BTW, one of the power plant in singapore is sold to the Chinese.
bigger question is why utility services also privatised and then sold off.
[quote=DC33_2008]Bus and Train services in switzerland are also not privatised. Why Singapore? Reasons could be Profit and Liability.
could be?? you're too kind with your words. there are no other reasons that to milk us citizens
oh yess sack all of them. i don't think singapore's transport system will crumble over some foreign trash.
SINGAPORE: SMRT confirms that 60 of the 102 drivers involved in a wage protest on Monday did not show up for work on Tuesday.
A statement from SMRT says that some 60 drivers "did not turn up for work in the morning, some of whom have valid medical reasons."
SMRT adds that some bus services may have been affected on Tuesday morning as a result, and it has activated other drivers to assist.
"We continue to keep our communications open with the Service Leaders, and are also working with the relevant authorities to find an amicable resolution," says the statement.
According to TODAY's tweets, police are at a dorm for the SMRT drivers and two police cars are spotted.
TODAY's tweets also quoted an SMRT source as saying that no arrests have been made and that those who do not turn up for work on Tuesday will be sacked.
Channel NewsAsia understands that a doctor is at the Woodlands dormitory, where the drivers are staying at, to check if they have valid reasons to be absent from work.
- CNA/ck
They probably think that they are in their own country.
oh yess sack all of them. i don't think singapore's transport system will crumble over some foreign trash.
SINGAPORE: SMRT confirms that 60 of the 102 drivers involved in a wage protest on Monday did not show up for work on Tuesday.
A statement from SMRT says that some 60 drivers "did not turn up for work in the morning, some of whom have valid medical reasons."
SMRT adds that some bus services may have been affected on Tuesday morning as a result, and it has activated other drivers to assist.
"We continue to keep our communications open with the Service Leaders, and are also working with the relevant authorities to find an amicable resolution," says the statement.
According to TODAY's tweets, police are at a dorm for the SMRT drivers and two police cars are spotted.
TODAY's tweets also quoted an SMRT source as saying that no arrests have been made and that those who do not turn up for work on Tuesday will be sacked.
Channel NewsAsia understands that a doctor is at the Woodlands dormitory, where the drivers are staying at, to check if they have valid reasons to be absent from work.
- CNA/ck
oh yess sack all of them. i don't think singapore's transport system will crumble over some foreign trash.
TODAY's tweets also quoted an SMRT source as saying that no arrests have been made and that those who do not turn up for work on Tuesday will be sacked.
- CNA/ck
Yes. It is time we Singaporeans stand united and bear with some temporary inconveniences to do what is right.
if they get sacked, does it mean their work permit is invalid and have to piss off back? we wouldn't want them loitering around right.
if they get sacked, does it mean their work permit is invalid and have to piss off back? we wouldn't want them loitering around right.
SMRT has up to 7 days to repatriate the workers.
if they get sacked, does it mean their work permit is invalid and have to piss off back? we wouldn't want them loitering around right.
Before SMRT acts, MOM will invalidate their work permits very soon. If LKY was still the PM, they would be back home in China by today.
Why SMRT got so much problem? Qs... when domestic helpers were drawing low wages, respective government complained and now min wage is at least $100 more. Last time Pinoy helpers command higher salary. Now Indo helpers are asking v high salaries too. Think if China govt complained, how will Singapore respond? :rolleyes:
So that they can increase electrical rates as and when barrel of crude oil goes up. BTW, one of the power plant in singapore is sold to the Chinese.
exactly ... why is strategic asset sold off to outsider? :beats-me-man: :beats-me-man:
Before SMRT acts, MOM will invalidate their work permits very soon. If LKY was still the PM, they would be back home in China by today.
heh, news reports state that 'some' of the 60, who didn't turn up for work, have valid medical reasons.
1 out of 60 is 'some'. 59 out of 60 is also considered 'some'. if it's truly diahhorea and fever, better send in NEA since there's suspicions of a disease outbreak.
to SMRT: if no guts to sack and repatriate them, just admit it.
just send in the tanks lah
just send in the tanks lah
and turn this into TianAnMen?!
heh, news reports state that 'some' of the 60, who didn't turn up for work, have valid medical reasons.
1 out of 60 is 'some'. 59 out of 60 is also considered 'some'. if it's truly diahhorea and fever, better send in NEA since there's suspicions of a disease outbreak.
to SMRT: if no guts to sack and repatriate them, just admit it.
Hard to sack, no replacements. Can't hire and train in time.
The China drivers got them by the balls.... that's what a strike does, that's why strikes are illegal. If they were more organised and had leadership they could have gone the work-to-rule way. Technically legal but still crippling.
SMRT is not foxconn leh and SG is not China/Taiwan leh. these FTs really power... soon they will set fire to buses in SG if we don't clamp down on such irresponsible actions.
also, sure msians are paid more.. but as some aredi pointed out, they hafta pay for their own transport and accomodation.. plus maybe the msians are more experienced and worked with SMRT much longer leh.. what's the gripe about? pos... :mad:
Hard to sack, no replacements. Can't hire and train in time.
The China drivers got them by the balls.... that's what a strike does, that's why strikes are illegal. If they were more organised and had leadership they could have gone the work-to-rule way. Technically legal but still crippling.
on the contrary, i think it's easy to sack and replace. just pay a little more and hire malaysians?! easy, isn't it? the extra manpower expenses is just a droplet compared to the hundreds of millions of annual profit.
heh, news reports state that 'some' of the 60, who didn't turn up for work, have valid medical reasons.
1 out of 60 is 'some'. 59 out of 60 is also considered 'some'. if it's truly diahhorea and fever, better send in NEA since there's suspicions of a disease outbreak.
to SMRT: if no guts to sack and repatriate them, just admit it.
If you do not sack them , it will spread and get worst next time. The govt will not want to send the wrong message. We can't afford this attitude in Singapore.
shud start a poll to ask who thinks they should be sacked and sent home. sure hit 100% yes.
tot new ceo is ex army chief? so bo ji?
Hard to sack, no replacements. Can't hire and train in time.
The China drivers got them by the balls.... that's what a strike does, that's why strikes are illegal. If they were more organised and had leadership they could have gone the work-to-rule way. Technically legal but still crippling.
Well the HR will need to learn how to handle thus. Coz it's a culture thing. China culture always like sit in protest. Remeber many yes back china tourist was not happy with the meal treatment in genting Malaysia also same sit in protest. SMRT just have to learn how to handle it.
Priority is restore service level then deal with the culprit. I bet the drivers are also not expecting contract renewal anyway. So nothing to loose to try. Tats the mind set.
If you do not sack them , it will spread and get worst next time. The govt will not want to send the wrong message. We can't afford this attitude in Singapore.
I think they have tough choice to make . At I've hand must prevent this from happening again. On the other restore service level without further impact.
[quote=DC33_2008]Bus and Train services in switzerland are also not privatised. Why Singapore? Reasons could be Profit and Liability.
could be?? you're too kind with your words. there are no other reasons that to milk us citizens
Milk? Hah hah so naive
Not sure what is the point of them striking ?
To hold Singapore ransom ?
If you maid refuse to cook dinner because your neighbour's maid got an increment she didnt (and she thinks she deserves it, but you dont think so), what will you do ?
Answer is clear...
If I go to my Boss (Manager of Office Admin) and say I wont send documents anymore until I get the same increment as the ang mos in my office, guess what they will tell me ?
Answer is clear ...
DKSG
Sure can if u hold more value ? Many people do that these days especially the young. Get a 2nd offer after 12mth abit $ diff don't match will jump. Works for 1 time but won't work the next. Loose credibility. Such tactics are nothing new.
on the contrary, i think it's easy to sack and replace. just pay a little more and hire malaysians?! easy, isn't it? the extra manpower expenses is just a droplet compared to the hundreds of millions of annual profit.
I think they will swap some of the current batch out over time . But u can sack then now coz will cause disruption to service.
Malaysian? Well for 1 wat make u think they won't strike? Just pack up don't come to work. Is very common that's why the preference was to Chinese work force coz there is bond. Plus is costly for them to just pack up n go home without making $$.
I don't agree u pay for more expensive drive u won't have same problem. Look at England , Paris always strike.
The problem is more than just paying more or certain national. A clearer hr policy n benefits plus better risk mgmt have to be in place. Without raising cost too much to impact fairs.
Well the HR will need to learn how to handle thus. Coz it's a culture thing. China culture always like sit in protest. Remeber many yes back china tourist was not happy with the meal treatment in genting Malaysia also same sit in protest. SMRT just have to learn how to handle it.
Priority is restore service level then deal with the culprit. I bet the drivers are also not expecting contract renewal anyway. So nothing to loose to try. Tats the mind set.
actually not just china. everywhere is the same. only sgp nobody bother to strike. why? cannot afford to lose job. time too expensive. better spend the time to earn money better.
now you know why govt make our cost of living so high. keep us busy lor.
just send in the tanks lah
Errr.. Desmond Kuek was the CO of 41SAR and subsequently other Armour formation appointments. Maybe he can. :)
The pay packages based on nationality seems discriminating on e surface. More details r needed on how e pay adjustment was made. I will b angry too if I were e Chinese drivers.
so it's official...it's illegal strike! anyone arrest already?
on the contrary, i think it's easy to sack and replace. just pay a little more and hire malaysians?! easy, isn't it? the extra manpower expenses is just a droplet compared to the hundreds of millions of annual profit.
The replacement time is going to be crippling.
You can sack, but to hire and train to road-ready requires lead time.
actually not just china. everywhere is the same. only sgp nobody bother to strike. why? cannot afford to lose job. time too expensive. better spend the time to earn money better.
now you know why govt make our cost of living so high. keep us busy lor.
i dont agree with that. its not time to expensive. Its becoz we have something to loose to strike. What they have done is make u own a piece of it. ur Hse ur lifstyle.
Its that a bad thing? Not really wat. You want to strike is becoz u feel u have nothing too loose. So I dont think thats a bad thing. It keeps the society stable.
u like to live in a place always strike? or riot?
Well the HR will need to learn how to handle thus. Coz it's a culture thing. China culture always like sit in protest. Remeber many yes back china tourist was not happy with the meal treatment in genting Malaysia also same sit in protest. SMRT just have to learn how to handle it.
Priority is restore service level then deal with the culprit. I bet the drivers are also not expecting contract renewal anyway. So nothing to loose to try. Tats the mind set.
I think it is out of SMRT hands now bcoz of the illegal nature of the activity.
Even if SMRT doesn't sack them, they have broken the law and risk being jailed, fined and possibly repatriated.
Sacking them and punishing them is but dealing with the surface only. There must be some internal problem that has fested for some time already. It cannot be that PRC drivers can organize themselves in such large number with full participation if there's no initial problems to begin with. Must still solve the root problem... these PRCs can go home and start life all over again but next year Singapore will drop in its ranking to attract businesses... we are the biggest loser if this is not managed well! :scared-4:
Then if China govt su ka su ka make some noise, we'll be too busy liaoz! :rolleyes:
I think it is out of SMRT hands now bcoz of the illegal nature of the activity.
Even if SMRT doesn't sack them, they have broken the law and risk being jailed, fined and possibly repatriated.
True make sense stop this from becoming a example. Or finger 1 or 2 leaders make a example of them for instigating a strike. and the rest cycle out in phase. If not SMRT need to quickly find replacement drivers to keep the service level.
actually not just china. everywhere is the same. only sgp nobody bother to strike. why? cannot afford to lose job. time too expensive. better spend the time to earn money better.
now you know why govt make our cost of living so high. keep us busy lor.
Not don't bother... it is illegal.
There are many ways to effect industrial action legally to get management to the negotiating table.
What these China drivers have done is more than an industrial action because a public service has been disrupted. It is akin to shutting off your water supply. They are not just holding SMRT ransom, they are holding the public ransom.
In a society with a mature industrial structure, a strike for a public service is made known well ahead so that the public can accomodate the disruptions.
Sacking them and punishing them is but dealing with the surface only. There must be some internal problem that has fested for some time already. It cannot be that PRC drivers can organize themselves in such large number with full participation if there's no initial problems to begin with. Must still solve the root problem... these PRCs can go home and start life all over again but next year Singapore will drop in its ranking to attract businesses... we are the biggest loser if this is not managed well! :scared-4:
Then if China govt su ka su ka make some noise, we'll be too busy liaoz! :rolleyes:
It may sound cruel but the truth is they came with their eyes open.
Their package is different from the Singaporeans and Malaysians because their package includes accomodation. They also cannot command same salaries because of language deficiency.
The Chinese embassy is watching this closely. Our government is in a tight spot. But we also must also act boldly less we become China's bitch.
It may sound cruel but the truth is they came with their eyes open.
Their package is different from the Singaporeans and Malaysians because their package includes accomodation. They also cannot command same salaries because of language deficiency.
The Chinese embassy is watching this closely. Our government is in a tight spot. But we also must also act boldly less we become China's bitch.It does not sound cruel, just a reality. This episode has certainly opened up Singapore's FW management policies for all to scrutinize.
One thing for sure, their treatment is so different from foreign domestic helpers. I know that domestic helpers get low pay (up to S$500/mth) also coz free accomodation plus free food and all. However, these helpers can actually break contract freely and they are actually protected by our policies. We as employers cannot deduct their pay for not finishing their contract and we still have to buy air tickets to send them home. My previous helper, upon knowing there was a pay increment in Singapore for all domestic helpers a year back, chose to break contract with us and went for a new employer to get higher pay... :(
Hard to sack, no replacements. Can't hire and train in time.
Ask SBS to cover some of SMRT's routes or borrow drivers from SBS, can? Left pocket, right pocket.
Ask SBS to cover some of SMRT's routes or borrow drivers from SBS, can? Left pocket, right pocket.Ask the Malaysian drivers to do 2 shifts and get double pay for a month or two till they get replacement for the (60 - those with genuine medical certs) PRC drivers. Some Malaysian drivers may accept the offer since its on a temporary basis and they earn so much more... :o
with police report filed by SmrT...arrest is next?
proud owner
27-11-12, 22:21
is singapore the only country where a Strike is illegal ?
in this aspect is spore truly first world if Strike is not allowed ?
The PRCs are certainly prepared to be repatriated. I say, we fine each of them $2,000 and send them to max 12 months imprisonment! That will teach them a lesson.
is singapore the only country where a Strike is illegal ?
in this aspect is spore truly first world if Strike is not allowed ?
Not illegal if proper procedures like 14 days notice etc, are followed.
Ask SBS to cover some of SMRT's routes or borrow drivers from SBS, can? Left pocket, right pocket.
Ask the Malaysian drivers to do 2 shifts and get double pay for a month or two till they get replacement for the (60 - those with genuine medical certs) PRC drivers. Some Malaysian drivers may accept the offer since its on a temporary basis and they earn so much more... :o
good ideas
proud owner
27-11-12, 22:42
Not illegal if proper procedures like 14 days notice etc, are followed.
so they could have informed SMRT about it 2 weeks ago ,,.. and what happened now would not be considered illegal ?
if strike is illegal .. but if giving 14 days notice etc ..makes it legal ..then thats as good as allowing a crime to be committed if it is well organised ..??!!!?? if it is a crime at all in the first place
what kind of logic is that ? coming from the govt ?
i dont get it at all ..
so they could have informed SMRT about it 2 weeks ago ,,.. and what happened now would not be considered illegal ?
if strike is illegal .. but if giving 14 days notice etc ..makes it legal ..then thats as good as allowing a crime to be committed if it is well organised ..??!!!?? if it is a crime at all in the first place
what kind of logic is that ? coming from the govt ?
i dont get it at all ..
Only strikes in water, gas and electrical services are illegal
proud owner
27-11-12, 22:50
Only strikes in water, gas and electrical services are illegal
ok
then why SMRT call police ?
and why should they be arrested ?
The bus service a public transport service considered an "essential" service by definition, it requires 14days notice for industrial action.
This is a big thing.... remember the Hock Lee bus riots in the 60s? All started with a strike.
so they could have informed SMRT about it 2 weeks ago ,,.. and what happened now would not be considered illegal ?
if strike is illegal .. but if giving 14 days notice etc ..makes it legal ..then thats as good as allowing a crime to be committed if it is well organised ..??!!!?? if it is a crime at all in the first place
what kind of logic is that ? coming from the govt ?
i dont get it at all ..
It is not a crime to go on strike if you give sufficient notice. If the employer chooses to ignore the advance notice given and not do anything about it, then the employer bears the consequences. You give the employer time to address the issues. Get it?
If you go on strike without notice esp for public service, you are holding everyone ransom.
The late Ong Teng Cheong sanctioned a strike many years ago in the marine industry when he was the labour chief. It was perfectly legal.
this one is a sensitive issue indeed. many faceted.
foreign worker grading policy
hr procedures
contingency planning
law
public transport
benefits
foreign bilateral relations
...
The bus service a public transport service considered an "esential" serive by definition requires 14days notice of industrial action.
This is a big thing.... remember the Hock Lee bus riots in the 60s? All started with a strike.The riot was on May 12 1955... but yes it all starts with a strike. Then again what is a strike? Then, those people went onto the streets with the intent to fight. That was a strike with intent to hurt! Today, these PRCs did not even stage a public display of their anger by parading down the streets with strong intent or violent behaviors. They only gathered in their dormitory. Is this a strike with no intent to hurt? Different leh!
Only strikes in water, gas and electrical services are illegal
Yup. Strikes in these 3 essential services are not allowed, whether notice is given or not.
The riot was on May 12 1955... but yes it all starts with a strike. Then again what is a strike? Then those people went onto the streets with the intent to fight. Today, these PRCs did not even stage a public display of their anger. They only gathered in their dormitory. Different leh!
That's why the police must be called in, just in case there is an escalation of emotions leading to who knows what....
The riot was on May 12 1955... but yes it all starts with a strike. Then again what is a strike? Then, those people went onto the streets with the intent to fight. That was a strike with intent to hurt! Today, these PRCs did not even stage a public display of their anger. They only gathered in their dormitory. Is this a strike with no intent to hurt? Different leh!
If you are a cleaner who was late for work because of this and got your pay docked, I think it hurts..
If you are a cleaner who was late for work because of this and got your pay docked, I think it hurts..Lol... I don't think any organization or company can dock the pay of an employee who was late because of this genuine circumstance. Its all over the news. That employer can get warning letter de... Lol... if you are late because MRT breakdown and kana docked pay... wah... that is news also.. ST will run a full page coverage of your company alongside the breakdown news... Lol! :D
The last recorded legal strike in Singapore, this was in 1986. Lasted only 2 days before it was called off and a deal was struck
http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Page/straitstimes19860105-1.1.11.aspx
That's why the police must be called in, just in case there is an escalation of emotions leading to who knows what....
Btw, the Hock Lee bus riots also started as a peaceful strike. You only need a trigger action.... one agitated bus driver may be all it takes to light the spark.
Imagine if some malicious rumour spreads that the China drivers were hit by their non-China workers or the police.... the retaliation of the other PRC inhabitants in Singapore could be huge.
After years of suffering the indignition of being the backward and poor cousin of Asia, the emerging Chinese are proud Chinese and a force to be dealt with. To get the police there to put nip in the bud is the correct thing.
Ask the Malaysian drivers to do 2 shifts and get double pay for a month or two till they get replacement for the (60 - those with genuine medical certs) PRC drivers. Some Malaysian drivers may accept the offer since its on a temporary basis and they earn so much more... :o
u also have to consider road safety.. driver too tired u get accident.
bargain hunter
28-11-12, 00:08
http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/singapore-police-stand-guard-smrt-080431130.html
no arrests made. hearsay
"A China embassy car has been spotted at the Woodlands dormitory, according to our reporter on the ground. Two people got out from the car and entered the hostel."
singaporeans keep saying arrest them, sack them, throw them in jail, fine them etc. better wake up, if these pple get away scott free, it is a real threat.
u also have to consider road safety.. driver too tired u get accident.True true... very important indeed!
http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/singapore-police-stand-guard-smrt-080431130.html
no arrests made. hearsay
"A China embassy car has been spotted at the Woodlands dormitory, according to our reporter on the ground. Two people got out from the car and entered the hostel."
singaporeans keep saying arrest them, sack them, throw them in jail, fine them etc. better wake up, if these pple get away scott free, it is a real threat.
It is basically a road of no return for these people... showhand! Either win big big or lose pok gai! :eek:
anyway MOM has finally called it a strike in MSM today... technically it is really illegal now.
just let legal proceedings take it's course.:)
bargain hunter
28-11-12, 08:15
i m more concerned about if they win. it shows how dependent and at the mercy of this certain nationality we are. :scared-4:
It is basically a road of no return for these people... showhand! Either win big big or lose pok gai! :eek:
It is basically a road of no return for these people... showhand! Either win big big or lose pok gai! :eek:
These ppl sure lose but the new group of drivers coming in will get better benefits. Hero always die first.:cool:
i m more concerned about if they win. it shows how dependent and at the mercy of this certain nationality we are. :scared-4:
the writing is already on the wall - it's a strike & MoM has called it illegal. it's now up to management and the authorities, whether they have guts, to fire and deport them en masse
bargain hunter
28-11-12, 08:29
i feel they may not do it and that would be a sign of weakness. :mad:
the writing is already on the wall - it's a strike & MoM has called it illegal. it's now up to management and the authorities, whether they have guts, to fire and deport them en masse
Living conditions of the drivers appear to be quite bad. Time to send in the investigative reporters to find out more!
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/smrt-bus-drivers-speak-up-on-china-co-workers%E2%80%99-pay-172843952.html
UPDATE on Wed 28/11: All drivers who went on strike on Monday have returned to work on Wednesday morning.
While bus captains from China do work the same hours as drivers of other nationalities, it's fair that they are paid less because they get transportation and housing, say some SMRT bus drivers.
Speaking to Yahoo! Singapore on an anonymous basis on Tuesday, several Singaporean and Malaysian bus drivers in general voiced this sentiment in the wake of Monday’s full-day Chinese bus drivers’ strike.
“(Chinese bus drivers) shouldn’t be paid the same amount (as Malaysians) because they have lodging here,” said one Singaporean driver who has been with SMRT for four years. “They also have transport to and fro, whereas Malaysians have to travel back home across the Causeway every day.”
“They (Chinese and Malaysian nationals) probably shouldn’t be earning the same amount since they (the Chinese) are provided with accommodation,” echoed another local bus captain, who has worked with both SBS Transit and SMRT over more than 20 years.
Noting further that the terms for salary arrangements would have been agreed upon before the drivers first came to Singapore, he said that if they were not violated or changed in any way upon their arrival, the drivers in question should by right have nothing to complain about.
Other drivers adopted a more moderate view of the situation, however, and said they could see where the striking bus captains were coming from.
"I do think they should earn equal pay," said a 60-year-old Singaporean driver, who has worked more than 10 years with SMRT. "After all, they work the same hours and have the same duties."
Another local bus captain said he felt that it would be fair for the transport operator to up the pay of the Chinese drivers by a certain percentage, but taking into account additional accommodation costs, he, too, said it should eventually still come to below the amount Malaysian drivers earn.
"They could maybe negotiate a small increment, maybe up to 20 to 30 per cent less than Malaysian drivers given the accommodation issue," he said. "I do think their pay system should be fairer but at the same time I think it's a tough situation."
One Malaysian bus driver who spoke to Yahoo! Singapore was visibly annoyed at Monday's strike, saying the move to do so was "irresponsible and uncalled for".
"First of all, they should have approached the management first to discuss things," he said. "Going on strike is illegal and we all understand that."
He shared that starting out as a bus driver here, his base pay was about $650 a month. Coupled with a twice-daily commute between Johor and work, he said Malaysian bus drivers don't have it as easy as their Chinese colleagues, for whom accommodation and transport is provided to and from their respective bus depots.
"We (Malaysians) have been here for more than 10 years, how can they compare with us?" he asked. "Even if a Malaysian and a Chinese driver have the same amount of experience, housing rental isn't cheap here -- it eventually adds up."
In fact, he said, if any comparison should be done, it should be between Chinese and new Singaporean drivers, who are offered significantly more in pay than drivers of any other nationality.
"In any case, Indian bus drivers (who hold PR) are paid the same as us -- they also have to settle their own housing arrangements," he said. "Why only pinpoint us? Why drag us into this?"
Asked for her views on the strike, however, one female driver from China said she fully supported it, but did not join it for fear of losing her job.
"They may say that we are given accommodation, but have you seen the accommodation they give us? It isn't fit for humans," she said in Mandarin. "Eight of us share a room, and there isn't any walking space between our beds. I've also been bitten by rats and insects on multiple occasions before."
Nonetheless, she said all that is still bearable compared to the disparity in pay they receive for their work.
"This really is unfair to us. We do the exact same work, work for the same number of hours and yet we don't receive the same compensation. Our living conditions back home are far, far better than they are here."
On Monday, more than 170 SMRT bus captains from China went on a full-day strike at their Woodlands dormitories to protest the disparity in pay they received compared to their Malaysian counterparts.
While some of them returned to work on Tuesday, almost 90 of them persisted in their strike, as trade union representatives attempted to mediate discussions between them and SMRT.
The transport operator said in a statement on Tuesday evening that it has also filed a police report over "possible breaches of the law", while conducting internal investigations to determine whether or not employment terms had been breached.
bargain hunter
28-11-12, 08:52
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC121128-0000056/Strike-reduced-bus-service-frequency
Strike reduced bus service frequency
Transport Minister says contingency plans are being effected to minimise disruption
by Sumita Sreedharan 04:45 AM Nov 28, 2012
SINGAPORE - The walkout by SMRT's bus drivers caused service frequency to drop by 10 per cent on Monday, when 171 drivers refused to work, and to 5 per cent yesterday, when 88 did not take the wheel.
Revealing this yesterday, Minister of State (Transport) Josephine Teo said at a press conference that "despite the actions of this group of drivers, all bus services continue to run. All commuters were able to take their usual services".
SMRT, which declined to answer many questions from this newspaper on several aspects of the strike - including the number of services affected yesterday, the disparity in the salaries of bus drivers of different nationalities and complaints from the striking drivers over living conditions - did not respond to requests for information about which routes were affected.
What is known is that it runs 98 routes, seven of which are NightRider services that run on Fridays, Saturdays and the eves of Public Holidays from 11.30pm to 4.35am.
Under its quality of service standards for basic bus services, the Public Transport Council stipulates that scheduled bus trips operated on each service should at least achieve 96 per cent monthly in terms of reliability.
In a statement last night, SMRT said it aimed to restore bus services "as soon as possible". While the company is conducting its own investigations on whether terms of employment have been breached, SMRT assured the striking drivers that the company "continues to value their services".
Mrs Teo assured commuters that contingency plans are being effected to minimise disruption, including activating drivers from SMRT rival SBS Transit. She said there are about 40 standby bus drivers who could be mobilised if the need arises.
Work is also ongoing to establish a pool of drivers who are familiar with various bus routes, who can be activated at short notice.
SBS Transit says it has up to 30 bus drivers on standby to respond to the SMRT strike.
"The focus is to ensure that bus services continue to be operated smoothly to avoid inconveniencing commuters who rely on public transport," said Ms Tammy Tan, spokeswoman for the main bus operator.
bargain hunter
28-11-12, 09:22
http://info.sgx.com/webcoranncatth.nsf/VwAttachments/Att_E3779B0EEEC227AA48257AC300806D4C/$file/sl.pdf?openelement
Date of Issue: 27 November 2012
SMRT statement on Service Leaders who were absent from work
On 26 November 2012, 171 Service Leaders from China did not report for duty. At a dialogue
with the Service Leaders yesterday, SMRT assured the Service Leaders it will look into their
concerns, while the Service Leaders agreed to return to work the next day.
However, despite the agreement, 68 and 20 of the SLs who were on the morning and afternoon
shift respectively did not show up for work today (27 Nov).
SMRT Management takes a serious view of the bus service delays that were brought about by
the irresponsible behavior of the Service Leaders (SLs) who did not report for work as scheduled.
SMRT's priority is to ensure that bus services are restored to normal as soon as possible.
In accordance with our obligation as a Public Transport Operator, SMRT has lodged a police
report for further investigation into possible breaches of the law. At the same time, the company
is conducting its own investigations on whether terms of employment have been breached.
SMRT will continue to engage all our SLs from China to explain the situation, and urges SLs not
to take matters into their own hands but to make use of the proper channels to discuss workplace
matters.
SMRT would like to assure SLs who were not involved in the actions over the last two days, that
the company continues to value their services.
Executive Vice President (Roads & Commercial) Ms Teo Chew Hoon said: "We have stressed to
the SLs that the lines of communication to management remain open and they should not take
such unlawful actions to air their grievances. We apologise to all commuters for the
inconvenience caused, and thank all the Service Leaders who put in their best efforts over the
past two days to cover the duties of those who were absent.
i feel they may not do it and that would be a sign of weakness. :mad:
then it further stokes anti-FTs sentiments. damn if they don't do it, cos the political outspill will be disastrous.
i m more concerned about if they win. it shows how dependent and at the mercy of this certain nationality we are. :scared-4:Don't worry, we certainly are not at their mercy although we are slightly dependent. Anyway, burning the bridge by sending them back will not serve well for us too. SMRT didn't manage the situation well in the first place to allow this problem to balloon out of proportion. Think what will happen is SMRT will allow these PRCs to return to work after some form of mediation and will surely issue a public statement in due course. However, these erring drivers will definitely face the music eventually. Relevant authority must balance the punishment intricately to ensure this golden bridge is not burnt but also will not set a precedence for future FW to carry out similar strike. Big headache for the authorities... :beats-me-man:
proud owner
28-11-12, 18:07
Salary is confidential.
How they managed to find out what others are getting ?
I feel smrt really sucks....
After the queen bee saga. They still haven't really manage to do things right.
Too complacent.
Don't worry, we certainly are not at their mercy although we are slightly dependent. Anyway, burning the bridge by sending them back will not serve well for us too. SMRT didn't manage the situation well in the first place to allow this problem to balloon out of proportion. Think what will happen is SMRT will allow these PRCs to return to work after some form of mediation and will surely issue a public statement in due course. However, these erring drivers will definitely face the music eventually. Relevant authority must balance the punishment intricately to ensure this golden bridge is not burnt but also will not set a precedence for future FW to carry out similar strike. Big headache for the authorities... :beats-me-man:
Salary is confidential.
How they managed to find out what others are getting ?
I feel smrt really sucks....
After the queen bee saga. They still haven't really manage to do things right.
Too complacent.Maybe one Malaysian driver clown revealed to one PRC driver over a casual conversation. He must be :banghead: now having stirred up so much trouble!
Anyway that queen bee is v smart to take all the bonus over the years and make a bee line for the exit door. Lol!
Salary is confidential.
How they managed to find out what others are getting ?
I feel smrt really sucks....
After the queen bee saga. They still haven't really manage to do things right.
Too complacent.
Not difficult la. evem amongst my staff of less than ten pple they can share details, whats with few hundreds of them - just need two good buddies to talk over kopi.
Data released by SMRT showed that after October this year, basic salary of bus drivers from China stood at $1,075 against $1,400 of those from Malaysia.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/jameshong_2006/630smrt_paypackage.jpg
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/20-smrt-bus-drivers--assisting--police-104134664.html
Data released by SMRT showed that after October this year, basic salary of bus drivers from China stood at $1,075 against $1,400 of those from Malaysia.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/jameshong_2006/630smrt_paypackage.jpg
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/20-smrt-bus-drivers--assisting--police-104134664.html
Not much difference after taking into consideration the accommodation costs, given that the Chinese drivers are 2 year contract (i.e. temp workers). It might be better to just give the housing subsidy to the Chinese drivers and let them rent outside.
Not much difference after taking into consideration the accommodation costs, given that the Chinese drivers are 2 year contract (i.e. temp workers). It might be better to just give the housing subsidy to the Chinese drivers and let them rent outside.
exactly what i said earlier. boost hdb tenancy rates. but doubt i want to rent THIS group
Not much difference after taking into consideration the accommodation costs, given that the Chinese drivers are 2 year contract (i.e. temp workers). It might be better to just give the housing subsidy to the Chinese drivers and let them rent outside.
please don't give smrt that idea!!! i rather they all stay together at one location, let the shuttle bus send them to work. we don't need more china people all over the island.
exactly what i said earlier. boost hdb tenancy rates. but doubt i want to rent THIS group
Some desperate landlords will. Not sure y there is a salary adjustment in the middle of a contract.
exactly what i said earlier. boost hdb tenancy rates. but doubt i want to rent THIS group
200 china men.. they can't each afford to rent a bedroom in a hdb base on what they are earning. how will it boost tenancy rates..
please don't give smrt that idea!!! i rather they all stay together at one location, let the shuttle bus send them to work. we don't need more china people all over the island.
Nothing wrong with having them around. They are here to earn an honest living and work on jobs that few Singaporeans want to take on.
Nothing wrong with having them around. They are here to earn an honest living and work on jobs that few Singaporeans want to take on.
sorry bro no offence, i just dislike them on a personal level.
honest living doesn't entail going on strike in a public transport service sector.
singaporeans will take on. just that smrt is profit-driven.
200 china men.. they can't each afford to rent a bedroom in a hdb base on what they are earning. how will it boost tenancy rates..
tiongs are the most creative. you dun need to worry about them
sorry bro no offence, i just dislike them on a personal level.
honest living doesn't entail going on strike in a public transport service sector.
singaporeans will take on. just that smrt is profit-driven.
Culture difference. Strikes are normal overseas for workers who are frustrated with their work and pay. More worrying are foreigners who take away jobs at middle to top management levels.
tiongs are the most creative. you dun need to worry about them
i don't care about them. i am rationalising that there will not be a boost in tenancy rates
Culture difference. Strikes are normal overseas for workers who are frustrated with their work and pay. More worrying are foreigners who take away jobs at middle to top management levels.
strikes are often notified in advance. at least a day. strikes are usually made by locals, not foreigners who willingly accept the salary amount and come here on a temporary basis, in this case 2 year contracts.
i agree with you it is a greater cause for concern on the issue that foreigners will occupy middle to top management positions.
sorry bro no offence, i just dislike them on a personal level.
honest living doesn't entail going on strike in a public transport service sector.
singaporeans will take on. just that smrt is profit-driven.U r right. When I was taking public transport in the past, I've never met a Non-Singaporean bus driver. Ever since SMRT is privatized and profit driven, FW starts appearing to bring down cost! :scared-4: A public transport system cannot be privatized lah!
Not sure what is the point of them striking ?
To hold Singapore ransom ?
If you maid refuse to cook dinner because your neighbour's maid got an increment she didnt (and she thinks she deserves it, but you dont think so), what will you do ?
Answer is clear...
If I go to my Boss (Manager of Office Admin) and say I wont send documents anymore until I get the same increment as the ang mos in my office, guess what they will tell me ?
Answer is clear ...
DKSG
Ya, I came across a case, a man who worked for a Japanese Boss as a chauffeur demand for a pay rise, in the end he was asked to pack and go. Actually this Japanese Boss treated him very well, his job was to fetch the boss to the destination and left the boss there, then he could go anywhere he liked, when times up, he would go and fetched the boss back. During CNY, the boss would give him big ang pow for him to buy clothing and shoes for his family. So sometimes, there is only chance, if a person doesn't know how to treasure it, he/she might not be able to find such a good boss anymore.
Imagine suddenly no bus services. Lots of people will be very upset. SMRT CEO will be very busy. PRCs drivers must have been felt cheated after coming over. Malaysian drivers are getting at least 2k plus. No wonder buses on the roads are quite reckless and cars have to give way to them. Pity our elderly who cannot speak mandarin.
Yesterday took a bus home, was like sitting on a roller coaster. Have to hold tight tight.:scared-3:
I ever came across, when the bus turned at a corner, a lady passenger fell from her seat. I guessed she was sleeping.
sorry bro no offence, i just dislike them on a personal level.
honest living doesn't entail going on strike in a public transport service sector.
singaporeans will take on. just that smrt is profit-driven.
Funny question so u are willing to pay more for ur transport so that its driven but Singaporean ?that is if u can find enough willing sgporean drivers.
And what's wrong that SMRT is profit driven? It's still goven by LTA operation rules. I guess u are too young to have taken the old rattling bus back in the 80s.
Funny question so u are willing to pay more for ur transport so that its driven but Singaporean ?that is if u can find enough willing sgporean drivers.
And what's wrong that SMRT is profit driven? It's still goven by LTA operation rules. I guess u are too young to have taken the old rattling bus back in the 80s.
the issues are manifold.
1. profits and fares have been increasing over the years, but service level has plummeted. if we are paying for better service, i don't think there will be much grouses. it's a different thing when we are paying to line some fat cat's pocket, who can only give us more service breakdowns
2. there's nothing wrong for a private corporation to maximize profits. however, shouldn't we take a step back and ask why should public service be privatised in the first place? imagine public healthcare being privatised. imagine public security being privatised.
3. what's the point of scholars, who live in ivory towers and don't take public transport, coming up with LTA regulations? multiple U-turns on having taxis on the roads, negligence on MRT track maintennance, erect more ERP gantries, installation of gates in MRT stations after so many suicides and accidents, etc.
4. if the FTs learn to 'do what the romans do in rome', i don't think the anti-FT sentiments would be that bad. aren't we all peeved by FTs who come to our land, don't bother to integrate into our culture, insult us, take advantage of taxpayers' monies before leaving for greener pastures, run pedestrains over on roads, etc?
5. if they were a bunch of Singaporeans, i doubt the police will bat an eyelid about roundingand incarcerating them up.
5. if they were a bunch of Singaporeans, i doubt the police will bat an eyelid about roundingand incarcerating them up.
so... are we 2nd class citizens in our own land?
so... are we 2nd class citizens in our own land?
It's not that we are second class in our own land. It's a bit more complicating when you are dealing with foreigners. Some people and their government are becoming more nationalistic.
the issues are manifold.
1. profits and fares have been increasing over the years, but service level has plummeted. if we are paying for better service, i don't think there will be much grouses. it's a different thing when we are paying to line some fat cat's pocket, who can only give us more service breakdowns
2. there's nothing wrong for a private corporation to maximize profits. however, shouldn't we take a step back and ask why should public service be privatised in the first place? imagine public healthcare being privatised. imagine public security being privatised.
3. what's the point of scholars, who live in ivory towers and don't take public transport, coming up with LTA regulations? multiple U-turns on having taxis on the roads, negligence on MRT track maintennance, erect more ERP gantries, installation of gates in MRT stations after so many suicides and accidents, etc.
4. if the FTs learn to 'do what the romans do in rome', i don't think the anti-FT sentiments would be that bad. aren't we all peeved by FTs who come to our land, don't bother to integrate into our culture, insult us, take advantage of taxpayers' monies before leaving for greener pastures, run pedestrains over on roads, etc?
5. if they were a bunch of Singaporeans, i doubt the police will bat an eyelid about roundingand incarcerating them up.
1.
I come from the experience of the 70-80s era. I totally appreciate what we have as public service today. Traveling ard the region we still have good standard of infra at a reasonable cost. Comparing to HK, Korea, JP , Taiwan , China . and more superior than the backwards Malaysia , Vietnam, Indo etc.
I also remember the dirty peeling bustop we have , rattling bus without aircon and peeling pvc seats on the bus. U want to go back to those days? andy pay $50c for ur bus ride?
2.
Thats why there is a LTA governance that have to be in place. So with failure u see things being ractified. Problem is no public appreciate the many other issues that was averted without public notice. People only remember problem and want to see blood.? Wat is the better solution u have to offer?
3. So Wat do u think is a better solution then? then complain? and want to see blood? Wats use is that?
4. FT or local or malaysian etc its a pple mgmt issue. all have to manage. regardless. just the style to manage have to adapt coz now we have more diverse culture folks in the work force. Ur grandfather time also come from China, india, malaysia too.. all have to adapt. part and parcel .
5.
Wat make u think nothing is now being down behind the scene? u expect the army come in and gun down everyone and make a big show out of it? seems like people these days are all for a good show. and moral judgement. so quick to judge. If its singaporean will ur reaction have been different?
so... are we 2nd class citizens in our own land?
1st class or 2nd class is wat u think. why u always think u 2nd Class then? becoz material stuff?
It's not that we are second class in our own land. It's a bit more complicating when you are dealing with foreigners. Some people and their government are becoming more nationalistic.
Actually on the contrary. I don't feel people are nationalistic. People are becoming xenophobic. And selfish. Self interest comes first. What people have do I have better then them. How I take and gain more than another. Plus there is more venue to vent and internet gives the anonymity. So people tend to get irresponsible with that they say online.
Nationalistic to me means putting national progressing and development ahead of one self interest. And with national progression the citizen benefit as a whole.
Take for example Facebook thread on news. every piece of singapore news people complain. I don't see anything positive at all. thus give up even reading it eventually coz there is nothing constructive to look at theses days.
Actually on the contrary. I don't feel people are nationalistic. People are becoming xenophobic. And selfish. Self interest comes first. What people have do I have better then them. How I take and gain more than another. Plus there is more venue to vent and internet gives the anonymity. So people tend to get irresponsible with that they say online.
Nationalistic to me means putting national progressing and development ahead of one self interest. And with national progression the citizen benefit as a whole.
Take for example Facebook thread on news. every piece of singapore news people complain. I don't see anything positive at all. thus give up even reading it eventually coz there is nothing constructive to look at theses days.
:cheers4: u are right. new generation only know how to use complain to get what they want
1.
I come from the experience of the 70-80s era. I totally appreciate what we have as public service today. Traveling ard the region we still have good standard of infra at a reasonable cost. Comparing to HK, Korea, JP , Taiwan , China . and more superior than the backwards Malaysia , Vietnam, Indo etc.
I also remember the dirty peeling bustop we have , rattling bus without aircon and peeling pvc seats on the bus. U want to go back to those days? andy pay $50c for ur bus ride?
2.
Thats why there is a LTA governance that have to be in place. So with failure u see things being ractified. Problem is no public appreciate the many other issues that was averted without public notice. People only remember problem and want to see blood.? Wat is the better solution u have to offer?
3. So Wat do u think is a better solution then? then complain? and want to see blood? Wats use is that?
4. FT or local or malaysian etc its a pple mgmt issue. all have to manage. regardless. just the style to manage have to adapt coz now we have more diverse culture folks in the work force. Ur grandfather time also come from China, india, malaysia too.. all have to adapt. part and parcel .
5.
Wat make u think nothing is now being down behind the scene? u expect the army come in and gun down everyone and make a big show out of it? seems like people these days are all for a good show. and moral judgement. so quick to judge. If its singaporean will ur reaction have been different?
hey dude, don't think you're the only one who sat in dingy mercedes buses.
1. what has being poor infrastructure got to do with this issue? public infrastructure is paid for by taxpayers. like all businesses, smrt upgrades their buses using their monies. if they were to use those buses in the 80s, you think customers will accept it and not opt for alternative forms of transport? obviously, you have not thought of the political aspect
2. are you telling me that we are suppose to adapt our culture to fit their behaviour? let's be clear on this, i don't go to India and start berating them for not having beef in their macdonald's menu.
3. solution? easy, sack and deport them. and you've gone cuckoo - who is crying for blood?
4. if it's singaporean, you don't need me. LKY has already made an official stand in the SIA saga. please spruce up your knowledge and logic, so that we can debate intelligently about this.
Actually on the contrary. I don't feel people are nationalistic. People are becoming xenophobic. And selfish. Self interest comes first. What people have do I have better then them. How I take and gain more than another. Plus there is more venue to vent and internet gives the anonymity. So people tend to get irresponsible with that they say online.
Nationalistic to me means putting national progressing and development ahead of one self interest. And with national progression the citizen benefit as a whole.
Take for example Facebook thread on news. every piece of singapore news people complain. I don't see anything positive at all. thus give up even reading it eventually coz there is nothing constructive to look at theses days.
i don't think all singaporeans are xenophobic. there will be pockets of black sheeps, like in all societies.
so pray, please enlighten us. how is this strike contributing to national development??!!! if we condone this act, how does it equate to putting our individual interests aside for the greater good of the nation?!?
it is precisely when there's tunnel vision and crap inputs to a discussion, the output is crap - garbage in, garbage out
hey dude, don't think you're the only one who sat in dingy mercedes buses.
1. what has being poor infrastructure got to do with this issue? public infrastructure is paid for by taxpayers. like all businesses, smrt upgrades their buses using their monies. if they were to use those buses in the 80s, you think customers will accept it and not opt for alternative forms of transport? obviously, you have not thought of the political aspect
2. are you telling me that we are suppose to adapt our culture to fit their behaviour? let's be clear on this, i don't go to India and start berating them for not having beef in their macdonald's menu.
3. solution? easy, sack and deport them. and you've gone cuckoo - who is crying for blood?
4. if it's singaporean, you don't need me. LKY has already made an official stand in the SIA saga. please spruce up your knowledge and logic, so that we can debate intelligently about this.
1. Well I think u need to define poor? I dont feel its poor. To me so what if SMRT make profit it think it is win win if SMRT profit and I get a better transport than what it would have been if nationalized. So are u saying u are willing to pay more TAX to support a nationalized transport system? Coz someone got to pay for it.
2. Well u adapt. it a give n take. nothing is all abt I win u loose mentality. I never say we must adapt to them. I say we have to adapt how to manage people. In mgmt it not abt beating all ur employees to submission. That never work. u need people to work but u cannot also have a riot.
3. Sure I am sure it would happen. but in phases. where u find replacement in so short notice? wat make u think its not going to happen? Do SMRT need to tell everyone thier intention to create even more unhappiness? Give them a break. work are being done.
4. Yes I remember that. So wat make u think nothing is being done now? in all is always catch the leader make a example out of the leader all will fall in line. all this take time. I dont like the fact people playing up the emotions becoz FT is involved. To me sgp , FT all same its mgmt issue. let the mgmt work it out.
i don't think all singaporeans are xenophobic. there will be pockets of black sheeps, like in all societies.
so pray, please enlighten us. how is this strike contributing to national development??!!! if we condone this act, how does it equate to putting our individual interests aside for the greater good of the nation?!?
it is precisely when there's tunnel vision and crap inputs to a discussion, the output is crap - garbage in, garbage out
Since when I say this stike is a national development? taking abt tunnel vision!. I dont condone it. But I dont condone people playing up emotions with the FT cards. This is a mgmt issue that needs to be work out and prevented.
Some people and their government are becoming more nationalistic.
I am not referring to Sporeans in this statement.
1. Well I think u need to define poor? I dont feel its poor. To me so what if SMRT make profit it think it is win win if SMRT profit and I get a better transport than what it would have been if nationalized. So are u saying u are willing to pay more TAX to support a nationalized transport system? Coz someone got to pay for it.
2. Well u adapt. it a give n take. nothing is all abt I win u loose mentality. I never say we must adapt to them. I say we have to adapt how to manage people. In mgmt it not abt beating all ur employees to submission. That never work. u need people to work but u cannot also have a riot.
3. Sure I am sure it would happen. but in phases. where u find replacement in so short notice? wat make u think its not going to happen? Do SMRT need to tell everyone thier intention to create even more unhappiness? Give them a break. work are being done.
4. Yes I remember that. So wat make u think nothing is being done now? in all is always catch the leader make a example out of the leader all will fall in line. all this take time. I dont like the fact people playing up the emotions becoz FT is involved. To me sgp , FT all same its mgmt issue. let the mgmt work it out.
1. get better transport?! compared to what? zimbawe? taiwan? africa? switzerland? SMRT's profits in hundreds of millions. i'm sure if we were to pump it back into the system, fares may be lower. since you talked about national development, the more public transport should never be privatised. it's like having both a socialist and capitalist mentality merged into one - madness!
2. give and take? i believe we have sufficient examples from the days of curry-gate to talk any more about this.
3. in phases?! :doh: the act is criminal. if they aren't sacked and deported, the alternative is jail term and/or fine. no action taken will be seen as weakness, or even bowing to foreign pressure and costing more political capital. take your pick
4. this is more than merely an organizational issue. if the whole saga wasn't played out in public media, smrt could have gotten away with it. however, did this happen overnight? i'm sure there were tell-tale signs along the way. if my assumption was wrong, then these PRCs just behaved thuggishly and took hostage a Singapore corporation. so how? national development? give and take? don't merely talk about fairy-airy stuff, and trash your own arguments
so... are we 2nd class citizens in our own land?
i don't think it's quite right to say that, but there are definitely less political implications if singaporeans were striking.
1. get better transport?! compared to what? zimbawe? taiwan? africa? switzerland? SMRT's profits in hundreds of millions. i'm sure if we were to pump it back into the system, fares may be lower. since you talked about national development, the more public transport should never be privatised. it's like having both a socialist and capitalist mentality merged into one - madness!
2. give and take? i believe we have sufficient examples from the days of curry-gate to talk any more about this.
3. in phases?! :doh: the act is criminal. if they aren't sacked and deported, the alternative is jail term and/or fine. no action taken will be seen as weakness, or even bowing to foreign pressure and costing more political capital. take your pick
4. this is more than merely an organizational issue. if the whole saga wasn't played out in public media, smrt could have gotten away with it. however, did this happen overnight? i'm sure there were tell-tale signs along the way. if my assumption was wrong, then these PRCs just behaved thuggishly and took hostage a Singapore corporation. so how? national development? give and take? don't merely talk about fairy-airy stuff, and trash your own arguments
1. Hah hah.. how much cheaper u want? free rides? Flash ur made in singapore ass and get a free ride? Common be realistic.
2. Xenophobic.! & Myopic! I guess u will think other wise dealing with ur maid when u need 1 but firing 1 over small issues and u can't get a new maid so blame who government never cultivate a nation os sgporean maid for u?. I am not condoning strike. I am saying managing people have to take into account local and foregin culture and that take time.
3. Really? so u want to go drive the bus? or u want to complain no bus?
4. Since when we all so free everything must be trial buy public moral judgement? Want to become like india?
wake up lah. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
i don't think it's quite right to say that, but there are definitely less political implications if singaporeans were striking.
So u are saying Singaporean have more right to strike? than non Singaporean?
proud owner
29-11-12, 13:29
So u are saying Singaporean have more right to strike? than non Singaporean?
i think he meant if it was sporeans...the treatment would have been more swift and harsh..
probably already arrested and locked up...maybe even beaten up along the way
i think he meant if it was sporeans...the treatment would have been more swift and harsh..
probably already arrested and locked up...maybe even beaten up along the way
hah hah....... some urban legend.....
The fact is we Singapore have a new management.. so everyone testing the limits. Old mgmt might handle this differently.
Regardless I just hope we don't loose our competitiviness and egde in the transition.
bargain hunter
29-11-12, 16:24
heard that in the end only 4 have been arrested and charged in court at 5pm today.
bargain hunter
29-11-12, 16:25
no lah, if its singaporeans, my guess is arrested and charged under ISA. internal security threat.
i think he meant if it was sporeans...the treatment would have been more swift and harsh..
probably already arrested and locked up...maybe even beaten up along the way
no lah, if its singaporeans, my guess is arrested and charged under ISA. internal security threat.
This is irresponsible rumour mongering. Unless it communist issue. Anyway as expected the leads will be made a example . Kill 1 warn all.
bargain hunter
29-11-12, 17:42
sorry if my post was taken out of context. proud owner is a bro so i was just teasing him.
This is irresponsible rumour mongering. Unless it communist issue. Anyway as expected the leads will be made a example . Kill 1 warn all.
SMRT has issued the following statement after management met with more than 130 bus drivers from China at two townhall sessions today: “As a large number of our Service Leaders from China have expressed their desire to move out from the dormitories, we will also be arranging alternative accommodation for them at various HDB flats/apartments located island-wide when the leases of their dormitories expire from early 2013.”
SMRT has issued the following statement after management met with more than 130 bus drivers from China at two townhall sessions today: “As a large number of our Service Leaders from China have expressed their desire to move out from the dormitories, we will also be arranging alternative accommodation for them at various HDB flats/apartments located island-wide when the leases of their dormitories expire from early 2013.”
holy sh*t ! :doh:
SMRT has issued the following statement after management met with more than 130 bus drivers from China at two townhall sessions today: “As a large number of our Service Leaders from China have expressed their desire to move out from the dormitories, we will also be arranging alternative accommodation for them at various HDB flats/apartments located island-wide when the leases of their dormitories expire from early 2013.”
Other Chinese workers will also demand same benefits of staying in HDBs. Good for HDB rental.
sorry if my post was taken out of context. proud owner is a bro so i was just teasing him.
no worries no harm done.
SMRT has issued the following statement after management met with more than 130 bus drivers from China at two townhall sessions today: “As a large number of our Service Leaders from China have expressed their desire to move out from the dormitories, we will also be arranging alternative accommodation for them at various HDB flats/apartments located island-wide when the leases of their dormitories expire from early 2013.”
rental market got support liao?
SMRT has issued the following statement after management met with more than 130 bus drivers from China at two townhall sessions today: “As a large number of our Service Leaders from China have expressed their desire to move out from the dormitories, we will also be arranging alternative accommodation for them at various HDB flats/apartments located island-wide when the leases of their dormitories expire from early 2013.”
Haha.. Spread them out all over the island, Jurong, Tampines, Yishun. Divide and rule. Occupy them with work. Then, no time to gather, stoke emotions and strike next time.
Hdb owners renting out their units will be happy. The dorm operator will be sad to lose 100+ occupants overnight.
Hdb owners renting out their units will be happy. The dorm operator will be sad to lose 100+ occupants overnight.
Seriously it will cost each PRC driver at least $300-350 to rent right?
It does not sound cruel, just a reality. This episode has certainly opened up Singapore's FW management policies for all to scrutinize.
One thing for sure, their treatment is so different from foreign domestic helpers. I know that domestic helpers get low pay (up to S$500/mth) also coz free accomodation plus free food and all. However, these helpers can actually break contract freely and they are actually protected by our policies. We as employers cannot deduct their pay for not finishing their contract and we still have to buy air tickets to send them home. My previous helper, upon knowing there was a pay increment in Singapore for all domestic helpers a year back, chose to break contract with us and went for a new employer to get higher pay... :(
That's right, dont' like the job or feel unfair treatment, just resign and go elsewhere and find a better pay job. This is Singapore and not China, it is not their country, why want to create such a situation in other people's country. We want peace. I don't think that those people who go on strike think that they have nothing to loose out, some simply act on impulse. Salary is a very sensitive issue, my friend's company has set a rule, if anybody tell their colleagues about their salaries, that person will be fired.
There're lots of unfair things in this world. Like my boss says, female employees pay are normal lower than the male employees (couldn't remember the reason he gave), what can we say, we need a bowl of rice, if don't like it, just get another job lor.
rental market got support liao?Ok.. let's just ask around here. Would you rent your HDB flat to a group of say 6 PRC bus drivers? Will they spend time looking after your house? Remember, the dormitories probably require less efforts to maintain than a HDB flat. :rolleyes:
phantom_opera
30-11-12, 09:13
Cost will go up, higher pay n bonus due to higher basics
Ok.. let's just ask around here. Would you rent your HDB flat to a group of say 6 PRC bus drivers? Will they spend time looking after your house? Remember, the dormitories probably require less efforts to maintain than a HDB flat. :rolleyes:
I would only rent to FT or professional regardless of racial but not workers..:tsk-tsk: !
Seriously it will cost each PRC driver at least $300-350 to rent right?
More like $400-$500 assuming 2 to a room.
Cost will go up, higher pay n bonus due to higher basics
exactly. higher basic will push up everything else. then when everything else is higher, the basics ask for even higher. endless spiral. good news is, ppty price continue upwards due to inflation. bad news is, the higher you climb, the harder you fall.
basics has to be kept low by govt - healthcare, housing, basic transport, basic food, etc. they have a role to play. but by how much, and using what mechanisms, they need to put their million dollar brains to good use.
having said that, sometimes we are pushing up our own costs of living. latest gadget, latest car, etc. core inflation (excludes coe/house) is only 2.2%. it is not that unreasonable, and it is already being artificially kept low by our strong exch rate. how long this is sustainable, i am not sure. this also protects us from further hot money flowing into to buy our assets (to a certain extent).
every economic cycle has its peculiarities. no one time is the same as the last time. it does takes lots of good genes to pick out the right news and make the right decision at the right time.
phantom_opera
30-11-12, 15:01
I wonder whether SBS Chinese drivers has same kind of pay package
supposed to be comparable, though living conditions are apparently better since they don't live in bed-bug infested dorms.
at least now there's a closure - 4 arrested, and should be hung to dry. then it will be hard work for MoM to douse the anti-FTs flames
supposed to be comparable, though living conditions are apparently better since they don't live in bed-bug infested dorms.
at least now there's a closure - 4 arrested, and should be hung to dry. then it will be hard work for MoM to douse the anti-FTs flames
This means that next time around just get one person to be the fall guy who can seemingly organise and be responsible for insitgating 10,000 to strike. So one person will face arrest and rest go scott free? Like this, many will start sacrificing themselves to test the limits. I thought the rules apply to all those who participate in the strike?
So there will be closure only if the remaining strikers are at the very minimum deported. I believe this will happen after the govt has allowed things to cool down esp in China and SMRT had enough time to recruit new drivers to replace those to be deported.
This means that next time around just get one person to be the fall guy who can seemingly organise and be responsible for insitgating 10,000 to strike. So one person will face arrest and rest go scott free? Like this, many will start sacrificing themselves to test the limits. I thought the rules apply to all those who participate in the strike?
So there will be closure only if the remaining strikers are at the very minimum deported. I believe this will happen after the govt has allowed things to cool down esp in China and SMRT had enough time to recruit new drivers to replace those to be deported.
if the rest have not fallen foul of the law or policies, the company can't just sack them, especially now when the embassy has call for protection of its workers' rights.
to avoid any more flames, what i would do is to allow their contract to run its course and not renew them. easy way out, no need to kenna hatam by MFA or MOM, and can continue recruiting from china
This means that next time around just get one person to be the fall guy who can seemingly organise and be responsible for insitgating 10,000 to strike. So one person will face arrest and rest go scott free? Like this, many will start sacrificing themselves to test the limits. I thought the rules apply to all those who participate in the strike?
So there will be closure only if the remaining strikers are at the very minimum deported. I believe this will happen after the govt has allowed things to cool down esp in China and SMRT had enough time to recruit new drivers to replace those to be deported.Then S'pore returns to become the 3rd world of 1950s and LKY method must be reintroduced... the red car hooligans will appear again... start all over again! :47:
Ok.. let's just ask around here. Would you rent your HDB flat to a group of say 6 PRC bus drivers? Will they spend time looking after your house? Remember, the dormitories probably require less efforts to maintain than a HDB flat. :rolleyes:
If possible, I'll not rent to the PRC. My friends had a bad experience. One of them said when the PRC left, her rental flat toilet was horrible, like never washed before, alot of "thick black things" inside the toilet bowl. Oops.... are you all having your meai now?:D
Another said rent it to a few PRC workers, when they left, they also left lots of packet of empty or half finished food "ta-pao" boxes all over the floor.:doh:
bargain hunter
01-12-12, 10:21
In a Police operation at SMRT Woodlands and Serangoon foreign workers dormitories, police have rounded up more than 20 SMRT bus drivers, from Woodlands & Serangoon dorms. The SMRT bus drivers rounded up by police at the dorms this morning, were taken to a detention centre in Admiralty.
https://twitter.com/STcom/status/274692816523886592/photo/1
If possible, I'll not rent to the PRC. My friends had a bad experience. One of them said when the PRC left, her rental flat toilet was horrible, like never washed before, alot of "thick black things" inside the toilet bowl. Oops.... are you all having your meai now?:D
Another said rent it to a few PRC workers, when they left, they also left lots of packet of empty or half finished food "ta-pao" boxes all over the floor.:doh:Disgusting!
phantom_opera
01-12-12, 11:24
I can tell u these PRC bus drivers have nothing to lose because overall pay package in Singapore is only slightly better than driving taxi in China ... as China continues its 7-8% growth relative to Singapore's 2-3% ... in another 10y time, if you don't offer high pay, they will not come anymore
What do u think is fair pay for a bus driver given a 6 day work week? I would say 2.2k min per month
I guess $10/hr to $14/hr is decent. Assuming 7 hrs work day (exclude lunch), drivers should be getting $1680 to $2352. How's that?
phantom_opera
01-12-12, 14:22
the starting pay for them is 1075 (after 75 increment in July), 1375 for Malaysians, 1675 for citizens
with 6 day work week ... who will aspire to become a bus driver?? taxi driver anytime also 3-4k lah ... if MY + PRC come together and strike .... our bus service confirmed gone case
I can only tell u that avoid shares of SBS, SMRT ... cost must go up ... it is silly to expect profit growth
;)
If possible, I'll not rent to the PRC. My friends had a bad experience. One of them said when the PRC left, her rental flat toilet was horrible, like never washed before, alot of "thick black things" inside the toilet bowl. Oops.... are you all having your meai now?:D
Another said rent it to a few PRC workers, when they left, they also left lots of packet of empty or half finished food "ta-pao" boxes all over the floor.:doh:
simple ... just forfeit the deposit:D
Episode closed. 5 charged, 29 deported.
No nonsense. No face given to the chinese ambassador.
Episode closed. 5 charged, 29 deported.
1.
I come from the experience of the 70-80s era. I totally appreciate what we have as public service today. Traveling ard the region we still have good standard of infra at a reasonable cost. Comparing to HK, Korea, JP , Taiwan , China . and more superior than the backwards Malaysia , Vietnam, Indo etc.
I also remember the dirty peeling bustop we have , rattling bus without aircon and peeling pvc seats on the bus. U want to go back to those days? andy pay $50c for ur bus ride?
I miss the mini-bus in HK - flexible, affordable, and providing jobs to locals. (You'd better know local language to drive a mini-bus.)
Thanks,
Richard
phantom_opera
01-12-12, 21:04
Episode closed. 5 charged, 29 deported.
I think it could be a mistake ... if this is reported widely in Chinese's nationalistic media .. it will be even harder for SBS / SMRT to get workers there next time
and $1000 basic pay is no big deal ... those 29 deported probably happy for earlier termination of contracts :p
No nonsense. No face given to the chinese ambassador.
If don't give face then maybe it could have been 34 charged?
SMRT bus drivers’ strike: A sign of things to come?
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/smrt-bus-drivers%E2%80%99-strike--a-sign-of-things-to-come--035746969.html
Prepare for more fare hikes....:doh:
I think it could be a mistake ... if this is reported widely in Chinese's nationalistic media .. it will be even harder for SBS / SMRT to get workers there next time
and $1000 basic pay is no big deal ... those 29 deported probably happy for earlier termination of contracts :p
this group go back, Lots more waiting to come.
Agent source them in super ulu kampong.
thats why they need to pay the con agent a lot.
Prolly first year work for free.:cool:
SMRT bus drivers’ strike: A sign of things to come?
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/smrt-bus-drivers%E2%80%99-strike--a-sign-of-things-to-come--035746969.html
Prepare for more fare hikes....:doh:So which is better, buy car with $90k COE + OMV ++ or take public transport with escalating fares and constant breakdowns or bus driver losing his way? Hmmm... 1st class transportation :confused: ?
Use bicycle. :D
use "Bus 11", good for your health too.:D
buttercarp
03-12-12, 12:36
So which is better, buy car with $90k COE + OMV ++ or take public transport with escalating fares and constant breakdowns or bus driver losing his way? Hmmm... 1st class transportation :confused: ?
Last time when our drivers were local n Malaysians, where got bus go wrong way!
I would rather drive- either buy car or rent.
First driver convicted with 6 weeks of jail term. Serious.
If don't give face then maybe it could have been 34 charged?
exactly. higher basic will push up everything else. then when everything else is higher, the basics ask for even higher. endless spiral. good news is, ppty price continue upwards due to inflation. bad news is, the higher you climb, the harder you fall.
basics has to be kept low by govt - healthcare, housing, basic transport, basic food, etc. they have a role to play. but by how much, and using what mechanisms, they need to put their million dollar brains to good use.
having said that, sometimes we are pushing up our own costs of living. latest gadget, latest car, etc. core inflation (excludes coe/house) is only 2.2%. it is not that unreasonable, and it is already being artificially kept low by our strong exch rate. how long this is sustainable, i am not sure. this also protects us from further hot money flowing into to buy our assets (to a certain extent).
every economic cycle has its peculiarities. no one time is the same as the last time. it does takes lots of good genes to pick out the right news and make the right decision at the right time.
Well thats why we need the lower cost labor to keep cost down.
Last time when our drivers were local n Malaysians, where got bus go wrong way!
I would rather drive- either buy car or rent.
not really I remember Malaysia driver with double Decker raming into a overhead guard rail. etc.
so I think its not fair to say malaysian is any better.
Maybe trishaw will be popular again...:D
I thought govt said pay should be based on nature of job and not seniority or what race you are? (Should add nationality in as well...).
Shouldn't they pay all bus drivers the same regardless of nationality, race, age, etc (inclusive of bonuses, CPF contributions etc) for the same timing clocked at work? :p
Why are the foreigners being made to clock longer hours at lower pay when full package are included? :(
They said PRC bus driver get same basic pay as Malaysia if include free lodging and transport etc, but they didn't add in medical benefits, CPF contributions, additional variable bonuses, 13th month, etc? :confused:
I can tell u these PRC bus drivers have nothing to lose because overall pay package in Singapore is only slightly better than driving taxi in China ... as China continues its 7-8% growth relative to Singapore's 2-3% ... in another 10y time, if you don't offer high pay, they will not come anymore
What do u think is fair pay for a bus driver given a 6 day work week? I would say 2.2k min per month
First driver convicted with 6 weeks of jail term. Serious.Yup ... he was sobbing and apologized to our govt and SMRT and his family members... think he was sorry and nothing so far from China govt yet...
Last time when our drivers were local n Malaysians, where got bus go wrong way!
I would rather drive- either buy car or rent.Take cab might be cheaper than buying a car or renting one... ;) but need to wait lor... :rolleyes:
use "Bus 11", good for your health too.:DBus '11' got limit lah... try walking from Seng Kang to say Chinatown for work everyday... Lol!!! :cheers1: Drink more water is healthy too! :cheers3: (Looks like coke)
Last time when our drivers were local n Malaysians, where got bus go wrong way!
I would rather drive- either buy car or rent.
I had experienced before. The driver supposed to exit from the highway but instead he continued, so passengers started shouting, then he realised that he had missed the exit so he made a big u-turn and dropped us somewhere nearby, we still had to use our "bus 11" to walk to our place. But not sure whether was it a local or PRC driver.
Bus '11' got limit lah... try walking from Seng Kang to say Chinatown for work everyday... Lol!!! :cheers1: Drink more water is healthy too! :cheers3: (Looks like coke)
During courtship time, walking will have no problem, hehe:D, you will find that time passes very fast, time not enough, haha.
phantom_opera
03-12-12, 22:11
中国籍巴士司机的薪水，将从1075元调高至1100元，SMRT并且会考虑让他们将年假折换成现金。
very good, all PRC bus drivers must cry to express their gratitude :scared-3:
Interesting to also read some of the views from the other side...
http://news.sina.com.cn/w/2012-12-03/143225718792.shtml
I thought govt said pay should be based on nature of job and not seniority or what race you are? (Should add nationality in as well...).
Shouldn't they pay all bus drivers the same regardless of nationality, race, age, etc (inclusive of bonuses, CPF contributions etc) for the same timing clocked at work? :p
Why are the foreigners being made to clock longer hours at lower pay when full package are included? :(
They said PRC bus driver get same basic pay as Malaysia if include free lodging and transport etc, but they didn't add in medical benefits, CPF contributions, additional variable bonuses, 13th month, etc? :confused:
simple question are u willing to pay more ? In the form of higher product cost? Service cost and TAX?
I had experienced before. The driver supposed to exit from the highway but instead he continued, so passengers started shouting, then he realised that he had missed the exit so he made a big u-turn and dropped us somewhere nearby, we still had to use our "bus 11" to walk to our place. But not sure whether was it a local or PRC driver.
its human to Err lah... u never miss a turn in ur life meh?
During courtship time, walking will have no problem, hehe:D, you will find that time passes very fast, time not enough, haha.R u in courtship now or then? :ashamed1:
its human to Err lah... u never miss a turn in ur life meh?
Yes human makes error. Some errors can be rectified easily while some might cause you to regret for life.
R u in courtship now or then? :ashamed1:
Haha, you must be kidding. That day was just talking to my husband about our courtship day. He mentioned about we walked all the ways from Capitol to Havelock Road and still felt that the road was too short, so many things to talk, now think over it, also didn't know what we talked during that time.:ashamed1:
Yes human makes error. Some errors can be rectified easily while some might cause you to regret for life.
True. So is a wrong turn a moment to regret ur whole life?
they had done something in their self interest and heck care that they had also affected the lives of many many people who depend on the public transport. maybe the impact of some of these others are serious, or even more serious. we never know. but what we know is even an apology from them cannot reverse what had happened. :simmering:
Haha, you must be kidding. That day was just talking to my husband about our courtship day. He mentioned about we walked all the ways from Capitol to Havelock Road and still felt that the road was too short, so many things to talk, now think over it, also didn't know what we talked during that time.:ashamed1:Wow.. ok... i walk far far only because there were no more bus service and got no money to take cab... Lol... anyway, hope the Malaysian drivers will not follow and go on strike to get more pay rise... 29 PRC drivers suffered just for the other 100+ to get $25 pay increment! Is that worth it? :rolleyes:
buttercarp
04-12-12, 11:30
R u in courtship now or then? :ashamed1:
LOL, although I have been married for almost 2 decades, I still feel like it is courtship :) .
And thanks to this forum, I have so much to talk about with my husband during our free time :) .
I will share with him what the bros and sis talk about here and he will listen intently.
How to make everyday similar to courtship days is to make everything the same like courtship days.
True. So is a wrong turn a moment to regret ur whole life?
don't think they will regret anything. it's a foreign country to them anyway and no impact to their lives back home. :simmering:
don't think they will regret anything. it's a foreign country to them anyway and no impact to their lives back home. :simmering:
I am not looking at nationality. singaporean / malaysian / China drivers wat ever. I dont see any correlation with nationality on a wrong turn. Any nationality also can make mistake missing a turn.
I was on a bus to a Air show this year. Was talking to the bus driver from SBS and he is local. He say its very tough driving in the air show coz they need to do a trip back n forth constantly. And he almost miss a exit coz its just tiring and also stressful coz the SLA expected by the air show on the bus arrival time.
What I am trying to say its not easy doing the bus driver job. Long hrs and monotone.
phantom_opera
04-12-12, 17:49
normally 90% of articles in TR is simply anti-PAP craps .. but I think this article set me pondering
http://www.tremeritus.com/2012/12/03/zero-tolerance-zero-compassion/
zero tolerance, zero compassion :rolleyes:
normally 90% of articles in TR is simply anti-PAP craps .. but I think this article set me pondering
http://www.tremeritus.com/2012/12/03/zero-tolerance-zero-compassion/
zero tolerance, zero compassion :rolleyes:
Frankly it is still anti PAP crap. Coz everyone is crying for blood. Dont take action will attract more attacks. As well as set the presidence for other form of strikes.
Lets take if assumption so call ""compassion n Tolerance" are shown. TR will have head line screaming "Double Standards favor Foreigner Worker""
So frankly TR is full of one sided BS reporting with a 1 sided agenda.
Thats food for thought too. its Bull Shit reporting.
True. So is a wrong turn a moment to regret ur whole life?
Of course for this case, not regret for whole life lah, where got so serious, maybe he had not enough sleep or day-dreaming. Luckily he managed to turn back in time if not we will all end up at Woodlands.:doh: It took me half an hour late to reach home.
For the Rochor accident, then that's regret for whole life.
buttercarp
04-12-12, 19:57
For the Rochor accident, then that's regret for whole life.
That one is literally "unregrettable".
Of course for this case, not regret for whole life lah, where got so serious, maybe he had not enough sleep or day-dreaming. Luckily he managed to turn back in time if not we will all end up at Woodlands.:doh: It took me half an hour late to reach home.
For the Rochor accident, then that's regret for whole life.
True all accident that involves death or maim is regrettable. I still dont see what coroleration that have to do with race or local or non local. u mean its ok for a local to drive a car n kill someone?
Wat abt the lorry driver who drove the lorry into a Kid in Singapore? U mean to say that that is not regrettable accident?
My pt accident is accident its regrettable nothing to do with race or local or foreigners.
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120916-371814.html
not regrettable becoz the kid is not local and drive is singaporean?
What I am trying to say its not easy doing the bus driver job. Long hrs and monotone.
Agree. My brother-in-law was once a bus driver too. When I said about the missing of the exit, I'm not blaming the driver, just want to share my experience only. Sometimes it is good to hear people experience, when they tell you their experience, it doesn't really mean that they are complaining, anyway it is free for them to voice how they feel, share ideas lor.
True all accident that involves death or maim is regrettable. I still dont see what coroleration that have to do with race or local or non local. u mean its ok for a local to drive a car n kill someone?
Wat abt the lorry driver who drove the lorry into a Kid in Singapore? U mean to say that that is not regrettable accident?
My pt accident is accident its regrettable nothing to do with race or local or foreigners.
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120916-371814.html
not regrettable becoz the kid is not local and drive is singaporean?
Did I mention anything about the races, why get so angry, calm down, calm down.:cool:
LOL, although I have been married for almost 2 decades, I still feel like it is courtship :) .
And thanks to this forum, I have so much to talk about with my husband during our free time :) .
I will share with him what the bros and sis talk about here and he will listen intently.
How to make everyday similar to courtship days is to make everything the same like courtship days.
Wow, so lovely. Agree, to have a relationship to prolong, it needs to talk to each other more often. I also pick some of the topics from this forum and share with my husband, it seems that I'm the one who do all the talking, haha. I think someone did mention right, before married, the men do the talking, after married, the women do the talking.:ashamed1:
proud owner
04-12-12, 20:20
nice
then again ... the other way round may not work
if a husband is on the computer all the time ...chatting on Condosingapore.com ...
and he shares with his wife all the info/ news / and jokes ..
will she listen ??
women tend to feel a man is up to no good or not spending enuff time on her .. instead of the forum ..
for those with roots here the chance are they will be more careful and think twice in whatever they do. I can bet with you that the bus driver who overtook my car while I was traveling close to 70km/hr (speed limit) was a foreign driver :doh: the way those heavy construction vehicles are driven are also a great concern. reminds me of how they drive in china :doh:
buttercarp
04-12-12, 20:43
nice
then again ... the other way round may not work
if a husband is on the computer all the time ...chatting on Condosingapore.com ...
and he shares with his wife all the info/ news / and jokes ..
will she listen ??
women tend to feel a man is up to no good or not spending enuff time on her .. instead of the forum ..
Yup, luckily my hubby is glued to his xbox.
But I dunno whether he play live with other players.
But should not be, cos he plays in the family area which is an open area in the house.
nice
then again ... the other way round may not work
if a husband is on the computer all the time ...chatting on Condosingapore.com ...
and he shares with his wife all the info/ news / and jokes ..
will she listen ??
women tend to feel a man is up to no good or not spending enuff time on her .. instead of the forum ..
a woman once told me - men must have vices.
therefore, it is better men have vice - car, forum, photography, hifi, golf.
than women, alcohol, smoke, geylang.
wise woman indeed.
(but she forget.. car can have oral sex, forum can go sammyboy, photography can take playboy photo, hifi... dunno, golf female caddy)
buttercarp
04-12-12, 21:29
a woman once told me - men must have vices.
therefore, it is better men have vice - car, forum, photography, hifi, golf.
than women, alcohol, smoke, geylang.
wise woman indeed.
(but she forget.. car can have oral sex, forum can go sammyboy, photography can take playboy photo, hifi... dunno, golf female caddy)
Yup, men must have something to keep them occupied or their heads will stray.
Some of my female friends control their husbands' xbox, psp time.
I tell them let them be, don't control.
I think men don't usually like to talk about their feelings or about their staff and bosses. So they need some outlet to ventilate and these xbox and psp games are just the right antidote for them.
I was just wondering.. Yes, these PRC drivers broke the law and ought to face the consequences. But, don't they have a right to engage a lawyer to defend them in court? A lawyer who can put SMRT on the witness stand for questioning to find out what actually happened? Or maybe the other four are claiming trial and have not pleaded guilty yet.
or their heads will stray.
which head? :tsk-tsk:
.
Some of my female friends control their husbands' xbox, psp time.
wtf!! this kind of women - men sure stray.
I think men don't usually like to talk about their feelings or about their staff and bosses. So they need some outlet to ventilate and these xbox and psp games are just the right antidote for them.
wise woman indeed. :cheers4:
for those with roots here the chance are they will be more careful and think twice in whatever they do. I can bet with you that the bus driver who overtook my car while I was traveling close to 70km/hr (speed limit) was a foreign driver :doh: the way those heavy construction vehicles are driven are also a great concern. reminds me of how they drive in china :doh:North South Highway in Malaysia already have such driving behaviors. I was overtaken by a tour bus when I was already driving at 110km/h (speed limit)... :doh:
Yup, men must have something to keep them occupied or their heads will stray.
Some of my female friends control their husbands' xbox, psp time.
I tell them let them be, don't control.
I think men don't usually like to talk about their feelings or about their staff and bosses. So they need some outlet to ventilate and these xbox and psp games are just the right antidote for them.
Ya, better don't control too much, as long as he never do harm to the family, let him be. My husband always say that it is so relax to be at home.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/activists-slam-singapore-crackdown-china-strikers-094426827.html
Activists slam Singapore crackdown on China strikers :doh:
phantom_opera
05-12-12, 18:32
just watched CNA ... they interviewed Chinese HR agent ... as what I suspected, gap of salary of China / SG has narrowed to an extent that it may not be attractive for Chinese to come to SG to work anymore ... this incident will further dampen the interest ... it was quoted that pay in South Korea and Europe were much higher than SG
SGD 1000 (or now $1100) ... come on guys ... a taxi driver in SG earns min 3k
I will bet that at the end SBS/SMRT must increase their basic pay to 1,500 in next few years
The question then is whether the Temasek model of private companies making money in public transport services while maintaining service standard is sustainable ...
又要马儿跑，又要马儿不吃草 :rolleyes:
just watched CNA ... they interviewed Chinese HR agent ... as what I suspected, gap of salary of China / SG has narrowed to an extent that it may not be attractive for Chinese to come to SG to work anymore ... this incident will further dampen the interest ... it was quoted that pay in South Korea and Europe were much higher than SG
又要马儿跑，又要马儿不吃草 :rolleyes:
i dun have statistics to prove, but then with the vast chinese population, there will be no end of supply. it will just come from lower and lower tier cities until eventually it dries up.
Actually same for maids, many experienced ones prefer to work in HK rather than staying here. Only the newbies come here and all cannot make it types.
:doh:
http://www.asiaone.com/print/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20111009-304091.html
i dun have statistics to prove, but then with the vast chinese population, there will be no end of supply. it will just come from lower and lower tier cities until eventually it dries up.
That may be the time when our Singaporean grandchildren go China to work as bus drivers and maids. :scared-3:
phantom_opera
05-12-12, 19:14
i dun have statistics to prove, but then with the vast chinese population, there will be no end of supply. it will just come from lower and lower tier cities until eventually it dries up.
aiyo u think ppl stupid is it ... they can get same pay at 1st tier Chinese city why come here ;)
phantom_opera
05-12-12, 19:16
Actually same for maids, many experienced ones prefer to work in HK rather than staying here. Only the newbies come here and all cannot make it types.
:doh:
http://www.asiaone.com/print/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20111009-304091.html
yes, change maid every 1-2y now become the norm, because
1. cmi
2. go back but never come back
3. steal
:doh:
aiyo u think ppl stupid is it ... they can get same pay at 1st tier Chinese city why come here ;)
coz the 2nd tier ones go to 1st tier leow.. so the 3rd tier go to 2nd tier. aiyo, i dun have numbers to prove it. i only know that the number of chinese in this world probably more than all the rice i have eaten in my life (ok ok.. this is exaggeration).. but u get the drift ya?
That may be the time when our Singaporean grandchildren go China to work as bus drivers and maids. :scared-3:
no lah, wun happen. becoz by then singaporean extinct leow. no need to worry abt that.
phantom_opera
05-12-12, 19:30
coz the 2nd tier ones go to 1st tier leow.. so the 3rd tier go to 2nd tier. aiyo, i dun have numbers to prove it. i only know that the number of chinese in this world probably more than all the rice i have eaten in my life (ok ok.. this is exaggeration).. but u get the drift ya?
u must count the agent fee and cost of not living with family ... if 2nd tier city in China offers SGD900 for bus driving vs driving in SG for SG1,100 ... with heavy agent fee, it will not make sense anymore to come
Malaysian driver is different because they either are SPRs with family here or they stay in JB ...
Anyway, the good years of low cost labor is over for us .. next 10y will see $2k basic salary for bus driver, $800 for maids, $1500 for cleaners
Anyway, the good years of low cost labor is over for us .. next 10y will see $2k basic salary for bus driver, $800 for maids, $1500 for cleaners
And the bus fares will also increase followed by the increase in salary.
Actually, if they are not happy with their pay or living conditions, they can talk to their supervisor about it, why want to go on strike, get themselves into trouble. If everybody not happy, go on strikes, isn't Singapore will be in a big mess.
come to think of it, this episode also shows how lowly paid the locals are, where even foreign contract workers demand to match :scared-5:
Learn from mistakes. People like to see that their salaries are high, so don't provide accomodation, don't provide transport, instead give them a certain allowance and add to their pay as allowance, then let them find their own accomodations and take their own transports, so there won't be any complain about the unhygiene environment because they find the accomodation themselves.
I ever come across an advertisement for a delivery man, if you have a van, the pay is $xxxx (higher) and without van, the pay will be $yyyy (lower).
I also came across a case, an employee basic pay was $xxxx + fixed commission allowance $xxx + transport allowance $xxx but he complained that the basic pay was too low, so the boss added the fixed commission allowance to his basic pay, then after that no more complains from this employee anymore.:doh:
come to think of it, this episode also shows how lowly paid the locals are, where even foreign contract workers demand to match :scared-5:
You will be surprised by the increment that we have for the past few years, only $5 to $30 per employee, surprising or not, how to beat the inflation.:doh: Jan'13 increment don't know yet, might be the same again. :banghead: My boss says have increment, not bad already, some companies no increment at all.
And the bus fares will also increase followed by the increase in salary.
Actually, if they are not happy with their pay or living conditions, they can talk to their supervisor about it, why want to go on strike, get themselves into trouble. If everybody not happy, go on strikes, isn't Singapore will be in a big mess.
in all honesty, you tink it will work? the supervisors will just treat it as "noise" and wait for the next batch of 2 yrs contracts to come in lor. that is frankly, how sinkies treat these blue collar workers (perhaps i am guilty myself)
I also came across a case, an employee basic pay was $xxxx + fixed commission allowance $xxx + transport allowance $xxx but he complained that the basic pay was too low, so the boss added the fixed commission allowance to his basic pay, then after that no more complains from this employee anymore.:doh:
got diff.. basic pay entitled to 13th mth bonus. also if change job, basic dun get short changed, but other stuff may be.
in all honesty, you tink it will work? the supervisors will just treat it as "noise" and wait for the next batch of 2 yrs contracts to come in lor. that is frankly, how sinkies treat these blue collar workers (perhaps i am guilty myself)
How about those foreign construction workers, I think their pay are low too and their works are not easy either, have to work under the hot sun.
in all honesty, you tink it will work? the supervisors will just treat it as "noise" and wait for the next batch of 2 yrs contracts to come in lor. that is frankly, how sinkies treat these blue collar workers (perhaps i am guilty myself)
At least, the supervisor is aware of it, if not they will just act dumb to prevent any trouble, in fact most of us are doing that too, haha. We cannot say all supervisors are like that, some are really good, they really help their subordinates to fight for their rights, if you don't try, you won't know.
just watched CNA ... they interviewed Chinese HR agent ... as what I suspected, gap of salary of China / SG has narrowed to an extent that it may not be attractive for Chinese to come to SG to work anymore ... this incident will further dampen the interest ... it was quoted that pay in South Korea and Europe were much higher than SG
SGD 1000 (or now $1100) ... come on guys ... a taxi driver in SG earns min 3k
I will bet that at the end SBS/SMRT must increase their basic pay to 1,500 in next few years
The question then is whether the Temasek model of private companies making money in public transport services while maintaining service standard is sustainable ...
又要马儿跑，又要马儿不吃草 :rolleyes:
Well, if South K and the other countries command better pay, then these FW should go and leave SMRT with no choice but to hire locals at much higher pay then they will feel the pinch. If they raise fares again, then ministers will be lined up in front of firing squad again. Next election is not that far away too. Yes, public services must not be run by private companies! :o
u must count the agent fee and cost of not living with family ... if 2nd tier city in China offers SGD900 for bus driving vs driving in SG for SG1,100 ... with heavy agent fee, it will not make sense anymore to come
Malaysian driver is different because they either are SPRs with family here or they stay in JB ...
Anyway, the good years of low cost labor is over for us .. next 10y will see $2k basic salary for bus driver, $800 for maids, $1500 for cleanersTime to hire drivers from Vietnam and Myanmar... lower labor cost! :rolleyes:
phantom_opera
05-12-12, 21:54
Time to hire drivers from Vietnam and Myanmar... lower labor cost! :rolleyes:
they not good at English, also not good at Chinese, no horse run :rolleyes:
Time to hire drivers from Vietnam and Myanmar... lower labor cost! :rolleyes:
LHD or RHD?
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