View Full Version : Keep resale HDB flats for citizens only?
Avoid feast and famine in housing
Better to have stable supply of new homes every year than try to predict
property cycle
By Han Fook Kwang
When I bought my first property, I didn't know I would still be living in it
27 years later. I had bought it soon after getting married after a year of
house-hunting.
I don't remember it as being an eventful year for property then and I don't
recall being particularly anxious about whether we were buying it at the
right time in the property cycle. We needed a place to call home, we liked
what we found and the price was within our budget.
As it turned out, it was not a bad buy. The house has appreciated in value
about 10 times since, which works out to an increase of about 9 per cent
every year compounded over 27 years. I can't think of anything I have bought for owned which has risen as much in value or as rapidly.
As an individual, this must count as a good thing and a source of some
satisfaction. In fact, my experience is not untypical of many in my
generation and I would think those who bought around the time I did would
have seen similar appreciation in values, some more, others perhaps less,
depending on location.
Singaporeans have generally felt good about how property prices have moved over the years, barring the occasional dips in every economic cycle.
Until quite recently, that is.
There has been a discernible shift in public attitude towards ever-rising
property prices over the last few years and it is important to understand
why this is taking place and what can be done about it.
For a flavour of the negative views being expressed, here is a recent
sampling from the Internet:
Low property prices favour citizens as they help everyone have a roof over
their head. High property prices favour only developers and rich people as
they can make super normal profits and collect rent instead of working hard
and creating value.
The Australian government takes care of citizens and imposes strict
restrictions on property purchases by foreigners, for example, when they
leave, they have to sell, when they sell, they have to sell only to locals,
etc. Why doesn't the Singapore Government take effective steps and also
contribute to raising property prices?
The property owners of today are only raiding the future earnings of the
next generation. How? Well, all these gains in property prices must come
from somewhere. It will come mostly from the next generation. But this will
net the wealthy much more as they own many more and higher-value properties.
These online comments are in response to recent news that some executive
condominium units had been sold for more than $1 million. As with many Net
postings, they are often not logically argued and are laced with an extra
dose of negativism. But the sentiments they represent are real and shared by an increasing number of people here.
Indeed, rising property prices were an issue at the general election last
year. In response, the Government introduced several measures, mostly
increasing the supply in both the public and private housing markets.
Prices, however, have yet to come down.
According to the latest data reported last week, private home prices rose by
0.6 per cent in the third quarter, while the Housing Board resale price
index climbed 1.3 per cent.
This public sourness over property prices is a relatively recent phenomenon
given the history of rising prices here, which has been generally welcomed
by the public.
It shows there is a point beyond which resentment sets in, even if the
majority see the value of their homes going up.
They worry whether their children will be able to afford these prices in the
future, and whether they themselves will be able to upgrade.
Worse, they perceive it as largely favouring one class of people over
another.
It used to be said that property prices cannot rise by too much, otherwise
who would be able to afford them? In other words, prices cannot run too far
ahead of income levels.
This link between prices and incomes is, however, broken when the market is
open to foreigners whose salaries have no connection to those of
Singaporeans.
When rich Chinese, Indians, Indonesians and Malaysians account for a
significant number of the purchases here, prices can run away from the local
population's ability to pay.
The Government's recent measure to make it more expensive for foreigners to buy property through the additional stamp duty was aimed at cooling the
market.
But the Government has never made clear if this will be a permanent feature
of its policy on foreign purchases and the extent it will allow them to
influence prices.
There is clearly a tension between wanting Singapore to be a global city
attractive to foreigners (which includes how open it is to them buying homes
here), and preserving the link between home prices and Singaporeans' income levels.
Getting this balance right is critical to having a successful property
policy which is politically acceptable.
How much should the Government protect local buyers from the purchasing
power of foreigners?
This is an especially important issue with so much surplus money flowing
round the world after so many rounds of loose monetary policies, with
central banks printing money to stimulate their domestic economies.
Should Singapore go the way of Australia, for example, and force foreigners
to sell property back only to citizens?
One word of caution though about the Government's ability to get the
property market right. Its track record of trying to match supply to demand
has in fact been patchy.
In the early 2000s, it was saddled with a record surplus of 25,000 unsold
HDB flats when it overbuilt and demand collapsed following the Asian
financial crisis in 1997.
And the sizzling market of the last two to three years in both the public
and private sectors was clearly the result of it underestimating demand,
which rebounded after the slump of the 2008 financial crisis.
Governments, and not just in Singapore, are often behind the curve when
trying to read the market.
This being the case, the better approach is to aim for a stable supply of
new homes every year and to not try to predict too closely the ups and downs of the property cycle.
There is a steady underlying demand for homes from new households being
formed every year, and even when it falls because of an economic downturn,
the pent-up demand will likely return in subsequent years.
Better to aim for a predictable and transparent policy on how many homes to
build so as to avoid a feast-and-famine situation.
Fortunately, public housing is available for the large majority of
Singaporeans in a market that is largely protected from foreign funds.
These estates today enjoy some of the best facilities - markets, hawker
centres, MRT stations, bus interchanges, sports stadiums and shopping malls, and most have been upgraded to high standards.
Because of the convenience of having these facilities nearby, Singaporeans
are prepared to pay relatively high prices in the resale market for these
flats.
We take this for granted but it could have turned out completely
differently, with few takers, had they become urban slums.
And because the resale market is open to all Singaporeans regardless of
income levels, the prices these flats command reflect their true market
worth.
But there is one tweak to this market which may be needed to make sure it
remains affordable to Singaporeans.
At present, permanent residents are allowed to buy resale HDB flats - this
door was opened to them in 1989, presumably to make the country more
attractive for PRs.
But it might have inadvertently caused prices to move up and, more
critically, weakened the link between local wages and resale prices.
The PR numbers are in fact not insignificant - it was reported last year
that they accounted for 20 per cent of all resale transactions in 2010.
That's one fifth of all sales, enough to move prices significantly.
Making the HDB market - both for new and resale flats - exclusively for
citizens is the best safeguard for the future to ensure that public housing
prices will always remain within reach of the majority of Singaporeans.
Mr Han's article could well have a greater impact on the next cooling measures.
Quote: "Low property prices favour citizens as they help everyone have a roof over their head. High property prices favour only developers and rich people as
they can make super normal profits and collect rent instead of working hard
and creating value.
The Australian government takes care of citizens and imposes strict
restrictions on property purchases by foreigners, for example, when they
leave, they have to sell, when they sell, they have to sell only to locals,
etc. Why doesn't the Singapore Government take effective steps and also
contribute to raising property prices?
The property owners of today are only raiding the future earnings of the
next generation. How? Well, all these gains in property prices must come
from somewhere. It will come mostly from the next generation. But this will
net the wealthy much more as they own many more and higher-value properties." Unquote
I have been saying this since 2009. Only now he realise? :doh:
But after the citizens have roof over their head, they wish the property prices to drop? The answer is obvious. Before they even implement anything that affect the 90% citizens that own properties, better think hard first! :p
Another thing, Singapore rely on foreigners for funding, workers, etc. When foreigners come here to start business, employ workers etc, they need houses to live in. Their workers need houses to live in. To 1 sweep stop all foreigners from owning properties means ask them not to come? Or otherwise should let Citizens buy any number of properties to rent to them right (instead of putting ABSD on citizens as well)? Otherwise where to find properties for them to live in?
Only by having asset appreciation policy will it retain citizens and foreigners to own their properties and make them think long-term to keep singapore as their home country. All these people because of their own selfish agenda will always cow-pay cow-bull why properties so expensive when they have not bought and acted the reverse after they have bought. Human nature I suppose but really ugly when they try to openly lobby for that using all sort of excuses? :doh:
Mr Han's article could well have a greater impact on the next cooling measures.
Quote: "Low property prices favour citizens as they help everyone have a roof over their head. High property prices favour only developers and rich people as
they can make super normal profits and collect rent instead of working hard
and creating value.
The Australian government takes care of citizens and imposes strict
restrictions on property purchases by foreigners, for example, when they
leave, they have to sell, when they sell, they have to sell only to locals,
etc. Why doesn't the Singapore Government take effective steps and also
contribute to raising property prices?
The property owners of today are only raiding the future earnings of the
next generation. How? Well, all these gains in property prices must come
from somewhere. It will come mostly from the next generation. But this will
net the wealthy much more as they own many more and higher-value properties." Unquote
:o :p :p :p Hehehe...agree to some extent. If I know that the price of hdb will be flat, then I would rather rent from gov't and then use the money for other investment...anyway, our great previous gen gov't once say that hdb is a form of investment for our retirement....or did not not read it correctly?...
The only golden question is how fast we allow that appreciation to grow, that maybe keeping out the PR from the HDB market might help? Just my opinion...
But after the citizens have roof over their head, they wish the property prices to drop? The answer is obvious. Before they even implement anything that affect the 90% citizens that own properties, better think hard first! :p
Another thing, Singapore rely on foreigners for funding, workers, etc. When foreigners come here to start business, employ workers etc, they need houses to live in. Their workers need houses to live in. To 1 sweep stop all foreigners from owning properties means ask them not to come? Or otherwise should let Citizens buy any number of properties to rent to them right (instead of putting ABSD on citizens as well)? Otherwise where to find properties for them to live in?
Only by having asset appreciation policy will it retain citizens and foreigners to own their properties and make them think long-term to keep singapore as their home country. All these people because of their own selfish agenda will always cow-pay cow-bull why properties so expensive when they have not bought and acted the reverse after they have bought. Human nature I suppose but really ugly when they try to openly lobby for that using all sort of excuses? :doh:
But after the citizens have roof over their head, they wish the property prices to drop? The answer is obvious. Before they even implement anything that affect the 90% citizens that own properties, better think hard first! :p
Another thing, Singapore rely on foreigners for funding, workers, etc. When foreigners come here to start business, employ workers etc, they need houses to live in. Their workers need houses to live in. To 1 sweep stop all foreigners from owning properties means ask them not to come? Or otherwise should let Citizens buy any number of properties to rent to them right (instead of putting ABSD on citizens as well)? Otherwise where to find properties for them to live in?
Only by having asset appreciation policy will it retain citizens and foreigners to own their properties and make them think long-term to keep singapore as their home country. All these people because of their own selfish agenda will always cow-pay cow-bull why properties so expensive when they have not bought and acted the reverse after they have bought. Human nature I suppose but really ugly when they try to openly lobby for that using all sort of excuses? :doh:
hdb is basic public housing. for those who after owning hdb and aspire more and want to invest, there is the private property market. the two are distinct.
i have said from the start the CMs have been overly-directed at the private pty sector when the sentiments on the ground out there are about hdb prices. the sentiments in this forum is an exception as most here are investors or multiple-pty owners/aspirants.
Before they even implement anything that affect the 90% citizens that own properties, better think hard first! :p
:doh:
If I only "own" one unit for self stay and have many children, my answer to property price drop would be:
I DO NOT CARE!
So how many people are out of your so called 90%?
You only belong to those 1%, Sir!
You can be "rich" (the old money - only knows CCR, missed MM completely),
but don't try to think you are smart enough to fool us to believe that your interest is in line with the 90%.
Thanks,
Richard
PS. Go to vote for "Good Time to Buy", and see how much you can impact the Index. Technology is moving in favor of democracy now.
Allthepies
04-11-12, 10:10
If I only "own" one unit for self stay and have many children, my answer to property price drop would be:
I DO NOT CARE!
So how many people are out of your so called 90%?
You only belong to those 1%, Sir!
You can be "rich" (the old money - only knows CCR, missed MM completely),
but don't try to think you are smart enough to fool us to believe that your interest is in line with the 90%.
Thanks,
Richer
PS. Go to vote for "Good Time to Buy", and see how much you can impact the Index. Technology is moving in favor of democracy now.
I beg to differ, u may want to downgrade to a smaller unit during retirement and will pocket a tidy sum of money which u deserve for working so hard and long to enjoy ur retirement. Let the kids think and fight for themselves. Only through this will they learn to grow positively. Spoon feed them too much is not good for them.
to say u dun care abt ur own asset's value , just shows how short sighted you are.
the way this HDB system operated has created wealth for many ordinary Sporeans, who otherwise will not have a comfortable retirement funds/income/etc. And I'm not talking abt using HDB for investments.
Speak to those old folks who bought HDB at 20k and sold of at 400k and use the proceeds to buy again new at 200k or stay with children, etc. This is a significant wealth transfer in a macro level, for ordinary citizens.
HDB is such a successful social program, it only needs some fine tuning, not overhaul. HDB must remain as a major asset for the lower income.
Allthepies
04-11-12, 10:19
to say u dun care abt ur own asset's value , just shows how short sighted you are.
the way this HDB system operated has created wealth for many ordinary Sporeans, who otherwise will not have a comfortable retirement funds/income/etc. And I'm not talking abt using HDB for investments.
Speak to those old folks who bought HDB at 20k and sold of at 400k and use the proceeds to buy again new at 200k or stay with children, etc. This is a significant wealth transfer in a macro level, for ordinary citizens.
HDB is such a successful social program, it only needs some fine tuning, not overhaul. HDB must remain as a major asset for the lower income.
+100 likes. :D
Although the government has prevented me to own a HDB, I still think government stand on HDB is still beneficial to majority of the citizens.
to say u dun care abt ur own asset's value , just shows how short sighted you are.
the way this HDB system operated has created wealth for many ordinary Sporeans, who otherwise will not have a comfortable retirement funds/income/etc. And I'm not talking abt using HDB for investments.
Speak to those old folks who bought HDB at 20k and sold of at 400k and use the proceeds to buy again new at 200k or stay with children, etc. This is a significant wealth transfer in a macro level, for ordinary citizens.
HDB is such a successful social program, it only needs some fine tuning, not overhaul. HDB must remain as a major asset for the lower income.
good post ;)
I suppose ok for PR to buy resale HDB at mkt price + 10% levy. This levy shd b used for citizens medical n social benefits.
...the government has prevented me to own a HDB...
same for me.
Although I have never benefited a cent from the system, I see many of my relatives benefiting from it. These are ordinary folks, some dun even hold steady jobs.
Resale levy for PR you saying hyenergix ?
Speak to those old folks who bought HDB at 20k and sold of at 400k and use the proceeds to buy again new at 200k or stay with children, etc.
Imagine those uneducated old folks who bought HDB at 20K can only sell the HDB at S$140K after 40 years (that is 5% inflation compounded!), that means the resale market is at S$140K.
Will he have a higher chance to get his grandchildren earlier?
For your information, the 1st hand new HDB are selling at around S$500K now.
HDB is a great policy. But the recent pricing of HDB is NOT.
Thanks,
Richard
PS. Those educated old folks are likely owning multiple private PCs and continue to "educate" those uneducated.
Imagine those uneducated old folks who bought HDB at 20K can only sell the HDB at S$140K after 40 years (that is 5% inflation compounded!), that means the resale market is at S$140K.
Will he have a higher chance to get his grandchildren earlier?
For your information, the 1st hand new HDB are selling at around S$500K now.
HDB is a great policy. But the recent pricing of HDB is NOT.
Thanks,
Richard
PS. Those educated old folks are likely owning multiple private PCs and continue to "educate" those uneducated.
the future generation kids..be mentally prepared..
:doh::doh::doh:
to say u dun care abt ur own asset's value , just shows how short sighted you are.
the way this HDB system operated has created wealth for many ordinary Sporeans, who otherwise will not have a comfortable retirement funds/income/etc. And I'm not talking abt using HDB for investments.
Speak to those old folks who bought HDB at 20k and sold of at 400k and use the proceeds to buy again new at 200k or stay with children, etc. This is a significant wealth transfer in a macro level, for ordinary citizens.
HDB is such a successful social program, it only needs some fine tuning, not overhaul. HDB must remain as a major asset for the lower income.
very clearly such a scenario of continued asset appreciation is not sustainable bcos there are physical and financial constraints to how high hdb prices can go. today's hdb prices are only sustained through ever longer loan tenure undertaken and larger hdb grants. these are clearly warning signs.
the generation that saw and profited from their hdb price appreciation is not likely to be witnessed in future generations.
For your information, the 1st hand new HDB are selling at around S$500K now.
Dun pick extreme samples. New ones in outskirts areas are generally 2-300k for a 4rm flat. Completely affordable for today's graduates.
And "can only sell 140k" etc, what is your point ? Didn't appreciate enough ? I thought you dun care about appreciation, why suddenly you start to care ??
very clearly such a scenario of continued asset appreciation is not sustainable bcos there are physical and financial constraints to how high hdb prices can go. today's hdb prices are only sustained through ever longer loan tenure undertaken and larger hdb grants. these are clearly warning signs.
the generation that saw and profited from their hdb price appreciation is not likely to be witnessed in future generations.
Continual appreciation is sustainable. It's the rate at which it grows, that is the question. I do not disagree on that.
At the very minimum, appreciation over inflation must be maintained. This needs efforts to make it happen.
Btw, the generation that reaped huge profit in th last 3 decades are mostly lucky due to the Singapore story. You can say the same for whose who invested in China a decade ago. The era of such growth is behind us now.
Continual appreciation is sustainable. It's the rate at which it grows, that is the question. I do not disagree on that.
At the very minimum, appreciation over inflation must be maintained. This needs efforts to make it happen.
Btw, the generation that reaped huge profit in th last 3 decades are mostly lucky due to the Singapore story. You can say the same for whose who invested in China a decade ago. The era of such growth is behind us now.
young couples dual income buying BTO needing to stretch loan tenures to 30 yrs is sustainable? very clearly the price hike in recent yrs has way surpassed inflation while wages are stagnating at the middle and lower income level. clearly this is not sustainable.
Allthepies
04-11-12, 11:45
10 yrs ago, starting pay 2.5K, now starting pay 5K.
There are many new BTO at 150-300K. There are also new BTO/DBSS/EC at 500K-1.7mil (the recent EC penthouse). As you all can see there is a wide range of houses to cater to different groups of people.
The reason some couples go for >500K BTO is their OWN choices. Maybe becos they want to be very near town, near MRT, they trade convenience for higher cost of ownership. To me this is a fair trade, I guess these couples also think so or else do you think they are so stupid to still buy?
If the couples want to achieve financial freedom faster, they have ways to do it. If they want to "show" off, they have way to do it too. It all up to their mindsets, planning, lifestyle, what they finally want. The HDB system is such a great system because it allows different couples to achieve their different dreams.
10 yrs ago, starting pay 2.5K, now starting pay 5K.
There are many new BTO at 150-300K. There are also new BTO/DBSS/EC at 500K-1.7mil (the recent EC penthouse). As you all can see there is a wide range of houses to cater to different groups of people.
The reason some couples go for >500K BTO is their OWN choices. Maybe becos they want to be very near town, near MRT, they trade convenience for higher cost of ownership. To me this is a fair trade, I guess these couples also think so or else do you think they are so stupid to still buy?
If the couples want to achieve financial freedom faster, they have ways to do it. If they want to "show" off, they have way to do it too. It all up to their mindsets, planning, lifestyle, what they finally want. The HDB system is such a great system because it allows different couples to achieve their different dreams.
starting pay 5k? which profession lol?
is this the norm for majority young workers entering the workforce? lol
10 yrs ago, starting pay 2.5K, now starting pay 5K..
Sure boH? Majority of fresh grads get $5k as starting pay now? :(
yeah right... reasle for citizen only then people will complain cannot upgrade. short change citizen. the complain will never end.
pple complain rich poor gap coz HDB become cheaper and cheaper while PC still go up..
complain n complain. blame n blame. dont we luv to whine n whine.?
buttercarp
04-11-12, 12:01
Dun pick extreme samples. New ones in outskirts areas are generally 2-300k for a 4rm flat. Completely affordable for today's graduates.
And "can only sell 140k" etc, what is your point ? Didn't appreciate enough ? I thought you dun care about appreciation, why suddenly you start to care ??
To me, it is very important that the first home is affordable.
Like you have said go for the outskirts for a start.
As long as one has a roof over one's head, why complain?
I don't understand why people are complaining when the majority have a roof over their heads.
Complain because they can't upgrade, because they can't afford a better location? Why complain when the basic necessity is there already? They should work hard to their goal.
Sure boH? Majority of fresh grads get $5k as starting pay now? :(
I hired some frash grad. depends .. now its abt $3K-3.2K base.. on avg.. problem is some jobs cant even hire pple to do!
coz no people. fresh grad job hop at the slightest lost of interest. I think its bad habit. and gives local hire a bad reputation.
Allthepies
04-11-12, 12:03
based on services approximate starting pay for first class honors. :D ha not for everyone.
Come on lah, 30 years tenure is for ease of cash flow, not that they really need to. If give me a choice and allow me to loan for a tenure of 99 years I will also do, since my properties are for rental and they are mine to be rented out for 99 years right? Why govt don't allow me to loan for 99 years if the rental is self-sustainable to pay for instalment? Think their new MAS policy quite stupid? :p
young couples dual income buying BTO needing to stretch loan tenures to 30 yrs is sustainable? very clearly the price hike in recent yrs has way surpassed inflation while wages are stagnating at the middle and lower income level. clearly this is not sustainable.
Sure boH? Majority of fresh grads get $5k as starting pay now? :(
I believe he is using a certain discipline/profession as an example. On an ave pay.
Sure boH? Majority of fresh grads get $5k as starting pay now? :(
But I know a lot of people are getting 5k within 3 years after graduation.
Think you all outdated lah.
Didn't you read news that cleaners also can get $3k per month?
Don't you know that fresh law graduates now getting >$4.5k per month?
Don't you know that fresh engineering graduates now getting >$3.4k on average per month?
10 years ago, BTO 4-rm flats about $200k. Fresh engineering graduates getting $2.2k per month.
10 years later BTO 4-rm flats still about $250k and fresh engineering graduates getting $3.4k per month. Income actually increase faster than BTO flat prices! What is there to complain?
And the irony is that 10 years ago, only about 10% of working population are graduates. 10 years later about 20% of working population are graduates. By right their pay should not increase as much because of more competition for same jobs! They should be laughing to the bank instead of complaining! :ashamed1:
The only difference now compared to previously actually is that people demand more, fresh graduates want to be able to afford private condos and not HDBs, diploma holders want BTOs in mature estates near city and not in outskirts! :doh: It is the higher expectations and not the reality that is the problem!
starting pay 5k? which profession lol?
is this the norm for majority young workers entering the workforce? lol
Sure boH? Majority of fresh grads get $5k as starting pay now? :(
Originally Posted by Allthepies
10 yrs ago, starting pay 2.5K, now starting pay 5K.
There are many new BTO at 150-300K. There are also new BTO/DBSS/EC at 500K-1.7mil (the recent EC penthouse). As you all can see there is a wide range of houses to cater to different groups of people.
The reason some couples go for >500K BTO is their OWN choices. Maybe becos they want to be very near town, near MRT, they trade convenience for higher cost of ownership. To me this is a fair trade, I guess these couples also think so or else do you think they are so stupid to still buy?
If the couples want to achieve financial freedom faster, they have ways to do it. If they want to "show" off, they have way to do it too. It all up to their mindsets, planning, lifestyle, what they finally want. The HDB system is such a great system because it allows different couples to achieve their different dreams.
yeah right... reasle for citizen only then people will complain cannot upgrade. short change citizen. the complain will never end.
pple complain rich poor gap coz HDB become cheaper and cheaper while PC still go up..
complain n complain. blame n blame. dont we luv to whine n whine.?
Bro, if everyone like you, I tell you, I super siong. Competition will be stiff. I actually love it when Singaporeans whine and (dine- hahah). In fact 80% complain and 20% seize opportunities. Really, I have no complains on the current situation. I love it when I hear people complain and whine. It means they are not going to do anything productive. They will always hope the govt do something so they won't do anything. :D :D :D
For me, I just analyse and do my thing. In the working world, it is the same thing. Those that complain the most, don't get promoted. Hahahahaha
:cheers3:
But I know a lot of people are getting 5k within 3 years after graduation.
private or govt? :o
Bro, if everyone like you, I tell you, I super siong. Competition will be stiff. I actually love it when Singaporeans whine and (dine- hahah). In fact 80% complain and 20% seize opportunities. Really, I have no complains on the current situation. I love it when I hear people complain and whine. It means they are not going to do anything productive. They will always hope the govt do something so they won't do anything. :D :D :D
For me, I just analyse and do my thing. In the working world, it is the same thing. Those that complain the most, don't get promoted. Hahahahaha
:cheers3:
hah hah.. actually initially few yrs back looking at the trend was a bit worried for Singapore. but then looking further at wat we have comparing with the region after traveling. we are not that bad off so we are on the right track.
but lately I get more n more put off when I read online or the papers forum. its all complain n complain. Nothing constructive. a lot of selfish complains and thoughts. pple must understand there are give n take. to take we have to give. to give then we can take. no such things as I win u loose it all mentality.
same in property a buyer gain is a seller lost. a seller lost is a buyer gain.
anyway.. tats just my thoughs. I am all for a growth for Singapore. coz it will benefit the future. I dont want a Singapore to be come a Brunei, or Vietnam or Malaysia etc.
Think you all outdated lah.
Didn't you read news that cleaners also can get $3k per month?
Don't you know that fresh law graduates now getting >$4.5k per month?
Don't you know that fresh engineering graduates now getting >$3.4k on average per month?
Get real don''t confuse sensationalized news as fact.s
Bro, if everyone like you, I tell you, I super siong. Competition will be stiff. I actually love it when Singaporeans whine and (dine- hahah). In fact 80% complain and 20% seize opportunities. Really, I have no complains on the current situation. I love it when I hear people complain and whine. It means they are not going to do anything productive. They will always hope the govt do something so they won't do anything. :D :D :D
For me, I just analyse and do my thing. In the working world, it is the same thing. Those that complain the most, don't get promoted. Hahahahaha
:cheers3:
i totally agree with u on the 80%/20% thing. people complain when the opportunity comes they still complain n fear! nothing will happen for these folks....
talk is so cheap these days. everyone talk no 1 really do real stuff .
I m actually happy seeing younger generation losing themselves complaining and turning into Gen W (Whiners) as i dont intend to have offsprings. It also means less competition in future when they are more matured and economically significant.
Theres also reason why they r called Gen W. Remember there was X, then Y, but now they are reversing in terms of progress, so backwards now, is W.
I m actually happy seeing younger generation losing themselves complaining and turning into Gen W (Whiners) as i dont intend to have offsprings. It also means less competition in future when they are grown up and economically active.
Theres also reason why they r called Gen W. Remember there was X, then Y, but now they are reversing in terms of progress, so backwards now, is W.
sigh. on the other hand I am more concern of that. The next Gen should be more constructive. Critical but constructive. Dont just keep Wining.
I hope for a more mature generation.
Bro, when u start traveling? I have been traveling for 20 years. It's when u travel, u come to appreciate Singapore. So honestly, I really don't blame the people who complain. U hear people want to go Aus, but they will find out Aus has prejudices, high cost of living, high taxes, etc.... Only when they are there.
I still love Singapore. Safe, transparent, family support, etc... But one thing I found out early was u need money to retire and decided to get the money. That's all. No complains, just plans and execution. Now I :D :D
hah hah.. actually initially few yrs back looking at the trend was a bit worried for Singapore. but then looking further at wat we have comparing with the region after traveling. we are not that bad off so we are on the right track.
but lately I get more n more put off when I read online or the papers forum. its all complain n complain. Nothing constructive. a lot of selfish complains and thoughts. pple must understand there are give n take. to take we have to give. to give then we can take. no such things as I win u loose it all mentality.
same in property a buyer gain is a seller lost. a seller lost is a buyer gain.
anyway.. tats just my thoughs. I am all for a growth for Singapore. coz it will benefit the future. I dont want a Singapore to be come a Brunei, or Vietnam or Malaysia etc.
Used to like Singapore a lot. Now much less.
Amk: yes, impose addition buyer stamp duty for PRs.
Still like Singapore a lot.
Where on Earth can you buy a place to stay and still get paid.
In 1988 get my first 4 room HDB paid 83k and sell 1995 and HDB paid me 180k.
In 1996 get my second 5 room HDB paid 250k and now get paid 2.4k a month.
In 2006 get my first PC now get paid 4.1k a month.
Now staying in France and someone help me pay part of the rental and give me COLA.
Waiting for my next pay master.
Used to like Singapore a lot. Now much less.
Amk: yes, impose addition buyer stamp duty for PRs.
singapore has turn into money making machine..
;)
Still like Singapore a lot.
Where on Earth can you buy a place to stay and still get paid.
In 1988 get my first 4 room HDB paid 83k and sell 1995 and HDB paid me 180k.
In 1996 get my second 5 room HDB paid 250k and now get paid 2.4k a month.
In 2006 get my first PC now get paid 4.1k a month.
Now staying in France and someone help me pay part of the rental and give me COLA.
Waiting for my next pay master.
good for early property rider :D
Still like Singapore a lot.
Where on Earth can you buy a place to stay and still get paid.
Now staying in France and someone help me pay part of the rental and give me COLA.
Waiting for my next pay master.
Good for non-residents?
Thanks,
Richard
Ok, enough on what the policy SHOULD be.
Let's move on to discuss what the policy WILL likely be, and how we can react.
The article appears on Main Stream Media Strait Times.
The writer is chief Editor Han Fook Kwang.
So it is safe to assume he is a messenger.
If I were a PR, I will immediately grab a resale HDB flat before the new policy is officially announced. So short term the resale HDB price will indeed go UP.
But longer term, HDB price will be have a cap.
New PRs can only rent or buy PCs. Hopefully the side effect is that we will get better quality PRs (just like 20 year ago when I was a PR, lol).
In future, the upgraders will have a hard time.
But if they put an income cap for resale HDB as well, the mass market PCs demand might be able to hold.
So for most forumers, please don't worry too much.
In future, HDB price drop doesn't automatically mean PC price drop.
they might go two difference directions:
HDB keeps dropping, an utility item
and PC keeps going up, an investment item.
Thanks,
Richard
PS. My Hong Kong friend (Singapore citizen now) with 4 properties had sold his HDB as he foresaw restrictions coming a year ago.
What will you do if you are the gov.
Built lots of HDB or sell more land to built PC?
A million HDB is already a lot why need to built more. Do you know anyone in Singapore do not have a floor over their head now.
I will announce lots of HDB in the pipeline than slowly built them, on the other hand sell as many land as the developer can built.
Use to think when I go to the Bank and borrow money, the money they lend me is someone deposit.
The interesting thing is that every loan that comes from a bank or building society is created from the signature of the borrower. To put it simply, this is how it works. You walk into a bank to get a loan, and end up signing a loan agreement or promissory note. This note is effectively exchanged for brand new money. This happens because the note is an asset to the bank since you will be making payments based on it. So the note is an asset, and a liability is created off of it. This liability is in the form of a loan account or drawing account. The bank can then write a cheque off of this new account to pay the seller of the house or car, or if it is a personal loan, this cheque will be given to you to be deposited in whatever bank you choose.
http://understandingcommerce.weebly.com/money-explained.html
What will you do if you are the gov.
Built lots of HDB or sell more land to built PC?
A million HDB is already a lot why need to built more. Do you know anyone in Singapore do not have a floor over their head now.
I will announce lots of HDB in the pipeline than slowly built them, on the other hand sell as many land as the developer can built.
Use to think when I go to the Bank and borrow money, the money they lend me is someone deposit.
The interesting thing is that every loan that comes from a bank or building society is created from the signature of the borrower. To put it simply, this is how it works. You walk into a bank to get a loan, and end up signing a loan agreement or promissory note. This note is effectively exchanged for brand new money. This happens because the note is an asset to the bank since you will be making payments based on it. So the note is an asset, and a liability is created off of it. This liability is in the form of a loan account or drawing account. The bank can then write a cheque off of this new account to pay the seller of the house or car, or if it is a personal loan, this cheque will be given to you to be deposited in whatever bank you choose.
http://understandingcommerce.weebly.com/money-explained.html
Thats how a financial system works. Unless the preference is to be like Vietnam? Where there is no trust in the country currency. So house is price in Gold. Where everyone would convert thier spare cash to GOLD,USD etc.?
Ok, enough on what the policy SHOULD be.
Let's move on to discuss what the policy WILL likely be, and how we can react.
The article appears on Main Stream Media Strait Times.
The writer is chief Editor Han Fook Kwang.
So it is safe to assume he is a messenger.
If I were a PR, I will immediately grab a resale HDB flat before the new policy is officially announced. So short term the resale HDB price will indeed go UP.
But longer term, HDB price will be have a cap.
New PRs can only rent or buy PCs. Hopefully the side effect is that we will get better quality PRs (just like 20 year ago when I was a PR, lol).
In future, the upgraders will have a hard time.
But if they put an income cap for resale HDB as well, the mass market PCs demand might be able to hold.
So for most forumers, please don't worry too much.
In future, HDB price drop doesn't automatically mean PC price drop.
they might go two difference directions:
HDB keeps dropping, an utility item
and PC keeps going up, an investment item.
Thanks,
Richard
PS. My Hong Kong friend (Singapore citizen now) with 4 properties had sold his HDB as he foresaw restrictions coming a year ago.
Why quote a Hong Kong Friend? I have true blue singaporean sitting on anything from 3 to 6 property. Who are happy camper collecting rent. Becoz the believe in the early remaking SGP story. Ironically some are waiting or hoping for a dip so they can still enter.
I also have Some younger friends ( also singaporean) who dont own anything now coz they sold their home sold n waiting for 5 yrs since 2008 for a crash. Told them go buy a HDB while waiting but stubborn and insist that house is utility . Well its not that they cannot afford a HDB but once they own a PC must own back a PC....
It dont make sense to destroy the housing price i.e. HDB coz doing that will create more chaos and create more unhappiness.
My view moving forward....
HDB price growth will sold maybe dip a bit ( dip as in low COV).
PC will stagnate given the Asia slow down.
Inflation in Singapore would cause price increase across the board including HDB or PC. ( this is a self inflicted issued due to short sighted complains + external QE factors)
moving forward my main concern is all the NOISE interfere with the growth of the country and the neighbor like Indonesia catches up or even if Najib get his act right making Malaysia more attractive.
What will you do if you are a European?
Leave your money in the bank and see it depreciate or buy a property in Singapore.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/1235096/1/.html
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HMCHSpOxvsU/UJaF-8XBi7I/AAAAAAAAJCY/V2sxHWWYsj8/s812/1352041977100.png
What will you do if you are a European?
Leave your money in the bank and see it depreciate or buy a property in Singapore.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/1235096/1/.html
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HMCHSpOxvsU/UJaF-8XBi7I/AAAAAAAAJCY/V2sxHWWYsj8/s812/1352041977100.png
If I am a european? go protest the austerity!
They are those without the money, those with the money are in other place making more money.
http://www.eurasians.org.sg/media/st_eurasian-reunion-22-march-page-001/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Sheares
They are those without the money, those with the money are in other place making more money.
http://www.eurasians.org.sg/media/st_eurasian-reunion-22-march-page-001/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Sheares
are u eurasian...:cool:
What will you do if you are a European?
Leave your money in the bank and see it depreciate or buy a property in Singapore.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/1235096/1/.html
SG cometh to the rescue with FTA ('Free of Tax' Apartments)!!=
The high resale value of hdb flats don't exist in a vacuum. Just need to look at the yield.
phantom_opera
05-11-12, 08:18
Today paper lky said again hdb as an asset will continue to appreciate and he cautioned owners not to sell... Huat ah
The next CM could be targetted at HDB resale market.
The next CM could be targetted at HDB resale market.
Bro, what is the rationale???? 80% of population have 1.
I hired some frash grad. depends .. now its abt $3K-3.2K base.. on avg.. problem is some jobs cant even hire pple to do!
coz no people. fresh grad job hop at the slightest lost of interest. I think its bad habit. and gives local hire a bad reputation.
Ask you a question..
if it's a 40yr old local with the relevant qualification and experience applying for your fresh grad job at your $3k level (but previous salary is higher).. would you hire him?
To cool hdb prices, they need to cool down the rental. But if they don't allow hdb to be tenanted out. Private condo rentals will shoot. And the gap between hdb and pc could widen. Those looking to upgrade within the 80% will not be happy.
Bro, what is the rationale???? 80% of population have 1.
U see the straitstimes guy got an article on this, yest mm lee also commented.
To cool hdb prices, they need to cool down the rental. But if they don't allow hdb to be tenanted out. Private condo rentals will shoot. And the gap between hdb and pc could widen. Those looking to upgrade within the 80% will not be happy.
So back to basic. Is the role of gov to provide hdb owners chance to upgrade? Or a quality public housing?
Quality housing with the option to upgrade. The wealth divide will become more glaring if they upgraders can't upgrade. The gap used to be a few hundred k. Now it is half a mio.
Ask you a question..
if it's a 40yr old local with the relevant qualification and experience applying for your fresh grad job at your $3k level (but previous salary is higher).. would you hire him?
I was drawing almost 6k, but i really dont mind 3k .... But employers probably think ur toying with them, that even if serious u wont stay long for them.
The only way out, as i see it, is to switch to a totally new industry and start afresh at the fresh grad pay. Tell them u want a change of environment and learn new skills.
U see the straitstimes guy got an article on this, yest mm lee also commented.
If mm comes out to make a comment, u can be dead sure its warning for u to get ready....
I was drawing almost 6k, but i really dont mind 3k .... But employers probably think ur toying with them, that even if serious u wont stay long for them.
The only way out, as i see it, is to switch to a totally new industry and start afresh at the fresh grad pay. Tell them u want a change of environment and learn new skills.
I think age is the limiting factor in your application, not the salary you are asking :) Older workers generally don't switch job as much as the youngsters.
So, employers saying they cannot find workers willing to do.. might have to ask their HR to consider older workers.
U see the straitstimes guy got an article on this, yest mm lee also commented.
So how to get CM to target HDB. This part I dont get??
I think age is the limiting factor in your application, not the salary you are asking :) Older workers generally don't switch job as much as the youngsters.
So, employers saying they cannot find workers willing to do.. might have to ask their HR to consider older workers.
I m a dragon... Not that old!!!
Maybe not old enough for the lower cpf contributions thats why... Like macham not young not old middle of nowhere.
Quality housing with the option to upgrade. The wealth divide will become more glaring if they upgraders can't upgrade. The gap used to be a few hundred k. Now it is half a mio.depends how you compare. HDB in queenstown upgrade to yishun condo gap very narrow. if upgrade to sentosa, the gap very big lor. so back to upgrading, is it just upgrade to private property or upgrade in terms of location?
So how to get CM to target HDB. This part I dont get??i also dont get it, just a hunch. when mm lee make a comment, my balls shrink.
i also dont get it, just a hunch. when mm lee make a comment, my balls shrink.
This is the article :
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC121104-0000049/Public-housing-must-keep-up-with-rising-aspirations-of-people--Ex-MM-Lee
This is the article :
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC121104-0000049/Public-housing-must-keep-up-with-rising-aspirations-of-people--Ex-MM-Lee
Oh. He's just preparing us for upcoming $2m Pinnacle Duxton hdb sales.
Oh. He's just preparing us for upcoming $2m Pinnacle Duxton hdb sales.
Lol.. he always liked to come in to give the young leaders headache..
everyone trying to cool down market and say hdb affordable and within reach.
he come out and tell people it can only go higher...
So how... he give every property investors another reason to be bullish on Singapore.. :(
Lol.. he always liked to come in to give the young leaders headache..
everyone trying to cool down market and say hdb affordable and within reach.
he come out and tell people it can only go higher...
So how... he give every property investors another reason to be bullish on Singapore.. :(
Bro, new flats are affordable wat. Parents just give 60k as down can already. Each side give 30k, no prob wat. If he say prices will drop 30%, out of the 80% in hdb, how many u think will get upset?
Bro, new flats are affordable wat. Parents just give 60k as down can already. Each side give 30k, no prob wat. If he say prices will drop 30%, out of the 80% in hdb, how many u think will get upset?
No argument on that.
I always think new BTOs are very affordable especially to households with two degree holders. Most of my friends/colleagues are almost always on track to pay off the entire loan by 40 yrs old.
And you do not even need parents' money for most poly/degree holders.
But sometimes in life.. we feel for those who have lesser.. and we tend to feel the govt. is not doing enough to help. Of course, after this general election, I find the govt. have been starting to push out more policies to help and is becoming more aware of listening to the needs of its people. There is a fine balance.. but let's not call those who feedback whiners..(which i find a lot of people do). You do not need to have a solution for every feedback you give. They called it constructive feedback.. but can we have just plain old feedback and you go do something constructive about it? :)
Btw, had my hair cut by a 36yrs old singaporean male hairdresser today, he lamented on the state of the housing and how he is falling thru the crack as he is single. This is a feedback.. it is not a complain.. and i dont think it's fair for him to come out with a solution.
on a sidenote, it's heartening to see more former establishment people coming out to speak on issues affecting singaporeans.. Financial guru Leong Tze Hian, Ambassor Tommy Koh... prof Lim.. and now the GIC Yeoh.
http://yoursdp.org/news/2012-11-05-5432
Disclaimer : I am not SDP Supporter. :)
Sorry... addendum :
Resale flats are not exactly cheap for a hairdresser who is a single. This is a feedback.. it is not a complain.. and i dont think it's fair for him to come out with a solution. Of course.. like i say..govt have listen and now exploring this option.. hopefully, something constructive comes out of it.
Why quote a Hong Kong Friend?
No offense, there are a couple of times that HK property action is a leading indicator for Singapore CMs: Increase downpayment for 2nd property, introduction of ABSD, etc.
So my HK friend might have sensed something a year ago and sold his HDB (while keeping the PCs).
Thanks,
Richard
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