View Full Version : Singapore's ideal population size? We can afford six million, says PM Lee
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-s-ideal-population-size--six-million--says-pm-lee.html
Six million.
That's the total number of people Singapore can afford to accomodate in the near future, says Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong as quoted by Channel NewsAsia.
Responding to a question from the host during a recorded panel discussion on MediaCorp, PM Lee said, "It's very hard to give a concrete figure, because the situation is evolving. We're gradually increasing our land area, and if we rebuild our older towns,then we can accommodate more people."
"Today our population is over 5 million. In the future, 6 million or so should not be a problem. Beyond that, we'll have to think more carefully," Mr Lee added.
He was responding to a question by host Chun Guek Lay who had asked what was Singapore's ideal population target.
As of December last year, Singapore's population stood at 5.26 million.
Singapore's ideal population size has been a bone of contention in recent years as the country struggles to cope with the influx of foreigners and a record low birth rate.
There you are, the boss has spoken. We still can add about 800k new citizens/PR.
Assuming family size of 3: 266 666 houses needed
Assuming family size of 4: 200 000 houses needed
So are we going to be over-supply of housing in 2015 or not? More $1m HDB coming soon! Maybe $1.5m is around the corner. This could translate to mass market OCR condo being priced at $1500 psf and above (non-mm units of course, cos mm units will be priced at $2000 psf and above for mass market condo).
Allthepies
23-09-12, 08:54
wow, wat r we waiting for? hoot ah buy more properties and related stuffs! huat ah! those who looking for home stay also dont worry, lots of good, big and cheap BTO for u unless u r so status conscious! so all happy and huat:):)
The bidding for land banks (enbloc, GLS) all going to be very aggressive for the next 2 to 3 years, increased building costs, inflation, etc all point to super high psf.
The thing about a statement like this is developers and investors the world over are going to pour money in here...darn the 10% ABSD for foreigners all of a sudden look cheap!
The bidding for land banks (enbloc, GLS) all going to be very aggressive for the next 2 to 3 years, increased building costs, inflation, etc all point to super high psf.
The thing about a statement like this is developers and investors the world over are going to pour money in here...darn the 10% ABSD for foreigners all of a sudden look cheap!
Yep. USD had depreciated 8.4% against SGD in the last 1 year, the 10% ABSD is nothing for someone looking to park the money in a safe haven.
Ya, the calculation is quite logical and it depends on the timeframe he is talking about as well. Assuming for the next five yrs with gradual increase of 40k units required (160k ppl coming in each yr). Even if u stretch to 10 yrs with 20k units required for the new immigrants, there shouldn't be any over supply...:p :2cents:
Property should be steadily moving up, I think the key is to maintain the gradual increase, soft landing...:2cents:
There you are, the boss has spoken. We still can add about 800k new citizens/PR.
Assuming family size of 3: 266 666 houses needed
Assuming family size of 4: 200 000 houses needed
So are we going to be over-supply of housing in 2015 or not? More $1m HDB coming soon! Maybe $1.5m is around the corner. This could translate to mass market OCR condo being priced at $1500 psf and above (non-mm units of course, cos mm units will be priced at $2000 psf and above for mass market condo).
phantom_opera
23-09-12, 10:06
Rule II of phantom: each 100k extra productive population will boost psf by 100psf, 400k extra 400psf, don't u see OCR psf rises from 800 to 1200psf liao
There is still a floating population to be added to it. :eek:
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-s-ideal-population-size--six-million--says-pm-lee.html
Six million.
That's the total number of people Singapore can afford to accomodate in the near future, says Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong as quoted by Channel NewsAsia.
Responding to a question from the host during a recorded panel discussion on MediaCorp, PM Lee said, "It's very hard to give a concrete figure, because the situation is evolving. We're gradually increasing our land area, and if we rebuild our older towns,then we can accommodate more people."
"Today our population is over 5 million. In the future, 6 million or so should not be a problem. Beyond that, we'll have to think more carefully," Mr Lee added.
He was responding to a question by host Chun Guek Lay who had asked what was Singapore's ideal population target.
As of December last year, Singapore's population stood at 5.26 million.
Singapore's ideal population size has been a bone of contention in recent years as the country struggles to cope with the influx of foreigners and a record low birth rate.
Yes we are NO 1 again...:D
http://www.tremeritus.com/2010/07/22/singapore-is-the-most-overpopulated-country-in-the-world/
Allthepies
23-09-12, 11:09
Yes we are NO 1 again...:D
http://www.tremeritus.com/2010/07/22/singapore-is-the-most-overpopulated-country-in-the-world/
based on this crapy report, Singapore can only have 40,000 population :doh::doh:
so we can start killing Singaporeans for the greater good of Singapore... better quickly change ur citizenship or vote wisely (don't vote for the party who put up this crapy report) unless u want to be slaughtered...:D:D:D
That's the total number of people Singapore can afford to accomodate in the near future, says Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong as quoted by Channel NewsAsia.
These are the two most important words : NEAR FUTURE.
If u see the voting in yahoo, majority are ANGRY??? But I voted "HAPPY". This was the first word my girl learnt when she was only 13 months old....
blackapple
23-09-12, 11:17
There you are, the boss has spoken. We still can add about 800k new citizens/PR.
Assuming family size of 3: 266 666 houses needed
Assuming family size of 4: 200 000 houses needed
5.2 million, the government round off to 5 million.
Does 6 million population mean 6.99 million or just 6 million ? :scared-1: :scared-1:
UltimateAro888
23-09-12, 11:19
With influx of these people, they will content with local for job opportunities. I will reckoned most will be professional..
A lot of mnc are already in process of cutting, retrenching people. There is already a pool of local talents looking for jobs..with these influx, wouldn't it put pressure on existing job market driving investment downwards?
Job stability will impact investment in property mkt. But, some of enough liquidity may also turn to investment of additional property to collect income?
Food for thought whether thus effect is positive or negative..
I take it as positive. It is a chicken and egg issue. The gatekeeper are smarter now, they know what to do....when economy starts to turn and u have a tight labour market, that would also impact the growth...:)
we are still very much in a crunch in the labour market even though the outlook is not very good. And this cloudy outlook has been there for a few years and likely it will drag on. So, either they let in more ppl with higher salary scale (professionals), who can easily afford to buy house here, or they let in more ppl mid to lower range salary scale, who are likely to rent a unit here, both are good for the property market. Whether it will impact the job market depends on how they do the filtering...:2cents:
With influx of these people, they will content with local for job opportunities. I will reckoned most will be professional..
A lot of mnc are already in process of cutting, retrenching people. There is already a pool of local talents looking for jobs..with these influx, wouldn't it put pressure on existing job market driving investment downwards?
Job stability will impact investment in property mkt. But, some of enough liquidity may also turn to investment of additional property to collect income?
Food for thought whether thus effect is positive or negative..
whatever the policy may be, as long as u r on the boat (Noah's ark) u will HUAT!
A permanent long term goal they should focus on is 12m population by fully utilizing all the islands around Singapore, including Pulau Tekong & Pulau Ubin, Lim Chu Kang, and Simpang.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-s-ideal-population-size--six-million--says-pm-lee.html
Six million.
That's the total number of people Singapore can afford to accomodate in the near future, says Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong as quoted by Channel NewsAsia.
Responding to a question from the host during a recorded panel discussion on MediaCorp, PM Lee said, "It's very hard to give a concrete figure, because the situation is evolving. We're gradually increasing our land area, and if we rebuild our older towns,then we can accommodate more people."
"Today our population is over 5 million. In the future, 6 million or so should not be a problem. Beyond that, we'll have to think more carefully," Mr Lee added.
He was responding to a question by host Chun Guek Lay who had asked what was Singapore's ideal population target.
As of December last year, Singapore's population stood at 5.26 million.
Singapore's ideal population size has been a bone of contention in recent years as the country struggles to cope with the influx of foreigners and a record low birth rate.
A permanent long term goal they should focus on is 12m population by fully utilizing all the islands around Singapore, including Pulau Tekong & Pulau Ubin, Lim Chu Kang, and Simpang.
I think, if that happens, I will stay at home everyday and dare not go out....everywhere is crowded
There you are, the boss has spoken. We still can add about 800k new citizens/PR.
Assuming family size of 3: 266 666 houses needed
Assuming family size of 4: 200 000 houses needed
So are we going to be over-supply of housing in 2015 or not? More $1m HDB coming soon! Maybe $1.5m is around the corner. This could translate to mass market OCR condo being priced at $1500 psf and above (non-mm units of course, cos mm units will be priced at $2000 psf and above for mass market condo).
Is the 800k referring to new citizens/PR? or like the current mix of 75% Work-permits and 10% S-pass and 15% EPs. If that's the case.. then it will be..
800k * 10% = 80k S-pass
800k * 15% = 120k EPs
So S-pass usually 4 to a unit = 80k/4 = 20k units
EPs usually 2 to a unit = 120k/2 = 60k units.
Total needed is 80k units in the NEAR FUTURE, Not next year or the year after. But 80k spread over say 5yrs = 16k units per year of new demand.
I think, this round, Govt is going to be very selective in bringing in high value add...
Yes we are NO 1 again...:D
http://www.tremeritus.com/2010/07/22/singapore-is-the-most-overpopulated-country-in-the-world/
Well we choose wat we want to see. do you feel as crowded in Singapore or in hongkong? So I wont trust these online stuff much.. they are interest is to sensationalize articles. why? they get paid by views for the adverts.
5.2 million, the government round off to 5 million.
Does 6 million population mean 6.99 million or just 6 million ? :scared-1: :scared-1:
If we have 6M people would also means Singapore is a vibrant city thats why people want to come here. Anyone here would like to stay in Brunei?
With influx of these people, they will content with local for job opportunities. I will reckoned most will be professional..
A lot of mnc are already in process of cutting, retrenching people. There is already a pool of local talents looking for jobs..with these influx, wouldn't it put pressure on existing job market driving investment downwards?
Job stability will impact investment in property mkt. But, some of enough liquidity may also turn to investment of additional property to collect income?
Food for thought whether thus effect is positive or negative..
Its interesting some time (abt 2yrs) back I have a friend who argued that all this influx of cheap labour is taking Singaporean job. Well the people have spoken the S-Pass and EP have been revised to 4K.
So Now MNC move some of the operation to Malaysia where they hire cheaper. Nett effect MNC move out well yes less FT here but also some Singaporean jobs are lost. Unlikly these MNC will relocate back to Singapore as the cost no long make sense here.
Why? Coz it just business if u have a business to run n ur budget is $3K a head. where u choose to locate ur business will depend on the cost of labour and infra.
Dont go down the road like Japan did. Keep a open mind. If the MNC comes it create jobs for Singaporean n with it come FT I dont see wats the harm. Win Win. I am sure many land lord here are also happy campers becoz of that too.
I think, if that happens, I will stay at home everyday and dare not go out....everywhere is crowded
Well if the city is vibrant :) if u take the population and land ratio. comparing Manhattan to Singapore. 12M is abt right ratio.
But much said not everyone like to live in Manhattan.
But if Singapore can be come like Manhattan we would be a interesting place to be.
2012 numbers will be interesting. I really want to see the population growth again. BTW, I will be making my move to get another property within 1 month. Now sourcing around.
Why do you think the govt announcing new mrt lines left, right, centre and NS line, 800 buses, GLS etc. The country is being primed to welcome another 700+k soon. All this new investment not entirely meant for the current lot of people only.
Why do you think the govt announcing new mrt lines left, right, centre and NS line, 800 buses, GLS etc. The country is being primed to welcome another 700+k soon. All this new investment not entirely meant for the current lot of people only.
There are many sign that is pointing towards that. If you start to see PUB awarding major sewage contracts for greenfield land, that means, more land is going to be use for homes.
There are many sign that is pointing towards that. If you start to see PUB awarding major sewage contracts for greenfield land, that means, more land is going to be use for homes.
Well could also be to build to stabilize. Demand curently. Anyway he say can support 6m never say when will hit 6m. Can be 10yr can be 20yrs
Well could also be to build to stabilize. Demand curently. Anyway he say can support 6m never say when will hit 6m. Can be 10yr can be 20yrs
Cannot be over 10 years. We are such an impatient nation! The sooner the better mentality. My guess the 6M target will be breached in 5 to 7 years. That's when the stars are all aligned, infrastructure wise.
Cannot be over 10 years. We are such an impatient nation! The sooner the better mentality. My guess the 6M target will be breached in 5 to 7 years. That's when the stars are all aligned, infrastructure wise.
Looking at the due completion for downtown line and tsl, tat should give some indication. About slightly less than 10yrs.
Looking at the due completion for downtown line and tsl, tat should give some indication. About slightly less than 10yrs.
not forgetting the erl..:cheers5:
In yr 2000, our population is 4mil
In yr 2010, our population is 5mil
Increase is 1mil in 10yrs. Among this about 245k citizen, 250k PR & 550k non-residents.
Using the above past statistics as a gauge, to increase by another 800k from 5.2mil to 6mil will take at most 8yrs. Of which 500k to 600k are SC & PR. The rest will be non-residents. Just my personal estimation.
By 2020 we should be able to hit 6mil. :2cents:
phantom_opera
23-09-12, 22:16
It seems like every thread is turning into dark side now :p
2020 just sounds rite. If I remember correctly , he mentioned that will be his last year as the boss.
What exactly has changed? I thought the projection is always for 6.5m population? Isn't that the planning perimeter all along?
What exactly has changed? I thought the projection is always for 6.5m population? Isn't that the planning perimeter all along?
I think 6.5mil is still in the government plan. But 6mil is a milestone or psychological barrier for people to accept. Once this barrier is removed, 6.5mil is next but government will be careful not to increased to 7mil or more yet.
I think 6.5mil is still in the government plan. But 6mil is a milestone or psychological barrier for people to accept. Once this barrier is removed, 6.5mil is next but government will be careful not to increased to 7mil or more yet.Yes... the key word is 'yet'... its only a matter of time... :rolleyes:
If the 6M and probably more are mentioned, what is the purpose of the govt releasing a white paper to solicit feedback etc about population growth etc? What's this about if the numbers are already confirmed by PM.
They are consolidating what is the max population & population growth acceptable over next 20 years?
To me, I hope Singapore can prosper for next 200 years and even more and to be able to do so, I believe Singapore needs 12m population. That is what I will tell them when they seek feedback.
If the 6M and probably more are mentioned, what is the purpose of the govt releasing a white paper to solicit feedback etc about population growth etc? What's this about if the numbers are already confirmed by PM.
They are consolidating what is the max population & population growth acceptable over next 20 years?
To me, I hope Singapore can prosper for next 200 years and even more and to be able to do so, I believe Singapore needs 12m population. That is what I will tell them when they seek feedback.
I agree if we want to be Manhattan of Asia.
In yr 2000, our population is 4mil
In yr 2010, our population is 5mil
Increase is 1mil in 10yrs. Among this about 245k citizen, 250k PR & 550k non-residents.
Using the above past statistics as a gauge, to increase by another 800k from 5.2mil to 6mil will take at most 8yrs. Of which 500k to 600k are SC & PR. The rest will be non-residents. Just my personal estimation.
By 2020 we should be able to hit 6mil. :2cents:
government is definitely slowing down for inflow of foreigners, last year only granted 16000, and I heard that it is now getting hard to apply for PR as well.
Singapore granted some 16,000 citizenships to foreigners in 2011. Between 2008 and 2010, the figure was between 18,000 and 20,000.
government is definitely slowing down for inflow of foreigners, last year only granted 16000, and I heard that it is now getting hard to apply for PR as well.
In the 90s, it was also rather difficult to be granted PR.
Just a few years back, it was very easy to get PR for some foreigners. (Eg. Malaysian Chinese with just three months work/residence in Singapore)
However, the benefit of getting PR in the 90s and the situation now is very different.
At that time there was not so much distinction between citizens and PR other than voting rights.
I think it would be good to go back to the mode in the 90s, where it is rather difficult to get PR but the benefits etc would be close but not on par to citizens, so tat the PRs would stay.
Many foreigners are coming to Singapore for just a few years and go to another country which welcome them better than Singapore. If we want to retain these foreigner, we need to make them feel at home. Of course, only the selected few.
I think many people here are jumping the gun here. The 6.5m population is always the planning perimeter. There is really nothing new in PM Lee's comments. He is playing it safe as this is just a start of a wider conversation about our immigration policy going forward.
And I think the 67% of only 30 forum participants who agree to more immigrants might not be reflective of the mood on the ground. And who in this forum can say without a doubt that there are no political ramifications to ever increasing property prices?
I think we should just sit tight and not jump the gun.......
I think many people here are jumping the gun here. The 6.5m population is always the planning perimeter. There is really nothing new in PM Lee's comments. He is playing it safe as this is just a start of a wider conversation about our immigration policy going forward.
And I think the 67% of only 30 forum participants who agree to more immigrants might not be reflective of the mood on the ground. And who in this forum can say without a doubt that there are no political ramifications to ever increasing property prices?
I think we should just sit tight and not jump the gun.......
Yeah like all capacity planning u cant plan just right for the infra. If they plan 6.5M but under utilized then fine. if need to then go the the 6.5M lor. I think Singapore at 6.5M still comfortable.
I dont feel its as crowded as HK yet. at least our urban planning is better than HK.
Most important is we continue to prosper , generate jobs and grow the economy.
Most important is we continue to prosper , generate jobs and grow the economy.
Yap, that's most critical. It will be challenging going forward as our GDP is in a little trough at the moment. And even when our GDP is normalised, we shouldn't be expecting any headline topping growth rate again.
In the 90s, it was also rather difficult to be granted PR.
Just a few years back, it was very easy to get PR for some foreigners. (Eg. Malaysian Chinese with just three months work/residence in Singapore)
However, the benefit of getting PR in the 90s and the situation now is very different.
At that time there was not so much distinction between citizens and PR other than voting rights.
I think it would be good to go back to the mode in the 90s, where it is rather difficult to get PR but the benefits etc would be close but not on par to citizens, so tat the PRs would stay.
Many foreigners are coming to Singapore for just a few years and go to another country which welcome them better than Singapore. If we want to retain these foreigner, we need to make them feel at home. Of course, only the selected few.
tell me which other country in the world offers similar benefits to both PR and citizens? let me know so that i can consider it as an ideal destination for migration
tell me which other country in the world offers similar benefits to both PR and citizens? let me know so that i can consider it as an ideal destination for migration
In UK, foreigers have no capital gain tax
In Malaysia, foreigners can buy car without Govt tax
there are better than the local...
In UK, foreigers have no capital gain tax
In Malaysia, foreigners can buy car without Govt tax
there are better than the local...
New Zealand has equal health and education benefits for citizens and PR.
In UK, foreigers have no capital gain tax
In Malaysia, foreigners can buy car without Govt tax
there are better than the local...
they don't get healthcare and education benefits like citizens.
In UK, foreigers have no capital gain tax
There is inheritance tax though (40% above the threshold).
So make sure you are healthy or if you suddenly should leave this world, the taxman cometh. And you have to pay the UK lawyers to handle your estate there.
New Zealand has equal health and education benefits for citizens and PR.
yup, one of my target countries for migration. the only holdback is the lifestyle
yup, one of my target countries for migration. the only holdback is the lifestyle
The South Island is very nice. About the only place you can find 4 seasons at any time in one country. Its a good place to raise children and education. Lifestyle adjustment is another matter altogether.
The South Island is very nice. About the only place you can find 4 seasons at any time in one country. Its a good place to raise children and education. Lifestyle adjustment is another matter altogether.
yup, am worried i can't adjust to the pace of life there.
I think many people here are jumping the gun here. The 6.5m population is always the planning perimeter. There is really nothing new in PM Lee's comments. He is playing it safe as this is just a start of a wider conversation about our immigration policy going forward.
And I think the 67% of only 30 forum participants who agree to more immigrants might not be reflective of the mood on the ground. And who in this forum can say without a doubt that there are no political ramifications to ever increasing property prices?
I think we should just sit tight and not jump the gun.......
I think it is important to hear it from PM Lee because this is the first time the subject of the 6m population was mentioned by a key political figure after the 2011 GE. With this, it pretty much give further assurance that government has not made a U-turn on their immigration policy, they are just refining them to meet the aspirations of Singaporeans.
I think it is important to hear it from PM Lee because this is the first time the subject of the 6m population was mentioned by a key political figure after the 2011 GE. With this, it pretty much give further assurance that government has not made a U-turn on their immigration policy, they are just refining them to meet the aspirations of Singaporeans.
with more immigrants and a finite supply of land, it's CHEONG CHEONG CHEONG for property prices
more $1million HDB to come
In yr 2000, our population is 4mil
In yr 2010, our population is 5mil
Increase is 1mil in 10yrs. Among this about 245k citizen, 250k PR & 550k non-residents.
Using the above past statistics as a gauge, to increase by another 800k from 5.2mil to 6mil will take at most 8yrs. Of which 500k to 600k are SC & PR. The rest will be non-residents. Just my personal estimation.
By 2020 we should be able to hit 6mil. :2cents:
Bear in mind that organic growth from 4 mil to 6 mil and influx of FT have totally different effect on the ppty mkt.
FT are working adults in their prime age, and immediately contribute to property demand.
Organic growth would increase population by adding babies which will then contribute to ppty demand in 20 years.
Does anyone know how far south can Singapore reclaim their land before they hit Indonesia water?
with more immigrants and a finite supply of land, it's CHEONG CHEONG CHEONG for property prices
more $1million HDB to come
If we are talking about urban planning for 6 to 7m, there is actually no shortage of greenfield land, but prime land in matured estate, yes.
Does anyone know how far south can Singapore reclaim their land before they hit Indonesia water?
no need to reclaim. u go URA on the ground floor u see the map on the developed land. Actually u will see quite a no. of green patches.
u still have Kranji side the north western side , sambawang side. and central catchment side.
w/o reclaiming there are still land. We might have to integrate technology to the central catchment side on how to conserve water n nature? Maybe invide FEO come up with a super ECO project there another waterfront nature living area!.
Only thing is people complain coz its consider far? but aint all new development are like that? once infa is in place all will go GA GA and rush there.
Over I think the government plan is to distribute business to many hubs, AMK, Changi, Jurong, etc. thus reducing the dependency for all to travel to city. at the same time build up the Metro.
Only day our city metro might be like london or manhattan but a much more modern version.
IMHO I hope our government can consider a longer time line to hit the 6m mark. Perhaps 10 years or longer. Most current infrastructure projects seems to be doing catch-up for our previous population boom. How long will this catch-up phase lasts before the government start building for the new phase of population increase?
Bear in mind that organic growth from 4 mil to 6 mil and influx of FT have totally different effect on the ppty mkt.
FT are working adults in their prime age, and immediately contribute to property demand.
Organic growth would increase population by adding babies which will then contribute to ppty demand in 20 years.
Who idea is to create a sustainable society.
A permanent long term goal they should focus on is 12m population by fully utilizing all the islands around Singapore, including Pulau Tekong & Pulau Ubin, Lim Chu Kang, and Simpang.
mai lah... too crowded liao.. better don't end up like HK.. go everywhere also knock onto people..
mai lah... too crowded liao.. better don't end up like HK.. go everywhere also knock onto people..
With proper urban planning. Should be ok. Well all major successful city are like that. Look at London, Paris, Manhattan, Tokyo....
Just dont end up like chaos like KL, BKK etc..
With proper urban planning. Should be ok. Well all major successful city are like that. Look at London, Paris, Manhattan, Tokyo....
Just dont end up like chaos like KL, BKK etc..
u know i may sound silly, one of the reason why I sometime prefers a huge population is because with a bigger population SG may produce some outstanidng sportsmen.
in soccer, our lions are CMI unitl i dont even bother to follow.
In golf which I played and followed actively, our golfers are also si mei cham.
All the sports also sianz lah.
u know i may sound silly, one of the reason why I sometime prefers a huge population is because with a bigger population SG may produce some outstanidng sportsmen.
in soccer, our lions are CMI unitl i dont even bother to follow.
In golf which I played and followed actively, our golfers are also si mei cham.
All the sports also sianz lah.
Totally agree with that. Best still, with >6mil people, we will have sizeable Domestic Consumption. Businesses can then sustain just like in Hong Kong for example..This will lead to jobs with better wages and property prices can sustain or go up in tandem.
u know i may sound silly, one of the reason why I sometime prefers a huge population is because with a bigger population SG may produce some outstanidng sportsmen.
in soccer, our lions are CMI unitl i dont even bother to follow.
In golf which I played and followed actively, our golfers are also si mei cham.
All the sports also sianz lah.
Not really. sports.. if u want sports u cant beat the population in China or Africa where it makes sense to have sports as a careear. From a business perspective having a bigger population u have economic of scale.
i.e. ur local restaurant chains, R&D etc would have better access resources. Take a small population nation like Brunei. I been working there a few years back u just cant do much business that is local sustainability. Coz not enough population to substain ( only 350K). Also with that the locals are not expose to new technology or methodology. Not much company wants setup shop there. End up they have to also import everything overseas. Not just goods ,even services. They are lucky they have Oil if not they would have gone the route where the mayans gone.
So its important to have a critical mass to substain a City... go play sim city ;) hah kidding.
no need to reclaim. u go URA on the ground floor u see the map on the developed land. Actually u will see quite a no. of green patches.
u still have Kranji side the north western side , sambawang side. and central catchment side.
w/o reclaiming there are still land. We might have to integrate technology to the central catchment side on how to conserve water n nature? Maybe invide FEO come up with a super ECO project there another waterfront nature living area!.
Only thing is people complain coz its consider far? but aint all new development are like that? once infa is in place all will go GA GA and rush there.
Over I think the government plan is to distribute business to many hubs, AMK, Changi, Jurong, etc. thus reducing the dependency for all to travel to city. at the same time build up the Metro.
Only day our city metro might be like london or manhattan but a much more modern version.
You are right, I think the notion about land in Singapore is limited only applies if we intend to expand out population to say above 10m. At 6 to 6.5m, we wont have much issue on land, however government will have to upgrade move of our sewage system.
I believe for security reasons, government will not touch those catchment area at North West region until they exhausted their option on reclamation. And it will actually make commercial sense for them to do it now instead of later because cost of sands and granite will only increase of time.
I think government is now reclaiming more industrial land as this will free up some industrial land for residential and commercial purpose.
mai lah... too crowded liao.. better don't end up like HK.. go everywhere also knock onto people..
i also support this ..its already crowded now . mrt and other facilities also nvr fixed and upgrade. I also know how to run a gov
they also smart build many condos and get ppl like us suck in and hold a knife on our neck and say "ai 6 mil population boh" ?
otherwise who is gonna pay ur installment...
i also support this ..its already crowded now . mrt and other facilities also nvr fixed and upgrade. I also know how to run a gov
they also smart build many condos and get ppl like us suck in and hold a knife on our neck and say "ai 6 mil population boh" ?
otherwise who is gonna pay ur installment...
Quantity aside, the quality of immigrants is also important for us.
i also support this ..its already crowded now . mrt and other facilities also nvr fixed and upgrade. I also know how to run a gov
they also smart build many condos and get ppl like us suck in and hold a knife on our neck and say "ai 6 mil population boh" ?
otherwise who is gonna pay ur installment...
Well no 1 ask u to buy the condo mah? Anyway Condo are private developers not Garmen run. And its supply demand. PPle want to buy they will sell. Unless u want garmen to shoot the buyers. one quick way to cull the population any buying interest. ( tock cock ). Anyway infra take time. Question is build 1st then wait for growth or wait for growth 1st then build. They took the latter option so bare the grunt of the unhappiness. But I feel things are changing give it some time we will look much better. Don't be myopic abt it. look at the broader picture.
Quantity aside, the quality of immigrants is also important for us.
We now focus on Quality liao mah.. 4K min....but that have another set of challenge.. inflation. so nothing is perfect.
From these posts, most are PAP supporters.
From these posts, most are PAP supporters.
I support growth, prosperity and sustainability. Which party I dont care.
minority seems to favour a larger population? Has he just bought an overpriced OCR property?
Anyway, these are my thoughts:
It is true that Localite mentioned that alot of these FTs are working adults in their prime, however, these FTs are of a different league from the expats we know in the 90s and prior. Nowadays most of these FTs are account clerks from Malaysia, customer service staff from Phillipines, technicians from Myanmar, engineers from China and IT staffs from India. These people from poorer countries mostly aren't interested in purchasing your 1-2m condo, and if given a choice, will rather spend money to purchase a HDB from YCK, woodlands, Sembawang. Even those with money will rather spend it on purchasing land in their own countries. This explains why we see the greatest growth in OCR low price housin now, and rentals gaps between HDB an condo are sooooo small.
People who buy condo for investment are a totally different group of investors from a different market.
minority seems to favour a larger population? Has he just bought an overpriced OCR property?
Anyway, these are my thoughts:
It is true that Localite mentioned that alot of these FTs are working adults in their prime, however, these FTs are of a different league from the expats we know in the 90s and prior. Nowadays most of these FTs are account clerks from Malaysia, customer service staff from Phillipines, technicians from Myanmar, engineers from China and IT staffs from India. These people from poorer countries mostly aren't interested in purchasing your 1-2m condo, and if given a choice, will rather spend money to purchase a HDB from YCK, woodlands, Sembawang. Even those with money will rather spend it on purchasing land in their own countries. This explains why we see the greatest growth in OCR low price housin now, and rentals gaps between HDB an condo are sooooo small.
People who buy condo for investment are a totally different group of investors from a different market.
These FT will buy flats so that the owners can upgrade mah..:cheers1:
minority seems to favour a larger population? Has he just bought an overpriced OCR property?
Anyway, these are my thoughts:
It is true that Localite mentioned that alot of these FTs are working adults in their prime, however, these FTs are of a different league from the expats we know in the 90s and prior. Nowadays most of these FTs are account clerks from Malaysia, customer service staff from Phillipines, technicians from Myanmar, engineers from China and IT staffs from India. These people from poorer countries mostly aren't interested in purchasing your 1-2m condo, and if given a choice, will rather spend money to purchase a HDB from YCK, woodlands, Sembawang. Even those with money will rather spend it on purchasing land in their own countries. This explains why we see the greatest growth in OCR low price housin now, and rentals gaps between HDB an condo are sooooo small.
People who buy condo for investment are a totally different group of investors from a different market.
I dont like OCR.... anyway i find OCR are peakish these days but I already have a OCR for long time for own stay. But we cannot say the price are high becoz of pure population growth. need to take into account QE3. Actually asia as a whole have gone through a inflation phase. I was working in China, Thailand, Malaysia , Vietnam they are all having inflation woos. some are worst than the other. Like Vietnam where the currency and government is weak resulting in a deficit. their inflation is in the double digit. No new business there and trade deficit creating a problem for them. Plus weak reserve so they cant sure domestic consumption or build up to jump start the economy.
Have to cosnider the fact that US is exporting their problem causing inflation. The recent US FED QE3 exercise follow by ECB bond buying and JAPN BOJ exercise and a small BOND buying exercise from LONDON.
Question next is will China do the same. near the end of the year. We are in a new era.. so no doubt we will feel the inflation.
Key problem in next 12 mths will be inflation will come back to knock on our doors.
Any YEs I favour a larger population across all sectors that drive business growth. We can complain all abt low quality FT but there are some jobs that u cannot find a singaporean to do. now we raise the bar. End up we have to pay more.. thus reflecting in the infation of prices across the board. The same job is still going to be done by a FT. but now with more Pay. adding pressure to the business to pass the cost onwards.
I know that coz I work with folks in the svc industry.. all have labour problem. and with labour problem they cannot expand the biz. Anyway all this biz will still benift singapore. i.e. TAX, Rental, mgr jobs , suppliers , supply chain etc.
minority seems to favour a larger population? Has he just bought an overpriced OCR property?
Anyway, these are my thoughts:
It is true that Localite mentioned that alot of these FTs are working adults in their prime, however, these FTs are of a different league from the expats we know in the 90s and prior. Nowadays most of these FTs are account clerks from Malaysia, customer service staff from Phillipines, technicians from Myanmar, engineers from China and IT staffs from India. These people from poorer countries mostly aren't interested in purchasing your 1-2m condo, and if given a choice, will rather spend money to purchase a HDB from YCK, woodlands, Sembawang. Even those with money will rather spend it on purchasing land in their own countries. This explains why we see the greatest growth in OCR low price housin now, and rentals gaps between HDB an condo are sooooo small.
People who buy condo for investment are a totally different group of investors from a different market.
BTW to put things in perspective. go check out sqfoot website.. all this OCR are local SGP we lapping it up. not so much foreigners or PR. We being asian simply luv proeprty! Its in our DNA.
So Question I have. Curious. Do folks here perefer to live in place that is slow n boring? or exciting city like Manhattan, San Francisco, Tokyo , London etc? I am not saying we are there but defiantly we are getting there.
Or u guys want Brunei lots of jungle nothing to do after 6pm and sleep with chickada? And can buy plots or land but nothing much to do?
I am a city person so definitely I luv the excitement of a city.
These FT will buy flats so that the owners can upgrade mah..:cheers1:
My thought is most people are not happy that PR buys HDB. But they buy they also benefit the existing singapore who want to upgrade? With that u basically also trap the $ the PR makes to retain in the country for the duration of the stay.
Then the argument comes where if the PR leaves and dont take up citizenship they cashes out and make $ from locals. well in time where they leaves could means singapore no more attractive? means economy might be down? the PR might make a lost sell in a down cycle then? Could it also means SGP person get to buy back at lower price? While here they also take loan from banks which inturn keep the $ in the Singapore system.
Its a double age sword. Like ying n yang. U push u also pull u cannot be only party win and on one else see benefit. IF Win Win both party benefit thats good.!
Ideally the growth appreciation for HDB dont out strip inflation no.s. And being Singaporean have the advantage of buying from HDB direct. ( yes some expcetions , Singles , 2nd timers , Divorcees ) Not something HDB cannot adjust the system.
Say the guy in shin fu sold 1.2M if they are orginal owners in their retirement age this is a good retirement fund if they never save much. Question where to stay next? well kids place or the 80K government 30yr studio. or buy a 3beder HDB and retire with $ cash. U cannot eat the brick house when u are old n no saving. And also planning for ones retirement lies on one's own shoulder.
phantom_opera
24-09-12, 17:06
if not because of PAP took in 300k SPRs and 100k citizens in the past few years, HDB resale price will be still at 350-400psf and OCR condo price will be still at 700-800psf
but with new immigrants here comes inflation :tsk-tsk: but since the whole world is printing ... same same ...
if not because of PAP took in 300k SPRs and 100k citizens in the past few years, HDB resale price will be still at 350-400psf and OCR condo price will be still at 700-800psf
but with new immigrants here comes inflation :tsk-tsk:
But also then we under build the HDB but..
Then USD was 1.8 - 1.9 to SGD too. pound 2.3 , Euro 2.4 too...
Also SGP buyers too mah? I have so many sgp friends own multiple units too. I am sure many forumers here too. SGP pple also buy.
JB or KL prices then?
Have to blame institution investors too. They buy bulks in the 2005 period. but with 40% ABSD thats kinda gone.
Also the property agents? they are massive flipping by the agents themselves too then. But cannot blame them they are Singaporean too right? :ashamed1:
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