View Full Version : Are our CCR over priced? Compare NY to Singapore
I cant help wondering if we are are a run away price currently. lets put some bench mark to this.
The Big Apple. Manhattan Island Wallstreet.
https://donna-meyer.squarespace.com/55-wall-360
Works out to be SGD $1350psf
Comparing our One On Shenton. Similar size 1561sqf @ SGD$2000psf
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/11117849/for-sale-one-shenton
WallStreert Under price or Shenton over price. U decide.
I am more incline on the Wallstreet. At least there was 2 movies made abt it!. Shenton way u have wat? hmmm....
Even Studio on Manhattan price are $600K put our MM to shame in CBD!!!
https://donna-meyer.squarespace.com/310-east-23rd-12d
lets also compare NY Central park view. which is highly priced.
https://donna-meyer.squarespace.com/200-chambers-25e
works out to be $2200psf SGD.
The Sail @ marina bay. Cheapest PSF and closest to the size 1313sqf. @2200psf
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/11121276/for-sale-the-sail-marina-bay
Central park or marina bay? Which u think more value?
phantom_opera
04-09-12, 12:49
Market is always right .. in this case then Hong Kong high end is crazy price already
Market is always right .. in this case then Hong Kong high end is crazy price already
well drawing some additional comparison Manhattan is a island. SGP also a island.
phantom_opera
04-09-12, 13:00
well drawing some additional comparison Manhattan is a island. SGP also a island.
Hong Kong also island brother
We need somebody who has experience in investing internationally to comment, it may look attractive on paper but what is killing is the TAX
Hong Kong also island brother
We need somebody who has experience in investing internationally to comment, it may look attractive on paper but what is killing is the TAX
Yes tats true. US Capital gain tax is daunting.. also the maintenance cost. but what I was comparing is SGP , HK, NY. which would u pick? I have yet look at london. But the last I look London is not is comparable with NY.
And under $2M now in london no capital gain tax. London is more investor friendly IMHO. But I have to say NY feels swankier..
giving the delta with sgp.. unless price is on par if not NY factoring in the maintenance cost could end up cheaper. if u take say a 10yr ROI
Hong Kong also island brother
We need somebody who has experience in investing internationally to comment, it may look attractive on paper but what is killing is the TAX
If you compare HK and SGP. I think SGP is better.. air quality. urban planning etc.
phantom_opera
04-09-12, 13:10
The CCR supporters in this forum will not be very happy to hear that we are so overpriced relative to NYC
:rolleyes:
You might have a point, now 1.5m you can hardly find any brand new decent freehold 2br CCR say around 1000sqft :(
we are singapore singapore...we will stand together with the..KIASU--ROAR:D.....we have to be the best the highest...in the world...we are singaporeans....:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
we are singapore singapore...we will stand together with the..KIASU--ROAR:D.....we have to be the best the highest...in the world...we are singaporeans....:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
hah hah Roar all we want we are a red dot. I rather look at sustainability. and in reality we should not be more than NYC, London. Once we exceed we are actually over priced. Comparing the GDP generated from those city.
from a pure international investor stand pt might be more worth it to cash out sgp and park back in US or london.. ( assuming the tax is negated with the higher sgp prices.)
Yes ,singapore is more expensive than New York
see below ranking
http://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings_current.jsp
have to just compare Top 10 financial centres/cities
The CCR supporters in this forum will not be very happy to hear that we are so overpriced relative to NYC
:rolleyes:
You might have a point, now 1.5m you can hardly find any brand new decent freehold 2br CCR say around 1000sqft :(
Well I am a CCR person too. but reality is reality. dont kid ourself right.
I think warrant further looking into this. I might go some viewing when in NY next couple of mth. I will report back :p
proud owner
04-09-12, 14:40
Yes ,singapore is more expensive than New York
see below ranking
http://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings_current.jsp
have to just compare Top 10 financial centres/cities
I live in NY manhattan. I can tell you there's more to offer here than Singapore. Sing is way to expensive now. In all aspects.
I live in NY manhattan. I can tell you there's more to offer here than Singapore. Sing is way to expensive now. In all aspects.
Base on the current asking price. I really do agree...... Also the internal furnishing quality in US is much better and complete... than the barebone u get here for new build. the developers here margin are really high.
Regulators
04-09-12, 14:51
NY is much bigger and the dynamics of the population in each of the states in america can change over time due to work, immigration and a myriad of reasons. In singapore, no matter how people shift around the island, it is within the limited space of about 6xx sqkm, making it a safer bet in terms of investment.
I live in NY manhattan. I can tell you there's more to offer here than Singapore. Sing is way to expensive now. In all aspects.
NY is much bigger and the dynamics of the population in each of the states in america can change over time due to work, immigration and a myriad of reasons. In singapore, no matter how people shift around the island, it is within the limited space of about 6xx sqkm, making it a safer bet in terms of investment.
Manhattan New York 1,601,948 population 23sqmiles 59sqkm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan
Singapore Population: 5,183,700 (2011) Area: 271.8 sq miles (704 kmē)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore
Manhattan size is like our 9,10,11 district.
Singapore is 11.2 times bigger than Manhattan.. so if we take the population density of manhattan then we would have a population of 19M.
(I know that everyone will think that is a nightmare.)
anyway some of our OCR is price at Wallstreet price. so aint it fair to consider whole singapore as a 11.2X version of Manhattan then?
Singapore is bigger and currently less densely populated than manhattan and with more space to move ard. So cant be more ex than Manhattan. ( not forgetting the GDP generated there on wallstreet verse sgp). Anyway what I am saying is our OCR n CCR are currently likely over priced currently.
Regulators
04-09-12, 16:14
I was saying new york, not just manhattan. There is a lot of interstate movement, one moment people living in ny may move to florida or those staying in texas may move to ny for whatever reasons. This is what I mean by changing population dynamics n this could affect prices significantly in big countries. An example would be malaysia, where ppl are seeking to live in new townships n moving out of kl.
Manhattan New York 1,601,948 population 23sqmiles 59sqkm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan
Singapore Population: 5,183,700 (2011) Area: 271.8 sq miles (704 kmē)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore
Manhattan size is like our 9,10,11 district.
Singapore is 11.2 times bigger than Manhattan.. so if we take the population density of manhattan then we would have a population of 19M.
(I know that everyone will think that is a nightmare.)
anyway some of our OCR is price at Wallstreet price. so aint it fair to consider whole singapore as a 11.2X of Manhattan then?
Singapore is bigger and currently less densely populated than manhattan and with more space to move ard. So cant be more ex than Manhattan. ( not forgetting the GDP generated there on wallstreet verse sgp). Anyway what I am saying is our OCR n CCR are currently likely over priced currently.
Anyone knows what it means by
Monthly Charges: Maintenance $2,839 / Taxes $855
on the ad?
If you invest $1M in USA, you can get a green card under the investor category - no waiting. So along with a Central Park view and Manhattan address your purchase gets you green card as well - value for money or not?
hah hah Roar all we want we are a red dot. I rather look at sustainability. and in reality we should not be more than NYC, London. Once we exceed we are actually over priced. Comparing the GDP generated from those city.
from a pure international investor stand pt might be more worth it to cash out sgp and park back in US or london.. ( assuming the tax is negated with the higher sgp prices.)
Agreed. If we are about on par with the world financial center.. then we shouldnt chase the local ppty anymore.
I was saying new york, not just manhattan. There is a lot of interstate movement, one moment people living in ny may move to florida or those staying in texas may move to ny for whatever reasons. This is what I mean by changing population dynamics n this could affect prices significantly in big countries. An example would be malaysia, where ppl are seeking to live in new townships n moving out of kl.
True but provided the township prices are same as KL? my pt is OCR is priced at wallstreet price. i.e. our sky habitat , our east coast area.
I cant say the townships are on par.
Thus I compare Manhattan with 9,10,11. The fact is some of the OCR is price same as the Manhattan pricing which is equal and better than our CCR. we have a issue here.
Agreed. If we are about on par with the world financial center.. then we shouldnt chase the local ppty anymore.
can only say rush in with ur eyes wide...... not wide shut.
I live in NY manhattan. I can tell you there's more to offer here than Singapore. Sing is way to expensive now. In all aspects.
bet you cant get GOOD CHINESE rojak there...:p
had a longggg discussion with a `guru' friend yesterday about going in now.
and he said cannot directly compare developments. according to him, eg prices in shenton and marina are in different ranges, although nearby. he has also come across projects in adjacent streets with vastly different prices, sometimes cannot explain why.
so... it is difficult to directly compare across the globe, though i understand what minority is trying to bring across... are we already overpriced? maybe with qe3, they may rise further to match us?! or we go even higher for inexplicable reasons again?
bet you cant get GOOD CHINESE rojak there...:p
u cant get good ang mor ROJAK here too...
had a longggg discussion with a `guru' friend yesterday about going in now.
and he said cannot directly compare developments. according to him, eg prices in shenton and marina are in different ranges, although nearby. he has also come across projects in adjacent streets with vastly different prices, sometimes cannot explain why.
so... it is difficult to directly compare across the globe, though i understand what minority is trying to bring across... are we already overpriced? maybe with qe3, they may rise further to match us?! or we go even higher for inexplicable reasons again?
so depending on QE3 then question when all the froth are gone.. people go back to fundamental are u holding on to a over price piece of brick or u already passed it on?
buying house for investment like all investment have a perceived value. so most importantly understand the fundamental to see if the perceive value is real. Don't kid ourself.
had a longggg discussion with a `guru' friend yesterday about going in now.
and he said cannot directly compare developments. according to him, eg prices in shenton and marina are in different ranges, although nearby. he has also come across projects in adjacent streets with vastly different prices, sometimes cannot explain why.
so... it is difficult to directly compare across the globe, though i understand what minority is trying to bring across... are we already overpriced? maybe with qe3, they may rise further to match us?! or we go even higher for inexplicable reasons again?
He is right, one example is one shenton. The rental [$psf/mth] there is really CMI to the max yet the psf pricing is almost on par. Clift has the highest rental [$psf/mth] yet the psf pricing is not as insane as the condos in Sail, MBR...
if you have been to NY you will know that Manhattan is extreme huge as compare to the Singapore CBD, so it will be difficult to compare apple to apple as certain street in Manhattan can be extremely costly while others not
If you compared the most expensive apartment in NY vs Singapore, I am believe Singapore will still be lagging behind.
if you have been to NY you will know that Manhattan is extreme huge as compare to the Singapore CBD, so it will be difficult to compare apple to apple as certain street in Manhattan can be extremely costly while others not
If you compared the most expensive apartment in NY vs Singapore, I am believe Singapore will still be lagging behind.
True thus. Did mention I compare manhattan to our 9,10,11.
I pick a unit on wall street n pick one shenton as example. Didn't pick mbfc or mbr etc or the most ex on wall street.
My comparison is for that same amount u spend in sgp on our "wall street" can u get anything in NY wall street. N which is better value?
if you have been to NY you will know that Manhattan is extreme huge as compare to the Singapore CBD, so it will be difficult to compare apple to apple as certain street in Manhattan can be extremely costly while others not
If you compared the most expensive apartment in NY vs Singapore, I am believe Singapore will still be lagging behind.
Also my pt. is OCR priced like wallstreet? Hmmm
Yes manhattan is bigger also more happening. So how can we be more ex when we compare the base line? Ie wall street? Not north or south right.
You all missing the whole point.... you can ask which banker wants to work in wall street now... all want to work in HK and Singapore because the deals + bonus is here
You all missing the whole point.... you can ask which banker wants to work in wall street now... all want to work in HK and Singapore because the deals + bonus is here
Facebook in US... Manchester utd in US... Baidu in US... many many in US..
What deals?
Facebook in US... Manchester utd in US... Baidu in US... many many in US..
What deals?
you are only looking at public market IPO deals - there are other follow ons + takeovers and a lot deals of non-market deals - such as private M&As in the region
remember this region has seen inflow of investment funds esp in resources sector etc
US/UK given increased regulations / general public dissatisfaction to IBs has seen caps in bonuses + poor deal flow
if u are in the banking industry then you will know the fact that bankers moving from West to East
You all missing the whole point.... you can ask which banker wants to work in wall street now... all want to work in HK and Singapore because the deals + bonus is here
you are right. there are actually more and more brainy people from Europe and USA coming to Singapore because of opportunity and stability.
The difference in manhatten pricesvand here can be attributed to the estate taxes or capital gains taxes. Since the taxes are a certainty, might as well attributed the cost upfront when you make the purchase.
you are right. there are actually more and more brainy people from Europe and USA coming to Singapore because of opportunity and stability.
Its all becoz for now to get to Asia sgp acts as a gateway. Give it some time when China is ready we wont have that advantage.
Dont kid purself sgp shenton better than wall street? Any one read the news? Credit swiss moving people out of sgp due to high cost.
My take is yes us in trouble. But its has great potential when it bounce back. From investors pt of view no point jump into Singapore if its highwr than wallstreet. Must well invest there to prepre for growth. Wats. The upaide here?
Cant. be shenton worth 100% more in future to wall street.
Go to squarefoot look at all the purchase ownership all priperty large mahority are sgp own. All the cry that foreginers push up the price? More like we are drinking our own coolade.
Quwstion is who can we pass the ball to next? Or u want to be thw one left holding the brick when the tide turns n return to the fundmentals?
Its all becoz for now to get to Asia sgp acts as a gateway. Give it some time when China is ready we wont have that advantage.
Dont kid purself sgp shenton better than wall street? Any one read the news? Credit swiss moving people out of sgp due to high cost.
My take is yes us in trouble. But its has great potential when it bounce back. From investors pt of view no point jump into Singapore if its highwr than wallstreet. Must well invest there to prepre for growth. Wats. The upaide here?
Cant. be shenton worth 100% more in future to wall street.
Go to squarefoot look at all the purchase ownership all priperty large mahority are sgp own. All the cry that foreginers push up the price? More like we are drinking our own coolade.
Quwstion is who can we pass the ball to next? Or u want to be thw one left holding the brick when the tide turns n return to the fundmentals?
as long as rental demand is healthy, Singaporeans will always buy because we all want to be landlord.
as long as rental demand is healthy, Singaporeans will always buy because we all want to be landlord.
Thats is good. What is the yield they would consider then? or just rushing in with the crowd but scream foreigners driving up the price ? ;)
what I am saying is price has peak. my view is now to buy to be land lord and hope for capital gain is risky. limited upside and limited rental yield.
when everyone want to be landlord could end up having many competition and cut throat prices among landlord. Those with weak hands might not be able to stomach it.
From foreigner investor pt. SGP prop is not attractive they have much more choice compared to few years back at the current sgp prices.
Then blame games starts again.. :cheers4:
as long as rental demand is healthy, Singaporeans will always buy because we all want to be landlord.
Well Rental demand can be healthy and suddenly turn unhealthy.. then last batch of buyers will be holding on to some real expensive bricks.
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