HIGH END HOME RENTALS ON THE DECLINE

[Regulators]

This is why I have always stood by the belief of never putting all my eggs in one basket. As I had raised the point with teddy before one over year back that it is always better to split up a large sum of money to buy several condos for easy rental than buying one expensive condo to rent out at a huge sum. I already saw CCR rentals declining long ago, which was also why I bought a small CCR two bedder in a modest location and not throw all my money in one expensive property in the prime district.

By Romesh Navaratnarajah:

Rents of newly completed high-end homes could decline further upon the completion of over 4,000 units in 2H2012.

Based on CBRE data, at least 20 developments with 4,285 units are set for completion in the second half of 2012. Of this figure, around half are located in the central business district (CBD) and in prime districts 9, 10 and 11. These include projects such as Marina Bay Suites, Boulevard Vue, Volari and Skyline 360.

According to the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), non-landed home rentals in the city centre slipped by 0.1 percent in Q2.

Moreover, rents of high-end non-landed homes analysed by Savills saw a four-month consecutive drop. Average monthly rents fell to S$5.03 psf per month, down three percent quarter-on-quarter or eight percent year-on-year.

Several experts noted that while the upcoming completion of units could put pressure on the rental market, newly completed projects will still find tenants as long as Singapore remains a cost-competitive option for companies. However, landlords should be prepared to accept lower rents.

Tan Kok Keong, Head of Research and Consultancy at OrangeTee, added that vacancy rates for homes within the city centre have been moving up, from 7.8 percent in Q1 to 8.2 percent in Q2.

[phantom_opera]

No of rich bankers able to rent prime fast declining

[hyenergix]

The decline and momentum look serious. I think tenants are shifting to city fringes after their housing allowances are cut. I begin to see more Ang Mo on public buses too.

[CondoWE]

The decline and momentum look serious. I think tenants are shifting to city fringes after their housing allowances are cut. I begin to see more Ang Mo on public buses too.

I saw ang mo lady rented my neighbor's 4 room flat..:D Btw, she has 2 Sexy and beautiful daughters ... :simmering:

One day must find opportunity to make friend with them....... :hornybastard:

[gn108]

More opportunity for FT integration with the LT.


I saw ang mo lady rented my neighbor's 4 room flat..:D Btw, she has 2 Sexy and beautiful daughters ... :simmering:

One day must find opportunity to make friend with them....... :hornybastard:

[carbuncle]

yes this is the type of diversity and integration we welcome lol

[hopeful]

More opportunity for FT integration with the LT.

wah, you forget about local singaporean women already?
such a high percentage still unmarried.

unfair, denigrate local girl who goes with angmo as SPGs.
local boy who goes with angmo known as wat?

[samuelk]

wah, you forget about local singaporean women already?
such a high percentage still unmarried.

unfair, denigrate local girl who goes with angmo as SPGs.
local boy who goes with angmo known as wat?
there are so many angony aunt story of happily married expat who became expat gone wild n deviorce their wife when they came to singapore.

[hopeful]

there are so many angony aunt story of happily married expat who became expat gone wild n deviorce their wife when they came to singapore.

which angmo guy wouldnt want a submissive asian wife? :)
hopefully local gals can tie down these expats and not the other way round, expats export out local gals.

[Regulators]

a lot of expats have only limited housing allowance so renting a big unit in town makes little sense. The small units in the cbd will continue to thrive coz the extra premium for that added convenience isn't much. With singapore being so small, paying so much more to rent big units for that little more convenience in getting to work in town may only appeal to some expats with big housing allowances. I think expats are looking more towards lifestyle when they rent in singapore, rather than being near town, that is why east coast n bukit timah will never go out of fashion.

[phantom_opera]

Last time JP morgan, Stan Chart, Lehman, Bear Stern, Citi, BoA, Morgan Stanley, RBS, BCS, HSBC & GS all making obscene amount of money either through Libor rigging, money laundering, Iran secret deals, subprime cheat, derivatives, betting against customers ... everyone in investment/trading is guaranteed 6k expat housing allowance and 6 months to 1 year bonus

Now .... one by one shot down by regulators ... all out of jobs have to receive lower pay package

Serve them right ... repent in hell lah :hell-hath-no-fury:

[amk]

@regulators: that is because all your "basket" is only sufficient for one decent CCR unit, whereas teddy and others can have multiple decent CCR units in diff areas ( for example you mentioned bt timah) to balance the portfolio.

Nb of high paying expats in my opinion never changed. Just the supply changed. Therefore you have to see wheich project.

At this level of investment ppl have a lot more options for a mere 200k looking for yield. CCR assets are for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. There arer plenty of other yielding assets to play. I personally do not invest OCR pties for yield ( I have OCR exposures)

[Wild Falcon]

What basket? Its not as if one CCR property can buy that 5 OCR property. The differential is only like 30%? So an OCR/RCR freehold resale could be say $1000psf-$1200psf, vs $1400-$1500psf in Novena or Holland V ($1400)? And not forgetting many CCR properties (esp CBD) are getting very small.

Not only CCR property can be for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. Open up your investments horizon, not within a limited boundary in SG(or within 1km of school). Returns is the most important criteria. No matter how rich some of you claim to be (its just forum persona right? Empty vessels make the loudest noise esp in a forum. Frankly if one needs to move within 1km of certain schools to get their child in, u know that person can't be doing too well with not much connections or pedigree), you still want to make the best investment yielding the best returns. Its not about money any more, its about winning and making the right choices.

[Wild Falcon]

And even the rental differential is quite marginal. One can get a 3 bedder in town for only like $5500? And a 3 bedder in ulu Jurong West say Lakeshore can be $4500? It's not as if one CCR rents gives you a basket of 5 OCR. And property is discrete. You cannot buy half a property. And the upfront savings for 20% upfront by buying a suburban property can't even get a decent car. Part of the migration of expats (or locals) to more suburban areas could be lifestyle choices as well. Its just like more seasoned travellers like to live like the locals and go beyond the typical shopping malls in Orchard Road or Sentosa or colonial Botanical Gardens etc.

[amk]

WF, just because you dun have the capacity, dun naively assume others dun.
Please grow up, accept the fact that there are people doing better than you.
Or at least, learn to respect that there can have different opinions than yours.

5 of regent heights 700k is 3.5m, about the size of a decent unit in CCR. Why are you even doubting this ?

And remember you still owe me an apology. I hope by now you have learned the difference between median and mean. Ability to interprete data correctly is the 1st step to have a constructive discussion.

[amk]

See, that's the limit of your imagination.
Your mind is so narrowly tied up on yield, you actually thought I was talking about getting 5 times rent :cool:

[teddybear]

Lifestyle? Isn't living in and beside Orchard, 1 of the world's longest and most beautiful shopping street, a high lifestyle? :p
Just that Singapore seems to be attracting the "lesser" (fake) "expats", the middle-income ones that compete with jobs of the middle income PMETs. No wonder so many complaints!
We need more high-income expats and not the fake expats! :doh:

quote=Regulators]a lot of expats have only limited housing allowance so renting a big unit in town makes little sense. The small units in the cbd will continue to thrive coz the extra premium for that added convenience isn't much. With singapore being so small, paying so much more to rent big units for that little more convenience in getting to work in town may only appeal to some expats with big housing allowances. I think expats are looking more towards lifestyle when they rent in singapore, rather than being near town, that is why east coast n bukit timah will never go out of fashion.[/quote]

[teddybear]

Wow! You just slapped Jim Rogers in his face! He moved within 1km of Nanyang and still need to do parent volunteer to get her daughter into there! :banghead:


What basket? Its not as if one CCR property can buy that 5 OCR property. The differential is only like 30%? So an OCR/RCR freehold resale could be say $1000psf-$1200psf, vs $1400-$1500psf in Novena or Holland V ($1400)? And not forgetting many CCR properties (esp CBD) are getting very small.

Not only CCR property can be for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. Open up your investments horizon, not within a limited boundary in SG(or within 1km of school). Returns is the most important criteria. No matter how rich some of you claim to be (its just forum persona right? Empty vessels make the loudest noise esp in a forum. Frankly if one needs to move within 1km of certain schools to get their child in, u know that person can't be doing too well with not much connections or pedigree), you still want to make the best investment yielding the best returns. Its not about money any more, its about winning and making the right choices.

[Regulators]

It is not about whether my basket can buy one or two decent ccr properties, it is the investment concept behind what I buy that matters most, not affordability issue. I have argued this with teddy at length before and no offence to him, ocr has proven to be the winner since the last argument. I prove my words with action and took the dive into buying regent heights based on rental yield analysis and I was right, prices have crept up to more than $900k in just one over year simply becoz the price supports the rental for the area. I was like teddy once, only believing that ccr is the way to invest, but I was brave enough to try out new investment strategies. Investment is all about maximising returns, not about what one can or cannot afford to buy. Btw teddy is probably old enough to be my father so he should probably be more well off than me.
@regulators: that is because all your "basket" is only sufficient for one decent CCR unit, whereas teddy and others can have multiple decent CCR units in diff areas ( for example you mentioned bt timah) to balance the portfolio.

Nb of high paying expats in my opinion never changed. Just the supply changed. Therefore you have to see wheich project.

At this level of investment ppl have a lot more options for a mere 200k looking for yield. CCR assets are for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. There arer plenty of other yielding assets to play. I personally do not invest OCR pties for yield ( I have OCR exposures)

[Wild Falcon]

I used the word AVERAGE.

And average is measure of central tendency which includes both median and mean. Goodness. In fact, I was the one who taught you this. And please, can find property within 1km of school or not? Haha. Can get your child into elite school that you have been deprived all your life or not? Reminds me of yowetan.

And since when only CCR property can have capital appreciation??? Since when? Just read your nonsense above.

I've nothing against wanting to move house to 1km within whatever school as your main criteria. But because that is your main criteria, your investment philosophy is flawed. You will always reverse rationalise. I.e. because u need to buy an particular property to give you child a chance of something u have denied, you will rationalise it is the best investment.

$3.5m for the same size? Must compare same size lah. 700k was his past investment value u know? $700k for 1000sqft only lah. 1000sqft for $3.5m in CCR resale 15 years old 99LH property? $3.5k psf for a 10 year old CCR property 99LH? $3.5kpsf? I know u want to say your property very ex but seriously must keep other things constant lah.


WF, just because you dun have the capacity, dun naively assume others dun.
Please grow up, accept the fact that there are people doing better than you.
Or at least, learn to respect that there can have different opinions than yours.

5 of regent heights 700k is 3.5m, about the size of a decent unit in CCR. Why are you even doubting this ?

And remember you still owe me an apology. I hope by now you have learned the difference between median and mean. Ability to interprete data correctly is the 1st step to have a constructive discussion.

[Regulators]

I will rather cater to these so called mid range expats (your fake expats) which number by the thousands compared to those high end ones that turn up once in a long while. To me expats are expats, no fake or real, as long as I can make money from them, they are gd expats. When I mentioned lifestyle, we are looking beyond shopping streets which wa s why used east coast n bukit timah as examples. If expats come from more vibrant cities like ny n london, who gives two hoots about orchard?
Lifestyle? Isn't living in and beside Orchard, 1 of the world's longest and most beautiful shopping street, a high lifestyle? :p
Just that Singapore seems to be attracting the "lesser" (fake) "expats", the middle-income ones that compete with jobs of the middle income PMETs. No wonder so many complaints!
We need more high-income expats and not the fake expats! :doh:

quote=Regulators]a lot of expats have only limited housing allowance so renting a big unit in town makes little sense. The small units in the cbd will continue to thrive coz the extra premium for that added convenience isn't much. With singapore being so small, paying so much more to rent big units for that little more convenience in getting to work in town may only appeal to some expats with big housing allowances. I think expats are looking more towards lifestyle when they rent in singapore, rather than being near town, that is why east coast n bukit timah will never go out of fashion.[/QUOTE]

[Wild Falcon]

I think lifestyle choices have changed becos many international schools have moved and spread out into the suburbs as well. The big budget expats tend to be the ones who bring their entire family along and put their children up in international schools. So you have Canadian international School in Jurong West and Upper Bukit Timah, Australian School and French in Lorong Chuan and Serangoon, American School in Woodlands, UWC - Dover, AMK, Tampines, etc. So expats now exposed to different parts of SG...

[Wild Falcon]

And I hope discussion can be more productive. Obviously convergence has happened. Face it, like it or not. And rentals in CCR as reported by this article is weakening. Constructive discussion would be why this trend is happening and what would reverse the trend. An irresponsible statement is something that position yourself as so much "richer" or what I called "posturing" - trying to indirectly show your wealth by saying "because you can't afford thats why u buy RCR/OCR". One CCR property can buy a basket of your RCR/OCR when in reality keeping everything else contstant other than location, it is not. The ratio is only 1:1.3 which is not exactly material. I know the need to drop hints and posture about your financial well-being for some individuals (and usually these are the ones not very well-off from my experience) but would appreciate if discussion could center more around the observation around the article. And general statements like "CCR is for capital appreciation" as if nothing else in this world can appreciate in value does not add any value to any discussion.

At least teddybear is candid in admitting the expats are a different breed compared to the past :)

[phantom_opera]

In the 1990's and prior to Lehman crisis, it is quite obvious CCR capital appreciation is the way to go ... in last few years due to shortage of HDB, OCR near MRT is the way to go

However, with the world continues to de-leverage at least for next 10y, would CCR able to give insane return on capital again??

Let's wait and see.

[ysyap]

I saw ang mo lady rented my neighbor's 4 room flat..:D Btw, she has 2 Sexy and beautiful daughters ... :simmering:

One day must find opportunity to make friend with them....... :hornybastard:You cook curry and bring over to their house to share share lah... kampung spirit man... ;)

[Regulators]

Convergence is inevitable the way I see it n it has not fully converged yet with so many island wide developments in the pipeline. I always believe that pty investment is like a business, using the analogy of a hawker n a restaurateur, the former could be doing much better than the latter even though a restaurant looks more glamorous. Hawker stalls may be not at classy as restaurants, but at least the crowd is guaranteed, a restaurant may look nice but have no crowd. This analogy can be used on the rental market for high end ccr n ocr pty.
And I hope discussion can be more productive. Obviously convergence has happened. Face it, like it or not. And rentals in CCR as reported by this article is weakening. Constructive discussion would be why this trend is happening and what would reverse the trend. An irresponsible statement is something that position yourself as so much "richer" or what I called "posturing" - trying to indirectly show your wealth by saying "because you can't afford thats why u buy RCR/OCR". One CCR property can buy a basket of your RCR/OCR when in reality keeping everything else contstant other than location, it is not. The ratio is only 1:1.3 which is not exactly material. I know the need to drop hints and posture about your financial well-being for some individuals (and usually these are the ones not very well-off from my experience) but would appreciate if discussion could center more around the observation around the article. And general statements like "CCR is for capital appreciation" as if nothing else in this world can appreciate in value does not add any value to any discussion.

At least teddybear is candid in admitting the expats are a different breed compared to the past :)

[phantom_opera]

if you buy in 2009, doesn't matter CCR or OCR ... capital appreciation will be good .... timing & selection of project is everything ...

MPR

2011-12-16 #10-XX 646 2,261psf 2009-05-26 1,399psf $556,852 934 20.6%

Optima

2012-06-18 #03-XX 484 1,445psf 2009-08-27 970psf $229,900 1,026 15.2%

[Wild Falcon]

Classic posturing. Is it so important to showoff your wealth?

What makes you so sure regulators can only afford one decent CCR property? On what basis you put him down in the first sentence? For all you know, he could afford. For all you know, he is richer than you, maybe he just make less noise about his wealth.

And teddy and "others" (aiya. Just name yourself lah.) can have multiple CCR units - ya lah. We know lah. You and Teddy got multiple CCR units of decent size and each will cost more than $3.5 million. 10 units of 3.5 million each OK. Make enough hints about how successful you are already.

You are the type within 3 min of talking to u, u would have dropped somuch hints about how rich u are, u will make one wander maybe u are just insecure about your lack of achievement. Trust me. Hold back a bit of the need to show off. I think you are not aware of it frankly because no one will tell it in your face. You thought your hints dropping are indirect, but they are NOT.

Then you say blah blah at this level of investment than a "mere" $200k, (assuming u referring to rich men like yourself where $200k is rounding error?) people have a lot more options. Then you say "I" do not invest in OCR for yield. Which means you link yourself to the rich ones already lor.

Trust me. DAMN obvious. Classic. Probably a loser in real life but make the loudest noise.


@regulators: that is because all your "basket" is only sufficient for one decent CCR unit, whereas teddy and others can have multiple decent CCR units in diff areas ( for example you mentioned bt timah) to balance the portfolio.

Nb of high paying expats in my opinion never changed. Just the supply changed. Therefore you have to see wheich project.

At this level of investment ppl have a lot more options for a mere 200k looking for yield. CCR assets are for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. There arer plenty of other yielding assets to play. I personally do not invest OCR pties for yield ( I have OCR exposures)

[teddybear]

So true! There are many "fake" CCR projects... :p


@regulators: that is because all your "basket" is only sufficient for one decent CCR unit, whereas teddy and others can have multiple decent CCR units in diff areas ( for example you mentioned bt timah) to balance the portfolio.

Nb of high paying expats in my opinion never changed. Just the supply changed. Therefore you have to see which project.

At this level of investment ppl have a lot more options for a mere 200k looking for yield. CCR assets are for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. There arer plenty of other yielding assets to play. I personally do not invest OCR pties for yield ( I have OCR exposures)

[teddybear]

I think you don't know what you are talking. Yes, rentals in CCR is weakening, that is referring to "fake" CCRs. Ha ha ha! :D
My property investment rule number 1: Never buy OCR property, NEVER!!! :beats-me-man:
My property investment rule number 2: Never buy RCR property, NEVER!!
:p
My property investment rule number 3: Never buy "fake" CCR property, NEVER!! :ashamed1:


And I hope discussion can be more productive. Obviously convergence has happened. Face it, like it or not. And rentals in CCR as reported by this article is weakening. Constructive discussion would be why this trend is happening and what would reverse the trend. An irresponsible statement is something that position yourself as so much "richer" or what I called "posturing" - trying to indirectly show your wealth by saying "because you can't afford thats why u buy RCR/OCR". One CCR property can buy a basket of your RCR/OCR when in reality keeping everything else contstant other than location, it is not. The ratio is only 1:1.3 which is not exactly material. I know the need to drop hints and posture about your financial well-being for some individuals (and usually these are the ones not very well-off from my experience) but would appreciate if discussion could center more around the observation around the article. And general statements like "CCR is for capital appreciation" as if nothing else in this world can appreciate in value does not add any value to any discussion.

At least teddybear is candid in admitting the expats are a different breed compared to the past :)

[amk]

@WF, u still have not learned your lesson. And u still think this is about ur OCR CCR fight.

@regulators, congrats to your returns on OCR pty. for my circle of friends, probably due to the nature of the business, we do not treat pty as an asset class for yield. It's primarily for wealth preservation and capital appreciation, that does not require constant reblancing and trading. Therefore most of them have CCR exposure , not just any one, but quality ones. Mainly because such assets have stable valuations and tend to be less risky in long term. For yields, they have many financial instruments that are more liquid and have far less hassle. For example 2 weeks ago DBS did a bond at 3.1%. If u can get funding say at 70% 100bps, your yield is easily more than 8%, tax free. Why would I need to go through all the trouble of rental to get an inconsistent yield ? This is the angle that you can think about. I do have OCR exposures. I'm not really counting its yield. I will sell once it reaches appreciation target. However for my CCR positions, I will keep for much longer period, as a long term hedge for inflation. This is not saying my approach is better than yours. This is saying there is a reason why many CCR investors do not consider lower yield in ccr as something to worry about, and seemingly higher yield of OCR as something so exciting. It is very easy to beat the rental yield, nothing to shout about. But are you confident 20yrs from today, 5 regent heights valuation can beat 1 valuation of river gate ?

[teddybear]

Many people have not been landlords long enough to understand why collecting rental at $4k pm and below will never be able to make up enough for the damage that the tenants could do to their properties and the subsequent make-good costs. Never mind, enough said. :beats-me-man:


@WF, u still have not learned your lesson. And u still think this is about ur OCR CCR fight.

@regulators, congrats to your returns on OCR pty. for my circle of friends, probably due to the nature of the business, we do not treat pty as an asset class for yield. It's primarily for wealth preservation and capital appreciation, that does not require constant reblancing and trading. Therefore most of them have CCR exposure , not just any one, but quality ones. Mainly because such assets have stable valuations and tend to be less risky in long term. For yields, they have many financial instruments that are more liquid and have far less hassle. For example 2 weeks ago DBS did a bond at 3.1%. If u can get funding say at 70% 100bps, your yield is easily more than 8%, tax free. Why would I need to go through all the trouble of rental to get an inconsistent yield ? This is the angle that you can think about. I do have OCR exposures. I'm not really counting its yield. I will sell once it reaches appreciation target. However for my CCR positions, I will keep for much longer period, as a long term hedge for inflation. This is not saying my approach is better than yours. This is saying there is a reason why many CCR investors do not consider lower yield in ccr as something to worry about, and seemingly higher yield of OCR as something so exciting. It is very easy to beat the rental yield, nothing to shout about. But are you confident 20yrs from today, 5 regent heights valuation can beat 1 valuation of river gate ?

[Wild Falcon]

Still posturing? Wanting to teach people a "lesson"?

Because (i) Capital appreciation - my OCR/RCR properties have appreciated so much in the past 3 years. No kidding. Some >100%. (ii) Cheap leverage - only available for properties (iii) Yields above 4%. Cheap leverage means my actual returns is way higher.

The discussion is about why CCR rentals have come down. Scroll up. You started posturing to Regulators or show your superiority which peeved people off. what is the "you can't afford one CCR property" comment. Is that necessary. Why the word "mere" in front of $200k? Showing off that $200k is short change because you must be worth billions? So important to shout about your wealth?

Teddybear doesn't do that. if you notice. he just talk about his investment philosophy which is fine with me. He doesn't posture or is so hard up about hinting his wealth.


@WF, u still have not learned your lesson. And u still think this is about ur OCR CCR fight.

@regulators, congrats to your returns on OCR pty. for my circle of friends, probably due to the nature of the business, we do not treat pty as an asset class for yield. It's primarily for wealth preservation and capital appreciation, that does not require constant reblancing and trading. Therefore most of them have CCR exposure , not just any one, but quality ones. Mainly because such assets have stable valuations and tend to be less risky in long term. For yields, they have many financial instruments that are more liquid and have far less hassle. For example 2 weeks ago DBS did a bond at 3.1%. If u can get funding say at 70% 100bps, your yield is easily more than 8%, tax free. Why would I need to go through all the trouble of rental to get an inconsistent yield ? This is the angle that you can think about. I do have OCR exposures. I'm not really counting its yield. I will sell once it reaches appreciation target. However for my CCR positions, I will keep for much longer period, as a long term hedge for inflation. This is not saying my approach is better than yours. This is saying there is a reason why many CCR investors do not consider lower yield in ccr as something to worry about, and seemingly higher yield of OCR as something so exciting. It is very easy to beat the rental yield, nothing to shout about. But are you confident 20yrs from today, 5 regent heights valuation can beat 1 valuation of river gate ?

[Wild Falcon]

amk, I wasn't even into the CCR or OCR debate. Its your posturing and your need to showoff that I cannot stand. I've seen people like you in real life and the way you talk. You will keep dropping hints, link youself to the perceived rich people, and drop words like "mere" in front of $200k, or tell people off "you can't afford but I can" within like 3 minutes. Maybe nobody has ever told you about the way you are. Maybe you are insecure about people not knowing how "successful" you are. Maybe you are really as wealthy and successful as you shout yourself to be. But is it really that important to drop such hints all the time? And do you judge regulator as not being able to afford a CCR property just because he said he prefer to diversify? Actually I'm in a good mood today - thats why i take time to dissect your post. But take some time to re-read your post again. Have a nice day.

[Wild Falcon]

Read this again. amk.


@regulators: that is because all your "basket" is only sufficient for one decent CCR unit, whereas teddy and others can have multiple decent CCR units in diff areas ( for example you mentioned bt timah) to balance the portfolio.

Nb of high paying expats in my opinion never changed. Just the supply changed. Therefore you have to see wheich project.

At this level of investment ppl have a lot more options for a mere 200k looking for yield. CCR assets are for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. There arer plenty of other yielding assets to play. I personally do not invest OCR pties for yield ( I have OCR exposures)

[Wild Falcon]

And does anyone in the right mind invest in a 3.1% DBS bond? And amk that is your idea of a great investment for people in your "league" which you have been trying to hint? Goodness. Any stock investment or even REIT or overseas corporate bonds would have beaten that. No sweat. And I think you should stop posturing any more or your "circle of friends" with all CCR investments and must be able $3.5 million each. Hint hint. Read above. Hinting none of circle of friends have OCR property. Hint hint = > all your friends all elite ones who don't go suburbs. Your circle of friends only have "HIGH QUALITY CCR" property which means all must be able $3.5m EACH. hint hint. Don't make HDB flat friends. Hint hint good pedigree but somehow cannot get kids and must move ai tong? Hehe. Old habits die hard.

Are you really that insecure?

[Wild Falcon]

every opportunity u take to show off. So your circle of friends are rich and only buy CCR property? Just say "I" lah. Why bring rich friends in? Or by association? Don't have friends who stay in suburbs?

Classic. Every opportunity is used to show off your wealth. I don't see how saying your circle of friends all have many quality investments in CCR has any relevance. I guess its so much a part of you to drop names and hints about your success (or lackof) and association with rich people. Sometimes, holding back a bit makes u look more sophisticated, even in real life. After all, the truly sucessful are usually less conspicuous. And if you're really successful, people will know :)

[quote=amk]

@regulators, congrats to your returns on OCR pty. for my circle of friends, probably due to the nature of the business, we do not treat pty as an asset class for yield. It's primarily for wealth preservation and capital appreciation, that does not require constant reblancing and trading. Therefore most of them have CCR exposure , not just any one, but quality ones.

[Regulators]

i am usually quite astute in my decisions and i generally do not follow the crowd. Yes, you are right about bonds paying 8% interest but that is still nothing compared to the almost 200% ROI if anyone had bought an OCR property in the west in 2010. I always do price comparisons before i buy. I have given valid pointers to you guys why regent heights was a good buy back in 2010 only to be bombarded by so many people who were only looking at physical not the intrinsic value of the investment. Buying 99yr LH ptys is a different ball game.


@WF, u still have not learned your lesson. And u still think this is about ur OCR CCR fight.

@regulators, congrats to your returns on OCR pty. for my circle of friends, probably due to the nature of the business, we do not treat pty as an asset class for yield. It's primarily for wealth preservation and capital appreciation, that does not require constant reblancing and trading. Therefore most of them have CCR exposure , not just any one, but quality ones. Mainly because such assets have stable valuations and tend to be less risky in long term. For yields, they have many financial instruments that are more liquid and have far less hassle. For example 2 weeks ago DBS did a bond at 3.1%. If u can get funding say at 70% 100bps, your yield is easily more than 8%, tax free. Why would I need to go through all the trouble of rental to get an inconsistent yield ? This is the angle that you can think about. I do have OCR exposures. I'm not really counting its yield. I will sell once it reaches appreciation target. However for my CCR positions, I will keep for much longer period, as a long term hedge for inflation. This is not saying my approach is better than yours. This is saying there is a reason why many CCR investors do not consider lower yield in ccr as something to worry about, and seemingly higher yield of OCR as something so exciting. It is very easy to beat the rental yield, nothing to shout about. But are you confident 20yrs from today, 5 regent heights valuation can beat 1 valuation of river gate ?

[amk]

@regulators, yes the 8% extracted from a bond is nothing compared with a ROI of your pty return, but this is comparing 2 diff thing, isn't it ? One is comparing yield, one is comparing capital gain. Th idea of bond is not for capital gain. That's for yield play. When you have say 3mil, you allocate 1mil for something long trm, 1 mil for modest yield less risk ( bond), 1 mil for speculative "opportunistic" play. In my book this regent height buy falls into the last one, that you see an opportunity and go for it.

And for academic discussion, let say you are extracting 6% yield now based on ur purchase price, but based on current valuation it's 4% because it appreciated. In my line MtM this asset is no better yielding than any other pty that is yielding 4% as its current price. In other words it may become reasonable to take a capital gain now, instead of harboring the thought that "my yield is 6%, no need to sell". Do you see the rationale in this ?

[Regulators]

Yes, I am contemplating on selling, but not at this price as there is room for further price appreciation. If pty prices are stagnant, it would make sense to continue keeping a pty n renting out, but when price of pty surge, a judgement call is needed between realising profit n forgoing possibly higher roi n also future rental, not an easy decision to make. Based on my price n rental analysis, the potential of my ocr buy has not reached its full potential.
@regulators, yes the 8% extracted from a bond is nothing compared with a ROI of your pty return, but this is comparing 2 diff thing, isn't it ? One is comparing yield, one is comparing capital gain. Th idea of bond is not for capital gain. That's for yield play. When you have say 3mil, you allocate 1mil for something long trm, 1 mil for modest yield less risk ( bond), 1 mil for speculative "opportunistic" play. In my book this regent height buy falls into the last one, that you see an opportunity and go for it.

And for academic discussion, let say you are extracting 6% yield now based on ur purchase price, but based on current valuation it's 4% because it appreciated. In my line MtM this asset is no better yielding than any other pty that is yielding 4% as its current price. In other words it may become reasonable to take a capital gain now, instead of harboring the thought that "my yield is 6%, no need to sell". Do you see the rationale in this ?

[minority]

which angmo guy wouldnt want a submissive asian wife? :)
hopefully local gals can tie down these expats and not the other way round, expats export out local gals.


Singapore girls are far from submissive.

[amk]

Yes, I am contemplating on selling, but not at this price as there is room for further price appreciation. If pty prices are stagnant, it would make sense to continue keeping a pty n renting out, but when price of pty surge, a judgement call is needed between realising profit n forgoing possibly higher roi n also future rental, not an easy decision to make. Based on my price n rental analysis, the potential of my ocr buy has not reached its full potential.

Very sensible. Tis is all judgement call. If pty investment is so easy, every one makes money already.

... One of the reasons I rely on other products for yield... Much simpler

[focus]

Singapore girls are far from submissive.

That's because the guys start off from the wrong foot.
If you treat her like god-send, you are asking for it.
But cannot treat her like dirt too.
Must be balanced... then both will respect each other.

[minority]

That's because the guys start off from the wrong foot.
If you treat her like god-send, you are asking for it.
But cannot treat her like dirt too.
Must be balanced... then both will respect each other.


But the original post says submissive. So now you mean its equal ? I C.

[hopeful]

Singapore girls are far from submissive.

singapore girls are more submissive than angmo girls.
hence angmo men go for singapore girls.

vietnam girls are more submissive than singapore girls.
hence single singapore men look for wives in vietnam.

it is mens' ego afterall.
only a select few go for dominatrix.