View Full Version : Get married, have babies
phantom_opera
12-08-12, 12:49
Today's Sunday Times, first page big big title, LKY again screaming about survival of Singapore at stake if we do not pro-create ... immigration is only short term solution
He lamented 44% of 30-34 years Singaporeans hippies are still singles (confirmed MM is the best investment in next 20y) and Chinese having a pathetic 1.04 birth rate
Then you turn into subsection of Sunday Times ... again big big title "How to save for your child's education" ... figure given is 8k per year for preschool and quoting all sort of money suckers like ILP, endowment plan ... best still one guys said endowment plan only returns 3-4% on average :doh:
Actually what have PAP done to encourage pro-creation other than the pathetic baby bonus which barely covers hospital expenses and negligible tax benefit for 2nd kid onward?
Some obvious policies like reduce cost of preschools, COE discount for big family, maid levy waiver, set up a special CPF education account etc are so obvious but no sound no picture :sleep:
Talking is no use, show us some colors, when people do not feel secure retiring, who will care about whether Singapore can survive 50y down the road.
So may I know what you think PAP can do to improve the birth rate? For that matter, what do you think any political party (WP, SDP .....etc whatever...) can do to promote pro-creation?
Today's Sunday Times, first page big big title, LKY again screaming about survival of Singapore at stake if we do not pro-create ... immigration is only short term solution
He lamented 44% of 30-34 years Singaporeans hippies are still singles (confirmed MM is the best investment in next 20y) and Chinese having a pathetic 1.04 birth rate
Then you turn into subsection of Sunday Times ... again big big title "How to save for your child's education" ... figure given is 8k per year for preschool and quoting all sort of money suckers like ILP, endowment plan ... best still one guys said endowment plan only returns 3-4% on average :doh:
Actually what have PAP done to encourage pro-creation other than the pathetic baby bonus which barely covers hospital expenses and negligible tax benefit for 2nd kid onward?
Some obvious policies like reduce cost of preschools, COE discount for big family, maid levy waiver, set up a special CPF education account etc are so obvious but no sound no picture :sleep:
Talking is no use, show us some colors, when people do not feel secure retiring, who will care about whether Singapore can survive 50y down the road.
making babies is the FUN part...:D:D:D:cheers1:
phantom_opera
12-08-12, 14:21
So may I know what you think PAP can do to improve the birth rate? For that matter, what do you think any political party (WP, SDP .....etc whatever...) can do to promote pro-creation?
Bro, I already suggested a few things ... u never read ah? PAP should waive maid levy / give free COE for family having the 2nd kid ... of course then u would say we will have traffic jam ... so which one more important traffic jam or procreation? :p
And your reply reminds me of the very famous question "what do u think?"
who get paid millions of dollars to run the government hah? The government should come out with 100 ideas and have public consultation ... the lame excuse of "can opposition do better" and "what do u think" are excuses for incompetence only :tongue3:
Ban condoms in Singapore. :rolleyes:
phantom_opera
12-08-12, 14:31
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0f/One_Two_and_That%27s_Ideal_.jpg
Ban abortion ...
Some policies:
1) Ban Condoms sale in Singapore.
2) Families with 3 babies are eligible for free cat A coe.
3) Single parents get free studio HDB apartment under child's name.
4) Free education for all citizens till O levels.
:rolleyes:
Bro, I already suggested a few things ... u never read ah? PAP should waive maid levy / give free COE for family having the 2nd kid ... of course then u would say we will have traffic jam ... so which one more important traffic jam or procreation? :p
And your reply reminds me of the very famous question "what do u think?"
who get paid millions of dollars to run the government hah? The government should come out with 100 ideas and have public consultation ... the lame excuse of "can opposition do better" and "what do u think" are excuses for incompetence only :tongue3:
How about no stamp duty or lesser ABSD for those with 2 or more children?
3 or more kids parents can pick any top primary schools of their choice..no 1km rules or siblings required etc..
Increase maternity leave and introduce combined maternity and paternity leave
All preschool fees are tax deductible
Private Tuition fees are tax deductible
Children's education trust funds are tax deductible
Allthepies
12-08-12, 14:43
Reduce 2 years reservist for the father for each child he generates. (encourage early parenthood)
Give 5% pay rise to the father for each child he generates.
Singapore is a self-centered country, must give direct benefits to the father or mother.
:D :D :D :D
Those who have children before being enlisted are exempted from all national service requirements. :scared-3: :rolleyes:
phantom_opera
12-08-12, 14:48
Those who have children before being enlisted are exempted from all national service requirements. :scared-3: :rolleyes:
the best idea so far ... sure works
less people doing NS - weakened defence
no baby - sure die
which is lesser of the evil? :p
Allthepies
12-08-12, 14:49
Those who have children before being enlisted are exempted from all national service requirements. :scared-3: :rolleyes:
No lah when parents too young they are financially and mentally not ready to groom their offsprings
ikan bilis
12-08-12, 15:05
why must "Get married, have babies"... "have babies, Get married" can or not ... ??... :confused:
So far any body suggested to have more then one wife. ? Lunckly my wife don surf this site ...he he :D
Today's Sunday Times, first page big big title, LKY again screaming about survival of Singapore at stake if we do not pro-create ... immigration is only short term solution
He lamented 44% of 30-34 years Singaporeans hippies are still singles (confirmed MM is the best investment in next 20y) and Chinese having a pathetic 1.04 birth rate
Then you turn into subsection of Sunday Times ... again big big title "How to save for your child's education" ... figure given is 8k per year for preschool and quoting all sort of money suckers like ILP, endowment plan ... best still one guys said endowment plan only returns 3-4% on average :doh:
Actually what have PAP done to encourage pro-creation other than the pathetic baby bonus which barely covers hospital expenses and negligible tax benefit for 2nd kid onward?
Some obvious policies like reduce cost of preschools, COE discount for big family, maid levy waiver, set up a special CPF education account etc are so obvious but no sound no picture :sleep:
Talking is no use, show us some colors, when people do not feel secure retiring, who will care about whether Singapore can survive 50y down the road.
After a speculative appearance in NPD, now calling ppl to procreative ...he is kicking stronger then any of us...power sia !!!
phantom_opera
12-08-12, 15:21
The Sunday Times quoted one civil servant family to pay $1200 per month for the little princess childcare with $300 subsidy if she continues to work
And they already bought an endowment plan for their 11 month old little princess to save for her university education ... insurance agents in general, are really as evil as the bankers ... the same article quoted a 3-4% average return for such policy ... and that is in the past where 15-30y SGS bond yield were still at 3-4% ... in the next 20y ... endowment plan could return below 3%
:beats-me-man:
And obviously they have not read this:
http://tankinlian.com/FramePDF.aspx?ID=669
Allthepies
12-08-12, 15:28
The Sunday Times quoted one civil servant family to pay $1200 per month for the little princess childcare with $300 subsidy if she continues to work
And they already bought an endowment plan for their 11 month old little princess to save for her university education ... insurance agents in general, are really as evil as the bankers ... the same article quoted a 3-4% average return for such policy ... and that is in the past where 15-30y SGS bond yield were still at 3-4% ... in the next 20y ... endowment plan could return below 3%
:beats-me-man:
And obviously they have not read this:
http://tankinlian.com/FramePDF.aspx?ID=669
Our education system has 0 time allocated for financial literacy, tat is really sad. So many Singaporeans are good at earning money but only a handful really know how to manage their finances :doh: :doh:
No 10% no invest.
Hmmm.... ok... thank you
Bro, I already suggested a few things ... u never read ah? PAP should waive maid levy / give free COE for family having the 2nd kid ... of course then u would say we will have traffic jam ... so which one more important traffic jam or procreation? :p
And your reply reminds me of the very famous question "what do u think?"
who get paid millions of dollars to run the government hah? The government should come out with 100 ideas and have public consultation ... the lame excuse of "can opposition do better" and "what do u think" are excuses for incompetence only :tongue3:
So may I know what you think PAP can do to improve the birth rate? For that matter, what do you think any political party (WP, SDP .....etc whatever...) can do to promote pro-creation?
u pay me those million dollar ministerial salary 1st then i tell u.. :)
Hmmm... yes... another good point...
This is very constructive and useful....
u pay me those million dollar ministerial salary 1st then i tell u.. :)
IMHO the financial incentives got to be much bigger. And instead of a one time lump sum, it's better to be a 20yr thing, like some 20 yr tax break of say 30k per child each yr. raising a child is a long term thing, the least gov can do is this.
Another thing is nationalize the child care sector, and open as many as it can, and run them like utilities non profit based. So working couples can find it easy to send to a child care nearby.
These 2 need money though. I dun know how much it will cost.
Singapore needs a lot more pro family policies. Not all of these need to cost govt money.
1. Huge income tax rebates for those with 3 kids or more.
2. Priority for HDB BTO flats.
3. COE rebates.
4. Priority queues for all govt services e.g. Passport collection,immigration checkpoints, polyclinics etc.
5. Free education for 3rd child from kindergarten all the way to University.
6. Create a phase 1A for 3rd child priority for primary school registration.
7. Priority parking in malls for those with kids (only City Sq mall has it).
8. NS exemption if already have 2 boys and 3rd or subsequent child is a male.
9. Better after school child care facilities. Not those that must pick up ur kid by 7 pm sharp type.
10. No penalty if need to upgrade to bigger BTO flats for second timers with 3 kids or more.
11. No income limit for BTO flats for bigger families with 3 or more kids.
Basically, we are not a family friendly society at all. I was in UK last Dec on holiday with my 3 kids. The immigration queue was extremely long. It would have taken us at least 1 hr to clear it. When the immigration officers saw us, they immediately formed a new line and ushered all those with young children to this line. We cleared customs in 5 mins.
I like your suggestions fclim.
Today's Sunday Times, first page big big title, LKY again screaming about survival of Singapore at stake if we do not pro-create ... immigration is only short term solution
He lamented 44% of 30-34 years Singaporeans hippies are still singles (confirmed MM is the best investment in next 20y) and Chinese having a pathetic 1.04 birth rate
Then you turn into subsection of Sunday Times ... again big big title "How to save for your child's education" ... figure given is 8k per year for preschool and quoting all sort of money suckers like ILP, endowment plan ... best still one guys said endowment plan only returns 3-4% on average :doh:
Actually what have PAP done to encourage pro-creation other than the pathetic baby bonus which barely covers hospital expenses and negligible tax benefit for 2nd kid onward?
Some obvious policies like reduce cost of preschools, COE discount for big family, maid levy waiver, set up a special CPF education account etc are so obvious but no sound no picture :sleep:
Talking is no use, show us some colors, when people do not feel secure retiring, who will care about whether Singapore can survive 50y down the road.
No Matter what is done people will always have a reason to feel insecure. or too buys or somethings.
Falling birth rate is a problem of developed countries. Where the population get more educated and also have many other options in life. Also with that people tend to put I 1st. Enjoy life etc.
Bro, I already suggested a few things ... u never read ah? PAP should waive maid levy / give free COE for family having the 2nd kid ... of course then u would say we will have traffic jam ... so which one more important traffic jam or procreation? :p
And your reply reminds me of the very famous question "what do u think?"
who get paid millions of dollars to run the government hah? The government should come out with 100 ideas and have public consultation ... the lame excuse of "can opposition do better" and "what do u think" are excuses for incompetence only :tongue3:
What do COE have to do with child bearing? U mean countries where people cannot afford cars also have slowing birth rate? I think the COE is not relevant.
what is your comment to below incident:
in a crowded lift going down a young boy closest to the lift buttons press level 3 and say out loudly facing the door "i pressed level 3 because I'm going to level 3. I'm not going to level 1." and he stared blankly at the door.
phantom_opera
13-08-12, 09:26
What do COE have to do with child bearing? U mean countries where people cannot afford cars also have slowing birth rate? I think the COE is not relevant.
once you have more than 1 kid, you need a car, if car price is so prohibitive, it basically is not pro-family ... in other countries, cars are mostly affordable so not an issue at all
This started it all - when we started playing God in "family planning".
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0f/One_Two_and_That%27s_Ideal_.jpg
Ban abortion ...
Some obvious policies like reduce cost of preschools, COE discount for big family, maid levy waiver, set up a special CPF education account etc are so obvious but no sound no picture :sleep:
Singapore needs a lot more pro family policies. Not all of these need to cost govt money.
1. Huge income tax rebates for those with 3 kids or more.
2. Priority for HDB BTO flats.
3. COE rebates.
4. Priority queues for all govt services e.g. Passport collection,immigration checkpoints, polyclinics etc.
5. Free education for 3rd child from kindergarten all the way to University.
6. Create a phase 1A for 3rd child priority for primary school registration.
7. Priority parking in malls for those with kids (only City Sq mall has it).
8. NS exemption if already have 2 boys and 3rd or subsequent child is a male.
9. Better after school child care facilities. Not those that must pick up ur kid by 7 pm sharp type.
10. No penalty if need to upgrade to bigger BTO flats for second timers with 3 kids or more.
11. No income limit for BTO flats for bigger families with 3 or more kids.
All the above are good suggestions, the challenges are:
1 - financially - where to find the $$$ to fund it and
2 - emotionally - how to answer to the other segments of the society (e.g. singles / married with no kids) - This group will surely cry - "not fair".
My suggestions are:
1 - allocate profit from past reserve to fund x% of the above
1 - for the rest of the shortfall, increase personal income tax (as oppose to more tax rebates) and business income taxes. My understanding is govt needs moo-la to function and the moo-la comes from businesses and citizens.
2 - the backlash will be from the other segment of the society and businesses, the unhappy ones may potentially uproot and leave. This is the risk we all have to take after consultations with all stakeholders.
do also kena scolding, dun do also kena scolding.... on the otherhand, to get such a high pay, i suppose the ministers should be okay to take some scolding.... :D
1. Huge income tax rebates for those with 3 kids or more.
5. Free education for 3rd child from kindergarten all the way to University.
11. No income limit for BTO flats for bigger families with 3 or more kids.
These 3 damn power.
(5) machiam buy 2 get 1 free.
(11) Those with 3rd child qualify as HDB Gold PPS, no income limit, get choice unit, untilies off 25% for 20yrs, ppty tax free 20 yrs.
adding my 2cents, seems to me like PAP isn't very sure of itself and doesnt have confidence in its plans.
1) in 2005-2010, import migrants alot, yet doesnt seem to built infrastructure to support growing population.
in case importing migrants didnt pan out well, at least didnt spend money on infrastructure.
2) because he kena blamed for stop at 2, LKY mentioned the falling fertility rate is a hallmark of developed countries.
yet if LKY knew of that fact, why did he hastened the falling fertility rate by implementing stop at 2 policy?
he mentioned something like small economy, growing population, standard of living doing down.
so basically LKY is not also not sure of Singapore success story, hence he implement stop at 2.
If we had followed the "Stop at 2" our fertility rate should be 2.0 is it? Chinese with the lowest rate, what happened? No time to make luv? :scared-4:
1) Reverse old policies of less children - Done (mental block still?)
2) Introduce incentives to (more) children - Done. (More can be done?)
3) Study the issue from normal pax stand-point...
- study so hard, so career important = defer marriage.
- entrenched in career = no time for taking care of babies.
- have one child = where is the support since both parent work?
- two children = school priority, finances
- three and more children = no outside life, finances, sacrifices
So how to 'break' the links in some of these and secondly how to provide support.
And remember, all wage earners are constantly living under the threats of down-sizing etc. How to have more babies if you feel under threat?
All the above are good suggestions, the challenges are:
1 - financially - where to find the $$$ to fund it and
2 - emotionally - how to answer to the other segments of the society (e.g. singles / married with no kids) - This group will surely cry - "not fair".
My suggestions are:
1 - allocate profit from past reserve to fund x% of the above
1 - for the rest of the shortfall, increase personal income tax (as oppose to more tax rebates) and business income taxes. My understanding is govt needs moo-la to function and the moo-la comes from businesses and citizens.
2 - the backlash will be from the other segment of the society and businesses, the unhappy ones may potentially uproot and leave. This is the risk we all have to take after consultations with all stakeholders.
do also kena scolding, dun do also kena scolding.... on the otherhand, to get such a high pay, i suppose the ministers should be okay to take some scolding.... :D
scold only, they are so thick skin, dont feel a thing.
But cut their salaries then all will start to whine and rant.
is the current baby measures as "draconian" as the stop at 2 policy?
if not, then new baby measures have to be more "draconian" then the stop at 2 policy
The had the wind at their backs for the last 40 years. Everything went their way, including the minds/hearts of the People.
Now the wind has shifted.
adding my 2cents, seems to me like PAP isn't very sure of itself and doesnt have confidence in its plans.
1) in 2005-2010, import migrants alot, yet doesnt seem to built infrastructure to support growing population.
in case importing migrants didnt pan out well, at least didnt spend money on infrastructure.
2) because he kena blamed for stop at 2, LKY mentioned the falling fertility rate is a hallmark of developed countries.
yet if LKY knew of that fact, why did he hastened the falling fertility rate by implementing stop at 2 policy?
he mentioned something like small economy, growing population, standard of living doing down.
so basically LKY is not also not sure of Singapore success story, hence he implement stop at 2.
Singapore needs a lot more pro family policies. Not all of these need to cost govt money.
1. Huge income tax rebates for those with 3 kids or more.
2. Priority for HDB BTO flats.
3. COE rebates.
4. Priority queues for all govt services e.g. Passport collection,immigration checkpoints, polyclinics etc.
5. Free education for 3rd child from kindergarten all the way to University.
6. Create a phase 1A for 3rd child priority for primary school registration.
7. Priority parking in malls for those with kids (only City Sq mall has it).
8. NS exemption if already have 2 boys and 3rd or subsequent child is a male.
9. Better after school child care facilities. Not those that must pick up ur kid by 7 pm sharp type.
10. No penalty if need to upgrade to bigger BTO flats for second timers with 3 kids or more.
11. No income limit for BTO flats for bigger families with 3 or more kids.
Basically, we are not a family friendly society at all. I was in UK last Dec on holiday with my 3 kids. The immigration queue was extremely long. It would have taken us at least 1 hr to clear it. When the immigration officers saw us, they immediately formed a new line and ushered all those with young children to this line. We cleared customs in 5 mins.Agree with you... our society needs to be more child friendly not in terms of building more playgrounds or childcare centres but to provide greater tangible incentives for parents to procreate. Like what you pointed out about BTO and COE and educational benefits. These are exactly the top 3 most expensive thing in anyone's life.
The baby bonus $ for $ for my kid up to $6k + $6k has been totally used up before my kid turns 4. So govt If govt is serious about procreation, they should set aside more for long term investment. Like MRT, no provision was made for the huge rise in ridership until the 2 major breakdowns last year (yesterday got another signalling problem again) before our lovely govt decides to pump in huge $$$ for bus and train improvement. Will our MIW want to repeat it for our fertility rate? Wait till there are more old folks above age 60 than those younger then govt will step in? LKY already started the ball rolling by voicing his concerns.
Frankly, I'm also tired of listening to some schools of thoughts voicing the opinion that it is wrong to continually demand monetary incentives from our govt. While I agree that we can't always demand everything from our MIW but procreation is not one such thing. When I piece reality and reality together, it is really madness just mentioning about the 3 things - home, car (can be optional though) and education. Can't expect a family of 5 to stay in a 3 rm flat forever (3 kids squeeze into 1 room ok if all same gender but if different then a bit difficult when they grow up)? Estimated cost of house + car + education = $500k (4 rm flat) + $200k (Jap car over 2 COEs, i.e. 20yrs) + $300k (3 kids from kindergarten to Uni, conservative) = $1mil. You need to be a millionaire to have 3 kids. This works out to be $4167/mth over 20 years. Add daily meals, etc. Family household income must be about $8k to $10k and that is without saving for retirement!!! (of course my calculations have many flaws but its just indicative) How many family nucleus can enjoy such a household income? Frankly, govt need to step in lah.
scold only, they are so thick skin, dont feel a thing.
But cut their salaries then all will start to whine and rant.
why you forummers want to think so much for government?
should have a new ministry.
his KPI is the fertility rate of natural born singaporeans, and not that of converted singaporeans.
then he will think of solutions and not you forummers.
Families with 4 children or more get an extra free 5 room hdb flat tax free, free coe, free education for all children till university level, pay $0 income tax till all children are above 21 yrs old and free utilities bill till one child has cpf income.
:rolleyes:
actually the formula is fixed. Singaporean giving birth is part of the formula. We are a small country with limited resource, we need certain number of population to sustain the growth and we cannot deny this fact. so if pure Singaporean don even want to give birth to replace themselve, the shrinking population is a real threat. so i think immigrant is needed to form this formula temporary and continue to change the mindset of Singaporean to give birth.
The Sunday Times quoted one civil servant family to pay $1200 per month for the little princess childcare with $300 subsidy if she continues to work
$1200 is considered cheap alr
most of my neighbours pay in the ave of $1600, and with enrichment classes, is around $3000 a month
I spoke to my two children on this subject.
My son replied : I am not going to have children, why should I bring them to this world, they suffer and I suffer as well.
My girl said : well, my son will take up US citizenship or HK citizenship as NS is a stupid thing to do. If a girl, then will be Sg citizenship.
And both ended up : Mum, where am I going to stay? so expensive.
I have serious doubt how any policy can be pro family without being at the same time anti singles/single parents.
If everything is so simple, anyone can be in policy making. that's why we pay top dollars to people in the govt service to formulate well rounded and balanced policies without making any segment of society feel marginalised. guess so far the results have been less than stellar.
and Laguna once again confused us with his gender... dad or mum?
and Laguna once again confused us with his gender... dad or mum?
isn't it interesting? we always talk as a family....
If Laguna wants grandchild, need to share their burden liao. keke
If Laguna wants grandchild, need to share their burden liao. keke
I look at my bro and sister-in-law, staying in a EA flat, 5 grandchildren, 4 maids....and they are full time baby sitters, cook, driver....and all their children go back for dinner, a total of 18 pax every weekday for dinner.....
the only peace time they have is when the children all taking their afternoon nap.....
I ask myself, am I prepared for all these? I doubt......
and Laguna once again confused us with his gender... dad or mum?
Laguna reluctant to open up his wallet or bring chq book so use mum to add pressure. :D
@Laguna 3000 can feed my whole family of 4 plus the maid!!!!!
LOL :o ...my son also say the same thing...say he's not going to get married even...
Looks like I have buy a MM for him..:doh:
I spoke to my two children on this subject.
My son replied : I am not going to have children, why should I bring them to this world, they suffer and I suffer as well.
My girl said : well, my son will take up US citizenship or HK citizenship as NS is a stupid thing to do. If a girl, then will be Sg citizenship.
And both ended up : Mum, where am I going to stay? so expensive.
Laguna reluctant to open up his wallet or bring chq book so use mum to add pressure. :D
My son always say he has 3 tiger mums. First is his mother, second is his sister, third is his gf.
gn and Laguna... why kids nowadays don't like to have their own kids? is it cost? is it fear of responsibility? is it selfishness? have you ever asked them?
I see gay people everywhere fighting to get married and adopt children. what is happening to this world??
I spoke to my two children on this subject.
My son replied : I am not going to have children, why should I bring them to this world, they suffer and I suffer as well.
My girl said : well, my son will take up US citizenship or HK citizenship as NS is a stupid thing to do. If a girl, then will be Sg citizenship.
And both ended up : Mum, where am I going to stay? so expensive.
wow... too negative la... having children = suffering meh? there're many positive things in life too... :rolleyes:
NS is a stupid thing to do? alamak... if no NS, we will be kena makan up in no time la... if there is no credible defence force, it will be a 'low-hanging fruit' for many larger forces around us... :banghead:
in sillypore, 1 generation is enuff to break the "poor" cycle... just need a lot of hard work... opportunies are everywhere for those who strive hard enough... :tongue3:
US or HK citizenship? my friend say: "...the grass is always greener on the other side, because there're more sh*t underneath there la... " :D
gn and Laguna... why kids nowadays don't like to have their own kids? is it cost? is it fear of responsibility? is it selfishness? have you ever asked them?
I see gay people everywhere fighting to get married and adopt children. what is happening to this world??
most kids just said only lah...when the time come, most will forget what they said...
for those old couples without any kids they will regret later, like tracy huang.
gn and Laguna... why kids nowadays don't like to have their own kids? is it cost? is it fear of responsibility? is it selfishness? have you ever asked them?
I see gay people everywhere fighting to get married and adopt children. what is happening to this world??
Ya, bascially, my son had a very hard time in schools and also competing with the sister, it was never easy for him. And he does not want his children to follow his footsteps.
I explained to him that every child is unique and we nvr compare him with the girl. But somehow, he can't get over it. Even up to today ....he still told me the same....and it is rather heart breaking....
Also, I have 3 close cousins, very rich, and none of them want to have children, and they have a great life styles....this has also influenced my son.
actually the formula is fixed. Singaporean giving birth is part of the formula. We are a small country with limited resource, we need certain number of population to sustain the growth and we cannot deny this fact. so if pure Singaporean don even want to give birth to replace themselve, the shrinking population is a real threat. so i think immigrant is needed to form this formula temporary and continue to change the mindset of Singaporean to give birth.
correct lor, everything must give and take.. want growth, want prosperity must have some min population mah..
US or HK citizenship? my friend say: "...the grass is always greener on the other side, because there're more sh*t underneath there la... " :D
One of the reasons to take up US citizenship is becos the top colleges there only accept 10-12% international students. But drawback is the taxes...
One of the reasons to take up US citizenship is becos the top colleges there only accept 10-12% international students. But drawback is the taxes...
the next century belongs to Asia... why go to US now when the US is looking eastwards.... :D
the next century belongs to Asia... why go to US now when the US is looking eastwards.... :D
even the top 4 uni in China are getting better, but somehow, Amercian education system is still more open...
BTW, it is a a very very long term problem...
and once u hv a US citizenship, it is very very very difficult to surrender
Laguna don't fret. I think when your son reach a certain maturity say mid or late 30s he will have drastic change of mindset. that's when people start to feel the temporary nature of life and vulnerability that nobody gonna be here forever so just enjoy what you have now and do it. of course provided he loves kids in the first place...
and then there are some other people who are better off alone or without kids.
even the top 4 uni in China are getting better, but somehow, Amercian education system is still more open...
BTW, it is a a very very long term problem...
and once u hv a US citizenship, it is very very very difficult to surrender
yes yes... agree... very different systems... Ang-Mos still got their edge...
you might have a valid point here, which i am unable to understand, since I'm a pure MIS (made-in-singapore) and no other citizenship before...
pai seh pai seh... :p
Laguna don't fret. I think when your son reach a certain maturity say mid or late 30s he will have drastic change of mindset. that's when people start to feel the temporary nature of life and vulnerability that nobody gonna be here forever so just enjoy what you have now and do it. of course provided he loves kids in the first place...
and then there are some other people who are better off alone or without kids.
ya, he is late groomer...did well in poly and uni.
Well, there are so many girls go after him....
So when DPM Teo say that govt must work hand in hand with citizens on a sustainable population, what is he referring to? How serious and proactive or still throw ball back to citizens and SMRT, etc?
Having children is a very personal thing. BUT, since the govt wants to intervene and nationalise it to make it like a "national service" thingy, then they JOLLY WELL come up with better rewards, incentives and very pro-family policies for people to procreate.
Not half hearted ones like the baby bonus scheme, where the poor cannot benefit since they cannot come up with the 50% co-payment to match the full bonus amount or the income tax relief scheme where the poor do not enjoy as they pay no income tax and the rich will use up the relief in no time due to their high income.
They talk so much about doing what is right for the country, but has no guts and never walk the talk at all.
phantom_opera
13-08-12, 12:22
Our garmen is more like ECB Draggy and US Feb Bernerd .. "whatever it takes"
NATO (No action, Talk Only) .. they previously think throwing a $3000 cheque or co-pay $6000 for 2nd kid can push people to have children ... I think they are dreaming :p Where is the baby (bond) buying and income tax easing ? how much budget? 500b or 1T?
I think now they realize immigration is short term solution as it is very inflationary
I repeat .. middle class is worried about survival in this generation when retiring and day to day expenses like car, food, property etc ... what is the use talking about whether Singapore can survive in 50y time?? ...they must cut ministers / top civil servant pay to 10k per month to understand
A typically family with 10k family income with 1 kid min buget is 4k without a car / maid, 5k with car, 6k with maid ... CPF OA must be used to pay property ... 1 more kid you practically zero saving
:p
Some policies:
1) Ban Condoms sale in Singapore.
2) Families with 3 babies are eligible for free cat A coe.
3) Single parents get free studio HDB apartment under child's name.
4) Free education for all citizens till O levels.
:rolleyes:
these 2 ideas sure bery good in attracting the average household to have more babies. :D
also, shld offer bigger housing subsidies for bigger families to upgrade to a larger flat. i.e. an additional 30k housing grant to allow families with 3 kids to upgrade from 3 room to 4 rooms flats.
another policy that can be mirrored from scandinavian countries is allowing for paternity leave plus additional childcare leave for additional children..
Yup.... govt simply no guts to showhand. No action to follow through after all the talkings... sigh! :tsk-tsk:
phantom_opera
13-08-12, 12:37
I am sure all the MPs with 15k part time income and top civil servants all must produce 3-4 kids in order to continue to survive in PAP ... but they are probably the top 5% income earners ... probably at least $30k to $300k per month
No problem, just mandate all these PAP members to produce X 2 or X 3 ... become baby producing machines :D
Or just follow Prof Cheng suggestion, freeze the top 5% salary and allow the middle class / poor to catch up :D
I am sure all the MPs with 15k part time income and top civil servants all must produce 3-4 kids in order to continue to survive in PAP ... but they are probably the top 5% income earners ... probably at least $30k to $300k per month
No problem, just mandate all these PAP members to produce X 2 or X 3 ... become baby producing machines :D
Or just follow Prof Cheng suggestion, freeze the top 5% salary and allow the middle class / poor to catch up :D
Prof Cheng's suggestion sounds too academic and have little relevance in actual economics play leh. it's not like the garmen will/can distribute the income originally allocated to the top 5% to the rest mah.. :confused:
funny how more and more well off couples are choosing not to have kids.. while some of the less well off families are having lots of kids (like my malay neibor who has 5 kids!).. :scared-1:
phantom_opera
13-08-12, 12:42
Hiring an Indonesian maid will be more expensive by year's end.
Employers hiring such maids from November will have to sign a contract with a clause stipulating that the maid must be paid at least $450.
Another clause will state that if she works on all her four weekly rest days each month, she has to be paid another $70, or $17.50 for each day off she works.
These two clauses will be in the contracts issued by the Indonesian government. But how far they will go to ensure Indonesian maids are compensated fairly depends on the rigour of enforcement - and the Indonesian Embassy's record in this has been patchy.
phantom_opera
13-08-12, 12:43
Prof Cheng's suggestion sounds too academic and have little relevance in actual economics play leh. it's not like the garmen will/can distribute the income originally allocated to the top 5% to the rest mah.. :confused:
funny how more and more well off couples are choosing not to have kids.. while some of the less well off families are having lots of kids (like my malay neibor who has 5 kids!).. :scared-1:
Malay birth rate is 1.64 ... Indian / Chinese 1.0X :doh:
Another 10y, I won't be surprised that Chinese birth rate is 0.5
Hiring an Indonesian maid will be more expensive by year's end.
Employers hiring such maids from November will have to sign a contract with a clause stipulating that the maid must be paid at least $450.
Another clause will state that if she works on all her four weekly rest days each month, she has to be paid another $70, or $17.50 for each day off she works.
These two clauses will be in the contracts issued by the Indonesian government. But how far they will go to ensure Indonesian maids are compensated fairly depends on the rigour of enforcement - and the Indonesian Embassy's record in this has been patchy.
in that case domestic helpers from phillipines will see their salary soar too. especially those with previous work experience in SG.
nowadays, a "good" maid with some experience aredi commands a salary of 500pm.
Malay birth rate is 1.64 ... Indian / Chinese 1.0X :doh:
Another 10y, I won't be surprised that Chinese birth rate is 0.5
sg garmen needs to look no further than to scandinavia to see how birth rates can be improved for highly developed countries! else soon mr LKY's predictions will come true.
phantom_opera
13-08-12, 13:22
sg garmen needs to look no further than to scandinavia to see how birth rates can be improved for highly developed countries! else soon mr LKY's predictions will come true.
Nowadays, flood in Orchard then PUB will act, jam in CTE then LTA will start building NSE, MRT jam packed than DTL is built, low interest rate for 10y then MAS will act, HDB resale price peaking already then MND / ICA will act, childcare average > 1k per month only MCYS / NTUC will act
44% Singaporean male btn 30-34 are still singles, what do u think the birth rate will be 10y later?
The joke is they have SDU last time ... now they leave to private sector :doh:
Nowadays, flood in Orchard then PUB will act, jam in CTE then LTA will start building NSE, MRT jam packed than DTL is built, low interest rate for 10y then MAS will act, HDB resale price peaking already then MND / ICA will act, childcare average > 1k per month only MCYS / NTUC will act
44% Singaporean male btn 30-34 are still singles, what do u think the birth rate will be 10y later?
The joke is they have SDU last time ... now they leave to private sector :doh:
what we see today is the result of dozing on the job and lacking foresight in the past 15 yrs.
phantom_opera
13-08-12, 13:34
what we see today is the result of dozing on the job and lacking foresight in the past 15 yrs.
They can be forgiven for dozing and dreaming and attend French cooking lesson for 40k if their pay is not millions or hundreds of thousands per year
http://gangasudhan.com/blog/tolietbreak.jpg
If this is private sector, heads already rolling until dun know where already :p
in that case domestic helpers from phillipines will see their salary soar too. especially those with previous work experience in SG.
nowadays, a "good" maid with some experience aredi commands a salary of 500pm.
There alway this imbalance . ... Existing maid with more experience is getting lower then the new maid if they just decide the new starting pay ..
phantom_opera
13-08-12, 13:38
Anyone wants to consider her? I don't think she minds Laguna this kind of profile :D Save our minister from searching high n low
http://www.tremeritus.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/fengtianwei2-244x300.jpg
and I think she will agree with the following:
http://www.tremeritus.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/200px-Stop-at-Two.jpg
phantom_opera
13-08-12, 13:53
http://www.tremeritus.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/sgchart-residentsvsforeigners.png
http://www.tremeritus.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/fertilitycomparison.jpg
Let's see if he has enough money for the honeys.
Laguna don't fret. I think when your son reach a certain maturity say mid or late 30s he will have drastic change of mindset. that's when people start to feel the temporary nature of life and vulnerability that nobody gonna be here forever so just enjoy what you have now and do it. of course provided he loves kids in the first place...
and then there are some other people who are better off alone or without kids.
LKY had foresight ...but still faltered on "stop at two" and "grad mother's".
But it was a simpler time then.
GCT and LSL inherited a more complicated SG...but still it would seem that they are more 'reactive' than 'proactive' in policy making and different ministries don't seem to communicate that effectively.
Now swing back the attention to fertility after Immigration policy is met with voter anger. More stats coming our way...but this problem not fixable with adding new MRT lines.
Nowadays, flood in Orchard then PUB will act, jam in CTE then LTA will start building NSE, MRT jam packed than DTL is built, low interest rate for 10y then MAS will act, HDB resale price peaking already then MND / ICA will act, childcare average > 1k per month only MCYS / NTUC will act
44% Singaporean male btn 30-34 are still singles, what do u think the birth rate will be 10y later?
The joke is they have SDU last time ... now they leave to private sector :doh:
A recently married young male colleague once told me that the main advantage of being married is getting free sex... then I told him he was seriously mistaken... it is in fact the most expensive sex that he has to pay for and continuing paying for even if he divorces...
Let's see if he has enough money for the honeys.
Nowadays, flood in Orchard then PUB will act, jam in CTE then LTA will start building NSE, MRT jam packed than DTL is built, low interest rate for 10y then MAS will act, HDB resale price peaking already then MND / ICA will act, childcare average > 1k per month only MCYS / NTUC will act
44% Singaporean male btn 30-34 are still singles, what do u think the birth rate will be 10y later?
The joke is they have SDU last time ... now they leave to private sector :doh:
no more SDU liao? din know siah.. i tot all uni grads will get enrolled into SDU automatically?
after i married and have 2 kids, i still receive their newsletters every now and then! :cool:
A recently married young male colleague once told me that the main advantage of being married is getting free sex... then I told him he was seriously mistaken... it is in fact the most expensive sex that he has to pay for and continuing paying for even if he divorces...
dun need get married also can have free sex mah. :D
.......
I explained to him that every child is unique and we nvr compare him with the girl. But somehow, he can't get over it. Even up to today ....he still told me the same....and it is rather heart breaking....
.....
any thoughts on their inheritance yet?
older child = should get more, yet is girl = should get less
younger child = should get less, yet is boy = should get more
so at the end of the day, 50% for each child?
inheritance distribution is a headache for those who has more than 1 child.
Wait awhile and then he'll find out just how mistaken he is! :p
Refer him to Durex survey...
A recently married young male colleague once told me that the main advantage of being married is getting free sex... then I told him he was seriously mistaken... it is in fact the most expensive sex that he has to pay for and continuing paying for even if he divorces...
another incident for your comment:
three kids playing in the adult swimming pool with plastic bags over their heads and skipping ropes. you may think that their parents were not around... they were attending to a younger toddler by the pool side:doh:
Money is one issue, teaching and guiding them towards the right path is another issue, have to sacrifice a lot of times. In an early stage, when they study, you also study, in a teenage stage, when they mix with bad company, you will start to worry and will try to find all sort of ways to try to pull him back. This is mental torturing.:scared-3:
Quite cheem....
I am not seeing the angles in both the incidents especially the lift "incident"... is this a 7th month Hungry Ghost thing?
Would appreciate if you can explain please...... thank you
what is your comment to below incident:
in a crowded lift going down a young boy closest to the lift buttons press level 3 and say out loudly facing the door "i pressed level 3 because I'm going to level 3. I'm not going to level 1." and he stared blankly at the door.
another incident for your comment:
three kids playing in the adult swimming pool with plastic bags over their heads and skipping ropes. you may think that their parents were not around... they were attending to a younger toddler by the pool side
my own comment to the first incident is the boy could have just pressed level 1 for those behind who could not reach. really puzzled what's wrong with kids nowadays... or is it with the parents?
one more incident (btw all 3 incidents happened on the same day):
in an enclosed carpark lobby, a boy was swinging his bag round and round while the mother was watching him. then the boy swung the bag right into a smaller boy. the mother did nothing.:doh:
Oh I see...
But that would require the kid to assume that the people behind want to go to level 1.
And if the people behind do indeed want to go level 1, they should just say so...
1) if after saying so, the kid still refuse to press level 1, then there is something wrong with the kid.
2) but if they do not say so and expect the kid to assume their intention then there is something wrong with the people behind.
Just my opinion... cheers!
my own comment to the first incident is the boy could have just pressed level 1 for those behind who could not reach. really puzzled what's wrong with kids nowadays... or is it with the parents?
Mother is an irresponsible person.... her child will be the same in future
one more incident (btw all 3 incidents happened on the same day):
in an enclosed carpark lobby, a boy was swinging his bag round and round while the mother was watching him. then the boy swung the bag right into a smaller boy. the mother did nothing.:doh:
Wild Falcon
13-08-12, 21:39
The latest generation of kids are brought up to believe everyone is special and gifted in some way. Their parents praise them so much until they think they're all special. Most will graduate and refuse to enter the working world to do boring jobs. Most will want to pursue their "passion" but if u ask them what is their "passion", they say they still haven't discovered their passion. Or else, they will ask their parents to fund them open a cafe or F&B outlet as their "dream". Haiz. It's already happening.
another incident for your comment:
three kids playing in the adult swimming pool with plastic bags over their heads and skipping ropes. you may think that their parents were not around... they were attending to a younger toddler by the pool side:doh:
its the ME generation. its all about ME.
another incident on the day before:
a boy was repeatedly scoping up sand and throwing into the air. strong wind was blowing and the sand got into the eyes of everyone in this part o the crowded beach with children. the father noticed but continued with his smartphone until someone scolded his boy:doh:
yet another incident on the same day:
a mother and son sitting in the middle of a 10 seater table having a drink and a cake and finishing. a family with young kids were looking around for a table for over 5 mins. the mother was watching them. finally one table with 6 left and they took up the table and settled down. immediately this mother and son left:doh:
Money is one issue, teaching and guiding them towards the right path is another issue, have to sacrifice a lot of times. In an early stage, when they study, you also study, in a teenage stage, when they mix with bad company, you will start to worry and will try to find all sort of ways to try to pull him back. This is mental torturing.:scared-3:
most importantly parents just need to set good example. when kids are small they are very observant and pick up very quickly what they see and hear. you'll be surprised at their good memory of such things.
have babies is one thing but if not ready for the responsibility and also the right mindset will only bring harm to the kid and those around:2cents:
most importantly parents just need to set good example. when kids are small they are very observant and pick up very quickly what they see and hear. you'll be surprised at their good memory of such things.
have babies is one thing but if not ready for the responsibility and also the right mindset will only bring harm to the kid and those around:2cents:
IMHO, it is easier to be said than to be done, when they are young, it is easier to correct them, but when they grow older, they tends to listen more to their peers.:beats-me-man:
I have also come across 1 incident. One day, I went to my in-law's neighbour's house, thought of having some chit-chat with the owner, at that time, the father was feeding the 3 yrs old girl while the mother was watching the TV. When I reached their house, before I could step in, the little girl shouted at me for nothing. The mother just smiled and the father also smiling away saying that his daugher just woke up, not warm up yet, and then continuing feeding the girl.:doh:
have babies is one thing but if not ready for the responsibility and also the right mindset will only bring harm to the kid and those around:2cents:
Ya being a responsbile parents is very important. I had an ex-colleague, he left his children at his in-law's house and only see them once a month, he said bringing up children was just as simple as that.:doh: Luckily, his wife went down every day to see their children.
Ya being a responsbile parents is very important. I had an ex-colleague, he left his children at his in-law's house and only see them once a month, he said bringing up children was just as simple as that.:doh: Luckily, his wife went down every day to see their children.
once a month?:scared-1: dont he miss them?
Ya being a responsbile parents is very important. I had an ex-colleague, he left his children at his in-law's house and only see them once a month, he said bringing up children was just as simple as that.:doh: Luckily, his wife went down every day to see their children.
oh wow... i thought weekend parents already quite bad... now got month-end parents also?! :doh:
my ex-colleague (a weekend parent) "brought back" his daughter from his mum when his girl is 6. He had to correct lots of "bad habits" :scared-4: .
He also had to overcome the "long-distant" relationship after MIA for 6 years, in order to grow closer to his daughter... :banghead:
conclusion... not easy to be good parents... not easy does not mean not doable though.... :cool:
How about surrogate mothers?
Since some of the women either don't want to go through child-birth or limits their career path.
Can have baby and even choose to keep it a secret from work place.
Possible to increase fertility rates?
once a month?:scared-1: dont he miss them?
Not very sure, but he wanted freedom. Marry his wife was no choice, force to, you know what it is hor.:D
buttercarp
14-08-12, 14:20
another incident on the day before:
a boy was repeatedly scoping up sand and throwing into the air. strong wind was blowing and the sand got into the eyes of everyone in this part o the crowded beach with children. the father noticed but continued with his smartphone until someone scolded his boy:doh:
Talking about sand......
Many years ago when my son was younger, he used in foot to kick sand while we were at Bedok Reservoir.
It was not even crowded with a few occasional joggers passing by.
Then this stern looking woman jogger came up and crossly told him not to kick the sand.
Don't know what is her problem.
I think that jogger kicked up more sand by jogging on that sandy trail.
For babies, redefine happiness
by Ian Tan Yong Hoe Aug 14, 2012
In the 2000s, each time my wife gave birth, my friends would joke: "The Baby Bonus worked!" We had a laugh because my social circle knew that the Government's fertility policies had nothing to do with our decision to have children.
As years passed, we rolled our eyes at the money being poured into the Baby Bonus scheme without any significant result.
Now, most of my close friends who are married have at least two children. Like me, some of them are sole breadwinners; their wives gave up their careers to ensure the children are looked after well.
We made the decision with our wives even when it seemed like our pay cheques could not support it. But recently, we no longer bring up the joy of parenthood that lit up our lives when our children were babies and toddlers.
Instead, we talk about the woes with primary school education. We debate whether we should stop stressing out, trying to figure out today's education requirements, and just entrust our children to the mercy of tuition centres.
We sigh about the rising cost of living, about how it will be difficult to ferry our children around once we can no longer afford a car. Public transport may be an option, but we feel sorry for parents who have to bring babies into a crowded train.
We wonder how our children will be able to afford their first home with the current trajectory of inflation and property prices. We worry that their desire to follow their passions in future may be snuffed out by our economy's bias towards the finance sector.
We discuss our work-life balances and ask ourselves what would happen if the sole breadwinners among us lose our jobs or our health.
The most depressing topic is our children's lack of time to enjoy childhood, not because we force upon them enrichment classes or many assessment books (we don't), but because of the state of things in this pressure cooker society.
The recent news of the Government bringing ministries together to tackle Singapore's low birth rate is heartening. The failure of the Baby Bonus scheme shows that throwing money at one aspect of the problem (subsidising the cost of upbringing) will not work.
What will is for the Government and citizenry to first recognise that Singapore is becoming an unhappy place to live in with the relentless pursuit of wealth, materialism and a myopic definition of success.
For too long, young people here have been led to believe that happiness would come with a prestigious scholarship, a high-paying job, a condominium or an expensive car. Many who cannot truly afford this dream take huge loans to finance it.
If that is how happiness is defined, why would people want to give it up to go for a lifelong commitment called parenthood?
Ian Tan Yong Hoe is a father of two
http://www.todayonline.com/Voices/EDC120814-0000024/For-babies,-redefine-happiness (http://www.todayonline.com/Voices/EDC120814-0000024/For-babies,-redefine-happiness)
phantom_opera
14-08-12, 14:57
very well written ... sort of summarize all we have discussed so far ... the worst is when MOE forces their "myopic definition of success" on primary 1 kid
It is sad ... my son also no childhood, everyday homework homework test test test ... primary 1 must write picture composition while they don't even know how to write proper sentences, show and tell presentation must memorize everything like a robot... parents are forced to help them to prepare for it :banghead:
I was playful too when I was young, so sometimes I let loose my kid & not deprive them of their childhood. Now you don't hear kids saying they go longkang to catch fish anymore. :o
what an excellent article portraying todays parents who were brought up hand fed by the govt and only know how to complain or raise issues (obvious to anyone) without proactive suggestions or actions.
stop blaming govt. stop blaming society. just bring up your kids your way and don't compare!
its simple concept really but so very difficult to follow.
phantom_opera
14-08-12, 15:48
stop blaming govt. stop blaming society. just bring up your kids your way and don't compare!
its simple concept really but so very difficult to follow.
u don't understand, sometimes you have no choice but to play along with the system ... for example your son's primary 1 English teacher gives u show and tell sheet, some pictures and guiding words (MOE curriculum to train a primary 1 kid to present) and they expect you as parents, to prepare the script and train your kid to memorize 10 sentences ... do or die?? :doh:
of course in your mind you are cursing, it is supposed to be the teacher's job isn't it? but how can teacher has time for 20+ or 30 students in one class to prepare such a thing? Then whose's fault is it? MOE?
stop blaming govt. stop blaming society. just bring up your kids your way and don't compare!
its simple concept really but so very difficult to follow.
but you have not been a father yet, so how can you understand?
i would say those who have own businesses are more relaxed about their children's education. because businesses can be passed down to the children and those studious bookworms would end up working for the them.
i am not so concerned about my children's education. as long as can do basic maths enough already. can interact well with people is more important. so if business fail, can still be in sales line. what's important for them is street smarts not book smarts.
u don't understand, sometimes you have no choice but to play along with the system ... for example your son's primary 1 English teacher gives u show and tell sheet, some pictures and guiding words (MOE curriculum to train a primary 1 kid to present) and they expect you as parents, to prepare the script and train your kid to memorize 10 sentences ... do or die?? :doh:
of course in your mind you are cursing, it is supposed to be the teacher's job isn't it? but how can teacher has time for 20+ or 30 students in one class to prepare such a thing? Then whose's fault is it? MOE?
Luckily I had gone through this stage already, heng ah!:D
Now I see my friend is getting headache when his Pr 3 yrs old son has lost interest in his study.:scared-3: When this boy was young, he likes to read books, but when he started to go to Pr 1, his father kept on pouring assessment books for him to do. Worst part is, during his year-end holiday (Pr 1), his father bought the Pr 2 maths assessment books for him and asked him to do it himself. Without any guidance, how to expect a Pr 1 boy to do Pr 2 work, the problem is his father also don't know how to do as he is not educated.:doh: Mother is not a Singaporean but educated with an overseas U certificate but I don't understand why she also doesn't know how to do leh:mad:, excuse she gave was Singapore syllabus was so different from what she learned. I thought English and Maths are very general and it should be more or less the same in all countries too, somemore this is only Pr 2 work. I suggest them to sit down with the boy and accompany him with his homework but they said where got time, I see that the mother rather prefer to watch TV than to sit with her son and the father has to look after the younger one.:doh:
but you have not been a father yet, so how can you understand?
ok lor. i just :jason: :47:
ok lor. i just :jason: :47:
but i agree with you... instead of #@!%#$%$#@ find a solution... show and tell is imporant... my 2nd daughter can talk very well but flunk when it comes to show and tell because of stage fright..
no choice enrol her with speech and drama class + our encouragement, now she can just talk and talk... so i agree that there is no perfect world and system, instead of #^#^%$&^%&*%*, do something about it.;)
phantom_opera
14-08-12, 18:07
but i agree with you... instead of #@!%#$%$#@ find a solution... show and tell is imporant... my 2nd daughter can talk very well but flunk when it comes to show and tell because of stage fright..
no choice enrol her with speech and drama class + our encouragement, now she can just talk and talk... so i agree that there is no perfect world and system, instead of #^#^%$&^%&*%*, do something about it.;)
If education system need u to engage outside help, it has failed
I agree with @Carbuncle too.
The truth is kids by themselves are not stressed... its the parents who stress them. Parents expect too much
but i agree with you... instead of #@!%#$%$#@ find a solution... show and tell is imporant... my 2nd daughter can talk very well but flunk when it comes to show and tell because of stage fright..
no choice enrol her with speech and drama class + our encouragement, now she can just talk and talk... so i agree that there is no perfect world and system, instead of #^#^%$&^%&*%*, do something about it.;)
Then don't engage outside help...
Singaporean parents engage all kinds of private tuition not to cope but to get ahead...
If education system need u to engage outside help, it has failed
phantom_opera
14-08-12, 18:17
Then don't engage outside help...
Singaporean parents engage all kinds of private tuition not to cope but to get ahead...
I was in response to stl67 ... you can tell him that :p
btw, do you expect parents to help to prepare show and tell for the kid?... this is just tip of the iceberg only ... my son's SAP school expects him to be able to recognize and read 2000 Chinese words in primary 1 / primary 2, the curriculum is jointly developed with a China primary school ...what is your suggestion since you can't control the principal?
of course, then u will say dun send to SAP school, just send to the school that has lowest PSLE score :banghead:
If your child is in a high-achievement school, you can expect a high achievement curriculum.
You have to decide whether it is suitable for him, or better still, you can let him decide for himself...
I was in response to stl67 ... you can tell him that :p
btw, do you expect parents to help to prepare show and tell for the kid?... this is just tip of the iceberg only ... my son's SAP school expects him to be able to recognize and read 2000 Chinese words in primary 1 / primary 2, the curriculum is jointly developed with a China primary school ...what is your suggestion?
of course, then u will say dun send to SAP school, just send to the school that has lowest PSLE score :banghead:
phantom_opera
14-08-12, 18:30
If your child is in a high-achievement school, you can expect a high achievement curriculum.
You have to decide whether it is suitable for him, or better still, you can let him decide for himself...
the school is only ranked #3 in the district based on PSLE result brother .. i cannot imagine if it is ranked #1
and I have one friend, his son entered a neighborhood school, first day primary 1, the teacher asked: "those who does not have a tuition, raise your hand !!!" ... after a few months, the teacher called in the parents ... "I have given up on your child, please engage outside help"
:banghead: :tsk-tsk:
many years later, 2nd son scored a D in normal Chinese, sent to MindChamp because guarantee can improve one grade but so bloody expensive, bo pian send, sure enough got C ... :scared-4: :tsk-tsk: :banghead:
First of all I concede that the education system has much to improve on.
But it is my opinion that parents anguish and anxiety over the academic performance of their children is misplaced. Anger with the system is also unproductive. If there is any comfort Hong Kong is not much better. China, India, Japan and South Korea is much worse... cram schools are the norm
Singaporeans do tend to complain and whine a lot...
Nike says it best... Just Do It.
the school is only ranked #3 in the district based on PSLE result brother .. i cannot imagine if it is ranked #1
and I have one friend, his son entered a neighborhood school, first day primary 1, the teacher asked: "those who does not have a tuition, raise your hand !!!" ... after a few months, the teacher called in the parents ... "I have given up on your child, please engage outside help"
:banghead: :tsk-tsk:
many years later, 2nd son scored a D in normal Chinese, sent to MindChamp because guarantee can improve one grade but so bloody expensive, bo pian send, sure enough got C ... :scared-4: :tsk-tsk: :banghead:
phantom_opera
14-08-12, 20:53
First of all I concede that the education system has much to improve on.
But it is my opinion that parents anguish and anxiety over the academic performance of their children is misplaced. Anger with the system is also unproductive. If there is any comfort Hong Kong is not much better. China, India, Japan and South Korea is much worse... cram schools are the norm
Singaporeans do tend to complain and whine a lot...
Nike says it best... Just Do It.
Just do it, I begin to suspect u are MIW lol
You say it like its a bad thing ie..."to be MIW" ....haha... I guess to some it is almost a crime to be MIW.
Anyway, I am far from being a MIW.... I am just a very practical and realistic parent. I just find Singaporeans are losing the "Can Do" attitude... something we are lacking compared to say, Hong Kong. Of course, I expect people like you will attribute it to gahmen manipulation...haha...
Btw, I am just speaking as a parent of 2 kids that have gone through the whole 9 yards of the Singapore education system. I don't mean to judge or cast aspersions on your opinion... apologies if any offence caused, I hope you can recognise that this is all just TCSS on the internet...
Just do it, I begin to suspect u are MIW lol
phantom_opera
14-08-12, 22:08
You say it like its a bad thing ie..."to be MIW" ....haha... I guess to some it is almost a crime to be MIW.
Anyway, I am far from being a MIW.... I am just a very practical and realistic parent. I just find Singaporeans are losing the "Can Do" attitude... something we are lacking compared to say, Hong Kong. Of course, I expect people like you will attribute it to gahmen manipulation...haha...
Btw, I am just speaking as a parent of 2 kids that have gone through the whole 9 yards of the Singapore education system. I don't mean to judge or cast aspersions on your opinion... apologies if any offence caused, I hope you can recognise that this is all just TCSS on the internet...
the fact that u and I are TCSS in property forum means hoping for property quick gain ... less productive towards economy ... dreamers already ... still can do :spliff: ??
I feel the season for quick property gains won't be around for a while due to the CMs... must "Can Do" in other areas liao.... anybody bought corn futures?
the fact that u and I are TCSS in property forum means hoping for property quick gain ... less productive towards economy ... dreamers already ... still can do :spliff: ??
since some bros here agree with my point of they, I shall continue to share. I never once had tuition and never believe it is necessary. my parents basically left me to study on my own. they show their concern by occasional bird nest soup during exam periods that's all. since I always got good grades they never needed to nag me or chase me.
my point is, gauge your kids aptitude and ability and let them developed to their respective potential. no point forcing a grade A out of an average kid. something will give. health, relationship, self esteem especially. I come across many who are unable to overcome low self esteem even into adulthood due to the parents continually belittling and comparing their kids. my mother loves doing that to me but I have enough maturity to differentiate well meaning concern executed the correct way vs the wrong way.
since some bros here agree with my point of they, I shall continue to share. I never once had tuition and never believe it is necessary. my parents basically left me to study on my own. they show their concern by occasional bird nest soup during exam periods that's all. since I always got good grades they never needed to nag me or chase me.
my point is, gauge your kids aptitude and ability and let them developed to their respective potential. no point forcing a grade A out of an average kid. something will give. health, relationship, self esteem especially. I come across many who are unable to overcome low self esteem even into adulthood due to the parents continually belittling and comparing their kids. my mother loves doing that to me but I have enough maturity to differentiate well meaning concern executed the correct way vs the wrong way.
That I truly agree, actually there are 3 types of kids:-
1) Know how to study themselves, parents need not worry :banana:
2) Need to push type, only when the parents push, then they will excel:tongue4:
3) Normal type, no matter how hard you push, their results are still so so :rocking-the-decks:
What's with the education system nowadays? There was no such thing as parent volunteer during my time and I did not have tuition throughout. I did not go nursery and did the normal PAP kindergarten.
How come nowadays so much extra things one?
:beats-me-man:
What's with the education system nowadays? There was no such thing as parent volunteer during my time and I did not have tuition throughout. I did not go nursery and did the normal PAP kindergarten.
How come nowadays so much extra things one?
:beats-me-man:This system has certainly evolved over the years. Now can also be rejected for PV. My wife kana rejected liao!!! Anyway, the entry phases has been there for a long time. Its just the extra extra which is killing many!!! :scared-4: The consolation is our MIW finally heard the citizen's lamentations and five absolute priority to citizens... :cheers5:
I was in response to stl67 ... you can tell him that :p
btw, do you expect parents to help to prepare show and tell for the kid?... this is just tip of the iceberg only ... my son's SAP school expects him to be able to recognize and read 2000 Chinese words in primary 1 / primary 2, the curriculum is jointly developed with a China primary school ...what is your suggestion since you can't control the principal?
of course, then u will say dun send to SAP school, just send to the school that has lowest PSLE score :banghead:
compare to our times, the education system is a lot lot tougher.. i remember that i hardly study...
now the standard has raised ridiculously high but is there anything we can do.. some choose to migrate, some like me have no choice but to go along with it..
but i agree that the primary school education is very very tough...
compare to our times, the education system is a lot lot tougher.. i remember that i hardly study...
now the standard has raised ridiculously high but is there anything we can do.. some choose to migrate, some like me have no choice but to go along with it..
but i agree that the primary school education is very very tough...
the sciences they do in primary school is quite "advance"...
http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/syllabuses/sciences/files/science-primary-2008.pdf
sometimes i ask my spouse, learn all these got use meh?
go to work, stomach pain just go toilet la...
no need to know / care how the whole body system works rite? :scared-2: :banghead:
phantom_opera
15-08-12, 10:05
compare to our times, the education system is a lot lot tougher.. i remember that i hardly study...
now the standard has raised ridiculously high but is there anything we can do.. some choose to migrate, some like me have no choice but to go along with it..
but i agree that the primary school education is very very tough...
Exactly, I have known of migration cases many due to failing Chinese. Just do it won't work because everything it is either a C or D grade which will pull down your PSLE score to 200. Of course some ppl will say why worry, 200 can enter secondary school what. :doh: JUST DO IT :-P
The primary education system today is increasing favor the rich as being rich you can have 4 maids, 4 private tutors (one subject one) for your kid and still can enjoy life ...:mad: MIWs with 3/4 kids will not feel the pain ... they are living in the ivory tower
I rather be the cream of the crop in a lousy school than a nobody in a good school. :rolleyes:
phantom_opera
15-08-12, 10:43
I rather be the cream of the crop in a lousy school than a nobody in a good school. :rolleyes:
top schools teachers will ask you not to go to tuition (because they are better than tuition teachers), lousy school will push you to go tuition (because otherwise cannot meet KPI, no bonus)
:doh:
Detached from the ground bro ...
The primary education system today is increasing favor the rich as being rich you can have 4 maids, 4 private tutors (one subject one) for your kid and still can enjoy life ...:mad: MIWs with 3/4 kids will not feel the pain ... they are living in the ivory tower
You are mistaken bro ...top schools almost insist all pupils go for extra lesson outside of school so that they can race through the syallbus or teach extra material. They literally find out who doesn't have tuition.
top schools teachers will ask you not to go to tuition (because they are better than tuition teachers), lousy school will push you to go tuition (because otherwise cannot meet KPI, no bonus)
:doh:
phantom_opera
15-08-12, 10:54
You are mistaken bro ...top schools almost insist all pupils go for extra lesson outside of school so that they can race through the syallbus or teach extra material. They literally find out who doesn't have tuition.
LKY once said entry into primary school is NOT meritocratic but primary school itself is ... I think this again must be discounted :beats-me-man:
I rather be the cream of the crop in a lousy school than a nobody in a good school. :rolleyes:
fish amongst the sharks? or shark amongst fishes? ;)
phantom_opera
15-08-12, 10:59
fish amongst the sharks? or shark amongst fishes? ;)
azeoprop is the shark of course ... he is landlord :cheers1:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Hrhw5nbcPEA/TaB_CkjEPYI/AAAAAAAAA7Y/3i8LzDzOGB4/s1600/finding+nemo.jpg
compare to our times, the education system is a lot lot tougher.. i remember that i hardly study...
now the standard has raised ridiculously high but is there anything we can do.. some choose to migrate, some like me have no choice but to go along with it..
but i agree that the primary school education is very very tough...
yeah, i remember i was quite a mediocre (or at best average) student (can't get into EM1) during primary school. never fancied tuition also so refused to attend tuition. but father keeps dumping assessment books on me which i refused to do also. :D :cheers1:
but i was a late bloomer and results starting coming in when i reach sec school (without all the stress of assessment books. heng ah)... i recall one of my classmates then, study and worked damn hard and went for lots of tuition but still performs very poorly (and he was damn upset and deflated). end of day, cramming may not be the best way out? :cool:
so the thing is, not all children will bloom in primary school. so it beggars belief why primary schools seem to be adamant that kids should be judged since primary levels and claims "i give up on your child" if they never attend tuition.
for me, i will only send my kids to enrichment classes that they enjoy (like speech and drama, painting etc) and will certainly not send for academic tuition. otherwise, where's the childhood? where's the fun? :cheers4:
Something I'm still trying to reconcile is the Primary school Math syllabus. They insist on teaching the part modelling method only for the secondary school math teachers to say students are not allowed to use part modelling method.... :doh:
LKY once said entry into primary school is NOT meritocratic but primary school itself is ... I think this again must be discounted :beats-me-man:
so entry into Nanyang Primary (or any of the other GEPs) not meritocratic meh? mr Lee bluff who leh. :D :rolleyes:
Evolution.
First was SAP...so chinese tuition was the way. Then Assessment books.
Then got GEP...parents scramble for that when it's meant for inborn maths/english natural talent.
How many 'normal' wage warning parents can afford all these plus lap-tops etc?
Of course less children means more resources for them to compete on slightly more equal ground than rich kids.
Now normal people figured that out, they want higher fertility rates?
Do you really think the new migrants won't figure this out in due time?
Same problem, different time only.
LKY once said entry into primary school is NOT meritocratic but primary school itself is ... I think this again must be discounted :beats-me-man:
Something I'm still trying to reconcile is the Primary school Math syllabus. They insist on teaching the part modelling method only for the secondary school math teachers to say students are not allowed to use part modelling method.... :doh:
nowadays primary school math got multiple choice not? if got, i always fancied the "throw dice to get answer" method. :D :hell-hath-no-fury:
yeah, i remember i was quite a mediocre (or at best average) student (can't get into EM1) during primary school. never fancied tuition also so refused to attend tuition. but father keeps dumping assessment books on me which i refused to do also. :D :cheers1:
but i was a late bloomer and results starting coming in when i reach sec school (without all the stress of assessment books. heng ah)... i recall one of my classmates then, study and worked damn hard and went for lots of tuition but still performs very poorly (and he was damn upset and deflated). end of day, cramming may not be the best way out? :cool:
so the thing is, not all children will bloom in primary school. so it beggars belief why primary schools seem to be adamant that kids should be judged since primary levels and claims "i give up on your child" if they never attend tuition.
for me, i will only send my kids to enrichment classes that they enjoy (like speech and drama, painting etc) and will certainly not send for academic tuition. otherwise, where's the childhood? where's the fun? :cheers4:Think I'm also a super late bloomer... I didn't even know I was sitting for a major exam in PSLE. I can't remember taking the exam. I only remembered my mum asked me to go and collect my result... I didn't study much I guess!!! :p
nowadays primary school math got multiple choice not? if got, i always fancied the "throw dice to get answer" method. :D :hell-hath-no-fury:Can use for science paper..:D
Think I'm also a super late bloomer... I didn't even know I was sitting for a major exam in PSLE. I can't remember taking the exam. I only remembered my mum asked me to go and collect my result... I didn't study much I guess!!! :p
haha high five bro. :D
:D Like that.
True story of what happened with my son.
1) I told him when in doubt it's always #2 or (B). He knows I'm playing.
2) And we always joke when he does well that it's a 'fluke-out'.
Once when he was asked by the teacher, he replied that he 'fluked' the test...and by answering with #2 on the multiple choice when in doubt. Teacher was not please..and so was his mother....
nowadays primary school math got multiple choice not? if got, i always fancied the "throw dice to get answer" method. :D :hell-hath-no-fury:
:D Like that.
True story of what happened with my son.
1) I told him when in doubt it's always #2 or (B). He knows I'm playing.
2) And we always joke when he does well that it's a 'fluke-out'.
Once when he was asked by the teacher, he replied that he 'fluked' the test...and by answering with #2 on the multiple choice when in doubt. Teacher was not please..and so was his mother....
your wifey gotch ask u to kneel on durian husks not... :scared-3: :D
No but the kid was laughing when I had to hold/pull my ears and apologise for telling the kid all these things.
I really thought he'd have more discretion..they don't teach that in school
Back to the point, how to raise fertility rates like this? Even the kids know not to bring babies into this type of 'life'.
I propose surrogates or clonning...
your wifey gotch ask u to kneel on durian husks not... :scared-3: :D
No but the kid was laughing when I had to hold/pull my ears and apologise for telling the kid all these things.
I really thought he'd have more discretion..they don't teach that in school
that's the thing abt kids... they do not lie! :D :doh:
:cheers4:
No but the kid was laughing when I had to hold/pull my ears and apologise for telling the kid all these things.
I really thought he'd have more discretion..they don't teach that in school
Back to the point, how to raise fertility rates like this? Even the kids know not to bring babies into this type of 'life'.
I propose surrogates or clonning...
i think Ho Ching already had a headstart with cloning... that's what the biopolis was built for right? oops... :doh: :D
that's the thing abt kids... they do not lie! :D :doh:
:cheers4:
nowadays kids very smart one.. know how to lie..
my son very diplomatic even though he's only 3. in front of me, he says i love daddy (and hates mummy).. in front of mummy he says i love mummy (and hates daddy). :p
haha high five bro. :DHigh five... :cheers4:
nowadays kids very smart one.. know how to lie..
my son very diplomatic even though he's only 3. in front of me, he says i love daddy (and hates mummy).. in front of mummy he says i love mummy (and hates daddy). :pMy kids don't even say love or hate... Lol...
I am early bloomer. stellar results in primary and high school. special stream. but alas now good for nothing.... .. .
I am early bloomer. stellar results in primary and high school. special stream. but alas now good for nothing.... .. .
Still early bloomer mah, others retire at 60+ while u did it at 30-40+. Usian Bolt
nowadays kids very smart one.. know how to lie..
my son very diplomatic even though he's only 3. in front of me, he says i love daddy (and hates mummy).. in front of mummy he says i love mummy (and hates daddy). :p
When I first discovered my kid was lying, I don't whether to feel upset or happy. :banghead:
hopefully won't die early
When I first discovered my kid was lying, I don't whether to feel upset or happy. :banghead:Why are u happy when your kid is lying?
Why are u happy when your kid is lying?
at least the kid is quite "streetsmart", knowing that there are instances when he should tell a (white) lie? :cool:
Why are u happy when your kid is lying?
Trying to wriggle his way out of a situation, at least he is thinking or trying to outsmart an adult :o . Gave him a stern warning.
My friend's daughter (Pr 4). whenever she can't finish her homework, she will tell her mother that she had a stomache, so that she needs not go to school:doh: . One day, she called her mother from school saying that she had a stomache and her mother had to apply for a leave to bring her home. The fact is whether it is true that her daughter has a stomache or not, no one can tells, only her daughter knows.:mad:
Stomachache is the easiest to get MC from doctor. :D
hmmm...my ex-colleague's kid has this problem too, always finding excuses & look depressed in the morning, end up seeing a psychiatris.
"The fear of going to school can be very painful for children and adolescents who are not yet mature enough to understand and analyze their emotions. Sometimes children fear school for valid reasons: they may suffer from teasing or other forms of bullying that cause mental anguish and tremendous sadness. In some cases, children can feel persecuted for things they cannot control while they are on school grounds......
Pressure To Succeed Can Trigger This Phobia
Some fear of school is not because of social difficulties or bullying. Often, it comes as a result of academic stress. Now, more than ever, children and adults who attend schools feel competition and pressure."
http://www.fearofstuff.com/humans/fear-of-going-to-school/ (http://www.fearofstuff.com/humans/fear-of-going-to-school/)
I know I'm unhappy when I can catch him ...means he's not good at it!
When I first discovered my kid was lying, I don't whether to feel upset or happy. :banghead:
I know I'm unhappy when I can catch him ...means he's not good at it!
haha...tt's a gd one. We been young once, pan chance a bit.:cheers2:
iwantgizmos
16-08-12, 13:53
Interesting forum.
We must learn to be more romantic. :D :D :D
Source: http://www.straitstimes.com/premium/forum-letters/story/do-malay-husbands-know-something-the-chinese-dont-20120815
Do Malay husbands know something the Chinese don't?
Published on Aug 15, 2012
THE total fertility rate of Malay Singaporeans last year was 1.64, followed by Indian Singaporeans at 1.09 and Chinese Singaporeans at 1.08 ("Get married, have babies"; Sunday).
Most incentives - maternity leave, maid levies and discounted taxes - are aimed at women, and may be working better for the Malays than for the Chinese.
Perhaps the Government should find out why Malay women are more willing to have babies.
Are Malay men more romantic, persuasive and less stressed out by life's perceived demands than Chinese men?
Do Malay couples have a more viable network of caregivers?
I would like to believe that a man with confidence is attractive to women. He can better influence his wife to have more babies, especially if he believes he can adequately provide for the family.
How can Chinese Singaporean men attain more confidence? In this modern age, the ability to provide translates into how much a man earns and his job security.
Greater confidence may well encourage Singaporean men to take the plunge earlier, and increase the potential for having babies sooner.
My mother neber pan-chan, thats why I so pro in lying ...
Training mah...in case he want to consider become Property Agent...
haha...tt's a gd one. We been young once, pan chance a bit.:cheers2:
IMHO being good at lying does not translate to being streetsmart and vice versa.
at least the kid is quite "streetsmart", knowing that there are instances when he should tell a (white) lie? :cool:
"She stressed that Malays do not dismiss the importance of career progression and financial security, but said simply that they typically value their families much more.
"So having a family isn't seen as a burden for most of us -- we see children as a 'blessing from God', even if they might be unplanned during a marriage," she said."
http://sg.sports.yahoo.com/news/why-are-malays-having-more-babies-.html (http://sg.sports.yahoo.com/news/why-are-malays-having-more-babies-.html)
My malay friend said the same thing years ago.
IMHO being good at lying does not translate to being streetsmart and vice versa.
imho, knowing when to lie is definitely going to make a person more streetsmart vs someone who only tells the truth all the time regardless of circumstances.
imagine one ah beng ask ur son: diao si mi diao? ai pa ah?
then your son says: looking at your ugly tattoos... fight is for uncivilised imbeciles so i won't fight u.
u guess wad will happen leh? :D
of cos above is exaggeration lar. :cheers2:
this is 2012. you sure the article came out few days ago?
in this day and age men no longer seen as breadwinner. or sole earner if need to be exact. in fact most are happy to take the equally if not more challenging role of keeping house.
"She stressed that Malays do not dismiss the importance of career progression and financial security, but said simply that they typically value their families much more.
"So having a family isn't seen as a burden for most of us -- we see children as a 'blessing from God', even if they might be unplanned during a marriage," she said."
http://sg.sports.yahoo.com/news/why-are-malays-having-more-babies-.html (http://sg.sports.yahoo.com/news/why-are-malays-having-more-babies-.html)
My malay friend said the same thing years ago.
from TOday
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC120816-0000097/Drug-situation-remains-challenging-despite-dip-in-arrests
The number of Chinese and Indian drug abusers arrested declined by 14.9 per cent and 6.4 per cent respectively in the first half of the year compared to the same period last year. The number of Malay drug abusers arrested increased by 6.8 per cent to 896.
is drug abuse related to birth rate?
higher rate of drug abuse translate to higher birth rate and vice versa.
Haha... I think anybody who put themselves in a position they where kena "beo" by Ah Bengs then not very street smart liao... surely will get into trouble no matter what lies they tell.
imho, knowing when to lie is definitely going to make a person more streetsmart vs someone who only tells the truth all the time regardless of circumstances.
imagine one ah beng ask ur son: diao si mi diao? ai pa ah?
then your son says: looking at your ugly tattoos... fight is for uncivilised imbeciles so i won't fight u.
u guess wad will happen leh? :D
of cos above is exaggeration lar. :cheers2:
Incidently wrt "street smarts"... when somebody is considered book smart it is implied that the person is not street smart or vice versa.
But judging from the last few pages of this thread, that's what most people think..... however I find this to be untrue, you can be book smart and street smart at the same time.
Most people think that the students in the top schools are nerdy bookworms.... again untrue
from TOday
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC120816-0000097/Drug-situation-remains-challenging-despite-dip-in-arrests
The number of Chinese and Indian drug abusers arrested declined by 14.9 per cent and 6.4 per cent respectively in the first half of the year compared to the same period last year. The number of Malay drug abusers arrested increased by 6.8 per cent to 896.
is drug abuse related to birth rate?
higher rate of drug abuse translate to higher birth rate and vice versa.Like that also can co-relate??? U good lah! :cheers1:
phantom_opera
16-08-12, 21:49
from TOday
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC120816-0000097/Drug-situation-remains-challenging-despite-dip-in-arrests
The number of Chinese and Indian drug abusers arrested declined by 14.9 per cent and 6.4 per cent respectively in the first half of the year compared to the same period last year. The number of Malay drug abusers arrested increased by 6.8 per cent to 896.
is drug abuse related to birth rate?
higher rate of drug abuse translate to higher birth rate and vice versa.
your black humor not everybody can understand :p
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/pto/lowres/pton4l.jpg
is drug abuse related to birth rate?
higher rate of drug abuse translate to higher birth rate and vice versa.
possible in jkt, ecstasy is easily available at discos n the local meimeis keep popping them :p
The fact is, not all the couples that married can conceived leh.:scared-3:
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