View Full Version : Single income family (with kids)
Most families in singapore are on dual income.. with both husband and wife working while kids are handed over to either in-laws, or nannies, or childcare or domestic helpers...
however, sometimes the busy work lifestyle can be a drain on the welfare of the kids as they do not get to spend quality time with parents... especially when so many of our generation need to work OT and sometimes over weekends too (plus business trips to cover the region).
so the question is.. at what point should one of the parent quit their jobs and just be a stay home parent to provide the best care for kids (provided they want to)? :confused:
so, for an average family (with 1 car, 1 house and 1 or 2 kids), what will you believe to be a comfortable single income level before one of the parents can devote full time to taking care of household and kids?
phantom_opera
23-07-12, 13:09
with 1 car (assuming a cheap car), running expense is 1k per month min
with 1 maid, running expense is 1k per month also
with N kids, running expenses is N x 1k per month, and you need roughly 300 X N kids for insurance with single income family
I estimate, 8k per month family income is barely enough to serve a family of 3 kids, with car, maid etc
u tell me when u are ready :tongue3:
with 1 car (assuming a cheap car), running expense is 1k per month min
with 1 maid, running expense is 1k per month also
with N kids, running expenses is N x 1k per month, and you need roughly 300 X N kids for insurance with single income family
I estimate, 8k per month family income is barely enough to serve a family of 3 kids, with car, maid etc
u tell me when u are ready :tongue3:
different family has different requirements. so really down to individual i guess? just to share mine:
car: 2.5k (loan payment, insurance, petrol, erp, parking, road tax etc)
insurance: 2.5k
household: 2.5k (utilities, loan payment, msct etc)
family allowance: 2.5k (for christians can include tilthing)
part time maid: 500
2 kids: 5k (food, healthcare, toys, sch fees etc etc)
food: 2k
income taxes: 2.5k
so to me, only if either me or my wife earns near 20k/mth, will i consider one of us retiring to take full care of our kids. :o :(
different family has different requirements. so really down to individual i guess? just to share mine:
car: 2.5k (loan payment, insurance, petrol, erp, parking, road tax etc)
insurance: 2.5k
household: 2.5k (utilities, loan payment, msct etc)
family allowance: 2.5k (for christians can include tilthing)
part time maid: 500
2 kids: 5k (food, healthcare, toys, sch fees etc etc)
food: 2k
income taxes: 2.5k
so to me, only if either me or my wife earns near 20k/mth, will i consider one of us retiring to take full care of our kids. :o :(
having said that, if i'm willing to sacrifice abit of enjoyment for the privilege of spending more time with kids.. then the below will suffice:
car: 1.8k (drive less, pay less erp, dun park at work)
insurance: 2.5k
household: 2.5k (utilities, loan payment, msct etc)
family allowance: 1k (no need pay relatives for babysitting)
part time maid: 0 (ownself jagar)
2 kids: 3k (more homecooked food, more home schooling)
food: 1k (more homecooked food, less drinking!)
income taxes: 2.5k
so technically, 15k can be enough also. provided willing to downgrade lifestyle... but otherwise, back to rat race and running the hamster wheel. :(
phantom_opera
23-07-12, 13:26
Your paid too much for insurance
Go and see a financial consultant and cut it to 500 per month :2cents:
Your paid too much for insurance
Go and see a financial consultant and cut it to 500 per month :2cents:
cos i think i may die soon. :p
no lah, got endowment plans also.. for kids. tat's why mthly quantum abit high.
Regulators
23-07-12, 13:37
However much one earns, singapore is the wrong place to bring up children.
just to share.. i've a neighbour who has 5 kids (with another one coming along) and he owns a car (a real necessity with his large brood) and a bike (to travel to work).
in his case, i think being a single income family is a necessity (rather than a choice) as he needs his wife to help take care of the kids. else the childcare fees alone will be outrageous!
he's a really nice guy but sometimes i wonder how he manages to get by. i'm quite sure he ain't got a high paying job so sometimes quite worrying... wonder if there's a social net to help these folks who's contributing to singapore's TFR but may have financial difficulties. sigh.
This is really subjective as it depends a lot of your family's "needs" or "wants". I have seen families survive on one breadwinner's income of $2k to $3k per month with 2 preschool kids. Of course, that means:
1. no car
2. no enrichment classes
3. cheapest kindergarten available
4. family outings: free open spaces e.g. park and playground
5. family vacations: Malaysia
6. eat in most of the time
7. basic insurance coverage only
phantom_opera
23-07-12, 13:43
Judging from your monthly expenses, u are already in upper middle class who is supposed to stay in condo (median monthly family income including employer cpf about 14k+)
If people like you cannot let your wife retire to have better bonding with your kids ... I think something is seriously wrong with Singapore model :spliff2:
There is certain thing money can't buy :2cents:
However much one earns, singapore is the wrong place to bring up children.
while i'm like the typical sgean who likes to grumble and complain, but i still feel singapore is a gd place to bring up kids. at least for the first 12 years of their life.
climate, general safety (although this is getting bad with more reported incidents), bilingual and structured education plus of cos the family support and network are key points to contribute to a kid's well being.
it's no coincidence folks like jim rogers, jet li etc chose to take up sg citizenship for their kids... so let's give singapore some credit where it's due. although indeed there's also many other valid points to consider (i.e. lack of creative learning, pressure cooker).
This is really subjective as it depends a lot of your family's "needs" or "wants". I have seen families survive on one breadwinner's income of $2k to $3k per month with 2 preschool kids. Of course, that means:
1. no car
2. no enrichment classes
3. cheapest kindergarten available
4. family outings: free open spaces e.g. park and playground
5. family vacations: Malaysia
6. eat in most of the time
7. basic insurance coverage only
i guess at the end of the day, we will also want to have some quality lifestyle.. else kinda defeat the purpose of having 1 parent stay home to take care of kids.. i think certain things are still important and should not be sacrificed just so single income becomes a possibility..
i.e. healthy food, good pre-schools, comfortable living expenses. at 3k single income will really be a super stretch to provide a good quality life to family and kids.. juz my thoughts.. :o
i guess at the end of the day, we will also want to have some quality lifestyle.. else kinda defeat the purpose of having 1 parent stay home to take care of kids.. i think certain things are still important and should not be sacrificed just so single income becomes a possibility..
i.e. healthy food, good pre-schools, comfortable living expenses. at 3k single income will really be a super stretch to provide a good quality life to family and kids.. juz my thoughts.. :o
Again, what is a quality life is subjective. My friends quoted in my example don't seem to "suffer" any less because of a "lower quality of life". It is not as if they are living on the streets, eat food scraps from the dump and wear torn clothes.
They are a happy family.
Judging from your monthly expenses, u are already in upper middle class who is supposed to stay in condo (median monthly family income including employer cpf about 14k+)
If people like you cannot let your wife retire to have better bonding with your kids ... I think something is seriously wrong with Singapore model :spliff2:
There is certain thing money can't buy :2cents:
i belong to the sandwiched class.. neither here nor there.
i have been toying with the thought of asking my wife to quit and just take care of kids.. but end up it seems too much of a risk plus quality of life may have to suffer by quite a fair bit. alot of things tat we take for granted now will have to be changed. and that's not something my wife is willing to take (although i dun mind).
around me, most (if not all) of my peers are still on dual income with both parents slogging hard.. so far in my career, only my bosses (senior mgmt) can afford to have their wives be stay home. even then, one of my ex-bosses, find it really tough to handle the finances (expensive cca for kids, overseas vacation etc) and his wife is now part-timing as a ppty agent! and tat's for a senior MD!
so, around me, it seems that unless one earns say 25-30k a mth, single income could be a tough ask without compromising quality of living.
but on the other spectrum, i do see many other cases where pple are happily living on single income on lesser. question is: is the sacrifice in quality worth it? or will it be better to sacrifice kids-bonding for better quality of life for all? :doh:
Again, what is a quality life is subjective. My friends quoted in my example don't seem to "suffer" any less because of a "lower quality of life". It is not as if they are living on the streets, eat food scraps from the dump and wear torn clothes.
They are a happy family.
ok.. just tat i will certainly find it hard to jagar on 2-3k a mth.
anyway, there used to be a report finding tat states that the peak of happiness is when one earns ard 6-7k. anything less infers lesser happiness index among the surveyed.. but anything more than 7k doesn't infer greater happiness (law of diminishing marginal returns).
question is.. where does this "peak happiness" index apply for different individuals? for your friend, i guess around 3k is a happy index point. :cheers1:
i belong to the sandwiched class.. neither here nor there.
i have been toying with the thought of asking my wife to quit and just take care of kids.. but end up it seems too much of a risk plus quality of life may have to suffer by quite a fair bit. alot of things tat we take for granted now will have to be changed. and that's not something my wife is willing to take (although i dun mind).
around me, most (if not all) of my peers are still on dual income with both parents slogging hard.. so far in my career, only my bosses (senior mgmt) can afford to have their wives be stay home. even then, one of my ex-bosses, find it really tough to handle the finances (expensive cca for kids, overseas vacation etc) and his wife is now part-timing as a ppty agent! and tat's for a senior MD!
so, around me, it seems that unless one earns say 25-30k a mth, single income could be a tough ask without compromising quality of living.
but on the other spectrum, i do see many other cases where pple are happily living on single income on lesser. question is: is the sacrifice in quality worth it? or will it be better to sacrifice kids-bonding for better quality of life for all? :doh:
Of course if you want expensive enrichment classes and overseas vacations for your kids and family, you have to slog hard.
But that doesn't mean families who don't send their kids to expensive enrichment classes and overseas vacations have a "lower" quality of life. It is a matter of priorities and getting used to having less material goods.
I am an early childhood professional and I have been training preschool teachers for the last 5 years. I have yet to come across research that says expensive enrichment classes are necessary for upper middle income family to give your child a head start in life (whatever that head start means).
phantom_opera
23-07-12, 14:07
i belong to the sandwiched class.. neither here nor there.
i have been toying with the thought of asking my wife to quit and just take care of kids.. but end up it seems too much of a risk plus quality of life may have to suffer by quite a fair bit. alot of things tat we take for granted now will have to be changed. and that's not something my wife is willing to take (although i dun mind).
around me, most (if not all) of my peers are still on dual income with both parents slogging hard.. so far in my career, only my bosses (senior mgmt) can afford to have their wives be stay home. even then, one of my ex-bosses, find it really tough to handle the finances (expensive cca for kids, overseas vacation etc) and his wife is now part-timing as a ppty agent! and tat's for a senior MD!
so, around me, it seems that unless one earns say 25-30k a mth, single income could be a tough ask without compromising quality of living.
but on the other spectrum, i do see many other cases where pple are happily living on single income on lesser. question is: is the sacrifice in quality worth it? or will it be better to sacrifice kids-bonding for better quality of life for all? :doh:
25-30k per month, that is MD/CEO pay ... your quality of life threshold is simply too high, let's see other seniors in this forum agree with this or not :)
25-30k per month, that is MD/CEO pay ... your quality of life threshold is simply too high, let's see other seniors in this forum agree with this or not :)
i'm just sharing what seems to be the case for the single income families in my career.. only the senior MDs and CEOs. while the rest of my peers are all on dual income.
will be interested to find out what is the level that others in this forum think it to be (regardless of whether you are senior or not). :spliff:
Chillyred888
23-07-12, 14:16
Your paid too much for insurance
Go and see a financial consultant and cut it to 500 per month :2cents:
Mine is close to that amount for ins also, not considered much as i got factor in Retirement planning as well
What is your income then?
Of course if you want expensive enrichment classes and overseas vacations for your kids and family, you have to slog hard.
But that doesn't mean families who don't send their kids to expensive enrichment classes and overseas vacations have a "lower" quality of life. It is a matter of priorities and getting used to having less material goods.
I am an early childhood professional and I have been training preschool teachers for the last 5 years. I have yet to come across research that says expensive enrichment classes are necessary for upper middle income family to give your child a head start in life (whatever that head start means).
alamak, how come i quote my ex boss lifestyle but u assume i expect the same? :confused:
so... how much does the pre school classes (that your students teach at) charge?
so... are you a single income family too? ;)
phantom_opera
23-07-12, 14:18
Mine is close to that amount for ins also, not considered much as i got factor in Retirement planning as well
I am there but i am going to cut this year about 30% ... I plan to be self-insured in 10y.
I am there but i am going to cut this year about 30% ... I plan to be self-insured in 10y.
just to share a tongue in cheek quote..
insurance are for the poor.. the rich dun need insurance! :p
i'm poor.. that's why need to cater for the living expenses of my dependants so they wun be saddled with debt (from critical illness medical bills, car and housing loans etc).. the really rich HNWIs dun really need insurance as they have enough assets to cover all bases even if touch wood they fall dead the next day. :beats-me-man:
On the topic:
On one hand it depends on Income (cashflow) and Savings/Investments (Balance sheet). Expenses and 'fear index' on the other.
I reckon $3mil in today's dollars in savings/investments yielding about 120,000 p.a. (4%) and then Income of about 180k p.a. - for one parent to retire. Of course, expenses cannot exceed 300k inclusive of income tax etc etc.
As for children: When young - not much in Investments/savings account, all come from Income. With constant threat of corporate down-sizing, sure difficult to plan for a bigger family. Not a condusive enviroment for bigger family planning.
phantom_opera
23-07-12, 14:22
just to share a tongue in cheek quote..
insurance are for the poor.. the rich dun need insurance! :p
i'm poor.. that's why need to cater for the living expenses of my dependants so they wun be saddled with debt (from critical illness medical bills, car and housing loans etc).. the really rich HNWIs dun really need insurance as they have enough assets to cover all bases even if touch wood they fall dead the next day. :beats-me-man:
Long term endowment (say 30y) only returns 5% in SGD term ... not my opinion, AIA head Singapore said so :2cents:
I might as well just find a 10y bond that yield 4% (it used to yield 5% 2y ago)
On the topic:
On one hand it depends on Income (cashflow) and Savings/Investments (Balance sheet). Expenses and 'fear index' on the other.
I reckon $3mil in today's dollars in savings/investments yielding about 120,000 p.a. (4%) and then Income of about 180k p.a. - for one parent to retire. Of course, expenses cannot exceed 300k inclusive of income tax etc etc.
As for children: When young - not much in Investments/savings account, all come from Income. With constant threat of corporate down-sizing, sure difficult to plan for a bigger family. Not a condusive enviroment for bigger family planning.
i think u share the same train of thought as my bosses.. only at a level of ard 300k p.a do they feel comfortable asking wife to stay home.
Long term endowment (say 30y) only returns 5% in SGD term ... not my opinion, AIA head Singapore said so :2cents:
I might as well just find a 10y bond that yield 4% (it used to yield 5% 2y ago)
with right planning, can easily build up a dividend yielding portfolio above 5%... but need to time it right to ensure dividend stream is defensive. if buy too high, then dividend yield will suffer. ;)
My boss is my wife!
300k sounds very big but once you stop working for say 2-3 years, your career options are contrained. So you have to be sure. And to be sure, you need a buffer.
Need to factor in many 'hidden' cost - insurance premiums, medical bills, inflation, vehicle/appliances replacement, etc etc. So can't even spend all of what you earn in a year - need to keep aside for the when it's needed.
i think u share the same train of thought as my bosses.. only at a level of ard 300k p.a do they feel comfortable asking wife to stay home.
My boss is my wife!
300k sounds very big but once you stop working for say 2-3 years, your career options are contrained. So you have to be sure. And to be sure, you need a buffer.
Need to factor in many 'hidden' cost - insurance premiums, medical bills, inflation, vehicle/appliances replacement, etc etc. So can't even spend all of what you earn in a year - need to keep aside for the when it's needed.
yup, i certainly share your concerns and considerations.. the risk can be overwhelming especially if there's no alternative sources of income than the 1 job the single working family is relying on. but building up a comfortable nest egg or to get alternative sources of reliable revenue are easier said than done! :(
phantom_opera
23-07-12, 14:32
This thread only proves one thing, Singapore education system is good at bring up kiasi (<30k month income is risky) kiasu (qualify of life cannot suffer) kianbo kiasars (spends 2.5k pm for insurance) Singaporeans :p we are the victims of our own success :banghead:
alamak, how come i quote my ex boss lifestyle but u assume i expect the same? :confused:
so... how much does the pre school classes (that your students teach at) charge?
so... are you a single income family too? ;)
I use "you" as a general term, not referring to you personally. My apologies.
My students all work in diverse preschool settings, from low end to high end settings. But high end does not necessarily mean quality. You have to assess on a case by case basis.
I am married but don't have children. Not by choice though. Factory is not working.
buttercarp
23-07-12, 14:42
i belong to the sandwiched class.. neither here nor there.
i have been toying with the thought of asking my wife to quit and just take care of kids.. but end up it seems too much of a risk plus quality of life may have to suffer by quite a fair bit. alot of things tat we take for granted now will have to be changed. and that's not something my wife is willing to take (although i dun mind).
around me, most (if not all) of my peers are still on dual income with both parents slogging hard.. so far in my career, only my bosses (senior mgmt) can afford to have their wives be stay home. even then, one of my ex-bosses, find it really tough to handle the finances (expensive cca for kids, overseas vacation etc) and his wife is now part-timing as a ppty agent! and tat's for a senior MD!
so, around me, it seems that unless one earns say 25-30k a mth, single income could be a tough ask without compromising quality of living.
but on the other spectrum, i do see many other cases where pple are happily living on single income on lesser. question is: is the sacrifice in quality worth it? or will it be better to sacrifice kids-bonding for better quality of life for all? :doh:
I don't see why your wife should quit if she is happy with her job.
If she is confident of getting employed again when the kids are bigger then she may consider.
Otherwise it is not wise.
When the kids grow up and don't need her, she will experience empty nest syndrome which can be very depressing.
We want the best for our kids but we have to consider our own needs too.
If her job requires most of her time then she should consider revising her hours or find a job which is not too taxing that it compromises family time.
If a spouse earns 25- 30K per month, all the more the other should work, in case of unforeseen circumstances. At least there is another income to support the lifestyle.
I feel that one should continue working no matter how much the spouse earns.
We are victims of inhabitants of all big cities through the ages.
Farmers have big families for labour units. But they are self-sustaining.
City dewellers enjoy 'services' but compromise their individual sustainabilty since they are only part of the widget-making process. So they have to keep on running.
Best circumstances is get a good childhood/education and then work in city till 30's. Have children and then know when to 'get out' of rat-trap and get a "farm" somewhere where your stored reserves can stretch.
This thread only proves one thing, Singapore education system is good at bring up kiasi (<30k month income is risky) kiasu (qualify of life cannot suffer) kianbo kiasars (spends 2.5k pm for insurance) Singaporeans :p we are the victims of our own success :banghead:
while i'm like the typical sgean who likes to grumble and complain, but i still feel singapore is a gd place to bring up kids. at least for the first 12 years of their life.
climate, general safety (although this is getting bad with more reported incidents), bilingual and structured education plus of cos the family support and network are key points to contribute to a kid's well being.
it's no coincidence folks like jim rogers, jet li etc chose to take up sg citizenship for their kids... so let's give singapore some credit where it's due. although indeed there's also many other valid points to consider (i.e. lack of creative learning, pressure cooker).
we should really apprecaite and give credits when it is due... many atimes we complain and complan...:D
comparing myself and 2 of my kids now (Sec 2 and P2), wah a world of a difference.. they are so vocal and expressive.. me only know how to take instruction without knowing we can also reason/challenge the instruction... so the education system is also changing and improving...
now P2 already got show and tell (presentation skills) using simple power point slide. last time where got...
Most families in singapore are on dual income.. with both husband and wife working while kids are handed over to either in-laws, or nannies, or childcare or domestic helpers...
however, sometimes the busy work lifestyle can be a drain on the welfare of the kids as they do not get to spend quality time with parents... especially when so many of our generation need to work OT and sometimes over weekends too (plus business trips to cover the region).
so the question is.. at what point should one of the parent quit their jobs and just be a stay home parent to provide the best care for kids (provided they want to)? :confused:
so, for an average family (with 1 car, 1 house and 1 or 2 kids), what will you believe to be a comfortable single income level before one of the parents can devote full time to taking care of household and kids?
For wife to stay at home to supervise the kids and take care of the home is the preferred choice.. Budget wise is very subjective and only u can work that out...there is no absolute figure to that..
But take note the roi is far greater if budget permit ...
Cheers!
This thread only proves one thing, Singapore education system is good at bring up kiasi (<30k month income is risky) kiasu (qualify of life cannot suffer) kianbo kiasars (spends 2.5k pm for insurance) Singaporeans :p we are the victims of our own success :banghead:
Lol.. Well said. But all these not necessarily bad what. What's wrong with wanting a gd quality of life? What's wrong with protecting one's family in case of unforeseen circumstances? What's wrong with conducting due diligence to be sure we weighed all options and considerations before making a very big life changing decision?
If all these are considered bad traits, then I fear for humanity!
I use "you" as a general term, not referring to you personally. My apologies.
My students all work in diverse preschool settings, from low end to high end settings. But high end does not necessarily mean quality. You have to assess on a case by case basis.
I am married but don't have children. Not by choice though. Factory is not working.
No apologies required bro.. Me just want to make sure u know I'm not asking for expensive classes for my kids for head start. In fact, if given a choice I will prefer to homeschool so I can tailor the progress based on my kids' aptitude or lack thereof. Lol
Hope you will be blessed with a kid soon.. :)
phantom_opera
23-07-12, 15:22
Lol.. Well said. But all these not necessarily bad what. What's wrong with wanting a gd quality of life? What's wrong with protecting one's family in case of unforeseen circumstances? What's wrong with conducting due diligence to be sure we weighed all options and considerations before making a very big life changing decision?
If all these are considered bad traits, then I fear for humanity!
there is a chinese proverb
鱼与熊掌不能兼得
Oh for my case my wife wants to not work.. Just that of cos it requires her to spend more time to jagar kids also.
Actually if given a choice, I rather she work and I take care f kids.. Cos we both agree I'm a much better parent. Haha..
With divorce, wife will get alimony so I dont agree that dual income should be a consideration on this premise..
I don't see why your wife should quit if she is happy with her job.
If she is confident of getting employed again when the kids are bigger then she may consider.
Otherwise it is not wise.
When the kids grow up and don't need her, she will experience empty nest syndrome which can be very depressing.
We want the best for our kids but we have to consider our own needs too.
If her job requires most of her time then she should consider revising her hours or find a job which is not too taxing that it compromises family time.
If a spouse earns 25- 30K per month, all the more the other should work, in case of unforeseen circumstances. At least there is another income to support the lifestyle.
I feel that one should continue working no matter how much the spouse earns.
For wife to stay at home to supervise the kids and take care of the home is the preferred choice.. Budget wise is very subjective and only u can work that out...there is no absolute figure to that..
But take note the roi is far greater if budget permit ...
Cheers!good advice bro. Thanks.. Me still thinking. Will be a very big step to take though.. But to me, the time now is the golden period for my kids.. So either do it real soon or basically just stick to dual income.. Tough decision.
good advice bro. Thanks.. Me still thinking. Will be a very big step to take though.. But to me, the time now is the golden period for my kids.. So either do it real soon or basically just stick to dual income.. Tough decision.
For me, fetching them to classes, schooling, swimming , etc provide us done quality time to talk to the kids. Sometime it how we make up on what we have.
Yeah.. It tough to decide ...
good advice bro. Thanks.. Me still thinking. Will be a very big step to take though.. But to me, the time now is the golden period for my kids.. So either do it real soon or basically just stick to dual income.. Tough decision.
What is your wife and your income respectively now?
What is your wife and your income respectively now?
middle income loh. but we don't have parents and parent's in law to rent out their houses to give us additional income.
plus me cant be taxi driver (thought got min age requirement)? :p
For me, fetching them to classes, schooling, swimming , etc provide us done quality time to talk to the kids. Sometime it how we make up on what we have.
Yeah.. It tough to decide ...
well, guess have to take 1 step at a time. maybe next year see bonus situation first. :p
middle income loh. but we don't have parents and parent's in law to rent out their houses to give us additional income.
plus me cant be taxi driver (thought got min age requirement)? :p
I am impressed by your current household income then. You mentioned in the thread that your expenditure is almost my household income and beyond.
turning into kiasuparent forum... lol
Frankly, dual income is sometime too much..a lot of quality time with kids foresake.
ideal is 1.5 times, meaning one full time,one part time.
maid,car,nice enrichment class,oversea vacation all retain
I agree. But its an "ideal" idea but not yet 'practiced' since perma-part-time work is not a wide-spread option in SG.
Frankly, dual income is sometime too much..a lot of quality time with kids foresake.
ideal is 1.5 times, meaning one full time,one part time.
maid,car,nice enrichment class,oversea vacation all retain
buttercarp
24-07-12, 13:26
For me, fetching them to classes, schooling, swimming , etc provide us done quality time to talk to the kids. Sometime it how we make up on what we have.
Yup, I agree with you.
My kids are teenagers and they will be engrossed in their own world when they are at home.
It is only during car rides that they open up.
So it is very important that I ferry them around.
I enjoy driving them.
In fact if they are in the car with their friends it is even better as I get to listen to their conversation.
I used to "spy" on them via facebook when they were younger but they became aware and switched to twitter.
Dual income family is better for the husband.
He won't feel so stressed out as there is always a salary buffer.
Yup, I agree with you.
My kids are teenagers and they will be engrossed in their own world when they are at home.
It is only during car rides that they open up.
So it is very important that I ferry them around.
I enjoy driving them.
In fact if they are in the car with their friends it is even better as I get to listen to their conversation.
I used to "spy" on them via facebook when they were younger but they became aware and switched to twitter.
Dual income family is better for the husband.
He won't feel so stressed out as there is always a salary buffer.
For me, my boy some time bring friends home, and yea can spy on their conversation and topic discussed ...
Sometime I feel the quality time with them is when they are still in pri school, once in sec onwards, they have friends ....
For me, my boy some time bring friends home, and yea can spy on their conversation and topic discussed ...
Sometime I feel the quality time with them is when they are still in pri school, once in sec onwards, they have friends ....
Actually it's different at different age. Between 1-4 I think parens play a pivotal role. Once go to primary or secsch then parents role will be comparatively weaker compared to external influences from peers and media.
Actually it's different at different age. Between 1-4 I think parens play a pivotal role. Once go to primary or secsch then parents role will be comparatively weaker compared to external influences from peers and media.
True and when they have children on their own, they will go back to the parent .(to jagar the kid for them )
Opp.. Deleted .. Duplicate posting
In economics, Daniel Kahneman has observed that there is an "aspiration treadmill" in that people who achieve increased wealth do not report increased happiness versus those who have less. This is apparently because humans adjust their expectations upward at each level of wealth or success. By imagining an alternate scenario and practicing gratitude, however, some psychologists theorize that it may be possible to maintain a high level of satisfaction and partially avoid the treadmill of increasing expectations.
Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/george-bailey-effect.asp?partner=TOD07&utm_source=term-of-the-day&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=TOD-7/24/2012#ixzz21b4f1bWq
phantom_opera
25-07-12, 10:32
In economics, Daniel Kahneman has observed that there is an "aspiration treadmill" in that people who achieve increased wealth do not report increased happiness versus those who have less. This is apparently because humans adjust their expectations upward at each level of wealth or success. By imagining an alternate scenario and practicing gratitude, however, some psychologists theorize that it may be possible to maintain a high level of satisfaction and partially avoid the treadmill of increasing expectations.
Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/george-bailey-effect.asp?partner=TOD07&utm_source=term-of-the-day&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=TOD-7/24/2012#ixzz21b4f1bWq
You are another Philosopher ;)
First u very happy with HDB BTO, then you very happy with condo, then you very happy with landed, after that you only happy GCB, after that castle or maharaja palace :doh:
Warren Buffet so rich but still want to invest :-)
You are another Philosopher ;)
First u very happy with HDB BTO, then you very happy with condo, then you very happy with landed, after that you only happy GCB, after that castle or maharaja palace :doh:
Warren Buffet so rich but still want to invest :-)
err, this quote is not from me. wad talking u? :confused:
i have never shared anything about wad i am happy with. u seem to be barking up the wrong tree. :rolleyes:
"WB is so rich but don't intend to retire" is a more accurate statement. his work is in managing HB -- which is an investment holding company. alamak. :D
@phantom looks like he is philosophically aware but poor at reading others intentions lol
@Vince I believe bro phantom's 'you' is not referring to u per se but general inclusive term 'you' or 'one'
@Vince I believe bro phantom's 'you' is not referring to u per se but general inclusive term 'you' or 'one'
ok.. i too sensitive. :o
referring to the article... contentment is elusive. not ez to obtain. in such a competitive society like sg, even if u have enough u will never stop comparing with others. but that unsettling feeling is also what pushes one to do more and go higher. that is how sg has progressed much in spite of its age.
referring to the article... contentment is elusive. not ez to obtain. in such a competitive society like sg, even if u have enough u will never stop comparing with others. but that unsettling feeling is also what pushes one to do more and go higher. that is how sg has progressed much in spite of its age.
yeah, the kiasu and kiasee attitude (as my earlier posting in response to phantom) have served SG well for the past 47 years. as we cross the half century mark, changes will need to be made. but not necessarily wholesale revamp... just adjustments to fine tune on a gradual mode over the next half century.. by then i think i aredi 1 and 3/4 foot in the coffin liao. :p
苦海无边，回头是岸... :not-worthy:
苦海无边，回头是岸... :not-worthy:
学海无涯，唯勤是岸。。。 :D
buttercarp
26-07-12, 12:02
Err... totally different except for the sea and the beach words.
苦海无边，回头是岸... :not-worthy:
There is salvation in repentence.
学海无涯，唯勤是岸。。。 :D
There is no limit to learning, you will reap rewards with diligence.
yeah, the kiasu and kiasee attitude (as my earlier posting in response to phantom) have served SG well for the past 47 years. as we cross the half century mark, changes will need to be made. but not necessarily wholesale revamp... just adjustments to fine tune on a gradual mode over the next half century.. by then i think i aredi 1 and 3/4 foot in the coffin liao. :p
Is called the 99 dollar club... Alway wanted the extra 1 dollar to make it 100 ..
In reality that 1 dollar never be enough and forever short of that 1 dollar.
Err... totally different except for the sea and the beach words.
There is salvation in repentence.
There is no limit to learning, you will reap rewards with diligence.
azeo guru is asking pple to stop and reconsider all the aspirational wanting..
mine is to ask pple to keep striving! :p
Is called the 99 dollar club... Alway wanted the extra 1 dollar to make it 100 ..
In reality that 1 dollar never be enough and forever short of that 1 dollar.
99cts shop went bust... aspirational seekers (like me) need to look to tat as premonition. :p
99cts shop went bust... aspirational seekers (like me) need to look to tat as premonition. :p
That one.99 shop by Nanz chong ? She a fighter and started from scratch ...but just that business fail .. And humble to go back to basic ....
Creative' sim Was reported to bail her out from the loan... for her credit on entreneneruial spirit ..
That is a presentiment article...
so, for an average family (with 1 car, 1 house and 1 or 2 kids), what will you believe to be a comfortable single income level before one of the parents can devote full time to taking care of household and kids?
For me, I've been asking my wife for a few years now to quit and take care of the kids. We already have a fully paid home, debt-free, a maid to do the housework and a car for her to do groceries and ferry the kids to/from school and the enrichment classes. But she refused as she wants to have her own income.
The stress from work has been killing me for some time, now I wish I can retire and take care of the kids. But it is a pipe dream as my income is a lot more.
As for the question about single income level, as long as a family is contented to live simply, the income level need not be high. But my family lifestyle is not simple enough, we probably need at least 10K income per month.
For me, I've been asking my wife for a few years now to quit and take care of the kids. We already have a fully paid home, debt-free, a maid to do the housework and a car for her to do groceries and ferry the kids to/from school and the enrichment classes. But she refused as she wants to have her own income.
The stress from work has been killing me for some time, now I wish I can retire and take care of the kids. But it is a pipe dream as my income is a lot more.
As for the question about single income level, as long as a family is contented to live simply, the income level need not be high. But my family lifestyle is not simple enough, we probably need at least 10K income per month.
i think u are in an enviable position where most liabilities have been fully catered for (fully paid housing is already a big load off your shoulders)... but i guess key thing is your wife prefers to be independent and enjoys her career. :)
maybe u shld ask your wife to work even harder and then u retire. that's my dream. wahahaha.. :D
on a more serious note, i share your same thoughts that a comfortable lifestyle is still impt even if on single income. else quality of life may still suffer.. tat's why i think i will only "sanction" a single income family if we can near 20k a mth (as we still have housing liability) else seems too risky. :beats-me-man:
judging from early poll results, appear most feel that dual income is the way to go; with an interesting mix of those on the lower and higher income spectrum for those who believe single income is possible and do-able. :cheers4:
That one.99 shop by Nanz chong ? She a fighter and started from scratch ...but just that business fail .. And humble to go back to basic ....
Creative' sim Was reported to bail her out from the loan... for her credit on entreneneruial spirit ..
That is a presentiment article...
poor mr sim's fortune has gone downhill since. i've read many articles about his philantrophy and charitable ways. i think if creative tech is still doing well, he will benefit many more pple with his kind and generous ways.
ps: i'm holding some stocks of creative tech for my son's education portfolio. hope in 18 years to come the stock will still be worth something. :p
poor mr sim's fortune has gone downhill since. i've read many articles about his philantrophy and charitable ways. i think if creative tech is still doing well, he will benefit many more pple with his kind and generous ways.
ps: i'm holding some stocks of creative tech for my son's education portfolio. hope in 18 years to come the stock will still be worth something. :p
LOL...yeap...fortune and stock goes south..tech is very competitive.. facing innovation competition .
i hope u are not holding Creative stock when it is sold at alot of 50 units.:scared-3: :scared-3:
LOL...yeap...fortune and stock goes south..tech is very competitive.. facing innovation competition .
i hope u are not holding Creative stock when it is sold at alot of 50 units.:scared-3: :scared-3:
I bought this at around 3 bucks so sitting on Paper profit.. Hope can recuperate to 10% of its past glory when it traded above 60 big bucks. Need it's tablet biz in china to take off..
I beg to differ about Nanz Chong.
She should just stick to modelling and capitalise on her pretty face... she is fighter yes... but not much of a businesswomen.
That one.99 shop by Nanz chong ? She a fighter and started from scratch ...but just that business fail .. And humble to go back to basic ....
Creative' sim Was reported to bail her out from the loan... for her credit on entreneneruial spirit ..
That is a presentiment article...
I beg to differ about Nanz Chong.
She should just stick to modelling and capitalise on her pretty face... she is fighter yes... but not much of a businesswomen.
She know that modeling can nn last long...
her business expension venture too fast and too big.. Her last retailer outlet at orchard' wisma was her downpit, Couple with the products she market unable to substain the high cost .. She went around to refinance her loan with creditors failed ..
She went all the way to dispose her asset, property and even the extend to rent house..in order to pay the loan...but still fall short to repay all ...
Many reasons for her failure... as she wrote in her books and talks she gives... mostly common sense issues, IMHO she is a very ambitious person but not cut out to do business.
In a way, she is making use of her good looks now to give talks.....
She know that modeling can nn last long...
her business expension venture too fast and too big.. Her last retailer outlet at orchard' wisma was her downpit, Couple with the products she market unable to substain the high cost .. She went around to refinance her loan with creditors failed ..
She went all the way to dispose her asset, property and even the extend to rent house..in order to pay the loan...but still fall short to repay all ...
http://nanzchongkomo.com/
By the way, she is a big supporter of City Harvest Church and dear leader Kong Hee. :doh: :rolleyes:
Many reasons for her failure... as she wrote in her books and talks she gives... mostly common sense issues, IMHO she is a very ambitious person but not cut out to do business.
In a way, she is making use of her good looks now to give talks.....
well, she has a very very big mouth, can eat all direction
only the stupid to attend her talk and buy her books
buttercarp
27-07-12, 11:21
well, she has a very very big mouth, can eat all direction
..............
LOL..... but still so skinny.
rymccondo77
27-07-12, 13:33
I believe Nanz Chong now has 3 children - they are more important than any business or material success (at least for me).
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