View Full Version : Kong Hee Kong Hee Kong Hee li... now cum wit me to polit station
TheOnlyGayInTheVillage
26-06-12, 16:29
Finally.... n byebye HO-llywood. tio hoot liao
bargain hunter
26-06-12, 16:48
......KONG HEE FATT CHOY!!!
phantom_opera
26-06-12, 17:49
The end of megachurch in SG imo
There will be people blind enough to still support him (i.e. his legal fees). Really hope they wake up finally!
phantom_opera
26-06-12, 18:01
$$$ and power corrupts
The end of megachurch in SG imo
there are still other power church around... ;)
one at buona vista..;)
phantom_opera
26-06-12, 19:27
there are still other power church around... ;)
one at buona vista..;)
yeah, this one got partner with CAPL, but hoh, garmen will make sure audit until :banghead: for next few years ... some members will also suddenly wake up of possible financial scandal
ya, we shall see how the wife spend in US...Beverly Hill hugh mansion....
By xinmsn, 22/06/2010
HO Yeow Sun, the wife of City Harvest Church (left) pastor Kong Hee, has again been thrust into the spotlight, with recent reports on her rented mansion in Hollywood.
The 40-year-old singer, who is based in the US, was reported to have rented a mansion in Hollywood Hills for S$28,000 a month.
http://news.xin.msn.com/en/article-commented.aspx?cp-documentid=4165695 (http://news.xin.msn.com/en/article-commented.aspx?cp-documentid=4165695)
It was reported by The New Paper in 2010 that Ho was renting a S$7.7 million estate in Hollywood Hills with her son, an assistant, a nanny, and her relatives.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/who-is-ho-yeow-sun--20120626.html (http://sg.news.yahoo.com/who-is-ho-yeow-sun--20120626.html)
This time really Ho-Lee-Hoot not Hollywood.
phantom_opera
26-06-12, 22:40
Adam and Eve - the story keeps repeating
DPM Teo seems to have been assigned a special duty with exceptional power after the 2011 election.
http://www.straitstimes.com/The-Big-Story/The-Big-Story-1/Story/STIStory_815199.html
real dumb arsssssses
they should have copied the FA LUN GONG MLM biz model!!!
guaranteed to fleece even more money from their followers.
singapore have all sorts of colourful characters involved in corruption..
firstly we had the gay monk, pastor using donations to support beverly hills wife, top gahmen officials having blowjobs in carpark, the NKF guy also...etc
seems like all walks of life are involved.
all very dramatic..:doh:
this type of ppl should really be punish HARD. KNN!!!! using ppl kind money to fund their lifestyle. they must be burn in hell!!!
this type of ppl should really be punish HARD. KNN!!!! using ppl kind money to fund their lifestyle. they must be burn in hell!!!
Just like you donate $$ to the temple.. and in the end of the day..
You take bus whenever you go.. and the monks take taxi whenever they go.. :D
Wild Falcon
27-06-12, 11:16
No lah. Still got FCBC and NCC.
The end of megachurch in SG imo
why didn't my parents tell me to be a pastor when i was young? i could then easily afford a whopping $9.3m Sentosa Cove penthouse.
Bloody ridiculous - this is what "unequal giving, but equal sacrifice" means. Shame on you PK and TYP for preaching about integrity on the pulpit.
and to fund my modest $5m semi-d dream along east coast, i'm selling exclusive info and insider stories about them. lai lai, come book appointment ;)
Wild Falcon
27-06-12, 11:22
I don't think its fair to compare NKF or Ren Ci with this case. There is clearly malicious intent here to cheat, scheme, hide and profit from it.
NKF Case - TT Durai was paid $600k per year and got gold taps. But if u think about it, everything has been approved by the BOD and he is just merely using his entitlement. Maybe the "first class" is a little too much but he was taking first class on a cheaper airline. There is no malicious intent.
Ren Ci - this one lagi small matter. The monk merely lent like $20k to an assistant and waived it and did not document it properly. More of a case of oversight and poor admin and overly trusting. This is blown out of proportion. He did not gain anything out of the oversight
CHC - This is a case of 10 years of siphoning funds involving more than $24 million with clear plotting and scheming to satisfy their greed and ensuring steps are taken to hide their hideous plot. Clearly malicious intent is involved. This can't be the teaching of Jesus Christ. its shocking its members are still supporting the pastor.
singapore have all sorts of colourful characters involved in corruption..
firstly we had the gay monk, pastor using donations to support beverly hills wife, top gahmen officials having blowjobs in carpark, the NKF guy also...etc
seems like all walks of life are involved.
all very dramatic..:doh:
I don't think its fair to compare NKF or Ren Ci with this case. There is clearly malicious intent here to cheat, scheme, hide and profit from it.
NKF Case - TT Durai was paid $600k per year and got gold taps. But if u think about it, everything has been approved by the BOD and he is just merely using his entitlement. Maybe the "first class" is a little too much but he was taking first class on a cheaper airline. There is no malicious intent.
Ren Ci - this one lagi small matter. The monk merely lent like $20k to an assistant and waived it and did not document it properly. More of a case of oversight and poor admin and overly trusting. This is blown out of proportion. He did not gain anything out of the oversight
CHC - This is a case of 10 years of siphoning funds involving more than $24 million with clear plotting and scheming to satisfy their greed and ensuring steps are taken to hide their hideous plot. Clearly malicious intent is involved. This can't be the teaching of Jesus Christ. its shocking its members are still supporting the pastor.
ppl has very weak WILL POWER and they need some "GOD" send "leader" to preach them. really cannot believe, they are already under charged and there are still brainless clown supporting them. they are using commoners money to maintain their luxury life w/o doing any hardwork. really SHAME on them.
Just like you donate $$ to the temple.. and in the end of the day..
You take bus whenever you go.. and the monks take taxi whenever they go.. :D
Wat take taxi. Now they drive ..
I don't think its fair to compare NKF or Ren Ci with this case. There is clearly malicious intent here to cheat, scheme, hide and profit from it.
NKF Case - TT Durai was paid $600k per year and got gold taps. But if u think about it, everything has been approved by the BOD and he is just merely using his entitlement. Maybe the "first class" is a little too much but he was taking first class on a cheaper airline. There is no malicious intent.
Ren Ci - this one lagi small matter. The monk merely lent like $20k to an assistant and waived it and did not document it properly. More of a case of oversight and poor admin and overly trusting. This is blown out of proportion. He did not gain anything out of the oversight
CHC - This is a case of 10 years of siphoning funds involving more than $24 million with clear plotting and scheming to satisfy their greed and ensuring steps are taken to hide their hideous plot. Clearly malicious intent is involved. This can't be the teaching of Jesus Christ. its shocking its members are still supporting the pastor.
NKF' overly arrogant and confident, thinking got backing, reporters l offered to aplogies but still take it to court. And kana till pants down lao sia..
Ren c, is monk that like horse and car.. Not sure the rest...
This latest, more report to come from the court room.
No lah. Still got FCBC and NCC.
i know NCC ..they will be moved to the new buona vista mall this year, i think..
what is FCBC? where is their base?
http://blogs.wsj.com/scene/2012/06/27/founder-of-singapores-biggest-church-in-hot-water/
Twitter and Facebook were filled with messages of support for the husband and wife team, mostly from members of City Harvest Church. Supporters of the church maintained that Singapore is a better place for their contributions, and offered their unwavering dedication to the church and its leaders.
how did they contribute to SG? :doh:
I don't think its fair to compare NKF or Ren Ci with this case. There is clearly malicious intent here to cheat, scheme, hide and profit from it.
NKF Case - TT Durai was paid $600k per year and got gold taps. But if u think about it, everything has been approved by the BOD and he is just merely using his entitlement. Maybe the "first class" is a little too much but he was taking first class on a cheaper airline. There is no malicious intent.
Ren Ci - this one lagi small matter. The monk merely lent like $20k to an assistant and waived it and did not document it properly. More of a case of oversight and poor admin and overly trusting. This is blown out of proportion. He did not gain anything out of the oversight
CHC - This is a case of 10 years of siphoning funds involving more than $24 million with clear plotting and scheming to satisfy their greed and ensuring steps are taken to hide their hideous plot. Clearly malicious intent is involved. This can't be the teaching of Jesus Christ. its shocking its members are still supporting the pastor.
Cannot agree with Ren Ci - Did he loan his own money or someone elses. Loan his own and forget - OK, your problem. Loan someone elses and forget it looks a lot like stealing - which is why it's illegal.
Only difference is scale. CHC buggers are braver and more hands on.
Pity all the poor drones still captured inside unable to breakout of their mental prisons.
I don't think its fair to compare NKF or Ren Ci with this case. There is clearly malicious intent here to cheat, scheme, hide and profit from it.
NKF Case - TT Durai was paid $600k per year and got gold taps. But if u think about it, everything has been approved by the BOD and he is just merely using his entitlement. Maybe the "first class" is a little too much but he was taking first class on a cheaper airline. There is no malicious intent.
Ren Ci - this one lagi small matter. The monk merely lent like $20k to an assistant and waived it and did not document it properly. More of a case of oversight and poor admin and overly trusting. This is blown out of proportion. He did not gain anything out of the oversight
CHC - This is a case of 10 years of siphoning funds involving more than $24 million with clear plotting and scheming to satisfy their greed and ensuring steps are taken to hide their hideous plot. Clearly malicious intent is involved. This can't be the teaching of Jesus Christ. its shocking its members are still supporting the pastor.
if everything is so minor,than there will be no end to it.
at the end of the day,its not up to u or for me to decide.
and fyi,that DURAI guy flew 1st class on singapore airlines on numerous occasions..
u call that "cheaper airlines" ?
if everything is so minor,than there will be no end to it.
at the end of the day,its not up to u or for me to decide.
and fyi,that DURAI guy flew 1st class on singapore airlines on numerous occasions..
u call that "cheaper airlines" ?
And don forget the golden tap...
Cannot agree with Ren Ci - Did he loan his own money or someone elses. Loan his own and forget - OK, your problem. Loan someone elses and forget it looks a lot like stealing - which is why it's illegal.
Only difference is scale. CHC buggers are braver and more hands on.
Pity all the poor drones still captured inside unable to breakout of their mental prisons.
Eat a bit called cheapskate , wan to eat , make sure eat big feasting ..
why didn't my parents tell me to be a pastor when i was young? i could then easily afford a whopping $9.3m Sentosa Cove penthouse.
only a penthouse? 50 penthouse also can lah :D
Eat a bit called cheapskate , wan to eat , make sure eat big feasting ..
just like someone who posted in another forum..
the name " CITY HARVEST " is so appropriate to its activities....
wa hahahahahahahahahaha :cheers5:
SINGAPORE - Tension was high outside the Subordinate Courts today as supporters of the City Harvest Church leaders formed a human wall to shield them from the media.
More than 200 people turned up to support City Harvest founder Kong Hee and four other church members as they faced charges for the alleged misuse of church funds.
The paper reported that 20 people formed a human wall around the accused members as they walked out of court.
A female photojournalist was overheard yelling, "Why did you push me? I am a woman!".
Shin Min Daily News reported that many supporters were agitated, some were even seen crying outside of court.
dumb, dumber, in this case HOPELESS DUMBASSes!!!:D :D :D
Scums. These Christians probably believe they will be forgiven since the idea is always forgiven as long as you hide in the box to confess sins.
Dirty business should be kept to commercial business at most, never never on government and never ever in the name of heaven and God.
shouldnt the police intervene for illegal assembly? :cool:
phantom_opera
28-06-12, 10:05
I really want to laugh when Kong Hee quoted some Bible quotes to relieve his stress ... does he even know 10 commandment?
"Thou shalt not steal."
And another girl not yet prosecuted:
One name has cropped up in the investigations into alleged wrongdoing by some leaders of City Harvest Church - that of Serina Wee.
The 36-year-old, who used to be the church's finance director, has so far not been charged with any crime.
In court documents, however, she is said to have conspired with pastor Kong Hee and four others to siphon money from the church's building fund.
And in the records of the Accounting and Corporate Regulatory Authority, she is listed as the secretary of more than 50 companies - many linked to the church and its leaders :hell-hath-no-fury: :doh: :eek: :scared-1:
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/image/20120627/ST_20120628_SERINCITY28_3181575.jpg
I really want to laugh when Kong Hee quoted some Bible quotes to relieve his stress ... does he even know 10 commandment?
And another girl not yet prosecuted:
One name has cropped up in the investigations into alleged wrongdoing by some leaders of City Harvest Church - that of Serina Wee.
The 36-year-old, who used to be the church's finance director, has so far not been charged with any crime.
In court documents, however, she is said to have conspired with pastor Kong Hee and four others to siphon money from the church's building fund.
And in the records of the Accounting and Corporate Regulatory Authority, she is listed as the secretary of more than 50 companies - many linked to the church and its leaders :hell-hath-no-fury: :doh: :eek: :scared-1:
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/image/20120627/ST_20120628_SERINCITY28_3181575.jpg
Hmm... maybe she's the informer
organised religion is about BIG MONEY.
the world rotate around $$ :D
The Christians' faith believe in the spreading of its religion and it remains one of its core teachings in Christianity. As such, Christians are willingly contributing toward this course. In the name of bringing the religion to the Chinese speaking country like Taiwan through music and songs, spending fifty millions dollars is consider a worthwhile course; whether the objective is met or not. We need to understand the thinking of these faithfuls. They are still supporting the course even though the paths they took are flawed.
Juicy insider news:
PK and HYS owns THIRTEEN units at horizon towers, excluding other properties (and the Sentosa Cove gem)
Why didn't my parents tell me to be a pastor when I was growing up?! :simmering:
"Insider" u referring to dtrax or luxuryhomeasia? ;)
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=284867&postcount=4
"Insider" u referring to dtrax or luxuryhomeasia? ;)
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=284867&postcount=4
HAHAHAHA!!! :D:D:D
why didn't my parents tell me to be a pastor when i was young? i could then easily afford a whopping $9.3m Sentosa Cove penthouse.
Bloody ridiculous - this is what "unequal giving, but equal sacrifice" means. Shame on you PK and TYP for preaching about integrity on the pulpit.
To afford a whopping $9.3m Sentosa Cove & live in luxury.. come from the contribution of thousands of followers who staying in HDB.. :rolleyes:
To afford a whopping $9.3m Sentosa Cove & live in luxury.. come from the contribution of thousands of followers who staying in HDB.. :rolleyes:
who to blame?? these ppl already been brainwashed. they already facing charges and they still support them. really brainless and hopeless. brainwash technology is more powerful than neuclear weapon
Why didn't my parents tell me to be a pastor when I was growing up?! :simmering:
Easy answer
I dont think any parents want their children to go to hell.
who to blame?? these ppl already been brainwashed. they already facing charges and they still support them. really brainless and hopeless. brainwash technology is more powerful than neuclear weapon
It is not that they are brainless and/or hopeless. It is pyschological.
Not many people will or can admit that they r wrong.
Just try to imagine, they have been worshiping at the church and donating their money for 10 years, at the end they find out it has been all for nothing, that they have been frauded? Their efforts to go heaven is all for nothing? That theperson they admired and folollowed for 10 years is a trickster, not a man of god?
It would be easier pyachologically for them that police govt is wrong instead of saying they are wrong and have been tricked for 10 over years
phantom_opera
28-06-12, 13:16
It is not that they are brainless and/or hopeless. It is pyschological.
Not many people will or can admit that they r wrong.
Just try to imagine, they have been worshiping at the church and donating their money for 10 years, at the end they find out it has been all for nothing, that they have been frauded? Their efforts to go heaven is all for nothing? That theperson they admired and folollowed for 10 years is a trickster, not a man of god?
It would be easier pyachologically for them that police govt is wrong instead of saying they are wrong and have been tricked for 10 over years
well said, state of denial ... then state of despair, then state of bochap, then state of acceptance
from a humble Tampines HDB straight into Horizon Tower :rolleyes:
"Insider" u referring to dtrax or luxuryhomeasia? ;)
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=284867&postcount=4
oh! didn't know this was already public knowledge. oops, thought i knew better since i used to be part of the circle, though not on the 'innermost' ring
Does IRAS know all abt these all these years in e tax filings?
Does IRAS know all abt these all these years in e tax filings?
probably can an trace up to 8-10yr ...
:scared-2:
Does IRAS know all abt these all these years in e tax filings?
obviously iras is not aware...:doh:
any idea what car or cars this KONG HEE FATT CHOY:hell-hath-no-fury: fella drives?
maserati? lambo? aston martin?
he will rot in hell if found guilty:simmering: :simmering: :simmering:
TheOnlyGayInTheVillage
28-06-12, 16:15
The Christians' faith believe in the spreading of its religion and it remains one of its core teachings in Christianity. As such, Christians are willingly contributing toward this course. In the name of bringing the religion to the Chinese speaking country like Taiwan through music and songs, spending fifty millions dollars is consider a worthwhile course; whether the objective is met or not. We need to understand the thinking of these faithfuls. They are still supporting the course even though the paths they took are flawed.
Ya. Sure. To spread the good word one needs to have a lot of expensive properties and stay in a Sentosa Cove PH.
I have personally heard from some of these 'followers' mouth that the church gatherings are a great place to network with the rich and sell them stuff.
This is an analysis of City Harvest's wealth written in April 2010.... a good read and very illumininating
http://thinking-free-and-fair.blogspot.sg/2010/03/analysis-into-wealth-of-city-harvest.html
phantom_opera
28-06-12, 21:52
The world's most amazing holes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4YdG6366Ds&feature=related
You must look at the last one, the 8th hole ;)
The world's most amazing holes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4YdG6366Ds&feature=related
You must look at the last one, the 8th hole ;)
HAHAHAH!!
:D:D:D
The world's most amazing holes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4YdG6366Ds&feature=related
You must look at the last one, the 8th hole ;)
good one!:D
any idea what car or cars this KONG HEE FATT CHOY:hell-hath-no-fury: fella drives?
maserati? lambo? aston martin?
he will rot in hell if found guilty:simmering: :simmering: :simmering:
if he's still driving the same car as when i left the church, it's an Audi. the model of car is secondary when you can afford to hire a chauffeur, eh?
The world's most amazing holes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4YdG6366Ds&feature=related
You must look at the last one, the 8th hole ;)
Is a black hole ..
When you flaunt your ill gotten wealth publicly, it is the start of your downfall. Smart richies are those who remain extremely low profile and out of the public eye.
HAHAHAHA!!! :D:D:D
Genuie mistake la lol
This is an analysis of City Harvest's wealth written in April 2010.... a good read and very illumininating
http://thinking-free-and-fair.blogspot.sg/2010/03/analysis-into-wealth-of-city-harvest.html
Good writng of individual ..
I was in fact reading the next blog...Keeping men from temptation of keeping mistress... And to fine the mistress instead...LOL...
This is an analysis of City Harvest's wealth written in April 2010.... a good read and very illumininating
http://thinking-free-and-fair.blogspot.sg/2010/03/analysis-into-wealth-of-city-harvest.html
ah..miss out your post.
good read there!! :cheers4:
Ya. Sure. To spread the good word one needs to have a lot of expensive properties and stay in a Sentosa Cove PH.
I have personally heard from some of these 'followers' mouth that the church gatherings are a great place to network with the rich and sell them stuff.
I heard that the some churches operate like a "MLM" (Multi-Level Marketing) model when come to the recruitment of new members. If this is true, then older members will be making a lot of money as long as their downlines continue to recruit new paying members. All members are expected to contribute 10% of their salaries to the church. If all this is true, is it legal to recruit members this way? What about personal income tax from such "commissions"? Obviously, they do not pay any tax since it is not reported as their personal incomes.
phantom_opera
29-06-12, 14:29
CHC is putting a tough front woh ... they said no money is lost and they are confident with Kong Hee ... one guy even wrote to scold MCYS
Garmen now very afraid of megachurch ... MM Lee will ensure something is done ... mark my words
CHC is putting a tough front woh ... they said no money is lost and they are confident with Kong Hee ... one guy even wrote to scold MCYS
Garmen now very afraid of megachurch ... MM Lee will ensure something is done ... mark my words
No money is lost? i thought the redemption of bonds was done through moving another chunk of money from the church? i dont see how the money was repaid.
and some of the donations were not even recorded and transactions done in cash and locked in a church safe.
just wonder how much is his income?
can afford to have 13 units at Horizon Towers and PH in Sentosa...
also, did he contribute 10% of his pay back to the church...
just wonder how much is his income?
can afford to have 13 units at Horizon Towers and PH in Sentosa...
also, did he contribute 10% of his pay back to the church...
not 13 units lah, they belong to an informal group of owners that as a group own 13 units.
I believe Gov Prosecutors have got damn strong evidence for them to bring these people to court after all investigations have been ongoing for a few years. Probably no horse run now especially come to religious organisations, am sure prosecutors are extra careful before they bring a charge against...:2cents:
if he's still driving the same car as when i left the church, it's an Audi. the model of car is secondary when you can afford to hire a chauffeur, eh?
Why u left CHC?
I believe Gov Prosecutors have got damn strong evidence for them to bring these people to court after all investigations have been ongoing for a few years. Probably no horse run now especially come to religious organisations, am sure prosecutors are extra careful before they bring a charge against...:2cents:
2 years ley.. Must produce result.
Kong hee should engage a pr professional instead of a lawyer.
I for one, think he will be found guilty in singapore court.
So that is a gone case, the issue for him is how to spin such tha he is only guilty of human law, but he is innocent under heaven's law.
1) admit no wrongdoing. Keep on maintaning he is innocent under heaven. Swear on the bible and such. Of course, if didnt admit it, sentence would be longer however he is playing a longer game.
Keep on repeating he was witchhunted. Play on being a matyr for the church
2) his 33000 followers can convert to a lot of votes.
For smaller grcs or single conatityuencies, it can mean win or lose for either parties.
Initially make commentaries on religious and social issues. Ensure that it is not anti or pro govt. People will look up to you like a wise statesman.
3) his wife should seek refuge in the us embassy in singapore, claiming religious persecution.
4)prosperity gospel does works. By doing god's work, he is rewarded 100x.
The stronger ur faith and donations, the more u r rewarded.
5) start making statistics on how successful the crossover project is. Interview some of the overseas convert and the foreigbn poor that have been helped.
The key is not convincing the singapore govt, but to make that the 33000 still believed in him.
This is a battle for the hearts and minds of the 33000.
Qadaffi didnt listen to my advice to use children as human shields for his tanks.Look at what happened to him.
I kind of missed the great tyrants of the past. Reading stalin, tamerlane ,and such, the current despots seem like children. The current syria president is a pale shadow of his father, who killed 20000 in homs
A single death a tragedy, a million a statistic.
After watching her 2 videos I am begiining to understand the modus operandi of the Crossover Project.... it is to turn people off from pop music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ya3Hqu_-cg
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mr+bill+sun+ho&oq=mr+bill+sun+ho&gs_l=youtube-reduced.12..35i39.10869.16220.0.18233.9.9.0.0.0.0.179.836.7j2.9.0...0.0.iYk_Vgw8uSY
TheOnlyGayInTheVillage
29-06-12, 18:05
After watching her 2 videos I am begiining to understand the modus operandi of the Crossover Project.... it is to turn people off from pop music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ya3Hqu_-cg
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mr+bill+sun+ho&oq=mr+bill+sun+ho&gs_l=youtube-reduced.12..35i39.10869.16220.0.18233.9.9.0.0.0.0.179.836.7j2.9.0...0.0.iYk_Vgw8uSY
wakakakakaka rotfl!!!!!! i heard mr beer mr beer
If he is guilty, I think the best way for CHC to survive is for him to admit his mistake and blame it on the failings of a man rather than drag GOD into the picture.
If he still insists that spending $20+million on Sun Ho aka Geisha Girl in China Wine and Mr Bill as GOD's inspiration and aspiration then CHC and even other Christians' faith may be shaken
Kong hee should engage a pr professional instead of a lawyer.
I for one, think he will be found guilty in singapore court.
So that is a gone case, the issue for him is how to spin such tha he is only guilty of human law, but he is innocent under heaven's law.
1) admit no wrongdoing. Keep on maintaning he is innocent under heaven. Swear on the bible and such. Of course, if didnt admit it, sentence would be longer however he is playing a longer game.
Keep on repeating he was witchhunted. Play on being a matyr for the church
2) his 33000 followers can convert to a lot of votes.
For smaller grcs or single conatityuencies, it can mean win or lose for either parties.
Initially make commentaries on religious and social issues. Ensure that it is not anti or pro govt. People will look up to you like a wise statesman.
3) his wife should seek refuge in the us embassy in singapore, claiming religious persecution.
4)prosperity gospel does works. By doing god's work, he is rewarded 100x.
The stronger ur faith and donations, the more u r rewarded.
5) start making statistics on how successful the crossover project is. Interview some of the overseas convert and the foreigbn poor that have been helped.
The key is not convincing the singapore govt, but to make that the 33000 still believed in him.
This is a battle for the hearts and minds of the 33000.
Qadaffi didnt listen to my advice to use children as human shields for his tanks.Look at what happened to him.
I kind of missed the great tyrants of the past. Reading stalin, tamerlane ,and such, the current despots seem like children. The current syria president is a pale shadow of his father, who killed 20000 in homs
A single death a tragedy, a million a statistic.
phantom_opera
29-06-12, 19:19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YZb8s7Kxa4
There's a lady who's sure all that glitter is gold.
And she's buying a stairway to heaven. And when she gets there she knows if the store are closed.
With a word she can get what she came for.
她根本都不漂亮，也没气质。
can use $$$ to turn the it upside down :D
very interesting, people actually downgrade HDB to donate to CHC.
but think KH still not that influential.
He still have not say:
"sell your body to give to the church".
"donate till your pussy and arse bleeds".
His intepretation of the bible would be:
Jesus forgive the prostitute, so God will also forgive you if (and only if) your sex derived earnings is donated to the church, otherwise you will be burn in hell.
given that majority of members are young, they can earn $500 a pop (just like the 17yr girl).
wonder why doesn't CHC open a brothel in Geylang to cater to the lower and middle class?
afterall they can spin it as part of crossover project, to reach out to the sinners, ie prostitutes and their customers.
as part of the media spin, it is sinners that need saving. those already saved need to be saved meh?
Also in brothel, have video recording equipment for future blackmail.
since the only people who can afford the $500 session are respectable members of society (you think bangla worker can pay $500 ?), he gives instructions to the temple "virgins" to record the time, the date, the place and have another member video the girl entering and the man coming out of the hotel room, for future blackmail.
sigh, KH really need a pr professional to advise him on media spin.
remember "give till your pussy and arse bleeds".
If he is guilty, I think the best way for CHC to survive is for him to admit his mistake and blame it on the failings of a man rather than drag GOD into the picture.
If he still insists that spending $20+million on Sun Ho aka Geisha Girl in China Wine and Mr Bill as GOD's inspiration and aspiration then CHC and even other Christians' faith may be shaken
you dont have a good understanding of crowd psychology.
individuals behave different when in a crow.
if he admit his mistake, that's it for him.
if he continue to maintain he is not wrong, his followers will still make excuses for him (and not him the one making excuses).
I don't ?..... and you do ?.... oh ok lor...
Still, I stand by my view. If he is indeed guilty, for the City Harvest to survive it is better for him to admit his guilt rather than for the courts to prove his guilt.
If he is guilty, the evidence will stream out point by point, date by date. The findings are factual, irrefutable and unquestionable unlike the existence of a GOD.
If Kong Hee goes down, City Harvest goes down. The only way it can continue to survive is for Kong Hee to make a dissociation by admitting it as a human failure rather than a motivation by GOD. (How can GOD motivate anybody to commit a crime?)
I don't know how many CHC members you know.... many ordinary church members are logging into youtube and checking out the China Wine and Mr Bill videos. While the Crossover Project may be technically "legitimate", many are flabbergasted by the extravagance of the amount used and the sub par product.... not to mention the distinct lack of the Christian message (in fact quite the opposite).
The court case is something else... it is regarding criminal breach of trust (CBT). Kong Hee may very well be found not guilty because he is really not guilty. But if the authorities spent so much resource in 2 years to investigate this, I am quite sure they have a very strong case.
you dont have a good understanding of crowd psychology.
individuals behave different when in a crow.
if he admit his mistake, that's it for him.
if he continue to maintain he is not wrong, his followers will still make excuses for him (and not him the one making excuses).
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/pdf/20120626/PRESSSTATEMENT-INQUIRYFOUNDMISCONDUCTANDMISMANAGEMENTINTHECITYHARVESTCHURCH.odt.pdf
details of breaches, very serious.
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/pdf/20120626/PRESSSTATEMENT-INQUIRYFOUNDMISCONDUCTANDMISMANAGEMENTINTHECITYHARVESTCHURCH.odt.pdf
details of breaches, very serious.
Very colorful years from 2001-2012 for Singapore.
Church’s remarks raise questions
It could be seen as interfering with judicial process, say some lawyers
By LEONARD LIM and BRYNA SIM
30 June 2012
The unusual move by City Harvest Church to issue a statement dismissing the allegations of misuse of funds before the case has gone to trial has fuelled questions of its intent.
Insiders said the church, now headed by executive pastor Aries Zulkarnain, 39, deemed the statement necessary to allay the concerns of its 30,000 members.
An executive member who has been with the church for more than a decade said City Harvest, in making that strongly worded statement, was seeking to lift the congregation’s spirits and ‘unite them’.
The church’s founding pastor Kong Hee and four others, charged in court on Wednesday, could face lengthy jail terms - even for life - if found guilty.
Lawyers yesterday said that the statement by the church was risky - if not reckless - because it could be construed as interfering with the judicial process.
The statement, posted on the church’s website and sent to the media on Thursday, said the church stood with those involved in the case, including Kong.
It added that church activities were unaffected and that Kong, 47, and his deputy Tan Ye Peng could continue to preach at the church.
The pair have been charged with criminal breach of trust as agents.
They, with three others, are alleged to have funnelled $24 million into sham bond investments to further the music career of Kong’s pop singer wife Ho Yeow Sun, and alleged to have misappropriated a further $26.6 million in church funds to cover up the first amount.
The five have not entered pleas and are due in court on July 25.
What surprised many was that in the City Harvest statement, Mr Aries addressed the allegations and maintained that the church did not lose any funds in the alleged transactions.
He also said the accused did not make any personal profit.
Lawyers interviewed were divided on whether his comments constituted subjudice, a legal concept referring to words or actions that may affect or prejudice the outcome of court proceedings. It is an offence to do so.
The president of the Association of Criminal Lawyers of Singapore Subhas Anandan said: ‘To address the allegations is subjudice, as the evidence has not been heard in court.’
But others said it is debatable whether Mr Aries’ comments were in contempt of court.
Criminal lawyer R. S. Bajwa said that while the church has said no funds were lost, it remained up to the prosecution to decide if that will be a point of contention.
‘If the prosecution decides to debate on whether restitution was in fact made, then what the church has said would be considered subjudice,’ he said.
The Attorney-General’s Chambers, asked to respond to the church’s statement, said that criminal charges were before the court and that neither the prosecution nor any other party should comment on issues which will be subject to adjudication and on which evidence will be led in court.
The police gave a similar response: ‘Generally, in law, the offence of criminal breach of trust of monies is established once there is misappropriation of the monies with the requisite intent, regardless of whether there have or have not been subsequent attempts at restitution by the accused.’
Meanwhile, church members The Straits Times spoke to said the statement had reassured them and clarified the situation.
Communications manager James Yan, a 31-year-old who has been with the church for more than 10 years, said: ‘The statement was helpful. It did not speculate, but merely clarified certain facts.’
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1210895/1/.html
City Harvest Church's Kong Hee maintains integrity
By Sharon See | Posted: 30 June 2012 2120 hrs
SINGAPORE: Founder of City Harvest Church, Pastor Kong Hee has maintained his integrity in the face of allegations that he and other senior members of the church misused millions of dollars of church funds to finance his wife, Sun Ho's music career.
He was addressing church-goers for the first time ever since he and four other church leaders were charged in court on Wednesday.
Saturday marked the first service for City Harvest Church after its founder Kong Hee and four other senior members were charged in court with misuse of church funds.
Addressing thousands of church-goers at the Singapore Expo, Pastor Kong Hee said he can't comment further on the case as the matter is before the court.
However, he told the congregation that he maintains his integrity.
"The past few days have been very challenging. Please know that there are always two sides to a story. I look forward to the day I can tell you my side of the story in court," he said.
His wife, Sun Ho, led the congregation in singing hymns.
At the service, some church members spoke up in support of the Crossover Project, which the church said is an outreach programme using Sun Ho's music to engage non-Christians.
Most church-goers Channel NewsAsia spoke to said while they are concerned about the ongoing court case, they also believe in their pastors.
"We are all very concerned... because, (after all) the people who are charged are our leaders. But we trust in their integrity, and we trust that the law is fair," said one church member.
"As Christians, we believe that whatever we donate is to God, and the man is only the custodian. So whatever that is done, once we give the money, to me, personally I don't think about it," said another.
- CNA/cc
Read this from another forum., below is extract:
"I met up with a friend whose 15-year old daughter attends City Harvest church. He tried to explain the current issue to his daughter but she insisted that the church did nothing wrong because no money was lost and the government is going after City Harvest because they are getting too big and powerful. My friend couldn't believe the utter rubbish that City Harvest is preaching to their young and naive followers.
I told my friend to ask his daughter this scenario. Let's say while the father is asleep, the daughter sneek into his bedroom to take $50 from his wallet to go watch a movie with her boyfriend. When the father realised $50 missing from his wallet, he started to query the family members. It was then his daughter quietly ask her mother for $50 to buy some books, and secretly put back the $50 into her father's wallet when he was in the shower. Is there anything wrong with this?
Guess what his daughter said? "You have your $50 back what, so what's your problem?"
I never hide my disdain for PAP, but I also can't tolerate their screwed-up belief that the government is going after City Harvest because they are too big and powerful. Putting Kong Hee and his thieves in jail is only the beginning. The next step is to cleanse up the rubbish in the minds of thousands of young, naive and blind followers of City Harvest. Otherwise, we would have 33,000 potential CBT cases in future."
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1210895/1/.html
City Harvest Church's Kong Hee maintains integrity
By Sharon See | Posted: 30 June 2012 2120 hrs
..........
well done, never ever admit that you are guilty. even when (not if) you are sentenced to jail, always claim that you r innocent with your god as your witness, and proclaim loudly to the congregration, "if you are guilty as charged, you would be strike down dead by god".
we all know that you wont be struck down dead by god :)
at the end of the case, when you are sentenced, your congregration may lessened from 33,000 (past) to 22,000 (present) to 10,000 (future). But the remaining 10,000 left would all be hard-core believers in you. They would all be hardened by the process and would go through hell (not heaven) with you.
if you tell them to "give till their pussy and arse hurts", they will gladly do so.
if you tell them god tell you to spread your seed, many women would spread their legs for you.
remember, always maintain you are innocent under god's law.
Nelson Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi, all won in the end despite years of imprisonment. You KH, can be like them too.
Just wanna share a little gossip i heard through the grapevine:
Someone has been using their corporate Amex card to buy extravagant stuff, including super branded fashion products like Suits.
As this is out of the norm for corporate purchases, Amex staff in charge called to enquire and was rudely told off for being Kepoh, by THE man who maintained his integrity.
Not long after, the man with so much integrity cancelled the amex card.
Watched some interviews on the news and I cannot believe how brainwashed those believers are.
KOK to the max .:doh:
Wow hopeful! Looks like kong Hee n sun ho buy your points 2,4,5! but he still maintains his integrity n does not admit his has done wrongly. Alamak! The wife wasn't charged, how to seek refuge le? Somemore, the case is about religious but about money misappropriation.
Kong hee should engage a pr professional instead of a lawyer.
I for one, think he will be found guilty in singapore court.
So that is a gone case, the issue for him is how to spin such tha he is only guilty of human law, but he is innocent under heaven's law.
1) admit no wrongdoing. Keep on maintaning he is innocent under heaven. Swear on the bible and such. Of course, if didnt admit it, sentence would be longer however he is playing a longer game.
Keep on repeating he was witchhunted. Play on being a matyr for the church
2) his 33000 followers can convert to a lot of votes.
For smaller grcs or single conatityuencies, it can mean win or lose for either parties.
Initially make commentaries on religious and social issues. Ensure that it is not anti or pro govt. People will look up to you like a wise statesman.
3) his wife should seek refuge in the us embassy in singapore, claiming religious persecution.
4)prosperity gospel does works. By doing god's work, he is rewarded 100x.
The stronger ur faith and donations, the more u r rewarded.
5) start making statistics on how successful the crossover project is. Interview some of the overseas convert and the foreigbn poor that have been helped.
The key is not convincing the singapore govt, but to make that the 33000 still believed in him.
This is a battle for the hearts and minds of the 33000.
Qadaffi didnt listen to my advice to use children as human shields for his tanks.Look at what happened to him.
I kind of missed the great tyrants of the past. Reading stalin, tamerlane ,and such, the current despots seem like children. The current syria president is a pale shadow of his father, who killed 20000 in homs
A single death a tragedy, a million a statistic.
Strange huh! Why their followers do not ask kong Hee to donate all his business n luxury condo n downgraded to Hdb le, He must set an example for his followers to do same thing le and not asking his followers to set example for other to follow! I thought Jesus did that.
very interesting, people actually downgrade HDB to donate to CHC.
but think KH still not that influential.
He still have not say:
"sell your body to give to the church".
"donate till your pussy and arse bleeds".
His intepretation of the bible would be:
Jesus forgive the prostitute, so God will also forgive you if (and only if) your sex derived earnings is donated to the church, otherwise you will be burn in hell.
given that majority of members are young, they can earn $500 a pop (just like the 17yr girl).
wonder why doesn't CHC open a brothel in Geylang to cater to the lower and middle class?
afterall they can spin it as part of crossover project, to reach out to the sinners, ie prostitutes and their customers.
as part of the media spin, it is sinners that need saving. those already saved need to be saved meh?
Also in brothel, have video recording equipment for future blackmail.
since the only people who can afford the $500 session are respectable members of society (you think bangla worker can pay $500 ?), he gives instructions to the temple "virgins" to record the time, the date, the place and have another member video the girl entering and the man coming out of the hotel room, for future blackmail.
sigh, KH really need a pr professional to advise him on media spin.
remember "give till your pussy and arse bleeds".
phantom_opera
01-07-12, 10:24
Aiya, I already expected liao, CHC is on the survivor program .... you must know the it is like a Ponzi scheme, if KH said "I am guilty", 30k members will suddenly become 30 members overnight, that is the end of CHC, the asset will be sold off and pay back to rich members who started to sue
Remember at one time many CEOs were members, Hyflux?? These people are waiting for legal proceedings and they have all the reasons to sue CHC to get back their $$$ ...
Our Chinese wisdom 树倒猢狲散
I think there may be no legal grounds to sue to get a donation back
Aiya, I already expected liao, CHC is on the survivor program .... you must know the it is like a Ponzi scheme, if KH said "I am guilty", 30k members will suddenly become 30 members overnight, that is the end of CHC, the asset will be sold off and pay back to rich members who started to sue
Remember at one time many CEOs were members, Hyflux?? These people are waiting for legal proceedings and they have all the reasons to sue CHC to get back their $$$ ...
Our Chinese wisdom 树倒猢狲散
......
Remember at one time many CEOs were members, Hyflux?? These people are waiting for legal proceedings and they have all the reasons to sue CHC to get back their $$$ ...
Our Chinese wisdom 树倒猢狲散
if the percentage donated is like 10% of wealth, the rich will not sue because loss of face, kena laugh at by their peers, how come you so stupid?
however if percentage wealth donated is big like 50%, then the rich will begin legal proceedings, they dont care whether kena laughed because 50% is big sum of money.
Many people seem to have misunderstood the case - This case has nothing to do with whether supporting their so-called "Cross-Over Project" is wrong or any money "lost" on paper on not (This is not even clear as the charges seem to be that there are many cash donations not recorded in their financial account that could have been used to redeem the purported "bonds"). The case has nothing to do with money lost or even if they make a lot of money for the church. Even if they have filled back all the money and even return 500% more money used back to the church, they will still be guilty if the below events are true and supported with evidence (see below).
From what I read from the news release, my understandings of the offences are that (I may be wrong but just write my thoughts here for discussions):
1) Transfer of Church funds to the 2 companies in the name of bonds' investment when they are actually not so.
2) Transfer of Church funds to purportly "redeem" the bonds' investments when they are actually not so.
3) Faked paperworks to disguise the true intentions of (1) and (2) (i.e. accounting and paperwork fraud).
4) Many cash donations are not recorded in their financial records (intention to cheat and provide fake accounting).
5) Openly state that no church money has been used in the "Cross Over Project" but the truth is otherwise after all the findings & revelations.
6) KH's company sell merchandise to church yet not declared as interested party transactions in their financial report.
They could have carry out the "Cross Over Project" legally and above the board:
1) State their intentions on "Cross Over Project" openly and get approval in their AGM and by Executive Management.
2) Get church members to donate directly to "Cross Over Project" and not use church's donations.
3) Account for expenses incurred in "Cross Over Project" openly and subject to financial statements scrutiny.
4) don't play hid and seek with cash donations, don't fake paperwork and accounting, don't fake fund transfer to fake bonds etc.
CHC is putting a tough front woh ... they said no money is lost and they are confident with Kong Hee ... one guy even wrote to scold MCYS
Garmen now very afraid of megachurch ... MM Lee will ensure something is done ... mark my words
Think I remember wrongly, (5) should read:
5) Openly state that no church money has been used to fund Sun Ho's music career but the truth is otherwise after all the findings & revelations.
Many people seem to have misunderstood the case - This case has nothing to do with whether supporting their so-called "Cross-Over Project" is wrong or any money "lost" on paper on not (This is not even clear as the charges seem to be that there are many cash donations not recorded in their financial account that could have been used to redeem the purported "bonds"). The case has nothing to do with money lost or even if they make a lot of money for the church. Even if they have filled back all the money and even return 500% more money used back to the church, they will still be guilty if the below events are true and supported with evidence (see below).
From what I read from the news release, my understandings of the offences are that (I may be wrong but just write my thoughts here for discussions):
1) Transfer of Church funds to the 2 companies in the name of bonds' investment when they are actually not so.
2) Transfer of Church funds to purportly "redeem" the bonds' investments when they are actually not so.
3) Faked paperworks to disguise the true intentions of (1) and (2) (i.e. accounting and paperwork fraud).
4) Many cash donations are not recorded in their financial records (intention to cheat and provide fake accounting).
5) Openly state that no church money has been used in the "Cross Over Project" but the truth is otherwise after all the findings & revelations.
6) KH's company sell merchandise to church yet not declared as interested party transactions in their financial report.
They could have carry out the "Cross Over Project" legally and above the board:
1) State their intentions on "Cross Over Project" openly and get approval in their AGM and by Executive Management.
2) Get church members to donate directly to "Cross Over Project" and not use church's donations.
3) Account for expenses incurred in "Cross Over Project" openly and subject to financial statements scrutiny.
4) don't play hid and seek with cash donations, don't fake paperwork and accounting, don't fake fund transfer to fake bonds etc.
Wow hopeful! Looks like kong Hee n sun ho buy your points 2,4,5! but he still maintains his integrity n does not admit his has done wrongly. Alamak! The wife wasn't charged, how to seek refuge le? Somemore, the case is about religious but about money misappropriation.
just read yahoo news. wow they convert thai teenagers.
Now they can tell the thai teenagers "donate till your pussy hurts".
as mentioned from previous post, CHC will open a branch/whorehouse in geylang to cater to sinners. the converted thai teenagers would be in missionary position to preach orally to the sinners.
"jesus forgive the prostitute, and god will forgive you too."
the rates would be.
thai teenager - $50 a pop
chinese singapore teenager - $500 a pop.
malay singapore teenager - $200 a pop.
indian singapore teenager - $100 a pop.
My admiration of KH goes up a notch.
it does not matter whether it is money appropriation, and not religious persecution. hasnt they spread rumors that CHC is too big for its own good, just like Falungong? they will spin it like that.
Strange huh! Why their followers do not ask kong Hee to donate all his business n luxury condo n downgraded to Hdb le, He must set an example for his followers to do same thing le and not asking his followers to set example for other to follow! I thought Jesus did that.
that's not how the prosperity gospel works. supposedly KH stayed in hdb before and now he is rich and have many properties. KH is the living embodiment/avatar of the prosperity gospel. he can tell sob story about how he was poor last time, but he still donate his time and money to god.
Now he is rich because god rewarded him for his faith. Remember, it is god-given wealth and not from his followers ok ;).
Now if you all followers can follow his example, give till it hurts, you would be successful too. if not rich, well that's too bad, you didnt give enough.
Note that the CHC entire argument is the church didnt lose money.
KH's battle is not with the law, but for the hearts and minds of his followers. So if he still maintained his innocence under God's law, his remaining followers at the end of the saga would all be hard-core.
What can Singapore govt do? They will definitely win the court case, but what to do with the followers.
It actually depends on them.
1) reveal any email by KH and his inner circle, calling the congregation as fools to donate to him, etc. That will reduce his congregation some more.
2) crack the inner circle and get 1 of the 5 people charge to testify against KH, reducing his followers more this time.
3) instead of email, which can deleted and encrypted, voice recording of KH calling the followers fool and saying there is no god but KH. "I am their god". etc.
however, this would reveal that govt does wiretap people and all communication, internet, fixed landline, mobile calls are all recorded by the govt. And i am not sure whether govt wants to reveal or not.
so I think 1) and 2) would suffice.
aha, nobody believes that all communication is monitored and recorded right? that works to the government advantage.
Note that the CHC entire argument is the church didnt lose money.
KH's battle is not with the law, but for the hearts and minds of his followers. So if he still maintained his innocence under God's law, his remaining followers at the end of the saga would all be hard-core.
What can Singapore govt do? They will definitely win the court case, but what to do with the followers.
It actually depends on them.
1) reveal any email by KH and his inner circle, calling the congregation as fools to donate to him, etc. That will reduce his congregation some more.
2) crack the inner circle and get 1 of the 5 people charge to testify against KH, reducing his followers more this time.
3) instead of email, which can deleted and encrypted, voice recording of KH calling the followers fool and saying there is no god but KH. "I am their god". etc.
however, this would reveal that govt does wiretap people and all communication, internet, fixed landline, mobile calls are all recorded by the govt. And i am not sure whether govt wants to reveal or not.
so I think 1) and 2) would suffice.
i believe the church lost money.
$24m spent on singing career or personal expenses and god knows what are never going to generate any meaningful returns to pay back those "bonds". Looks like they simply cook the books and transfered the debt to another (shell) company. That Aries guy is not in the inner circle and i doubt he even knows what went on.
Suddenly we got so many unofficial judges here :p
KH is still innocent bcoz his case is still pending :scared-2:
Even religion is mixed w money in Singapore. Something is v wrong w e entire system :2cents:
Interesting read:
http://temasektimes.wordpress.com/2012/06/27/an-analysis-into-the-wealth-of-city-harvest-church/
An analysis into the wealth of City Harvest*Church
Posted by temasektimes on June 27, 2012
Although I am aware that City Harvest is one of the richest churches in Singapore, I am still shocked that it is rich enough to pay $310 million dollars*for a stake in Suntec City. Nevertheless, an entity which is able to amass such wealth is certainly worth studying. I was determined to understand the secrets to the church’s wealth.
I apologize upfront if the points raised give offense to loyal followers of City Harvest Church. Please regard this article as a business analysis of the factors that contribute to the wealth of City Harvest Church, not as an insinuation that the Church got rich through questionable means. The fact is that CHC is very rich and this makes for a fascinating academic exercise to examine its sources of wealth. Just treat it as a business case study. I have tried my best to stick to the facts. Please*correct me if there are factual mistakes. However, if there are differences in opinions, please disagree with courtesy.
1. Clever packaging of Sunday services
The income of a church is dependent on the tithes collected (10% of income from church-members). Therefore, the earning power of a church is highly dependent on its ability to retain its existing church members and attract new ones.*The larger the church membership, the greater its earnings.
I watched a sample of CHC weekend service on its*website.**Compared to the boring Sunday classes I attended as a kid, CHC church service*was most refreshing*(Watch “The 10 Laws Of The Harvest”). The beginning part resembles a rock concert with good singing and enthusiastic audience. It is an entertaining way to enjoy your Sunday mornings. Going to church becomes a weekly event to look forward to rather than a chore to attend to.
With church services so well packaged for its customers, its customer retention rate and new customer acquisition figures should look good.
2. Extra revenue in the form of advertisements, sales of CDs
This church is unlike the other churches I know. It generates extra revenue through advertisements during its Sunday service (watch the videos). It sells audio CDs on its website. There is an online shopping cart for convenience to those who want to buy online.
3. Efficient collection of tithes
Church-members can pay their tithe online via credit card, eNets or even Giro!!*Once members started donating using Giro, the earnings quality of the church improves. Donation collected via Giro tend to be more stable.
With a globalised economy, people travel round the world a lot and may miss Sunday services. In the past, the churches will lose income when these members fail to turn up to pay their tithe. Now, with online payment, they can continue collecting the tithe even when the church-member is working overseas for an extended period of time. With Giro, the church can continue collecting tithes for a few more months even when the member leaves the church as people have a habit of forgetting what they pay on Giro.
4. 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on your church donations
This is where the genius of CHC lies and the secret to its superior earning power. In fact, I have yet to encounter any public-listed company on SGX, HKSE, NYSE, Nasdaq that demonstrates better potential.
The pastor preaches that God will give 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on your tithe. But, you have to be generous in your donations first so that you will receive in harvest proportions. I guess that is the origin of the name City Harvest. Please watch the*video*”The 10 Laws Of The Harvest” yourself in its entirety and interpret for yourself.
It is a message that cleverly uses an astute understanding of human nature to maximize profits.*If I were a CHC member, I will be tempted to increase my tithe as much as possible. Not mincing my words, I am doing it out of pure greed. I do not think I will be alone. It is perfectly fine if members of CHC strongly disagree and thinks that I am not representative for most of them. After all, I can only speak for myself.
5. Quality of customers
With the 100-fold return message, the kind of church members attracted will be most conducive to profit-making. Money-minded people will be attracted to the church. These money-minded people tend to be ambitious and have a great desire to make lots of money. Millionaire minds have a higher chance to become rich. Hence, the quality of customers that CHC attracts are of the highest quality. The richer the church-member, the higher is the church’s tithe per member.
Customer quality will be enhanced through the passage of time due to survivor bias. Suppose out of this pool of Millionaire-Mind Christians, 50% become satisfactorily rich and the remaining 50% still unsatisfactorily middle-class. The 50% who got rich will donate even more because they think their source of wealth comes from their donations. It is most unlikely they will cut back on their tithes *because they will be afraid God will punish them by cutting back the returns. If they are not afraid, the church will be there to warn them not to do so. The remaining 50% who did not get rich will be disillusioned and probably leave the church. The loss is of little significance to the church. These people are not rich and their tithes will not amount to much.
Many Christians will be disgusted with the concept of using tithes to get rich. These people will probably leave the church after attending a few Sunday services. Again, the loss is of little significance to CHC. These people will not be highly profitable to the church even if they are rich because they are not going to tithe as much as the others who believe their tithes is the way to wealth.
To the credit of the Pastor, I think he has devised a wonderful process of filtering out non-profitable customers and sucking in the lucrative ones. There is only so much physical space that a church can have to service its church-members. To maximize profits, the church has to ensure that each unit of space is used for servicing lucrative customers.
6. Kill off competition
CHC has tremendous economic moat that kills off competition. In the*video*“The 10 Laws of The Harvest”, the Pastor cited Law #5 “Your Seed must be planted in Good Ground” which is an effective weapon in killing off his competition – the smaller churches. Many Christians feel that they ought to donate to the*needy,*smaller churches rather than rich mega-churches like CHC. The Pastor’s argument is that you do not get good returns like 100-fold in the small churches. You have to donate to mega-churches*to maximize returns on your tithe because they have*a track record (rich church members). In other words, the seed is not planted in good ground when you donate to the small churches. In his own words,*”I don’t always give to the neediest but to the ground that will give the greatest yield”. To illustrate his point, he used an analogy on weak banks and strong banks. You do not deposit your money in a weak bank because it desperately needs fresh funds to survive. You deposit your money in a strong bank which invests your money wisely and yields good returns.
The church has an iron-grip on its members who believe its message. As illustrated previously, its customer base is of the highest quality. This is its track record. Existing church-members will definitely not move to another smaller, needier church with poorer track record.
It has a very strong economic moat as it is very hard for its competitors to get its customers to switch over.
7. Providing a place where the rich can network
As the Pastor said, his church provides a good ground on which you can grow your riches. Rightly so, indeed. For property agents or insurance agents trying to hit their sales quota, City Harvest Church will be an ideal place to hunt for lucrative clients. This church concentrates several rich and money-minded people into a single location. The church offers a unique advantage to sell things.*In a religious setting, people tend less to be on their guard and can be more easily persuaded to part with their money.
Businessmen also like to network in places where there are rich and powerful people who will come in handy in future. The Pastor has done a good job in gathering such people in his church and it makes good sense to make use of this advantage by joining the church.
The rich will attract more rich and the gathering moss snowballs to provide an ever-rising pool of donation to the church.
8. Preach what people like to hear.*
As a teenager, I was discouraged when I read Bible verses like Matthew 19:23-24*“I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”*and Matthew 6:24*“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”
It seems like if I become rich, I will be condemned to hell.
In the*video*”Rich God? Poor God?”, the Pastor preaches that it is absolutely ok to be rich. Some prophets of God were very rich. (Abraham, David, Solomon)
There is nothing more musical to a money-minded person than to hear that God is on your side in your pursuit of money. The church-members who are more money-minded will love this and donate even more.
9. God pays for the returns, not the church.*
The church collects the money, but God pays for the returns. The church does not need to pay a single cent for the 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on the donations.
This is as good as you do the work for me, but not only do I not pay you, I shall also collect your salary. You toil and sweat, but I shall eat your bread. God must surely be a miracle worker and people will pay handsomely for his service. I cannot think of a more advantageous economic position to be in to be able to collect money rendered by a miracle worker.
10. Social pressure to conform in church settings and ease of influence
If everyone around you donates, it is hard not to. When everyone else makes sacrifice, the one who does not will look like an outcast.*There is tremendous pressure to conform in such a herd setting.
11. Tremendous future earning power
Take a look at the congregation and you will notice the large number of young people. The income growth of young people is the fastest in the population. In the Pastor’s words, “You may be poor today, but you will not be poor all your life”. That is a long-term business plan in cultivating its customers.
Therefore, if CHC can be viewed as a growth stock, its prospects are very bright as its young customers will accelerate its earnings.
12. Stable earnings in times of depression
Besides being a growth stock, CHC can also be viewed as a defensive and safe stock. People pray hardest when they fall in hard times. Strangely, some people have an urge to tithe when they are in financial troubles.
In fact, in the*video*(The 10 Laws Of The Harvest), a couple came on stage. They talked about the dire straits they were in when they started out. Things change when*God challenged them to*GIVE*themselves out of poverty*(exact words from the speaker). Despite not having any money, they still pledged $250 to the building fund.*In his own words again, “we often emptied our savings to give to the House of God knowing that this will be the answer to our financial problems”. Hence, not only will the church earnings be stable in times of depression, it may even grow.
13. Using Prosperity as a theme to appeal to customers
The Pastor preaches Prosperity Gospel which resolves around money. His business genius lies in choosing this theme for his church. Money has universal appeal. Everyone worships money regardless of race, culture, age, gender, sexual orientation. In one fell swoop, he has enlarged his market to cover the entire world. It is much easier to convert people to your belief by dangling money and promising great prosperity. After all, who does not love money?
By enlarging his potential market catchment with a greater chance of increasing membership, more donations will flow in.
14. Tax benefits as church is registered as a charity
This creates a huge, unfair advantage compared to all other businesses. This is what landed CHC in*controversy. Enough has been said.
If one day the Pastor switches to become a businessman, I will definitely consider investing in the company that he heads and founds.
If City Harvest Church is listed on the Singapore Stock Exchange, I will certainly buy it. It will be one stock that I am confident of hitting a return of 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns.
PS: People tend not to question critically when it comes to religion. A charming smooth talker can easily sway minds with his interpretation of the Bible.*In the final analysis, Faith is about simply believing. You cannot approach it scientifically because there is no way to test religious theories using the scientific method. We will only know the real truth when judgment day comes.*
The danger is that there is no accountability on the part of the preacher on whether his teachings are true or not. Even he himself cannot be sure that his interpretations is 100% correct. Given human nature, the interpretations will tend to be self-serving. In fact, it is not only dangerous to the students but to the teacher as well. People will believe their own lies if it yields tempting benefits. That was how Wall Street drank its own Kool-Aid.
While I respect the Pastor for his business savvy, I cannot agree with his interpretations of the Bible. I pray for good health, peace and harmony for my family. Money-minded as I am,*I am not comfortable with*commercializing*my relationship with God by asking for money. The Christian God that I know from my own reading of the Bible is not*财神爷. Of course, if God wants to drop money from heaven on me, I will be more than happy to embrace it.
*The above article was contributed to us by the writer and was first published in 2010*here
The Christian God that I know from my own reading of the Bible is not*财神爷. Of course, if God wants to drop money from heaven on me, I will be more than happy to embrace it.
Up to now The Christian God I know is my 财神爷.
When I tell people about my 2 Bedroom Southbank, they always say I am lucky, little did they know My Christian God is the 财神爷.
You see when I become a Christian I pray to him to show me the way and I will follow what he want me to do. I told him about my problem and I let him guide me.
Matthew 7:7
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."
http://temasektimes.wordpress.com/2012/07/01/photos-chc-members-pray-for-kong-hee-during-sunday-service-this-morning/
PHOTOS: CHC members pray for Kong Hee during Sunday service this*morning
http://temasektimes.wordpress.com/2012/07/01/kong-hee-receives-standing-ovation-for-10-minutes-from-6000-chc-members-who-rally-behind-him/
Kong Hee receives standing ovation for 10 minutes from 6,000 CHC members who rally behind him
Posted by temasektimes on July 1, 2012
Disgraced founder of City Harvest Church (CHC) pastor Kong Hee may be in the public spotlight for the wrong reasons lately, but he still commands strong support among loyal CHC members, judging from their response during a church service yesterday evening at the Singapore Expo Hall 1.
Over 6,000 people packed into the hall with a capacity of 5,000 as they listen to Pastor Kong Hee defends himself against the charges slapped on him.
Speaking to his flock yesterday, Kong Hee maintained his ‘integrity’ and said defiantly that he is waiting to have his ‘say’ in court next month.
As he spoke on stage, his supporters below unfurled banners with the words ‘We love Kong Hee!’ and shouted in unison – ‘Pastor, we love you!’.
After he ended his speech, the crowd gave him a standing ovation for 10 minutes to express their support for him.
According to some CHC members we spoke to, many of them genuinely believe that Kong Hee was ‘wrongly’ charged and it was simply a ‘misunderstanding’ which will clear up with time.
CHC has rallied around Kong Hee by issuing an official statement earlier on its website that they stood behind him and he will remain a senior pastor at the church, in stark contrast to the measures taken by Buddhist charity Ren Ci which removed its founder Ming Yi from its Board immediately after he was charged for criminal breach of trust.
The strong show of support from CHC appears to unsettle some in the establishment with PAP MP Sam Tan coming out to soothe frayed nerves, saying that he ‘empathized’ with CHC members and that their support for Kong Hee is ‘understandable’.
When Kong Hee was first charged on Wednesday, over 200 CHC members turned up outside the Subordinate Courts to express their support for him.
As CHC continues to stand firm behind Kong Hee and rally the ‘troops’ on his behalf, more will expect to step forward publicly to defend and protect him in the days to come.
http://temasektimes.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/ex-chc-member-celebrity-culture-in-city-harvest-church-does-not-fit-into-biblical-principles/
Ex-CHC member: ‘Celebrity culture’ in City Harvest Church does not fit into biblical principles
Posted by temasektimes on June 30, 2012
http://temasektimes.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/my-unpleasant-experience-at-city-harvest-church-after-being-brought-there-by-a-female-friend/
My unpleasant experience at City Harvest Church after being brought there by a female friend
Posted by temasektimes on June 29, 2012
http://temasektimes.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/city-harvest-church-issues-warning-we-will-deal-with-the-media-in-due-course/
City Harvest Church issues warning: We will ‘deal’ with the media in due*course
Posted by temasektimes on June 29, 2012
Singapore’s largest church City Harvest Church (CHC) had issued an ominous warning to the media for portraying its beloved pastor Kong Hee in a negative light.
Kong Hee was charged on Wednesday of three counts of misusing the church’s funds to further the music career of his singer wife Ho Yeow Sun.
In a statement issued on its website,*Bobby Chaw, the pastor in charge of missions at CHC expresses his disappointment with some of the media’s coverage so far, particularly in relation to the COC inquiry.
“In some instances, they seem to have pre-judged us. We will be dealing with this in due course,” he says, without elaborating on it.
Meanwhile, there appears to be a concerted efforts by CHC members to counter the negative publicity online by speaking up in defence of Kong Hee and CHC on social media.
http://temasektimes.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/pap-hands-out-olive-branch-to-chc-it-is-understandable-for-the-church-to-support-its-leaders/
PAP hands out ‘olive branch’ to CHC: It is ‘understandable’ for the church to support its*leaders
Posted by temasektimes on June 29, 2012
........
"Kong Hee is represented by PAP MP for Moulmein-Kallang GRC Edwin Tong. According to unverified rumors circulating on the internet, a few ministers and MPs are members of CHC as well. "
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120628-355832/2.html
$50.6m: Amount of funds misused
By Ethan Lou
my paper
Thursday, Jun 28, 2012
..........
"
The five were represented by notable lawyers, including Kong's lawyer, Mr Edwin Tong, who is a partner at Allen & Gledhill and an MP for Moulmein- Kallang GRC; and Senior Counsel Lok Vi Ming, a partner at Rodyk and Davidson who is the lawyer for Chew.
The five accused are out on $500,000 police bail and their passports have been impounded.
They are due to return to court in four weeks' time, on July 25.
For conspiracy to commit criminal breach of trust by agent, they may face life imprisonment if convicted."
getting more and more news on this topic....
Good....the more support tat CONMAN got the longer sentence he will get in the end. Something need to be done to stop this kind of brainwash. Maybe that's the intention of the relief pastor. :D :D
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120628-355832/2.html
$50.6m: Amount of funds misused
By Ethan Lou
my paper
Thursday, Jun 28, 2012
..........
"
The five were represented by notable lawyers, including Kong's lawyer, Mr Edwin Tong, who is a partner at Allen & Gledhill and an MP for Moulmein- Kallang GRC; and Senior Counsel Lok Vi Ming, a partner at Rodyk and Davidson who is the lawyer for Chew.
The five accused are out on $500,000 police bail and their passports have been impounded.
They are due to return to court in four weeks' time, on July 25.
For conspiracy to commit criminal breach of trust by agent, they may face life imprisonment if convicted."
I can c that you are quite fed-up with CHC. Actually the rumors of key church members siphoning off donations for own benefits have been on-going for >10 years if you follow HWZ threads. Not sure why the authorities only take action now to charge the key members. Be a Commissioner of Charities if you wish to uncover more suspected cases.
TheOnlyGayInTheVillage
02-07-12, 09:55
Money should never be mixed with faith. just like with family and friends. God brought us into this world with nothing. so shall it be when we leave it.
I can c that you are quite fed-up with CHC. Actually the rumors of key church members siphoning off donations for own benefits have been on-going for >10 years if you follow HWZ threads. Not sure why the authorities only take action now to charge the key members. Be a Commissioner of Charities if you wish to uncover more suspected cases. Ya, Hardwarezone flooded with comments.
Just read this over there..., extract: This guy damn solid, Politicians should learn from him how to brainwash voters...
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/gvgt-city-harvest-kong-hee-most-legendary-speech-3797430.html
GVGT city harvest kong hee the most legendary speech
"What we give every week is the measure of the value that you place on your Lord and your saviour Jesus Christ,” he told the crowd. “We can lift up our hands to worship god, but if the tithes are still in our pockets, then due tribute has not been given. Then our praises are empty. Our words are empty. There is no value to back it up.”
http://youtu.be/PFL-C2Lsaig
not just CHC la...
other big church also ask member to donate money to build mega building...
Regulators
02-07-12, 16:50
I think they should investigate those temples more. I know of people who take money out of temple to use and put back like nothing has happened. At least City Harvest helps to build schools in other undeveloped countries and reach out to the needy. I know a lot who go to temples just to get 4D number
Hear his sermon in Presence Conference 2012 in Sydney. Here's an audio recording an US critic made
http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012 ... asses.html (http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/04/kong-hees-fleecing-of-the-masses.html)
The whole speech is like a sales speech and he kept preaching people to give, give and give until 'empty everything you got"!:eek:
Asking people to use credit card to give offerings! giving from what you don't have yet!! asking you to take credits!:eek:
Oh No, is this Christianity? they preached for people to give generously (all if possible) even if they were in debt as he was. It does not matter if people will sink deeper into debt!:eek:
Are you one of the CHC follower? I'd like to hear CHC member's point of view about his preaching about 'the more you give' the more return you got '.
I think they should investigate those temples more. I know of people who take money out of temple to use and put back like nothing has happened. At least City Harvest helps to build schools in other undeveloped countries and reach out to the needy. I know a lot who go to temples just to get 4D number
:eek::doh::scared-1:
http://youtu.be/PFL-C2Lsaig
also heard ppl had to borrow to donate. this is ridiculous. is it just to secure a ticket to heaven??
I think they should investigate those temples more. I know of people who take money out of temple to use and put back like nothing has happened. At least City Harvest helps to build schools in other undeveloped countries and reach out to the needy. I know a lot who go to temples just to get 4D number
getting 4D is for personal gain only. this ass is better than striking 4D. he is winning every week!!! without even paying for 4D ticket.
also heard ppl had to borrow to donate. this is ridiculous. is it just to secure a ticket to heaven?? Their online donations include eNets, credits cards:
https://secure.chc.org.sg/donation/
Giro monthly donations is encouraged...as in this article below:
Ex-CHC members reveal pressure to donate 'as much as we can'
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/-pastor-kong-was-our-role-model--20120629.html
sophisticated & highly organised $y$tem
:scared-1:
I really wonder what is in CHC members' minds? Are they really believed in whatever he said or rather he preached? :scared-1:
Did I hear wrongly? I thought I hear something like the value that you place on your Jesus Crist is a measure of how much you give? You have to back up with what you give (Money) just like gold back up dollar value.
Does he mean God has the same value as money?
I have not seen/heard anyone like him in my entire life who can preach for money to the Max!
The more I read about this, the more I'm dumbfounded...
Did u read they manage to get a new recruit to do "tongue talk" in the 1st session ? Did u read they get the entire congregation to "tongue talk" to pray for his wife's success in US ? How ridiculous is that ??!
Are the members of CHC really "that" brainwashed until like that ?? :confused:
Honestly I felt very very sorry for the 30,000 members ...
The more I read about this, the more I'm dumbfounded...
Did u read they manage to get a new recruit to do "tongue talk" in the 1st session ? Did u read they get the entire congregation to "tongue talk" to pray for his wife's success in US ? How ridiculous is that ??!
Are the members of CHC really "that" brainwashed until like that ?? :confused:
Honestly I felt very very sorry for the 30,000 members ...
My colleague donates 30% of her pay every month. I'm not sure how she feels about the whole incident. She is those gullible type.
A lot of the members will be emotionally scarred for the rest of their lives if the rumours turn out to be true.
As of now, KH and gang are still innocent :p We may not have that many street robbers like JB, but the scale of our white collar crimes wins JB hands down.
My colleague donates 30% of her pay every month. I'm not sure how she feels about the whole incident. She is those gullible type.
A lot of the members will be emotionally scarred for the rest of their lives if the rumours turn out to be true.
As of now, KH and gang are still innocent :p We may not have that many street robbers like JB, but the scale of our white collar crimes wins JB hands down.
That's right. White collar crime won hands down. No caning. Amount stolen is bigger
For robbery, criminals can be caned. Not worth it.
As for your colleague, if she is disillusioned with KH,ask her to turn to hopeful ok. I only ask for 5% of her pay every month. I hope she remains gullible.
That's right. White collar crime won hands down. No caning. Amount stolen is bigger
For robbery, criminals can be caned. Not worth it.
As for your colleague, if she is disillusioned with KH,ask her to turn to hopeful ok. I only ask for 5% of her pay every month. I hope she remains gullible.
A lot of them are very legally, like charging house buyers for exceptionally large air-con ledges, paying themselves large bonus instead of spending money on maintenance etc.
That's right. White collar crime won hands down. No caning. Amount stolen is bigger
For robbery, criminals can be caned. Not worth it.
As for your colleague, if she is disillusioned with KH,ask her to turn to hopeful ok. I only ask for 5% of her pay every month. I hope she remains gullible.
Maybe she will increase her contribution to 40% to help KH and gang. You never know the state of their mind after years of brain-washing by KH and gang.
The more I read about this, the more I'm dumbfounded...
Did u read they manage to get a new recruit to do "tongue talk" in the 1st session ? Did u read they get the entire congregation to "tongue talk" to pray for his wife's success in US ? How ridiculous is that ??!
Are the members of CHC really "that" brainwashed until like that ?? :confused:
Honestly I felt very very sorry for the 30,000 members ...
Sorry why u feel sorry? Dont we always say fools and their money are soon parted?
Sorry why u feel sorry? Dont we always say fools and their money are soon parted?
A lot of members are rich elites okay? :eek:
Actually, back to baser instincts. If kh ask his female followers for sex, would they do so?
What do u all think? I want to know the extemt of brainwashing.
Would the female followers feel delighted that she has been chosen to service kh ?
A lot of members are rich elites okay? :eek:
Err, so the more we shouldnt feel sorry?
Err, so the more we shouldnt feel sorry?
Yup, no need to feel sorry for them. I doubt they need our consolation because they gave their money willingly, and they might be embarrassed that you feel sorry for them.
Actually, back to baser instincts. If kh ask his female followers for sex, would they do so?
What do u all think? I want to know the extemt of brainwashing.
Would the female followers feel delighted that she has been chosen to service kh ?
Your quest is bordering on something very sensitive. You want to lim teh by KH and gang's lawyers?
Your quest is bordering on something very sensitive. You want to lim teh by KH and gang's lawyers?
Oh no, i will be ****ed till my arse hurts.:)
Is sex a sensitive topic? Or accusing kh of such thing is sensitive, but saying kh misused the donatiom is not sensitive? Since it is already stated in the media.
Can u ask ur gullible friend on my behalf? If u dont want to ask, pm me her number and i will make expensive idd call to ur frirnd to find out her answer.
Infact, the govt should have some ladies saying that they have been raped by kh, this will bring his image down.
The remaining hardcore will say these women are temptress and will rally around kh.
Ultimate brainwash and sacrifice:
http://brainz.org/10-most-notorious-suicide-cults-history/
Oh no, i will be ****ed till my arse hurts.:)
Is sex a sensitive topic? Or accusing kh of such thing is sensitive, but saying kh misused the donatiom is not sensitive? Since it is already stated in the media.
Can u ask ur gullible friend on my behalf? If u dont want to ask, pm me her number and i will make expensive idd call to ur frirnd to find out her answer.
Infact, the govt should have some ladies saying that they have been raped by kh, this will bring his image down.
The remaining hardcore will say these women are temptress and will rally around kh.
Juz teasing you. Lawyers can be hired to twist and turns words against you for defamation. Simple words we glossed over can have big meaning in law. E.g. at a glance do you know the difference between capital protected and capital guaranteed? Brain-washing 30,000 people from all walks of life for so many years is no easy feat. If this is true, either KH is a genius or something is lacking in our society.
Ya right, then serve them right!
Yup, no need to feel sorry for them. I doubt they need our consolation because they gave their money willingly, and they might be embarrassed that you feel sorry for them.
I heard someone's sister gave 40% of her salary! Can't she use 40% to invest instead? Might have believed to give 40% and will get even more return!
My colleague donates 30% of her pay every month. I'm not sure how she feels about the whole incident. She is those gullible type.
A lot of the members will be emotionally scarred for the rest of their lives if the rumours turn out to be true.
As of now, KH and gang are still innocent :p We may not have that many street robbers like JB, but the scale of our white collar crimes wins JB hands down.
Got big differences lah between white collar WC crime and robbery R crime:
1) For WC crime no life danger, whereas for R crime, you may die a terrible death, or humiliated badly that you want to kill yourself or really commit suicide.
2) For WC crime, you pay willingly, so many people cannot complain. For R crime, you are not willing to pay but forced to.
3) For WC crime like this case, the person receiving it still benefits from going to heaven, god will look after them and bestore them even more money to be richer (at least you see or perceived the benefits right?) :beats-me-man: For R crime, you not only become poorer, the worst is you may even lose your life!
What else are the differences....? :p
So, R crimes and other violent crimes and "blue-collar" crimes still much much worse than "white-collar" crimes right? :D
That's right. White collar crime won hands down. No caning. Amount stolen is bigger
For robbery, criminals can be caned. Not worth it.
As for your colleague, if she is disillusioned with KH,ask her to turn to hopeful ok. I only ask for 5% of her pay every month. I hope she remains gullible.
My colleague donates 30% of her pay every month. I'm not sure how she feels about the whole incident. She is those gullible type.
A lot of the members will be emotionally scarred for the rest of their lives if the rumours turn out to be true.
As of now, KH and gang are still innocent :p We may not have that many street robbers like JB, but the scale of our white collar crimes wins JB hands down.
http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120702-356567.html
By Adrian Lim
my paper
Monday, Jul 02, 2012 CITY Harvest Church members rallied over the weekend, with 14,000 people attending English and Chinese worship services.
Some 13,500 packed the English services at Singapore Expo's Max Atria yesterday morning and Saturday evening. Church founding pastor Kong Hee, 47, preached at both services.
His deputy, Tan Ye Peng, 39, preached at a Chinese service in Jurong West yesterday.
Both men and three other church leaders were charged in court last Wednesday with allegedly misappropriating funds worth $50.6 million.
Of this, $24 million was allegedly misused from the church's building fund, largely to fund the music career of singer Ho Yeow Sun, Kong's wife. The church is a registered charity.
A City Harvest spokesman said the Commissioner of Charities was aware that Kong and Tan were preaching yesterday.
About 45 minutes before yesterday's 10am service, Kong tweeted: "Give me strength for today, Lord."
At the sermon's start, he said last Saturday's service was "great" and added: "God, how am I going to replicate what happened (on Saturday)?"
Still, yesterday's service was lively, with Kong receiving at least two standing ovations.
Kong, who appeared mostly calm and pensive, reiterated his Saturday messages. For instance, he said: "I do maintain my integrity."
He also said: "You have no idea how broken I feel, standing before all of you. I just want to be here to thank you for your love and support for me, for Sun, for the leadership."
He ended his sermon by inviting on stage his wife, who led the congregation in worship songs.
For the finale, he chose an old favourite, Father Make Us One.
After the service, Kong tweeted "the answer to prayer is in the knocking", quoting text from the Bible.
A church-goer of nine years, Abel, 23, told my paper that yesterday's service was no different from those of other weeks, although there was an emphasis on church unity.
Tan said at the Chinese service he had been under tremendous stress for the past two years, Lianhe Wanbao reported.
He was alluding to investigations starting back in 2010.
However, Tan said he had been coping through prayers.
[email protected]
Didn't they preach that the more you donate, the closer you will be able to reach the heaven and the god?
But to extrapolate further in this manner, it also means that all the rich will be able to live happily in heaven when they die since they have more money to donate to the god (ops, wrong, is the church) than the poor? :(
also heard ppl had to borrow to donate. this is ridiculous. is it just to secure a ticket to heaven??
Didn't they preach that the more you donate, the closer you will be able to reach the heaven and the god?
But to extrapolate further in this manner, it also means that all the rich will be able to live happily in heaven when they die since they have more money to donate to the god (ops, wrong, is the church) than the poor? :(
Not too sure about in heaven. But on earth most rich people do live happily.
Even as thousands continued to show up at City Harvest Church at their second English service this weekend, caution has started to seep into parts of its congregation about church donations.
Several adults were seen accompanying their teenage children during the service but remaining seated and silent throughout the service. When Yahoo! spoke to some outside the conference hall, they said they were not churchgoers but parents of youths who attended service regularly.
“I’m still okay with my son going for service at CHC – he’s grown up and it’s his choice, but I was worried when I found out you could make donations through credit card (https://secure.chc.org.sg/donation/creditcard/index.asp)– he uses our supplementary card and I’m not comfortable with him donating to a church that I personally wish was more accountable,” said a bank executive, 56, who wanted to be known as Mr Lim.
Another parent, Mdm Sally Low, 48, said she had attended to “hear Pastor Kong’s side of the story”.
“The newspapers are saying one thing, but my daughter says it’s not true. So I’m here to make sure my daughter doesn’t anyhow (sic) believe everything she hears,” said the mother of a 16-year-old churchgoer.
The service at Singapore Expo was predictably packed, with every seat in the 8,000-capacity hall filled and rooms nearby occupied by hundreds of other supporters and curious onlookers.
In a repeat of Saturday’s two-hour service (http://sg.news.yahoo.com/i-maintain-my-integrity--kong-hee.html), the same two testimonies were delivered by a member with the Crossover Project and a back-up dancer who attributed her conversion to Christianity to Sun and the opportunity to perform on her controversial music video, "China Wine".
Kong and Sun were seen to tear several times while speaking to the crowd and singing worship songs, but looked considerably more comfortable than their first, tense appearance an evening earlier when Kong spoke up publicly for the first time to declare that he maintained his integrity.
Most CHC members declined to comment when approached after the service, only saying that they were “standing by Pastor Kong” and “didn’t want to feed the media frenzy”.
During Saturday’s service, Kong had told the congregation that he would be putting off hospital visits and meeting sessions for “a few weeks”, explaining that he wanted to avoid a situation where reporters might tail him in hospitals and inconvenience those he was there to help.
“We know that whatever we say, people will judge us. So we just pray that his innocence will come to light – as long as we believe, it doesn’t matter what people outside the church think,” said 16-year-old Annie Tsang, who was seen crying emotionally when Kong took to the stage to thank his flock for their prayers and support on Sunday morning.
CHC has thrown its weight behind its founder Kong Hee and the four other key members who were charged Wednesday (http://sg.news.yahoo.com/city-harvest-founder-arrested-for-allegedly-misuing-church-funds.html) over alleged misuse of the charity’s funds.
In a statement (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150906511472934&set=a.106297597933.96699.93889432933&type=1&theater) released by executive pastor Aries Zulkarnain on Thursday evening, the church stated that it is standing by the five individuals.
"The people currently in the news are our pastors and trusted staff and leaders who have always put God and CHC first," he said. "As a church we stand with them and I believe fully in their integrity."
The statement also said that Kong, 47, and his deputy pastor Tan Ye Peng, 39, who both face charges of criminal breach of trust, will continue preaching at the megachurch.
Addressing the current charges (http://sg.news.yahoo.com/city-harvest-founder-arrested-for-allegedly-misuing-church-funds.html) that stand against the five accused leaders, Zulkarnain maintained that the church did not lose any money in the transactions detailed in the charges, which list two separate amounts of S$24 million and a further S$26.6 million.
"The S$24 million, which went into investment bonds, was returned to the church in full, with interest... The church did not lose any funds in the relevant transactions, and no personal profit was gained by the individuals concerned," he said.
In response to the church’s statement, the Attorney-General’s Chambers (AGC) said, “We wish to reiterate that as criminal charges are now before the court and will be subject to adjudication by the court; and that as such, neither the prosecution nor any other party should comment on issues which will be subject to adjudication and on which evidence will be led in court.”
Cor. 9:7 Everyone must make up his own mind as to how much he should give. Don't force anyone to give more than he really wants to, for cheerful givers are the ones God prizes.
I really wonder what is in CHC members' minds? Are they really believed in whatever he said or rather he preached? :scared-1:
I call it blind faith.
I heard someone's sister gave 40% of her salary! Can't she use 40% to invest instead? Might have believed to give 40% and will get even more return!
Well they give so they fell good. its the price to pay. take it like call 1900-GOD line lor...
Where can I buy a brain washing machine and be powerful to spin money?
http://www.heprayed.com/PracticalDevotions/41
http://www.heprayed.com/PracticalDevotions/41
Dear all, we can post all that we want to show that chc is a cult and/or to show prosperity teacing is false, but it would not make any difference to the members.
They are circling the wagons, us against the world mentality.
They have faith in their pastors.
The way to break their faith is for the leadership to turn one against the other, for one of the circle to denounce the rest, to denounce prosperity teaching and to denounce chc itself.
It is up to game theory practioners in the govt to break the leadership unless the leadership is to quote benjamin franklin 'we must all hang together or most assuredly we shall all hang separately'.
Something strange is going on in Singapore in recent years. This suspected religious leader after money is one of the latest. There are more:
http://ummieabiworld.blogspot.sg/2011/11/drowning-sorrows-in-bedok-reservoir.html
Regulators
03-07-12, 15:47
i am not a CHC follower
Are you one of the CHC follower? I'd like to hear CHC member's point of view about his preaching about 'the more you give' the more return you got '.
Regulators
03-07-12, 15:55
you have to believe what the bible says to appreciate the part about giving. From what i understand, giving 10% of one's earnings to God's kingdom (i.e. The God Christians believe) is biblical, which means whatever you earn, you give back 10% and God will multiply back to you manifold (may or may not be financially, but in many aspects of one's life). Think many members in CHC are blessed so they are supporting their leaders. I think Kong Hee is generally a good leader, but i don't like his wife. Think she has brought upon her husband's downfall. She called herself a pastor and even preached in sermons before during the beginning of CHC and when she became a singer, she said she never was. That seemed dubious. She also did a masters degree in counselling saying that was her calling so why the heck did she later become a singer?
I really wonder what is in CHC members' minds? Are they really believed in whatever he said or rather he preached? :scared-1:
you have to believe what the bible says to appreciate the part about giving. From what i understand, giving 10% of one's earnings to God's kingdom (i.e. The God Christians believe) is biblical, which means whatever you earn, you give back 10% and God will multiply back to you manifold (may or may not be financially, but in many aspects of one's life). Think many members in CHC are blessed so they are supporting their leaders. I think Kong Hee is generally a good leader, but i don't like his wife. Think she has brought upon her husband's downfall. She called herself a pastor and even preached in sermons before during the beginning of CHC and when she became a singer, she said she never was. That seemed dubious. She also did a masters degree in counselling saying that was her calling so why the heck did she later become a singer?
why must be 10%? shouldn't giving is by own willingness? so god will reward according to how much a person gave?
Where can I buy a brain washing machine and be powerful to spin money?
Diamond drums da best
Well they give so they fell good. its the price to pay. take it like call 1900-GOD line lor...
Not much diff from giving 10c coin to sch children on flag day... to feel good. Although some just wanna get rid of small change. LOL
you have to believe what the bible says to appreciate the part about giving. From what i understand, giving 10% of one's earnings to God's kingdom (i.e. The God Christians believe) is biblical, which means whatever you earn, you give back 10% and God will multiply back to you manifold (may or may not be financially, but in many aspects of one's life). Think many members in CHC are blessed so they are supporting their leaders. I think Kong Hee is generally a good leader, but i don't like his wife. Think she has brought upon her husband's downfall. She called herself a pastor and even preached in sermons before during the beginning of CHC and when she became a singer, she said she never was. That seemed dubious. She also did a masters degree in counselling saying that was her calling so why the heck did she later become a singer?
10 years ago, my colleague called her Pastor Ho.
Heard she was called e singing pastor.
Huh! You really believe him?:scared-1:
Let's look at what are in the bibles:
Jesus clearly said: “Do NOT store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal." (Matthew 6:19-20)
Keep falsehood and lies far from me;
give me neither poverty nor riches,
but give me only my daily bread.
Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you
and say, ‘Who is the Lord?’
Or I may become poor and steal,
and so dishonor the name of my God.
(Proverbs 30:8-9)
The Bible clearly exhorts us to "Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things." (Colossians 3:2)
It goes even further in the opposite direction from these prosperity-gospel preachers, when setting the tone for faithful Christian living: In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus WILL BE PERSECUTED, (2 Timothy 3:12)
" Prosperity preachers tend to live lavish lifestyles with fancy cars, large houses, expensive clothes. Jesus did not do this. He did not even carry a penny on him (Matt 22:19). He had no place to live. “Jesus replied, ‘Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.’” (Luke 9:58). "
you have to believe what the bible says to appreciate the part about giving. From what i understand, giving 10% of one's earnings to God's kingdom (i.e. The God Christians believe) is biblical, which means whatever you earn, you give back 10% and God will multiply back to you manifold (may or may not be financially, but in many aspects of one's life). Think many members in CHC are blessed so they are supporting their leaders. I think Kong Hee is generally a good leader, but i don't like his wife. Think she has brought upon her husband's downfall. She called herself a pastor and even preached in sermons before during the beginning of CHC and when she became a singer, she said she never was. That seemed dubious. She also did a masters degree in counselling saying that was her calling so why the heck did she later become a singer?
Read this on Channelnewsasia forum:
http://forum.channelnewsasia.com/showth ... nning-HOGC (http://forum.channelnewsasia.com/showthread.php?119116-Kong-Hee-amp-the-breed.-It-s-not-the-end-of-CHC-it-s-only-the-beginning-HOGC)
Sad to read this!
Parents, please watch out for your children.
you have to believe what the bible says to appreciate the part about giving. From what i understand, giving 10% of one's earnings to God's kingdom (i.e. The God Christians believe) is biblical, which means whatever you earn, you give back 10% and God will multiply back to you manifold (may or may not be financially, but in many aspects of one's life). Think many members in CHC are blessed so they are supporting their leaders. I think Kong Hee is generally a good leader, but i don't like his wife. Think she has brought upon her husband's downfall. She called herself a pastor and even preached in sermons before during the beginning of CHC and when she became a singer, she said she never was. That seemed dubious. She also did a masters degree in counselling saying that was her calling so why the heck did she later become a singer?
I read somewhere this 10% thing is a total misunderstanding of the bible. Do a search.
I read somewhere the 10% amount is based on an Old Testament practice of giving 10% of your produce.
This amount is still recommended today by many churches. But of course this is voluntary, and beside there are other ways to give back to the church beside monetary contributions, e.g. serving in ministries, cooking refreshments, flower offerings, etc.
The bible said to give one-tithe from the first of all your produce. Seems a bit contradictory to be tithing through credit card ie. giving from what you don't have yet.:tsk-tsk:
I read somewhere this 10% thing is a total misunderstanding of the bible. Do a search.
phantom_opera
03-07-12, 21:24
布施越大，功德越大？？
达摩祖师东来，见梁武帝。 梁武帝问「朕一生造寺度僧，布施设斋，有何功德？」 达摩言：「实无功德！」:D
Regulators
03-07-12, 21:28
It is in the bible, not determined by man. It is called tithing. Whatever is beyond 10% is called offering.
why must be 10%? shouldn't giving is by own willingness? so god will reward according to how much a person gave?
Why 10% not 20% or 5%? I suppose this is tax system to support christian teachings/missionaries?
Regulators
03-07-12, 21:43
There is a branch of christian teaching called biblical economics. CHC is influenced by an evangelist called John Avanzini (think I got the spelling wrong) that preaches the principle of sowing money into God's kingdom and be blessed abundantly by it. He advocates that there is nothing wrong with christians making lots of money, but must return to God's kingdom and society. I personally see nothing wrong with christian leaders being rich and living a good life, but that lifestyle has to be proportionate to the work they do in growing the church and helping the needy. If you look at chc, they have done these two things very well, only problem is when sun ho started her music career and needed funds to push her career forward, things went terribly wrong.
I see very wrong with christian leaders being rich and living a good life by using the Church money like giving himself big fat salary from Church (from the donation) or benefited from the Church activities or selling his business to Church. Why not selling his business to others? doesn't he know conflict of interest? why he does not make efforts to avoid that which will draw scrutiny? Can he manage to sell his business @ 3M in public?
Also, why he asked people to give until empty, how come he doesn't give until empty then?:doh:
From the way he preached, I can't help to think that, you can use money to buy the value that you place on Jesus Christ!!!:scared-1: Anything wrong with that? Sounds very wrong to me!
There is a branch of christian teaching called biblical economics. CHC is influenced by an evangelist called John Avanzini (think I got the spelling wrong) that preaches the principle of sowing money into God's kingdom and be blessed abundantly by it. He advocates that there is nothing wrong with christians making lots of money, but must return to God's kingdom and society. I personally see nothing wrong with christian leaders being rich and living a good life, but that lifestyle has to be proportionate to the work they do in growing the church and helping the needy. If you look at chc, they have done these two things very well, only problem is when sun ho started her music career and needed funds to push her career forward, things went terribly wrong.
Tithing is not mandatory, it's voluntary. CHC made it sound like mandatory. And it pressures members to give to the last dollar. This is clearly wrong. Even from a Christian's point of view.
And CHC nothing wrong " growing the church and helping the needed"? It is not growing the church. It's growing his ego and personal wealth. Helping the needed ? Every cult sure has some part "to help the needed", part of the cover.
You made it sound like all KH did wrong was marrying the wrong woman. And living in a 9mil apartment off the givings of the people is acceptable ?
There is a branch of christian teaching called biblical economics. CHC is influenced by an evangelist called John Avanzini (think I got the spelling wrong) that preaches the principle of sowing money into God's kingdom and be blessed abundantly by it. He advocates that there is nothing wrong with christians making lots of money, but must return to God's kingdom and society. I personally see nothing wrong with christian leaders being rich and living a good life, but that lifestyle has to be proportionate to the work they do in growing the church and helping the needy. If you look at chc, they have done these two things very well, only problem is when sun ho started her music career and needed funds to push her career forward, things went terribly wrong.
also not forgetting the sentosa cove saga!
how could a pastor live in such luxury with donations from its members?
this is definitely not right! :tongue3:
this fella is clearly abusing the system.
i believe our gahmen would not waste time on something if they do not have concrete evidence to nail this fella.....:cheers6:
you think PAP government is jealous of CHC?
to start with:
1) PAP introduce or raise any taxes, people raise a stink
CHC ask members for more donations, members cant wait to donate more and more.
2) PAP marketing is property price sure increase, more good years etc, which it does fulfill.
CHC marketing is god will reward you 100x, which doesnt seem to fulfill nor promise of heaven, which it cannot proof.
3) PAP pay ministers high high, people raise a stink.
CHC pastor owe many properties, people keep quiet.
any more differences you all can think of?
you think PAP government is jealous of CHC?
to start with:
1) PAP introduce or raise any taxes, people raise a stink
CHC ask members for more donations, members cant wait to donate more and more.
2) PAP marketing is property price sure increase, more good years etc, which it does fulfill.
CHC marketing is god will reward you 100x, which doesnt seem to fulfill nor promise of heaven, which it cannot proof.
3) PAP pay ministers high high, people raise a stink.
CHC pastor owe many properties, people keep quiet.
any more differences you all can think of?
MM wife dont dress provocatively as geisha nor yo yo with hip hop celebrities. or rather she neednt do that to get her point across.
also not forgetting the sentosa cove saga!
how could a pastor live in such luxury with donations from its members?
this is definitely not right! :tongue3:
this fella is clearly abusing the system.
i believe our gahmen would not waste time on something if they do not have concrete evidence to nail this fella.....:cheers6:
the mass media did report he started out in tampines hdb flat and upgraded step by step... however there seem to be a black hole in the step suddenly can afford sentosa penthouse. recent article feature addy lee owner of monsoon hair salon as his neighbour. however that guy owns a chain of salons so its definitely plausible as a business man with good relation and backing by mediacorp.
He stayed at Horizon Tower in 2005
he paid $1m in 2005
the mass media did report he started out in tampines hdb flat and upgraded step by step... however there seem to be a black hole in the step suddenly can afford sentosa penthouse. recent article feature addy lee owner of monsoon hair salon as his neighbour. however that guy owns a chain of salons so its definitely plausible as a business man with good relation and backing by mediacorp.
how is it possible if u are a pastor living in 5rm hdb moving to sentosa cove in a short period of time?
surely something must b wrong somewhere!
By 2007
he co owned 13 units at The Horizon Tower and hoped to hv them enbloc
how is it possible if u are a pastor living in 5rm hdb moving to sentosa cove in a short period of time?
surely something must b wrong somewhere!
Yup, something is wrong. By rights he should already be staying in GCB instead of lowly sentosa cove if not because financing the wife's musical adventure :-)
Anyway, we dont know how arrangememt is made. He can be trustee for the church and he bought using his name instead of church's name.
Afterall the taiwanese lady supposedly have strong backers to buy an entire block at reflections.
hopeful, u know this Pak Wahju?
The man who gave CHC $600,000 'love gift'
Indonesian says he's friends with City Harvest founder. -TNP
Koh Hui Theng
Sun, Jul 01, 2012
The New Paper
SINGAPORE - Just who is Mr Wahju Hanafi?
He's an Indonesian businessman, a City Harvest Church (CHC) member and a long-time friend of church founder Kong Hee.
He is also the man who made a "love gift" to the church - a $600,000 donation to the church's building fund. The money was "intended for specific pastors and employees".
Mr Wahju's name cropped up in the Commissioner of Charities' statement on Tuesday, after an inquiry into financial irregularities at the church.
Where and how his donation was spent became part of the investigation.
Mr Wahju's name popped up again when The New Paper checked on Kong's last-known address.
He was registered as the joint owner of a posh Sentosa Cove penthouse, which Kong's family calls home.
Mr Wahju, 52, confirmed to TNP over the phone from Papua New Guinea (PNG) yesterday that he has a Sentosa property at Ocean Drive, but does not live there.
He said: "I've known Kong Hee for about 20 years. We're friends...
"I heard about what happened to him (on Tuesday) from reports."
But he did not answer when asked about how he felt upon learning of Kong's arrest.
By all accounts, Mr Wahju is a man of great wealth, with business interests spanning from California in the US to Capetown in South Africa.
There's also the glass factory, PT The First National Glassware, in Jakarta, Indonesia, that he heads, and a 14-outlet supermarket chain, Super Value Stores, in PNG.
The supermarket managing director, who is based in PNG, flies to Singapore every month. He is married with four children.
Mr Wahju's childhood was reportedly tough.
Previous reports from CHC's newsletter Harvest Times said he had to borrow $500 from his father's business contact every month just to stay in school.
In 1978, when Mr Wahju was 18 years old, his girlfriend's brother (now his brother-in-law) offered him a job in PNG.
In 1986, at age 26, Mr Wahju opened the first Super Value Store retail outlet in Mount Hagen, PNG's third biggest city.
Today, the supermarket chain has more than 1,100 people on its payroll and is the main wholesaler for brands like Puma and Indofood.
Two of Mr Wahju's daughters help run the business.
"People find it hard to believe that we are one of the biggest companies in Papua New Guinea because half the time, I'm not even there," Mr Wahju had told Harvest Times in 2005.
"Yet everything still runs well. I credit this to God's grace and the excellent stewardship of my staff."
Mr Wahju's wife, whom he acknowledged for sharing his vision, is based in Melbourne, Australia. "She handles all the properties," he said.
Kong had previously said of his friend, who joined the church in 1993: "Wahju started seeing himself not just as an employer but a 'pastor' to his workers.
Shares Kong's sermons
"He uses my sermons and shares biblical principles four times a week in his company."
While Kong has a high profile both inside and outside church circles, Mr Wahju is less known.
Of the five City Harvest churchgoers TNP spoke with, only one had heard about him.
A delivery assistant who wanted to be known only as Vince, 33, said Mr Wahju appeared to be Kong's close friend.
"He usually goes up on stage and Pastor Kong will interview him," he said.
According to him, the interviews tend to involve a suited Mr Wahju talking about how his business had been blessed because of the church.
Vince added: "To me, he was quite ordinary, except for the fact that he did a lot of business. "I don't know what kind of business or how big, but I'm guessing it's a lot."
According to Harvest Times in 2007, Mr Wahju had over the years donated almost $6 million to the church.
He had made close to $30 million by then.
When asked about his Indonesian glass factory being mentioned in Kong's case, Mr Wahju sounded angry.
"I don't have to answer your questions," he replied.
hopeful, u know this Pak Wahju?
......
no i dont know. But i can say with 100% uncertainty (the uncertainty is to protect my own backside), that he is typical indonesian rich meaning, tax evader, corruption, etc.
it doesnt matter whether you are faithful christian or faithful in other religions, if you dont give kickbacks, briberies, underreport your taxes, you can't make it big in indonesia.
so i am not sure wether the big g blessed this corruption and theft from the state coffer (tax underreporting) since the guy say his business have been blessed.
as for myself, I am 100% uncertain that I am typical indonesian middle class, the sins committed like indonesian rich, except scale of course not so big.
to cover my backside some more:
this is not admission of my guilt, just tcss.
my friend passed me this info, just to share.
oceanfront condo unit blk 295 #xx-xx is purchased in july 2007, $9,330mil
(since this is penthouse, you can find unit number yourself)
kh and the indo guy joint owner.
almost at the peak.
http://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-and-analysis/residential?p=the-oceanfront-sentosa-cove
since i know unit number etc, i was tempted to use INLIS to check whether they take mortgage, as caveat will be lodged by bank. but it cost me $$, so i didnt get it.
Dear hopeful,
Could you sponsor me a Mt Sinai property?
Dear hopeful,
Could you sponsor me a Mt Sinai property?
dear YT, i dont even have spare $$ to check caveat, so i cannot sponsor you a MT sinai property.
however i can offer you my invaluable and priceless advice, if you want to hear it.
dear YT, i dont even have spare $$ to check caveat, so i cannot sponsor you a MT sinai property.
however i can offer you my invaluable and priceless advice, if you want to take it.
Dear hopeful,
Please advise me.
Dear hopeful,
Could you sponsor me a Mt Sinai property?
You begging for money online? :doh:
Dear hopeful,
Could you sponsor me a Mt Sinai property?
Your part time weekday job after office gives u $1000 a month. But ur still not working over the weekends......that will give u another $2000
On top of that, u have another 5 adults at home, 4 not working, u can always ask them to work as cleaners, then will give u another $4000 to $5000 a month.
So all in all, u will have another $6000 income a month
my friend passed me this info, just to share.
oceanfront condo unit blk 295 #xx-xx is purchased in july 2007, $9,330mil
(since this is penthouse, you can find unit number yourself)
kh and the indo guy joint owner.
almost at the peak.
http://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-and-analysis/residential?p=the-oceanfront-sentosa-cove
since i know unit number etc, i was tempted to use INLIS to check whether they take mortgage, as caveat will be lodged by bank. but it cost me $$, so i didnt get it.
u pm me the unit, i will check
u pm me the unit, i will check
already pm you.
to ensure you dont waste money and scold me, first verify with your friends whether he stayed in the oceanfront unit number i gave you. and also the other condos unit numbers too.
Allthepies
25-07-12, 19:56
Dear hopeful,
Please advise me.
Follow the ONE, he is very successful guy from HDB to multiple properties owner, people willingly feed him, salute to him :cheers1:
I kapoh here, have u found out whether they take mortgage, as caveat will be lodged by bank? or fully paid off
u pm me the unit, i will check
I kapoh here, have u found out whether they take mortgage, as caveat will be lodged by bank? or fully paid off
Not yet
mother in hospital
v busy and tired
Not yet
mother in hospital
v busy and tired
take care bro
Not yet
mother in hospital
v busy and tired
Sori 2 hear that, take care
Just like you donate $$ to the temple.. and in the end of the day..
You take bus whenever you go.. and the monks take taxi whenever they go.. :D
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D...like
take care bro
not bro its sis last time i also say bro someone told me its sis...:D
Not yet
mother in hospital
v busy and tired
wish your mum a speedy recovery..:)
got another post he wrote my wifey. something on handbags or shopping...
Thanks everyone for the best wishes
I did not know, for community hospitals, it is not u want to go, they will accept u....
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