View Full Version : Which loan to take?
Which would be the best package for completed property.
Not looking to sell anytime soon.
1) 3M SIBOR+.6 first 2 years.
3rd year SIBOR+1.
onwards SIBOR+1.5.
2 year lock in.
2) 3M SIBOR +.75 throughtout loan tenor?
2 year lock in.
3) first 3 year 1M SIBOR+ .75
onwards 1M SIBOR +1.25
No lock in, but effectively 3 years cause of clawback.
Advise from gurus here.
Am inclined at 1 cause of low 2 year cost, then can look to refinance.
Which would be the best package for completed property.
Not looking to sell anytime soon.
1) 3M SIBOR+.6 first 2 years.
3rd year SIBOR+1.
onwards SIBOR+1.5.
2 year lock in.
2) 3M SIBOR +.75 throughtout loan tenor?
2 year lock in.
3) first 3 year 1M SIBOR+ .75
onwards 1M SIBOR +1.25
No lock in, but effectively 3 years cause of clawback.
Advise from gurus here.
Am inclined at 1 cause of low 2 year cost, then can look to refinance.
Rockinsg - pls also find out on the legal fee subsidies as well.. some banks subsidize legal fees fully, some partially, while some engage legal firms which may charge you additional fees =)
Rockinsg - pls also find out on the legal fee subsidies as well.. some banks subsidize legal fees fully, some partially, while some engage legal firms which may charge you additional fees =)
Legal cost is not an issue..all will be able to cover in full :cheers3:
Legal cost is not an issue..all will be able to cover in full :cheers3:
Oh thats great, then i will vote for choice 1... 0.6 spread is good
Which would be the best package for completed property.
Not looking to sell anytime soon.
1) 3M SIBOR+.6 first 2 years.
3rd year SIBOR+1.
onwards SIBOR+1.5.
2 year lock in.
2) 3M SIBOR +.75 throughtout loan tenor?
2 year lock in.
3) first 3 year 1M SIBOR+ .75
onwards 1M SIBOR +1.25
No lock in, but effectively 3 years cause of clawback.
Advise from gurus here.
Am inclined at 1 cause of low 2 year cost, then can look to refinance.
legal clawback is 3 years. so consider 3 years for option 1. refin depends on the spread avail at that time.
aLSO depends on loan amount, loan term etc. If these data given, i can do a caculation of payment/penalty after 2 yrs and before 3 yrs
Which would be the best package for completed property.
Not looking to sell anytime soon.
1) 3M SIBOR+.6 first 2 years.
3rd year SIBOR+1.
onwards SIBOR+1.5.
2 year lock in.
2) 3M SIBOR +.75 throughtout loan tenor?
2 year lock in.
3) first 3 year 1M SIBOR+ .75
onwards 1M SIBOR +1.25
No lock in, but effectively 3 years cause of clawback.
Advise from gurus here.
Am inclined at 1 cause of low 2 year cost, then can look to refinance.
aLSO depends on loan amount, loan term etc. If these data given, i can do a caculation of payment/penalty after 2 yrs and before 3 yrs
Loan amount is around 600K.
rattydrama
24-05-12, 08:58
I will take No 3, 1month sibor and negotiate for perpetual .75 thruout.
I will take No 3, 1month sibor and negotiate for perpetual .75 thruout.
Already negotiated rates. Now in take it or leave it state.hehe
I have noticed spread has gone up a lot. Was easy to get sibor+.3 earlier not anymore.
So question would be to go for refinancing later when spread might rise even more.
Our lock in .75 throughout the tenor.
Already negotiated rates. Now in take it or leave it state.hehe
I have noticed spread has gone up a lot. Was easy to get sibor+.3 earlier not anymore.
So question would be to go for refinancing later when spread might rise even more.
Our lock in .75 throughout the tenor.
you just answered your own question.
why opt for 1 then? if you choose 1, you think spread would be more or lower?
Already negotiated rates. Now in take it or leave it state.hehe
I have noticed spread has gone up a lot. Was easy to get sibor+.3 earlier not anymore.
So question would be to go for refinancing later when spread might rise even more.
Our lock in .75 throughout the tenor.
Hi, is your no. 1 loan offer from BOC?
Hi, is your no. 1 loan offer from BOC?
SBI. State bank of India.
rattydrama
24-05-12, 10:42
Already negotiated rates. Now in take it or leave it state.hehe
I have noticed spread has gone up a lot. Was easy to get sibor+.3 earlier not anymore.
So question would be to go for refinancing later when spread might rise even more.
Our lock in .75 throughout the tenor.
.3 not in today's market. bank hardly have any meat. The market says in the next 2 years the rate expect to be same due to flood of liquidity so my guess is sibor gonna be the same but no one can be very sure. Well now i would say its all tme low.
you can ask if you are allowed to covert to fix rate if you decide to do so later. Without lock in gives you the flexibility.
you just answered your own question.
why opt for 1 then? if you choose 1, you think spread would be more or lower?
Will depend on liquidity at that time. Can rise our fall depending how the financial world is after 2 years.
Already negotiated rates. Now in take it or leave it state.hehe
I have noticed spread has gone up a lot. Was easy to get sibor+.3 earlier not anymore.
So question would be to go for refinancing later when spread might rise even more.
Our lock in .75 throughout the tenor.
Some would also advise that we should capitalize on whatever lowest rates we could enjoy now, and refinance later. What will happen in the future is anybody's guesses ... Yeah the spread may rise even more in the future, so does SIBOR. So when SIBOR becomes too high, there might be chances to explore other kinds of non-SIBOR fixed rates.
As loan rates are pretty low already, wouldn't it be better to lock in these low rates with option 2?
When you are able to refinance 2-3 years later, wouldn't the rates be more likely higher than lower?
Will depend on liquidity at that time. Can rise our fall depending how the financial world is after 2 years.
but you are making the decision NOW based on your expectations of the future.
why dont you ask your banker friends, last time, SIBOR, SOR is about 2-3%, are the spreads high also? or still SIBOR, SOR + 0.75%?
then you know which option to take.
Condo Kaiser
24-05-12, 11:32
Which would be the best package for completed property.
Not looking to sell anytime soon.
1) 3M SIBOR+.6 first 2 years.
3rd year SIBOR+1.
onwards SIBOR+1.5.
2 year lock in.
2) 3M SIBOR +.75 throughtout loan tenor?
2 year lock in.
3) first 3 year 1M SIBOR+ .75
onwards 1M SIBOR +1.25
No lock in, but effectively 3 years cause of clawback.
Advise from gurus here.
Am inclined at 1 cause of low 2 year cost, then can look to refinance.
I would suggest you choose option 2.
compared to option 1, all you are losing is 0.15% for the first year but you gain 0.25% for the second year and 0.75% for every future year....
As long as you are not looking to refinance within 1 year, option 2 is more worth it.... what is there to think?
rattydrama
24-05-12, 11:43
lock in and without lock in plays a different. the penalty is 0.75% of the outstanding loan amount.
I use the below sibor rate, using propertyguru calculate to mortgage
Rate Name Rate
1M SIBOR 0.32423
3M SIBOR 0.38656
3M SOR 0.4133
Last updated on 23 May
30 years 500k outstanding loan amount
opt1
3m 0.386560.60.98656
monthly: $1,605.11
option 2
1m0.324230.751.07423
monthly $1,625.30
rattydrama
24-05-12, 12:52
option 2 is referring to option 3.
The savings for 2 years is around SGD500. But should you sell within 2 years, the penality for lock-in at 0.75% is $3.3k.
option 2 is referring to option 3.
The savings for 2 years is around SGD500. But should you sell within 2 years, the penality for lock-in at 0.75% is $3.3k.
Not looking to sell for next 5 6 years.
Only issue is what will be the spread after next free years. And if sibor rises too much, would be better to switch to fixed.
rattydrama
24-05-12, 14:00
Not looking to sell for next 5 6 years.
Only issue is what will be the spread after next free years. And if sibor rises too much, would be better to switch to fixed.
we nvr know when uncertanities strike when u need to sell & human beings are flicker minded.
definitely is better to switch to fixed if sibor keeps going up so your contract must be flixible enough for you to nego. Banks are clever, if they know you have a lock in of 2 yr, they will nvr give u a good rate or simply say non-nego...
changing banks will suffer claw back chao chao $3K...so need to look at big pic.
Not looking to sell for next 5 6 years.
Only issue is what will be the spread after next free years. And if sibor rises too much, would be better to switch to fixed.
But wouldn't the fixed rates rise in tandem with SIBOR?
rattydrama
24-05-12, 14:32
if you foresee rate is going to rise 3-4% in 6 months, you could fix the rate now at 2% (eg) for 3 years and bank will undertake the risk.
up/down sibor will not impact you for that 3 yr.
if you foresee rate is going to rise 3-4% in 6 months, you could fix the rate now at 2% (eg) for 3 years and bank will undertake the risk.
up/down sibor will not impact you for that 3 yr.
In uncle Ben we trust :D
Don't see it rising much till 2014.
But I would expect sibor >1 by mid 2015.
Loan amount is around 600K.
Refinance after 2 yrs, you Paid:
Package 1: 54269(P@42677 I@11592)+Subsidy
Package 2&3: 55252(P@41913 I@13339) +Subsidy
There is $1K saved by package 1.
Refinance after 3 yrs, you Paid:
Package 1: 82625(P@63362 I@19262)
Package 2&3: Paid 82879(P@63233 I@19645)
There are not much difference (only in hundreds) in the interest paid among the 3 packages.
Compare 2, and 3, I would use Package 3, reason being:
1) As 3M Sibor is generally slightly higher than 1M Sibor, Package 3 should save a little bit over Package
2) No lock in
3) Refinance notice more flexible (3M Sibor allow you to notice only at 4 months out of 1 yrs, without requiring interest penalty on you)
4) Highly possibly that after 3 yrs later, options similar (if not better) to the 3 Sibor packages are available in the market
Will upload my calculation in next posts.
Month Payment Interest Principle Loan Amount
1 2261.23 500.00 1761.23 598238.77
**Paid 2261(P@1761 I@500) Penalty 11473 (Rede 8973 Subs2500)
2 2261.23 498.53 1762.70 596476.07
3 2261.23 497.06 1764.17 594711.90
4 2261.23 495.59 1765.64 592946.26
5 2261.23 494.12 1767.11 591179.15
6 2261.23 492.64 1768.59 589410.56
7 2261.23 491.17 1770.06 587640.50
8 2261.23 489.70 1771.53 585868.97
9 2261.23 488.22 1773.01 584095.96
10 2261.23 486.74 1774.49 582321.47
11 2261.23 485.26 1775.97 580545.50
12 2261.23 483.78 1777.45 578768.05
13 2261.23 482.30 1778.93 576989.12
**Paid 29395(P@23010 I@6385) Penalty 11154 (Rede 8654 Subs2500)
14 2261.23 480.82 1780.41 575208.71
15 2261.23 479.34 1781.89 573426.82
16 2261.23 477.85 1783.38 571643.44
17 2261.23 476.36 1784.87 569858.57
18 2261.23 474.88 1786.35 568072.22
19 2261.23 473.39 1787.84 566284.38
20 2261.23 471.90 1789.33 564495.05
21 2261.23 470.41 1790.82 562704.23
22 2261.23 468.92 1792.31 560911.92
23 2261.23 467.42 1793.81 559118.11
24 2261.23 465.93 1795.30 557322.81
**Paid 54269(P@42677 I@11592) Penalty 10859 (Rede 8359 Subs2500)
25 2362.97 650.20 1712.77 555610.04
**Paid 56632(P@44389 I@12242) Penalty 2500 (Rede 0 Subs2500)
26 2362.97 648.21 1714.76 553895.28
27 2362.97 646.21 1716.76 552178.52
28 2362.97 644.20 1718.77 550459.75
29 2362.97 642.20 1720.77 548738.98
30 2362.97 640.19 1722.78 547016.20
31 2362.97 638.18 1724.79 545291.41
32 2362.97 636.17 1726.80 543564.61
33 2362.97 634.15 1728.82 541835.79
34 2362.97 632.14 1730.83 540104.96
35 2362.97 630.12 1732.85 538372.11
36 2362.97 628.10 1734.87 536637.24
**Paid 82625(P@63362 I@19262) Penalty 2500 (Rede 0 Subs2500)
Month Payment Interest Principle Loan Amount
1 2302.20 575.00 1727.20 598272.80
**Paid 2302(P@1727 I@575) Penalty 11474 (Rede 8974 Subs2500)
2 2302.20 573.34 1728.86 596543.94
3 2302.20 571.68 1730.52 594813.42
4 2302.20 570.02 1732.18 593081.24
5 2302.20 568.36 1733.84 591347.40
6 2302.20 566.70 1735.50 589611.90
7 2302.20 565.04 1737.16 587874.74
8 2302.20 563.37 1738.83 586135.91
9 2302.20 561.71 1740.49 584395.42
10 2302.20 560.04 1742.16 582653.26
11 2302.20 558.37 1743.83 580909.43
12 2302.20 556.70 1745.50 579163.93
13 2302.20 555.03 1747.17 577416.76
**Paid 29928(P@22583 I@7345) Penalty 11161 (Rede 8661 Subs2500)
14 2302.20 553.35 1748.85 575667.91
15 2302.20 551.68 1750.52 573917.39
16 2302.20 550.00 1752.20 572165.19
17 2302.20 548.32 1753.88 570411.31
18 2302.20 546.64 1755.56 568655.75
19 2302.20 544.96 1757.24 566898.51
20 2302.20 543.27 1758.93 565139.58
21 2302.20 541.59 1760.61 563378.97
22 2302.20 539.90 1762.30 561616.67
23 2302.20 538.21 1763.99 559852.68
24 2302.20 536.52 1765.68 558087.00
**Paid 55252(P@41913 I@13339) Penalty 10871 (Rede 8371 Subs2500)
25 2302.20 534.83 1767.37 556319.63
**Paid 57555(P@43680 I@13874) Penalty 2500 (Rede 0 Subs2500)
26 2302.20 533.13 1769.07 554550.56
27 2302.20 531.44 1770.76 552779.80
28 2302.20 529.74 1772.46 551007.34
29 2302.20 528.04 1774.16 549233.18
30 2302.20 526.34 1775.86 547457.32
31 2302.20 524.64 1777.56 545679.76
32 2302.20 522.94 1779.26 543900.50
33 2302.20 521.23 1780.97 542119.53
34 2302.20 519.53 1782.67 540336.86
35 2302.20 517.82 1784.38 538552.48
36 2302.20 516.11 1786.09 536766.39
**Paid 82879(P@63233 I@19645) Penalty 2500 (Rede 0 Subs2500)
Month Payment Interest Principle Loan Amount
1 2302.20 575.00 1727.20 598272.80
**Paid 2302(P@1727 I@575) Penalty 2500 (Rede 0 Subs2500)
2 2302.20 573.34 1728.86 596543.94
3 2302.20 571.68 1730.52 594813.42
4 2302.20 570.02 1732.18 593081.24
5 2302.20 568.36 1733.84 591347.40
6 2302.20 566.70 1735.50 589611.90
7 2302.20 565.04 1737.16 587874.74
8 2302.20 563.37 1738.83 586135.91
9 2302.20 561.71 1740.49 584395.42
10 2302.20 560.04 1742.16 582653.26
11 2302.20 558.37 1743.83 580909.43
12 2302.20 556.70 1745.50 579163.93
13 2302.20 555.03 1747.17 577416.76
**Paid 29928(P@22583 I@7345) Penalty 2500 (Rede 0 Subs2500)
14 2302.20 553.35 1748.85 575667.91
15 2302.20 551.68 1750.52 573917.39
16 2302.20 550.00 1752.20 572165.19
17 2302.20 548.32 1753.88 570411.31
18 2302.20 546.64 1755.56 568655.75
19 2302.20 544.96 1757.24 566898.51
20 2302.20 543.27 1758.93 565139.58
21 2302.20 541.59 1760.61 563378.97
22 2302.20 539.90 1762.30 561616.67
23 2302.20 538.21 1763.99 559852.68
24 2302.20 536.52 1765.68 558087.00
25 2302.20 534.83 1767.37 556319.63
**Paid 57555(P@43680 I@13874) Penalty 2500 (Rede 0 Subs2500)
26 2302.20 533.13 1769.07 554550.56
27 2302.20 531.44 1770.76 552779.80
28 2302.20 529.74 1772.46 551007.34
29 2302.20 528.04 1774.16 549233.18
30 2302.20 526.34 1775.86 547457.32
31 2302.20 524.64 1777.56 545679.76
32 2302.20 522.94 1779.26 543900.50
33 2302.20 521.23 1780.97 542119.53
34 2302.20 519.53 1782.67 540336.86
35 2302.20 517.82 1784.38 538552.48
36 2302.20 516.11 1786.09 536766.39
**Paid 82879(P@63233 I@19645) Penalty 2500 (Rede 0 Subs2500)
Did anyone mentioned DBS sibor protection at 1.49?
Did anyone mentioned DBS sibor protection at 1.49?
I never believe in things I can't understand. Either go floating or go fixed.
Why be struck in between and let bank earn money for ur indecisiveness? :banghead:
Citybank 1.35 if wanna go for fixed.
I will choose #2. Because I predict the spread the will increase 3 years from now when higher bank reserve ratio requirement increases. Also, if for some reason you are unable to re-finance after 2/3 years (e.g. you are working overseas, quit your job, retired), at least you don't pay exorbitant rates.
Do check in detail the cancellation charges. Some banks use tricky language.
For the legal subsidy, ask the bank whether the firm that you are using or the one that the banker recommends is on the bank's list of approved firms. Get it in writing. Otherwise if there are any disputes in the future, the bank will hire their own law firm and charge the cost to you (I believe this clause will be in the contract).
rattydrama
24-05-12, 23:52
unless you stay with the same bank, the legal subsidy claw back is usually 3 years, so may need to consider this in the calculation.
Refinance after 2 yrs, you Paid:
Package 1: 54269(P@42677 I@11592)+Subsidy
Package 2&3: 55252(P@41913 I@13339) +Subsidy
There is $1K saved by package 1.
Refinance after 3 yrs, you Paid:
Package 1: 82625(P@63362 I@19262)
Package 2&3: Paid 82879(P@63233 I@19645)
There are not much difference (only in hundreds) in the interest paid among the 3 packages.
Compare 2, and 3, I would use Package 3, reason being:
1) As 3M Sibor is generally slightly higher than 1M Sibor, Package 3 should save a little bit over Package
2) No lock in
3) Refinance notice more flexible (3M Sibor allow you to notice only at 4 months out of 1 yrs, without requiring interest penalty on you)
4) Highly possibly that after 3 yrs later, options similar (if not better) to the 3 Sibor packages are available in the market
Will upload my calculation in next posts.
rattydrama
24-05-12, 23:58
I will choose #2. Because I predict the spread the will increase 3 years from now when higher bank reserve ratio requirement increases. Also, if for some reason you are unable to re-finance after 2/3 years (e.g. you are working overseas, quit your job, retired), at least you don't pay exorbitant rates.
Do check in detail the cancellation charges. Some banks use tricky language.
For the legal subsidy, ask the bank whether the firm that you are using or the one that the banker recommends is on the bank's list of approved firms. Get it in writing. Otherwise if there are any disputes in the future, the bank will hire their own law firm and charge the cost to you (I believe this clause will be in the contract).
If refinance with the same bank, may not require to show proof. Yes you are also right to say that spread of .75 should go up...so "throughout" is a key thing.
May I predict that with the current uncertainities, can consider to wait and see for few months.
I think companies in SG (banks, telcos, spas, etc) usually do not give good rates to existing customers. We have to switch to another company to get a good rate.:mad:
I never believe in things I can't understand. Either go floating or go fixed.
Why be struck in between and let bank earn money for ur indecisiveness? :banghead:
Citybank 1.35 if wanna go for fixed.
Well this is effective 3m sibor plus 0.88 and total rate will cap at 1.49 shd the sibor rare went up. Right now it would be 0.38 plus 0.88 =1.26
#2 is the best for long term stay bec chances are you may not be able to find a low spread of +0.75 throughout thereafter!
The legal subsidy was considered in the caculation.
unless you stay with the same bank, the legal subsidy claw back is usually 3 years, so may need to consider this in the calculation.
A banker was telling me, even if you take fixed rate package, the banks can still increase the rate if interest rates go through the roof.
Has anybody heard about this?
TheOnlyGayInTheVillage
27-05-12, 18:01
A banker was telling me, even if you take fixed rate package, the banks can still increase the rate if interest rates go through the roof.
Has anybody heard about this?
This new to me... so there ISNT any GUARANTEED fixed rate at all!
A banker was telling me, even if you take fixed rate package, the banks can still increase the rate if interest rates go through the roof.
Has anybody heard about this?
Ya. That's what a banker told me.
Ya. That's what a banker told me.
Banks always have clause for 'market disruption'. Can always use it at their fancy.
There is lot abt banks people don't know.
People think if they pay their mortgage bank wont cause any issue.
Lot of people dont even know that bank can always ask for loan top up is the prices falls below 'their' required valuation. :hell-hath-no-fury:
Yep, so thread with care when choosing your mortgage.
The first time I ever heard of, after living for so many years :banghead:
You can think for yourself whether it is real or not? :beats-me-man:
A banker was telling me, even if you take fixed rate package, the banks can still increase the rate if interest rates go through the roof.
Has anybody heard about this?
The first time I ever heard of, after living for so many years :banghead:
You can think for yourself whether it is real or not? :beats-me-man:
well, do you remember the time when SOR was negative?
received letter from bank regarding that matter, and it say something about a floor in interest rates payable.
i look at the mortgage agreement thoroughly, it never say anything about a floor in interest rates payable, only SOR + spread.
accept it lor, big fish eat small fish.
well, do you remember the time when SOR was negative?
received letter from bank regarding that matter, and it say something about a floor in interest rates payable.
i look at the mortgage agreement thoroughly, it never say anything about a floor in interest rates payable, only SOR + spread.
accept it lor, big fish eat small fish.
let me guess. CIMB?
Because SOR keep changing, and it is common sense that SOR can't possibly be negative, just like when you do math quadratic equation of a physical problem and you throw away negative results right? Same here.
However, fixed rate loan means "fixed rate", there is no variable component to negotiate on, unless Singapore declare that govt will not honour the laws anymore. So, all those talk about banks can unilaterally change the interest rate of a "fixed rate" loan is well, :doh:
Can understand why some people want to spread such rumours and fears though. :tsk-tsk:
well, do you remember the time when SOR was negative?
received letter from bank regarding that matter, and it say something about a floor in interest rates payable.
i look at the mortgage agreement thoroughly, it never say anything about a floor in interest rates payable, only SOR + spread.
accept it lor, big fish eat small fish.
Best if someone who has taken a fixed rate loan verify if there is indeed such a clause in the agreement.
felicia_sg
08-06-12, 16:28
What clause? So far my understanding is that fixed rate means really fixed dead. The big words got nothing that says they can change the fixed rate, small words can challenge them in court. :p
Best if someone who has taken a fixed rate loan verify if there is indeed such a clause in the agreement.
Is there really a 'market disruption' clause in the fixed rate mortgage agreement? :confused:
ok decision time,
Bank A and Bank B both offer the same SIBOR spread for 3 years.
Bank A has no lock in period, but you need to take up mortgage protector for 1 year which cost around $400.
Bank B, has 2 years lock in but no other condition such as mortgage protector.
Which one should i choose?
As a consumer, bank B is better option unless you think there will be a sudden increase in sibor within the next 2 years.
ok decision time,
Bank A and Bank B both offer the same SIBOR spread for 3 years.
Bank A has no lock in period, but you need to take up mortgage protector for 1 year which cost around $400.
Bank B, has 2 years lock in but no other condition such as mortgage protector.
Which one should i choose?
As a consumer, bank B is better option unless you think there will be a sudden increase in sibor within the next 2 years.
thats something that I have been think because I dont want to be caught in a situation whereby I being penny smart and pound foolish.
I am not in the position to predict how SIBOR will move but I reckon it will be low for awhile. So its now between $400 or 2 years lock in.
take the package with mortgage protector.
Got a friend who refinance his mortgage with the same bank at spread of 1% + 3 mth sibor. Not very attractive.
wont u take up mortgage insurance in any case? whether 1 or 2 yr lock in matters little if u not selling within 2 years.. and legal clawback is 3years.. and why 3m sibor? 1m sibor la
Got a friend who refinance his mortgage with the same bank at spread of 1% + 3 mth sibor. Not very attractive.
the spread is 0.75% +
wont u take up mortgage insurance in any case? whether 1 or 2 yr lock in matters little if u not selling within 2 years.. and legal clawback is 3years.. and why 3m sibor? 1m sibor la
our properties are all self-financing themselves so there is no need for any mortgage insurance. Plus we are only taking <60% LTV for all our properties. In worst case we will just sell one property to run down the mortgage for the other property.
you are right, there is a option for 1m or 3m. And we will go for 1m.
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