View Full Version : What Choice will you make?
mightyreds185
21-05-12, 14:00
Hi all,
I am writing to ask for the general opinion here in the forum.
The gist of it: Which Job will you choose?
1) Local listed company: Pay package S$120k (not including bonus) per annum, pay rises will be minimum for the next 2 years.
2) Overseas company: Pay package S$150k (not including bonus) per annum, with a high possibility of significant salary increase (>50%) within 1-2 years. The catch here is that time spent overseas will be more than 90% for the foreseeable future. One month can only be back for 2-3 days for about 1-2 years.
Background and Other points for consideration:
1) Age 34. Married with a young kid less than 2 years old and another baby on the way.
2) 2 properties (1 paid up and 1 property still with a loan of >500k)
3) Wife has given her blessing to work overseas
4) Wife has a stable job which is also not bad paying (>S$100k per annum)
I have given the above so that any views can take into account all salient factors (ie family make up, age, loans, earning power etc).
I appreciate all sincere viewpoints and advices.
PS: I am very attached to my little one.
Hi all,
I am writing to ask for the general opinion here in the forum.
The gist of it: Which Job will you choose?
1) Local listed company: Pay package S$120k (not including bonus) per annum, pay rises will be minimum for the next 2 years.
2) Overseas company: Pay package S$150k (not including bonus) per annum, with a high possibility of significant salary increase (>50%) within 1-2 years. The catch here is that time spent overseas will be more than 90% for the foreseeable future. One month can only be back for 2-3 days for about 1-2 years.
Background and Other points for consideration:
1) Age 34. Married with a young kid less than 2 years old and another baby on the way.
2) 2 properties (1 paid up and 1 property still with a loan of >500k)
3) Wife has given her blessing to work overseas
4) Wife has a stable job which is also not bad paying (>S$100k per annum)
I have given the above so that any views can take into account all salient factors (ie family make up, age, loans, earning power etc).
I appreciate all sincere viewpoints and advices.
PS: I am very attached to my little one.
Interesting example.
phantom_opera
21-05-12, 14:12
Have you heard of babies requires touch of father to grow in a healthy manner? Absence of father normally means the boys are normally timid and has no self-confidence
There are certain things that money won't buy
Enough said
TS. You already have the answer. You just need others to tell it to your face. I wont do you that benefit. Really waste our time...
I leave you with this thought.
Money earned cant buy back the lost years of your kids childhood.
buttercarp
21-05-12, 14:31
TS, I will go abroad only if the whole family goes along.
Otherwise it is a definite NO.
Regulators
21-05-12, 14:37
Family comes first of course. Your two kids are still so young and your wife needs your moral support in every way. I would go for the local option, that extra bit of cash you can find creative ways to make it elsewhere.
mightyreds185
21-05-12, 14:37
To Buttercarp,
Unfortunately, no. The family will not be going along. But i will shift back to Singapore in 1-2 years time.
To Carbuncle and Phantom Opera,
Appreciate your responses. You guys seems to think that family life is much more important than securing a better future for the whole family by taking a short term sacrifice.
The fact that i am asking means i am still agonising over the decision.
Actually, i am leaving in an hours time to sign that overseas contract.
Having thought through my decision for 2 weeks, i am still none the wiser.
Nonetheless, i do appreciate your frank responses.
I will go for the money since I am already broke.
I think you want the above reply to back you up.
mightyreds185
21-05-12, 14:45
Family comes first of course. Your two kids are still so young and your wife needs your moral support in every way. I would go for the local option, that extra bit of cash you can find creative ways to make it elsewhere.
To Regulators,
I understand that. But my wife actually wants me to take the overseas option as the value-add is much more significant than the local option.
Also, we are lucky in the sense of having a fantastic support network in the form of both sets of our parents.
if you can control your cock, then by all means go overseas to work.
if cannot, then economy damage would be more than the differential earned. an example, US oil workers who worked in asia, they blow their salary on hookers, girlfriends etc.
with all high speed internet + video conferencing, your kids can respond to 2 stimuli, voice and sight, albeit no touch, smell and taste of you.
I suggests once overseas, you send your unwashed clothes back to your family, for your kids to smell when they are asleep. It really works.
Since your immediate relatives support you,seize the opportunity la. Who knows will come knocking again?
This IMO is a no-brainer question.
PS. you are attached to your little one, But you should be concerned about the little one's future.
Money is the root of all suffering indeed. I fail to see how horrid a quality of life can be had with combined household income 250k pa. TS is not striving to form a soccer team.
Wife says Yeah. But are kids old enough to say NAY? They are the ones to suffer most. Strong parents network...hahaha... Poor souls, brought you guys up slogging now have to slog some more for your kids. If you have that much overseas earning maybe can employ dedicated nanny one each for your kids. Spare your old parents please. Oh dont forget send them on cruise holidays or japan onsen vacations with all that extra money you have....
To Regulators,
I understand that. But my wife actually wants me to take the overseas option as the value-add is much more significant than the local option.
Also, we are lucky in the sense of having a fantastic support network in the form of both sets of our parents.
In terms of demographics am in quite a similar situation as yourself.
I will take the overseas job if wife gives blessings. Unfortunatley no one wants to send me overseas for 2 years :(
mightyreds185
21-05-12, 14:53
Money is the root of all suffering indeed. I fail to see how horrid a quality of life can be had with combined household income 250k pa. TS is not stiving to form a soccer team.
To Carbuncle,
Understood what you are trying to tell me. Money has always been the root of all evil. Definitely the choice is mine to make.
I guess its just to see whether the general opinion is really to choose family over a chance to be even more comfortable in life. (Before you tell me that there will be no end about chasing after money, i am keenly aware of that).
rattydrama
21-05-12, 14:54
Just be careful that you will still get a good paying job when return. Make sure all promises are in the contract. I do encounter some colleagues after they finished their overseas assignment found that due to restructing, management has changed and they are forced to up root elsewhere. Particuly so when economy is bad.
Also overseas ladies are aggressive........ and you wont know what will happen to your wife...
To Carbuncle,
Understood what you are trying to tell me. Money has always been the root of all evil. Definitely the choice is mine to make.
I guess its just to see whether the general opinion is really to choose family over a chance to be even more comfortable in life. (Before you tell me that there will be no end about chasing after money, i am keenly aware of that).
I will always choose short term sacrifices in exchange for long term gain.
Money no enough.
The answer is trade-offs! The new buzz word I learn from out MiW.
The Career-minded cannot stand-still...must always be willing to carry flag and do extra. Else someone else will come and steal your seat. So if he wants to earn >250k pa, he must go with MNC.
Stand-still with local company, will allow for family time but the risk of 'relative stagnation' in time is higher.
So what is enough for you? And how ambitious/scared are you?
Trade-offs...you and family must know and then cast your vote!
To Carbuncle,
Understood what you are trying to tell me. Money has always been the root of all evil. Definitely the choice is mine to make.
I guess its just to see whether the general opinion is really to choose family over a chance to be even more comfortable in life. (Before you tell me that there will be no end about chasing after money, i am keenly aware of that).
I guess if its just 2 yrs, the risk is small. Go for it! Be happy with your decision.
To Carbuncle,
Understood what you are trying to tell me. Money has always been the root of all evil. Definitely the choice is mine to make.
I guess its just to see whether the general opinion is really to choose family over a chance to be even more comfortable in life. (Before you tell me that there will be no end about chasing after money, i am keenly aware of that).
right you, you and spouse are talented in getting good jobs + good salary.
are you sure your kids will have the same talents?
are your parents rich? if yes and you are rich, then chances your kids have money making dna will be good.
if your parents not rich, then chances your kids have that money making dna not so good.
so what can you do as parents? make money while you can, not for your sake, but for their sake.
Money no enough.
The answer is trade-offs! The new buzz word I learn from out MiW.
The Career-minded cannot stand-still...must always be willing to carry flag and do extra. Else someone else will come and steal your seat. So if he wants to earn >250k pa, he must go with MNC.
Stand-still with local company, will allow for family time but the risk of 'relative stagnation' in time is higher.
So what is enough for you? And how ambitious/scared are you?
Trade-offs...you and family must know and then cast your vote!
Ya la ya la. Choose whether wanna be struck by lightning or crushed by hammer. Neither is good... Both are evil.
Just be careful that you will still get a good paying job when return. Make sure all promises are in the contract. I do encounter some colleagues after they finished their overseas assignment found that due to restructing, management has changed and they are forced to up root elsewhere. Particuly so when economy is bad.
Also overseas ladies are aggressive........ and you wont know what will happen to your wife...
now iphone and other smart phones have location tracking apps. so to build trust, make sure answer video calls and activate the location apps.
I will always choose short term sacrifices in exchange for long term gain.
Sure. But some short term sacrifice may cause long term damage. It takes far more foresight to catch.
mightyreds185
21-05-12, 15:00
Alright guys,
Been reading the forum for 2 years and it my virgin post.
Its just a last minute thing to see whether anyone has any unique viewpoint.
Thank you for your time and opinions, regardless of whether its for the money or the family.
I was away for a month only when my both children were only 5 and 2.
It was heart breaking to part.
It is not going to be easy for your wife.
Alright guys,
Been reading the forum for 2 years and it my virgin post.
Its just a last minute thing to see whether anyone has any unique viewpoint.
Thank you for your time and opinions, regardless of whether its for the money or the family.
how about money for the family?:)
rattydrama
21-05-12, 15:06
...LIKE... you sum it all. :cheers4:
if you can control your cock, then by all means go overseas to work.
if cannot, then economy damage would be more than the differential earned. an example, US oil workers who worked in asia, they blow their salary on hookers, girlfriends etc.
Alright guys,
Been reading the forum for 2 years and it my virgin post.
Its just a last minute thing to see whether anyone has any unique viewpoint.
Thank you for your time and opinions, regardless of whether its for the money or the family.
Here's my 2 cents...Go for the overseas company. I have been working for foreign companies and local companies. Hands down the former. The work culture and regard for personal/family life is generally better with foreign companies, not to mention the overall package. Besides you are only 34. The experience you gain from overseas posting is going to be invaluable. If your posting is within Asia, even better as you and family can link-up over long weekends, etc.
There is no right or wrong choice but more of important is what you think is important. Yes, money is important but it cannot buy happiness. Even though you have support from parents but they cannot replace you. Father is also an important role for children. Why most children from single parent background are not healthy in psychologically?
Yes, it maybe 2 years but it is also not short especially for people waiting for the time to pass.
Before, I also become a parent, many of my colleague advice me to spend more time with my kid before they grow up. I'm lucky to have the opportunity to spend alot of my time with my kid and she is a very happy child. I have a small shop manage by my wife while I try to take care of my kid if I am not needed in the shop. I can tell you that I am so happy to sacrifice my time for my child than trying to earn more money.
Life is not about money. Like your parents, you can give them a lot of money this is not what they want. They want your companion. I believe your children are too young to tell you. They want your companion and not just money. If money can replace you then you should be worry for your children. When you are old, your children will not be by your side as they would be busy to slave for money. Your children will learn from you that money is more important than anything else including relationship.
I just share my thoughts but you do consider before signing it. Wish you all the Best!
It has to be at least double of $150k to make the sacrifice. In fact, the aluable time with family especially with the new born can never be tagged to a number. It will not return once that stage is past.
Hi all,
I am writing to ask for the general opinion here in the forum.
The gist of it: Which Job will you choose?
1) Local listed company: Pay package S$120k (not including bonus) per annum, pay rises will be minimum for the next 2 years.
2) Overseas company: Pay package S$150k (not including bonus) per annum, with a high possibility of significant salary increase (>50%) within 1-2 years. The catch here is that time spent overseas will be more than 90% for the foreseeable future. One month can only be back for 2-3 days for about 1-2 years.
Background and Other points for consideration:
1) Age 34. Married with a young kid less than 2 years old and another baby on the way.
2) 2 properties (1 paid up and 1 property still with a loan of >500k)
3) Wife has given her blessing to work overseas
4) Wife has a stable job which is also not bad paying (>S$100k per annum)
I have given the above so that any views can take into account all salient factors (ie family make up, age, loans, earning power etc).
I appreciate all sincere viewpoints and advices.
PS: I am very attached to my little one.
Which country u are heading to?. It will give us a better idea what kind of situations u will be expecting.
I will stay... the memories that the child collects starts from 2 years old. These memories will be without the father... Anyway, the difference in salary is only $30k, not $3mil so I'll stay put! :cheers5: Do not be blinded by the notion that you can save $0.50 per pack of drinks by buying an entire carton but you actually don't need so much drinks... you wanted to save but in the end spend more. You wanted to earn more money for family but in the end lost the time for your family. Well, your kid might have preferred your presence more than the extra cash. Furthermore, your next baby's on the way and your wife will definitely need you around too for that emotional support! :rolleyes:
I will stay... the memories that the child collects starts from 2 years old. These memories will be without the father... Anyway, the difference in salary is only $30k, not $3mil so I'll stay put! :cheers5: Do not be blinded by the notion that you can save $0.50 per pack of drinks by buying an entire carton but you actually don't need so much drinks... you wanted to save but in the end spend more. You wanted to earn more money for family but in the end lost the time for your family. Well, your kid might have preferred your presence more than the extra cash. Furthermore, your next baby's on the way and your wife will definitely need you around too for that emotional support! :rolleyes: Also take note of pregnant mother may get post natal blue if emotionally affested. Even $3million is not worthed it.
It has to be at least double of $150k to make the sacrifice. In fact, the aluable time with family especially with the new born can never be tagged to a number. It will not return once that stage is past.
Did you just contradict yourself?
valuable time can never be tagged to a number, but earlier mentioned that it has to be at least of $150k.
hmmm, wonder why migrants from china go to nanyang to look for work, leaving behind their families?
i guess internet didnt exist at that time, and nobody tells them about the importance of family bonding.
Another set of the 'trade-off' question ...but end result is the same ...being burnt or being crushed.
Ya la ya la. Choose whether wanna be struck by lightning or crushed by hammer. Neither is good... Both are evil.
I meant if he wants to go, it got to be at least double of $150k. For me, it is not worthed it at all. Glad that my grandad came over to Singapore. :D
Did you just contradict yourself?
valuable time can never be tagged to a number, but earlier mentioned that it has to be at least of $150k.
hmmm, wonder why migrants from china go to nanyang to look for work, leaving behind their families?
i guess internet didnt exist at that time, and nobody tells them about the importance of family bonding.
Another set of the 'trade-off' question ...but end result is the same ...being burnt or being crushed.
Odysseus face 2 dangers, Scylla (sea monster) and Charybdis (whirlpool).
Odysseus chose to face Scylla, reasoning that only a few men will be lost. He reasoned that if he chose the whirlpool, the entire ship and men could be lost.
Yes, bad choices both, but bad choices are not created equal.
given the choice of being struck by lightning or crushed by hammer, again we can reasoned out which is a worse way to die, or which would make life easier if we managed to survive.
I meant if he wants to go, it got to be at least double of $150k. For me, it is not worthed it at all. Glad that my grandad came over to Singapore. :D
so no amount of money would induce you to take overseas posting, without wife? not even 5x your combined income?
your grandad single? if single, he has to leave his parents? or his parents come along? if parents left behind, who take care of his parents then? questions questions
last time, no need to think too much. just do it.
Also take note of pregnant mother may get post natal blue if emotionally affested. Even $3million is not worthed it.
Post natal blues is not to be scoffed at. Some people can hit taxi drivers and kick a dent in the car when on it. Maybe your first trip home is a welcome slap on the face by your wife.
Nice...i like ...:D
Post natal blues is not to be scoffed at. Some people can hit taxi drivers and kick a dent in the car when on it. Maybe your first trip home is a welcome slap on the face by your wife.
Wife can resign n follow him overseas to be a full time housewife taking good care of the 2 young kids n keeping eye on husband. The family can have quality time together till they return to sg n timing just right for the kids to start schooling locally. Only that wife got to sacrifice her good paying job, but should b worth it.
For a company that tells me that I have a high possibility of >50% salary increase within 1-2 years, I will be highly skeptical. Either put it in writing or not mention at all.
Then the salary premium vanishes...and risk just transfers to husband.
Only can earn from rental of their dwelling and maybe save on sale of car.
And that is he gets perks of housing/car in where he's headed.
As for eye on husband ...that one, very hard to do unless you have a good product to work with in the first place.
Wife can resign n follow him overseas to be a full time housewife taking good care of the 2 young kids n keeping eye on husband. The family can have quality time together till they return to sg n timing just right for the kids to start schooling locally. Only that wife got to sacrifice her good paying job, but should b worth it.
Either wife quits her job n the whole family follows the husband or husband takes up the local job. Min. $200k for this kind of overseas job else not worth!
If u have a boy, the formation years to have a father around will definitely have a very important n positive effect for the child!
There r many families that I have come across where the husbands travel most of the times. Somehow the boys r not so socialable n confident! Nowadays very common!
Well it really depends on what u value in life n yr priorities that will help u make the decision!
My dad accepted an overseas posting when I was in my primary school. For 3 years plus, I was without that fatherly figure and could only visit him during my school vacation. I really enjoyed those vacation although kana scolded by him badly coz of poor school results. My school results plummeted big time during his absence. Only in my PSLE year my mum insisted that he returns to look after my studies so he guai guai returned. My mother asked him, 'what's the point of earning so much money if your son is going to fail his studies'... my mother can't help me with my studies then... its a decision one has to make if he wants to go overseas. :cool:
Agree - smells funny...
Else make you a roving ex-pat...spend 2 years one place, then send you another 2 years somewhere else. Professional ex-pat...with no home base.
Upside is tremendous, but better make it - else no place back in SG coz no suitable job to come back to.
But if you have the 'international' mindset and can make it ...wow, can really become very big...
For a company that tells me that I have a high possibility of >50% salary increase within 1-2 years, I will be highly skeptical. Either put it in writing or not mention at all.
Too late liao la. He prolly already signed liao.... No point tokking anymore.
Late liao also can hear our 'Optopus' story...on one hand, on the other hand...
Too late liao la. He prolly already signed liao.... No point tokking anymore.
Late liao also can hear our 'Optopus' story...on one hand, on the other hand...
So many hands ... KI CHIEW!!!!
My dad accepted an overseas posting when I was in my primary school. For 3 years plus, I was without that fatherly figure and could only visit him during my school vacation. I really enjoyed those vacation although kana scolded by him badly coz of poor school results. My school results plummeted big time during his absence. Only in my PSLE year my mum insisted that he returns to look after my studies so he guai guai returned. My mother asked him, 'what's the point of earning so much money if your son is going to fail his studies'... my mother can't help me with my studies then... its a decision one has to make if he wants to go overseas. :cool:
you were such a bad boy ;).
failing your studies to get parental attention.
Sure. But some short term sacrifice may cause long term damage. It takes far more foresight to catch.
carbuncle, You hit the nail on the head! Thats why must have the forsight to assess what is the long term gain, social, economical, emotional, monetary, mental etc..... but if it is long term PERMANENT gain, then why not.
The pity is most people only look at it from one angle, a monetary pserspective but fail to see the emotional and mental costs involved.
Listen to your heart :cheers4:
1. What is the tax structure oversea?
2. Are you in a booming or sunset industry in Singapore?
What is your plan after 2 year? move back ? Stay oversea?
3. How much tax to pay when move back with your money?
4. How much can you save after factor in the living expenses oversea compare to living together with family here with local pay?
5. Are you prepare to deal with the emotion, missing the family? Wife needing your support, etc?
6. Third party? ...
7. are you willing to move back with pay cut (assuming)..
8. Is the oversea premium better than local pay + cpf contribution?
Just some questions for you ;)
Hi all,
I am writing to ask for the general opinion here in the forum.
The gist of it: Which Job will you choose?
1) Local listed company: Pay package S$120k (not including bonus) per annum, pay rises will be minimum for the next 2 years.
2) Overseas company: Pay package S$150k (not including bonus) per annum, with a high possibility of significant salary increase (>50%) within 1-2 years. The catch here is that time spent overseas will be more than 90% for the foreseeable future. One month can only be back for 2-3 days for about 1-2 years.
Background and Other points for consideration:
1) Age 34. Married with a young kid less than 2 years old and another baby on the way.
2) 2 properties (1 paid up and 1 property still with a loan of >500k)
3) Wife has given her blessing to work overseas
4) Wife has a stable job which is also not bad paying (>S$100k per annum)
I have given the above so that any views can take into account all salient factors (ie family make up, age, loans, earning power etc).
I appreciate all sincere viewpoints and advices.
PS: I am very attached to my little one.
Either wife quits her job n the whole family follows the husband or husband takes up the local job. Min. $200k for this kind of overseas job else not worth!
If u have a boy, the formation years to have a father around will definitely have a very important n positive effect for the child!
There r many families that I have come across where the husbands travel most of the times. Somehow the boys r not so socialable n confident! Nowadays very common!
Well it really depends on what u value in life n yr priorities that will help u make the decision!
friend of mine his son basically grew up with the father seldom around as friend is a busy businessman. Later the parents divorced and the kid is now in his early teens and absolutely fine and well behaved and well adjusted. So i think it really depends...
The difference in your household income is not that different between the 2 postings. 220k against 250k... That's marginal. Don't do it for the money.
If you do it, it's for other reasons, like experience, job prospects etc.
stay with kids, the early period till pre-school is suppose to be their happiest and most important phase. I think they deserve it.:D :D
you were such a bad boy ;).
failing your studies to get parental attention.How did you guess! Thought nobody can see that! Lol! :cool:
mightyreds185
21-05-12, 21:22
For a company that tells me that I have a high possibility of >50% salary increase within 1-2 years, I will be highly skeptical. Either put it in writing or not mention at all.
Hi all, just back. Noted that anyone will be highly skeptical. Lets just say the increment is contractual but not guaranteed as it depends on market conditions and the successful execution of a project.
Actually, it is not just the 50% increment if successful. There is a certain substantial contractual bonus which i did not mention which is also subject to the successful execution of the project.
Needless to say if the project fails, the 50% increment and bonus will not happened.
Earlier i mentioned that its 1-2 years, however, in reality the timeframe could be shorter than that. It is very much dependent on market conditions either in Singapore or Hong Kong. 1-2 years is the longest the project could drag before termination.
Based on your post, it appears that you've already signed to travel...
mightyreds185
21-05-12, 21:32
1. What is the tax structure oversea?
2. Are you in a booming or sunset industry in Singapore?
What is your plan after 2 year? move back ? Stay oversea?
3. How much tax to pay when move back with your money?
4. How much can you save after factor in the living expenses oversea compare to living together with family here with local pay?
5. Are you prepare to deal with the emotion, missing the family? Wife needing your support, etc?
6. Third party? ...
7. are you willing to move back with pay cut (assuming)..
8. Is the oversea premium better than local pay + cpf contribution?
Just some questions for you ;)
1) My quoted annual salary will be received in Singapore. Hence, subject to the same level of taxes as the local listed company income.
2) It is a sunset FMCG local catalist listed company, hence my dilemma
3) Not applicable
4) I can save all the money. Overseas living expenses catered for.
5) I do not know if i can take it. Currently, my wife feels that she should be able to handle. She works in a company where management travels all the time too. So to her it is very common.
6) I will try my best.
7) It will be time for another project by then.
8) Yes
CondoInterested
21-05-12, 21:35
If me, I won't go, I had 2 opp to go, insist other half to go with me, but other half say I can go alone.
Don't take that as my answer, as there is no right and wrong answer here.
It really depends on you, your wife, kids and extended family. It also depends on you and your spouse character. It also depend how often you can get a "free" come home paid by company.
Most friends around me whose family lives apart, almost all end up living apart forever. The "depends" I mentioned above only determines how fast the family will live apart forever. Some of my friends, few years, some even more than 10 yrs (in between still have children somemore). If your family is like the later can last more than 10 yrs apart, few yrs make a quick buck and come home for good or bring spouse over for good as it is very important for both parents to be around especially when kids start school. If your family is the type can only tahan few yrs, better not risk.
Only you can give yourself an answer, cause you are the only one who knows your own family well.
Make your right choice and Good luck
mightyreds185
21-05-12, 21:36
Based on your post, it appears that you've already signed to travel...
Actually, i am flying up on Wednesday to assess the company and meet the overseas company directors. I still have time to think through. I didn't sign the contract today because there were some variations to the contract and i told them i needed time to think through. They were kind enough to suggest i fly up first before making a decision.
Truth be told, i will loathe to miss seeing my daughter everyday.
mightyreds185
21-05-12, 21:40
I was just having this conversation with my wife a minute ago. When i tell her the responses from the forum, she laughs.
Her response was that people nowadays need to travel for work all the time, including the people around us. My sis-in-law just went NZ for 2 yrs for a overseas posting.
She is really quite cool with it and left the decision up to me.
She said and i quote: "Aiya, xxx is so still so young, she will not remember!
Its not like you will be gone forever!"
Actually, i am flying up on Wednesday to assess the company and meet the overseas company directors. I still have time to think through. I didn't sign the contract today because there were some variations to the contract and i told them i needed time to think through. They were kind enough to suggest i fly up first before making a decision.
Truth be told, i will loathe to miss seeing my daughter everyday.Well the decision is still yours to make. Make a decision that you know you will not regret later! :)
mightyreds185
21-05-12, 21:44
Well the decision is still yours to make. Make a decision that you know you will not regret later! :)
Thank you. I know. Just hope i make the right choice.
Heart says stay home. Head says 要拼才会赢.
CondoInterested
21-05-12, 22:04
Pls dont show her my this post ok.
Last time my other half also give me blessing to do my master degree, in Singapore somemore, about 2 to 3 yrs.
Starting ok, cause investment little little, relax relax, a lot of time at home casual reading.
Near to graduation, invested more already, so bo biang, go to school library with school mates to study together and share share info later to save time. So spent a lot of time outside and less time at home.
The rest of the story, think I no need to explain further ...
"Why last time got time at home, recently no time?" :D
there is no right or wrong, a choice is a choice.
nobody see past the choice.
But after chosen your path pls dont regret.
Only losers will say " if back then I choose that path ...bla bla bla..."
The honkies has such a saying - if got to know earlier, there is NO BEGGAR!
I will choose job #2.
Reasons (other than higher salary):
- children do not remember you when they are <4 years' old. They won't know or remember whether you are there.
- the higher you climb, the more control you have over your work arrangements. You may not have much control within the next 2 years at job #2 but you are likely to have more control after 2 years; whereas in job #1 you are not likely to have much control over your work for the next 5 years.
Should not just said got pay rise & higher salary. More accurate to compute it as income per hour - monthly income divided by number of hours spent on work ( travelling, time spent on work in office, home, etc..)
I will choose job #2.
Reasons (other than higher salary):
- children do not remember you when they are <4 years' old. They won't know or remember whether you are there.
- the higher you climb, the more control you have over your work arrangements. You may not have much control within the next 2 years at job #2 but you are likely to have more control after 2 years; whereas in job #1 you are not likely to have much control over your work for the next 5 years.
I have one simple principle:
Family must go together, no matter which country.
You may also need to calculate the cost of living, schooling, tax, etc.
I was once offered a job in Japan paying 3 times as my Singapore pay, but after a careful calculation, the money left in pocket is just 20% more. So no go.
Thanks,
Richard
Watching your children grow up is a priceless experience. No amount of money can buy that.
To me I believe it works best to find the best work life balance that will maximize earnings.
You may be able to earn more money/opportunities etc, but what you have lost with your kids will never be replaceable in anyway.
Just my :2cents:
1) My quoted annual salary will be received in Singapore. Hence, subject to the same level of taxes as the local listed company income.
2) It is a sunset FMCG local catalist listed company, hence my dilemma
3) Not applicable
4) I can save all the money. Overseas living expenses catered for.
5) I do not know if i can take it. Currently, my wife feels that she should be able to handle. She works in a company where management travels all the time too. So to her it is very common.
6) I will try my best.
7) It will be time for another project by then.
8) Yes
Sounds like a good deal.
Your wife is also having good income, is she busy at work? With 2 kids can be very taxing, unless she has good helper at home.. :cheers1:
Should not just said got pay rise & higher salary. More accurate to compute it as income per hour - monthly income divided by number of hours spent on work ( travelling, time spent on work in office, home, etc..)
There is no guarantee on the number of working hours for both jobs.
The 120K job#1 may require longer hours than job#2's work+travel time. That's why can't make a conclusion about income per hour.
mightyreds185
21-05-12, 23:03
Sounds like a good deal.
Your wife is also having good income, is she busy at work? With 2 kids can be very taxing, unless she has good helper at home.. :cheers1:
Not very busy at work. Standard 9 to 6. Our mum-in-law takes care of the kid. We have engaged a helper to help my mum-in-law since the first child is born.
Now is every morning send my kiddo to mil's place and fetch back at night. Weekend take care of them on our own...
Not very busy at work. Standard 9 to 6. Our mum-in-law takes care of the kid. We have engaged a helper to help my mum-in-law since the first child is born.
Now is every morning send my kiddo to mil's place and fetch back at night. Weekend take care of them on our own...
Seems that you have covered all necessary preparations. All the best! :cheers4:
Hi all,
I am writing to ask for the general opinion here in the forum.
The gist of it: Which Job will you choose?
1) Local listed company: Pay package S$120k (not including bonus) per annum, pay rises will be minimum for the next 2 years.
2) Overseas company: Pay package S$150k (not including bonus) per annum, with a high possibility of significant salary increase (>50%) within 1-2 years. The catch here is that time spent overseas will be more than 90% for the foreseeable future. One month can only be back for 2-3 days for about 1-2 years.
Background and Other points for consideration:
1) Age 34. Married with a young kid less than 2 years old and another baby on the way.
2) 2 properties (1 paid up and 1 property still with a loan of >500k)
3) Wife has given her blessing to work overseas
4) Wife has a stable job which is also not bad paying (>S$100k per annum)
I have given the above so that any views can take into account all salient factors (ie family make up, age, loans, earning power etc).
I appreciate all sincere viewpoints and advices.
PS: I am very attached to my little one.
I had the similar case years years back. I took the decision to stay back as are still young.
I never regret my decision, in fact I saw my kids closeness to me tell me that I had made the right decision...
Yes... if one travels overseas for sometime and returns, he must be prepared that the kid will not want him to carry, will hide behind mum, will reject him because of unfamiliarity initially... yes! :o
buttercarp
22-05-12, 09:24
My hubby was presented with a similar decision some years back with a potential of double his income including very good life and medical insurance coverage.
Our kids were pre schoolers at that time with one about to enter P1.
The only different thing from your situation was that I would be guaranteed of a job in the host country.
It was very attractive.
I told my hubby the decision was up to him as I am a very flexible person.
Language is not a barrier for me either.
However he decided against it as he wanted our kids to grow up in Singapore.
As the job was for about 2 years, he was afraid that they would not be able to adapt to the education system here once we returned. He places a lot of emphasis on their education.
So we stayed put in Singapore.
Had he taken up the job, I believe that it would open a whole new world of opportunity.
But right now, I am happy with my present life and can't picture it to be better although it might have been if he had chosen otherwise.
My hubby was presented with a similar decision some years back with a potential of double his income including very good life and medical insurance coverage.
Our kids were pre schoolers at that time with one about to enter P1.
The only different thing from your situation was that I would be guaranteed of a job in the host country.
It was very attractive.
I told my hubby the decision was up to him as I am a very flexible person.
Language is not a barrier for me either.
However he decided against it as he wanted our kids to grow up in Singapore.
As the job was for about 2 years, he was afraid that they would not be able to adapt to the education system here once we returned. He places a lot of emphasis on their education.
So we stayed put in Singapore.
Had he taken up the job, I believe that it would open a whole new world of opportunity.
But right now, I am happy with my present life and can't picture it to be better although it might have been if he had chosen otherwise.
Or it might have been worse. :) Bird in hand better than angry birds in the bush...
A child needs their parents most during primary school days. Parents will miss their kid's infant stage the most.
Go for overseas posting and give it a try. You are at your prime age in building up your career and opportunity do not knock twice. You need to worry about your wife more than the kids at this point in time. Please do not hesitate to come back if your wife are not able to cope.
mightyreds185
22-05-12, 11:52
To all who have invested the time to present their views, i thank you.
It is therefore also time to end this thread.
I didn't sleep much last night, as today is the day i decide whether to fly up tomorrow.
After much thought, and push having came to shove, i chose to follow my heart and stay in Singapore. Just gave them a call to politely reject the offer.
To those who still are skeptical about 50% pay increase and what not, let me now tell you what the job offer was... S-Chip IPO CFO. Those who are in the know will understand that the listing bonus is a few hundred thousand.
Let's say market conditions are ideal and the Company list within a year. I am looking at 150k + 300k within a year. Stay on as CFO for another year will pocket another 200k.
Say market not so good and list in 2 years, still looking at quite a substantial amount.
In addition, having broken into the S-Chip IPO market, future deals will be waiting.
Contrast that to my 120k a year job. That is a fortune that i just threw away with a phone-call.
As with any choices, there will be pros and cons. I was brought up poor and is from a humble background. The importance of money has never been stressed enough. Hence, it was quite a hard decision to make..............
However, i agree with many many of you in that there is nothing more important than that of the family. In pursuit of money, i was never really happy. All that changed with the birth of my first child because i found myself constantly smiling and laughing (until their terrible twos i guess). I also want to see my little dragon boy that is coming very soon.
The next important consideration was my cock. I loved my wife and my kid very very much. It is all well and good promising the earth to your loved ones that you will be good, you will be faithful forever and ever. But think about it, 90% of the time way alone in a foreign country.... What can go wrong might just go wrong.
I am a realist and not a saint, so i felt no point putting myself in the way of temptation and jeopardizing what i already have.
Once again, to all of you who have given your time and advices... Thanks all!
PS: I shall retreat to the sidelines and view the entertaining posts by you guys once again
wise choice.
family is more important than $$:)
Congrats mightreds185, u gonna have a son soon n u already have a gal, perfect pair 'hao'!
U reap what u sow! Yr sacrifice will definitely be rewarded which money cannot buy!
Enjoy yr family!
Looks like our efforts 'paid' off!!!!
Ps: i oso dragon boy....grrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!
Yowetan, you want to take up the offer? TS has already given the details of the job offer.
Yowetan, you want to take up the offer? TS has already given the details of the job offer.
Am I qualify?
Am I qualify?
.... I doubt so...
...you may need to brush up on your English first...
OMG... I can't believe it. :doh:
I think you and your husband have misunderstood what education should be about...
IMO, it is a poor poor decision.
My hubby was presented with a similar decision some years back with a potential of double his income including very good life and medical insurance coverage.
Our kids were pre schoolers at that time with one about to enter P1.
The only different thing from your situation was that I would be guaranteed of a job in the host country.
It was very attractive.
I told my hubby the decision was up to him as I am a very flexible person.
Language is not a barrier for me either.
However he decided against it as he wanted our kids to grow up in Singapore.
As the job was for about 2 years, he was afraid that they would not be able to adapt to the education system here once we returned. He places a lot of emphasis on their education.
So we stayed put in Singapore.
Had he taken up the job, I believe that it would open a whole new world of opportunity.
But right now, I am happy with my present life and can't picture it to be better although it might have been if he had chosen otherwise.
Bro... you are deluding yourself. Your current lifestyle is not exactly family oriented.
You are a part-time parent... sending your kids to somebody else's to look after during the week and only taking over at weekends is not a family friendly lifestyle. You had to do it... for what?... your wife's $100k income?... please..
Now wouldn't it better to tell your wife to quit her job, follow you overseas with your kids in tow and live properly as a family unit. I am sure your additional income and expatriate allowances will cover most of the loss of her income.
Don't be silly, pick up that phone and get that job back.
P.S. : Add one more condition.... minimum 3 years overseas, this will come in handy when requesting MOE for MT dispensation when the kids return and you choose to enrol them into local schools.
To all who have invested the time to present their views, i thank you.
It is therefore also time to end this thread.
I didn't sleep much last night, as today is the day i decide whether to fly up tomorrow.
After much thought, and push having came to shove, i chose to follow my heart and stay in Singapore. Just gave them a call to politely reject the offer.
To those who still are skeptical about 50% pay increase and what not, let me now tell you what the job offer was... S-Chip IPO CFO. Those who are in the know will understand that the listing bonus is a few hundred thousand.
Let's say market conditions are ideal and the Company list within a year. I am looking at 150k + 300k within a year. Stay on as CFO for another year will pocket another 200k.
Say market not so good and list in 2 years, still looking at quite a substantial amount.
In addition, having broken into the S-Chip IPO market, future deals will be waiting.
Contrast that to my 120k a year job. That is a fortune that i just threw away with a phone-call.
As with any choices, there will be pros and cons. I was brought up poor and is from a humble background. The importance of money has never been stressed enough. Hence, it was quite a hard decision to make..............
However, i agree with many many of you in that there is nothing more important than that of the family. In pursuit of money, i was never really happy. All that changed with the birth of my first child because i found myself constantly smiling and laughing (until their terrible twos i guess). I also want to see my little dragon boy that is coming very soon.
The next important consideration was my cock. I loved my wife and my kid very very much. It is all well and good promising the earth to your loved ones that you will be good, you will be faithful forever and ever. But think about it, 90% of the time way alone in a foreign country.... What can go wrong might just go wrong.
I am a realist and not a saint, so i felt no point putting myself in the way of temptation and jeopardizing what i already have.
Once again, to all of you who have given your time and advices... Thanks all!
PS: I shall retreat to the sidelines and view the entertaining posts by you guys once again
Thank you. I know. Just hope i make the right choice.
Heart says stay home. Head says 要拼才会赢.你要赢什么? You can't finish earning the money in the world... :o
To all who have invested the time to present their views, i thank you.
It is therefore also time to end this thread.
I didn't sleep much last night, as today is the day i decide whether to fly up tomorrow.
After much thought, and push having came to shove, i chose to follow my heart and stay in Singapore. Just gave them a call to politely reject the offer.
To those who still are skeptical about 50% pay increase and what not, let me now tell you what the job offer was... S-Chip IPO CFO. Those who are in the know will understand that the listing bonus is a few hundred thousand.
Let's say market conditions are ideal and the Company list within a year. I am looking at 150k + 300k within a year. Stay on as CFO for another year will pocket another 200k.
Say market not so good and list in 2 years, still looking at quite a substantial amount.
In addition, having broken into the S-Chip IPO market, future deals will be waiting.
Contrast that to my 120k a year job. That is a fortune that i just threw away with a phone-call.
As with any choices, there will be pros and cons. I was brought up poor and is from a humble background. The importance of money has never been stressed enough. Hence, it was quite a hard decision to make..............
However, i agree with many many of you in that there is nothing more important than that of the family. In pursuit of money, i was never really happy. All that changed with the birth of my first child because i found myself constantly smiling and laughing (until their terrible twos i guess). I also want to see my little dragon boy that is coming very soon.
The next important consideration was my cock. I loved my wife and my kid very very much. It is all well and good promising the earth to your loved ones that you will be good, you will be faithful forever and ever. But think about it, 90% of the time way alone in a foreign country.... What can go wrong might just go wrong.
I am a realist and not a saint, so i felt no point putting myself in the way of temptation and jeopardizing what i already have.
Once again, to all of you who have given your time and advices... Thanks all!
PS: I shall retreat to the sidelines and view the entertaining posts by you guys once againI am proud of you. I believe your daughter and eventually your son when he knows, will be v proud of you too. I think your wife will be quietly proud of you too. Finally, you can be proud of yourself too... :cheers4:
Remember there is no right and wrong answer, its about what you prioritize... cheers!
phantom_opera
22-05-12, 20:19
The next important consideration was my cock. I loved my wife and my kid very very much. It is all well and good promising the earth to your loved ones that you will be good, you will be faithful forever and ever. But think about it, 90% of the time way alone in a foreign country.... What can go wrong might just go wrong.
This alone has shown that you are a very wise man. Understanding oneself is already winning half the battle, I am sure you will have your opportunities later even without going overseas. And honestly a few hundred thousands not worth ... many brothers here just speculate property can make that much already in a few years
This alone has shown that you are a very wise man. Understanding oneself is already winning half the battle, I am sure you will have your opportunities later even without going overseas. And honestly a few hundred thousands not worth ... many brothers here just speculate property can make that much already in a few years
Wei... 不要教坏他...
Regulators
22-05-12, 20:25
To TS: seriously you might think the extra perks they give you overseas is a lot, but trust me, it is all factored in. if you are capable of earning six figures a year, you should be equally capable to find that money elsewhere. I won't leave my wife to handle two little ones alone (with or without network from parents) for even one month, not to mention years coz I will look back with regret later on. Your wife may give you the blessing becoz she knows you are very much into your career, but she would definitely be happier having you present than absent.
To TS: seriously you might think the extra perks they give you overseas is a lot, but trust me, it is all factored in. if you are capable of earning six figures a year, you should be equally capable to find that money elsewhere. I won't leave my wife to handle two little ones alone (with or without network from parents) for even one month, not to mention years coz I will look back with regret later on. Your wife may give you the blessing becoz she knows you are very much into your career, but she would definitely be happier having you present than absent.Like... I learnt it the hard way. My wife will not just say what she wants directly but if I make the 'right' choice, then she'll be really v happy... :)
U never know when u up lorry, so it is better to b able to b close to ur kids n wife. Ur salary is already quite good. Unless u r in need of so much money.
Regulators
22-05-12, 20:40
Good wives always know how to make sacrifices for their husbands, but we as husbands must know how to give back into the marriage. Leaving wife to work overseas at this crucial stage is a no no if the husband knows how to think for family and wife. My wife and I have no kids, but even then, I won't leave anywhere for even a week and leave my wife alone.
Like... I learnt it the hard way. My wife will not just say what she wants directly but if I make the 'right' choice, then she'll be really v happy... :)
I smiled at your decision. Family is priceless.
And laughed at the cock reason. So true. How to control it?
Hi all,
I am writing to ask for the general opinion here in the forum.
The gist of it: Which Job will you choose?
1) Local listed company: Pay package S$120k (not including bonus) per annum, pay rises will be minimum for the next 2 years.
2) Overseas company: Pay package S$150k (not including bonus) per annum, with a high possibility of significant salary increase (>50%) within 1-2 years. The catch here is that time spent overseas will be more than 90% for the foreseeable future. One month can only be back for 2-3 days for about 1-2 years.
Background and Other points for consideration:
1) Age 34. Married with a young kid less than 2 years old and another baby on the way.
2) 2 properties (1 paid up and 1 property still with a loan of >500k)
3) Wife has given her blessing to work overseas
4) Wife has a stable job which is also not bad paying (>S$100k per annum)
I have given the above so that any views can take into account all salient factors (ie family make up, age, loans, earning power etc).
I appreciate all sincere viewpoints and advices.
PS: I am very attached to my little one.
I think the overseas one may even provide you a Expat Plu package where your wife last drawn salary will be paid for 5 years provided the wife continue not to work.
At least thats what the HR circles is saying for expats that comes to Singapore.
Added to take you will be getting one week per year back to yr country / wife home town for a week without deducting your leave.
Company will pay for your tax as well and your children education as well at Intl school.
All in, you need to weight what the job entails.
It's not a closed case yet. Be prepared that they will come back with a better offer. Here is a list that you can go through:
http://www.expatsingapore.com/content/view/1133
Thanks,
Richard
http://www.expatarrivals.com/china/salaries-for-expats-in-china
CFO in China should be paid in the range of USD 240K.
Apparently they are short changing you a lot.
Thanks,
Richard
buttercarp
22-05-12, 23:25
Like... I learnt it the hard way. My wife will not just say what she wants directly but if I make the 'right' choice, then she'll be really v happy... :)
Sometimes you have to read in between the lines when a woman says yes.
It may be a yes but deep down it is otherwise.
Or sometimes she says yes cos she knows you want the answer to be a yes.
Give you an example of my case.
I can't imagine myself living in a landed house as all my life I have been living in high rise flats. But when I saw the joy in my hubby's eyes when we viewed a landed house, I just had to agree with him to get it. That joy in his eyes surpassed all other consideration! Of course my kids also played a part in the decision.
Good wives always know how to make sacrifices for their husbands, but we as husbands must know how to give back into the marriage. Leaving wife to work overseas at this crucial stage is a no no if the husband knows how to think for family and wife. My wife and I have no kids, but even then, I won't leave anywhere for even a week and leave my wife alone.Bravo to a thoughtful husband... :cheers5:
Good wives always know how to make sacrifices for their husbands, but we as husbands must know how to give back into the marriage. Leaving wife to work overseas at this crucial stage is a no no if the husband knows how to think for family and wife. My wife and I have no kids, but even then, I won't leave anywhere for even a week and leave my wife alone.
Regulator confirm male now... Keke. Join my contest? :p Any female to intro super lack of F2 F3 F4 F5
TS,
Congrats to your decision! To me, you had make the right decision. Life is not about money and money cannot buy your joy with family.
I'm so glad for you that many brothers and sisters in this forum had given you different perspectives which I also believe you know these perspectives but just needed more people to agree with you to make the decision.
As some said that the money you make from this job can be also earn through property. Well, the time spend with family is priceless especially with your new born baby. Imagine your child's classmates have their parents to fetch them while your child only have you wife. You might also regret for not spending time with the new born baby if you choose to go oversea.
Yes, your reason about faithfulness is very true. Men are weak animals when come to sex. I'm a man too so I know it. As for your wife, she should be very happy too.
Why marry? if you can stay alone to manage your own life and just work hard to earn a lot of money. Marriage is about companionship and responsibility.
Well, i have to say Congrats to your decision. You should feel proud of yourself. You are indeed a man who head the family with care and concern which are the intangible benefits that money cannot buy for your family especially your children.
Enjoy your life with your family!
So happy, so happy that a sensible decision is taken.
I believe your family will be so much happier.
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