any newbie questions ??...

[dtrax]

Hi bros,

Newbie here. Would like to check regarding The new measures that bank would only loan 60% if you have an existing loan. What if my loan with a bank for my current hdb left 30k. Would the loan from bank still 60% or it can be more depending on the bank? Is it a policy or depend on the banks decision?
Thinking of buying a condo with 80% loan if possible.
Thanks bros

you need to clear the 30k first HDB regardless before you can buy new condo at 80% LTV

[Vincegoh]

a newbie question.. i see some of the gurus quote that with 900k cash+cpf shld try 6-9 MMs at ard 1mil each...

but won't the LTV be reducing for each purchase? i.e. 1st MM at 20% downpymt, 2nd MM at 30% and 3rd MM at 40%+ABSD? :confused:

additionally, i know many of the gurus here believe it's always wise to hold on to the hdb (especially in central locations) for rental yield.. but is it worth the hassle going through the process, managing agents and tenants, maintaining the ppty, 10% ppty tax and personal income tax on rental income (which will be more than 10%) if the alternative is to cash out at a really good price and use the sales proceeds to buy a larger quantum PC instead (and hope for future price appreciation)?

[TheOnlyGayInTheVillage]

Hi bros,

Newbie here. Would like to check regarding The new measures that bank would only loan 60% if you have an existing loan. What if my loan with a bank for my current hdb left 30k. Would the loan from bank still 60% or it can be more depending on the bank? Is it a policy or depend on the banks decision?
Thinking of buying a condo with 80% loan if possible.
Thanks bros

Pay up the 30k first lor since you have $$$ to upgrade to condo. The extra 20% loan should be way more than that 30k you came out.

[TheOnlyGayInTheVillage]

a newbie question.. i see some of the gurus quote that with 900k cash+cpf shld try 6-9 MMs at ard 1mil each...

but won't the LTV be reducing for each purchase? i.e. 1st MM at 20% downpymt, 2nd MM at 30% and 3rd MM at 40%+ABSD? :confused:

additionally, i know many of the gurus here believe it's always wise to hold on to the hdb (especially in central locations) for rental yield.. but is it worth the hassle going through the process, managing agents and tenants, maintaining the ppty, 10% ppty tax and personal income tax on rental income (which will be more than 10%) if the alternative is to cash out at a really good price and use the sales proceeds to buy a larger quantum PC instead (and hope for future price appreciation)?

When u have that many MM u are probably running a full time biz as landlord dealing with leasing and maintenance issues. So be prepared to devote that kind of time if you are DIY.

[danntbt]

For FH, you have no concern that your lease is expiring therefore the value of the property will not fall but because of inflation and influential property prices, it will rise. For LH, once property hits 15 years old, its value cannot go up much. For enbloc, the developer needs to top up the lease. Singapore is relative young to talk about PC hitting 50 years old and more (coz not many) but that time will come v soon. :rolleyes:

.....just sold a 15 yr Castle Green bought 6 years ago at 100% profit.....plus 5x20K nett rental......which works out to another 25% returns...

[sh]

a newbie question.. i see some of the gurus quote that with 900k cash+cpf shld try 6-9 MMs at ard 1mil each...

but won't the LTV be reducing for each purchase? i.e. 1st MM at 20% downpymt, 2nd MM at 30% and 3rd MM at 40%+ABSD? :confused:

additionally, i know many of the gurus here believe it's always wise to hold on to the hdb (especially in central locations) for rental yield.. but is it worth the hassle going through the process, managing agents and tenants, maintaining the ppty, 10% ppty tax and personal income tax on rental income (which will be more than 10%) if the alternative is to cash out at a really good price and use the sales proceeds to buy a larger quantum PC instead (and hope for future price appreciation)?

don't forget that everytime you flip, you incurr 10% the cost of the property. how long does it take for prices to go up by 10%? If you're going to reinvest... why bother to sell and buy again... buy something smaller and keep the existing....:2cents:

[CCR]

.....just sold a 15 yr Castle Green bought 6 years ago at 100% profit.....plus 5x20K nett rental......which works out to another 25% returns...

Must tell Ah B.... he say property now drop 20% liao...

[Rein]

If got sgd400k cash now, will you all buy stock or buy condo/landed?

[Vincegoh]

don't forget that everytime you flip, you incurr 10% the cost of the property. how long does it take for prices to go up by 10%? If you're going to reinvest... why bother to sell and buy again... buy something smaller and keep the existing....:2cents:

paiseh.. why incur 10% the cost of the ppty when we flip? cos of the ssd and legal fees? :confused:

if sell after 4yrs should be minimal right? :confused:

[CP5211]

Newbie question:
When buying property for investment/rental income, should one be concerned with the facing of the unit (whether got afternoon sun, pool view etc) and whether is it high floor or low floor? Thank you!

[CP5211]

don't think we'll consider a 3rd one - still feel safer with cash. we'll probably live in the pc for some yrs, and if there's a need to increase cash flow, then move back to hdb and rent out pc.
After buying our first private property for $1.35 million in June 2008 with a loan of $1 million, myself and my wife stopped investing and held on to our cash of around S$700k. Today, we regretted not investing as with inflation, we realised the value of our cash has shrunk. Looking at 2nd private property now though it may be abit late.

[CP5211]

But not property. Look out for undervalued blue chips but not now. Beware of certain bonds, gold & commodities? Waiting for good buy in London property. Watch after Olympic.
Hi, am looking at London properties also. Jones Lang LaSalle is marketing a few London properties. Downside there is capital gains tax of 40%

[TheOnlyGayInTheVillage]

Newbie question:
When buying property for investment/rental income, should one be concerned with the facing of the unit (whether got afternoon sun, pool view etc) and whether is it high floor or low floor? Thank you!

As long as you intend to house living subjects in it, yes,

[CP5211]

Hi everyone,
From investment point of view, is it better to buy 1 unit, say 2.5 million or 2 units say around 1.2 million each? For risk diversification, is it better to buy 2 units? Would appreciate any advice. Thank you!

[sh]

Hi everyone,
From investment point of view, is it better to buy 1 unit, say 2.5 million or 2 units say around 1.2 million each? For risk diversification, is it better to buy 2 units? Would appreciate any advice. Thank you!

2 smaller properties for rental will give you better rental returns than 1 bigger property, also more diversified.

But.... Second property will incurr 60 LTV.... Do your sums....:2cents:

[ysyap]

2 smaller properties for rental will give you better rental returns than 1 bigger property, also more diversified.

But.... Second property will incurr 60 LTV.... Do your sums....:2cents:Can get a 3 bedder and a 2 bedder. The more expensive unit will take 80% LTV while the cheaper one will incur the 60% LTV. In that way, can still save money. :D

[sh]

Can get a 3 bedder and a 2 bedder. The more expensive unit will take 80% LTV while the cheaper one will incur the 60% LTV. In that way, can still save money. :D

Or better still.... Get 3 MMs... MM rules:cheers5:

But seriously... If you're nervous about the market... Buy 1 a year... Spread your purchase out... Sort of like dollar cost averaging.... If market goes up. You make money... If market goes down... You get to buy a bigger unit the next year....

[Kelonguni]

Or better still.... Get 3 MMs... MM rules:cheers5:

But seriously... If you're nervous about the market... Buy 1 a year... Spread your purchase out... Sort of like dollar cost averaging.... If market goes up. You make money... If market goes down... You get to buy a bigger unit the next year....

Super like your idea. Problem is dough not so much. Maybe one every 3-5 years possible.

[CP5211]

Thank you everyone for your valuable advice!

[Rein]

Hi all, advice needed for newbie

- wifey and me are early 30s
- never bought/ owned hdb due to income not qualifying.
- bought a PC as a first home
- have spare cash


Thinking of selling / gifting pc to aging parents so that I can buy a resale HDB flat.

Would the bank (loan for the pc) agree to this arrangement if I include myself as a co-borrower in the pc loan? Parents aging so might not qualify

More importantly, having my name as a co-borrower/applicant for the pc loan (without my name as legal owner) will hopefully not violate the no ownership of PC during HDB MOP

Doable?

[carbuncle]

What do you mean? Have you or have you not bought the PC?

If you have bought, still wanna amend the ownership? It will incur stamp duty.

If you still have mortgage on it, you are correct in that one of you either you or your wife need to be the mortgagor. Unless of course you can fully redeem and pay off the loan, then by all means gift it to your dad.

In that aspect, whoever over 35 supposed to be able to buy a resale HDB wherever. However, since you are married, you have to form the family nucleus. So means neither of you can own private property.

If the bank allows you to be just the borrower of the PC, but under your dad name, are you gonna stay in the HDB as occupant? Or are you gonna stay in the PC with your dad and rent out the whole HDB (you gonna have to wait 5 years MOP and even so they may not approve).

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10326p.nsf/w/ChgOwnerAddOccupiers?OpenDocument#EligibilityCriteria2

For flat owners who have not completed the required minimum occupation period for their flat:

Proposed occupiers must not have an interest in any private property.

Proposed occupiers can however be ex-owners of private property (including HUDC Phase 1 and 2 flats and pre-war flats).

For flat owners who have completed the required minimum occupation period:

Proposed occupiers can be the owners of private property, for investment purposes.

[ikan bilis]

think he meant he already bought and holding a PC now, trying to find some ways/loopholes to purchase a HDB as second property... the PC is still not fully paid (still having some loan now) so unable to transfer to parents' name easily...


and don;t know... too cheem... need to ask bankers or mortgage brokers... and where is our newbie11 ah ??...
... may be the bank will take him as guarantor for the loan to his parents' condo (after transferring)... and he can go ahead and get the hdb... may be the bank will issue this type of loan, let's say his parent already has a fully paid hdb and MOP over... :confused:

[CondoWE]

think he meant he already bought and holding a PC now, trying to find some ways/loopholes to purchase a HDB as second property... the PC is still not fully paid (still having some loan now) so unable to transfer to parents' name easily...


and don;t know... too cheem... need to ask bankers or mortgage brokers... and where is our newbie11 ah ??...
... may be the bank will take him as guarantor for the loan to his parents' condo (after transferring)... and he can go ahead and get the hdb... may be the bank will issue this type of loan, let's say his parent already has a fully paid hdb and MOP over... :confused:

There will be a stamp fee incur regardless of selling, ownership transfering or giving his parent the PC as free gift leh..imho not worth and not wise to it.

[Rein]

think he meant he already bought and holding a PC now, trying to find some ways/loopholes to purchase a HDB as second property... the PC is still not fully paid (still having some loan now) so unable to transfer to parents' name easily...


and don;t know... too cheem... need to ask bankers or mortgage brokers... and where is our newbie11 ah ??...
... may be the bank will take him as guarantor for the loan to his parents' condo (after transferring)... and he can go ahead and get the hdb... may be the bank will issue this type of loan, let's say his parent already has a fully paid hdb and MOP over... :confused:

Hi all

Thanks for advice. Yup that's exactly what I meant

I have a pc with loan now but spare cash on hand so wanted to buy another property.. Another 1.5m pc seems a little too big a risk for me now so I was thinking a 700k HDb may suit my needs better

But I do hear the point that this transfer will cost me 30k stamp duty and another 5k for 2 sets of lawyers for myself and parents

Not sure if the extra 35k would be worth it in the bigger scheme of things but as you know... HDb can get 8% rental yield once the 5 year MOP finish

[ysyap]

Hi all

Thanks for advice. Yup that's exactly what I meant

I have a pc with loan now but spare cash on hand so wanted to buy another property.. Another 1.5m pc seems a little too big a risk for me now so I was thinking a 700k HDb may suit my needs better

But I do hear the point that this transfer will cost me 30k stamp duty and another 5k for 2 sets of lawyers for myself and parents

Not sure if the extra 35k would be worth it in the bigger scheme of things but as you know... HDb can get 8% rental yield once the 5 year MOP finishI'm not sure if this has been discussed earlier but why not go for a $700k studio PC or a $900k 2 bedder PC? No need to wait for 5 years to enjoy rental yield. :o

[carbuncle]

are u like willing the pc to your dad? coz if u r just using his name to hold it or expect him to will back to u... its not a guarantee esp in today society were parent and child can sue each other.

just being careful thats all.

[DC33_2008]

By then it will not be 8% with so much fierce competition in the rental market with a qualification if there is a further increase in population with foreigners.
Hi all

Thanks for advice. Yup that's exactly what I meant

I have a pc with loan now but spare cash on hand so wanted to buy another property.. Another 1.5m pc seems a little too big a risk for me now so I was thinking a 700k HDb may suit my needs better

But I do hear the point that this transfer will cost me 30k stamp duty and another 5k for 2 sets of lawyers for myself and parents

Not sure if the extra 35k would be worth it in the bigger scheme of things but as you know... HDb can get 8% rental yield once the 5 year MOP finish

[CondoWE]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed earlier but why not go for a $700k studio PC or a $900k 2 bedder PC? No need to wait for 5 years to enjoy rental yield. :o

Totally agreed .

[CondoWE]

are u like willing the pc to your dad? coz if u r just using his name to hold it or expect him to will back to u... its not a guarantee esp in today society were parent and child can sue each other.

just being careful thats all.

hahaha...there will alway a high risk :hell-hath-no-fury: !

Anything happen to parent, brothers and sisters may come over to fight for a share of the PC...:banghead: !

[DC33_2008]

Is it really worth it? One day in the future when the property is transferred back to you, the stamp fee will even be higher.
Hi all

Thanks for advice. Yup that's exactly what I meant

I have a pc with loan now but spare cash on hand so wanted to buy another property.. Another 1.5m pc seems a little too big a risk for me now so I was thinking a 700k HDb may suit my needs better

But I do hear the point that this transfer will cost me 30k stamp duty and another 5k for 2 sets of lawyers for myself and parents

Not sure if the extra 35k would be worth it in the bigger scheme of things but as you know... HDb can get 8% rental yield once the 5 year MOP finish

[phantom_opera]

Just buy MM near mrt lah,

[stiook]

Hi all

Thanks for advice. Yup that's exactly what I meant

I have a pc with loan now but spare cash on hand so wanted to buy another property.. Another 1.5m pc seems a little too big a risk for me now so I was thinking a 700k HDb may suit my needs better

But I do hear the point that this transfer will cost me 30k stamp duty and another 5k for 2 sets of lawyers for myself and parents

Not sure if the extra 35k would be worth it in the bigger scheme of things but as you know... HDb can get 8% rental yield once the 5 year MOP finish

lucky for you only pay 3% SSD... if you bought after all the CMs, may have to pay more.

[ikan bilis]

my guess/or what i think...

- transferring condo to parent and buy hdb: It will be difficult for authorities (hdb/mas) to nail you down. what can they do if you transfer your condo to parents as gift ??... main problems will be on bank side

- loan on condo: Believe still able to get the bank loan if says, parents already own a fully paid hdb and you be the guarantor for the bank loan. If parents are too old for mortgage loan, may be could take Overdraft if LTV is low. but note that interest rate is much higher and bank could suka suka call/ask-payback the overdraft. (OD could be more flexible, e.g. can do interest payment only, may be no lock in and etc)

- cpf: if you are using cpf to purchase the condo, the cpf$$ borrowed must be returned to your cpf a/c when transferring condo to parents

- buying resale hdb (more as some investment): each person will have his own preference or choice... for me i also like to hold hdb than private condo... to me, i have difficulties in finding any alternative investments more secure/less risky, high yield, good capital appreciating potential than holding hdb... (yield should be about 6% and not 8%)... for me, my main problem is my hdb very lok-kok-kok liow and noisy due to near expressway... will have hard time knowing what to do when my tenant returns it to me... haiz... :(

- buying a 2nd condo instead of hdb: this could be the only choice once you are holding a condo,... for me, i might be forced to sell my hdb and buy a 2nd ocr condo... but me very reluctant to take up more loan$... sianz... :(

- note/disclaimer: me not any expert hor... just a small fish swimming around and tcss... ;)

[phantom_opera]

@ikan bilis, HDB yield 6% gross yield, if you minus agent, furniture, tax etc at most 5%, you can easily find a 10-20y bond or perpetual bond or preference shares yielding about 4-5% (or a mixture of STI ETF + 10y bond that can yield 6%)

if you HDB is old and near expressway, there is not much capital appreciation and maintenance cost will become higher over time ... it is better to sell, you still have about 2-3y time ;)

@Rein ... don't be crazy, not a good idea at all to transfer PC to your parents and buy a resale HDB ... even if you start the process now, you are most likely buying it next year which is almost at peak prices and u need to pay agent to find one for u and the MOP will trap u, u might as well buy star buy units at eight river suites

[Rein]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed earlier but why not go for a $700k studio PC or a $900k 2 bedder PC? No need to wait for 5 years to enjoy rental yield. :o

Nowadays 900k for 2BR pc unlikely to go in good location..

So lets say if got budget for 900k pc

3BR LH in suburbs (yishun, sembawang, CCK) or 1BR FH in D9/D10 is better?

[Rein]

@ikan bilis, HDB yield 6% gross yield, if you minus agent, furniture, tax etc at most 5%, you can easily find a 10-20y bond or perpetual bond or preference shares yielding about 4-5% (or a mixture of STI ETF + 10y bond that can yield 6%)

if you HDB is old and near expressway, there is not much capital appreciation and maintenance cost will become higher over time ... it is better to sell, you still have about 2-3y time ;)

@Rein ... don't be crazy, not a good idea at all to transfer PC to your parents and buy a resale HDB ... even if you start the process now, you are most likely buying it next year which is almost at peak prices and u need to pay agent to find one for u and the MOP will trap u, u might as well buy star buy units at eight river suites


From all feedback.. seems like most would just go ahead to invest in pc... not worth it to pay 35k and benefit IRAS and lawyers

But some do also see the benefit / higher yield of a HDB..


"you are most likely buying it next year which is almost at peak price" - But wouldnt that mean PC prices will also have peaked, similar to HDB?

[Arcachon]

From all feedback.. seems like most would just go ahead to invest in pc... not worth it to pay 35k and benefit IRAS and lawyers

But some do also see the benefit / higher yield of a HDB..


"you are most likely buying it next year which is almost at peak price" - But wouldnt that mean PC prices will also have peaked, similar to HDB?

Don't need to wait till next year.

Election or Not, QE3 Is Coming in September



http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/election-not-qe3-coming-september-economist-143846129.html

[hopeful]

Hi all, advice needed for newbie

- wifey and me are early 30s
- never bought/ owned hdb due to income not qualifying.
- bought a PC as a first home
- have spare cash

Thinking of selling / gifting pc to aging parents so that I can buy a resale HDB flat. .........


1) since both of you already early 30s. wait for a few more years. divorce and each can buy HDB resale flat.
2) the few years wait is long enough for the next crash to happen, you can buy cheap resale HDB and private properties.
3) since you started playing property on the wrong foot, ie buy PC first instead of HDB first, no choice but to dispose condo. dispose it and get 2 HDB. but dont get HDB resale now!
it is a hassle staying 2-3 years with parents/parents in law. but your 2 HDB and condos will make it worthwhile.

[Rein]

hahaha...there will alway a high risk :hell-hath-no-fury: !

Anything happen to parent, brothers and sisters may come over to fight for a share of the PC...:banghead: !

Way to minimise this risk is to sell the property to parents and get them to gear up 80%. so my real risk in the 20% downpayment i "helped" to pay. This risk i still can stomach =D

loan tenure may be a problem but i think I can be included in the loan agreement (but not as owner) to lengthen the mortgage period. But can only go to 60% LTV when i buy the HDB then

[yowetan]

Hi all, advice needed for newbie

- wifey and me are early 30s
- never bought/ owned hdb due to income not qualifying.
- bought a PC as a first home
- have spare cash


Thinking of selling / gifting pc to aging parents so that I can buy a resale HDB flat.

Would the bank (loan for the pc) agree to this arrangement if I include myself as a co-borrower in the pc loan? Parents aging so might not qualify

More importantly, having my name as a co-borrower/applicant for the pc loan (without my name as legal owner) will hopefully not violate the no ownership of PC during HDB MOP

Doable?

Hi. Could you share what's your household income.

Also, how much disposal income do you have at the moment? What's your current condominium profile and price? How much did you pay for the condo, and what is the current pricing etc?

[CondoWE]

Way to minimise this risk is to sell the property to parents and get them to gear up 80%. so my real risk in the 20% downpayment i "helped" to pay. This risk i still can stomach =D

loan tenure may be a problem but i think I can be included in the loan agreement (but not as owner) to lengthen the mortgage period. But can only go to 60% LTV when i buy the HDB then

Hi bro,
Servicing 2 loans is no joke :simmering: ! For me, i have gone through peak season when the bank interest hitted 4-5%.

IMHO, Beside spare cash to buy another property to stay or investment, you must have at least 2-3yrs of holding power in your saving just in case of unforeseen circumstance..such crissis , lost job....etc :scared-2: .

Think twice, discuss to spouse carefully...:simmering: !