View Full Version : Unpredictable outcome of shoebox apartments
FilthyRich
16-05-12, 09:59
An article states that shoebox units continue to grow from the current 2500 completed apartment to 9700 in 2015.
As of now, 80% of these unit are found in the Central Regions of Singapore, however in time to come a larger percentage would fall into the heartlands of Singapore.
More of the middle income class would than be tempted to invest in such units to reap the high rental yield.
However, Minister of National Development Stated, and warned that the heartland is still an 'untested market' for shoebox units, and that the response may be unpredictable.
PLUS the government will not hesitate to intervene if situations gets out of hand.
SOURCE (http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/singapore-property-news/shoebox-units-an-untested-market-in-heartland-khaw/a/65803)
In my opinion, housing pricing issue is already highly volatile, and this is the time for the government to step in, before the situation gets overly complicated.
TOTALLY AGREE. Ban MM from all regions other than CCR!!!!! Existing OCR MM owners to pay reduced property tax due to untested potential...
TOTALLY AGREE. Ban MM from all regions other than CCR!!!!! Existing OCR MM owners to pay reduced property tax due to untested potential...
Very clever.:)
ikan bilis
16-05-12, 13:04
we have approx about 1mil units of hdb.... and >200K of private residential units ??...
to me hor,... 10K units of MM still looks a bit low in percentage... "untested" does not mean you will get your finger/pectoral-fin burnt in MM...
don't listen to that cow's "cow-bear-cow-bull" lah... :D
(and note hor,... me not invested in MM and also do not like MM,... and that khaw/cow is still always my idol...)
:cool:
we have approx about 1mil units of hdb.... and >200K of private residential units ??...
to me hor,... 10K units of MM still looks a bit low in percentage... "untested" does not mean you will get your finger/pectoral-fin burnt in MM...
don't listen to that cow's "cow-bear-cow-bull" lah... :D
(and note hor,... me not invested in MM and also do not like MM,... and that khaw is still always my idol...)
:cool:Who is that cow? KBW, your idol? :spliff2:
KBW might not be aware that many of the buyers with HDB addresses might not be buying MM purely for investment. I believe a large portion of the buyers are older singles who choose to buy MM rather than the inflated resale 3-rm HDB flats. There are also many young "successful" singles now living in HDB flats (with their parents) who want to move out to live independently. They choose to buy MM as they belong to the younger generation with aspiration for condo living.
These two group of people could well make up the majority of the buyers with HDB addresses. They are more than happy to live in confined space and see the opportunity to lease out their MM when they should ever get married someday.
I believe MM in suburban will continue to serve this growing market not serve by public flats.
KBW could well be right to say that he might not know more than what developers or investors know about MM.
Any CM if any I believe will be to curb demand and rising prices in the mass market segment to maintain a more sustainable market.
Shoeboxsupporter
16-05-12, 14:26
An article states that shoebox units continue to grow from the current 2500 completed apartment to 9700 in 2015.
As of now, 80% of these unit are found in the Central Regions of Singapore, however in time to come a larger percentage would fall into the heartlands of Singapore.
More of the middle income class would than be tempted to invest in such units to reap the high rental yield.
However, Minister of National Development Stated, and warned that the heartland is still an 'untested market' for shoebox units, and that the response may be unpredictable.
PLUS the government will not hesitate to intervene if situations gets out of hand.
SOURCE (http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/singapore-property-news/shoebox-units-an-untested-market-in-heartland-khaw/a/65803)
In my opinion, housing pricing issue is already highly volatile, and this is the time for the government to step in, before the situation gets overly complicated.
How to step in ? We have no clues how Government can step in, instead of benefit existing MM owners !
Govt will take 1-2 years to monitor e vacancy, rental, owner occupancy etc. Most OCR MMs haven't even TOP so there is actually v little to monitor. As long as price does not increase too much or VIPs complain abt MM in their neighbourhood, unlikely for further action.
we have approx about 1mil units of hdb.... and >200K of private residential units ??...
to me hor,... 10K units of MM still looks a bit low in percentage... "untested" does not mean you will get your finger/pectoral-fin burnt in MM...
don't listen to that cow's "cow-bear-cow-bull" lah... :D
(and note hor,... me not invested in MM and also do not like MM,... and that khaw/cow is still always my idol...)
:cool:
Ah ya la... it's only 1% only the MM!!!
How to step in ? We have no clues how Government can step in, instead of benefit existing MM owners !
What's wrong with benefitting existing owners??? They took huge risk jumping in early when market is still largely UNTESTED!!!!
UNTESTED UNTESTED UNTESTED UNTESTED UNTESTED UNTESTED UNTESTED UNTESTED UNTESTED UNTESTED UNTESTED UNTESTED
My new favorite term
D19 Kovan Grandeur (fetch rental as high as 2.6k)
D16 Eastwood Regency (very decent rents around 2.3k)
D14 Palmera East (just TOP)
D14 Cosmo (super high rental I think got 2.8k before)
D14 Centra Suites (just TOP)
D14 Centra Studios (just TOP)
D14 a lot others.... in Geylang - already TOP
D13 Suites @ Braddell (2.3k no problem)
D12 City Regency (2.5k not a problem)
D12 Airstream (just TOP)
D12 Suites @ Topaz (just TOP)
D05 Parc Imperial (need I say more???)
D05 The Foliage, Maylea (~2.6k)
and a lot more I haven't covered...
Simi UNTESTED!!!!!????
To what extent then considered TESTED?? Fetch 4k??
Or are those that I mentioned all in CCR??
http://spring.ura.gov.sg/lad/ore/login/map_ccr.pdf
An article states that shoebox units continue to grow from the current 2500 completed apartment to 9700 in 2015.
As of now, 80% of these unit are found in the Central Regions of Singapore, however in time to come a larger percentage would fall into the heartlands of Singapore.
More of the middle income class would than be tempted to invest in such units to reap the high rental yield.
However, Minister of National Development Stated, and warned that the heartland is still an 'untested market' for shoebox units, and that the response may be unpredictable.
PLUS the government will not hesitate to intervene if situations gets out of hand.
SOURCE (http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/singapore-property-news/shoebox-units-an-untested-market-in-heartland-khaw/a/65803)
In my opinion, housing pricing issue is already highly volatile, and this is the time for the government to step in, before the situation gets overly complicated.
Step in and do what?
All their previous measures have had limited effect because they have been administering the wrong medicine and not tackling the root causes. The measures have targetted speculators and foreigners when deep down we know that they are not the main force driving the market.
Tackling the root causes will be a political landmine (wealth effect of HDB, and immigration policy) so they have tried to use alternative medicine without considering the ramifications.
Look at the current measures - their efforts to reduce the purchasing power of buyers (e.g. SD and LTV) have driven developers to create smaller and smaller MM units to improve affordability because developers know that there is still very strong demand from local heartlanders.
The current MM phenomena is just a reaction to the policies themselves and is a detrimental side effect of the wrong medicine being administered.
Simple lah, since KBW is worried that the HDB owners might forced to sell their HDB should they invest in MM, then let the HDB owners choose between HDB and MM, if they want to keep HDB, then cannot buy MM (only apply to new purchases for MM units).:D
rattydrama
16-05-12, 20:05
D14 Palmera East (just TOP) = 2.5k no problem.
D19 Kovan Grandeur (fetch rental as high as 2.6k)
D16 Eastwood Regency (very decent rents around 2.3k)
D14 Palmera East (just TOP)
D14 Cosmo (super high rental I think got 2.8k before)
D14 Centra Suites (just TOP)
D14 Centra Studios (just TOP)
D14 a lot others.... in Geylang - already TOP
D13 Suites @ Braddell (2.3k no problem)
D12 City Regency (2.5k not a problem)
D12 Airstream (just TOP)
D12 Suites @ Topaz (just TOP)
D05 Parc Imperial (need I say more???)
D05 The Foliage, Maylea (~2.6k)
and a lot more I haven't covered...
Simi UNTESTED!!!!!????
To what extent then considered TESTED?? Fetch 4k??
Or are those that I mentioned all in CCR??
http://spring.ura.gov.sg/lad/ore/login/map_ccr.pdf
Simple lah, since KBW is worried that the HDB owners might forced to sell their HDB should they invest in MM, then let the HDB owners choose between HDB and MM, if they want to keep HDB, then cannot buy MM (only apply to new purchases for MM units).:DBecause you current have both??? :cheers6:
When frn bot COSMO from the developer at $1,000psf, we were laughing at him. Ya, the market was untested then.
And now, market has proven that he is right.
When frn bot COSMO from the developer at $1,000psf, we were laughing at him. Ya, the market was untested then.
And now, market has proven that he is right.
I think the Parc Imperial first round owner already laughing one whole round Singapore island and back liao...
Because you current have both??? :cheers6:
No more HDB, sold it long ago.
thomastansb
16-05-12, 22:12
I don't know what KBW is thinking. Step in and say what? MM can only rent out at 1k a month?
When frn bot COSMO from the developer at $1,000psf, we were laughing at him. Ya, the market was untested then.
And now, market has proven that he is right.
I wonder whether did Hong Kong test their markets or not? Overall, I think it is a matter of used to it for smaller space. Everytime there is an increase in prices for certain things, everybody makes so much noise, after a while, people just accept the facts and get back to normal.
When frn bot COSMO from the developer at $1,000psf, we were laughing at him. Ya, the market was untested then.
And now, market has proven that he is right.
There are always going to have people laughing when someone buy on the high. Since we do not quite know when the bull run will end, the laughter will always continue. The important thing is knowing when to take profit before the tide subsides; or if we are buying for the long term, able hold on to the assets when they fall in values.
During past cycles, there are many cases of people laughing first and crying later when they missed the opportunity to take profit; and worst case, had to force sell their assets..
Timing the market is both an art and science. Some people are already taking profits while others see opportunity to sell even at higher price later.
That is why some people see the current situation as an opportunity while other see it as a threat. Some even try to find opportunity within the threat they see now.
I wonder whether did Hong Kong test their markets or not? Overall, I think it is a matter of used to it for smaller space. Everytime there is an increase in prices for certain things, everybody makes so much noise, after a while, people just accept the facts and get back to normal.
MM is like McDonald Meal. Price goes up and portion becomes smaller over time. People still buy and got used to it.
With all the europe crisis, China slowing down and scare of hard landing, Japan economy going nowhere, US still not recovering meaningfully and property price still so stable after 5 CMs, you can imagine when europe crisis is over and start to recover, US on confirmed recovery path pulling China and Japan up along the way, what will the property price in Singapore be? Some people are saying price will drop >50% or whatever will drop, what say you? I think, rather, price will go up >36% instead by 2018... :ashamed1:
MM is like McDonald Meal. Price goes up and portion becomes smaller over time. People still buy and got used to it.
blackapple
17-05-12, 00:25
The value of money is dropping.. I bet price of coffee will rise before of next chinese new year..
The value of money is dropping.. I bet price of coffee will rise before of next chinese new year..
At this moment given interest rates so low properties seem to be good hedge against inflation.
At this moment given interest rates so low properties seem to be good hedge against inflation.
Every additional year of 1% interest is another one year you get To pay up your property practically free
FilthyRich
17-05-12, 10:07
Some people are saying price will drop >50% or whatever will drop, what say you? I think, rather, price will go up >36% instead by 2018
What makes you think so?
with a 38 % increase in housing price, even HDBs might hot the million mark, which would make it virtually impossible for medium income to purchase houses.
HDB hit $1m mark? You refer to resale right? Won't that be great since all singapore citizens will benefit as they can buy new launch BTO and sell as resale? :D
38% obviously not for all lah, surely you can't expect property like Sky Habitat sold at $1700 psf or Bedok Residences sold at $1500 psf still go up 38% right? I am referring to currently under-valued ones (mostly resale properties available, new launch no chance :ashamed1:). :cheers5:
38% is realistic as that is about 6% per annum only! Imagine inflation has been >5% all these while! Furthermore, S$ sooner or later sure must come down ones, become cheaper for foreigners to buy S$! Some really undervalued ones most likely will go up even more than 38%! :(
What makes you think so?
with a 38 % increase in housing price, even HDBs might hot the million mark, which would make it virtually impossible for medium income to purchase houses.
With all the europe crisis, China slowing down and scare of hard landing, Japan economy going nowhere, US still not recovering meaningfully and property price still so stable after 5 CMs, you can imagine when europe crisis is over and start to recover, US on confirmed recovery path pulling China and Japan up along the way, what will the property price in Singapore be? Some people are saying price will drop >50% or whatever will drop, what say you? I think, rather, price will go up >36% instead by 2018... :ashamed1:
POWER sia!!! :scared-1:
Read from this blog ...
http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2012/05/shoeboxes-vs-hdb-1-and-2-room-flats.html?showComment=1336905925224#comment-c5114141892234845228
It seems some proponents of MM housing are actually owner-occupiers who are single and have decent earnings to buy a new HDB but cannot due to regulations. So a MM is the next best alternative for them and an upgrade since they didn't have their own room in their parents' HDB.
So probably alot of the buyers in OCR MMs are those people. Come to think of it, I actually had an ex-colleague who was like that. He bought a 1 bedder in a building near junction of bartley and serangoon. That was in 2004 and the building is not a condo. There was no facillities at all. Just a locked up gate in the building.
Read from this blog ...
http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2012/05/shoeboxes-vs-hdb-1-and-2-room-flats.html?showComment=1336905925224#comment-c5114141892234845228
It seems some proponents of MM housing are actually owner-occupiers who are single and have decent earnings to buy a new HDB but cannot due to regulations. So a MM is the next best alternative for them and an upgrade since they didn't have their own room in their parents' HDB.
So probably alot of the buyers in OCR MMs are those people. Come to think of it, I actually had an ex-colleague who was like that. He bought a 1 bedder in a building near junction of bartley and serangoon. That was in 2004 and the building is not a condo. There was no facillities at all. Just a locked up gate in the building.
Last time my previous condo, the unit beside mine is a MM unit which stay a couple in their 50s.
They told me that their children all staying on their own. So since is only two of them, they just need a MM unit.. easy & cheap to maintain.
Last time my previous condo, the unit beside mine is a MM unit which stay a couple in their 50s.
They told me that their children all staying on their own. So since is only two of them, they just need a MM unit.. easy & cheap to maintain.
sounds like a good idea for retirement next time. easy to maintain that is very true...buy now, rent out, then own stay during old age. good idea, but price already up a lot...:banghead:
I will ask my wife if she will consider...so when I pass on, she can live in a clean shoebox.
sounds like a good idea for retirement next time. easy to maintain that is very true...buy now, rent out, then own stay during old age. good idea, but price already up a lot...:banghead:
I am still surprised why so many took so long to realise the intricate value and myriad possibilities of MM. I am glad i dived in 5 yrs back full swing and have never looked back. Ah... The good old sub 1000psf days.
How many wives/girlfriends do you have?
I am still surprised why so many took so long to realise the intricate value and myriad possibilities of MM. I am glad i dived in 5 yrs back full swing and have never looked back. Ah... The good old sub 1000psf days.
How many wives/girlfriends do you have?
I am selfish. All the MM are for own enjoyment... One day stay one MM
I will ask my wife if she will consider...so when I pass on, she can live in a clean shoebox.
Looks like is a good idea to keep one MM for future use if necessary..
Easy to find tenant.. even can't find tenant also can leave it empty no problem cos cheap to maintain.
Many couple from HDB downsize from their 5-rm to 3-rm when their children all grown up & stay on their own..
So think MM will be quite useful when the time comes..
MMs do have their merits and serve the needs of certain groups of people but recent launches like Hillier and Natura@Hillview just pulled the last straw. MMs are now seen more for investment (driving property prices up) for a large group of people who clearly do not need to occupy them.
MM for own stay or future use, still can buy. MM for good yield and decent short term capital appreciation - sorry too late into the game...
Even HDB is building MM for old folks with 30 years leaSo FH/999LH MM value will grow ...
Even HDB is building MM for old folks with 30 years leaSo FH/999LH MM value will grow ...
How can you compare 1-2 BR flats for old folks with pte MMs? The HDB flats are meant to provide basic housing needs to this group of people. MMs are built to maximise profits. Value will grow? Let's see...
How can you compare 1-2 BR flats for old folks with pte MMs? The HDB flats are meant to provide basic housing needs to this group of people. MMs are built to maximise profits. Value will grow? Let's see...
MM are the most basic of pte apartments. Yes, MM value will continue to grow as HDB upgraders aspire affordable condo living and status or use them to keep pace with inflation.
MM are the most basic of pte apartments. Yes, MM value will continue to grow as HDB upgraders aspire affordable condo living and status or use them to keep pace with inflation.
yupz. cos that is all they can afford. (below 1m)
yupz. cos that is all they can afford. (below 1m)
so 4 yrs later. Expected to sell closed to 1 mil ?
if thars the case then good investment.
I think one thing that kbw and many property guru don't seem to realised is there might be a lot of retirees whom kids have move out and do not need their 4 room hdb flat anymore. So what they can do is simply buy a mm for about 500k and stay there while renting out their hdb for passive income.
This is not impossible for our older people. Most of them got their flats early on in the 70s or 80s when hdb prices were still low. A decent paying job plus prudent financial management plus some CPf could mean they might have that kind of money to afford a mm.
The one thing about OCR mm is that we didn't have them in the past. With many coming into the market, some of our older people might realised it is smarter to put their money into buying one mm for home stay. A one bedroom condo might seem small but if your kids already move out you don't need that 4room hdb flat so may as well rent.
So I will disagree with kbw on this matter, the hdb insist on building studio apartment only for the poor to stay, nothing wrong with that. There are however a good number of middle income elderly Singaporeans that while not super rich, do have some retirement money to actually buy a second home to syat while renting out their primary hdb that is under utilised since their kids have move out.
rattydrama
20-05-12, 09:54
it seeems that MM unit is always the first to run off the shelves, especially big project with condo status. MM is very sensitive to price. So long as the price is cheap, the sale is done. location is not much of an issue.
So I guest MM is here to stay for many years especially with aging population. Many are planning ahead now.
KBW saying HDB build MM for future demand.. yet wondering whether there will be a real demand for Pte MM units..
He is thinking that all old folks only can afford staying in HDB MM & not Pte MM?? :doh:
rattydrama
20-05-12, 11:51
KBW saying HDB build MM for future demand.. yet wondering whether there will be a real demand for Pte MM units..
He is thinking that all old folks only can afford staying in HDB MM & not Pte MM?? :doh:
HDB mm for the poor and pte mm for the rich.
Do you mean cheap = less than $600k?
it seeems that MM unit is always the first to run off the shelves, especially big project with condo status. MM is very sensitive to price. So long as the price is cheap, the sale is done. location is not much of an issue.
So I guest MM is here to stay for many years especially with aging population. Many are planning ahead now.
KBW saying HDB build MM for future demand.. yet wondering whether there will be a real demand for Pte MM units..
He is thinking that all old folks only can afford staying in HDB MM & not Pte MM?? :doh:
My point exactly, a good number of old folks, not all of course can afford to buy OCR mm to stay while renting out their hdb for passive retirement income.
Wrong to think that the demand for mm doesn't really exist.
Let's not forget that the majority of flats built in singapore is by hdb. Hdb do build 1 bedroom but there are not for rental but for the poor. That means that the private sector is single handily supplying the rental market for small apartments. In a country as open as Singapore, such unit will definitely be in demand.
Personally if anyone is afraid of an oversupply of units (I am not saying that won't be a problem), I think it shouldnt just be mm owners but normal sized unit owners as well. Many people seemed to think that the oversupply problem will just affect mm owners. I think both kind of owners should be worried. If mm owners actually end up staying in their unit and rent out their bigger flats, than wont it easily become an over supply of normal sized flats?
Always important to look at things more critically instead of taking such a simplistic view of things.
Oversupply will affect all sizes of condos. The question is how much can a MM unit in OCR ask for when neighbouring 4-room flat is renting at 2k/month.
My point exactly, a good number of old folks, not all of course can afford to buy OCR mm to stay while renting out their hdb for passive retirement income.
Wrong to think that the demand for mm doesn't really exist.
Let's not forget that the majority of flats built in singapore is by hdb. Hdb do build 1 bedroom but there are not for rental but for the poor. That means that the private sector is single handily supplying the rental market for small apartments. In a country as open as Singapore, such unit will definitely be in demand.
Personally if anyone is afraid of an oversupply of units (I am not saying that won't be a problem), I think it shouldnt just be mm owners but normal sized unit owners as well. Many people seemed to think that the oversupply problem will just affect mm owners. I think both kind of owners should be worried. If mm owners actually end up staying in their unit and rent out their bigger flats, than wont it easily become an over supply of normal sized flats?
Always important to look at things more critically instead of taking such a simplistic view of things.
Don't disagree with you on that but the problem you highlighted is more of an issue of over leveraging rather than a specific mm problem. The ruling to have 40percent down payment is precisely to reduce that problem
In fact if someone has 500k spare/retirement money, it would be safer for them to buy a mm with little or no loan rather than to buy a normal sized apartment with another 500k loan and not have to worry if they can't get enough rental to cover their installments. Of course they are mm mouse owners who have likely over leverage themselves just like there are normal sized apartment owners who have likewise done that as well. The problem is not exclusive.
Can even argue that normal condo might have problems getting 4k or more to cover installments if nearby 4room hdb asking 2k isn't it.
Don't disagree with you on that but the problem you highlighted is more of an issue of over leveraging rather than a specific mm problem. The ruling to have 40percent down payment is precisely to reduce that problem
In fact if someone has 500k spare/retirement money, it would be safer for them to buy a mm with little or no loan rather than to buy a normal sized apartment with another 500k loan and not have to worry if they can't get enough rental to cover their installments. Of course they are mm mouse owners who have likely over leverage themselves just like there are normal sized apartment owners who have likewise done that as well. The problem is not exclusive.
Can even argue that normal condo might have problems getting 4k or more to cover installments if nearby 4room hdb asking 2k isn't it.
Welcome critical thinking newbie. Do u own 2 properties already? Wanna join my contest? Keke
And since the word boy in your nick guess u r below 55 yo
Below 55, correct.
Boy, correct.
Don't own two property, correct.
Must own two property than can comment?
I dont see you agreeing or disagreeing with my views. You are welcome to critic it instead of trying to be sarcastic you know. Would you say it is better to buy mm but not over leverage?would love to hear the views of those seeing as you are trying to imp,y you have tons of knowledge :)
rattydrama
21-05-12, 12:55
Do you mean cheap = less than $600k? OCR? I dont think so. Your rental could be just 1k per month which translates to 1% rental yield. Better to put money on bond.
If in CCR, not an issue but good location is going for 1m. :D
OCR MM should be on consumption perspective so the quantum must be as low as possible.
Below 55, correct.
Boy, correct.
Don't own two property, correct.
Must own two property than can comment?
I dont see you agreeing or disagreeing with my views. You are welcome to critic it instead of trying to be sarcastic you know. Would you say it is better to buy mm but not over leverage?would love to hear the views of those seeing as you are trying to imp,y you have tons of knowledge :)
If you are more critical and less sensitive you might want to ask carbuncle what contest he is running, not only you would find that he was not being sarcastic but he was indeed hoping that you are a qualified candidate.
btw you are disqualified. but feel free to comment. but hope you would be less sensitive and more critical. :)
Thanks hiroaki san. Its nice of you...
Do u qualify btw? ;)
OCR? I dont think so. Your rental could be just 1k per month which translates to 1% rental yield. Better to put money on bond.
If in CCR, not an issue but good location is going for 1m. :D
OCR MM should be on consumption perspective so the quantum must be as low as possible.
well, have to consider the possibility of capital appreciation too (assuming the property would be held for long)
Thanks hiroaki san. Its nice of you...
Do u qualify btw? ;)
Almak paiseh I suppose you guys referring to the most eligible bachelor contest right. My bad.:doh:
Almak paiseh I suppose you guys referring to the most eligible bachelor contest right. My bad.:doh:
Ya la abaden....You wont survive in this forum for long if u too sensitive... People call me all sorts of names but like i give a fu*k
Thanks hiroaki san. Its nice of you...
Do u qualify btw? ;)
I am not qualified that's why I kept quiet quiet most of the time... :o
I am not qualified that's why I kept quiet quiet most of the time... :o
Aiya what a pity... Eyeing any shoebox projects recently? Or any regular?
I am in the market for a 500-700sqft property for investment. any recommendation?
I am in the market for a 500-700sqft property for investment. any recommendation?
How soon u need it
Whats ur budget ceiling
Capital gain potential or rental yield or both
1br or? >500 sf is not shoebox for 1br
I am in the market for a 500-700sqft property for investment. any recommendation?
The Scotts Tower / Scotts Square
yupz. cos that is all they can afford. (below 1m)
Hey, I ve been following this thread - but a bit too lately as I already purchased a shoebox unit 570sqft for $1274 psf :doh: Hoping to reap profits after 4 yrs (speculating things go as it seems). Me too was thinking of the demand rise from the buyers who would be looking for smaller space since no large family will be staying (either retired couples or young couples who intend to go sans marriage/child for sometime).
Ahhh u all think I screwed up? or got potential!!! The developers selling showing prospects of payalebar hub!!! (Sighhhhh)
Hey, I ve been following this thread - but a bit too lately as I already purchased a shoebox unit 570sqft for $1274 psf :doh: Hoping to reap profits after 4 yrs (speculating things go as it seems). Me too was thinking of the demand rise from the buyers who would be looking for smaller space since no large family will be staying (either retired couples or young couples who intend to go sans marriage/child for sometime).
Ahhh u all think I screwed up? or got potential!!! The developers selling showing prospects of payalebar hub!!! (Sighhhhh)
How high in psf do you reckon it can go for that location in 4 yrs? :cheers6:
How high in psf do you reckon it can go for that location in 4 yrs? :cheers6:
Good question to an amateur first-time investor :beats-me-man: am looking at 1600-1800 psf?
Another thing I missed out in the above post is that this 570sqft 'shoebox' is a 2bed/1bath unit.
rattydrama
22-05-12, 17:07
Hey, I ve been following this thread - but a bit too lately as I already purchased a shoebox unit 570sqft for $1274 psf :doh: Hoping to reap profits after 4 yrs (speculating things go as it seems). Me too was thinking of the demand rise from the buyers who would be looking for smaller space since no large family will be staying (either retired couples or young couples who intend to go sans marriage/child for sometime).
Ahhh u all think I screwed up? or got potential!!! The developers selling showing prospects of payalebar hub!!! (Sighhhhh)
Ness is in even numbers where all the happenings take place rite? FH is still alrite.
If for rental investment then should just buy MM at around 4xxsq ft cos your rental will not be different by alot.
For own stay will be a No No for me.
Ness is in even numbers where all the happenings take place rite? FH is still alrite.
If for rental investment then should just buy MM at around 4xxsq ft cos your rental will not be different by alot.
For own stay will be a No No for me.
(Sigh) So you think, it is still a good buy for resale in 3-4 years?
rattydrama
22-05-12, 17:18
(Sigh) So you think, it is still a good buy for resale in 3-4 years?
no worries lah, can just rent out and collect rental. If gov decides to revamp geylang you ho say liao!! ;) ;)
(Sigh) So you think, it is still a good buy for resale in 3-4 years?
In anyway, the prices can go either way. No point regretting and move on. Your initial outlay is not that high to begin. I also wish your target price will come true which bodes well for many other areas as well!
Good question to an amateur first-time investor :beats-me-man: am looking at 1600-1800 psf?
Another thing I missed out in the above post is that this 570sqft 'shoebox' is a 2bed/1bath unit.
Ok..... (cant think of anything else to say)
MM must play on quantum theory. For example a 2rm 5XX sqft Eon@Shenton is not really a MM because of its sheer quantum size of 1.2mil average, nevermind the rooms are MM, but its price is not MMish. To have the MM advantage in capital appreciation effect, you need to compare with an upstream property. For example pple still hoot alexis, MM FH recently sold at >=700k [initial price 420k] is justified because ONR 1rm LH condo already close to 1mil based on current price. An alexis MM can potential fetch 2.8k r even 3k where a normal 1rm ONR can fetch as much as 3.5k.
Similarly a 470k vibes@upp serangoon MM will have very good potential for cap. appreciation with the same logic
Having said that, that does not mean a 2rm MM will not have capital appreciation but might be slightly more challenging because your competition will be those condos in the 850-900k [assuming ur target sale price] range or more
Good question to an amateur first-time investor :beats-me-man: am looking at 1600-1800 psf?
Another thing I missed out in the above post is that this 570sqft 'shoebox' is a 2bed/1bath unit.
I think you need to throw away the old school theory of applying psf gain in shoebox unit imo because most buyers will be looking at the quantum size. You cannot compare psf of a MM condo in the same area of non-MM condo simply becoz prices of MM condos are "misconstrued" in the first place unless you find a gem where the psf of a MM beside another Non-MM development have the same psf, provided both are same tenure and location
I think you need to throw away the old school theory of applying psf gain in shoebox unit imo because most buyers will be looking at the quantum size. You cannot compare psf of a MM condo in the same area of non-MM condo simply becoz prices of MM condos are "misconstrued" in the first place unless you find a gem where the psf of a MM beside another Non-MM development have the same psf, provided both are same tenure and location
Totally Agree :-)
Ok..... (cant think of anything else to say)
:scared-5: Mate, nothing else to say means am I expecting too much of a profit from this investment ??? Ur thoughts on this investment (570sqft - 2bed unit Ness@Geylang)?????
In anyway, the prices can go either way. No point regretting and move on. Your initial outlay is not that high to begin. I also wish your target price will come true which bodes well for many other areas as well!
Thanks for your thoughts mate! :-)
(Sigh) So you think, it is still a good buy for resale in 3-4 years?
Jo, every project has its potential, you can never know what's going to happen in 2-3 yrs' time. Just look forward to your investment and enjoy the excitement :)
:scared-5: Mate, nothing else to say means am I expecting too much of a profit from this investment ??? Ur thoughts on this investment (570sqft - 2bed unit Ness@Geylang)?????
I really cant predict the future. But there is no govt plans to clean up Geylang as yet, so based on current situation, i cant comment further. And NESS is not that near to paya lebar hub development as well to enjoy the effect. So its a bit of a :beats-me-man:
I would suggest avoiding counting the chickens before they are hatched. You cant sell it during the 4yrs SSD anyway... So might as well wait it out.
Since sis evergreen say i have potential at poetry, i leave with one here..
Life throws us many a chance
Embrace it like your partner in dance
One can never completely be sure
Just be happy and look to the future
:scared-5: Mate, nothing else to say means am I expecting too much of a profit from this investment ??? Ur thoughts on this investment (570sqft - 2bed unit Ness@Geylang)?????
seriously how much do you expect to subsale it 4 yrs down the road?
IMHO, no offense intended. MMs in geylang need to hold at least 10-15 yrs.
Not forgetting ;
1) there is still quite a lot of big size units around.
2) take this realtime example http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/9508728/for-sale-skt-mansion
which condo in geylang can beat this? size + price + 3mins to MRT
3) the sports hub is too far for lorong 30s, your nearest is the paya comm hub but still - lots of condos are coming up at paya lebar area. Your rival condos are those near city plaza area, haig road. And if your rental is no good....so will your resale value.
Since sis evergreen say i have potential at poetry, i leave with one here..
Life throws us many a chance
Embrace it like your partner in dance
One can never completely be sure
Just be happy and look to the future
really good leh:D
really good leh:D
Thanks! I will practise more when got chance in other threads kekekeke :p :sleep: :scared-2:
Thanks! I will practise more when got chance in other threads kekekeke :p :sleep: :scared-2:
Later you will become poetryguru.
Later you will become poetryguru.
What to do... U already cheenapun guru......
Plenty things we never know
One day we may see it snow
But before us stands the now
Grab it, don't keep asking how
rattydrama
23-05-12, 10:45
Life throws us many a chance
Embrace it like your partner in dance
One can never completely be sure
Just be happy and look to the future
~Like~ ppty investors should be punching numbers yet we have quite a few "shi ren" here.
~Like~ ppty investors should be punching numbers yet we have quite a few "shi ren" here.
尸人? 市人? 湿人?
phantom_opera
23-05-12, 11:31
EASTWOOD REGENCY EASTWOOD ROAD Apartment 1 740,000 517 Strata 1,432psf Apr-12
D16 freehold ... very far from MRT ..Fragrance MM still can
EASTWOOD REGENCY EASTWOOD ROAD Apartment 1 590,000 506 Strata 1,166 Jul-10
profit > 100k in barely 2y :cool:
EASTWOOD REGENCY EASTWOOD ROAD Apartment 1 740,000 517 Strata 1,432psf Apr-12
D16 freehold ... very far from MRT/amenities ..Fragrance MM still can
EASTWOOD REGENCY EASTWOOD ROAD Apartment 1 590,000 506 Strata 1,166 Jul-10
profit > 100k in barely 2y :cool:
Have u join MM club yet? Club MooMoo not MoMo nor 妹妹 妈妈 慢慢来. 秘密 默默
phantom_opera
23-05-12, 12:16
Have u join MM club yet? Club MooMoo not MoMo nor 妹妹 妈妈 慢慢来. 秘密 默默
hey hey ... thinking of buying more b4 they up the ABSD
hey hey ... thinking of buying more b4 they up the ABSD
What u eyeing now tell me yell me....
甜@土耙丝
空气溪
森特拉甜
我的堤
悬崖
鹿迷尔
8木璃
？
phantom_opera
23-05-12, 13:17
What u eyeing now tell me yell me....
甜@土耙丝
空气溪
森特拉甜
我的堤
悬崖
鹿迷尔
8木璃
？
Developers should hire you to translate their condo name :spliff:
IMO, > 900k cannot be considered MM
What u eyeing now tell me yell me....
甜@土耙丝
空气溪
森特拉甜
我的堤
悬崖
鹿迷尔
8木璃
？
wahsay........sounds all like in chinatown leh:D
rattydrama
24-05-12, 10:30
尸人? 市人? 湿人? person who writes poems. Nice to write. I doubt today's education can produce someone like you...I mean from native singaporean.
person who writes poems. Nice to write. I doubt today's education can produce someone like you...I mean from native singaporean.
I know what you meant la. Disturb you only... Wakakaka. How you know i not FT or early immigrant from China? ;) Anyway i thought kids nowadays should be even more advanced in learning Chinese than us old timers? Granted i was from SAP school with Chinese school history la... Maybe thats why. Took CL1...
rattydrama
24-05-12, 14:38
I know what you meant la. Disturb you only... Wakakaka. How you know i not FT or early immigrant from China? ;) Anyway i thought kids nowadays should be even more advanced in learning Chinese than us old timers? Granted i was from SAP school with Chinese school history la... Maybe thats why. Took CL1...
sap school produce lots of gay?
sap school produce lots of gay?
Not in my school. Its co-ed school. Maybe i the only gay in the village, like in here... Wakakaka!!!! Many gays from ACS, St Pats, SCGS etc...ba coz of single sex.
thomastansb
24-05-12, 22:11
I agree the rental is unpredictable. People thought Clift can fetch 2.5k. Never did they imagine it can fetch 4.5k. Shoik...
An article states that shoebox units continue to grow from the current 2500 completed apartment to 9700 in 2015.
As of now, 80% of these unit are found in the Central Regions of Singapore, however in time to come a larger percentage would fall into the heartlands of Singapore.
More of the middle income class would than be tempted to invest in such units to reap the high rental yield.
However, Minister of National Development Stated, and warned that the heartland is still an 'untested market' for shoebox units, and that the response may be unpredictable.
PLUS the government will not hesitate to intervene if situations gets out of hand.
SOURCE (http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/singapore-property-news/shoebox-units-an-untested-market-in-heartland-khaw/a/65803)
In my opinion, housing pricing issue is already highly volatile, and this is the time for the government to step in, before the situation gets overly complicated.
Jonathan0503
25-05-12, 08:43
Not in my school. Its co-ed school. Maybe i the only gay in the village, like in here... Wakakaka!!!! Many gays from ACS, St Pats, SCGS etc...ba coz of single sex.
Which SAP school were you from?
phantom_opera
25-05-12, 09:10
What u eyeing now tell me yell me....
甜@土耙丝
空气溪
森特拉甜
我的堤
悬崖
鹿迷尔
8木璃
？
It sounds like cartoons from 宫崎骏（Miyazaki Hayao）
龙猫 ▪ 风之谷
▪ 千与千寻 ▪ ▪ 天空之城 ▪ 魔女宅急便
▪ 悬崖上的金鱼公主
:cheers5:
phantom_opera
25-05-12, 09:14
Nowadays garmen is always behind curve .. is it because of our new breed of scholars all play safe after the following incident?
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/1138/selamatap6.jpg
1. MND rushing to build BTOs after so many years of underbuilding
2. LTA rushing to increase reliability of MRT system and buy extra buses after so many years of complacency
3. NWC first time recommended $50 min salary increment, last time was 198X ??
4. MOE suddenly focus on character building ... but sorry you must still score in PSLE
5. PUB stops blaming weather causing flood
So it is easy to predict:
1. MAS will probably remove the peg to US Fed rate in 3-5y time and control its own interest rate
2. MND will go back to build ahead of demand instead of build to order after HDB 1 million becomes the norm
3. URA will ban MM units below 400sqft but not until 30% of all PC units are < 500sqft :scared-4:
4. ICA will stop taking in 30k immigrants per year but only in 2020 because suddenly nobody can squeeze into MRT train
phantom_opera
25-05-12, 09:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9dEOOSTARM&feature=related
With 30k immigrants per year ...very soon our SMRT needs ladies only carriage
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