View Full Version : New Cooling Measures
Been informed that there will be further cooling measures coming this week targeting at investors with multiple property purchase. heresay is 10% ABSD and 50% LTV.
phantom_opera
14-05-12, 16:16
Finally ... is it on Thursday again??
If it is true, expect panic selling by developers this week b4 Thursday
Finally ... is it on Thursday again??
If it is true, expect panic selling by developers this week b4 Thursday
hearsay is thursday as well. what up with this thursday thingy? after 5pm?
Isn't 10% ABSD the current measure? So what's new is the reduction of another 10% LTV from 60% to 50% for second property and beyond (if first still under mortgage) right?
Published May 14, 2012
Rising home prices still a concern outside Central region: MND
By
Angela Tan (http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/reporter/angela-tan)
Minister of National Development Khaw Boon Wan told parliament on Monday that although private housing prices have started to stabilise in the Central Region, they are still rising for mass market properties outside the Central Region.
Mr Khaw also cited another concern that there is an increasing number of shoe-box units being sold by developers in the suburbs even though their appeal to tenants remains untested. "We will continue to monitor these developments closely and will not hesitate to take action, if necessary, to ensure that the housing market remains stable and sustainable,'' Mr Khaw said.
phantom_opera
14-05-12, 16:34
SINGAPORE: Singapore property giant SC Global Developments has acquired about two million square feet of seafront land in Bali.
The site, atop a cliff overlooking the Indian Ocean, could potentially be developed into a villa resort and hotel.
The firm has also acquired Singapore-incorporated companies Lotusvale and Tannerson.
In all, the acquisitions are worth about US$32.5 million.
SC Global Developments' Board of Directors says the move is a viable investment enabling the firm to diversify into a new location and participate in Indonesia's rapidly developing market.
The acquisitions will be funded by internal resources of the company and are not expected to have any material impact on consolidated earnings and net tangible assets per share for the current financial year.
=> even SC Global thinks it is time to diversify, high end Bali seafront condo ... something like Nikko Bali Resort?? I want :p
后港提名日是星期四?可能是为重选打强心针?
后港提名日是星期三, 16 May.
Currently 10% for foreigners, SC & PR 3%. If 3% jump to 10% the ultimate Anti-Brake Scheme. kekeke
phantom_opera
14-05-12, 16:41
10% really killer, developers will not be able to absorb anymore. I believe it is probably tier-based and anti-MM (won't affect CAPL) i.e.
MM < 500sqft - 10%
2br 500-600sqft - 8%
1br 500-600sqft - 6%
Currently 10% for foreigners, SC & PR 3%. If 3% jump to 10% the ultimate Anti-Brake Scheme. kekeke
是这样吗?这里有钱人多的是咧!!区区一成小意思啦!
Been informed that there will be further cooling measures coming this week targeting at investors with multiple property purchase. heresay is 10% ABSD and 50% LTV.
this should have little impact on the mass market segment, since hdb-upgraders make up the bulk of the buyers (if what is reported in the media is true)
后港提名日是星期三, 16 May.
啊。。。谢谢你。。。
quick question, whenever MAS introduce cooling measures, do they use OTP date or exercise date as the cut off date?
There will be a heavy outflow of monies.....and little inflow...is that what the Govt wants?
quick question, whenever MAS introduce cooling measures, do they use OTP date or exercise date as the cut off date?
应该是前者,后者你无法控制。。。
There will be a heavy outflow of monies.....and little inflow...is that what the Govt wants?
nope, plus it's like using a blowtorch to hammer a nail. wrong tool for the problem.
I will place my bet in this place given the underground geological & terrorxxt activities.
SINGAPORE: Singapore property giant SC Global Developments has acquired about two million square feet of seafront land in Bali.
The site, atop a cliff overlooking the Indian Ocean, could potentially be developed into a villa resort and hotel.
The firm has also acquired Singapore-incorporated companies Lotusvale and Tannerson.
In all, the acquisitions are worth about US$32.5 million.
SC Global Developments' Board of Directors says the move is a viable investment enabling the firm to diversify into a new location and participate in Indonesia's rapidly developing market.
The acquisitions will be funded by internal resources of the company and are not expected to have any material impact on consolidated earnings and net tangible assets per share for the current financial year.
=> even SC Global thinks it is time to diversify, high end Bali seafront condo ... something like Nikko Bali Resort?? I want :p
There will be a heavy outflow of monies.....and little inflow...is that what the Govt wants?
With the bulk of the buying coming from locals, there is not much of an inflow from foreign buying anyway. If the government is concern about out outflow, the 10% of ABSD on foreign buying would not have been implemented in Dec 11.
Maybe you see something I didn't.
With the bulk of the buying coming from locals, there is not much of an inflow from foreign buying anyway. If the government is concern about out outflow, the 10% of ABSD on foreign buying would not have been implemented in Dec 11.
Maybe you see something I didn't.
perhaps there's something that isn't reported in the media. maybe the HDB-upgraders buying mass market projects are mostly FTs and PRs :eek:
A recent transaction of a landed promptly near place is sold to someone with a hub address. They are quite well off. They should really monitor these group of people. There are many in Watertown project too.
perhaps there's something that isn't reported in the media. maybe the HDB-upgraders buying mass market projects are mostly FTs and PRs :eek:
是这样吗?这里有钱人多的是咧!!区区一成小意思啦!
40% Dp + 10% ABS + 3% stamp is no joke wor. Sup sup shui for some. heh
I understand tt e govt has prepared a list of plots to b sold this year. Such a CM will kill off developers' interest, price, land revenue n supply of new units. I doubt it will b announced so soon. If there really is one, it might b a small one.
I understand tt e govt has prepared a list of plots to b sold this year. Such a CM will kill off developers' interest, price, land revenue n supply of new units. I doubt it will b announced so soon. If there really is one, it might b a small one.
if you have intention to buy 3rd or more property, better be quick..
The same rumour was spread 1-2 months back.
So, we just wait until Thurs lor...
CMs weed out weak players in the market, help bring the price down a bit.
Then the rest who can afford get to buy at lower price!
WooHoo!
DKSG
The same rumour was spread 1-2 months back.
So, we just wait until Thurs lor...
CMs weed out weak players in the market, help bring the price down a bit.
Then the rest who can afford get to buy at lower price!
WooHoo!
DKSG
CM is a double edges sword as it will also discourage those holding 3 or more properties from selling because they will need to pay more ABSD if they wish to buy back later.
Add another year to CM affect the opportunity cost further.
The same rumour was spread 1-2 months back.
So, we just wait until Thurs lor...
CMs weed out weak players in the market, help bring the price down a bit.
Then the rest who can afford get to buy at lower price!
WooHoo!
DKSG
Properties are meant to be kept & not for sale. :)
CM is a double edges sword as it will also discourage those holding 3 or more properties from selling because they will need to pay more ABSD if they wish to buy back later.
if you have intention to buy 3rd or more property, better be quick..
Better b slow ;)
CM is a tricky business.
Recap CMs.
When the last CM came out, all Hell broke loose, and the "ghost" analysts predict 20%, 30% drop. All those waiting to buy cheer like some college cheerleaders complete with pom pom... fast forward 3 months later, prices DID NOT correct (I deem those 0.x% as non correction), people continue to pour money into properties.
The second CM came out requiring people to pay 40% downpayment for second and above properties, same thing happened. Heaven and Earth screamed and predicted end of property price increase.
So, now when a CM come out, we really dont know what to do ? Patiently await the 30% drop ? or quickly grab something if u can find a 5% discount ?
Tough times. Tough decisions.
What we can say is (for the benefit of those reading an Office Boy's postings), NEVER sell at discount IMMEDIATELY after a CM. Last 5 CMs already taught you not to do that.
Good Luck!
CM = Constructive Manipulation
But frankly, I do have many friends who got "weeded" out of the market after the 40% downpayment CM.
They are the ones that shouted "TMD-WBD"
The more u hear people shout like that (as long as you are not one of them), the more chances u know u have in picking up something good).
I pick up the last 2 properties right after CMs (not same CM hor-I dont buy things in quick sucession - high risk!) ... u can all guess how are these properties doing now ... muahahahaa!
DKSG
又来ABSD?真他妈的鸡蛋太过分了!
Ar Bor Still Dan? Mai tu liao
they should aim MMs. Other than ECs, most of the new private launches are MMs. They are distorting the market.
they should aim MMs. Other than ECs, most of the new private launches are MMs. They are distorting the market.
yes but with less MMs launched then MMs may become more highly sought after and better rental yield :D
KBW says market headed for a soft landing.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/1201169/1/.html
they should aim MMs. Other than ECs, most of the new private launches are MMs. They are distorting the market.
Ban all future MM and all MM not built yet!!!!!!!!!
Huat ah!!!!!
if you have intention to buy 3rd or more property, better be quick..
That's what I am thinking. Maybe the reason why irregardless of high $psf, there are still many buyers going for MM units is because they are afraid that govt might come up with some more cm that will prevent them from owning a pc. With the price right now, most of the average income earners can only afford MM unit <$1m, so why want to stop them for fulfilling their dreams. Not everybody buy MM to invest, there are people who buy it for self-stay too.
He is a bit clueless abt decentralising n lower housing budget of expats over e next few years.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1201174/1/.html
SINGAPORE: Minister for National Development Khaw Boon Wan on Monday said he would not hesitate to intervene should there be clear evidence of unsustainable investor demand for shoe-box apartments.
He added that the Ministry of National Development (MND) was watching the situation closely.
However, Mr Khaw cautioned that it would be hard for him to intervene at present as the market for shoe-box units in the heartlands was "untested", and he did not want to think he knew "better than developers or investors".
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1201174/1/.html
SINGAPORE: Minister for National Development Khaw Boon Wan on Monday said he would not hesitate to intervene should there be clear evidence of unsustainable investor demand for shoe-box apartments.
He added that the Ministry of National Development (MND) was watching the situation closely.
However, Mr Khaw cautioned that it would be hard for him to intervene at present as the market for shoe-box units in the heartlands was "untested", and he did not want to think he knew "better than developers or investors".
Ok based on this sentence. Any cm he come out with I think is as good as not working. He probably come out with something that slow sales and increases sales thereafter with lower psf. M3 and low interest rate theory?
rattydrama
14-05-12, 19:21
maybe the new rule should say only single and childless couple can buy MM units. Then I will say this will bring CM sales to a halt. haha
Usually the rules will say with immediate effect right?
So existing MM owners here will huat x3 !!
:p
what untested?? wats the objective and concern?:doh:
Mr Khaw replied: "The member's concern about potential oversupply if we are not careful is something I think we all ought to be mindful of because cycles sometimes get a little bit too exuberant and then when they crash, they can create other kinds of problems. >> Hmm
"There are still concerns in our housing market. For example, although private housing prices have started to stabilize in the Central Region, they are still rising for mass market properties outside the Central Region. We are also seeing an increasing number of shoe-box units being sold by developers in the suburbs, where their appeal to tenants remains untested. We will continue to monitor these developments closely and will not hesitate to take action, if necessary, to ensure that the housing market remains stable and sustainable." - Khaw Boon Wan, 14 May 2012
http://app.mnd.gov.sg/Newsroom/NewsPage.aspx?ID=3508&category=Parliamentary%20Q%20&%20A&year=2012&RA1=&RA2=&RA3=
This is something I don't understand..
In this forum...
When counter-measure going to come out, people say buy more before CM.
When counter-measure is in place already, people say buy more because prices never drop even with CM.
Then.. people say ..prices will cheong even more when CMs get removed one by one...So buy more..
Walau.. so means only got 1 scenario when prices will go down , i.e, CRISIS comes. If not, CM or not, prices always cheong up? So anytime is a good time to buy..
rattydrama
14-05-12, 19:51
Mr Khaw replied: "The member's concern about potential oversupply if we are not careful is something I think we all ought to be mindful of because cycles sometimes get a little bit too exuberant and then when they crash, they can create other kinds of problems. >> Hmm
just allow the single and childless couple if really need to going forward, pple just need a small place and enjoy condo lifestyle. It make sense for land scare singapore.
MM units (perhaps should be in the region of 4xxsqft with good layout) is the product of recent years, there is no doubt a strong demand. With aging population, the demand continues.
EC dont have MM and HDB only have limited studio so only way is to get from private developer.
Woodhaven MM sold out quick and fast and this project is not near MRT. I guess investor is not keen to park their $ there, so suspect strong demand could be for self stay.
rattydrama
14-05-12, 19:53
This is something I don't understand..
In this forum...
When counter-measure going to come out, people say buy more before CM.
When counter-measure is in place already, people say buy more because prices never drop even with CM.
Then.. people say ..prices will cheong even more when CMs get removed one by one...So buy more..
Walau.. so means only got 1 scenario when prices will go down , i.e, CRISIS comes. If not, CM or not, prices always cheong up? So anytime is a good time to buy..
from what I observe, it seems true since the day gov introudce cm in Aug 2010. So many people parking $ in Singapore, reported or unreported. the moment price drop, someone else with bring it up again. :p
However, Mr Khaw cautioned that ... the market for shoe-box units in the heartlands was "untested"
Huh did KBW read this forum ? MMs in OCR at best is an untested market, I said this last year ;)
You guys better be careful posting what you wish for CMs. He may actually do it u know :)
They should not have allow <600 sqft unit in 1st place! Just like never built HDB <600 sqft! When place is Too small, couple will not going to have child!
just allow the single and childless couple if really need to going forward, pple just need a small place and enjoy condo lifestyle. It make sense for land scare singapore.
MM units (perhaps should be in the region of 4xxsqft with good layout) is the product of recent years, there is no doubt a strong demand. With aging population, the demand continues.
EC dont have MM and HDB only have limited studio so only way is to get from private developer.
Woodhaven MM sold out quick and fast and this project is not near MRT. I guess investor is not keen to park their $ there, so suspect strong demand could be for self stay.
rattydrama
14-05-12, 20:27
Huh did KBW read this forum ? MMs in OCR at best is an untested market, I said this last year ;)
You guys better be careful posting what you wish for CMs. He may actually do it u know :)
our views only represent less than 1% of the invesor population.:p
rattydrama
14-05-12, 20:29
They should not have allow <600 sqft unit in 1st place! Just like never built HDB <600 sqft! When place is Too small, couple will not going to have child!
may not be true, childless sometimes is not by choice. well, they can always move to a bigger place when they have the 1st kid.
I bot a one bedroom unit with about 650sq ft, to prepare for old age, when my spouse is not around and children not living with me.
The size is just right
Huh did KBW read this forum ? MMs in OCR at best is an untested market, I said this last year ;)
You guys better be careful posting what you wish for CMs. He may actually do it u know :)
that's good, i have been saying since day one there should be restriction on PRs buying HDBs. He never listen.
heresay is 10% ABSD and 50% LTV.
Result? MM gets smaller to stay affordable....:banghead:
Did anyone do a study? Every time LTV goes up by 10%, the MM sizes goes down by 10%. Cash quantum stays the same:beats-me-man:
[quote=rattydrama]just allow the single and childless couple if really need to going forward, pple just need a small place and enjoy condo lifestyle. It make sense for land scare singapore.
I don't think it is appropriate leh. What happens if the single bought the MM, then 1 year later decides to marry or if the childless couple bought the MM, then after shifting in, realise that she is pregnant, how?
后港提名日是星期四?可能是为重选打强心针?In that case, if govt wants to help his own course, should remove CM and let PC market sky rocket so everybody happy, of course except those who are not so rich but thinking of buying PC, which is not a large group though! So win all the votes already then intro CM... :p
U ask how KBW not shit in the pants, if i see stats like this
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y8uUy5uIEAw/T5Fg2Y9we4I/AAAAAAAAAxc/StNX-17Qph8/s320/ShoeBoxNos.jpg
I also shit in the pants.. CCR at least still ok, the increase quite consistent plus is pure rental heaven.
See suburbs from 400 to almost on par with CCR in 2015, and city fringe almost 2x ccr, his shit I think already spew out and stain the underwear alreadY!!! :scared-4: :scared-4:
U ask how KBW not shit in the pants, if i see stats like this
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y8uUy5uIEAw/T5Fg2Y9we4I/AAAAAAAAAxc/StNX-17Qph8/s320/ShoeBoxNos.jpg
I also shit in the pants.. CCR at least still ok, the increase quite consistent plus is pure rental heaven.
See suburbs from 400 to almost on par with CCR in 2015, and city fringe almost 2x ccr, his shit I think already spew out and stain the underwear alreadY!!! :scared-4: :scared-4:
Don't forget the 25 to 30k foreigners. Worst case is to allow new citizens to hold 2 passports. When (not if) this happens any surpluses will be easily absorbed.
When prices shoots all the way up up up, investors started looking at MM coz they are the most affordable. Now KBW contemplating removing that last avenue of property investment option for the middle income investors so will it control prices effectively for at least the near future? :scared-5: Later introduce unexpected moves again!!!
phantom_opera
14-05-12, 21:04
We are following mainland Chinese footsteps ... been there done that
What we learn from China: property prices never go down until they ban outright buying of 2nd property
When you impose higher and higher LTV and ABSD, it simply means either the size of the unit goes smaller and smaller or the buyer profile is richer and richer or forced sell of HDB b4 buying PC
Would the unthinkable ever happen i.e. cannot own 2 or more properties anymore (excluding existing owners) :scared-1:
Jan 2011:
China has implemented more property cooling measures, lifting the minimum down payment for second home loans to 60 percent from the current 50 percent, in a move to avert the risk of a property bubble.
“China will continue to effectively curb investment and speculative purchases of houses to consolidate and expand on previous measures,” according to a statement on the State Council's website.
central government also set mortgage rates for second-home purchases at no less than 110 percent of the national benchmark rates, while those selling homes within five years of acquisition will be charged full transaction taxes.
rattydrama
14-05-12, 21:04
[quote=rattydrama]just allow the single and childless couple if really need to going forward, pple just need a small place and enjoy condo lifestyle. It make sense for land scare singapore.
I don't think it is appropriate leh. What happens if the single bought the MM, then 1 year later decides to marry or if the childless couple bought the MM, then after shifting in, realise that she is pregnant, how?
Should still be okay. the rule say at the point of purchase. :p No many of us fency MM units anyway.
rattydrama
14-05-12, 21:06
I bot a one bedroom unit with about 650sq ft, to prepare for old age, when my spouse is not around and children not living with me.
The size is just right
can share which district? I am actually putting this as an option now.
When prices shoots all the way up up up, investors started looking at MM coz they are the most affordable. Now KBW contemplating removing that last avenue of property investment option for the middle income investors so will it control prices effectively for at least the near future? :scared-5: Later introduce unexpected moves again!!!
Yah..and then they expect high, high GLS prices. Like that also can??? Anyway don't under-estimate the savvy of developers. I am sure they can think of ways to re-start. If not, how did so many cm come about?
We are following mainland Chinese footsteps ... been there done that
What we learn from China: property prices never go down until they ban outright buying of 2nd property
When you impose higher and higher LTV and ABSD, it simply means either the size of the unit goes smaller and smaller or the buyer profile is richer and richer or forced sell of HDB b4 buying PC
Would the unthinkable ever happen i.e. cannot own 2 or more properties anymore (excluding existing owners) :scared-1:Or HDB owners who want to buy PC must go through balloting. Every year only allow 20k upgrading. Then if this selected few wants to keep HDB and buy PC, then must pay additional BSD for the PC. Lol! :spliff:
rattydrama
14-05-12, 21:14
with a good projection of 6m population by gov, how to stop investor from buying? :p
phantom_opera
14-05-12, 21:14
Reported in March 2011 China:
First-time buyers must now make a minimum down-payment of 30% on home purchases.
For young couples, families often pool their cash to help them on to the property ladder.
Those buying a second property must find a 60% deposit and pay higher interest charges. Bank loans for a third property are banned.
If the measures are too harsh, it would create a stock market bubble. Either way also jia lat.
Wild Falcon
14-05-12, 21:24
You guys news chun bo? More cooling measure ar? 10% ABSD for Singaporeans as well? If really true, my fren heng ar. She just signed OTP.
Actually no need cooling measure lah. Increase interest rate can liao.
Also, I don't think should apply cooling measure to MM. After all, it was reported that MM still fetches the best rental yields, which means there is real demand from tenants. Nowadays a lot of these "FTs" are no longer the high-budget ones who bring an entourage of wives and children. Many are young grads who come on their own and just need a small comfy home. Imagine those 5xxk MM in East Coast can rent out for $2k per month. Rental yield more than 5%. No wonder people invest right? The demand for MM is partly fueled by PAP's FT import policy.
Wild Falcon
14-05-12, 21:36
Whatever cooling measure. Sure hope its NOT 10% ABSD for Singaporean as well. That would be the WORST. Imagine investing in a $1 million property and need to pay $100k to our government down the drain. I don't mind if increase LTV since u just invest a larger amount in cash. ABSD is throwing money into the drain.
MM has alr been baned in Joo Chiat, Kovan and TK
I wrote to URA, asking them why dun ban MM at Geylang, there is a high concentration of MM and they said cannot,
In the case of Geylang, the area comprises of a mix of various uses with a very different character as compared to that of a typical low-density residential estate. In addition, the developments in Geylang are generally party-wall developments or shophouses, and are already guided by the Geylang Urban Design Guidelines (GUDG). However, we understand your concerns and will continue to monitor the situation for these areas as well. If the situation warrants it, we will fine-tune the guidelines for specific localised areas.
Whatever cooling measure. Sure hope its NOT 10% ABSD for Singaporean as well. That would be the WORST. Imagine investing in a $1 million property and need to pay $100k to our government down the drain. I don't mind if increase LTV since u just invest a larger amount in cash. ABSD is throwing money into the drain.
No choice, now ppl too rich so LTV increase is futile. The only way to curb price increase is to kill off the main market which I think 90% are Singaporeans. ABSD for Singaporean very possible!
Whatever cooling measure. Sure hope its NOT 10% ABSD for Singaporean as well. That would be the WORST. Imagine investing in a $1 million property and need to pay $100k to our government down the drain. I don't mind if increase LTV since u just invest a larger amount in cash. ABSD is throwing money into the drain.
Based on what you say, the A-ABSD would probably do the trick to dampen the market. But it would be interesting to see if Govt actually implements AABSD coz if S'poreans pay 10% ABSD, foreigners should pay 30%? :scared-4:
Wild Falcon
14-05-12, 21:50
MMs are not banned in Joo Chiat, Kovan and TK. The thought the rule is more to ensure developments are of a minimum plot size of 1000sqm but does not stipulate the size of each unit.
MM has alr been baned in Joo Chiat, Kovan and TK
I wrote to URA, asking them why dun ban MM at Geylang, there is a high concentration of MM and they said cannot,
In the case of Geylang, the area comprises of a mix of various uses with a very different character as compared to that of a typical low-density residential estate. In addition, the developments in Geylang are generally party-wall developments or shophouses, and are already guided by the Geylang Urban Design Guidelines (GUDG). However, we understand your concerns and will continue to monitor the situation for these areas as well. If the situation warrants it, we will fine-tune the guidelines for specific localised areas.
phantom_opera
14-05-12, 21:55
Can they afford to charge SC 10% ABSD for 2nd property? Developer stocks will crash 10% overnight if that is the case.
Ruling to ban owning 3rd property more likely or must sell HDB in 6months after TOP of PC :scared-5:
MMs are not banned in Joo Chiat, Kovan and TK. The thought the rule is more to ensure developments are of a minimum plot size of 1000sqm but does not stipulate the size of each unit.
No, min ave unit size is 100 sqm in these areas
pl refer
MEASURES TO IMPROVE THE LIVING ENVIRONMENT FOR NON-LANDED RESIDENTIAL ESTATES
http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dc11-14.htm
para 16,17
Huh did KBW read this forum ? MMs in OCR at best is an untested market, I said this last year ;)
You guys better be careful posting what you wish for CMs. He may actually do it u know :)
U mean someone plagiarised u?
MMs are not banned in Joo Chiat, Kovan and TK. The thought the rule is more to ensure developments are of a minimum plot size of 1000sqm but does not stipulate the size of each unit.
wrong, the 1000sqm rule applies to all developments in SG. TK, Kovan, Joo Chiat, Eunos and kembangan areas have a min size limit to each unit.
This is something I don't understand..
In this forum...
When counter-measure going to come out, people say buy more before CM.
When counter-measure is in place already, people say buy more because prices never drop even with CM.
Then.. people say ..prices will cheong even more when CMs get removed one by one...So buy more..
Walau.. so means only got 1 scenario when prices will go down , i.e, CRISIS comes. If not, CM or not, prices always cheong up? So anytime is a good time to buy..
There are broadly 3 group of people participating in this forum.
1. People with vested interest in property prices going up (eg property agent, property consultant, property developer, highly geared investor on property, investor who purchased at recent high, home owner with no burden of next generation)
2. People with vested interest in price going down (eg people buying their first homes, people who sold earlier and waiting to buy, people staying in rented housing, investor waiting to buy more, home owner with burden of next generation)
3. People with little or no vested interest (people not affected by price up or down, objective people, home owner with no vested interest, people keen to share knowledge and experience)
Obviously, most of the people who participated in this belong to Group 1 with a fairly sizable group belonging to Group 2. Hope you understand now.
phantom_opera
14-05-12, 22:24
Off topic.. no one here can fight this lady, she received $14m last year but this year she retires
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRynPdKX1EriG83VIEjDa8aYcLDbZmjP-JJ6D4vpTuGCmxpeL_ObA
A thread with such provocative title sure attracts attention one lah. Just like that basic thread.
Btw dtrax brother, I just watched TV, KBW said something like 9500 mms in 3 yrs time! And he confirmed majority buyers are sporeans with HDB addresses.
phantom_opera
14-05-12, 22:29
Hmmm 10y T drops below 1.8% ... :scared-4:
CBOE Interest Rate 10-Year T-No (^TNX) -Chicago Options
1.77 0.07(3.75%) 10:11AM EDT
Watched KBW on the news also, no hint that CM will come anytime soon, probably KBW will stay sidelines as stock market is in bad shape now
There are broadly 3 group of people participating in this forum.
1. People with vested interest in property prices going up (eg property agent, property consultant, property developer, highly geared investor on property, investor who purchased at recent high, home owner with no burden of next generation)
2. People with vested interest in price going down (eg people buying their first homes, people who sold earlier and waiting to buy, people staying in rented housing, investor waiting to buy more, home owner with burden of next generation)
3. People with little or no vested interest (people not affected by price up or down, objective people, home owner with no vested interest, people keen to share knowledge and experience)
Obviously, most of the people who participated in this belong to Group 1 with a fairly sizable group belonging to Group 2. Hope you understand now.
i wonder KBW and his colleagues belong to which category. :confused:
A thread with such provocative title sure attracts attention one lah. Just like that basic thread.
Btw dtrax brother, I just watched TV, KBW said something like 9500 mms in 3 yrs time! And he confirmed majority buyers are sporeans with HDB addresses.
From his expression and body language (*shrug*) he is just flagging out the danger... And indirectly warning hdb owners better not try to be funny and buy more MM (indicating next measure might be if hdb owner buy MM will be forced to sell hdb... Dont think will be any CM anytime soon.
Is no JOKE.. I last just ran the URA caveat check after the KBW shit in the pants statement and found out that the number of NEW SALES sold in LAST 2YRS for units UP TO 65SQM or 700SQFT is an astonishing 9366 units SOLD
From his expression and body language (*shrug*) he is just flagging out the danger... And indirectly warning hdb owners better not try to be funny and buy more MM (indicating next measure might be if hdb owner buy MM will be forced to sell hdb... Dont think will be any CM anytime soon.
From his statement, I don't think a cm is imminent. How do you implement any cm on something (mm) that in his own words is "untested".
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7244/7196370474_d654d152c4.jpg
Central Region comprises the following 22 Planning Areas : Downtown Core, Orchard, Marina East, Marina South, Museum, Newton, Outram, River Valley, Rochor, Singapore River, Straits View, Bishan, Bukit Merah, Bukit Timah, Geylang, Kallang, Marine Parade, Novena, Queenstown, Southern Islands, Tanglin and Toa Payoh.
Allthepies
14-05-12, 22:53
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7244/7196370474_d654d152c4.jpg
Central Region comprises the following 22 Planning Areas : Downtown Core, Orchard, Marina East, Marina South, Museum, Newton, Outram, River Valley, Rochor, Singapore River, Straits View, Bishan, Bukit Merah, Bukit Timah, Geylang, Kallang, Marine Parade, Novena, Queenstown, Southern Islands, Tanglin and Toa Payoh.
Best on ur data, west side has the greatest rental potential, least number of MM but most concentration of jobs outside CBD.
Best on ur data, west side has the greatest rental potential, least number of MM but most concentration of jobs outside CBD.
Got many definitions apparently so just to clarify alittle:
Central Region:
Comprises the following 22 Planning Areas : Downtown Core, Orchard, Marina East, Marina South, Museum, Newton, Outram, River Valley, Rochor, Singapore River, Straits View, Bishan, Bukit Merah, Bukit Timah, Geylang, Kallang, Marine Parade, Novena, Queenstown, Southern Islands, Tanglin and Toa Payoh.
City Centre:
http://www.ura.gov.sg/waterfront/images/Appendix1_map.jpg
CCR:
D1,D2,D9,D10,D11
Conclusion? Do your own homework, which location is EXACTLY oversupply of MMmmmm.
From his expression and body language (*shrug*) he is just flagging out the danger... And indirectly warning hdb owners better not try to be funny and buy more MM (indicating next measure might be if hdb owner buy MM will be forced to sell hdb... Dont think will be any CM anytime soon.
I tend to agree with u... But let's see what happens this week.
Property_Owner
14-05-12, 23:28
Had alr warned you guys.
From his statement, I don't think a cm is imminent. How do you implement any cm on something (mm) that in his own words is "untested".
And he did state for the record that he dont wanna act expert and second guess the developers.... I read that as a white flag to developers who had recently made noise at being side stepped
And he did state for the record that he dont wanna act expert and second guess the developers.... I read that as a white flag to developers who had recently made noise at being side stepped
He's trying hard to please everybody but at the same time since mm in OCR is "untested", he's also trying to find a loop hole for himself, ie; if anything goes wrong, don't blame me 'coz I also don't know...
quick questions,
1) Assuming you sign the OTP and paid the 5% deposit for your 3rd property before MAS announce the reduction of LTV to 50%, will you still be able to loan up to 60%?
2) Assuming you took a 60% loan on your 3rd property, after the announcement, will you will be able to enjoy 60% LTV when you refinance your mortgage.
The speculated 50% LTV would not solve any problems in itself because developers will build even smaller units so that the quantum remains manageable. For an LTV measure to be effective, it should be accompanied by measures to control the proliferation of MMs.
if you have intention to buy 3rd or more property, better be quick..
Why buy if price will drop? If this announce?
This is something I don't understand..
In this forum...
When counter-measure going to come out, people say buy more before CM.
When counter-measure is in place already, people say buy more because prices never drop even with CM.
Then.. people say ..prices will cheong even more when CMs get removed one by one...So buy more..
Walau.. so means only got 1 scenario when prices will go down , i.e, CRISIS comes. If not, CM or not, prices always cheong up? So anytime is a good time to buy..
depends who thread u read. Read Mr B. thread rain, sun or flood also sell.
Why buy if price will drop? If this announce?
From this forum you can tell who are the bulls and bears lah. If mr. B everything happening even the slightest distant issues he will be forcasting property collapse. But many other bulls will tell you buy when it's going to drop, don't make sense. Don't be surprise there are many agents here causing a bullish frenzy. So who do you take side with is really up to you. I'm looking at it from an investor's point of view so I can be honest and tell you this.
:cheers1:
From this forum you can tell who are the bulls and bears lah. If mr. B everything happening even the slightest distant issues he will be forcasting property collapse. But many other bulls will tell you buy when it's going to drop, don't make sense. Don't be surprise there are many agents here causing a bullish frenzy. So who do you take side with is really up to you. I'm looking at it from an investor's point of view so I can be honest and tell you this.
:cheers1:
Yes.. the forum 60% are for entertainment ;)
quick questions,
1) Assuming you sign the OTP and paid the 5% deposit for your 3rd property before MAS announce the reduction of LTV to 50%, will you still be able to loan up to 60%?
2) Assuming you took a 60% loan on your 3rd property, after the announcement, will you will be able to enjoy 60% LTV when you refinance your mortgage.
So far, the CM have not been applied retrospectively. i.e. They are effectvie from date of announcement onwards. So, if OTP issue before new rules announced, should be safe.
maybe a good start would be to ban all MPs from purchasing MM units? :D
So far, the CM have not been applied retrospectively. i.e. They are effectvie from date of announcement onwards. So, if OTP issue before new rules announced, should be safe.
what about when you repackage or refinance your property which you bought before the CM? Will the new rule kick in when you refinance your property?
CM is a tricky business.
Recap CMs.
When the last CM came out, all Hell broke loose, and the "ghost" analysts predict 20%, 30% drop. All those waiting to buy cheer like some college cheerleaders complete with pom pom... fast forward 3 months later, prices DID NOT correct (I deem those 0.x% as non correction), people continue to pour money into properties.
The second CM came out requiring people to pay 40% downpayment for second and above properties, same thing happened. Heaven and Earth screamed and predicted end of property price increase.
So, now when a CM come out, we really dont know what to do ? Patiently await the 30% drop ? or quickly grab something if u can find a 5% discount ?
Tough times. Tough decisions.
What we can say is (for the benefit of those reading an Office Boy's postings), NEVER sell at discount IMMEDIATELY after a CM. Last 5 CMs already taught you not to do that.
Good Luck!
CM = Constructive Manipulationthis time, it maybe different. Let me teach u something. Haven't u heard before, past performance should not be use to judge future performance!
From his expression and body language (*shrug*) he is just flagging out the danger... And indirectly warning hdb owners better not try to be funny and buy more MM (indicating next measure might be if hdb owner buy MM will be forced to sell hdb... Dont think will be any CM anytime soon.
Is it that he is afraid HDB prices will drop if HDB owners are forced to throw out their HDB flats. Those with private ppty are not allowed to buy HDB even resale HDB but those with HDB are allowed to buy private ppty, why? What is the logic behind?
Only external macroecon factors can crash this market. Cm as it name implies, will cool the market.
If the plan is to cool the mm, then it is a targeted approach but even then, I think the govt can do better ie; impose conditions on developers that no more than x% of units can be mm. But if the plan is to cool the market overall, then shouldn't the govt bear some blame as they are the ones who flooded the market with GLS and then come back and ask why the buying frenzy...Are they expecting developers to bid high for the land but no buyers?
Shoeboxsupporter
15-05-12, 09:03
Published May 14, 2012
Rising home prices still a concern outside Central region: MND
By
Angela Tan (http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/reporter/angela-tan)
Minister of National Development Khaw Boon Wan told parliament on Monday that although private housing prices have started to stabilise in the Central Region, they are still rising for mass market properties outside the Central Region.
Mr Khaw also cited another concern that there is an increasing number of shoe-box units being sold by developers in the suburbs even though their appeal to tenants remains untested. "We will continue to monitor these developments closely and will not hesitate to take action, if necessary, to ensure that the housing market remains stable and sustainable,'' Mr Khaw said.
What are the possible actions will be taken ?
1. Not approve shoebox to be build by developer
Then it will curb the future supply of shoebox and benefit existing shoebox owners.
2. Increase stamp duty for shoebox buyer
Again, future developer will not lanch shoebox. Then it will benefit exising shoebox onwers.
Any action to clamp down on shoebox will benefit existing shoebox owner :D :D :D
The atmosphere in recent times seem to be addressing HDB owners' purchase of PC and more acutely MM units because of their affordability. He may just ban HDB owners from buying MM units hence forth.
Property price may not be sustainable in the near future if the next CM is introduced amid home price stabalizing. :scared-3:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7244/7196370474_d654d152c4.jpg
Central Region comprises the following 22 Planning Areas : Downtown Core, Orchard, Marina East, Marina South, Museum, Newton, Outram, River Valley, Rochor, Singapore River, Straits View, Bishan, Bukit Merah, Bukit Timah, Geylang, Kallang, Marine Parade, Novena, Queenstown, Southern Islands, Tanglin and Toa Payoh.
AM I right to say, HDB is the biggest producer of MM?
studio apartment, one /two bedroom or even 3 bedrooms?
phantom_opera
15-05-12, 09:27
Laguna is right, we have many many small HDBs e.g. studios, 3r HDB, 3r HDB with 2 bedrooms mainly around 60sqm. The 300k SPRs we took in 2005-2009 can only afford to buy those 3r HDB in resale market, so all the 3r HDB psf go through the roof. The rental of some old 3r HDB @ Bedok can hit 2.Xk per month ..if you think about it the PC MM/1br offers an alternative to 3r HDB rental
If we continue to take in 30k immigrants and inflation stays high, lots of immigrants can only afford MMs / 1 br for rental if they prefer better lifestyle/privacy.
This also explains why 6XXsqft 2br or even 3br MM is so popular. Of course you can also buy a bit 1br 600sqft and do the partitioning yourself.
North East should be majority from watertown.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7244/7196370474_d654d152c4.jpg
Central Region comprises the following 22 Planning Areas : Downtown Core, Orchard, Marina East, Marina South, Museum, Newton, Outram, River Valley, Rochor, Singapore River, Straits View, Bishan, Bukit Merah, Bukit Timah, Geylang, Kallang, Marine Parade, Novena, Queenstown, Southern Islands, Tanglin and Toa Payoh.
Whether HDB produce the most MM or not is definitely not the issue here. KBW will if he ever, implement CM for PC only coz HDB MMs are generally built to help the poor and needy Singaporeans. PC MMs are designed for not too wealthy investors (but still decently well off) to enter the property investment market and for developers to make extra profits... What to do? :scared-4:
Shoeboxsupporter
15-05-12, 09:41
AM I right to say, HDB is the biggest producer of MM?
studio apartment, one /two bedroom or even 3 bedrooms?
His definition of MM is below 50 sqm :tongue3:
Whether HDB produce the most MM or not is definitely not the issue here. KBW will if he ever, implement CM for PC only coz HDB MMs are generally built to help the poor and needy Singaporeans. PC MMs are designed for not too wealthy investors (but still decently well off) to enter the property investment market and for developers to make extra profits... What to do? :scared-4:
simple, reduce LTV for purchase of MM units. Image if it is 20%, a buyer would have to fork out $400k to purchase a $0.5m unit.
Should snuff out lots of wannabe buyers immediately
Shoeboxsupporter
15-05-12, 09:43
Whether HDB produce the most MM or not is definitely not the issue here. KBW will if he ever, implement CM for PC only coz HDB MMs are generally built to help the poor and needy Singaporeans. PC MMs are designed for not too wealthy investors (but still decently well off) to enter the property investment market and for developers to make extra profits... What to do? :scared-4:
There are many foreigners or PR who is single and refuse to rent a room in HDB. The only choice for them is to rent or purchase MM.
I am a bit skeptical about these cooling measures. The past have shown that they keep using the wrong tools and have not tackled the root cause of why prices remain resilient.
Firstly, early CMs were targetted at speculators but there were never any substative info given as to whether there was indeed true speculative forces at play. I remember MBT being questioned about speculators and he could not provide a substantive answer as to how prevalent the speculation factor was.
The latest was focusesd on foreginers but had limited effect because probably foreigners did not account for much of the new sales.
The reason for the resilience is simple. Most of the people who are buying are HDB owners who have experienced an upsurge in wealth due to the high HDB valuations as well as the surge of foreign immigrants into the satellite towns.
Lower and middle income Foreigners and PRs will either rent or buy (PRs) HDB as this the lowest cost accomodation available to them. This is evidenced by the high rents and COV being paid. The locals who own HDB will suddenly enjoy new found wealth. They will use this to buy an affordable investment to protect or grow their wealth. With current low interest environment, the next best thing will be property. They will tend to buy MMs which are close to where they are staying or near MRTs which explains the surege in demand for MM units.
If the authorities really want to cool the market, they should be focusing on the root factors aka high HDB valuations and the influx of immgirants into satellite towns. However, there are political ramifications for messing with the HDB prices hence it is one sacred cow which will never be touched.
I got that impression as well. No CM for the next qtr.
Body Lang shows a combo of "too early to hammer MMs and developers", and "I'm not happy about the OCR/MM market" and "don't say I never warn you when MMs don't achieve it's investment potential eventhough I don't know".
From his expression and body language (*shrug*) he is just flagging out the danger... And indirectly warning hdb owners better not try to be funny and buy more MM (indicating next measure might be if hdb owner buy MM will be forced to sell hdb... Dont think will be any CM anytime soon.
phantom_opera
15-05-12, 09:58
IMO 50sqm should not be classified as MM ...with clever partitioning and efficient layout, it is still quite livable ... in fact I am quite impressed with 41sqm layout of 8RS (with 4sqm balcony mind you) ... more than enough for a couple with one baby ... also nowadays you save a lot of space with LED TV, iPad, iPod & working couple typically won't cook
His definition of MM is below 50 sqm :tongue3:
read on paper that MND call shoebox as unit size below 700sqft. So i guess MM is below 500sqft?
Wild Falcon
15-05-12, 10:05
Just because MMs are NEW in OCR and untested doesn't mean will FAIL right? I believe there is REAL demand from tenants. Everything untested means fail? In fact, I suspect these RCR and OCR MMs are going to fetch the best rental yields, just like OCR condos and HDB flats. So from an investment perspective, it has the best "fundamentals".
Anyway, we are all speculating. I hope if really got cooling measures, just reduce the LTV for the second and third property and increase interest rates. Increase interest rate will make rental yield unattractive. Solve the root of the problem. And pls, no more taxes for the garmen like ABSD!!!!
He's trying hard to please everybody but at the same time since mm in OCR is "untested", he's also trying to find a loop hole for himself, ie; if anything goes wrong, don't blame me 'coz I also don't know...
Wild Falcon
15-05-12, 10:15
Nice table. I like the way it classifies into regions and NOT just stupid OCR and CCR and say OCR is "over-supply" when OCR is 10x the size of CCR which means supply numbers are not comparable.
North and west has the least small units huh? This means potential for uplift in PSF from "downsizing" still there. And I really hope one day the planners can split Northwest (Upper bukit Timah, Hillview, Dairy Farm, Cashew, Bt Panjang etc) from west (Jurong, Clementi, West Coast) because very different. Its ironic HDB has the largest MM. Haha.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7244/7196370474_d654d152c4.jpg
Central Region comprises the following 22 Planning Areas : Downtown Core, Orchard, Marina East, Marina South, Museum, Newton, Outram, River Valley, Rochor, Singapore River, Straits View, Bishan, Bukit Merah, Bukit Timah, Geylang, Kallang, Marine Parade, Novena, Queenstown, Southern Islands, Tanglin and Toa Payoh.
phantom_opera
15-05-12, 10:16
Just because MMs are NEW in OCR and untested doesn't mean will FAIL right? I believe there is REAL demand from tenants. Everything untested means fail? In fact, I suspect these RCR and OCR MMs are going to fetch the best rental yields, just like OCR condos and HDB flats. So from an investment perspective, it has the best "fundamentals".
Anyway, we are all speculating. I hope if really got cooling measures, just reduce the LTV for the second and third property and increase interest rates. Increase interest rate will make rental yield unattractive. Solve the root of the problem. And pls, no more taxes for the garmen like ABSD!!!!
Our rate is pegged to US ... how to raise interest rate??
What Mr Khaw means by "...he would not hesitate to intervene should there be clear evidence of unsustainable investor demand for shoe-box apartments" is that so far, demand for such apartment appears sustainable, and that there is no evidence that such demand is unsustainable.
A good CM will be similar to that for HDB, that each person (or couple) can only qualify to buy 1 at most.
rattydrama
15-05-12, 10:45
What Mr Khaw means by "...he would not hesitate to intervene should there be clear evidence of unsustainable investor demand for shoe-box apartments" is that so far, demand for such apartment appears sustainable, and that there is no evidence that such demand is unsustainable.
A good CM will be similar to that for HDB, that each person (or couple) can only qualify to buy 1 at most.
I hope they are not going to dig how many MMs with same owner address. :p
Wild Falcon
15-05-12, 10:47
I think there will be no more cooling measures. Whoever who heard of it, where's the source?
I got that impression as well. No CM for the next qtr.
Body Lang shows a combo of "too early to hammer MMs and developers", and "I'm not happy about the OCR/MM market" and "don't say I never warn you when MMs don't achieve it's investment potential eventhough I don't know".
It was just a cover my ass thingy... like 'dont say I never warned you last quarter hor! i specifically stated the concern in Parliament!'
Is it that he is afraid HDB prices will drop if HDB owners are forced to throw out their HDB flats. Those with private ppty are not allowed to buy HDB even resale HDB but those with HDB are allowed to buy private ppty, why? What is the logic behind?
I also wish to find out the answer myself, since that fateful CM...
Can only conclude that our policy makers do not follow logic system in their thinking.
What are the possible actions will be taken ?
1. Not approve shoebox to be build by developer
Then it will curb the future supply of shoebox and benefit existing shoebox owners.
2. Increase stamp duty for shoebox buyer
Again, future developer will not lanch shoebox. Then it will benefit exising shoebox onwers.
After I read your post, then I look up at your nick ... then I understand why. ;)
Good good....
Any action to clamp down on shoebox will benefit existing shoebox owner :D :D :D
I already bought all I needed.... just here to kaypo and singsong only...
HUAT AH!!!!!!!!!! everybirdy
I think there will be no more cooling measures. Whoever who heard of it, where's the source?The last CM caught everybody by surprise. Now KBW make so much noise so likely no CM. No element of surprise already... :D
I bot a one bedroom unit with about 650sq ft, to prepare for old age, when my spouse is not around and children not living with me.
The size is just right
You are assuming you will outlive your spouse? Statistically if your spouse is around the same age or slightly younger, she is more likely to outlive you (life span of female is longer).
AM I right to say, HDB is the biggest producer of MM?
studio apartment, one /two bedroom or even 3 bedrooms?
That's the standard Singaporean way of squeezing maximum profit out of assets ma... stay in cheapest and earn rental from the highest yield one...
Ideally, since HDB is highest yield, they would love to stay in one HDB and rent out another HDB - but rule not allow.
So they can only stay in HDB and buy MM (max they can afford). Although HDB is still highest yield to rent out, they cannot stay in the MM and rent out HDB as - rule not allow. Besides MM can't fit their whole family of 4/5.
Therefore, exists the current situation. All caused by the typical HDB dwelling Singaporean middle class family with bit of extra money dunno where to spend.
You are assuming you will outlive your spouse? Statistically if your spouse is around the same age or slightly younger, she is more likely to outlive you (life span of female is longer).Statistics is but a gauge. Both my grandfathers outlived my grandmothers. My wife's paternal grandfather outlived grandmother too. :o
My wife will surely outlive me ...coz she's killing me slowly.
You are assuming you will outlive your spouse? Statistically if your spouse is around the same age or slightly younger, she is more likely to outlive you (life span of female is longer).
I think Laguna is a sis??
My wife will surely outlive me ...coz she's killing me slowly.
with her song (nag) eh? ;)
You are assuming you will outlive your spouse? Statistically if your spouse is around the same age or slightly younger, she is more likely to outlive you (life span of female is longer).
Yah, this is what I told my wife. I will certainly go earlier so she better treasure me NOW.:D Further more, I eat quite unhealthily but compensate by exercising.:)
There are many foreigners or PR who is single and refuse to rent a room in HDB. The only choice for them is to rent or purchase MM.
They can rent a whole 3RM HDB for the same price.
I got that impression as well. No CM for the next qtr.
Body Lang shows a combo of "too early to hammer MMs and developers", and "I'm not happy about the OCR/MM market" and "don't say I never warn you when MMs don't achieve it's investment potential eventhough I don't know".
Did you notice, as he talks about MM, the camera shifts to Dr Lee Bee Wah for 2 seconds... camera man is probably a forummer. Very notti...
IMO 50sqm should not be classified as MM ...with clever partitioning and efficient layout, it is still quite livable ... in fact I am quite impressed with 41sqm layout of 8RS (with 4sqm balcony mind you) ... more than enough for a couple with one baby ... also nowadays you save a lot of space with LED TV, iPad, iPod & working couple typically won't cook
41-4 sqm, even I super MM supporter find that a bit extreme la...
Ceiling mount all the washer dryer cabinet and shelves issit
I think Laguna is a sis??
If Laguna is a sis, I will consider having her as my property agent when she passes her exams (me rather sexist - don't like male agents).
Noope, with our Chicken and Duck talk.
I even bought a BP moniter ...and proved it.
Of course, I cld silence her ...but that wld be a crime...:tsk-tsk:
with her song (nag) eh? ;)
Noope, with our Chicken and Duck talk.
I even bought a BP moniter ...and proved it.
Of course, I cld silence her ...but that wld be a crime...:tsk-tsk:
Maybe she never showed you her burst blood vessel behind the forehead leh? :P
She is v clever ...forehead like LKY.
I tried every counter measure including that, but she very Elite Force - and Counter-Strike me everytime.
So now I play defensive...always hide and camouflage...working out well.
Thank you Singapore Armed Forces!
Maybe she never showed you her burst blood vessel behind the forehead leh? :P
what about when you repackage or refinance your property which you bought before the CM? Will the new rule kick in when you refinance your property?
Yes, if u refinance after CM, u will be affected
She is v clever ...forehead like LKY.
I tried every counter measure including that, but she very Elite Force - and Counter-Strike me everytime.
So now I play defensive...always hide and camouflage...working out well.
Thank you Singapore Armed Forces!
Haha.... you not so bad yourself.... very witty n humorous!!!
North East should be majority from watertown.
kovan? serangoon? are these north east as well?
kovan? serangoon? are these north east as well?
That table definition a bit diff. CENTRAL REGION includes Geylang fyi...
» Developers rush to meet marketing rules deadline
Straits Times: Tue, May 15
DEVELOPERS are warning of administrative headaches in the changeover to new rules this Friday requiring them to be more transparent in the marketing of their projects.
A check with developers by The Straits Times found that most are ready to meet the deadline on Friday.
But they report a frenzy of activity as developers, lawyers and architects rush to tie up loose ends given the tight deadline of just one month since the changes were announced.
Developers say that while they do not anticipate major challenges in complying with the new rules, the sales process will become much more complicated.
There will be an increase in paperwork, especially for projects with units left unsold at the time of the change.
They will need two versions of sales and purchase agreements and options to purchase - one for sales before May18 and another set after. Each will have different contractual obligations.
This means that even if a few units in a launched project are unsold, the developer must use the new versions of the purchase documents mandated by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) for all sales from Friday onwards.
The URA made changes to its Housing Developers Rules last month, requiring developers to give more information in writing on the project and unit to buyers before the option to purchase is issued.
This first phase of changes to ensure that 'what you see is what you get' requires developers to provide a drawn-to-scale project location plan and site plans. They must also give a unit floor plan and a breakdown of a unit's floor area by spaces such as bedrooms, balconies and bay windows.
Other new requirements include getting the consent of home buyers before making changes such as adjustments to a unit's layout.
A CapitaLand Residential Singapore spokesman said the firm has been adopting many of these best practices and does not anticipate major challenges in complying with the new rules.
'We will work with our various project consultants to compile and present the required information in the clearest and most concise manner possible, whether in the form of text or diagrams, so as to help our home buyers make better informed decisions.
'We believe this is a positive move that will enhance the attractiveness of the Singapore property market to both local and foreign home buyers, so we are fully supportive of it,' he added.
One privately held developer, however, flagged the tight deadline as one of the key challenges in complying with the new regulations.
'We have quite a number of projects that are affected and many of these projects are handled by the same consultants, so it means they have to work extra hard to meet the deadline,' it said.
Another mainboard-listed developer, which declined to be named, noted that certain rules are not clearly defined, leaving some ambiguity as to what exactly they apply to.
For instance, developers have to notify home buyers about 'substantive changes' to the common property in a project, but what constitutes 'substantive' is unclear. Positive improvements to the project could also possibly be held hostage by a single difficult buyer unless he chooses to forgo his purchase.
Mr Lee Liat Yeang, a partner at Rodyk & Davidson's Real Estate Practice Group, noted that these rules are also applicable to executive condominiums and Design, Build and Sell Scheme projects.
'Due to the special nature of such projects, developers and lawyers have spent extra time liaising with the regulatory authority HDB on the specific changes to be made to the option and sales and purchase agreement formats to be used for these projects.'
Mr Lee added that industry players feel the preparation time given for the new rules to be implemented is too short, especially since they are also applicable to projects which have been partly sold before this Friday.
[email protected]
Source: The Straits Times © Singapore Press Holdings Ltd.
That's the standard Singaporean way of squeezing maximum profit out of assets ma... stay in cheapest and earn rental from the highest yield one...
Ideally, since HDB is highest yield, they would love to stay in one HDB and rent out another HDB - but rule not allow.
So they can only stay in HDB and buy MM (max they can afford). Although HDB is still highest yield to rent out, they cannot stay in the MM and rent out HDB as - rule not allow. Besides MM can't fit their whole family of 4/5.
Therefore, exists the current situation. All caused by the typical HDB dwelling Singaporean middle class family with bit of extra money dunno where to spend.
I thought nowadays can rent out HDB and stay PC if u meet the MOP requirements?
I thought nowadays can rent out HDB and stay PC if u meet the MOP requirements?
WITH APPROVAL.
They can always choose to rescind the approval as and when necessary.
Frankly speaking, banning MMs is not inline with free market principles. Khaw is right to say that introducing anything to limit/ban developers building MMs give everybody impressions that he knows better, which is not true anyway. So, better leave everything to market forces then. Khaw just need to make sure that the developers show floorplan with detail dimensions and the rest is up to buyers. Quoting that MMs are mostly bought by those with HDB flats addresses and they are wrong don't make sense because this give people impression that they know better. In fact, I find many HDB flat address owners are very shrewd. Who knows, they may be right - there is indeed tremendous demand for MMs in OCRs! :D
The atmosphere in recent times seem to be addressing HDB owners' purchase of PC and more acutely MM units because of their affordability. He may just ban HDB owners from buying MM units hence forth.
Property price may not be sustainable in the near future if the next CM is introduced amid home price stabalizing. :scared-3:
Yes agree, the very old 3rm HDB flats only 7xx sqft, now they even build new 2rm HDB flats, didn't get the actual size but off-hand should be about 6xx sqft only or 5xx sqft only? So if they ban MMs less than say 600 sqft, it should also apply to HDB flats! :ashamed1:
AM I right to say, HDB is the biggest producer of MM?
studio apartment, one /two bedroom or even 3 bedrooms?
No lah, I believe I know their mentality (from conversation with a few of them). They bought OCR MMs now preparing for retirement - First they rent out MMs, when they retire at 55-62 years old, only the couple will move to MMs since kids all grown up and then rent out the HDB as retirement source of income. Smart right? :cheers1:
However, there is only 1 thing that could smash their plan - Govt policies. If govt ever implement anything against MMs that smash their retirement plan and dream, think they will not just loose 1 GRC only in next & subsequent elections (that is their threat!). :banghead:
That's the standard Singaporean way of squeezing maximum profit out of assets ma... stay in cheapest and earn rental from the highest yield one...
Ideally, since HDB is highest yield, they would love to stay in one HDB and rent out another HDB - but rule not allow.
So they can only stay in HDB and buy MM (max they can afford). Although HDB is still highest yield to rent out, they cannot stay in the MM and rent out HDB as - rule not allow. Besides MM can't fit their whole family of 4/5.
Therefore, exists the current situation. All caused by the typical HDB dwelling Singaporean middle class family with bit of extra money dunno where to spend.
HDB no facilities, plus live among foreign workers (many 3rm HDB flats rented to big group of foreign workers all squeeze within 1 unit!) and the lowest rung group of people in Singapore? Not sure you ever visited those HDB flats where whole blocks consist of 3rm HDB flats, then you will understand how bad these places and environment are!
They can rent a whole 3RM HDB for the same price.
phantom_opera
15-05-12, 14:03
D19 fast becoming the next D15
KOVAN RESIDENCES KOVAN ROAD Condominium 1 1,250,000 883 Strata 1,416psf May-12
KOVAN RESIDENCES KOVAN ROAD Condominium 1 1,280,000 883 Strata 1,450psf May-12
:scared-4:
» Developers rush to meet marketing rules deadline
CM can be targetted at either HDB or resale market so developers not involved or minimally involved...
D19 fast becoming the next D15
KOVAN RESIDENCES KOVAN ROAD Condominium 1 1,250,000 883 Strata 1,416psf May-12
KOVAN RESIDENCES KOVAN ROAD Condominium 1 1,280,000 883 Strata 1,450psf May-12
:scared-4:
This is not pricey considering its landed enclave and right next to mrt, few stops to Orchard belt
CM can be targetted at either HDB or resale market so developers not involved or minimally involved...
You really wish for CM meh... Actually since I already made all my moves I also wish for it to PUNISH the stupid buyers leh.... Make them pain deep deep
phantom_opera
15-05-12, 14:30
This is not pricey considering its landed enclave and right next to mrt, few stops to Orchard belt
Even higher than Waterbank@Dakota
Even higher than Waterbank@Dakota
Hello. Waterbank surrounded by hdb. Plus how many stops to DG....??? No fight totally. It also proves one point - MM is able to bring up and offer added boost to the value of even the large units in the area, including older developments. To owners, they are a godsend. Just look at where D15 is at today after proliferation of MM. I hereby proclaim new term MICKEYMAGIC!!!!!
You really wish for CM meh... Actually since I already made all my moves I also wish for it to PUNISH the stupid buyers leh.... Make them pain deep deepThink I'm what you consider stupid coz I'm actually hoping to buy! Lol! :cool:
phantom_opera
15-05-12, 14:35
Hello. Waterbank surrounded by hdb. Plus how many stops to DG....??? No fight totally.
I am really amused, Dakota is only a few stops to DG and closer to Suntec/Marina Bay ... guess D14 is now inferior to D19 due to the WT effect
And why 8@W 2br only 1000psf compared to Kovan? Same NEL but closer to DG woh?
Think I'm what you consider stupid coz I'm actually hoping to buy! Lol! :cool:
Hmmm woops
I am really amused, Dakota is only a few stops to DG and closer to Suntec/Marina Bay ... guess D14 is now inferior to D19 due to the WT effect
And why 8@W 2br only 1000psf compared to Kovan? Same NEL but closer to DG woh?8@W got no amenities like KR. Plus it hasn't TOP. Once TOP then see how the market respond to this project...
I am really amused, Dakota is only a few stops to DG and closer to Suntec/Marina Bay ... guess D14 is now inferior to D19 due to the WT effect
And why 8@W 2br only 1000psf compared to Kovan? Same NEL but closer to DG woh?
Dakota indeed closer to City. Depends where you frequent lor. Whether for work or leisure. 8W - sure or not. Not a fishing ad? Lodged caveat? Fire sale?
D19 has been commanding much respect in the housing market in recent years though...
D19 has been commanding much respect in the housing market in recent years though...
Landed and NEX effect....
This is not pricey considering its landed enclave and right next to mrt, few stops to Orchard belt
:eek: $1400psf is quite high for Hougang leh... but if compare against Sky Habitat, it's not la
More juicy stats, last 2yr, 50sqm purchase by purchaser address and districts :) :)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7211/7201679680_1b3465fe40.jpg
Obviously KBW does not have stats on the family nucleus size of these HDB buyers and cross check with their MM purchase but assuming most HDB owners are couples with kid[s] a 50sqm unit is obviously for investment
:eek: $1400psf is quite high for Hougang leh... but if compare against Sky Habitat, it's not la
Kovan and Hougang different ok. Kovan Residence not under Opp....
More juicy stats, last 2yr, 50sqm purchase by purchaser address and districts :) :)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7211/7201679680_1b3465fe40.jpg
Obviously KBW does not have stats on the family nucleus size of these HDB buyers and cross check with their MM purchase but assuming most HDB owners are couples with kid[s] a 50sqm unit is obviously for investment
What happened in D25? What project is that
Oh PRW....
What happened in D25? What project is that
Kovan and Hougang different ok. Kovan Residence not under Opp....
Kovan Residences under Aljunied GRC...Opp
Wild Falcon
15-05-12, 16:19
Looks like overall, HDB buyers are still a minority lah, other than D12, D14, D15, D19 - the usual "eastern" suspects with the bulk of MMs, so obviosly the HDB buyers are active there. But I think stats a bit skewed becos some districts have few transactions (<100) that are MM.
More juicy stats, last 2yr, 50sqm purchase by purchaser address and districts :) :)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7211/7201679680_1b3465fe40.jpg
Obviously KBW does not have stats on the family nucleus size of these HDB buyers and cross check with their MM purchase but assuming most HDB owners are couples with kid[s] a 50sqm unit is obviously for investment
blackjack21trader
15-05-12, 16:22
More juicy stats, last 2yr, 50sqm purchase by purchaser address and districts :) :)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7211/7201679680_1b3465fe40.jpg
Obviously KBW does not have stats on the family nucleus size of these HDB buyers and cross check with their MM purchase but assuming most HDB owners are couples with kid[s] a 50sqm unit is obviously for investment
Thanks for sharing, brother dtrax. We need unselfish brothers like you here in the Lion City ")
Updated
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7242/7201855308_38d6a3aba9_b.jpg
Kovan Residences under Aljunied GRC...Opp
Haha thanks bro I still stuck in yesteryear...
My conclusion... Singaporeans like to live around familar surroundings...
Hence there are hugh demand now for mass market condo near HDB Catchment areas... Prices have gone up so much that even though better located condos like Dakota, Dleedon, balmoral all around same psf but still the demand in mass market still better...
Or singaporeans just assume that condos at these places command much higher prices so dont bother to look
My conclusion... Singaporeans like to live around familar surroundings...
Hence there are hugh demand now for mass market condo near HDB Catchment areas... Prices have gone up so much that even though better located condos like Dakota, Dleedon, balmoral all around same psf but still the demand in mass market still better...
Or singaporeans just assume that condos at these places command much higher prices so dont bother to look
you could be right there. its a kampong spirit kind of thingy.
Some S'poreans actually really think certain areas too ex, hence conveniently write them off their search lists
phantom_opera
15-05-12, 18:41
SH highest psf in April 1893psf :jump-for-joy: Is this the highest in RCR so far?
Seahill highest psf is 1,573psf
WT highest psf is 1,556psf
RIVIERA 38 also managed to sell 15 units at median of 1162psf
D19 fast becoming the next D15
KOVAN RESIDENCES KOVAN ROAD Condominium 1 1,250,000 883 Strata 1,416psf May-12
KOVAN RESIDENCES KOVAN ROAD Condominium 1 1,280,000 883 Strata 1,450psf May-12
:scared-4:
Wow... Same psf as a 2 bedder in Bliss@kovan.
rattydrama
15-05-12, 19:58
HDB no facilities, plus live among foreign workers (many 3rm HDB flats rented to big group of foreign workers all squeeze within 1 unit!) and the lowest rung group of people in Singapore? Not sure you ever visited those HDB flats where whole blocks consist of 3rm HDB flats, then you will understand how bad these places and environment are!
agree with your comments. I have a chance to know those rental flats are mostly old man and foreign workers. With no work and illness and loneliness, some of the older folks choose to jump down from their blocks. I hear that one month you could hear 2 cases in a precint. Its all not reported. But I think it will be very depressing to stay in those flats.
rattydrama
15-05-12, 20:04
8@W got no amenities like KR. Plus it hasn't TOP. Once TOP then see how the market respond to this project...
8@W has a good pool of investors in this project. From hearsay. The buying and selling will sure push up the valuation. The location isnt bad thou... so many pockets of land, buyer and seller are willing to close deal provided not greedy. perhaps dp knows this.:p
Do you think the current record breaking prices are substainable as older projects are doing catching up now. :rolleyes:
agree with your comments. I have a chance to know those rental flats are mostly old man and foreign workers. With no work and illness and loneliness, some of the older folks choose to jump down from their blocks. I hear that one month you could hear 2 cases in a precint. Its all not reported. But I think it will be very depressing to stay in those flats.
Dog eye see people low.... Sigh. You guys must have grown up in nice GCB or posh swanky multimillion condo...
rattydrama
15-05-12, 20:46
Dog eye see people low.... Sigh. You guys must have grown up in nice GCB or posh swanky multimillion condo...
huh? I say Rental flat....tats the reality, no money, sick, lonely and old...you can just imagine.
rattydrama
15-05-12, 20:48
duplicate post
rattydrama
15-05-12, 20:50
SH highest psf in April 1893psf :jump-for-joy: Is this the highest in RCR so far?
Seahill highest psf is 1,573psf
WT highest psf is 1,556psf
RIVIERA 38 also managed to sell 15 units at median of 1162psf
ho say liao!! haha.. SH owner very happy and the rest of the owners will be very very happy
you can get less than half the price 1.5 years ago in RCR.
huh? I say Rental flat....tats the reality, no money, sick, lonely and old...you can just imagine.
Yes rental flat is like that. Sorry, I take back the dog eye comment I made. But I said rent 3rm HDB!!! Dunno how come become rental flat?!
rattydrama
15-05-12, 21:06
Yes rental flat is like that. But I said rent 3rm HDB!!! Dunno how come become rental flat?!
rental 3room hdb also have all kinds of characters and people usually buy and sell after few years for whatsoever reasons, difficult to have a neighbour for long.
singaporean family will buy direct from hdb and not thru resale with obvious reasons.
rental flat is worst of the worst. I think.
Yah, this is what I told my wife. I will certainly go earlier so she better treasure me NOW.:D Further more, I eat quite unhealthily but compensate by exercising.:)
At least you still compensate by exercising. For me, I eat unhearlthily and also no exercise.:ashamed1:
I always think that for a couple, the person who goes first are more fortunate, as the other half that left behind will "suffer from memory". 思念是最难受的.:2cents:
HDB no facilities, plus live among foreign workers (many 3rm HDB flats rented to big group of foreign workers all squeeze within 1 unit!) and the lowest rung group of people in Singapore? Not sure you ever visited those HDB flats where whole blocks consist of 3rm HDB flats, then you will understand how bad these places and environment are!
Actually not really, I think it depends on which areas. My mother-in-law stays in a 3rm HDB flats >40 yrs. There is a coffee shop at the ground floor. Btw, her surroundings are blocks of 3rm HDB flats. That area looks ok to me, not that complicated.
HDB no facilities, plus live among foreign workers (many 3rm HDB flats rented to big group of foreign workers all squeeze within 1 unit!) and the lowest rung group of people in Singapore? Not sure you ever visited those HDB flats where whole blocks consist of 3rm HDB flats, then you will understand how bad these places and environment are!
R u implying tt e ruling party has neglected e HDB heart-landers despite all e upgrades, particularly e lower income who stay in 3 bedroom? Want to lim kopi?
phantom_opera
15-05-12, 22:01
The HDB dwellers worst nightmare:
1. Funeral rituals at void deck, sometimes as long as 5 days, on music for the dead till midnight and then turn on again as early as 7+am :doh:
2. People talking loudly at car park or common facilities past midnight
3. Urine in the lift :mad:
4. Rubbish left by young punks in void deck
1. Funeral rituals at void deck, sometimes as long as 5 days, on music for the dead till midnight and then turn on again as early as 7+am :doh:
Actually most people quite automatic, at about 10pm they finish the prayers, and rarely do they start early in the morning. Frankly I don't mind these "farewell parties". After all, it's the final farewell.
2. People talking loudly at car park or common facilities past midnight
Yup
3. Urine in the lift :mad:
Yup
4. Rubbish left by young punks in void deck
Yup
Actually not really, I think it depends on which areas. My mother-in-law stays in a 3rm HDB flats >40 yrs. There is a coffee shop at the ground floor. Btw, her surroundings are blocks of 3rm HDB flats. That area looks ok to me, not that complicated.Yup... agreed... my HDB flat has coffeeshop, barber, clinic, SingaporePools, provision shops, bookshop, not forgetting a huge child care centre at my void deck, etc. Too spoilt liao... then my PC only got a quiet coffeeshop and a provision shop nearby, oh yes plus a tyre shop which is like huh!!! Nothing else!
The HDB dwellers worst nightmare:
1. Funeral rituals at void deck, sometimes as long as 5 days, on music for the dead till midnight and then turn on again as early as 7+am :doh:
2. People talking loudly at car park or common facilities past midnight
3. Urine in the lift :mad:
4. Rubbish left by young punks in void deckOnce I found vomit in the HDB lift and it was the start of a long weekend so no cleaners came. Fortunately, some nice residents took the liberty to clean the lift by pouring water into the lift. You forgot few other points.
5. People help you little your house by throwing flyers and pamphlets into your unit. Even when you are sitting in the living room with door open, they just walk pass and throw the rubbish in... :mad:
6. Your cars in the MSCP will have flyers stuck onto your windscreen like once a wk or twice a wk. Then if you throw the flyers onto the floor, you are considered to have littered the area. What I did was to loosen the flyers but still leave them on the windscreen then drive off and the flyers will fall off. Like that I'll feel better! :hell-hath-no-fury:
7. You have people loitering and even glue sniffing in the corridors or lift lobby. Then when you call the town council to come and investigate, they come the next day and say can't find the culprits... :doh: In condo, you can get your security guards who can come within 15 minutes and chances of catching the culprits are much much higher...
Some years back I recall reading the HDB was trying to secure the void deck area by grilling it up and access is by card. I am not sure what happen to the project but I thought this was a good attempt to give a sense of security to the residents.
Some years back I recall reading the HDB was trying to secure the void deck area by grilling it up and access is by card. I am not sure what happen to the project but I thought this was a good attempt to give a sense of security to the residents.
Where preventive controls like these were less feasible due to cost etc I think detective control like CCTV had been implemented for some estates at staircases, lift lobbies and mail box areas.
phantom_opera
16-05-12, 09:12
Remembered pet causing issue in pc too , cat urinating dog poo poo u name it
Wild Falcon
16-05-12, 10:54
Looks like a HDB bashing thread...
Some people like everything very clinical. Some people prefer a more colourful life in the heartlands with the local things u guys precisely despise - maybe the lonely old man sitting in the void deck, the getai during the 7th month, the old lady collecting cardboards, the ah long runner making phone calls using the public phone, the Chinese funeral rituals every now and then, or the noisy kopitiam showing soccer matches with occasional shouts of "GOAL!". In fact, there are people who get upset when their home becomes overly "genteel" - like what's happening to Tiong Bahru when the ang moh starts to move in and "hip cafeterias" start to replace the provision shops and kopitiams. To each his own. Let's not bash up those who love their HDB heartlands and their idiosyncracies. It's the only place we can see some snippets of the real Singapore.
Well said Mr Bird... Most will agree to preserve the Uniquely Singapore but all will have Not In My Backyard attitude. Its like kids oh so cute to play with but as long as its not my own to be responsible for....
Looks like a HDB bashing thread...
Some people like everything very clinical. Some people prefer a more colourful life in the heartlands with the local things u guys precisely despise - maybe the lonely old man sitting in the void deck, the getai during the 7th month, the old lady collecting cardboards, the ah long runner making phone calls using the public phone, the Chinese funeral rituals every now and then, or the noisy kopitiam showing soccer matches with occasional shouts of "GOAL!". In fact, there are people who get upset when their home becomes overly "genteel" - like what's happening to Tiong Bahru when the ang moh starts to move in and "hip cafeterias" start to replace the provision shops and kopitiams. To each his own. Let's not bash up those who love their HDB heartlands and their idiosyncracies. It's the only place we can see some snippets of the real Singapore.
Like.
HDB has its own charm (which I sometimes miss)... to each his/her own
Looks like a HDB bashing thread...
Some people like everything very clinical. Some people prefer a more colourful life in the heartlands with the local things u guys precisely despise - maybe the lonely old man sitting in the void deck, the getai during the 7th month, the old lady collecting cardboards, the ah long runner making phone calls using the public phone, the Chinese funeral rituals every now and then, or the noisy kopitiam showing soccer matches with occasional shouts of "GOAL!". In fact, there are people who get upset when their home becomes overly "genteel" - like what's happening to Tiong Bahru when the ang moh starts to move in and "hip cafeterias" start to replace the provision shops and kopitiams. To each his own. Let's not bash up those who love their HDB heartlands and their idiosyncracies. It's the only place we can see some snippets of the real Singapore.
This forum being CondoSIngapore certainly attract people living in Condo or people aspire to live in. As such, it is not surprising to hear bashing of HDB living. Hopefully, as our quality of lives improve over the years, we shall not forget where we all came from at some point of our lives.
Remember, not too long ago, there was only wooden huts and handful of HDB flats in Queenstown, Toa Payoh and MacPherson Estate in this city state during the 60s' and early 70s'. There was no new towns such as Ang Mo Kio, Pasir Ris or Tampines. Nor was there any condos the very fortunate few who now live in.
We are all part of this progress story and HDB living will continue to be our way of lives at least for 80% of our friends here. At least I would not bash the people who gave me what I have now.
This forum being CondoSIngapore certainly attract people living in Condo or people aspire to live in. As such, it is not surprising to hear bashing of HDB living. Hopefully, as our quality of lives improve over the years, we shall not forget where we all came from at some point of our lives.
Remember, not too long ago, there was only wooden huts and handful of HDB flats in Queenstown, Toa Payoh and MacPherson Estate in this city state during the 60s' and early 70s'. There was no new towns such as Ang Mo Kio, Pasir Ris or Tampines. Nor was there any condos the very fortunate few who now live in.
We are all part of this progress story and HDB living will continue to be our way of lives at least for 80% of our friends here. At least I would not bash the people who gave me what I have now.
Excellent words from Wild Falcon and Leeds to remind us that even if some might have bypassed HDB living in their lives, the broad success of SG (and thus all of us) must be attributable directly or indirectly to the success of the HDB.
HDB certainly have more of a kampong feel than PC. HDB dweller tends to know their neighbor better and it is also very common for HDB folks to give food and gifts to their neighbors during festive seasons. And also they are more tolerant towards others behavior.
In PC, most are so uptight, fake, pretentious and unfriendly.
In PC, most are so uptight, fake, pretentious and unfriendly.
dude u r not qualified to make such statement :tsk-tsk:
HDB certainly have more of a kampong feel than PC. HDB dweller tends to know their neighbor better and it is also very common for HDB folks to give food and gifts to their neighbors during festive seasons. And also they are more tolerant towards others behavior.
In PC, most are so uptight, fake, pretentious and unfriendly.
that's too sweeping a statement. what about everitt road? doesn't mean that those living in atas homes are better behaved.
dude u r not qualified to make such statement :tsk-tsk:
I agree. My neighbours all quite friendly.
DKSG
Anyway, back to the main topic.
Tomorrow is the rumored Cooling Measure Day!
So can we say if we dont hear anything by end of tomorrow, this current rumor is pronounced DEAD!
Then we wait till next time people predict CM again.
DKSG
I doubt there will be cooling measure tomorrow... how can MND leak out such information...
It could well be before the closing tender date of the sale of the 5 residential sites put up by URA.
I doubt there will be cooling measure tomorrow... how can MND leak out such information...
hearsay its MAS that will be making announcement.
If they choose to do it on thursday, I think tomorrow will be great for Hougang election as next fri will be cooling off day.
Anyway, back to the main topic.
Tomorrow is the rumored Cooling Measure Day!
So can we say if we dont hear anything by end of tomorrow, this current rumor is pronounced DEAD!
Then we wait till next time people predict CM again.
DKSG
With by election coming on 26 may, anything can happened.
HDB certainly have more of a kampong feel than PC. HDB dweller tends to know their neighbor better and it is also very common for HDB folks to give food and gifts to their neighbors during festive seasons. And also they are more tolerant towards others behavior.
.
That's many years ago HDB... when I was young, living in a 3 room flat.. everyone knew everyone else living on same floor (read: all true-blue singaporeans then) and were helpful and friendly. I miss those feeling. Nowadays, HDB all foreigners/new-born citizens, esp prc, many squeezed into 1 unit and not bothering to assimilate into singapore culture but instead they will gather downstairs amongst themselves talk at one corner and let their kids run around without any discipline....
That's many years ago HDB... when I was young, living in a 3 room flat.. everyone knew everyone else living on same floor (read: all true-blue singaporeans then) and were helpful and friendly. I miss those feeling. Nowadays, HDB all foreigners/new-born citizens, esp prc, many squeezed into 1 unit and not bothering to assimilate into singapore culture but instead they will gather downstairs amongst themselves talk at one corner and let their kids run around without any discipline....
perhaps things have changed a lot since then.
Wild Falcon
16-05-12, 14:43
Not that bad lah. Some HDB estates still have the local heartlander feel, esp the older ones. I mean I can understand why some people still prefer to stay where they grew up, and will choose to buy a condo near their childhood HDB home for sentimental or practical reasons like bring near their parents.
On cooling measures, my bet is no cooling measure leh.
perhaps things have changed a lot since then.
no need cooling measure.....mkt will crash when you are least expected.:D
With by election coming on 26 may, anything can happened.
How about this :
Cooling Measures announced on Cooling Off Day!
So appropriate!
My take is also there will be NO cooling measures.
Cool too many times, nothing changed, only make policy makers look bad.
Anyway, market forces will come to work on la...
When prices go up till a certain level, everyone will know it doesnt make sense and wont buy anymore. Right ?
Thats how market works. Just that nowadays with so many foreign Lambo drivers around, this "certain level" becomes higher and people cannot accept thats why make so much noise.
DKSG
That's many years ago HDB... when I was young, living in a 3 room flat.. everyone knew everyone else living on same floor (read: all true-blue singaporeans then) and were helpful and friendly. I miss those feeling. Nowadays, HDB all foreigners/new-born citizens, esp prc, many squeezed into 1 unit and not bothering to assimilate into singapore culture but instead they will gather downstairs amongst themselves talk at one corner and let their kids run around without any discipline....
PLUS complain if you cook curry!!!!
Past few CM lack bite. Assuming there is a round 6, I don't think it will have much impact either... unless something drastic like capital gains tax is introduced (which is unlikely given CGT has bigger repercussions on the economy and country)
Past few CM lack bite. Assuming there is a round 6, I don't think it will have much impact either... unless something drastic like capital gains tax is introduced (which is unlikely given CGT has bigger repercussions on the economy and country)
If there is any cooling measures, I believe they will be targeting at developers and property investors who are holding more than 2 properties.
Someone suggested before as a CM: a residential property loan tax, say at 0.5% of outstanding bank loan, which is payable to the govt. This tax can be collected by the banks quarterly on govt's behalf, like GST.
Govt can eat everyone's money, and yet maintain the exchange rate policy. Confirmed the mkt will cool. Sounds v clever but I doubt the self-vested scholars will impose such a tax. haha.
If there is any cooling measures, I believe they will be targeting at developers and property investors who are holding more than 2 properties.
likely at those with 2 pte properties or more. exclude hdb..
likely at those with 2 pte properties or more. exclude hdb..
You sound like you have 1 property and waiting for price correction to buy the second one. haha!
Why 2 ? Why not ONE ?
Anyway another 24 hours we will know if the rumor is correct that there is CM tomorrow!
DKSG
You sound like you have 1 property and waiting for price correction to buy the second one. haha!
Why 2 ? Why not ONE ?
Anyway another 24 hours we will know if the rumor is correct that there is CM tomorrow!
DKSG
Sorry me no hold residential except shophouse and hawker stalls
I think next cooling measure should target commercial, industrial and office properties! These are the ones causing inflation >5.x p.a. for the past 2 years! :rolleyes:
MAS? IMHO, nowsadays they like to shoot themselves in the foot? Try to stop incoming money from outside to properties and apply ABSD, end up local singaporeans bring S$ outside to buy foreign properties, sell S$ to buy foreign currencies will create downward pressure on S$ forex, then MAS frantically trying to defend and prop up S$! Don't know how much they loose in forex now? :doh:
hearsay its MAS that will be making announcement.
If they choose to do it on thursday, I think tomorrow will be great for Hougang election as next fri will be cooling off day.
HDB certainly have more of a kampong feel than PC. HDB dweller tends to know their neighbor better and it is also very common for HDB folks to give food and gifts to their neighbors during festive seasons. And also they are more tolerant towards others behavior.
In PC, most are so uptight, fake, pretentious and unfriendly.
I partially agree with you about the neighbours in HDB but I think all these happens only in older estates with old neighbours. Still remember when I was young living in a rented 2 bedroom HDB flats, there were 12 units in a floor, altogether there were 12 storeys. I practically know everyone on the same floor + some neighbours from upper and lower floors. But after married, shifted to a new HDB flat, everything seems to be so different.
I know of someone who have been staying in the HDB for many years. Some of her old neighbours had shifted out and new neighbours shifted in. One day we went to her house, we were standing at the corridor talking, maybe we talked too loud, the new neighbour (I think is PR) shut her windows so loudly as though trying to tell us that we had made so much noise. :ashamed1:
Another few more hours before we know if the rumored CM will be announced together with the candidates running for Hougang !
Say your last words and sit back and watch !
DKSG
blackapple
16-05-12, 22:55
No CM !!!
PAP would say why stop singaporeans buying. We never ask they to pay for the condo. They are just rich and want to pay and pay for the loan. :) :)
No CM !!!
PAP would say why stop singaporeans buying. We never ask they to pay for the condo. They are just rich and want to pay and pay for the loan. :) :)
I somehow agree with Black.
The country is stable when its people has focus!
Buy expensive condo, then spend long hours working to pay for the condo!
This will ensure peace, prosperity and progress for the nation!
The government certainly dont want a big group of rich and idling folks - eat full nothing to do - find fault, create trouble.
Right?
Just like your maid - if her family's condo at home suddenly spike 300%, you think she wants to work for you, listen to your nonsense and commands ?
DKSG
MAS? IMHO, nowsadays they like to shoot themselves in the foot? Try to stop incoming money from outside to properties and apply ABSD, end up local singaporeans bring S$ outside to buy foreign properties, sell S$ to buy foreign currencies will create downward pressure on S$ forex, then MAS frantically trying to defend and prop up S$! Don't know how much they loose in forex now? :doh:
the amount of money foreigners put in real estate in Singapore is ikan bilis to MAS.
If so why need ABSD on foreigners? What you said doesn't make any cow sense. :ashamed1:
the amount of money foreigners put in real estate in Singapore is ikan bilis to MAS.
If so why need ABSD on foreigners? What you said doesn't make any cow sense. :ashamed1:
ABSD does affect some inflow of foreign money into Singapore, but the size is ikan bilis compare to the assets under management in Singapore, which is around S$1.4 trillion,
foreigners bought 1,358 unit in Q42011 before the 10%absd, assuming average price of 2.5m each with 60% loan on average, total is inflow is $1.36b, and that is assuming the money is not already in Singapore.
PropertyNewbie
17-05-12, 00:52
curb lending for property purchases by banks is most effective CM. No more bullshit, whack both locals and foreigners by cutting off their ammo supply.
people buy and buy because banks lend and lend at cheap interest rates
Simply decrease LTV ratio to 40% for less than 1000 sq ft units for 1st property purchase for foreigners, 30% for 2nd property and 20% for 3rd property onwards. Singaporeans can loan 20% more in each instance so as to prevent foreigners fleeing when the shit hits the fan and leaving our local banks with massive bad debts.
For properties >1000 sq ft, decrease LTV ratio to 50% for for foreigners 1st purchase, 40% for 2nd >1000 sq ft property, and 30% for 3rd and subsequent properties. Singaporeans again can loan 20% more in each instance.
Solve the MM oversupply issue and make home prices fall at same time :D
curb lending for property purchases by banks is most effective CM. No more bullshit, whack both locals and foreigners by cutting off their ammo supply.
people buy and buy because banks lend and lend at cheap interest rates
Simply decrease LTV ratio to 40% for less than 1000 sq ft units for 1st property purchase for foreigners, 30% for 2nd property and 20% for 3rd property onwards. Singaporeans can loan 20% more in each instance so as to prevent foreigners fleeing when the shit hits the fan and leaving our local banks with massive bad debts.
For properties >1000 sq ft, decrease LTV ratio to 50% for for foreigners 1st purchase, 40% for 2nd >1000 sq ft property, and 30% for 3rd and subsequent properties. Singaporeans again can loan 20% more in each instance.
Solve the MM oversupply issue and make home prices fall at same time :D
Sounds almost as draconian as a communist government. So if it went that extreme, what incentive is there to work hard in your day job. Might as well just resign yourself to the fate that you'll never be out of the rat race.
To lower inflation, which all singaporeans are much more concerned than property prices going up (since >90% are property owners already), should just curb REITS, cool commercial properties (includ office, shops space, industrial etc)! Ban all bank loan to REITs & commercial properties! :p
No single owners can own >3 commercial properties otherwise impose 50% ABSD! :simmering:
curb lending for property purchases by banks is most effective CM. No more bullshit, whack both locals and foreigners by cutting off their ammo supply.
people buy and buy because banks lend and lend at cheap interest rates
Simply decrease LTV ratio to 40% for less than 1000 sq ft units for 1st property purchase for foreigners, 30% for 2nd property and 20% for 3rd property onwards. Singaporeans can loan 20% more in each instance so as to prevent foreigners fleeing when the shit hits the fan and leaving our local banks with massive bad debts.
For properties >1000 sq ft, decrease LTV ratio to 50% for for foreigners 1st purchase, 40% for 2nd >1000 sq ft property, and 30% for 3rd and subsequent properties. Singaporeans again can loan 20% more in each instance.
Solve the MM oversupply issue and make home prices fall at same time :D
phantom_opera
17-05-12, 09:02
If banks don't lend, how to make $ dude
To lower inflation, which all singaporeans are much more concerned than property prices going up (since >90% are property owners already), should just curb REITS, cool commercial properties (includ office, shops space, industrial etc)! Ban all bank loan to REITs & commercial properties! :p
No single owners can own >3 commercial properties otherwise impose 50% ABSD! :simmering:
Such targeted measures may become a form of discrimination.
Why 3 commercial ? Why not 1 or 10 ?
This is the same as saying married couples without kids have to pay increment tax of 2% more each year to "encourage" them to give birth --> it wont work, only create resentment.
Government is already tilting the field to benefit citizens already, and you still want to draw a line to split the citizens between those who own x number of whatever properties vs those who doesnt ?
Think BearBear, Think!
DKSG
That aside ...
Any Cooling Measures ?
This morning is very COOLING already ... with rain all over ...
DKSG
Such targeted measures may become a form of discrimination.
Why 3 commercial ? Why not 1 or 10 ?
This is the same as saying married couples without kids have to pay increment tax of 2% more each year to "encourage" them to give birth --> it wont work, only create resentment.
Government is already tilting the field to benefit citizens already, and you still want to draw a line to split the citizens between those who own x number of whatever properties vs those who doesnt ?
Think BearBear, Think!
DKSG
bear bear is just trying to be cheeky.:p
phantom_opera
17-05-12, 09:32
I found avatar suitable for teddybear :-)
http://talkradiox.com/files/images/angryteddybear.jpg
Haha...cute.
Here we have a situation whereby banks have too much $ to lend, developers have properties to sell and customers have too much money in the bank with nowhere else to put it.
The water pressure is just too great. Unless they ease pressure at the source, putting on more caps on the pipes will just divert the pressure elsewhere. As I read somewhere else, one of the side effects of all these CMs have just led to smaller and smaller MMs to increase affordability because customers just want to own some property, it doesn't matter how small.
The more you push down the purchasing power of consumers, the more the retailers will find ways to match the customers need. If you can't afford a 10kg pack of rice, I will just repackage it into smaller packs lor....
bigapplefan
17-05-12, 10:08
:p
I found avatar suitable for teddybear :-)
http://talkradiox.com/files/images/angryteddybear.jpg
is this taken from any movie? i would love to check out this movie if there is.
That aside ...
Any Cooling Measures ?
This morning is very COOLING already ... with rain all over ...
DKSG
If there is any announcement today, it will most likely be after SGX closing.
"3" inspired by govt policies mah. You see, 3rd property you citizen also need to pay 3% ABSD, so "3" lor! :p
Such targeted measures may become a form of discrimination.
Why 3 commercial ? Why not 1 or 10 ?
This is the same as saying married couples without kids have to pay increment tax of 2% more each year to "encourage" them to give birth --> it wont work, only create resentment.
Government is already tilting the field to benefit citizens already, and you still want to draw a line to split the citizens between those who own x number of whatever properties vs those who doesnt ?
Think BearBear, Think!
DKSG
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