View Full Version : HO SAY LIAO!! 25K Intake Per YEar
all Gurus,
pls come n share your view on this. Projected how many PC needed and how it affect HDB prices. Please share your views based on no of condos build n HDB and if there is still an over supply now?
all come post your views. Basic also welcome!!
25k divide by 3 pax per unit, we need a huge 8k+ new homes per year!!!
Oh no govt are just releasing 25k hdb and 15k privates per year.....
Seriously this is jus new citizens excluding employment pass and work permit
25k divide by 3 pax per unit, we need a huge 8k+ new homes per year!!!
Oh no govt are just releasing 25k hdb and 15k privates per year.....
Seriously this is jus new citizens excluding employment pass and work permit
somehow, i support it not only from prospective gain from property investment but also from tax sharing perspective... lol :rolleyes:
but i still they should also help the "native" not so well off or the low income Singaporeans survive in this well where the rich becomes richer... by channeling more benefits for the lower income and provide an advantage for non-professional / skilled jobs for employing such lower income Singaporeans....
Yeh!
a small extract
11. As more citizens retire and fewer enter the working-age band of 20-64 years,
the number of citizens of working ages will start to shrink. At current TFR and without
immigration, the size of our working-age citizen population will shrink drastically.
(See Scenario B in Chart 6). This effect is mitigated by immigration. Immigration will
slow down the decline of citizens in the working-age band. An inflow of 25K new
citizens per year would keep the size of our working-age citizen population relatively
stable (See Scenario E in Chart 6).
so multiple x3 assuming they come with family, thats 75k increase n pop.
Expected, tap has to be open and its now in the news to prep citizens.
Excuses....Japan also facing aging population, how come they never sell their citizenship to foreigners?
Immigration will only develop a mercenary society. No loyality, no customs, no traditions....only money.
2003 SARS was the peak of Singapore's unity and identity. After that Singapore went down into the darkside.
:tsk-tsk:
JOKER, HO Say Liao or Siao Liao??:D
Think got to sit on roof top of MRT Liao:doh:
JOKER, HO Say Liao or Siao Liao??:D
Think got to sit on roof top of MRT Liao:doh:
follow india, sit onto bus rooftop:D
JOKER, HO Say Liao or Siao Liao??:D
Think got to sit on roof top of MRT Liao:doh:Why sit on roof top of MRT if its not even moving... jammed and break down every week!!! :rolleyes:
Excuses....Japan also facing aging population, how come they never sell their citizenship to foreigners?
Immigration will only develop a mercenary society. No loyality, no customs, no traditions....only money.
2003 SARS was the peak of Singapore's unity and identity. After that Singapore went down into the darkside.
:tsk-tsk:
How can we compare w Japan. Japan is so rich and probably they still can sustain without foreigner. But on long term view japan will decline if they don change their mind set. Let's be realistic, if our population continue to shrink with low birth rate how can we remIn competitive n continue our growth. We will be back to kampong life. I support bringing in foreigner but govt must also study all possible problem will arise and to ensure such problem are well managed. In fact now ppl complain abt foreigner becos govt did not manage the problem the foreigner brought in like transport, housing. Not really becos they don like foreigner. Not forgetting first batch of citizen are mostly from china
speculator
25-04-12, 00:26
How can we compare w Japan. Japan is so rich and probably they still can sustain without foreigner. But on long term view japan will decline if they don change their mind set. Let's be realistic, if our population continue to shrink with low birth rate how can we remIn competitive n continue our growth. We will be back to kampong life. I support bringing in foreigner but govt must also study all possible problem will arise and to ensure such problem are well managed. In fact now ppl complain abt foreigner becos govt did not manage the problem the foreigner brought in like transport, housing. Not really becos they don like foreigner. Not forgetting first batch of citizen are mostly from china
Agree. We cannot compare to Japan. They have so much wealth from the past.
Colonised Taiwan for 50 years. Colonised part of China, colonised Korea and other parts of Asia. All the money and wealth build up.
What we Singapore have would have already been taken by the British.
Nothing but people and mouth to feed.
But this rich man (Japan) if he doesn't change. He will become future Europe.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1079513/1/.html
Government encourages more Singapore PRs to take up citizenship
By Imelda Saad | Posted: 06 September 2010 2323 hrs
SINGAPORE: The Singapore Government is moving to encourage more Permanent Residents in the country to take up citizenship.
Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong said some PRs will be approached to become citizens and if they don't do so, their status will not be renewed.
Immigration was one of many issues tackled during a dialogue session with over 200 residents from Marine Parade to gather feedback on the Prime Minister's National Day Rally.
SM Goh did not give details on getting PRs to take up citizenship.
"Moving forward, we are going to approach some of them to take up Singapore citizenship, if they don't then their PR will not be renewed. That's a better way.
"We now have quite a few PRs, 500,000 in Singapore, so hopefully maybe 50,000 can be selected to become Singapore citizens, the rest can be PRs, contributing to Singapore's economy," he said.
SM Goh was responding to a suggestion from a participant who said Employment Pass holders should take up citizenship which he believed will discourage foreign talents from working in Singapore.
Besides, SM Goh pointed out that Employment Pass holders serve as buffers where their numbers can be reduced during a downturn.
Another radical suggestion put forward was to bar foreigners from buying private property but SM Goh noted developers would just build more high-rise private apartments to counter it.
"At the moment, our policy will be, condominium, private sector. They want to buy, let them buy because they actually bring in money for Singapore. They may not actually stay there but they bring in money.
"They buy from locals, locals are happy to get the money but it's not actually adding to space. In fact, that's actually ideal. They buy here, they don't drive cars, they don't live here, we just get their money! They're buying air!" laughed SM Goh.
Excuses....Japan also facing aging population, how come they never sell their citizenship to foreigners?
Immigration will only develop a mercenary society. No loyality, no customs, no traditions....only money.
2003 SARS was the peak of Singapore's unity and identity. After that Singapore went down into the darkside.
:tsk-tsk:
japan is tweaking their immigration policies as we speak and they recognise the huge gap in their population demographics. firstly, must pass their language exam so time to invest in a JPL cert
Expected, tap has to be open and its now in the news to prep citizens.
I don't see this as opening tap cos this qnty is quite consistent with past inflOw.
The big question is how about employment pass and work permits.
In 2007-9 there were years we roughy in a few hundred thousands people, thats the number that creates the impact. My take Is this will slow so overall population growth will slow or be stagnant. The old 6.5m number is finished.
Unfortunately They didn't state or dont want to state Singapore optimal population target which is the key to property demand.
Allthepies
25-04-12, 07:49
Excuses....Japan also facing aging population, how come they never sell their citizenship to foreigners?
Immigration will only develop a mercenary society. No loyality, no customs, no traditions....only money.
2003 SARS was the peak of Singapore's unity and identity. After that Singapore went down into the darkside.
:tsk-tsk:
interesting comment. but u seems to left out the profile of the residents in japan against singapore. one group built up its success completely through its own native residents, the other built up its success from largely a migrant population. one has much larger population, bigger land area, "aggressor" genetic pool; the other has tiny population, a dot of land area and most impt of all complaining attitude.
Tell the govt don't bullshit lah... my colleague stayed in Singapore for more than 10 years. He's a foreigner and got his PR some years back. Last year applied for citizenship for his entire family. His track record is v good. No traffic offenses, etc. But 6 months after his initial application, he received a letter notifying him that his application was unsuccessful. No reason was given. His friend's application to be PR was also unsuccessful. Now govt encourage PR to take up citizenship which they are constantly rejecting? No link leh! What kind of PRs are they looking for to become citizens? One that stayed in Singapore for only for 2 months??? :confused:
Isn't it obvious? Instructions are not passed down fast enough. Ask your friends to apply a few months later.
interesting comment. but u seems to left out the profile of the residents in japan against singapore. one group built up its success completely through its own native residents, the other built up its success from largely a migrant population. one has much larger population, bigger land area, "aggressor" genetic pool; the other has tiny population, a dot of land area and most impt of all complaining attitude.
To your comment about "complaining attitude". I think this is our cultural expression of giving feedback. Giving feedback can be expressed in many forms and vary from country to country. For good or for bad, our mode for giving feedback is defined as "complain". Is it necessarily bad? I'd rather we "complained" and the affected party/organization took action. Are there better ways to express our feedback? Most definitely
Tell the govt don't bullshit lah... my colleague stayed in Singapore for more than 10 years. He's a foreigner and got his PR some years back. Last year applied for citizenship for his entire family. His track record is v good. No traffic offenses, etc. But 6 months after his initial application, he received a letter notifying him that his application was unsuccessful. No reason was given. His friend's application to be PR was also unsuccessful. Now govt encourage PR to take up citizenship which they are constantly rejecting? No link leh! What kind of PRs are they looking for to become citizens? One that stayed in Singapore for only for 2 months??? :confused:
Ha bro, last year was a very sensitive year to apply PR, citizenship, etc. due to GE. I am sure if your colleague tried again this time, it could be a breeze?
I think the stringent test should be done at the PR level rather than the citizenship level. If they are willing to sink their roots here for good we should welcome them. But because PRship comes with so many benefits, we have to be very selective.
Tell the govt don't bullshit lah... my colleague stayed in Singapore for more than 10 years. He's a foreigner and got his PR some years back. Last year applied for citizenship for his entire family. His track record is v good. No traffic offenses, etc. But 6 months after his initial application, he received a letter notifying him that his application was unsuccessful. No reason was given. His friend's application to be PR was also unsuccessful. Now govt encourage PR to take up citizenship which they are constantly rejecting? No link leh! What kind of PRs are they looking for to become citizens? One that stayed in Singapore for only for 2 months??? :confused:
Your colleague & his friend probably arent 'value adding' enough to Singapore. In fact, I might venture to add paying taxes alone is not enough. I have sponsored and written reference letters for some of my staff, ranging from those who has worked 3 - 8 years, from supervisory to middle-mgmt level staff and usually the middle-mgmt staff application gets approved faster. I have a supervisor (Income $150k pa) who applied x3, worked for 8 yrs, yet to gain citizenship. PR obtained 6 yrs ago.
I hope this is the direction that Singapore is moving towards. Give PR and citizenship only to those who bring significant value to Singapore, and I don't mean just payin taxes. I leave it to policy makers to define what is 'significant value/ contribution'. Otherwise, the new PR/ citizen is only going to use up Singapore's scarce resources (subsidized housing, medical, education etc) and add to infrastructure woes and the taxes they paid are probably not enough to cover the social costs he AND NS family brings to Singapore..
Allthepies
25-04-12, 08:48
To your comment about "complaining attitude". I think this is our cultural expression of giving feedback. Giving feedback can be expressed in many forms and vary from country to country. For good or for bad, our mode for giving feedback is defined as "complain". Is it necessarily bad? I'd rather we "complained" and the affected party/organization took action. Are there better ways to express our feedback? Most definitely
good complains/feedbacks are always welcome but recently when u prowl the local forums/yahoo forums, what u read are unendless and meaningless comments scolding a certain group of people. this gives me the impression that Singapore is a "complaining" society although this is probably not the truth. A small group of forumers are spoiling the image of Singapore.
As a work permit holder , they are taxed during the 1st 4 years only the days they are in Singapore, should they be out of Singapore for work or holiday , those days no tax, there is a cap to the number of days.:doh:
Your colleague & his friend probably arent 'value adding' enough to Singapore. In fact, I might venture to add paying taxes alone is not enough. I have sponsored and written reference letters for some of my staff, ranging from those who has worked 3 - 8 years, from supervisory to middle-mgmt level staff and usually the middle-mgmt staff application gets approved faster. I have a supervisor (Income $150k pa) who applied x3, worked for 8 yrs, yet to gain citizenship. PR obtained 6 yrs ago.
I hope this is the direction that Singapore is moving towards. Give PR and citizenship only to those who brings significant value to Singapore.Qs... what's the point of giving PR and citizen status to those who may be value adding but after staying 2 years, use Singapore as a stepping board to move into US or Europe.... it has to be an intricate balance between loyalty and value added commitment.
Qs... what's the point of giving PR and citizen status to those who may be value adding but after staying 2 years, use Singapore as a stepping board to move into US or Europe.... it has to be an intricate balance between loyalty and value added commitment.
I agree, and the last few years we have too much of such PRs, thus we really need to be very selective.
Qs... what's the point of giving PR and citizen status to those who may be value adding but after staying 2 years, use Singapore as a stepping board to move into US or Europe.... it has to be an intricate balance between loyalty and value added commitment.
nobody can be certain of who is going to root here or to use here as stepping stone. is easier said than done. is like when u recruit a person will u know that this person is going to stay for long? if a person decide to take up PR/citizenship, there must have a certain level of commitment before such decision is made. this is a big decision which no one will just decide and change 1-2 yrs later. is someone choose to leave after 2 yrs, we just have to accept it and not to broad over it. afterall few leavers will not impact so much
nobody can be certain of who is going to root here or to use here as stepping stone. is easier said than done. is like when u recruit a person will u know that this person is going to stay for long? if a person decide to take up PR/citizenship, there must have a certain level of commitment before such decision is made. this is a big decision which no one will just decide and change 1-2 yrs later. is someone choose to leave after 2 yrs, we just have to accept it and not to broad over it. afterall few leavers will not impact so muchPrecisely my point. By appointing someone who can value add to our nation does not mean that the person will stay on so yes we have to deliberate for a longer duration. Checking on the person's pass records in Singapore should provide a better glimpse on the prospect of having that person stay on long in Singapore vs merely looking if he can value add. After securing a foreigner who has the heart for Singapore and then subsequently grooming him to contribute more to the country is a better option than securing a foreigner who's heart is elsewhere and then try to convince him to stay. :cheers5:
Time to look for investment unit again. I think OCR become more popular, less expenssive , new Citizn can afford interm of purchase / rent.
There will be positive impact on the property market.
By stating these number outright, market is able to anticipate and make adjustments to cater to these numbers.
DKSG
Precisely my point. By appointing someone who can value add to our nation does not mean that the person will stay on so yes we have to deliberate for a longer duration. Checking on the person's pass records in Singapore should provide a better glimpse on the prospect of having that person stay on long in Singapore vs merely looking if he can value add. After securing a foreigner who has the heart for Singapore and then subsequently grooming him to contribute more to the country is a better option than securing a foreigner who's heart is elsewhere and then try to convince him to stay. :cheers5:
i vote for a transparent points-based system, like what lots of other countries are using. currently, no one knows the reason for acceptance or rejection
Buy Landed
High value new citizen = increase pool of buyers for landed.
Assuming 25K citizens = 8 K household
Assuming 25 % wants a landed property = 2K demand per year.
Current landed supply is a 4K per year , thus 50 % will be taken by new citizens.
From what i deduce, landed price can only go up with the combination of new citizens, hot money and increase demand from current citizens.
Not forgetting, landed is still selling at 20% and in some instance 50 % discount of land ( not buildup ) price, including buildup, the potential could be alot more in % terms.
As a work permit holder , they are taxed during the 1st 4 years only the days they are in Singapore, should they be out of Singapore for work or holiday , those days no tax, there is a cap to the number of days.:doh:
It's only provided the ate put of the country for 120 days total if not it don't apply
good complains/feedbacks are always welcome but recently when u prowl the local forums/yahoo forums, what u read are unendless and meaningless comments scolding a certain group of people. this gives me the impression that Singapore is a "complaining" society although this is probably not the truth. A small group of forumers are spoiling the image of Singapore.
Yes also realized there are just too much bickering . N not constructive. Also find many of the view very self centered. It's a concern.
Precisely my point. By appointing someone who can value add to our nation does not mean that the person will stay on so yes we have to deliberate for a longer duration. Checking on the person's pass records in Singapore should provide a better glimpse on the prospect of having that person stay on long in Singapore vs merely looking if he can value add. After securing a foreigner who has the heart for Singapore and then subsequently grooming him to contribute more to the country is a better option than securing a foreigner who's heart is elsewhere and then try to convince him to stay. :cheers5:
Well said..Singapore is a nice country definitely and we can afford to choose carefully the best AND Suitable ones (in terms of knowledge, moral, values that can match Sg profile and not opportunists which I have heard alot) and definitely not cheap low cost influx replacing Sgrean(sounds familiar?:p ), creating stagnant pay etc... Do not just open the gate and let all Dick, tom and harry all rush in and create stress to all aspects in this small city..:p
nobody can be certain of who is going to root here or to use here as stepping stone. is easier said than done. is like when u recruit a person will u know that this person is going to stay for long? if a person decide to take up PR/citizenship, there must have a certain level of commitment before such decision is made. this is a big decision which no one will just decide and change 1-2 yrs later. is someone choose to leave after 2 yrs, we just have to accept it and not to broad over it. afterall few leavers will not impact so much
i agree with your comments. there is no sure win-win situation.
i agree with your comments. there is no sure win-win situation.
But standing in the property investment point of view (since this is a condo forum) more citizens = more demand for property = better for us? :beats-me-man:
But standing in the property investment point of view (since this is a condo forum) more citizens = more demand for property = better for us? :beats-me-man:Correct up to a certain point. How many more homes can our shores accommodate? Another 5 million population increase and we have to build 100 storey high HDB flats and PCs. :scared-4:
But standing in the property investment point of view (since this is a condo forum) more citizens = more demand for property = better for us? :beats-me-man:
hard to say bro...hard to say...all these we have seen is in micro env which can be pre conditioned by our master(for eg CM, intake etc they are variable not fixed), asumming macro env is constant(can it be?:p )
But standing in the property investment point of view (since this is a condo forum) more citizens = more demand for property = better for us? :beats-me-man:
from a property owner's standpoint, yes. however, aren't we all complaining about FTs chogging up public infrastructure, not adapting to local culture, mowing down pedestrains with reckless driving, etc?
as we can't have our cake and eat it at the same time, it's only wise to pick & choose the influx of candidates. turning off the immigration tap blindly won't work. who will clean up my beloved maxwell & hong lim hawker centres without FTs?
Correct up to a certain point. How many more homes can our shores accommodate? Another 5 million population increase and we have to build 100 storey high HDB flats and PCs. :scared-4:
that'll be cool! imagine the price difference from #02 to #100. a good 500k difference? :beats-me-man:
Correct up to a certain point. How many more homes can our shores accommodate? Another 5 million population increase and we have to build 100 storey high HDB flats and PCs. :scared-4:
there is still lots of land around. just push westwards & northwest-wards. another 5m is too much though. maybe have to live like vietcongs in underground tunnels :scared-5:
http://gintai.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/is-this-my-singapore/
there is still lots of land around. just push westwards & northwest-wards. another 5m is too much though. maybe have to live like vietcongs in underground tunnels :scared-5:
push too much west north will hit lim chu kang, every night can hear and feel live firing exercise from Sugei Gedong! :D :cheers5:
push too much west north will hit lim chu kang, every night can hear and feel live firing exercise from Sugei Gedong! :D :cheers5:
what's sungei gedong compared with tengah airbase? didn't KBW mention about developing that area into another HDB town?
everyday can hear band music and the droning of F4s
from a property owner's standpoint, yes. however, aren't we all complaining about FTs chogging up public infrastructure, not adapting to local culture, mowing down pedestrains with reckless driving, etc?
as we can't have our cake and eat it at the same time, it's only wise to pick & choose the influx of candidates. turning off the immigration tap blindly won't work. who will clean up my beloved maxwell & hong lim hawker centres without FTs?
Agreed, it's really funny just a month from the Budget Speech which mentioned the cut of FT intake, now we are increasing our new citizenship numbers. :scared-4:
Not forgetting like what yap mentioned above, these new citizens, in order to add value to our society are probably highly paid professionals or large families, things that Singapore benefit from making them citizens.
Are we as a country ready for those numbers? Public transport, healthcare needs, education for the new children from these families, more highly priced COEs?
I'm sure we're not giving out citizenship to domestic helpers/ construction workers. These new citizens will demand a quality of life here as well. We need to be ready to have them.
http://gintai.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/is-this-my-singapore/
thanks for sharing...a touching article from some singaporean on the ground that make reader contemplates....
what's sungei gedong compared with tengah airbase? didn't KBW mention about developing that area into another HDB town?
everyday can hear band music and the droning of F4s
Bro, the tanks live firing is crazy. The vibration from every rounds being fired can be felt kilometers away!
Bro, the tanks live firing is crazy. The vibration from every rounds being fired can be felt kilometers away!
as long as the shells don't land in your estate is fine right? NIMBY (not in my own back yard) :p
airplanes taking off also cause lots of vibration too. hence, don't think condos with glass facades will do too well in that area :D
Agreed, it's really funny just a month from the Budget Speech which mentioned the cut of FT intake, now we are increasing our new citizenship numbers. :scared-4:
Not forgetting like what yap mentioned above, these new citizens, in order to add value to our society are probably highly paid professionals or large families, things that Singapore benefit from making them citizens.
Are we as a country ready for those numbers? Public transport, healthcare needs, education for the new children from these families, more highly priced COEs?
I'm sure we're not giving out citizenship to domestic helpers/ construction workers. These new citizens will demand a quality of life here as well. We need to be ready to have them.
well, healthcare is already taken care of with so many new hospitals coming online by 2020. it's the public transport infrastructure that's failing.
having said so, i can't understand the quantum ($900m!!!) required to upgrade our rail infrastructure. can i infer that the ex-Cleopatra delibrately stave off upgrading investments to show more profit on the books (and in turn, more bonuses for herself)?
push too much west north will hit lim chu kang, every night can hear and feel live firing exercise from Sugei Gedong! :D :cheers5:Or hear stuff from that nearby cemetery that you shouldn't be hearing??? :scared-1:
from a property owner's standpoint, yes. however, aren't we all complaining about FTs chogging up public infrastructure, not adapting to local culture, mowing down pedestrains with reckless driving, etc?
as we can't have our cake and eat it at the same time, it's only wise to pick & choose the influx of candidates. turning off the immigration tap blindly won't work. who will clean up my beloved maxwell & hong lim hawker centres without FTs?
tats why those ppl who complain n complain has no foresight. they only know how to vent their anger becos it affect their convenient and crash their ideal cheap home dream but yet they also want their house to sell high high to foreigner when is teir turn to SELL :doh:
there is still lots of land around. just push westwards & northwest-wards. another 5m is too much though. maybe have to live like vietcongs in underground tunnels :scared-5:Those remaining land can at most support another million or so? There is huge parts of the island is reserved as rural catchment areas where residential and industrial buildings are strictly prohibited, like Macritchie Reservoir area and all those live firing areas for military purposes. :beats-me-man:
Or hear stuff from that nearby cemetery that you shouldn't be hearing??? :scared-1:
u mean the paranormal stuff or illegal illicit types (with banglas and women FTs)? :scared-5:
Those remaining land can at most support another million or so? There is huge parts of the island is reserved as rural catchment areas where residential and industrial buildings are strictly prohibited, like Macritchie Reservoir area and all those live firing areas for military purposes. :beats-me-man:
there's still lots of space around pasir ris/seng kang/punggol area that's undeveloped, fyi
we are still nowhere near tokyo's kind of density
Tell the govt don't bullshit lah... my colleague stayed in Singapore for more than 10 years. He's a foreigner and got his PR some years back. Last year applied for citizenship for his entire family. His track record is v good. No traffic offenses, etc. But 6 months after his initial application, he received a letter notifying him that his application was unsuccessful. No reason was given. His friend's application to be PR was also unsuccessful. Now govt encourage PR to take up citizenship which they are constantly rejecting? No link leh! What kind of PRs are they looking for to become citizens? One that stayed in Singapore for only for 2 months??? :confused:
very good what, just remain as PR lor haha.
still can sell high high to foreigners with all CMs ....OCR or CCR? this one need to know..
u mean the paranormal stuff or illegal illicit types (with banglas and women FTs)? :scared-5:Take your pick! :cheers5:
very good what, just remain as PR lor haha.
yes...alot of PRs still want to be PR but their offsprings singaporean..so one day anything happen still got motherland to return to if nothing happen can enjoy dual citizenship adv for eg buy house la, ...;)
Citizen should be given to people not just because of the value they bring, but also that they have the intention to make Singapore their Lifelong home.
very good what, just remain as PR lor haha.That is exactly what he's doing now... just waiting for the govt to call him to ask him to take up citizenship... Lol! :cheers5:
Citizen should be given to people not just because of the value they bring, but also that they have the intention to make Singapore their Lifelong home.
may i ask how to implement this? it's impossible to verify true intentions
yes...alot of PRs still want to be PR but their offsprings singaporean..so one day anything happen still got motherland to return to if nothing happen can enjoy dual citizenship adv for eg buy house la, ...;)
many malaysians are like that, over 30 years in spore riao still a PR, haha.
well, healthcare is already taken care of with so many new hospitals coming online by 2020. it's the public transport infrastructure that's failing.
having said so, i can't understand the quantum ($900m!!!) required to upgrade our rail infrastructure. can i infer that the ex-Cleopatra delibrately stave off upgrading investments to show more profit on the books (and in turn, more bonuses for herself)?
$900m for all these 25 years of repairs and maintenance which should have been done.
Lower profits = lower tax :D:cheers5:
may i ask how to implement this? it's impossible to verify true intentions
they have to earn it through action. For e.g. serving NS.
meanwhile the distinction between citizens and PRs must be made greater.
Or hear stuff from that nearby cemetery that you shouldn't be hearing??? :scared-1:
ahaha yes theres a whole stretch of cemeteries there.
tats why those ppl who complain n complain has no foresight. they only know how to vent their anger becos it affect their convenient and crash their ideal cheap home dream but yet they also want their house to sell high high to foreigner when is teir turn to SELL :doh:
Indeed,
Singaporeans complain about HDB selling at almost $1mil now.
But when HDB resale is cheap and low, they will complain that they not earning money from selling their flats. :doh:
Wild Falcon
25-04-12, 10:49
Total rubbish. So many Asian countries have TFR at the same levels at the lows of 1. Don't see them importing foreign "talents" by the truckloads or else country will collapse. Seriously, who cares about population decline 13 years later? By 13 years later, our population would have reached 6-7 million, by then it might be good news to reduce it slightly. And if TFR is low and we worried about aging population, shouldn't we be importing babies? If we import middle-aged 40-year-old adult (which we are), aren't we worsening the aging population more? Because 20 years later, these 40 year old will be 60 year old liao. Or our govt telling us foreigners are so talented they don't grow old? And our poor young gotch more old people (including foreign old people) to support.
Total rubbish spin.
there's still lots of space around pasir ris/seng kang/punggol area that's undeveloped, fyi
we are still nowhere near tokyo's kind of density
Yes, i once read. even HOUGANG is only 50-60% used. Sengkang and punggol got many many plots of land.
Total rubbish. So many Asian countries have TFR at the same levels at the lows of 1. Don't see them importing foreign "talents" by the truckloads or else country will collapse. Seriously, who cares about population decline 13 years later? By 13 years later, our population would have reached 6-7 million, by then it might be good news to reduce it slightly. And if TFR is low and we worried about aging population, shouldn't we be importing babies? If we import middle-aged 40-year-old adult (which we are), aren't we worsening the aging population more? Because 20 years later, these 40 year old will be 60 year old liao. Or our govt telling us foreigners are so talented they don't grow old? And our poor young gotch more old people (including foreign old people) to support.
Total rubbish spin.
Bro, but if we don't keep up the numbers, Singapore's economy will be hurt cause of aging population.
Simple illustration:
Say 100 ppl, 20 are old and not working and another 20 are kids. the remaining 60 are working adults.
By 2025, these 20 who were old are still old or dead and the 60 who were working are now old and retired. The 20 who were kids are not supporting the 60 old ones and 20 who were old or dead. with probably about 10 new kids only.
The replacement of the jobs held by the 60 working adults are replaced by 20 kids? that's not possible right? Companies will have problem running.
Indeed,
Singaporeans complain about HDB selling at almost $1mil now.
But when HDB resale is cheap and low, they will complain that they not earning money from selling their flats. :doh:Different group of complainers... last time was the HDB owners complaining. Now its the first time buyers complaining coz those HDB owners now sell high and moved on to PC liao... :cheers5:
Indeed,
Singaporeans complain about HDB selling at almost $1mil now.
But when HDB resale is cheap and low, they will complain that they not earning money from selling their flats. :doh:
I suggest every singaporean family can have 2 HDBs, sell one and still have a roof..if not sell high, buy high or downgrade (size or location):p this is foresight? ha ha
Total rubbish. So many Asian countries have TFR at the same levels at the lows of 1. Don't see them importing foreign "talents" by the truckloads or else country will collapse. Seriously, who cares about population decline 13 years later? By 13 years later, our population would have reached 6-7 million, by then it might be good news to reduce it slightly. And if TFR is low and we worried about aging population, shouldn't we be importing babies? If we import middle-aged 40-year-old adult (which we are), aren't we worsening the aging population more? Because 20 years later, these 40 year old will be 60 year old liao. Or our govt telling us foreigners are so talented they don't grow old? And our poor young gotch more old people (including foreign old people) to support.
Total rubbish spin.
the scholars and researchers will come out study, report evry now and then....like the previous respectable prof who mentioned an overhaul in wages...:p now any update on this?
I suggest every singaporean family can have 2 HDBs, sell one and still have a roof..if not sell high, buy high or downgrade (size or location):p this is foresight? ha ha
haha i will keep both for rental yield and stay in a small PC. KBW will need to build many many new BTOS
Indeed,
Singaporeans complain about HDB selling at almost $1mil now.
But when HDB resale is cheap and low, they will complain that they not earning money from selling their flats. :doh:
If Singaporeans' attitude is like that, the future of Singapore as a nation is a question mark. There are many countries a lot worse off than Singapore and worse to live and work in compared to Singapore. Our citizens do not appreciate enough the benefits of living in Singapore. We have clean streets, clean water, heavily subsidized eduction and Govt is willing to subsidize citizens to get started on property ownership. Complaining is non-productive. They have to get their act together and upgrade themselves, go seek out opportunities rather than whining in the forums.
And the Govt cannot simply implement new policies as knee-jerk reaction to quell voter discontent. It must have a beneficial long-term effect.
Why assume the government choose 25K/yr ? I tot got 15K and 20K? And what if they choose to have 25k new citizen per year but drop 15K FW per year? I think the study should cover both citizen and non-citizen population growth.....
Bro, but if we don't keep up the numbers, Singapore's economy will be hurt cause of aging population.
Simple illustration:
Say 100 ppl, 20 are old and not working and another 20 are kids. the remaining 60 are working adults.
By 2025, these 20 who were old are still old or dead and the 60 who were working are now old and retired. The 20 who were kids are not supporting the 60 old ones and 20 who were old or dead. with probably about 10 new kids only.
The replacement of the jobs held by the 60 working adults are replaced by 20 kids? that's not possible right? Companies will have problem running.
This is One of the many solutions only...what is the real concern and root cause?
the real concern is Sgrean dont want to give high birth rate..how many children most families have? But to solve the concern is to take A real HARD look to find out the root causes of the birth rate problem and ADMIT that Drastic ACTION is needed for Drastic problem since it is so serious...FIND out why people shun to have more children and u may open cans of worms? NOT easy to do it ...take time and resources to do it..so it is easy to just open gate ma...:p my 2 cents...
ask ourselves, why not have 3 or 4 or 5 children? he he we know the answer you think the cream of the crop doesnt know??
haha i will keep both for rental yield and stay in a small PC. KBW will need to build many many new BTOS
the CM will be to own 2 HDBs need to have 5 children in order to do what u mentioned... WAHAHAHa:D
If Singaporeans' attitude is like that, the future of Singapore as a nation is a question mark. There are many countries a lot worse off than Singapore and worse to live and work in compared to Singapore. Our citizens do not appreciate enough the benefits of living in Singapore. We have clean streets, clean water, heavily subsidized eduction and Govt is willing to subsidize citizens to get started on property ownership. Complaining is non-productive. They have to get their act together and upgrade themselves, go seek out opportunities rather than whining in the forums.
And the Govt cannot simply implement new policies as knee-jerk reaction to quell voter discontent. It must have a beneficial long-term effect.
that is one big reason why foreigners flock to here..I mean FLOCK really..if the gate is not close tight enough (see some foreigners wrote in strait times forum saying that other countries are worse and why Sg complains with some minor problems such as public transport issue) ..well, I beg to differ that as this is our relentless pursue of perfection(complaints as invaluable feedback) that leads us to everything in first class staNdard n this is ONe of the VERY reasons that most foreigners choose to come here and work, if not, they might as well stay put in their motherland,...
And to protect our assets(I mean those tangibles and intangibles) that we have built up in generation, it is not wrong that need to choose the best N suitable ones to reside here and at the same time, boost our birthrate...(theory... easy say than done but still possible with mammoth resources...:p )
If Singaporeans' attitude is like that, the future of Singapore as a nation is a question mark. There are many countries a lot worse off than Singapore and worse to live and work in compared to Singapore. Our citizens do not appreciate enough the benefits of living in Singapore. We have clean streets, clean water, heavily subsidized eduction and Govt is willing to subsidize citizens to get started on property ownership. Complaining is non-productive. They have to get their act together and upgrade themselves, go seek out opportunities rather than whining in the forums.
And the Govt cannot simply implement new policies as knee-jerk reaction to quell voter discontent. It must have a beneficial long-term effect.
are u sure our citizens do not appreciate this country?
do not confuse the country with the govt and with the ruling party.
and where is the voter discontent? a 60% mandate is extremely healthy and almost unheard of in the most healthy functioning democracies and advanced nations.
Rosegarden
25-04-12, 11:54
the scholars and researchers will come out study, report evry now and then....like the previous respectable prof who mentioned an overhaul in wages...:p now any update on this?
Ho Kwon Ping speaking his mind on the proposal:
http://sghardtruth.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/wage-fixes-need-to-be-sector-specific-by-ho-kwon-ping/
Total rubbish. So many Asian countries have TFR at the same levels at the lows of 1. Don't see them importing foreign "talents" by the truckloads or else country will collapse. Seriously, who cares about population decline 13 years later? By 13 years later, our population would have reached 6-7 million, by then it might be good news to reduce it slightly. And if TFR is low and we worried about aging population, shouldn't we be importing babies? If we import middle-aged 40-year-old adult (which we are), aren't we worsening the aging population more? Because 20 years later, these 40 year old will be 60 year old liao. Or our govt telling us foreigners are so talented they don't grow old? And our poor young gotch more old people (including foreign old people) to support.
Total rubbish spin.
SUPER LIKE........
Ho Kwon Ping speaking his mind on the proposal:
http://sghardtruth.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/wage-fixes-need-to-be-sector-specific-by-ho-kwon-ping/
Now I know why the thread title is HO say liao. He just said it liao...
Brudder, you got it!...as you say, TOTALLY rubbish SPIN.
We cannot go on expanding the population base...it's just not sustainable.
Can't imagine how these 'scholars' can support such flawed reasoning.
We peaked in births in 1966 ...so of course the 'demographic triangle' will be re-shaped. If we always want an ever (increasing) base, then at some point we'll have people falling into the sea.
Total rubbish. So many Asian countries have TFR at the same levels at the lows of 1. Don't see them importing foreign "talents" by the truckloads or else country will collapse. Seriously, who cares about population decline 13 years later? By 13 years later, our population would have reached 6-7 million, by then it might be good news to reduce it slightly. And if TFR is low and we worried about aging population, shouldn't we be importing babies? If we import middle-aged 40-year-old adult (which we are), aren't we worsening the aging population more? Because 20 years later, these 40 year old will be 60 year old liao. Or our govt telling us foreigners are so talented they don't grow old? And our poor young gotch more old people (including foreign old people) to support.
Total rubbish spin.
err...the scholars are not so stupid as you think...25K new citizens each year means 25K new voters per yr as well. Will new citizens bite the hand that feeds them?
err...the scholars are not so stupid as you think...25K new citizens each year means 25K new voters per yr as well. Will new citizens bite the hand that feeds them?
nope. :D
.............
This immigration reminds me of blood transfusion. Soon our nation will be filled with new blood.Maybe by the year 2100, we can apply to be part of China.:)
Expected, tap has to be open and its now in the news to prep citizens.
Property owners! HUAT ah!!!!! Rental UP UP UP ah..... (In the style of the many gor tai around the heartlands during this period)
This immigration reminds me of blood transfusion. Soon our nation will be filled with new blood.Maybe by the year 2100, we can apply to be part of China.:)
I swore they knew something we dont when one of the seniors in my UK university summer camp said - oh you from Singapore? Where in China is that?
You are also correct, brudder.
They will continue to vote pro-govt until even newer citizens start to display them/their kids. Then how?
err...the scholars are not so stupid as you think...25K new citizens each year means 25K new voters per yr as well. Will new citizens bite the hand that feeds them?
very good what, just remain as PR lor haha.Well my PR colleague contributed greatly to the Singapore economy by setting his family here. He brought his parents over too. He has rented in our country these last decade or more and contributed couple of hundred thousand dollars into our economy in rent. Just don't understand what is the standard requirements for approving citizenship. I told him his timing was simply wrong lah... last year was the GE year and FT/FW was one very pertinent issue raised... :rolleyes:
Indeed,
Singaporeans complain about HDB selling at almost $1mil now.
But when HDB resale is cheap and low, they will complain that they not earning money from selling their flats. :doh:
One word to describe - 贱!
We should embrace new citizens. We should marry their daughters and adopt their kids when they pass away. If Brangelina can do it so can we...
Its a masterful stroke actually. Imagine, every 4 yrs, there will be a 100K pool of new supporters that can be placed in any area they like.
Its a masterful stroke actually. Imagine, every 4 yrs, there will be a 100K pool of new supporters that can be placed in any area they like.Good news indeed for property investors. :cheers5:
One word to describe - 贱!
Not correct leh. Should be 贪 or
又贱又贪 :D
You are also correct, brudder.
They will continue to vote pro-govt until even newer citizens start to display them/their kids. Then how?
Read this...
If I am granted a Singapore citizenship, can it be revoked by Singapore government later?
Yes, the government has the right to revoke your application. This can happen for example if you submitted false documents or facts in your application which later were discovered by authorities. Normally, this will happen in serious cases only such as failing to declare past convictions. You could end-up being a stateless person in such cases since you would have already lost your previous citizenship.
Actually, there is no change...Singapore has always been a Trading Post and Immigrant friendly.
The difference now is SG is one of the highest density countries in the world.
Add to that, we are also the Regional Maid Training Centre with our levies and lower nett salaries for the maids.
There will be positive impact on the property market.
By stating these number outright, market is able to anticipate and make adjustments to cater to these numbers.
DKSG
Is this a precursor for next announcement that govt will now stop new BTOs and GLS now that the new citizens are gonna be coming to soak up the excesses? Maybe no more talk of flood of units coming in 2014 etc etc?
Its a masterful stroke actually. Imagine, every 4 yrs, there will be a 100K pool of new supporters that can be placed in any area they like.
LIKE!!!!! Starting to imagine Lemmings game where they will go/drop/fall to their death wherever I want them to...
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1079513/1/.html
Government encourages more Singapore PRs to take up citizenship
By Imelda Saad | Posted: 06 September 2010 2323 hrs
SINGAPORE: The Singapore Government is moving to encourage more Permanent Residents in the country to take up citizenship.
Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong said some PRs will be approached to become citizens and if they don't do so, their status will not be renewed.
Immigration was one of many issues tackled during a dialogue session with over 200 residents from Marine Parade to gather feedback on the Prime Minister's National Day Rally.
SM Goh did not give details on getting PRs to take up citizenship.
"Moving forward, we are going to approach some of them to take up Singapore citizenship, if they don't then their PR will not be renewed. That's a better way.
"We now have quite a few PRs, 500,000 in Singapore, so hopefully maybe 50,000 can be selected to become Singapore citizens, the rest can be PRs, contributing to Singapore's economy," he said.
SM Goh was responding to a suggestion from a participant who said Employment Pass holders should take up citizenship which he believed will discourage foreign talents from working in Singapore.
Besides, SM Goh pointed out that Employment Pass holders serve as buffers where their numbers can be reduced during a downturn.
Another radical suggestion put forward was to bar foreigners from buying private property but SM Goh noted developers would just build more high-rise private apartments to counter it.
"At the moment, our policy will be, condominium, private sector. They want to buy, let them buy because they actually bring in money for Singapore. They may not actually stay there but they bring in money.
"They buy from locals, locals are happy to get the money but it's not actually adding to space. In fact, that's actually ideal. They buy here, they don't drive cars, they don't live here, we just get their money! They're buying air!" laughed SM Goh.
Did ESM actually say that then? SUPER LIKE lei!!!!!!!!!! Esp the part about buying air wa power
How can we compare w Japan. Japan is so rich and probably they still can sustain without foreigner. But on long term view japan will decline if they don change their mind set. Let's be realistic, if our population continue to shrink with low birth rate how can we remIn competitive n continue our growth. We will be back to kampong life. I support bringing in foreigner but govt must also study all possible problem will arise and to ensure such problem are well managed. In fact now ppl complain abt foreigner becos govt did not manage the problem the foreigner brought in like transport, housing. Not really becos they don like foreigner. Not forgetting first batch of citizen are mostly from china
With that definition, then I also considered Old New Citizen as my grandparents all from China...
Well my PR colleague contributed greatly to the Singapore economy by setting his family here. He brought his parents over too. He has rented in our country these last decade or more and contributed couple of hundred thousand dollars into our economy in rent. Just don't understand what is the standard requirements for approving citizenship. I told him his timing was simply wrong lah... last year was the GE year and FT/FW was one very pertinent issue raised... :rolleyes:
i think words like 'contribution' and 'talent' have been thoroughly abused by the mainstream lexicon of this country.
Just by living here and working and incurring the necessary living expenses or paying taxes dont count as contributing. Contributing has to be significant.
i think words like 'contribution' and 'talent' have been thoroughly abused by the mainstream lexicon of this country.
Just by living here and working and incurring the necessary living expenses or paying taxes dont count as contributing. Contributing has to be significant.
what is the threshold of significance?
what is the threshold of significance?
national service
national service
how about female??
national service
that's all?! one of our dear MPs dr J didn't serve NS but he's a citizen and now even an MP.
so, how?
what is the threshold of significance?
Married here and give birth to half to a dozen of children just like the old kampung days. :D:D:D
Wild Falcon
25-04-12, 14:56
Wrong lah. We are ADDING FT adults together with their parents (not babies) leh. So we are adding another 20 FT adults who will become old by 2025. So end up with 120 people with only 20 kids (who subsequently become adult).
By 2025, 20 working adults to support 100 old people (including 20 FT) = > lagi worse. If our govt worried about aging population, they shouldn't be taking in more adults in the workforce because it exacebates the problem and cause overcrowding. Period.
Unless you tell me confirm FT WILL give birth to 2 kids (and confirm Singaporean) each which I dont think so. Maybe next time the criteria for citrizenship is that they have to give birth to minimal 3 children here. Haha.
Bro, but if we don't keep up the numbers, Singapore's economy will be hurt cause of aging population.
Simple illustration:
Say 100 ppl, 20 are old and not working and another 20 are kids. the remaining 60 are working adults.
By 2025, these 20 who were old are still old or dead and the 60 who were working are now old and retired. The 20 who were kids are not supporting the 60 old ones and 20 who were old or dead. with probably about 10 new kids only.
The replacement of the jobs held by the 60 working adults are replaced by 20 kids? that's not possible right? Companies will have problem running.
Wrong lah. We are ADDING FT adults together with their parents (not babies) leh. So we are adding another 20 FT adults who will become old by 2025. So end up with 120 people with only 20 kids (who subsequently become adult).
By 2025, 20 working adults to support 100 old people (including 20 FT) = > lagi worse. If our govt worried about aging population, they shouldn't be taking in more adults in the workforce because it exacebates the problem and cause overcrowding. Period.
Unless you tell me confirm FT WILL give birth to 2 kids (and confirm Singaporean) each which I dont think so. Maybe next time the criteria for citrizenship is that they have to give birth to minimal 3 children here. Haha.
wah.....me think it's like importing hamsters or cows to breed and propagate:D
Go forth and multiply!!!!
what's sungei gedong compared with tengah airbase? didn't KBW mention about developing that area into another HDB town?
everyday can hear band music and the droning of F4s
I think you meant F15 SG and F16s?
Singapore no have F4s, be it the boy band or the fighter jets :tsk-tsk:
Actually adding 25k new citizens have a zero net effect on housing if the overall population does not increase...
The last I read SIN has 5.18m.... let see if the next report show any increase..... if they increase SIN population (minus foreign unskilled labour) by 50k a year, then we will need at least 12k housing units a year... plus another 25k marriage... assuming only half buy their own place.... another 12k housing... so total almost 25k housing units needed....
Current building quota is 25k HDB and 15k private.... we still have 15k spare..... this is to make up for the shortfall in the last ten years whereby we underbuild by 15k per year.....
So need the next 8-10 years to clear backlog.....
That is why all showflats are full!!!!!!
Actually adding 25k new citizens have a zero net effect on housing if the overall population does not increase...
The last I read SIN has 5.18m.... let see if the next report show any increase..... if they increase SIN population (minus foreign unskilled labour) by 50k a year, then we will need at least 12k housing units a year... plus another 25k marriage... assuming only half buy their own place.... another 12k housing... so total almost 25k housing units needed....
Current building quota is 25k HDB and 15k private.... we still have 15k spare..... this is to make up for the shortfall in the last ten years whereby we underbuild by 15k per year.....
So need the next 8-10 years to clear backlog.....
That is why all showflats are full!!!!!!
Yep, agree with you to a certain extent. If the 25K new citizens are from the existing pool of PRs and total population does not increase at all, then it probably won't make a dent in the market.
My gut feel is that it will be a combination i.e. some from the pool of PRs + new 'walk-in' customers. Hence total population will still increase but not at such a high rate.
In any case, if they can really increase the voting populace by 25K per year. all our griping over the overcrowding, housing and tpt woes will fall on deaf ears as these complainers will become the minority faction over time.
what is the threshold of significance?\
Real talent lah. Min salary $8k den can get PR & citizenship. Less than $8k not real talent. In Australia for instance, any foreigner who wants to work there need to be of a certain income threshold, which is much much higher than SG.
I read the paper on population. Its only 9 pg long. Any decent paper on population has got to discuss the desired population size, breaking it down into citizens, PRs and foreigners levels. By not discussing these & releasing only a 9 pg paper embarassingly short of details, the scholars obviously think singaporeans are draft.
actually what's the purpose of gov releasing this paper ... ? to invite debate ? (like that 40% pay rise idea)... or to test water to see what the reaction of the general public is ?
\
Real talent lah. Min salary $8k den can get PR & citizenship. Less than $8k not real talent. In Australia for instance, any foreigner who wants to work there need to be of a certain income threshold, which is much much higher than SG.
I read the paper on population. Its only 9 pg long. Any decent paper on population has got to discuss the desired population size, breaking it down into citizens, PRs and foreigners levels. By not discussing these & releasing only a 9 pg paper embarassingly short of details, the scholars obviously think singaporeans are draft.
different stakeholders have different definition of 'significance'. going by your criteria, are we going to accept all FTs who will potentially compete with local PMETs for middle management jobs? to someone who's job may not be threatened, it will be insignificant.
as the saying goes, the devil is in the details.
actually what's the purpose of gov releasing this paper ... ? to invite debate ? (like that 40% pay rise idea)... or to test water to see what the reaction of the general public is ?
isn't the bukit brown saga clear enough? 1st, invite different stakeholders for consultation. 2nd, 'engage' stakeholders to hear them out. lastly, just a smokescreen to announce what had already been decided eons ago.
my take, a PR exercise to inform the public that without immigrants & FTs, we will be in deep s*!@
Wild Falcon
25-04-12, 16:16
Shouldn't be based on pay scale. Based on the needs of the country. For instance, we have an oversupply of business grads in SG. We don't need to import another bunch of business degree holders or MBA to work in our FI. But Singapore as a country is seriously lacking in some blue collar jobs, e.g. car mechanic, electricians etc.
\
Real talent lah. Min salary $8k den can get PR & citizenship. Less than $8k not real talent. In Australia for instance, any foreigner who wants to work there need to be of a certain income threshold, which is much much higher than SG.
I read the paper on population. Its only 9 pg long. Any decent paper on population has got to discuss the desired population size, breaking it down into citizens, PRs and foreigners levels. By not discussing these & releasing only a 9 pg paper embarassingly short of details, the scholars obviously think singaporeans are draft.
different stakeholders have different definition of 'significance'. going by your criteria, are we going to accept all FTs who will potentially compete with local PMETs for middle management jobs? to someone who's job may not be threatened, it will be insignificant.
as the saying goes, the devil is in the details.
Through the ministerial pay debate, Govt has defined 'talent' via salary numbers. $8k is a decent level of "talent". $8k is but an arbitrary no. It can be $6k, $8k, $10k or $15k.
The fact of the matter is, it is better to grant PR to 'talent' earning $8k and above, rather than the current policy which grants PR to people earning $4k. Now, the current policy is the one that's really threatening white collar jobs. If you think $8k is too low, you can raise the bar to S$15k. There shouldnt be much debate that $15k is 'talent' right?
Shouldn't be based on pay scale. Based on the needs of the country. For instance, we have an oversupply of business grads in SG. We don't need to import another bunch of business degree holders or MBA to work in our FI. But Singapore as a country is seriously lacking in some blue collar jobs, e.g. car mechanic, electricians etc.Totally agreed.... cannot merely based on salary... but this is a very practical society so govt merely look at it this way. :scared-5:
Through the ministerial pay debate, Govt has defined 'talent' via salary numbers. $8k is a decent level of "talent". $8k is but an arbitrary no. It can be $6k, $8k, $10k or $15k.
The fact of the matter is, it is better to grant PR to 'talent' earning $8k and above, rather than the current policy which grants PR to people earning $4k. Now, the current policy is the one that's really threatening white collar jobs. If you think $8k is too low, you can raise the bar to S$15k. There shouldnt be much debate that $15k is 'talent' right?
i would go with what WildFalcon has stated - what Singapore actually needs. Personally, I don't think earning above a certain pay bracket constitutes to whether one is a talent or not. I believe a monetary standard is set for ease of quantifying. Hence, I'd say go for a point-based system.
Does Singapore suffer a lack of talent in that $15k/mth pay bracket? Not sure, probably depends on the vocation. Does Singapore suffer a lack of (for sake of illustration) nurses in the $2-3k/mth pay bracket? Yes for sure.
I believe we all agree that we don't need to import 'talents' that are readily available in Singapore.
Through the ministerial pay debate, Govt has defined 'talent' via salary numbers. $8k is a decent level of "talent". $8k is but an arbitrary no. It can be $6k, $8k, $10k or $15k.
The fact of the matter is, it is better to grant PR to 'talent' earning $8k and above, rather than the current policy which grants PR to people earning $4k. Now, the current policy is the one that's really threatening white collar jobs. If you think $8k is too low, you can raise the bar to S$15k. There shouldnt be much debate that $15k is 'talent' right?$8k income is already the top 50% of Singaporeans' salary. Getting these people in basically imply that Singaporeans who are earning less are not given the opportunity to fill those vacancies, i.e. poor Singaporeans remain poor. PRs come in and take their promotional opportunities... :rolleyes:
I think you meant F15 SG and F16s?
Singapore no have F4s, be it the boy band or the fighter jets :tsk-tsk:
I think he was referring to the A4 Skyhawk which has since been decommissioned.
i would go with what WildFalcon has stated - what Singapore actually needs. Personally, I don't think earning above a certain pay bracket constitutes to whether one is a talent or not. I believe a monetary standard is set for ease of quantifying. Hence, I'd say go for a point-based system.
Does Singapore suffer a lack of talent in that $15k/mth pay bracket? Not sure, probably depends on the vocation. Does Singapore suffer a lack of (for sake of illustration) nurses in the $2-3k/mth pay bracket? Yes for sure.
I believe we all agree that we don't need to import 'talents' that are readily available in Singapore.
I think we need 'foreign worker' nurses, not 'PR & new citizen' nurses. PR & new citizens criteria should be set high, while foreign workers criteria can be calibrated according to industry.
Singapore's problem is both 'foreign workers' and 'PR & new citizens' criterias are set far too low for an advanced economy. Lim Chong Yah is right, but our govt ministers are the "steady the ship" kind, who are incapable of making the required changes. We lack 'entreprenuerial ministers' of the Old Guard.
Lim's proposal was brushed aside without challenging the details. Releasing a flippant 9 pg paper speaks volumes of the incumbent's respect for the electorate.
isn't the bukit brown saga clear enough? 1st, invite different stakeholders for consultation. 2nd, 'engage' stakeholders to hear them out. lastly, just a smokescreen to announce what had already been decided eons ago.
my take, a PR exercise to inform the public that without immigrants & FTs, we will be in deep s*!@
This issue I quite blur but if I apply the "productivity" drive our govt is so fond of pushing and stats year by year keep showing we are getting more for less, then shouldn't we be ok even with a static and/or slightly declining population? Where did all the productivity gains go to?
This issue I quite blur but if I apply the "productivity" drive our govt is so fond of pushing and stats year by year keep showing we are getting more for less, then shouldn't we be ok even with a static and/or slightly declining population? Where did all the productivity gains go to?
these are two issues - productivity of a labourer isn't exactly population replacement.
these are two issues - productivity of a labourer isn't exactly population replacement.
I wonder which quality prospective immigrant would risk it all, come live in Singapore to receive high stress, high cost, high inflation, etc. In the papers a couple of days ago, there was an article about reverse migration where 2nd gen US citizens are returning to their ancestral homes as opportunities there are better than in the US. In the BT yesterday, an article talked about how hard it is for the construction sector to attract and retain construction workers from traditional sources. Given all these challenges, who would come? Maybe our govt is giving a signal to distressed European countries with high unemployment like Spain, Greece, etc. If like that...big integration problems ahead.
We need a strong army. Sad but true, we need new citizens to have children who can serve NS...
I think he was referring to the A4 Skyhawk which has since been decommissioned.
Still flying in France.
http://youtu.be/8P-sUomqn5M
buttercarp
26-04-12, 08:49
$8k income is already the top 50% of Singaporeans' salary.
Really?
$4k and below is considered financially handicapped, $8k considered the median?
I did not the gap is so narrow.
Rosegarden
26-04-12, 09:46
Really?
$4k and below is considered financially handicapped, $8k considered the median?
I did not the gap is so narrow.
Maybe referring to the household income.
The median income in 2011 was 3,249, while the mean income was 4,334.
source: http://www.mom.gov.sg/statistics-publications/national-labour-market-information/statistics/Pages/earnings-wages.aspx
The median household income was 7,040.
source: http://www.singstat.gov.sg/news/news/press14022012.pdf
I'm just wondering whatever happened to the "encourage more birth" initiative. Gov gave up already ?
I'm just wondering whatever happened to the "encourage more birth" initiative. Gov gave up already ?
ROI for local production is too low. Cheaper to import.;)
Free 1 bto flat for every child produced. :cool:
Really?
$4k and below is considered financially handicapped, $8k considered the median?
I did not the gap is so narrow.$4k considered financially handicapped by whom?
Maybe referring to the household income.
The median income in 2011 was 3,249, while the mean income was 4,334.
source: http://www.mom.gov.sg/statistics-publications/national-labour-market-information/statistics/Pages/earnings-wages.aspx
The median household income was 7,040.
source: http://www.singstat.gov.sg/news/news/press14022012.pdfThank you for clarifying.. I'm v sure $8k income places the person at the top 50% income earners in Singapore. :)
confirm dont have to worry about rental yield...plenty of FT to rent from you..;)
Rosegarden
26-04-12, 14:28
Thank you for clarifying.. I'm v sure $8k income places the person at the top 50% income earners in Singapore. :)
Q1 Employment pass min salary $3k
P2 $4.5k
P1 $8k
Can guess roughly where they will be seeking accomodation. But does anyone know whether the gov publishes statistics on the number of each type of EPs given out?
I'm just wondering whatever happened to the "encourage more birth" initiative. Gov gave up already ?
After LKY cry the second time, gov decided to import. The reason could be it take 18 years to know how the kid develop, 2 years of NS if it a boy, 3 years if the kid is going Uni. It easier to import what you want for the industry than to wait 20+ years than they say they going oversea.
After LKY cry the second time, gov decided to import. The reason could be it take 18 years to know how the kid develop, 2 years of NS if it a boy, 3 years if the kid is going Uni. It easier to import what you want for the industry than to wait 20+ years than they say they going oversea.
taking a leaf frm recent series on tv
OUTSOURCED.SG
After LKY cry the second time, gov decided to import. The reason could be it take 18 years to know how the kid develop, 2 years of NS if it a boy, 3 years if the kid is going Uni. It easier to import what you want for the industry than to wait 20+ years than they say they going oversea.
Quite true. If the weather is hot, do you want to plant a fully grown tree for shade or plant a seed and add water and fertiliser everyday?
After LKY cry the second time, gov decided to import. The reason could be it take 18 years to know how the kid develop, 2 years of NS if it a boy, 3 years if the kid is going Uni. It easier to import what you want for the industry than to wait 20+ years than they say they going oversea.
I'm in favor of importing. I think it's inevitable. If SG ever wants to be the New York of the East.
But we should not abandon the pro family efforts. The baby bonus scheme is really so insignificant it's not even a serious try.
I'm in favor of importing. I think it's inevitable. If SG ever wants to be the New York of the East.
But we should not abandon the pro family efforts. The baby bonus scheme is really so insignificant it's not even a serious try.
The critical issues like low birth rate, unreliable public transport, lack of insurance scheme for the under-privileged groups, and care for the old people living in rented apartments or old folks home are still not settled yet (Why still have $5 billion to give to other countries?). Allowing immigrants in large number again so soon will stir problems and anger. I don't think Singapore is ready for that.
Really?
$4k and below is considered financially handicapped, $8k considered the median?
I did not the gap is so narrow.
8k should be close to top 20% personal income.
Do both......
Quite true. If the weather is hot, do you want to plant a fully grown tree for shade or plant a seed and add water and fertiliser everyday?
An immigrant, if he could afford it, would return to China every few years. In his perambulations he would keep his eyes open for a desirable burial-plot, a knoll commanding a good view, and auspicious according to the laws of geomancy. For we did not mind being men of Nanyang, but that dying, we would hate to be ghosts of Nanyang. If we prospered, we would pile up money in China in order to renovate the ancestral graves and the ancestral homes, to redeem the ancestral fields and add to them … so that men might know we were somebody
http://illegalimmigrationfacts.org/immigration-singapore/
I'm in favor of importing. I think it's inevitable. If SG ever wants to be the New York of the East.
But we should not abandon the pro family efforts. The baby bonus scheme is really so insignificant it's not even a serious try.
Every time they announce extra bonuses. The child care centres announce a fee hike. That negates their attempts.
I think they are better prepared this time to welcome the 25k immigrants. Just look at the GLS, NSE, Marina Expressway, new mrt lines, 800 buses, new hospitals, land to build/expand international schools, incentives to up the pool of child care teachers, etc. The infrastructure is being prep for one big welcome party. Already papers today are saying Frenchies are moving to Asia to take advantage of the growth. Many more Europeans are doing likewise since Europe is in the doldrums. Get ready for the big tsumani.
[quote=insigina]I think they are better prepared this time to welcome the 25k immigrants. Just look at the GLS, NSE, Marina Expressway, new mrt lines, 800 buses, new hospitals, land to build/expand international schools, incentives to up the pool of child care teachers, etc. The infrastructure is being prep for one big welcome party. Already papers today are saying Frenchies are moving to Asia to take advantage of the growth. Many more Europeans are doing likewise since Europe is in the doldrums. Get ready for the big tsumani.
Oh and I forgot to add, the psychological brainwash of citizens to accept the new normal has just started, if you did not notice
Rental cheong?
yes so buy buy buy and rent rent rent:cheers1:
I think they are better prepared this time to welcome the 25k immigrants. Just look at the GLS, NSE, Marina Expressway, new mrt lines, 800 buses, new hospitals, land to build/expand international schools, incentives to up the pool of child care teachers, etc. The infrastructure is being prep for one big welcome party. Already papers today are saying Frenchies are moving to Asia to take advantage of the growth. Many more Europeans are doing likewise since Europe is in the doldrums. Get ready for the big tsumani.
To think that most people thinks that their vote last May has woken up the government that we DO NOT want more migrants in our crowded city!
DKSG
To think that most people thinks that their vote last May has woken up the government that we DO NOT want more migrants in our crowded city!
DKSG
The frustration last May was because our infrastructure did not keep pace with foreigner intake. So now govt is catching up and hope that by developing infrastructure to previously neglected places eg; Punggol, Pasir Ris, JLD, etc, the "high visibility" of foreigners will be lesser and people will have a sense of "space". Trouble is they are doing all this at a time of super high inflation which creates a whole new set of problems. This new set of problems are more difficult to manage and so you now see them throw up new jargon such as "inclusiveness"...
Let's see how this new set of problems, (social & economic) are going to affect them in 2016.
To think that most people thinks that their vote last May has woken up the government that we DO NOT want more migrants in our crowded city!
DKSG
Let's postulate a slightly different scenario.
What if there wasn't "Curry-gate"?
What if there wasn't a "Sun Xu" incident"
What if the foreigners who bashed up a local driver didn't jump bail?
What if Ionescu was jailed?
What if these new immigrants chose to integrate into our society instead of sticking to their cliquish norms?
Would we think of them in a more positive light?
look at the fallout
http://www.facebook.com/FabricationsAboutThePAP/posts/223582711076267
Those thinking that all the GLS will lead to excess supply in 2014-15 should think again. The excess supply will be soaked up by the 25k, not to mention once the 10% ABSD is lifted, there will be a flood of pent-up foreign demand. Why is Capitaland (partly govt vested) building D'Leedon and Sky Habitat with big units, the latter costing $3 mil for 4 bedder in Bishan which developer is happily leaving them largely unsold??? Damn...should think of buying one unit in one of these 2 developments.
8k should be close to top 20% personal income.
8k is top 8%.
80th percentile is $5,000
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/1F4B0EB4-4350-4672-B57B-AAF9D1801FC1/0/Budget2011_MOMPressRelease.pdf
50th percentile (median) is $2,925
http://mom.gov.sg/statistics-publications/national-labour-market-information/statistics/Pages/earnings-wages.aspx
Those thinking that all the GLS will lead to excess supply in 2014-15 should think again. The excess supply will be soaked up by the 25k, not to mention once the 10% ABSD is lifted, there will be a flood of pent-up foreign demand. Why is Capitaland (partly govt vested) building D'Leedon and Sky Habitat with big units, the latter costing $3 mil for 4 bedder in Bishan which developer is happily leaving them largely unsold??? Damn...should think of buying one unit in one of these 2 developments.
The signs are there......release of GLS, plots of land for international schools, more roads/MRT lines.....looks like we have to brace ourselves for influx.....ABSD is to prevent things from getting out of control once we let them in.
The frustration last May was because our infrastructure did not keep pace with foreigner intake. So now govt is catching up and hope that by developing infrastructure to previously neglected places eg; Punggol, Pasir Ris, JLD, etc, the "high visibility" of foreigners will be lesser and people will have a sense of "space". Trouble is they are doing all this at a time of super high inflation which creates a whole new set of problems. This new set of problems are more difficult to manage and so you now see them throw up new jargon such as "inclusiveness"...
Let's see how this new set of problems, (social & economic) are going to affect them in 2016.
Its a difficult balance. But I agree with you. If the infrastructure is better built, and foreigners are well brain washed to live similar to our lifestyle (some differences are acceptable as we are already a multi-racial community), I think that can be done and property prices will see further appreciation.
DKSG
8k is top 8%.
80th percentile is $5,000
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/1F4B0EB4-4350-4672-B57B-AAF9D1801FC1/0/Budget2011_MOMPressRelease.pdf
50th percentile (median) is $2,925
http://mom.gov.sg/statistics-publications/national-labour-market-information/statistics/Pages/earnings-wages.aspx
The way to look at this is : the new migrants are all within the top 10% ! And what happens to citizens like myself who is currently in the 30th%? If they add another 10% to the top, I get pushed downwards to be become the 40th% !!!
Those with kids in school would have known this. So last time, maybe I can afford a PC, but after they pushed me down to 40%, maybe I cannot afford anymore.
The more people to let in at the top, the higher our property prices will become!
Hope you guys can understand my point. Thats why many people now, regardless of race language or religion, quickly grab a condo NOW! Coz many know that once the top 10% comes in (again), our lifestyle will be downgraded.
DKSG
People always say that if Singapore let in more new immigrants, it is good for GDP and good for the ministers themselves only (because their pay & bonus linked to GDP). However, this is not true. For a country as a whole, if Singapore want to continue to prosper and reduce effects of global recession on Singapore's economy (and hence job losses during recession etc), and especially without natural resources, Singapore just need to have a critical mass of capable people to develop a much bigger service-based domestic GDP component! To achieve this, we need more capable (higher-brain power and higher income) residents in Singapore to achieve this critical mass for a bigger service-based domestic GDP. What is a good figure? I am not sure, but probably at least 12-15m population? :o
We should just make full use of Pulau Tekong, Pulau Ubin, all the islands around for housing to accomodate this population increase! Singapore need to capture a wide range of incomes from high-end jobs where the people can live in Singapore but basically doing jobs for other countries, especially the developed countries where their workers are more "lazy", their labour laws are too rigid and not favorable to employ locals and such jobs can be outsourced to high-skill workers overseas, etc. This should be the future Singapore model of growing Singapore's economy!
On the other hand, while welcoming high-end high-brain foreigners, Singapore should also have a heart to protect the low-income citizens by ensuring that those jobs that cannot be shipped out of Singapore should be reserved for citizens! E.g.? Taxi drivers, bus drivers, local transport sector basically, local service sectors like restaurants, retail shops, hotels, etc.
[quote=insigina]I think they are better prepared this time to welcome the 25k immigrants. Just look at the GLS, NSE, Marina Expressway, new mrt lines, 800 buses, new hospitals, land to build/expand international schools, incentives to up the pool of child care teachers, etc. The infrastructure is being prep for one big welcome party. Already papers today are saying Frenchies are moving to Asia to take advantage of the growth. Many more Europeans are doing likewise since Europe is in the doldrums. Get ready for the big tsumani.
Oh and I forgot to add, the psychological brainwash of citizens to accept the new normal has just started, if you did not notice
The signs are there......release of GLS, plots of land for international schools, more roads/MRT lines.....looks like we have to brace ourselves for influx.....ABSD is to prevent things from getting out of control once we let them in.
But when will all these measures actually get implemented? The signs are that 2020 is when a lot of these projects will be ready. For property prices, the key is what happens to the population numbers between now and 2020?
I am all for letting in high quality PR & new citizens who earn high incomes & are highly educated. I feel they add intelligence, diversity & vibrancy to SG society as a whole.
But I am against the half-baked foreigners (poly & dubious degrees) being offered PR unless they have deep roots in SG. eg 10-15 years in SG..... Unfortunately, I have worked with many degree holder foreigners who are the typical talk and no action type.
But when will all these measures actually get implemented? The signs are that 2020 is when a lot of these projects will be ready. For property prices, the key is what happens to the population numbers between now and 2020?
I am all for letting in high quality PR & new citizens who earn high incomes & are highly educated. I feel they add intelligence, diversity & vibrancy to SG society as a whole.
But I am against the half-baked foreigners (poly & dubious degrees) being offered PR unless they have deep roots in SG. eg 10-15 years in SG..... Unfortunately, I have worked with many degree holder foreigners who are the typical talk and no action type.
Quietly getting everything in place. I think after the next election? Or maybe after the initial high rejection rate of PRs/citizens, they may already be relaxing this stance for "selected" people. By the time we realize it, it will probably be too late. They may be slowly gradually beefing up the numbers of "new" citizens who would vote for them in future elections.
But when will all these measures actually get implemented? The signs are that 2020 is when a lot of these projects will be ready. For property prices, the key is what happens to the population numbers between now and 2020?
I am all for letting in high quality PR & new citizens who earn high incomes & are highly educated. I feel they add intelligence, diversity & vibrancy to SG society as a whole.
But I am against the half-baked foreigners (poly & dubious degrees) being offered PR unless they have deep roots in SG. eg 10-15 years in SG..... Unfortunately, I have worked with many degree holder foreigners who are the typical talk and no action type.
I agree it is good to only import all the good one. The ROI is almost immediate.
But, Sg dont want to do the lower level kind of job, then how?
I agree it is good to only import all the good one. The ROI is almost immediate.
But, Sg dont want to do the lower level kind of job, then how?
We should import those people that we are lacking of.
It is easier to get a PR in australia if you work in the service sector such as chef nowadays.
[quote=teddybear]People always say that if Singapore let in more new immigrants, it is good for GDP and good for the ministers themselves only (because their pay & bonus linked to GDP). However, this is not true. For a country as a whole, if Singapore want to continue to prosper and reduce effects of global recession on Singapore's economy (and hence job losses during recession etc), and especially without natural resources, Singapore just need to have a critical mass of capable people to develop a much bigger service-based domestic GDP component! To achieve this, we need more capable (higher-brain power and higher income) residents in Singapore to achieve this critical mass for a bigger service-based domestic GDP. What is a good figure? I am not sure, but probably at least 12-15m population? :o
We should just make full use of Pulau Tekong, Pulau Ubin, all the islands around for housing to accomodate this population increase! Singapore need to capture a wide range of incomes from high-end jobs where the people can live in Singapore but basically doing jobs for other countries, especially the developed countries where their workers are more "lazy", their labour laws are too rigid and not favorable to employ locals and such jobs can be outsourced to high-skill workers overseas, etc. This should be the future Singapore model of growing Singapore's economy!
On the other hand, while welcoming high-end high-brain foreigners, Singapore should also have a heart to protect the low-income citizens by ensuring that those jobs that cannot be shipped out of Singapore should be reserved for citizens! E.g.? Taxi drivers, bus drivers, local transport sector basically, local service sectors like restaurants, retail shops, hotels, etc.
But we are importing the bus drivers, cleaners, etc ! The more they import the high income people to lower income people we become. There is no end to high income people in this world, enough to make office boy like myself become road sweeper!
I dont want that!
DKSG
I'm referring to those who can make significant contribution like creating more jobs for local people or have special skill set that we don't have here. Of cource, your job is categoried under projected jobs for local.:p
[quote=teddybear]People always say that if Singapore let in more new immigrants, it is good for GDP and good for the ministers themselves only (because their pay & bonus linked to GDP). However, this is not true. For a country as a whole, if Singapore want to continue to prosper and reduce effects of global recession on Singapore's economy (and hence job losses during recession etc), and especially without natural resources, Singapore just need to have a critical mass of capable people to develop a much bigger service-based domestic GDP component! To achieve this, we need more capable (higher-brain power and higher income) residents in Singapore to achieve this critical mass for a bigger service-based domestic GDP. What is a good figure? I am not sure, but probably at least 12-15m population? :o
We should just make full use of Pulau Tekong, Pulau Ubin, all the islands around for housing to accomodate this population increase! Singapore need to capture a wide range of incomes from high-end jobs where the people can live in Singapore but basically doing jobs for other countries, especially the developed countries where their workers are more "lazy", their labour laws are too rigid and not favorable to employ locals and such jobs can be outsourced to high-skill workers overseas, etc. This should be the future Singapore model of growing Singapore's economy!
On the other hand, while welcoming high-end high-brain foreigners, Singapore should also have a heart to protect the low-income citizens by ensuring that those jobs that cannot be shipped out of Singapore should be reserved for citizens! E.g.? Taxi drivers, bus drivers, local transport sector basically, local service sectors like restaurants, retail shops, hotels, etc.
But we are importing the bus drivers, cleaners, etc ! The more they import the high income people to lower income people we become. There is no end to high income people in this world, enough to make office boy like myself become road sweeper!
I dont want that!
DKSG
People always say that if Singapore let in more new immigrants, it is good for GDP and good for the ministers themselves only (because their pay & bonus linked to GDP). However, this is not true. For a country as a whole, if Singapore want to continue to prosper and reduce effects of global recession on Singapore's economy (and hence job losses during recession etc), and especially without natural resources, Singapore just need to have a critical mass of capable people to develop a much bigger service-based domestic GDP component! To achieve this, we need more capable (higher-brain power and higher income) residents in Singapore to achieve this critical mass for a bigger service-based domestic GDP. What is a good figure? I am not sure, but probably at least 12-15m population? :o
We should just make full use of Pulau Tekong, Pulau Ubin, all the islands around for housing to accomodate this population increase! Singapore need to capture a wide range of incomes from high-end jobs where the people can live in Singapore but basically doing jobs for other countries, especially the developed countries where their workers are more "lazy", their labour laws are too rigid and not favorable to employ locals and such jobs can be outsourced to high-skill workers overseas, etc. This should be the future Singapore model of growing Singapore's economy!
On the other hand, while welcoming high-end high-brain foreigners, Singapore should also have a heart to protect the low-income citizens by ensuring that those jobs that cannot be shipped out of Singapore should be reserved for citizens! E.g.? Taxi drivers, bus drivers, local transport sector basically, local service sectors like restaurants, retail shops, hotels, etc.
I totally disagree. Increase population will not solve the problem, it will only snowball the problem for future generation. Singapore is an island with limited resources (as you mention), so the only way to build a sustainable economy is to boost our productivity, not population.
Before you suggest 12-15m, perhaps you should watch this clip from Natgeo, hopefully it will help you understand what goes outside CCR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB6rznf_Bi0
Btw, what exactly is HIGH END high brain foreigners? Do you have a high end high brain as well?
I totally disagree. Increase population will not solve the problem, it will only snowball the problem for future generation. Singapore is an island with limited resources (as you mention), so the only way to build a sustainable economy is to boost our productivity, not population.
Before you suggest 12-15m, perhaps you should watch this clip from Natgeo, hopefully it will help you understand what goes outside CCR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB6rznf_Bi0
Btw, what exactly is HIGH END high brain foreigners? Do you have a high end high brain as well?
You can gripe all you want but judging from past history, the decision is as good as cast in stone. Look at the past decisions like the Casinos, Bkt Brown etc. Yes, they try to appease you by arranging feedback sessions but its time to get real. Once they get their critical mass of new citizen voters, there may not be even a need to arrange feedback sessions. Better learn to live with the overcrowding, train breakdowns and high prices. Its unavoidable.
Ha ha ha! You want to increase productivity instead of increasing population to help economic growth? :doh: Ok ok, since you want this route, we will help you to increase your productivity - How? Ok, the way is to retrench half the workforce in your company, and make you do the work originally done by 2 workers. You can't finish? No excuse, that is because you are not efficient and not productive and you have to increase your efficiency and productivity! Firstly, cut your pay & bonus since you so inefficient! You still can't finish? Cut your pay again and use that to employ somebody cheap to help out (e.g. foreign worker - for all you know, they are more efficient and productive than you!). Why I know? Because you are surfing the internet and can still talk cock when you are supposed to be working during office hours! (Ok people like us then very free to TCSS here during your office hours! :p).
I totally disagree. Increase population will not solve the problem, it will only snowball the problem for future generation. Singapore is an island with limited resources (as you mention), so the only way to build a sustainable economy is to boost our productivity, not population.
Before you suggest 12-15m, perhaps you should watch this clip from Natgeo, hopefully it will help you understand what goes outside CCR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB6rznf_Bi0
Btw, what exactly is HIGH END high brain foreigners? Do you have a high end high brain as well?
You can gripe all you want but judging from past history, the decision is as good as cast in stone. Look at the past decisions like the Casinos, Bkt Brown etc. Yes, they try to appease you by arranging feedback sessions but its time to get real. Once they get their critical mass of new citizen voters, there may not be even a need to arrange feedback sessions. Better learn to live with the overcrowding, train breakdowns and high prices. Its unavoidable.
I agree with equalizer. I think its a done deal.
Which is why, from a property perspective, people better quickly buy their properties while the 10% ABDS is still on.
Before long, you will realise that despite that there will still be a lot of people buying. U know why ? Because they become NOT foreigner, they become citizen already ? then they drive up the prices.
Remember, with every x number of citizens we create (not natural birth hor!), property price will go up y%. Every new citizen we let in belongs to the group of people who can afford PC.
DKSG
Ha ha ha! You want to increase productivity instead of increasing population to help economic growth? :doh: Ok ok, since you want this route, we will help you to increase your productivity - How? Ok, the way is to retrench half the workforce in your company, and make you do the work originally done by 2 workers. You can't finish? No excuse, that is because you are not efficient and not productive and you have to increase your efficiency and productivity! Firstly, cut your pay & bonus since you so inefficient! You still can't finish? Cut your pay again and use that to employ somebody cheap to help out (e.g. foreign worker - for all you know, they are more efficient and productive than you!). Why I know? Because you are surfing the internet and can still talk cock when you are supposed to be working during office hours! (Ok people like us then very free to TCSS here during your office hours! :p).
You cannot assume all investors are office workers leh.
Investors create a lot of value, they buy at $1 mil, then sell at $1.5 mil. They created 500K in the process.
So investors are highly productive!
Office boy like me can relax when the bosses not around. So can come here and contribute. Make myself productive. Exchanging ideas here are highly productive.
DKSG
The way to look at this is : the new migrants are all within the top 10% ! And what happens to citizens like myself who is currently in the 30th%? If they add another 10% to the top, I get pushed downwards to be become the 40th% !!!
Those with kids in school would have known this. So last time, maybe I can afford a PC, but after they pushed me down to 40%, maybe I cannot afford anymore.
The more people to let in at the top, the higher our property prices will become!
Hope you guys can understand my point. Thats why many people now, regardless of race language or religion, quickly grab a condo NOW! Coz many know that once the top 10% comes in (again), our lifestyle will be downgraded.
DKSG
I agree with you about salaries being pushed down. But the question is: what are Singaporeans doing to move up the value chain?
I'm trying to find Singaporeans to fill a few vacancies. Salary 4-9K. It's really hard to find people with the right attitude. Writing agreements/contracts is one aspect of the job. All the resumes I've seen from Singaporeans have grammatical errors in the first lines already. Some send 8-page resume. How to hire them, let alone pay them up to 9K? :o
Singaporeans need to improve!
Ha ha ha! You want to increase productivity instead of increasing population to help economic growth? :doh: Ok ok, since you want this route, we will help you to increase your productivity - How? Ok, the way is to retrench half the workforce in your company, and make you do the work originally done by 2 workers. You can't finish? No excuse, that is because you are not efficient and not productive and you have to increase your efficiency and productivity! Firstly, cut your pay & bonus since you so inefficient! You still can't finish? Cut your pay again and use that to employ somebody cheap to help out (e.g. foreign worker - for all you know, they are more efficient and productive than you!). Why I know? Because you are surfing the internet and can still talk cock when you are supposed to be working during office hours! (Ok people like us then very free to TCSS here during your office hours! :p).
Honestly, do you really know what is the meaning when people say increase productivity? You seems to be going on the reverse mode on this subject..
you should just stick to your CCR topic instead of embarrassing yourself in front of your flunkies.
You cannot assume all investors are office workers leh.
Investors create a lot of value, they buy at $1 mil, then sell at $1.5 mil. They created 500K in the process.
So investors are highly productive!
Office boy like me can relax when the bosses not around. So can come here and contribute. Make myself productive. Exchanging ideas here are highly productive.
DKSG
I think Teddy is confused between downsizing and productivity.
I agree with you about salaries being pushed down. But the question is: what are Singaporeans doing to move up the value chain?
I'm trying to find Singaporeans to fill a few vacancies. Salary 4-9K. It's really hard to find people with the right attitude. Writing agreements/contracts is one aspect of the job. All the resumes I've seen from Singaporeans have grammatical errors in the first lines already. Some send 8-page resume. How to hire them, let alone pay them up to 9K? :o
Singaporeans need to improve!
Trust me. There a limit how much people can move up. The hard truth is : Cannot make it means cannot make it.
Your incident is an individual basis. I am sure you can find the right person in due course.
If you need office boy, call me!
DKSG
I agree with you about salaries being pushed down. But the question is: what are Singaporeans doing to move up the value chain?
I'm trying to find Singaporeans to fill a few vacancies. Salary 4-9K. It's really hard to find people with the right attitude. Writing agreements/contracts is one aspect of the job. All the resumes I've seen from Singaporeans have grammatical errors in the first lines already. Some send 8-page resume. How to hire them, let alone pay them up to 9K? :o
Singaporeans need to improve!
my english not too bad, got writing experience too. wanna hire me? :D
Trust me. There a limit how much people can move up. The hard truth is : Cannot make it means cannot make it.
Your incident is an individual basis. I am sure you can find the right person in due course.
If you need office boy, call me!
DKSG
If I hire office boy, I want a handsome one. So that clients will feel happy when they come :p
It is my personal opinion that if people have the right motivation and they are doing work that is a match to their skills, the majority can do well. If they have no motivation and can't be motivated, then they really cannot make it but more out of lack of will rather than lack of useful ability.
The inability to easily find local talent is not a situation which I alone face. If not, why do the top companies pay huge fees to headhunters? The situation 8 years ago is similar to the situation now. Most Singaporeans still have not pulled up their socks!
Singaporeans need to improve!
...There a limit how much people can move up. The hard truth is : Cannot make it means cannot make it.
A top IB expanding in SG had tried to hire IT staff (developers). 100k salary job. Eventually, only 1 Singaporean was hired, the rest all FTs, including not only Indian, but Russians, Europeans, and other nationalities as well. As a matter of fact, very few Singaporean candidates qualified the 1st round.
What do you interpret from this ?
1) Singaporeans so many cannot make it even when there is opportunity ?
2) imports take away Singaporean's opportunities ?
A top IB expanding in SG had tried to hire IT staff (developers). 100k salary job. Eventually, only 1 Singaporean is hired, the rest all FTs, including not only Indian, but Russians, Europeans, and other nationalities as well. As a matter of fact, very few Singaporean candidates qualified the 1st round.
What do you interpret from this ?
1) Singaporeans so many cannot make it even when there is opportunity ?
2) imports take away Singaporean's opportunity ?
since the pay is already fixed at 100k per annum and you mentioned that few singaporean candidates qualify, i would see it as singaporeans can't make it. i'm assuming that whichever candidate who's being hired will be paid 100k per annum
my english not too bad, got writing experience too. wanna hire me? :D
Not too bad = bad? :D
A top IB expanding in SG had tried to hire IT staff (developers). 100k salary job. Eventually, only 1 Singaporean is hired, the rest all FTs, including not only Indian, but Russians, Europeans, and other nationalities as well. As a matter of fact, very few Singaporean candidates qualified the 1st round.
What do you interpret from this ?
1) Singaporeans so many cannot make it even when there is opportunity ?
2) imports take away Singaporean's opportunity ?
It's (1) and also (2).
Because if the FT's were not here, the company will have no choice but to hire poor quality Singaporean candidates.
I am unhappy about management not grooming local talent because of the investment and time they have to put in themselves. They would rather import. This really takes away SG's opportunity. We get stuck in middle management.
If I hire office boy, I want a handsome one. So that clients will feel happy when they come :p
It is my personal opinion that if people have the right motivation and they are doing work that is a match to their skills, the majority can do well. If they have no motivation and can't be motivated, then they really cannot make it but more out of lack of will rather than lack of useful ability.
The inability to easily find local talent is not a situation which I alone face. If not, why do the top companies pay huge fees to headhunters? The situation 8 years ago is similar to the situation now. Most Singaporeans still have not pulled up their socks!
So DKSG.... You yanDao enough not...??
Not too bad = bad? :D
It's (1) and also (2).
Because if the FT's were not here, the company will have no choice but to hire poor quality Singaporean candidates.
eh eh, go check my posts lah. apart from the lahs, lees and lors, my grammar/vocab/spelling ain't too bad.
that aside, i won't hire a poor quality candidate - singaporean or not. if the candidate can't perform, i gotta hire another replacement, train, etc etc. it's a costly exercise.
So DKSG.... You yanDao enough not...??
wah liao! carbuncle, first you need marital counselling. now you're checking another guy out!!!! :scared-5:
I'm in favor of importing. I think it's inevitable. If SG ever wants to be the New York of the East.
But we should not abandon the pro family efforts. The baby bonus scheme is really so insignificant it's not even a serious try.Agreed... MIW only lament the low fertility rate of 1.2, far short of 2.1. Well, heard someone mentioned that its no about family not wanting to have children but the living expenses is really no joke. Can't feel the serious efforts to promote child bearing. When maternity leave was increased from 3 months to 4 months, everybody said good but honestly its a pathetic improvement from some countries that gives up to 6 months or a year. And then nothing was done for the husband. I was denied additional leave when my son was born! I only had 3 days... :doh: No serious try indeed! :mad:
wah liao! carbuncle, first you need marital counselling. now you're checking another guy out!!!! :scared-5:
Damn... You are sharp ;-) tio lia liao
my english not too bad, got writing experience too. wanna hire me? :D
Ah Eng, you type like that means cmi liao lor!
english also cannot put capital E.
"my english not too bad" is already singlish la!
You must say "I am proficient in my written and spoken English and have extensive writing experience."
DKSG
Office Boy
So DKSG.... You yanDao enough not...??
I am a down to earth office boy.
Not good looking enough to be model.
Thats why can only do office boy work.
The aunties in office like me la. Thats why my work is easy.
People dont make things difficult for me.
Those they can do like shred paper, they do themselves.
I buy stationaries, do inter dept mails, and take care of the pantry.
DKSG
Agreed... MIW only lament the low fertility rate of 1.2, far short of 2.1. Well, heard someone mentioned that its no about family not wanting to have children but the living expenses is really no joke. Can't feel the serious efforts to promote child bearing. When maternity leave was increased from 3 months to 4 months, everybody said good but honestly its a pathetic improvement from some countries that gives up to 6 months or a year. And then nothing was done for the husband. I was denied additional leave when my son was born! I only had 3 days... :doh: No serious try indeed! :mad:
main reasaon for low birth is becos of new generation mind set not really abt monetary. new generation want freedom, most will not get married till they are > 30. by the time they date, married, enjoy freedom w/o child and decide to give birth, probably reaching 40 liao. and if govt continue to give monetary reward to encourage birth. they may not get their desire result. govt should really start from basic to cultivate the correct family value (this will take years to achieve result) and continue to ensure our population do not decrease, which include to have foreigner. this is really inevitable choice
Ah Eng, you type like that means cmi liao lor!
english also cannot put capital E.
"my english not too bad" is already singlish la!
You must say "I am proficient in my written and spoken English and have extensive writing experience."
DKSG
Office Boy
eh, i'm lazy to put it in caps doesn't mean my english fail lah.
put me to da test! i know how to spell check, use thesaurus (or is it dinosaurus) and change font size, k
:D
It will be a joke if the Handsome Office Boy's English is better than the Para-Legal Guy...
main reasaon for low birth is becos of new generation mind set not really abt monetary. new generation want freedom, most will not get married till they are > 30. by the time they date, married, enjoy freedom w/o child and decide to give birth, probably reaching 40 liao. and if govt continue to give monetary reward to encourage birth. they may not get their desire result. govt should really start from basic to cultivate the correct family value (this will take years to achieve result) and continue to ensure our population do not decrease, which include to have foreigner. this is really inevitable choice
it's a pretty sweeping statement. i'm sure not all gen-ys think in the same manner.
although i do agree that it takes a change in mindset too, you cannot deny that the high costs of raising a child is a barrier to some
I am a down to earth office boy.
Not good looking enough to be model.
Thats why can only do office boy work.
The aunties in office like me la. Thats why my work is easy.
People dont make things difficult for me.
Those they can do like shred paper, they do themselves.
I buy stationaries, do inter dept mails, and take care of the pantry.
DKSG
Stationaries?? NEXT!!!!! (even for dating purpose)
wah liao! carbuncle, first you need marital counselling. now you're checking another guy out!!!! :scared-5:
Looking for handsome man?
Ha ha. He should get to know the most handsome man in this forum .... BJ21..... with 3rd eye some more.
But BJ21 just attained enlightenment recently so will most likely reject him :D
And BJ21 only like pretty women with BIG BIG ..........................BIG eyes.
Stationaries?? NEXT!!!!! (even for dating purpose)
whoa! carbuncle want not only a handsome man, but one who's a high flyer too.........
i bet carbuncle will go "eh handsome, i dropped my pen. can you help me pick it up?"
Looking for handsome man?
Ha ha. He should get to know the most handsome man in this forum .... BJ21..... with 3rd eye some more.
But BJ21 just achieved enlightenment recently so will most likely reject him :D
And BJ21 only like pretty women with BIG BIG ..........................BIG eyes.
Bro PN don like that la. This forum got almost 20k members cant be not a single gay right? I shall be the first gay in the village!!! (take a leaf from Little Britain) As for bro BJ. Although he nick sounds sexciting to me I think I rather not date one who always look and monitor stocks.... Even in bed you dunno what is really UP or which is DOWN
whoa! carbuncle want not only a handsome man, but one who's a high flyer too.........
i bet carbuncle will go "eh handsome, i dropped my pen. can you help me pick it up?"
Looks like your English and spelling and comprehension total fail also, not just DKSG yandao. I was saying stationery also couldnt spell properly, so NEXT!!!!! ;-) So what punishment you want? drop pens or pants?
eh eh, go check my posts lah. apart from the lahs, lees and lors, my grammar/vocab/spelling ain't too bad.
that aside, i won't hire a poor quality candidate - singaporean or not. if the candidate can't perform, i gotta hire another replacement, train, etc etc. it's a costly exercise.
ain't bad = bad? :D
You know some people think "not bad" = bad and "can-do attitude" means so-so attitude ?
It's faster for me to do the work myself than to oversee it being done by an unqualified person.
Agreed... MIW only lament the low fertility rate of 1.2, far short of 2.1. Well, heard someone mentioned that its no about family not wanting to have children but the living expenses is really no joke. Can't feel the serious efforts to promote child bearing. When maternity leave was increased from 3 months to 4 months, everybody said good but honestly its a pathetic improvement from some countries that gives up to 6 months or a year. And then nothing was done for the husband. I was denied additional leave when my son was born! I only had 3 days... :doh: No serious try indeed! :mad:
It's more than just the cost of raising a child. It's also about: what sort of life will my child have?
I am a down to earth office boy.
Not good looking enough to be model.
Thats why can only do office boy work.
The aunties in office like me la. Thats why my work is easy.
People dont make things difficult for me.
Those they can do like shred paper, they do themselves.
I buy stationaries, do inter dept mails, and take care of the pantry.
DKSG
If they really like you, they will always ask you to shred paper for them ;)
Stationaries?? NEXT!!!!! (even for dating purpose)
Ya :doh:
Stationaries?? NEXT!!!!! (even for dating purpose)
But I just bought my 10th property in Singapore!
Hahaha!
DKSG
ain't bad = bad? :D
You know some people think "not bad" = bad and "can-do attitude" means so-so attitude ?
It's faster for me to do the work myself than to oversee it being done by an unqualified person.
i agree but it isn't ideal for succession planning or promotion. i've seen work getting bottlenecked in the hands of few cos' they never seem to be able to trust surbodinates or deputies to handle responsibilities
Bro PN don like that la. This forum got almost 20k members cant be not a single gay right? I shall be the first gay in the village!!! (take a leaf from Little Britain) As for bro BJ. Although he nick sounds sexciting to me I think I rather not date one who always look and monitor stocks.... Even in bed you dunno what is really UP or which is DOWN
True true. My apologies and best wishes to you. I hope you'll find your ideal HE in this forum soon.
But I just bought my 10th property in Singapore!
Hahaha!
DKSG
eh, got opening in your company or not? shred paper can buy 10 properties in Singapore leh:D
But I just bought my 10th property in Singapore!
Hahaha!
DKSG
Ok then... Considering you might be as Klass as Donna Karan herself...
Rosegarden
27-04-12, 16:49
I agree with equalizer. I think its a done deal.
Which is why, from a property perspective, people better quickly buy their properties while the 10% ABDS is still on.
Before long, you will realise that despite that there will still be a lot of people buying. U know why ? Because they become NOT foreigner, they become citizen already ? then they drive up the prices.
Remember, with every x number of citizens we create (not natural birth hor!), property price will go up y%. Every new citizen we let in belongs to the group of people who can afford PC.
DKSG
MM (the man, not the housing type!) himself has spoken several times on this topic. It's a road of no return alright as far as the gov is concerned. They have tasted the sweet fruits of this policy for the past years and think there is no reason they cannot continue, while tempering, adjusting the people's expectation of living standards on this island. And they think they can pull it off by 2016.
eh, got opening in your company or not? shred paper can buy 10 properties in Singapore leh:D
I think he is the CEO and part-time office boy. :D
True true. My apologies and best wishes to you. I hope you'll find your ideal HE in this forum soon.
Thanks sweet bro. Seriously, I cum here is to talk about Condo and not to find Coc* la... Got other better place for the latter.
I think he is the CEO and part-time office boy. :D
Sounds like Undercover Boss....
But I just bought my 10th property in Singapore!
Hahaha!
DKSG
All the more cannot hire you! :D
i agree but it isn't ideal for succession planning or promotion. i've seen work getting bottlenecked in the hands of few cos' they never seem to be able to trust surbodinates or deputies to handle responsibilities
I mean keep searching, not do it myself permanently.
Cos if staff make mistakes, I may lose the client and lose my job! :scared-4:
eh, got opening in your company or not? shred paper can buy 10 properties in Singapore leh:D
Alamak! Shouldnt have posted that!
Anyway, sometimes it is good to work in various kinda jobs to experience what other people go through. Its kinda of a life experience.
DKSG
PS : Ok. Dont talk personal things anymore ok ?
.. i would see it as singaporeans can't make it. i'm assuming that whichever candidate who's being hired will be paid 100k per annum
yes it is.
so there is no shortage of high paying positions for Singaporeans, but some are not getting these positions.
therefore, the argument that "Singaporeans deprived of opportunities for high paying jobs because of influx of high-value FTs" is untrue. (The IB in question in fact prefers to hire locals because of less hassle in terms.)
It's the low to mid level positions that are really at risk if we import too many. Because every one starts out as ordinary wage earners, then only some "can make it". Importing many low to mid level workers will see them compete directly with the vast majority of ordinary employees. This really reduces their chances to perform and progress, not to mention depressing wages. For the locals that "make it", they are talents themselves, and they will be sought after by employers. There is not so much perceived risk for these group.
If people hope by not importing "high-value" FTs such that they themselves can get the good job eventually, it's borderline wishful thinking. Evergreen I dun think you will hire someone like that rite ? The IB in question may just decide to abandon the plan to operate here.
Alamak! Shouldnt have posted that!
Anyway, sometimes it is good to work in various kinda jobs to experience what other people go through. Its kinda of a life experience.
DKSG
PS : Ok. Dont talk personal things anymore ok ?
Why? You scared gals and some guys may start pm you ask you out is it? Sometimes a bit personal things make it fun ma.... Put a bit of real meat to just a nick....
Why? You scared gals and some guys may start pm you ask you out is it? Sometimes a bit personal things make it fun ma.... Put a bit of real meat to just a nick....
Office boy is going home liao!
Great exchanging ideas with all of you!
DKSG
(The IB in question in fact prefers to hire locals because of less hassle in terms.)
Agree!
It's the low to mid level positions that are really at risk if we import too many. Because every one starts out as ordinary wage earners, then only some "can make it". Importing many low to mid level workers will see them compete directly with the vast majority of ordinary employees. This really reduces their chances to perform and progress, not to mention depressing wages. For the locals that "make it", they are talents themselves, and they will be sought after by employers. There is not so much perceived risk for these group.
Agree that everyone, including local talent, starts somewhere below (except for those born into well-connected families). The risk for is that the shrinkage of demand for the higher positions caused by factors such as relocation of operations overseas. They have to stay alert and keep re-inventing themselves too. E.g. many managers have to find jobs in China after SG factories closed down.
If people hope by not importing "high-value" FTs such that they themselves can get the good job eventually, it's borderline wishful thinking. Evergreen I dun think you will hire someone like that rite ? The IB in question may just decide to abandon the plan to operate here.
Ya. Better to open a office where it's easier to hire the right people.
Why? You scared gals and some guys may start pm you ask you out is it? Sometimes a bit personal things make it fun ma.... Put a bit of real meat to just a nick....
Or find the troll hiding under the bridge....l:eek:
Or find the troll hiding under the bridge....l:eek:
Aiyo not again... Troll jokes lol
there are many cooze hound in this forum. be careful.
MM (the man, not the housing type!) himself has spoken several times on this topic. It's a road of no return alright as far as the gov is concerned. They have tasted the sweet fruits of this policy for the past years and think there is no reason they cannot continue, while tempering, adjusting the people's expectation of living standards on this island. And they think they can pull it off by 2016.
Perhaps you should read MM's Q&A book to get a better insight of his thinking on the desired population size, and foreign talent. Really, MM cant be blamed for many of the post 2006 issues. MM is a great man, but I am not so sure his successor is of the same calibre.
just a thought.
the purpose of importing 25k a year is to keep working population stable.
how do you keep total population stable and working population stable if birth rate currently around 1?
if you are importing working adults into singapore, we are just kicking the can down the road.
because if we are relying on importing and not on natural birth, the adults imported in 2012 will retired in 2050.
and if we maintain population at 6.5M, then the proportion of working population to retirees will eventually drop, which is similar to the current situation.
This is a ponzi scheme.
1) to maintain working adults : retirees, population cannot maintained at 6.5million, it will have to be increased if birth rates are around 1.
2) with people dying much later and birth rates way below, one way to maintain the ratio stable is to increase retirement age, in effect increasing the working population and decreasing the retirees.
just a thought.
the purpose of importing 25k a year is to keep working population stable.
how do you keep total population stable and working population stable if birth rate currently around 1?
In 2050, they may need to import 45K a year just to the maintain proportion of young and old.:doh: We might have to buy over JB or Batam....:D
In 2050, they may need to import 45K a year just to the maintain proportion of young and old.:doh: We might have to buy over JB or Batam....:D
By 2050 there will be many, many countries facing net population loss and alot of incentives will be needed to attract new immigrants to come here. So do not be surprised when perks for new foreigners are more attractive than those of their citizens. You already have a tsate of this in the form of telco subscriptions...they dangle better perks for new sign-ups than existing subscribers. The same will be the case to attract new immigrants.
China, Korea, Japan has ageing population.
Western countries also has ageing population.
In order of racial preference, to be "imported" to Singapore.
westerners
chinese
indian
latinos
malays/arabs
Don't be surprised if Singapore will have higher proportion people of Indian origins and malays/arabs in the future.
That's what MM mean when Singapore will be absorbed into Malaysia.
One man = 1 vote. Tyranny of the masses.
Israel jews low birth rate. Israel arabs high birth rate. Sooner rather than later, Israel will go back to Arab hands. So I dont see why Palestine want to make so much trouble. Just ask Israel arabs to marry early, around 15 years old, and give birth each year.
yes it is.
so there is no shortage of high paying positions for Singaporeans, but some are not getting these positions.
therefore, the argument that "Singaporeans deprived of opportunities for high paying jobs because of influx of high-value FTs" is untrue. (The IB in question in fact prefers to hire locals because of less hassle in terms.)
It's the low to mid level positions that are really at risk if we import too many. Because every one starts out as ordinary wage earners, then only some "can make it". Importing many low to mid level workers will see them compete directly with the vast majority of ordinary employees. This really reduces their chances to perform and progress, not to mention depressing wages. For the locals that "make it", they are talents themselves, and they will be sought after by employers. There is not so much perceived risk for these group.
If people hope by not importing "high-value" FTs such that they themselves can get the good job eventually, it's borderline wishful thinking. Evergreen I dun think you will hire someone like that rite ? The IB in question may just decide to abandon the plan to operate here.
Look at a REPORT at today Mainstream newspaper, have already heard it long time ago...so question is : import talented people 'yes', BUT need to protect Citizen first in work, eduication etc...
Citizen comes first... make it a LEGISLATION , show it to foreigner that citizens are given priority in JOB, education, healthcare, housing etc and this will encourage those Talented foreigners that taking up citizenship is worthwhile and also discourage those half pail type of so called FT lowering or stagnating pay, replacing citzien and creating all sorts of work , social problem as mentioned in the report..
meanwhile, all landlords pls increase your rental high high to get the money back they earn from here ....:D
meanwhile, all landlords pls increase your rental high high to get the money back they earn from here ....:D
You will realise that rental is hypothetically a own-made number.
Whether u can accept a rental of $5,000 or $4,000 is all based on perception, demand/supply.
It tomorrow, the condo next to yours TOP already and they offering your tenant 25% off the current asking of your condo, you have no choice but to offier 35% off.
And the war goes on.
DKSG
Look at a REPORT at today Mainstream newspaper, have already heard it long time ago...so question is : import talented people 'yes', BUT need to protect Citizen first in work, eduication etc...
Citizen comes first... make it a LEGISLATION , show it to foreigner that citizens are given priority in JOB, education, healthcare, housing etc and this will encourage those Talented foreigners that taking up citizenship is worthwhile and also discourage those half pail type of so called FT lowering or stagnating pay, replacing citzien and creating all sorts of work , social problem as mentioned in the report..
Lack of legislation isn't the problem. The mentality of Singaporean leaders is the real problem. Our own government favours foreigners for top positions (where it's "acceptable" to hire foreigners).
Buy Landed
High value new citizen = increase pool of buyers for landed.
Assuming 25K citizens = 8 K household
Assuming 25 % wants a landed property = 2K demand per year.
Current landed supply is a 4K per year , thus 50 % will be taken by new citizens.
From what i deduce, landed price can only go up with the combination of new citizens, hot money and increase demand from current citizens.
Not forgetting, landed is still selling at 20% and in some instance 50 % discount of land ( not buildup ) price, including buildup, the potential could be alot more in % terms.
Yep...agree...gonna load up on landed this weekend....:D
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/reference/mdsmar12.pdf
http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/foreign-worker-levies/Pages/levies-quotas-for-hiring-foreign-workers.aspx
Employers who hire skilled Work Permit holders can enjoy lower levy rates - S$190 per month.
1,394,400 x S$190=S$ 264,936,000 per month. x 12 = S$ 3,179,232,000 per year
Haut Ah............
We have the best gov in the World. They are pay by FT and the worker are forever young....... Don't need to wait for 20+ years. Why is the country having the people work for others feel good.:beats-me-man:
Ha ha ha! You want to increase productivity instead of increasing population to help economic growth? :doh: Ok ok, since you want this route, we will help you to increase your productivity - How? Ok, the way is to retrench half the workforce in your company, and make you do the work originally done by 2 workers. You can't finish? No excuse, that is because you are not efficient and not productive and you have to increase your efficiency and productivity! Firstly, cut your pay & bonus since you so inefficient! You still can't finish? Cut your pay again and use that to employ somebody cheap to help out (e.g. foreign worker - for all you know, they are more efficient and productive than you!). Why I know? Because you are surfing the internet and can still talk cock when you are supposed to be working during office hours! (Ok people like us then very free to TCSS here during your office hours! :p).
Here is something for you to think about....
Raising productivity only way to sustain better wages, says PM Lee
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1198357/1/.html
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120502-343232.html
:rolleyes:
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120502-343232.html
:rolleyes:
Those 25K foreigners will become Singaporeans too once they convert to citizens so they "will always be top priority' as well.
In 4 years time, 100K of them will enjoy being in the top priority list...you get the idea so no need to permutate 10/20 yrs down the road.
Most of them will also be rooting themselves here having built up substantial reserves/wealth from before so not only will they enjoy the same benefits as you but also have a significantly higher purchasing power than the ordinary citizen.
Go figure....
Those 25K foreigners will become Singaporeans too once they convert to citizens so they "will always be top priority' as well.
In 4 years time, 100K of them will enjoy being in the top priority list...you get the idea so no need to permutate 10/20 yrs down the road.
Most of them will also be rooting themselves here having built up substantial reserves/wealth from before so not only will they enjoy the same benefits as you but also have a significantly higher purchasing power than the ordinary citizen.
Go figure....
I suppose govt will offer citizenship to people of higher calibre. But such people are also in demand by many other countries, just as many countries look favourably to our kind to attract over. If so, what's the upside for these new talents to uproot to here? Frankly, if I am a talent outside this place, I will NOT consider moving here. Its high stress, high cost of living, lousy care for the aged, very hot and extremely crowded. I am really confused:beats-me-man: Maybe that's the reason many who move here never seriously thought of sinking roots here. I don't blame them
I suppose bringing the FT/FWs in for the near future is a must simply because of a lack in replacement ratio and that many works are readily taken up by them. My concern is this: If fertility rate is only at 1.2, why govt is not pumping up efforts to up the fertility rate? Not doing anything about this rate simply means that Singapore will reply primarily on FT/FW for the next 40 to 80 years??? If something is done to boost birth rates, maybe our reliance on FT/FW will gradually drop over the next 20 years?
Then again which is an easier choice to make? Bringing in FT/FW can get immediate answer to our current situation plus in brings along huge amounts of levies for our national piggy bank. Boosting birth rates will do the exact opposite, i.e. to address all the concerns of would-be parents like high cost, school entry, home sizes, etc. Between spending more and earning more, its really an easy decision! :scared-5:
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