View Full Version : 70% of sky habitat snapped up in a day!
felicia_sg
21-04-12, 18:02
Interesting.
However, not joining on the same day doesn't mean that the 2 users may not be the same person right? Those who are doing these know very well who they are. :doh:
Interesting ...... Do you know that both Teddybear & Melody not just always sing the same tune or song?
Both join this forum on the same day 2 Mar 2009. :scared-1:
What a perfect match.
What a coincidence!!!!!!
It happens in HK as well
even hotter there
http://hk.realestate.yahoo.net/propertynews/1334962772.html
Watching the drama here at times is more interesting than watching : 塘心风暴, the main question is ... who is 米雪 ？
DKSG
The truth is slowly unfolding
Enjoy the show ;)
Need to create 2 ID? Talk to oneself?! :beats-me-man:
some dumb-arse like to create 2 id to support each other comments. or uptalk market or certain segments
plenty of losers are over other forums too..:doh:
It happens in HK as well
even hotter there
http://hk.realestate.yahoo.net/propertynews/1334962772.html
MISSED THE BOAT EXPERT MR B who is the expert in searching for china/hk news.. Thinks he has missed out this news..Otherwise sure he will copy & paste before u.. :rolleyes:
some dumb-arse like to create 2 id to support each other comments. or uptalk market or certain segments
plenty of losers are over other forums too..:doh:
U mean MR B cum Rick1??? After ppl discovered MR B using 2 id, sudden Rick1 disappeared :D
MISSED THE BOAT EXPERT MR B who is the expert in searching for china/hk news.. Thinks he has missed out this news..Otherwise sure he will copy & paste before u.. :rolleyes:
In fact, two months back, I was calling for HK property market to chiong. Now there is a strong wave of buyers from China into HK, they are not buying one or two, they are buying many in one go.
Sg has pushed some of the China buyers into HK market.
In fact, two months back, I was calling for HK property market to chiong. Now there is a strong wave of buyers from China into HK, they are not buying one or two, they are buying many in one go.
Sg has pushed some of the China buyers into HK market.
Cos MR B use the take HK prop market as S'pore prop market benchmark.. It mean S'pore property price is beginning to climb further.. That's very scary.. :scared-1:
It happens in HK as well
even hotter there
http://hk.realestate.yahoo.net/propertynews/1334962772.html
wah kao... :eek:
It happens in HK as well
even hotter there
http://hk.realestate.yahoo.net/propertynews/1334962772.html
Sinoland is FEO in HK.
The pty scene in HK had been heating up since CNY. And luxury projects too. All sectors are moving. Their gov really believes in free market economy. Developers there even can give own loans to help to cover the stipulated bank LTV.
Sinoland is FEO in HK.
The pty scene in HK had been heating up since CNY. And luxury projects too. All sectors are moving. Their gov really believes in free market economy. Developers there even can give own loans to help to cover the stipulated bank LTV.
Where is Ah B? He shld be informed of this man!
Sounds scary - to him!
DKSG
some dumb-arse like to create 2 id to support each other comments. or uptalk market or certain segments
plenty of losers are over other forums too..:doh:
Such comments are really uncalled for. :tsk-tsk:
All these personal attacks got to stop.
I for one do not think a young girl owning an expensive bag is a common thing. Either she has rich parents, or she spends all she has on it, or she is really good making hundreds of thousands a yr, no one knows, so let's just leave it at that.
And btw Lindy is a shoulder bag.
Now we can get back to topic. Last I heard, 150 sold. Most 2bds gone. Half 3bds gone. Plenty of 4bd, 1bd and all those terrace-in-the-sky units available.
Think I had already clarified that the $3k pm expenditure is for household income of $8-10k pm, not referring to myself. I said it is possible because stripped off the luxury items (like expenses on Holidays, Hermes bags, etc), the expenditure can indeed be close to $3k pm! If you don't believe, it is Ok with me but you don't have to go around putting words that I didn't say into my mouth. Your intentions is all too clear for all to see.
Jealous? No. Think they can well-afford? No. Thinking they are damned stupid? Yes.
Is it any wonder that nowsadays we are seeing average earning women carrying genuine branded bags? Well, We need more of such people so that the high-end market/products can perform even better. The rich can sometimes appear to be stingy (in the eyes of the new generation), like Warren Buffett, said to be driving a Lincoln TownCar with a license plate that reads "THRIFTY" when he can afford a Royce Roll or most expensive Ferrari or equivalent!
Let me elaborate further. Have to tighten pocket by controlling monthly expenses within $3k to save here save there to afford Hermes.
Then Montaigne's sister can afford the same at such a young age. Of course very jealous lah.
Your nick reminds of "brown tonguing" - That is your favorite hobby or you born to be like that? Wakekekeeeeeeeeeeeeee. :p
Crawl into your shell, fringehead.
So? I know a few people here using different user names and their user names are not joined on the same day. Do you mean that makes them not the same people minus the fact? :rolleyes:
And you don't know there is really such thing as "coincidence"? Otherwise such word will not be available for your use. :tsk-tsk:
I know people who strike 4D many times. That cannot be due to other reasons than being just "coincidence" right? :beats-me-man:
Interesting ...... Do you know that both Teddybear & Melody not just always sing the same tune or song?
Both join this forum on the same day 2 Mar 2009. :scared-1:
What a perfect match.
What a coincidence!!!!!!
Think I had already clarified that the $3k pm expenditure is for household income of $8-10k pm, not referring to myself. I said it is possible because stripped off the luxury items (like expenses on Holidays, Hermes bags, etc), the expenditure can indeed be close to $3k pm! If you don't believe, it is Ok with me but you don't have to go around putting words that I didn't say into my mouth. Your intentions is all too clear for all to see.
Jealous? No. Think they can well-afford? No. Thinking they are damned stupid? Yes.
Is it any wonder that nowsadays we are seeing average earning women carrying genuine branded bags? Well, We need more of such people so that the high-end market/products can perform even better. The rich can sometimes appear to be stingy (in the eyes of the new generation), like Warren Buffett, said to be driving a Lincoln TownCar with a license plate that reads "THRIFTY" when he can afford a Royce Roll or most expensive Ferrari or equivalent!
The debate back in 2009 was about whether a couple earning $10k can afford a 1.2mil condo.
Let's revisit this again. Based on people I know & my past experience, this is how the spending will looks like.
Firstly, to buy a 1.2mill home you need to pay 20% downpayment. That is 240k & 30.6k of stamp fee. Total you need 270.6k of cash+cpf. Assuming the couple managed to save enough or borrow from parents to handle this. Let's look at the the other factors.
80% loan of 1.2mill is 960k. Tenor of 30yrs with 1.5% rate today, your mthly installment is 3.3k. Each earn 5k/mth, total is 10k. After minus cpf you have 8k.
If you're 35-45 years old, total CPF contribution is 36% of your pay. Out of these, 21% goes into ordinary account. This is the amount you can use to pay mortgage if this is your first home. For both you've 2.1k to pay your mortgage. The rest of 1.2k top up from cash.
After paying loan, you have 8k-1.2k=6.8k left.
You mentioned 3k living expense. Does it include car/transport, personal insurance, your parents allowance, children education, utility bill, phone bill, condo maintenance fee, maid salary?
But do you think this is realistic?
This is what a typical couple expense looks like (from people I know & spoke to):-
Car loan + road tax + petrol + parking $1.5k
Home cooking + expense for 2 pax $1.8k
Home, Fire + personal Insurance $1k
2 children expenses $1.4k (kindergarden/childcare + enrichment classes)
phone bill + cable tv + internet $120
utility bill $180
condo maintenance $300
Maid $650 (pay + levy)
Parent's allowance ????
This is already $6950. $6.8k minus $6950, money not enough. Never mind lah, squeeze here squeeze there, still can get through somehow.
But no savings every month.
Cannot afford to give parents allowance. How? Parents don't mind ok.But some do need money to see doctor and pocket money to spend. So quarrel every day. Must thing of ways to squeeze here squeeze there again. When year end bonus come, that's only time can give parent allowance.
Some will say sell away car lor. But still need to pay taxi/Bus/MRT. Total up maybe $800 for both + child transport to school. Finally have $700 balance can give some allowance to parents.
Pls don't tell me about some family living with 1.5k a month. They don't live in condo.
How to go for holiday like that? Got bonus mah. Why worry? Problem solved.
No savings every month. Scary isn't it. Crisis strike how?
The worst is when interest rate goes up after 2014, how?
2% interest is 3.5k mortgage installment monthly
2.5% is 3.8k
3% is 4k
Your hypothetical spending of 3k per month still stand? Please quote based on your experience and people you know.
Don't just imagine please.
Think I had already clarified that the $3k pm expenditure is for household income of $8-10k pm, not referring to myself. I said it is possible because stripped off the luxury items (like expenses on Holidays, Hermes bags, etc), the expenditure can indeed be close to $3k pm! If you don't believe, it is Ok with me but you don't have to go around putting words that I didn't say into my mouth. Your intentions is all too clear for all to see.
Jealous? No. Think they can well-afford? No. Thinking they are damned stupid? Yes.
Is it any wonder that nowsadays we are seeing average earning women carrying genuine branded bags? Well, We need more of such people so that the high-end market/products can perform even better. The rich can sometimes appear to be stingy (in the eyes of the new generation), like Warren Buffett, said to be driving a Lincoln TownCar with a license plate that reads "THRIFTY" when he can afford a Royce Roll or most expensive Ferrari or equivalent!
BTW although I don't encourage youngster to buy Hermes, but if they come from rich family who are you to stop them from buying?
Even if some really sell body, let the police deal with them.
So? I know a few people here using different user names and their user names are not joined on the same day. Do you mean that makes them not the same people minus the fact? :rolleyes:
And you don't know there is really such thing as "coincidence"? Otherwise such word will not be available for your use. :tsk-tsk:
I know people who strike 4D many times. That cannot be due to other reasons than being just "coincidence" right? :beats-me-man:
Don't need to explain lah.
The more you explain the worst it becomes.
felicia_sg
22-04-12, 10:26
I am a young family, and I found you figures a bit big on some items:
- I don't have car (because that is a luxury not necessity), so save $1.5k pm, bus+MRT very cheap only, 2 people $200.
- home cooking + expense: $1.2k pm
- Insurance total: $200 pm. For $50 pm, I can get about $500k of term-life insurance. Why need $1k pm?
- 1 child send to PCF, don't need enrichment class (that is a luxury not necessity), got helper don't need childcare, so say spend $400 pm.
- No parents' allowance as parents rich enough and don't want a single cent from me (but conversely they are not spoiling me by giving me money to enjoy life although they can well afford to, so my family has to work hard on our own).
So, reduce your figure by total $1.3k + $0.6k + $0.8k + $1k = $3.7k pm.
Holidays either Singapore or Malaysia only, not much, take from bonus money.
That means, if no luxury items, just basic necessities living = $6950 - 3700 = $3250 pm only. That is my real life experience. I don't feel like I am trying to squeeze here and there, may be it is a matter of habit. An analogy may be: If you are used to living around cow dung everyday, will you still feel that cow dung stink? :p
So what is wrong with frugal life style since we don't have luxury money to spend? Why must people spend money they don't have? Are the youngs utterly spoilt nowaday?
I hope others can contribute on their experience or their families and friends experience? Am I the odd one out as mentioned by PN or more the norm?
The debate back in 2009 was about whether a couple earning $10k can afford a 1.2mil condo.
Let's revisit this again. Based on people I know & my past experience, this is how the spending will looks like.
Firstly, to buy a 1.2mill home you need to pay 20% downpayment. That is 240k & 30.6k of stamp fee. Total you need 270.6k of cash+cpf. Assuming the couple managed to save enough or borrow from parents to handle this. Let's look at the the other factors.
80% loan of 1.2mill is 960k. Tenor of 30yrs with 1.5% rate today, your mthly installment is 3.3k. Each earn 5k/mth, total is 10k. After minus cpf you have 8k.
If you're 35-45 years old, total CPF contribution is 36% of your pay. Out of these, 21% goes into ordinary account. This is the amount you can use to pay mortgage if this is your first home. For both you've 2.1k to pay your mortgage. The rest of 1.2k top up from cash.
After paying loan, you have 8k-1.2k=6.8k left.
You mentioned 3k living expense. Does it include car/transport, personal insurance, your parents allowance, children education, utility bill, phone bill, condo maintenance fee, maid salary?
But do you think this is realistic?
This is what a typical couple expense looks like (from people I know & spoke to):-
Car loan + road tax + petrol + parking $1.5k
Home cooking + expense for 2 pax $1.8k
Home, Fire + personal Insurance $1k
2 children expenses $1.4k (kindergarden/childcare + enrichment classes)
phone bill + cable tv + internet $120
utility bill $180
condo maintenance $300
Maid $650 (pay + levy)
Parent's allowance ????
This is already $6950. $6.8k minus $6950, money not enough. Never mind lah, squeeze here squeeze there, still can get through somehow.
But no savings every month.
Cannot afford to give parents allowance. How? Parents don't mind ok.But some do need money to see doctor and pocket money to spend. So quarrel every day. Must thing of ways to squeeze here squeeze there again. When year end bonus come, that's only time can give parent allowance.
Some will say sell away car lor. But still need to pay taxi/Bus/MRT. Total up maybe $800 for both + child transport to school. Finally have $700 balance can give some allowance to parents.
Pls don't tell me about some family living with 1.5k a month. They don't live in condo.
How to go for holiday like that? Got bonus mah. Why worry? Problem solved.
No savings every month. Scary isn't it. Crisis strike how?
The worst is when interest rate goes up after 2014, how?
2% interest is 3.5k mortgage installment monthly
2.5% is 3.8k
3% is 4k
Your hypothetical spending of 3k per month still stand? Please quote based on your experience and people you know.
Don't just imagine please.
Let's engage in a more academic and less emotional debate ok ? :)
My opinion,
car loan should not be there. Runnig cost of a car monthly should be just 7-800
Insurance 1k a month , well, insurance company earns too much from this.
Home cooking NTUC cost should be 800 a month. 1800 u budget for 1k other expense already.
These 3 items combined should be 3k plus for a normal family...
U forgot bonus , that is used to pay yearly one off items, like road tax, insurance, tax, etc. 10k income, it's not unreasonable to assume a 20k bonus right ?
I still think 10k income can afford a 1.2m pty.
You are a lucky girl Felicia.
You have rich patents who don't need your support
I know of couples who need to support 4 parents (from both sides).
You have only 1 child. Getting ready for 2nd one?
You never take taxi at all? Not even once when you're in a hurry.
Care to share your family medical fees including child?
I didn't list out everything for simplicity. You can refer back to the old thread if you are interested.
More of such sharing is good.
buttercarp
22-04-12, 11:43
I still think 10k income can afford a 1.2m pty.
A bit of a squeeze, but can.
But I still think if income is $10k should just settle for HDB.
What's wrong with HDB.... the new ones look good.
For me I feel that the price of the house you can afford should be about 5-6x your annual income.
So if earn 10k per month- one year will earn $120k so should not spend more than $720k for a home.
I am very conservative and feel that the quality of life is very important and we should not be slave to our loans.
A bit of a squeeze, but can.
But I still think if income is $10k should just settle for HDB.
What's wrong with HDB.... the new ones look good.
For me I feel that the price of the house you can afford should be about 5-6x your annual income.
So if earn 10k per month- one year will earn $120k so should not spend more than $720k for a home.
I am very conservative and feel that the quality of life is very important and we should not be slave to our loans.That depends on how you apportion your loans? U might want to take loan even if u have cash so as to invest for a higher return than the low housing interest rates currently. :rolleyes: Yes you are relatively conservative but I guess its prudent... :cheers1:
Let's engage in a more academic and less emotional debate ok ? :)
My opinion,
car loan should not be there. Runnig cost of a car monthly should be just 7-800
Insurance 1k a month , well, insurance company earns too much from this.
Home cooking NTUC cost should be 800 a month. 1800 u budget for 1k other expense already.
These 3 items combined should be 3k plus for a normal family...
U forgot bonus , that is used to pay yearly one off items, like road tax, insurance, tax, etc. 10k income, it's not unreasonable to assume a 20k bonus right ?
I still think 10k income can afford a 1.2m pty.
You definitely sound like someone who dont even have a family or own a car. good try flunkies
buttercarp
22-04-12, 11:49
That depends on how you apportion your loans? U might want to take loan even if u have cash so as to invest for a higher return than the low housing interest rates currently. :rolleyes: Yes you are relatively conservative...
What happens if 3 years later, the interest rate goes up?
Then people may start selling their property.
If one borrows to the hilt, one will be in trouble.
A bit of a squeeze, but can.
But I still think if income is $10k should just settle for HDB.
What's wrong with HDB.... the new ones look good.
For me I feel that the price of the house you can afford should be about 5-6x your annual income.
So if earn 10k per month- one year will earn $120k so should not spend more than $720k for a home.
I am very conservative and feel that the quality of life is very important and we should not be slave to our loans.
The general rule of thumb is that an household should not spend more than 30% of their income on housing and 30% of your income should go into savings.
those who tell you otherwise are just kidding themselves.
You definitely sound like someone who dont even have a family or own a car. good try flunkies
Oh really ? :cool: would you demand me to show u a photo of my car ? :rolleyes:
Look this is not the kind of comment we used to have in this forum.
To buttercarp, I completely agree with you, that HDb is fine. It's a choice of lifestyle. IMO Gen Y generally do not share your view. House need to be condo, cars need to be BMW. Since HDB is becoming a vehicle of investment, it even starts to make sense to take profit from your entitlement
phantom_opera
22-04-12, 12:01
insurance 200pm with kid not enough, critical illness protection is a must. 8k income possible to buy 1.2m provided low interest rate, fat bonus, iron rice bowl, control expenses, high flying career
Oh really ? :cool: would you demand me to show u a photo of my car ? :rolleyes:
Look this is not the kind of comment we used to have in this forum.
To buttercarp, I completely agree with you, that HDb is fine. It's a choice of lifestyle. IMO Gen Y generally do not share your view. House need to be condo, cars need to be BMW. Since HDB is becoming a vehicle of investment, it even starts to make sense to take profit from your entitlement
With COE at $90K, the monthly depreciation of COE alone is already $750 per month regardless if you take loan or not. So please dont try to tell us that cost of owning a car is just about paying for running cost.
There is not need to prove that you own a car, because from what you said so far, it is easy to tell that you dont have one.
phantom_opera
22-04-12, 12:11
amk is the only guy playing corporate bond, give him some respect lah
buttercarp
22-04-12, 12:20
amk is the only guy playing corporate bond, give him some respect lah
Yup i too, think he is a respectable guy.
I don't know if he owns a car or not.
It does not matter if he does not own a car, why should it matter anyway?
This is not a car forum.
at the end of the day, still depend on one's risk appetite.. :ashamed1::ashamed1:
at the end of the day, still depend on one's risk appetite.. :ashamed1::ashamed1:
If 2 families with similar household income of $10K decides to buy a property today. 1 choose a HDB at $500K and the other a PC at $1.2m.
At the end of 10 years, which family do you think will be better off?
If 2 families with similar household income of $10K decides to buy a property today. 1 choose a HDB at $500K and the other a PC at $1.2m.
At the end of 10 years, which family do you think will be better off?
Given 10 years and if the family can sell anytime within the 10 years to capture the profits, CONFIRM PC win!
But I assume both got the best value when buying and selling la. If the PC buyer kanna con to buy something overpriced, we cant help lor.
Citeris Parabus - PC will do better.
DKSG
obvious ,right..
the one that choose the HDB lor...
A bit of a squeeze, but can.
But I still think if income is $10k should just settle for HDB.
What's wrong with HDB.... the new ones look good.
For me I feel that the price of the house you can afford should be about 5-6x your annual income.
So if earn 10k per month- one year will earn $120k so should not spend more than $720k for a home.
I am very conservative and feel that the quality of life is very important and we should not be slave to our loans.
agree, it is too risky to buy 1.2M property with 10k income....call me conservative, but i will only be comfortable with 14k income to buy a 1.2M house
Given 10 years and if the family can sell anytime within the 10 years to capture the profits, CONFIRM PC win!
But I assume both got the best value when buying and selling la. If the PC buyer kanna con to buy something overpriced, we cant help lor.
Citeris Parabus - PC will do better.
DKSG
I beg to differ actually. Assuming if both family have similar monthly expenses, by the end of 10 years, the one living in HDB flat would have got enough savings to buy a private condo while still able to hold on to the HDB flat. This will give them an extra rental income revenue.
For the family who own the $1.2m property, they will hardly have much savings for investment.
Let's engage in a more academic and less emotional debate ok ? :)
My opinion,
car loan should not be there. Runnig cost of a car monthly should be just 7-800
Insurance 1k a month , well, insurance company earns too much from this.
Home cooking NTUC cost should be 800 a month. 1800 u budget for 1k other expense already.
These 3 items combined should be 3k plus for a normal family...
U forgot bonus , that is used to pay yearly one off items, like road tax, insurance, tax, etc. 10k income, it's not unreasonable to assume a 20k bonus right ?
I still think 10k income can afford a 1.2m pty.
Car loan also need to be included.
If you need to pay $$$ every month of course cannot exclude what.
Income tax, property tax also need to be included.
agree, it is too risky to buy 1.2M property with 10k income....call me conservative, but i will only be comfortable with 14k income to buy a 1.2M house
Garmen already said $10k stay HDB, $12k stay EC and >$12k then stay PC or landed... there are a lot of factors to consider. Age, job security... was talking to someone who told me about saving for kids education. Because it is so tough to get into a local U now, must prepare for overseas education that can cost from $200k to $500k per child.
Importantly, one must be comfortable with the choice one made. If become too stress and quality of life is compromise, then what is the point?
Life is short. We plan for tomorrow but we must also enjoy today. :cheers4:
Car loan also need to be included.
If you need to pay $$$ every month of course cannot exclude what.
Income tax, property tax also need to be included.
I think what he is trying to say is that he can pay the car in full dont need to take loan. And he conveniently exclude the depreciating value of the car.
phantom_opera
22-04-12, 13:15
Actually I think amk is trying to help to point out that don't spend too much on car and insurance eg u can go for 2nd hand car
Want to share one real case.
He bought a condo at 800k few years ago. He is earning about 9k. Wife working but pay not much. So I would say total hoisehold income is 10.5k income.
He owns a car & has two kids. He has a maid. He told me he hardly has savings every month. Pay just enough to cover monthly expenses. Sometimes he drive to his parents hosue who lives nearby to have dinner.
His mortgage is mainly paid using CPF + less in cash initially.
Recently, his CPF has dried out so most of mortgage has to be paid in cash already.
Monthly expenses gets tighter with this.
So don't assume your CPF can last forever to cover most of it.
buttercarp
22-04-12, 13:19
Garmen already said $10k stay HDB, $12k stay EC and >$12k then stay PC or landed...
Yup, i agree with garmen on this issue.
Want to share one real case.
He bought a condo at 800k few years ago. He is earning about 9k. Wife working but pay not much. So I would say total hoisehold income is 10.5k income.
He owns a car & has two kids. He has a maid. He told me he hardly has savings every month. Pay just enough to cover monthly expenses. Sometimes he drive to his parents hosue who lives nearby to have dinner.
His mortgage is mainly paid using CPF + less in cash initially.
Recently, his CPF has dried out so most of mortgage has to be paid in cash already.
Monthly expenses gets tighter with this.
So don't assume your CPF can last forever to cover most of it.
Your friend could just remove the maid, to lessen the burden?
Is your friend still earning 9kSGD per month (Gross or Nett)?
Mine household is 7k+SGD with 2k++ (rental income); we are doing fine now.
Actually I think amk is trying to help to point out that don't spend too much on car and insurance eg u can go for 2nd hand car
what we are trying to point out that $700 per month is not enough to own a car here inSingapore and one shouldnt spend too much on housing.
buttercarp
22-04-12, 13:23
Want to share one real case.
He bought a condo at 800k few years ago. He is earning about 9k. Wife working but pay not much. So I would say total hoisehold income is 10.5k income.
He owns a car & has two kids. He has a maid. He told me he hardly has savings every month. Pay just enough to cover monthly expenses. Sometimes he drive to his parents hosue who lives nearby to have dinner.
His mortgage is mainly paid using CPF + less in cash initially.
Recently, his CPF has dried out so most of mortgage has to be paid in cash already.
Monthly expenses gets tighter with this.
So don't assume your CPF can last forever to cover most of it.
I can fully understand his predicament.
To live rather comfortably with 2 kids and a maid, 10k per month is barely enough.
phantom_opera
22-04-12, 13:23
So controlling expense on car, kid, eating out, travel, insurance is the key right ? Some want to eat at Dempsey or British club weekly, drive BMW, travel to Japan London ... Of course left very little for housing
Garmen already said $10k stay HDB, $12k stay EC and >$12k then stay PC or landed... there are a lot of factors to consider. Age, job security... was talking to someone who told me about saving for kids education. Because it is so tough to get into a local U now, must prepare for overseas education that can cost from $200k to $500k per child.
Importantly, one must be comfortable with the choice one made. If become too stress and quality of life is compromise, then what is the point?
Life is short. We plan for tomorrow but we must also enjoy today. :cheers4:
Great point. Something which many parents didn't prepare in advance.
Also there are many singles in this forum, so they may not have taken this into consideration.
Agree. Life is short.
Looks good with condo living but every month under stress. What for?
Great point. Something which many parents didn't prepared in advance.
Also there are many singles in this forum, so they may not have taken this into consideration.
Agree. Life is short.
Looks good with condo living but every month under stress. What for?
It is about expectation, a dream to live his/her way of life. My wife and myself are hoping to have our own private space, i.e. Landed property or a condominium with facilities exclusive to the community within.
phantom_opera
22-04-12, 13:45
what we are trying to point out that $700 per month is not enough to own a car here inSingapore and one shouldnt spend too much on housing.
A five year old Kia picanto was 25k last year, u can pay by cash
Want to share one real case.
He bought a condo at 800k few years ago. He is earning about 9k. Wife working but pay not much. So I would say total hoisehold income is 10.5k income.
He owns a car & has two kids. He has a maid. He told me he hardly has savings every month. Pay just enough to cover monthly expenses. Sometimes he drive to his parents hosue who lives nearby to have dinner.
His mortgage is mainly paid using CPF + less in cash initially.
Recently, his CPF has dried out so most of mortgage has to be paid in cash already.
Monthly expenses gets tighter with this.
So don't assume your CPF can last forever to cover most of it.
And therr's the withdrawal limit to look out for.
phantom_opera
22-04-12, 15:15
So family making 8 to 10k all slaves of bank and insurance co lol
Roof over your head liability, car even bigger liability, live in hdb better
It is about expectation, a dream to live his/her way of life. My wife and myself are hoping to have our own private space, i.e. Landed property or a condominium with facilities exclusive to the community within.
It is your life... You have the right to live it your way. Just be comfortable with your choices. For some of us, resources is limited. So we are face with constraints and choices. The choice you made may not sit down well with others because everyone has different views, values etc.
I brought my family to the zoo (really not cheap)... Some may say go to park lah... Free what.
We had a good time at the kids play area, riding the carousel, pony, house carriage. Then we went see the animals. When we arrive at the giraffe area, my kids asked to feed giraffe. It cost $5 for 5 pieces of veg. There was a family with kids asking to feed giraffe. The father does not look very happy with this request. The mother said "it is only $5".
I look at the dad... Busy taking pictures with his DSLR... Mummy trying to pacify the kids. He might be thinking I am an idiot, throwing $5 into the drain. Or he might think I am a lousy dad. Not teaching them the value of money and raising spoilt brats by giving in to their request.
Anyway, saw the family at the car park again. Whole family did not seem very happy.
The $5 could have been better spent. I could have spent this $5 to buy myself a latte. Feed giraffe?! Some forummer might think i am a carrot head. Worse, my kids might grow up to be spoilt brats because of this $5.
Anyway, the photos from my $300 auto-focus camera will probably not be as nice... but my kids were smiling in the pictures. Bottom line, choices and be happy with what you choose.
phantom_opera
22-04-12, 15:47
Zoo, feed animal, latte, even DSLR are small items, watch out for big items
4 cars in life - half a mio include interest, insurance, erp, parking etc
Silly ILP and endowment assume 15k per year over 30y another half a mio which u not sure u can get it back
Maid for 30y another half a mio
No wonder nothing left all give to pap
buttercarp
22-04-12, 15:56
When we arrive at the giraffe area, my kids asked to feed giraffe. It cost $5 for 5 pieces of veg. There was a family with kids asking to feed giraffe. The father does not look very happy with this request. The mother said "it is only $5".
I look at the dad... Busy taking pictures with his DSLR... Mummy trying to pacify the kids. He might be thinking I am an idiot, throwing $5 into the drain. Or he might think I am a lousy dad. Not teaching them the value of money and raising spoilt brats by giving in to their request.
Anyway, saw the family at the car park again. Whole family did not seem very happy.
The $5 could have been better spent. I could have spent this $5 to buy myself a latte. Feed giraffe?! Some forummer might think i am a carrot head. Worse, my kids might grow up to be spoilt brats because of this $5.
Anyway, the photos from my $300 auto-focus camera will probably not be as nice... but my kids were smiling in the pictures. Bottom line, choices and be happy with what you choose.
Since you brought this issue, I will relate how my dad brought me up.
If I had ask to feed the giraffe for $5 he would ask me to consider if it was worthwhile.
I am sure he would have said to me the following:
The giraffes are fed by the zoo.
The $5 is for them to make money out of you.
Won't it be better to buy yourself an ice cream?
However if feeding the giraffe will make you happy, then here is the $5 for the food, but you will have to forego the ice cream.
He can sell off the condo and move to hdb?
Sure he will get instant boost for his cpf and savings:)
Want to share one real case.
He bought a condo at 800k few years ago. He is earning about 9k. Wife working but pay not much. So I would say total hoisehold income is 10.5k income.
He owns a car & has two kids. He has a maid. He told me he hardly has savings every month. Pay just enough to cover monthly expenses. Sometimes he drive to his parents hosue who lives nearby to have dinner.
His mortgage is mainly paid using CPF + less in cash initially.
Recently, his CPF has dried out so most of mortgage has to be paid in cash already.
Monthly expenses gets tighter with this.
So don't assume your CPF can last forever to cover most of it.
Since you brought this issue, I will relate how my dad brought me up.
If I had ask to feed the giraffe for $5 he would ask me to consider if it was worthwhile.
I am sure he would have said to me the following:
The giraffes are fed by the zoo.
The $5 is for them to make money out of you.
Won't it be better to buy yourself an ice cream?
However if feeding the giraffe will make you happy, then here is the $5 for the food, but you will have to forego the ice cream.
better not turn this into a discussion of my parenting skill or lack of it... yes, bottomline is choose and be happy about it. ;)
Anyway, was neasrby showflat but did not detour... maybe next week. ;)
Want to share one real case.
He bought a condo at 800k few years ago. He is earning about 9k. Wife working but pay not much. So I would say total hoisehold income is 10.5k income.
He owns a car & has two kids. He has a maid. He told me he hardly has savings every month. Pay just enough to cover monthly expenses. Sometimes he drive to his parents hosue who lives nearby to have dinner.
His mortgage is mainly paid using CPF + less in cash initially.
Recently, his CPF has dried out so most of mortgage has to be paid in cash already.
Monthly expenses gets tighter with this.
So don't assume your CPF can last forever to cover most of it.
I suppose if you keep the deduction lower than the contribution, then the CPF should last, assuming the job is secured.
Ringo , ur tone is really offensive. This is not hardware zone, belittling others gains u no points.
Car should be paid in full, this is prudent spending. Petrol cost and running cost etc no more than 800. My 2.5l german ride cost less than 700 in petrol, the other japanese one even less. Depreciation ? If you count car depreciation as ur expense, u r totally missing the point of budgeting. How r u going to depreciate a FH pty then ? Car is big ticket expense you should save for, and better, aim for better investment returns and pay for it !
10k income, think about it, if close to 7k goes to expense, does it look prudent to you ? You should live your life based on your income. For a 10k income, monthly FIXED expense should not be 7k. It should be 3-4k, then you can have enough for savings and investment. Then you plan what you can live within 4k.
If you choose a lifestyle of 7k even though ur income is just 10k, that's a choice you make. You will have no investment opportunities. 10yr later the best you can get is just your cash savings, which is nothing. In the meantime if some one can plan the expense properly and invest prudently, 10y can have 2 pty cycles, you can earn 1 million. 800k loan has a mortgage of 3k, you do your maths.
Can a family of 4 live comfortably with 4k?
Actually I think amk is trying to help to point out that don't spend too much on car and insurance eg u can go for 2nd hand car
Thanks. Yes. Especially the 1k insurance , to me it's way over insured. NTUC simple term life for 20yrs of 2mil cost about 2.5k plus yearly for PN's sample 35-40.
Thanks. Yes. Especially the 1k insurance , to me it's way over insured. NTUC simple term life for 20yrs of 2mil cost about 2.5k plus yearly for PN's sample 35-40.
Do you think getting a term insurance is a better deal? 2.5kSGD per year seems a big sum for me.
Is there any better deal out there? As an Ex-NS men, am I still eligible for the Aviva group insurance?
My example of 2.5k a year is for a 2mil size. Not every one needs this size. You have to decide yourself.
Yes best deal is the safra group term. Just dump endowment, edu save, whatever.
My example of 2.5k a year is for a 2mil size. Not every one needs this size. You have to decide yourself.
Yes best deal is the safra group term. Just dump endowment, edu save, whatever.
I am confuse over personal term versus group term; I am worried the term and condition will come into play when filing claim (Touch Wood).
Could someone experience with this explain to me? TIA.
I am confuse over personal term versus group term; I am worried the term and condition will come into play when filing claim (Touch Wood).
Could someone experience with this explain to me? TIA.
yowetan, you have been doing research since last year. can share with us what you have discovered so far?
if you keep on expecting people to spoon feed you the data, how the shit are you going to be a cut above the rest if you are so damn dependent on others?
they have already pointed out to you the general direction..
yowetan, you have been doing research since last year. can share with us what you have discovered so far?
if you keep on expecting people to spoon feed you the data, how the shit are you going to be a cut above the rest if you are so damn dependent on others?
they have already pointed out to you the general direction..
Hi hopeful, I am asking bit and pieces in financial management, as well as property outlook etc. I have started to sound out and hear the voice(s) and feedback(s) in property outlook.
Today, I am asking amk on the insurance policy, and specifically on the Personal Term versus Group Term. I believe this is another unique query.
If you are uncomfortable in answering to my above unique and exclusive mutual query, you can choose to ignore. TIA.
4 cars in life - half a mio include interest, insurance, erp, parking etc
To some, this is what they worked for. Lambo, Porsche, Ferrari...
Maybe like what the guy interviewed in Sunday Times said... Must get yourself these things, then you will be driven to maintain the lifestyle.
:cheers3:
Hi hopeful, I am asking bit and pieces in financial management, as well as property outlook etc. I have started to sound out and hear the voice(s) and feedback(s) in property outlook.
Today, I am asking amk on the insurance policy, and specifically on the Personal Term versus Group Term. I believe this is another unique query.
If you are uncomfortable in answering to my above unique and exclusive mutual query, you can choose to ignore. TIA.
very irritating to hear a whiner.
most times, the wellspring of human kindness just run out if you keep drinking from it.
many times you mention, "i wish i can afford that property." "can I afford it?" etc.
very easy to calculate ma.
y * 40% (LTV 60%) + y * 3% (stamp duty) = 100.000 (your cash in hand)
so 0.43y = 100.000
y = 230.000
that is the condo price that you can afford if you are holding ur HDB.
if you sell your HDB, LTV become 80%.
y * 20% (LTV 80%) + y * 3% (stamp duty) = 200.000 (your cash in hand)
so 0.23y = 200.000
y = 870.000
that is the condo price you can afford if you sell ur HDB.
as to your income whether can afford, please dont believe us forummers. Forummers are not the one who is lending you the money, go ask a few banks to get the real answers, since they are the ones who is lending you the money.
as to insurance, i have mentioned in another thread that i paid under less than 10k a year for term, not because I cannot afford more, but insurance companies dont want to insure me further based on my income and assets, insurable interest they called it.
so not every tom dick harry can have term coverage for millions.
no need to thank me.
buttercarp
22-04-12, 18:29
very irritating to hear a whiner.
most times, the wellspring of human kindness just run out if you keep drinking from it.
many times you mention, "i wish i can afford that property." "can I afford it?" etc.
very easy to calculate ma.
y * 40% (LTV 60%) + y * 3% (stamp duty) = 100.000 (your cash in hand)
so 0.43y = 100.000
y = 230.000
that is the condo price that you can afford if you are holding ur HDB.
if you sell your HDB, LTV become 80%.
y * 20% (LTV 80%) + y * 3% (stamp duty) = 200.000 (your cash in hand)
so 0.23y = 200.000
y = 870.000
that is the condo price you can afford if you sell ur HDB.
as to your income whether can afford, please dont believe us forummers. Forummers are not the one who is lending you the money, go ask a few banks to get the real answers, since they are the ones who is lending you the money.
as to insurance, i have mentioned in another thread that i paid under less than 10k a year for term, not because I cannot afford more, but insurance companies dont want to insure me further based on my income and assets, insurable interest they called it.
so not every tom dick harry can have term coverage for millions.
no need to thank me.
Wow, hopeful has answered yowetan's questions!
Hooray!:jump-for-joy:
Ringo , ur tone is really offensive. This is not hardware zone, belittling others gains u no points.
Car should be paid in full, this is prudent spending. Petrol cost and running cost etc no more than 800. My 2.5l german ride cost less than 700 in petrol, the other japanese one even less. Depreciation ? If you count car depreciation as ur expense, u r totally missing the point of budgeting. How r u going to depreciate a FH pty then ? Car is big ticket expense you should save for, and better, aim for better investment returns and pay for it !
10k income, think about it, if close to 7k goes to expense, does it look prudent to you ? You should live your life based on your income. For a 10k income, monthly FIXED expense should not be 7k. It should be 3-4k, then you can have enough for savings and investment. Then you plan what you can live within 4k.
If you choose a lifestyle of 7k even though ur income is just 10k, that's a choice you make. You will have no investment opportunities. 10yr later the best you can get is just your cash savings, which is nothing. In the meantime if some one can plan the expense properly and invest prudently, 10y can have 2 pty cycles, you can earn 1 million. 800k loan has a mortgage of 3k, you do your maths.
Can a family of 4 live comfortably with 4k?
Let me ask you one simply question.
Based on an household income of $10k per month and a mortgage of 80%X1.2m, how much savings should this family will be able to set aside per month in order to pay a car in full after the end of 10 years, and yet have enough for family expenses and savings for children education and retirement etc.
Wow, hopeful has answered yowetan's questions!
Hooray!:jump-for-joy:
:eek: and smashed his dream!
:eek: and smashed his dream!
My dream is alive and shall always be alive.
My dream is alive and shall always be alive.
work hard at it...may it come true. Good luck!
:cheers4:
Let me ask you one simply question.
Based on an household income of $10k per month and a mortgage of 80%X1.2m, how much savings should this family will be able to set aside per month in order to pay a car in full after the end of 10 years, and yet have enough for family expenses and savings for children education and retirement etc.
For you, I guess the answer is 800 a month 10y later u will save 100k, rite ? That's how your monthly "expense" goes so high.
For me no. Such 800 a month is not an expense, it belongs to investment I must make, on whatever instrument I chose, such that 10ys later it should generate at the very least a yield hopefully > inflation.
You are just risk adverse, and a very "saver" mode. Nothing wrong with it
I beg to differ actually. Assuming if both family have similar monthly expenses, by the end of 10 years, the one living in HDB flat would have got enough savings to buy a private condo while still able to hold on to the HDB flat. This will give them an extra rental income revenue.
For the family who own the $1.2m property, they will hardly have much savings for investment.
it depends on what you are looking for in your question.
1) better off could means which one got more upside potential
2) which one got more savings
in my last 12 years of savings for a condo experience, my experience tells me for sure, the amount u save very hard to catch up at the rate the price rans away. those whom just buy, stretch themselves are laughing all way.
Life is as such, high risk high return. No way to be safe safe n get big big returns. during the time i m saving 500k for a 1m condo i see friend combine income $4k buy $400++k condo. will u think they are crazy? well their condo is $1m today. i also see someone earn $8k gross , bring out balls n buy condo $1m in CCR, 2 years later enbloc $2m.
so i have learned. keep an open mind, and listen to ideas of others. if one is already self made multi-millionaire(in the last 7 years) while sharing your idea here, you can be damn sure you are right. Otherwise, some theory have not pass thru the test of time yet.
As for those whom advocate spending first b4 accumulating wealth, dont be too sad after 30 years , one is still running the rat race.
while some figures our fellow bro quote is precious to the dot and what 90% of pple are doing, that doesnt mean its is the right thing to do. do u see more employees slogging for life or more pple achieving financial freedom. Have u meet someone who's family died of starvation cos he draw a 3-4k family income? IF not, saving and investing $5k month is definately possible. The option of preference here is whether want to live like a church mouse first and pay oneself first b4 anyone else.
He can sell off the condo and move to hdb?
Sure he will get instant boost for his cpf and savings:)
New rulings cannot buy hdb if have condo. And don't think he want to move hdb also.
I suppose if you keep the deduction lower than the contribution, then the CPF should last, assuming the job is secured
If you keep the monthly deduction lower than the contribution, it also means that you need to pay more cash for the installment.
Usually when you see some balance in your CPF after the 20% down payment, you will want to use it to pay the mortgage installment. So that's why it was was structured to use CPF more than cash initially.
speculator
22-04-12, 21:24
I beg to differ actually. Assuming if both family have similar monthly expenses, by the end of 10 years, the one living in HDB flat would have got enough savings to buy a private condo while still able to hold on to the HDB flat. This will give them an extra rental income revenue.
For the family who own the $1.2m property, they will hardly have much savings for investment.
I'm truly impressed. :doh: saving to buy a condo.
Yes, please continue saving and one day dream may come true :scared-4:
Hopefully not 80 or 90 already by then. :banghead:
Otherwise the saving could come in handy for funeral instead.
Want to share one real case.
He bought a condo at 800k few years ago. He is earning about 9k. Wife working but pay not much. So I would say total hoisehold income is 10.5k income.
He owns a car & has two kids. He has a maid. He told me he hardly has savings every month. Pay just enough to cover monthly expenses. Sometimes he drive to his parents hosue who lives nearby to have dinner.
His mortgage is mainly paid using CPF + less in cash initially.
Recently, his CPF has dried out so most of mortgage has to be paid in cash already.
Monthly expenses gets tighter with this.
So don't assume your CPF can last forever to cover most of it.
fast foward 20 years, where do u see this friend?
y dont u think differently, put aside 50% first to pay yourself. Then left with 5k, u decide what is important to you if u absolutely have to live within this limit. even if u choose 100% expense on that 50%. u will be fine. However if u still insist 10k should be spend your way, its not wrg also. the difference is , u chose to pay the car manufacturer, bank int, maid, life style restaurant, telco, internet scv, SP, travel agency b4 yourself and your family.
just some sharing......
speculator
22-04-12, 21:27
Life is as such, high risk high return. No way to be safe safe n get big big returns. during the time i m saving 500k for a 1m condo i see friend combine income $4k buy $400++k condo. will u think they are crazy? well their condo is $1m today. i also see someone earn $8k gross , bring out balls n buy condo $1m in CCR, 2 years later enbloc $2m.
:cheers4: very familiar story. Seen too many such examples.
saving to buy a condo is :doh: :doh: :doh:
in my last 12 years of savings for a condo experience, my experience tells me for sure, the amount u save very hard to catch up at the rate the price rans away. those whom just buy, stretch themselves are laughing all way.
this is exactly what is happening now.
let say one is able to loan $1m today and buy a $1.2m PC.
3-5 yrs down the road, loan maybe be increased to $1.2m but that same house is at least $1.5m or more.
everything goes up except income:banghead:
this is exactly what is happening now.
let say one is able to loan $1m today and buy a $1.2m PC.
3-5 yrs down the road, loan maybe be increased to $1.2m but that same house is at least $1.5m or more.
everything goes up except income:banghead:
The simple explanation is the value of money is being eroded by the printing press. Central governments in other countries are using it to suck your effort and savings secretly away so that their own citizens can live better.
it depends on what you are looking for in your question.
1) better off could means which one got more upside potential
2) which one got more savings
in my last 12 years of savings for a condo experience, my experience tells me for sure, the amount u save very hard to catch up at the rate the price rans away. those whom just buy, stretch themselves are laughing all way.
Life is as such, high risk high return. No way to be safe safe n get big big returns. during the time i m saving 500k for a 1m condo i see friend combine income $4k buy $400++k condo. will u think they are crazy? well their condo is $1m today. i also see someone earn $8k gross , bring out balls n buy condo $1m in CCR, 2 years later enbloc $2m.
so i have learned. keep an open mind, and listen to ideas of others. if one is already self made multi-millionaire(in the last 7 years) while sharing your idea here, you can be damn sure you are right. Otherwise, some theory have not pass thru the test of time yet.
As for those whom advocate spending first b4 accumulating wealth, dont be too sad after 30 years , one is still running the rat race.
while some figures our fellow bro quote is precious to the dot and what 90% of pple are doing, that doesnt mean its is the right thing to do. do u see more employees slogging for life or more pple achieving financial freedom. Have u meet someone who's family died of starvation cos he draw a 3-4k family income? IF not, saving and investing $5k month is definately possible. The option of preference here is whether want to live like a church mouse first and pay oneself first b4 anyone else.
You brought up an important factor which is guts. With guts, you can achieve your goal when others stay put.
But other important factors such as luck & timing also plays a part. En Bloc was hot at one stage. Now it's almost dead. And there are some who bought condo which got En Bloc later but still lose money.
Buy within one means & limits will not bring disaster to you & family. On the other hand, if you took a risk and hope for the best.... it depends.
If lady luck is not with you, you will get your whole family into deep deep trouble.
So weight the risk and make your own calculations.
Before I forget, your spouse also play an important role.
If you are the dominate one and the decision maker, you call the shot. Even if many say no and you think it's a yes, you either make it or break it. If you make it, you prove everyone wrong. If you fail, your family especially your spouse will curse you or worst divorce.
If it's 50-50, you may not get what you want because he/she will not agree to it. So no change, no impact.
If your spouse is the dominant one, even if you sees an opportunity but rejected, it's gone. Wait for the next opportunity.
speculator
22-04-12, 21:55
The simple explanation is the value of money is being eroded by the printing press. Central governments in other countries are using it to suck your effort and savings secretly away so that their own citizens can live better.
That's exactly it. QE1, QE2, LTRO and who knows what other fancy terms more to come. Legally print more money and make the rest of the world "suffer" for it and help ease their debt :banghead:
In current times, there are way to magically take money out of your account without you realising it. The same $1 you had in your saving is no longer worth the same $1 yesterday. Probably $0.50 and it's happening at a pace sooner than you know.
That's exactly it. QE1, QE2, LTRO and who knows what other fancy terms more to come. Legally print more money and make the rest of the world "suffer" for it and help ease their debt :banghead:
In current times, there are way to magically take money out of your account without you realising it. The same $1 you had in your saving is no longer worth the same $1 yesterday. Probably $0.50 and it's happening at a pace sooner than you know.
It works because US is still the world's military superpower. EU just follows, and Singapore has just donated $5 billion (tax payers' money) to EU.
felicia_sg
22-04-12, 22:06
I always plan ahead, thus seldom ever there is a need to take taxi.
Medical fees for child are minimal for outpatients, if there is need for major ones like hospitalization, it can be covered by medishield plan that I bought for my child since very young.
If you are talking about basic necessities, basically I have covered all the major items right? If we are talking about luxury, don't think there is any exhaustive list as the luxury things can be endless. Is it any wonder we hear those tai-tai divorcing and reveal that they spend >$1m a year on themselves?
You are a lucky girl Felicia.
You have rich patents who don't need your support
I know of couples who need to support 4 parents (from both sides).
You have only 1 child. Getting ready for 2nd one?
You never take taxi at all? Not even once when you're in a hurry.
Care to share your family medical fees including child?
I didn't list out everything for simplicity. You can refer back to the old thread if you are interested.
More of such sharing is good.
fast foward 20 years, where do u see this friend?
y dont u think differently, put aside 50% first to pay yourself. Then left with 5k, u decide what is important to you if u absolutely have to live within this limit. even if u choose 100% expense on that 50%. u will be fine. However if u still insist 10k should be spend your way, its not wrg also. the difference is , u chose to pay the car manufacturer, bank int, maid, life style restaurant, telco, internet scv, SP, travel agency b4 yourself and your family.
just some sharing......
I think the lesson learnt from this case is make sure you know what you getting into when buying a property. The right frame of mind is important. If lifestyle is spend and spend but didn't put some for rainy day, it is disaster in the making. When we talk about savings, it need not be all in the bank. It can partly bank and partly in other investments.
Prior financial planning is key. Both husband & wife must sit down and agree on the finer details of family financial planning for the future. If one of them is someone who spend money like water, make sure he/she agree to cut down on any unnecessary spending. For example, sell away car if can save on transport spending. But child education should not be compromise.
Back to the topic of 10k can affort 1.2mil or not, to be on the safe side my personal opinion is to restrict it to 800k or below. It can be hdb or EC. Especially for EC it is as good as PC. Lower risk and yet can enjoy the same condo living environment.
Starts at something which one is comfortable with. No point trying to proof to others he can make it also by buying into private condo.
When situation like my friend case happens, still can do some corrective action and damage control as it may still be manageble. If it is a 1.2mil property, the burden will be even worst. And luckily the interest rate is low today. If it is 3% or higher, the situation can be bad.
I think the lesson learnt from this case is make sure you know what you getting into when buying a property. The right frame of mind is important. If lifestyle is spend and spend but didn't put some for rainy day, it is disaster in the making. When we talk about savings, it need not be all in the bank. It can partly bank and partly in other investments.
Prior financial planning is key. Both husband & wife must sit down and agree on the finer details of family financial planning for the future. If one of them is someone who spend money like water, make sure he/she agree to cut down on any unnecessary spending. For example, sell away car if can save on transport spending. But child education should not be compromise.
Back to the topic of 10k can affort 1.2mil or not, to be on the safe side my personal opinion is to restrict it to 800k or below. It can be hdb or EC. Especially for EC it is as good as PC. Lower risk and yet can enjoy the same condo living environment.
Starts at something which one is comfortable with. No point trying to proof to others he can make it also by buying into private condo.
When situation like my friend case happens, still can do some corrective action and damage control as it may still be manageble. If it is a 1.2mil property, the burden will be even worst. And luckily the interest rate is low today. If it is 3% or higher, the situation can be bad.
I believe all of your and fellow forumer(s) theory applicable to first time house buyers. It is not possible for those who already had a PC to get an EC. The PC seller has to wait 30 months. Many thanks to the HDB flaw theory.
I always plan ahead, thus seldom ever there is a need to take taxi.
Medical fees for child are minimal for outpatients, if there is need for major ones like hospitalization, it can be covered by medishield plan that I bought for my child since very young.
If you are talking about basic necessities, basically I have covered all the major items right? If we are talking about luxury, don't think there is any exhaustive list as the luxury things can be endless. Is it any wonder we hear those tai-tai divorcing and reveal that they spend >$1m a year on themselves?Medishield plan requires you to pay the first $1500 or something and then you can only claim 50% of the remaining amount. Think you have to get a rider for this plan then you are fully covered! :rolleyes:
When we talk about savings, it need not be all in the bank. It can partly bank and partly in other investments.
But still must accumulate the capital for other investment... unless one has parents to help.
I am still saving for my 40%...
felicia_sg
22-04-12, 22:41
My medishield plan is the upgraded private as-charged plan, + rider for co-payments, only deductable not covered.
Medishield plan requires you to pay the first $1500 or something and then you can only claim 50% of the remaining amount. Think you have to get a rider for this plan then you are fully covered! :rolleyes:
it depends on what you are looking for in your question.
1) better off could means which one got more upside potential
2) which one got more savings
in my last 12 years of savings for a condo experience, my experience tells me for sure, the amount u save very hard to catch up at the rate the price rans away. those whom just buy, stretch themselves are laughing all way.
Life is as such, high risk high return. No way to be safe safe n get big big returns. during the time i m saving 500k for a 1m condo i see friend combine income $4k buy $400++k condo. will u think they are crazy? well their condo is $1m today. i also see someone earn $8k gross , bring out balls n buy condo $1m in CCR, 2 years later enbloc $2m.
so i have learned. keep an open mind, and listen to ideas of others. if one is already self made multi-millionaire(in the last 7 years) while sharing your idea here, you can be damn sure you are right. Otherwise, some theory have not pass thru the test of time yet.
As for those whom advocate spending first b4 accumulating wealth, dont be too sad after 30 years , one is still running the rat race.
while some figures our fellow bro quote is precious to the dot and what 90% of pple are doing, that doesnt mean its is the right thing to do. do u see more employees slogging for life or more pple achieving financial freedom. Have u meet someone who's family died of starvation cos he draw a 3-4k family income? IF not, saving and investing $5k month is definately possible. The option of preference here is whether want to live like a church mouse first and pay oneself first b4 anyone else.
Do you actually consider you roof above your head as an investment?
For you, I guess the answer is 800 a month 10y later u will save 100k, rite ? That's how your monthly "expense" goes so high.
For me no. Such 800 a month is not an expense, it belongs to investment I must make, on whatever instrument I chose, such that 10ys later it should generate at the very least a yield hopefully > inflation.
You are just risk adverse, and a very "saver" mode. Nothing wrong with it
Nope. I was referring what you said that cost of owning a car is only the running cost of about 700 per month because your car should be fully paid. Thats is not true because you need to factor in the depreciation as expenses.
Honestly how many people in singapore can afford to buy a car in cash without loan?
I think the lesson learnt from this case is make sure you know what you getting into when buying a property. The right frame of mind is important. If lifestyle is spend and spend but didn't put some for rainy day, it is disaster in the making. When we talk about savings, it need not be all in the bank. It can partly bank and partly in other investments.
Prior financial planning is key. Both husband & wife must sit down and agree on the finer details of family financial planning for the future. If one of them is someone who spend money like water, make sure he/she agree to cut down on any unnecessary spending. For example, sell away car if can save on transport spending. But child education should not be compromise.
Back to the topic of 10k can affort 1.2mil or not, to be on the safe side my personal opinion is to restrict it to 800k or below. It can be hdb or EC. Especially for EC it is as good as PC. Lower risk and yet can enjoy the same condo living environment.
Starts at something which one is comfortable with. No point trying to proof to others he can make it also by buying into private condo.
When situation like my friend case happens, still can do some corrective action and damage control as it may still be manageble. If it is a 1.2mil property, the burden will be even worst. And luckily the interest rate is low today. If it is 3% or higher, the situation can be bad.
thats exactly how my family got started after we got married. We bought an EC, utilize the government grant, 5 years later, we use our saving to buy our 2nd property with 20% down payment. And 5 years, we bought our 3rd property.
If we have started with a PC at 1.2m with our household income of 10K, we would definitely not have enough money to make that 20% payment for our 2nd property. FYI, the interest rate when we bought our first property was close to 3%.
While doing that, we still own a car and lead a comfortable life without having to worry too much about mortgage because its fully paid for by CPF.
thats exactly how my family got started after we got married. We bought an EC, utilize the government grant, 5 years later, we use our saving to buy our 2nd property with 20% down payment. And 5 years, we bought our 3rd property.
If we have started with a PC at 1.2m with our household income of 10K, we would definitely not have enough money to make that 20% payment for our 2nd property. FYI, the interest rate when we bought our first property was close to 3%.
While doing that, we still own a car and lead a comfortable life without having to worry too much about mortgage because its fully paid for by CPF.
bro ringo, have u consider the possibility that the 1.2m property you bought 10 years ago, you could have sold in and have fully paid up 3 condos today? cos my guru mentor only bought a 800k in CCR condo 7 years ago. now he turn a few times realised profit about 3m already..... and reposition into 1 CCR , 1 RCR plus holding few hundred k cash ready to pounce if any weakness comes.
bro ringo, have u consider the possibility that the 1.2m property you bought 10 years ago, you could have sold in and have fully paid up 3 condos today? cos my guru mentor only bought a 800k in CCR condo 7 years ago. now he turn a few times realised profit about 3m already..... and reposition into 1 CCR , 1 RCR plus holding few hundred k cash ready to pounce if any weakness comes.
Nope, because I will not be able to afford a 1.2m property even with an household income of 10K. Especially with mortgage interest rate of about 3%.
It is always easy to look back and say I could have done this or that etc. buying property sometime requires a bit of luck as timing is extremely important.
If you buy a property in CCR right now, do you think you will be able to make 3 folds in 7 years?
Nope, because I will not be able to afford a 1.2m property even with an household income of 10K. Especially with mortgage interest rate of about 3%.
It is always easy to look back and say I could have done this or that etc. buying property sometime requires a bit of luck as timing is extremely important.
If you buy a property in CCR right now, do you think you will be able to make 3 folds in 7 years?
actually you can. with based on 1.2m loan, 3% interest 30year loan, the monthly replayment is $5059.25. last time cpf contribution is 40% but lets revert to todays situation,36% of which 23% OA cap at $5k income. so its 1k each from OA from you and wife. Thats 2k from $5059 with cash top up $3059k.
anyway i m not questioning your facts in your life. The point i wanna make is while some doesnt not see its necessary to live like a church mouse and "over-commit" to a $1.2m property based on $10k income, It is possible to do it.
looking back its always easy to say i should have done it.
But do u not deny, 10 years ago, if the decision is to go for $1.2m in orchard/d9 /d10,d11 and not spend on the luxury things for a few years, things could be very very different? but there is not point saying such thing , i m with u on luck n timing.
IF didnt buy CCR 10 years ago $1.2m, there is not point asking if u buy a CCR today do u think can make 3 folds. If my answer to u is yes can make 3 folds, but the property now cost $7m, is there anything we can do about it? We are priced out of the game anyway. if a luxury property in london , one hype park can sell for $6000 pound, what is not possible?
so i would like to end my view on the above matter as the strongly debated matter is whether it can be done.
actually you can. with based on 1.2m loan, 3% interest 30year loan, the monthly replayment is $5059.25. last time cpf contribution is 40% but lets revert to todays situation,36% of which 23% OA cap at $5k income. so its 1k each from OA from you and wife. Thats 2k from $5059 with cash top up $3059k.
anyway i m not questioning your facts in your life. The point i wanna make is while some doesnt not see its necessary to live like a church mouse and "over-commit" to a $1.2m property based on $10k income, It is possible to do it.
looking back its always easy to say i should have done it.
But do u not deny, 10 years ago, if the decision is to go for $1.2m in orchard/d9 /d10,d11 and not spend on the luxury things for a few years, things could be very very different? but there is not point saying such thing , i m with u on luck n timing.
IF didnt buy CCR 10 years ago $1.2m, there is not point asking if u buy a CCR today do u think can make 3 folds. If my answer to u is yes can make 3 folds, but the property now cost $7m, is there anything we can do about it? We are priced out of the game anyway. if a luxury property in london , one hype park can sell for $6000 pound, what is not possible?
so i would like to end my view on the above matter as the strongly debated matter is whether it can be done.
hey dude, please give me a break here. there is no way any sane newly wed is going to put 50% of their income in property. To me, the roof above my head is pretty much a roof above my head period.
Like I said, assuming you are newly wed in your 20s and your household income is 10K, will you put 50% of your income into your own home and pay 3% in interest on your property.
To be honest, if I sell my all my property today, I would have about $3m in my bank account. But then again, cash in bank is a depreciating assets if you couldnt make a return better than inflation.
Like I have ask you again Will YOU, put 50% of your household income into property today to buy a property in CCR and expecting to make 3 fold in 7 years?
Let make it clear. Whatever we are discussion now is about today, not about 7 years ago.
Please don't argue n debate anymore. You two have your points for your own basis though two of you have different basis and hence leading to disagreement.
One is talking about it is not prudent to take up a 1.2m loan for a owned stayed property while another is talking about it is possible to take up a 1.2m loan with $10k household income.
Conclusion: Both are correct with your own basis which is different from each other. Wise forumer can make their own judgement about their choice and lifestyle they want to adopt
Let's move on. Otherwise, no end to this argument since various forumers have discussed and argued for the same things over the last few days!
hey dude, please give me a break here. there is no way any sane newly wed is going to put 50% of their income in property. To me, the roof above my head is pretty much a roof above my head period.
Like I said, assuming you are newly wed in your 20s and your household income is 10K, will you put 50% of your income into your own home and pay 3% in interest on your property.
To be honest, if I sell my all my property today, I would have about $3m in my bank account. But then again, cash in bank is a depreciating assets if you couldnt make a return better than inflation.
Like I have ask you again Will YOU, put 50% of your household income into property today to buy a property in CCR and expecting to make 3 fold in 7 years?
Let make it clear. Whatever we are discussion now is about today, not about 7 years ago.
Yo bro, congrats on sitting on a fat fat pile of profits, only pple with balls will make that kind of profits. The dicussion wasnt personal directed at u or your situation. It's surrounding a 10k income on 1.2m loan if it's possible.
To answer your qn, yes I believe today the value is in CCR. No I don't expect 3 in 7 yrs. If I say yes, I will not be a honest person. Will 1 put 50% , Yup I committed to it ard 2 hrs back, but my income increase so it's lesser than 50 now compared to 2 years ago. To be fair, u r right, only 1 with exception ball will do it. Out of all my friend, only my property mentor did it. The rest took the same premium n drive 5 series n e class. After 7-8 year of changing cars, I see they are still very much where they are.
So if u don't mind, I would end my views on the above topic, that u r not wrong it will be very uncomfortable stretch, doing it now would be harder to find much meat, but would u disagrees 50% spend on property would be a lesser evil n will reap rewards in the long term?
Have a great wk ahead
Please don't argue n debate anymore. You two have your points for your own basis though two of you have different basis and hence leading to disagreement.
One is talking about it is not prudent to take up a 1.2m loan for a owned stayed property while another is talking about it is possible to take up a 1.2m loan with $10k household income.
Conclusion: Both are correct with your own basis which is different from each other. Wise forumer can make their own judgement about their choice and lifestyle they want to adopt
Let's move on. Otherwise, no end to this argument since various forumers have discussed and argued for the same things over the last few days!
Welcome heehee to the forum. U must be feeling quiet happy :cheers5:
I think the biggest insane thing is for newly wed to spend 50% of their $10k monthly income on living expenses (note that money into property is "investment", not "expenses")! :p
I think previously, many forumers have already illustrated that their basic household expenses in Singapore is about $3k+ pm, that means a $10k pm income can comfortably save >$6.5k pm (we have not talked about employer CPF contribution & bonuses yet, Add those in will be more, never mind, we ignore them as a buffer).
What is wrong with spending $5k pm for property instalment? You are paying for long-term investment, better than putting those money into endowment funds, whole-life insurance policies, ILPs or in the banks etc! :doh:
And property is the one and only investment which requires least "timing" compared to stocks! Just buy a reasonably priced one and hold for 10 years and more and they will appreciate in value! (if don't appreciate you know who to vote :p :ashamed1:, especially the one who cause property price to crash, ha ha!).
hey dude, please give me a break here. there is no way any sane newly wed is going to put 50% of their income in property. To me, the roof above my head is pretty much a roof above my head period.
Like I said, assuming you are newly wed in your 20s and your household income is 10K, will you put 50% of your income into your own home and pay 3% in interest on your property.
To be honest, if I sell my all my property today, I would have about $3m in my bank account. But then again, cash in bank is a depreciating assets if you couldnt make a return better than inflation.
Like I have ask you again Will YOU, put 50% of your household income into property today to buy a property in CCR and expecting to make 3 fold in 7 years?
Let make it clear. Whatever we are discussion now is about today, not about 7 years ago.
Thank you. :)
Why you say I feeling quietly happy? :confused:
Welcome heehee to the forum. U must be feeling quiet happy :cheers5:
Thank you. :)
Why you say I feeling quietly happy? :confused:
Your nick ;)
I think the biggest insane thing is for newly wed to spend 50% of their $10k monthly income on living expenses (note that money into property is "investment", not "expenses")! :p
I think previously, many forumers have already illustrated that their basic household expenses in Singapore is about $3k+ pm, that means a $10k pm income can comfortably save >$6.5k pm (we have not talked about employer CPF contribution & bonuses yet, Add those in will be more, never mind, we ignore them as a buffer).
What is wrong with spending $5k pm for property instalment? You are paying for long-term investment, better than putting those money into endowment funds, whole-life insurance policies, ILPs or in the banks etc! :doh:
I actually agree here. For newly weds, their expenses (after renovating and equipping their place) will not be v. high. Even lower if living with parents. After all, no need to do the courting game anymore. Just concentrate of saving up for the next property and the kids. Unnecessary expenses like eating out, clubbing, high-end holidays, shoes, HANDBAGS, can be cut. (sorry to those who support Birkins and the like).
Please don't argue n debate anymore. You two have your points for your own basis though two of you have different basis and hence leading to disagreement.
One is talking about it is not prudent to take up a 1.2m loan for a owned stayed property while another is talking about it is possible to take up a 1.2m loan with $10k household income.
Conclusion: Both are correct with your own basis which is different from each other. Wise forumer can make their own judgement about their choice and lifestyle they want to adopt
Let's move on. Otherwise, no end to this argument since various forumers have discussed and argued for the same things over the last few days!
i think it is possible although it will get tighter once u have kids. Still quite comfortable on this if continue to work
Trust me I have seen many newly weds, household income less than 5k, committing to 400k-500k hdb, another 40-50k Reno loan, plus $$$ honeymoon tours signed using cc and they don't come from well to do families. There were so much of such people that I see it as a norm.
Some lagi hero - household income less than 4k committing 400k hdb:beats-me-man:
phantom_opera
23-04-12, 09:53
Trust me I have seen many newly weds, household income less than 5k, committing to 400k-500k hdb, another 40-50k Reno loan, plus $$$ honeymoon tours signed using cc and they don't come from well to do families. There were so much of such people that I see it as a norm.
Some lagi hero - household income less than 4k committing 400k hdb:beats-me-man:
You are right on ... if family income 10k taking 1.2m PC is risky, family income 5k taking 600k Bishan resale HDB is equally risky
Conclusion ... no risk no gain ... it is t risky but could be rewarding
And depending on # of kids ... each kid you must remove at least 1k from your montly investment
I am going to toss some things for your guys to think about...
In the next 10 year or so(it is already happening), you will be seeing more parents will assist their kids foot part of the down payment for HDB or PC. I do agree with you guys that salary increase has not caught up with property, but those who are in their 40s and 50s are worried about their kids. This class of people are the sandwich group. Parents require them to support them and children are demanding. The group of people are now saving and preparing to assist their children in their pursuit of happiness. Unlike the forefathers before them. So guess what is going to happen???
thomastansb
23-04-12, 10:12
If you buy at 1700 psf for Bishan, it is far risker than if you had bought 1700 psf for eg: Icon. And Icon provides 4-5 years of rental.
You are right on ... if family income 10k taking 1.2m PC is risky, family income 5k taking 600k Bishan resale HDB is equally risky
Conclusion ... no risk no gain ... it is t risky but could be rewarding
And depending on # of kids ... each kid you must remove at least 1k from your montly investment
....... you will be seeing more parents will assist their kids foot part of the down payment for HDB or PC.
During '09 already happening, they bring their parents along during the 2nd viewing at launches. It's the parents opening the cheque books.
My colleague was talking about her bro going steady with his gf for quite a while & hoping to afford a place before deciding to get married, guess what? The father offered to pay for dp cos he wanted to see his son quickly settle down. They pick up a 2bedder. Si beh song...
I am going to toss some things for your guys to think about...
In the next 10 year or so(it is already happening), you will be seeing more parents will assist their kids foot part of the down payment for HDB or PC. I do agree with you guys that salary increase has not caught up with property, but those who are in their 40s and 50s are worried about their kids. This class of people are the sandwich group. Parents require them to support them and children are demanding. The group of people are now saving and preparing to assist their children in their pursuit of happiness. Unlike the forefathers before them. So guess what is going to happen???
Don't have to think, it is already a fact.
There is no way my kids can afford to buy a hdb.:doh:
Don't have to think, it is already a fact.
There is no way my kids can afford to buy a hdb.:doh:
Your kid/s can afford a hdb my friend. With your help. You are in this forum to understand and to plan. You have already determined it is a fact and you have already decided to save and invest for the eventuality when you have to support your kid/s. Well done !
Don't have to think, it is already a fact.
There is no way my kids can afford to buy a hdb.:doh:
Dr House, don't worry, your kids will be brilliant and they will curse HDB because their income over shoot the bracket n they will not be allowed to purchase 1.
Thank you. :)
Why you say I feeling quietly happy? :confused:
Heehee smiley nick
phantom_opera
23-04-12, 11:33
It is already happening ... recently ST interviewed The Hillier's buyer. ... one of this Mr Ng or Dr Ng bought 2 units for children
And he said The Hillier is reasonably priced :simmering:
But recent BTO at Machpherson MRT 450k for a decent 4 room HDB 90sqm... not too expensive imo
Dr House, don't worry, your kids will be brilliant and they will curse HDB because their income over shoot the bracket n they will not be allowed to purchase 1.
If they don't qualify for hdb, this will be the worst scenario.
In sg, life is better for those at the rock bottom and of cos the top....the middle class is screwed 100x over.:simmering:
Honestly how many people in singapore can afford to buy a car in cash without loan?
It's a matter of saving hard in the beginning. Car loan is the loan you should never take. 3k saving a month just 3yrs you can get a decent car. Many ppl take the car loan right at the 1st year of their job and count "depreciation per year" to make themselves happy that "I'm going to save $$$ per month for a car anyway so why not enjoy first and just pay monthly a little more".
you have to separate the real "expense" from the so called monthly 7k "expense":
1) those "paid" for insurance, well, the real protection part is very little I can assure you, the "investment" part form the bulk of it. Imagine a 2mil life term is only 200 plus a month, how much does your 1k "insurance" cost monthly really go to ? I would imagine 800 out of it is for investment purpose, that you are being forced to do it with insurance company. Dun do that.
2) those "saved" for retirement: you should invest for retirement not save for it. the cash saved will be wiped out totally by inflation
3) those "saved" for child education: this is nothing more than an endowment policy which is again really an investment you are buying. do it yourself.
etc
By taking out all these, your real monthly "expense" is not that high, <4k. which is completely in line with a 10k income household. For the balance, you plan what kind of investment you should do. Pty is just one vehicle. You can always choose others. But dun discount ppl choosing pty as the main vehicle. After all, look around you, especially in Asia, pty investment is the most common way to get rich for ordinary folks (all thanks to Asian's esp Chinese obsession with face and pty).
phantom_opera
23-04-12, 12:22
If they don't qualify for hdb, this will be the worst scenario.
In sg, life is better for those at the rock bottom and of cos the top....the middle class is screwed 100x over.:simmering:
Good summary lol :cheers1:
As I said, for middle class,
1. pay half a million over 30y for 4 cars
2. pay half a million over 30y for maid (maid levy, agency fee, insurance, GP, maid salary .., occasionally send maid back home)
3. pay half a million over 30y for HDB
4. pay half a million over 30y to be cheated by insurance co
Nothing left :scared-3:
Good summary lol :cheers1:
As I said, for middle class,
1. pay half a million over 30y for 4 cars
2. pay half a million over 30y for maid (maid levy, agency fee, insurance, GP, maid salary .., occasionally send maid back home)
3. pay half a million over 30y for HDB
4. pay half a million over 30y to be cheated by insurance co
Nothing left :scared-3:
I think we worried too much for these people already.
Got rich parents to buy a roof for them. No worries lah. :D :D :D
During '09 already happening, they bring their parents along during the 2nd viewing at launches. It's the parents opening the cheque books.
My colleague was talking about her bro going steady with his gf for quite a while & hoping to afford a place before deciding to get married, guess what? The father offered to pay for dp cos he wanted to see his son quickly settle down. They pick up a 2bedder. Si beh song...
Maybe that's why OCR properties are selling like hotcakes. Parents will only agree to foot the downpayment if the property is near them.
You think daddy and mummy will offer to foot the down payment if the kids are buying a property far far away from them?
5K monthly housing instalment is a long term commitment. It is different from spending 5K per month on household expense. expenses can be reduced during the down cycle, not housing loan. Unable to service the 5k/mth instalment, the person can go bankrupt.
I think the biggest insane thing is for newly wed to spend 50% of their $10k monthly income on living expenses (note that money into property is "investment", not "expenses")! :p
I think previously, many forumers have already illustrated that their basic household expenses in Singapore is about $3k+ pm, that means a $10k pm income can comfortably save >$6.5k pm (we have not talked about employer CPF contribution & bonuses yet, Add those in will be more, never mind, we ignore them as a buffer).
What is wrong with spending $5k pm for property instalment? You are paying for long-term investment, better than putting those money into endowment funds, whole-life insurance policies, ILPs or in the banks etc! :doh:
And property is the one and only investment which requires least "timing" compared to stocks! Just buy a reasonably priced one and hold for 10 years and more and they will appreciate in value! (if don't appreciate you know who to vote :p :ashamed1:, especially the one who cause property price to crash, ha ha!).
yup i can attest for that. Knew a female friend '85. BF '84 bot 10k diamond ring, n they jointly bot a 1.2mil+ condo. Throwing in wedding, honeymoon etc.. the cost involved is really unthinkable.
yup i can attest for that. Knew a female friend '85. BF '84 bot 10k diamond ring, n they jointly bot a 1.2mil+ condo. Throwing in wedding, honeymoon etc.. the cost involved is really unthinkable.
I'm really an out dated, mudhead, stupid old man lagging behind in this tiny Country.
From what I'm reading here, not only 10k can afford 1.2mil condo;
8k household income also can afford already.
No money for monthly installment, just need to go ask daddy & mummy to help. What's the problem? :rolleyes:
phantom_opera
23-04-12, 14:20
500k wedding showcase in ST recently :eek:
500k wedding showcase in ST recently :eek:
Why need to spend so much money on wedding? Just elope and get married in some far away place. ;)
500k wedding showcase in ST recently :eek:
Must be Peanuts to them lah. :ashamed1:
buttercarp
23-04-12, 14:34
Why need to spend so much money on wedding? Just elope and get married in some far away place. ;)
Agreed.
Eloping is so fun.
No cares and worries.
Just the 2 of us.
I hope the tradition I have set will continue.
I think the biggest insane thing is for newly wed to spend 50% of their $10k monthly income on living expenses (note that money into property is "investment", not "expenses")! :p
I think previously, many forumers have already illustrated that their basic household expenses in Singapore is about $3k+ pm, that means a $10k pm income can comfortably save >$6.5k pm (we have not talked about employer CPF contribution & bonuses yet, Add those in will be more, never mind, we ignore them as a buffer).
What is wrong with spending $5k pm for property instalment? You are paying for long-term investment, better than putting those money into endowment funds, whole-life insurance policies, ILPs or in the banks etc! :doh:
And property is the one and only investment which requires least "timing" compared to stocks! Just buy a reasonably priced one and hold for 10 years and more and they will appreciate in value! (if don't appreciate you know who to vote :p :ashamed1:, especially the one who cause property price to crash, ha ha!).
I have to agree with Teddy, i think spending 50% of your income on a reasonably priced condo in a good location is ok...
Work hard, work smart, bear with the at times uncomfortable financial constraints over these 5-10 years and you are set for life....
Newly wed - 30 years olds.....
10 years later, 1/3 of the condo paid up, Price appreciate 25%
Both newly wed income prob double (with promotion)...
So actually you just need to grind your teeth and bear with it for about 5 years, after which it get easier and you have positive equity in your condo and only then....... then you start thinking about spending a BIT on the finer things in life....
Imagine if a newly wed dont buy a car (at least 1.5k per month) and spend less on luxury items (0.5k per month) and restaurants (0.8k per month) TOTAL = almost 3k per month !!!!! Why cannot buy CONDO?????
The problem with Gen Y is they want everything immediately.... Have the Cake and eat it too..... Too bad they world doesnt work this way... Only a few lucky and smart ones that get poach by large investment banks can do it
Eldenfirefly
23-04-12, 15:32
During '09 already happening, they bring their parents along during the 2nd viewing at launches. It's the parents opening the cheque books.
My colleague was talking about her bro going steady with his gf for quite a while & hoping to afford a place before deciding to get married, guess what? The father offered to pay for dp cos he wanted to see his son quickly settle down. They pick up a 2bedder. Si beh song...
This. This is more common these days. Its almost like a marriage proposal. One parent/ or parents, use the excuse of viewing a new launch place for investment. Get the young couple to go with them to "help" make decision. Then, at the launch, ask them if they like this unit, or that unit, then offer to pay the deposit and buy it in their name.
If you agree to it, then basically, you are agreeing to getting married liao. Win already. Mainly for the parents with the money lah. lol
This. This is more common these days. Its almost like a marriage proposal. One parent/ or parents, use the excuse of viewing a new launch place for investment. Get the young couple to go with them to "help" make decision. Then, at the launch, ask them if they like this unit, or that unit, then offer to pay the deposit and buy it in their name.
If you agree to it, then basically, you are agreeing to getting married liao. Win already. Mainly for the parents with the money lah. lol
Anyone want godson??
I have to agree with Teddy, i think spending 50% of your income on a reasonably priced condo in a good location is ok...
Work hard, work smart, bear with the at times uncomfortable financial constraints over these 5-10 years and you are set for life....
Newly wed - 30 years olds.....
10 years later, 1/3 of the condo paid up, Price appreciate 25%
Both newly wed income prob double (with promotion)...
So actually you just need to grind your teeth and bear with it for about 5 years, after which it get easier and you have positive equity in your condo and only then....... then you start thinking about spending a BIT on the finer things in life....
Imagine if a newly wed dont buy a car (at least 1.5k per month) and spend less on luxury items (0.5k per month) and restaurants (0.8k per month) TOTAL = almost 3k per month !!!!! Why cannot buy CONDO?????
The problem with Gen Y is they want everything immediately.... Have the Cake and eat it too..... Too bad they world doesnt work this way... Only a few lucky and smart ones that get poach by large investment banks can do it
Doesnt help when state media always feature and glamourise such lucky young ones. Young entrepreneur drives Lambo and owns penthouse in Orchard etc etc...
500k wedding showcase in ST recently :eek:
You ask them why they so hao lian and they will reply with cosmetic brand tagline....
I actually agree here. For newly weds, their expenses (after renovating and equipping their place) will not be v. high. Even lower if living with parents. After all, no need to do the courting game anymore. Just concentrate of saving up for the next property and the kids. Unnecessary expenses like eating out, clubbing, high-end holidays, shoes, HANDBAGS, can be cut. (sorry to those who support Birkins and the like).
You make marriage sound like the apocalypse. Where anything fun and interesting is poof. No wonder I still happily single...
I have to agree with Teddy, i think spending 50% of your income on a reasonably priced condo in a good location is ok...
Work hard, work smart, bear with the at times uncomfortable financial constraints over these 5-10 years and you are set for life....
Newly wed - 30 years olds.....
10 years later, 1/3 of the condo paid up, Price appreciate 25%
Both newly wed income prob double (with promotion)...
So actually you just need to grind your teeth and bear with it for about 5 years, after which it get easier and you have positive equity in your condo and only then....... then you start thinking about spending a BIT on the finer things in life....
Imagine if a newly wed dont buy a car (at least 1.5k per month) and spend less on luxury items (0.5k per month) and restaurants (0.8k per month) TOTAL = almost 3k per month !!!!! Why cannot buy CONDO?????
The problem with Gen Y is they want everything immediately.... Have the Cake and eat it too..... Too bad they world doesnt work this way... Only a few lucky and smart ones that get poach by large investment banks can do it
Brought up & used to live like prince & princess.
When they married, don't expect them to change and make a sudden U-turn. That's the way they live their life.
So it's already a norm for them to have the cake and eat it. Maybe you also old already and don't really understand them. So in short, 10k still not enough to buy 1.2mil PC. But with parents support, impossible also becomes possible.
Even our government is also trying very hard to understand and win them over. I'm also learning.
I've two girls, I've been teaching them the same traditional old way my parents have taught me. Don't waste food, don't buy unnecessary things, don't this, don't that. If they did well in school, I reward them with a hug or kiss :ashamed1: & an oversea trip at year end. If they don't behave, I'll ground them at home.
Got to make sure my good family values is passed down to them and teach them the right values in life although I know they will still change when they grow up with their own circles of friends.
But I also spoilt them by bringing them for oversea trip yearly. :doh: Although my main purpose is to open their horizon and get them expose to different things and other cultures. So I'm also a culprit.
I'm still trying ....... to be a good father.
But one thing for sure.... mine are both girls so I don't need to pay to buy PC for them when they get married. What a shameless old man I am. :D
Why need to spend so much money on wedding? Just elope and get married in some far away place. ;)
Agreed.
Eloping is so fun.
No cares and worries.
Just the 2 of us.
I hope the tradition I have set will continue.
i prefer this...less hassle..
:ashamed1:
Brought up & used to live like prince & princess.
When they married, don't expect them to change and make a sudden U-turn. That's the way they live their life.
So it's already a norm for them to have the cake and eat it. Maybe you also old already and don't really understand them. So in short, 10k still not enough to buy 1.2mil PC. But with parents support, impossible also becomes possible.
Even our government is also trying very hard to understand and win them over. I'm also learning.
I've two girls, I've been teaching them the same traditional old way my parents have taught me. Don't waste food, don't buy unnecessary things, don't this, don't that. If they did well in school, I reward them with a hug or kiss :ashamed1: & an oversea trip at year end. If they don't behave, I'll ground them at home.
Got to make sure my good family values is passed down to them and teach them the right values in life although I know they will still change when they grow up with their own circles of friends.
But I also spoilt them by bringing them for oversea trip yearly. :doh: Although my main purpose is to open their horizon and get them expose to different things and other cultures. So I'm also a culprit.
I'm still trying ....... to be a good father.
But one thing for sure.... mine are both girls so I don't need to pay to buy PC for them when they get married. What a shameless old man I am. :D
I think you teach your gals well and they will grow up to be better people then many spoilt children these days.
Brought up & used to live like prince & princess.
When they married, don't expect them to change and make a sudden U-turn. That's the way they live their life.
So it's already a norm for them to have the cake and eat it. Maybe you also old already and don't really understand them. So in short, 10k still not enough to buy 1.2mil PC. But with parents support, impossible also becomes possible.
Even our government is also trying very hard to understand and win them over. I'm also learning.
I've two girls, I've been teaching them the same traditional old way my parents have taught me. Don't waste food, don't buy unnecessary things, don't this, don't that. If they did well in school, I reward them with a hug or kiss :ashamed1: & an oversea trip at year end. If they don't behave, I'll ground them at home.
Got to make sure my good family values is passed down to them and teach them the right values in life although I know they will still change when they grow up with their own circles of friends.
But I also spoilt them by bringing them for oversea trip yearly. :doh: Although my main purpose is to open their horizon and get them expose to different things and other cultures. So I'm also a culprit.
I'm still trying ....... to be a good father.
But one thing for sure.... mine are both girls so I don't need to pay to buy PC for them when they get married. What a shameless old man I am. :D
Good to hear that such traits are valued and continue to be passed down.
About your yearly holiday with the family, I think it is important. Now everybody in the family have their own program everyday, it is hard to catch up. Some days, even sitting down to have dinner together is difficult. I was considering a development and wanted to bring my family to have a look. I need to make appointment with them 3 days before the viewing just to make sure they set the time aside. So, year end holidays are necessary for bonding.
As to your point about 2 daughters and maybe you don't have to buy PC for them...Hahaha. Good luck:cheers4:
Brought up & used to live like prince & princess.
When they married, don't expect them to change and make a sudden U-turn. That's the way they live their life.
So it's already a norm for them to have the cake and eat it. Maybe you also old already and don't really understand them. So in short, 10k still not enough to buy 1.2mil PC. But with parents support, impossible also becomes possible.
Even our government is also trying very hard to understand and win them over. I'm also learning.
I've two girls, I've been teaching them the same traditional old way my parents have taught me. Don't waste food, don't buy unnecessary things, don't this, don't that. If they did well in school, I reward them with a hug or kiss :ashamed1: & an oversea trip at year end. If they don't behave, I'll ground them at home.
Got to make sure my good family values is passed down to them and teach them the right values in life although I know they will still change when they grow up with their own circles of friends.
But I also spoilt them by bringing them for oversea trip yearly. :doh: Although my main purpose is to open their horizon and get them expose to different things and other cultures. So I'm also a culprit.
I'm still trying ....... to be a good father.
But one thing for sure.... mine are both girls so I don't need to pay to buy PC for them when they get married. What a shameless old man I am. :D
If they managed to learn and accept 70% of what you pass to them, their future husband to be will be one lucky chap.... I am not really very old but I was taught the value of Thrift from very young....
The KEY word "DELAY GRATIFICATION" on things that depreciate....
Everything that you can delay just do it, dont buy a car yet.. wait, dont take taxi today.... wait a few more days then take when you are really tired....
dont eat at restaurant this week... wait for next week....
Dont dink the soda, go back office to drink free mineral water and coffee from office....
Live like this for the first 5-8 years of your working life and you will have money for that dream condo!!!!! and halfway to a comfortable retirement...
After that..... when your condo appreciate 20-50% then start to think about buying the non essential items.....
you delay gratification for 8 years, will prob be able to enjoy more next time...
If they managed to learn and accept 70% of what you pass to them, their future husband to be will be one lucky chap.... I am not really very old but I was taught the value of Thrift from very young....
The KEY word "DELAY GRATIFICATION" on things that depreciate....
Everything that you can delay just do it, dont buy a car yet.. wait, dont take taxi today.... wait a few more days then take when you are really tired....
dont eat at restaurant this week... wait for next week....
Dont dink the soda, go back office to drink free mineral water and coffee from office....
Live like this for the first 5-8 years of your working life and you will have money for that dream condo!!!!! and halfway to a comfortable retirement...
After that..... when your condo appreciate 20-50% then start to think about buying the non essential items.....
you delay gratification for 8 years, will prob be able to enjoy more next time...
Either that or be contented with small little gratifications like the occasional mac sundae or soccer jersey if you must, for instance... That way you will not feel like so tortured yet you are contented enough. Often times the small things matters and can do big wonders.
Either that or be contented with small little gratifications like the occasional mac sundae or soccer jersey if you must, for instance... That way you will not feel like so tortured yet you are contented enough. Often times the small things matters and can do big wonders.
Totall agree.......
Its all about perception....
Last time we study at Macdonalds very happy liao...
Now youngster must study at Coffee Beans.... Starbucks....
Next time where? Dempsey ah??? lol....
regency321
23-04-12, 16:51
Brought up & used to live like prince & princess.
When they married, don't expect them to change and make a sudden U-turn. That's the way they live their life.
So it's already a norm for them to have the cake and eat it. Maybe you also old already and don't really understand them. So in short, 10k still not enough to buy 1.2mil PC. But with parents support, impossible also becomes possible.
Even our government is also trying very hard to understand and win them over. I'm also learning.
I've two girls, I've been teaching them the same traditional old way my parents have taught me. Don't waste food, don't buy unnecessary things, don't this, don't that. If they did well in school, I reward them with a hug or kiss :ashamed1: & an oversea trip at year end. If they don't behave, I'll ground them at home.
Got to make sure my good family values is passed down to them and teach them the right values in life although I know they will still change when they grow up with their own circles of friends.
But I also spoilt them by bringing them for oversea trip yearly. :doh: Although my main purpose is to open their horizon and get them expose to different things and other cultures. So I'm also a culprit.
I'm still trying ....... to be a good father.
But one thing for sure.... mine are both girls so I don't need to pay to buy PC for them when they get married. What a shameless old man I am. :D
I'm pretty sure your girls will grow up well with your teachings. Young parents nowadays mainly show their love for their kids using material rewards.
I think next time our worries for our daughters will be whether they get married at all, looking at the rising trend of staying single.
The KEY word "DELAY GRATIFICATION" on things that depreciate....
you delay gratification for 8 years, will prob be able to enjoy more next time...
DELAY GRATIFICATION. I like this.
Bite the bitter pill first & eat the candy later.
"The less you have, the more you are able to appreciate how much you actually already have." - carbuncle, condosingapore.com, circa 2012
I'm pretty sure your girls will grow up well with your teachings. Young parents nowadays mainly show their love for their kids using material rewards.
I think next time our worries for our daughters will be whether they get married at all, looking at the rising trend of staying single.
Time to teach them nobodys perfect and that there is no such thing as a mr perfect - only a mr right. Just right for you and only you and nobody else...
"The less you have, the more you are able to appreciate how much you actually already have." - carbuncle, condosingapore.com, circa 2012
+++ LIKE....
regency321
23-04-12, 17:05
Time to teach them nobodys perfect and that there is no such thing as a mr perfect - only a mr right. Just right for you and only you and nobody else...
now only 5 yrs old nia...maybe when 15. :D
but i got a number of colleagues mid 30s to early 40s, single and not actively looking... try to encourage them but maybe too late already..
You think daddy and mummy will offer to foot the down payment if the kids are buying a property far far away from them?
wah....u are sharp, in this case yes within 1km.
As to your point about 2 daughters and maybe you don't have to buy PC for them...Hahaha. Good luck:cheers4:
HaHa. If the guy is capable, he should at least be able to afford a HDB.
If they die die must buy condo, let the BIG HOLE in the pocket comes from the man family. :cheers5:
HaHa. If the guy is capable, he should at least be able to afford a HDB.
If they die die must buy condo, let the BIG HOLE in the pocket comes from the man family. :cheers5:
pple will say it is the girl's request..
but in fact, it is their father told the girl to do like that.. LOL!!! :D:D:D
pple will say it is the girl's request..
but in fact, it is their father told the girl to do like that.. LOL!!! :D:D:D
HaHaHa ..... you made my day :D
I'm pretty sure your girls will grow up well with your teachings. Young parents nowadays mainly show their love for their kids using material rewards.
I think next time our worries for our daughters will be whether they get married at all, looking at the rising trend of staying single.
Bro, your worries are real but you also need to educate them when you observed they starts to talk about papa marry mama or princess marry prince. I don't know what other parents do but this is what I've been doing.
I'm been telling my girls (brain washing) that they will get marry when they grow up. But they must marry a good guy but not to get married too young. What is the standard of good guy? I'll let you know later. Have boyfriends is ok but don't jump into marriage too fast.
The ideal age from what I observed is 26yrs or 27yrs old. (I actually told my girls this) This is the age where girls become more matured and wanted to settle down with marriage.
Also financially more stable as they would have some savings with them after working for a couples of years. The guy would usually be older then the girls so should be matured as well.
Those who married age 25 or younger usually end up with divorce. So far I've seen about 80% of those around me (friends or relatives) ending that way. (I also told my girls this).
Brain wash them from young and must tell them to marry a good guy just like their father :ashamed1:. Hope it works.
You guys must be thinking this is the most shameless guy in this forum.
BU YAO LIAN.
now only 5 yrs old nia...maybe when 15. :D
but i got a number of colleagues mid 30s to early 40s, single and not actively looking... try to encourage them but maybe too late already..
Encourage for what?? U dont gain anything. when they host wedding dinner invite u u have to come out angpao somemore. Or worse ask u to be bro or mc or usher.
+++ LIKE....
tanks U tanks... :-D
Bro, your worries are real but you also need to educate them when you observed they starts to talk about papa marry mama or princess marry prince. I don't know what other parents do but this is what I've been doing.
I'm been telling my girls (brain washing) that they will get marry when they grow up. But they must marry a good guy but not to get married too young. What is the standard of good guy? I'll let you know later. Have boyfriends is ok but don't jump into marriage too fast.
The ideal age from what I observed is 26yrs or 27yrs old. (I actually told my girls this) This is the age where girls become more matured and wanted to settle down with marriage.
Also financially more stable as they would have some savings with them after working for a couples of years. The guy would usually be older then the girls so should be matured as well.
Those who married age 25 or younger usually end up with divorce. So far I've seen about 80% of those around me (friends or relatives) ending that way. (I also told my girls this).
Brain wash them from young and must tell them to marry a good guy just like their father :ashamed1:. Hope it works.
You guys must be thinking this is the most shameless guy in this forum.
BU YAO LIAN.
haiz....too bad mine is son...:banghead:
"The less you have, the more you are able to appreciate how much you actually already have." - carbuncle, condosingapore.com, circa 2012
no wonder u dont take cab, just walk can liao. Appreciate the use of both legs.
haiz....too bad mine is son...:banghead:
i beg to differ. There are going to be much more gals than guys. Your son most probably will be offer a condo to marry their daughters because there are going to be only some many good sons for many many many good daughters.
Why did you say that? I thought that there are more new born baby boys than baby girls by about 1K every year.
i beg to differ. There are going to be much more gals than guys. Your son most probably will be offer a condo to marry their daughters because there are going to be only some many good sons for many many many good daughters.
Why did you say that? I thought that there are more new born baby boys than baby girls by about 1K every year.
more baby boys born, but more baby boys than baby girls died each year.
True in the old day. with the new technology, medical breakthrough and new medicine, I don't think this is the case anymore.
more baby boys born, but more baby boys than baby girls died each year.
i beg to differ. There are going to be much more gals than guys. Your son most probably will be offer a condo to marry their daughters because there are going to be only some many good sons for many many many good daughters.
as i have mentioned before, i attended many weddings where rich boy marry poor but beautiful girl. but never ever see rich girl marry poor but handsome boy, unless elope, that i heard.
anyway, i prefer girls to sons. People think that daughters married away. they are damn wrong. when they marry, daughters bring back a son. if you look around, you would find that parents are closer to son-in-laws, rather to daughter-in-laws.
those who have both daughters and sons, keep track the number of times they visit you. Daughter visits would outnumber son visits.
i dont mind if family name not being passed down.because logically, both daughter and son have my genes. but daughters take care of old folks better, that's what important.
really, man has no value even for sex. if he wants it, he has to pay for it.
for a woman, if she wants, just need to spread the legs and many volunteers, where got women pay for sex? on the contrary she get paid.
summary: daughters are more valuable than sons
Not this day n age. Daughters also will kick u out. They value their Hermes then the parents.
Wow, just read recent posts. First there were million dollar worth of designer laundry balconies, then a saga on handbags, then came sons vs daughters. Now the two is combined and we have daughters and handbags.
What's next sons and IRs?
Keep it up, interesting thread. :47:
It's a matter of saving hard in the beginning. Car loan is the loan you should never take. 3k saving a month just 3yrs you can get a decent car. Many ppl take the car loan right at the 1st year of their job and count "depreciation per year" to make themselves happy that "I'm going to save $$$ per month for a car anyway so why not enjoy first and just pay monthly a little more".
you have to separate the real "expense" from the so called monthly 7k "expense":
1) those "paid" for insurance, well, the real protection part is very little I can assure you, the "investment" part form the bulk of it. Imagine a 2mil life term is only 200 plus a month, how much does your 1k "insurance" cost monthly really go to ? I would imagine 800 out of it is for investment purpose, that you are being forced to do it with insurance company. Dun do that.
2) those "saved" for retirement: you should invest for retirement not save for it. the cash saved will be wiped out totally by inflation
3) those "saved" for child education: this is nothing more than an endowment policy which is again really an investment you are buying. do it yourself.
etc
By taking out all these, your real monthly "expense" is not that high, <4k. which is completely in line with a 10k income household. For the balance, you plan what kind of investment you should do. Pty is just one vehicle. You can always choose others. But dun discount ppl choosing pty as the main vehicle. After all, look around you, especially in Asia, pty investment is the most common way to get rich for ordinary folks (all thanks to Asian's esp Chinese obsession with face and pty).
I really don't quite understand what you talking about or your point of argument here. obviously, the cost of owning a car in Singapore is not just about paying for the running cost regardless if you buy your car in cash or through loan. Are those $3k per month "saving" not considered as expenses if their whole purpose is to pay for a car in 3 years?
$1000 per month for an entire household for 4 is not excessive and I think a family who make around $10K can definitely afford it and should have it.
Perhaps you should also review your personal insurance and protection and ask yourself if your family will be able to pay for your medical expenses if you are diagnose by stage 2 cancers. Or what if you got into a car accident and become disable tomorrow. Will you and your family be able to service that $5K per month housing loan when you are out of job?
Last but no least. With a household income of $10K per month, can they afford to pay $5K to their mortgage, own a car, raise 2 children, put them through universites and still have money for retirement at 60years old.
Ringo I think this discussion with you is not going anywhere.
I'm trying to tell you what component of your "expense" should not be an expense. They should be invested.
You have 10k income. What do you want to achieve with this 10k ? Live "comfortably" now and nothing left to invest ? Or live within a budget and invest the rest? You choose your destiny. (like Daytona said).
You do not want to find out what "insurance" you are really buying into. Instead you think you have everything covered. Insurance companies sure like you.
You have a very conservative mind and are all tuned to "saving".
You worry about many "what ifs". Lose the job tomorrow ? Get cancer a few yrs later ? etc.
You are not a risk taker. With everything covered and still wanting a investment, well, you need an income of 20k to start. So this is your profile.
There is nothing wrong with it.
Did you notice what the other member speculator said about your idea of "save enough for a condo" ? Take out the sarcastic tone, the underlying idea is something worth your thought.
But ultimately this is your choice.
Last but no least. With a household income of $10K per month, can they afford to pay $5K to their mortgage, own a car, raise 2 children, put them through universites and still have money for retirement at 60years old.
"raise 2 children, put them through uni, have money for retirement" these are all future expenses, that you must INVEST for it, not SAVE for it.
why 5k mortgage ? 1mil loan today is 3k installment for young people. Future rate hike ? You are young, your income will rise too rite ? This is a risk, but young ppl like you wouldn't expect yourself making the same salary in the next 5ys isn't ?
It is already happening ... recently ST interviewed The Hillier's buyer. ... one of this Mr Ng or Dr Ng bought 2 units for children
And he said The Hillier is reasonably priced :simmering:
But recent BTO at Machpherson MRT 450k for a decent 4 room HDB 90sqm... not too expensive imo
I'm wondering. Are we seeing this today?
Rich parents - buy condo & fully paid for children when get married
Not so rich parent - pay deposit only for PC when children married
Money not enough parents - Cannot help. Couple has to foot their own bill
Money not enough but still want to help parents - sell away roof to help child buy condo. Moved in & stay together.
No money parents - Move in and stay together with son-in-law or kick from one child to another child place in merry-go-round.
"raise 2 children, put them through uni, have money for retirement" these are all future expenses, that you must INVEST for it, not SAVE for it.
why 5k mortgage ? 1mil loan today is 3k installment for young people. Future rate hike ? You are young, your income will rise too rite ? This is a risk, but young ppl like you wouldn't expect yourself making the same salary in the next 5ys isn't ?
Instead of going round in circles, why not you do up a simple excel spread sheet and tell us exactly how a family with an household income of $10K can afford to live in a $1.2m apartment, raise a family, afford a car, and still have money to INVEST FOR THE FUTURE.
Ringo I think this discussion with you is not going anywhere.
I'm trying to tell you what component of your "expense" should not be an expense. They should be invested.
You have 10k income. What do you want to achieve with this 10k ? Live "comfortably" now and nothing left to invest ? Or live within a budget and invest the rest? You choose your destiny. (like Daytona said).
You do not want to find out what "insurance" you are really buying into. Instead you think you have everything covered. Insurance companies sure like you.
You have a very conservative mind and are all tuned to "saving".
You worry about many "what ifs". Lose the job tomorrow ? Get cancer a few yrs later ? etc.
You are not a risk taker. With everything covered and still wanting a investment, well, you need an income of 20k to start. So this is your profile.
There is nothing wrong with it.
Did you notice what the other member speculator said about your idea of "save enough for a condo" ? Take out the sarcastic tone, the underlying idea is something worth your thought.
But ultimately this is your choice.
I am only keen to point out the cost of owning a car is more than just running cost regardless if you pay in cash or loan.
i would advise 10k income newly wed to go for bto flat if they are still eligible or new ec within 600k instead of a 1.2mil condo. Save the difference of the monthly mortgage installment and use part of it to invest.
I always believe in having some spare cash for rainy days. I will not stretch my last dollar when i have a family to feed.
I'm wondering. Are we seeing this today?
Rich parents - buy condo & fully paid for children when get married
Not so rich parent - pay deposit only for PC when children married
Money not enough parents - Cannot help. Couple has to foot their own bill
Money not enough but still want to help parents - sell away roof to help child buy condo. Moved in & stay together.
No money parents - Move in and stay together with son-in-law or kick from one child to another child place in merry-go-round.
It is very disheartening to see poor old folks being kicked around like a ball. Ironically, maybe it is better to have only one child. Even old folks home expenses aren't cheap nowadays.
rymccondo77
24-04-12, 13:50
Instead of going round in circles, why not you do up a simple excel spread sheet and tell us exactly how a family with an household income of $10K can afford to live in a $1.2m apartment, raise a family, afford a car, and still have money to INVEST FOR THE FUTURE.
My view is that if one's household income is $10K a month, have a family to raise (let's say 2 kids), and a car, he / she should go for a apartment that is $1M or less. Consider EC as an option (not as good as a PC, but one shouldn't over stretch one's finances).
i would advise 10k income newly wed to go for bto flat if they are still eligible or new ec within 600k instead of a 1.2mil condo. Save the difference of the monthly mortgage installment and use part of it to invest.
I always believe in having some spare cash for rainy days. I will not stretch my last dollar when i have a family to feed.
Come to think about it, how is it possible for a young couple to purchase 1.2mil condo without parent's help. 20% downpayment is already 240k.
Come to think about it, how is it possible for a young couple to purchase 1.2mil condo without parent's help. 20% downpayment is already 240k.
Only S$60k cash and S$180k cpf mah. Assume construction takes 3-4 years and stamp duty is absorbed by developer.
Probably most graduate couples in the 32-38 age group should be able to afford lah. Whether it's wise or not is another matter.....
Only S$60k cash and S$180k cpf mah. Assume construction takes 3-4 years and stamp duty is absorbed by developer.
Probably most graduate couples in the 32-38 age group should be able to afford lah. Whether it's wise or not is another matter.....
32-38 is definitely not young anymore. It is better to get married before 30. And 180k cpf will take how many years to accumulate for 10k income?
23% goes to OA for 35 and below.
First 20% of a condo bought from developer have to be paid after exercising s&p
10k income what do you do?
no car no maid no restaurant no holiday every month humble living u need no more than 3k a month! Your 1st 3yrs can save you 180k on salary alone! with bonus let say 2month bonus u can save total more than 240k.
Only then u get a car 80k in cash. And then you can start to plan your investment. Or u can save another year so you capital can reach 200k.
U still thinking about the car ? U target your 200k investment to generate another 100k in the next 10yrs, so to get your replacement car in 10ys. 10y is a long time even for pty. If leveraged you easily get 200% return.
insurance ? term life for 20y 500k is like $60.
As your income grows, you start to add on your luxury items, and/or more insurances.
Look no one is going to teach you how to manage your finance. You keep on insisting you need 5-7k to have a life then there is nothing more for me to say. You just have to admit you are risk adverse and/or conservative.
32-38 is definitely not young anymore. It is better to get married before 30. And 180k cpf will take how many years to accumulate for 10k income?
23% goes to OA for 35 and below.
First 20% of a condo bought from developer have to be paid after exercising s&p
S$180k is for a couple mah. Should be able for graduate couples to attain the amount easily after 8 years of working. That will put them around 32-33 years old....I speak with experience too.
Come to think about it, how is it possible for a young couple to purchase 1.2mil condo without parent's help. 20% downpayment is already 240k.
Ringo is not asking for advice. He's challenging why a 10k income can afford a 1m mortgage, this is assuming he can pay the down payment. He believes a 10k income cannot afford a 1m mortgage because the family's living expense goes up to 7k a month.
S$180k is for a couple mah. Should be able for graduate couples to attain the amount easily after 8 years of working. That will put them around 32-33 years old....I speak with experience too.
Settling down earlier has advantages. Applying for a bto flat when the couple is around 26-28. 7-8years later, they are able to invest in another condo after fulfiling MOP. 7-8years time is a reasonably good amount of time to accumulate for the next downpayment.
thomastansb
24-04-12, 15:15
Backside itch go buy 1.2M?
Can be done actually. I bought mine 900k by saving up. And don't forget you have CPF. You only need 8% cash.
Come to think about it, how is it possible for a young couple to purchase 1.2mil condo without parent's help. 20% downpayment is already 240k.
forget abt car and holiday at this point of time. Holiday, also can go for Budget type...
regency321
24-04-12, 15:23
Bro, your worries are real but you also need to educate them when you observed they starts to talk about papa marry mama or princess marry prince. I don't know what other parents do but this is what I've been doing.
I'm been telling my girls (brain washing) that they will get marry when they grow up. But they must marry a good guy but not to get married too young. What is the standard of good guy? I'll let you know later. Have boyfriends is ok but don't jump into marriage too fast.
The ideal age from what I observed is 26yrs or 27yrs old. (I actually told my girls this) This is the age where girls become more matured and wanted to settle down with marriage.
Also financially more stable as they would have some savings with them after working for a couples of years. The guy would usually be older then the girls so should be matured as well.
Those who married age 25 or younger usually end up with divorce. So far I've seen about 80% of those around me (friends or relatives) ending that way. (I also told my girls this).
Brain wash them from young and must tell them to marry a good guy just like their father :ashamed1:. Hope it works.
You guys must be thinking this is the most shameless guy in this forum.
BU YAO LIAN.
Thats good advice, I will bear them in mind. Thanks for sharing your parenting tips.
:cheers4:
Backside itch go buy 1.2M?
Can be done actually. I bought mine 900k by saving up. And don't forget you have CPF. You only need 8% cash.
i am assuming a young couple to be in their mid-late 20s actually.
It is really too old to settle down in mid 30s and having a child in the late 30s.
10k income what do you do?
no car no maid no restaurant no holiday every month humble living u need no more than 3k a month! Your 1st 3yrs can save you 180k on salary alone! with bonus let say 2month bonus u can save total more than 240k.
Only then u get a car 80k in cash. And then you can start to plan your investment. Or u can save another year so you capital can reach 200k.
U still thinking about the car ? U target your 200k investment to generate another 100k in the next 10yrs, so to get your replacement car in 10ys. 10y is a long time even for pty. If leveraged you easily get 200% return.
insurance ? term life for 20y 500k is like $60.
As your income grows, you start to add on your luxury items, and/or more insurances.
Look no one is going to teach you how to manage your finance. You keep on insisting you need 5-7k to have a life then there is nothing more for me to say. You just have to admit you are risk adverse and/or conservative.
AMK, there is no point talking about big invest returns or saving big money without touching on the details of family expenses.
Instead of going round in circles, why not just list down what and how a family should spend in order to live in a $1.2m property, have enough money to raise kids, put them though universities, own a car and yet have money to invest for the future etc.
Ringo is not asking for advice. He's challenging why a 10k income can afford a 1m mortgage, this is assuming he can pay the down payment. He believes a 10k income cannot afford a 1m mortgage because the family's living expense goes up to 7k a month.
You are right, I am not seeking advice here. I am here to point out to you that the cost of owning a car in Singapore is a lot higher than the running cost of $700 you mentioned earlier because whether the car is paid in full or on loan, you will need to factor in depreciation cost.
Yes, i believe a $1.2m property is over stretched for a family with combined income of $10K and I am looking forward to hear from you how you can manage it with $10k, yet have enough money to buy a car in cash, saving to invest in future, bring up kids, and have sufficient insurance plans to cover yourself AND the family etc.
Appreciate if you can offer some numbers for crunching instead of you can do this you can do that.
read a number of forums and friends, many want to build substantial passive income for retirement. The way that people put up like so easy to have good passive income. Easy to say than done.
Also, a lot of people did not know income is different from cash inflow.
... how you can manage it with $10k, yet have enough money to buy a car in cash...
you save hard for 4yrs minimum 1st to buy your 1st car in cash, and your capital for pty investment.
you dun save for the next 10y for your next car. you invest for the next 10y. for all you know 5ys later your 1st pty cycle can generate a return > 100k.
control your monthly expense to be within 4k. how to live within 4k ? I'm not going to teach you :rolleyes: Just dun tell me you cannot live with 4k!
...The way that people put up like so easy to have good passive income....
especially when people want to have a good life at the same time. for example, maid ?
you save hard for 4yrs minimum 1st to buy your 1st car in cash, and your capital for pty investment.
you dun save for the next 10y for your next car. you invest for the next 10y. for all you know 5ys later your 1st pty cycle can generate a return > 100k.
control your monthly expense to be within 4k. how to live within 4k ? I'm not going to teach you :rolleyes: Just dun tell me you cannot live with 4k!
before you go any further with all that fairytale saving and life sacrifices etc. may i know if you have a family of your own? Because if you dont then it is pointless of you to talk about household expenses really.
Ringo I think I will not debate with you further on this topic, since you cannot even admit 4k is a reasonable household expense. I have made myself very clear on what you should do wrt "expense" and investment. You are determined that you have done everything right, so let's just leave it at that. Before it gets emotional, and irrational.
For your info, I probably have a bigger family than yours. And my biggest monthly "expense" is my tax bill ;)
buttercarp
24-04-12, 19:22
For your info, I probably have a bigger family than yours. And my biggest monthly "expense" is my tax bill ;)
I won't be surprised if your annual income tax is more than some people's annual income.;)
Ringo I think I will not debate with you further on this topic, since you cannot even admit 4k is a reasonable household expense. I have made myself very clear on what you should do wrt "expense" and investment. You are determined that you have done everything right, so let's just leave it at that. Before it gets emotional, and irrational.
For your info, I probably have a bigger family than yours. And my biggest monthly "expense" is my tax bill ;)
AMK, if you want to convince us that a household with $10K income can afford to a 1.2m property and still have sufficient money for saving, investment, buying car in cash etc, then you should at least tell us exactly how you achieve that instead of telling us I can do this i can do that.
By telling us you have a big family is not going to make you more convincing either. When I was living with my parents and siblings, my family was indeed bigger than now. And if I am freeloading, what other expenses do I need actually?
I won't be surprised if your annual income tax is more than some people's annual income.;)
there is a reason why he use " " over expenses.
hmm....
what about this.
me family total income only $3k but i wan buy MartinPlace big big 4 rooms can?:D
hmm....
what about this.
me family total income only $3k but i wan buy MartinPlace big big 4 rooms can?:D
do you want to take loan or pay cash?
Haven't some forumers already list down all details to show you that they only spend $3k+ pm for basic housing expenses? And you repeat to ask for same thing? You can't read? :doh:
You are right, I am not seeking advice here. I am here to point out to you that the cost of owning a car in Singapore is a lot higher than the running cost of $700 you mentioned earlier because whether the car is paid in full or on loan, you will need to factor in depreciation cost.
Yes, i believe a $1.2m property is over stretched for a family with combined income of $10K and I am looking forward to hear from you how you can manage it with $10k, yet have enough money to buy a car in cash, saving to invest in future, bring up kids, and have sufficient insurance plans to cover yourself AND the family etc.
Appreciate if you can offer some numbers for crunching instead of you can do this you can do that.
Haven't some forumers already list down all details to show you that they only spend $3k+ pm for basic housing expenses? And you repeat to ask for same thing? You can't read? :doh:
I am asking AMK lah, why so busy body?? what happened to your discussion about Hermes bag in the other thread?
The "" means it is an expense on some big money generating assets! So it is an expense, yes, but without such expense you have no income! Ops! I think you won't understand, never mind, just take it that I had just farted. :p
there is a reason why he use " " over expenses.
Ha ha! Forum is meant for all "busy bodies", else there is no constructive discussions and debates! Why? You can't even take construction debate? :tsk-tsk:
And by the way, you don't even have Hermes bag, what is there to discuss with you about Hermes bags? :beats-me-man:
I am asking AMK lah, why so busy body?? what happened to your discussion about Hermes bag in the other thread?
hmm....
what about this.
me family total income only $3k but i wan buy MartinPlace big big 4 rooms can?:D
Can! if you are above 18yrs old you can try ur luck at at $500 a hr job. I am sure u can service ur 4room martin place easy easy !:D :D :D
Can! if you are above 18yrs old you can try ur luck at at $500 a hr job. I am sure u can service ur 4room martin place easy easy !:D :D :D
wah? i also wan make $500 a hr yay! can i becum your colleague so u can show how?
:D :D :D
wah? i also wan make $500 a hr yay! can i becum your colleague so u can show how?
:D :D :D
!st u need to proof u are beyond reasonable doubt u are above 18! :D :D :D
!st u need to proof u are beyond reasonable doubt u are above 18! :D :D :D
i got my bus card can? :tongue3:
Come to think about it, how is it possible for a young couple to purchase 1.2mil condo without parent's help. 20% downpayment is already 240k.
Why not? u think too lowly of us kids these days :tongue3: :tongue3:
"raise 2 children, put them through uni, have money for retirement" these are all future expenses, that you must INVEST for it, not SAVE for it.
why 5k mortgage ? 1mil loan today is 3k installment for young people. Future rate hike ? You are young, your income will rise too rite ? This is a risk, but young ppl like you wouldn't expect yourself making the same salary in the next 5ys isn't ?
i like ur thoughts :) same sentiments:cheers5:
I come here to see if any update on Sky Habit sales and all I see is tirade over income and household expenses.
I come here to see if any update on Sky Habit sales and all I see is tirade over income and household expenses.
lol :D :cheers5:
This thread has changed into a lecturing one.
i like ur thoughts :) same sentiments:cheers5:
INVEST FOR FUTURE, BIG SAVING, PAY IN CASH etc are nice to hear.
But still, you need to show us the money. No Money No Honey.
INVEST FOR FUTURE, BIG SAVING, PAY IN CASH etc are nice to hear.
But still, you need to show us the money. No Money No Honey.
That's why we say leverage wat.
phantom_opera
25-04-12, 12:18
Ringo's family expense is at least 6.5k to 7k per month my best guess
MPV car to carry 1 maid 2 kids and wife - 1500 pm
Insurance - 1000 pm
Tuition/childcare for 2 kids - 1000 pm
Maid - 1000 pm (insurance, agency fee, food, maid levy)
PUB + condo maintenance + groceries - 1000 pm
Eat out at Dempsey once or twice a week - 800 pm
Income tax, property tax - ?
buttercarp
25-04-12, 12:26
Ringo's family expense is at least 6.5k to 7k per month my best guess
MPV car to carry 1 maid 2 kids and wife - 1500 pm
Insurance - 1000 pm
Tuition/childcare for 2 kids - 1000 pm
Maid - 1000 pm (insurance, agency fee, food, maid levy)
PUB + condo maintenance + groceries - 1000 pm
Eat out at Dempsey once or twice a week - 800 pm
Income tax, property tax - ?
6.5 to 7k per month expenditure is not extravagant at all.
It is just the basic necessity (excluding the dempsey hill part).
You have not factored in the vacation expenses, phone bills, broadband bills, shopping expenses, car insurance, car servicing, car wear and tear, visits to the doctor and dentist, contribution to parents.
That's why we say leverage wat.
The world seem like a perfect place isnt it? Just walk into the bank, get a bank loan and walah, you are rich.
phantom_opera
25-04-12, 12:34
amk probably belongs to the upper middle class or the top income band but most of us are middle class (my definition is family income < 15k per month)
It is definitely possible to live without a maid, cut down insurance and drive a Kia Picanto just to squeeze out extra 2k per month saving for investment .. but it requires huge sacrifices of lifestyle and your spouse may not agree with you
:2cents:
amk probably belongs to the upper middle class or the top income band but most of us are middle class (my definition is family income < 15k per month)
It is definitely possible to live without a maid, cut down insurance and drive a Kia Picanto just to squeeze out extra 2k per month saving for investment .. but it requires huge sacrifices of lifestyle and your spouse may not agree with you
:2cents:
I actually think that AMK doesnt even have a family of his own and he is probably still free loading in his parents home.
When you have both husband and wife working and kids, it will be very difficult to not have a maid at home.
amk probably belongs to the upper middle class or the top income band but most of us are middle class (my definition is family income < 15k per month)
It is definitely possible to live without a maid, cut down insurance and drive a Kia Picanto just to squeeze out extra 2k per month saving for investment .. but it requires huge sacrifices of lifestyle and your spouse may not agree with you
:2cents:
On the maid part. For DINK, probably they don't need one. Otherwise for those with children, it is not possible to live without a maid for the below cases & I've seen quite a number of them.
Both are working and their parents don't want (I'm not kidding) or cannot (too old or weak) look after grandchildren . They got no choice but to get a maid or put the child into childcare. And childcare is more expensive compare to kindergarten usually. But then come back from work still got to check email or prepare presentations/reports for next day & look after crying baby or help child with homework. So they rather not cook themselves so still need the maid otherwise cannot finish report.
Sometimes, it's not a matter of choice but force to do so. Otherwise one got to stop working & stay at home. That means 40 to 50% income lost if both earn equal amount. So they rather have a maid than lost 50% income.
I come here to see if any update on Sky Habit sales and all I see is tirade over income and household expenses.
Ya think came to wrong thread. The other SH thread is the correct one lol. This thread is the one that bemoan why so many people can afford to buy SH....in other words the sour grapes thread wakakakaka
Ya think came to wrong thread. The other SH thread is the correct one lol. This thread is the one that bemoan why so many people can afford to buy SH....in other words the sour grapes thread wakakakaka
This thread has no limits. The SKY IS THE LIMIT.
We talking about 家事 now 柴米油盐
:D:D:D
That is very common isn't it? The not so common thing is he is spending much more than he can afford vs others who are spending this amount pm (that is why he is whinning why he can't set aside $5k pm to invest in properties etc). :p
And if a person is money-not-enough, he should not have car, $1k pm insurance, tuition for kids, eating out because he simply can't afford these luxuries! :ashamed1:
Ringo's family expense is at least 6.5k to 7k per month my best guess
MPV car to carry 1 maid 2 kids and wife - 1500 pm
Insurance - 1000 pm
Tuition/childcare for 2 kids - 1000 pm
Maid - 1000 pm (insurance, agency fee, food, maid levy)
PUB + condo maintenance + groceries - 1000 pm
Eat out at Dempsey once or twice a week - 800 pm
Income tax, property tax - ?
Yes, why some people can afford to put >$5k pm into property instalments but others can't! :o:ashamed1:
Ya think came to wrong thread. The other SH thread is the correct one lol. This thread is the one that bemoan why so many people can afford to buy SH....in other words the sour grapes thread wakakakaka
I actually think that AMK doesnt even have a family of his own and he is probably still free loading in his parents home.
When you have both husband and wife working and kids, it will be very difficult to not have a maid at home.
Ya! Agree. And we didnt want to live our lives full of sacrifices. Invest and make so much money for what ? also to enjoy life and live life to the fullest!
We are pass the era where we sacrifice 85% of our lives and the other 15% of the last part of our lives fighting diseases.
DKSG
That is very common isn't it? The not so common thing is he is spending much more than he can afford vs others who are spending this amount pm (that is why he is whinning why he can't set aside $5k pm to invest in properties etc). :p
And if a person is money-not-enough, he should not have car, $1k pm insurance, tuition for kids, eating out because he simply can't afford these luxuries! :ashamed1:
sacrificing all the comfort and security of your family just because you lan lan want to live in a 1.2M PC?
you think raising kids is like buying teddybear?
sacrificing all the comfort and security of your family just because you lan lan want to live in a 1.2M PC?
you think raising kids is like buying teddybear?
I agree that $6-7k expense is not excessive if take into account car expense, maid, 2 kids, household expenses, tax, holiday, parents allowance, so on and on...
So if you have $10k income, what do you do? Just allocate to what is more important... To some, it is driving a BMW, to another, it is staying in a PC.
For me, i will not go for $1.2m property because I am risk-adverse. And nothing wrong with that... I just don't get as rich as the guy who sold pepper crab.
Rosegarden
25-04-12, 14:11
Ya! Agree. And we didnt want to live our lives full of sacrifices. Invest and make so much money for what ? also to enjoy life and live life to the fullest!
We are pass the era where we sacrifice 85% of our lives and the other 15% of the last part of our lives fighting diseases.
DKSG
Touche!
And that's actually what all these arguments in this thread is really about, isn't it? It's not about whether such and such income can/should/shouldn't buy a condo of such and such price. It's about the standard of living that you should have as a nation that has been told to tighten your belt and slogged for 47 years. It's whether you should still be tightening your belts like 10/20/30 years ago, or whether you should now be looking forward to certain comforts and luxuries in life while still remaining reasonably competitive. In the final analysis, it is quite pathetic to be competitive and hardworking only for survival.
I actually think that AMK doesnt even have a family of his own and he is probably still free loading in his parents home.
young man, grow up. :tsk-tsk:
phantom_opera
25-04-12, 16:42
It is definitely possible to live without a maid if your kids are studying in secondary/JC/university or working already ... so amk may be in that situation, drive to Sheng Siong buying crabs / prawns and then reach home and steamboat every day :)
If your kids already in JC/Uni ... no point to have so high insurance & won't need a big car too ...
So may be we are comparing apple and orange
But if Ringo with family income of 10k cannot afford comfortably 1.2m condo ... does it mean our condo price is beyond affordability or simply that Singapore cost of living is simply too high??
Anybody like him, regardless of income (even if earn $1m a year but also spend $990k a year) will also got no money to buy a $1.2m property! :ashamed1:
So the problem is not with income but.....................:doh:
It is definitely possible to live without a maid if your kids are studying in secondary/JC/university or working already ... so amk may be in that situation, drive to Sheng Siong buying crabs / prawns and then reach home and steamboat every day :)
If your kids already in JC/Uni ... no point to have so high insurance & won't need a big car too ...
So may be we are comparing apple and orange
But if Ringo with family income of 10k cannot afford comfortably 1.2m condo ... does it mean our condo price is beyond affordability or simply that Singapore cost of living is simply too high??
Anybody like him, regardless of income (even if earn $1m a year but also spend $990k a year) will also got no money to buy a $1.2m property! :ashamed1:
So the problem is not with income but.....................:doh:
Can afford or not all depends on individual la.
No one can dictate affordability.
If one's life desire is to bring up the kids, then staying in condo is secondary, one will feel like after spending on kids, cant get a condo.
If one's life is about enjoyment and living your own life (of course still take care of kids reasonably well), this person may decide whole family move into condo and ENJOY! Dont spend too much on piano lessons, ballet, 3rd set of tuition, etc etc.
Its all about choices one make in their lives. Dont try to cast everyone in your own mould, it wont work.
This is the same as people with kids always think that all couples must have kids - ridiculous thinking!
DKSG
Can afford or not all depends on individual la.
No one can dictate affordability.
If one's life desire is to bring up the kids, then staying in condo is secondary, one will feel like after spending on kids, cant get a condo.
If one's life is about enjoyment and living your own life (of course still take care of kids reasonably well), this person may decide whole family move into condo and ENJOY! Dont spend too much on piano lessons, ballet, 3rd set of tuition, etc etc.
Its all about choices one make in their lives. Dont try to cast everyone in your own mould, it wont work.
This is the same as people with kids always think that all couples must have kids - ridiculous thinking!
DKSG
Its human nature ma not to suffer alone but drag others down into same predicament lol
This thread has no limits. The SKY IS THE LIMIT.
We talking about 家事 now 柴米油盐
:D:D:D
Ya man... Woops think I just contributed another response... :-p
It is definitely possible to live without a maid if your kids are studying in secondary/JC/university or working already ... so amk may be in that situation, drive to Sheng Siong buying crabs / prawns and then reach home and steamboat every day :)
If your kids already in JC/Uni ... no point to have so high insurance & won't need a big car too ...
So may be we are comparing apple and orange
But if Ringo with family income of 10k cannot afford comfortably 1.2m condo ... does it mean our condo price is beyond affordability or simply that Singapore cost of living is simply too high??
I think it is pointless for us to argue what is necessary and what is not
However I am still interested to know how AMK will managed a $10K household income that can finance a 1.2m property, raise a family, invest for the future, buy car in cash, and still have money to retirement.
After so much big talk about INVEST FOR THE FUTURE, LEVERAGE etc etc, lets give him a chance to show us the money.
Anyway like you said, he might be a senior citizen, just like Teddybear who 30 years ago already bought a HERMES bag for his wife, so lets welcome these investment GURU to teach us how to get rich.
With your kind of attitude, you expect us to teach you to become rich? lol! :tongue3:
I think it is pointless for us to argue what is necessary and what is not
However I am still interested to know how AMK will managed a $10K household income that can finance a 1.2m property, raise a family, invest for the future, buy car in cash, and still have money to retirement.
After so much big talk about INVEST FOR THE FUTURE, LEVERAGE etc etc, lets give him a chance to show us the money.
Anyway like you said, he might be a senior citizen, just like Teddybear who 30 years ago already bought a HERMES bag for his wife, so lets welcome these investment GURU to teach us how to get rich.
With your kind of attitude, you expect us to teach you to become rich? lol! :tongue3:
My reference to you was only as a senior citizen, not some investment GURU...
'US'????
:tsk-tsk:
It is obvious that you like to twist and turn your point like someone
This Is for all to see :tongue3:
My reference to you was only as a senior citizen, not some investment GURU...
'US'????
:tsk-tsk:
buttercarp
26-04-12, 08:32
Amk and Ringo like father and son squabbling.
so lets welcome these investment GURU to teach us how to get rich.
Let me share my personal encounter on this.
Back in 2005/6, I talked to easily 50 people or more including my boss to buy properties. Personally I talked to him 3 times in 2006 and in 2009, I asked him to buy properties again. But he did not. Thereafter, the property market chiong. Thereafter, I was so badly marked by him at a personal level and suffering.
A few friends took my advice and bot into property market. I also did not get any credit or return. Instead, some blamed me for not asking them to buy more. Some blamed me for not asking them to buy.
So in conclusion, now I never want to teach people how to get rich or how to invest or even how to choose good property.
My past lessons teach me that I need to be more selfish. I am not appreciated to help people to make monies but will be blamed if they did not make money.
phantom_opera
26-04-12, 09:52
Savills' analysis of URA Realis caveats data shows 1,142 resale deals for private homes (excluding ECs and en bloc sales) done in March - double the 565 caveats for February and more than three times January's volume of 314 transactions. The March number also exceeds December's volume of 776 and November's 981.
=> My own observation also, resale asking prices at OCR up by at least 10% since Sky Habitat's success. After Katong Regency sold out in one week, sellers will raise prices by another 5% soon.
HDB rental also up by 10-15% since January ... :cheers5:
Let me share my personal encounter on this.
Back in 2005/6, I talked to easily 50 people or more including my boss to buy properties. Personally I talked to him 3 times in 2006 and in 2009, I asked him to buy properties again. But he did not. Thereafter, the property market chiong. Thereafter, I was so badly marked by him at a personal level and suffering.
A few friends took my advice and bot into property market. I also did not get any credit or return. Instead, some blamed me for not asking them to buy more. Some blamed me for not asking them to buy.
So in conclusion, now I never want to teach people how to get rich or how to invest or even how to choose good property.
My past lessons teach me that I need to be more selfish. I am not appreciated to help people to make monies but will be blamed if they did not make money.
nobody is discouraging anyone here from buying property but rather buying within your means so that you dont need to put your family livelihood at risk.
Please dont be too hard on yourself, no one will simply buy a property just because of 1 advice from friend, and those who didnt buy are perhaps too poor to do so.
Whats your opinion about the property today? Can buy or not?
It is obvious that you like to twist and turn your point like someone
This Is for all to see :tongue3:
Nah...you thought you saw an opportunity to brag about yourself and you took it....period.
A trademark that we see many times over. 30 years old HERMES is one example.
Whats your opinion about the property today? Can buy or not?
There is no one size fix all answer. It depends on u.
IMO, if it is your first property and u hv sufficient financial means, then go and buy a good one. U will not be wrong for sure. Property investment is the longest timeline investment, there is hardly any chance of speculation.
For second property onwards, IMO, the upside potential is rather limited alr. U can find better investment vehicles for better yield and more liquid.
I think around 2-3 months back, I was alr calling to move into HK property market in this forum. It is a much more exciting place to buy properties. Some alr up almost 10% in these two months.
Look beyond Sg for better capital appreciation if ur serious in property investment.
Let me share my personal encounter on this.
Back in 2005/6, I talked to easily 50 people or more including my boss to buy properties. Personally I talked to him 3 times in 2006 and in 2009, I asked him to buy properties again. But he did not. Thereafter, the property market chiong. Thereafter, I was so badly marked by him at a personal level and suffering.
A few friends took my advice and bot into property market. I also did not get any credit or return. Instead, some blamed me for not asking them to buy more. Some blamed me for not asking them to buy.
So in conclusion, now I never want to teach people how to get rich or how to invest or even how to choose good property.
My past lessons teach me that I need to be more selfish. I am not appreciated to help people to make monies but will be blamed if they did not make money.
L : You should learn your lesson, NEVER ask people to buy or sell properties (unelss you are agent and stand to profit from them!).
People are very merciless nowadays, if they make they brag that its their own judgement, if they lose, they curse you for 25 years !
So why bother to teach other people how to get rich and avoid you ? They will avoid you coz your presence constantly remind them that they owe you a big favour. And they will NEVER EVER give you anything in return.
If they later sold their property and make $1 mil, do you think they will even give you $10K ? Nope!
So, learn this lesson and move on. We can tcss here and share views. But NEVER ever help people make money. Its not worth it. Personally, what I do at most is to give advice on the buying process, what buyer/seller can or cannot do and how to handle despicable agents out to rip people off - this one is my forte! haha!
DKSG
Rosegarden
26-04-12, 10:15
There is no one size fix all answer. It depends on u.
IMO, if it is your first property and u hv sufficient financial means, then go and buy a good one. U will not be wrong for sure. Property investment is the longest timeline investment, there is hardly any chance of speculation.
For second property onwards, IMO, the upside potential is rather limited alr. U can find better investment vechiles for better yield and more liquid.
I think around 2-3 months back, I was alr calling to move into HK property market in this forum. It is a much more exciting place to buy properties. Some alr up almost 10% in these two months.
Look beyond Sg for better capital appreciation if ur serious in property investment.
HK prices are higher than SG yet it has better capital appreciation prospects? Are fundamentals in HK so much better or you reckon this is due to the laissez-faire approach of the HK gov and the supply situation which is controlled by a few players or ...?
HK prices are higher than SG yet it has better capital appreciation prospects? Are fundamentals in HK so much better or you reckon this is due to the laissez-faire approach of the HK gov and the supply situation which is controlled by a few players or ...?
Do u own homework and draw your own conclusion please.
There are many many factors to consider. But u must add the FEAR factor.
L : You should learn your lesson, NEVER ask people to buy or sell properties (unelss you are agent and stand to profit from them!).
People are very merciless nowadays, if they make they brag that its their own judgement, if they lose, they curse you for 25 years !
So why bother to teach other people how to get rich and avoid you ? They will avoid you coz your presence constantly remind them that they owe you a big favour. And they will NEVER EVER give you anything in return.
If they later sold their property and make $1 mil, do you think they will even give you $10K ? Nope!
So, learn this lesson and move on. We can tcss here and share views. But NEVER ever help people make money. Its not worth it. Personally, what I do at most is to give advice on the buying process, what buyer/seller can or cannot do and how to handle despicable agents out to rip people off - this one is my forte! haha!
DKSG
ya, ru right. Simply too many friends visiting me nowadays and rather hard not to manage at times.
Rosegarden
26-04-12, 10:23
Do u own homework and draw your own conclusion please.
There are many many factors to consider. But u must add the FEAR factor.
Homework shows no fundamentals, and your fear factor agrees.
Homework shows no fundamentals, and your fear factor agrees.
That means ur homework is not enough. Do some more, young man.
This is the latest
凱旋門呎售49662 九龍分層新高
Rosegarden
26-04-12, 10:31
That means ur homework is not enough. Do some more, young man.
This is the latest
凱旋門呎售49662 九龍分層新高
Sell your hubris somewhere else, old man.
Straits Times :
No one can tell u the true value of Sky Habitat....
Did anyone read this ?
Sell your hubris somewhere else, old man.
LOL....every post reflects the personality of the forumers.
Rosegarden
26-04-12, 11:10
LOL....every post reflects the personality of the forumers.
Precisely! And some are not comfortable when his personality is exposed.
phantom_opera
26-04-12, 11:11
Laguna, amk, teddybear are old timers who contributed a lot to this forum, please stay cool and have some respect for them la
:cool:
That means ur homework is not enough. Do some more, young man.
This is the latest
凱旋門呎售49662 九龍分層新高
8000psf? Got a HK friend who told me HK prices up 5% YTD. Anyone tracking that market to validate that number?
It's all over the press. This is not MM.
今年首季九龍站成交平淡，但最新錄得一宗凱旋門交易，則創下項目歷史新高，涉及買賣的「大宅門」售價一億二千五百萬元，折合每呎價達四萬九千多元。
市場人士指出，豪宅交投屢創新高，昨日市場就錄得九龍站凱旋門高層戶，以呎價四萬九千九百六十元沽出，創出屋苑呎價新高紀錄，較對上一次紀錄近四萬八千元，推高近兩千元，同時超越該盤的「天際獨立屋」，售價可媲美港島南區洋房呎價。
易手的凱旋門摩天閣高層A室「大宅門」單位，獲買家以一億二千五百萬元承接，以單位面積約二千五百一十七方呎計算，平均呎價達四萬九千九百六十元。
據了解，該物業於○五年中，由今次賣方以六千一百五十萬
元購入，當時買入呎價二萬四千元，是次易手令業主帳面獲利六千三百五十萬元，單位升值逾一倍。
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