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View Full Version : Poor sales for new units in Prime area



FilthyRich
13-04-12, 14:21
According to the recent data stated by the straits times
"There were 192 non-landed resale caveats lodged in the first quarter, yet developers managed to sell only 30 new units, said Dr Chua Yang Liang, JLL's head of research for South-east Asia." Quote from ST.

Source (http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/singapore-property-news/few-buyers-for-new-units-data-shows/a/61390)

Your opinion?

carbuncle
13-04-12, 15:03
There are still value buys in CCR? Or famous carrotheads have migrated from OCR to CCR after reading reports on narrowing price gap?

bensonkoh
13-04-12, 15:08
There are still value buys in CCR? Or famous carrotheads have migrated from OCR to CCR after reading reports on narrowing price gap?

CCR has more value in buys for sure because of the closer gaps.

amk
13-04-12, 15:33
There are still value buys in CCR? Or famous carrotheads have migrated from OCR to CCR after reading reports on narrowing price gap?
these are totally 2 different segments.

those OCR carrotheads do not have the capacity to play in CCR. in fact that's why they become the carrothedas for OCR, because they die die must invest in a pty. And since they cannot afford anything bigger quantum, FEO makes your dream come true, by giving you a 500sqft SOHO in the middle of nowhere for you "as investment".

EBD
13-04-12, 15:43
these are totally 2 different segments.

those OCR carrotheads do not have the capacity to play in CCR. in fact that's why they become the carrothedas for OCR, because they die die must invest in a pty. And since they cannot afford anything bigger quantum, FEO makes your dream come true, by giving you a 500sqft SOHO in the middle of nowhere for you "as investment".

Agree. I almost feel sorry for these people. Think they are buying into a dream when they are actually being sold a nightmare.

Still, how you going to get rich if there weren't any people like this in the world.

carbuncle
13-04-12, 15:50
these are totally 2 different segments.

those OCR carrotheads do not have the capacity to play in CCR. in fact that's why they become the carrothedas for OCR, because they die die must invest in a pty. And since they cannot afford anything bigger quantum, FEO makes your dream come true, by giving you a 500sqft SOHO in the middle of nowhere for you "as investment".
+1 like ....

rattydrama
14-04-12, 13:19
Agree. I almost feel sorry for these people. Think they are buying into a dream when they are actually being sold a nightmare.

Still, how you going to get rich if there weren't any people like this in the world.

Orchard Road retail rental is narrowing against the OCR. People want everything near to them instead of travelling far away to buy something or have a good meal. MRT/LRT is the magic word. Mixed development is also another one.

This is the paradigm shift.

To me, the gap is narrowing. CCR if drop further will be supported by investors with cash and some of them are hiding here :cheers4:

hopeful
14-04-12, 13:28
Orchard Road retail rental is narrowing against the OCR. People want everything near to them instead of travelling far away to buy something or have a good meal. MRT/LRT is the magic word. Mixed development is also another one.

This is the paradigm shift.

To me, the gap is narrowing. CCR if drop further will be supported by investors with cash and some of them are hiding here :cheers4:
why are there so few big units in any new launch OCR projects?
as you put it, there maybe "paradigm" shift in psf, is there a "paradigm" shift in OCR sizes becoming ever smaller too?

jwong71
14-04-12, 13:58
Still, how you going to get rich if there weren't any people like this in the world.

click "like"

10 or more losers make up for 1 winner..:D

DC33_2008
14-04-12, 14:37
It happens to Hong Kong too. Developers know that OCR buyer cannot afford large quantum so they have to build smaller 2-3 bedder to meet their demand.
why are there so few big units in any new launch OCR projects?
as you put it, there maybe "paradigm" shift in psf, is there a "paradigm" shift in OCR sizes becoming ever smaller too?

rodkee
04-06-12, 00:31
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check out the seaview on this site:

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rattydrama
04-06-12, 01:23
why are there so few big units in any new launch OCR projects?
as you put it, there maybe "paradigm" shift in psf, is there a "paradigm" shift in OCR sizes becoming ever smaller too?

developers are maximizing profit by building smaller units at afforable price.

paradigm shift not in psf or sizes. Its pple no longer see d9,10,11 as an upgrading choice. Now they have a good option to stay within the same estate but in a PC.

market is always right.

About OCR psf, I do think there is resistant as it is all time high. every segment has its turn, maybe this time round could shift back to ccr. But before that, resale should pick up first.

Wild Falcon
04-06-12, 10:13
CCR/RCR has a larger proportion of small units lah. OCR is only catching up in the building of studios and small 2 bedders.

OCR investors or people who prefer to invest in developing areas or countries could be savvy investors who pick the right stocks and take the right risk. Remember, picking the right investments in about looking into the future and not to be too "narrow minded" on what districts or must be "developed" country or area. If you have been in this forum long enough, some of us in the forum has been predicting convergence and narrowing of gap since eons ago. I don't see how people who clearly has made the more savvy investment and made greater % returns be considered carrotheads? BY the way, i know of some CCR properties where the developers already started cutting prices. So those who bought are not carrotheads?

Of course at some point, the convergence will stop. But it stil doesn't change the fact that some has made more money than others. The market is rather bubbly now, but there are still value deals around - and not all are in CCR. Open your mind lah.

And I hate to say this, if u think "affordability" is a limiting factor. Then put on a savvy investor's hat. Then invest in areas where affordability and rental yields are still healthy. When rental yields are healthy and can cover your mortgage, then affordabilitry is not a problem.



It happens to Hong Kong too. Developers know that OCR buyer cannot afford large quantum so they have to build smaller 2-3 bedder to meet their demand.

Writ
04-06-12, 10:43
CCR/RCR has a larger proportion of small units lah. OCR is only catching up in the building of studios and small 2 bedders.

OCR investors or people who prefer to invest in developing areas or countries could be savvy investors who pick the right stocks and take the right risk. Remember, picking the right investments in about looking into the future and not to be too "narrow minded" on what districts or must be "developed" country or area. If you have been in this forum long enough, some of us in the forum has been predicting convergence and narrowing of gap since eons ago. I don't see how people who clearly has made the more savvy investment and made greater % returns be considered carrotheads? BY the way, i know of some CCR properties where the developers already started cutting prices. So those who bought are not carrotheads?

Of course at some point, the convergence will stop. But it stil doesn't change the fact that some has made more money than others. The market is rather bubbly now, but there are still value deals around - and not all are in CCR. Open your mind lah.

And I hate to say this, if u think "affordability" is a limiting factor. Then put on a savvy investor's hat. Then invest in areas where affordability and rental yields are still healthy. When rental yields are healthy and can cover your mortgage, then affordabilitry is not a problem.


hey, can u list the condo in CCR that the developers have cut price?

hutsutau
22-02-13, 12:08
hey, can u list the condo in CCR that the developers have cut price?

d'leedon is 1 of them

vanan75
07-06-13, 21:20
What does CCR means

leesg123
07-06-13, 21:49
What does CCR means
core central region

wclee21
05-08-13, 16:10
Paradigm shift? IMHO I would say market condition has changed. Rental yield used to be good in CCR. That was because most affluent ppl work closer to these areas. Transportation, and accessibility was not as good back then. Now you can see different business parks/hubs in OCR, and there are more MRT lines. Hence, the concentration of these ppl are no longer in CCR and rather more dispersed. Therefore, I feel that there are also opportunity in OCR.

doubleben
10-10-13, 12:43
Paradigm shift? IMHO I would say market condition has changed. Rental yield used to be good in CCR. That was because most affluent ppl work closer to these areas. Transportation, and accessibility was not as good back then. Now you can see different business parks/hubs in OCR, and there are more MRT lines. Hence, the concentration of these ppl are no longer in CCR and rather more dispersed. Therefore, I feel that there are also opportunity in OCR.

Agree. I see more and more expats moving to the heartlands in the last few years. They are no longer willing or able to pay the higher prices in the CCR and happily accept a slightly longer commute for larger units and lower prices.

Ringo33
10-10-13, 13:03
Agree. I see more and more expats moving to the heartlands in the last few years. They are no longer willing or able to pay the higher prices in the CCR and happily accept a slightly longer commute for larger units and lower prices.


International school moving to ocr expat will follow. Children education and family convenience is paramount

NO_7
10-10-13, 13:30
CBD is conjested with buildings, ppl who r working in CBD wanted to get out of that place after work, rental had also been increasing recently and that forced them to move out of this area.

smellyfish
10-10-13, 13:55
Agree. I see more and more expats moving to the heartlands in the last few years. They are no longer willing or able to pay the higher prices in the CCR and happily accept a slightly longer commute for larger units and lower prices.

those you see are just the migrant workers, not people who have been expatriated on expatriate package.

but Ringo33 is right, the move of international schools to OCR is a game changer.

thomastansb
10-10-13, 16:13
Nowadays, CCR rental almost same as RCR. I am comparing Icon/Sail/Clift vs Southbank/Citylights since I am vested in those properties.




CBD is conjested with buildings, ppl who r working in CBD wanted to get out of that place after work, rental had also been increasing recently and that forced them to move out of this area.

leesg123
10-10-13, 17:12
International school moving to ocr expat will follow. Children education and family convenience is paramount

Which could explain why mm in ccr is still a better investment class as it is catered for singleand or couple.

Ringo33
11-10-13, 08:12
Which could explain why mm in ccr is still a better investment class as it is catered for singleand or couple.

For CCR MM, at least you can still get around 4 to 5% yield.

Shanhz
11-10-13, 09:02
International school moving to ocr expat will follow. Children education and family convenience is paramount

not true leh. my very experienced ppty agent who specialise in corporate rental tell me that even when kids study in GEMS in yishun, father work in seletar aerospace park, they still stay in orchard road.

leesg123
11-10-13, 10:18
not true leh. my very experienced ppty agent who specialise in corporate rental tell me that even when kids study in GEMS in yishun, father work in seletar aerospace park, they still stay in orchard road.

True. But to some extent the move of international sch do have some impact.

thomastansb
11-10-13, 10:37
Which CCR condo can get 5%?



For CCR MM, at least you can still get around 4 to 5% yield.

Ringo33
11-10-13, 11:21
Which CCR condo can get 5%?

projects around mount sophia area.

leesg123
11-10-13, 11:31
Which CCR condo can get 5%?RV area, we are talking about MM.

Ringo33
11-10-13, 11:38
RV area, we are talking about MM.

Actually if you can get 5% yield without going below 500sqft, that is even better.

thomastansb
11-10-13, 13:32
I checked Mount Sophia suites and Parc sophia. Both 4.2 to 4.5% yield only.

Nowadays, don't have 5% anymore. Maybe OCR near MRT still got chance.





projects around mount sophia area.

DKSG
11-10-13, 18:25
not true leh. my very experienced ppty agent who specialise in corporate rental tell me that even when kids study in GEMS in yishun, father work in seletar aerospace park, they still stay in orchard road.

Not many people can understand how expats feel and think.
It is only when your office got many of them and you talk to them frequently, then u understand why Orchard/Town area is still the most desirable.

DKSG

babyt
11-10-13, 18:28
last time those ang mo expats were the richer one. nowadays due to flood gate, they attract the lousy one also. the 'poor' one will stay in HDBs and other suburban areas....those ang mo with REAL SPENDING POWER stay at the usual enclaves like Holland, Bukit Timah etc.

DKSG
11-10-13, 18:35
last time those ang mo expats were the richer one. nowadays due to flood gate, they attract the lousy one also. the 'poor' one will stay in HDBs and other suburban areas....those ang mo with REAL SPENDING POWER stay at the usual enclaves like Holland, Bukit Timah etc.

Eeerrmmm ... The Holland Bt Timah ones are the regular ones.
High end ones are in Ardmore, Cornwall landed, etc.
Or some of those places which Office Boy never even heard before. Hahaha!

DKSG

Ringo33
11-10-13, 18:44
last time those ang mo expats were the richer one. nowadays due to flood gate, they attract the lousy one also. the 'poor' one will stay in HDBs and other suburban areas....those ang mo with REAL SPENDING POWER stay at the usual enclaves like Holland, Bukit Timah etc.

Profile is different.

In the past, most expat are senior management, nowadays we have got many fresh grad running away from economic crisis in Europe coming here looking for opportunity.

There are also many expat those convert from expat to local terms, so need to tighten their belt to move to OCR.

babyt
11-10-13, 18:53
ya different profiles.

I have ang mo telling me this $17 product is expensive, so she brought the $8 one. She staying around Bishan/Thomson area

Ringo33
11-10-13, 18:57
ya different profiles.

I have ang mo telling me this $17 product is expensive, so she brought the $8 one. She staying around Bishan/Thomson area

Expect more and more of these class of foreigners coming to our shore. Also cost of living in Singapore is already very high comparing to Japan and European standard. Sure they will need to learn to live like local to cut corner on non essential stuffs.

DKSG
11-10-13, 19:00
ya different profiles.

I have ang mo telling me this $17 product is expensive, so she brought the $8 one. She staying around Bishan/Thomson area

Certainly different. Now got more middle management.
In the past, say, we have 200,000 expats, all of them housing allowance above $20,000 per month.

Now, we still have the 200,000 expats with $20,000 allowance per month, but we added another 200,000 with $10,000 per month and another 200,000 with $5,000 per month !

That is why prices have escalated so much in the last few years until now then start to plateau....

DKSG

k00L
14-10-13, 13:49
Profile is different.

In the past, most expat are senior management, nowadays we have got many fresh grad running away from economic crisis in Europe coming here looking for opportunity.

There are also many expat those convert from expat to local terms, so need to tighten their belt to move to OCR.

For these young hippies expat (typical associate level) they rather stay in CCR hdb like pinnacle@duxton rather OCR if budget is a constraint.
They work long hours (eap in banking, consulting), socialise in robertson quay after work ( for biz networking & romance) and need to come office fresh before their boss comes in, so it makes sense to stay in CCR

Ringo33
14-10-13, 15:00
For these young hippies expat (typical associate level) they rather stay in CCR hdb like pinnacle@duxton rather OCR if budget is a constraint.
They work long hours (eap in banking, consulting), socialise in robertson quay after work ( for biz networking & romance) and need to come office fresh before their boss comes in, so it makes sense to stay in CCR

banks are not the only employer in Singapore.

Royston8H
19-01-14, 22:27
if 6.9 million population is correctly forecasted, more richer expatriates will be replacing those who moved to OCR. ;)

Wendywallace
13-02-14, 09:50
Maybe units in Prime area need to be advertise more to be known and to have more potential buyers. Good luck in the future and I hope you will have more sale in the future.

johnlee
20-04-14, 09:47
Issue is the quantum required for units in the CCR. Many people cannot play once the absolute quantum's hit above 2mm. That combined with the ABSD has whacked a lot of secondary sales and new sales by developers in the CCR. But watch for older flats - some of these can still be good buys in the CCR if you do some homework

Jonathan0503
21-04-14, 13:34
Issue is the quantum required for units in the CCR. Many people cannot play once the absolute quantum's hit above 2mm. That combined with the ABSD has whacked a lot of secondary sales and new sales by developers in the CCR. But watch for older flats - some of these can still be good buys in the CCR if you do some homework

Go for MM unit lor. Many brand new all below $2m, or even below $1.5m.

blackjack21trader
21-04-14, 14:12
MM in CCR especially Orchard has the potential to hit beyond S$2million after 4 June 2014.

Good Luck.

Allthepies
10-05-14, 13:37
MM in CCR especially Orchard has the potential to hit beyond S$2million after 4 June 2014.

Good Luck.

Welcome back... huat ah huat ah

Jonathan0503
11-05-14, 13:52
MM in CCR especially Orchard has the potential to hit beyond S$2million after 4 June 2014.

Good Luck.


Wah, so fast? Must hit $1.5m first lah

minority
11-05-14, 20:41
these are totally 2 different segments.

those OCR carrotheads do not have the capacity to play in CCR. in fact that's why they become the carrothedas for OCR, because they die die must invest in a pty. And since they cannot afford anything bigger quantum, FEO makes your dream come true, by giving you a 500sqft SOHO in the middle of nowhere for you "as investment".

thats what I have saying along time. no tested. why would someone who can rent a nicely done up 3bed room hdb just for a 500sqf studio? and likly the rental for a dont up 3bed hdb will be same or cheaper than the current 500sqf rental. at those OCR MM prices.

minority
11-05-14, 20:43
Agree. I almost feel sorry for these people. Think they are buying into a dream when they are actually being sold a nightmare.

Still, how you going to get rich if there weren't any people like this in the world.

in the 1st place how to get rich with a MM? the quantum gain requires the psf to move up a lot. and there is a danger of the rental being suppressed by the surrounding HDB or older condos or ECs...

minority
11-05-14, 20:46
MM in CCR especially Orchard has the potential to hit beyond S$2million after 4 June 2014.

Good Luck.

mines are all waiting for ur $2M leh.

VS
12-05-14, 08:08
MM in CCR especially Orchard has the potential to hit beyond S$2million after 4 June 2014.

Good Luck.

got to wait for how long, after 4 June 2014?

Allthepies
12-05-14, 08:16
Any big news coming that will turn the tides?

propertyhans
03-07-14, 12:28
MM in CCR especially Orchard has the potential to hit beyond S$2million after 4 June 2014.

Good Luck.

What happened to your 4 June announcement? Now going to be 4th July Liao. Hehe.

sherlock
27-07-14, 12:17
Bro BJ very clever... he never say how long after 4th Jun 2014 hahaha

JacobDing
11-10-14, 13:22
High-end developments such as The Marq on Paterson Hill and Hilltops in Cairnhill Circle, for instance, have been completed for at least a year but still have hundreds of new units sitting unsold. If they are not sold within the next 12 months or less, developers may have to fork out extension charges to buy themselves more time after the two-year deadline. The high-end market has been languishing with slow sales and prices that are still below their peak. The additional buyer's stamp duty of up to 10 per cent introduced last year also whittled down foreign home demand, further hurting sales. Experts say that while indirect discounts such as rental guarantees or stamp duty absorption might be offered by some projects as the deadline nears, large cuts in prices are unlikely. A majority of developers bought the land at lower historical prices and so paying the extension charge will not erode their profit margins significantly. This option is preferred as cutting prices would not only affect their reputation but also face objections from earlier buyers.

DC33_2008
11-10-14, 14:17
Those districts are facing competition from the marina Bay Area as you can see even orchard road has to beep closed to bring crowds to the shopping belt on the first Saturday of the month. Deep pocket prefers new area just by looking at Marina one.
High-end developments such as The Marq on Paterson Hill and Hilltops in Cairnhill Circle, for instance, have been completed for at least a year but still have hundreds of new units sitting unsold. If they are not sold within the next 12 months or less, developers may have to fork out extension charges to buy themselves more time after the two-year deadline. The high-end market has been languishing with slow sales and prices that are still below their peak. The additional buyer's stamp duty of up to 10 per cent introduced last year also whittled down foreign home demand, further hurting sales. Experts say that while indirect discounts such as rental guarantees or stamp duty absorption might be offered by some projects as the deadline nears, large cuts in prices are unlikely. A majority of developers bought the land at lower historical prices and so paying the extension charge will not erode their profit margins significantly. This option is preferred as cutting prices would not only affect their reputation but also face objections from earlier buyers.

agentg
11-10-14, 15:53
The Marq on Paterson Hill and Hilltops in Cairnhill Circle under SC Global. They privatise the company not too long ago. Now single owner... sporean. No penalty for unsold units.

bonnienelson
09-10-18, 14:38
There are still value buys in CCR? Or famous carrotheads have migrated from OCR to CCR after reading reports on narrowing price gap?

CCR has more value in buys for sure because of the closer gaps.