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irisng
15-03-12, 08:52
An observation made by a German national who has lived in Singapore for 9 years.

44 years of economic and material success have spawned some very strange behaviours among Singaporeans.

They spent so much to buy a house or flat, furnished it up like a
palace, but spent their time outside, most of the time at work.
And the maids are the ones enjoying the million-dollar or multi-million-dollar assets..

Then they pay so much, the highest in the world, for a car only to park at home. Too expensive to drive, too many ERPs and car park charges to pay. And they are encouraged to park their cars at home and take public transport, being cheaper and more convenient.

And when Singaporeans travel, instead of seeing the places, they went shopping. The best part is that they would head for the cheapest bargains, buying stuff that they could get in Chinatown or pasar malam, at even cheaper prices. But they are still happy that they got a bargain.

And while the heartlanders are busy trying to make a life here, being told to bust off if they are not happy, which they could not, the rich and presumably very happy and contented citizens are buying up properties overseas just in case they need to make that escape from this paradise.

While many Singaporeans are thinking of jumping ship, or preparing to jump ship, hoards of new immigrants are rushing in to take their place in this paradise.

And to top it all up, they keep complaining about the govt and all the policies that they found unpalatable, but come every election, they will vote and return the govt to power.

Strange Singaporean behaviour !

Allthepies
15-03-12, 09:08
An observation made by a German national who has lived in Singapore for 9 years.

44 years of economic and material success have spawned some very strange behaviours among Singaporeans.

They spent so much to buy a house or flat, furnished it up like a
palace, but spent their time outside, most of the time at work.
And the maids are the ones enjoying the million-dollar or multi-million-dollar assets..

Then they pay so much, the highest in the world, for a car only to park at home. Too expensive to drive, too many ERPs and car park charges to pay. And they are encouraged to park their cars at home and take public transport, being cheaper and more convenient.

And when Singaporeans travel, instead of seeing the places, they went shopping. The best part is that they would head for the cheapest bargains, buying stuff that they could get in Chinatown or pasar malam, at even cheaper prices. But they are still happy that they got a bargain.

And while the heartlanders are busy trying to make a life here, being told to bust off if they are not happy, which they could not, the rich and presumably very happy and contented citizens are buying up properties overseas just in case they need to make that escape from this paradise.

While many Singaporeans are thinking of jumping ship, or preparing to jump ship, hoards of new immigrants are rushing in to take their place in this paradise.

And to top it all up, they keep complaining about the govt and all the policies that they found unpalatable, but come every election, they will vote and return the govt to power.

Strange Singaporean behaviour !

It doesn't really matter how other "general" Singaporeans behave or how other foreigners think or feel about us. They may be stereotyping us or just commenting based on their own points of views. :tsk-tsk:

The most important thing is how you actually live your own life and are you happy with that kind of lifestyle. full stop. :D

roly8
15-03-12, 10:16
pampered by the govt. :D

vboy
15-03-12, 10:19
Exactly! It doesnt matter how long this German has stayed in Singapore.
If he is open to other non-Western cultures, he will accept things as the way they are. If he likes it, he adopts it. If he cant, he will always criticize it and then move back home

Over here in Singapore, the ones that stay on are the ones who are able to appreciate the quirks and perks this place can offer. Its not perfect but so is everywhere other countries.

In Germany, most do not own the roof over their head. But most of them are very loyal to the company they work at. Perhaps this gives them a sense of security. This is their way of life and we should respect that.




It doesn't really matter how other "general" Singaporeans behave or how other foreigners think or feel about us. They may be stereotyping us or just commenting based on their own points of views. :tsk-tsk:

The most important thing is how you actually live your own life and are you happy with that kind of lifestyle. full stop. :D

devilplate
15-03-12, 10:45
sounds like stalingrad

hehehe

august
15-03-12, 11:13
sounds like stalingrad

hehehe

hahahaha :p

zzz1
15-03-12, 11:27
Well.. Is just a pot calling the kattle black . ..
We can , any time, come out a German 101.

PN
15-03-12, 11:36
An observation made by a German national who has lived in Singapore for 9 years.

44 years of economic and material success have spawned some very strange behaviours among Singaporeans.

They spent so much to buy a house or flat, furnished it up like a
palace, but spent their time outside, most of the time at work.
And the maids are the ones enjoying the million-dollar or multi-million-dollar assets..

Then they pay so much, the highest in the world, for a car only to park at home. Too expensive to drive, too many ERPs and car park charges to pay. And they are encouraged to park their cars at home and take public transport, being cheaper and more convenient.

And when Singaporeans travel, instead of seeing the places, they went shopping. The best part is that they would head for the cheapest bargains, buying stuff that they could get in Chinatown or pasar malam, at even cheaper prices. But they are still happy that they got a bargain.

And while the heartlanders are busy trying to make a life here, being told to bust off if they are not happy, which they could not, the rich and presumably very happy and contented citizens are buying up properties overseas just in case they need to make that escape from this paradise.

While many Singaporeans are thinking of jumping ship, or preparing to jump ship, hoards of new immigrants are rushing in to take their place in this paradise.

And to top it all up, they keep complaining about the govt and all the policies that they found unpalatable, but come every election, they will vote and return the govt to power.

Strange Singaporean behaviour !

Oh really?

I also have friends from Europe including German. Let me share how they live. They also done up their house nicely leh. Got nice carpet, wall paper and especially their furniture is definitely not from the shop houses at hdb neighborhood.

In the past years when I go to places like Phuket, Shanghai, Beijing, etc and look at the local market place, the Angmo are the one that bargain the most for the cheap and fake goods. Lots of them doing it.

Talk about complain. It's true that Singaporean complain a lot but they no action. In Europe, their action speaks louder than their voice. Stirke is so common in Angmo countries. If not happy with pay, strike. If not happy with changes in labor law, strike.

So is this unique to Singapore?

PN
15-03-12, 11:37
sounds like stalingrad

hehehe

Stalingrad is not Angmo lah ;)

devilplate
15-03-12, 11:42
Stalingrad is not Angmo lah ;)
oooo sure?

no wonder his english standard aso sub standard lor....

wahahahaha

devilplate
15-03-12, 11:45
Oh really?

I also have friends from Europe including German. Let me share how they live. They also done up their house nicely leh. Got nice carpet, wall paper and especially their furniture is definitely not from the shop houses at hdb neighborhood.



this one i agree....

i always had the impression tat angmors love to do up their home nice nice.....unlike sporeans/asian in general

perhaps tat german is trying to say sporean spend so much on home decor but hardly stay at hm bah

tat only shows spore vibrant and happening mah!!!! angmor countries vy boring one hor....after 6 only got pubs and disco lor....

land118
15-03-12, 12:51
just back from europe (area of swiss, german and french border), been there a few times. Ate at a Chinese restaurant that offer Buffet dinner. Quite value for money for the price per head if compared to some Chinese restaurants there that serve ala carte; got about 30 dishes. Buffet start at 6.45pm. Happened to be there early at 6.30pm, already have angmo at a few tables. By the time 7pm+ , 3/4 restaurant filled with angmo. All happily wacking the food. At 8pm, I had my fill after 2 servings. But I am probably the 1st one to leave while rest of angmos still going back and froth to buffet table. Some tables had wines, while rest had beers...; moral of the story...? :D

Allthepies
15-03-12, 13:11
just back from europe (area of swiss, german and french border), been there a few times. Ate at a Chinese restaurant that offer Buffet dinner. Quite value for money for the price per head if compared to some Chinese restaurants there that serve ala carte; got about 30 dishes. Buffet start at 6.45pm. Happened to be there early at 6.30pm, already have angmo at a few tables. By the time 7pm+ , 3/4 restaurant filled with angmo. All happily wacking the food. At 8pm, I had my fill after 2 servings. But I am probably the 1st one to leave while rest of angmos still going back and froth to buffet table. Some tables had wines, while rest had beers...; moral of the story...? :D

Is this the moral of the story?: there are good and bad ang mos just like there are good and bad singaporeans :cheers1:

azeoprop
15-03-12, 13:20
Moral of story is if cheap and good all will wack haa haa....:p

howgozit
15-03-12, 13:35
I find it strange that there isn't anyone that agrees to at least some of what was commented.

If you stop to think about it, I think the only reason that most people are offended by this is not because it is untrue but because the author is German... ie. a foreigner, presumably a foreign talent.

What if the "German national" was substituted by "Singaporean" in the article instead. If one were to read it again with just the first paragraph ammended, would anyone feel as defensive they are now?


This is an observation made by a 79 year old retired Singaporean Chinese school teacher.

44 years of economic and material success have spawned some very strange behaviours among Singaporeans.

They spent so much to buy a house or flat, furnished it up like a
palace, but spent their time outside, most of the time at work.
And the maids are the ones enjoying the million-dollar or multi-million-dollar assets..

Then they pay so much, the highest in the world, for a car only to park at home. Too expensive to drive, too many ERPs and car park charges to pay. And they are encouraged to park their cars at home and take public transport, being cheaper and more convenient.

And when Singaporeans travel, instead of seeing the places, they went shopping. The best part is that they would head for the cheapest bargains, buying stuff that they could get in Chinatown or pasar malam, at even cheaper prices. But they are still happy that they got a bargain.

And while the heartlanders are busy trying to make a life here, being told to bust off if they are not happy, which they could not, the rich and presumably very happy and contented citizens are buying up properties overseas just in case they need to make that escape from this paradise.

While many Singaporeans are thinking of jumping ship, or preparing to jump ship, hoards of new immigrants are rushing in to take their place in this paradise.

And to top it all up, they keep complaining about the govt and all the policies that they found unpalatable, but come every election, they will vote and return the govt to power.

Strange Singaporean behaviour !

irisng
15-03-12, 15:38
I'm not siding on either side though I'm a "100%" Singaporean. I found that some of the things that he mentioned are actually quite true but only to some Singaporeans and not all, must make this clear. One bamboo stick cannot hit the whole ship (translated from Chinese version).

I have a friend (herself, daughter and son), spent about S$270 each on airtickets and hotels to go to Bangkok. The most frequent place that she went for shopping is Pratunam Wholesale market because she said shopping centres things are expensive. She bought a lot of children clothings (> 10 pcs) for her niece, ranging from $2 to $5 and she was happy with it. I asked her was it worth it, spent so much money to go to Bangkok to get all those clothing, if you added your airtickets + hotels bills, it was actually not cheap at all. She said, so that nobody will have the same design with them loh.:doh: But I think she had visited other places like floating markets etc also.

They got hook to Bangkok after the previous trip, she booked again for the next trip but unfortunately, the trip was cancelled due to flood. She changed her destination to HK and Macau and when they came back, her daugher complained that HK was not nice, will never go there again.:doh: They complained that the food and things are expensive.

Actually, different people has different type of requirement. Some people prefer to spend on house, some spend on food, some spend on cars, some spend on travels etc etc and different countries also have different cultures. Very often, we see ang moh, they like to backpack for travel but for us Chinese, I don't think we like it.

irisng
15-03-12, 16:13
An observation made by a German national who has lived in Singapore for 9 years.

They spent so much to buy a house or flat, furnished it up like a
palace, but spent their time outside, most of the time at work.
And the maids are the ones enjoying the million-dollar or multi-million-dollar assets..
It shows their status. It satisfies their esteem needs. Heard of the hierarchy of needs? Maybe it is also their interest to furnish their house so that they can feel comfortable after a day work.

Then they pay so much, the highest in the world, for a car only to park at home. Too expensive to drive, too many ERPs and car park charges to pay. And they are encouraged to park their cars at home and take public transport, being cheaper and more convenient.
It is human nature. Willing to spend so much on cars but not willing to pay the extra charges.

Like some people, not willing to part their money for travel, or go to expensive restaurants for good food but they rather lost their money in shares or gambling.

I have a friend, he is very rich, has 1 terrace house and 3 condos, household income >15K, when his computer spoils, he always get his friend to do it for free, not willing to send to the repair shops. :doh:

And when Singaporeans travel, instead of seeing the places, they went shopping. The best part is that they would head for the cheapest bargains, buying stuff that they could get in Chinatown or pasar malam, at even cheaper prices. But they are still happy that they got a bargain.
Human nature again. Who doesn't want cheap and good things but not all lah, some also go for sceneries. Like me, I always go for sceneries & shoppings, always look for some souvenirs display to put at home.

And while the heartlanders are busy trying to make a life here, being told to bust off if they are not happy, which they could not, the rich and presumably very happy and contented citizens are buying up properties overseas just in case they need to make that escape from this paradise.
This is for investments.

While many Singaporeans are thinking of jumping ship, or preparing to jump ship, hoards of new immigrants are rushing in to take their place in this paradise.
They have a better jobs waiting for them.

And to top it all up, they keep complaining about the govt and all the policies that they found unpalatable, but come every election, they will vote and return the govt to power.
Not everybody complain lah. There are always some loyal citizens lor.

Strange Singaporean behaviour!
And I also don't understand why some countries can't live in harmony, must have w... & r....

ysyap
15-03-12, 16:24
Stalingrad is not Angmo lah ;)He looks down on people using 'Singlish' or poor English. Sigh! Should have listened to my mother last time to study hard so others won't look down on me... :tongue3:

ysyap
15-03-12, 16:27
just back from europe (area of swiss, german and french border), been there a few times. Ate at a Chinese restaurant that offer Buffet dinner. Quite value for money for the price per head if compared to some Chinese restaurants there that serve ala carte; got about 30 dishes. Buffet start at 6.45pm. Happened to be there early at 6.30pm, already have angmo at a few tables. By the time 7pm+ , 3/4 restaurant filled with angmo. All happily wacking the food. At 8pm, I had my fill after 2 servings. But I am probably the 1st one to leave while rest of angmos still going back and froth to buffet table. Some tables had wines, while rest had beers...; moral of the story...? :DMoral of the story.. Singaporeans are busy people. Used to leaving buffet early coz still got work to do... Europeans are generally more willing to take things slow and enjoy life more fully... :cheers1:

PN
15-03-12, 16:44
He looks down on people using 'Singlish' or poor English. Sigh! Should have listened to my mother last time to study hard so others won't look down on me... :tongue3:

Because he is not local, 100% Chinese and a :banana:

irisng
15-03-12, 17:00
Moral of the story.. Singaporeans are busy people. Used to leaving buffet early coz still got work to do... Europeans are generally more willing to take things slow and enjoy life more fully... :cheers1:

Fully agree. When I went for my tour, I always see the ang moh at the beach or hotel pool relaxing while we, chinese will always rush for time, go out early and come back late, try to make full use of the time, seldom enjoy the hotel facilities.

irisng
15-03-12, 17:14
He looks down on people using 'Singlish' or poor English.

Singlish is our Singaporean unique style. Some can speak good English but in order to join in the fun, they also speak Singlish, haha. Some can speak but cannot write and vice versa.

What is there to be proud of knowing good English, English is not the only path to success. Some people with no or little knowledge of English also can succeed in their life. BUT of course, I think everybody also hope that they can master the English lor, including myself, aiyoh so embarrassing leh.:ashamed1:

一山还有一山高 :D

zzz1
15-03-12, 21:16
Fully agree. When I went for my tour, I always see the ang moh at the beach or hotel pool relaxing while we, chinese will always rush for time, go out early and come back late, try to make full use of the time, seldom enjoy the hotel facilities.
That is what happen to their economic...Wan to relax and yet wan to demand good pay rate...

ysyap
15-03-12, 22:33
Singlish is our Singaporean unique style. Some can speak good English but in order to join in the fun, they also speak Singlish, haha. Some can speak but cannot write and vice versa.

What is there to be proud of knowing good English, English is not the only path to success. Some people with no or little knowledge of English also can succeed in their life. BUT of course, I think everybody also hope that they can master the English lor, including myself, aiyoh so embarrassing leh.:ashamed1:

一山还有一山高 :DChinese is the next kid on the block... If you can sell one bottle of coke to every Chinese in China and make a profit of S$0.80, you are a billionaire already... :spliff:

radha08
29-03-12, 09:04
An observation made by a German national who has lived in Singapore for 9 years.

44 years of economic and material success have spawned some very strange behaviours among Singaporeans.

They spent so much to buy a house or flat, furnished it up like a
palace, but spent their time outside, most of the time at work.
And the maids are the ones enjoying the million-dollar or multi-million-dollar assets..

Then they pay so much, the highest in the world, for a car only to park at home. Too expensive to drive, too many ERPs and car park charges to pay. And they are encouraged to park their cars at home and take public transport, being cheaper and more convenient.

And when Singaporeans travel, instead of seeing the places, they went shopping. The best part is that they would head for the cheapest bargains, buying stuff that they could get in Chinatown or pasar malam, at even cheaper prices. But they are still happy that they got a bargain.

And while the heartlanders are busy trying to make a life here, being told to bust off if they are not happy, which they could not, the rich and presumably very happy and contented citizens are buying up properties overseas just in case they need to make that escape from this paradise.

While many Singaporeans are thinking of jumping ship, or preparing to jump ship, hoards of new immigrants are rushing in to take their place in this paradise.

And to top it all up, they keep complaining about the govt and all the policies that they found unpalatable, but come every election, they will vote and return the govt to power.

Strange Singaporean behaviour !

in a strange way that makes sense...:D :D :D

howgozit
31-03-12, 14:09
I would like to dispel the notion that Singlish is uniquely Singaporean. Why?... bcoz Malaysians speak the same way too!

Other than East Malaysians (who tend to pronounce certain words differently), its almost impossible to tell the difference btw somebody from KL and somebody from Singapore.

So Singlish is nothing to be proud of... not speaking good English is not a matter of lack of knowledge but lack of effort.

The average Singaporean can write pretty well with adequate knowledge of grammar and sentence structure.... so why is it so difficult to reproduce that in speech?

We are a very self-consious people.. for the wrong reasons. People will laugh at you when you say "Hmm... I wonder... why is it so?" instead of "Eh... why like dat ah?".





Singlish is our Singaporean unique style. Some can speak good English but in order to join in the fun, they also speak Singlish, haha. Some can speak but cannot write and vice versa.

What is there to be proud of knowing good English, English is not the only path to success. Some people with no or little knowledge of English also can succeed in their life. BUT of course, I think everybody also hope that they can master the English lor, including myself, aiyoh so embarrassing leh.:ashamed1:

一山还有一山高 :D

fclim
31-03-12, 14:46
Singlish is our Singaporean unique style. Some can speak good English but in order to join in the fun, they also speak Singlish, haha. Some can speak but cannot write and vice versa.

What is there to be proud of knowing good English, English is not the only path to success. Some people with no or little knowledge of English also can succeed in their life. BUT of course, I think everybody also hope that they can master the English lor, including myself, aiyoh so embarrassing leh.:ashamed1:

一山还有一山高 :D

English has opened up the world to me and enabled me to enjoy many things that it has to offer, like this forum.

If I am only conversant in a little known dialect/language, the world around me becomes very much smaller.

Komo
31-03-12, 14:47
in any case find that singapore is already losing it's identity somewhat.
don't feel that safe anymore. don't feel that carefree anymore. more places are out to cheat people (maybe they think singaporean easy to cheat)....:(

howgozit
31-03-12, 15:38
Who are the "they" you are referring to?

Cannot be Singaporeans all goody goody right?


in any case find that singapore is already losing it's identity somewhat.
don't feel that safe anymore. don't feel that carefree anymore. more places are out to cheat people (maybe they think singaporean easy to cheat)....:(

irisng
31-03-12, 17:29
[quote=howgozit]
The average Singaporean can write pretty well with adequate knowledge of grammar and sentence structure.... so why is it so difficult to reproduce that in speech?

When you are not in that person position, you won't understand. Some people can really speak very well but they can't write and don't be surprised that they cannot read either. In fact languages are a kind of skill that is not easy to master. How many students can score ''A" in their languages in school"? It seems that maths and sciences are easier to score. Does it means that they never put in their effort in mastering the languages?:tsk-tsk:

You need to speak more, read more and write more and all these partly depends on your environment also. Like those aunties/Ah Ma, they can speak Mandarin, sometimes even English but can you imagine how many of them can read and write? Frankly speaking, I can't speak good English though I'm English educated simply because I speak more Mandarin than English, but when come to writing, I can write better English than Chinese, and yet I always score "A" for my Chinese while for my English, so-so only, funny, right, I guess I assoicate more to Chinese speaking environment.:D

howgozit
31-03-12, 18:01
You have misunderstood me.

I am not talking about scoring in exams... (a Singaporean obsession). A student may score an A in English but still speaks like an Ah Beng.

What I am trying to say is that Singlish is over glamourised and touted as "uniquely Singaporean". But it is not unique, it is just poorly spoken English.

If you can write English in a correct way surely you can say it in the same correct way. I am not talking about accents just proper standard English. I think most of us are simply not trying (myself included)






When you are not in that person position, you won't understand. Some people can really speak very well but they can't write and don't be surprised that they cannot read either. In fact languages are a kind of skill that is not easy to master. How many students can score ''A" in their languages in school"? It seems that maths and sciences are easier to score. Does it means that they never put in their effort in mastering the languages?:tsk-tsk:

You need to speak more, read more and write more and all these partly depends on your environment also. Like those aunties/Ah Ma, they can speak Mandarin, sometimes even English but can you imagine how many of them can read and write? Frankly speaking, I can't speak good English though I'm English educated simply because I speak more Mandarin than English, but when come to writing, I can write better English than Chinese, and yet I always score "A" for my Chinese while for my English, so-so only, funny, right, I guess I assoicate more to Chinese speaking environment.:D

buttercarp
31-03-12, 19:16
I would like to dispel the notion that Singlish is uniquely Singaporean. Why?... bcoz Malaysians speak the same way too!

Other than East Malaysians (who tend to pronounce certain words differently), its almost impossible to tell the difference btw somebody from KL and somebody from Singapore.

So Singlish is nothing to be proud of... not speaking good English is not a matter of lack of knowledge but lack of effort.

The average Singaporean can write pretty well with adequate knowledge of grammar and sentence structure.... so why is it so difficult to reproduce that in speech?

We are a very self-consious people.. for the wrong reasons. People will laugh at you when you say "Hmm... I wonder... why is it so?" instead of "Eh... why like dat ah?".

I equate Singlish to a our dialect of English.
So we speak singlish when we are relaxed and at home.
However at work especially during presentation and speeches, we are to speak formal english. Also speaking formal english makes the setting serious and somewhat presumptuous, so using singlish in the colloquail setting is more natural.
Btw, there is a subtle difference in accent between how a singaporean and a malaysian speaks english and even mandarin. I know cos my husband's side are from malaysia.

ysyap
31-03-12, 20:58
I equate Singlish to a our dialect of English.
So we speak singlish when we are relaxed and at home.
However at work especially during presentation and speeches, we are to speak formal english. Also speaking formal english makes the setting serious and somewhat presumptuous, so using singlish in the colloquail setting is more natural.
Btw, there is a subtle difference in accent between how a singaporean and a malaysian speaks english and even mandarin. I know cos my husband's side are from malaysia.I would have to agree with you on the english dialect part! :) When I speak to clients, I have to speak proper English (not referring to accent). When I speak to an English or an American, I inevitably catch myself speaking proper English too! Honestly, the written standards of some of my English and Canadian colleagues is worse than mine! :)

howgozit
31-03-12, 21:11
Yes there are accent differences with the most distinct accent coming from East Malaysia...ie. Sabah, Sarawak, Miri, Kuching, Sandakan....etc.

But the pidgin English we speak is the same despite the accents.

Singlish, as we call it, is saying something like "can do like dat one meh?" This would be understood in Malaysia too whatever the accent. The background is that Malaysia and Singapore used to be what we call Malaya so we generally share the same "culture" if you can call it that. So how can we call Singlish uniquely Singapore?

To claim such an "honour" IMHO is quite silly.

With regards to making the setting informal and natural.... this is like saying in England and Australia...etc, people are always formal and serious. In Singapore, trying to speak English properly is seen as snobbish and pretentious, why would anyone make the effort to speak better?

People in the generation of Lee Kuan Yew, Yong Pung How, Goh Keng Swee.... etc spoke good English not bcoz of their overseas education but bcoz of the correct emphasis during their formative years in school in Singapore.



I equate Singlish to a our dialect of English.
So we speak singlish when we are relaxed and at home.
However at work especially during presentation and speeches, we are to speak formal english. Also speaking formal english makes the setting serious and somewhat presumptuous, so using singlish in the colloquail setting is more natural.
Btw, there is a subtle difference in accent between how a singaporean and a malaysian speaks english and even mandarin. I know cos my husband's side are from malaysia.

howgozit
31-03-12, 21:27
Unfortunately many people cannot code switch like you and can only do one type of English... Singlish.

I am not claiming that I can speak excellent English which I don't, I speak a lot of Singlish as well. But what would we want ourselves and particularly our kids to strive for...

Anyway pls forgive my rantings... I just feel that our English standards are slipping favouring Singlish.


I would have to agree with you on the english dialect part! :) When I speak to clients, I have to speak proper English (not referring to accent). When I speak to an English or an American, I inevitably catch myself speaking proper English too! Honestly, the written standards of some of my English and Canadian colleagues is worse than mine! :)

ysyap
31-03-12, 21:33
Unfortunately many people cannot code switch like you and can only do one type of English... Singlish.

I am not claiming that I can speak excellent English which I don't, I speak a lot of Singlish as well. But what would we want ourselves and particularly our kids to strive for...

Anyway pls forgive my rantings... I just feel that our English standards are slipping favouring Singlish.You are certainly not ranting, just giving your opinions! When you refer that our English standards are slipping favouring Singlish, you already assumed that Singlish is of a lower standard than English! Well, once upon a time, the Chinese language was considered inferior in our local education system by the same person who now claims that the Chinese language is increasingly more important and should never be ignored. Time can change things around us and I certainly hope that Singlish will evolve and be universally recognized in days to come!!! :cheers1:

howgozit
31-03-12, 21:43
Wait a minute... you mean you don't think Singlish is of a lower standard?

Btw, may I know who is the person you are referring to whom you claim considered Chinese inferior earlier but now to be increasingly important?


You are certainly not ranting, just giving your opinions! When you refer our English standards are slipping favouring Singlish, you already assumed that Singlish is of a lower standard than English! Well, once upon a time, the Chinese language was considered inferior in our local education system by the same person who now claims that the Chinese language is increasingly more important. Time can change things around us!!! :cheers1:

howgozit
31-03-12, 21:53
Singlish is already recognised as pidgin English....


You are certainly not ranting, just giving your opinions! When you refer that our English standards are slipping favouring Singlish, you already assumed that Singlish is of a lower standard than English! Well, once upon a time, the Chinese language was considered inferior in our local education system by the same person who now claims that the Chinese language is increasingly more important and should never be ignored. Time can change things around us and I certainly hope that Singlish will evolve and be universally recognized in days to come!!! :cheers1:

ysyap
31-03-12, 22:03
Wait a minute... you mean you don't think Singlish is of a lower standard?

Btw, may I know who is the person you are referring to whom you claim considered Chinese inferior earlier but now to be increasingly important?I personally think that Singlish is a unique language found primarily in this region (including Malaysia). I prefer not to make comparisons with other languages. Furthermore, Singlish is rapidly gaining recognition.

It gets a little too political and sensitive to explain who that person is. I wasn't around then to verify all these claims anyway so better don't talk any further! I only hear it from an earlier generation. :rolleyes:

ysyap
31-03-12, 22:06
Singlish is already recognised as pidgin English....Can it be pidgin Chinese for all its punctuations and expressions? Lol! :)

buttercarp
31-03-12, 22:09
I just feel that our English standards are slipping favouring Singlish.
This is so true.
I grew up in an English speaking home.
I don't remember speaking Singlish to my parents when I was young.
Even till today, when I speak to my parents I still speak proper English.
However when I visit my father's blog, he uses so much Singlish in his blog that it is beyond recognition! This is to blend with today's generation Y.
When I post on his blog, I use Singlish as well. Of course i do it anonymously:o .

howgozit
31-03-12, 22:19
Aiyoh.. Singlish is not a language lah.... gaining recognition?... where?

Wrt the person you claim to consider Chinese inferior, I think you may be mistaken. Chinese was always considered important by that person, so much so that dialects had to be banned on the airwaves and media.

But Chinese schools did suffer persecution, this is true. This is not bcoz of the Chinese language but bcoz of political affiliation with communist China. The result was that forward thinking parents generally shunned Chinese medium schools in favour of English medium schools. That may have created an impression that Chinese schools were inferior.

Btw, the person that you may referring to sent all his kids to Chinese medium schools.


I personally think that Singlish is a unique language found primarily in this region (including Malaysia). I prefer not to make comparisons with other languages. Furthermore, Singlish is rapidly gaining recognition.

It gets a little too political and sensitive to explain who that person is. I wasn't around then to verify all these claims anyway so better don't talk any further! I only hear it from an earlier generation. :rolleyes:

ysyap
31-03-12, 22:55
Aiyoh.. Singlish is not a language lah.... gaining recognition?... where?

Wrt the person you claim to consider Chinese inferior, I think you may be mistaken. Chinese was always considered important by that person, so much so that dialects had to be banned on the airwaves and media.

But Chinese schools did suffer persecution, this is true. This is not bcoz of the Chinese language but bcoz of political affiliation with communist China. The result was that forward thinking parents generally shunned Chinese medium schools in favour of English medium schools. That may have created an impression that Chinese schools were inferior.

Btw, the person that you may referring to sent all his kids to Chinese medium schools.Yup yup... If Singlish is not a language, it should never be weighted against other languages so what standards are we measuring it against?

Good job... so u do know who I was referring to and yes to the political affiliation with communism... anyway, your interpretation of that entire episode might differ from another so its a very subjective issue but yes, Chinese as a language is definitely gaining popularity internationally! :)

ysyap
31-03-12, 23:02
This is so true.
I grew up in an English speaking home.
I don't remember speaking Singlish to my parents when I was young.
Even till today, when I speak to my parents I still speak proper English.
However when I visit my father's blog, he uses so much Singlish in his blog that it is beyond recognition! This is to blend with today's generation Y.
When I post on his blog, I use Singlish as well. Of course i do it anonymously:o .So fun... u post on your dad's blog? Ask your kids to post on their grandfather's blog too! Then again your kids might well be posting on your facebook or blog too! The world like you've never seen or heard of when you were growing up! :spliff:

howgozit
31-03-12, 23:25
I have a relative who was incarcerated in the crackdown..

My two older siblings were then in Chinese schools... my father upon seeing my relative getting into trouble with the authorities decided to put me in an English school instead since I was just starting.

Btw, my relative was released and is a big time capitalist now, owning factories in many countries, big supporter of the incumbent gahmen. Funny turn of events, don't you think?

Anyway, if this discussion of Singlish upsets you, my apologies. I understand that many people fiercely defend Singlish, I get it.

It is just my opinion that the standard of SPOKEN English is deteoriating worse than before. I suspect due to the over-glamourisation of Singlish.

My two siblings despite being educated in Chinese medium school speaks fairly good English, I would say even better than me, it is all about making an effort. In our current environment I feel my children are worse off bcoz Singlish is more pervasive than before.


Yup yup... If Singlish is not a language, it should never be weighted against other languages so what standards are we measuring it against?

Good job... so u do know who I was referring to and yes to the political affiliation with communism... anyway, your interpretation of that entire episode might differ from another so its a very subjective issue but yes, Chinese as a language is definitely gaining popularity internationally! :)

irisng
01-04-12, 00:06
I would have to agree with you on the english dialect part! :) When I speak to clients, I have to speak proper English (not referring to accent). When I speak to an English or an American, I inevitably catch myself speaking proper English too! Honestly, the written standards of some of my English and Canadian colleagues is worse than mine! :)

I agree with you too, it depends on the situation and who you talk to but I always get "tongue-tied" when I speak to ang-moh and Indian, maybe most of the time, I speak dialects/Mandarin to relatives & colleagues except English to my children. To own people, no pressure, very relax, don't know how to use it in English, use Mandarin to subsitute, hehe.:ashamed1:

Normally I don't use lor, leh, lah, hor, meh etc in my writing, but see that so many people use it in this forum, it gives me a sense of relaxation and closeness, so join in the fun lor, yes, btw is this "lor" also considered as singlish?:spliff:

I think educated people using singlish only to their very close friends/relatives. They know how to differentiate between when to use singlish and when to use proper English. Non-educated people, cannot blame them lah, they are not properly taught. My sister-in-law who has only Pr 6 education used to get confuse with "lend" and "borrow". Whenever she wants her niece to lend her colour pencils to another little girl, she will say "borrow her" instead of "lend it to her". Cannot blame her lor, nobody ever correct her mistakes, if you correct for her, she will think that you look down on her or laugh at her, how?:(

irisng
01-04-12, 00:21
How to pronounce "ABALONE"?

ysyap
01-04-12, 08:00
I have a relative who was incarcerated in the crackdown..

My two older siblings were then in Chinese schools... my father upon seeing my relative getting into trouble with the authorities decided to put me in an English school instead since I was just starting.

Btw, my relative was released and is a big time capitalist now, owning factories in many countries, big supporter of the incumbent gahmen. Funny turn of events, don't you think?

Anyway, if this discussion of Singlish upsets you, my apologies. I understand that many people fiercely defend Singlish, I get it.

It is just my opinion that the standard of SPOKEN English is deteoriating worse than before. I suspect due to the over-glamourisation of Singlish.

My two siblings despite being educated in Chinese medium school speaks fairly good English, I would say even better than me, it is all about making an effort. In our current environment I feel my children are worse off bcoz Singlish is more pervasive than before.Not upset lah. No offences taken.

I do agree that the standard of spoken English in our country is not ideal. Although we might currently be leagues ahead of most Asian countries, I guess such comparisons might make us more complacent! The blatant truth is many countries are increasingly putting more emphasis on the English language, whether spoken or written, while our country is emphasizing more on the Chinese language. The gap in the standard of spoken English between ourselves and other countries will not narrow in years to come.

Enjoyed this insightful discussion with you... :cool:

ysyap
01-04-12, 08:06
How to pronounce "ABALONE"?A-Ba-Lo-Ne. :o

ysyap
01-04-12, 08:09
I agree with you too, it depends on the situation and who you talk to but I always get "tongue-tied" when I speak to ang-moh and Indian, maybe most of the time, I speak dialects/Mandarin to relatives & colleagues except English to my children. To own people, no pressure, very relax, don't know how to use it in English, use Mandarin to subsitute, hehe.:ashamed1:

Normally I don't use lor, leh, lah, hor, meh etc in my writing, but see that so many people use it in this forum, it gives me a sense of relaxation and closeness, so join in the fun lor, yes, btw is this "lor" also considered as singlish?:spliff:

I think educated people using singlish only to their very close friends/relatives. They know how to differentiate between when to use singlish and when to use proper English. Non-educated people, cannot blame them lah, they are not properly taught. My sister-in-law who has only Pr 6 education used to get confuse with "lend" and "borrow". Whenever she wants her niece to lend her colour pencils to another little girl, she will say "borrow her" instead of "lend it to her". Cannot blame her lor, nobody ever correct her mistakes, if you correct for her, she will think that you look down on her or laugh at her, how?:(Let me guess... u are listening to radio channel 93.8 or 90.5? No need to correct lah! I wouldn't if I know my efforts to correct will be misconsctruded. :cheers1:

irisng
01-04-12, 09:57
Let me guess... u are listening to radio channel 93.8 or 90.5? No need to correct lah! I wouldn't if I know my efforts to correct will be misconsctruded. :cheers1:

I only listen to Radio Channel 93.8 during weekdays when I was on my way to work inside the car.

According to Radio 93.8, "Abalone" was also pronounced as "A-Ba-Lo-Ne", so how about "lonely" is it pronounced as "lo-ne-ly", hahaha. :D Just joking.

Remember when I was in Sec 1, one day, my classmate and I were waiting for bus at the bus-stop, a lady's ang-moh approached us for some directions. We couldn't understand what she was trying to ask, so my classmate replied her "catch no ball", and that lady's ang moh was very puzzled and she asked back "catch.... what?", hahahaha.:ashamed1:

ysyap
01-04-12, 10:34
I only listen to Radio Channel 93.8 during weekdays when I was on my way to work inside the car.

According to Radio 93.8, "Abalone" was also pronounced as "A-Ba-Lo-Ne", so how about "lonely" is it pronounced as "lo-ne-ly", hahaha. :D Just joking.

Remember when I was in Sec 1, one day, my classmate and I were waiting for bus at the bus-stop, a lady's ang-moh approached us for some directions. We couldn't understand what she was trying to ask, so my classmate replied her "catch no ball", and that lady's ang moh was very puzzled and she asked back "catch.... what?", hahahaha.:ashamed1:Wah... u good memory leh... I don't even recall what happened in sec 4 other than the fact that I took my 'O' Levels! Lol! ;)

howgozit
01-04-12, 13:59
I only listen to Radio Channel 93.8 during weekdays when I was on my way to work inside the car.

According to Radio 93.8, "Abalone" was also pronounced as "A-Ba-Lo-Ne", so how about "lonely" is it pronounced as "lo-ne-ly", hahaha. :D Just joking.

Remember when I was in Sec 1, one day, my classmate and I were waiting for bus at the bus-stop, a lady's ang-moh approached us for some directions. We couldn't understand what she was trying to ask, so my classmate replied her "catch no ball", and that lady's ang moh was very puzzled and she asked back "catch.... what?", hahahaha.:ashamed1:

This is what I mean... English is suppose to be our 1st language. But if we cannot understand an Englishman or the Englishman cannot understand us then I think we may have a problem.

Here's another Singlish use of a word that will confuse a native English speaker, "FETCH".... the way it is used in Singlish has a different meaning. "I fetch Ah Boy to tuition" or "I fetch you to school".

Singapore going forward has to master at least one language. Most Chinese Singaporeans Chinese literacy are only half past six. Now our English is also becoming half past six.

Many of the new up and coming China Chinese business leaders are effectively bilingual, comfortable in both Chinese and English. While their vocabulary is smaller than the average Singaporean, their sentence structure and language composition is more correct and they are better understood compared to a Singaporean using Singlish.

IMHO.

buttercarp
01-04-12, 14:15
This is what I mean... English is suppose to be our 1st language. But if we cannot understand an Englishman or the Englishman cannot understand us then I think we may have a problem.

Here's another Singlish use of a word that will confuse a native English speaker, "FETCH".... the way it is used in Singlish has a different meaning. "I fetch Ah Boy to tuition" or "I fetch you to school".

Singapore going forward has to master at least one language. Most Chinese Singaporeans Chinese literacy are only half past six. Now our English is also becoming half past six.

Many of the new up and coming China Chinese business leaders are effectively bilingual, comfortable in both Chinese and English. While their vocabulary is smaller than the average Singaporean, their sentence structure and language composition is more correct and they are better understood compared to a Singaporean using Singlish.

IMHO.

Yup... indeed confusing, but it can be a cultural thing.
Eg "put up with someone" can be different meaning in different cultures.

In my home , i will not protest if my kids to puntuate their sentences with la lor leh, cos they know that they are not supposed to use this in written english. However if they use improper phrases that you mentioned, then they will be corrected.

ysyap
01-04-12, 14:31
Yup... indeed confusing, but it can be a cultural thing.
Eg "put up with someone" can be different meaning in different cultures.

In my home , i will not protest if my kids to puntuate their sentences with la lor leh, cos they know that they are not supposed to use this in written english. However if they use improper phrases that you mentioned, then they will be corrected.Its good that your kids know the difference between English and leisurely spoken Singlish. Like you rightly pointed out earlier, some people simply don't know the difference! :rolleyes:

irisng
01-04-12, 17:04
Wah... u good memory leh... I don't even recall what happened in sec 4 other than the fact that I took my 'O' Levels! Lol! ;)

Aiyah, because this is a very unique case, that's why till now I still can remember. Whenever I think of it, I will keep smiling to myself. Actually I have forgotten quite a lot of things already.:sleep:

irisng
01-04-12, 17:25
This is what I mean... English is suppose to be our 1st language. But if we cannot understand an Englishman or the Englishman cannot understand us then I think we may have a problem.

Here's another Singlish use of a word that will confuse a native English speaker, "FETCH".... the way it is used in Singlish has a different meaning. "I fetch Ah Boy to tuition" or "I fetch you to school".

Singapore going forward has to master at least one language. Most Chinese Singaporeans Chinese literacy are only half past six. Now our English is also becoming half past six.

Many of the new up and coming China Chinese business leaders are effectively bilingual, comfortable in both Chinese and English. While their vocabulary is smaller than the average Singaporean, their sentence structure and language composition is more correct and they are better understood compared to a Singaporean using Singlish.

IMHO.

During my time, English was not so popular, there were still a lot of Chinese schools around. Couldn't remember when was it, I think govt had a campaign called "SPEAK MORE MANDARIN, xxxxx", something like that, but I don't think there is such a campaign called "SPEAK MORE ENGLISH" leh. :D So our spoken English becomes "ROJAK" : dialects + malay + chinese + some english = singlish.:D Very creative hor, Singaporeans.:cheers5:

irisng
01-04-12, 17:33
Yup... indeed confusing, but it can be a cultural thing.
Eg "put up with someone" can be different meaning in different cultures.

In my home , i will not protest if my kids to puntuate their sentences with la lor leh, cos they know that they are not supposed to use this in written english. However if they use improper phrases that you mentioned, then they will be corrected.

Right, it is easier to correct your children than to correct your in-laws, it will make them feel embarrass.

:doh: My daughter so big already still follow my sister-in-law using the wrong word like the "borrow" and "lend", I have to point it out to her.

ysyap
01-04-12, 21:35
During my time, English was not so popular, there were still a lot of Chinese schools around. Couldn't remember when was it, I think govt had a campaign called "SPEAK MORE MANDARIN, xxxxx", something like that, but I don't think there is such a campaign called "SPEAK MORE ENGLISH" leh. :D So our spoken English becomes "ROJAK" : dialects + malay + chinese + some english = singlish.:D Very creative hor, Singaporeans.:cheers5:I don't know how this works out. Although there is no campaign to promote the speaking good English, it is apparent that all subjects in our schools are taught in English except Mother Tongue. As such, it is a common belief that children will naturally pick up English when they enter Primary School therefore the emphasis for parents is to speak and communicate with their children in their Mother Tongues at home before they enter school. :cheers5:

irisng
01-04-12, 21:55
I don't know how this works out. Although there is no campaign to promote the speaking good English, it is apparent that all subjects in our schools are taught in English except Mother Tongue. As such, it is a common belief that children will naturally pick up English when they enter Primary School therefore the emphasis for parents is to speak and communicate with their children in their Mother Tongues at home before they enter school. :cheers5:

Actually I also can't remember very clearly what subjects I took during my Pr education. My colleague told me that when she was in Primary school, her History was taught in Chinese, but when she went to Sec school, it was taught in English, and funny things was, her Primary school was actually a English school.

I think I ever heard someone said that, if you can't speak proper English, don't speak to your kids, let them pick up from the school. Aiyah, by the time I knew it, it was too late already lah, my children had already picked up the lousy English from me loh.:banghead:

ysyap
01-04-12, 22:38
Actually I also can't remember very clearly what subjects I took during my Pr education. My colleague told me that when she was in Primary school, her History was taught in Chinese, but when she went to Sec school, it was taught in English, and funny things was, her Primary school was actually a English school.

I think I ever heard someone said that, if you can't speak proper English, don't speak to your kids, let them pick up from the school. Aiyah, by the time I knew it, it was too late already lah, my children had already picked up the lousy English from me loh.:banghead:When History was taught in Chinese, we're talking about 1950s/60s? Your colleague should be retired by now or about to retire? Actually I plan for semi-retirement before even hitting the 50s! Not sure if possible! Must enjoy life when my body can still take me! :cheers5:

irisng
02-04-12, 21:06
When History was taught in Chinese, we're talking about 1950s/60s? Your colleague should be retired by now or about to retire? Actually I plan for semi-retirement before even hitting the 50s! Not sure if possible! Must enjoy life when my body can still take me! :cheers5:

But strange leh, she was born in 1965 (about 47 yrs old now). I asked her again this morning to double-confirm and is correct leh, her Pr school History and Geography were taught in Chinese, so when she went to Sec School, she had problems in catching up these 2 subjects as they had changed to English syllabus. :scared-1:Maybe her Pr School was special, I can't remember I learned my History and Geography in Chinese leh.

Actually, I also think of that, enjoy when you still can walk. The best is work and enjoy at the same time. :47: IMHO, if a person don't work, his/her mind tends to turn "rusty", maybe when you get older and have enough saving for your retirement, find a less stressful things or job to do to occupy your time or go for holidays with your spouse and children to enjoy the harmony of the family. For my case, I don't think I have the chance to retire early lor, already pass 50 and just committed a ppty and have to work hard to pay for the instalments:banghead: . Good luck to you, keep up to your goal.:cheers3:

ysyap
02-04-12, 22:24
But strange leh, she was born in 1965 (about 47 yrs old now). I asked her again this morning to double-confirm and is correct leh, her Pr school History and Geography were taught in Chinese, so when she went to Sec School, she had problems in catching up these 2 subjects as they had changed to English syllabus. :scared-1:Maybe her Pr School was special, I can't remember I learned my History and Geography in Chinese leh.

Actually, I also think of that, enjoy when you still can walk. The best is work and enjoy at the same time. :47: IMHO, if a person don't work, his/her mind tends to turn "rusty", maybe when you get older and have enough saving for your retirement, find a less stressful things or job to do to occupy your time or go for holidays with your spouse and children to enjoy the harmony of the family. For my case, I don't think I have the chance to retire early lor, already pass 50 and just committed a ppty and have to work hard to pay for the instalments:banghead: . Good luck to you, keep up to your goal.:cheers3:wah your colleague as old as the country! Yup... though we're deviating from the thread, I'd like to reiterate your point about spending quality time with your family but sometimes, when you kids are older, like in JC or Uni, they do not enjoy going out with parents that much anymore and the heavy school loads and CCA committment, etc are definitely not helping... want to take them on holiday trips also must plan to fit their schedule! :scared-2:

irisng
03-04-12, 08:27
wah your colleague as old as the country! Yup... though we're deviating from the thread, I'd like to reiterate your point about spending quality time with your family but sometimes, when you kids are older, like in JC or Uni, they do not enjoy going out with parents that much anymore and the heavy school loads and CCA committment, etc are definitely not helping... want to take them on holiday trips also must plan to fit their schedule! :scared-2:

Agree, but I like to bring my children along (though they are already 20+ now) when going for long holiday trips. When both your kids enter into different levels of education, their holidays also different, that will be the most difficult time to plan. :spliff:

ysyap
03-04-12, 09:29
Agree, but I like to bring my children along (though they are already 20+ now) when going for long holiday trips. When both your kids enter into different levels of education, their holidays also different, that will be the most difficult time to plan. :spliff:Once they settle down and have family of their own, it'll be another exciting phase. Holiday with your kids will be tagged not just by in laws but even grandchildren... wow! I only dare to go Malaysia with my parents and my kids... self drive up. Haven't tried anything beyond that! :)

irisng
03-04-12, 13:02
Once they settle down and have family of their own, it'll be another exciting phase. Holiday with your kids will be tagged not just by in laws but even grandchildren... wow! I only dare to go Malaysia with my parents and my kids... self drive up. Haven't tried anything beyond that! :)

Yup, that will be another exciting phase when children have their own family, whether good or bad, nobody knows.

We had brought along my parents-in-law to overseas for holidays on few occasions when they were able to walk. Now my mother-in-law has legs problem, cannot walk and sit too long, it will be torturing for her to go with us and sit long hours flight, other than Malaysia. So I must enjoy my holidays before it is too late.:2cents:

ysyap
03-04-12, 13:33
Yup, that will be another exciting phase when children have their own family, whether good or bad, nobody knows.

We had brought along my parents-in-law to overseas for holidays on few occasions when they were able to walk. Now my mother-in-law has legs problem, cannot walk and sit too long, it will be torturing for her to go with us and sit long hours flight, other than Malaysia. So I must enjoy my holidays before it is too late.:2cents:Always exercise lor... my grandfather at 84 was still cycling so he was kept fit! :cheers5:Now he has difficulty not because of weak knees but other body functions are failing!

irisng
06-04-12, 10:43
Always exercise lor... my grandfather at 84 was still cycling so he was kept fit! :cheers5:Now he has difficulty not because of weak knees but other body functions are failing!

I think we are out of topic already but should be okay lah, this is also part of our Singaporeans daily life lor, hehe.:)

IMHO, chances are women seems to get more knees problem than men.

Wow, your grandfather is already 84, my mother-in-law is only 74. She has not been to workforce since she was young. When she was just 10+, she had to look after her brothers & sisters and did all the housework because her adopted parents were busy working. When she married, she had to look after all her 9 children and her husband was the only bread-winner as an odd-job worker, life was tough during that time but she has no complain, in fact she enjoys it, she said she is illiterate, so the only thing she can help is to look after the family. It is lucky that her children are filial. :cool: Even now at her age, she never stops doing the housework chores. We went to visit her every Saturday and she will cook lots of food for us. :ashamed1:

My friend once told me, when your grown-up children want you to accompany them for an overseas holiday, it is better to go with them, if not when they have their own family, you will hardly have a chance. :2cents: