A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

[cartman]

i was tempted to go view the orchard scotts unit but was not motivated when i learnt its 99 years and the maintenance fee is >$1000 per month although it has 387 units, more than the average cairnhill condos. pity because the transacted price was around my budget.

anyone knows how good the concierge service is to justify the 1000+ per month? some condos in neighbouring cairnhill area were only ~$600 per month

[stalingrad]

According to wiki, the largest city in Canada is Toronto. It has an area of 630 sq.km and a population of 2.6 million. According to wiki, Singapore has an area of 718 sq.km and a population of 5.5 million.

Only if you look at Toronto proper. If you look at greater Toronto, which includes its bedroom communities, it is 7,200 square km, 10 times the size of Singapore.

Well, size doesn't mean everything. The point I was making is that for a country as small as Singapore, it doesn't matter where you live or at least not such much as in other, bigger countries. We used to live in west coast, up until I resigned from NUS and moved back to Canada. We had access to everything, and orchard is only 15-20 minutes away. So, what is the point of living in CCR? Most Singaporeans don't see the point either. That is why CCR properties are crashing left and right even as we speak.

[cartman]

Only if you look at Toronto proper. If you look at greater Toronto, which includes its bedroom communities, it is 7,200 square km, 10 times the size of Singapore.

Well, size doesn't mean everything. The point I was making is that for a country as small as Singapore, it doesn't matter where you live or at least not such much as in other, bigger countries. We used to live in west coast, up until I resigned from NUS and moved back to Canada. We had access to everything, and orchard is only 15-20 minutes away. So, what is the point of living in CCR? Most Singaporeans don't see the point either. That is why CCR properties are crashing left and right even as we speak.

its not that people don't see the point...it still boils down to price and quantum.

someone travels via business or first class, you can also claim that most don't see the point...sour grapes?

[walkthetiger]

Only if you look at Toronto proper. If you look at greater Toronto, which includes its bedroom communities, it is 7,200 square km, 10 times the size of Singapore.

Well, size doesn't mean everything. The point I was making is that for a country as small as Singapore, it doesn't matter where you live or at least not such much as in other, bigger countries. We used to live in west coast, up until I resigned from NUS and moved back to Canada. We had access to everything, and orchard is only 15-20 minutes away. So, what is the point of living in CCR? Most Singaporeans don't see the point either. That is why CCR properties are crashing left and right even as we speak.


If you work in NUS, so you prefer west coast. It is where is you workplace matter more.

[bargain hunter]

if i'm not mistaken, this unit of 1,873 sq ft is a 4th floor unit which is a 3 bedroom loft. that means the 1,873 sq ft unit actually has a smaller floor plate on each floor and may include some air space. that may account for the lower psf which is the norm for this type of units in the current market (vs 2007).


One thing to note, Orchard Scotts was originally planned to be a hotel in the early 2000s. However due to the down turn, it was converted to residential. Having said that, I'm not sure if this ppty has r bloc potential ala Rochelle whose freehold title belongs to the clan next door. But 1,495 is still cheap which ever way you look at it.

[bargain hunter]

i'm not familiar with de-coupling though. need some expert to help.

but for purchase, i m very sure. stick to your price as long as seller is willing to sell to u at that price. then look for a banker/valuer who is willing to match your price. but of course, make sure u find that banker/valuer before making that offer officially. :kiwi-fruit:

it happens particularly for the less transacted projects. the last transaction was so long ago (possibly just before the 2013 tdsr or something) when prices have hardly fallen. some valuers work on the logic that your offer price is too far below the last transacted price which i totally disagree with.



Thanks. My banker gave me some BS like must transact at arms length, fair value so bank not willing to go below valuation by too much. Ok, gently gonna ask my banker again.

On the other hand, I have a place that is jointly owned with my wife that I wish to decouple. Value has gone up by 45% from purchase price. Here I tried to 'sell' my share to her at cost. Again, the banker said must transact at market value / arms length. While technically it's just left to right pocket, however I cannot comprehend the logic. Only reason I can think of is to avoid questions from IRAS on lower stamp fees due to lower transacted value. Any thoughts or advice? I have contacted 2 local banks on this and both gave the same reply that I need to 'sell' at the +45% or thereabouts.

[bargain hunter]

St Regis

Sold 29 JUN 2015 33 TANGLIN ROAD #XX-XX 3,897sq ft 2,200psf
Bought 29 MAY 2007 2,986psf

[bargain hunter]

Turquoise

Sold 8 JUL 2015 51 COVE DRIVE #XX-XX 2,185sq ft 1,327psf
Bought 29 OCT 2007 2,763psf

[onglai]

Turquoise

Sold 8 JUL 2015 51 COVE DRIVE #XX-XX 2,185sq ft 1,327psf
Bought 29 OCT 2007 2,763psf

<half price!!

i really dunno whether i shd hope for this to happen in ocr or not...

[teddybear]

Didn't the government want to make the OCR private properties affordable for HDB upgraders? If so, OCR private condo price gap in $PSF must definitely narrow to those of HDB resale flats...............


<half price!!

i really dunno whether i shd hope for this to happen in ocr or not...

[sherlock]

Turquoise

Sold 8 JUL 2015 51 COVE DRIVE #XX-XX 2,185sq ft 1,327psf
Bought 29 OCT 2007 2,763psf

Lose until pants drop

[sherlock]

Lose until pants drop

Including the shirt

[Kelonguni]

Didn't the government want to make the OCR private properties affordable for HDB upgraders? If so, OCR private condo price gap in $PSF must definitely narrow to those of HDB resale flats...............

CCR narrowing to OCR on average about 350psf as predicted. District 4 is CCR.

[Laguna]

Thanks. My banker gave me some BS like must transact at arms length, fair value so bank not willing to go below valuation by too much. Ok, gently gonna ask my banker again.

On the other hand, I have a place that is jointly owned with my wife that I wish to decouple. Value has gone up by 45% from purchase price. Here I tried to 'sell' my share to her at cost. Again, the banker said must transact at market value / arms length. While technically it's just left to right pocket, however I cannot comprehend the logic. Only reason I can think of is to avoid questions from IRAS on lower stamp fees due to lower transacted value. Any thoughts or advice? I have contacted 2 local banks on this and both gave the same reply that I need to 'sell' at the +45% or thereabouts.


Decoupling is as good as a sale.
You must have a valuation report to support the transacted price. The report costs $1,000.

On top, you wife needs to meet the TDSR to take over your portion of loan.

Some lawyers insisted to have actual cash transferred as well.

[Sandiwara]

Didn't the government want to make the OCR private properties affordable for HDB upgraders? If so, OCR private condo price gap in $PSF must definitely narrow to those of HDB resale flats...............

If the price gap between OCR condo and HDB is very close then the renting price will be closer between Condo and HDB. What will happen then?

[thomastansb]

Not all D4 are CCR. Only those on Sentosa Island are considered as CCR. Reflection/Carribean are still RCR.



CCR narrowing to OCR on average about 350psf as predicted. District 4 is CCR.

[teddybear]

Example, Senkang HDB flats $400 psf. Sengkang OCR condos now >$1000 psf, should drop to <$800 psf to acheive Government's aim of making OCR condos affordable for HDB upgraders............. Anyway OCR condo prices are still trending down... :hurt:


CCR narrowing to OCR on average about 350psf as predicted. District 4 is CCR.

[teddybear]

HDB flats are built for owners' own-stay, not to make profit from rental of whole unit.........
The Singapore government deemed OCR private condos too expensive for HDB upgraders, so must come down.... Rental is never a consideration for OCR private condos, presumably because OCR condos are also meant for own stay..............


If the price gap between OCR condo and HDB is very close then the renting price will be closer between Condo and HDB. What will happen then?

[Sandiwara]

HDB flats are built for owners' own-stay, not to make profit from rental of whole unit.........
The Singapore government deemed OCR private condos too expensive for HDB upgraders, so must come down.... Rental is never a consideration for OCR private condos, presumably because OCR condos are also meant for own stay..............

Wait until government program of "Decentralize Business Zone" is finish then you will see that OCR not only for own stay

[Kelonguni]

Example, Senkang HDB flats $400 psf. Sengkang OCR condos now >$1000 psf, should drop to <$800 psf to acheive Government's aim of making OCR condos affordable for HDB upgraders............. Anyway OCR condo prices are still trending down... :hurt:

Overall trending down for last few months yes. But OCR and RCR has stabilised with uptick.

http://www.srx.com.sg/singapore-property-news/9301/resale-prices-inch-up-in-june-volume-up-34-year-on-year

[teddybear]

Regardless, Government / MAS believes OCR private property prices are still seriously over-valued, so a long way to fall from >$1000 psf................



"Still premature" to lift property cooling measures: MAS
Marissa Lee

SINGAPORE - Homeowners hoping for an end to the Government's property cooling measures and a rebound in home valuations must keep waiting.

The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) said Tuesday that the measures - including a total debt servicing ratio (TDSR) framework implemented in June 2013 - are unlikely to go any time soon.

"Property prices have softened somewhat, but like I said last year, in the context of the price increase that occurred - 60 per cent over three years - the softening we've seen is really not all that much," MAS managing director Ravi Menon told a press conference on the release of the central bank's latest annual report.

"So it's still premature to consider removing any of the cooling measures that are in place," he added.




Wait until government program of "Decentralize Business Zone" is finish then you will see that OCR not only for own stay

[Kelonguni]

Regardless, Government / MAS believes OCR private property prices are still seriously over-valued, so a long way to fall from >$1000 psf................

I think they might never remove the cooling measure, maybe downtune marginally. It's a good alternative tax revenue and some are still willing to pay.

[stalingrad]

I think they might never remove the cooling measure, maybe downtune marginally. It's a good alternative tax revenue and some are still willing to pay.

The government is happy to see your post. It is sign that the measures should be and will be removed shortly.

[teddybear]

Probably have to wait for new launch OCR private condos prices to drop below $800 psf or until 2020 or thereafter then they may consider? :hurt:


I think they might never remove the cooling measure, maybe downtune marginally. It's a good alternative tax revenue and some are still willing to pay.

[Kelonguni]

Probably have to wait for new launch OCR private condos prices to drop below $800 psf or until 2020 or thereafter then they may consider? :hurt:

People come up with good reasons to tax you willingly, you really believe every word they say?

OK OCR 800 psf, CCR 1150psf. Gam?

[Werther]

Turquoise

Sold 8 JUL 2015 51 COVE DRIVE #XX-XX 2,185sq ft 1,327psf
Bought 29 OCT 2007 2,763psf

wow, jialat, really lelong...good for the buyer.

[teddybear]

So, you are telling us that MAS is lying to us when they made that statement that "private property prices are still too high" through the news media? :hurt:

Is it possible for CCR Orchard to drop to $1150 psf? If so, then OCR more likely will be left at a price of less <$500 psf!!!!!!!!! :chargrined:

Anyway, Come 2020 or thereafter, OCR private property prices may be much less than $800 psf.......... :suspicion:


People come up with good reasons to tax you willingly, you really believe every word they say?

OK OCR 800 psf, CCR 1150psf. Gam?

[Kelonguni]

So, you are telling us that MAS is lying to us when they made that statement that "private property prices are still too high" through the news media? :hurt:

Is it possible for CCR Orchard to drop to $1150 psf? If so, then OCR more likely will be left at a price of less <$500 psf!!!!!!!!! :chargrined:

Anyway, Come 2020 or thereafter, OCR private property prices may be much less than $800 psf.......... :suspicion:

Do I believe every word you say? Do you believe every word I say?

You expect MAS to say the CMs will stay because it is good money for Govt coffers?

If OCR 500 psf, CCR 850 psf. Shiok?

[teddybear]

If OCR 500 psf, CCR 850 psf. Shiok?
Very Shiok indeed!

Anyway, OCR private property prices at <$800 psf is becoming more and more like reality given the ever falling prices reported every quarter by URA. The trend is a FACT now, and for almost 7 quarters already, more pain to come.................... :hurt:


Do I believe every word you say? Do you believe every word I say?

You expect MAS to say the CMs will stay because it is good money for Govt coffers?

If OCR 500 psf, CCR 850 psf. Shiok?

[Kelonguni]

Very Shiok indeed!

Anyway, OCR private property prices at <$800 psf is becoming more and more like reality given the ever falling prices reported every quarter by URA. The trend is a FACT now, and for almost 7 quarters already, more pain to come.................... :hurt:

No need trend, just ban loans. CCR goes straight to 500 PSF. OCR 300 PSF.

Then next round Govt changed.

Wait for this quarter final report ok? Be patient. It shows CCR and OCR still falling while RCR has stablised.

http://www.srx.com.sg/singapore-property-news/9301/resale-prices-inch-up-in-june-volume-up-34-year-on-year

[thomastansb]

Relax people. No point speculating. Everyone got its own agenda. If you don't hold property, you will want prices to go down. 7 quarters of decline, 500psf, 300psf etc. If you hold property, you will say Yishun selling 1600 psf, Tanah merah selling 1700 psf blah blah blah.

At the end of the day, you say, your balls shiok only. Nothing in reality changes. There are declines but there are 1700psf at suburban also. So no one is wrong. The only good thing about holding property is you are still collecting rental. The sad thing is if your yield is < 3%, then you hong gan.

[Kelonguni]

Well said!


Relax people. No point speculating. Everyone got its own agenda. If you don't hold property, you will want prices to go down. 7 quarters of decline, 500psf, 300psf etc. If you hold property, you will say Yishun selling 1600 psf, Tanah merah selling 1700 psf blah blah blah.

At the end of the day, you say, your balls shiok only. Nothing in reality changes. There are declines but there are 1700psf at suburban also. So no one is wrong. The only good thing about holding property is you are still collecting rental. The sad thing is if your yield is < 3%, then you hong gan.

[HP65]

i'm not familiar with de-coupling though. need some expert to help.

but for purchase, i m very sure. stick to your price as long as seller is willing to sell to u at that price. then look for a banker/valuer who is willing to match your price. but of course, make sure u find that banker/valuer before making that offer officially. :kiwi-fruit:

it happens particularly for the less transacted projects. the last transaction was so long ago (possibly just before the 2013 tdsr or something) when prices have hardly fallen. some valuers work on the logic that your offer price is too far below the last transacted price which i totally disagree with.

Thanks BH. I asked my lawyer a bit more and I think the issue here is she is a related party and it has to do with bankruptcy laws. It is to prevent a potential bankrupt person from transferring assets to related party at 0 cost and keeping it out of reach from Official Assignee.

[HP65]

Decoupling is as good as a sale.
You must have a valuation report to support the transacted price. The report costs $1,000.

On top, you wife needs to meet the TDSR to take over your portion of loan.

Some lawyers insisted to have actual cash transferred as well.

Thanks Laguna, understand all that. However it appears while its a sale, it's not at 'arms length'. What I was trying to do was to sell to her at below value (about 40% below current valuation @ May 2015). It's to prevent a potential bankrupt person from transferring and protecting his assets to a related party. TDSR etc is not an issue with her :-)

[august]

No need trend, just ban loans. CCR goes straight to 500 PSF. OCR 300 PSF.

Then next round Govt changed.

Wait for this quarter final report ok? Be patient. It shows CCR and OCR still falling while RCR has stablised.

http://www.srx.com.sg/singapore-property-news/9301/resale-prices-inch-up-in-june-volume-up-34-year-on-year

I won't rely on SRX's numbers. It is not an authority and has its own agenda.

[martialsin]

Their X-value also not recognised by SISV

[cartman]

The sad thing is if your yield is < 3%, then you hong gan.

many units the yield is below 3% lei

[thomastansb]

Then the owners hong gan la. Especially those on short lease and 80% loan.




many units the yield is below 3% lei

[bargain hunter]

saw something interesting at The Cosmopolitan. already 10 transactions so far in 2015. for the full year of the past 2 years, there were only 3 in 2014 and 8 in 2013.

in april, a lower floor (11 to 15th floor) 1679sq ft 4 bedder set the lowest psf in 3 years at 1757psf. for the 3 bedders a 1,399 sq ft (also 11 to 15th floor) unit, set the lowest psf in 3 years in jan at 1900psf.

in may, a (31 to 35th floor) 4 bedder transacted at 2,114psf. not too far from the 2,203psf 3 year high set in may 13 before the cooling measures.

in jul, 2 3 bedders transacted at 2,119psf (26 to 30th floor) and (31st to 35th floor) at 2,144psf. also not too far from the 3 year high of 2,190psf set in jan 2013.

[bargain hunter]

same thing for cairnhill residences

comparing 3 bedders transactions over 3 years:

2012 3 year high 2343psf. low was in aug 2014 2100psf. since then 2,173, 2,222 and 2,194psf. not much of a fall.

[HP65]

saw something interesting at The Cosmopolitan. already 10 transactions so far in 2015. for the full year of the past 2 years, there were only 3 in 2014 and 8 in 2013.

in april, a lower floor (11 to 15th floor) 1679sq ft 4 bedder set the lowest psf in 3 years at 1757psf. for the 3 bedders a 1,399 sq ft (also 11 to 15th floor) unit, set the lowest psf in 3 years in jan at 1900psf.

in may, a (31 to 35th floor) 4 bedder transacted at 2,114psf. not too far from the 2,203psf 3 year high set in may 13 before the cooling measures.

in jul, 2 3 bedders transacted at 2,119psf (26 to 30th floor) and (31st to 35th floor) at 2,144psf. also not too far from the 3 year high of 2,190psf set in jan 2013.

Why do you think I'm trying to decouple.....

[bargain hunter]

errm bro. why didn't u do it when decoupling was all the rage throughout late 2013 and 2014?! how long will it take?



Why do you think I'm trying to decouple.....

[HP65]

errm bro. why didn't u do it when decoupling was all the rage throughout late 2013 and 2014?! how long will it take?

Got SSD :-) must pay 50% of my share. Plus prices were still high then, nothing caught my eyes. Now it's soften a fair bit so I thought of entering the market again.

[newbie11]

Lower stamp duty now since valuation has came down

[HP65]

Lower stamp duty now since valuation has came down

SSD is expiring thus no penalty to decouple and valuation / price has come off a bit at the areas I'm looking at. So I think it's a good time to make a move.

[bargain hunter]

Rare transaction at Parkview Eclat 3,251 sq ft:

Sold 20 Jul 2015 2,523psf

Bought in the go go 2007 peak:

3 Jul 2007 3,518psf

loss well in excess of 3m.

[bargain hunter]

The Grange

sold 20 JUL 2015 3 GRANGE GARDEN #XX-XX 1,765sq ft 2,102psf
Bought 19 FEB 2008 2,175psf

tiny loss

[Mikey88]

After so long , BH u r back..��
Have been stalking this thread for ur presence .. Heehee..

[cartman]

yeah bargain hunter really provides updates on a lot of bargains. thanks for sharing all the info

[Werther]

This thread so quiet, guess bro bargain hunter left the scene or already bought some fire sale properties, no time to update.

Just saw one large unit at Sky eleven 2820 sq ft, sold for $3.88M, about 1376 psf... thats a good buy. wondering if this is a genuine sale.

But on further check, this unit was bought at $4.4M before, so dont know if it is like father sell to son, below cost.

Anyone knows?

[Mikey88]

Thanks Bro for bumping up this thread..
Guess the market not yet bottom out so Bro BH dun bother to update..��

[bargain hunter]

Orchard Resi

Sold 14 JAN 2016 238 ORCHARD BOULEVARD #XX-XX 2,852sq ft 3,225psf
Bought 12 MAY 2010 3,225psf

managed to sell back at same psf.

[bargain hunter]

Scotts Square

Sold 4 JAN 2016 8 SCOTTS ROAD #XX-XX 1,249sq ft 2,803psf
Bought 28 AUG 2007 3,766 psf

[bargain hunter]

Leonie Parc View

Sold 22 DEC 2015 22 LEONIE HILL ROAD #XX-XX 2,250sq ft 1,978psf
Bought 15 JUN 2007 2,938psf

[bargain hunter]

sorry, had been busy. :joyous:


Thanks Bro for bumping up this thread..
Guess the market not yet bottom out so Bro BH dun bother to update..��

[bargain hunter]

i believe sky eleven deal is real. helped a relative buy a unit recently from a seller who was eager to take a $850k loss. its not uncommon. the point is, if seller bought at 2007 hyped up high, chances are they know that the prices will probably never reach those levels again (or take donkey years). in the meantime they may also have a high debt burden. these pple r in fact more willing to sell. but once their unit gets tenanted out again, they may sit on it again and wait.


This thread so quiet, guess bro bargain hunter left the scene or already bought some fire sale properties, no time to update.

Just saw one large unit at Sky eleven 2820 sq ft, sold for $3.88M, about 1376 psf... thats a good buy. wondering if this is a genuine sale.

But on further check, this unit was bought at $4.4M before, so dont know if it is like father sell to son, below cost.

Anyone knows?

[proud owner]

Scotts Square

Sold 4 JAN 2016 8 SCOTTS ROAD #XX-XX 1,249sq ft 2,803psf
Bought 28 AUG 2007 3,766 psf


FEO owns several units there for leasing.

Owner who bought FEO projects, always have to fight with FEO for tenants..

[agentg]

FEO owns several units there for leasing.

Owner who bought FEO projects, always have to fight with FEO for tenants..

Bro, Scotts Square is by Wheelock. FEO project is Orchard Scotts :)

[proud owner]

Bro, Scotts Square is by Wheelock. FEO project is Orchard Scotts :)

you are right

my bad...

[stalingrad]

Leonie Parc View

Sold 22 DEC 2015 22 LEONIE HILL ROAD #XX-XX 2,250sq ft 1,978psf
Bought 15 JUN 2007 2,938psf

Thanks for sharing the gospel. We missed you.

[teddybear]

The job of a over-leveraged speculator?
This is what we called buy HIGH sell LOW!
$1978 psf? Phew! The price is not much more than those OCR studio! :glee:
Wow! It is a price drop of about 33%!
Can we find any OCR property whose market price has dropped by 33% or more?
No wonder CCR property price has CRASHED!


Leonie Parc View

Sold 22 DEC 2015 22 LEONIE HILL ROAD #XX-XX 2,250sq ft 1,978psf
Bought 15 JUN 2007 2,938psf

[Ilikeu]

$2.2m loss.... phew! no sweat for the seller.

Address: 22,LEONIE HILL ROAD,#09-02ContractDate Amount UnitPrice AreaSqm PSF Sale Type Tenure
22-Dec-2015 $4,450,000 21292 209 1978 Resale Freehold
15-Jun-2007 $6,610,000 31627 209 2938 Sub Sale Freehold



Leonie Parc View

Sold 22 DEC 2015 22 LEONIE HILL ROAD #XX-XX 2,250sq ft 1,978psf
Bought 15 JUN 2007 2,938psf

[bargain hunter]

A very high floor 4 bedroom unit (2250 sq ft) at Reisdences @ Evelyn has transacted at 1600psf. look out for the caveat. seller bought at 1978psf in 2007. 19% loss but because of the size, the loss is $850k. assuming rental has covered all the other costs and more, maybe the loss is a little less.

anyway 1600psf is a new multi year low for this project.

[bargain hunter]

Turquoise remains the ultimate winner though:

Sold 7 JAN 2016 55 COVE DRIVE #XX-XX 2,153sq ft 1,400psf
Bought 30 NOV 2007 2,623psf

-46.6%.

[teddybear]

Wow!
Sentosa condos as cheap as OCR condos!


Turquoise remains the ultimate winner though:

Sold 7 JAN 2016 55 COVE DRIVE #XX-XX 2,153sq ft 1,400psf
Bought 30 NOV 2007 2,623psf

-46.6%.

[Ilikeu]

the seller made a cool $800k in 2 months....

Address: 51,COVE DRIVE,#05-08
ContractDate Amount UnitPrice AreaSqm PSF Sale Type Tenure
3-Sep-2015 $3,700,000 18227 203 1693 Resale 99 Yrs From 12/03/2007
8-Jul-2015 $2,900,000 14286 203 1327 Resale 99 Yrs From 12/03/2007
29-Oct-2007 $6,038,490 29746 203 2763 New Sale 99 Yrs From 12/03/2007

[bargain hunter]

this one doesn't make sense right? make 800k and pay 16% SSD? government makes 19%-$5,400. agent makes 1 to 2%, flipper makes at most $84k? in this kind of market, i think its very unlikely to be a real deal.


the seller made a cool $800k in 2 months....

Address: 51,COVE DRIVE,#05-08


ContractDate Amount UnitPrice AreaSqm PSF Sale Type Tenure
3-Sep-2015 $3,700,000 18227 203 1693 Resale 99 Yrs From 12/03/2007
8-Jul-2015 $2,900,000 14286 203 1327 Resale 99 Yrs From 12/03/2007
29-Oct-2007 $6,038,490 29746 203 2763 New Sale 99 Yrs From 12/03/2007

[bargain hunter]

btw, there's yet another unit at turquoise for bank auction sale. 4 bedder 2777 sq ft i think. this one is likely to fetch close to the above 3 bedder's price. makes the 3 bedder caveat above seem very unlikely.

[bargain hunter]

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/19127167/for-sale-turquoise

even another one not a bank sale also asking at 3.9m

[teddybear]

Genuine sale or not?
If my agent advertise like that "fire sales" "Must sell!!! Very Serious Seller!!!!!" blah blah blah, I will fire him/her...
This agent basically killed the seller's bargaining power to negotiate for a better price (if what has been advertised is true)............... :chargrined:


http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/19127167/for-sale-turquoise

even another one not a bank sale also asking at 3.9m

[bargain hunter]

likely genuine. u have to think from the seller's point of view. already very desperate. already lose so much so what is a few hundred k more. as long as around current market value will let go type. we have seen quite a few units at Turquoise at this price range already and at least another one to go for bank auction. prices are around this level.

the bank auction is by knight frank, #04-09 2,777 sq ft.


Genuine sale or not?
If my agent advertise like that "fire sales" "Must sell!!! Very Serious Seller!!!!!" blah blah blah, I will fire him/her...
This agent basically killed the seller's bargaining power to negotiate for a better price (if what has been advertised is true)............... :chargrined:

[stalingrad]

Genuine sale or not?
If my agent advertise like that "fire sales" "Must sell!!! Very Serious Seller!!!!!" blah blah blah, I will fire him/her...
This agent basically killed the seller's bargaining power to negotiate for a better price (if what has been advertised is true)............... :chargrined:


Understandable. Sea view in Singapore is actually rusty tanker view. What is the point of living on the island if one is not retired and has to go to work with a lunch box on a daily basis? Even if one is retired, it is not that appealing to be be cut off from most amenities.

[teddybear]

I don't have favour for sea view........
Things rust too fast and amenities spoil easily with the salty winds and air.......
Have to agree there is gantry there that cut off from the rest of the mainland Singapore and it is very inconvenient, no matter how many road lanes they build into Sentosa, .......

I already warned years ago about the hype about Sentosa and beware!
Don't be naive to believe that all CCR areas are equal!
Sentosa is a late-inclusion into "CCR" category and want you to make believe that it is like "CCR"..... The price now shows that it is no better than OCR...... :wink-new:


Understandable. Sea view in Singapore is actually rusty tanker view. What is the point of living on the island if one is not retired and has to go to work with a lunch box on a daily basis? Even if one is retired, it is not that appealing to be be cut off from most amenities.

[bargain hunter]

we once had a forumer called property owner who moved out of sentosa because of the lack of amenities.

it is public info that Dr Finan Tan and Kong Hee own penthouses at oceanfront though.

[Ilikeu]

maybe the flipper is an agent himself.....




this one doesn't make sense right? make 800k and pay 16% SSD? government makes 19%-$5,400. agent makes 1 to 2%, flipper makes at most $84k? in this kind of market, i think its very unlikely to be a real deal.

[Ilikeu]

Came across this: Westcove Condominium... it was sold for only $94 psf in 1998?!

Address: 16,WEST COAST CRESCENT,#03-01
ContractDate Amount UnitPrice AreaSqm PSF Sale Type Tenure
1-Dec-1998 $107,000 1009 106 94 New Sale 99 Yrs Fr 1/3/1995
22-Mar-1996 $708,381 6683 106 621 New Sale 99 Yrs Fr 1/3/1995

[blackjack21trader]

Came across this: Westcove Condominium... it was sold for only $94 psf in 1998?!

Address: 16,WEST COAST CRESCENT,#03-01
ContractDate Amount UnitPrice AreaSqm PSF Sale Type Tenure
1-Dec-1998 $107,000 1009 106 94 New Sale 99 Yrs Fr 1/3/1995
22-Mar-1996 $708,381 6683 106 621 New Sale 99 Yrs Fr 1/3/1995

really ! How can that be ???

[teddybear]

Typo?
More like $940 instead of $94 psf?


Came across this: Westcove Condominium... it was sold for only $94 psf in 1998?!

Address: 16,WEST COAST CRESCENT,#03-01
ContractDate Amount UnitPrice AreaSqm PSF Sale Type Tenure
1-Dec-1998 $107,000 1009 106 94 New Sale 99 Yrs Fr 1/3/1995
22-Mar-1996 $708,381 6683 106 621 New Sale 99 Yrs Fr 1/3/1995

[bargain hunter]

Orange Grove Resi

Sold 20 JAN 2016 31 ORANGE GROVE ROAD #XX-XX 2,422sq ft 1,652psf
Bought 14 FEB 2007 2,103psf

previously listed as a mortgagee sale. not sure if sold at auction or subsequent private treaty.

[bargain hunter]

stalin's favourite Duchess Residences

Sold 7 JAN 2016 102 DUCHESS AVENUE #XX-XX 1,464sq ft 1,701psf
Bought 1 AUG 2007 2,200psf

[bargain hunter]

8 Napier

Sold 6 JAN 2016 8 NAPIER ROAD #XX-XX 2,013sq ft 3,200psf
Bought 3 DEC 2007 3,630psf

[bargain hunter]

as promised, residences @ evelyn

Sold 19 JAN 2016 15 EVELYN ROAD #XX-XX 2,250sq ft 1,600psf
Bought 18 JUL 2007 1,978psf

[Werther]

So scary.. Prices are falling now.

But others in sommerville aka farrier drive still commanding strong price, maybe near mrt. So if development near mrt are still safe for now. What's yr take, bro BH?

[bargain hunter]

actually, prices are not falling. these losses were mostly incurred because people had bought at irrational prices during the 2007 CCR euphoria. where psf was the only thing that mattered and nobody bothered about the quantum.

current prices i feel has not fallen much since 2014. there are pockets of cheap sales here and there but most of the fall has already happened. so to me, its more like has fallen. it may still be falling but it all depends on the project.


So scary.. Prices are falling now.

But others in sommerville aka farrier drive still commanding strong price, maybe near mrt. So if development near mrt are still safe for now. What's yr take, bro BH?

[bargain hunter]

take the e.g. of the duchess residences unit: 1701psf. for 2015, the range was 1634 to 1811psf. so its about there.

[bargain hunter]

or e.g. waterfall gardens: for the 2196 sq ft unit. mar to jul 2015 1512 to 1548psf. suddenly in dec, there's a 1631psf transaction. which is a 3 year high actually. including the 1830 sq ft units, range over the past 3 years was 1450psf to 1655psf. only 12.4% even without considering the attributes of each unique unit.

[bargain hunter]

d'leedon: one off offer in jan 2013 at 12xxpsf moved a lot of units. since then only high floor units left. 2015 transactions excluding small units were at to 1453 to 1888psf. where got drop?

[bargain hunter]

Robin Residences: launched in july 2014.

psf range in 2014 was 2206psf to 2450psf
psf range in from jan 2015 to jan 2016 is 2282psf to 2518psf

prices are UP!

[stalingrad]

stalin's favourite Duchess Residences

Sold 7 JAN 2016 102 DUCHESS AVENUE #XX-XX 1,464sq ft 1,701psf
Bought 1 AUG 2007 2,200psf

You made my day. :welcoming:

[Werther]

Robin Residences: launched in july 2014.

psf range in 2014 was 2206psf to 2450psf
psf range in from jan 2015 to jan 2016 is 2282psf to 2518psf

prices are UP!

Not sure if this is a true transacted price but could be some cash back ... I heard recent sale in bishop gate cash back close to $1M.

[proud owner]

Not sure if this is a true transacted price but could be some cash back ... I heard recent sale in bishop gate cash back close to $1M.


Which project at Bishopgate ?

[propertycarrots]

Can consider Cairnhill Nine beside Paragon at $2300 psf - http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/24613-CairnHill-Nine-99LH-Orchard-Road-(Capitaland)-starting-1-35mil?p=514385#post514385

1.35mil for a 592 sqft unit

[bargain hunter]

what are the sizes for the 2, 3 and 4 bedders?


Can consider Cairnhill Nine beside Paragon at $2300 psf - http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/24613-CairnHill-Nine-99LH-Orchard-Road-(Capitaland)-starting-1-35mil?p=514385#post514385

1.35mil for a 592 sqft unit

[bargain hunter]

Not sure if this is a true transacted price but could be some cash back ... I heard recent sale in bishop gate cash back close to $1M.

the units at Robin Residences are not big and actually very popular too so there is no cash back. project to be completed soon with stevens mrt pretty close by, the project should at the very least be rentable. i think the quantum is still "affordable" to many so unlikely there is cash back. however, for the CNY month of Feb, agents are touting up to $38k off price upfront. lol.

[bargain hunter]

there's only this bishopgate residences there i think? small project with huge units and largely unsold.


Which project at Bishopgate ?

[proud owner]

there's only this bishopgate residences there i think? small project with huge units and largely unsold.


very 'empty' condo.

You are right, due to its huge size, the quantum is huge too.

I understand the developer is targeting foreign buyers ... they know that local with that amt of money would rather buy landed..

[bargain hunter]

joining the league of those unsold units at ardmore. wing tai pledged NOT to cut those prices at their agm wor. they would rather pay the penalty.


very 'empty' condo.

You are right, due to its huge size, the quantum is huge too.

I understand the developer is targeting foreign buyers ... they know that local with that amt of money would rather buy landed..

[propertycarrots]

Crazy transactions this CNY

https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/t31.0-8/12697361_894946970623523_2775273313611700_o.png

[bargain hunter]

wheelock continues to be able to sell scotts square at 3312psf

[bargain hunter]

The Laurels
Sold 19 JAN 2016 38 CAIRNHILL ROAD #XX-XX 1,001sq ft 2,298psf
Bought 19 APR 2010 2,968psf

[bargain hunter]

amazing caveats in D10 for feb:

LEEDON RESIDENCE LEEDON HEIGHTS Condominium 10 CCR Freehold New Sale 1 $4,339,368 - 2,131sq ft Strata 01 to 05 2,036psf Feb-16

GOODWOOD GRAND BALMORAL ROAD Apartment 10 CCR Freehold New Sale 1 2,535,070 - 1,044 Strata 06 to 10 2,428 Feb-16

GOODWOOD GRAND BALMORAL ROAD Apartment 10 CCR Freehold New Sale 1 1,892,200 - 775 Strata 06 to 10 2,442 Feb-16

GOODWOOD GRAND BALMORAL ROAD Apartment 10 CCR Freehold New Sale 1 1,930,030 - 775 Strata 06 to 10 2,490 Feb-16

GOODWOOD GRAND BALMORAL ROAD Apartment 10 CCR Freehold New Sale 1 2,587,800 - 1,044 Strata 06 to 10 2,478 Feb-16

BISHOPSGATE RESIDENCES BISHOPSGATE Condominium 10 CCR Freehold Resale 1 10,464,697 - 3,143 Strata 01 to 05 3,329 Feb-16

Leedon Resi at >2000psf, Goodwood Grand at 24xxpsf and the Bishopgate transaction mentioned. even if there's a 1m cash back, its still a cool 3011psf. i thought there was a lot of talk about stock markets crashing affecting buying sentiment in CCR?

[bargain hunter]

St Martin Residence

Sold 28 JAN 2016 8 ST. MARTIN'S DRIVE #XX-XX 2,034sq ft 1,779psf
Bought 21 NOV 2007 2,335psf

again, the best bargains are found in the urgent sellers who overpaid.

just above this caveat, i saw another 2 big purchases:

THE LADYHILL LADY HILL ROAD Condominium 10 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $7,000,000 - 3,843 Strata 01 to 05 1,822 Jan-16

seller bought low in 2005 and made 2.2m

D'LEEDON LEEDON HEIGHTS Condominium 10 CCR 99 yrs lease commencing from 2010 Resale 1 5,300,000 - 6,534 Strata 01 to 05 811 Jan-16

a 99 year leasehold garden house for 5.3m?! (this is not even a semi-d), its just a triplex on the ground floor of one of the blocks. climbing the steep staircase alone is a chore.

[bargain hunter]

Volari

Sold 27 JAN 2016 12 BALMORAL ROAD #XX-XX 1,324sq ft 2,190psf
Bought 30 JUL 2009 2,203psf

small loss

[bargain hunter]

The Sail

Sold 2 FEB 2016 6 MARINA BOULEVARD #XX-XX 1,647sq ft 1,943psf
Bought 11 JUL 2007 2,400psf

again, a seller who bought at the peak in 2007 and is eager to sell at a loss and at a bargain to the buyer.

[bargain hunter]

Goodwood grand was launched in dec 2013 and psf ranged from 2276 to 2449psf for the standard units.
2014 was 2366 to 2544psf
only 1 transaction in 2015 at a record 2563psf
4 caveats lodged in feb 2016 at 2428 to 2490psf

[bargain hunter]

Marina Bay Resi

Sold 25 JAN 2016 18 MARINA BOULEVARD #XX-XX 980sq ft 2,807 psf
Bought 15 MAR 2007 2,881psf

lucky to get away with small loss

[bargain hunter]

Marina Bay Suites

Sold 1 JAN 2016 3 CENTRAL BOULEVARD #XX-XX 2,680sq ft 1,977psf
Bought 27 MAY 2010 2,654psf

was mentioned in the edge about half a year ago about the malaysian who wanted to sell. it said he would have made a loss but offset by forex gain.

[starrynight]

2 Feb 2016 6 Marina Boulevard #23-18 1,647 1,943 3,200,000
11 Jul 2007 6 Marina Boulevard #23-18 1,647 2,400 3,952,800
5 Dec 2006 6 Marina Boulevard #23-18 1,647 1,500 2,470,500
7 Oct 2005 6 Marina Boulevard #23-18 1,647 1,385 2,281,290


The Sail

Sold 2 FEB 2016 6 MARINA BOULEVARD #XX-XX 1,647sq ft 1,943psf
Bought 11 JUL 2007 2,400psf

again, a seller who bought at the peak in 2007 and is eager to sell at a loss and at a bargain to the buyer.

[proud owner]

Marina Bay Suites

Sold 1 JAN 2016 3 CENTRAL BOULEVARD #XX-XX 2,680sq ft 1,977psf
Bought 27 MAY 2010 2,654psf

was mentioned in the edge about half a year ago about the malaysian who wanted to sell. it said he would have made a loss but offset by forex gain.

All these FOREX gain BS ...

if it was a Msian owner, what FX gain ? in 2010 ?

Ringgit didnt plunge until 2014/15 ...

save face excuses...

[thomastansb]

Especially those big big units in prime districts. Those are the ones that suffer jia lat jia lat. But at that kind of quantum, it is beyond the reach of 99% of the population anyway. So no matter how cheap it is, it is still in the region of millions. Not many people can take out 500k cash that easily.





actually, prices are not falling. these losses were mostly incurred because people had bought at irrational prices during the 2007 CCR euphoria. where psf was the only thing that mattered and nobody bothered about the quantum.

current prices i feel has not fallen much since 2014. there are pockets of cheap sales here and there but most of the fall has already happened. so to me, its more like has fallen. it may still be falling but it all depends on the project.

[teddybear]

What does this mean? It means property prices crash in prime CCR districts only benefit the rich who can afford?

Time for the government/MND to fine-tune their property cooling measures to also crash OCR property prices so that the ordinary people will benefit and be able to buy CHEAP CHEAP?

Otherwise the so-called property prices already cooled (just because CCR prices crashed and dragged overall PPI lower is plain useless to ordinary people and only benefits the rich). :boxing:


Especially those big big units in prime districts. Those are the ones that suffer jia lat jia lat. But at that kind of quantum, it is beyond the reach of 99% of the population anyway. So no matter how cheap it is, it is still in the region of millions. Not many people can take out 500k cash that easily.

[bargain hunter]

ok, backed by examples:

TWENTYONE ANGULLIA PARK

4 FEB 2016 21 ANGULLIA PARK #XX-XX RESALE 3,348sq ft STRATA 3,600psf $12,052,800 PRIVATE

THE RITZ-CARLTON RESIDENCES SINGAPORE CAIRNHILL

5 FEB 2016 65 CAIRNHILL ROAD #XX-XX RESALE 3,057sq ft STRATA 3,467psf $10,600,000 PRIVATE
5 FEB 2016 65 CAIRNHILL ROAD #XX-XX RESALE 3,057sq ft STRATA 3,795psf $11,600,000 PRIVATE

benefit the rich who can afford lor.


What does this mean? It means property prices crash in prime CCR districts only benefit the rich who can afford?

Time for the government/MND to fine-tune their property cooling measures to also crash OCR property prices so that the ordinary people will benefit and be able to buy CHEAP CHEAP?

Otherwise the so-called property prices already cooled (just because CCR prices crashed and dragged overall PPI lower is plain useless to ordinary people and only benefits the rich). :boxing:

[thomastansb]

Why would the Government bother about CCR? Crash crash lor. Who cares.

Government should care only about HDB. Maybe suburban condo a bit but the focus should be on HDB. 80% of the people stay in HDB and the remaining mostly OCR follow by RCR. So I think they are doing a good job. The top 1%, who cares.





What does this mean? It means property prices crash in prime CCR districts only benefit the rich who can afford?

Time for the government/MND to fine-tune their property cooling measures to also crash OCR property prices so that the ordinary people will benefit and be able to buy CHEAP CHEAP?

Otherwise the so-called property prices already cooled (just because CCR prices crashed and dragged overall PPI lower is plain useless to ordinary people and only benefits the rich). :boxing:

[Kelonguni]

Fully agree with you!

Three thumbs up.


Why would the Government bother about CCR? Crash crash lor. Who cares.

Government should care only about HDB. Maybe suburban condo a bit but the focus should be on HDB. 80% of the people stay in HDB and the remaining mostly OCR follow by RCR. So I think they are doing a good job. The top 1%, who cares.

[teddybear]

So, you mean the government is doing a good job by keeping OCR private property prices at historical high prices despite their so-called property cooling measures that is supposed to cool it?

And you are contradicting yourself by saying that the government's "focus should be on HDB. 80% of the people stay in HDB"?
You mean the government's focus is to keep OCR private property prices at historical high?
Oh, there you goes the dream of the >80% HDB owners who dream of upgrading to OCR private properties (after all the hoo-ha about property cooling measures which give them false hope)............. :hopelessness:


Why would the Government bother about CCR? Crash crash lor. Who cares.

Government should care only about HDB. Maybe suburban condo a bit but the focus should be on HDB. 80% of the people stay in HDB and the remaining mostly OCR follow by RCR. So I think they are doing a good job. The top 1%, who cares.

[august]

Why would the Government bother about CCR? Crash crash lor. Who cares.

Government should care only about HDB. Maybe suburban condo a bit but the focus should be on HDB. 80% of the people stay in HDB and the remaining mostly OCR follow by RCR. So I think they are doing a good job. The top 1%, who cares.

Depends what is your definition of 'care'.
Gov "cares" so much about HDB that prices will not drop and new flats do not get cheaper.
Or is the gov "caring" too much that all the caring efforts are targeted on private property.
;)

[thomastansb]

I don't really care about OCR. HDB is first priority. And I thought prices peaked 2013/14? What you talking? Now still historical high meh? Get your facts right first. LOL. Machiam talking like TOC, TRS.

Economically speaking, shouldn't property prices or asset prices hit historical high? Just a matter of time right? I mean, if you know economy, inflation etc. If not, then no point continuing.





So, you mean the government is doing a good job by keeping OCR private property prices at historical high prices despite their so-called property cooling measures that is supposed to cool it?

And you are contradicting yourself by saying that the government's "focus should be on HDB. 80% of the people stay in HDB"?
You mean the government's focus is to keep OCR private property prices at historical high?
Oh, there you goes the dream of the >80% HDB owners who dream of upgrading to OCR private properties (after all the hoo-ha about property cooling measures which give them false hope)............. :hopelessness:

[thomastansb]

I thought they whack HDB as well? I don't really know because I don't own or intend to buy HDB. Like lower MSR, lower max years, 5 years MOP for resale etc.

Cheap is subjective. 100k after grants for 3 bedroom, I think it is dirt cheap.



Depends what is your definition of 'care'.
Gov "cares" so much about HDB that prices will not drop and new flats do not get cheaper.
Or is the gov "caring" too much that all the caring efforts are targeted on private property.
;)

[august]

I don't really care about OCR. HDB is first priority. And I thought prices peaked 2013/14? What you talking? Now still historical high meh? Get your facts right first. LOL. Machiam talking like TOC, TRS.

Economically speaking, shouldn't property prices or asset prices hit historical high? Just a matter of time right? I mean, if you know economy, inflation etc. If not, then no point continuing.

Are Hdb Bto prices coming down or continuing to climb? You do not seem to know the facts. Lol

[teddybear]

Economically speaking property prices should hit historical high? Only you said so right?
At least that is NOT the belief of MND / MAS / Singapore government otherwise there won't be so many property cooling measures! ho ho ho!
The government is telling us that you talk cock lah!
And what is wrong with TOC and TRS? Thought they exposed many "famous" issues?? You can't stand these is it?

HDB price peaked in 2013/2014? Really??
Ho ho ho, you talk cock again (as exposed by others here like August)!


I don't really care about OCR. HDB is first priority. And I thought prices peaked 2013/14? What you talking? Now still historical high meh? Get your facts right first. LOL. Machiam talking like TOC, TRS.

Economically speaking, shouldn't property prices or asset prices hit historical high? Just a matter of time right? I mean, if you know economy, inflation etc. If not, then no point continuing.

[thomastansb]

Is there an index for BTO? I only know 100k can buy 3 bedroom HDB. Sounds cheap enough.



Are Hdb Bto prices coming down or continuing to climb? You do not seem to know the facts. Lol

[thomastansb]

Maybe you are looking at a different index. lol.

You should really do some research instead of sounding like an ignorant empty vessel here. I don't think the OCR and HDB index that hard to find.

** hint: Google




Economically speaking property prices should hit historical high? Only you said so right?
At least that is NOT the belief of MND / MAS / Singapore government otherwise there won't be so many property cooling measures! ho ho ho!
The government is telling us that you talk cock lah!
And what is wrong with TOC and TRS? Thought they exposed many "famous" issues?? You can't stand these is it?

HDB price peaked in 2013/2014? Really??
Ho ho ho, you talk cock again (as exposed by others here like August)!

[Ilikeu]

He doesn't even know the difference between MSR and TDSR in another thread, or maybe he should go back and learn elementary mathematics on fractions and percentages to do the calculations which one allows more debt...




Maybe you are looking at a different index. lol.

You should really do some research instead of sounding like an ignorant empty vessel here. I don't think the OCR and HDB index that hard to find.

** hint: Google

[teddybear]

Can show us the HDB BTO price index?


Maybe you are looking at a different index. lol.

You should really do some research instead of sounding like an ignorant empty vessel here. I don't think the OCR and HDB index that hard to find.

** hint: Google

[thomastansb]

What is HDB BTO index? Got such a thing meh?

I only know HDB resale index.



Can show us the HDB BTO price index?

[thomastansb]

I am not surprised. lol.





He doesn't even know the difference between MSR and TDSR in another thread, or maybe he should go back and learn elementary mathematics on fractions and percentages to do the calculations which one allows more debt...

[teddybear]

No HDB BTO price index?
Then how do YOU know how much new HDB BTO flats' prices have moved over the years?
And you keep insisting that HDB flats prices, which we will always take to include HDB BTO flats prices, have dropped significantly??? :hopelessness:



What is HDB BTO index? Got such a thing meh?

I only know HDB resale index.

[DC33_2008]

Luxury condos on sentosa has drop by 50%. Is there any takers at times of volatility ands uncertainty?

[thomastansb]

HDB resale index.




No HDB BTO price index?
Then how do YOU know how much new HDB BTO flats' prices have moved over the years?
And you keep insisting that HDB flats prices, which we will always take to include HDB BTO flats prices, have dropped significantly??? :hopelessness:

[bargain hunter]

Luxury condos on sentosa has drop by 50%. Is there any takers at times of volatility ands uncertainty?

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/24686-Luxury-home-price-slump-draws-interest-from-funds

seems like many r looking at it. I read on the edge that SIS (formerly IT, not the sugar SIS) is also setting up a fund to look at it. that person interviewed specifically pointed out that he is looking at most of CCR, including sentosa, marina bay, D9, 10 and 11. So it seems that funds are being set up to look at these big sized luxury ppty.

[stalingrad]

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/24686-Luxury-home-price-slump-draws-interest-from-funds

seems like many r looking at it. I read on the edge that SIS (formerly IT, not the sugar SIS) is also setting up a fund to look at it. that person interviewed specifically pointed out that he is looking at most of CCR, including sentosa, marina bay, D9, 10 and 11. So it seems that funds are being set up to look at these big sized luxury ppty.

These are brave souls. There are many reasons why Sentosa and CCR condos have dropped like a rock, such as irrational exuberance, greed, speculation, Chinese money, and homogenization of Singapore. On the last issue, Singapore used to have all high end shopping concentrated in the urban core. No longer. Many suburban malls are no worse than those in downtown. Who will shop at Orchard if you can shop at the same stores at your neighborhood malls without having to drive a long way?

[bargain hunter]

some of the losses which i didn't pick out but reported on the edge:

Jardin

Sold 27 Jan 16 1787sq ft 2.36m
Bought 21 Dec 07 3.288m

Grange Resi

Sold 26 Jan 16 2583sq ft 6.1m
Bought 23 Sep 11 6.9m

Cairnhill Crest

Sold 22 Jan 16 1733sq ft 3.18m
Bought 21 Nov 07 3.95m

Scotts Square

Sold 25 Jan 16 614 sq ft 2.032m
Bought 19 Oct 07 2.7m

all except 1 were bought during the hype of 2007.

[bargain hunter]

at the current prices, the irrational exuberance, greed and speculation is already gradually priced in/unwound as seen by those who bought at 2007 selling now at depressed prices. Chinese money is still present (they bought both the units at ritz carlton resi at ABOVE DEVELOPER'S ASKING PRICES). i can understand your point on the last issue of homgenization. however, to some pple, its never the same. they only want these prime properties for various reasons. i don't know all the reasons but here are some i can think of:

Freehold at that kind of quantum (this is not readily available outside of CCR even if u consider clusters of freehold land in OCR and RCR).

the prestige. even if the same shops can be found elsewhere, it is still unrelated to why the rich prefers to own/stay in CCR. besides, some shops at the very high end are not found elsewhere.




These are brave souls. There are many reasons why Sentosa and CCR condos have dropped like a rock, such as irrational exuberance, greed, speculation, Chinese money, and homogenization of Singapore. On the last issue, Singapore used to have all high end shopping concentrated in the urban core. No longer. Many suburban malls are no worse than those in downtown. Who will shop at Orchard if you can shop at the same stores at your neighborhood malls without having to drive a long way?

[bargain hunter]

far east has sold another 2 units of this project. big quantum is moving again it seems.

BOULEVARD VUE CUSCADEN WALK Condominium 10 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $15,896,900 - 4,478 sq ft Strata 21 to 25 3,550psf Feb-16
BOULEVARD VUE CUSCADEN WALK Condominium 10 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $15,225,200 - 4,478sq ft Strata 16 to 20 3,400 psf Feb-16

[bargain hunter]

Signature at lewis

Sold 1 FEB 2016 1 LEWIS ROAD #XX-XX 1,841sq ft 1,358psf
Bought 24 SEP 2009 1,370psf

[bargain hunter]

the edge reported that one unit sold to an indonesian man and another unit sold to his daughter.

more large quantum transactions spotted:

a 3rd unit at Boulevard Vue

BOULEVARD VUE CUSCADEN WALK Condominium 10 CCR Freehold Resale 1 14,687,840 - 4,478 Strata 11 to 15 3,280 Feb-16

and

a penthouse at urban resort
URBAN RESORT CONDOMINIUM CAIRNHILL ROAD Condominium 09 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $12,197,500 - 6,857sq t Strata 16 to 20 1,779psf Feb-16

far east has sold another 2 units of this project. big quantum is moving again it seems.

BOULEVARD VUE CUSCADEN WALK Condominium 10 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $15,896,900 - 4,478 sq ft Strata 21 to 25 3,550psf Feb-16
BOULEVARD VUE CUSCADEN WALK Condominium 10 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $15,225,200 - 4,478sq ft Strata 16 to 20 3,400 psf Feb-16

[stalingrad]

the edge reported that one unit sold to an indonesian man and another unit sold to his daughter.

more large quantum transactions spotted:

a 3rd unit at Boulevard Vue

BOULEVARD VUE CUSCADEN WALK Condominium 10 CCR Freehold Resale 1 14,687,840 - 4,478 Strata 11 to 15 3,280 Feb-16

and

a penthouse at urban resort
URBAN RESORT CONDOMINIUM CAIRNHILL ROAD Condominium 09 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $12,197,500 - 6,857sq t Strata 16 to 20 1,779psf Feb-16

I hope this is a case of hard-earned money and not a case ill gotten money and money laundering.

[bargain hunter]

oops, seems like this is the one that the edge said was indo and daughter. instead, it is danish and son.

Pandora co-founder and son buy 2 units at Boulevard Vue: Per Algot Enevoldsen is paying almost S$15.9 million or S$3,550 per square foot (psf) for his apartment while son Christian is buying a unit three floors below for close to S$15.23 million or S$3,400 psf.

[newbie11]

5.6m in stamp duty for foreigner. Amazing feo

[bargain hunter]

5.6m in stamp duty for foreigner. Amazing feo

looks like the pandora pple are very keen to park S$30m+ here. nevermind the 5.6m to government. :)

[bargain hunter]

watermark

Sold 22 FEB 2016 3 RODYK STREET #XX-XX 1,733sq ft 1,546psf
Bought 3 AUG 2010 1,580psf

[maisonjai]

watermark

我的妈...呀 !!

Bought in 2010 still under water. :grumpy:
Index closing into 2010 territory ??

[bargain hunter]

我的妈...呀 !!

Bought in 2010 still under water. :grumpy:
Index closing into 2010 territory ??

its a bit different for CCR. sellers have various reasons to sell. and $ flow be it the return of $ for the sale itself or the $ outflow for monthly payments could be one of the chief reasons for these individual sellers.

for the buy side, what i am very curious about is that this freehold 1733 sq ft 3+study took so long to sell at 2.68m. in contrast, 99 year leasehold 1572 sq ft 4 bedders at Principal Garden in district 3 seems so easy to move. 18 units sold from 2.454m to 2.56m. the watermark unit was advertised way before principal garden was launched.

why why why?

[teddybear]

Because CCR property price already crashed wah!
Can you find any OCR property that is transacted at 2010 price??? :hopelessness:



我的妈...呀 !!

Bought in 2010 still under water. :grumpy:
Index closing into 2010 territory ??

[Citizen]

its a bit different for CCR. sellers have various reasons to sell. and $ flow be it the return of $ for the sale itself or the $ outflow for monthly payments could be one of the chief reasons for these individual sellers.

for the buy side, what i am very curious about is that this freehold 1733 sq ft 3+study took so long to sell at 2.68m. in contrast, 99 year leasehold 1572 sq ft 4 bedders at Principal Garden in district 3 seems so easy to move. 18 units sold from 2.454m to 2.56m. the watermark unit was advertised way before principal garden was launched.

why why why?

Real and right reasons. It is easy to see the right reasons but not the real reasons

[HP65]

its a bit different for CCR. sellers have various reasons to sell. and $ flow be it the return of $ for the sale itself or the $ outflow for monthly payments could be one of the chief reasons for these individual sellers.

for the buy side, what i am very curious about is that this freehold 1733 sq ft 3+study took so long to sell at 2.68m. in contrast, 99 year leasehold 1572 sq ft 4 bedders at Principal Garden in district 3 seems so easy to move. 18 units sold from 2.454m to 2.56m. the watermark unit was advertised way before principal garden was launched.

why why why?

The reason for this is probably due to the noise and dust coming from the construction going on opposite Watermark now. I have seen a 4 bedder there couple of months ago and if it's that unit, I think there is a privacy issue as it's rather close to the end of the block..

[indomie]

Because CCR property price already crashed wah!
Can you find any OCR property that is transacted at 2010 price??? :hopelessness:
Its hard for me to see CCR as good investment. For a 2mil CCR property it cost 5k monthly mortgage repayment + 600 dollar strata fee+ 4000 dollar property tax. On its own it requires at least 6000 monthly cash outflow.

[teddybear]

It is also hard for me to understand why anybody would want to pay >$1000 psf for OCR private properties, mostly with only 99-years lease or even much less, when they are poor investment because they have little chance of capital appreciation (since the pay raise of general population that live in OCR will always be very limited)(remember, if general population's pay rise is too fast means high inflation which should not happened!),
and when they could get a HDB flat for <$400 psf or EC for $700+ psf or rent a HDB flat with 3 bedrooms in OCR for <$1800 per month....... :eagerness:


Its hard for me to see CCR as good investment. For a 2mil CCR property it cost 5k monthly mortgage repayment + 600 dollar strata fee+ 4000 dollar property tax. On its own it requires at least 6000 monthly cash outflow.

[Kelonguni]

I explained to you for 4 years already.

If your theory does not work, maybe it's time to adjust your thinking a little?


It is also hard for me to understand why anybody would want to pay >$1000 psf for OCR private properties, mostly with only 99-years lease or even much less, when they are poor investment because they have little chance of capital appreciation (since the pay raise of general population that live in OCR will always be very limited)(remember, if general population's pay rise is too fast means high inflation which should not happened!),
and when they could get a HDB flat for <$400 psf or EC for $700+ psf or rent a HDB flat with 3 bedrooms in OCR for <$1800 per month....... :eagerness:

[teddybear]

My theory has been working perfectly fine over the long term (since my properties are bought for long-term and not for speculation and flipping)..........

You wait for 30 years and you will know whether your 99-years leasehold OCR properties got long term holding value.............

But then again, I would expect that you would have flipped your 99-years leasehold properties to the next greater fool (so you are also not affected)........ :onthego:



I explained to you for 4 years already.

If your theory does not work, maybe it's time to adjust your thinking a little?


It is also hard for me to understand why anybody would want to pay >$1000 psf for OCR private properties, mostly with only 99-years lease or even much less, when they are poor investment because they have little chance of capital appreciation (since the pay raise of general population that live in OCR will always be very limited)(remember, if general population's pay rise is too fast means high inflation which should not happened!),
and when they could get a HDB flat for <$400 psf or EC for $700+ psf or rent a HDB flat with 3 bedrooms in OCR for <$1800 per month....... :eagerness:

[Kelonguni]

If TDSR remains I am sure 30 years later will still be the same.

Will explain to you again 30 years later. Mine is mixed FH and LH though I can confidence in them all.


My theory has been working perfectly fine over the long term (since my properties are bought for long-term and not for speculation and flipping)..........

You wait for 30 years and you will know whether your 99-years leasehold OCR properties got long term holding value.............

But then again, I would expect that you would have flipped your 99-years leasehold properties to the next greater fool (so you are also not affected)........ :onthego:

[teddybear]

Anyway, I would expect anybody holding 99-years Leasehold properties to say they have confidence in holding them.............
After all, if they don't say so and start telling people that 99-years leasehold properties will drop in value significantly after 20 years of lease, who will become their next greater fool to flip and take over they baby when it becomes a burden?
Understand anyway..........



If TDSR remains I am sure 30 years later will still be the same.

Will explain to you again 30 years later. Mine is mixed FH and LH though I can confidence in them all.

[stalingrad]

Anyway, I would expect anybody holding 99-years Leasehold properties to say they have confidence in holding them.............
After all, if they don't say so and start telling people that 99-years leasehold properties will drop in value significantly after 20 years of lease, who will become their next greater fool to flip and take over they baby when it becomes a burden?
Understand anyway..........

Teddy, don't get aggressive when stymied. I told you that CCR homes were going to drop like bird poop 8 years ago. And all I got from you was ridicule and insults. You have never changed even after you have been proven wrong about CCR properties. The secret to being successful in life is to be adaptable and willing to learn from those smarter than you. I hope you take that advice from me.

[Leeds]

Teddy, don't get aggressive when stymied. I told you that CCR homes were going to drop like bird poop 8 years ago. And all I got from you was ridicule and insults. You have never changed even after you have been proven wrong about CCR properties. The secret to being successful in life is to be adaptable and willing to learn from those smarter than you. I hope you take that advice from me.

Teddy has been consistent throughout the years in this forum. He probably misread the market in late 2011 and 2012 when I suggested investors holding multiples properties to offload some and took profits because prices would correct either through a black swam or through government's intervention. He was dead against me and even called me names. However, since 2013, Teddy has made U-turn in his calls. His assessment of the market is largely based on his experience and his working knowledge of the government. Teddy's ability to make U-turn call is respectable unlike many vested individuals who are here to "protect" their own interests. In this regard, Teddy is honest and sincere.

[pmet]

Teddy has been consistent throughout the years in this forum. He probably misread the market in late 2011 and 2012 when I suggested investors holding multiples properties to offload some and took profits because prices would correct either through a black swam or through government's intervention. He was dead against me and even called me names. However, since 2013, Teddy has made U-turn in his calls. His assessment of the market is largely based on his experience and his working knowledge of the government. Teddy's ability to make U-turn call is respectable unlike many vested individuals who are here to "protect" their own interests. In this regard, Teddy is honest and sincere.

Have I been consistent too to also deserve that little respect?

[Leeds]

Have I been consistent too to also deserve that little respect?

As long as you are polite and respectful to others in this forum, you would have already earned the respect even if your views differ greatly from others.

[Kelonguni]

Teddy has been consistent throughout the years in this forum. He probably misread the market in late 2011 and 2012 when I suggested investors holding multiples properties to offload some and took profits because prices would correct either through a black swam or through government's intervention. He was dead against me and even called me names. However, since 2013, Teddy has made U-turn in his calls. His assessment of the market is largely based on his experience and his working knowledge of the government. Teddy's ability to make U-turn call is respectable unlike many vested individuals who are here to "protect" their own interests. In this regard, Teddy is honest and sincere.

Actually it's based on theory knowledge combined with ground assessment. I don't see how participating in an open forum protects interests. I say what I think and feel and many too. What is posted here is unlikely to influence the market. Or do you think it will?

[Kelonguni]

OK I will also be consistent and tell you the same thing in 30 years.

Unlike ABSD, TDSR is a permanent feature. Unless income growth were as spectacular as they were in the last 20 years, we are unlikely to see a huge spike in high end property value (CCR) when combined with decentralisation efforts. But of course they have already dropped significantly and represents value for people who want to buy them for certain reasons.



Anyway, I would expect anybody holding 99-years Leasehold properties to say they have confidence in holding them.............
After all, if they don't say so and start telling people that 99-years leasehold properties will drop in value significantly after 20 years of lease, who will become their next greater fool to flip and take over they baby when it becomes a burden?
Understand anyway..........

[Kelonguni]

In this regard, Teddy is honest and sincere.

In most other regards, he actually is not.

He is well known for misrepresenting facts and misinterpreting trends just to support his intended "interests". Like that you also "trust" in him?

[Citizen]

In most other regards, he actually is not.

He is well known for misrepresenting facts and misinterpreting trends just to support his intended "interests". Like that you also "trust" in him?

Totally agreed, no doubt I MTB but I still accept facts, no point mislead and argue over and over again. When I first join the forum I thought I could learn something but in fact I got mislead and not everyone willing to share true facts and info. I only salute to those who are sincere and truthful. Everyone have their own views but have to be sincere and truthful. Please don't give up providing info and opinion because of these few black sheep. Thanks

[Leeds]

Actually it's based on theory knowledge combined with ground assessment. I don't see how participating in an open forum protects interests. I say what I think and feel and many too. What is posted here is unlikely to influence the market. Or do you think it will?


Anyway, I would expect anybody holding 99-years Leasehold properties to say they have confidence in holding them.............
After all, if they don't say so and start telling people that 99-years leasehold properties will drop in value significantly after 20 years of lease, who will become their next greater fool to flip and take over they baby when it becomes a burden?
Understand anyway..........

Teddy had answered your question, I hope......................

Ask any developer or property consultant and they will remain positive because they need to show confidence in the market so that some people will still buy.

Ask any agent and he will tell you anytime is a good time to buy and sell because he takes a cut for every deal.

Ask any investor or speculator who are stuck with their properties and they will tell you the market is likely to take off once ABSD is removed even though deep inside they may be very unsure themselves.

It is only human for people to behave this way.

Aren't you aware that any active forum has many agents, speculators and possibly contributors paid by developers to do just that? Look at the various public forums during GE 2015. There were many keyboard warriors trying to influence the outcome of the results by doing each other. The social media is an important tool to any marketer or politician to succeed in today's environment.

[Kelonguni]

Brother Leeds, since you mistrust the forum so much, why do you still visit?

We are here to exchange info and to verify it against our own observations. At least for me.

The market is so big, what's the function in advertising for any property when there is not 1c to be earned (people who are interested can still buy from their own agents and/or developers)?

And for this forum, it's not even regulated strictly. People get by posting anything.

If there is a good logic and presentation, we will read it and assess it accordingly.

My experience with properties has so far still been very positive in relation to stocks despite the downturn. Lower the asking price (for rent) and rented out in 1 month. Mortgage covered with profit and do not see any reason to sell. Market movements did not and do not influence my decisions. Which property did I try to sell?

Or would you rather I pretend the market is dying despite my own experience noting that this is a bad year that everyone claims?

I have adjusted some of my thinking over the years but always articulate myself based on the prevailing facts and situations.


Teddy had answered your question, I hope......................

Ask any developer or property consultant and they will remain positive because they need to show confidence in the market so that some people will still buy.

Ask any agent and he will tell you anytime is a good time to buy and sell because he takes a cut for every deal.

Ask any investor or speculator who are stuck with their properties and they will tell you the market is likely to take off once ABSD is removed even though deep inside they may be very unsure themselves.

It is only human for people to behave this way.

Aren't you aware that any active forum has many agents, speculators and possibly contributors paid by developers to do just that? Look at the various public forums during GE 2015. There were many keyboard warriors trying to influence the outcome of the results by doing each other. The social media is an important tool to any marketer or politician to succeed in today's environment.

[Leeds]

In most other regards, he actually is not.

He is well known for misrepresenting facts and misinterpreting trends just to support his intended "interests". Like that you also "trust" in him?

I said Teddy is honest and sincere based on what he said and his belief. I did not say that I trust him.

A person can be sincere and honest even though he may be ignorant or lack of wisdom.

I never trust anyone in any public form.

[Leeds]

Brother Leeds, since you mistrust the forum so much, why do you still visit?

I have adjusted some of my thinking over the years but always articulate myself based on the prevailing facts and situations.

A forum is like a community where you need to mix with people to understand the ground and have a feel of the community and the people at large.

Glad that you have adjusted your thinking over the years.

"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers." - Plato

[Kelonguni]

I am glad to learn some technical knowledge from you and corrected some of my misunderstandings.

My adjustment in thinking grew from initially a concern over costs of property holding to the stability and sustainability in the property game implicitly set up for all. This is especially after the Govt has tamed prices and wages have grown over the last few years for the people I know. It might not be in line with anyone's views but I think the current ground is going to stay for some time. It's going to be super stable and resilient going forward based on who I know have entered the market (top performers in my institution and my friends who are top in theirs). These people are not speculators and they have mostly moved in.

I don't know many who are renting out. So maybe they could also share their CCR or non-CCR experiences if they wish.




A forum is like a community where you need to mix with people to understand the ground and have a feel of the community and the people at large.

Glad that you have adjusted your thinking over the years.

"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers." - Plato

[teddybear]

stalingrad,
You are trying to teach us the "secret to being successful in life"?

Very funny indeed!
Isn't the results of being "successful in life" is when you can stay put in a familiar place and still enjoy life and smell the roses and take life easy???
And, Don't have to migrate around like a nomad (like you)..................

Looks like you are still far from being "successful", so how to teach others the "secret of being successful"??? Ironic isn't it? :tsk-tsk:


Teddy, don't get aggressive when stymied. I told you that CCR homes were going to drop like bird poop 8 years ago. And all I got from you was ridicule and insults. You have never changed even after you have been proven wrong about CCR properties. The secret to being successful in life is to be adaptable and willing to learn from those smarter than you. I hope you take that advice from me.

[teddybear]

Talk about being skewed in opinions and trying to manipulate data and presenting half-truths for self-serving interests........... funny indeed!

It is basic knowledge that people who live in OCR are general wage earners, who earn median incomes.
It is also a fact that their incomes are unlikely to grow much now that Singapore's economy has slowed significantly...
We know the average median income salary is only about $8k pm.
How many people in the OCR actually can easily afford a $1.5m 3bedroom private properties in OCR?

Didn't Khaw Boon Wan said that any property more than 4x annual income is unfordable?
So, let's see, $8k x 12 x 4 = S$384k.
that is what a general median income family can afford - S$384k, can only buy a 4-room HDB flat, not even ECs, let alone OCR private condos now going for >$1200 psf or about $1.44m for a 3-bedroom unit of about 1200 sqft.

Even if you take the top 80th-%, their household income is only $15k pm, 4x annual income means = $15k x 12 x 4 = $720k, yes, that is it!
OCR folks mostly can only afford a property at $720k or less!
So you think OCR private properties got a lot of room to rise?
Where these people will get their money from to pay for their monthly instalments???

FACT: The data and statistics we see don't justify current OCR private property prices!

You want to talk about CCR?
Simple, the top 1% household easily earn $Millions a year.
Even we take 4x annual income they can easily afford probably >$8m property.
Lots of CCR properties <$8m, so CCR property prices has MUCH MORE ROOM to rise than OCR because the CCR folks can easily afford to pay more than OCR folk!

Obviously some will argue 4x annual income shouldn't apply to private properties! Ok ok, fine, what ratio you want to use?
Ok ok, let's use 8x annual income can?

If 8x, then OCR folks can only afford < $1.44M properties!
(and that is about current transacted price of a 1200 sqft OCR private property)....

Now if 8x, then CCR folks only afford <$16M properties!
Wow! Lots of properties in CCR are <$3M for a 1200 sqft, so looks like lots of opportunities for upside isn't it??? :playful:

Who can easily afford to pay more for property prices?
OCR folks or CCR folks when OCR and CCR property price rises????
No brainer!!!

Simple theory you also cannot understand or you are still trying to propagate your own self-intersts? :moon:



OK I will also be consistent and tell you the same thing in 30 years.

Unlike ABSD, TDSR is a permanent feature. Unless income growth were as spectacular as they were in the last 20 years, we are unlikely to see a huge spike in high end property value (CCR) when combined with decentralisation efforts. But of course they have already dropped significantly and represents value for people who want to buy them for certain reasons.

[Leeds]

I am glad to learn some technical knowledge from you and corrected some of my misunderstandings.

My adjustment in thinking grew from initially a concern over costs of property holding to the stability and sustainability in the property game implicitly set up for all. This is especially after the Govt has tamed prices and wages have grown over the last few years for the people I know. It might not be in line with anyone's views but I think the current ground is going to stay for some time. It's going to be super stable and resilient going forward based on who I know have entered the market (top performers in my institution and my friends who are top in theirs). These people are not speculators and they have mostly moved in.

I don't know many who are renting out. So maybe they could also share their CCR or non-CCR experiences if they wish.

Remember! A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers.

So buying decisions should not depend on the number of your well respected friends who had bought recently. Nor should it depends on your assessment of what the property prices should be with respect to the rising income (despite knowing that property prices have risen far more than real income since 2009).

If you are investing in the US, it may be easier because the US state of economy depends largely on internal consumption and less affected by external environment.

For Singapore, property investment is much more complex. Our domestic demand is too small to influence the economy and we are highly affected by external factors. We have also exhausted all easy means to grow our economy such as the influx of foreigners and cheap labour.

For investors investing in Singapore's property, we need to look at both the local and global factors and the government's policies especially towards wealth re-distributions. From a social economic perspective, property in Singapore is very much unaffordable. There are good economic, social and political reasons to believe that assets prices have to come down to sensible level to maintain competitiveness and also to move towards a more centre-left society with which the government is now embarking.

There are some investors buying into CCR now because prices in CCR have been correcting slowly since 2011. With the slowing economy, more value buys can be found in CCR. Prices in OCR and RCR are likely to come under pressure soon with the government's firmness towards a soft landing.

Teddy may not be one of my favourite characters in this forum, but his contributions since 2013 have been very informative and constructive.

[Kelonguni]

My thinking is more support for OCR coming after the HDB upgraders complete their MOP within these two years.

Obviously Teddy has underestimated this group, just read his previous condescending post. Not constructive and not informative. He stereotypes them, boxes people into groups, and through the prejudiced lens, is bound not to be able to understand the situation or predict future movements accurately.





Remember! A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers.

So buying decisions should not depend on the number of your well respected friends who had bought recently. Nor should it depends on your assessment of what the property prices should be with respect to the rising income (despite knowing that property prices have risen far more than real income since 2009).

If you are investing in the US, it may be easier because the US state of economy depends largely on internal consumption and less affected by external environment.

For Singapore, property investment is much more complex. Our domestic demand is too small to influence the economy and we are highly affected by external factors. We have also exhausted all easy means to grow our economy such as the influx of foreigners and cheap labour.

For investors investing in Singapore's property, we need to look at both the local and global factors and the government's policies especially towards wealth re-distributions. From a social economic perspective, property in Singapore is very much unaffordable. There are good economic, social and political reasons to believe that assets prices have to come down to sensible level to maintain competitiveness and also to move towards a more centre-left society with which the government is now embarking.

There are some investors buying into CCR now because prices in CCR have been correcting slowly since 2011. With the slowing economy, more value buys can be found in CCR. Prices in OCR and RCR are likely to come under pressure soon with the government's firmness towards a soft landing.

Teddy may not be one of my favourite characters in this forum, but his contributions since 2013 have been very informative and constructive.

[Kelonguni]

Simple theory you also cannot understand or you are still trying to propagate your own self-interests? :moon:

People who read without bias will be able to decide whether I am propagating my self interest. :)

[bargain hunter]

bro, correct me if i'm wrong coz i don't have time to go through all your posts but u have similarly underestimated the reasons for why there are buyers for CCR properties and why they seem to be coming back?


My thinking is more support for OCR coming after the HDB upgraders complete their MOP within these two years.

Obviously Teddy has underestimated this group, just read his previous condescending post. Not constructive and not informative. He stereotypes them, boxes people into groups, and through the prejudiced lens, is bound not to be able to understand the situation or predict future movements accurately.

[Kelonguni]

Bro Bargain hunter, don't get me wrong.

I have never said there will be no CCR buyers. My thinking is that the regions are related. There is no way one can deny that CCR>RCR>OCR, but my thinking was that the gap would close up, from the time of ABSD (2012), but especially after TDSR (2013) implementation. The gap would still be there but unlikely to widen for some time more.

For those who need to buy CCR, this is a good time to go in. The prices on sale appears close to RCR at the peak. For me, I am content holding a few units of OCR and collecting rent rather than to consolidate to get CCR. Any emergencies, I can still sell one or two and still have a place to stay. Moreover, the current environment makes it very hard to buy and sell, taxes implanted everywhere. Even for recession, people still need a place to stay, maybe move further and further from city centre only...

I believe that a good proportion of upgraders will think similarly, to get OCR properties both as a result of being near workplace and also to minimise amount (risk) placed in. Agreed that we are not big businessmen with huge capital to move around.




bro, correct me if i'm wrong coz i don't have time to go through all your posts but u have similarly underestimated the reasons for why there are buyers for CCR properties and why they seem to be coming back?

[cartman]

latest feb caveat for oceanfront @ sentosa cove

size 1647 sq ft sold at $1.894m, only $1150 psf

but its a patio unit though

[teddybear]

What is there to under-estimate the OCR folks?
Like that you can also say the government under-estimated the OCR folks when they implemented TDSR? (we all know that the OCR folks put most of their total assets in properties compared to the CCR folks...)
Furthermore, my estimation and forecast is based on OCR folks' income statistics collected by the government, and I am just trying to estimate what is the max property price that is still considered affordable to them based on their income data....

Khaw Boon Wan said 4x anual income.

Ok I am very generous by doubling that to 8x annual income.
Even at such OPTIMISTICALLY SUPER HIGH multiple, the current OCR property prices are already considered very high vs the INCOME of these OCR folks.

Anybody (except an idiot) would know that whether property price can rise is all about affordability of the people buying them, and the statistics for the INCOME of OCR folks vs current OCR property prices are already REALLY PESSIMISTIC, let alone think about probability of significant price rise for OCR property prices!
For OCR property price to rise, the general OCR folks will have to have much higher salary rise, but that is almost impossible given the stagnant Singapore economy..........

When economy is bad, general people (the OCR folks) will only see pay decrease or even jobless, and not pay rise significantly.

We have seen that in 2009, and we will see that again..............



As to potential HDB upgraders after they complete their MOP, why would they want to upgrade to OCR private properties and pay sky-high price (and over-commit vs their income)?
Not when economy is bad, their job is unsecure, they may get retrenched, cost of living still going up, ....
Anyway, TDSR already most likely killed most of these people's upgrading plan........ :pig:

As to your statement about what I said is not constructive and not informative despite my argument being based on hard facts (OCR folks income data), and the generally used income multiple (4x annual income), I don't know what to say! :cower:
You are telling all of us here that you are not prejudiced when you are just giving empty talks and cannot substantiate what you said and claimed with hard data and statistics? :indecisiveness:

How about this, based on income profile of OCR folks, show us how much more OCR property prices can go up and they will still remain easily affordable to OCR folks based on their household income?
Come on, show us the hard facts and statistics, don't just give empty talks........
No wonder people say empty vessel make the loudest noise! :pig:




My thinking is more support for OCR coming after the HDB upgraders complete their MOP within these two years.

Obviously Teddy has underestimated this group, just read his previous condescending post. Not constructive and not informative. He stereotypes them, boxes people into groups, and through the prejudiced lens, is bound not to be able to understand the situation or predict future movements accurately.

[Leeds]

Teddy is right that with TDSR, few HDB upgrader could afford to upgrade to private property at current price level. With a slowing economy and rising interest rate, prices for OCR can only come down. If the price gap between CCR and OCR flattens further, those foreigners who have been buying into OCR now will switch back to OCR and even less people will be buying into OCR.

MAS has indicated that they are monitoring the prices in OCR because this is the segment that needs attention. I think both MAS and MND are confident that prices in OCR will be heading for a soft landing as planned, hence no additional measure now to address the prices inequality between CCR and OCR.

[bargain hunter]

another urban resort penthouse sold:

25 FEB 2016 32A CAIRNHILL ROAD #XX-XX RESALE 4,715sq ft STRATA 1,803psf $8,500,000 PRIVATE

is this project fully sold now?

[bargain hunter]

no loss to report at the perennial favourite. instead, a profit for a big unit at st regis:

Sold 26 FEB 2016 33 TANGLIN ROAD #XX-XX 5,543sq ft 2,706psf
Bought 10 FEB 2012 2,111psf

[bargain hunter]

ground floor unit at leedon residences:

LEEDON RESIDENCE LEEDON HEIGHTS Condominium 10 CCR Freehold New Sale 1 $8,133,000 - 4,822sq ft Strata 01 to 05 1,687psf Feb-16

[Kelonguni]

KBW (or Tharman) also said that 1,000 salary can buy flat. But the cheapest flat I can find (2rm flexi) is 76K after grants.

4X annual income is at max 48K affordability. How to reconcile with 76K?

Don't take people's words so seriously. What he said is not written in the bible.

[Kelonguni]

So in your opinion, should I sell all OCR to exchange for 1 CCR FH property to house 1 family now that authorities say CCR ok but OCR still elevated?


Teddy is right that with TDSR, few HDB upgrader could afford to upgrade to private property at current price level. With a slowing economy and rising interest rate, prices for OCR can only come down. If the price gap between CCR and OCR flattens further, those foreigners who have been buying into OCR now will switch back to OCR and even less people will be buying into OCR.

MAS has indicated that they are monitoring the prices in OCR because this is the segment that needs attention. I think both MAS and MND are confident that prices in OCR will be heading for a soft landing as planned, hence no additional measure now to address the prices inequality between CCR and OCR.

[bargain hunter]

i think its simply that CCR gets its soft landing earlier (since it has shitted since 2007 peak) than OCR that's all. so there's no need to switch.

its more a case now of if there is a good value buy for CCR there will be buyers while for OCR, there are more units available to buyers, hence not as much urgency to buy.


So in your opinion, should I sell all OCR to exchange for 1 CCR FH property to house 1 family now that authorities say CCR ok but OCR still elevated?

[Kelonguni]

Quite true also. But likely stay put. Change here there so much tax. Thanks!


i think its simply that CCR gets its soft landing earlier (since it has shitted since 2007 peak) than OCR that's all. so there's no need to switch.

its more a case now of if there is a good value buy for CCR there will be buyers while for OCR, there are more units available to buyers, hence not as much urgency to buy.

[bargain hunter]

i agree with you on the OCR theory. however, for CCR there are just too many dimensions so we can't say that just because upgraders will prefer OCR, the price gap may close further. like for e.g., BT reported a sudden return of interest by indonesians for Cairnhill Nine:

"Cheques received for a sizeable number of the total 268 units; Indonesians make up big portion of potential buyers"

Tata Goeyardi, director of Asean sales at Religare Capital Markets: "What surprised us is the willingness of Indonesians to purchase, even with the 15 per cent additional buyer's stamp duty for foreigners. This has created a new hope for the residential market in Singapore.

"The official sales number is not out yet, but to be honest, this project does bring a lot of attention due to its location and lower pricing among our Indonesian friends. It has been a long time since Indonesian friends would call us and ask for specific projects."

Whether these enquiries are project-specific remains to be seen, although it could spell the start of property market buzz returning, he said."

we shall know at the launch next say, 12 Mar, whether what he said is true or its simply blank cheques which do not turn into sales.

also, we have read articles about multi million dollar funds which have been set up to buy high end properties. BT also mentioned:

"As for another high-end condominium nearby, City Developments' (CDL) yet-to-be-launched Gramercy Park at Grange Road, BT had earlier reported that the 174-unit freehold project has received unsolicited interest for one of the two towers.

At the group's latest results briefing, group general manager Chia Ngiang Hong had said a "reasonable" price should be around S$3,000 psf."

so there are also these funds who are watching and keen to buy projects by the floors/stacks/blocks or they could simply sell it to their fund management platforms: "The project is nearly completed and Mr Goeyardi said it is one of three projects that CDL could look to inject into its fund management platform in due course."









Bro Bargain hunter, don't get me wrong.

I have never said there will be no CCR buyers. My thinking is that the regions are related. There is no way one can deny that CCR>RCR>OCR, but my thinking was that the gap would close up, from the time of ABSD (2012), but especially after TDSR (2013) implementation. The gap would still be there but unlikely to widen for some time more.

For those who need to buy CCR, this is a good time to go in. The prices on sale appears close to RCR at the peak. For me, I am content holding a few units of OCR and collecting rent rather than to consolidate to get CCR. Any emergencies, I can still sell one or two and still have a place to stay. Moreover, the current environment makes it very hard to buy and sell, taxes implanted everywhere. Even for recession, people still need a place to stay, maybe move further and further from city centre only...

I believe that a good proportion of upgraders will think similarly, to get OCR properties both as a result of being near workplace and also to minimise amount (risk) placed in. Agreed that we are not big businessmen with huge capital to move around.

[teddybear]

I don't think most upgraders genuinely prefer OCR, but really it is because OCR private properties are what they can barely afford (at >8x their annual income).......


i agree with you on the OCR theory. however, for CCR there are just too many dimensions so we can't say that just because upgraders will prefer OCR, the price gap may close further. like for e.g., BT reported a sudden return of interest by indonesians for Cairnhill Nine:

"Cheques received for a sizeable number of the total 268 units; Indonesians make up big portion of potential buyers"

Tata Goeyardi, director of Asean sales at Religare Capital Markets: "What surprised us is the willingness of Indonesians to purchase, even with the 15 per cent additional buyer's stamp duty for foreigners. This has created a new hope for the residential market in Singapore.

"The official sales number is not out yet, but to be honest, this project does bring a lot of attention due to its location and lower pricing among our Indonesian friends. It has been a long time since Indonesian friends would call us and ask for specific projects."

Whether these enquiries are project-specific remains to be seen, although it could spell the start of property market buzz returning, he said."

we shall know at the launch next say, 12 Mar, whether what he said is true or its simply blank cheques which do not turn into sales.

also, we have read articles about multi million dollar funds which have been set up to buy high end properties. BT also mentioned:

"As for another high-end condominium nearby, City Developments' (CDL) yet-to-be-launched Gramercy Park at Grange Road, BT had earlier reported that the 174-unit freehold project has received unsolicited interest for one of the two towers.

At the group's latest results briefing, group general manager Chia Ngiang Hong had said a "reasonable" price should be around S$3,000 psf."

so there are also these funds who are watching and keen to buy projects by the floors/stacks/blocks or they could simply sell it to their fund management platforms: "The project is nearly completed and Mr Goeyardi said it is one of three projects that CDL could look to inject into its fund management platform in due course."

[stalingrad]

i agree with you on the OCR theory. however, for CCR there are just too many dimensions so we can't say that just because upgraders will prefer OCR, the price gap may close further. like for e.g., BT reported a sudden return of interest by indonesians for Cairnhill Nine:

"Cheques received for a sizeable number of the total 268 units; Indonesians make up big portion of potential buyers"

Tata Goeyardi, director of Asean sales at Religare Capital Markets: "What surprised us is the willingness of Indonesians to purchase, even with the 15 per cent additional buyer's stamp duty for foreigners. This has created a new hope for the residential market in Singapore.

"The official sales number is not out yet, but to be honest, this project does bring a lot of attention due to its location and lower pricing among our Indonesian friends. It has been a long time since Indonesian friends would call us and ask for specific projects."

Whether these enquiries are project-specific remains to be seen, although it could spell the start of property market buzz returning, he said."

we shall know at the launch next say, 12 Mar, whether what he said is true or its simply blank cheques which do not turn into sales.

also, we have read articles about multi million dollar funds which have been set up to buy high end properties. BT also mentioned:

"As for another high-end condominium nearby, City Developments' (CDL) yet-to-be-launched Gramercy Park at Grange Road, BT had earlier reported that the 174-unit freehold project has received unsolicited interest for one of the two towers.

At the group's latest results briefing, group general manager Chia Ngiang Hong had said a "reasonable" price should be around S$3,000 psf."

so there are also these funds who are watching and keen to buy projects by the floors/stacks/blocks or they could simply sell it to their fund management platforms: "The project is nearly completed and Mr Goeyardi said it is one of three projects that CDL could look to inject into its fund management platform in due course."

Money laundering has returned. Singapore should really be more vigilant on that.

[teddybear]

What? When the rich buy you call them "money laundering"?

When the average layman like you buy, what should we call? Thief?? Did you steal otherwise how come can afford to buy that private property?? :axekiller:


Money laundering has returned. Singapore should really be more vigilant on that.

[stalingrad]

What? When the rich buy you call them "money laundering"?

When the average layman like you buy, what should we call? Thief?? Did you steal otherwise how come can afford to buy that private property?? :axekiller:

Teddy, how do the Indonesian tycoons earn their billions? They burn the forests for their plantations, they pollute the environment, they bribe Indonesian officials to turn a blind eye, and they park their ill-gotten money in Singapore because Singapore love all overseas Chinese. That is money laundering to me because if the money had been kept in Indonesia, god knows when it will be confiscated.

[teddybear]

Looks like you are so jealous of their wealth that you look at all of them with tainted glasses?
By the way, it is a FACT not all Indonesian tycoons earn their money from plantations..........
And for those who do, NOT ALL of them burn forests for their plantations........
And for those who park money in Singapore probably a large number are not ill-gotten (otherwise they would have been charged with money laundering in Singapore).........

It is no difference from saying that layman like you if you can afford to buy private property in Singapore you must have stolen from your company, avoided taxes, always try to avoid using your parking coupons (when you are supposed to), try to scrimp and save on your family expenses (to the extent of ill-treating and depriving your parents and your wife and your children of proper comfort in their life) etc, otherwise how can you accumulate so much money??? :pig:



Teddy, how do the Indonesian tycoons earn their billions? They burn the forests for their plantations, they pollute the environment, they bribe Indonesian officials to turn a blind eye, and they park their ill-gotten money in Singapore because Singapore love all overseas Chinese. That is money laundering to me because if the money had been kept in Indonesia, god knows when it will be confiscated.

[Kelonguni]

Actually my prediction of gap closing was made in 2012 and 2013. The current sales and interest is partially due to price and tenure. As Teddy admitted, they are still out of reach to the masses. A Singaporean with that kind of money will also consider OCR landed or alternative investments if they are not aggressive with housing.

In short, the gap should sustain at this level for quite some time. That is what I said.

[stalingrad]

Looks like you are so jealous of their wealth that you look at all of them with tainted glasses?
By the way, it is a FACT not all Indonesian tycoons earn their money from plantations..........
And for those who do, NOT ALL of them burn forests for their plantations........
And for those who park money in Singapore probably a large number are not ill-gotten (otherwise they would have been charged with money laundering in Singapore).........

It is no difference from saying that layman like you if you can afford to buy private property in Singapore you must have stolen from your company, avoided taxes, always try to avoid using your parking coupons (when you are supposed to), try to scrimp and save on your family expenses (to the extent of ill-treating and depriving your parents and your wife and your children of proper comfort in their life) etc, otherwise how can you accumulate so much money??? :pig:

Take a deep breath, Teddy. You are hyper-ventilating. And it is showing.

[bargain hunter]

that's right, the prices had been narrowing because of the ABSD and TDSR. but the first signs of a possible bottom for CCR seems to be starting. worth watching even if just from an observer point of view. :peaceful:


Actually my prediction of gap closing was made in 2012 and 2013. The current sales and interest is partially due to price and tenure. As Teddy admitted, they are still out of reach to the masses. A Singaporean with that kind of money will also consider OCR landed or alternative investments if they are not aggressive with housing.

In short, the gap should sustain at this level for quite some time. That is what I said.

[Kelonguni]

True that. I won't be surprised if there are months of opening and closing of gaps, maybe because of the different offering of leasehold properties with good attributes at good prices. But really needs a huge chunk of standby cash and CPF to proceed.

Thanks for sharing the lobangs!


that's right, the prices had been narrowing because of the ABSD and TDSR. but the first signs of a possible bottom for CCR seems to be starting. worth watching even if just from an observer point of view. :peaceful:

[Sandiwara]

Talk about being skewed in opinions and trying to manipulate data and presenting half-truths for self-serving interests........... funny indeed!

It is basic knowledge that people who live in OCR are general wage earners, who earn median incomes.
It is also a fact that their incomes are unlikely to grow much now that Singapore's economy has slowed significantly...
We know the average median income salary is only about $8k pm.
How many people in the OCR actually can easily afford a $1.5m 3bedroom private properties in OCR?

Didn't Khaw Boon Wan said that any property more than 4x annual income is unfordable?
So, let's see, $8k x 12 x 4 = S$384k.
that is what a general median income family can afford - S$384k, can only buy a 4-room HDB flat, not even ECs, let alone OCR private condos now going for >$1200 psf or about $1.44m for a 3-bedroom unit of about 1200 sqft.

Even if you take the top 80th-%, their household income is only $15k pm, 4x annual income means = $15k x 12 x 4 = $720k, yes, that is it!
OCR folks mostly can only afford a property at $720k or less!
So you think OCR private properties got a lot of room to rise?
Where these people will get their money from to pay for their monthly instalments???

FACT: The data and statistics we see don't justify current OCR private property prices!

You want to talk about CCR?
Simple, the top 1% household easily earn $Millions a year.
Even we take 4x annual income they can easily afford probably >$8m property.
Lots of CCR properties <$8m, so CCR property prices has MUCH MORE ROOM to rise than OCR because the CCR folks can easily afford to pay more than OCR folk!

Obviously some will argue 4x annual income shouldn't apply to private properties! Ok ok, fine, what ratio you want to use?
Ok ok, let's use 8x annual income can?

If 8x, then OCR folks can only afford < $1.44M properties!
(and that is about current transacted price of a 1200 sqft OCR private property)....

Now if 8x, then CCR folks only afford <$16M properties!
Wow! Lots of properties in CCR are <$3M for a 1200 sqft, so looks like lots of opportunities for upside isn't it??? :playful:

Who can easily afford to pay more for property prices?
OCR folks or CCR folks when OCR and CCR property price rises????
No brainer!!!

Simple theory you also cannot understand or you are still trying to propagate your own self-intersts? :moon:

I do not know about the REAL OCR earner statistics. But I only earn around 7.xxx/month but I can afford to buy OCR condo with price 800k.

[walkthetiger]

I do not know about the REAL OCR earner statistics. But I only earn around 7.xxx/month but I can afford to buy OCR condo with price 800k.

Khaw Boon Wan already said 4x annual income.
30 years housing loan will be near $3k pm already, so you left only few thousands every month.
Assume many upgraders are like you, and then Teddy is right to question how much more OCR property prices can go up.
A plan for successful retirement is important.

[Kelonguni]

Employer CPF contribution? Spouse income? Rental income?

Managed well, very little or no cash/CPF down every month.

Anyway this is CCR bargains thread so maybe stay on track?


Khaw Boon Wan already said 4x annual income.
30 years housing loan will be near $3k pm already, so you left only few thousands every month.
Assume many upgraders are like you, and then Teddy is right to question how much more OCR property prices can go up.
A plan for successful retirement is important.

[teddybear]

I am still eagerly waiting for the statistics based on hard facts and data (aka household income of HDB upgraders) to justify why OCR private property prices has more upside than the already tenously over-stretched price now...................

If you are unable to provide such statistics despite rubbishing those statistics I provided based on hard facts, then using your own words, you are proving to us that what you said are:
* Not constructive and not informative.
* through the prejudiced lens
* is bound not to be able to understand the situation or predict future movements accurately.

Won't the above statements made by you about me ACTUALLY fits yourself perfectly very well INSTEAD??? :hurt:



My thinking is more support for OCR coming after the HDB upgraders complete their MOP within these two years.

Obviously Teddy has underestimated this group, just read his previous condescending post. Not constructive and not informative . He stereotypes them, boxes people into groups, and through the prejudiced lens, is bound not to be able to understand the situation or predict future movements accurately.


What is there to under-estimate the OCR folks?
Like that you can also say the government under-estimated the OCR folks when they implemented TDSR? (we all know that the OCR folks put most of their total assets in properties compared to the CCR folks...)
Furthermore, my estimation and forecast is based on OCR folks' income statistics collected by the government, and I am just trying to estimate what is the max property price that is still considered affordable to them based on their income data....

Khaw Boon Wan said 4x anual income.

Ok I am very generous by doubling that to 8x annual income.
Even at such OPTIMISTICALLY SUPER HIGH multiple, the current OCR property prices are already considered very high vs the INCOME of these OCR folks.

Anybody (except an idiot) would know that whether property price can rise is all about affordability of the people buying them, and the statistics for the INCOME of OCR folks vs current OCR property prices are already REALLY PESSIMISTIC, let alone think about probability of significant price rise for OCR property prices!
For OCR property price to rise, the general OCR folks will have to have much higher salary rise, but that is almost impossible given the stagnant Singapore economy..........

When economy is bad, general people (the OCR folks) will only see pay decrease or even jobless, and not pay rise significantly.

We have seen that in 2009, and we will see that again..............



As to potential HDB upgraders after they complete their MOP, why would they want to upgrade to OCR private properties and pay sky-high price (and over-commit vs their income)?
Not when economy is bad, their job is unsecure, they may get retrenched, cost of living still going up, ....
Anyway, TDSR already most likely killed most of these people's upgrading plan........ :pig:

As to your statement about what I said is not constructive and not informative despite my argument being based on hard facts (OCR folks income data), and the generally used income multiple (4x annual income), I don't know what to say! :cower:
You are telling all of us here that you are not prejudiced when you are just giving empty talks and cannot substantiate what you said and claimed with hard data and statistics? :indecisiveness:

How about this, based on income profile of OCR folks, show us how much more OCR property prices can go up and they will still remain easily affordable to OCR folks based on their household income?
Come on, show us the hard facts and statistics, don't just give empty talks........
No wonder people say empty vessel make the loudest noise! :pig:

[Kelonguni]

Yes Sir Teddy, I will provide stats for you even though there are no advantages for me. Give me some time to give you a convincing report ok?

What will you treat me if the report is delivered?


I am still eagerly waiting for the statistics based on hard facts and data (aka household income of HDB upgraders) to justify why OCR private property prices has more upside than the already tenously over-stretched price now...................

If you are unable to provide such statistics despite rubbishing those statistics I provided based on hard facts, then using your own words, you are proving to us that what you said are:
* Not constructive and not informative.
* through the prejudiced lens
* is bound not to be able to understand the situation or predict future movements accurately.

Won't the above statements made by you about me ACTUALLY fits yourself perfectly very well INSTEAD??? :hurt:

[Sandiwara]

Khaw Boon Wan already said 4x annual income.
30 years housing loan will be near $3k pm already, so you left only few thousands every month.
Assume many upgraders are like you, and then Teddy is right to question how much more OCR property prices can go up.
A plan for successful retirement is important.

My last payment with 1 month sibor + 1% is around 2,2xx pm

[Sandiwara]

I do not want to post subject that out of the thread. What I am trying to say is some people believe to much on their statistics that my not reflect the real situation.

[teddybear]

I eager awaits..............

Why is there a need for treat when I have been contributing significantly, backing up what I said with hard facts and statistics without any "treat"?? :distant:

And many other forum contributors here also never ask for "treat"?? :tranquillity:



Yes Sir Teddy, I will provide stats for you even though there are no advantages for me. Give me some time to give you a convincing report ok?

What will you treat me if the report is delivered?

[teddybear]

I believe my below post would have answered your question.........
No more arbitrary 4x or 8x or ?x annual income ratio etc.............
The annual income ratio is already encrypted in TDSR and "fixed" by MAS /Singapore Government......... :surprise:

However, you need to understand that this is the "MAXIMUM" price and NOT "EASILY AFFORDABLE" price just because you pass the TDSR...........

If your income is low, then even if you pass TDSR, you probably do not have enough savings to retire.......................... :hurt:

All these can be backed up with statistics and hard FACTs by doing some calculations of TDSR and income etc.............
May be you can work out and let me know (I would be glad if you can prove me wrong, though I am sure I am right, based on my sharp sense and quick thinking without even doing the detail calculation)
- I believe TDSR for OCR folks' income of $8k pm will result in about 8x annual income ratio (and remember, this is the "MAXIMUM", NOT recommended "EASILY AFFORDABLE" price).........


I do not want to post subject that out of the thread. What I am trying to say is some people believe to much on their statistics that my not reflect the real situation.


Repost the below here...................

Somebody argued that using 4x annual income or 8x annual income seems arbitrary. He said he consider property price at 12x annual income to be still cheap, cheap or expensive is arbitrary isn't it??

Well well, but he REALLY CAN'T because TDSR already "FIXED" him so that he can't borrow any loan probably more than certain multiple of annual income! :surprise:

Well, actually rather than argue about how many times annual income a property should be considered affordable, I think the best way is to try using TDSR calculation to calculate what is the max loan these OCR folks are able to borrow then we will roughly know what property price the Singapore Government/MAS consider to be already the highest limit for the OCR folks' income? This does make a lot of sense!
Don't need to argue 4x, 8x etc! Singapore Government /MAS already told you what they think is the max property price a person can afford and this is encrypted into TDSR calculation!

[stalingrad]

Bargain hunter,

Didn't we have a bet about whether Carabelle or Parc Emily would register greater price appreciation back in 2009 or 2010?

I read on another thread that at 3-bedder at Parc Emily has been rented out recently for $4,100. My Carabelle unit was on the first contract extension for two more years and the rental rate per year is $5,000.

Just to let you and Teddy know.

[bargain hunter]

i hope what i say won't make parc emily owners angry. but this is just my personal view. i feel that parc emily is closer to little india even though it managed to make it within the border of D9. for that reason, the original buyers of parc emily were able to buy at a huge discount to whatever the market rate was for D9 at that time. the re-rating took place during the CCR boom. but now that CCR is closer to bust than boom, buyers and tenants have much better choices with a 5k budget.

i remembered concluding on our park infinia vs carabelle race with park infinia scrapping out a narrow win. stalin bro, park infinia is MOST DEFINITELY NOT PARC EMILY! :)


Bargain hunter,

Didn't we have a bet about whether Carabelle or Parc Emily would register greater price appreciation back in 2009 or 2010?

I read on another thread that at 3-bedder at Parc Emily has been rented out recently for $4,100. My Carabelle unit was on the first contract extension for two more years and the rental rate per year is $5,000.

Just to let you and Teddy know.

[teddybear]

Ha ha ha, very funny!
When did Park Infinia become Parc Emily??? :glee:

Stalingrad,
You want to compare rental?
Why not you tell us the size of your unit, floor level and also facing, then we find Park Infinia unit with similar characteristics to yours to compare??? :chargrined:



i hope what i say won't make parc emily owners angry. but this is just my personal view. i feel that parc emily is closer to little india even though it managed to make it within the border of D9. for that reason, the original buyers of parc emily were able to buy at a huge discount to whatever the market rate was for D9 at that time. the re-rating took place during the CCR boom. but now that CCR is closer to bust than boom, buyers and tenants have much better choices with a 5k budget.

i remembered concluding on our park infinia vs carabelle race with park infinia scrapping out a narrow win. stalin bro, park infinia is MOST DEFINITELY NOT PARC EMILY! :)

[bargain hunter]

he mentioned 5k, in the past half a year, there's a 5k unit for a >2000 sq ft ft 5 bedder penthouse at Carabelle.

there's also a 5.2k for a 4 bedroom unit of 1400 sq ft but that looks more like an outlier. in oct, a similar unit was tenanted at 3.6k.

in jan 2016, a 2 bedder at park infinia of 800 to 900 sq ft was tenanted for 5k. during the same half a year, cheapest 3 bedder was tenanted for 5.5k. while if we compare a similar outlier, a 3 bedder of the same size was tenanted at 7.9k in Jan 16.



Ha ha ha, very funny!
When did Park Infinia become Parc Emily??? :glee:



Stalingrad,
You want to compare rental?
Why not you tell us the size of your unit, floor level and also facing, then we find Park Infinia unit with similar characteristics to yours to compare??? :chargrined:

[teddybear]

Respectable man with your resourcefulness of the data! :loyal:

Stalingrad can't fool you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :chargrined:

Wonder whether his is the >2000 sqft penthouse? Like that Carabelle rental yield very low since <$2.50 psf pm rental only??? :hurt:


he mentioned 5k, in the past half a year, there's a 5k unit for a >2000 sq ft ft 5 bedder penthouse at Carabelle.

there's also a 5.2k for a 4 bedroom unit of 1400 sq ft but that looks more like an outlier. in oct, a similar unit was tenanted at 3.6k.

in jan 2016, a 2 bedder at park infinia of 800 to 900 sq ft was tenanted for 5k. during the same half a year, cheapest 3 bedder was tenanted for 5.5k. while if we compare a similar outlier, a 3 bedder of the same size was tenanted at 7.9k in Jan 16.

[bargain hunter]

Respectable man with your resourcefulness of the data! :loyal:

Stalingrad can't fool you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :chargrined:

Wonder whether his is the >2000 sqft penthouse? Like that Carabelle rental yield very low since <$2.50 psf pm rental only??? :hurt:

but these are all public data. taken from URA website. the whole world can see it. :)

[stalingrad]

No, my humble unit is a 1,302 sqf 3-bedder. 5,000/1,302 = $3.84/sqrt. And it is on the worst floor for you Hokkiens, 4th. The renter is a Japanese expat with family.

I wanted a bigger home and that is why we pulled up the stakes and went home after 17 years in SG.

[bargain hunter]

i think its the cantonese who dislike the number 4 more than the hokkiens?


No, my humble unit is a 1,302 sqf 3-bedder. 5,000/1,302 = $3.84/sqrt. And it is on the worst floor for you Hokkiens, 4th. The renter is a Japanese expat with family.

I wanted a bigger home and that is why we pulled up the stakes and went home after 17 years in SG.

[Spincity1]

Parc Emily rental

[teddybear]

Agreed that Hokkien do not regard "4" as unlucky number or dislike 4, only Cantonese predominately do so....................

Stalingrad can't differentiate Cantonese, Hokkien, Hainanese, TeoChew etc???


i think its the cantonese who dislike the number 4 more than the hokkiens?

[HP65]

No, my humble unit is a 1,302 sqf 3-bedder. 5,000/1,302 = $3.84/sqrt. And it is on the worst floor for you Hokkiens, 4th. The renter is a Japanese expat with family.

I wanted a bigger home and that is why we pulled up the stakes and went home after 17 years in SG.

You sure you wanted a bigger home aka farm or was it because you only managed a 'D' grade for your annual appraisal while working at NUS thus had to pack up and go due to non-renewal of contract? I guess that's why you had so much animosity towards Singaporeans and took issue when Singaporeans despise foreign trash like you?

[august]

Hahahaha. :glee:

[stalingrad]

You sure you wanted a bigger home aka farm or was it because you only managed a 'D' grade for your annual appraisal while working at NUS thus had to pack up and go due to non-renewal of contract? I guess that's why you had so much animosity towards Singaporeans and took issue when Singaporeans despise foreign trash like you?


Haha, say whatever pleases you. NUS wanted me to stay and offered me a large pay raise. I was sorry to say no to them. Immediately after we returned, we bought a BWM X3 for $60,000 (for my wife) and Toyota RAV4 for $27,000. Not to mention my new home for less than 400,000.

That is why we returned. Everything is so much cheaper here. That is something that NUS can never compete with. Plus I am just tired of dealing with petty-minded vindictive people like yourself.

[stalingrad]

Teddy,

No, I can't. I only know that people in SG told me that my home would have a hard time getting a renter because it is on the 4th. But they were wrong. We had a bite only two weeks after we put in on the market.

[stalingrad]

You sure you wanted a bigger home aka farm or was it because you only managed a 'D' grade for your annual appraisal while working at NUS thus had to pack up and go due to non-renewal of contract? I guess that's why you had so much animosity towards Singaporeans and took issue when Singaporeans despise foreign trash like you?

Haha, yes, we live in barn. This would be the most luxurious barn in the world. It sure beats your claustrophobic condo in Singapore.

[HP65]

Haha, say whatever pleases you. NUS wanted me to stay and offered me a large pay raise. I was sorry to say no to them. Immediately after we returned, we bought a BWM X3 for $60,000 (for my wife) and Toyota RAV4 for $27,000. Not to mention my new home for less than 400,000.

That is why we returned. Everything is so much cheaper here. That is something that NUS can never compete with. Plus I am just tired of dealing with petty-minded vindictive people like yourself.

I took a screen shot of your comments and forwarded to your ex-colleagues and they just shake their head in disbelief that you still did not learn from your mistakes.

You are just all too arrogant or maybe ignorant/ naive and left too many digital footprints, with all your racist and discriminatory comments about Singaporeans and lack of respect for your adopted country. Worse, all you could rebut is to suggest the ease (for you at least, but probably due to your incompetence to earn more in Singapore) of amassing material possessions overseas for reasons to leave Singapore? No wonder you had such a miserable time in NUS, being pass over for promotion by real talent (both foreign and local). You know what's your bigger problem besides your incompetency? It's your blindness to your incompetency :D

So we are not petty minded nor vindictive. We just want to highlight foreign trash like you and to remind those who remain in Singapore better be careful with their performance or they too would be shipped out. I did my part by reminding my HR to hire the right talent and perform full reference check so that I do not waste resources hiring and firing scumbags like you. Thankfully, there aren't many in my firm.

[thomastansb]

This is actually the first time I can agree with you on something. LOL.





What? When the rich buy you call them "money laundering"?

When the average layman like you buy, what should we call? Thief?? Did you steal otherwise how come can afford to buy that private property?? :axekiller:

[thomastansb]

I have stayed in big country houses before. I think I still prefer my claustrophobic studio. 700 sq ft, just nice enough for 1 person. More than enough space for me. It depends on individual preference. You might like big houses but other people don't. And cost of living is damn low for a first world country so I have no complain. Where on earth can you get $2.50 a meal and $1.20 train rides? I think I have traveled enough to qualify to make that statement.





Haha, yes, we live in barn. This would be the most luxurious barn in the world. It sure beats your claustrophobic condo in Singapore.

[teddybear]

Stalingrad,
Very funny indeed! Live in barn still luxurious?

And talk of size of property we live in, I had lived in bungalow surrounded by our own land the size of more than 5 football fields, but I still prefer small bungalow in the sky (what you called "claustrophobic condo") rather than large bungalow with huge land, and I am telling you from my experience since "large" is useless to me, and you have not even experience the "large" and "exclusiveness" and "luxurious" (in your words) that I have ever experience yet ha ha ha! No wonder people say there are some idiot who just because they have not experience it they always look longingly towards it, like "moon is always rounder in the other pasture".................. Think may be nomad always think this way????? :eagerness:



Haha, yes, we live in barn. This would be the most luxurious barn in the world. It sure beats your claustrophobic condo in Singapore.


I have stayed in big country houses before. I think I still prefer my claustrophobic studio. 700 sq ft, just nice enough for 1 person. More than enough space for me. It depends on individual preference. You might like big houses but other people don't. And cost of living is damn low for a first world country so I have no complain. Where on earth can you get $2.50 a meal and $1.20 train rides? I think I have traveled enough to qualify to make that statement.

[bargain hunter]

No, my humble unit is a 1,302 sqf 3-bedder. 5,000/1,302 = $3.84/sqrt. And it is on the worst floor for you Hokkiens, 4th. The renter is a Japanese expat with family.

I wanted a bigger home and that is why we pulled up the stakes and went home after 17 years in SG.

there is only 1 contract for Carabelle 3bd of 1300 to 1400 sq ft since feb 2013.

Nov 13? would have expired by now?

if we take that there are some inaccuracies at URA and your unit has been classified as 1200 to 1300 sq ft despite being 1302 sq ft, then there is a Mar 2015 contract for $5k as well. which is yours?

just for the sake of comparison. a 3 bd at Park infinia was tenanted at 8.3k in aug 2013 and as we know, one unit at 7.9k as recent as Jan 2016.

[HP65]

Haha, yes, we live in barn. This would be the most luxurious barn in the world. It sure beats your claustrophobic condo in Singapore.

While I'm not staying at GCB, I'm quite happy with my little landed house. So you are making a wrong comparison by suggesting I'm staying in a condo. Even then, by what yardstick are you comparing your luxurious barn with a condo in Singapore? You see, you are an open book as you have left so much digital footprint along the way due to your loud mouth, arrogance and boastfulness which have since been exposed as just an empty shell and a pack full of lies.

Till now, you are still lying, tsk tsk. You have no idea how much we (including some of your ex-colleagues) are enjoying this comic show of yours :D

As I have said before, I can understand why you are feeling so bitter and against Singaporeans. But please reflect on your own performance. You might find some clue as to why you were kicked out of NUS.

[bargain hunter]

didn't see any significant losses to report again:

Parvis


Sold 1 MAR 2016 12 HOLLAND HILL #XX-XX 2,013sq ft 1,739psf
Bought 29 DEC 2009 1,473psf

Seems like buyers are keen for these relatively new and quite big (not as big as the barn of course) units at quantum of around $3.5m even if its at holland hill (some have mentioned that this hill has its own charm).

[teddybear]

How can crapbella be compared to Park Infinia?

I will take Park Infinia any time and any price rather than crapbella, which is in a crappy place surrounded by the poisoning chemicals and air pollutions..... I value my life much more than my money............. :panda:

The Japanese are not known to have big budget for rental anyway, so can only afford to rent Stalingrad's crappy low floor condo to feed mosquitoes and swap cockroaches and houseflies..........

Our place no Japanese............. They just can't afford!!!!!!!!! :beaten:



there is only 1 contract for Carabelle 3bd of 1300 to 1400 sq ft since feb 2013.

Nov 13? would have expired by now?

if we take that there are some inaccuracies at URA and your unit has been classified as 1200 to 1300 sq ft despite being 1302 sq ft, then there is a Mar 2015 contract for $5k as well. which is yours?

just for the sake of comparison. a 3 bd at Park infinia was tenanted at 8.3k in aug 2013 and as we know, one unit at 7.9k as recent as Jan 2016.

[stalingrad]

there is only 1 contract for Carabelle 3bd of 1300 to 1400 sq ft since feb 2013.

Nov 13? would have expired by now?

if we take that there are some inaccuracies at URA and your unit has been classified as 1200 to 1300 sq ft despite being 1302 sq ft, then there is a Mar 2015 contract for $5k as well. which is yours?

just for the sake of comparison. a 3 bd at Park infinia was tenanted at 8.3k in aug 2013 and as we know, one unit at 7.9k as recent as Jan 2016.

Our contract was signed in Nov. 2013 and Nov. 2015. I am not sure how it is classified. But the actual square footage is 1,302.

[stalingrad]

While I'm not staying at GCB, I'm quite happy with my little landed house. So you are making a wrong comparison by suggesting I'm staying in a condo. Even then, by what yardstick are you comparing your luxurious barn with a condo in Singapore? You see, you are an open book as you have left so much digital footprint along the way due to your loud mouth, arrogance and boastfulness which have since been exposed as just an empty shell and a pack full of lies.

Till now, you are still lying, tsk tsk. You have no idea how much we (including some of your ex-colleagues) are enjoying this comic show of yours :D

As I have said before, I can understand why you are feeling so bitter and against Singaporeans. But please reflect on your own performance. You might find some clue as to why you were kicked out of NUS.

Relax, take a deep breath and you will feel better. Something wrong with your life. Why so serious and pugnacious?

[stalingrad]

How can crapbella be compared to Park Infinia?

I will take Park Infinia any time and any price rather than crapbella, which is in a crappy place surrounded by the poisoning chemicals and air pollutions..... I value my life much more than my money............. :panda:

The Japanese are not known to have big budget for rental anyway, so can only afford to rent Stalingrad's crappy low floor condo to feed mosquitoes and swap cockroaches and houseflies..........

Our place no Japanese............. They just can't afford!!!!!!!!! :beaten:

One email to offend three groups of people, the poor, the Japanese, and those who know the truth. Carabelle and its neighborhood is the only only area with no reported cases of dengue fever in Singapore.

[teddybear]

Very funny, "the only area with no reported cases of dengue fever"???
Think you never read the news!
Rather, you have no access to Singapore news, so don't anyhow talk nonsense! :cat:


One email to offend three groups of people, the poor, the Japanese, and those who know the truth. Carabelle and its neighborhood is the only only area with no reported cases of dengue fever in Singapore.

[stalingrad]

I took a screen shot of your comments and forwarded to your ex-colleagues and they just shake their head in disbelief that you still did not learn from your mistakes.

You are just all too arrogant or maybe ignorant/ naive and left too many digital footprints, with all your racist and discriminatory comments about Singaporeans and lack of respect for your adopted country. Worse, all you could rebut is to suggest the ease (for you at least, but probably due to your incompetence to earn more in Singapore) of amassing material possessions overseas for reasons to leave Singapore? No wonder you had such a miserable time in NUS, being pass over for promotion by real talent (both foreign and local). You know what's your bigger problem besides your incompetency? It's your blindness to your incompetency :D

So we are not petty minded nor vindictive. We just want to highlight foreign trash like you and to remind those who remain in Singapore better be careful with their performance or they too would be shipped out. I did my part by reminding my HR to hire the right talent and perform full reference check so that I do not waste resources hiring and firing scumbags like you. Thankfully, there aren't many in my firm.

Do whatever you want. I can only snicker when I read your posts. I admire God for being able to create so many kinds of creatures on our planet earth.

[teddybear]

Strange indeed!
Bargain Hunter cannot find your rental contract recorded at URA! Why?


Our contract was signed in Nov. 2013 and Nov. 2015. I am not sure how it is classified. But the actual square footage is 1,302.

[stalingrad]

While I'm not staying at GCB, I'm quite happy with my little landed house. So you are making a wrong comparison by suggesting I'm staying in a condo. Even then, by what yardstick are you comparing your luxurious barn with a condo in Singapore? You see, you are an open book as you have left so much digital footprint along the way due to your loud mouth, arrogance and boastfulness which have since been exposed as just an empty shell and a pack full of lies.

Till now, you are still lying, tsk tsk. You have no idea how much we (including some of your ex-colleagues) are enjoying this comic show of yours :D

As I have said before, I can understand why you are feeling so bitter and against Singaporeans. But please reflect on your own performance. You might find some clue as to why you were kicked out of NUS.

Good for you. Stay in your landed properties. By the way, where I live, it is really no big deal to live in landed properties. Most people own two or three landed properties because they are so cheap.

BTW, you can see I am much relaxed now than before and take your insults and vulgarities in equanimity. You know why? Because I live in paradise and when you live in paradise, you gain better perspective and nothing matters.

[stalingrad]

Strange indeed!
Bargain Hunter cannot find your rental contract recorded at URA! Why?

God knows I am not lying. And you can snoop around as much as you want. It doesn't bother me one bit.

Ask yourself, why would he lie? He doesn't live in Singapore, he doesn't know us personally, and he has nothing to gain by lying.

I am posting messages only for fun. I have told the truth, and whether you guys believe me or not is immaterial to me. Singapore for me is just a place on earth. I stayed there before, and I was caught up in its competitive and elitist culture, but now I am out and I am glad I am out.

[Kelonguni]

Please check that the tenant had the lease stamped.

It's illegal otherwise.

What you have posted testifies to the strong draw of rental demand in Singapore actually, a testament to its successful policies in many areas. Other things are immaterial. The Govt does allow for the possibility of people to retire elsewhere with revenue generating properties here.

You are a beneficiary, and I wish you well.


Our contract was signed in Nov. 2013 and Nov. 2015. I am not sure how it is classified. But the actual square footage is 1,302.

[Spincity1]

Bargain hunter,

Didn't we have a bet about whether Carabelle or Parc Emily would register greater price appreciation back in 2009 or 2010?

I read on another thread that at 3-bedder at Parc Emily has been rented out recently for $4,100. My Carabelle unit was on the first contract extension for two more years and the rental rate per year is $5,000.

Just to let you and Teddy know.

Information from URA:
Between Oct 15 to Nov 15, there were 4 3-bedroom units ranging from 1200 sqft to 1300 sqft at Parc Emily leased out at $4700 to $6400 ($3.8 tp $5.1psf)
I am not sure what you talked about, both the 4100 per month at Parc Emily, and the $5000 per month for your Carabelle unit

[proud owner]

Information from URA:
Between Oct 15 to Nov 15, there were 4 3-bedroom units ranging from 1200 sqft to 1300 sqft at Parc Emily leased out at $4700 to $6400 ($3.8 tp $5.1psf)
I am not sure what you talked about, both the 4100 per month at Parc Emily, and the $5000 per month for your Carabelle unit

The 4.1k rental at Parc Emily was reported in Edge ...

just not sure which mth it was signed...

[proud owner]

Please check that the tenant had the lease stamped.

It's illegal otherwise.

What you have posted testifies to the strong draw of rental demand in Singapore actually, a testament to its successful policies in many areas. Other things are immaterial. The Govt does allow for the possibility of people to retire elsewhere with revenue generating properties here.

You are a beneficiary, and I wish you well.


Please correct me if i am wrong.

It is Not against the law NOT TO STAMP a TA...

If it is not stamped, if ever something goes wrong and go to court, a UNSTAMPED TA cannot be used as evidence, thats all.

So to stamp it, is to protect the tenant himself, hence stamping fee is paid by tenant.

[Spincity1]

Good for you. Stay in your landed properties. By the way, where I live, it is really no big deal to live in landed properties. Most people own two or three landed properties because they are so cheap.

BTW, you can see I am much relaxed now than before and take your insults and vulgarities in equanimity. You know why? Because I live in paradise and when you live in paradise, you gain better perspective and nothing matters.

Only after 17 years in SG you realized that your home is paradise? You really have wasted 17 years if what you said is genuine

Anyway, it's good for you that finally you've found your paradise after all these years, and you are much more relaxed, and maybe feel more valued and safe as you need not worry about your resident status anymore, and you must be qualified for social welfare there, too.

[stalingrad]

Why is there so much vitriol in Singapore? People just write offensive remarks against strangers for no obvious reasons. You guys need to see a shrink.

[bargain hunter]

Our contract was signed in Nov. 2013 and Nov. 2015. I am not sure how it is classified. But the actual square footage is 1,302.

ok, so yours is 5k in nov 13 and 4.9k in nov 15?

[Kelonguni]

But actually stamping just pay money only.

If not stamped then just register with ura can already?

Thanks for correcting.


Please correct me if i am wrong.

It is Not against the law NOT TO STAMP a TA...

If it is not stamped, if ever something goes wrong and go to court, a UNSTAMPED TA cannot be used as evidence, thats all.

So to stamp it, is to protect the tenant himself, hence stamping fee is paid by tenant.

[Spincity1]

Why is there so much vitriol in Singapore? People just write offensive remarks against strangers for no obvious reasons. You guys need to see a shrink.

why do people living in paradise sound so bitter and sour? it must be for obvious reason so no need to see a shrink; just move on!

[Kelonguni]

No offence against you actually at least for me.

I was just pointing out potential pitfalls and also support your decision to rent out Singapore property while seeking larger environment. Mildly envious even.

But if employment is here, surely we can't live there right?


Why is there so much vitriol in Singapore? People just write offensive remarks against strangers for no obvious reasons. You guys need to see a shrink.

[martialsin]

Please correct me if i am wrong.

It is Not against the law NOT TO STAMP a TA...

If it is not stamped, if ever something goes wrong and go to court, a UNSTAMPED TA cannot be used as evidence, thats all.

So to stamp it, is to protect the tenant himself, hence stamping fee is paid by tenant.

just pay the late stamping penalty

[martialsin]

But actually stamping just pay money only.

If not stamped then just register with ura can already?

Thanks for correcting.

Wrong. Stamping is revenue and comes under IRAS. Got nothing to do with URA

[Kelonguni]

Wrong. Stamping is revenue and comes under IRAS. Got nothing to do with URA

OK I was just brainstorming why the transaction could have been not captured in URA. In this case, it was possibly captured as $4,900 transaction.

My mistake.

[teddybear]

Then it stil does not tally since Stalingrad said his rental contract is for $5,000 pm.
So either it has not been captured or he is not telling the truth? :panda:

Regarding stamping of rental contract I also got confused now.
If not stamped, is it an offence for tenant or it just means tenant not protected when there is dispute because contract not recognized and not enforceable?
Any lawyer here to help clarify? merci!


OK I was just brainstorming why the transaction could have been not captured in URA. In this case, it was possibly captured as $4,900 transaction.

My mistake.

[Kelonguni]

Actually I also got confused by the replies here.

According to IRAS, it is an offence not to stamp documents.

Of course there are other issues like inadmissible in court documents, including tenancy agreements or renewal.

If you haven't done so, please do it. I would rather pay it or at least make sure the tenant is aware that the documents need to be stamped or e-stamped. Not sure if the following only applies to businesses or all, so any informed persons please advise.

https://www.iras.gov.sg/IRASHome/uploadedFiles/IRASHome/Businesses/ERA%20Seminar%20on%2003%20April%202013%20-%20Stamp%20Dutys.pdf




Then it stil does not tally since Stalingrad said his rental contract is for $5,000 pm.
So either it has not been captured or he is not telling the truth? :panda:

Regarding stamping of rental contract I also got confused now.
If not stamped, is it an offence for tenant or it just means tenant not protected when there is dispute because contract not recognized and not enforceable?
Any lawyer here to help clarify? merci!

[Sandiwara]

Does not matter where we leave as long as hour heart is happy. No such thing that one country is good in everything compare to other country. Both will have its strong point and its weakness.

[bargain hunter]

Martin Place

Sold 24 FEB 2016 6 MARTIN PLACE #XX-XX 1,894sq ft 1,768psf
Bought 18 NOV 2011 1,950psf

low floor but nonetheless a bargain. while stocks last.

[teddybear]

May be their "paradise" is FREEZING COLDddddddddddddd to the extent of being unbearable?.............. :chargrined:


why do people living in paradise sound so bitter and sour? it must be for obvious reason so no need to see a shrink; just move on!