View Full Version : End of Mickey Mouse (MM)?
By Andrew Batt (courtesy of PropertyGuru)
With the prospect of a drop in property prices looming large on the horizon, Singapore banks are already tightening their lending criteria. Prospective buyers of so called shoe-box units are already discovering that access to funding is proving to be a challenge.
PropertyGuru understands that at least one bank in Singapore is now declining all finance applications for properties (http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/) under 500 sq ft in size — the generally recognised measure for shoe-box units in Singapore. Other banks remained tight-lipped about their individual policies and declined to comment on the record when contacted by PropertyGuru.
An employee of CIMB who declined to be named told PropertyGuru that financing for shoe-box units (http://www.loanguru.com.sg/) is simply no longer being offered. "It's just too risky right now" he said, adding that he understands most banks are not even considering applications from individuals with a substantial deposit and perfect credit history.
For Getty Goh, whose company Ascendant Assets released research about Singapore's shoe-box property market late last year, this news was expected. He said, "It doesn't come as a surprise that banks are slowing down on their lending, especially when the economic outlook for the next few months remains highly volatile."
Why are banks deeming these smaller units to be more risky that other parts of the property sector? Goh believes the answer is simple.
He said: "It's because some shoebox units are asking for unsustainably high per-square-foot prices. In light of the impending property market (http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/market-news) slowdown, these high priced units will be the first to be affected by any drop in valuation. This drop in asset valuation will, in turn, affect the banks — especially when the value of the collateral is significantly less than the loan."
Arun Mambully, director of research and editorial at The Asian Banker, echoed Goh's comments. He told PropertyGuru, "The prospects of lower economic growth in Singapore for 2012 coupled with macroeconomic uncertainties are pushing banks to focus on the quality of their asset base. This same trend is reflected in banks globally, as we can see European banks stashing away excess liquidity with central banks across the globe. Add the rise of property price index to this mix, and you get all the ingredients necessary for banks to pull back lending to riskier asset classes."
Buyers of these smaller properties are typically investors, and unlike those properties which are purchased for owner occupation, the risk of the buyer defaulting is much higher. Buyers of shoe-box units also rely heavily on the rental market to repay their financing, and this will also be impacted during any prolonged slowdown.
Goh added, "Banks are ultimately in the business of making money through lending money. The last thing they want is to see their loans go bad. Any rational and responsible bank would naturally not want to make risky loans - especially when the market outlook has become highly uncertain."
Andrew Batt is Regional Group Editor at PropertyGuru.
Nothing new, most non-local banks do not finance MM units...
Jonathan0503
25-02-12, 13:29
Too much generalization.
Blame game. This is obviously agenda fueled writing. So responsible...
dbs ocbc uob no problem...can loan if cannot pay...they come to ur mm and write owe $ pay $......:D:scared-1::scared-4::cheers5:
nvr trust asslysts. they always thrust u. cheers!
nvr trust asslysts. they always thrust u. cheers!
anal-ysts will anal you till u bleed lor...
phantom_opera
25-02-12, 13:59
Geylang MMs perhaps ...
FEO Watertown 520sqft ok wat ... I am sure Bartley Residences 4XXqft many banks also willing to fund ... what is the problem? No Problema :cheers5:
ikan bilis
25-02-12, 14:19
die-lah, they let the cats out liow... all mickey mouse please go hiding hor... :cutedoggy: :cutedoggy:
haha... i bet bank will still provide loans for MM... but may be very soon bank valuation falls below developer's discounted price... sekali max S$1Kpsf... and there will be "COV" for MM.... :D:D
Geylang MMs perhaps ...
FEO Watertown 520sqft ok wat ... I am sure Bartley Residences 4XXqft many banks also willing to fund ... what is the problem? No Problema :cheers5:
Can take loan fund at buy, later wan to refinance is a problem, but then it's low quantum amount so unlikely to refinance actually. Therefore the bank lock you in.
Just build 1+1 520sqft < then it's out of MM classification...haha
Difference between mm & 2 bedders is abt on average $300psf. Will this gap widen?
ikan bilis
25-02-12, 16:15
Difference between mm & 2 bedders is abt on average $300psf. Will this gap widen?
haha.... no lah... the "psf gap" will get narrower bcoz 2bdr is shrinking in size towards 35sqm.... when both mm & 2bdr are at 35sqm... psf for 2bdr will even be slightly higher... :D :D
haha.... no lah... the "psf gap" will get narrower bcoz 2bdr is shrinking in size towards 35sqm.... when both mm & 2bdr are at 35sqm... psf for 2bdr will even be slightly higher... :D :D
3 bedders will become 700+ sqft & 4 bedders become 900 sqft.:D
Just build 1+1 520sqft < then it's out of MM classification...haha
Correct. Behold the proliferation of dual key MMs (258sf + 258sf).
BTW, 258sf is the smallest MM record in Singapore to date...
3 bedders will become 700+ sqft & 4 bedders become 900 sqft.:D
OCR 99LH
MM - 350sqft - 599k
1 BR - 450sqft - 699k
2 BR - 550sqft - 799k
3 BR - 750sqft - 999k
4 BR - 1000sqft - 1199k
:D
3 bedders will become 700+ sqft & 4 bedders become 900 sqft.:DOh man!.... :doh:
why are the banks worried.:beats-me-man:
With 40% downpayment for 2nd property... the bank's risk are minimal.... unless mr b is right....:scared-1:
why are the banks worried.:beats-me-man:
With 40% downpayment for 2nd property... the bank's risk are minimal.... unless mr b is right....:scared-1:Right about?
I have a totally different opinion about all these.
The current observation is that the local banks are offering better interest rates than foreign banks. This is actually a fact.
Why so?
It would be easier to imagine that the local banks are "in need of business" and in such "hard times", they are more ready to take up any business. And yet, they turn away financing some small units....(?)
The Singapore leaders are not rash or incompetent, and certainly not clueless about what they are doing. If I were a guru and predicting that Europe and Japan (and perhaps even USA, again) will print more money to tide things over the next 2 years, I will be building a dam here to prepare for the flood of cash coming this way. How will I build such a dam? I will build 2 different dams. One will be to increase the tax of a foreigner buying properties in Singapore (hence the additional stamp duty for purchasing, but not for selling). The other will be to increase my client pool - the more loans I get the better, and preferably from bigger apartments because the quantum is higher. That way, when the interest rate goes up, I will make a significant amount of profit.
devilplate
25-02-12, 22:40
Dbs seems to hf cash surplus tats y aggressive for their mortgage rates?
Scb and maybank offering highest rate and promotions for cash deposit.....
phantom_opera
26-02-12, 08:33
those who borrowed at super low rate all along are taking advantage of those who saved ... if Fed continues to push forward 0% interest rate in the US past 2014... very soon ... many depositors will cry father cry mother ... PAP will need to do something at next election ... :scared-4:
imo, low interest rate will last for 10y i.e. from 2009 to 2019
though hdb cov has stabilized .. seems like buyers are back into the market after a nice stock market run-up :)
for condos ... asking prices of 1br has softened in ocr as nowadays almost every OCR or RCR project will have a large number of 4xxsqf / 500sqft 1br flooding the market ... 1.2kpsf seems to be the sweet spot near MRT
those who borrowed at super low rate all along are taking advantage of those who saved ... if Fed continues to push forward 0% interest rate in the US past 2014... very soon ... many depositors will cry father cry mother ... PAP will need to do something at next election ... :scared-4:
imo, low interest rate will last for 10y i.e. from 2009 to 2019
though hdb cov has stabilized .. seems like buyers are back into the market after a nice stock market run-up :)
for condos ... asking prices of 1br has softened in ocr as nowadays almost every OCR or RCR project will have a large number of 4xxsqf / 500sqft 1br flooding the market ... 1.2kpsf seems to be the sweet spot near MRT
how low is this rate for this 10 yr??
those who borrowed at super low rate all along are taking advantage of those who saved ... if Fed continues to push forward 0% interest rate in the US past 2014... very soon ... many depositors will cry father cry mother ... PAP will need to do something at next election ... :scared-4:
imo, low interest rate will last for 10y i.e. from 2009 to 2019
though hdb cov has stabilized .. seems like buyers are back into the market after a nice stock market run-up :)
for condos ... asking prices of 1br has softened in ocr as nowadays almost every OCR or RCR project will have a large number of 4xxsqf / 500sqft 1br flooding the market ... 1.2kpsf seems to be the sweet spot near MRT
You see, this is where I don't understand again.
The ones screaming, jumping, crying over the escalating home prices are the ones intending to buy HDB units, correct? We have not seen reports of them complaining to the government that the condo/landed home prices are beyond their reach and that they should do something.
But the corrective measures implemented so far are targeted more at the condo. How will that resolve the HDB situation? It is like asking the wealthy woman to pay more for her beauty products because her less-wealthy cousin needs cheaper soap.
What needs to be done is to make that soap cheaper, ie, to bring down the price of HDBs first. To do that, I feel that the authorities need to review how to discourage HDB home owners to sell at a high price. This means removing the COV, and also to consider asking those who have received the government housing subsidy when they bought the first flat, to refund this money to the national coffers in full. Afterall, this money was from the general taxpayers and should be shared by all (not given only to these people to make profit later on). Those who are selling because they are downgrading to a smaller/cheaper unit should then be given special consideration on a case-by-case basis. Perhaps this will reduce the demand for flats overall and bring down the prices.
No reuters, the ones complaining the most are those aspiring to own a condo, not HDB. Every one can afford a BTO HDB. It's the next step, that to upgrade to condo, "seems" difficult. We have a live example in this very forum, where some members propose gov to restrict foreign buying of units above 1m only, and let him buy his RCR condo with 1m. " let foreigners speculate on multi million ptys in orchard for all I care, but gov must allow me to buy this at 1m etc"
And mind you , this group is not small. This basically describes all Gen Y who had bought new HDB from gov as the 1st home. And now as MOP over, time to upgrade, and he suddenly found 200k is not enough to get his dream condo.
And btw this means mini houses will prosper because this group really want it. 600 sqft 3bd is common in HK. It will come soon.
devilplate
26-02-12, 10:05
No reuters, the ones complaining the most are those aspiring to own a condo, not HDB. Every one can afford a BTO HDB. It's the next step, that to upgrade to condo, "seems" difficult. We have a live example in this very forum, where some members propose gov to restrict foreign buying of units above 1m only, and let him buy his RCR condo with 1m. " let foreigners speculate on multi million ptys in orchard for all I care, but gov must allow me to buy this at 1m etc"
And mind you , this group is not small. This basically describes all Gen Y who had bought new HDB from gov as the 1st home. And now as MOP over, time to upgrade, and he suddenly found 200k is not enough to get his dream condo.
And btw this means mini houses will prosper because this group really want it. 600 sqft 3bd is common in HK. It will come soon.
So u r saying mm got potential ar? Hehehe
New hdb estate has improved alot over the yrs....the design....landscaping etc had improved tremendously and i seriously do not think mini 3bdr will be popular leh....
Hk different leh bcoz they dun haf a choice like hdb lor....
However if wat u said come true, den at least older projects got higher chance to get enbloc lor....lol
I think he doesn't mean the general MM which is <500 sqft, may be more 2BR-MMs of size about 600+ sqft and 3BR-MMs of size about 700+ sqft? Wow! Aren't those built for dwarfs and Mickey-mouses instead of humans? And mine you, the new condos you have to deduct 20% from the specified size to derive the liveable area! Those means only usable 480+ sqft and 560+ sqft for 2BRs and 3BRs, half of those old resale condos! :banghead:
So u r saying mm got potential ar? Hehehe
New hdb estate has improved alot over the yrs....the design....landscaping etc had improved tremendously and i seriously do not think mini 3bdr will be popular leh....
Hk different leh bcoz they dun haf a choice like hdb lor....
However if wat u said come true, den at least older projects got higher chance to get enbloc lor....lol
I think he doesn't mean the general MM which is <500 sqft, may be more 2BR-MMs of size about 600+ sqft and 3BR-MMs of size about 700+ sqft? Wow! Aren't those built for dwarfs and Mickey-mouses instead of humans? And mine you, the new condos you have to deduct 20% from the specified size to derive the liveable area! Those means only usable 480+ sqft and 560+ sqft for 2BRs and 3BRs, half of those old resale condos! :banghead:
Too small for mice but should be just nice for furry huggy tedddy bear right? :P
Jokes aside, one must not ignore that new projects are usually better designed in terms of layout la... (notwithstanding those XL AC ledge types of course)
You see, this is where I don't understand again.
The ones screaming, jumping, crying over the escalating home prices are the ones intending to buy HDB units, correct? We have not seen reports of them complaining to the government that the condo/landed home prices are beyond their reach and that they should do something.
But the corrective measures implemented so far are targeted more at the condo. How will that resolve the HDB situation? It is like asking the wealthy woman to pay more for her beauty products because her less-wealthy cousin needs cheaper soap.
You forgot the impact of supply and demand. While the price of soap can be stagnant for years, regardless of the demand, the prices of homes fluctuates depending on the demand. CCR caps RCR and OCR which in turn cap EC. EC will cap HDB resale and BTO. Govt recognised that they can't do too much in the public sector otherwise they'll lose 2 more GRC in next GE so no choice they operate from private sector lor... but yes I agree that their policies probably need further fine tuning.
What needs to be done is to make that soap cheaper, ie, to bring down the price of HDBs first. To do that, I feel that the authorities need to review how to discourage HDB home owners to sell at a high price. This means removing the COV, and also to consider asking those who have received the government housing subsidy when they bought the first flat, to refund this money to the national coffers in full. Afterall, this money was from the general taxpayers and should be shared by all (not given only to these people to make profit later on). Those who are selling because they are downgrading to a smaller/cheaper unit should then be given special consideration on a case-by-case basis. Perhaps this will reduce the demand for flats overall and bring down the prices.COV is merely a nice acronym to replace the bidding exercise. Two person comes to buy a TV from you. One of them meets your asking price of $1000 but the other is willing to pay $1500 for that TV. Being a free market, I will definitely sell to him who offers $1500. :cheers1: Removing COV merely makes transactions less transparent. However, I do agree that probably sellers of HDB should return the subsidy they received from govt. Govt should then channel this to fund other BTO projects. This would in turn sustain future BTO projects and so keep cost of new BTO at super low price? $150k for an EA in Toa Payoh, anybody? :cheers5:
And mind you , this group is not small. This basically describes all Gen Y who had bought new HDB from gov as the 1st home. And now as MOP over, time to upgrade, and he suddenly found 200k is not enough to get his dream condo.
And btw this means mini houses will prosper because this group really want it. 600 sqft 3bd is common in HK. It will come soon.
Nevermind if the jeans is too tight until cannot breath... as long as it is designer label. If other people have, I also must have... I deserve it... you owe it to me...
Those in RED is interesting policy. This give me an idea of how to resolve the high manpower costs in Singapore and to increase Singapore's competitive edge! The solution is to cap our PM pay to $100k per year! Then, all super-scale civil servants will get only $50k per year. So, all fresh university graduates will get $12k per year. Wow! We immediately resolve all the high manpower costs and low efficiency and competitive edge problem, starting from the civil service (being 1 of the largest employer, if not the largest, in Singapore) and will propogate to private sectors! We should also slap 90% tax on anybody who earn more than the PM, i.e. $100k per year! :p
This way, we also provide huge increase to govt reserves that can be used to help the really poor! Then, nobody will argue anymore just to increase $30 aid per month to the really needy! :hell-hath-no-fury:
You forgot the impact of supply and demand. While the price of soap can be stagnant for years, regardless of the demand, the prices of homes fluctuates depending on the demand. CCR caps RCR and OCR which in turn cap EC. EC will cap HDB resale and BTO. Govt recognised that they can't do too much in the public sector otherwise they'll lose 2 more GRC in next GE so no choice they operate from private sector lor... but yes I agree that their policies probably need further fine tuning.
COV is merely a nice acronym to replace the bidding exercise. Two person comes to buy a TV from you. One of them meets your asking price of $1000 but the other is willing to pay $1500 for that TV. Being a free market, I will definitely sell to him who offers $1500. :cheers1: Removing COV merely makes transactions less transparent. However, I do agree that probably sellers of HDB should return the subsidy they received from govt. Govt should then channel this to fund other BTO projects. This would in turn sustain future BTO projects and so keep cost of new BTO at super low price? $150k for an EA in Toa Payoh, anybody? :cheers5:
Nevermind if the jeans is too tight until cannot breath... as long as it is designer label. If other people have, I also must have... I deserve it... you owe it to me...
And I need to buy it at a discount...that uncle work 15 years before he can afford his first condo? I am more capable... why do I need to wait?
And l need a BMW to match... why is the COE so high?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Wats the problem? the developer chop the Carrots. When times turn bad the bank can cook the carrots ;)
In the end it take 2 hands to clap. Willing seller many willing buyers. So no 1 to blame and no problem wat?
Wats the problem? the developer chop the Carrots. When times turn bad the bank can cook the carrots ;)
In the end it take 2 hands to clap. Willing seller many willing buyers. So no 1 to blame and no problem wat?
It takes the banks to support the valuation for these sky high prices. if they are not comfortable with high prices, stop supporting them!
How can they now say that they are afraid that the prices are too high now!:simmering:
Bank dont lend ah.. Go AH LONG lor so many legal ah long theses days.
But MM must buy how small also must buy. 5 room in 400sqf also can. as long cheap and got Mall n mrt ;)
It takes the banks to support the valuation for these sky high prices. if they are not comfortable with high prices, stop supporting them!
How can they now say that they are afraid that the prices are too high now!:simmering:
Its ok lah. 60% max loan then. Drop below 40% sell the MM as store rooms. Still got residue value mah.
Think govt should also give below to satisfy the young so that they will not complain other than high private property prices?:
1) free medical for all
2) jobless benefits for all
3) They can retire at age 45 years old to smell the roses and sip the wine on their balcony of their private condo with sea-view with nice swimming pool, gym, tennis court, etc, can go holidays 2 times a year, each time for 2 weeks...
4) No less than a Mercedes S500 or BMW745?
5) ...(more)... :p
And I need to buy it at a discount...that uncle work 15 years before he can afford his first condo? I am more capable... why do I need to wait?
And l need a BMW to match... why is the COE so high?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Bank dont lend ah.. Go AH LONG lor so many legal ah long theses days.
But MM must buy how small also must buy. 5 room in 400sqf also can. as long cheap and got Mall n mrt ;)
Haha u still pretty sore by WT sales. Or is it my previous remarks that hurts you?
Still cannot get over? :D
Yep... agree that banks are culpable too. With 60% LTV, banks feel pretty insulated and therefore has become more liberable with the financing. They are in cahoots with developers to support the rising prices.
It takes the banks to support the valuation for these sky high prices. if they are not comfortable with high prices, stop supporting them!
How can they now say that they are afraid that the prices are too high now!:simmering:
Haha u still pretty sore by WT sales. Or is it my previous remarks that hurts you?
Still cannot get over? :D
why u so sensitive ? Like whole singapore only ur WT have mall, MRT meh?
why u so sensitive ? Like whole singapore only ur WT have mall, MRT meh?
Must hv bothered u deeply. Lol :D
Must hv bothered u deeply. Lol :D
Bro. Go get a life!
Bro. Go get a life!
U seriously need one :D
U seriously need one :D
Go plant ur carrot farm while WT take ages to build. Enough for u to eat carrot for the next few yrs.
Go plant ur carrot farm while WT take ages to build. Enough for u to eat carrot for the next few yrs.
Haha, feeling hurt again? :doh:
Must be painful.
Haha, feeling hurt again? :doh:
Must be painful.
Bo Liao. Why u so free hijack other pple thread. Go back to ur WT thread.
Bo Liao. Why u so free hijack other pple thread. Go back to ur WT thread.
Long time no disturb u Liao.
Kinda pay u a visit. :tongue3:
Long time no disturb u Liao.
Kinda pay u a visit. :tongue3:
Yeah like 7mth ghost right.?
Yeah like 7mth ghost right.?
Something like that.
Y so hostile? :beats-me-man:
Go plant ur carrot farm while WT take ages to build. Enough for u to eat carrot for the next few yrs.
I do agree on this point. WT gonna take 5 years to build, the returns may not be as good as investing in a TOP soon project.
Wats the problem? the developer chop the Carrots. When times turn bad the bank can cook the carrots ;)
?
Great insights! Very True indeed.
Something like that.
Y so hostile? :beats-me-man:
Me not hostile u so defensive. :)
Anyway not to get off topic. Frankly I don't agree with developers building super MM all over . I the end will impact Sgpean. Yes many pple say HK is like that. Don't mean that's wat we want. I don't agre going that direction. One thing diff Sgp n HK Is for now the goverment control HDB so luckily that set the base line for smallest units.
HK are dominated by the few large private developed out to make $$$. Spoke to my hk friend they hates it.
We still have a choice. No to MM. N govermeny should have a min size for apt.
devilplate
26-02-12, 17:39
Too early to say whether mm will stay anot.....so far those mm projects tat had oredi TOPed manage to secure tenants pretty easily....366sqft also got tenant pay 2.2-2.5k for them....lol
Wait till more mm supply coming online and access from there again.....
So when there is little rental demand for mm in future, naturally prices of mm will start to slide as i believe mm price r primarily supported by rental yield now...
Too early to say whether mm will stay anot.....so far those mm projects tat had oredi TOPed manage to secure tenants pretty easily....366sqft also got tenant pay 2.2-2.5k for them....lol
Wait till more mm supply coming online and access from there again.....
So when there is little rental demand for mm in future, naturally prices of mm will start to slide as i believe mm price r primarily supported by rental yield now...
Rental yield regardless, if MM continues to be the lowest priced Private property asset class (due to absolute quantum), it will still be relevant and sell well.
Great insights! Very True indeed.
Y still buy Parc rosewood mm? Esp at such location? Never looked at TOPed project?
Me not hostile u so defensive. :)
Long time no see, now got people praise u already.
Whahaha.
Friendly a bit lah. :D
Rental yield regardless, if MM continues to be the lowest priced Private property asset class (due to absolute quantum), it will still be relevant and sell well.
Geylang mm got potential? Attracted to the price and location.
I drove to gullimard edge this morning at lorong 30.
But lorong 28 sleazy business as usually leh.
Just One lane away.
Long time no see, now got people praise u already.
Whahaha.
Friendly a bit lah. :D
I m always friendly ;)
Geylang mm got potential? Attracted to the price and location.
I drove to gullimard edge this morning at lorong 30.
But lorong 28 sleazy business as usually leh.
Just One lane away.
Those potential rental yield good. Coz supported by special tenant.
Those potential rental yield good. Coz supported by special tenant.
Ya, target for special tenants only. Normal family, normal couples would not want to stay one street away from sleazy business.
But if far far away from red light district, waterina that side seems to be worth considering.
I do agree on this point. WT gonna take 5 years to build, the returns may not be as good as investing in a TOP soon project.
People sell off Project before or during TOP because they want to pocket in capital gain.
Now u saying buy back from them for investment wouldn't it like going back to square one?
In the first place, why are there many people still selling off their to be TOPed project then? They might as well keep it and hold tight tight?
People sell off Project before or during TOP because they want to pocket in capital gain.
Now u saying buy back from them for investment wouldn't it like going back to square one?
In the first place, why are there many people still selling off their to be TOPed project then? They might as well keep it and hold tight tight?
TOP soon projects doesnt mean sub sale. It can be anything thats faster than 5 years.
TOP soon projects doesnt mean sub sale. It can be anything thats faster than 5 years.
But these projects after some years still not sold out would mean left over units lousy facing or project not highly sought after. Still worth buying?
devilplate
26-02-12, 22:02
People sell off Project before or during TOP because they want to pocket in capital gain.
Now u saying buy back from them for investment wouldn't it like going back to square one?
In the first place, why are there many people still selling off their to be TOPed project then? They might as well keep it and hold tight tight?
If subsale is cheaper den nrby new launches...y not? Like dbr vs MManhatten
Geylang mm got potential? Attracted to the price and location.
I drove to gullimard edge this morning at lorong 30.
But lorong 28 sleazy business as usually leh.
Just One lane away.
Lor 30 whole stretch got lots of new projects. I doubt the sleaze will crowd there...
But these projects after some years still not sold out would mean left over units lousy facing or project not highly sought after. Still worth buying?
Depends. if rental yield is good why not? Total rental yield for 5 years + potential capital gain may be better than capital gain after TOP.
Lor 30 whole stretch got lots of new projects. I doubt the sleaze will crowd there...
Hard to say, many pubs outside of 28 and 30
devilplate
27-02-12, 09:00
some single ang mor expats may love to rent geylang studios....everything so convenient
some single ang mor expats may love to rent geylang studios....everything so convenient
So which are the ones that has potential in your POV? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
devilplate
27-02-12, 09:41
So which are the ones that has potential in your POV? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
i said some angmor hor....very niche tenant pool lor BUT so many supply of MM in geylang there now....so wat u say? lol
and when wana sell later can only attract investors......
1mm in geylang abt 400k still can buy.....just hoping rental of 1.8-2k shd be achievable
now buy old old hdb resale 3rm flat aso can cost u 300-350k liao and rental also about 2k but cannot rent out first 5yrs
i said some angmor hor....very niche tenant pool lor BUT so many supply of MM in geylang there now....so wat u say? lol
and when wana sell later can only attract investors......
1mm in geylang abt 400k still can buy.....just hoping rental of 1.8-2k shd be achievable
now buy old old hdb resale 3rm flat aso can cost u 300-350k liao and rental also about 2k but cannot rent out first 5yrs
3rm flat these days cost so much?? :scared-5:
devilplate
27-02-12, 09:59
3rm flat these days cost so much?? :scared-5:
for eg commonwealth old old 3rm flat now averagely 320k.....it was 160k in early 2007....LOL
3rm flat these days cost so much?? :scared-5:
yes..
i notice the price is like
3rm - 300k+
4rm - 400k+
5rm - 500k+
easy to remember :D
but ridiculous to me :simmering:
for eg commonwealth old old 3rm flat now averagely 320k.....it was 160k in early 2007....LOL
Wow, u already have so many PCs and your still so updated with HDBs pricing :)
devilplate
27-02-12, 10:04
Wow, u already have so many PCs and your still so updated with HDBs pricing :)
mabe those who wana sell all their PC away and scare taxman chase after them can try buy HDB......u can say HDB rules force me to sell ALL pte ppty within 6mths....wakakakaka
mabe those who wana sell all their PC away and scare taxman chase after them can try buy HDB......u can say HDB rules force me to sell ALL pte ppty within 6mths....wakakakaka
Wah... quite sad leh. buy 1 HDB let go all ur PC investment. sit and do nothing for 5 years...
devilplate
27-02-12, 10:14
Wah... quite sad leh. buy 1 HDB let go all ur PC investment. sit and do nothing for 5 years...
for those who wana time the market....but goto pray 5yrs later den market start to rebound.....LOL
for those who wana time the market....but goto pray 5yrs later den market start to rebound.....LOL
Haha.. not a bad idea eh? So are u planning on doing that? :tongue3:
for eg commonwealth old old 3rm flat now averagely 320k.....it was 160k in early 2007....LOL
I saw some below 300k potong Pasir and Jalan bahagia quite nice. Esp the latter, kitchen got windows on two perpendicular walls with full greenery view wow
Hard to say, many pubs outside of 28 and 30
Then they should actually build large units in Geylang what! Not MM? Decent single guy will get harassed for business. Decent single gal will get approached for quotation. Geylang before recently has always only have large huge sized apartments for families. It was never meant to cater to singles... I guess the assumption was these families will drive in and out and also if ever walking nearby to eat, will be walking in group...
phantom_opera
27-02-12, 10:47
Buffet is now very positive on US housing market :spliff: :
这一毁灭性的供求关系等式如今逆转了：每天新的家庭数量要多于房屋。人们可能在充满不确定的时期搁置置业，但最终荷尔蒙会接管一切。在衰退期间，一些人最初的反映可能是“暂时同居一室”，但与对方父母同居一室很快会失去吸引力。
我们目前每年建造60万个家庭房屋-远低于新家庭形成的数量-购买和租赁需求正在吸收此前遗留下的过度供给。（这一过程在美国各地已不同速率开展；不同地区的供需情形不同）。然而当这种修复发生时，我们的房地产相关企业却手忙脚乱，他们在2006年的员工数字为58769，而如今却只有43315。作为经济中至关重要的部门，它不仅包含建筑业，还包含所有对其依赖的行业，房地产业仍然在经历其自身的衰退过程中。我相信这是就业复苏远远落后于我们在经济的绝大部分行业所看到的稳固和显著的复苏的原因。
明智的货币和财政政策在缓和衰退中起到重要作用，但这些政策工具不会创造家庭，也不能消除多余的房屋。幸运的是，人口因素和我们的市场体系将会恢复所需的平衡-很可能在不久之后。当那一天来临的时候，我们的年均住宅建造量将再度达到100万栋或更多。我相信，一旦这种情形发生后，那些自命权威的人将对失业率的下降程度感到惊讶。他们将再度意识到1776年以来就一直确认的事实：美国的好日子还在前面。
I saw some below 300k potong Pasir and Jalan bahagia quite nice. Esp the latter, kitchen got windows on two perpendicular walls with full greenery view wow
I feel Potong Pasir units are undervalued now! 5 years time Sitoh gotta do something otherwise...
Which is the smallest MM you can find in SG?
258 sqft - some more got bay window
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/8367103/for-sale-suites-guillemard
ikan bilis
28-02-12, 11:52
Which is the smallest MM you can find in SG?
258 sqft - some more got bay window
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/8367103/for-sale-suites-guillemard
if i could remember correctly,... they bought at around 360k?? :D
if i could remember correctly,... they bought at around 360k?? :D
Based on the report last time, the size of this mm unit is basically 8 ping pong tables put together.
Based on the report last time, the size of this mm unit is basically 8 ping pong tables put together.
Splendid. This apartment will thus fit 8 x 2 PRCs.
Based on the report last time, the size of this mm unit is basically 8 ping pong tables put together.
IPad ping pong table u mean..
MM unit so cheap, rental yield so high, pple so cash rich who will wanna kill it:
Top Print Edition Stories
Published February 29, 2012
Still open to funding shoebox units: CIMB
Bank denies report that it has stopped approving loans for tiny residential units
By CONRAD TAN
(SINGAPORE) CIMB Bank has denied cutting off financing for buyers of small homes here, after a report suggested that it had stopped approving new mortgages for so-called shoebox apartments because they were too risky.
Risk factor: CIMB uses a broad range of criteria to assess credit risk before deciding whether to grant a home loan
CIMB and various other banks BT spoke to said that they focus on buyers' ability to repay their mortgage, not the size of the home, in deciding whether to approve a home loan.
'We are still approving and financing new home loans for buyers of apartments that are less than 510 square feet in size' - the measure the bank uses for shoebox apartments, a CIMB Singapore spokesman said. 'The report that financing for shoebox units is no longer being offered by CIMB is incorrect.'
A report posted on an online news portal had claimed that CIMB was no longer approving loans for shoebox units.
Other banks, too, said that they continue to offer loans to buyers of very small homes.
'United Overseas Bank is still financing small apartment units, as the key consideration with any home loan application is the credit-worthiness of the potential customer,' said Chia Siew Cheng, head of secured loans at UOB's personal financial services division. 'In addition to the current property valuation, credit-worthiness is measured through income stability and credit records.'
OCBC Bank, too, is still financing purchases of shoebox apartments. 'This is subject to borrowers meeting our home loan criteria, which includes the individual's financial commitments, income, credit history and repayment ability, among others,' a bank spokesman said.
A DBS Group spokesman told BT that there had been no change to the bank's policy for financing purchases of shoebox units. 'The primary consideration when assessing such loans is the customer's commitment and ability to manage the repayments,' a spokesman said.
A source at a foreign bank said that it wasn't worried that the resale value of the shoebox apartments that have been launched so far would fall sharply.
Another source, at a Singapore-listed bank, said that its financing of apartments smaller than 500 square feet has held steady since the start of the year. 'The trend we are seeing, through the developers we work with, is that these smaller units remain popular and are usually the first to be snapped up in most newly launched projects,' the source said.
'We do not assess credit based on the size of the apartments but on affordability and the repayment ability of the borrower,' said Alan Lau, head of consumer banking at Maybank Singapore.
'The risk associated with property financing is not simply a function of the size of the apartment, it's also about the purpose of the purchase and the repayment ability of the borrower.'
CIMB uses a broad range of criteria to assess credit risk before deciding whether to grant a home loan, said Coreen Kwan, head of retail banking at CIMB Singapore.
'We primarily look at his Credit Bureau report, perform litigation checks and also look at his loan statements with other banks if applicable and available, and internal records if he is an existing customer.'
'We also look at his ability to repay and afford the loan. We ascertain his exposure to credit facilities and his income to cover such exposures,' she added.
'Even if a person can afford a loan, there is always a chance that he may go into default when something affecting his ability to pay happens. That is why we also ensure the loan to valuation ratio is healthy and the quality of collateral is good - that, we can determine through the valuation reports of the property.'
Which is the smallest MM you can find in SG?
258 sqft - some more got bay window
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/8367103/for-sale-suites-guillemard
This is the worst.! URA should ban them.!
devilplate
29-02-12, 08:52
This is the worst.! URA should ban them.!
oredi banned i tink
oredi banned i tink
There was some rules set out right ? or was that only for the restricted sites?
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2012-02-29/krindex29.jpg
Business Times - 29 Feb 2012
Property mass-market starts post-ABSD recovery
NUS SRPI also shows upmarket homes in Central Region are still softening
By KALPANA RASHIWALA
(SINGAPORE) The mass- market segment has begun to recover from its knee-jerk reaction to the additional buyer's stamp duty (ABSD) introduced in December, but the upmarket private homes in the Central Region are still suffering.
Prices of completed private apartments (excluding smaller ones) in Non-Central Region rose 1 per cent in January, compared to December.
But according to the flash estimates of NUS' Singapore Residential Price Index (SRPI), prices of completed properties in the Central Region softened a further 1.9 per cent, relative to the previous month. Small apartments (up to 506 sq ft) also saw their prices fall 1 per cent, compared to December.
'This suggests that the ABSD has affected units in the Central Region, where buyers are more likely to be foreign-based or institutional, as well as shoebox units, where buyers tend to be more speculative,' said Associate Professor Lum Sau Kim of the Institute of Real Estate Studies (IRES).
'Despite announcements of continued government land supply into 2012, the robust market activity in the non-luxury segment has created sufficient demand tension to boost the secondary market for Non-Central units.'
SRPI tracks prices of completed private apartments and condos (excluding executive condos).
Starting from the January 2012 indices published yesterday, IRES has introduced a new basket - the sixth in the series - to make the indices more in tune with projects completed up to September last year.
'We formed Basket 6 by adding 113 new projects, out of which 52 were from Central Region, and dropping 106 older projects that had been completed between October 1998 and September 2001,' said Prof Lum.
Basket 6 comprises 370 projects totalling 74,015 units located across 25 districts in Singapore that were completed between October 2001 and September 2011. Basket 5 comprised 363 projects with 74,150 units completed between October 1998 and September 2009.
Weights for computing the capital-weighted SRPI indices were assigned based on the market value as at December 2011 of all the units in the latest Basket 6.
Without reconstituting the basket, the SRPI flash index values (based on Basket 5) for January 2012 would have been lower and hence there would be marginally larger percentage declines in prices, says Prof Lum. 'The difference arises from a substitution of newer projects for older ones going from Basket 5 to Basket 6. We can infer that newer units enjoyed better price performance than 10- to 12-year vintage units,' she added.
Based on Basket 5, SRPI for Central Region - comprising Districts 1-4 (which include the financial district and Sentosa Cove) and the traditional prime residential districts of 9, 10 and 11 - would have dipped 2.4 per cent month on month in January 2012, compared with a 1.9 per cent drop based on Basket 6.
The sub-index for Non-Central Region dipped 0.4 per cent m-on-m in January based on Basket 5, but rose 1 per cent based on Basket 6.
Over the same period, SRPI for small apartments islandwide declined 4.1 per cent going by Basket 5. Based on Basket 6, however, the drop was a much smaller 1 per cent. 'The small unit SRPI is more volatile in Basket 5 as small units are less well represented there. Basket 6 is better as we have captured more of these units and the sub-index would be less susceptible to outlier transactions,' says Prof Lum.
The overall SRPI fell 1.2 per cent based on Basket 5 and a smaller 0.4 per cent on Basket 6.
On both baskets, however, the Non-Central Region subindex fared better than the subindices for Central Region and small apartments islandwide.
DTZ's Southeast Asia chief operating officer Ong Choon Fah said: 'There's a perception that in the Central Region and for small units, the risks could be higher following the ABSD because these units attract more investors. So owners of such properties may be more willing to take a profit and accept prices that are a bit lower.' She expects the trend to continue.
Credo Real Estate executive director Ong Teck Hui added: 'The fall in the overall SRPI is reflective of a slower secondary market which has dropped 25 per cent in sales volume over the past year and is manifesting itself in price sluggishness.
'This is also the case for Central, where secondary market transactions fell 27 per cent in 2011, due mainly to falling demand in the prime sub-market. Also the ABSD has been expected to weigh more heavily on the prime districts due to the relatively higher proportion of foreign buyers compared to Non-Central.'
Copyright © 2010 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2012-02-29/krindex29.jpg
Business Times - 29 Feb 2012
Property mass-market starts post-ABSD recovery
NUS SRPI also shows upmarket homes in Central Region are still softening
By KALPANA RASHIWALA
(SINGAPORE) The mass- market segment has begun to recover from its knee-jerk reaction to the additional buyer's stamp duty (ABSD) introduced in December, but the upmarket private homes in the Central Region are still suffering.
Prices of completed private apartments (excluding smaller ones) in Non-Central Region rose 1 per cent in January, compared to December.
But according to the flash estimates of NUS' Singapore Residential Price Index (SRPI), prices of completed properties in the Central Region softened a further 1.9 per cent, relative to the previous month. Small apartments (up to 506 sq ft) also saw their prices fall 1 per cent, compared to December.
'This suggests that the ABSD has affected units in the Central Region, where buyers are more likely to be foreign-based or institutional, as well as shoebox units, where buyers tend to be more speculative,' said Associate Professor Lum Sau Kim of the Institute of Real Estate Studies (IRES).
'Despite announcements of continued government land supply into 2012, the robust market activity in the non-luxury segment has created sufficient demand tension to boost the secondary market for Non-Central units.'
SRPI tracks prices of completed private apartments and condos (excluding executive condos).
Starting from the January 2012 indices published yesterday, IRES has introduced a new basket - the sixth in the series - to make the indices more in tune with projects completed up to September last year.
'We formed Basket 6 by adding 113 new projects, out of which 52 were from Central Region, and dropping 106 older projects that had been completed between October 1998 and September 2001,' said Prof Lum.
Basket 6 comprises 370 projects totalling 74,015 units located across 25 districts in Singapore that were completed between October 2001 and September 2011. Basket 5 comprised 363 projects with 74,150 units completed between October 1998 and September 2009.
Weights for computing the capital-weighted SRPI indices were assigned based on the market value as at December 2011 of all the units in the latest Basket 6.
Without reconstituting the basket, the SRPI flash index values (based on Basket 5) for January 2012 would have been lower and hence there would be marginally larger percentage declines in prices, says Prof Lum. 'The difference arises from a substitution of newer projects for older ones going from Basket 5 to Basket 6. We can infer that newer units enjoyed better price performance than 10- to 12-year vintage units,' she added.
Based on Basket 5, SRPI for Central Region - comprising Districts 1-4 (which include the financial district and Sentosa Cove) and the traditional prime residential districts of 9, 10 and 11 - would have dipped 2.4 per cent month on month in January 2012, compared with a 1.9 per cent drop based on Basket 6.
The sub-index for Non-Central Region dipped 0.4 per cent m-on-m in January based on Basket 5, but rose 1 per cent based on Basket 6.
Over the same period, SRPI for small apartments islandwide declined 4.1 per cent going by Basket 5. Based on Basket 6, however, the drop was a much smaller 1 per cent. 'The small unit SRPI is more volatile in Basket 5 as small units are less well represented there. Basket 6 is better as we have captured more of these units and the sub-index would be less susceptible to outlier transactions,' says Prof Lum.
The overall SRPI fell 1.2 per cent based on Basket 5 and a smaller 0.4 per cent on Basket 6.
On both baskets, however, the Non-Central Region subindex fared better than the subindices for Central Region and small apartments islandwide.
DTZ's Southeast Asia chief operating officer Ong Choon Fah said: 'There's a perception that in the Central Region and for small units, the risks could be higher following the ABSD because these units attract more investors. So owners of such properties may be more willing to take a profit and accept prices that are a bit lower.' She expects the trend to continue.
Credo Real Estate executive director Ong Teck Hui added: 'The fall in the overall SRPI is reflective of a slower secondary market which has dropped 25 per cent in sales volume over the past year and is manifesting itself in price sluggishness.
'This is also the case for Central, where secondary market transactions fell 27 per cent in 2011, due mainly to falling demand in the prime sub-market. Also the ABSD has been expected to weigh more heavily on the prime districts due to the relatively higher proportion of foreign buyers compared to Non-Central.'
Copyright © 2010 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.
But asking prices and bank valuations of MM units in CCR are still at historic peak prices. Do banks valuate based on latest property index falls/rises?
Maybe when there are no buyers for next 1 year, then prices will dip.
But asking prices and bank valuations of MM units in CCR are still at historic peak prices. Do banks valuate based on latest property index falls/rises?
Maybe when there are no buyers for next 1 year, then prices will dip.
Need to go higher! coz many pple recently rush in with GOOD BYE for MM. if go down they really BYE BYE.. so can only go up!!!
Eldenfirefly
01-03-12, 21:36
Wait until all those launched in the last 3 years are built and hit the market. I think they will cause a slump then. A lot of supply of super small one bedders which are super hard to rent out. Once people find out how hard it is to rent out, then their value will likely drop as well.
My wife had an expat colleague who is almost the ideal MM candidate. He is single expat, good pay, and wants to stay in accesible place near the city. End up, he still rented a 2 bedder, not a MM one bedder.
People with the money are not going to want to stay in such cramped living spaces. People without the money, cannot afford the kind of rents that such places will demand to justify them anyway. So, they will share a HDB with other friends.
So in the end, I really don't know who will rent such MM units...
ikan bilis
01-03-12, 21:47
.......
So in the end, I really don't know who will rent such MM units...
seems like single ladies love mm.... and i do not understand them.... :beats-me-man:
(and sometimes i have that thinking of mcmlxxvi is a 40+ aunty... :D ... haha, sorry ah... my fault !!....)
PropertyNewbie
01-03-12, 22:03
seems like single ladies love mm.... and i do not understand them.... :beats-me-man:
(and sometimes i have that thinking of mcmlxxvi is a 40+ aunty... :D ... haha, sorry ah... my fault !!....)
Less housework la
seems like single ladies love mm.... and i do not understand them.... :beats-me-man:
(and sometimes i have that thinking of mcmlxxvi is a 40+ aunty... :D ... haha, sorry ah... my fault !!....)
am gonna take it positively... 40+ becoz i sound wiser than my years. aunty coz i keep cats and clean the house daily...
thx for the compliments
ikan bilis
02-03-12, 13:36
am gonna take it positively... 40+ becoz i sound wiser than my years. aunty coz i keep cats and clean the house daily...
thx for the compliments
ah.,... sorry... sometimes my mind gone short-circuited 1 :banghead: ... paiseh!!... :ashamed1:
ah.,... sorry... sometimes my mind gone short-circuited 1 :banghead: ... paiseh!!... :ashamed1:
dont apologise for your pov. u not the only one having that kind pov... always interesting to observe for me...
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