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SH is for SH
developer out bidded everyone with out of this world price with based price of 8xx psf (quoted from H88) of course they need to sell you the out of this world price.
for own stay, nothing to argue, prospective can pay whatever price they want to, including a ridiculous one
For investment, this is a no brainer.
Can't help feeling that if buy SH, you are paying for Capland's mistake. Only outside may look nice to some, but inside all same same lah, no different from any run of the mill condo.
Rosegarden
16-04-12, 10:43
what about new release? anymore good facing?
The agent on site said all units were released and he was ready to quote for any unit with his thick wag of price list, so it is quite confusing why the media reported only 180units were released.
:beats-me-man:
Can't help feeling that if buy SH, you are paying for Capland's mistake. Only outside may look nice to some, but inside all same same lah, no different from any run of the mill condo.
only time will tell....my thinking is that when mr mosquito...oops sorry i think mr moshdie..:D..the designer finally leaves this world...his works of art will appreciate...like Mona Lisa painting...:D
Rosegarden
16-04-12, 10:45
Wont that void developer's warranty of defects?
Imagine the whole estate busy with renovation work after collecting keys! :scared-1:
Like HDB, no?
phantom_opera
16-04-12, 10:45
Quite subjective really. I have walked before. About 11 to 13 mins. My friend who lives in the HDBs at Lor Ah Soo says he walks to Nex all the time. For some people, even 50m walk to the car park is considered far.
Walk in office attire or T-shirt with short? Rain, sunny or gloomy? :D You get what I mean
Can't help feeling that if buy SH, you are paying for Capland's mistake. Only outside may look nice to some, but inside all same same lah, no different from any run of the mill condo.
Not just the physical aspect of it. You also need to factor in the type of community. I am sure for HDB dwellers who bought a place there will invite their ah gong ah mah, ah gou ah yee, ah tee ah hiah to come use their condo facilities, turning the place into a weekend country club.
Wild Falcon
16-04-12, 10:47
Actually I don't like the "step" design because it obstructs the view from the units above. The units below also act as collection of rubbish from units above.
So high/mid floor units can only look "outwards" at the sky because if they look down, they will only see the balcony of the units below. And considering the "step" structure extended so far outwards, the high floor units will be looking down at 20 different concrete balconies with laundry. Sian.
And by the time this thing completes, the following MRT lines will be completed
DTL 2 - bukit timah and upper bukit timah
DTL 3 - bedok reservoir
TL - Thomson and Upper Thomson
All 3 above are locations nearer nature, greenery, reservoirs and exclusively private. Bishan central is neither here nor there. Neither very comforting heartlander like Toa Payoh or AMK, nor feels very laid back or exclusive. It's like a more "clinical" HDB heartland town without the heart.
SH is for SH
developer out bidded everyone with out of this world price with based price of 8xx psf (quoted from H88) of course they need to sell you the out of this world price.
for own stay, nothing to argue, prospective can pay whatever price they want to, including a ridiculous one
For investment, this is a no brainer.
The agent on site said all units were released and he was ready to quote for any unit with his thick wag of price list, so it is quite confusing why the media reported only 180units were released.
:beats-me-man:What the media says is what developer tell them... developer will surely say only 180 units released, in case take up is not too strong. However, if a buyer steps in and say he wants to buy from that stack which is not released, price list is already available and transaction can be made easily. :cheers6:
phantom_opera
16-04-12, 10:48
Not just the physical aspect of it. You also need to factor in the type of community. I am sure for HDB dwellers who bought a place there will invite their ah gong ah mah, ah gou ah yee, ah tee ah hiah to come use their condo facilities, turning the place into a weekend country club.
You sounded like stalingrad :hell-hath-no-fury:
Rosegarden
16-04-12, 10:51
I beg to differ. You must take in CM4-CM5 into consideration. If not because of all the CMs, they would have sold 200+ units .... they can sell 120+ units in 2d despite 4y SSD + ABSD @ record psf is considered very good performance already ... don't forget that foreigners ABSD is 10%
If the profile of buyers is truely HDB upgraders buying for their own residence, 4y SSD + ABSD probably is not a major consideration.
now can buy any unit u want from SH but discount drop to 2% instead of 3%.. and very soon not even 2%..
You sounded like stalingrad :hell-hath-no-fury:
just because I am teochew?
now can buy any unit u want from SH but discount drop to 2% instead of 3%.. and very soon not even 2%..
same pattern as flamingo valley 9-8-7%...
only time will tell....my thinking is that when mr mosquito...oops sorry i think mr moshdie..:D..the designer finally leaves this world...his works of art will appreciate...like Mona Lisa painting...:D
You could be right and KBW might just build HDB flats around SH and use that as viewing gallery to appreciate Mona lise.
Not bad right? promote art in heartland.
if most of the buyers are HDB upgraders, it just goes to show that there's lots of hidden dragons and crouching tigers amongst those in the heartlands. it's no joke forking out that SkyHigh kind of psf for a suburban condo
on a side note, the design reminds of me terrace rice padis
Actually I don't like the "step" design because it obstructs the view from the units above. The units below also act as collection of rubbish from units above.
So high/mid floor units can only look "outwards" at the sky because if they look down, they will only see the balcony of the units below. And considering the "step" structure extended so far outwards, the high floor units will be looking down at 20 different concrete balconies with laundry. Sian.
And by the time this thing completes, the following MRT lines will be completed
DTL 2 - bukit timah and upper bukit timah
DTL 3 - bedok reservoir
TL - Thomson and Upper Thomson
All 3 above are locations nearer nature, greenery, reservoirs and exclusively private. Bishan central is neither here nor there. Neither very comforting heartlander like Toa Payoh or AMK, nor feels very laid back or exclusive. It's like a more "clinical" HDB heartland town without the heart.
Agree with all of the above.
That's why the sales of Thomson Grand have been quietly doing well. SH has given a boost to TG.
Imagine all the cigarette butts dropping down onto your balcony from above with the step design. It might work in Western countries where perhaps ppl are more civic-minded but not in SG unless there's a quantum leap in attitude. I have an enclosed balcony in my condo and there's still cigarette butts appearing on the sill. This is despite the security going round personally to each unit to knock on the door and remind the occupants not to throw cigarette butts off the balconies. :doh:
only time will tell....my thinking is that when mr mosquito...oops sorry i think mr moshdie..:D..the designer finally leaves this world...his works of art will appreciate...like Mona Lisa painting...:D
Ya lor.. only time will tell... But hor, must wait 500 years to appreciate, like Mona Lisa painting... By then, lease run out liao..:D
Rosegarden
16-04-12, 11:00
.... And considering the "step" structure extended so far outwards, the high floor units will be looking down at 20 different concrete balconies with laundry. Sian.....
Due to the large balconies + small service yard + aversion to dryers ... this is a distinct possibility. :scared-1:
Ya lor.. only time will tell... But hor, must wait 500 years to appreciate, like Mona Lisa painting... By then, lease run out liao..:D
lease run out nebermind...the buyer also up the lorry...:D:D:D
Walk in office attire or T-shirt with short? Rain, sunny or gloomy? :D You get what I mean
That's why I said subjective. But, it is not completely unwalkable oso...:)
new2mondrian
16-04-12, 11:07
Due to the large balconies + small service yard + aversion to dryers ... this is a distinct possibility. :scared-1:
Haha this is really funny...
I had the same mental picture too. Plus given singapore's weather, the white walls will soon have dark streaks in them. Give a totally different artist impression altogether.
But jokes aside, I do want SH to do well. It is a good market barometer of how much liquidity and bullishness there is in the local heartlands segment. :)
lease run out nebermind...the buyer also up the lorry...:D:D:D
Read this. http://shanghaiist.com/2011/12/07/chongqing-chaotianmen.php
Many copies of Mona Lisa around...:D
Haha this is really funny...
I had the same mental picture too. Plus given singapore's weather, the white walls will soon have dark streaks in them. Give a totally different artist impression altogether.
But jokes aside, I do want SH to do well. It is a good market barometer of how much liquidity and bullishness there is in the local heartlands segment. :)
PAP is already shaken by recent suggestion to revamp low income wages to narrow income gap, do you think government will allow property prices to continue charging ahead?
No chance lah.
The agent on site said all units were released and he was ready to quote for any unit with his thick wag of price list, so it is quite confusing why the media reported only 180units were released.
:beats-me-man:
If they sold 70 units, they would say they launched only 100 units. If they managed to sell 140 units, they would say they launch only 200 units. They just want to make public that 70% of launched units sold. Another what we call facts but not real.
PAP is already shaken by recent suggestion to revamp low income wages to narrow income gap, do you think government will allow property prices to continue charging ahead?
No chance lah.
the increase in property prices is somewhat beyond the control of local govt's grasp, due to the liquidity slush in the global markets. whilst i agree that they won't let prices charge ahead, i beg to question the ability to conjure more CMs without affecting the overall stance of welcoming FDIs and FTs.
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 11:22
Quite subjective really. I have walked before. About 11 to 13 mins. My friend who lives in the HDBs at Lor Ah Soo says he walks to Nex all the time. For some people, even 50m walk to the car park is considered far.
IMO, as long as the walk is not more than 10 to 15 mins, it is okay. See it as an opportunity to exercise.
Of course as fclim pointed out, some people just don't like to walk. Remember in another posting someone remarked walking from one part of the MRT to another part of the MRT is troublesome.
speculator
16-04-12, 11:24
Agree with all of the above.
That's why the sales of Thomson Grand have been quietly doing well. SH has given a boost to TG.
If strictly comparing between Cheung Kong's Thomson Grand and Sky Habitat.
The choice is pretty obvious isn't it?
the increase in property prices is somewhat beyond the control of local govt's grasp, due to the liquidity slush in the global markets. whilst i agree that they won't let prices charge ahead, i beg to question the ability to conjure more CMs without affecting the overall stance of welcoming FDIs and FTs.
Up the interest rate. period
i think i am getting SH high floor when price drops due to recession.
a lot of downblouse opportunities if stay in high floor. can also know the colour of panties, be it SYT or MILF.
This is a ++++ point for japanese men tenants.
looking now for telescope that can point below horizon
If they sold 70 units, they would say they launched only 100 units. If they managed to sell 140 units, they would say they launch only 200 units. They just want to make public that 70% of launched units sold. Another what we call facts but not real.
Have we ever wonder why developers only announce the number of units launched after they know the number of units sold? Alternatively, they may announce only a very small number of units to be launched so that they will get a very high percentage of unit sold.
Where are all the era agents in this forum?
Have we ever wonder why developers only announce the number of units launched after they know the number of units sold? Alternatively, they may announce only a very small number of units to be launched so that they will get a very high percentage of unit sold.
Regardless of whether they announce how many units were launched and put a percentage to the units sold, the fact is that they sold 120+ units. IMO, this is not a great number but neither a bad one as well. The next 2-3 weeks will show if they can move at least 70% of the total units fast enough.
Where are all the era agents in this forum?
At Bishan lah kopi...waiting for the lunch time crowd to come in 30 mins time.
PAP is already shaken by recent suggestion to revamp low income wages to narrow income gap, do you think government will allow property prices to continue charging ahead?
No chance lah.They already say must handle this suggestion with great great care... to prevent prices from going further up, they'll inevitably offend another group of people lor... nothing that they do can ever satisfy everybody lah... :)
Wild Falcon
16-04-12, 11:49
Should buy low floor. Then all the undergarments will fall onto your balcony when the wind blows. Imagine the SYT or MILF come to your place to "collect" their undies. kekeke.
Actually I'm more concerned with the view obstruction of the design. I was at H88 website and obviously many units might have very limited and narrow visual field. The stupid bridges obstruct the views further. Why would people go from one block to another?
Look at the pic below. Left side obstructed by wall, right side obstructed by more wall. Narrow visual field. gives headache only. high floor becomes useless. And this is not even view of an actual unit. That would be worse with the balcony below. I've seen lots of such condos. Disappointing views due to obstruction by design.
http://www.h88.com.sg/images/content/2012-04-12/sky_habitat_bishan_sky_bridge2.jpg
i think i am getting SH high floor when price drops due to recession.
a lot of downblouse opportunities if stay in high floor. can also know the colour of panties, be it SYT or MILF.
This is a ++++ point for japanese men tenants.
looking now for telescope that can point below horizon
At Bishan lah kopi...waiting for the lunch time crowd to come in 30 mins time.
This incredible....property becomes something you can pick up from a promoter (aka property agent) in a shopping mall at lunch time just like any other item being sold from a push cart. :scared-5:
The buyers of this condo are really brave! Really see no upside at all. But the development has help enlivened the bishan area and raise the value of existing and upcoming developments. In a way, the development has benefitted the bystanders!
As a owner of a penthouse unit with a roof terrace, I already see how messy the staggered terraces at SH can be when it comes to debris falling to the units below, paint streaking as well as other maintenance issues.
Good luck!
for painting of external wall of staggered terraces, does the painters need to come inside the units to paint?
a mass market project doing 16xx psf selling 125 mostly "large" 3bd and 2bd units in 2 days, if this is not good response, I think you are just talking for the sake of it. (3bd is abt 1.9mil, 2bd is abt 1.6m after all the discounts.) Remember this is under all the CMs and ABSDs.
any good facing units left ? plenty. 2 entire stacks of 4bds, pool facing or unobstructed open facing, are available. cost > 2.7m.
If there are no more CMs, I have no doubt the remaining small units will eventually be all sold within the next few months. What CAPL will have problems selling are those large quantum units. There are plenty of them, with numbers like 2.7m, 3.5m. I'm pretty sure CAPL is prepared to take the whole 4yrs to sell them.
Should buy low floor. Then all the undergarments will fall onto your balcony when the wind blows. Imagine the SYT or MILF come to your place to "collect" their undies. kekeke.
Actually I'm more concerned with the view obstruction of the design. I was at H88 website and obviously many units might have very limited and narrow visual field. The stupid bridges obstruct the views further. Why would people go from one block to another?
Look at the pic below. Left side obstructed by wall, right side obstructed by more wall. Narrow visual field. gives headache only. high floor becomes useless. And this is not even view of an actual unit. That would be worse with the balcony below. I've seen lots of such condos. Disappointing views due to obstruction by design.
maybe they need to reenforce the building in case there is strong wind blowing.
bargain hunter
16-04-12, 12:32
ok lah, u win lah with ur 1600psf prediction. ;)
a mass market project doing 16xx psf selling 125 mostly "large" 3bd and 2bd units in 2 days, if this is not good response, I think you are just talking for the sake of it. (3bd is abt 1.9mil, 2bd is abt 1.6m after all the discounts.) Remember this is under all the CMs and ABSDs.
any good facing units left ? plenty. 2 entire stacks of 4bds, pool facing or unobstructed open facing, are available. cost > 2.7m.
If there are no more CMs, I have no doubt the remaining small units will eventually be all sold within the next few months. What CAPL will have problems selling are those large quantum units. There are plenty of them, with numbers like 2.7m, 3.5m. I'm pretty sure CAPL is prepared to take the whole 4yrs to sell them.
for painting of external wall of staggered terraces, does the painters need to come inside the units to paint?
I would think so. ask those living in the arcadia.
speculator
16-04-12, 12:35
If there are no more CMs, I have no doubt the remaining small units will eventually be all sold within the next few months. What CAPL will have problems selling are those large quantum units. There are plenty of them, with numbers like 2.7m, 3.5m. I'm pretty sure CAPL is prepared to take the whole 4yrs to sell them.
Sold 125 out of 509 units. 24% sold at launch for a project of this quantum. I think they are doing well.
maybe they need to reenforce the building in case there is strong wind blowing.
Juniper you need to visit the place to get the correct picture. Some ppl never get the facts right before making the comments. Those "bridges" are not corridors. They are gyms and function rooms and stuff like that. Have to do this due to the limited size of the plot.
I had never expected it to have both 50m lap pool AND a tennis court on the ground.
MND minister said property is for long term, developers are pricing such that buyers have no choice but to hold long term.
Juniper you need to visit the place to get the correct picture. Some ppl never get the facts right before making the comments. Those "bridges" are not corridors. They are gyms and function rooms and stuff like that. Have to do this due to the limited size of the plot.
I had never expected it to have both 50m lap pool AND a tennis court on the ground.
I am not a structure engineer and neither are you. And that is why I am saying MAYBE. Having said that, there is nothing wrong for the bridge to serve duo purpose. If I recall, the bridge between the petronas tower was build for that purpose as well.
Wow.. 70% of 180 units on first 2 days? Not bad. But still I cannot see the price to value people willing to pay . It's eye in the beholder. Saw the finishing cheap... Balcony so big. That area year end is very windy. High floor living in strong wind? Hmmm
Not a good buy at all. I guess residence living near by who want to sell ate all happy! At least this benefited some folks.
Bro Minority, is this another Carrot Farm in yr dictionary? Surprised u hv toned down with the name calling:ashamed1:
Sold 125 out of 509 units. 24% sold at launch for a project of this quantum. I think they are doing well.
although I dun think they can clear more than 50% any time soon. Essentially all the >2mil units will not move. I would say CAPL is learning to be FEO or SHK on this.
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 13:34
The Straits Times today reported a 32 year old sales executive buying TWO 3BR units on the 33rd and 39th floors. He intends to rent out both units. Wonder what he sells - insurance, property, planes, ships, tanks ???
Another person (a Public Servant) aged 35 bought a 2BR plus study pool-facing unit - he says "The prices are steep, yes, but it's COMFORTABLE with the incentives given". Wow - which govt ministry / agency does he come from ???
There are definitely Singaporeans with money to spend!
bakasa2002
16-04-12, 13:37
The Straits Times today reported a 32 year old sales executive buying TWO 3BR units on the 33rd and 39th floors. He intends to rent out both units. Wonder what he sells - insurance, property, planes, ships, tanks ???
Another person (a Public Servant) aged 35 bought a 2BR plus study pool-facing unit - he says "The prices are steep, yes, but it's COMFORTABLE with the incentives given". Wow - which govt ministry / agency does he come from ???
There are definitely Singaporeans with money to spend!
Maybe he is selling boats ... As we are on the topic of power of HDB upgraders, I think this story is worth reading - http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120414-339746.html
phantom_opera
16-04-12, 13:43
In marketing, there is no such thing as whether can or cannot sell 1700psf in Bishan, you just tell the marketing team I want to sell 1,700psf in Bishan ... and the marketing team will think of this "half landed half condo" marketing theme which plays out over the TV commercials like a piece of classical music
so obviously ppl are buying the idea of half landed half condo ... and it is a new market segment ... designer condo + half landed half condo = Sky Habitat
And I must thank them as I am vested in OCR since 2009 .... there will be a "repricing of risk upwards" and I can guarantee you that many OCR projects will sell out in no time as property agents will keep saying ... aiya Bishan already 1700psf mah ... 1000psf is cheap cheap lelong price
The Straits Times today reported a 32 year old sales executive buying TWO 3BR units on the 33rd and 39th floors. He intends to rent out both units. Wonder what he sells - insurance, property, planes, ships, tanks ???
Another person (a Public Servant) aged 35 bought a 2BR plus study pool-facing unit - he says "The prices are steep, yes, but it's COMFORTABLE with the incentives given". Wow - which govt ministry / agency does he come from ???
There are definitely Singaporeans with money to spend!Wow... 32 years old can buy 2 units... bank loan approval must also be done before committing... hmmm... unless he has other source of cold hard cash? :o
I already tell my son ...if you think current party will still rule for next 20-30 years, then join the Civil Service or any quasi-govt body/stat board.
Sure COMFORTABLE life...and of course, you sure will have incentive to vote accordingly. "You take of me, and I will take care of you."
The Straits Times today reported a 32 year old sales executive buying TWO 3BR units on the 33rd and 39th floors. He intends to rent out both units. Wonder what he sells - insurance, property, planes, ships, tanks ???
Another person (a Public Servant) aged 35 bought a 2BR plus study pool-facing unit - he says "The prices are steep, yes, but it's COMFORTABLE with the incentives given". Wow - which govt ministry / agency does he come from ???
There are definitely Singaporeans with money to spend!
DMG & Partners said the latest residential property project by Southeast Asia's largest
property developer, CapitaLand Ltd <CATL.SI>, in Singapore's suburb of Bishan was priced
at a lower than expected level.
The broker said the Sky Habitat project, designed by well known architect Moshe Safdie,
was priced at between S$1,642-1,747 per square foot (psf) which was below market
expectations of S$1,700-1,800 per square foot.
"We believe the take up for the initial project launch is somewhat below our expectations
given the good location of the project, and the initial achieved average selling prices are
also at the lower end of market expectations of S$1,700-S$1,800 psf," DMG said in a report.
Singapore property prices have rebounded sharply from the steep fall during the global
financial crisis in 2009 and record low interest rates have boosted demand.
DMG maintained its neutral rating on CapitaLand with a target price of S$3.03 a share. The
shares eased 0.3 percent to S$2.94 and have jumped about 33 percent so far this year,
more than double the rise in the broader market <.FTSTI>.
phantom_opera
16-04-12, 13:49
Wow... 32 years old can buy 2 units... bank loan approval must also be done before committing... hmmm... unless he has other source of cold hard cash? :o
Remember the garmen official who took a holiday in France and spent something like 30k and boasting about it in paper?? :rolleyes:
If suburb private residential properties like Sky@Habitat in Bishan furnished with lousy tiles flooring and small pieces parquets (heard some only come with laminates) and cheap appliances can sell at >$1700 psf, isn't this already govt allowing new launch property prices to charge super high? If this is not high then what is it? :doh:
Don't understand what you are talking about. OCR New launch Property prices cheong ah! Govt won't do a single thing about because it is in their interest? :p No wonder new launch so HOT! :D
PAP is already shaken by recent suggestion to revamp low income wages to narrow income gap, do you think government will allow property prices to continue charging ahead?
No chance lah.
phantom_opera
16-04-12, 13:55
COE prices are soaring because the economy is doing well and not because the Government is further slowing the growth in the vehicle population to 0.5 per cent, as that kicks in only in August, Transport Minister Lui Tuck Yew said on Sunday
=> Replace COE with property :cheers5:
COE prices are soaring because the economy is doing well and not because the Government is further slowing the growth in the vehicle population to 0.5 per cent, as that kicks in only in August, Transport Minister Lui Tuck Yew said on Sunday
=> Replace COE with property :cheers5:I always take what the govt says with a pinch of salt... have to consider more factors than one... any mistakes by our govt will surely have an explanation. Only last year I first time hear PAP say 'Sorry' but no more after that! Does apologizing make one look any lesser?
Wild Falcon
16-04-12, 14:03
I also notice those who like to be interviewed when buying expensive projects for "investments" are 30-year old civil servants type - not only this project but many others. I'm beginning to think the civil service pay darn well and iron rice bowl. Really sibei haolian...
Oh forgot to add, their only actions until now is to introduce CMs that will curb resales much more than new launch so that if people want to buy, it is more favorable to buy new launch, hence new launch can sell super well, and they can continue to release and sell more land! OCR new launch cheong ah! They also huat ah! :beats-me-man:
If suburb private residential properties like Sky@Habitat in Bishan furnished with lousy tiles flooring and small pieces parquets (heard some only come with laminates) and cheap appliances can sell at >$1700 psf, isn't this already govt allowing new launch property prices to charge super high? If this is not high then what is it? :doh:
Don't understand what you are talking about. OCR New launch Property prices cheong ah! Govt won't do a single thing about because it is in their interest? :p No wonder new launch so HOT! :D
regency321
16-04-12, 14:28
What the media says is what developer tell them... developer will surely say only 180 units released, in case take up is not too strong. However, if a buyer steps in and say he wants to buy from that stack which is not released, price list is already available and transaction can be made easily. :cheers6:
Yes I was thinking this too. If only 180 units available, how come the price list shows so many units? People step in to buy a particular stack / unit, they won't be turned away right?
But honestly the result is quite stunning, not bad for first two days. Really a lot of rich people in Singapore. Let's see if really got so many rich people who like to stay in Bishan.
Rosegarden
16-04-12, 14:45
Yes I was thinking this too. If only 180 units available, how come the price list shows so many units? People step in to buy a particular stack / unit, they won't be turned away right?
But honestly the result is quite stunning, not bad for first two days. Really a lot of rich people in Singapore. Let's see if really got so many rich people who like to stay in Bishan.
A lot of rich, young, civil servants ....:)
phantom_opera
16-04-12, 14:55
renamed to (Garmen) Scholar Habitat :scared-4:
Oh forgot to add, their only actions until now is to introduce CMs that will curb resales much more than new launch so that if people want to buy, it is more favorable to buy new launch, hence new launch can sell super well, and they can continue to release and sell more land! OCR new launch cheong ah! They also huat ah! :beats-me-man:
Now action seems to be curbing resale in favor of new launch. Then after 1 to 2 years, they tighten policies on new launch and relax on resale...Wah like this those you buy new now Huat ahhh....
regency321
16-04-12, 15:24
Now action seems to be curbing resale in favor of new launch. Then after 1 to 2 years, they tighten policies on new launch and relax on resale...Wah like this those you buy new now Huat ahhh....
Actually either way the govt huat ahh !!
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 15:27
This question just came to me.
Since SH is seen to be an iconic building, I wonder if the govt will preserve it after the 99 years lease is up (assuming the building is still strong and stable after all those years).
regency321
16-04-12, 15:30
This question just came to me.
Since SH is seen to be an iconic building, I wonder if the govt will preserve it after the 99 years lease is up (assuming the building is still strong and stable after all those years).
iconic is CAPL say one hor, govt never stepped out to say its iconic..
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 15:34
Yes I was thinking this too. If only 180 units available, how come the price list shows so many units? People step in to buy a particular stack / unit, they won't be turned away right?
But honestly the result is quite stunning, not bad for first two days. Really a lot of rich people in Singapore. Let's see if really got so many rich people who like to stay in Bishan.
I think the announcements of the number of units released / made available for private condos can always be "manipulated" to suit the developers' marketing / PR objectives.
At least for Executive Condos, there is no manipulation of the number of units released since they are all released at the same time.
A lot of rich, young, civil servants ....:)Don't think their salary commands that sort of property commitment. They probably have other sources of income or cash on hand.. Forgive my skepticism. ;)
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 15:45
Don't think their salary commands that sort of property commitment. They probably have other sources of income or cash on hand.. Forgive my skepticism. ;)
Those at director levels (these people could be in their early to mid 30s) may be able to earn about $15K a month. Those at deputy director levels could earn about $10K a month.
If husband and wife are both at similar levels in the govt, this means combined income of $25K to $30K. Can easily afford a $2M unit especially if they are careful about their spending.
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 15:49
iconic is CAPL say one hor, govt never stepped out to say its iconic..
Maybe some day in the future, our National Heritage Board will gazette this as a national monument ! :)
(Note: Buildings gazetted as national monuments are selected for their social-historical significance. These buildings not only have architectural merit but were important to the community and the people.)
what are people going to do with slanted balcony? customized furniture ?
Where are all the era agents in this forum?
busy on the streets pulling in customers who qualify for the additional +1%+1% !
regency321
16-04-12, 15:58
Maybe some day in the future, our National Heritage Board will gazette this as a national monument ! :)
(Note: Buildings gazetted as national monuments are selected for their social-historical significance. These buildings not only have architectural merit but were important to the community and the people.)
unlikely to happen cos' then the owners cannot enbloc to sell at 3000psf in 30 years time. :cheers5:
Wild Falcon
16-04-12, 15:58
Hello? Just because the foreign architect got win awards for OTHER developments overseas before and this one copy the other one doesn't mean this one will win award or got "heritage" value hor. Sometimes designer also come up with mediocre stuff. This one I think will not have any heritage value...
Maybe some day in the future, our National Heritage Board will gazette this as a national monument ! :)
(Note: Buildings gazetted as national monuments are selected for their social-historical significance. These buildings not only have architectural merit but were important to the community and the people.)
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 16:07
Hello? Just because the foreign architect got win awards for OTHER developments overseas before and this one copy the other one doesn't mean this one will win award or got "heritage" value hor. Sometimes designer also come up with mediocre stuff. This one I think will not have any heritage value...
Ha ha - just throwing some food for thought.
I don't think it will have any heritage value too - it can meet the criteria for architectural merit (this aspect is debatable) but I doubt it would meet the criteria of being important to the community or the people.
If the profile of buyers is truely HDB upgraders buying for their own residence, 4y SSD + ABSD probably is not a major consideration.
I wonder if these brave souls are fans of warren buffett - buy when others are fearful!!!!
Easily 黑目壳!!!!!!
regards
bargain hunter
16-04-12, 16:33
ask your wife to stand at the furthest end of the balcony, put her 2 arms horizontal and imagine she's Rose in titanic? romantic leh.
what are people going to do with slanted balcony? customized furniture ?
new2mondrian
16-04-12, 16:37
Hello? Just because the foreign architect got win awards for OTHER developments overseas before and this one copy the other one doesn't mean this one will win award or got "heritage" value hor. Sometimes designer also come up with mediocre stuff. This one I think will not have any heritage value...
Sloped balconies concept is not alien to Singapore. For inspiration as to how sky habitat will look like in 30 years' time, go look at golden mile complex. Come to think of it, golden mile complex has a waterfront view which SH is lacking too. :)
new2mondrian
16-04-12, 16:41
ask your wife to stand at the furthest end of the balcony, put her 2 arms horizontal and imagine she's Rose in titanic? romantic leh.
Wah biang... And to do the full suite, your wife should loudly proclaim in Rose style - "You jump, I jump"...
And only to land on all the wet laundry of the downstairs neighbor's. Rofl...
ask your wife to stand at the furthest end of the balcony, put her 2 arms horizontal and imagine she's Rose in titanic? romantic leh.
rofl!!! this is even better - Titanic 4D version :D
phantom_opera
16-04-12, 16:43
Wah biang... And to do the full suite, your wife should loudly proclaim in Rose style - "You jump, I jump"...
And only to land on all the wet laundry of the downstairs neighbor's. Rofl...
No more maid/kid falling accident for SH... CAPL should sell this as a feature ... at most land on your downstairs balcony :eek:
Rosegarden
16-04-12, 16:46
ask your wife to stand at the furthest end of the balcony, put her 2 arms horizontal and imagine she's Rose in titanic? romantic leh.
In Titanic, can see the vast ocean all the way to the horizon.
In SH, see MRT depot, mosque, stadium or that grinning uncle in the opposite block? :D
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 16:49
ask your wife to stand at the furthest end of the balcony, put her 2 arms horizontal and imagine she's Rose in titanic? romantic leh.
Just don't copy what Leonardo did in Titanic - spit from the balcony ! :)
another selling point for this development. buy two units, with one directly above the other. the top for mistress and the unit below for wife. anytime the wife comes banging on the door, u jump down and appear instantly at home :scared-5:
new2mondrian
16-04-12, 16:55
Just don't copy what Leonardo did in Titanic - spit from the balcony ! :)
Haha CAPL is actively marketing sky habitat in china right? There may be a whole family of "Leonardo di Kopi-orh" upstairs hor.. :)
Wild Falcon
16-04-12, 16:58
Even if you jump I jump also won't die because got balcony below to "hop" you.
Just don't copy what Leonardo did in Titanic - spit from the balcony ! :)
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 16:59
another selling point for this development. buy two units, with one directly above the other. the top for mistress and the unit below for wife. anytime the wife comes banging on the door, u jump down and appear instantly at home :scared-5:
Someone bought two 3 bedroom units - one on 33rd floor and one on 35th floor, and he intends to rent out both units. He can use this as a selling point :)
phantom_opera
16-04-12, 17:02
Don't pray pray, with all these hidden features ... price may hit beyond 2kpsf in 1y time :beats-me-man:
It is another The Sail or South Bank in the making ..
new2mondrian
16-04-12, 17:02
Someone bought two 3 bedroom units - one on 33rd floor and one on 35th floor, and he intends to rent out both units. He can use this as a selling point :)
Wow he should also get level 34. Construct internal staircase from the balcony and convert into a super 3 level penthouse for self stay. Good for multi generation families...
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 17:06
Wow he should also get level 34. Construct internal staircase from the balcony and convert into a super 3 level penthouse for self stay. Good for multi generation families...
He could be one of those who don't like the number "4" in the unit number or someone else beat him to the unit.
Someone bought two 3 bedroom units - one on 33rd floor and one on 35th floor, and he intends to rent out both units. He can use this as a selling point :)
he just vested $4million in this.... wow....
how much did they pay for thr designer? seems a good strategy to get branded designer to boost the project. afterall the designer fee is paid by buyer :D
he just vested $4million in this.... wow....
news said he is a sales exec. didnt know a sales exec can earn so much
phantom_opera
16-04-12, 17:12
he just vested $4million in this.... wow....
40% cash upfront = 1.6 million cash/cpf ... WOW!!! :simmering:
Is he selling drugs?? :banghead:
regency321
16-04-12, 17:14
news said he is a sales exec. didnt know a sales exec can earn so much
maybe in petrol chemical or private banking. these ppl makes tons of money, literally like printing $
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 17:18
40% cash upfront = 1.6 million cash/cpf ... WOW!!! :simmering:
Is he selling drugs?? :banghead:
Or he has access to funds (e.g. parents)!
Or he has access to funds (e.g. parents)!I also say... at 32 yo with $1.6mil to splurge... :rolleyes:. Stretching that further, if he applied for bank loan and it must be approved before he can buy the 2 units. Now that is a whopping $2.4mil loan approval. You have to be earning like $20+k/mth to qualify, don't you? I suspect he has spare cash from other sources (aka parents...) :)
40% cash upfront = 1.6 million cash/cpf ... WOW!!! :simmering:
Is he selling drugs?? :banghead:
that would mean he may take $2.6m (60% of $4m) loan. At 1.5% interest and 30 years loan, monthly instalment about $9k... so his monthly salary should be about $23k for him to be eligible to max out 40% instalment loan of his gross monthly salary.
regency321
16-04-12, 17:31
he just vested $4million in this.... wow....
Maybe he is from CAPL? anyone can verify that he 'really' bought the units? or he 'intends' to buy 33&35 floor and 'intends' to rent out?
Rosegarden
16-04-12, 17:32
32 is not really young. $20k+ per month salary is not unthinkable for a good performer at this age.
Take the example of the Admin service, a good performer at 32 should reach the entry grade of superscale, i.e. 300k+ per annum. A person of this profile with the confidence of long term job stability, is totally capable of making the purchase.
Edit: Entry superscale grade was 398k in 2007. So it should be higher than 400k by now. (source: http://app.psd.gov.sg/data/Press%20release%20-%2013%20Dec%2007.pdf)
bargain hunter
16-04-12, 17:32
1) that will happen if prices crash.
2) as everyone has mentioned, want to die also cannot die. :ashamed1:
Wah biang... And to do the full suite, your wife should loudly proclaim in Rose style - "You jump, I jump"...
And only to land on all the wet laundry of the downstairs neighbor's. Rofl...
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 17:37
Maybe he is from CAPL? anyone can verify that he 'really' bought the units? or he 'intends' to buy 33&35 floor and 'intends' to rent out?
This guy was reported in the Straits Times today as having bought the units and his intention is to rent out the units.
Looks genuine enough!
phantom_opera
16-04-12, 17:40
32 is not really young. $20k+ per month salary is not unthinkable for a good performer at this age.
Take the example of the Admin service, a good performer at 32 should reach the entry grade of superscale, i.e. 300k+ per annum. A person of this profile with the confidence of long term job stability, is totally capable of making the purchase.
32 and earning 20k+ is possible of course ... but to have 1.6million spare cash is no joke ...unless is Ah gong's money lo
rymccondo77
16-04-12, 17:41
32 is not really young. $20k+ per month salary is not unthinkable for a good performer at this age.
Take the example of the Admin service, a good performer at 32 should reach the entry grade of superscale, i.e. 300k+ per annum. A person of this profile with the confidence of long term job stability, is totally capable of making the purchase.
Yup possible. The other buyer that was quoted in the Straits Times article today says he is a public servant and aged 35. Bought a 2 Bedroom plus study pool facing unit and says he is COMFORTABLE with the prices given the incentives (discounts) given.
Rosegarden
16-04-12, 17:44
32 and earning 20k+ is possible of course ... but to have 1.6million spare cash is no joke ...
Could be less. He may not have outstanding loans.
32 is not really young. $20k+ per month salary is not unthinkable for a good performer at this age.
Take the example of the Admin service, a good performer at 32 should reach the entry grade of superscale, i.e. 300k+ per annum. A person of this profile with the confidence of long term job stability, is totally capable of making the purchase.
Edit: Entry superscale grade was 398k in 2007. So it should be higher than 400k by now. (source: http://app.psd.gov.sg/data/Press%20release%20-%2013%20Dec%2007.pdf)
They belong to the top 10 percentile of the households...
32 and earning 20k+ is possible of course ... but to have 1.6million spare cash is no joke ...unless is Ah gong's money loAgreed... and to keep all those cash and suddenly splurge into one project? If he's saved and saved to get that amount, he'd have been tempted to already use it to buy a property earlier at other good venues, etc? He must be awfully disciplined to keep them only to spend in a single project. There are other attractive projects around too... hmmm... maybe he recently offloaded his investment portfolios? :rolleyes:
They belong to the top 10 percentile of the households...Impressive indeed... our ministers are all in the top 5%? :D
Rosegarden
16-04-12, 17:52
They belong to the top 10 percentile of the households...
Singapore households numbered 1,146,200 in 2011.
Easily 100k of households can afford the double-purchase at SH. :cheers4:
regency321
16-04-12, 17:53
Agreed... and to keep all those cash and suddenly splurge into one project? If he's saved and saved to get that amount, he'd have been tempted to already use it to buy a property earlier at other good venues, etc? He must be awfully disciplined to keep them only to spend in a single project. There are other attractive projects around too... hmmm... maybe he recently offloaded his investment portfolios? :rolleyes:
SH isn't an investment property la... how much must the rental be to have decent returns? I don't think investors will buy this for investment. Thats why I am doubting whether really got people buy 2 units at one go for rent.
The other 35 year old guy maybe is scholar earning 400k p.a.
Singapore households numbered 1,146,200 in 2011.
Easily 100k of households can afford the double-purchase at SH. :cheers4:Subtracting those who are only interested in GCB and those who already have housing commitments and those who are not intersted in OCR projects coz their salary allows them to look at CCR, plus those who prefer landed properties, then you are left with not many... but still I guess its enough to clear off this project. :cheers5:
SH isn't an investment property la... how much must the rental be to have decent returns? I don't think investors will buy this for investment. Thats why I am doubting whether really got people buy 2 units at one go for rent.
The other 35 year old guy maybe is scholar earning 400k p.a.I agree with your analysis. As I mentioned earlier, how much higher can the rental rise if nearby HDB are asking super low... also how much higher in price appreciation can this project rise if it is already deemed as the highest in suburban projects... need other stimulus... coupled with 4yr SSD, investment prospect in this project is pretty low... :)
Impressive indeed... our ministers are all in the top 5%? :D
my guess are our ministers are top 2%...among the "average" CFOs and CEOs rankings... the top top CEOs, investment bankers, lawyers, docs etc are in the top 1%.
Rosegarden
16-04-12, 18:09
Subtracting those who are only interested in GCB and those who already have housing commitments and those who are not intersted in OCR projects coz their salary allows them to look at CCR, plus those who prefer landed properties, then you are left with not many... but still I guess its enough to clear off this project. :cheers5:
Actually, if they can afford SH at 1700psf, they can afford CCR.... just that they preferred Bishan SH to CCR unbranded condo. :p
Oh my! You made a mistake, pegged to top 100 earners out of 3,000,000 working population, should be at least top 0.003% earners? :beats-me-man:
Impressive indeed... our ministers are all in the top 5%? :D
Jonathan0503
16-04-12, 18:37
Sloped balconies concept is not alien to Singapore. For inspiration as to how sky habitat will look like in 30 years' time, go look at golden mile complex. Come to think of it, golden mile complex has a waterfront view which SH is lacking too. :)
Pandan Valley has similar concept also right?
Any o'how better than resale since can wait 4-years for SSD to expire, only 20% downpayment needed even with 60% LTV with another 20% deferred payment, can flip near the end of 4 years hoping that by then property prices would have gone up much more! :beats-me-man:
I agree with your analysis. As I mentioned earlier, how much higher can the rental rise if nearby HDB are asking super low... also how much higher in price appreciation can this project rise if it is already deemed as the highest in suburban projects... need other stimulus... coupled with 4yr SSD, investment prospect in this project is pretty low... :)
This guy was reported in the Straits Times today as having bought the units and his intention is to rent out the units.
Looks genuine enough!
he probably has more money than the 40% required. Cos the rental to loan instalment is going to be crap!
i beg your pardon. pegged to top 1000 earners. so, should be 0.0333% earners.
Oh my! You made a mistake, pegged to top 100 earners out of 3,000,000 working population, should be at least top 0.003% earners? :beats-me-man:
Did you see any thread in here where mop and papers landed on the shelter of a patio unit in a condo development? I can anticipate that some people will say that such thing does not happen in this upmarket condo as they are higher class people who pay $1600 - $1700psf. :p
Agree with all of the above.
That's why the sales of Thomson Grand have been quietly doing well. SH has given a boost to TG.
Imagine all the cigarette butts dropping down onto your balcony from above with the step design. It might work in Western countries where perhaps ppl are more civic-minded but not in SG unless there's a quantum leap in attitude. I have an enclosed balcony in my condo and there's still cigarette butts appearing on the sill. This is despite the security going round personally to each unit to knock on the door and remind the occupants not to throw cigarette butts off the balconies. :doh:
Did you see any thread in here where mop and papers landed on the shelter of a patio unit in a condo development? I can anticipate that some people will say that such thing does not happen in this upmarket condo as they are higher class people who pay $1600 - $1700psf. :p
High class people don't use mop and papers? :cheers4:
Some pple just wanna perform, n make a statement "they can". This guy buy 2 units n announce to whole Singapore is simply making a loud statement.
On a separate note, the news said 6k + units sold in 1st qtr, record sales. Now plus SH record price. Confirm siao Liao , CM confirm coming.
Not again to target resale properties and foreigners?
May be they want to look at: Cash back, deferred payment, SSDs causing ineffective for new launch? :beats-me-man:
May be they won't because coffeeshop talks said they won't, no reasons for them to shoot their own foot.... :scared-3:
Some pple just wanna perform, n make a statement "they can". This guy buy 2 units n announce to whole Singapore is simply making a loud statement.
On a separate note, the news said 6k + units sold in 1st qtr, record sales. Now plus SH record price. Confirm siao Liao , CM confirm coming.
Some pple just wanna perform, n make a statement "they can". This guy buy 2 units n announce to whole Singapore is simply making a loud statement.
On a separate note, the news said 6k + units sold in 1st qtr, record sales. Now plus SH record price. Confirm siao Liao , CM confirm coming.
Public servant earn alot..... last time we complain minister earn alot now we must SCRUTINISE PUBLIC SERVICE!:hell-hath-no-fury:
They are in relatively safe job during recession and pays well of at least $10000/mth with the overseas scholar at deputy director level. Hence, no fear of recession. Probably got a few months bonus last year.
Public servant earn alot..... last time we complain minister earn alot now we must SCRUTINISE PUBLIC SERVICE!:hell-hath-no-fury:
Not again to target resale properties and foreigners?
May be they want to look at: Cash back, deferred payment, SSDs causing ineffective for new launch? :beats-me-man:
May be they won't because coffeeshop talks said they won't, no reasons for them to shoot their own foot.... :scared-3:
you believe tharman or u believe coffeeshop talk. The cards are clearly laid on the table. 6 CMS, record 1st qtr sales figure. RECORD RCR prices. CCR stop le, OCR still choing, the next one sure make it pain pain while they continue to push EC. Shoot their own foot? They want 2 foot instead of 1. Which developer sells more than 5k units in a year, n damn confident it will move?
ya owning a piece of wonderful architecture is an investment. it's like buying art, really. ok, i'm sold.
Maybe this buyer is him :scared-1:
news said he is a sales exec. didnt know a sales exec can earn so much
maybe sales exec in his father's company? :D soem bosses like to give themselves lower titles, so can siam or pretend if customers demand for things, they can always say must go back and ask the boss
Not again to target resale properties and foreigners?
May be they want to look at: Cash back, deferred payment, SSDs causing ineffective for new launch? :beats-me-man:
May be they won't because coffeeshop talks said they won't, no reasons for them to shoot their own foot.... :scared-3:
think have to increase interest rates if they really want to stop property prices from setting new records. even changing to 50% ltv will probably not stop most of these property hungry folks :o
bargain hunter
17-04-12, 00:58
is it possible for gahment to set a policy of minimal 2% interest rates for residential mortgage loans?
think have to increase interest rates if they really want to stop property prices from setting new records. even changing to 50% ltv will probably not stop most of these property hungry folks :o
is it possible for gahment to set a policy of minimal 2% interest rates for residential mortgage loans?
And benefit the banks? What for?
And benefit the banks? What for?
Exactly. The might as well nationalise the banks if that's the case.
Exactly. The might as well nationalise the banks if that's the case.Wah... one lender in Singapore... :scared-4:
Wah... one lender in Singapore... :scared-4:
foreign banks can balek kampong if that's the case.
bargain hunter
17-04-12, 08:08
i read somewhere that there was a suggestion to set a base residential mortgage interest rate (did not say 2% as base of course) to fight the so-called property bubble, so was wondering how feasible it was. :beats-me-man:
Pretty useless measure if you ask me. If they are primarily for investment and rental. The owners will pass the cost on the the tenant. Then we are back to square one.
Let's come back and revisit the situation in a few years time.
In 1997, Bishan broke historical high records for properties in heartland. Some said, a new era and Singapore was undergoing decentralizing stage and Bishan will be a new city centre. Verdict was - Bishan remained as a heartland and has never been one of the new city centre
This year in 2012, Bishan is currently breaking another new milestone for properties in heartland. Again, people said - a new era and Singapore is undergoing decentralizing stage and Bishan will be a new city centre.
Will Bishan be a new city centre or history will repeat itself?
We shall see...........
Anyone who is still thinking that bishan is the new city centre must be dreaming. There aren't even much plans to enhance the infrastructure around the area. If there was a parcel in the heart of TPY, the developers will probably price it like SH.
phantom_opera
17-04-12, 08:27
Do u think odd shape units in interlace and d leedon are the main reasons why cannot sell well?
Do u think odd shape units in interlace and d leedon are the main reasons why cannot sell well?
I wouldn't want to live in one of those units where there's a container stacked over me and casting a big shadow in my apt.
Yup, Fenghui is bad! :scared-1:
I wouldn't want to live in one of those units where there's a container stacked over me and casting a big shadow in my apt.
Yup, Fenghui is bad! :scared-1:
Yeah they say don't sleep under a beam. This one no matter how you move your bed also can't run away from the beam.
phantom_opera
17-04-12, 08:59
I wouldn't want to live in one of those units where there's a container stacked over me and casting a big shadow in my apt.
how about if you are in the highest container :p
Anyone who is still thinking that bishan is the new city centre must be dreaming. There aren't even much plans to enhance the infrastructure around the area. If there was a parcel in the heart of TPY, the developers will probably price it like SH.Yup... just move up a bit from Bishan and you have the Paya Lebar Financial hub but still can't feel it yet... :)
i read somewhere that there was a suggestion to set a base residential mortgage interest rate (did not say 2% as base of course) to fight the so-called property bubble, so was wondering how feasible it was. :beats-me-man:
this works against the essence of the anti-competition act. if the courts can haul up companies for colluding to set prices, then the banks can be taken to task for coming together (by their own volition or MAS-induced) to set interest rates
Rosegarden
17-04-12, 09:29
how about if you are in the highest container :p
Suspended on cantilever at end of container or between two buildings below is not good in feng shui. Empty below...not on firm hold....:tsk-tsk:
Somehow, Interlace looks more like a university campus than a condo..
phantom_opera
17-04-12, 09:31
Suspended on cantilever at end of container or between two buildings below is not good in feng shui. Empty below...not on firm hold....:tsk-tsk:
good point
Let's come back and revisit the situation in a few years time.
In 1997, Bishan broke historical high records for properties in heartland. Some said, a new era and Singapore was undergoing decentralizing stage and Bishan will be a new city centre. Verdict was - Bishan remained as a heartland and has never been one of the new city centre
This year in 2012, Bishan is currently breaking another new milestone for properties in heartland. Again, people said - a new era and Singapore is undergoing decentralizing stage and Bishan will be a new city centre.
Will Bishan be a new city centre or history will repeat itself?
We shall see...........
Bishan was never intended to be the new city centre. those were just the usual agent talk and analyst's justification for high price.
hmm I must say so much hype for this project. I must say.. good luck to the Early Birds.. may they all make $.. but for stay enjoy the big odd shape balcony.
DMG & Partners said the latest residential property project by Southeast Asia's largest property developer, CapitaLand, in Singapore's suburb of Bishan was priced at a lower than expected level.
The broker said the Sky Habitat project, designed by well known architect Moshe Safdie, was priced at between $1,642-1,747 per square foot (psf) which was priced at between $1,642-1,747 per square foot (psf) which was below market expectations of $1,700-1,800 per square foot.
“We believe the take up for the initial project launch is somewhat below our expectations given the good location of the project, and the initial achieved average selling prices are also at the lower end of market expectations of $1,700-S$1,800 psf,” DMG said in a report.
Singapore property prices have rebounded sharply from the steep fall during the global financial crisis in 2009 and record low interest rates have boosted demand.
DMG maintained its neutral rating on CapitaLand with a target price of $3.03 a share. The shares eased 0.3% to $2.94 and have jumped about 33% so far this year, more than double the rise in the broader market.
hmm I must say so much hype for this project. I must say.. good luck to the Early Birds.. may they all make $.. but for stay enjoy the big odd shape balcony.
I am just curious what sort of computation goes in the minds of these brave upgraders.
Among my friends (not from elite group growing tons of monies :-p), we are aiming conservatively to live in one property and enjoy rental from another. Having a 2nd property for rental will be great, but no necessary as we diversify into other asset class.
If we only got one property at sky high prices, it's difficult to encash for retirement as we always need a place to stay? At such high prices, it's never realistic to expect to bunk in with our children. Also, downgrading incurring increasing cost and sacrifices....
I really wonder
Regards
I am just curious what sort of computation goes in the minds of these brave upgraders.
Among my friends (not from elite group growing tons of monies :-p), we are aiming conservatively to live in one property and enjoy rental from another. Having a 2nd property for rental will be great, but no necessary as we diversify into other asset class.
If we only got one property at sky high prices, it's difficult to encash for retirement as we always need a place to stay? At such high prices, it's never realistic to expect to bunk in with our children. Also, downgrading incurring increasing cost and sacrifices....
I really wonder
Regards
I think their mind goes like this:
1. HDB (in Bishan) fully paid. Now probably worth $700-800k. Hold to this and rent out $3k when SH is ready to move in.
2. Cash + CPF = $500k ready savings. At least $5k per month savings (excluding bonuses) = $400-500k cash savings over 5-7 years
3. SH 3 bedder $1.9m, 20% LTV = downpayment + stamp duty about $450k... no problem.
4. Loan 80% = $1.5m over 30 years = $5.5k per month at 2% interest serviced by $3k rental in point 1 above and then OA in CPF another $1k each from husband and wife. Cash top up will be very little (hopefully).
For SH 2 bedder at $1.5m, even easier to work out.
those who bot are in their 30s and not normal financial circumstances
I think their mind goes like this:
1. HDB (in Bishan) fully paid. Now probably worth $700-800k. Hold to this and rent out $3k when SH is ready to move in.
2. Cash + CPF = $500k ready savings. At least $5k per month savings (excluding bonuses) = $400-500k cash savings over 5-7 years
3. SH 3 bedder $1.9m, 20% LTV = downpayment + stamp duty about $450k... no problem.
4. Loan 80% = $1.5m over 30 years = $5.5k per month at 2% interest serviced by $3k rental in point 1 above and then OA in CPF another $1k each from husband and wife. Cash top up will be very little (hopefully).
For SH 2 bedder at $1.5m, even easier to work out.
those who bot are in their 30s and not normal financial circumstances
It is very possible for late 30s to do that. I think CAPL announced 83% of the 125 buyers are singaporean (which means about 100 units are sold to singaporean), age group not mentioned in reports.
It is very possible for late 30s to do that. I think CAPL announced 83% of the 125 buyers are singaporean (which means about 100 units are sold to singaporean), age group not mentioned in reports.
32 sales exec bot 2 and 35 public servant... All these got inheritance
32 sales exec bot 2 and 35 public servant... All these got inheritance
2 (or rather 3 units) out of the 100 or so sold to singaporean... not conclusive enough based on statistics theory. Maybe majority 40+ yr old (or late 30s) buyers...
I think their mind goes like this:
1. HDB (in Bishan) fully paid. Now probably worth $700-800k. Hold to this and rent out $3k when SH is ready to move in.
2. Cash + CPF = $500k ready savings. At least $5k per month savings (excluding bonuses) = $400-500k cash savings over 5-7 years
3. SH 3 bedder $1.9m, 20% LTV = downpayment + stamp duty about $450k... no problem.
4. Loan 80% = $1.5m over 30 years = $5.5k per month at 2% interest serviced by $3k rental in point 1 above and then OA in CPF another $1k each from husband and wife. Cash top up will be very little (hopefully).
For SH 2 bedder at $1.5m, even easier to work out.
So assuming the person who bought the SH is what age? typical age person married is 30. say HDB fully paid out by late 30s? 38 with 30yrs loan means out of loan by 68. So means cannot retire till 68.? what is interest goes up to 3.5%? Would that break the calculation?
In the age where people hitting 40s are consider endanger to be retrench. and to many employers 45s are consider old. and not hirable if out of job.
Maybe CM6 sld target Civil Servants....:D
Joking only ...
32 sales exec bot 2 and 35 public servant... All these got inheritance
So assuming the person who bought the SH is what age? typical age person married is 30. say HDB fully paid out by late 30s? 38 with 30yrs loan means out of loan by 68. So means cannot retire till 68.? what is interest goes up to 3.5%? Would that break the calculation?
In the age where people hitting 40s are consider endanger to be retrench. and to many employers 45s are consider old. and not hirable if out of job.
Those who bot SH are not the "typical" kind... probably they have paid off their HDB by mid to late 30s (very possible when HDB cost only $300k for 5 rooms, and loan amount $200k++). Their pay is also not the "typical" range, i would say $15-20k household income. very possible.
review from h88
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/CapitaLand's+Sky+Habitat+at+Bishan+-+suburban+condo+at+city+prices/
Thanks for the link. Some interesting things I observe from the write up:
---------------------------
There are 509 units here in various forms beginning from 1+1BRs. Most notable of which are the Terrace units which have giant sized balconies (and - to clarify - normal height ceilings). All units here are released for sale, the developers have not held back any choice units, which is pretty nice unlike some other developers we know.
The prices for an 11th floor, 1,023sqft, 2+1BR start at $1.65m before discounts. After a 4% discount, it comes to $1.58m or $1,551 psf. A larger 3BR, 1,247sqft unit on the same floor will cost you $1.91m before discounts. After a 4% discount, it comes to $1.837m or $1,473psf.
Obviously those prices are not in sync with the rest of Bishan.
Bishan 8 (http://www.h88.com.sg/directory/condo/Bishan+8/)
, a 12-year old, 99-year leasehold condo just opposite Junction 8 and Bishan MRT had two units recently sold at for a median price of $1,146psf.
If you have $2m to spare, there are plenty of other condos in regions closer to the CBD that should come under your radar. We can think of some like:
Ascentia Sky (http://www.h88.com.sg/article/Condo+Review%3A+Ascentia+Sky+by+Tanglin/) (2009, opposite Redhill MRT, about $1,400psf)
D'Leedon (http://www.h88.com.sg/index.php?page=1&tag=D%27LEEDON) (2010, Holland Road, about $1,600psf)
Reflections at Keppel (TOP 2011, around $1800psf. You pay a bit more but you get an awesome sea view and a condo designed by an architect more power than Moshe Safdie - Daniel Liebskind - the designer of the new
Soleil at Sinaran (TOP 2012, around $1800psf. At Novena MRT and the surrounding malls)
And according to latest report on 16 April 2012 from CNA (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1195391/1/.html): "as of 6pm on Sunday, it sold 70 per cent of the 180 units launched for sale this weekend. The developer said eight in 10 buyers are Singaporeans. Eighty-one per cent of units sold were two- and three-bedroom units. Said to be the most expensive suburban condominium here, the development in Bishan Central is going for S$1,642 psf for a four-bedroom unit to S$1,747 psf for a one-room unit."
So what do we think?
It's very over-priced. Sure you get to live in an iconic building, sure you get some nice views, sure you get to live next to the Junction 8 and Bishan MRT, but is it really worth THAT much?
For a bit more you can get a new unit at Reflections at Keppel or Soleil at Sinaran - both have a more upmarket vibe. No matter what, Bishan is still Bishan. It doesn't evoke the same as Newton, Keppel or River Valley.
From an investment point of view, at this price point, do you forsee prices going any higher? There are better options elsewhere.
That said, there is no doubting the quality of the developers, the wonderful design and the excellent location of this condo.
Much like how the Empire State Building was a sign of New York's pomp and prime in the days before the Great Depression, Sky Habitat is a sign of much that is askew about the state of Singapore's property market. It is overheating, it is unhealthy, that's why we get blips like Sky Habitat - it simply does not belong.
This 'gentrification' of Bishan though unavoidable is not something we'd like to see. Condos like Sky Habitat bring strong inflationary pressure to the potential and existing homes around the area. We won't be surprised to see the land next to Sky Habitat going for similar rates. But for the sake of all aspiring home owners and HDB upgraders, let's hope it doesn't happen. Heartland homes for heartlanders at heartland prices - that's what we all want to see.
---------------------------
review from h88
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/CapitaLand's+Sky+Habitat+at+Bishan+-+suburban+condo+at+city+prices/
dun worry, I'm confident it will not sell more than 50% in the near term. ;)
Wild Falcon
17-04-12, 14:23
Yah. My guess and hearsay is correct then. All units released for sale but they solve backwards to achieve the 70% snapped up stats to look good. Don't agree this project "gentrifies" Bishan - Bishan has always been very clinical - when I think of Bishan Central I think of the MRT depot and Junction 8 and the on-the-ground MRT station. No pretty but neither dirty. the more I look at the model of the building, the more I think its not at all iconic. Having said that, River Valley and Soleil area are concrete jungles - doesn't have any upmarket vibe nowadays.
Regardless of River Valley and Soleil area are concrete jungles or not, Do you agree that they are:
1) No HDB flats in sight for at least 1km
2) No big big transmissions towers which are known to be bad for your health (e.g. vs Hillview area)
3) No pollution from heavy industries (e.g. vs so-called JLD) where the micro particles from these heavy industries are known to be biggest cause of lung cancers.
In view of above, River Valley and Soleil area are much better than HillView or JLD or some other places where health is the biggest concern and people want to get away from the even denser concrete jungles and low-market human crowds in those HDB areas. :p
Yah. My guess and hearsay is correct then. All units released for sale but they solve backwards to achieve the 70% snapped up stats to look good. Don't agree this project "gentrifies" Bishan - Bishan has always been very clinical - when I think of Bishan Central I think of the MRT depot and Junction 8 and the on-the-ground MRT station. No pretty but neither dirty. the more I look at the model of the building, the more I think its not at all iconic. Having said that, River Valley and Soleil area are concrete jungles - doesn't have any upmarket vibe nowadays.
Eldenfirefly
17-04-12, 15:08
The giant sized terrace just doesn't seem very practical. Singapore weather so hot and humid. Only in evenings and at night, then it gets cool enough to enjoy them. Plus you want some kind of amazing view for such a big terrace. But you don't really get it. This kind of terrace design reminds me of the Cliff balconeys at Santorini. But the weather there is much cooler and less humid, plus those cliffs overlook a harbour with clear blue water, and they are really high.
Maybe the view at the above 30th floor will be fantastic, because you can see the other terraces slooping downwards. But again, you will only enjoy that in the evenings and at night. Rest of the time, it will just simply be too hot.
So assuming the person who bought the SH is what age? typical age person married is 30. say HDB fully paid out by late 30s? 38 with 30yrs loan means out of loan by 68. So means cannot retire till 68.? what is interest goes up to 3.5%? Would that break the calculation?
In the age where people hitting 40s are consider endanger to be retrench. and to many employers 45s are consider old. and not hirable if out of job.
No wonder I feel old and laggard already. More and more young and coming rich ones like Price and I think Graveyard around....
Maybe CM6 sld target Civil Servants....:D
Joking only ...
Cannot buy private property below 40 regardless married or single. 30 can buy hdb of any size but 10yr MOP.
Somehow, Interlace looks more like a university campus than a condo..
Rumour has it PSA tg pagar will buy up the remaining blocks as accommodation for mid and high level staff... So they can feel at home both at and after work.
Let's come back and revisit the situation in a few years time.
In 1997, Bishan broke historical high records for properties in heartland. Some said, a new era and Singapore was undergoing decentralizing stage and Bishan will be a new city centre. Verdict was - Bishan remained as a heartland and has never been one of the new city centre
This year in 2012, Bishan is currently breaking another new milestone for properties in heartland. Again, people said - a new era and Singapore is undergoing decentralizing stage and Bishan will be a new city centre.
Will Bishan be a new city centre or history will repeat itself?
We shall see...........
I vote nay....
review from h88
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/CapitaLand's+Sky+Habitat+at+Bishan+-+suburban+condo+at+city+prices/
The 1st photo reminds me of this
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wcjPZ-qJFvE/RoZhvZgaZ-I/AAAAAAAAA58/wlBnf-YsFpM/s1600-h/blk29.jpg
nostalgic...from havelock....the balconies looked familiar too.
Anyone who is still thinking that bishan is the new city centre must be dreaming. There aren't even much plans to enhance the infrastructure around the area. If there was a parcel in the heart of TPY, the developers will probably price it like SH.
Bishan - Fat hope. already so developed.
I say the Bidarri and Potong Pasir area will be the new city centre in 10 -15 years time.
Why ? it is right at the heart of Singapore , just at the City fringe extension of CBD, plenty of time for town planners to develop something special ...
:D :D
Wild Falcon
17-04-12, 15:44
Fort Canning got one big tranmission tower. Sentosa also a lot of towers. Bukit timah hill of course got tower becos its a hill that doesn't have buildings around. Drive out PIE exit into Stevens one big monopole.
BTW, mobile networks are everywhere lah. just because no tower doesn't mean no signal. It means its on top of the buildings. The GREATEST concentration of base stations is in the city. You don't see towers? its because it on top of the buildings. when there are many buildings, telecom companies wont waste money to build towers. They just rent a small space on top of building.
Check your phone got signal or not. Anyway, this is out of topic. We are talking about Bishan.
Regardless of River Valley and Soleil area are concrete jungles or not, Do you agree that they are:
1) No HDB flats in sight for at least 1km
2) No big big transmissions towers which are known to be bad for your health (e.g. vs Hillview area)
3) No pollution from heavy industries (e.g. vs so-called JLD) where the micro particles from these heavy industries are known to be biggest cause of lung cancers.
In view of above, River Valley and Soleil area are much better than HillView or JLD or some other places where health is the biggest concern and people want to get away from the even denser concrete jungles and low-market human crowds in those HDB areas. :p
Rosegarden
17-04-12, 15:47
This kind of terrace design reminds me of the Cliff balconeys at Santorini. .....
Spot on! they had a giant poster of Santorini on the ramp to the show flats.
They should serve some ouzo to complete the effect...:)
Yup, Fenghui is bad! :scared-1:
seriously you know fengshui or u casual remark?
phantom_opera
17-04-12, 15:54
Bishan - Fat hope. already so developed.
I say the Bidarri and Potong Pasir area will be the new city centre in 10 -15 years time.
Why ? it is right at the heart of Singapore , just at the City fringe extension of CBD, plenty of time for town planners to develop something special ...
:D :D
I thought future HDB is there ... how to be city centre??
hmm so bullish in this area.. say something happen... within the next 12mths.. i.e. another lehman like scenario. Credit crunch.. those people that bought with a bullish view get hit. i.e. retrench.
Housing price plunge... say say 20% so SH becomes $1280psf. Interest spike up to 3-4% . Then buyer run into finiancial crunch. End up force to sell..
with 20% down and the ABSD penalty coz 1st yr being 16% ... total that is 36% down + 3% stamp.. thats 39% down..
a $2M 2 bedder seller looses 880K.. not considering 1% pay agent fees ;)
hmm would be challenging times won't that be?
These towers are different.
Those on top of buildings are mostly mobile repeaters with lower wattages.
Those on top of BT hill and BB hill are high wattages transmitters.
My friend's friends previously live in HillView area and keep complaining of headache, giddiness etc. After shifting out of HillView area, the headache and giddiness disappeared. Those people they know got several cases like these. Seem to be the effect of these transmission towers.
May be some radio engineers can confirm?
Fort Canning got one big tranmission tower. Sentosa also a lot of towers. Bukit timah hill of course got tower becos its a hill that doesn't have buildings around. Drive out PIE exit into Stevens one big monopole.
BTW, mobile networks are everywhere lah. just because no tower doesn't mean no signal. It means its on top of the buildings. The GREATEST concentration of base stations is in the city. You don't see towers? its because it on top of the buildings. when there are many buildings, telecom companies wont waste money to build towers. They just rent a small space on top of building.
Check your phone got signal or not. Anyway, this is out of topic. We are talking about Bishan.
Got fengshui shi-fu to advise, after a long time learnt quite some skills from him.... :ashamed1:
seriously you know fengshui or u casual remark?
going by your example, something must occur to make the seller want to take a hit of 40%. after the lehman crisis, i don't recall seeing lots of resale or subsale going at 40% discount. most were just languishing at previous peaks or slightly below. well, my memory could have failed me though
going by your example, something must occur to make the seller want to take a hit of 40%. after the lehman crisis, i don't recall seeing lots of resale or subsale going at 40% discount. most were just languishing at previous peaks or slightly below. well, my memory could have failed me though
saying as worst case.. loose job and interesting spiking plus running our of buffer funds i.e. pay installment plus daily living cost.
might not be many but some over leverage person will have this problem.
Not forgetting the 40s might get retrench. This middle class are sometime too junior for senior roles and senior for junior roles. Thus stuck for a while. I have seen many during the last recession some taking up to 8mths -12mths before getting a new job. might not be the same pay as the original job. thus taking a pay cut. 40s is not a very safe age.
hmm so bullish in this area.. say something happen... within the next 12mths.. i.e. another lehman like scenario. Credit crunch.. those people that bought with a bullish view get hit. i.e. retrench.
Housing price plunge... say say 20% so SH becomes $1280psf. Interest spike up to 3-4% . Then buyer run into finiancial crunch. End up force to sell..
with 20% down and the ABSD penalty coz 1st yr being 16% ... total that is 36% down + 3% stamp.. thats 39% down..
a $2M 2 bedder seller looses 880K.. not considering 1% pay agent fees ;)
hmm would be challenging times won't that be?
Yes, there is a chance that may happen.
However, a typical investment (whether it is individual or by a corporation), no one does an analysis based on "worst case scenario" that is so so bad. Say for an investment into an Oil Tanker, if you factor in a scenario that your investment (ie. the oil tanker) will ran aground and caused a major oil spill, then don't need to do any investment liao and that one incident will cause the whole company to bankrupt. Similarly for individual, would anyone buy into any ppty if he thinks his household income will be zero when he thinks both himself and his spouse will lose their jobs.
If there is someone who uses a dooms-day assumption, then he/she is a distressed asset player waiting for the entry point.
going by your example, something must occur to make the seller want to take a hit of 40%. after the lehman crisis, i don't recall seeing lots of resale or subsale going at 40% discount. most were just languishing at previous peaks or slightly below. well, my memory could have failed me though
There are some.. if u look at the peak price.. I remember Reflection at some point for a short while 1400psf(peak then 1700-2000), rivergate 1100 ( peak 1600), Seaview 1100(peak 1600-1700).
There are some.. if u look at the peak price.. I remember Reflection at some point for a short while 1400psf(peak then 1700-2000), rivergate 1100 ( peak 1600), Seaview 1100(peak 1600-1700).
i'm sure there will be some. just that all the units i saw during the trough weren't going at 40%. i remember clearly being offered high floor 2/3BR units at montebleu as the investment company (that snapped up lots of units) wanted to cut losses. the price was, at best, close to the peak
i'm sure there will be some. just that all the units i saw during the trough weren't going at 40%. i remember clearly being offered high floor 2/3BR units at montebleu as the investment company (that snapped up lots of units) wanted to cut losses. the price was, at best, close to the peak
well just have to look quick ;) Clift was also going 1100psf in the crisis. looking back its shopping galore....!
Wild Falcon
17-04-12, 16:38
True. But also cannot invest based on "best case". I think entry in this price, can only make money in "best case scenario".
Yes, there is a chance that may happen.
However, a typical investment (whether it is individual or by a corporation), no one does an analysis based on "worst case scenario" that is so so bad. Say for an investment into an Oil Tanker, if you factor in a scenario that your investment (ie. the oil tanker) will ran aground and caused a major oil spill, then don't need to do any investment liao and that one incident will cause the whole company to bankrupt. Similarly for individual, would anyone buy into any ppty if he thinks his household income will be zero when he thinks both himself and his spouse will lose their jobs.
If there is someone who uses a dooms-day assumption, then he/she is a distressed asset player waiting for the entry point.
True. But also cannot invest based on "best case". I think entry in this price, can only make money in "best case scenario".
Well, i didn't say invest based on "best case"....
Is assuming himself continuing to have a job a "best case scenerio"? This is debatable.
Moreover, going by the various reports/discussions, it seems that the majority buying the SH is not to make money, it is for their self-stay.
Yes, there is a chance that may happen.
However, a typical investment (whether it is individual or by a corporation), no one does an analysis based on "worst case scenario" that is so so bad. Say for an investment into an Oil Tanker, if you factor in a scenario that your investment (ie. the oil tanker) will ran aground and caused a major oil spill, then don't need to do any investment liao and that one incident will cause the whole company to bankrupt. Similarly for individual, would anyone buy into any ppty if he thinks his household income will be zero when he thinks both himself and his spouse will lose their jobs.
If there is someone who uses a dooms-day assumption, then he/she is a distressed asset player waiting for the entry point.
Yes this is the worst case. To me SH is the best best case limited upside and very potential downside if got weak hand.
Yes this is the worst case. To me SH is the best best case limited upside and very potential downside if got weak hand.
Not Watertown?
Not Watertown?
Watertown is lousy buy. At least with SH if can hold still better then WT. At least Bishan is a more mature location. Plus design is unique. good amount of 2-3 bedders. Just as long not financially strap is still better buy than WT with all the MMs in a ulu area.
So many ppl buy SH 3bds, I guess most for own stay, so it's just a matter of personal judgment of affordability.
for watertown, wow, more than 60% all investors , gambling big time..
Watertown is lousy buy. At least with SH if can hold still better then WT. At least Bishan is a more mature location. Plus design is unique. good amount of 2-3 bedders. Just as long not financially strap is still better buy than WT with all the MMs in a ulu area.
Ok, your points have some logical merits....so u rank WT followed by SH as the worst worst buy.
So many ppl buy SH 3bds, I guess most for own stay, so it's just a matter of personal judgment of affordability.
for watertown, wow, more than 60% all investors , gambling big time..
I personally know 2 currently staying in Punggol with parents, still single and in their early 40s bot into 1 and 2 bedder in watertown respectively for their own stay. Can't say they are gambling for this case.
Yes this is the worst case. To me SH is the best best case limited upside and very potential downside if got weak hand.
Finally understand the design rationale. If owner lose money and jump from balcony, at least guarantee wont die as floor below balcony juts out to "catch" you. Cant comment for those who jump from sky pool. Maybe if still have some luck left the lower level skybridges can catch you.... (Flame incoming... Hide!!!!!)
going by your example, something must occur to make the seller want to take a hit of 40%. after the lehman crisis, i don't recall seeing lots of resale or subsale going at 40% discount. most were just languishing at previous peaks or slightly below. well, my memory could have failed me though
Well times have changeable. Pre Lehman we didn't t have absd. Now we have absd. The slippery slope got slipper. Maybe during Lehman property lost is 20%. but now becoz absd there is a double whammy.
So have weak hands better don't play. Big boys game.
Say for example. Like the 44 people in the news. The high fliers suddenly no job. Cannot find work. Impending case. if add in interest,movement die.
Do u think they plan for this?
phantom_opera
17-04-12, 18:30
Well times have changeable. Pre Lehman we didn't t have absd. Now we have absd. The slippery slope got slipper. Maybe during Lehman property lost is 20%. but now becoz absd there is a double whammy.
So have weak hands better don't play. Big boys game.
Say for example. Like the 44 people in the news. The high fliers suddenly no job. Cannot find work. Impending case. if add in interest,movement die.
Do u think they plan for this?
The pimp is a rich guy who owns many cos ... money not enough sigh
The pimp is a rich guy who owns many cos ... money not enough sigh
So how anyone ask got fire sales a not?
So assuming the person who bought the SH is what age? typical age person married is 30. say HDB fully paid out by late 30s? 38 with 30yrs loan means out of loan by 68. So means cannot retire till 68.? what is interest goes up to 3.5%? Would that break the calculation?
In the age where people hitting 40s are consider endanger to be retrench. and to many employers 45s are consider old. and not hirable if out of job.
I think the loan tenor cannot go beyond one's 65th birthday. i.e. If I am 40 now, max loan tenor is 25 years.
I guess people forget that mortgage rates used to hit 5% some years ago, and too young to remember it could hit as high as 10%.
When I say stay 1 and rent out 1 conservatively, I fail to add I have cash and CPF for at least 1 year of installments.
Am I being too risk averse here?????
Regards
Why so rich still live in HDB?
The pimp is a rich guy who owns many cos ... money not enough sigh
phantom_opera
17-04-12, 19:37
The pimp very capable ... recruit mei mei (only 1 is Korean, the rest Singaporeans) and set up web service, sell it to professionals WOW
May be he wanted to buy one a few Sky Habitat but vitamin M not enough ...
Well times have changeable. Pre Lehman we didn't t have absd. Now we have absd. The slippery slope got slipper. Maybe during Lehman property lost is 20%. but now becoz absd there is a double whammy.
So have weak hands better don't play. Big boys game.
Say for example. Like the 44 people in the news. The high fliers suddenly no job. Cannot find work. Impending case. if add in interest,movement die.
Do u think they plan for this?
govt policies can come and go, depending whether the situation calls for it. all these CMs can just go poof if there's a sudden deep downturn. i don't think we will have a lehman-scale crash in the coming 1-2 years and hence, i would use it as a benchmark
bargain hunter
17-04-12, 20:49
i think its 70 years old. 40 year old should be able to borrow till 30 year tenor at the MAX.
I think the loan tenor cannot go beyond one's 65th birthday. i.e. If I am 40 now, max loan tenor is 25 years.
I guess people forget that mortgage rates used to hit 5% some years ago, and too young to remember it could hit as high as 10%.
When I say stay 1 and rent out 1 conservatively, I fail to add I have cash and CPF for at least 1 year of installments.
Am I being too risk averse here?????
Regards
speculator
17-04-12, 20:50
govt policies can come and go, depending whether the situation calls for it. all these CMs can just go poof if there's a sudden deep downturn. i don't think we will have a lehman-scale crash in the coming 1-2 years and hence, i would use it as a benchmark
if you're already a home owner or already in the market, the more CMs the better it is. If there's any downturn, Govt could stop GLS, remove CMs one by one.
if you're not already in the market, CMs might make it harder for you to enter
i think its 70 years old. 40 year old should be able to borrow till 30 year tenor at the MAX.
OCBC is up to 75 years. Not sure about the others,
Banks like Standard Chartered and ANZ are up to 75 years.
OCBC is up to 75 years. Not sure about the others,
realistically, should anyone take loan up to 75?
realistically, should anyone take loan up to 75?
Nope. Because by the time you actually own your house, it is almost time to leave.
realistically, should anyone take loan up to 75?
Stretch out as long as possible. Coz u gonna sell it off before that for profit anyway...
NICE ARTICLE FROM H88.COM WEB SITE
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/CapitaLand%27s+Sky+Habitat+at+Bishan+-+suburban+condo+at+city+prices/
From an investment point of view, at this price point, do you forsee prices going any higher? There are better options elsewhere.
That said, there is no doubting the quality of the developers, the wonderful design and the excellent location of this condo.
Much like how the Empire State Building was a sign of New York's pomp and prime in the days before the Great Depression, Sky Habitat is a sign of much that is askew about the state of Singapore's property market. It is overheating, it is unhealthy, that's why we get blips like Sky Habitat - it simply does not belong.
This 'gentrification' of Bishan though unavoidable is not something we'd like to see.
Condos like Sky Habitat bring strong inflationary pressure to the potential and existing homes around the area. We won't be surprised to see the land next to Sky Habitat going for similar rates. But for the sake of all aspiring home owners and HDB upgraders, let's hope it doesn't happen. Heartland homes for heartlanders at heartland prices - that's what we all want to see.
Allthepies
17-04-12, 22:48
In view of above, River Valley and Soleil area are much better than HillView or JLD or some other places where health is the biggest concern and people want to get away from the even denser concrete jungles and low-market human crowds in those HDB areas. :p
if u want the most real greenery, the central reserve area and the north western part of Singapore has the most greenery. RV, Soleil area are just concrete jungle :D
NICE ARTICLE FROM H88.COM WEB SITE
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/CapitaLand%27s+Sky+Habitat+at+Bishan+-+suburban+condo+at+city+prices/
From an investment point of view, at this price point, do you forsee prices going any higher? There are better options elsewhere.
That said, there is no doubting the quality of the developers, the wonderful design and the excellent location of this condo.
Much like how the Empire State Building was a sign of New York's pomp and prime in the days before the Great Depression, Sky Habitat is a sign of much that is askew about the state of Singapore's property market. It is overheating, it is unhealthy, that's why we get blips like Sky Habitat - it simply does not belong.
This 'gentrification' of Bishan though unavoidable is not something we'd like to see.
Condos like Sky Habitat bring strong inflationary pressure to the potential and existing homes around the area. We won't be surprised to see the land next to Sky Habitat going for similar rates. But for the sake of all aspiring home owners and HDB upgraders, let's hope it doesn't happen. Heartland homes for heartlanders at heartland prices - that's what we all want to see.
Price is just a matter of supply and demand. If there is demand for CCR price in heartland, there will be supply.
No need lah, Botanic Garden is nearby. You should just go and take a look - really 1 of the most beautiful garden in the world!
if u want the most real greenery, the central reserve area and the north western part of Singapore has the most greenery. RV, Soleil area are just concrete jungle :D
NICE ARTICLE FROM H88.COM WEB SITE
http://www.h88.com.sg/article/CapitaLand%27s+Sky+Habitat+at+Bishan+-+suburban+condo+at+city+prices/
From an investment point of view, at this price point, do you forsee prices going any higher? There are better options elsewhere.
That said, there is no doubting the quality of the developers, the wonderful design and the excellent location of this condo.
Much like how the Empire State Building was a sign of New York's pomp and prime in the days before the Great Depression, Sky Habitat is a sign of much that is askew about the state of Singapore's property market. It is overheating, it is unhealthy, that's why we get blips like Sky Habitat - it simply does not belong.
This 'gentrification' of Bishan though unavoidable is not something we'd like to see.
Condos like Sky Habitat bring strong inflationary pressure to the potential and existing homes around the area. We won't be surprised to see the land next to Sky Habitat going for similar rates. But for the sake of all aspiring home owners and HDB upgraders, let's hope it doesn't happen. Heartland homes for heartlanders at heartland prices - that's what we all want to see.
We are in the midst of a mini-bull run now. There are some very good GLS plots bought last year and also to be released to push launch prices to a new level. My projection of $1800 psf for OCR condos near MRT stations by 2020 was too pessimistic :scared-4:
We are in the midst of a mini-bull run now. There are some very good GLS plots bought last year and also to be released to push launch prices to a new level. My projection of $1800 psf for OCR condos near MRT stations by 2020 was too pessimistic :scared-4:
With the goverment push to increase salaries n limiting labour import cost of building are not going to go down much either. I think we are entering a era of hyper inflation .
phantom_opera
18-04-12, 08:50
Garmen Policy is the ultimare source of inflation, medical clinic sky high rental, crazy Coe, reits, monopoly of transport operators, media, refuse to let go of gls if not enough bidders all point to inflation
Investment in signaling in mrt, higher Coe for taxis and buses, escalating cost of maids ...
The main driver for inflation is the amount of QE by the world's central banks.
phantom_opera
18-04-12, 09:03
If not lta miscalculated Coe quota, Coe won't be so high now
If not nea stopped building hawker centers, food court won't be so ex now
If not hdb underbuilding, we do not have sky high hdb prices now
If not gls keeps rejecting bids, land prices will not be so high now
If not garmen support reits, rental at retail malls won't b so high now, the list goes on
Stretch out as long as possible. Coz u gonna sell it off before that for profit anyway...
quite true... so at least must put money into 2 houses so can sell one come old age. most people downgrade instead which IMO is not as good option...:D
Wild Falcon
18-04-12, 10:07
Man-made lah with fake ponds and clinical pruned trees and themed park style sections. Some people prefer nature in its wild and untouched state. And got to jostle with others and fight for parking. Not exactly ideal for relaxation. Haha. But the worst is the $1 billion fake river in Bishan Park - seriously that muddy plain doens't look like it worth $1 billion of taxpayers money.
No need lah, Botanic Garden is nearby. You should just go and take a look - really 1 of the most beautiful garden in the world!
Man-made lah with fake ponds and clinical pruned trees and themed park style sections. Some people prefer nature in its wild and untouched state. And got to jostle with others and fight for parking. Not exactly ideal for relaxation. Haha. But the worst is the $1 billion fake river in Bishan Park - seriously that muddy plain doens't look like it worth $1 billion of taxpayers money.
$1 billion seriously? Taxpayers need to scrutinise the bills.
if u want the most real greenery, the central reserve area and the north western part of Singapore has the most greenery. RV, Soleil area are just concrete jungle :D
The Raintree condo will be the one for you. :D Last time first launch 500psf only. :banghead:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=536
Wild Falcon
18-04-12, 10:29
$1.2 billion to be exact. Total waste of taxpayers money. I guess maybe that's why Bishan huat ah! Haha. $1.2bn for one fake river - maybe really boost their property price.
EXERPT from CNA:-
SINGAPORE: Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said this election is about voting for the party that can serve Singaporeans best.
In his first rally speech on Friday night in Ang Mo Kio constituency, PM Lee said the National Wages Council recommendations released on Friday for "higher total wages" for Singaporeans show that despite the last five tumultuous years, Singapore is doing well.
Mr Lee assured Singaporeans that the government will take care of all Singaporeans, including the low— and middle—income group.
He dealt squarely with the issues which the Opposition has picked on, such as the cost of living, and the affordability of housing.
"Everyone (is) feeling the pinch of the cost of living because energy prices go up, electricity prices go up and it’s not cheap compared to last year, even more, compared to two or three years ago.
"We have a ’Grow & Share’ package this year to address these problems and to help Singaporeans.
"For example, to help with the utilities bills, we have more U—Save this year, we have more S&CC rebates this year.
"In fact, the U—save for some households should be enough to pay for five months of utilities bills so if you are careful, it can go a long way.
Mr Lee promised that HDB flats will be kept affordable, especially for young couples.
But he also added the government needs to safeguard the value of current HDB flats and enhance them.
"The reality is, we will promise you that if you are buying a flat from the HDB, we will keep the prices affordable, because we building flats for Singaporeans and we want Singaporeans to be able to own that flat," Mr Lee said.
"And we will make sure Singaporeans can afford these flats."
Speaking at the same rally, PAP candidate for Ang Mo Kio GRC Inderjit Singh said residents should rate Members of Parliament (MPs) not just according to how well they speak in Parliament.
They should also focus on the work that gets done behind—the—scenes.
Mr Singh recalled how in the past he ensured every housing estate would have lift floor indicators.
He also asked PUB to provide every household with sandbags following the floods in July last year.
Mr Singh added that in future, Ang Mo Kio residents will also see a renovated park.
"We are upgrading Bishan Park. In a few months, you (will) have a new river in Singapore, the newest river running along Bishan Park.
"That is something that our residents in Ang Mo Kio will be enjoying.
"And do you know how much this is going to cost? It’s going to cost S$1.2 billion in the next five years —— double of what we spent in the last five years.
"So the Ang Mo Kio team is committed to (making) Ang Mo Kio even better for all of our residents".
$1 billion seriously? Taxpayers need to scrutinise the bills.
New launch private property prices won't be so high now If not:
1) govt introduce 60% LTV in the name of so-called "cooling measure" but really makes no difference to new launch since new launch buyers still pay 20% downpayment and 20% deferred payment for 3 years (regardless of 80% LTV or 60% LTV!)
2) didn't take any action on developers' cash-backs, furniture vouchers (a form of cash back and yet buyers can get higher % of bank loan) etc :doh:
3) Allow HDB flat owners to rent out whole HDB flats resulting in hogging of HDB flats after owners moved to condos resulting in insufficient supply of resale HDB flats and hence almost $1m resale HDB flat prices.... :banghead:
4) If not govt charging so-called market rates pegged to malls in food courts rather than subsidized rates you won't have so expensive hawker food now! (price may stay about same but the portion of ingredients shrunk by half!). :scared-1:
If not lta miscalculated Coe quota, Coe won't be so high now
If not nea stopped building hawker centers, food court won't be so ex now
If not hdb underbuilding, we do not have sky high hdb prices now
If not gls keeps rejecting bids, land prices will not be so high now
If not garmen support reits, rental at retail malls won't b so high now, the list goes on
Bishan Park's makeover is $76M, not $1B.
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/image/20120215/ST_IMAGES_KTBISHAN16.jpg
If Botanic Garden is a >120 years old (think about 150 years old?) garden, people still care man-made or not when it is 1 of the most beautiful garden in the world? I believe all the current "nature" are also man-made in certain ways, being chopped away here and there and soon many will be gone as well, except the 150 years old Botanic Garden which will continue to remain in history and real world because of historical reasons and the only best maintained and preserved history of Singapore.... :p
Botanic Garden is man-made or not, you can't deny that you can't man-made another garden with 150 years old trees in the garden easily, whether in Singapore or anywhere in the world.... :tongue3:
Man-made lah with fake ponds and clinical pruned trees and themed park style sections. Some people prefer nature in its wild and untouched state. And got to jostle with others and fight for parking. Not exactly ideal for relaxation. Haha. But the worst is the $1 billion fake river in Bishan Park - seriously that muddy plain doens't look like it worth $1 billion of taxpayers money.
If not lta miscalculated Coe quota, Coe won't be so high now
If not nea stopped building hawker centers, food court won't be so ex now
If not hdb underbuilding, we do not have sky high hdb prices now
If not gls keeps rejecting bids, land prices will not be so high now
If not garmen support reits, rental at retail malls won't b so high now, the list goes on
if u had not vote miw, u wouodnt b ranting now....
Eldenfirefly
18-04-12, 13:01
Based on the higher number of 2 bedder, 3 bedder and 4 bedder for SH though, it may be that they attract more people who are intending to buy for stay. If that's the case, then SH's high psf may not drop much because these people will have holding power. See Bishan 8. Same thing, its more people who are staying that bought it, so end up, the psf don't really drop much, but it don't go high either.
See Bishan 8? Is that the one (or another condo in Bishan?) where buyers bought at about $1000 psf price (the highest of all suburb condos during that time) in 1997 and never see their price rise above water again for 15 years until recently? :beats-me-man:
Looks like Bishan is a place famous for many such buyers? :doh:
Based on the higher number of 2 bedder, 3 bedder and 4 bedder for SH though, it may be that they attract more people who are intending to buy for stay. If that's the case, then SH's high psf may not drop much because these people will have holding power. See Bishan 8. Same thing, its more people who are staying that bought it, so end up, the psf don't really drop much, but it don't go high either.
Bishan Park's makeover is $76M, not $1B.
$76m is also ridiculous in my opinion. i wonder if such expense is itemised and available to the public to scrutinise it.
$76m is also ridiculous in my opinion. i wonder if such expense is itemised and available to the public to scrutinise it.Same argument when it comes to car repairs and claims... spoke to car mechanics and prior experiences tell me that a $1k car repair job can become $15k job when the option to claim from insurance companies is opened... no scrutiny is required although we say the surveyor will come and take photos, etc but usually only take photo... nothing else! :scared-4:
Eldenfirefly
18-04-12, 14:41
See Bishan 8? Is that the one (or another condo in Bishan?) where buyers bought at about $1000 psf price (the highest of all suburb condos during that time) in 1997 and never see their price rise above water again for 15 years until recently? :beats-me-man:
Looks like Bishan is a place famous for many such buyers? :doh:
Yep, that's the one. It never move at all for 15 years, but it didn't drop much either. Shrugs, people happy to stay there, is up to them. I think Watertown will be worse. That one may become ghost town when people realise that you can't rent a small 1+1 bedder to an expat if its in Pungol.
Yep, that's the one. It never move at all for 15 years, but it didn't drop much either. Shrugs, people happy to stay there, is up to them. I think Watertown will be worse. That one may become ghost town when people realise that you can't rent a small 1+1 bedder to an expat if its in Pungol.
At least they have paid for 14 years of convenience, no?
speculator
18-04-12, 15:23
$76m is also ridiculous in my opinion. i wonder if such expense is itemised and available to the public to scrutinise it.
Bishan Park Reborn! This Reborn is not cheap :scared-4:
http://imcmsimages.mediacorp.sg/CMSFileserver/documents/006/PDF/20120311/1103FFW002.pdf
http://imcmsimages.mediacorp.sg/CMSFileserver/documents/006/PDF/20120311/1103FFW004.pdf
See Bishan 8? Is that the one (or another condo in Bishan?) where buyers bought at about $1000 psf price (the highest of all suburb condos during that time) in 1997 and never see their price rise above water again for 15 years until recently? :beats-me-man:
Looks like Bishan is a place famous for many such buyers? :doh:
Yeah, history repeats itself in Bishan again. I think Sky Habitat buyers just took over the scenario of Bishan 8 even beat Centrio in AMK liao. :doh: It may take many many years ....:doh: :doh:
Bishan Park Reborn! This Reborn is not cheap :scared-4:
http://imcmsimages.mediacorp.sg/CMSFileserver/documents/006/PDF/20120311/1103FFW002.pdf
http://imcmsimages.mediacorp.sg/CMSFileserver/documents/006/PDF/20120311/1103FFW004.pdf
The only thing nice about the "Reborn" Bishan Park is the view of that Clover by the Park with a nice Mac Donald there....... what a waste that I didn't buy.
The only thing nice about the "Reborn" Bishan Park is the view of that Clover by the Park with a nice Mac Donald there....... what a waste that I didn't buy.
That MacDonalds is a danger zone, bro/sis. Better not to live near it. Especially if you have kids. Remember that CEO of MacDonalds died at a young age from colon cancer. Colon cancer risk is highly linked to diet (food eaten). He admitted that he had eaten a lot of burgers......so don't follow down that road. An occasional treat is OK but not regular exposure to the junk food.
Went to have a look just now... interesting showflat and ID...but the furnishing sucks. The outdoor terrace feels similar to fraser's courtyard home concept.
:D
That MacDonalds is a danger zone, bro/sis. Better not to live near it. Especially if you have kids. Remember that CEO of MacDonalds died at a young age from colon cancer. Colon cancer risk is highly linked to diet (food eaten). He admitted that he had eaten a lot of burgers......so don't follow down that road. An occasional treat is OK but not regular exposure to the junk food.
Haha... luckily i am not a junkie. don't think i had taken more than 20 burgers in my entire life so far.
Went to have a look just now... interesting showflat and ID...but the furnishing sucks. The outdoor terrace feels similar to fraser's courtyard home concept.
:D
Is it crowded on a weekday today?
That MacDonalds is a danger zone, bro/sis. Better not to live near it. Especially if you have kids. Remember that CEO of MacDonalds died at a young age from colon cancer. Colon cancer risk is highly linked to diet (food eaten). He admitted that he had eaten a lot of burgers......so don't follow down that road. An occasional treat is OK but not regular exposure to the junk food.
I actually know someone who prides herself for having bought a hdb flat with McD right downstairs... That even the retired parents also go and eat...
See Bishan 8? Is that the one (or another condo in Bishan?) where buyers bought at about $1000 psf price (the highest of all suburb condos during that time) in 1997 and never see their price rise above water again for 15 years until recently? :beats-me-man:
Looks like Bishan is a place famous for many such buyers? :doh:
What then will you call those who sell Bishan8 to "upgrade" to SH?
At least they have paid for 14 years of convenience, no?
What a big price to pay...
Is it crowded on a weekday today?
Nobody around. btw only 2% discount. :tsk-tsk:
I actually know someone who prides herself for having bought a hdb flat with McD right downstairs... That even the retired parents also go and eat...
I don't see anything wrong with that... I do think it "value-add" a bit to the flats there.
Nobody around. btw only 2% discount. :tsk-tsk:
Thanks. Probably i will go and kpo on weekends then. If not, weekday no one around, the agent will follow me like a leech.
Any idea how many more units sold (from 125units as reported on Sunday)?
I don't see anything wrong with that... I do think it "value-add" a bit to the flats there.
Not so healthy. They can go like few times a week....
speculator
18-04-12, 19:46
govt policies can come and go, depending whether the situation calls for it. all these CMs can just go poof if there's a sudden deep downturn. i don't think we will have a lehman-scale crash in the coming 1-2 years and hence, i would use it as a benchmark
Sometimes CM doesn't only serve the purpose of trying to cool the markets, but also serve the purpose of having policy on hand to minimise losses if markets plummet i.e withdrawing these measures can serve to stimulate the markets when needed.
That was why developed market Central Banks wanted to normalise interest rates at some stage, but economic growth in the Developed Markets had not allowed them to do it for last few years.
probably this project can sell better if it is built up:D
$76m is also ridiculous in my opinion. i wonder if such expense is itemised and available to the public to scrutinise it.
Aiyoh.. No issue lah. The sale of SH land is enuff to pay for this with spare change. Must thank SH owners for sponsoring this park. Hehe :D
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