View Full Version : Watertown....overwhelming response...price cut??
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2012/1/32122/prices-of-units-at-watertown-reduced-5-8-
developer cut 5 to 8%...causing OVERWHELMING response...:confused:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2012/1/32122/prices-of-units-at-watertown-reduced-5-8-
developer cut 5 to 8%...causing OVERWHELMING response...:confused:
Good news!!!I believe it will have snowballing effect!!!
Marking it up high hgh the reduce price don't constitute as cut price to me. More like FEO tactics to use media to hype n sell more of its project. FEO is always bs.
Marking it up high hgh the reduce price don't constitute as cut price to me. More like FEO tactics to use media to hype n sell more of its project. FEO is always bs.
Those working in Marketing or sales must really learn from FEO. They are always fast to react and build the momentum back. Last year, they did the same thing for Waterfront Isle, drop price quick and sharp for a short while, build momentum for demand, then move the price back!
DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool
PS: Me not affliated in anyway with FEO.
rattydrama
19-01-12, 23:21
good to get people excited and get them to commit. Dont forget FEO slogan is buy early to prevent future price increase.
all would be buyers will jump in knowing that FEO will nvr drop price.
all other developers eat grass liao.
c which developer no wan 2 cash out.
sell 2 buyers..like 1 forumer said..pass risk 2 buyers
developer runs faster than buyers
rattydrama
19-01-12, 23:51
c which developer no wan 2 cash out.
sell 2 buyers..like 1 forumer said..pass risk 2 buyers
developer runs faster than buyers
if many developers lower their prices by 20-30% to clear. will be intersting to see who break first.
could be bad for FEO to push so hard... forced many other developers to lower more....
buyer beware....
developers still hv profits fm last fewyrs
smaller or 1 time project developer will suffer
or those who bght land but nt build yet will suffer more..hldg cost
Here is greater proof that govt's weak and miserable attempt to cool property prices through CM5 has failed simply because they only target the investors, like CM4. 4yr SSD, 60% LTV for 2nd mortgage loans and ABSD for 3rd or subsequent properties for locals is simply not addressing the issue. Hillier and now Watertown? Govt is simply too worried to upset 80% of Singaporeans therefore tries to work through the other 20%. Now that it failed over 2 CMs, it is blatantly clear that CM6 should be introduced quickly and targetted at the other 80%. :scared-3: Watch this space...
Then almost everyone will end up hating the govt. I think a lot of S'poreans' "wealth" is locked up in pty, including HDB. A lot of them are also dependent on the pty market for their livelihood. If this avenue of asset enhancement and income generation is reduced significantly or taken away, there will be even more resentment on the ground. The Opposition are sitting pretty here. They don't even have to do anything. The more CMs, the less happy will be the S'poreans. I wonder how many S'poreans are really rejoicing at the CMs and praising the govt? I think most are groaning every time there is a new CM.
Those working in Marketing or sales must really learn from FEO. They are always fast to react and build the momentum back. Last year, they did the same thing for Waterfront Isle, drop price quick and sharp for a short while, build momentum for demand, then move the price back!
DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool
PS: Me not affliated in anyway with FEO.
Haa haa, I was a victim of WFI, bought on CNY. Yes, they gave deep discount with final price to be slightly less than WFG launched 6 months earlier.
Now the psf of watertown with all discounts end up to be only slightly higher than ATT, considering the finishes and location, it seems to be a great deal. Some ATT owners are :banghead:
Then almost everyone will end up hating the govt. I think a lot of S'poreans' "wealth" is locked up in pty, including HDB. A lot of them are also dependent on the pty market for their livelihood. If this avenue of asset enhancement and income generation is reduced significantly or taken away, there will be even more resentment on the ground. The Opposition are sitting pretty here. They don't even have to do anything. The more CMs, the less happy will be the S'poreans. I wonder how many S'poreans are really rejoicing at the CMs and praising the govt? I think most are groaning every time there is a new CM.Can't agree more... there are 2 big issues here.
1. Appreciating asset values is absolutely meaningless if its just paper value. This form of asset enhancement only makes sense for multiple properties owners. Sell high only to buy even higher is not logical and so yes, it'll definitely not win the votes of these group of citizens.
2. Like you rightly pointed out, these CMs are simply making more people unhappy and clearly, CMs directed at the majority of buyers will certainly incur more wrath :simmering:. There is a fundamental problem here. Foresight is the key. If govt have foreseen this sticky business, more should have been done before any need for CM to cool the market. Someone pointed out that 10 years ago, HDB had huge oversupply, resulting in WIS. Then a sudden undersupply that spiked housing prices to sky high figures and now trying to oversupply again. What is this? A game of see-saw or an apparent lack of foresight by the relevant authorities? :doh:
Within just five hours yesterday, over 160 of the 250 units released were sold at the preview of Watertown, the first integrated waterfront residential and retail development in Singapore.
Almost 90 percent of the buyers were Singaporeans, with the SOHO Apartments and Suites receiving the most interest.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2012/1/32138/over-160-units-at-watertown-snapped-up-in-preview
Wow, S'poreans are lemmings. All jump into the unknown waters together. Kudos to FEO. They have managed the market perfectly to their advantage. KBW must be gulping down his medication to prevent further heart attack. CM6 may be round the corner indeed. PAP have not done anything to increase their votes for next election so far. If anything, I suspect their votes may have gone down. :doh: The housing and transport issues are not getting any better. In fact, seem to have gotten worse. The old guard must be glad that they are having a happy retirement with their nice pensions whereas the new kids have to slog through crisis after crisis to clean up after them and with their salary and pension slashed somemore.
Haa haa, I was a victim of WFI, bought on CNY. Yes, they gave deep discount with final price to be slightly less than WFG launched 6 months earlier.
Now the psf of watertown with all discounts end up to be only slightly higher than ATT, considering the finishes and location, it seems to be a great deal. Some ATT owners are :banghead:
but ATT owners got their ghost house hor :D
Watertown owners only got giant mall nia.
don think there will be cm6 anytime now. if govt continue with cm6, is admitting that they are so incapable, despite coming ut with so many cms
I am really surprised to see the response given cm5 imposed recently.
1080psf for a far end location. Is palette at 850-950psf a better buy?
don think there will be cm6 anytime now. if govt continue with cm6, is admitting that they are so incapable, despite coming ut with so many cms
i do not agree. it is not about capability of the government
we need to see prices rising too quickly for next few Q in order to have a cm6:2cents:
but ATT owners got their ghost house hor :D
Watertown owners only got giant mall nia.
I don't see such a big deal with giant mall. Compass Point has a development on a mall with MRT and for a long time, the price doesn't shoot up that well. Somemore living on top of mall with MRT it is rather congested esp at weekends. You would be sianz to have cars crowding around your place, no peaceful weekend ambience for you.
I see the crowd around Nex at the weekends.....can faint....I oso dun feel like going near that place at weekends. If I lived on top of Nex I would be :doh:
Then almost everyone will end up hating the govt. I think a lot of S'poreans' "wealth" is locked up in pty, including HDB. A lot of them are also dependent on the pty market for their livelihood. If this avenue of asset enhancement and income generation is reduced significantly or taken away, there will be even more resentment on the ground. The Opposition are sitting pretty here. They don't even have to do anything. The more CMs, the less happy will be the S'poreans. I wonder how many S'poreans are really rejoicing at the CMs and praising the govt? I think most are groaning every time there is a new CM.
Allow me to offer a contrary view for the purpose of healthy discussions. For people with single property and owner occupier (the majority of the population) they can only feel good when their only asset value goes up. Should prices go down, they are not affected in anyway either.
For those who own multiple properties for investment purposes, they are not much affected by price movement if their sole purpose is to collect rents. For a smaller group of people with multiple properties will welcome high property prices because they could either average down their costs or sell some to buy more.
There are many first-timers who are not happy with high prices. Majority of the single asset owners who aspire to own more than one properties (majority of the population as discussed) will also not be happy with high prices.
Taking this view, the majority of the population should not be happy with high property price. The government has also come to realise that their asset enhancement scheme is no longer making people happy because prices have risen to such high level and not inline with income or per capital income. The government also realise that the average couples are taking 25 to 30 to finance their homes. People are highly stress with high gearing and less opportunity to property investment except for the minority "rich". Politically, anywhere in the world, high property prices will cause social divide and to some extend, social unrest like in China.
I am taking the view that the majority of the population (above 50%) are not happy with high property prices which I believe is consistent with the government's thinking and thus expect more CMs if the minority is causing market unbalance..
Can't agree more... there are 2 big issues here.
1. Appreciating asset values is absolutely meaningless if its just paper value. This form of asset enhancement only makes sense for multiple properties owners. Sell high only to buy even higher is not logical and so yes, it'll definitely not win the votes of these group of citizens.
2. Like you rightly pointed out, these CMs are simply making more people unhappy and clearly, CMs directed at the majority of buyers will certainly incur more wrath :simmering:. There is a fundamental problem here. Foresight is the key. If govt have foreseen this sticky business, more should have been done before any need for CM to cool the market. Someone pointed out that 10 years ago, HDB had huge oversupply, resulting in WIS. Then a sudden undersupply that spiked housing prices to sky high figures and now trying to oversupply again. What is this? A game of see-saw or an apparent lack of foresight by the relevant authorities? :doh:
al la mat how can u say this?:p the garmen says they are paying top salary to get top talents for all these years.. and ironically only top talents can solve top problems created by other top talents previously..so ending up paying more and more top talents to solve the shit that who created in the first place? ....:p
CM6 coming...
possible....so many areas to play with(capital tax, valuation etc), if CM5 cannot work, garmen no face to hide...and now with internet..people can just shoot on line and make a big hoo haa...:p
I think you are dead wrong!
The fact is: Majority (except the small minority, <10 like you) are happy with govt's "Asset Enhancement Scheme". That is the only way for >80% of the Citizens to retire comfortably when they reach 60 years old! These people when they start work, buy a property big enough for whole family, when they retire can downgrade and cash out of the bigger property and can then retire!
Only those who despice and didn't heed govt's call on "Asset Enhancement Scheme", and who try to short property for personal gain are crying father-and-mother!
Without property price rising, there is no way for almost 80% of CITIZENS to retire comfortably at 60 years old!
Allow me to offer a contrary view for the purpose of healthy discussions. For people with single property and owner occupier (the majority of the population) they can only feel good when their only asset value goes up. Should prices go down, they are not affected in anyway either.
For those who own multiple properties for investment purposes, they are not much affected by price movement if their sole purpose is to collect rents. For a smaller group of people with multiple properties will welcome high property prices because they could either average down their costs or sell some to buy more.
There are many first-timers who are not happy with high prices. Majority of the single asset owners who aspire to own more than one properties (majority of the population as discussed) will also not be happy with high prices.
Taking this view, the majority of the population should not be happy with high property price. The government has also come to realise that their asset enhancement scheme is no longer making people happy because prices have risen to such high level and not inline with income or per capital income. The government also realise that the average couples are taking 25 to 30 to finance their homes. People are highly stress with high gearing and less opportunity to property investment except for the minority "rich". Politically, anywhere in the world, high property prices will cause social divide and to some extend, social unrest like in China.
I am taking the view that the majority of the population (above 50%) are not happy with high property prices which I believe is consistent with the government's thinking and thus expect more CMs if the minority is causing market unbalance..
A healthy economy is one where property prices rises with rising income or per capital income. The asset enhancement scheme started by this government is relevant as long as prices rise with the support of economic fundamentals. People will continue to benefit from a rising property market in the long term. Property prices cannot be allowed to rise way beyond economic fundamentals and this is where the current problem is. The majority of the population will not benefit from such unsupported price rise. The government cannot be wrong trying to tame the property market if the market is healthy.
And with the property prices keep going up, there is no way for the children to pay their installment.
The median income for HDB 3 Rm appliants are S$2500.
Imagine a family of 4, how much you can sqeenze to pay for installament?
How many years you need to pay.
If you can squeez S$500 per month, to pay for 35 years, with 1% interest rate. You can only afford S$177K.
If the interest rate is 2.5%, you can only afford S$139K.
And how much is a new HDB 3-RM cost now?
Thanks,
Richard
The big enemy for us all is INFLATION. Some of us are not only buying to speculate or to make massive capital gains but as a hedge for inflation. In current climate it is very very difficult to find a financial instrument that is relatively "safe" for this purpose and also allows us to have some leverage to make some investment gains. That is why many have turned to property. If govt takes this away, there are lesser choices of where to park the $$$.
I take the point that govt trying to rein in the rising prices of property is to try and reduce the rich-poor divide. But I am not sure that it can work. The rich still have other and more creative ways to make their $$$. The poor and even the middle income families will have a hard time to catch up even if property prices are stagnant or decline. Some of the middle class were perhaps hoping for some capital gains from property in order to help them upgrade.
The big enemy for us all is INFLATION. Some of us are not only buying to speculate or to make massive capital gains but as a hedge for inflation. In current climate it is very very difficult to find a financial instrument that is relatively "safe" for this purpose and also allows us to have some leverage to make some investment gains. That is why many have turned to property. If govt takes this away, there are lesser choices of where to park the $$$.
I take the point that govt trying to rein in the rising prices of property is to try and reduce the rich-poor divide. But I am not sure that it can work. The rich still have other and more creative ways to make their $$$. The poor and even the middle income families will have a hard time to catch up even if property prices are stagnant or decline. Some of the middle class were perhaps hoping for some capital gains from property in order to help them upgrade.
You hit the nail and it is true that only the minority has the means to park their funds in properties to hedge against inflation. This is where the problem lies and the government is trying to address that. Not doing anything is not an option and thus the various CMs. If the minority continues to "ignore" the CMs, more will come. The government cannot afford for the economy to cripple due to market disorder.
It will be a disaster to cripple the economy. Their chances of success at next election :banghead:
The rich will bring their $$$ elsewhere thus double whammy for S'pore economy. The rich-poor divide will not be lessened. In fact may become even more marked as those "sandwich" class upper middle income wishing to dabble in property to rise up into the upper echelons are also the ones severely hit by the CMs dashing their hopes. Previously could have a share of the action by 20% down-payment. Now it's 40%.
Is it my imagination or is Mr Chen looking more and more like the cat that got the cream (mao)? This chaos in housing and transport is playing right into his hands (paws).
It will be a disaster to cripple the economy. Their chances of success at next election :banghead:
The rich will bring their $$$ elsewhere thus double whammy for S'pore economy. The rich-poor divide will not be lessened. In fact may become even more marked as those "sandwich" class upper middle income wishing to dabble in property to rise up into the upper echelons are also the ones severely hit by the CMs dashing their hopes. Previously could have a share of the action by 20% down-payment. Now it's 40%.
the message sent is only rich can play..those salary with bonus 1 million above ha ha :p
the message sent is only rich can play..those salary with bonus 1 million above ha ha :p
:D
I don't think it will appease the "poor" or the those who missed the boat. They will still be unhappy. And more dissenters will join from the middle and upper middle class (those who previously sought to have a share in the property market rainbow.....only there doesn't look like there's much gold at the end of the rainbow anymore......?????
I am really surprised to see the response given cm5 imposed recently.
1080psf for a far end location. Is palette at 850-950psf a better buy?
All these buying if driven by citizens probably is the combined effect of ones dream to stay in PC and the good rental yield achieviable Of their HDB.
Likely this is the new Singapore dream rather than the older dream of able to upgrade only.
If citizens are buying their 2nd ppty, CM so far have no impact on this group.
Wait for stats to see who r the buyers hee.
Allthepies
20-01-12, 13:23
A healthy economy is one where property prices rises with rising income or per capital income. The asset enhancement scheme started by this government is relevant as long as prices rise with the support of economic fundamentals. People will continue to benefit from a rising property market in the long term. Property prices cannot be allowed to rise way beyond economic fundamentals and this is where the current problem is. The majority of the population will not benefit from such unsupported price rise. The government cannot be wrong trying to tame the property market if the market is healthy.
aiya i find it strange tat people keep forgetting making hdb afordable should be the goal of government. private properties are luxury goods, not meant for those who cant afford. keep new hdb affordable for young couple with healthy appreciation for older citizens to unlock value. stay out of private properties, not meant for 80% of the population.
It all starts from the price of HDB raw land. Too low is "raiding reserves" and too high level = upgraders/affulent young rather make the jump into PC. Difficult to find the right level ...
HDB prices, as you say being 80% of the market, has to fall first.
aiya i find it strange tat people keep forgetting making hdb afordable should be the goal of government. private properties are luxury goods, not meant for those who cant afford. keep new hdb affordable for young couple with healthy appreciation for older citizens to unlock value. stay out of private properties, not meant for 80% of the population.
I think you are dead wrong!
The fact is: Majority (except the small minority, <10 like you) are happy with govt's "Asset Enhancement Scheme". That is the only way for >80% of the Citizens to retire comfortably when they reach 60 years old! These people when they start work, buy a property big enough for whole family, when they retire can downgrade and cash out of the bigger property and can then retire!
Only those who despice and didn't heed govt's call on "Asset Enhancement Scheme", and who try to short property for personal gain are crying father-and-mother!
Without property price rising, there is no way for almost 80% of CITIZENS to retire comfortably at 60 years old!I do not disagree with you here but there are several assumptions made here.
1. These families have children who can afford to move out and so not staying with them anymore when they grow up so these folks can downgrade.
2. The downgrade must be significant in order to retire comfortably at 60 yrs old. A 5 room downgrading to a 3 room would generate about 150k (after subtracting misc cost plus reno cost). This is decent money. But if they start with only a 3 room HDB flat, then they probably cannot generate sufficient cash for retirement so they just carry on staying in that old flat which by then, govt may want to tear down and ask them to move to a new place by topping up cash. They will have to delay their retirement plans then... :scared-3:
3. When govt is clapping down on property price shooting over the roof so asset enhancement applies for those who bought years back when one's salary is still able to finanace the mortgage loan over a tenure of about 20 years. Today, I hear housing loan tenure stretching to 40 years or even to 80 years old, way past the retirement age or is that the projected retirement age in years to come? How much appreciation can one now expect of their assets? Enough to rise for a comfortable retirement 30 years later?
It all starts from the price of HDB raw land. Too low is "raiding reserves" and too high level = upgraders/affulent young rather make the jump into PC. Difficult to find the right level ...
HDB prices, as you say being 80% of the market, has to fall first.
Yes, HDB has to fall first and interest rates have to rise in order to totally kill off genuine demand. Lets pray our incomes keep on rising.
I am really surprised to see the response given cm5 imposed recently.
1080psf for a far end location. Is palette at 850-950psf a better buy?
Buy palette!!! Hehe cos I bought one there in dec lol
There's no reason to introduce cm6 at this moment la. Cm5 was to allow citizens to be happy, so now everyone happy buy buy buy. Govt (and mr B and supporters) just waiting for property market to crash then they will remove cm5...anyway as long as citizens are happily buying, govt will let it be...until crash, everyone cry father cry mother, govt will step in to "help" again, reintroduce LTV 10% maybe haha
propertychap
20-01-12, 14:11
Lucky you buy in dec before CM?
There's no reason to introduce cm6 at this moment la. Cm5 was to allow citizens to be happy, so now everyone happy buy buy buy. Govt (and mr B and supporters) just waiting for property market to crash then they will remove cm5...anyway as long as citizens are happily buying, govt will let it be...until crash, everyone cry father cry mother, govt will step in to "help" again, reintroduce LTV 10% maybe hahaNot everyone happy leh... especially locals with 2 or more properties already hoping to scoop up another valued buy! :o
aiya i find it strange tat people keep forgetting making hdb afordable should be the goal of government. private properties are luxury goods, not meant for those who cant afford. keep new hdb affordable for young couple with healthy appreciation for older citizens to unlock value. stay out of private properties, not meant for 80% of the population.
As discussed in another thread before, there is in reality no such a thing as a separate HDB market and private property market. People move from one market to another to satisfy their needs and wants in economic terms. The HDB market affects the mass market PC and the mass market PC affect the mid end and so on and on..........This is the what we call Adam Smith's Invisible Hand in action in economic theory.
Lucky you buy in dec before CM?
Ya man I signed my otp on 8dec!!!
Not everyone happy leh... especially locals with 2 or more properties already hoping to scoop up another valued buy! :o
Actually developers are willing to "absorb" leh...my friend own multiple properties she also just bought hillier cos she thinks is dirt cheap and FEO absorbed ABSD for her
As discussed in another thread before, there is in reality no such a thing as a separate HDB market and private property market. People move from one market to another to satisfy their needs and wants in economic terms. The HDB market affects the mass market PC and the mass market PC affect the mid end and so on and on..........This is the what we call Adam Smith's Invisible Hand in action in economic theory.Real question is which market is affecting which? PC dragging HDB along or vice versa? Try having BTOs 5 room flats going for $150k and see if PC prices will fall! :D Unfortunately, it is most often the other way round coz govt will never sell BTO at prices lower than market value! :scared-3:
propertychap
20-01-12, 14:31
so why do people return units after 8 dec?
so why do people return units after 8 dec?
Small percentage return units because either 1) bank loan not approved 2) overleveraged, too risky for them 3) bearish and want to wait for better deal.
propertychap
20-01-12, 14:36
But already lose money when you forfeit.
Real question is which market is affecting which? PC dragging HDB along or vice versa? Try having BTOs 5 room flats going for $150k and see if PC prices will fall! :D Unfortunately, it is most often the other way round coz govt will never sell BTO at prices lower than market value! :scared-3:
Base on economic theory, HDB market should affect mass market PC due to the satisfaction of needs and wants. However, given the imperfect market as it is now where the market is full of excess liquidity, the market may behave atnormally.
But already lose money when you forfeit.
Yup they are probably novice investors who do not have clarity of their investment strategies. Cos during that time a lot of property commentators (read: analysts) predict prices will correct 20-30%. So these investors want to cut loss early cos they are short term players. Out they go!
It's all about confidence la. The govt+media working together very closely to cool prices...all done with purpose. I'm glad they do that do at least the climb is not too fast otherwise I also heart attack.
Actually developers are willing to "absorb" leh...my friend own multiple properties she also just bought hillier cos she thinks is dirt cheap and FEO absorbed ABSD for herGood thing that you used the word "absorb". They can also "absorb" 10% ABSD from foreigners if they lower their profit margin! :)
Yup they are probably novice investors who do not have clarity of their investment strategies. Cos during that time a lot of property commentators (read: analysts) predict prices will correct 20-30%. So these investors want to cut loss early cos they are short term players. Out they go!
It's all about confidence la. The govt+media working together very closely to cool prices...all done with purpose. I'm glad they do that do at least the climb is not too fast otherwise I also heart attack.
I agree. When the current launched projects TOP, the economic situation will be different from what it is today or even in the next one or two years. In any case, it makes no sense to hold pty for less than 4 years due too SSD. So anyone wanting to go in now should be prepared to hold it for at least that period. The days of a quick flip and good profits are over.
Some of those investors who backed out after the CM are looking to pick up the pty at a cheaper price when and if the market drops.
Those waiting still please note that the banks are getting increasingly cautious in their lending. What you could have borrowed from them last year may not be possible this year due to tightening of their criteria. The good old days of easy loans are also over.
Any further updates on Watertown ?
It will be really helpful if we have some on the ground information.
How many units sold already ?
Did they lower the discounts ?
DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool
1. Isn't that what is happening in Singapore? Look at the top 20% earners, they are earning so much more than 10 years ago (even if you take the median and ignore the average)! These are the people who can afford private properties. Is it any wonder that even OCR private properties now >$1200 psf? that is it! Because of the increasing purchasing power by the people whose earning is in the 10-20% quartile!
2. Only issue is when HDB flats' prices run out of control, the properties that cater to the other 80% earners! And that is where it is strange: Why Cooling Measures didn't target that run-away HDB prices which out-run the rise in income of the 80% earners and instead were slapped onto the private properties where the rise of income of top 20% earners has out-run that of private property prices? :doh:
A healthy economy is one where property prices rises with rising income or per capital income. The asset enhancement scheme started by this government is relevant as long as prices rise with the support of economic fundamentals. People will continue to benefit from a rising property market in the long term. Property prices cannot be allowed to rise way beyond economic fundamentals and this is where the current problem is. The majority of the population will not benefit from such unsupported price rise. The government cannot be wrong trying to tame the property market if the market is healthy.
Private property is a "want", not a "need".
Since it is not a "need", it is not the job nor responsibility of any govt to make it affordable for the Tom, Dick and Harry. If govt wants to do that, they might as well also makes the following easily affordable or even subsidize them:
1) Give everybody a Rolls-Royce or at least Mercedes S500
2) Give everybody a landed GCBs or penthouses
3) Give everybody $120k every year for Holidays (remember that Civil Servant spent $120k on cooking class? :o)
... More what you "want" name it here! :banghead:
As discussed in another thread before, there is in reality no such a thing as a separate HDB market and private property market. People move from one market to another to satisfy their needs and wants in economic terms. The HDB market affects the mass market PC and the mass market PC affect the mid end and so on and on..........This is the what we call Adam Smith's Invisible Hand in action in economic theory.
Private property is a "want", not a "need".
Since it is not a "need", it is not the job nor responsibility of any govt to make it affordable for the Tom, Dick and Harry. If govt wants to do that, they might as well also makes the following easily affordable or even subsidize them:
1) Give everybody a Rolls-Royce or at least Mercedes S500
2) Give everybody a landed GCBs or penthouses
3) Give everybody $120k every year for Holidays (remember that Civil Servant spent $120k on cooking class? :o)
... More what you "want" name it here! :banghead:
Needs and wants are simply economic terms. Sorry to have confused some people in this forum who are not use to economic theory..
Just saw the tv ad... Can see marina bay fireworks meh????
Jonathan0503
20-01-12, 21:53
Just saw the tv ad... Can see marina bay fireworks meh????
Tv add on what huh?
We don't have to care about it is "what" theory, just need to know they are just like "heaven" and "earth", 1 is necessary and 1 is un-necessary (people want it just for to enjoy life, while some want them for vanity/face/whatever ego reasons even when they can ill-afford and then start to CPCB :o)
Needs and wants are simply economic terms. Sorry to have confused some people in this forum who are not use to economic theory..
Just saw the tv ad... Can see marina bay fireworks meh????
No. Impossible unless see on T.V.
I think for property price to drop across all sectors, the government must put pressure on the majority. Putting measures on private property is not going to work because it only affects 20% of the people here. The government should (1) increase the property tax for all HDBs and calculate that by size of flats pegged against private property, (2) increase the stamp duty for purchase of any property for 2nd-time and above to 5%, without imposing that on first-timers, (3) remove 'COV' altogether.
if u c how things r shaping
public: private will nt b 80:20 down d rd
moving to 20:80..so some ulu ppl still think we r in 70s. can c d changing definition...matter of time EC privatised with swimming pool, facilities....
shape d public houses to shape of private condo..then how do u c it.
if u c how things r shaping
public: private will nt b 80:20 down d rd
moving to 20:80..so some ulu ppl still think we r in 70s. can c d changing definition...matter of time EC privatised with swimming pool, facilities....
shape d public houses to shape of private condo..then how do u c it.
That's why i think the government needs to come in now and tax all HDB owners as hard as they tax the condo owners. These days HDBs can be 800-900k for a 4/5 room flat which is ridiculously expensive for public housing. The cooling measures so far have only been targeted at private housing. It is time they go after the public housing too. Slap all HDB owners with an equivalent property tax. Make put in the additional 10% stamp duty for anyone who tries to buy a second apartment (regardless of what it is). Change the minimum occupancy period for HDB to 10 years instead of 5. Let's see what happens.
That's why i think the government needs to come in now and tax all HDB owners as hard as they tax the condo owners. These days HDBs can be 800-900k for a 4/5 room flat which is ridiculously expensive for public housing. The cooling measures so far have only been targeted at private housing. It is time they go after the public housing too. Slap all HDB owners with an equivalent property tax. Make put in the additional 10% stamp duty for anyone who tries to buy a second apartment (regardless of what it is). Change the minimum occupancy period for HDB to 10 years instead of 5. Let's see what happens.If govt wants to target CM at this 80% of Singaporeans, they would have done so earlier. They have been holding back, arguing that property market prices can be stabalized through control of the < 10% of local investors as observed from CM4 and CM5 but they are just dreaming... :sleep: Sigh! Let's just watch how the authorities react to the continued heating of the property market...
Last year, property developers sold an average of 1,300 homes per month. The recently-released December new private home sales figure of 632 is slightly less than half that number. Can we predict that overall home sales will be halved this year? This will be a huge concern for developers – their unsold stock will simply balloon. Or is last month the worst it can get and that conditions can only improve from here?
You could read last month’s figure in two ways. The straightforward reading by most media is that new private homes sales, excluding executive condominiums, plunged 63 per cent from November. But housing agents I spoke to said they had expected a heavier fall after the imposition of the additional buyers’ stamp duty (ABSD).
You can understand where they are coming from. After all, almost every property expert in the market had predicted that a price correction was on the cards or simply inevitable. Even a few developers admitted that the price situation was unsalvageable.
Yet, the fact that 632 purchasers chose to buy in the month when they could have ostensibly got them cheaper a few months later must be puzzling. These buyers seemed to act against good advice, or for that matter, the only advice offered publicly.
At a recent seminar, I told the audience that they had to analyse the market at both micro and macro levels. If you choose to analyse market behaviour purely from the ground level, you will always be puzzled. At the macro level, you would realise that there are few investment alternatives.
Some analysts have said that a price correction would be healthy for the market. I agree. I have never said that the current market is healthy but I cannot say that prices will fall as a result of the ABSD if I cannot see it happening. It can happen if there is a deep recession or if borrowing costs rise sharply and suddenly, but not purely as a result of the ABSD.
At the same time, it is also difficult to see prices rising in the near future as the authorities are continuing to make land available for private housing.
Still, last month’s figure is the lowest in two years and reflects a huge dent on buying sentiment. The announcement of the ABSD on Dec 7 left enough room for those who want to pull out to do so. This would mean the figures would be the first month to accurately reflect the full impact of the ABSD.
I had expected weak sales at similar levels to continue for the next two months but after what happened on Wednesday at the launch of Watertown in Punggol Central, I am not so sure any more. If the sales figures are to be believed, more than 160 of the 250 units launched were snapped up. Had prices been lowered as the developer had indicated the day before? But as the news report pointed out, the project set a new price benchmark for Punggol.
As I often remind my colleagues, the money is out there, waiting to be spent. You need to build a good story line for the buyer to take out his cheque book. News reports also said that more than 90 per cent of the buyers were Singaporeans. Have we seriously under-estimated the pool of first-time buyers? Or were the serial investors out in force?
We should never dismiss the serial investors. They are a resourceful lot. Nothing energises them more than the prospect of making tons of money. Have they drawn up a list of family members, relatives and even friends whose names they can borrow?
I have spoken to some of them – many are outspoken and cocky. They thumbed their noses at the new rules and loudly proclaimed that they will not be beaten. Let me give them some advice – if the robust buying does not weaken, what do you think will happen next?
Yes, more cooling measures.
By Colin Tan – head of research and consultancy at Chesterton Suntec International. (20 Jan 2012)
KBW are u reading the above highlighted in RED some ones out there are laughing at you...:p
And with the property prices keep going up, there is no way for the children to pay their installment.
The median income for HDB 3 Rm appliants are S$2500.
Imagine a family of 4, how much you can sqeenze to pay for installament?
How many years you need to pay.
If you can squeez S$500 per month, to pay for 35 years, with 1% interest rate. You can only afford S$177K.
If the interest rate is 2.5%, you can only afford S$139K.
And how much is a new HDB 3-RM cost now?
Thanks,
Richard
u are assuming single incom. dual income will double tat. 260K which is close to today price from goverment. fact is earning is higher now.
a dip or grad $500 cpf $500 cash u X 2 person its doable.
u are assuming single incom. dual income will double tat. 260K which is close to today price from goverment. fact is earning is higher now.
a dip or grad $500 cpf $500 cash u X 2 person its doable.
And hope and pray no one gets retrenched.
aiya i find it strange tat people keep forgetting making hdb afordable should be the goal of government. private properties are luxury goods, not meant for those who cant afford. keep new hdb affordable for young couple with healthy appreciation for older citizens to unlock value. stay out of private properties, not meant for 80% of the population.
so are u saying to make it afforadable means drop the price? sell a 3bed room at $100K?
sure many pple can own. and all will run to buy and resulting in the secondary market crashing.. so would anyone here with aunty or unlce owning a 3bed room having know their home price crashed? will they be happy? maybe some was plannign to sell the 3bed room and use some of the $ to retire?
That's why i think the government needs to come in now and tax all HDB owners as hard as they tax the condo owners. These days HDBs can be 800-900k for a 4/5 room flat which is ridiculously expensive for public housing. The cooling measures so far have only been targeted at private housing. It is time they go after the public housing too. Slap all HDB owners with an equivalent property tax. Make put in the additional 10% stamp duty for anyone who tries to buy a second apartment (regardless of what it is). Change the minimum occupancy period for HDB to 10 years instead of 5. Let's see what happens.
HDB got 900K from government ? what u mean is resale thats different.
U also fail to mention that there is $250K HDB from government too?
There are choices it up to pple to choose something tat fit their budget. u can force everyone to east the same $2 chicken rice dish. there are some that want to eat the $16 mandrine hotel chicken.
But if someone only have $2 also want to try the MAndrien hotel chicken. No one can stop them its a free country..
unless we all join north korea become ultra communist! but then communist also no guarantee everyone is equal. some are more equal then others.
And hope and pray no one gets retrenched.
then find another job. ask parents to move in and rent out parents hse.. wait.. forgot many pple want property to crash.. so parents hse also loose value thus rent not much...
:)
Allthepies
21-01-12, 22:06
so are u saying to make it afforadable means drop the price? sell a 3bed room at $100K?
sure many pple can own. and all will run to buy and resulting in the secondary market crashing.. so would anyone here with aunty or unlce owning a 3bed room having know their home price crashed? will they be happy? maybe some was plannign to sell the 3bed room and use some of the $ to retire?
The key word is affordable, I never say make it cheap... Also need hdb to have healthy appreciation for older generation to cash out...
In my opinion the current pricing level with the subsidies is still affordable for a wide range of owners. The young generation must choose the size and location within their means and not buy something they desire but unaffordable to them...
The key word is affordable, I never say make it cheap... Also need hdb to have healthy appreciation for older generation to cash out...
In my opinion the current pricing level with the subsidies is still affordable for a wide range of owners. The young generation must choose the size and location within their means and not buy something they desire but unaffordable to them...
yes the key word is affordable, and not beyond your means. now for the young there are choices from government.
Then how? Isn't what they are doing with all the CMs trying to drop the price of private properties (even if they say is just to stabilize but with latest CM5 most likely will drop!).
Since they have made the mistake of allow HDB flats prices to go out of control then how? Allow HDB flats to continue to rise to $1m? If resale HDB flats can sell at >$800k now, how to expect private properties to sell <$800k even in ulu location regardless of how many CMs since all the CMs apparently only target private properties? :doh:
so are u saying to make it afforadable means drop the price? sell a 3bed room at $100K?
sure many pple can own. and all will run to buy and resulting in the secondary market crashing.. so would anyone here with aunty or unlce owning a 3bed room having know their home price crashed? will they be happy? maybe some was plannign to sell the 3bed room and use some of the $ to retire?
the idea is to narrow the gap between hdb and pc so that people still have the incentive to work hard towards that PC. if PC flies beyond reach, we may have a motivational issue.
So how many %age of the people they are trying to satisfy by narrowing the gap of HDB and PC? Thought HDB objective is to ensure cheap HDB flat price for lower-income citizens? Since when it becomes govt responsibility to ensure cheap PC? How about soon a cheap landed, better still GCB, otherwise Singapore citizens lack motivation to work hard? :scared-3:
Extrapolate further, it becomes the responsibility of the govt to narrow the gap between the price of Mercedes S500 and a Kia so that almost every citizen can afford a Mercedes S500 otherwise no motivation for Singapore Citizens to work hard? :banghead:
the idea is to narrow the gap between hdb and pc so that people still have the incentive to work hard towards that PC. if PC flies beyond reach, we may have a motivational issue.
So how many %age of the people they are trying to satisfy by narrowing the gap of HDB and PC? Thought HDB objective is to ensure cheap HDB flat price for lower-income citizens? Since when it becomes govt responsibility to ensure cheap PC? How about soon a cheap landed, better still GCB, otherwise Singapore citizens lack motivation to work hard? :scared-3:
Extrapolate further, it becomes the responsibility of the govt to narrow the gap between the price of Mercedes S500 and a Kia so that almost every citizen can afford a Mercedes S500 otherwise no motivation for Singapore Citizens to work hard? :banghead:
The Hard Truth is : this is NOT a free market, the market is controlled with a bias towards the rich! We all know the Hard Truths, but some refuse to see it. What happens when prices start to correct sharply ? We stop land sales, remove the AB-whatever, and in some instance, even give discount to the standard stamp duty - remember the days where u pay only 50% or 70% of the 3%-$5,400 ?
When land price too low, what we do ? We dont sell to developers.
If u link up all these, you will know that the market is managed with a price floor in mind and that price floor is no more than 15% below the current prices.
Just my humble opinion,
DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool
And by the way, can we have some updates on Watertown ?
This project maybe the one that turned round the Dec 6xx units sold!
In Jan 12, Hiller sold more than 300 units, Watertown sold more than 300 units ? So just for one developer alone, we get 600-700 units already !
DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool
I must say FEO is very good at marketing these days. They are able to package their products to be unique and appealing in face of so much competition.
iwantgizmos
21-01-12, 23:23
I must say FEO is very good at marketing these days. They are able to package their products to be unique and appealing in face of so much competition.
Totally agree....
So how many %age of the people they are trying to satisfy by narrowing the gap of HDB and PC? Thought HDB objective is to ensure cheap HDB flat price for lower-income citizens? Since when it becomes govt responsibility to ensure cheap PC? How about soon a cheap landed, better still GCB, otherwise Singapore citizens lack motivation to work hard? :scared-3:
Extrapolate further, it becomes the responsibility of the govt to narrow the gap between the price of Mercedes S500 and a Kia so that almost every citizen can afford a Mercedes S500 otherwise no motivation for Singapore Citizens to work hard? :banghead:
well there are 80% of the population living in a HDB. I won't say that's their objective but looking at how the measures have affected the PCs more like some of the members pointed out here, so that's my guess. and as for cheap, i don't think it needs to be cheap, it just needs a narrower gap for the upgraders to cross over. so my guess is if a 5 room flat is going to end up around 700-800k, and if PC 3 bedder is around the 1-1.2m mark, at least the upgraders have a chance. but if the 3 bedder in suburbia reaches $1.5-$1.7m in a heartbeat. hmmm...
I must say FEO is very good at marketing these days. They are able to package their products to be unique and appealing in face of so much competition.
their 20% discount tactic worked. lol.
I must say FEO is very good at marketing these days. They are able to package their products to be unique and appealing in face of so much competition.
To me F$O is all smoke n mirrors...
well there are 80% of the population living in a HDB. I won't say that's their objective but looking at how the measures have affected the PCs more like some of the members pointed out here, so that's my guess. and as for cheap, i don't think it needs to be cheap, it just needs a narrower gap for the upgraders to cross over. so my guess is if a 5 room flat is going to end up around 700-800k, and if PC 3 bedder is around the 1-1.2m mark, at least the upgraders have a chance. but if the 3 bedder in suburbia reaches $1.5-$1.7m in a heartbeat. hmmm...
So can we say the new flats coming online will meet the 80% needs? since most already have HDB only the younger generation need housing? $250-350K is affordable by today standards.
"the market is managed with a price floor in mind and that price floor is no more than 15% below the current prices."
Fantastic analysis!
How about rental market, it seems the private rental market will be the first one to go down. Government has lost one of the tools for pushing up the rental market (ie importing people). What other measures to push up the rental market?
Cut the supply of renting out the HDB?
Thanks,
Richard
So can we say the new flats coming online will meet the 80% needs? since most already have HDB only the younger generation need housing? $250-350K is affordable by today standards.
The announcement of increasing chances for 2nd time applicants means that the most pressing needs are already being met towards the end of last year. I think this year HDB is supplying to 2nd time applicants. Year 2013 should be building to create buffer stock and rental. When the latter batch TOPs in 2017, then we might see stricter conditions for renting out HDB.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1173390/1/.html
I must say FEO is very good at marketing these days. They are able to package their products to be unique and appealing in face of so much competition.
I beg to differ. They have become like some of the MM developers who just copy and paste their formulas. FEO launches now everything is SOHO.
phantom_opera
22-01-12, 21:59
I beg to differ. They have become like some of the MM developers who just copy and paste their formulas. FEO launches now everything is SOHO.
Good point :tongue3:
When all developers only launching 70% 5xx sqft units ... you know market is about to peak
500sqft 1br X 70%
700 sqft 2br X 20%
800 sqft 2+1 X 5%
850sqft 3br X 5%
fantastic mix
Good point :tongue3:
When all developers only launching 70% 5xx sqft units ... you know market is about to peak
500sqft 1br X 70%
700 sqft 2br X 20%
800 sqft 2+1 X 5%
850sqft 3br X 5%
fantastic mix
Got a point when they know big units too expensive to sell at awkward location.
Got a point when they know big units too expensive to sell at awkward location.
so scarryyyyy
so scarryyyyy
Hey hey it is still affordable
phantom_opera
22-01-12, 22:37
the development is so jam-packed, it looks like EuHabitat except EuH is low rise this is high rise :doh: Suites is so horrible exposed to mid-year West Sun that reminds me of 1br @ Estuary, in fact the entire row of Suites should have been a swimming pool
http://watertownlaunch.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/20111225-085646.jpg?w=715&h=522
So can we say the new flats coming online will meet the 80% needs? since most already have HDB only the younger generation need housing? $250-350K is affordable by today standards.
i can't say whether it's sufficient, but they look like they're busting their butts to meet the demands of the next generation of couples from that 80%.
Good point :tongue3:
When all developers only launching 70% 5xx sqft units ... you know market is about to peak
500sqft 1br X 70%
700 sqft 2br X 20%
800 sqft 2+1 X 5%
850sqft 3br X 5%
fantastic mix
...wah based on what kind of analysis...past trend?
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