fiRST AGM

[marktkt22]

What to expect for first agm ? what do we need to do?
Current MA is appointed by the developer
and the 1st year defect liability over by nxt mth...
Appreciate some inputs from the bro and sis in this forum ....thanks in advance

[bullman]

What to expect for first agm ? what do we need to do?
Current MA is appointed by the developer
and the 1st year defect liability over by nxt mth...
Appreciate some inputs from the bro and sis in this forum ....thanks in advance

You may want to volunteer to be involved in the committee. Ask for an extension period for defect so that every unit can get a chance to rectify any problems.

I think the developer is doing a less than satisfactory job rectifying the defects and there are too many illegal cars parking in the estate.

Heard that the main gate sensor is not working again?

[marktkt22]

Bullman,

Yap, will volunteer for the committee
I had tabled a long long list of issues and defect to the MA.
But they kinda slow to response and solved....

The Main auto gate spoilt ....Damn, i got locked out.
Already tell MA, they fix that yesterday evening

[marktkt22]

Btw, the defenses referred to estate defects. building defects
Individual unit , they should tabled and send to developer asap, i think.

[peterng8]

What to expect for first agm ? what do we need to do?
Current MA is appointed by the developer
and the 1st year defect liability over by nxt mth...
Appreciate some inputs from the bro and sis in this forum ....thanks in advance


go and eat the buffet spread la .....:o

[buttercarp]

go and eat the buffet spread la .....:o

Got buffet, meh?
My place only got new water.

Usually there are some people who go round with proxy forms collecting signatures of residents who usually blindly sign it without fully understanding the motion.
So if you feel strongly about a certain issue, you should maybe go round with proxy forms to collect signatures.

[peterng8]

Got buffet, meh?
My place only got new water.

Usually there are some people who go round with proxy forms collecting signatures of residents who usually blindly sign it without fully understanding the motion.
So if you feel strongly about a certain issue, you should maybe go round with proxy forms to collect signatures.


poor thing...nothing to eat still have to raise issue....ours we keep our mouth shut let the whole thing ends fast and we whack the buffet with full family and go home...:o

[buttercarp]

poor thing...nothing to eat still have to raise issue....ours we keep our mouth shut let the whole thing ends fast and we whack the buffet with full family and go home...:o

Your management is smart in providing good food.
Good food = good mood = agreement.
Btw, do they provide those sticky cake so after eating it, your mouth gets stuck and you can't talk?:)

[richwang]

new water for our project as well.

you might find the following useful.

www.bca.gov.sg/bmsm/others/strata_living.pdf (http://www.bca.gov.sg/bmsm/others/strata_living.pdf)

Thanks,
Richard

[peterng8]

Your management is smart in providing good food.
Good food = good mood = agreement.
Btw, do they provide those sticky cake so after eating it, your mouth gets stuck and you can't talk?:)

eat after AGM even those want to talk can have a chance to open their mouth..:p

last time lagi best...chinese reunion dinner but halal one...

[marktkt22]

Thanks Richard, for the link





new water for our project as well.

you might find the following useful.

www.bca.gov.sg/bmsm/others/strata_living.pdf (http://www.bca.gov.sg/bmsm/others/strata_living.pdf)

Thanks,
Richard

[Laguna]

to share, IMHO, the first AGM..

1. check the income and expediture for the period managed by the developer, and make sure there is a realistic budget for the coming year, and with sufficient fund to cover the expense, and if need to, propose a sinking fund as well.

2. need to have a few strong SPs with time and willing to commit to the estate


Once the MC is formed, there are some tasks to be done
1. get a strong managing agent
2. sum up all the past defects in the common properties and have a in depth inspection if needed.
3. review all the contracts and plan to recall some if service is no good or too costly.

[marktkt22]

Thanks laguna for your advice.
That useful info for newbie like me

[mcmlxxvi]

to share, IMHO, the first AGM..

1. check the income and expediture for the period managed by the developer, and make sure there is a realistic budget for the coming year, and with sufficient fund to cover the expense, and if need to, propose a sinking fund as well.

2. need to have a few strong SPs with time and willing to commit to the estate


Once the MC is formed, there are some tasks to be done
1. get a strong managing agent
2. sum up all the past defects in the common properties and have a in depth inspection if needed.
3. review all the contracts and plan to recall some if service is no good or too costly.

Yes... Think thats why we are called Subsidiary Proprietors as we are in fact like owning and running the business (estate) ... And just like many businesses there are active owners and sleeping partners...

[richwang]

Any clue of what is the reasonable management fees for MM Project with 100+ units?

I am paying S$150 per month. But a quick calculation from their accounts shows I need to pay S$220 per month.

I have happy to pay that amount, but is it the norm?

If owners refuse to pay enough fund, will the project become very run down 5-10 years later?

Thanks,
Richard

[DC33_2008]

Not cheap for a MM. Must be in the prime district. I am paying this for a 2 bedder in CCR.
Any clue of what is the reasonable management fees for MM Project with 100+ units?

I am paying S$150 per month. But a quick calculation from their accounts shows I need to pay S$220 per month.

I have happy to pay that amount, but is it the norm?

If owners refuse to pay enough fund, will the project become very run down 5-10 years later?

Thanks,
Richard

[CCR]

Any clue of what is the reasonable management fees for MM Project with 100+ units?

I am paying S$150 per month. But a quick calculation from their accounts shows I need to pay S$220 per month.

I have happy to pay that amount, but is it the norm?

If owners refuse to pay enough fund, will the project become very run down 5-10 years later?

Thanks,
Richard

Do not fall into the trap of saving money on sinking funds and mgmt fund...

A lot of cheapo sinaporean stay in condo then want to sting on monthly mgmt and sinking fund and in 10 years the condo will look like its 30 years old....

This is extremely short sighted...

just an example... if we spend just an extra $100 a month per unit... That will be $1200 per unit... x 10 years.... its only $12,000....

If you own a 1000sqft unit thats 12,000/1000... thats $12 per sqft....

dont you think you can recoup back these $12 psf if your condo is well maintained? you will prob get more in return...

Why do you think those high end CCR condo have high maintaince fees.... Coz they know how to preserve the value of their investment

[richwang]

Well said.
But the problem is I am the only person supporting a price raise.
The others just want to have better security guards, etc
and simply ignore the fact of shortfall in the fund.

Maybe some of them will just sell in less than 5 years.

I will insist people pay what they enjoy in the next meeting.
They are changing the Security Guard from Grade C to Grade A, from 1 night security guard to 2 night security guards. Just for this, S$30 more per unit is required.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. Is it a bad idea for no security guard? Some small project has no security guard, and it saves about 30% of the budget.

[peterng8]

Well said.
But the problem is I am the only person supporting a price raise.
The others just want to have better security guards, etc
and simply ignore the fact of shortfall in the fund.

Maybe some of them will just sell in less than 5 years.

I will insist people pay what they enjoy in the next meeting.
They are changing the Security Guard from Grade C to Grade A, from 1 night security guard to 2 night security guards. Just for this, S$30 more per unit is required.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. Is it a bad idea for no security guard? Some small project has no security guard, and it saves about 30% of the budget.



more security guards do not mean your place will be more secure...:p it will depend on how good your mgmt and guard are running the place...:o

[Rosy]

PS. Is it a bad idea for no security guard? Some small project has no security guard, and it saves about 30% of the budget.

There are many small projects without the luxury of having security guards due to economy of scale. I have not heard much about a breach of securities of such projects.

For small projects, it all depends on the strength and cohesiveness of the residents staying there to maintain and run the estate.

[richwang]

We've just got a few Committee members resigned.
Any incentives to keep people stay in the committee?

1) Allow one more parking quota?
2) Nice dinner?

... or

3) Get their prefered contractors to serve the project?

Does the law allow office bearers be paid token allowance?

Thanks,
Richard
PS. I am not an office bearer.

[hopeful]

why dont follow Singapore government style? Pay them attractive salary.

if people doesnt want to serve their own condo for no money, what more ask people to serve their country?:doh:

[buttercarp]

why dont follow Singapore government style? Pay them attractive salary.

if people doesnt want to serve their own condo for no money, what more ask people to serve their country?:doh:

It's true.....who wants to work for free?

In my place, during the AGM, some residents treat the resident committee members like servants.

The members have to keep reiterating that they are there to serve the residents voluntarily and it is not their job but everyone's to contribute towards harmonious living.

So there should be attractive incentives for them.

[PN]

why dont follow Singapore government style? Pay them attractive salary.

if people doesnt want to serve their own condo for no money, what more ask people to serve their country?:doh:

It's not because of money lah

Have you been a committee member before?
Do you know how much sacrifice committe members has done?

I've never been a CM but seen them spending their evening & weekends doing meetings. CM also take up project to improve the condo facilities & environment.

Have you seen committee members get scolded by the SP in AGM?
People just don't appreciate their efforts & keep complaining as if they can do a better job. :doh: But nobody want to be one.

A NO for me as well.

[teddybear]

No security guard considered a condo?
Surely having a security at least is good right? Otherwise how to ensure there are no strangers walk in and out of your private estate? "private estate" become "public" estate? What is the difference compared to HDB flats?


Well said.
But the problem is I am the only person supporting a price raise.
The others just want to have better security guards, etc
and simply ignore the fact of shortfall in the fund.

Maybe some of them will just sell in less than 5 years.

I will insist people pay what they enjoy in the next meeting.
They are changing the Security Guard from Grade C to Grade A, from 1 night security guard to 2 night security guards. Just for this, S$30 more per unit is required.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. Is it a bad idea for no security guard? Some small project has no security guard, and it saves about 30% of the budget.

[ysyap]

I've been to condos with security guards like no guards. They open the gate and smile at you even when you are a visitor to the condo. No further questions asked... wow! :scared-3:

[teddybear]

Wah ha?
Oh may be you better be careful because there is another pair of "eyes" following where you go? They have comprehensive CCTV cameras all around the estate right? :D


I've been to condos with security guards like no guards. They open the gate and smile at you even when you are a visitor to the condo. No further questions asked... wow! :scared-3:

[marktkt22]

Hi, for an apartment with just pool, what normally need to derive the sinking fund? Our firsw agm coming soon. 20 resident, small plot. I want to ensure sinking fund is sufficient

[Rosy]

Hi, for an apartment with just pool, what normally need to derive the sinking fund? Our firsw agm coming soon. 20 resident, small plot. I want to ensure sinking fund is sufficient
First of all, you need to decide on a good condo manager during your first AGM. You can use back the current one if they have been doing a good job.

[marktkt22]

First of all, you need to decide on a good condo manager during your first AGM. You can use back the current one if they have been doing a good job.
Thanks, likely we will change

[richwang]

I am new, sitting in the MC for just 1 year. It's not easy, 1/3 of the members have already quit.
I am paying S$150 for maintenance and S$50 for sinking fund. So that is about 1/3 of your current maintenance fee.
Looking at the foretasted 20 years budget, the main cost is indeed lift.
Pool seems to attract more running cost. Maybe when it is getting older, it will be a different story.

Thanks,
Richard

[richwang]

Are there rules (or house rules) that prevent people to drink within 1 meter of swimming pool?

Some residents think it is romantic to drink along the pool side (or even inside the pool),
but some residents think it is not safe (what if they break the bottle class).

Thanks,
Richard

[TheOnlyGayInTheVillage]

Are there rules (or house rules) that prevent people to drink within 1 meter of swimming pool?

Some residents think it is romantic to drink along the pool side (or even inside the pool),
but some residents think it is not safe (what if they break the bottle class).

Thanks,
Richard

Mine has huge sign that says no food or drinks nor pets allowed near pool area.

[Laguna]

Mine has huge sign that says no food or drinks nor pets allowed near pool area.

yes, we also removed all tables and chairs around the pools.
We had hard time before that so many pool side parties.

The guards do the petrol

[marktkt22]

Thanks to all for feedback,
agm over
Mc formed, all resolutn were approved

[richwang]

Can we use Management Fund to host some BBQ sessions for the MC members and families? If yes, what is the average amount per person.
The turn over of MC members is rather high, I just want to find ways to get busy people together (and work together.)

Thanks,
Richard

[TheOnlyGayInTheVillage]

I just came across the notice board of my tenanted out development of 40 units. the first agm attended by two owners only.

[Laguna]

Can we use Management Fund to host some BBQ sessions for the MC members and families? If yes, what is the average amount per person.
The turn over of MC members is rather high, I just want to find ways to get busy people together (and work together.)

Thanks,
Richard

Noop, u can't use the mgt fund for this....
I think there are certain regulation on the use of mgt fund...u can't even hold functions for the residents

[DC33_2008]

It will be a problem in the long run. :doh:
I just came across the notice board of my tenanted out development of 40 units. the first agm attended by two owners only.

[DC33_2008]

How to accumulate enough $ for major replacement?
I am new, sitting in the MC for just 1 year. It's not easy, 1/3 of the members have already quit.
I am paying S$150 for maintenance and S$50 for sinking fund. So that is about 1/3 of your current maintenance fee.
Looking at the foretasted 20 years budget, the main cost is indeed lift.
Pool seems to attract more running cost. Maybe when it is getting older, it will be a different story.

Thanks,
Richard

[richwang]

From Strata Living in Singapore:

"The quorum for a council meeting is the majority of the council members
if there are two or more members. If there is only one member in the council, the
quorum is that member."

So the MC can consist of just one person.

Thanks,
Richard

[richwang]

For those who don't want to hold the unit for 10 years, they want to see minimum sink fund.
I can foresee there will be a hard time to collect one time "Upgrade Fee". I guess you need 90% votes to do that.

Thanks,
Richard

[richwang]

There will be set of new rules coming, anyone has some hints?

Thanks,
Richard

[mygeemeel]

Curious... Does your condo provide intercom and card access only to lifts? I just took over a TOPed unit and realised these are not their scope of supply.

I expressed concern and was told they would increase number of security guards which I think isn't gonna be useful for the long term as there is just so much the guards can do.

Is it true that any addition of infrastructure, the cost would be deducted from sinking fund and not from developer after TOPed? I always thought so long as before first AGM and MC formed, home owners have the rights to enforce developers to pay for inadequate infrastructure?

Appreciate your inputs.

[teddybear]

What "condo" is that when you have no security features like:
1) Intercomm
2) card access to lift?
Developer say increase number of security guards (but didn't tell you "at your own expense"?!) :doh:
Sounds more like HDB flats to me... :beats-me-man:
Obviously any addition after TOP is from MCST fund. However, it depends on whether did developer wrote anything about providing these security features in their brochures etc? If yes, then MCST can take legal action against developer to make good at developer's expense.


Curious... Does your condo provide intercom and card access only to lifts? I just took over a TOPed unit and realised these are not their scope of supply.

I expressed concern and was told they would increase number of security guards which I think isn't gonna be useful for the long term as there is just so much the guards can do.

Is it true that any addition of infrastructure, the cost would be deducted from sinking fund and not from developer after TOPed? I always thought so long as before first AGM and MC formed, home owners have the rights to enforce developers to pay for inadequate infrastructure?

Appreciate your inputs.

[TheOnlyGayInTheVillage]

It will be a problem in the long run. :doh:

I know... guess I shud drop by the next one. but I am no good with money nor building maintenance stuff. maybe setup facebook page I can hahahaha....

[richwang]

After TOP, for the 1st year, the project is under warranty. So developer needs to correct any defects.
If it is additional for the infrastructure, owners need to pay. Indeed I believe you need 90% to pass the resolution.

By the way, it is not easy to add InterComm after the building is completed. The wires in the wall can be very complicated. So in your case, you can almost forget about it - unless the new wireless technology comes.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. My project has InterComm, card access to lift, etc. But no CCTV. We tried to get approval from the owners, but the motion was not passed due to some owners don't want to spend the money.

[evergreen]

Why people don't like to be in MC or attend meetings? Those in MC need to do many things? I thought they should care about their property and investment. :beats-me-man:

[teddybear]

Need time & responsibility but paid ZERO. Wait till you need to deal with recalcitrant owners & tenants who keep breaking rules in the estate. You will become the bad men/women trying to get their compliance. Heard such cases very common in heartlands (see newspaper reports).
Dealing with MA trying all means to make extra profit from almost all estate maintenance & repair work is another problem & responsibility. very common.

Time is MONEY for most people, TIme with family is even more precious!
Is it any wonder that few people want to serve in MCST?



Why people don't like to be in MC or attend meetings? Those in MC need to do many things? I thought they should care about their property and investment. :beats-me-man:

[evergreen]

There's no building manager?

[teddybear]

You mean the MA (Managing Agent)?
They are usually the wolfs we all trying to guard despite they doing most of the work? :p


There's no building manager?

[evergreen]

Yes, referring to the MA. How come the MC end up doing their job?
Can the MC fire the person working for the MA or fire the MA?

[teddybear]

The MC can fire the MA company (easier, within MC control), or the person working for the MA (more difficult, not within MC control but the MA's company). The transition has to be done properly else they end up with nobody taking care of the estate!



Yes, referring to the MA. How come the MC end up doing their job?
Can the MC fire the person working for the MA or fire the MA?

[evergreen]

Can hire myself? :D

[richwang]

Don't even try to hire yourself. Even with MA, there are so many troubles that MC need to sort out: planting, pool, late noise, dogs (and cats!), BBQ smell, late payment, lawyers, car parking, gates...

It is a public service, it is a calling. (and the price tag is zero.)

To fire an MA is also not that easy.

http://www.bca.gov.sg/BMSM/strata_living.html

An MA may be appointed or terminated by one of the following ways.
♦ By the MC through an ordinary resolution at a general meeting
♦ By the council without a general meeting if the council has been authorised
to do so by the SPs at the last preceding general meeting of the MC

Enjoy!
Richard

[TheOnlyGayInTheVillage]

One thing for sure... will appeal to people who low self esteem or power hungry bullied at work in day job.

[richwang]

The Zero pay strucuture for MC members can be VERY expensive.

You end up with lawyers, agents, contractors who are willing to serve the MC. They get "paid" from other channels.

Let's see whether the new rule will do anything about it.

Thanks,
Richard

[richwang]

Anyone has some guidelines for Open Tender for MA?
Is it a general practice to ask them to pay and tender?
I thought making tender is already spending efforts,
and it should be free.

Thanks,
Richard

[DC33_2008]

Better to go for invited tender once you have your scope of work drafted.
Anyone has some guidelines for Open Tender for MA?
Is it a general practice to ask them to pay and tender?
I thought making tender is already spending efforts,
and it should be free.

Thanks,
Richard

[richwang]

Thanks. Any sample of Scope of Work? ... or can the MC pay consultant (who cannot be future MA) to draft it?

Thanks,
Richard

[richwang]

Is it possible to convert some carpark to other usage?
For example, a mini-mart, or MA on site office.
Many licenses to apply? LTA, etc?

Thanks,
Richard

[richwang]

It is general practice to allocate one unit for one car park slot.
Can we alter the rule to allow Penthouse unit to have two car park slots when some units don't use the car park slots?

Thanks,
Richard

[maisonjai]

What if those units who don't use the lots are sold to new owners with cars? :tsk-tsk:

[Laguna]

The carpark is not part of the GFA, and not easy to convert as approval is needed.
If give two lots to penthouse, this must be approved by AGM.

In HK, carpark has separate strata title and sold separately, but not in Sg, as such, those units dun hv the cars, also cannot rent out the carpark lots.

[richwang]

http://amcis.org.sg/

Is there a fee to join Association of Management Corporations in Singapore?

Is it meant for large projects ... or more useful for small projects.

Thanks,
Richard

[richwang]

http://www.apfm.org.sg/

Any experiences with the following MA?

A4 International Pte Ltd
Affinity Property Consultants Pte Ltd
Barringham International Property Management Pte Ltd
Focal Property Services
Halley Services Pte Ltd
Ocean IFM Pte Ltd
Outocoz Property Services Pte Ltd
Pentagon Property Consultants Pte Ltd
Propmag Management Services Pte Ltd
Realty International Associates Pte Ltd
Realtylink Consultancy Pte Ltd
Wisely 98 Pte Ltd

Thanks,
Richard

[CP5211]

What "condo" is that when you have no security features like:
1) Intercomm
2) card access to lift?
Developer say increase number of security guards (but didn't tell you "at your own expense"?!) :doh:
Sounds more like HDB flats to me... :beats-me-man:
Obviously any addition after TOP is from MCST fund. However, it depends on whether did developer wrote anything about providing these security features in their brochures etc? If yes, then MCST can take legal action against developer to make good at developer's expense.
Hello,
Ours is a project (less than 100 units) in Telok Kurau area by listed developer. No inter-comm, no card access also. Only guard house with 2 guards. Check brochures and indeed didn't mention anything with regards to such features : (. I saw some projects in TK which comes with main gate with sensor (no guard house) but developer of my project told me no good as the sensor prone to break down. Is it true?

[Laguna]

Hello,
Ours is a project (less than 100 units) in Telok Kurau area by listed developer. No inter-comm, no card access also. Only guard house with 2 guards. Check brochures and indeed didn't mention anything with regards to such features : (. I saw some projects in TK which comes with main gate with sensor (no guard house) but developer of my project told me no good as the sensor prone to break down. Is it true?

Developer saves cost lah!
very exp to have guards for 24 hours X 2.

[CP5211]

Developer saves cost lah!
very exp to have guards for 24 hours X 2.

Thanks Laguna. Lesson learnt.

But is it true that those main gates which comes with sensor breaks down easily?

[CP5211]

Developer saves cost lah!
very exp to have guards for 24 hours X 2.

How much does an automatic main gate cost? Assuming the salary of 2 guards is $6,000 per month (sorry just a very rough guess), 1 year is about $72,000. But we don't have inter-comm so I guess its not just a matter of replacing guard house with automatic main gates?

[felicia_sg]

2 guards at any time per 12 hours shift each will cost $10k-14k pm.
Install intercomm to 100 units $200k.
I guess Card-access gate $50k, card-access lifts x2 $400k.
So "reputable" developer saves money on security features & you employ 2 guards also not enough as they can be lured away, sleeping at night etc.
Your estate got CCTV?


How much does an automatic main gate cost? Assuming the salary of 2 guards is $6,000 per month (sorry just a very rough guess), 1 year is about $72,000. But we don't have inter-comm so I guess its not just a matter of replacing guard house with automatic main gates?

[felicia_sg]

Not true. Sensor won't break down easily, only mechanical parts will.


Hello,
Ours is a project (less than 100 units) in Telok Kurau area by listed developer. No inter-comm, no card access also. Only guard house with 2 guards. Check brochures and indeed didn't mention anything with regards to such features : (. I saw some projects in TK which comes with main gate with sensor (no guard house) but developer of my project told me no good as the sensor prone to break down. Is it true?

[CP5211]

2 guards at any time per 12 hours shift each will cost $10k-14k pm.
Install intercomm to 100 units $200k.
I guess Card-access gate $50k, card-access lifts x2 $400k.
So "reputable" developer saves money on security features & you employ 2 guards also not enough as they can be lured away, sleeping at night etc.
Your estate got CCTV?

Thanks Felicia for your info. Yes there is CCTV. A consolation

[richwang]

Any good auditing firm to recommend?
By the way, I like the local law. It says if an office bearer in MC wants to resign, it will NOT take effect until his replacement is appointed.
So think carefully before you take up this volunteer role, in particular if your project is small.

Thanks,
Richard