View Full Version : Anybody here ever lost $$$ in property...
Just curious....seems like i hear a lot of people make tonnes of $$$...but good to share wats the downside risks...i personally just a normal working singaporean and made some decent $$ in investing over past few years but i know that this is also a RISKY business...:o
share share if u got story to tell maybe about your friends relatives,....IN-LAWS:D:D:D
ikan bilis
12-01-12, 18:43
you never read news meh??... lots of those last time... :scared-3:
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http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/RealEdge/message/1093
April 7, 2006
OCBC'S SUIT AGAINST FAMILY
Retirement plan turns into $23m nightmare
They took overdraft to build houses on plot, hoping to sell later - but plan goes awry
By K.C. Vijayan (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/sendmail/0,5576,EmailReporter-383363-20000,00.html?)
IT COSTS the Moeys some $3,500 every day in interest payments alone to keep the District 10 properties a court ordered on Tuesday to be returned to a bank.
They owe OCBC Bank $23 million in all, much more than the $14 million the three bungalows are expected to fetch in the current property market.
Now the family of three has to hand over two units to the bank within a week and has three weeks to vacate the third bungalow in which they live.
What had started out as a money-making retirement plan for Mr Moey Keng Weng, 70, former chief financial officer of Malaysia-Singapore Airlines, the forerunner of Singapore Airlines, his wife and daughter, has left them homeless.
The saga began in 1996 when Mr Moey's daughter, Meng Yee, 33, took a Tat Lee Bank (TLB) overdraft guaranteed by Mr Moey and his wife to develop four units on a plot of land in Jalan Ampang.
With Mr Moey's Central Provident Fund money and his daughter's skills as an architect, the plan was to build the bungalows, sell three of the units and live in the fourth at No 48.
Two years later, they refinanced the loan when the overdraft was exceeded.
They managed to sell off one unit, but were still saddled with the remaining three.
Speaking to The Straits Times yesterday, Mr Moey said the monthly interest exceeded $100,000. But after May 2003, he stopped receiving the statement of accounts and legal proceedings ensued instead.
He said the family went into the project at a time when prospective property 'vultures' were willing to pay between $3.5 million and $5 million for a unit.
But the market dipped in the wake of the Asian financial crisis in June 1997 and the regional financial meltdown that followed.
Two units were left unsold and have been unoccupied since.
'I was just unlucky and was financially run over, just like a car accident then,' he said.
So what happened?
As he told it, the arrangement with TLB then was that the loans were not to be repaid until the units were sold.
He claimed that in 1998, the bank, which was negotiating merger terms with Keppel Bank, decided to make provisions for or write off his daughter's debt as part of the $487 million 'adjustments' before the takeover.
It made commercial sense to do so, he said, or Keppel Bank would have had to issue additional stock to TLB shareholders if it were to take over the debt and this would have affected the share exchange ratio.
Mr Moey is clearly upset with OCBC's assertion in court that he had fabricated the story about having being told by TLB officers that the debt had been written off.
'The decision to write off was a professional one and should be seen in perspective. There was no question at the time that I was indebted and was running away from paying what was due to Tat Lee Bank,' he said.
'It is not as if a decision was made between two close friends to write off a bad loan or that I've fabricated a story.'
The merged entity, Keppel TatLee Bank, started legal action against the Moeys in April 1999 to recover the money but did not follow through.
In 2001, Keppel TatLee merged with OCBC Bank, which sued the family the following year.
What was a $13 million debt in 1998 had now soared by an additional $10 million through interest and related costs.
Mr Moey claimed that he was not allowed to lease or sell the two units from the time they were completed even though he had ready buyers with cheques in hand and tenants for $10,000 a month because of the disarray following the merger and no one could be located to give the go-ahead.
He said he ended up paying the full property tax of about $117,000 annually for the three units.
On Tuesday, OCBC's lawyer Kenny Chooi argued successfully that even if the debt had been written off, the bank could still sue to recover the money. A write-off is merely an 'internal accounting entry' - not the same as 'forgiving' a debt which means a mutual agreement where the bank waives the debt, on some condition.
The day after the court decision, hordes of motorists drove past to gawk at the properties.
Mr Moey is considering an appeal through his lawyer Andre Arul.
Asked about his future plans, he said half in jest: 'Do you know a place I can rent? I have no choice but to move out.'
vijayan@... (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/RealEdge/post?postID=jt4Bsx8fWo7HejfnWMCPmkguzVyMQmqFxEkZP_FzXjklSjCEgl42VM3uvpZR6MAtGkYKNBWCm9Y3)
Just curious....seems like i hear a lot of people make tonnes of $$$...but good to share wats the downside risks...i personally just a normal working singaporean and made some decent $$ in investing over past few years but i know that this is also a RISKY business...:o
share share if u got story to tell maybe about your friends relatives,....IN-LAWS:D:D:D
those who lost probably vanish into thin air lolx. where will look back and surf for properties or props forums...:D
ikan bilis
12-01-12, 18:54
those who lost probably vanish into thin air lolx. where will look back and surf for properties or props forums...:D
umm... how'bout they become no happy with burnt backside, come back forum and everyday/10-minutes shout bear/crash can or not ??... :scared-4:
umm... how'bout they become no happy with burnt backside, come back forum and everyday/10-minutes shout bear/crash can or not ??... :scared-4:
this group probably missed the boat, or never profit.. or being priced out.
but not the lose money group
You probably can guess who these are? :o
umm... how'bout they become no happy with burnt backside, come back forum and everyday/10-minutes shout bear/crash can or not ??... :scared-4:
The story is very sad...
but who suggested betting the farm on doing the 4 bungalows?
How come don't be more conservative and do 2 instead ?
Earn slowly better than die in a blaze of "gory"
The story is very sad...
but who suggested betting the farm on doing the 4 bungalows?
How come don't be more conservative and do 2 instead ?
Earn slowly better than die in a blaze of "gory"
don't died cock standing:D
Just curious....seems like i hear a lot of people make tonnes of $$$...but good to share wats the downside risks...i personally just a normal working singaporean and made some decent $$ in investing over past few years but i know that this is also a RISKY business...:o
share share if u got story to tell maybe about your friends relatives,....IN-LAWS:D:D:D
Downside risks.
1. Interest payment.
2. Maintenance payment.
3. Property tax.
4. Lost all deposit and still have to pay different of price drop.
umm... how'bout they become no happy with burnt backside, come back forum and everyday/10-minutes shout bear/crash can or not ??... :scared-4:The resemblance is uncanny! :D
Lost $16k on timeshare (still have it la, so maybe not considered lost)
Lost $35k on a boathouse. Literally boat house. Not that condo.
i dunno but personally i feel if you dont overlevarage and you buy within your means and affordability things should be ok....but human nature is such once you taste easy money you tend to be greedy and act irrationally...correct me if i am wrong...:cool:
i think thats why our good govt has stepped in to prevent DISASTER from happening...seems like singapore property market is driven by the monkey sentiment....i.e monkey see monkey DO..:D
Honestly if things dont slow down i think we can expect cm 6/7/8/9...10:scared-1:
Anyway good to share amongst all bros here so many years from now we can continue to share ideas and hope we can all do well in our investments...:)
Cheers my :2cents:
Regulators
12-01-12, 20:44
Important lesson is buy only if you can afford to lose in a downturn.
1 word sum it all GREED!
If one buys better buy within one's affordability. :)
bigapplefan
12-01-12, 22:15
The story is very sad...
but who suggested betting the farm on doing the 4 bungalows?
How come don't be more conservative and do 2 instead ?
Earn slowly better than die in a blaze of "gory"
ya, one shot do 4 bungalows.. a bit much
I have 2 overseas properties vacant....is that considered a loss? :beats-me-man:
So how much is over leverage? how much leverage is the limit?
I have 2 overseas properties vacant....is that considered a loss? :beats-me-man:
Yes. Vacant properties are considered loss.
Most people dont realise that while other asset class like shares, gold, etc require u to come up with an initial sum and thats it! Property is one of the few assets that can become a liability.
All here should know the monthly payments required for a property, so if there is not rental, they u are holding on to something that requires u to fork out cash each month.
DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool
Yes. Vacant properties are considered loss.
Most people dont realise that while other asset class like shares, gold, etc require u to come up with an initial sum and thats it! Property is one of the few assets that can become a liability.
All here should know the monthly payments required for a property, so if there is not rental, they u are holding on to something that requires u to fork out cash each month.
DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool
Gold should be under liability category right?
Cars are assets for car rental companies.
some of the HDB in far reach of SG has been known to be non performing.
For those, I think loose money , Should owners move on or hold in the hope of a comeback ?
Yes. Vacant properties are considered loss.
Most people dont realise that while other asset class like shares, gold, etc require u to come up with an initial sum and thats it! Property is one of the few assets that can become a liability.
All here should know the monthly payments required for a property, so if there is not rental, they u are holding on to something that requires u to fork out cash each month.
DKSG
Stay Calm and CoolHowever, there are some vacant properties which are intentionally left unoccupied. These are vacation homes, some call them summer homes. They should not be occupied and the cost have been factored initially. Hmmmm... these houses help to save on accomodation cost during holiday. Just like during holiday, one's homes are also left vacant but we don't consider them losses! :o
umm... how'bout they become no happy with burnt backside, come back forum and everyday/10-minutes shout bear/crash can or not ??... :scared-4:
stupid moron......:)
ikan bilis
13-01-12, 08:08
stupid moron......:)
hello!!, you cannot scold those people who keep kpkb property to crash on forums as stupid moron hor, as they could be....
- lost too much in properties liow... burnt until no backside
- pitching tents at changi beach now, and heavy rain outside
- kena dumped by girl friend because cannot afford a condo
- landlord knocking at the door now, chasing for rent payment...
- or, missed the boat jialat jialat, and very "eye-red-red" now...
can you imagine how sad state they are in.... and please be more understanding... :scared-3: :scared-3:
Jonathan0503
13-01-12, 08:14
Yes. Vacant properties are considered loss.
Most people dont realise that while other asset class like shares, gold, etc require u to come up with an initial sum and thats it! Property is one of the few assets that can become a liability.
All here should know the monthly payments required for a property, so if there is not rental, they u are holding on to something that requires u to fork out cash each month.
DKSG
Stay Calm and Cool
I won't really call it a loss if the value of the property is still appreciating.
Just like any other commodities like gold that you have mentioned.
Even equities like stocks. If dividend is not paid, would you call investing in equities a loss?
hello!!, you cannot scold those people who keep kpkb property to crash on forums as stupid moron hor, as they could be....
- lost too much in properties liow... burnt until no backside
- pitching tents at changi beach now, and heavy rain outside
- kena dumped by girl friend because cannot afford a condo
- landlord knocking at the door now, chasing for rent payment...
- or, missed the boat jialat jialat, and very "eye-red-red" now...
can you imagine how sad state they are in.... and please be more understanding... :scared-3: :scared-3:
coward....be a man....:)
ikan bilis
13-01-12, 08:46
coward....be a man....:)
those people cannot afford the 20% downpayment for condo lah...
most of them already do not even have the 5% option fee....
so they can only kpkb property to crash on forum lor... free of charge...
:scared-4:
those people cannot afford the 20% downpayment for condo lah...
most of them already do not even have the 5% option fee....
so they can only kpkb property to crash on forum lor... free of charge...
:scared-4:
who are they? how do you know they can't afford??....
ikan bilis
13-01-12, 08:55
who are they? how do you know they can't afford??....
haha... i know you are very free the whole day...
me not so free to play with you...
can you go look for devilplate....
;)
haha... i know you are very free the whole day...
me not so free to play with you...
can you go look for devilplate....
;)
moron salted fish.....
moron salted fish.....
Now you come out to scold people in other thread
Why don't you get lost if you don't like what people said here, as you always suggest?
Just curious....seems like i hear a lot of people make tonnes of $$$...but good to share wats the downside risks...i personally just a normal working singaporean and made some decent $$ in investing over past few years but i know that this is also a RISKY business...:o
share share if u got story to tell maybe about your friends relatives,....IN-LAWS:D:D:D
Ever lost before, of course...
I have 2 overseas properties vacant....is that considered a loss? :beats-me-man:
Where is your property, Europe, US or Australia?
Just curious....seems like i hear a lot of people make tonnes of $$$...but good to share wats the downside risks...i personally just a normal working singaporean and made some decent $$ in investing over past few years but i know that this is also a RISKY business...:o
share share if u got story to tell maybe about your friends relatives,....IN-LAWS:D:D:D
Just my views
Firstly, to get an accurate picture first time HDB home buyers must be excluded. I have never heard of anybody who bought their first flat from HDB lost money on resale.
Secondly, a period must be defined. For example if you say the last 10 years, I think most people have made money. However if you say the last 15 years the result may be very different.
Human are egotistical animal. Only winners will boast their winning. Losers will always keep quiet and disappear.
After so many pages and posts, my theory is proven correct. Cheers!
Human are egotistical animal. Only winners will boast their winning. Losers will always keep quiet and disappear.
After so many pages and posts, my theory is proven correct. Cheers!
I had lost money on the equity market but not on properties. Almost all projects bought at the 97 peak would have breakeven by now if one have holding power.
Human are egotistical animal. Only winners will boast their winning. Losers will always keep quiet and disappear.
After so many pages and posts, my theory is proven correct. Cheers!
A winner forever? Unless one retired.;)
BTW, many past losers were also blinded by many many sweet stories/analysis from their good greedy agents. :cool:
Human are egotistical animal. Only winners will boast their winning. Losers will always keep quiet and disappear.
After so many pages and posts, my theory is proven correct. Cheers!
I thought the Asian mentality is the reverse.
If an Asian wins big in the casino he will likely say he won just a little. But when he loses a little, he will exagerrate until machiam lost whole family fortune. Of course there are exceptions to the rule and there are many boastful Asians as well.
Also I think bcoz of the anonymity of the internet, people in forums such as this are normally not so truthful and tend to be bolder than they really are in real life
Unless we are force to sell due to loss of job or other financial difficulites, or else very unlikey anyone will lose money if you were to look at the URA I dex throughout the years....
I think bishan 8 was selling for 1100 psf in 1997 at the peak? Now also surpases this level Liao...
Unless we are force to sell due to loss of job or other financial difficulites, or else very unlikey anyone will lose money if you were to look at the URA I dex throughout the years....
I think bishan 8 was selling for 1100 psf in 1997 at the peak? Now also surpases this level Liao...
they probably pocketed some rental money in the meantime.
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