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esther
05-01-12, 20:43
Multi-property owner speaks up
I AM put off by the latest round of cooling measures ('Property curbs could hurt economy: Redas'; Dec 28).

I am a Singaporean and own three private properties. I studied hard. I work hard. I employ Singaporeans and contribute to the economy. I pay annual taxes that amount to what some earn in a year.

To me, meritocracy works - and counts, and there are no short cuts: You work hard, you make money and you pay your dues. But now, I am told that as a native Singaporean who has run the gauntlet of our much vaunted meritocracy, I must be penalised further by that very same system because I invested my hard-earned rewards in more than one local property.

This is enough to drive me from the country I grew up in and in which I am still contributing, to think the better of investing here and invest in a property in another country that does not discriminate against high-income earners.

Does my money count? Do I count?

Tan Cheng Hock

mcmlxxvi
05-01-12, 20:58
3 cheers for Mr Tan. I bet he is one of the forummer here...

Allthepies
05-01-12, 21:16
Yup 3 cheers!! :cheers1: :cheers1: :cheers1:

teddybear
05-01-12, 21:23
I support ya! Why discriminate against us who work hard to earn and choose to invest in private properties? Govt should just respect market forces with respect to private property market, otherwise how to become like London and New York? :beats-me-man:
Those who can't afford should just stick with HDB flats and ECs. There already many choices there! Stop CPCB! Otherwise sooner or later I pull my fund & business fully out of Singapore! I believe many others will do the same! :simmering:


Multi-property owner speaks up
I AM put off by the latest round of cooling measures ('Property curbs could hurt economy: Redas'; Dec 28).

I am a Singaporean and own three private properties. I studied hard. I work hard. I employ Singaporeans and contribute to the economy. I pay annual taxes that amount to what some earn in a year.

To me, meritocracy works - and counts, and there are no short cuts: You work hard, you make money and you pay your dues. But now, I am told that as a native Singaporean who has run the gauntlet of our much vaunted meritocracy, I must be penalised further by that very same system because I invested my hard-earned rewards in more than one local property.

This is enough to drive me from the country I grew up in and in which I am still contributing, to think the better of investing here and invest in a property in another country that does not discriminate against high-income earners.

Does my money count? Do I count?

Tan Cheng Hock

azeoprop
05-01-12, 21:23
Yah loh why penalize your own citizens owning part of his country? :mad:

flxcat
05-01-12, 21:33
Multi-property owner speaks up
I AM put off by the latest round of cooling measures ('Property curbs could hurt economy: Redas'; Dec 28).

I am a Singaporean and own three private properties. I studied hard. I work hard. I employ Singaporeans and contribute to the economy. I pay annual taxes that amount to what some earn in a year.

To me, meritocracy works - and counts, and there are no short cuts: You work hard, you make money and you pay your dues. But now, I am told that as a native Singaporean who has run the gauntlet of our much vaunted meritocracy, I must be penalised further by that very same system because I invested my hard-earned rewards in more than one local property.

This is enough to drive me from the country I grew up in and in which I am still contributing, to think the better of investing here and invest in a property in another country that does not discriminate against high-income earners.

Does my money count? Do I count?

Tan Cheng Hock

A natural reaction :)
Can't it be the tide has turned, now is the opportunity for those who has worked hard, saved up and still contributing equally high income earners to use their hard earned reward to buy when the price is right?

I think he will not make such remarks if he is holding on to his hard earned reward and waiting on the sideline patiently.

Investment is about patience and within ones means and ability to ride over any uncertainties and emerge as winner. Just to share an alternative perspective.

mcmlxxvi
05-01-12, 22:21
I just dont get it. Citizens should be encouraged to buy properties, the more the merrier, as it directly contributes to the local economy. Just impose a 5yr MOP if govt like, to ward off speculation. Why penalise them for buying?

Its simply a poor excuse to ride on and take advantage of the situation to add on to the gahmen coffers...

teddybear
05-01-12, 22:37
Coffeeshop talk: Landed property prices going to crash the worst! You know, these people's salary got cut by 35%, so landed should come down by 35% to maintain their purchasing power! And these people only buy landed for security and privacy reasons.... :beats-me-man:


A natural reaction :)
Can't it be the tide has turned, now is the opportunity for those who has worked hard, saved up and still contributing equally high income earners to use their hard earned reward to buy when the price is right?

I think he will not make such remarks if he is holding on to his hard earned reward and waiting on the sideline patiently.

Investment is about patience and within ones means and ability to ride over any uncertainties and emerge as winner. Just to share an alternative perspective.

Regulators
05-01-12, 23:10
Private property should indeed be outside the purview of govt cooling measures if it involves singaporean buyers. Govt can curb foreign buying but it makes no sense for govt to tax singaporeans who wish to buy more than one property for the purposes of investment. Whether or not property is to be used as a tool for investment, it is a person's individual freedom. Providing housing for the masses should only be the mandate of hdb and it has nothing to do with the private pty market. Why should HDB valuations be affected by private property prices when hdb prices are pegged to past hdb transactions and not to private pty prices?

august
05-01-12, 23:10
ABSD is just 3%, and not 10%, and he makes so much noise? LOL

Regulators
05-01-12, 23:12
If his next purchase is a $10 million landed property, 3% is $300000


ABSD is just 3%, and not 10%, and he makes so much noise? LOL

august
05-01-12, 23:13
If his next purchase is a $10 million landed property, 3% is $300000

but prices are primed to fall in 2012 what, so he should be happy leh.

PN
06-01-12, 07:20
but prices are primed to fall in 2012 what, so he should be happy leh.

If he has multiple properties, he also want to sell for profits. All the CM will affect him. Foreigners investors gone. Must hold >4yrs or SSD applies.

Even if he buy before CM4, CM5 will Of course upset him lah.

irisng
06-01-12, 07:52
I support ya! Why discriminate against us who work hard to earn and choose to invest in private properties? Govt should just respect market forces with respect to private property market, otherwise how to become like London and New York? :beats-me-man:
Those who can't afford should just stick with HDB flats and ECs. There already many choices there! Stop CPCB! Otherwise sooner or later I pull my fund & business fully out of Singapore! I believe many others will do the same! :simmering:

I strongly support too. When I just got married, can't afford a pte ppty, (though I wished so much to have one), no choice, l choose to stay in HDB flat. During that time, even furniture was given by my brother-in-law when he wanted to dispose his and we bought a 2nd hand washing machine. We saved so hard, no branded goods, no purchase of expensive stuff. Then 10 yrs later, govt implemented the EC, our wish came true. But we still saved very hard for our 2nd ppty (for investment) which was bought last yr after another 10 yrs of saving and now govt came out with such cm to penalise Singaporean to own 3rd ppty, this will definitely affect the ppty market. Though addn 3% might be little to some people but it might meant a lot to others.:(

Allthepies
06-01-12, 08:00
I strongly support too. When I just got married, can't afford a pte ppty, (though I wished so much to have one), no choice, l choose to stay in HDB flat. During that time, even furniture was given by my brother-in-law when he wanted to dispose his and we bought a 2nd hand washing machine. We saved so hard, no branded goods, no purchase of expensive stuff. Then 10 yrs later, govt implemented the EC, our wish came true. But we still saved very hard for our 2nd ppty (for investment) which was bought last yr after another 10 yrs of saving and now govt came out with such cm to penalise Singaporean to own 3rd ppty, this will definitely affect the ppty market. Though addn 3% might be little to some people but it might meant a lot to others.:(

I feel relieve to know that there are still hardworking, determined Singaporeans around who strive to attain his/her dreams using one's own efforts and abilities. Kudos to u!! :cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:

august
06-01-12, 08:27
If he has multiple properties, he also want to sell for profits. All the CM will affect him. Foreigners investors gone. Must hold >4yrs or SSD applies.

Even if he buy before CM4, CM5 will Of course upset him lah.

so it has to do with him unable to offload at higher profits, nothing to do with meritocracy. lol

Laguna
06-01-12, 08:54
ya, I fully support this as well especially for retirees like me putting all the hard earned monies for the last 30+ years into properties.

Also, why the govt does not introduce cooling measures for share market if it is getting hot?

august
06-01-12, 08:57
ya, I fully support this as well especially for retirees like me putting all the hard earned monies for the last 30+ years into properties.

Also, why the govt does not introduce cooling measures for share market if it is getting hot?

this question should be most pertinent for public housing, HDBs. :)

teddybear
06-01-12, 09:27
It is not the 3% that matter, but a matter of perception of policy changes that discriminate against the PRs and foreigners in terms of investible investment assets. PRs and foreigners are predominantly active in private property market, and latest CM will definitely affect private property market for sure. So govt sending signal that they will do anything to bring the private property prices down including dsscriminating all prior investors in order to allow the young Citizens and those Citizens don't own private property to own one more cheaply? :banghead:

On the other hand, providing cheap public housing (i.e. HDB flats) is their national mandate and promise to Singapore Citizens, and on this front, they have failed miserably for the past few years and even up to now! Otherwise, how to explain that 5rm HDB new flat selling at $7xx,000 (regardless of DBSS or even "Palace" renovation - who cares since HDB is supposed to provide cheap housing!) and yet size have shrunk from the typical 1300 sqft to 1100 sqft? :doh:
Also how to explain that resale HDB flat selling at $8xx,000?
Regardless of new HDB flats or resale HDB flats, it is MND and HDB mandate to ensure their sufficient supply and flat and cheap prices! Those who got so much money should just go buy private and not cause HDB flat prices to inflate beyond reach of general lower income group!


I strongly support too. When I just got married, can't afford a pte ppty, (though I wished so much to have one), no choice, l choose to stay in HDB flat. During that time, even furniture was given by my brother-in-law when he wanted to dispose his and we bought a 2nd hand washing machine. We saved so hard, no branded goods, no purchase of expensive stuff. Then 10 yrs later, govt implemented the EC, our wish came true. But we still saved very hard for our 2nd ppty (for investment) which was bought last yr after another 10 yrs of saving and now govt came out with such cm to penalise Singaporean to own 3rd ppty, this will definitely affect the ppty market. Though addn 3% might be little to some people but it might meant a lot to others.:(

Leeds
06-01-12, 09:47
Real estate is like essential service or commodity such as rice and salt which governments anywhere in the world have to regulate to ensure "fair" distribution be it for economic, political or social reasons or a combination of the three. The primary role of the government is to distribute wealth fairly to the people or at least perceive to be fair. It is always not easy to decide who get what. Government can only do through rules and regulations to maintain market order without which the rich will become richer and the poor will always remain poor or even poorer. This will result in social unrest once income disparity become a serious threat to the country.

Unless the country is stable with social cohesiveness, our multiple investments in real estate will one day perish if government allows a free hands on essential services and services. Real estates be it HDB flats or private properties are essential goods that can have a serious implication of toward a country economic, social political stability.

We should not behave like Readas' chief whose comments on the CM5 was clearly motivated by self interest.

Just another point of view and no mean to offend anyone who differ this writing.

rattydrama
06-01-12, 10:15
HDB flat is here as basic essential services. this discussion here is why discriminate multiple property owners who slaught hard in and for Singapore.

multiple investments in real estate may not be Signaporens but also funds managers and foreigners.

is owning 3-4 properties considered alot? Are we not encouraging pro-creation?:p

What about those foreigners owning a tower of reflections?

To me, i think the additional 3% of ABSD due to Singaprean buyers is not necessary.

perhaps foreigners should pay additional tax for buying multiple property.

TKT
06-01-12, 10:20
Real estate is like essential service or commodity such as rice and salt which governments anywhere in the world have to regulate to ensure "fair" distribution be it for economic, political or social reasons or a combination of the three. The primary role of the government is to distribute wealth fairly to the people or at least perceive to be fair. It is always not easy to decide who get what. Government can only do through rules and regulations to maintain market order without which the rich will become richer and the poor will always remain poor or even poorer. This will result in social unrest once income disparity become a serious threat to the country.

Unless the country is stable with social cohesiveness, our multiple investments in real estate will one day perish if government allows a free hands on essential services and services. Real estates be it HDB flats or private properties are essential goods that can have a serious implication of toward a country economic, social political stability.

We should not behave like Readas' chief whose comments on the CM5 was clearly motivated by self interest.

Just another point of view and no mean to offend anyone who differ this writing.


I agree with you and I also agree with the author of the letter, Mr Tan.

It is not easy to strike a balance what is morally right or economically wrong, or vice versa.

I still think that Singapore had a unique system which you cannot compare to other countries like HKG or Japan or USA.

We had for decades a relatively stable and progressive property market, that fluctuates according to market forces but moderated by strong underpinning from the fact that >80% of the population was in HDB.

Fast forward the past 3 years, what happened?

- massive influx of immigration from 3m to 5m, without corresponding increase in infrastructure.

- the refusal of authorities to base land sales on tender outcomes, ie if it was too low, they have the right to reject ... ie land costs never comes down

- multi-million dollar salaries at the public offices of the land and the mindset that goes with this, drawing resentment and unhappiness but at the same time, indirectly exhorting and implying to Singaporeans that if you dont earn $600k per year, you are less than a peanut.

In a small island like Singapore, of cos things will inevitably explode when you are torn at some many directions... you can only satisfy some people some of the time and not everybody all the time.

rattydrama
06-01-12, 10:33
there is no perfect system. gov can do what they think fit but dont ruin the country for popularity and at the expense of our future generations.

Santro
06-01-12, 10:50
Agree with Mr Tan's sentiments.
My views on the CMs.
1) New HDB is exclusively for Singaporeans and should be heavily subsidised.
2) Resale HDB is for Singaporeans and PRs. Increase subsidy for First time Singaporeans buying resale HDB irrespective of distance from parents etc.
3) Young Singaporeans consider HDB as their first step to owning a property and hence the upside should not be limited. Thats the only way they can make financial gains while upgrading from HDB to condo/landed.
Prices of resale HDB should not be controlled.
4) Singaporeans should not be restricted with 3% ABSD.
5) PR should have 10% ABSD for second property onwards.
6) Foreigners should have 10% ABSD from first property onwards.

4,5 and 6 will provide incentives to Singaporeans and encourage non-Singaporeans to take citizenship.

These are my personal views..:cool: No offence to anyone..

PN
06-01-12, 11:22
Government policy is to provide affordable government subsidised housing with HDB and that is the mission of HDB.

Still remember this? 居者有其屋
80% Singaporean is already enjoying the fruit of this government hdb policy.

Private is not for everyone leh. You not capable don't earn that much why must you own one? Why must bring make it affordable for the kpkb youngsters hah. Since when it becomes 居者有公寓?

Political. GE2016. So somebody has to sacrifice.

jwong71
06-01-12, 12:48
Government policy is to provide affordable government subsidised housing with HDB and that is the mission of HDB.

Still remember this? 居者有其屋
80% Singaporean is already enjoying the fruit of this government hdb policy.

Private is not for everyone leh. You not capable don't earn that much why must you own one? Why must bring make it affordable for the kpkb youngsters hah. Since when it becomes 居者有公寓?

Political. GE2016. So somebody has to sacrifice.

fair game le.

govt policy to provide affordable housing to pple, but many pple mess up the hdb segment market to their speculating tool and rental cash cow. making the prices out of reach.

now its payback time. govt start to mess up the pte segment lolx. :D

ysyap
06-01-12, 13:48
For every argument, there's definitely counter-arguments...
Singaporeans should be treated with more exclusivity... :cheers1:Lol... I'm a Singaporean... Hahaha!

Agree with Santro. Make citizens feel special... :cool:

mcmlxxvi
06-01-12, 13:55
The argument is that the CM5 is all fine and dandy. But the part on absd (reads like short form for ABSurD right???) for Singaporean buying third property is so off.... Means what? If u can afford 3rd or more properties, you can be considered 'foreigner' and no more first class privileged citizen liao??? What BS! (aBSd)

PN
06-01-12, 14:07
fair game le.

govt policy to provide affordable housing to pple, but many pple mess up the hdb segment market to their speculating tool and rental cash cow. making the prices out of reach.

now its payback time. govt start to mess up the pte segment lolx. :D

Like that should have CM for hdb leh.

For a start,
Own private must sell away hdb lah. Cannot own both at same time.
New hdb must sell at 50% discount to 1st time buyers.
Government Land sales must be cheaper
And SSD for hdb resales
And ...

jwong71
06-01-12, 14:26
Like that should have CM for hdb leh.

For a start,
Own private must sell away hdb lah. Cannot own both at same time.
New hdb must sell at 50% discount to 1st time buyers.
Government Land sales must be cheaper
And SSD for hdb resales
And ...

i haf trust in our govt,to implement CMs to controlling hdb soon..:D

to whack the pte segments, the govt must also whack the hdb suppot level too. to bring down the prices, of both pte and hdb

gn108
06-01-12, 14:36
Foreigner 10% extra, 3props-SG only extra 3% - still got 7% citizenry discount wor...


The argument is that the CM5 is all fine and dandy. But the part on absd (reads like short form for ABSurD right???) for Singaporean buying third property is so off.... Means what? If u can afford 3rd or more properties, you can be considered 'foreigner' and no more first class privileged citizen liao??? What BS! (aBSd)

jwong71
06-01-12, 14:40
Foreigner 10% extra, 3props-SG only extra 3% - still got 7% citizenry discount wor...

haha.. the 3% not there in the 1st place.

to tell oneself got 7% discount citizenry is just 自我安慰

gn108
06-01-12, 14:52
No extra 3% are for the 'less blessed' Singaporeans with only 0-2 props.
Those 'blessed' with 2 and more, should give 'offerings' for their 'abundance' in buying 3rd or more.

Ai ya...it's political la...kena slap so many times now the Powers That Be, are pushing all sorts of buttons to maintain their Diety-like presence. But so-far not so All-Powerful with MRT, flooding. Furthermore, had the PR-boohoo with the 'Malay-Indian' cannot speak the English and Grace 'Money No Enough' Fu.

Like this no one will be happy



haha.. the 3% not there in the 1st place.

to tell oneself got 7% discount citizenry is just 自我安慰

rattydrama
06-01-12, 14:54
No extra 3% are for the 'less blessed' Singaporeans with only 0-2 props.
Those 'blessed' with 2 and more, should give 'offerings' for their 'abundance' in buying 3rd or more.

Ai ya...it's political la...kena slap so many times now the Powers That Be, are pushing all sorts of buttons to maintain their Diety-like presence. But so-far not so All-Powerful with MRT, flooding. Furthermore, had the PR-boohoo with the 'Malay-Indian' cannot speak the English and Grace 'Money No Enough' Fu.

Like this no one will be happy

its not very nice to push button every 2-3 quarter, it does tell you something.

gn108
06-01-12, 15:13
It's going to be a interesting next 4 years...nagivate thro' all the bad karma created over the last 10-odd years + settle existing issues + hope no new ones befall. Then just wait to see if there are economic storms - but can't stop it. In the meantime, must recruit and trim non-performers. Pay also less, voters angry - every little thing now jump on.

Hard to earn the $1m - but alot of it is their own doing.

To answe your question - panic lor




its not very nice to push button every 2-3 quarter, it does tell you something.

irisng
06-01-12, 17:32
Agree with Mr Tan's sentiments.
My views on the CMs.
1) New HDB is exclusively for Singaporeans and should be heavily subsidised.
2) Resale HDB is for Singaporeans and PRs. Increase subsidy for First time Singaporeans buying resale HDB irrespective of distance from parents etc.
3) Young Singaporeans consider HDB as their first step to owning a property and hence the upside should not be limited. Thats the only way they can make financial gains while upgrading from HDB to condo/landed.
Prices of resale HDB should not be controlled.
4) Singaporeans should not be restricted with 3% ABSD.
5) PR should have 10% ABSD for second property onwards.
6) Foreigners should have 10% ABSD from first property onwards.

4,5 and 6 will provide incentives to Singaporeans and encourage non-Singaporeans to take citizenship.

These are my personal views..:cool: No offence to anyone..

I support your views.:cheers1:

irisng
06-01-12, 17:43
I feel relieve to know that there are still hardworking, determined Singaporeans around who strive to attain his/her dreams using one's own efforts and abilities. Kudos to u!! :cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:

Unfortunately, nowadays youngsters don't think that. They see people live in pte condo, they also want, can't wait, want immediate fruit. Although some of them might be drawing a high pay but they might be still young, just started to work, where got enough saving. Stay in HDB first lah, then climb step by step lor, aiyah!

teddybear
06-01-12, 18:47
Worse still, so many complains on HDB flat super high prices and yet no tough cooling measures (like those implemented for private properties)! Where is the tough cooling measure implemented previously and removed and never implemented again when this time HDB flats prices shot through the roof to reach newest high ever?:
1) anybody who buy private property must sell their existing HDB flats within 6 months?
2) no tenanting out of whole HDB flat since HDB flats meant for own stay only?
3) People who previously own both HDB flats and private properties can only rent out private properties and must stay in HDB flats?



ya, I fully support this as well especially for retirees like me putting all the hard earned monies for the last 30+ years into properties.

Also, why the govt does not introduce cooling measures for share market if it is getting hot?

teddybear
06-01-12, 18:52
Wow! This sound like COMMUNISTS to me!
If so, how to justify PM annual pay of $2.2m vs cleaners' pay of <$10k a year? That is 22,000% ratio!!! How? PM himself not practising what you preach in terms of pay? If so, how to be fair only doing for other things? :p


Real estate is like essential service or commodity such as rice and salt which governments anywhere in the world have to regulate to ensure "fair" distribution be it for economic, political or social reasons or a combination of the three. The primary role of the government is to distribute wealth fairly to the people or at least perceive to be fair. It is always not easy to decide who get what. Government can only do through rules and regulations to maintain market order without which the rich will become richer and the poor will always remain poor or even poorer. This will result in social unrest once income disparity become a serious threat to the country.

Unless the country is stable with social cohesiveness, our multiple investments in real estate will one day perish if government allows a free hands on essential services and services. Real estates be it HDB flats or private properties are essential goods that can have a serious implication of toward a country economic, social political stability.

We should not behave like Readas' chief whose comments on the CM5 was clearly motivated by self interest.

Just another point of view and no mean to offend anyone who differ this writing.

sh
06-01-12, 19:13
Worse still, so many complains on HDB flat super high prices and yet no tough cooling measures (like those implemented for private properties)! Where is the tough cooling measure implemented previously and removed and never implemented again when this time HDB flats prices shot through the roof to reach newest high ever?:
1) anybody who buy private property must sell their existing HDB flats within 6 months?
2) no tenanting out of whole HDB flat since HDB flats meant for own stay only?
3) People who previously own both HDB flats and private properties can only rent out private properties and must stay in HDB flats?

totally agree. Why are private property owners of 3 properties penalized when public housing is not "public". The bubble in property prices is driven by high HDB prices. It's all political!

PN
06-01-12, 19:38
Unfortunately, nowadays youngsters don't think that. They see people live in pte condo, they also want, can't wait, want immediate fruit. Although some of them might be drawing a high pay but they might be still young, just started to work, where got enough saving. Stay in HDB first lah, then climb step by step lor, aiyah!

They don't have patient mah. But they smart & have an easy way leh. They know government want to win GE & must understand 民情.

So they kpkb here, kpkb there and the message is loud & clear. Give it to me or .......

Multiple properties owners don't kpkb so much or loud enough.

So the score now stands at
kpkb youngsters/people 1 multi-properties owners 0

Leeds
06-01-12, 21:39
Wow! This sound like COMMUNISTS to me!
If so, how to justify PM annual pay of $2.2m vs cleaners' pay of <$10k a year? That is 22,000% ratio!!! How? PM himself not practising what you preach in terms of pay? If so, how to be fair only doing for other things? :p

No! no! not! Just Basic Economic Theory!

Whether capitalism, communism or socialism, the primary role of the government is to redistributed wealth back to its people. Singapore chooses capitalism thus far. Maybe a little of socialism come nearer to 2016.

richwang
07-01-12, 05:28
If you look at the ultra rich men in US and UK, they are very keen to donate. Why?
They know that's the best way to save their lives.
Ultra Rich = Smart + Lucky + ...
If you take ultra rich for granted, you are putting your lives at risk.
My grandfather used to own properties along the whole street in his town, he had 3 farms and 2 factories. He thought he could take care of his children and grandchildren. But guess what, he lost his own life because of these.
OK, it was China.
Now let's look at Singapore. Pick my most admired person LKY for example. Can he be 100% sure he can be the top man if we re-run history one more time? If he cannot, are you 100% sure you can be ultra rich if you need to make all the investment decisions one more time?
Let's admit there is a factor of luck in our successes. And for that, let's contribute randomly by donation or systematically by tax.
There is no doubt that Singapore is under taxed for ultra rich, and our social safety net is nowhere to be First World.
Once again, social safety net is NOT for the poor, it is to save the LIVES of the ultra rich.

Thanks,
Richard

august
07-01-12, 14:07
If you look at the ultra rich men in US and UK, they are very keen to donate. Why?
They know that's the best way to save their lives.
Ultra Rich = Smart + Lucky + ...
If you take ultra rich for granted, you are putting your lives at risk.
My grandfather used to own properties along the whole street in his town, he had 3 farms and 2 factories. He thought he could take care of his children and grandchildren. But guess what, he lost his own life because of these.
OK, it was China.
Now let's look at Singapore. Pick my most admired person LKY for example. Can he be 100% sure he can be the top man if we re-run history one more time? If he cannot, are you 100% sure you can be ultra rich if you need to make all the investment decisions one more time?
Let's admit there is a factor of luck in our successes. And for that, let's contribute randomly by donation or systematically by tax.
There is no doubt that Singapore is under taxed for ultra rich, and our social safety net is nowhere to be First World.
Once again, social safety net is NOT for the poor, it is to save the LIVES of the ultra rich.

Thanks,
Richard

they donate bcos they understand the big picture
a society with weak foundation is unstable and will soon crumble and those at the top will fall the hardest... when the lynching begins, they will always be targeted first.

rattydrama
07-01-12, 14:20
to give is to take more. even our gov did that many times.

esther
07-01-12, 20:29
S'poreans benefit from property cooling moves
*
Published on Jan 7, 2012
*
CONTRARY to Mr Tan Cheng Hock's view that Singaporeans are victims, the latest property cooling measures are long overdue ('Multi-property owner speaks up'; Thursday).

Asian property markets have boomed due to the effects of the ultra-low interest rate environment. Singapore is no exception.

However, property investors are now facing the prospects of the 'bust' after the boom. There have been reports of property investors in China wrecking showrooms after the developers gave hefty discounts to new investors due to poor demand. Property markets in Hong Kong and Australia have also fallen. Will Singapore be an exception this time, taking into account the uncertain economic situation? I doubt so.

One role of the regulator is to ensure a stable and sustainable market. If property bubbles are allowed to develop and subsequently burst, would there be complaints that hardworking Singaporeans have been penalised because the regulators did nothing, or worse, encouraged speculative buying?

Most property investments are leveraged. Should the property market collapse, losses would be magnified. Multiple property owners with bank borrowings would be the hardest hit.

By actively preventing speculative price movements in the property market, Singapore's property investment climate will gain a good reputation and recognition and attract long-term investors. Singaporeans will ultimately be the beneficiaries.

As highlighted by Mr Ed Cheong ('Singapore's property investment climate still among world's most open; Dec 12), local property rules are still relatively open despite the new measures.

Investing in foreign properties carries additional risks such as liquidity, taxes, estate, currency and regulatory considerations. Investors will have to take these matters into account and decide for themselves if they are willing and able to take on the risks and not be blinded by seemingly foreigner-friendly policies.

Eng Tiang Chuan

mcmlxxvi
07-01-12, 23:16
S'poreans benefit from property cooling moves
*
Published on Jan 7, 2012
*
CONTRARY to Mr Tan Cheng Hock's view that Singaporeans are victims, the latest property cooling measures are long overdue ('Multi-property owner speaks up'; Thursday).

Asian property markets have boomed due to the effects of the ultra-low interest rate environment. Singapore is no exception.

However, property investors are now facing the prospects of the 'bust' after the boom. There have been reports of property investors in China wrecking showrooms after the developers gave hefty discounts to new investors due to poor demand. Property markets in Hong Kong and Australia have also fallen. Will Singapore be an exception this time, taking into account the uncertain economic situation? I doubt so.

One role of the regulator is to ensure a stable and sustainable market. If property bubbles are allowed to develop and subsequently burst, would there be complaints that hardworking Singaporeans have been penalised because the regulators did nothing, or worse, encouraged speculative buying?

Most property investments are leveraged. Should the property market collapse, losses would be magnified. Multiple property owners with bank borrowings would be the hardest hit.

By actively preventing speculative price movements in the property market, Singapore's property investment climate will gain a good reputation and recognition and attract long-term investors. Singaporeans will ultimately be the beneficiaries.

As highlighted by Mr Ed Cheong ('Singapore's property investment climate still among world's most open; Dec 12), local property rules are still relatively open despite the new measures.

Investing in foreign properties carries additional risks such as liquidity, taxes, estate, currency and regulatory considerations. Investors will have to take these matters into account and decide for themselves if they are willing and able to take on the risks and not be blinded by seemingly foreigner-friendly policies.

Eng Tiang Chuan
Disgusting bootlicking... This guy running for MP next election?

hopeful
07-01-12, 23:33
Disgusting bootlicking... This guy running for MP next election?

this guy actually has good idea.
since leverage is a problem,
those who pay full cash should be exempted from any ABSD, be it citizen, pr, foreigner. also should be exempted from SSD too.

no leverage = no problem

howgozit
08-01-12, 10:51
Wise words from a wise man.

Thank you sir for your perspective.



If you look at the ultra rich men in US and UK, they are very keen to donate. Why?
They know that's the best way to save their lives.
Ultra Rich = Smart + Lucky + ...
If you take ultra rich for granted, you are putting your lives at risk.
My grandfather used to own properties along the whole street in his town, he had 3 farms and 2 factories. He thought he could take care of his children and grandchildren. But guess what, he lost his own life because of these.
OK, it was China.
Now let's look at Singapore. Pick my most admired person LKY for example. Can he be 100% sure he can be the top man if we re-run history one more time? If he cannot, are you 100% sure you can be ultra rich if you need to make all the investment decisions one more time?
Let's admit there is a factor of luck in our successes. And for that, let's contribute randomly by donation or systematically by tax.
There is no doubt that Singapore is under taxed for ultra rich, and our social safety net is nowhere to be First World.
Once again, social safety net is NOT for the poor, it is to save the LIVES of the ultra rich.

Thanks,
Richard

hopeful
08-01-12, 11:01
If you look at the ultra rich men in US and UK, they are very keen to donate. Why?
They know that's the best way to save their lives.
Ultra Rich = Smart + Lucky + ...
If you take ultra rich for granted, you are putting your lives at risk.
My grandfather used to own properties along the whole street in his town, he had 3 farms and 2 factories. He thought he could take care of his children and grandchildren. But guess what, he lost his own life because of these.
OK, it was China.
Now let's look at Singapore. Pick my most admired person LKY for example. Can he be 100% sure he can be the top man if we re-run history one more time? If he cannot, are you 100% sure you can be ultra rich if you need to make all the investment decisions one more time?
Let's admit there is a factor of luck in our successes. And for that, let's contribute randomly by donation or systematically by tax.
There is no doubt that Singapore is under taxed for ultra rich, and our social safety net is nowhere to be First World.
Once again, social safety net is NOT for the poor, it is to save the LIVES of the ultra rich.

Thanks,
Richard

it is because of occidental religion. You only lived once and died once only.
oriental religion, can live many times and die many times due to reincarnation, in effect have many chances, like indian and chinese beliefs.
example, that's how the Aryans (from ancient Iran) control the populace they conquered by implementing the caste system.
If you are a good slave by performing the duties a slave should, you can move up the ladder in the next life. so don't revolt in this life cycle please.

mcmlxxvi
08-01-12, 16:15
this guy actually has good idea.
since leverage is a problem,
those who pay full cash should be exempted from any ABSD, be it citizen, pr, foreigner. also should be exempted from SSD too.

no leverage = no problem
No leverage where banks get business from? Am sure you know many local banks good bulk of business is from mortgage... No business no need so many headcounts. Worse impact on job market...

hopeful
08-01-12, 18:48
No leverage where banks get business from? Am sure you know many local banks good bulk of business is from mortgage... No business no need so many headcounts. Worse impact on job market...

supposedly multiple property owners are rich, and foreigners are even more cash rich. Wouldn't it be good to give them an option, if paid full in cash, can escape the SSD and ABSD? if they want to use local financing to buy more properties, unfortunately then they have to be hit by ABSD. if overseas financing, no need ABSD.
of course, for the citizens who can afford up to 2 properties, they still have the option to mortgage and avoid the ABSD.

irisng
08-01-12, 19:08
If you look at the ultra rich men in US and UK, they are very keen to donate. Why?
They know that's the best way to save their lives.
Ultra Rich = Smart + Lucky + ...
If you take ultra rich for granted, you are putting your lives at risk.
My grandfather used to own properties along the whole street in his town, he had 3 farms and 2 factories. He thought he could take care of his children and grandchildren. But guess what, he lost his own life because of these.
OK, it was China.
Now let's look at Singapore. Pick my most admired person LKY for example. Can he be 100% sure he can be the top man if we re-run history one more time? If he cannot, are you 100% sure you can be ultra rich if you need to make all the investment decisions one more time?
Let's admit there is a factor of luck in our successes. And for that, let's contribute randomly by donation or systematically by tax.
There is no doubt that Singapore is under taxed for ultra rich, and our social safety net is nowhere to be First World.
Once again, social safety net is NOT for the poor, it is to save the LIVES of the ultra rich.

Thanks,
Richard

My grandfather had a few plot of rubber plantations in Indonesia and had 3 wives. When the war striked, everybody ran for their lives. SAFETY FIRST.:D

samsara
08-01-12, 19:15
War, sickness and death are the biggest equalisers of humanity.


My grandfather had a few plot of rubber plantations in Indonesia and had 3 wives. When the war striked, everybody ran for their lives. SAFETY FIRST.:D

sh
08-01-12, 20:06
soo.... what's the moral of the story from these 2 real life examples?.....:confused:

Don't keep all your money in the same place,:rolleyes: err properties in the same country.....

hmmmm... but where?:beats-me-man:

teddybear
08-01-12, 21:07
Below argument fill of holes, smack of bootlicking? :scared-2:
[1] This is his speculation, not fact or truth. Singapore property prices in CCR are just too too cheap if we compare to HK, London & NY etc! As such, there is no need for cooling measures, especially targeting foreigners. If govt's concern is OCR prices going too high, just ban foreigners from buying OCR can already lor! :p

[2] Another of the "what if"! :doh:
What if war occur in Singapore? What if sea level rise so high that whole Singapore got submerged?
Might as well mandate that every house must have a boat in bomb-shelter (:tongue3:)!

[3] What bullshit? Many companies are also highly leverage, eg Olam, Noble, even SIA are leverage etc! If what he said is true, Singapore should just ban all companies in Singapore from being leveraged! :tsk-tsk:
Otherwise when these companies failed, the banks will go bankcrupt and with dire consequences to Singapore, economy, and depositors money!

[4] So he is saying that by introducing policies that discriminate against the foreigners and slapping them with 10% tax that does not apply to others (e.g the few special exempted countries & citizens), "Singapore's property investment climate will gain a good reputation and recognition and attract long-term investors"??? :confused: :eek: :banghead:

[5] Now end up scare everybody goes overseas to buy properties and come out with scare-mongering tactic? :doh:


S'poreans benefit from property cooling moves
*
Published on Jan 7, 2012
*
CONTRARY to Mr Tan Cheng Hock's view that Singaporeans are victims, the latest property cooling measures are long overdue ('Multi-property owner speaks up'; Thursday).

Asian property markets have boomed due to the effects of the ultra-low interest rate environment. Singapore is no exception.

However, [1] property investors are now facing the prospects of the 'bust' after the boom. There have been reports of property investors in China wrecking showrooms after the developers gave hefty discounts to new investors due to poor demand. Property markets in Hong Kong and Australia have also fallen. Will Singapore be an exception this time, taking into account the uncertain economic situation? I doubt so.

[2] One role of the regulator is to ensure a stable and sustainable market. If property bubbles are allowed to develop and subsequently burst, would there be complaints that hardworking Singaporeans have been penalised because the regulators did nothing, or worse, encouraged speculative buying?

[3] Most property investments are leveraged. Should the property market collapse, losses would be magnified. Multiple property owners with bank borrowings would be the hardest hit.

[4] By actively preventing speculative price movements in the property market, Singapore's property investment climate will gain a good reputation and recognition and attract long-term investors. Singaporeans will ultimately be the beneficiaries.

As highlighted by Mr Ed Cheong ('Singapore's property investment climate still among world's most open; Dec 12), local property rules are still relatively open despite the new measures.

[5] Investing in foreign properties carries additional risks such as liquidity, taxes, estate, currency and regulatory considerations. Investors will have to take these matters into account and decide for themselves if they are willing and able to take on the risks and not be blinded by seemingly foreigner-friendly policies.

Eng Tiang Chuan

mcmlxxvi
08-01-12, 21:42
supposedly multiple property owners are rich, and foreigners are even more cash rich. Wouldn't it be good to give them an option, if paid full in cash, can escape the SSD and ABSD? if they want to use local financing to buy more properties, unfortunately then they have to be hit by ABSD. if overseas financing, no need ABSD.
of course, for the citizens who can afford up to 2 properties, they still have the option to mortgage and avoid the ABSD.

Read teddy reply that followed... Think he screen every point of that politcal bootlicker well....

irisng
09-01-12, 07:53
Another of the "what if"! :doh:
What if war occur in Singapore? What if sea level rise so high that whole Singapore got submerged?
Might as well mandate that every house must have a boat in bomb-shelter (:tongue3:)!



That's why I always think that though Singapore is small without any resources but it can developed into what we are today is really amazing. Lets pray hard not to have any natural disasters and natural disasters not only happen in Singapore, it can happen anywhere in the world.

Overall Singapore is still a safe country.:cheers4:

proud owner
09-01-12, 08:28
[quote=teddybear]Below argument fill of holes, smack of bootlicking? :scared-2:
[1] This is his speculation, not fact or truth. Singapore property prices in CCR are just too too cheap if we compare to HK, London & NY etc! As such, there is no need for cooling measures, especially targeting foreigners. If govt's concern is OCR prices going too high, just ban foreigners from buying OCR can already lor! :p


i feel we cannot compare Singapore with London and NY ...

they are true cosmopolitan ... and singapore is not ...not yet ...

i read an article recently about what makes a true city ...
, NY London Paris Tokyo .. take the top spots ...

HK , Taiwan ... are ranked higher than singapore ...

so ..CCR props in singapore ARE expensive ...

having said that ... when it comes to condo architecture .. i will say ..singapore condos 'design' take the top spot ... (exterior design ..not layout)

ysyap
09-01-12, 09:06
[1] This is his speculation, not fact or truth. Singapore property prices in CCR are just too too cheap if we compare to HK, London & NY etc! As such, there is no need for cooling measures, especially targeting foreigners. If govt's concern is OCR prices going too high, just ban foreigners from buying OCR can already lor! :p
Can't agree more... stop foreigners to buy OCR and RCR... or impose higher ABSD for OCR and RCR for foreigners. Let Singaporeans feel they are very different (not just a difference of 3% vs 10%). :cheers1:Hee... a selfish Singaporean talking here...

rattydrama
09-01-12, 09:23
No problem for the foreigners to pay 10% extra as they're rich. The question will be is our Singapore property still remain attractive to the foreigners in long term.

I think the answer could be yes as price for CCR has been very stable. If it is still not moving much for another 12 months, I guess more will come in.

mcmlxxvi
09-01-12, 11:43
Another of the "what if"! :doh:
What if war occur in Singapore? What if sea level rise so high that whole Singapore got submerged?
Might as well mandate that every house must have a boat in bomb-shelter (:tongue3:)!



That's why I always think that though Singapore is small without any resources but it can developed into what we are today is really amazing. Lets pray hard not to have any natural disasters and natural disasters not only happen in Singapore, it can happen anywhere in the world.

Overall Singapore is still a safe country.:cheers4:

You are right... It is the safeness, transparency of doing business, efficiency of public infrastructure (ah ha! May not be anymore...) that adds on to the perceived value of property investment in Singapore...

teddybear
09-01-12, 11:53
I don't agree with what you say. OK, let's not compare with NY and London, let's compare with Asian cities like HK, most similar to Singapore. Why HK CCR is 3x that of Singapore CCR prices? And furthermore Singapore condos are way better than HK in terms of number of units (much smaller number of units, more exclusive), design, layout, maintenance, rules & regulations etc! So I believe CCR is way undervalued. Now, in CCR you can get at $14xx psf (e.g. Aspen Heights, Valley Park). If CCR is way over valued, how do you term OCR like Bedok Residences transacted at $1350 psf? So OCR is way way over-valued and in super BUBBLE price? Why you didn't highlight the super bubble OCR price? :doh:


[quote=teddybear]Below argument fill of holes, smack of bootlicking? :scared-2:
[1] This is his speculation, not fact or truth. Singapore property prices in CCR are just too too cheap if we compare to HK, London & NY etc! As such, there is no need for cooling measures, especially targeting foreigners. If govt's concern is OCR prices going too high, just ban foreigners from buying OCR can already lor! :p


i feel we cannot compare Singapore with London and NY ...

they are true cosmopolitan ... and singapore is not ...not yet ...

i read an article recently about what makes a true city ...
, NY London Paris Tokyo .. take the top spots ...

HK , Taiwan ... are ranked higher than singapore ...

so ..CCR props in singapore ARE expensive ...

having said that ... when it comes to condo architecture .. i will say ..singapore condos 'design' take the top spot ... (exterior design ..not layout)

proud owner
09-01-12, 12:04
[quote=teddybear]I don't agree with what you say. OK, let's not compare with NY and London, let's compare with Asian cities like HK, most similar to Singapore. Why HK CCR is 3x that of Singapore CCR prices? And furthermore Singapore condos are way better than HK in terms of number of units (much smaller number of units, more exclusive), design, layout, maintenance, rules & regulations etc! So I believe CCR is way undervalued. Now, in CCR you can get at $14xx psf (e.g. Aspen Heights, Valley Park). If CCR is way over valued, how do you term OCR like Bedok Residences transacted at $1350 psf? So OCR is way way over-valued and in super BUBBLE price? Why you didn't highlight the super bubble OCR price? :doh:



lets break this up ...

as what i posted earlier ... CCR is expensive compared to other major cities ..


comparing with HK ...
we have a smaller population.. spore may be smaller in land size but ..buildable land ..HK is smaller ... higher population + smaller buildable land + higher ranking to spore as a cosmopolitan ... HK naturally command higher psf ...


Aspen and valley park are very old ... check out One Jervios ..u cant get it at 1450 psf ...


as for OCR ... Bedok residences is absolutely ridiculous .. i dun know what they were thicking ... but it is ... for OCR 99 LH .. anything above 1000 psf is expensive ...

if HK govt were to allow the public housing in HK to trade how our HDB are doing .. i am sure all the OCR in HK will just be like those OCR in spore too ..if not higher

proud owner
09-01-12, 12:08
[quWhy you didn't highlight the super bubble OCR price? :doh:



i was only replying to your earlier post where yuo specifically mentioned CCR ..comparing it with NY and London

but if your were to have included OCR ...and comparing them with OCR in NY , Ldn , HK .. i would also have mentioned it ...

so you cannot ask why i didnt highlight the prices in OCR mah ... right ?

teddybear
09-01-12, 12:12
No you are wrong, they are not very old. Aspen Heights only 11+ years old. Spent $100 psf to renovate interior and they will be new. That won't cost total >$1550 psf.

Talk of HK, what is the point of so-called higher ranking? Whose ranking is that? Do you know many fund management companies shifting from HK to Singapore? It means HK no longer a premium place to live in. Number one major complain: The air is now very polluted! :doh: There are several more. Got to ask those people shifting. :p


[quote=teddybear]I don't agree with what you say. OK, let's not compare with NY and London, let's compare with Asian cities like HK, most similar to Singapore. Why HK CCR is 3x that of Singapore CCR prices? And furthermore Singapore condos are way better than HK in terms of number of units (much smaller number of units, more exclusive), design, layout, maintenance, rules & regulations etc! So I believe CCR is way undervalued. Now, in CCR you can get at $14xx psf (e.g. Aspen Heights, Valley Park). If CCR is way over valued, how do you term OCR like Bedok Residences transacted at $1350 psf? So OCR is way way over-valued and in super BUBBLE price? Why you didn't highlight the super bubble OCR price? :doh:



lets break this up ...

as what i posted earlier ... CCR is expensive compared to other major cities ..


comparing with HK ...
we have a smaller population.. spore may be smaller in land size but ..buildable land ..HK is smaller ... higher population + smaller buildable land + higher ranking to spore as a cosmopolitan ... HK naturally command higher psf ...


Aspen and valley park are very old ... check out One Jervios ..u cant get it at 1450 psf ...


as for OCR ... Bedok residences is absolutely ridiculous .. i dun know what they were thicking ... but it is ... for OCR 99 LH .. anything above 1000 psf is expensive ...

if HK govt were to allow the public housing in HK to trade how our HDB are doing .. i am sure all the OCR in HK will just be like those OCR in spore too ..if not higher