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lyn
21-12-11, 15:04
Which is a better buy? Glendale at 900 psf freehold or hillier ar 1100psf 99 years but new?

Also saw latest caveat of glendale at 807psf for 1367Sqft ? Is that right or is it because it has lots of pes area?

Astronotus oscellatus
21-12-11, 15:06
Which is a better buy? Glendale at 900 psf freehold or hillier ar 1100psf 99 years but new?

Also saw latest caveat of glendale at 807psf for 1367Sqft ? Is that right or is it because it has lots of pes area?
Glendale.
Freehold.
More space to stroll around in.
Cross road can go Hillier to buy barang.

yjcai
21-12-11, 15:32
Glendale and Hillington Green for your consideration. Hillview Heights is too old


Which is a better buy? Glendale at 900 psf freehold or hillier ar 1100psf 99 years but new?

Also saw latest caveat of glendale at 807psf for 1367Sqft ? Is that right or is it because it has lots of pes area?

whoh757
21-12-11, 16:03
what about Parc Palais or symphony heights? nice.


Glendale and Hillington Green for your consideration. Hillview Heights is too old

Wild Falcon
21-12-11, 16:08
A lot of PES. About 15% of Glendale Park units are double volume ceiling at the top floor. And another 15% are ground floor units with a huge garden.

1367 sq ft is probably only a 2 bedder of 1000sq ft with 367 sqft of "airspace" and PES.

The standard size units fetch above 1000psf. Just going through the caveats - the standard size (with no PES and double volume ceiling) are 1,216, 1313, 1033 and 1,044 sq ft. Anything else probably has a lot of PES.


Which is a better buy? Glendale at 900 psf freehold or hillier ar 1100psf 99 years but new?

Also saw latest caveat of glendale at 807psf for 1367Sqft ? Is that right or is it because it has lots of pes area?

Wild Falcon
21-12-11, 16:14
Further from MRT. Park Palais interior finishing not up to mark and small windows. Symphony Height a bit cheesy with the pseudo European architecture but depend on your taste.

Can consider Summerhill.


what about Parc Palais or symphony heights? nice.

yjcai
21-12-11, 16:18
what about Parc Palais or symphony heights? nice.

Symphony Heights. When food runs out in Bukit Timah Hill or railway corridors. Family of monkeys will come. It happened before. I think it should not happen again due to DTL construction. Nature becomes no more nature. Hume station, D21. Not so close to Hillier

Parc Palais. Slightly older. Hume station, D21. Not so close to Hillier.

Overall, when they deforest this area for train construction. Animals like squirrels like to frequent condos in this area hopping around.

yjcai
21-12-11, 16:22
Summerhill is good, used to be more expensive 5-7 years ago. District is 21 and not 23

lyn
21-12-11, 20:51
Regret not buying glendale 2 years ago. Wonder if any more upight

Geylang OKT
21-12-11, 21:20
Hilltop Grove, Montrosa, Hillview Green :D :D :D

whoh757
21-12-11, 21:58
there is only one mrt right? hillview mrt next to SCB? previous plan was for a hume mrt but was finally scrapped isnt it? i.e. location wise, glendale park and hillview heights best.

summerhill: yes nice too, but i think all units either face the noisy humming upper bukit timah road or will be West facing. this not too sure, bros..



Symphony Heights. When food runs out in Bukit Timah Hill or railway corridors. Family of monkeys will come. It happened before. I think it should not happen again due to DTL construction. Nature becomes no more nature. Hume station, D21. Not so close to Hillier

Parc Palais. Slightly older. Hume station, D21. Not so close to Hillier.

Overall, when they deforest this area for train construction. Animals like squirrels like to frequent condos in this area hopping around.

Regulators
22-12-11, 15:01
there will come a time when mrt no longer becomes a significant factor in property hunt. to have one mrt station near hillview and no other amenities like supermarkets, food centre, local banks, cinemas etc to me is not a plus point for the condo. the best is of course to be near mrt and other amenities. I think many home owners here hardly take the train and I for one do not take the train.

danntbt
25-12-11, 16:54
....hahaha, perhaps not so long ago....bust-stop was a selling point too.....

solsys
25-12-11, 23:13
there will come a time when mrt no longer becomes a significant factor in property hunt. to have one mrt station near hillview and no other amenities like supermarkets, food centre, local banks, cinemas etc to me is not a plus point for the condo. the best is of course to be near mrt and other amenities. I think many home owners here hardly take the train and I for one do not take the train.

Totally agree. MRT condos are way overhyped.

hyenergix
26-12-11, 05:31
there will come a time when mrt no longer becomes a significant factor in property hunt. to have one mrt station near hillview and no other amenities like supermarkets, food centre, local banks, cinemas etc to me is not a plus point for the condo. the best is of course to be near mrt and other amenities. I think many home owners here hardly take the train and I for one do not take the train.

What if COE is $100k again? What if one day you decide to rent it out? What if you decide to sell it?

danntbt
26-12-11, 07:33
What if COE is $100k again? What if one day you decide to rent it out? What if you decide to sell it?
If COE is 100K....the economy must be doing well liao.......so what's the problem? Property price will go up too...

Regulators
26-12-11, 08:44
Then you must think about the number of expats renting east coast where there is no mrt? eateries and other amenities appeal to tenants, not just mrt. Brookvale in sunset way is unwalkable even to the main road, not to mention mrt, but you still get tenants who want to rent the place for its serenity.
What if COE is $100k again? What if one day you decide to rent it out? What if you decide to sell it?

mastrix
26-12-11, 10:01
What if COE is $100k again? What if one day you decide to rent it out? What if you decide to sell it?
u worry too much.

flagship74
26-12-11, 10:20
u worry too much.
auntie u're not worry arrgh...?:D

mastrix
26-12-11, 12:25
auntie u're not worry arrgh...?:D
Can u change the whole situation when u worry? Uncle, relax lah.

flagship74
26-12-11, 21:11
Can u change the whole situation when u worry? Uncle, relax lah.

Finally u knew!!whahaha..:D

mastrix
26-12-11, 21:23
Finally u knew!!whahaha..:D
I knew all the while, just that you still don't get it...Uncle Noob.

flagship74
27-12-11, 08:19
I knew all the while, just that you still don't get it...Uncle Noob.

oh really auntie..wahaha...:doh:

Wild Falcon
27-12-11, 08:55
I think it depends on the individual. Not everyone likes to stay beside a cinema or lots of large shopping malls or pubs. Some prefer peace and exclusivity in their home.

MRT would be an important factor now and in the future. I would say the lack of MRT would be a great disadvantage. As for Hillier, the shopping mall HillV2 will address some of the issues like supermarkets and food center. Once the MRT station is up, you're sure to find lots of retail and makan outlets within the station as well. And also the conserved rail corridor nearby and Bukit Timah Hill and Bt Batok Hill and Mindef and Dairy Farm conservation area would ensure green spaces remain where they are.


there will come a time when mrt no longer becomes a significant factor in property hunt. to have one mrt station near hillview and no other amenities like supermarkets, food centre, local banks, cinemas etc to me is not a plus point for the condo. the best is of course to be near mrt and other amenities. I think many home owners here hardly take the train and I for one do not take the train.

danntbt
27-12-11, 11:25
I think it depends on the individual. Not everyone likes to stay beside a cinema or lots of large shopping malls or pubs. Some prefer peace and exclusivity in their home.

MRT would be an important factor now and in the future. I would say the lack of MRT would be a great disadvantage. As for Hillier, the shopping mall HillV2 will address some of the issues like supermarkets and food center. Once the MRT station is up, you're sure to find lots of retail and makan outlets within the station as well. And also the conserved rail corridor nearby and Bukit Timah Hill and Bt Batok Hill and Mindef and Dairy Farm conservation area would ensure green spaces remain where they are.
...so sounds like a good buy......

mygeemeel
27-12-11, 11:40
If i have to live in Hillview, i rather pay for any of the FH dev than to buy Hillier. No brainer.

rattydrama
28-12-11, 10:58
800psf for 1 bedder maybe can buy...there is a price for everything.:D :D

peterng8
28-12-11, 11:10
If i have to live in Hillview, i rather pay for any of the FH dev than to buy Hillier. No brainer.


that is what i have been saying...new launch high price nevermind there will be people who will bite no matter the price launched..developer laughing to the bank even cost is low will sell high...resale dead meat ...:oso those bought high at new launch next time want to sell at resale will know the taste compared to those who bought low can play with the price when they sell...:p

phantom_opera
28-12-11, 11:18
not necessary true ... .. size/conditions matter ..also comparing apple with orange Hillier is small units vs old freehold big units

and nowadays MM is a sure way of making $$

TREVISTA LORONG 3 TOA PAYOH Condominium 1 710,000 463 Strata 1,534psf Nov-11

8@WOODLEIGH WOODLEIGH CLOSE Condominium 1 585,000 398 Strata 1,469 Sep-11

KOVAN GRANDEUR TAMPINES ROAD Apartment 1 610,000 398 Strata 1,532 Nov-11

peterng8
28-12-11, 11:23
not necessary true ... .. size/conditions matter ..also comparing apple with orange Hillier is small units vs old freehold big units

and nowadays MM is a sure way of making $$

TREVISTA LORONG 3 TOA PAYOH Condominium 1 710,000 463 Strata 1,534psf Nov-11


I would think that it is the quantum in which location that matters to some of them...:o not psf itself...

phantom_opera
28-12-11, 11:25
Hillier mainly bought by investors ... so is Bedok Residences ... and the upcoming Bukit Panjang Sim Lian's plot

MM or 1br the way to go for investment .... worried about rental later :beats-me-man: Can it be worse than 0.8% FD rate?

mygeemeel
28-12-11, 11:37
Unfortunately, the 40% downpayment is hefty. Anyone knows alternative method to pay just 20% downpayment? Assuming first unit bought with wife already, now thinking of 2nd unit if prices do correct.

Just to share... Businesses registered in overseas can also buy property in SGP but loan is 50% and affected by SSD. Only advantage is if want to run road, the foreign registered office can close down.

peterng8
28-12-11, 11:42
maybe that is the reason why some buyers are looking for quantum instead of PSF itself which indirectly inflate psf of smaller unit in some locations which are considered desirable? :o

peterng8
28-12-11, 11:48
Unfortunately, the 40% downpayment is hefty. Anyone knows alternative method to pay just 20% downpayment? Assuming first unit bought with wife already, now thinking of 2nd unit if prices do correct.

Just to share... Businesses registered in overseas can also buy property in SGP but loan is 50% and affected by SSD. Only advantage is if want to run road, the foreign registered office can close down.


not affected by ABSD(CM5), one hurdle down for potential buyer like yourself...but previous CM in effect if there is outstanding loan in property u own now?:o

stalingrad
28-12-11, 11:55
Hillier mainly bought by investors ... so is Bedok Residences ... and the upcoming Bukit Panjang Sim Lian's plot

MM or 1br the way to go for investment .... worried about rental later :beats-me-man: Can it be worse than 0.8% FD rate?

that is just a silly argument!!! when you rent out your unit, you don't incur zero cost. there is property tax, depreciation (especially for a unit on a 99 year leasehold), wear and tear, and the effort to keep your tenants happy. to make it worthwhile, your rental yield has to be at least 4%, or even 5%. In Singapore, rental yield is oftentimes close to 2%. It is way too low.

rattydrama
28-12-11, 11:58
We cannt go against the law.... maybe can risk wife run road with the apartment once u transfer the name to hers. :eek:



Unfortunately, the 40% downpayment is hefty. Anyone knows alternative method to pay just 20% downpayment? Assuming first unit bought with wife already, now thinking of 2nd unit if prices do correct.

Just to share... Businesses registered in overseas can also buy property in SGP but loan is 50% and affected by SSD. Only advantage is if want to run road, the foreign registered office can close down.

rattydrama
28-12-11, 12:00
that is just a silly argument!!! when you rent out your unit, you don't incur zero cost. there is property tax, depreciation (especially for a unit on a 99 year leasehold), wear and tear, and the effort to keep your tenants happy. to make it worthwhile, your rental yield has to be at least 4%, or even 5%. In Singapore, rental yield is oftentimes close to 2%. It is way too low.

with 5% there is almost nothing that we can buy now.....the market speaks for itself.... it is quite dead now. :2cents:

peterng8
28-12-11, 12:03
not necessary true ... .. size/conditions matter ..also comparing apple with orange Hillier is small units vs old freehold big units

and nowadays MM is a sure way of making $$

TREVISTA LORONG 3 TOA PAYOH Condominium 1 710,000 463 Strata 1,534psf Nov-11

8@WOODLEIGH WOODLEIGH CLOSE Condominium 1 585,000 398 Strata 1,469 Sep-11

KOVAN GRANDEUR TAMPINES ROAD Apartment 1 610,000 398 Strata 1,532 Nov-11


If the sellers are first owners ho say liao buy low sell high....:o

danntbt
28-12-11, 13:57
Actually browsing through the units available at Glendale, the layout not very good, many odd-shaped kitchens and balconies....did not like what I see in terms of the space and layout, or even views.....cheaper it may be, but to live long term is another thing....not sure about Hillier though, have not scrutinize.....

peterng8
28-12-11, 14:54
We cannt go against the law.... maybe can risk wife run road with the apartment once u transfer the name to hers. :eek:


another scenerio of joint names Maybe good is one of the parties is lao kok kok and the other one younger when taking huge loan and want it to be with long duration he he he:o

teddybear
28-12-11, 16:07
Really? Probably applies to the type of tenants your estates will get where they destroy a lot of things and then disappear? :(

Gross yield 3%, net yield probably 2.4%. Still better than 0.5% interest from bank! :p


that is just a silly argument!!! when you rent out your unit, you don't incur zero cost. there is property tax, depreciation (especially for a unit on a 99 year leasehold), wear and tear, and the effort to keep your tenants happy. to make it worthwhile, your rental yield has to be at least 4%, or even 5%. In Singapore, rental yield is oftentimes close to 2%. It is way too low.

stalingrad
29-12-11, 07:03
Really? Probably applies to the type of tenants your estates will get where they destroy a lot of things and then disappear? :(

Gross yield 3%, net yield probably 2.4%. Still better than 0.5% interest from bank! :p

in the USA, rental yield is usually about 6%. based on that yardstick, singapore properties are 60% overvalued.

rattydrama
29-12-11, 08:28
another scenerio of joint names Maybe good is one of the parties is lao kok kok and the other one younger when taking huge loan and want it to be with long duration he he he:o

I am thinking is it possible to buy under joint names (for loan purpose) and later transfer all property to the wife while the husband still paying installment?

And then the husband buy another property as a second property (as few property all transferred to wife liao). Will the husband kenna ABSD?

Any guru know is this possible?

rattydrama
29-12-11, 08:29
in the USA, rental yield is usually about 6%. based on that yardstick, singapore properties are 60% overvalued.

maybe as we are just a small dot.

peterng8
29-12-11, 08:34
I am thinking is it possible to buy under joint names (for loan purpose) and later transfer all property to the wife while the husband still paying installment?

And then the husband buy another property as a second property (as few property all transferred to wife liao). Will the husband kenna ABSD?

Any guru know is this possible?

I thought it will be less complicated if properties are already fully paid without loan than the ownership will be more easy to manage...:o

danntbt
29-12-11, 08:37
in the USA, rental yield is usually about 6%. based on that yardstick, singapore properties are 60% overvalued.
what is the quantum? a 6% yield of a low value property is not reflective of the gain that will be rewarding unless you have multiple properties. I am not arguing that a low yield for high valued property is any better, but in Spore, people look beyond rental alone, the potential capital gain is a consideration depending on the cyclical market.

e.g. if the value of property here is 100K, 6% yield is only 6K or 500 pm....
At 1 mil, 2%, the yield is 20K or abt 1.8K pm...but btw 2009 and this yr, you could add on around 10% pa on capital gain for those who buy and sell....its not as simplistic as just looking at rental yield alone.

devilplate
29-12-11, 08:40
in the USA, rental yield is usually about 6%. based on that yardstick, singapore properties are 60% overvalued.
wats the actual ROI ???

boleh land aso can get 5-7% yield

devilplate
29-12-11, 08:41
I am thinking is it possible to buy under joint names (for loan purpose) and later transfer all property to the wife while the husband still paying installment?

And then the husband buy another property as a second property (as few property all transferred to wife liao). Will the husband kenna ABSD?

Any guru know is this possible?
tx name aso incur stamp duties wat.....

at most save puny bit.....but look vy troublesome

rattydrama
29-12-11, 08:42
I thought it will be less complicated if properties are already fully paid without loan than the ownership will be more easy to manage...:o


Let say with loan of 40-50%? Anyone know is it possible?


I dont think it is a good idea to fully paid the property at the moment as we are in the low interest rate enviroment. If you do currency pairing can easily earn about 3-6% interest rate depending on your risk appetite.

stalingrad
29-12-11, 10:22
what is the quantum? a 6% yield of a low value property is not reflective of the gain that will be rewarding unless you have multiple properties. I am not arguing that a low yield for high valued property is any better, but in Spore, people look beyond rental alone, the potential capital gain is a consideration depending on the cyclical market.

e.g. if the value of property here is 100K, 6% yield is only 6K or 500 pm....
At 1 mil, 2%, the yield is 20K or abt 1.8K pm...but btw 2009 and this yr, you could add on around 10% pa on capital gain for those who buy and sell....its not as simplistic as just looking at rental yield alone.

if there is no rental demand, where would the capital gain come from? without rental demand, properties are just a ponzi scheme, waiting for a bigger fool to take your units off your hands.

stalingrad
29-12-11, 10:25
tx name aso incur stamp duties wat.....

at most save puny bit.....but look vy troublesome

10 year government bond yields are about the same in Singapore and USA, at about 3%. if rental yield in the US is at 6%, how can singapore's rental yield at 2-3% be sustainable?

Definitely not. I am vested in properties too. I am just voicing my honest opinion. Those buying today and have bought in the last three years are all going to regret.

teddybear
29-12-11, 12:07
Really? But you conveniently neglect to mention that mortgage rate in US usually fluctuates between 6% to 10% !!! :beats-me-man:
If we net off the mortgage rates, no wonder Singapore is a better place to invest in properties BECAUSE net rental return - mortgage rate is usually positive (vs negative in USA)!
US gross rental yield of 6% will become net rental yield of 3%! :doh:


in the USA, rental yield is usually about 6%. based on that yardstick, singapore properties are 60% overvalued.

teddybear
29-12-11, 12:11
Ai yo yo, why people always want to tell half-truth, part-truth, in order to mislead other people?
When we see US got gross rental yield of 6%, better ask what is their mortgage rate first and also their potential capital appreciation, and other taxes first! US has 1 of the highest taxes in the world! :doh:
Gross rental yield 6% in US will become net rental yield 3%!
And don't forget, at the super low interest environment, their mortgage rate is still >4%!!! :banghead:


10 year government bond yields are about the same in Singapore and USA, at about 3%. if rental yield in the US is at 6%, how can singapore's rental yield at 2-3% be sustainable?

Definitely not. I am vested in properties too. I am just voicing my honest opinion. Those buying today and have bought in the last three years are all going to regret.

devilplate
29-12-11, 12:32
10 year government bond yields are about the same in Singapore and USA, at about 3%. if rental yield in the US is at 6%, how can singapore's rental yield at 2-3% be sustainable?

Definitely not. I am vested in properties too. I am just voicing my honest opinion. Those buying today and have bought in the last three years are all going to regret.
Luckily i bot past few yrs....if not regret by now

stl67
29-12-11, 12:52
for the reasons quoted and esepcially we are not so familiar with US, UK rules, better don't invest overseas mkt. stay put in singapore. more or less stable.

danntbt
29-12-11, 13:32
if there is no rental demand, where would the capital gain come from? without rental demand, properties are just a ponzi scheme, waiting for a bigger fool to take your units off your hands.
......not sure what you are focussing on...one minute its rental yield, another its ponzi.....do not digress....based on your argument about rental Yield which is skewed, and uninformed....unless you can quote source and in more substantial sample.....even then its has been noted about distorted numbers in the figures on caveats lodged......you can get 6 or even 10%, but if the property value is so low....you need to have multiple properties, in which case the cost of managing your many small value units will obviously be higher also.....capital gain is seen on a medium term to long term view....especially in view of SSD in sg. ....unless we are so pessimistic that in the next 10 to 20 years its gonna be downhill all the way....which is what Basic basically trying to convince everyone...are a Basic Convert?........one cannot look at US and Singapore without considering the finite availability of land......beside other economic factors....

stalingrad
29-12-11, 14:15
Really? But you conveniently neglect to mention that mortgage rate in US usually fluctuates between 6% to 10% !!! :beats-me-man:
If we net off the mortgage rates, no wonder Singapore is a better place to invest in properties BECAUSE net rental return - mortgage rate is usually positive (vs negative in USA)!
US gross rental yield of 6% will become net rental yield of 3%! :doh:

Mas webiste shows, that 10 year bond rate is 1.66%. See https://secure.sgs.gov.sg/fdanet/SgsBenchmarkIssuePrices.aspx

CNBC shows that 10 bond rate in the US is 1.9%. See http://www.cnbc.com/id/15839203/site/14081545/

Long term mortgage rates are tied to government bond rates. thus, long term housing loan rates in the US and Singapore are about the same.

thus, there is no reason for Singaore's rental rate to be lower than that of the US, except for, of course, the housing bubble in Singapore.

when the bubble burst, you guys will laugh all the way to your grave.

Don't refute me by quoting the current housing loan rates, which are short term in nature and therefore have no meaning for long term investors.

devilplate
29-12-11, 14:33
Mas webiste shows, that 10 year bond rate is 1.66%. See https://secure.sgs.gov.sg/fdanet/SgsBenchmarkIssuePrices.aspx

CNBC shows that 10 bond rate in the US is 1.9%. See http://www.cnbc.com/id/15839203/site/14081545/

Long term mortgage rates are tied to government bond rates. thus, long term housing loan rates in the US and Singapore are about the same.

thus, there is no reason for Singaore's rental rate to be lower than that of the US, except for, of course, the housing bubble in Singapore.

when the bubble burst, you guys will laugh all the way to your grave.

Don't refute me by quoting the current housing loan rates, which are short term in nature and therefore have no meaning for long term investors.
u go tell those landed owners ur story .....ask them sell me at 50% discount now since their rental yield only 2%

stalingrad
29-12-11, 14:59
u go tell those landed owners ur story .....ask them sell me at 50% discount now since their rental yield only 2%

a friend of mine bought a bungalow for a cool $5 million recently. I really could not understand the purchase, other than to show off his wealth. it is dark and dank, and it even smells bad. I would not stay there even for one day.

danntbt
29-12-11, 15:03
a friend of mine bought a bungalow for a cool $5 million recently. I really could not understand the purchase, other than to show off his wealth. it is dark and dank, and it even smells bad. I would not stay there even for one day.
.....its too presumptuous to say that he is showing off......unless he can ill afford the purchase...

amk
29-12-11, 15:04
stalingrad, you and your rent story. :cool:

you basically believe the value of a house == (a fix multiple) of the rent.

Is this simple formula correct ?

stalingrad
29-12-11, 15:10
stalingrad, you and your rent story. :cool:

you basically believe the value of a house == (a fix multiple) of the rent.

Is this simple formula correct ?

no no. every house/condo is different.

but overall, the rental rate should reflect the cost of owning. if not, there is a bubble brewing.

devilplate
29-12-11, 15:44
no no. every house/condo is different.

but overall, the rental rate should reflect the cost of owning. if not, there is a bubble brewing.
all along landed and luxury condo rental yield 2-3% average

u wan high yield? mm lor.....

danntbt
29-12-11, 16:15
.....the landed has also been bubbling forever...........if according to the iron curtain guy......think the curtain is too heavy so views a bit obscured.

amk
29-12-11, 16:17
but overall, the rental rate should reflect the cost of owning. if not, there is a bubble brewing.

that's where you got it wrong. you are valuing it at cost. like a consumable item.

why do ppl pay xxx times over book value, or earning, for a company ?

pty is valued as an asset not on cost, value of which depends on many, many factors. supply and demand. locality. desirability. etc. rental yield is just one factor that affects the demand.

if you think US pty yield is so high, and the value is reasonable, why still no one buys US properties now ?

stalingrad
29-12-11, 16:17
.....its too presumptuous to say that he is showing off......unless he can ill afford the purchase...
even if one can afford something, it is a virtue not to show off like the chinese from PRC. don't be noveau riche and crass by driving Porche or asking your friends to celebrate with you when you move into your $5 million bugalow that smells less than heavenly.

stalingrad
29-12-11, 16:21
that's where you got it wrong. you are valuing it at cost. like a consumable item.

why do ppl pay xxx times over book value, or earning, for a company ?

pty is valued as an asset not on cost, value of which depends on many, many factors. supply and demand. locality. desirability. etc. rental yield is just one factor that affects the demand.

if you think US pty yield is so high, and the value is reasonable, why still no one buys US properties now ?
I am. I am buying one in Seattle. US$500,000. 2,000 sqf in living space with a 10,000 sqf yard. we are paying cash. we will sell in due course.

to answer your question, if the rental yield is low, the assets has no value. I am not talking about cost alone. rental is a measure of value. if rental is lower, then the cost is to high. or bubble is brewing.

amk
29-12-11, 16:27
rental is a measure of value.

alamak u never read my post. there are more factors affecting the "value". read the post above.

give u a simple example. one factor is supply and demand. 1000 ppl wants to live near this wonderful park. there is only 1 house for sale. what do you think the "value" of this house will be ?

phantom_opera
29-12-11, 16:41
in stock you have P/E ratio but very high PE like Apple also ppl buy like crazy, in properties you have price /annual rental income ratio ... very high could be bubble but it also depends on other factors like amk has said

Japan Price/annual income ratio reached 60 b4 bubble bursting ... SG is at most at 20+ only

Jim Rogers sold his NY apartment, stalingard bought Seattle, who will have a last laugh :p

rattydrama
29-12-11, 17:13
alamak u never read my post. there are more factors affecting the "value". read the post above.

give u a simple example. one factor is supply and demand. 1000 ppl wants to live near this wonderful park. there is only 1 house for sale. what do you think the "value" of this house will be ?

east cannot meet west as theyre brought up in different environment and thus have different perspective.

stalingrad
29-12-11, 17:19
alamak u never read my post. there are more factors affecting the "value". read the post above.

give u a simple example. one factor is supply and demand. 1000 ppl wants to live near this wonderful park. there is only 1 house for sale. what do you think the "value" of this house will be ?

but how come these 1000 people are unwilling to rent? Are they all stupid or something?

teddybear
29-12-11, 18:03
Oh no no! This is the first time I heard comments saying housing loan rates in US and Singapore are the same! :doh:
Tell us, what are the 30 year mortgage rates in US and SG now?
Tell us, what are the range of 30 year mortgage rates for the past 20 years in US and SG? Please check your facts first before somebody label you as xxxx! :p
Who cares about absolute rental yield? If every investors care, then US property prices should be shooting through the roof and not still dropping.... :banghead:


Mas webiste shows, that 10 year bond rate is 1.66%. See https://secure.sgs.gov.sg/fdanet/SgsBenchmarkIssuePrices.aspx

CNBC shows that 10 bond rate in the US is 1.9%. See http://www.cnbc.com/id/15839203/site/14081545/

Long term mortgage rates are tied to government bond rates. thus, long term housing loan rates in the US and Singapore are about the same.

thus, there is no reason for Singaore's rental rate to be lower than that of the US, except for, of course, the housing bubble in Singapore.

when the bubble burst, you guys will laugh all the way to your grave.

Don't refute me by quoting the current housing loan rates, which are short term in nature and therefore have no meaning for long term investors.

mastrix
29-12-11, 18:10
Mas webiste shows, that 10 year bond rate is 1.66%. See https://secure.sgs.gov.sg/fdanet/SgsBenchmarkIssuePrices.aspx

CNBC shows that 10 bond rate in the US is 1.9%. See http://www.cnbc.com/id/15839203/site/14081545/

Long term mortgage rates are tied to government bond rates. thus, long term housing loan rates in the US and Singapore are about the same.

thus, there is no reason for Singaore's rental rate to be lower than that of the US, except for, of course, the housing bubble in Singapore.

when the bubble burst, you guys will laugh all the way to your grave.

Don't refute me by quoting the current housing loan rates, which are short term in nature and therefore have no meaning for long term investors.
:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

stalingrad
29-12-11, 18:35
Oh no no! This is the first time I heard comments saying housing loan rates in US and Singapore are the same! :doh:
Tell us, what are the 30 year mortgage rates in US and SG now?
Tell us, what are the range of 30 year mortgage rates for the past 20 years in US and SG? Please check your facts first before somebody label you as xxxx! :p
Who cares about absolute rental yield? If every investors care, then US property prices should be shooting through the roof and not still dropping.... :banghead:

teddy, don't be stupid. the housing loan rates you are paying now are short term, and they can go up any time. if you need fixed rates for 10 or 30 years, the rates would be about the same as those in the US. get it?

yjcai
29-12-11, 19:06
Hmm lower manhantten 6% yield. Around 60 sqm.
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/North-America/United-States/Rental-Yields
SG Icon around 3% yield. Around 60 sqm.

teddybear
29-12-11, 19:41
if I am stupid enough to know that 30 year mortgage rates in US is between 4.x-10% for past 10 years while for SG is between 0.9-5.x% and you don't, that makes you idiotic moron? :doh:
And you asking people to buy US properties? You don't know that US mortgage rate is at lowest ever of 4.x% now & that can only be temporary & it will definitely go to norm of 8.x% when US Econ recovers? :doh:



teddy, don't be stupid. the housing loan rates you are paying now are short term, and they can go up any time. if you need fixed rates for 10 or 30 years, the rates would be about the same as those in the US. get it?



Oh no no! This is the first time I heard comments saying housing loan rates in US and Singapore are the same!
Tell us, what are the 30 year mortgage rates in US and SG now?
Tell us, what are the range of 30 year mortgage rates for the past 20 years in US and SG? Please check your facts first before somebody label you as xxxx!

stalingrad
29-12-11, 19:41
Hmm lower manhantten 6% yield. Around 60 sqm.
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/North-America/United-States/Rental-Yields
SG Icon around 3% yield. Around 60 sqm.

I think it is the government and the financial industry's fault that singaporeans think that housing loan rates are low and will stay low. if the banks offer 30 year fixed mortgage rates in Singapore, they would be at least 4% per year. then, singaporeans would wise up and see that rental yield of 3% or even 2% are totally unacceptable.

then the property craze will be over. and no one will ever pay 1000 psf at punggol, or is it pundog.

stalingrad
29-12-11, 19:42
if I am stupid enough to know that 30 year mortgage rates in US is between 4.x-10% for past 10 years while for SG is between 0.9-5.x% and you don't, that makes you idiotic moron? :doh:
And you asking people to buy US properties? You don't know that US mortgage rate is at lowest ever of 4.x% now & that can only be temporary & it will definitely go to norm of 8.x% when US Econ recovers? :doh:
no they will not go up. they are fixed for 30 years. that is why we call it fixed rate. get it?

teddybear
29-12-11, 19:48
Who wants such long fixed rate at super high rates? :banghead:
Few in Singapore will want to lock to such stupid high rates for 30 years except the idiotic morons. Who know, rates may fall further for such fixed rates if they have them in SG? :scared-1:
If SG have such fixed rates, rental will have no choice but to jack up to >6% to compensate for the costs! SG landlords will understand that they are stupid to rental at such low yields! :tongue3:


no they will not go up. they are fixed for 30 years. that is why we call it fixed rate. get it?

stalingrad
29-12-11, 19:55
Who wants such long fixed rate at super high rates? :banghead:
Few in Singapore will want to lock to such stupid high rates for 30 years except the idiotic morons. Who know, rates may fall further for such fixed rates if they have them in SG? :scared-1:
If SG have such fixed rates, rental will have no choice but to jack up to >6% to compensate for the costs! SG landlords will understand that they are stupid to rental at such low yields! :tongue3:
but if you borrow at short term rates, you will be burnt badly if rates suddenly shoot up. believe me short rates can shoot up very quickly. just look at the blowout of the market in 1979 when paul volcker was appointed the chair of the feds.

what will cause rates to shoot up. a crisis. a crisis can happen in any country. I am not being fear mongering. in 30 years, US has had at least 5 crises. this can happen in any country.

teddybear
29-12-11, 20:02
Ha ha ha. Buyers so stupid don't know what are historical range of rates meh? SG max 5.x% so far only lah, but by then rental yield + capital appreciation also up to compensate the higher rate. :p
Crisis? Nowsadays best solution by gov is to flood market with cash, so interest rate sure drop like stone to <1%! You think we don't know hah? :doh:


but if you borrow at short term rates, you will be burnt badly if rates suddenly shoot up. believe me short rates can shoot up very quickly. just look at the blowout of the market in 1979 when paul volcker was appointed the chair of the feds.

what will cause rates to shoot up. a crisis. a crisis can happen in any country. I am not being fear mongering. in 30 years, US has had at least 5 crises. this can happen in any country.

devilplate
29-12-11, 20:18
My main worry for overseas ppty is the collection of rent......will tenants play punk? Wats the tenancy laws over there?

I noe some european countries, landlords vy hard to chase out tenants even if they dun pay....

yjcai
29-12-11, 20:23
I think it is the government and the financial industry's fault that singaporeans think that housing loan rates are low and will stay low. if the banks offer 30 year fixed mortgage rates in Singapore, they would be at least 4% per year. then, singaporeans would wise up and see that rental yield of 3% or even 2% are totally unacceptable.

then the property craze will be over. and no one will ever pay 1000 psf at punggol, or is it pundog.

But don't forget NYC class 1 tax 0.18 of 6% works out to get rental yield after tax of 6 - 1.x% = 4.xx%. SG rental yield of 10% property tax works out to be 2.7%.. Yes I agree on your side that the rental yield must be greater than the interest on loans.

On another side, gross rental yields of HDB are actually pretty high nowadays. Rental demand is there, can be 4-5% easily for 4 roomer. So is fully paid HDB too cheap and condos too bubbly. My stance is still semi bear, observing PR and FT influx and interest rates till 2015.

http://www.joneslanglasallesites.com/appd/featured-article/new-stock-arriving-in-the-singapore-residential-market

amk
29-12-11, 21:08
but how come these 1000 people are unwilling to rent? Are they all stupid or something?

They are not stupid. We'd been through this already : our value set is different from ppl like you. Many ang mos live for the day only. Whereas most Asians have a value system that believes assets should be accumulated and passed to the next generation. In the US renting for life is a perfectly acceptable idea. In Asian context, home ownership is a matter of course. That is why ppl like you cannot escape the whole idea of "value of house is the rent". For you living in a pty is a cost, you are trying the best way to minimize the cost.

I dun call you idiot or anything. But you should try to appreciate why Asians are generally savers not spenders, and we value home ownership, unlike most of the Americans. This is why pty is a very location specific business.

mastrix
29-12-11, 21:32
They are not stupid. We'd been through this already : our value set is different from ppl like you. Many ang mos live for the day only. Whereas most Asians have a value system that believes assets should be accumulated and passed to the next generation. In the US renting for life is a perfectly acceptable idea. In Asian context, home ownership is a matter of course. That is why ppl like you cannot escape the whole idea of "value of house is the rent". For you living in a pty is a cost, you are trying the best way to minimize the cost.

I dun call you idiot or anything. But you should try to appreciate why Asians are generally savers not spenders, and we value home ownership, unlike most of the Americans. This is why pty is a very location specific business.
Well said. So what my pty $ drop now, I still own the pty, and then when the $ go up again, I can consider sell or not. For the time being, just take it as a saving loh. Am I stupid? :rolleyes:

danntbt
29-12-11, 21:49
but if you borrow at short term rates, you will be burnt badly if rates suddenly shoot up. believe me short rates can shoot up very quickly. just look at the blowout of the market in 1979 when paul volcker was appointed the chair of the feds.

what will cause rates to shoot up. a crisis. a crisis can happen in any country. I am not being fear mongering. in 30 years, US has had at least 5 crises. this can happen in any country.
.....so sit on your USD$500K lot why bother to buy if things do not look good....u can be cash king when the time comes...

whoh757
30-12-11, 12:20
odd shape living and bed rooms too? hmmm... not too good? anyone know which block/unit has good squarish shapes ones?!


Actually browsing through the units available at Glendale, the layout not very good, many odd-shaped kitchens and balconies....did not like what I see in terms of the space and layout, or even views.....cheaper it may be, but to live long term is another thing....not sure about Hillier though, have not scrutinize.....

yjcai
30-12-11, 23:05
How much ROI from carabelle already?

lyn
06-01-12, 20:16
Anyone know if there is any internet site that does not require subscription and that show caveat together with the unit number

polarinda
20-02-12, 11:18
a friend of mine bought a bungalow for a cool $5 million recently. I really could not understand the purchase, other than to show off his wealth. it is dark and dank, and it even smells bad. I would not stay there even for one day.

you have friends??

polarinda
20-02-12, 11:21
10 year government bond yields are about the same in Singapore and USA, at about 3%. if rental yield in the US is at 6%, how can singapore's rental yield at 2-3% be sustainable?

Definitely not. I am vested in properties too. I am just voicing my honest opinion. Those buying today and have bought in the last three years are all going to regret.

Oh yea?
I bought in 2009/10/11. Never regretted a bit.

polarinda
20-02-12, 11:23
Mas webiste shows, that 10 year bond rate is 1.66%. See https://secure.sgs.gov.sg/fdanet/SgsBenchmarkIssuePrices.aspx

CNBC shows that 10 bond rate in the US is 1.9%. See http://www.cnbc.com/id/15839203/site/14081545/

Long term mortgage rates are tied to government bond rates. thus, long term housing loan rates in the US and Singapore are about the same.

thus, there is no reason for Singaore's rental rate to be lower than that of the US, except for, of course, the housing bubble in Singapore.

when the bubble burst, you guys will laugh all the way to your grave.

Don't refute me by quoting the current housing loan rates, which are short term in nature and therefore have no meaning for long term investors.

On that note, u should pack your bags now and F outta here back to your homeland. Why waste time on the net?

polarinda
20-02-12, 11:24
a friend of mine bought a bungalow for a cool $5 million recently. I really could not understand the purchase, other than to show off his wealth. it is dark and dank, and it even smells bad. I would not stay there even for one day.

if u can afford, u'll stay, trust me.

polarinda
20-02-12, 11:27
I am. I am buying one in Seattle. US$500,000. 2,000 sqf in living space with a 10,000 sqf yard. we are paying cash. we will sell in due course.

to answer your question, if the rental yield is low, the assets has no value. I am not talking about cost alone. rental is a measure of value. if rental is lower, then the cost is to high. or bubble is brewing.

I got a 5 ha ranch in Texas. Fully paid.

Scg8866t
06-09-22, 22:47
http://scg8866tstockinvesting.blogspot.com/2022/09/glendale-august-update.html#.YxddRnZBzMY

Glendale Park August 2022 Update