View Full Version : HDB not pegging new flat prices to resale??
"Mr Khaw said as long as construction costs do not rise dramatically, the BTO prices will stabilise.
He said: I am tackling the issue of affordability head on... Since May, we have stabilised the prices of these BTO flats. We have moderated price changes such that after adjusting for differences in location, amenities and other physical attributes, the May, July and September BTO prices were roughly comparable to the prices of similar units in the April BTO launch. The upcoming BTO launch next month will repeat this pattern.
"Newlyweds eyeing new HDB flats do not need to worry that BTO price will run ahead of their income. As long as construction costs do not rise dramatically, the BTO prices will stabilise. In this way, new HDB flats will always be affordable to the newlywed first-timers, provided that their expectation is realistic.""
FRom CNA.
That is a big change in policy
devilplate
19-10-11, 19:40
"Mr Khaw said as long as construction costs do not rise dramatically, the BTO prices will stabilise.
He said: I am tackling the issue of affordability head on... Since May, we have stabilised the prices of these BTO flats. We have moderated price changes such that after adjusting for differences in location, amenities and other physical attributes, the May, July and September BTO prices were roughly comparable to the prices of similar units in the April BTO launch. The upcoming BTO launch next month will repeat this pattern.
"Newlyweds eyeing new HDB flats do not need to worry that BTO price will run ahead of their income. As long as construction costs do not rise dramatically, the BTO prices will stabilise. In this way, new HDB flats will always be affordable to the newlywed first-timers, provided that their expectation is realistic.""
FRom CNA.
That is a big change in policy
Resale px still rising but bto px will remains flat....
More incentive to get married
Haha this is what I m talking abt! KBW rocks. Steady building ensures steady prices. Now just pray he don't over build.
devilplate
19-10-11, 20:02
Haha this is what I m talking abt! KBW rocks. Steady building ensures steady prices. Now just pray he don't over build.
As long he still sticks to 75% rule....
But i am more curious abt the % of 2nd timers getting bto flat.....shd be just 5% rite? Unlike dbss/ec whereby 2nd timers r allowed to buy after a certain time frame
My understanding is tat hdb bto strictly 95% 1st timer...and leftover units shall go to sales of balance flat program which conduct every qtrly rite.....
Allthepies
19-10-11, 20:10
Haha this is what I m talking abt! KBW rocks. Steady building ensures steady prices. Now just pray he don't over build.
hope our minster wont get too engrossed in pleasing this group of youug families, sometimes very choosy, and dig too much into our reserves and taxes.can tell they r choosy becos some bto little demand, some btos a lot of demand
hope our minster wont get too engrossed in pleasing this group of youug families, sometimes very choosy, and dig too much into our reserves and taxes.can tell they r choosy becos some bto little demand, some btos a lot of demandHave they admitted on digging into countries' reserve for building BTO flats? Even with the last big recession when govt digged into our country's reserves, they say like this money cannot suka suka touch. Or what reserve are u referring to?
Haha this is what I m talking abt! KBW rocks. Steady building ensures steady prices. Now just pray he don't over build.KBW is using BTO prices to control resale which is still possible given time. Just hope that he'll keep to that promise of stabalizing BTO prices. Even if construction cost goes up a bit, govt should still try to keep selling prices low. That was one of the noble objective of HDB when it was first formed in the 60s. :spliff:
The word "stabalise" is as vague as the words "affordable" and "realistic". Then throw in "if" and "should" : he is saying something but nothing at all.
I think this is a real political promise. Let share :
1. the selling price of properties, make up mainly the land cost, construction cost, overhead like interest and profit margin. In general, construction cost takes about 30% of total. So, he is trying to say the land cost and overhead cost will not go up? If not wrong, not too long ago I read, the infra cost has gone up like MRT line and road, as such, the corresponding land cost need to go up.
2. all the while, the selling price of HDB new flats is a mark down from the resale price or aka market price. The mark down is known subsidy. It has long been a political issue on HDB for not revealing the formula in arriving the selling price of the new flats.
3. How is one going to know the components of construction cost. With the ban in sand, the cost has gone up.
To add on, even the supply is increased this year, the stock will only reach the open market in 8 years time, 3 years of construction and 5 years of MOP. If the population is showing a constant growth at the current rate, then the shortage of housing stock remains. ie resale price will go up. So is the Sg Govt wants more revenue in term of higher selling prices / stamp duty or still maintain the price...???
thomastansb
19-10-11, 21:15
Did you see the news about Jurong and Sengkang? Even 2nd timers not interested to apply. HDB is going to sink soon..
As long he still sticks to 75% rule....
But i am more curious abt the % of 2nd timers getting bto flat.....shd be just 5% rite? Unlike dbss/ec whereby 2nd timers r allowed to buy after a certain time frame
My understanding is tat hdb bto strictly 95% 1st timer...and leftover units shall go to sales of balance flat program which conduct every qtrly rite.....
As long he still sticks to 75% rule....
But i am more curious abt the % of 2nd timers getting bto flat.....shd be just 5% rite? Unlike dbss/ec whereby 2nd timers r allowed to buy after a certain time frame
My understanding is tat hdb bto strictly 95% 1st timer...and leftover units shall go to sales of balance flat program which conduct every qtrly rite.....
Currently only five per cent of BTO flats are kept for second-timers, even though they make up 40 per cent of BTO applicants.
Mr Khaw said he hopes to raise the percentage allocation for second-timers in a year's time to improve their chances of getting a flat. In turn, this will further reduce the demand in the HDB resale market.
By reducing the demand on the HDB resale market, resale prices should begin to moderate, benefiting other home buyers, like the singles.
As for calls by some industry players to remove the recent cooling measures for the property market, Mr Khaw said it is not quite time yet. That is because of the global economic uncertainties. He said the government will continue to monitor the market and make additional tweaks when necessary. CNA/ck/ac
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Hope he get those numbers right, as i know many 2nd timers just tikam tikam & not real demand to upgrade to another BTO. Also some bought resale flats & still qualify as 1st timer BTO. They just wana cash out & shift to a brand new flat.
phantom_opera
19-10-11, 21:26
all empty talk only lah, what he is saying is that he will flood the market with BTOs with a bit more subsidy in lousy locations far from MRT and hope the 1st timers will bite ... unfortunately it failed, very obvious first timers are choosy and only interested in mature estate so back to square one
nowadays 1st timers not just choosy also smart, they know many BTOs going to go in one shot so there is no hurry but to wait for prime BTO or mature estate ballot, since Khaw promises to keep the price stable so just wait loh
phantom_opera
19-10-11, 21:49
Did you see the news about Jurong and Sengkang? Even 2nd timers not interested to apply. HDB is going to sink soon..
the upcoming Nov BTO all lousy locations, very far from mrt/amenities for Hougang, Punggol, Yishun ... so expect no taker too even slightly more subsidy
Khaw is doing the wrong thing by promising stable BTO prices yet only release lousy located BTOs, very wrong ...
devilplate
19-10-11, 21:56
the upcoming Nov BTO all lousy locations, very far from mrt/amenities for Hougang, Punggol, Yishun ... so expect no taker too even slightly more subsidy
Khaw is doing the wrong thing by promising stable BTO prices yet only release lousy located BTOs, very wrong ...
I dun see any problem leh
Where got cheap and gd one
During GE, ppl complain hdb px high only wat....So poor take up rate can prove ppl r choosy rite! Very smart move mah!:D :D :D
And if all want gd location den who stay in suburbs? Central all super cramp meh? No money buy ulu ppty first lor...work harder den buy ccr lor....fair n sq rite...expect spoonfeeding meh?:rolleyes:
phantom_opera
19-10-11, 22:04
I suggest MND do the following:
1. For lousy location, build dual key, allow 1r to be rented out easily, this is to attract ppl to buy lousy location yet can make $ as well as depress the rental yield of resale flat nearby
2. For good location e.g. near MRT, build smaller flat with less rooms e.g. 2 bedrooms with one maid room 800sqft but price to market psf, this one totally cannot rent out even 1r within MOP even with valid reason like going overseas
The above will quickly remove all 1st timers in the market and stabilize resale
thomastansb
19-10-11, 22:12
I fully agree with you.
Nowadays, people want the sky. Jia lat. I hope we don't become Europe. Europe took 10 years to fail. I think Singapore will take 2 years because we got no resources.
I dun see any problem leh
Where got cheap and gd one
During GE, ppl complain hdb px high only wat....So poor take up rate can prove ppl r choosy rite! Very smart move mah!:D :D :D
And if all want gd location den who stay in suburbs? Central all super cramp meh? No money buy ulu ppty first lor...work harder den buy ccr lor....fair n sq rite...expect spoonfeeding meh?:rolleyes:
Did you see the news about Jurong and Sengkang? Even 2nd timers not interested to apply. HDB is going to sink soon..
Both BTO are studio apartment projects aka old folks home units thus may not be representative enough to signal problems coming..:2cents:
"Mr Khaw said as long as construction costs do not rise dramatically, the BTO prices will stabilise.
He said: I am tackling the issue of affordability head on... Since May, we have stabilised the prices of these BTO flats. We have moderated price changes such that after adjusting for differences in location, amenities and other physical attributes, the May, July and September BTO prices were roughly comparable to the prices of similar units in the April BTO launch. The upcoming BTO launch next month will repeat this pattern.
"Newlyweds eyeing new HDB flats do not need to worry that BTO price will run ahead of their income. As long as construction costs do not rise dramatically, the BTO prices will stabilise. In this way, new HDB flats will always be affordable to the newlywed first-timers, provided that their expectation is realistic.""
FRom CNA.
That is a big change in policy
where got change in policy??
he said "we have stabilised the prices of BTO flats" and "prices will stabilise". the word 'stabilise' does not say much, does it?
and then he says "new hdb flats will always be affordable...". Again, what is the meaning of 'affordable'? the mah bow tan kind based on at least 30 yr loan tenure? or the kind based on 15 or 20yr loan tenure? :D
KBW is using BTO prices to control resale which is still possible given time. Just hope that he'll keep to that promise of stabalizing BTO prices. Even if construction cost goes up a bit, govt should still try to keep selling prices low. That was one of the noble objective of HDB when it was first formed in the 60s. :spliff:
i do not think he is tackling resale at all. The only thing he did was to hide COV data.
new flat prices are determined by land costs whose valuation is in turn determined by resale market. He is merely injecting supply to hope to moderate new flat prices thats all. the basis of pricing mechanism is still the same.
if he says any rise in construction costs he will absorb, then i say is laudable. But as it is, he warns that construction costs may rise. so wat does that tell us? lol
Till this day he and his predecessor refuses to divulge the cost breakdown of hdb, so how can anyone be sure any increase in BTO pricing is really due to rise in construction costs or land costs or watever?
I dun see any problem leh
Where got cheap and gd one
During GE, ppl complain hdb px high only wat....So poor take up rate can prove ppl r choosy rite! Very smart move mah!:D :D :D
And if all want gd location den who stay in suburbs? Central all super cramp meh? No money buy ulu ppty first lor...work harder den buy ccr lor....fair n sq rite...expect spoonfeeding meh?:rolleyes:
the underlying reason for choosiness is still price.
if buyers feel they are parting with a large sum, then it is normal for buyers to be more picky. it just means new flats at non-mature areas are still not priced competitively enough and therefore not attractive.
Currently only five per cent of BTO flats are kept for second-timers, even though they make up 40 per cent of BTO applicants.
Mr Khaw said he hopes to raise the percentage allocation for second-timers in a year's time to improve their chances of getting a flat. In turn, this will further reduce the demand in the HDB resale market.
By reducing the demand on the HDB resale market, resale prices should begin to moderate, benefiting other home buyers, like the singles.
As for calls by some industry players to remove the recent cooling measures for the property market, Mr Khaw said it is not quite time yet. That is because of the global economic uncertainties. He said the government will continue to monitor the market and make additional tweaks when necessary. CNA/ck/ac
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Hope he get those numbers right, as i know many 2nd timers just tikam tikam & not real demand to upgrade to another BTO. Also some bought resale flats & still qualify as 1st timer BTO. They just wana cash out & shift to a brand new flat.He'll remove CM only when his BTO supply > demand. Then no choice have to save himself so take away the CM on restriction on dual ownership.
i do not think he is tackling resale at all. The only thing he did was to hide COV data.
new flat prices are determined by land costs whose valuation is in turn determined by resale market. He is merely injecting supply to hope to moderate new flat prices thats all. the basis of pricing mechanism is still the same.
if he says any rise in construction costs he will absorb, then i say is laudable. But as it is, he warns that construction costs may rise. so wat does that tell us? lol
Till this day he and his predecessor refuses to divulge the cost breakdown of hdb, so how can anyone be sure any increase in BTO pricing is really due to rise in construction costs or land costs or watever?This is their last line of defence. In case they need to do something, they can still tweak those figures in their favor with all the ambiguity. The less assuming public will just move along! Anyway, the prices of BTO have indeed been kept low. If he keeps saying HDB must be affordable to the people, then why not include resale too? I suspect he's also trying very hard to contain the resale market by whatever means possible which possibly includes the BTO pricing too. :D
They can try doing what the developers do, shrink unit sizes to increase affordability?
devilplate
20-10-11, 09:42
the underlying reason for choosiness is still price.
if buyers feel they are parting with a large sum, then it is normal for buyers to be more picky. it just means new flats at non-mature areas are still not priced competitively enough and therefore not attractive.
i tink the other way round.....those bto in mature estate priced too close to non matured ones:p
ST reported this couple at the age of 26 with combined income just under 10k. Is BTO really unaffordable or nowadays young couples being choosy?:confused:
devilplate
20-10-11, 10:24
ST reported this couple at the age of 26 with combined income just under 10k. Is BTO really unaffordable or nowadays young couples being choosy?:confused:
majority choosy but some really cant afford...let say both work a factory worker...i tink combine income 2k+.....abit xiong....
majority choosy but some really cant afford...let say both work a factory worker...i tink combine income 2k+.....abit xiong....
2k+ can go for 3room flat but if they want a 4 or 5 room then it's choosy liao.haha.... New ruling allows <5k to apply for 3room le.
phantom_opera
20-10-11, 10:44
I can tell you why ppl want mature estate for first timer, because you can borrow more from HDB at 2.6%, they should really limit the quantum lah
This is the best kept secret that nobody dares to publish in ST .... nowadays all smart first timers, unlike last time all financially naive
2k+ can go for 3room flat but if they want a 4 or 5 room then it's choosy liao.haha.... New ruling allows <5k to apply for 3room le.Alternatively, the couple can work for 5 years first and save up a combined cpf ordinary account of about $60k, each saving $500/mth. Then using a little cash on hand, they may well afford a 4 room flat for less than $300k. :cheers1: Seriously, HDB is not beyond the reach of a typical Singaporean. The same unfortunately cannot be said of car ownership today. :doh:
devilplate
20-10-11, 10:54
Alternatively, the couple can work for 5 years first and save up a combined cpf ordinary account of about $60k, each saving $500/mth. Then using a little cash on hand, they may well afford a 4 room flat for less than $300k. :cheers1: Seriously, HDB is not beyond the reach of a typical Singaporean. The same unfortunately cannot be said of car ownership today. :doh:
cat A cost 5xk......few yrs back a swift for eg cost about 50k....hehehehe.....expect more budget cars to close shop? madza first one....next?
rattydrama
20-10-11, 10:54
2k+ can go for 3room flat but if they want a 4 or 5 room then it's choosy liao.haha.... New ruling allows <5k to apply for 3room le.
Interestingly, wats the max income ceiling for buying brand new 3-room flat now?
devilplate
20-10-11, 10:56
Interestingly, wats the max income ceiling for buying brand new 3-room flat now?
5k...
10k for matured/premium 3rm...
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyingNewFlatEligibilitytobuynewHDBflat?OpenDocument#IncomeCeiling
rattydrama
20-10-11, 11:08
[quote=devilplate]deleted.............................
ST reported this couple at the age of 26 with combined income just under 10k. Is BTO really unaffordable or nowadays young couples being choosy?:confused:
it is ST... lol
of course not all young couples are in such income bracket.
it is ST... lol
of course not all young couples are in such income bracket.
These kids are the minority rather than the norm.
rattydrama
20-10-11, 16:07
5k...
10k for matured/premium 3rm...
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyingNewFlatEligibilitytobuynewHDBflat?OpenDocument#IncomeCeiling
Why HDB allowed 3rm bracket to be 10kmax @ matured estate? I think 5k should suffice else deprive the low income earners.
Why HDB allowed 3rm bracket to be 10kmax @ matured estate? I think 5k should suffice else deprive the low income earners.$10k is for BTO.
rattydrama
20-10-11, 20:47
He'll remove CM only when his BTO supply > demand. Then no choice have to save himself so take away the CM on restriction on dual ownership.
He only needs to remove policy to allow PC owners to buy HDB re-sale, many PC condo owners will chiong and buy one for self stay. :D
He only needs to remove policy to allow PC owners to buy HDB re-sale, many PC condo owners will chiong and buy one for self stay. :DPolicy and measures are just like fruits and apples... sama sama lah! :o The current measure disallow PC owners to buy hdb wat... so allowing it through policy change = removing current CM lor! :spliff2:
rattydrama
20-10-11, 22:05
$10k is for BTO. but its still a 3r flat so should limit those higher income buyer. make then buy 4r flat instead.
rattydrama
20-10-11, 22:08
Policy and measures are just like fruits and apples... sama sama lah! :o The current measure disallow PC owners to buy hdb wat... so allowing it through policy change = removing current CM lor! :spliff2:
my post is in context of oversupply hdb flats with no buyers....hdb layout is bigger and cheaper to maintain.
Don't understand! Anyway whatever policy change or measure deduction or addition, hopefully it's not too negative an impact on PC owners! :o
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