View Full Version : Need legal help.
Hi.
I want to sell my house but tenants wont move. They demanded a 10 month compensation. What are my legal options? I am really stressed over this as I need cash and selling is my only choice.
Anyone here know good lawyers who can help me? Or where is the governing body where I could get legal help?
Hi.
I want to sell my house but tenants wont move. They demanded a 10 month compensation. What are my legal options? I am really stressed over this as I need cash and selling is my only choice.
Anyone here know good lawyers who can help me? Or where is the governing body where I could get legal help?
You can sell the house with tenancy (i.e. sell ownership of the house, but the tenants get to stay on and pay rental to the new owner).
You can sell the house with tenancy (i.e. sell ownership of the house, but the tenants get to stay on and pay rental to the new owner).
If I sell without tenacy what can happen?
devilplate
25-07-11, 09:55
If I sell without tenacy what can happen?
Den pay them 10mths lor....I assume tenancy left 10mths?
Some tenants willing to settle for just 2mths compensation....but well urs....
Most importantly, what are the termination clauses in the signed contract?
- Notice period
- Notice method (in writing?)
- Penalties and compensation
- Return of deposit
devilplate
25-07-11, 10:18
Most importantly, what are the termination clauses in the signed contract?
- Notice period
- Notice method (in writing?)
- Penalties and compensation
- Return of deposit
Nvr state penalties for early termination one lor....
Not sure can add in anot? But i wun bother...jus me
Eldenfirefly
25-07-11, 10:30
Easiest just sell it with tenancy. Unless the buyer wants to stay, otherwise, there will bee interest there also. Some buyers are investors, so they are happier that it comes with tenancy because then they don't need to hunt for tenant.
It might make the price just a bit lower, but it solves your problem, you dun need to worry about the tenants not moving out then.
Nvr state penalties for early termination one lor....
Not sure can add in anot? But i wun bother...jus me
All agreements are negotiable before signing, and also after signing. The termination clause is a very important part of long-term contracts that is often overlooked because people always think "it wouldn't happen".
Everyone knows how to look at the upfront and maintenance price / cost but the termination and any breach could also cost money. They all add to the total cost of contracting.
If in the contract, it is stated that the party who initiates early the
termination, even with notice needs to pay compensate the other party for the entire remaining duration (I have heard that this is common practice), the only way out would be to try the soft approach to negotiate with the tenant yourself (e.g. help them find another place, pay their home removal bill and pay the agent commission) since the tenant has legal rights to demand 10 months' payment in lieu.
But if nothing of that sort is stated in the contract, then serve them written notice by registered mail and evict them if they refuse to move.
All agreements are negotiable before signing, and also after signing. The termination clause is a very important part of long-term contracts that is often overlooked because people always think "it wouldn't happen".
Everyone knows how to look at the upfront and maintenance price / cost but the termination and any breach could also cost money. They all add to the total cost of contracting.
If in the contract, it is stated that the party who initiates early the
termination, even with notice needs to pay compensate the other party for the entire remaining duration (I have heard that this is common practice), the only way out would be to try the soft approach to negotiate with the tenant yourself (e.g. help them find another place, pay their home removal bill and pay the agent commission) since the tenant has legal rights to demand 10 months' payment in lieu.
But if nothing of that sort is stated in the contract, then serve them written notice by registered mail and evict them if they refuse to move.
The contract has nothing said about termination. That time the agent said it's normal and it's up to interpretation. So, nothing mentioned. Only said verbally that if any party end early, then may have to pay remaining. So, if nothing said about this, can just evict them according to what you said? What is the industry guideline? Got any case can refer to?
The contract has nothing said about termination. That time the agent said it's normal and it's up to interpretation. So, nothing mentioned. Only said verbally that if any party end early, then may have to pay remaining. So, if nothing said about this, can just evict them according to what you said? What is the industry guideline? Got any case can refer to?A verbal agreement is binding in some countries. In any case, I suspect your hesitation on not selling with tenancy is because you might have a buyer who wants vacant unit? Well, I still think that selling with tenancy is the best option for you. Otherwise you may incur unnecessary cost from legal fees to tenant compensation, etc. You don't really have to sell lower just because it comes with tenancy because there are buyers out there who wants to buy with tenancy. Also, since its probably 10 months left, you take about 1 month to wait for the right offer to come in and another 3 months before handing over the unit so all in all, the new buyer probably only need to wait about 6 months for a vacant unit instead of 10 months. Not that big an issue lah! :o Hope you get out of your misery soon!
A verbal agreement is binding in some countries. In any case, I suspect your hesitation on not selling with tenancy is because you might have a buyer who wants vacant unit? Well, I still think that selling with tenancy is the best option for you. Otherwise you may incur unnecessary cost from legal fees to tenant compensation, etc. You don't really have to sell lower just because it comes with tenancy because there are buyers out there who wants to buy with tenancy. Also, since its probably 10 months left, you take about 1 month to wait for the right offer to come in and another 3 months before handing over the unit so all in all, the new buyer probably only need to wait about 6 months for a vacant unit instead of 10 months. Not that big an issue lah! :o Hope you get out of your misery soon! Marc 2050, I agree with YSYAP advice. Selling with tenancy is the cleanest option, but if your monthly rental that you enter into is low and cannot cover monthly mortgage repayment to Bank by your potential buyer, then potential investor/buyer may not want, so you may need to sell at a price, factoring this, in short a bit of discount...
The contract has nothing said about termination. That time the agent said it's normal and it's up to interpretation. So, nothing mentioned. Only said verbally that if any party end early, then may have to pay remaining. So, if nothing said about this, can just evict them according to what you said? What is the industry guideline? Got any case can refer to?
Since there's nothing stated in the contract, then you'll just have to give "reasonable" notice. I think 1-2 months is reasonable notice.
Although verbal agreements are binding, you don't want to spend time disputing who said what. So verbal plus written notice using registered mail will do. Do specify when you will be returning the deposit and what conditions must be satisfied, and also specify when conditions that would result in forfeiture of the deposit. E.g. if they fail to vacate the premises by XX date, you will give them 7 days' notice to proceed to evict them and the deposit will be forfeited. Just download some templates from the internet.
Try not to make them angry otherwise they might damage your place and it will be too much trouble to get compensation.
Since there's nothing stated in the contract, then you'll just have to give "reasonable" notice. I think 1-2 months is reasonable notice.
Although verbal agreements are binding, you don't want to spend time disputing who said what. So verbal plus written notice using registered mail will do. Do specify when you will be returning the deposit and what conditions must be satisfied, and also specify when conditions that would result in forfeiture of the deposit. E.g. if they fail to vacate the premises by XX date, you will give them 7 days' notice to proceed to evict them and the deposit will be forfeited. Just download some templates from the internet.
Try not to make them angry otherwise they might damage your place and it will be too much trouble to get compensation.Yes some tenants can be really nasty... don't even step into that! Avoid it at all cost! :p
Since there's nothing stated in the contract, then you'll just have to give "reasonable" notice. I think 1-2 months is reasonable notice.
Although verbal agreements are binding, you don't want to spend time disputing who said what. So verbal plus written notice using registered mail will do. Do specify when you will be returning the deposit and what conditions must be satisfied, and also specify when conditions that would result in forfeiture of the deposit. E.g. if they fail to vacate the premises by XX date, you will give them 7 days' notice to proceed to evict them and the deposit will be forfeited. Just download some templates from the internet.
Try not to make them angry otherwise they might damage your place and it will be too much trouble to get compensation.
What if the tenants also play hardball to me? They are the ones living there and they dont seem to be the nicest people to deal with. In fact, they dont want to discuss anything except to say it is their rights to stay there and if I dont give them 10 months compensation, they will never move. And we do have offers but only for vacant. Not one interested with tenants as it is a house and not many investors for house.
We are also worried they will damage the house before they move. Then we cannot even sell it anymore. So, we're like being held ransom to whatever sum they like.
devilplate
25-07-11, 20:42
Look into equity loan first to tide over? Den sell when lease left 3-4 mths
If you die die must sell and tenants die die won't move unless you compensate them accordingly and all other means are exhuasted, then pay them lor. If rental is $5k/mth, take it as selling house at $50k discount? Or raise house price by $50k to the buyer so you get back the money you compensate the tenants? :p
kingkong1984
25-07-11, 21:44
Tenants won't move, buyer won't buy, won't u think of others solutions than to put up with it?
One way is to pay tenants to move.
What if the tenants also play hardball to me? They are the ones living there and they dont seem to be the nicest people to deal with. In fact, they dont want to discuss anything except to say it is their rights to stay there and if I dont give them 10 months compensation, they will never move. And we do have offers but only for vacant. Not one interested with tenants as it is a house and not many investors for house.
We are also worried they will damage the house before they move. Then we cannot even sell it anymore. So, we're like being held ransom to whatever sum they like.
Serve them written notice, you can include in the notice that there is no penalty or notice period specified in the contract therefore you are giving them one month's notice according to common practice.
Then talk to them. Prepare how far, how long and how much money you are willing to to get them out. Explain to them that they do not have the right to demand 10 months payment in lieu. Try to undersand what their real problem is. Are they concerned about not being able to find another place to rent at the same price? Moving cost? Try offering some stuff such 1.5 months instead of 1 month to move out but phrase it as "IF i offer you this will it help?" instead of an outright offer.
Hint some threats indirectly if it doesnt work.
Read your contract carefully before serving notice. Maybe your contract is say a 2 year contract with no termination option.
As a backup, You may want to find eviction specialists to help evict them should they fail to move.
Serve them written notice, you can include in the notice that there is no penalty or notice period specified in the contract therefore you are giving them one month's notice according to common practice.
Then talk to them. Prepare how far, how long and how much money you are willing to to get them out. Explain to them that they do not have the right to demand 10 months payment in lieu. Try to undersand what their real problem is. Are they concerned about not being able to find another place to rent at the same price? Moving cost? Try offering some stuff such 1.5 months instead of 1 month to move out but phrase it as "IF i offer you this will it help?" instead of an outright offer.
Hint some threats indirectly if it doesnt work.
Read your contract carefully before serving notice. Maybe your contract is say a 2 year contract with no termination option.
As a backup, You may want to find eviction specialists to help evict them should they fail to move.
A standard tenancy contract doesn't allow for early termination from either party, except for diplomatic clause. Imagine if the tables are turned, if the tenant wants to end to contract 10 months before when the diplomatic clause kicks in. Will you agree to let them terminate, without asking for compensation? You might be the one asking for 10 months compensation....:scared-3:
A standard tenancy contract doesn't allow for early termination from either party, except for diplomatic clause. Imagine if the tables are turned, if the tenant wants to end to contract 10 months before when the diplomatic clause kicks in. Will you agree to let them terminate, without asking for compensation? You might be the one asking for 10 months compensation....:scared-3:
Can't assume that it is a "standard" agreement - whatever standard means. Legal rights will be as specified in the contract. How you feel about it is a seperate matter :D
hi Marc, you have got a lot of good advice out there.
though you may not be inclined to, try to put yourself into your tenants' shoes and imagine why they would be responding the way they are now... finding another place at the same budget, bringing forward the hassle of shifting out of a house, other plans gone awry, clash with original plans, etc. then look within yourself and ask why you may be upset or irritated with them, etc. try to let these out of your system first.
then arrange to talk with them. ask for their concerns, let them voice out everything, etc; then share your constraints, concerns, etc. it is good to emphatise with their concerns, etc. then try to work out a win win for all, even if you have to compensate them accordingly. can also lengthen the exercise date... but then you can only get your money back later.
try not to be too legal about the whole discussion, instead using that as a reference only. otherwise the legal aspects can also be used both ways.
good luck.
devilplate
25-07-11, 22:43
A standard tenancy contract doesn't allow for early termination from either party, except for diplomatic clause. Imagine if the tables are turned, if the tenant wants to end to contract 10 months before when the diplomatic clause kicks in. Will you agree to let them terminate, without asking for compensation? You might be the one asking for 10 months compensation....:scared-3:
Landlord disadvantage one lor....tenant jus pack bag n go....so u can only forfeit the 2mths deposit n pray no damages
U all can try to add in early termination clause n see any tenant willing to accept anot:p
Landlord disadvantage one lor....tenant jus pack bag n go....so u can only forfeit the 2mths deposit n pray no damages
U all can try to add in early termination clause n see any tenant willing to accept anot:p
early termination will apply to both parties. If rental drop.... tenant will terminate. If rental rise.... landlord will terminate.... who knows:beats-me-man:
devilplate
25-07-11, 22:50
early termination will apply to both parties. If rental drop.... tenant will terminate. If rental rise.... landlord will terminate.... who knows:beats-me-man:
Anyway u all can try la...mabe got newbie tenant tat duno may accept lor....hehe
I tried to add in the clause b4, 1yr lease...compensate 1mth deposit for early termination for both parties....no tenants willing wor:ashamed1:
Anyway u all can try la...mabe got newbie tenant tat duno may accept lor....hehe
I tried to add in the clause b4, 1yr lease...compensate 1mth deposit for early termination for both parties....no tenants willing wor:ashamed1:
actually I prefer the certainty of the standard contract. Not so easy for either party to back out. Allows me to plan my finances with more certainty....
Can bio another property:D .... but price too high now :tongue3: + 40% LTV :simmering:
If rental rise.... landlord will terminate.... who knows:beats-me-man:Landlord may not terminate for 2 simple reasons.
1. Have to pay another half month agent fee to find new tenants... that may well work out to be $2k plus repair the unit here and there before renting out may cost another $1k. On top of that, may have to compensate up to one or two months rental to evicted tenants which could easily amount to $4k (say for one month only). This may well set the landlord back by $7k. If rental rise, it must rise at least $600/mth working out to be from $4k to $4.6k (quite difficult to achieve) or more per month to make it logical to terminate, at least financially.
2. Go through the hassle of looking for new tenants and do the paper work again.
Then again if the current tenants are visitors from :hell-hath-no-fury: , then it probably make more sense to change them. LOL. :p
devilplate
25-07-11, 22:56
actually I prefer the certainty of the standard contract. Not so easy for either party to back out. Allows me to plan my finances with more certainty....
Can bio another property:D .... but price too high now :tongue3: + 40% LTV :simmering:
Tat time i cant decide whether to sell or rent....tats y wana add in the clause...ended up all the potential tenants run away after hearing tat additional clause...whahaha
Anyway, i tink tenants r smart la....dun add in oredi to their advantage....they wana terminate vy simple...pack n go tats it....aso forfeit 1mth wat....whaha
Serve them written notice, you can include in the notice that there is no penalty or notice period specified in the contract therefore you are giving them one month's notice according to common practice.
Then talk to them. Prepare how far, how long and how much money you are willing to to get them out. Explain to them that they do not have the right to demand 10 months payment in lieu. Try to undersand what their real problem is. Are they concerned about not being able to find another place to rent at the same price? Moving cost? Try offering some stuff such 1.5 months instead of 1 month to move out but phrase it as "IF i offer you this will it help?" instead of an outright offer.
Hint some threats indirectly if it doesnt work.
Read your contract carefully before serving notice. Maybe your contract is say a 2 year contract with no termination option.
As a backup, You may want to find eviction specialists to help evict them should they fail to move.
Is there such a thing as eviction specialists? I've never heard of them.
Where can you find them?
The tenants wont want to meet at all. Dont want any discussion. I heard from neighbours they have been creating a bit of a problem. Argued with other neighbours over carpark. and my old neighbour is selling her house now. Want to offer any alternative solutions also cannot since they wont even want to discuss. Just flat 10 months compensation or nothing.
Is there such a thing as eviction specialists? I've never heard of them.
Where can you find them?
The tenants wont want to meet at all. Dont want any discussion. I heard from neighbours they have been creating a bit of a problem. Argued with other neighbours over carpark. and my old neighbour is selling her house now. Want to offer any alternative solutions also cannot since they wont even want to discuss. Just flat 10 months compensation or nothing.It appeared that they've already disregarded any nice talk so you are actually already in that undesirable territory. So if they turn unfriendly, either you seek legal advise from a lawyer with your tenancy contract now or you just sell your house a higher price to recoup the losses in compensation for these tenants. Nobody likes to be chased out prematurely lah.. :spliff2:
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